Are All RVs Junk! Problems With Our Grand Design RV.
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2023
- Today I wanted to explore the idea I have heard that all RVs are junk. We have had our share of problems with RVs but are they all junk. I look at some of the problems we are having and look at a few new RVs at the dealership to see what the first look quality is like without digging in too deep. What do you think? Are all RVs Junk?
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Went to a big RV show this weekend and was generally appalled at the quality of 95% of what was on display (Hundreds of RVs, dozens of brands). A salesman happened to overhear me complaining about simple things that could have been done to improve fit and finish. The salesman came over to “reassure” me that the RV dealership would fix most of my complaints in their pre-delivery prep. He said they spend on average 14 hours of labor to get a unit ready for delivery. Holy cow, it takes the dealer 14 hours to fix the sloppy workmanship by the manufacturer?? I think he thought that was a positive selling point but I view it as an inditement of the manufacturer. Makes me wonder why the dealers didn’t prep their show units before hauling them to the expo to show the public. Seems like a really sketchy business to me.
For sure. If that were true they’d have inspected and corrected units as they are delivered, and they sure wouldn’t take a defective unit to the show.
Don't buy one *OR* build your own!
Imagine what you can’t see.
Exactly. If the things you can see are crappy, and the builders know you can see it and still do a poor job constructing it, just think how poorly the stuff you can't see is constructed.@@donziperk
Sure they will "fix" them. Meaning maybe cover them up until the bottom line is signed. Then good luck.
I accidentally landed a tour of a major RV trailer manufacturer with the plant manager some years ago. How I got this personal tour with the brass is another story, but once he realized I had no interest in his products, he became much more at ease and that comfort pervaded the 1 hour tour and corresponding coversation. Of the many things I learned from him one stood out. "These trailers expensive or otherwise are not made to live in. They will not stand up to thousands of miles, potholes, road construction, flexing over the axles and uneven loading. We have to strike a balance between durability and towability. They are made to get out a few weekends and a 2 week vacation every year for about 5 years in varying levels of the comforts of home." I took him at his word.
You are 100% correct. The RV are designed to no longer last 20 years of occasional use. Instead, 5 years of normal use 4 weeks out of the year. If that is the expereince people want, the best case is to rebuild/rehabitate a 60,70, or 80s trailer OR go Class C as the frame has to meet road standards.
As a retired Quality Assurance engineer I can tell you that there are VERY few companies that view QA as a ‘value-added’ component of manufacturing. QA finds mistakes and problems, which have to be fixed or reworked, which delays production, adds cost and decreases profits. In touring RV manufacturers you will most likely not see ANY in process inspections done by an INDEPENDENT QA organization, you’ll see workers check their own work and a QA inspection only done at the end of the build. I’d be willing to bet that RV companies that do have a QA department have it report to the production manager who’s job it is to build the units, not find problems with them. Ask any QA professional who wins unless the mistake is so large as to be a safety hazard risk that isn’t ‘acceptable’ or covered by insurance. I could go on and on.
Isn't value-added as a quality concept usually taken from the customer's perspective: what would they be willing to pay for? When this kind of poor quality still sells like hot-cakes may just mean that those of us who complain are a little more discerning, perhaps from being burned, and not from what general customers expect to pay for.
I was a manufacturing engineer, and I agree completely. If there was an actual QA/QC system in place, it would be very evident to your eyes and mine, and I see NO evidence whatsoever.
Example: My MH arrived without any lubricant in the differential - not a drop. Also a steering tire was ruined because the front end had never been aligned. That tells me that the incoming product (chassis) was not checked at all, and that's fundamental to QA.
With regard to workmanship, I found extremely dangerous and egregious errors. 12 AWG wires were run to outlets that do not accept 12 AWG stab connections, so they apparently sanded or filed the bare wire and forced it into the stab connection - breaking the outlet. Then they tried to glue it back together! It caused a fire in my CPAP compartment, so I had to replace them all, adding simple pigtails and WAGO connectors. This denies the entire concept of inspections, another fundamental concept of QA.
Now I'm hearing of frames breaking and being sold like that, and I am just disgusted.
This is utterly unacceptable, and we probably need government intervention to fix the problem.
Totally agree. I saw all the problems another U-Tuber was having with his high end Mobile Suites. We were having a couple small ones with our new tt as well. I mentioned that at this level most of us would gladly pay an extra few thousand to have them built to withstand the punishment they must take and have systems done correctly like we would do it ourselves. Don't cut corners. He agreed.
Agree. I worked in manufacturing as a cabinet room supervisor in a high end furniture manufactuing facility. Full QA program that had inspectors located in the cabinet room, finish room, and rub and pack. We addressed quality issues while the units were beign built. Every morning at 8 AM we had a QA meeting covering the issues. Those issues were documented daily. Our goal was less than 1% of units returmed from our customers. Our average was .5 to .7 percent from manufacturing defects. We did have some returns due to freight damage. QA assessments were done on packaging to rememdy that issue. IMHO RV manufacturers don't care.
@@herb7877😂 with the over priced there is no way someone wants to pay even more. The USA company’s have been price gouging sense 2020 and they know that they are. The pandemic was a joke and made them have an excuse to get rich faster.
We bought our 2024 Z3100 Brinkley for 89,000. It was expensive but we love it and it really does feel like a quality product that we will be able to keep for many years. We’ve had ours since August and, even living in it full-time, have only found one small problem-a missing light sensor in the pantry. I think the RV industry will have to up their game if more companies like Brinkley show the quality that is actually possible and customers start to demand a better.
I own Holiday RV Repair LLC in Georgia and every week I see things that blow my mind. We just completely removed both roof and ceiling from front to back on a class C built by Thor. The roof was sagging starting at the cab over section and going back about 6 feet. After we took the ceiling down, we found that the factory failed to put 3 of the roof bows (rafters) in therefore the roof had zero support for the roof as well as the ceiling.
These are the type of videos that need to be made by you big time RUclipsrs. You have the viewing capacity to change the RV industry and to inform potential buyers. If everybody would stop buying the cheap garbage they would be forced to spend more time on quality over quantity.
Thank you for this video !!
Totally agree 100 %
A few years ago, my wife and I bought a very tiny NuCamp and we’ve been considering replacing it for something bigger. After seeing this and other videos, I’m starting to realize the really high price per square foot we paid was worth it because we don’t have any of these issues.
Good video. One of the key challenges for RVs is the need to hit price points and also weight targets. This leads to cheaper and lighter materials being used, which don’t last as long. This doesn’t excuse the sloppy workmanship, but it’s just a fact that many customers want or need to have an RV under a certain weight and under a certain price point.
Rosie and I are on our 8th fifth wheel. We've been doing this a long time. We had a Reflection, and I am pretty handy and fixed a lot of things. We had good backing from Grand Design. We actually toured the facility and met Micah and all the top guys. Then we got a Solitude and started having frame and spring and shackle problems. At first we had help from Nate at G.D. Then Grand Design changed, and our support ended. They put us off and finally just stopped responding. Well guess what? Micah and Nate along with many others had left (after G.D. sold to Winnebago) and started a company called Brinkley. We finally pulled the trigger on a Z3100. What a game changer. Not only in Quality but support. We have been to Alaska and back and will head to Yuma, Az. soon. H rated tires (cooper) Heavy duty shackles and springs. The inside is quality and modern. Solar on and ready to go plus I added (with guidance from Brinkley) a second 370-watt panel, a 3,000-watt inverter and 4 Battleborn Batteries. We went down from Wisconsin to Indiana and had the red-carpet treatment at their beautiful facility. I do expect to have to fix things over time, but I can deal with that as long as I have support. This is Burlington Bill busking from the road and here on You Tube.
Glad you and Rosie Palm are doing good.
At least you don't have to worry about the motor or transmission going out. 😊
We are planning on purchasing a Z3100 next year and can’t wait. Great to read about your experience.
I have 3 Maxxair fans that all started squeaking. I took them apart as you'll see on RUclips, cleaned them out, and had short term success. I found the bearings are the same size as sealed skateboard bearings... It's pretty easy to take the motor apart, clean it, replace the bearings, and they are quiet again. I haven't seen anyone else mention it, so... new pro tip
Happy RVing
Good job of scratching the surface Jared. We are not new to the RV world, having owned what is now our third fifth wheel since 2015. Our first was a used unit which needed regular fixes during every trip. When we retired we purchased (after much research and evaluation) the Vanleigh Beacon. Unfortunately it was a 2022 model (read covid and shutdown news) and never was right. We went to the Tiffin Service Center and after 5 weeks of repairs and a repair valuation of $34K (warranty, nothing out of pocket) I traded the lemon in on a 2023 Grand Design Solitude 310gk. This unit, built in March of 2023, came with 660 watts of solar, 50 watt mppt controller and 2k inverter. I added my lithium batteries and generator. This is a better built unit than my Vanleigh ever was. I have 5k miles on it since picking it up (we are full time) and have not had to do anything but level our 12 volt fridge. I did clean up my electrical wiring (strictly for my mild OCD) but nothing leaks and none of my cabinets are falling apart. This being said, I totally agree that the manufacturers need to step up their game. Just build to quality and QA your product. There is no reason for a dealership to be responsible to repair shoddy work, especially since most dealership techs probably don't even know the product, just the basic systems, and even then, there is so much new tech coming out that many of the technicians don't even know how to fix it.
I would get rid of the Grand Design as soon as you can. Sell it. The units have SERIOUS frame flaws. There are tons of videos on RUclips from current and former Grand Design owners. I am not kidding. Don’t wait. Get rid of it.
One of our RV's had the same annoying slide trim. Turns out, it was that way because there were components behind that off center trim that were a lot easier to access by just removing it instead of taking the entire 11 feet of trim off ( Which eventually fell off by itself while going down the road )
I got an Escape 5.0 TA back in 2019. It's a lot smaller than what most people use. Still, the quality is such that I go out of my way to show folks what the standard of quality should be. The wiring, especially the electrical distribution panel was perfection that I have never seen before. I might add, I've taken this trailer into places you wouldn't think about going in other RVs. I have to give credit to the Escape workers in Chilliwack, BC for being responsible for this kind of quality.
Same experience with my Escape 21NE.
Escape 19’ owner here. Our experience has been the same as yours, we have over 30 Thousand miles on our 2018 and have only needed to replace tires 😊
I was really interested in the 5.0 TA, but a near 2 year wait was too much for us. They could also stand to update their interiors, but overall a very nice product and idea.
Great video Jared. We are in our second year of owning an RV and if I wasn’t a DIY type of person, I would definitely be discouraged with all the issues. If I was to rely on the dealer to fix everything, our RV would probably be there more than at a campsite. Keep up the good work!
I agree you must have mechanical skills to own an RV period, its now stop repairs. I get this as we put some RV to a higher stress factor on these roads at these weights. I seem to find a screw on the floor every time I travel. So if your not handy you RIG is in the shop. Dealership don't explain these things to first time buyers.
Every time I start watching videos about the build quality of modern campers and RVs, it makes me want to keep and (try) to fix my 1974 camper... Nearly 50 years old and it has less issues than some new RVs have from the factory...
I have an Airstream for 20 years and it is still as good as the day I bought it with the exception of scratches
If not your best, one of your best. Thanks for explaining, demonstrating, and documenting. We're not in the Brinkley category, but the suggestions on how to retrofit a lower-product works.
Finally, someone (you, Jared) called out the RV industry on their products. Thank you! In my experience, it seems that the manufacturers push out the products and make the dealerships repair their flaws, but only if the buyer finds the faults. On my RV, first time new purchase, I was amazed at the lack of grease in the wheel bearings found at the first service. I'm surprised that they lasted 500 miles. I'm glad I didn't go farther that first year.
Jared great perspective and true! They’re not all junk. I think some things are frustrating but I try to focus on the things I love about it and the cool things we see in it!
Great video Jared. We have a small notebook in our 5th wheel, every time we go on a trip and find something that needs repaired or that we want changed , it gets written in the notebook. Next on my list is to change the 2- 8 3/4" steps to 3- 6 1/2" steps and possibly add a handrail somehow. We're both having issues with our knees and those steps need to be changed. I think it just comes with the territory to keep things adjusted or repaired when needed.
Great videos! Well planned and thought out. Kudos!
Was watching this video from a Brinkley at a camp ground, made me look around and everything you pointed out as good about the Brinkley looked exactly the same in mine.
I got shivers when I saw the spring support bracket welded to the frame horizontally at the 2:47 mark. I had a toy hauler with the same welded supports and those welds caused a weaking of the frame and the flexing back and forth caused massive cracks to radiate out from where the bracket is welded to the middle of the frame. Lippert told me this was a known issue and wanted me to drive it 2000 miles to their factory for a free repair. I had a local truck trailer repair shop do the repairs. So surprised they are still using this method instead of welding a bracket from top to bottom.
I had a 31 class C funmover. They welded the body onto the frame crooked. One side was 2 inches lower than the other
My husband is a DYI guy, thank goodness. We've only had to have our Grand Design in for a slide repair, which was confirmed to be a bad install at the factory. Our RV was unavailable to us for 3 months. Grand Design covered the repair and extended the warranty on the slide. All other minor repairs we do ourselves. We had to add plastic corner protectors because of peeling wallpaper. The heat in AZ takes its toll. We replaced the TV already and some of the doors are warping from heat. It's an RV. We get it. At least Grand Design has been incredibly responsive. GD sent all new cabinet handles free to protect against cuts from sharp edges. Overall, I like Grand Design, and I'm still in love with our RV. I don't think I'd want to live in it full time. Love your content.
Your one comment was spot on. You definitely have to become a DIYer to own and maintain an rv. I’m glad I have videos like yours to watch!
Our family purchased a brand new Winnebago last year. Like you said, it’s made with good parts, but poorly assembled. We’ve had over 40 individually repaired issues, and some still aren’t fixed 13 months later.
The worst being a recall on the lippert slide system leaving us 2000 miles from home, stuck in Las Vegas with the slide half out.
I feel bad for the dealership because they get the brunt of our frustration, and have been really good trying to take care of us. Unfortunately fixing things aren’t always easy.
Great fair video again, Jared. Your balanced logical approach to most everything RV is spot on.
Thank you!
We have had two Northwood Arctic Fox 5th wheels and the quality has been great with both. They are not typically on the east coast much because they are made in the Pacific Northwest, but I think the craftsmanship and materials are good.
A very fair assessment. Great word, "See a problem, fix it, move on." We like, not love our Layton toy hauler. It has ok material, ok workmanship. Some design flaws.
You must be a DIYer. Most people aren't. Therefore when something breaks, it stays broke for a long time. And compounds.
After 3 previous RVs, I was hopeful that moving up to an Airstream would finally get us into a quality-built trailer, but I was wrong. While the exterior and interior designs appointments are beautiful, I keep running into things that just make you scratch your head - like the electrical system - which appears to have been installed by elementary school kids. Of the four RVs we have owned, the Airstream by far has had the longest warranty punch list of all of them.
Surprised the RV industry hasn't been shut down for child labor - the proof is in the wiring of the coach. Air Stream might have to purchase an older unit from the 1950's to get a good one. 😀
Hmm. Also assumed Airstream was a 100% throughout..
So interesting. Thank you for sharing this insider perspective.
Your comments are great. Problem is only a tiny fraction of people who buy RV’s are capable of fixing everything that breaks or is of poor quality.
Valuable information Jared. You bring up a great point, right in the middle of the road: balance. Current rv manufacturers need to get a little better, while there will always be a market for more expensive units for those willing to pay.
👍🏼
After just over a year full timing in my Grand Design Imagine XLS I'm happy to say the only major issue was the sliding bedroom door and it's track falling off 2 or so months into owning the camper. The 2x4 that the track was screwed to was just screwed to the thin plywood ceiling with 3 screws. They didn't design it such that one of the roof joists was overhead to screw to (which they easily could have) and the people putting it together didn't screw it to the 2x4 in the wall behind it. A few long screws to attach it to that 2x4 and it hasn't fallen down since.
Major issues aside there have definitely been a lot of fit and finish or smaller/potential future issues I've run into, mostly just from the rushed construction. Jagged holes and errant screws poking wires, wiring in the underbelly just resting on the sharp frame and rubbing through, lots of gaps and some peeling trim, but thankfully nothing that wasn't pretty easy to fix (okay, the underbelly wiring was a pain but I did that while installing tank heaters, which was an even bigger pain, so I didn't have to drop the underbelly just to fix that.
From talking to people in the industry it seems like a lot of it is down to the rushed construction, with many to most of the people assembling RVs now being rushed contractors instead of regular employees. Companies love contract labor because they don't have to pay for benefits and they can do things like pay per unit that rolls off the line instead of by the hour. Corporate usually loves it because if there's any delay the workers eat the cost, not to mention, when pay and bonuses are tied to how many units are rolling off the line it puts a lot of pressure on people to rush things to try and get even 1 more rig out the door each day. As one person put it, the reason new RVs have so much sawdust is because, when you're paid per unit and not per hour, you don't get paid to vacuum up as you work. Perhaps even worse, or better for corporate, this let's them dodge the blame for any issues by blaming greedy contractors when in reality they're just trying to make a decent wage while navigating all the obstacles corporate has put in their way.
At this rate, soon enough we're going to need a whole industry of techs and repairmen, of which there already aren't enough, just to fix all the issues with new units before their new owners can actually start using them.
I have a 2005 Holiday Rambler 5th wheel all aluminum outside powder coat paint still looks great , replaced roof 5 years ago ,frame rated 10,000 lbs .over weigh,still looking good ,ready To go anywhere!
I prefer the aluminum siding over the new mess.
Glad you are happy overall with your Reflection. Your observation that you can pay a huge amount more for a slight improvement in quality seems fitting as well.
We purchased a small RV (Our first) a few years back and with all things considered, we were novice first time RV'ers etc. and with time I realized these things are truly made cheap. Today I consider almost all your run of the mill RVs just so so, and ours would be in the above (ever so slightly) average quality (Cruiser RV). I think we share the same approach and that is you buy an RV, you live and deal with it. Not always pleasant but easy to fix. The most important of all is regular maintenance and proper end of season storage.
Great little video, easy to follow and appreciated.
I always enjoy your videos. Honest and fair.
I took a weekend and removed, tightened all screws, glued the bases in and restapled where needed and all my drawers work great. We have had some mouldings that we had to restapled and that is almost to be expected in an on the road travel trailer.
The problem is that so many want the extras, but don't want to pay a lot more so something has to give. Plus the more stuff that goes in the more it weighs, so lighter, cheaper stuff has to go in. Even high end diesel pushers have to watch the weight.
On our solitude, we’ve been reattaching trim constantly. The wall in the centre bedroom has become detached twice. These happen because we’re living in a box on wheels. Not much of a surprise. After three years, we’re still happy with it.
Keep an eye on the wall separation from the floor. Some trailers don't have actual support under the wall. The cabinets provide most of the support and the outer edge of the floor can sag, pulling the wall further away from the floor. Coachmen trailers have outriggers supporting the walls. That's why I bought mine.
We're on our 3rd rv. In 2021 we purchased a new 2022 5th wheel. In a very short time, we had to take it in to replace and fix 20 different issues.
My wife always said these aew put together with popcycle sticks and glue. And there are times She is right . Workmanship is fair at best and
even the dealership staff that worked on it sometimes you wonder if they care at all.
I have a small 16' hybrid camper. I have had to do so many improvements. I have added drawer glides and made many upgrades. We are constantly fixing things and making the camper more livable. We don't live in our camper, but we like taking long camping trips. I need the camper to "work." We have spent 4 years changing little things: hinges on the dinette benches for easy access to storage, flipping a medicine cabinet to make it reachable, changing the bathroom sink and faucet to make it useable, etc. I'm glad I know how to make all the changes. I just wish the quality was a lot better. We are fighting a leak in the front tent-bed. I am finding water damage and will need to address that soon. The bed seems to have been installed crooked. I can see gaps on one side where the other side is tight. I have made about 60 upgrades and have about 12 more on the list. Thanks for sharing your video blog. Lots for me to learn.
Great video as usual. I have been full timing in an Outdoors RV 33' 26RLS Glacier Peak for 2+ years. I would agree that if you are a diligent DIY'er you can handle 99% of the issues that you will experience. If you have no DIY skills and depend on a dealer to service everything I think your RV experience will be a poor one. If you don't routinely get on top of, underneath and pay attention to whats going on with your plumbing/electrical systems and learn about and take of things before they become major issues, yes you will think these are junk. Some manufacturers are better than others, that is a fact. I am fortunate to have a solid RV, knock on wood, but I spend time looking at and maintaining, re-sealing, and overall preventative maintenance.
I've been eyeballing an Outdoor RV. The dealer said the interest rates are at 8.99%, is this normal? i have A+ credit. They are expensive, but per all the reviews they are worth it. One of the very few RV's id even consider.
I agree with your outcome 💯 and would like to add to it. One of the things you have to understand about traveling down the road is that every time you head out on the highway your Rv is dealing with a constant earthquake so things are happening that you couldn't imagine.
You have some very valid points. I do like our little GD Imagine XLS 17MKE - I can live with the stupid little problems.
Great video, thank you for posting! We have a 2019 Coachmen Catalina. We have had so many issues with this travel trailer that I can't begin to even list all of the problems. Luckily, I'm pretty handy and fixed the majority of them. Our travel trailer is almost paid off and I think once it is, I may unload it. As a matter of fact, I may quit RVing altogether. When I look at the payments, insurance, registration and maintenance, it's really not worth it. I could stay in a 5 star hotel while traveling and have money left over. The quality of the RV's they are producing now are literally junk. Anyway, again thank you for posting!!
I’ve never RV’ed myself but all your listed reasons related to costs prevents me from going that route
I get a few precious weeks to unwind on vacation. my wife and I prefer to drop money on a nice hotel or something and not worry about “ fixing things “. Good luck in life 😊
@@edwinrodeo I hear ya, bro. I don't blame you. If I had to do it all over, I would have not bought one. They are money pits.
When you have an RV you have 2 hobbies, using the RV and working on the RV. If you don't enjoy working on it or don't DIY or have to take it to someone to have things like you pointed out fixed you're not going to have warm feelings. It's never done.
I like seeing what breaks and how you fix it
I agree that a RV owner needs to be a good handyman. I've had to fix/modify a bunch of stuff on our 32' Forester Class C the first year. Thanks!
100% Agree with you.
Maybe do a video changing the draw slides?
Thank you so much for putting this out there. I Could not agree more. So sad that these rigs have been done so cheaply. It’s just wrong. Consumers should rise up and say NO more.
Recreational Vehicle is a misnomer for the units that you feature. These big things with multiple slides are mobile homes that people live in and can transport personally. They are not designed or constructed of the durability required for recreational travel. The wiring, plumbing and appliances are not ABYC yacht standard, or even residential standard. You get what you pay for, and the market obviously does not support the prices that quality travel trailers would command. I’ve towed over 150, 000 miles in the two Airstreams that we have owned, and would purchase no other travel trailer. They are good, not perfect travel trailers, and I would not consider them to be ‘houses’. They are expensive compared to the ‘junk’ that you highlight. For the length, they are smaller, but have a durable structure not compromised by slide outs. I wish that better quality was available, as I prefer a travel trailer for our recreational travel.
We were very fortunate to buy our first RV from small family owned dealer. They really did a thorough PDI to insure there were no significant issues and spent four hours with us operating every system. The only major issue we had during the six years we owned it was the shower drain separating from the line to the gray tank. It was fixed under warranty by an independent local repair shop that the manufacturer approved so we didn't have to drive three hours back to the dealer.
By the time we purchased our second RV we were very well educated and spend three hours running every system, opening every door and draw, testing every electrical outlet, thermometer to measure the air temperature at every A/C outlet, television, CD player, microwave (making hot water in it), slide, awning, etc., etc. around, under and on top of the RV. I told them a day ahead of time the fridge needed to be turned on well before we got thete. After the three years we had to replace the A/C unit and tack down some molding that came loose.
A few simple things can be done to prevent having issues when you drive off the lot. Don't be in a rush. If you don't feel up to doing a thorough inspection pay an inspector to do it. Have the dealer demonstrate how to close the awning, get the slide in and out, lower the front jack if the motor fails, video the walk through.
There's good and bad in ALMOST all RVs, but room for improvement in ALL...Enjoyed the video. I, too, seem to be constantly fixing (or improving) something in our RV. It's a 2013 Winnebago Class A pusher, so some maintenance/upkeep is expected, but it doesn't matter what type or class of RV you have. Learn to love it or spend a miserable time in it...
You were very kind to the industry ! I think they will continue to build junk even if it’s over 100 k . If you consider 400 k class A units have problems! It’s sad really for what people are spending! 😬
Great video. What's unfortunete is, not ALL RV's are junk, just MOST! We were sold Grand Design was high quality yet, in 1 year of ownership, we've fixed bad leaks, our doors get stuck, storage doors don't stay closed and the list goes on - it's absolute junk. Thank God we enjoy RVing - I can only imagine what some first timers that don't know what to expect.
Excellent video. We are long time RVers. We’ve owned 8 over a 35 year period. I’ve seen a difference in quality between brands and as we consumers wanted more accessories. The more in them , the more to go wrong. We travel with friends who own different brands of trailers as well. I think we realize all RV’s will have issues but I truly believe there are some brands better than others.
But salespeople and dealers lie. Not all but many. And buyers don’t know what to look for and where problem areas are.
There are some reputable dealers who will sell you want you need, not what they are trying to move.
We purchased a new Winnebago class A gas coach 30 months ago. 38,000 miles later we are still very happy with it. Did things come loose, or break, yes. Most interior issues ( a piece of molding, drawer latch, microwave molding ) were minor and as person who’s handy, not an issue for me. I live in the desert and 115 degree summers are common which puts a world of hurt on the RV.
Most of our issues have been with supplied parts. Water pump, step motor, propane regulator, etc.
We wish the industry was better regulated.
My advice is get an RV inspection prior to purchase, get lots of information before purchasing and watch Jarod’s videos for good tips.
Thank you again
Like owning a boat you have to love the experience to live with it otherwise it will drive you crazy. You have to love camping which may make it possible to overlook most of these issues which personally would drive me over the edge. If I have to worry about fixing issues or have an issue staring me in the face for my supposed vacation I had might as well just stay at work for the week. Again, you had better love the experience.
My first travel trailer was absolutely the best. It was a Fleetwood Prowler. The fit and finish was outstanding. Solid cabinetry. Everything worked as it should. A Lance couldn't match this trailer. The interior was a copy of the Airstream layout. Center twin beds and full rear bath. The units i bought after were junk compared to the Prowler. I don't know what to buy for my next one. I prefer a excellent pre-owned unit to avoid the immediate depreciation.
I think your assessment is very honest and consistent with what I have seen in looking at several different manufacturers. Yes, some are certainly built better than others but even if the perfect RV exists, drag it down the highway for a few hundred miles and there will be opportunities to work on it. Personally, I have an RV designed for Overlanding. Not saying it is built better but it does have superior suspension to the standard RV's. It is my belief that this will help things to move around less while traveling which should mean less opportunities to fix stuff. In any RV, it is my opinion that if you are not a DIY or handy person and you are not willing to learn, that you should avoid all brands of RV's.
My father said RVs are made of balsa-elastic-bubble-plastic and I should just expect to be constantly working on mine to keep it operating right. He was absolutely right. I spend a fair amount of time replacing junk parts with quality parts.
I can identify with much of what is said. We have had three travel trailers. The first one worked o.k. for a number of years and then things started to fail. When the audio system took a powder due to poor wiring that was the last straw. I traded it on a slightly higher end unit and it actually worked pretty well. A few issues, but not as many as I expected. Last summer bought my "last RV", a Rockwood Mini-Lite 2509S. Our 10 year old needed his own space. After four months of ownership I still marvel at the quality of the design, materials, and workmanship. The cabinetry rivals our custom cabinetry in our home, for example. Excellent! No issues whatsoever. I upgraded the mattress on the murphy bed and the TV and soundbar, which I would have done anyway. Hats off to Forest River and Rockwood. Impressive.
I agree. my 2021 RV has been trouble free minus some loose trim and minor issues. I read online forums about quality "post covid" and I think that might contribute to the issue. But I do agree you have to have some DIY skills to own a RV.
I have a 2008 sunny brook Bristol bay 3420 bh. I’ve owned it since 09 and I glad to say that till this year never had a problem. Yes I’ve replaced the roof cause it was aging and had a small hole from a branch. Rv roof repair did the work and glad I had them do the job best thing I ever did. It Never leaked no water damage ever cabinets are strong and the outside still looks new. We use it seasonally every summer without a hiccup. End of this year I had to replace the water heater element and also did the thermostats on it. Knock on wood it’s been a great unit. But as for todays Rv’s there junk.
I am a Brinkley fan. Also having spent years in the QA business, not only did I find problems and potential problems, I was able to put in design changes to ensure the problems didn't happen again and they were always implemented. I read some of the other QA folks said below. They are right insofar as some of the issues found with some lesser quality-oriented manufacturers is that they just don't care, they want the sale.
My son, who works for an RV dealership, freaked out when I bought a Destination Trailer to live in part-time (for now) as a snowbird. He has the same attitude about RV builders as do you.
The drawer guides are a must-fix but the slide trim that is off-center does not.... as one is function and the other is form. However, it would bug me too. You made some good points. As I said, I am a Brinkley fan and proud of it.
I am a NRVIA certified Inspector and I recently looked at some 5th wheels by a new manufacturer which is mentioned and every one of them had missing sealant on the vertical trim where the sidewalls meet the front cap. Some of the trim was already buckled as well.
If you're buying new regardless of price, manufacturer or type, get it inspected by a 3rd party !
Brinkley is definitely shaking some things up in the RV industry. Hopefully the improved competition ends up floating all boats in a positive direction.
I agree .. I've looked over a few Brinkley's and from what my eyes see they are hands down the most impressive unit I've seen if all higher end brands. Not to say they won't have their issues too but my judgement is that they are out together with wayyyyyyy more pride and craftsmanship than others. And I'm a grand design owner and disappointed in the craftsmanship and quality of Grand design.. I've been across the country and stopped at numerous dealerships and looked over many many units so I'm no greenhorn😉😉
Grand Design is building them better and their customer service is good. We'll stick with them for now. Out problem has been dealer service dept and techs that can't figure out the digital controls.
@@Dive-Bar-Casanova I'm in no way out to attack anyone's judgement or opinion but have you recently looked at, inspected, the grand design models? From low end to the high end solitude? I have within the last month seen many throughout the course of a 10,000 Mile road trip from coast to coast. I myself an not slightly impressed with build quality. It shows all you have to do is look.... Replacing quality workmanship with (bling) that anyone can go to Walmart and upgrade it's insane!!!! I'm sorry but that's my 2 cents and I'd love to buy a quality 5th wheel to full time in but my hopes of high quality are slim unless I build it myself and frankly I have not the time for that kind of build
Happy camping and I do wish the best for you're rig. Safe travels😉😉. Sorry for the rant lol
@@livewire2474 We've owned two Grand Design units since 2014. We just bought our third - a 2024 Solitude. We've put about 1,000 miles on it so far, and it's been flawless! We're thrilled so far, and the quality seems to be much better than our 2014 and 2017 Reflection models.
A few points.... The plastic exterior trim is cracking because those piece have a lip with an unsupported void on the back. This results in screw depressions and eventual stress fractures. To prevent cracking remove the trim and add support via glued on washers. Be sure to add butyl where screw go into insulated or enclosed walls. The fan squeal is a general annual maintenance item. The motor needs cleaning and lubricated. Interior trim pops off over time for a number of reason. Oftentimes it's due to being too long or under stress (wall bowing). Other reasons include slide box shifting out of square and high temperature/humidity swings. Anyone full-timing should have an air compressor and brad nailer/staple gun.
Seasonal use units, like yours GD, are not going to have as robust construction, materials, or components as full-time use units. The draw glides, overall unit rigidity, and slide floors on your unit are designed for seasonal use.
As a whole you do get what you pay for in terms of construction quality, finish work, materials, and components. That said for the most part many components on a full-time unit are the same as on seasonal units. The difference being one replaces components more often on a full-time unit. Furnace, AC, and other motors all fail in a three to five year period because they were never designed to be used full-time. These DC motors have a loosely set running time life cycle. When possible upgrade to a higher output option. Higher output equals less running time. Thus more time between motor replacements and other repairs. With most components being used across the industry those using their units full-time will be repairing and replacing components more frequently.
Those who purchased their RV during the pandemic should expect a lot more issues. Both supply chain issues and staffing issues lead to a lot of compromises by the industry to keep units flowing onto dealer lots. Cheaper or counterfeit materials, components, and appliances were sourced as manufacturers of RV and manufacturers of component sourced whatever they could to build units and components. New hires were simply thrown on the line with little to no training or oversight. Quality control was essentially left to the dealerships. Dealerships, dealing with their own pandemic issues, overlooked a lot of issues. It didn't seem to matter how bad a unit was.....it sold regardless.
Now......the industry is suffering a slump. Once again cost cutting is going to affect quality. They'll do their best to slap on as much lipstick as possible to distract buyers from quality issues. We will see more brands being discontinued, bankruptcies, companies splitting (to kill off under performing models via bankruptcy), rebranding, and acquisitions as the industry resets to lower demand. The brand names of poor quality entry level units with bad reputations will change, but the units are essentially the same.
This is why I watch you regularly Jared! The things that bug you bug me too about quality and craftsmanship. That comment about centering the decorative badge of the slide border is a great example. I can't tell you how many things in our GD are just slapped into place crooked or un-centered when just a little bit of care would have made the forgiving other poor quality a little easier to stomach. Light switches that follow the order of the lights in the rig would be another. Put the switches in some kind of logical order and not willy-nilly. Good content, as usual. I won't be surprised when some enterprise snaps you up for the quality content creator you've become.
We’ve owned 6 different rigs over the years and bought our Brinkley in late July after terrible problems with a much ‘fancier’ 5th wheel. Brinkley is hands down got most things right. They addressed many of the issues most RV’r’s have. The only comment I’d make, is the price comparison of the Brinkley to other RV’s is list price comparison. GD only allows RV’s to be sold at list, while Brinkley list can be negotiated with your dealer. We did well on our purchase and was much closer to GD’s price than the list price difference.
Wow! Our rig is a 2008 Forrest River. No issues except normal wear.
I recently purchased a Brinkley Z3100 in August. I just finished living in it for two months, traveled 7,000 miles. My favorite saying is "one test is worth a thousand expert opinions" and that extended trip showed the quality we have with the Brinkley -we had no issues with the rig so far. I don't want to sound like Brinkley walks on water -this is my fifth RV and I had some quality other brands before Brinkley (Outdoors RV, Fleetwood). What Brinkley is doing outside of their modern design and amenities is they are obsessed with quality and holding their suppliers accountable. I did a factory order and Brinkley caught one of their suppliers sending a major part that did not comply with their Brinkley standards that affected my build. Getting it right before my rig shipped delayed my pickup date but I was so glad they caught the issue with their QC process before it shipped to the dealer. Brinkley was honest and transparent with me about the issue too. Everyone is using a lot of the same suppliers. Is the manufacturer holding the supplier accountable for quality too? That's a big part.
I’m so glad I bought my 2000 Monaco dynasty back in 2017. It is now about to be 24 years old and I would still match it up to any RV out there. I bought it for $45,000 and have put another 35,000 in it upgrading and repairing things because I do full time in it. That still puts me way below a lot of the very substandard RVs being sold now in price. Thanks for the video Jared.
Just my two cent but every 5th wheel we looked at buying this year was already having trim unglued, electrical issues, plumbing issues, and even had two different brands have the slides not go out because of electrical issues. Campers are not worth what they cost. The only way to get good worksmans ship and quality parts is to spend over $100k, or be prepared for your camper to be at the dealer for extended periods the first year for warranty work.
I was a previous owner of an American Star by New Mar back in 1995. I full timed in that RV for 10 years. Everything worked as advertised. I just thought that was how all RV's were made. Fast-forward to 2020, I purchased a 2020 VanLeigh 5th wheel. In the first two years I endured 18 discrepancies, 12 of which were in the first year. 8 of the discrepancies were water leaks, a shorted wire in the walls for the galley fan just to name a few. When I opened the service bay to fix the water leaks I was met with 1/2 to 1' piles of wet sawdust everywhere in the utility area. The VanLeigh was 80K and the American Star was 22K. I long for the days of the American Star.
One of your better videos because its an import question to ask. I liked how you look under the covers to see how work was done like wiring. It does speak to the design build of the rig. But it also speaks to the price. I bought a cheaper Class A and while it was a good purchase for the price it had a much cheaper build. The master bed was all engineered wood so it wasn't solid. The mattress lifters actually pulled it apart after a while. But that said my bed had home doesn't require lifters and does do 65-70 down the road on a regular bases either. So being able to do a little DIY is kinda a requirement on a moving house. If not you will be in the shop all the time.
I had a new 2019 Grand Design Reflection and it was a dude. The ceiling fan cover and furnace squirrel cage blew up because they were made of plastic. The tandem axle alignment was cocked causing uneven tire wear. There were granular pebbles poking a hole through the TPO membrane leading to water damage on the roof. They used a 1/2” floor on the kitchen floor in lieu of the 3/4” spec for convenience. This resulted in the kitchen floor edge trim scraping a hole on the main floor laminate. Worst of all, customer service basically told me to take a hike. Unloading the rig was the best part of the whole experience.
Our 2017 was a great unit, current experience with just-purchased 2024, not so much. Their quality really suffered after they sold to Winnebago. The original owners are some of the ones who started Brinkley.....
@@fredgross2781 seems like Winnebago ran Grand Design into the ground. Their focus on short term profits ruined the brand. Never Grand Design.
Yup you are spot on. A shoe box on a cheap frame that depreciates like crazy.
Bought a new 5th wheel RV
2022 Astoria , realized no outlets in the kitchen area
I wasn’t happy about that
Once I got where I was going to park it . Had to buy a Extension cord with about 10 plug in on it so I had some to use
I am so thankful that we sold pur RV and no longer have to worry about what was going to tear up or break next. I will never own another RV.
Unfortunately it's about money. One of my biggest complaints is insulation. The insulation in the ceiling is horrible. The roof material is cheap. It would be interesting to find the actual cost, parts, and labor to see how much profit is made. The ac and heat system are inefficient and poorly designed. We have an older Everest better quality, but I still have to fix stuff all the time. Keep up the GOOD videos.
Agree the Rv industry needs to step up the small details that can turn to big problems later. And customer support. That seems to have gone down hill a lot, but Covid hurt everyone in that sector. One thing I always tell people is stay away from entry level units. They are as cheap and flimsy as they get. A quality used unit would be better than the new ultra lights or base model units.
And a transferable warranty on a less than 3 month old unit should be standard. Had no idea nothing transfers, and I mean nothing. This was for my new Jayco. Which so far is solid. Been happy so far. 🤞🏼
I RVed for 20 years, starting from an old used 1972 Dutchman with no bathroom, that was actually rock solid, to a 2012 Outback. And I quit due to I got tired of fixing things over and over again because of them being cheap. Instead of screws, lets use glue or staples. That caused water damage for us and it was just sitting over winter Every penny saved for them is money that costs the owner down the line. I live having free time back, and not wasting an entire weekend getting the thing ready for winter to park it, and the reverse in the spring to get it ready for summer. I like not having to pay insurance for something that sits unused 6 months a year or more. Live in Canada, and we dont winter camp. I like not worrying about mice getting into it, or every hail storm that comes by will my trailer be ruined. Its been 5 years now, and will never go back
This video perfectly explains why Brinkley and Airstream can demand such a premium for their products. I see people still camping in Airstreams from the 1950's and 1960's and their used models still command a hefty price in the market.
You Nailed to a T. Our RV 2 Yrs old & had to already change a piece of floor due to roof malfunction from the factory,
Our KZ (that very few people rate or talk about) did go back for frame flex, repaired and then I put MoRryde IS and disk brakes on and now Great, 382MBQ
I have a kz sportster and it seems fairly decent
As a couple who is actively preparing to buy our next toy hauler this winter, GD has been all but removed from our list of choices. GD frame issue videos are becoming a dime a dozen.
I purchased a smaller Grand Design travel trailer this year. I was approached by another customer on the lot who asked me what year trailer i bought. He told me to stay away from any trailers built during Covid pandemic due to the huge demand there was to meet customer demands. Quality control was bad due to pushing out product to fast and the lack of journeyman builders.
Great video! thanks again!
I agree - lesser quality products does not excuse poor workmanship. The RV industry is very similar to the airlines - they take your money then not take responsibility for any problems and not deliver any customer service. They have to do better in the factory and provide much better dealer support so that RV owners are not held captive by needing to go back to their dealer to get any kind of service. These units are for traveling around the country so we should be able to get Good, Timely service all over North America with no excuses.
There is no "perfect" RV. RVs are a house designed to move down the road at 70 mph. Components come from many sources and cost, strength, flexibility and weight are all factors that affect the final quality. I agree that there is a big difference in workmanship that can always be improved. If you own a RV, you had better be able to perform at least some of the required maintenance. I liked this video.
My wife and I bought a grand design 297rsts this summer and we thought that it was going to be one of the upper-tier RVs but all the videos from these people I'm starting to realize we're not much better than the other companies that we thought we were better than
I have a 2023 GD Reflection 337RLS and it's my second GD trailer. Knowing that it's not a Brinkley but knowing that I have to "tune things up" is just part of owning a trailer. I guess I'm lucky that I'm a DIYer so knowing I need to repair stuff just works out for me. I have the understanding that every time I take the trailer out, I'll be repairing something. Am I dissatisfied with the workmanship? YES! Do I think GD could do a better job on the fabrication, YES! There are definitely some items that I have fixed that was due to poor workmanship and GD needs to work on their quality control. However, I have accepted the reality and I move on so I enjoy the adventures we get to do! As always, great video!!!
Thank you we have a Grand Design also and agree with what you said , there is room for improvement . But we do like our R V .
We had a couple of GDs in our group. After repairing the shoddy workmanship and poor designed items, we refer to them as "Not So Grand Design." The build the same junk the cheap brands do, they just offer a few different floor plan elements and color schemes and charge a premium price.
Thanks, I was planning on getting into RV'ing but not anymore. ,
I am not a DIY person, and have actually improved my limited skills by watching RUclips (including your channel and 13 Adventures) and spending time in our RV. We bought an Airstream because that was the only trailer I had ever heard about. I did no research and didn’t even understand the difference between different models of Airstream. We take one long trip (2 months) a year and 3-5 trips of about a week. The only truck I could find in 2021 was way bigger than we needed and the first vehicle I have ever bought for sticker price. Our 2022 25’ Flying Cloud wasn’t cheap but reasonable given the market ($90,200 including tax and 2 AC’s and awning package). Our only problems have been very minor. I know from RUclips that some people have problems with Airstreams, but fortunately that isn’t us. We have traveled with two other couples and while a little small for four people, we have thoroughly enjoyed the travel trailer experience. Thank you for your helpful videos.
I grew up "next door" to Airstream - I could see the factory from my bedroom window - and my mom worked there for 45 years. They are NOT like the RV companies in northern Indiana. Their build quality and design process is much higher. Yes you pay more, but you still get a quality product. Biggest issues (I would guess) are with components they source from other companies. Glad you are enjoying your Flying Cloud!
My dad just gave us his 2002 Georgie Boy Landau 2450 DS on the 8.1l Workhorse chassis. The build-quality is AMAZING. Flexsteel furniture, big, thick, clear wood cabinetry, quiet, big mirrors you can see through the windshield, huge storage garage, the list is endless. We just dropped it off at the service center for a top-to-bottom service and to upgrade the electrical system to have 2 BattleBorn Lion batteries and an inverter with automatic generator start, Bilsteins, modern camera system, etc. And it is QUICK, even up the grapevine, and turns on a dime. I was looking at the Winnebago Vista 29NP. No way with today's shoddy build quality, even though the floor-plan is superior.
I work for Orange County Vintage Trailers in California and we restore old vintage trailers. But I own a new Attitude toy hauler and the workmanship is very poor. I’ve already had to fix many problems straight from the dealer lot. So buyer beware! Don’t depend on the warranty to fix all of the problems that come with these cheaply built newer trailers. Just keep that in mind! Thanks Jared for an another informative video!💙
I got my 2019 Coachmen RV before the Covid rush. I'm glad I did. It's well built and I Haven't had a problem yet.