BREATH SUPPORT FOR SINGING (Lesson 4): Diaphragmatic Support Vs. Appoggio
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- In this video, I attempt to clear up the confusion about diaphragmatic support and appoggio: in particular, their differences in terms of coordination and objectives. / singwisevocals
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these videos about breathing are everything
:)
Finally someone who knows and explains both sides - classical singing and pop. Thank you!
It’s interesting that to keep the ribs out (activated) we don’t really need to do it with as much effort as I used to think. My first teacher was classical/opera and she taught me to keep my ribs out as long as possible, but since using the singing straw I can feel that my ribs are activated without having to push them as far out as I used to think. Still accomplishes the same task maybe even more efficiently.
Hello! I am currently struggling with the same problem. I am exerting too much effort to keep my ribs out. Please could you explain how you overcame this problem and can sing with ease? Which singing straw exercise are you talking about?
Thank you! This aspect has been so confusing to me too! So glad we're lucky enough to have teachers like you to explain things clearly!
I found that the Singingbelt really helped me so much in understanding this vocal technique. It’s made such a huge difference in my voice. Now I take Ruth Gerson’s class a couple times a week and she’s amazing.
WOW! ...that is is clearest, most all-encompassing definition of appoggio and diaphragmatic support that I have ever heard. Thank you so much!
Fabulous AS ALWAYS and such a needed explanation between the differences posted online. You are fantastic! :)
Thanks, Justin!
I thought you did a good job explaining 'appoggio' support from lower abdominal support and the differences in approach. I have really learned the concept of appoggio from the Italian vocal teacher, living in Canada, Franco Tinelli (on YT). In all honesty, though I had been with a very fine teacher for many many years, but I was not knowledgeable about the 'appoggio' approach until Tinelli. It did in fact take a while getting this approach into a consistent support (ie. breaking some older longstanding habits). However, it really and truly has made a considerable positive difference in singing. I continue to watch maestro Tinelli's videos (he has lots on this topic) to keep it 'fresh' in my understanding and practice. On another point you were also correct that this technique can and does work with more (as you put it) 'commercial' styles. In my case, I'm a long time tenor, but I can and do 'switch hit' to standards and so forth. Again, you speak very well, and I really enjoyed your presentation. I can tell, you know your 'stuff'! Best wishes.
This deserve a million views
Thank you! Great spirits and friendly approach!
My goooooooodness!!!! I used to be making the mistake of trying to sing the last 2 syllables "at last" of Journey to the Past (from Anastasia) with that confused "appoggio" breathing (because I was misinformed) , and I can tell you it was NOT happening...
Then, luckily my singing teacher (Iari Melchor!!!) pointed out to me how I was actually supposed to bread (just like YOU described the correct concept of Appoggio) and like a magic, now I have absolutely no problem singing 16 beats in one breath, in legato, holding the last note (B4b) for 14 beats with a natural vibrato, harmonics all showing up on my pitch monitor, and a slight crescendo.... The right berating is SOOOOOOOOO important and for that to happen it is critical that we actually understand what we are really talking about when using the Appoggio name. :)
Thanks for helping diminish misconceptions that can hinder one's singing progress soooooo much!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
I had to "like" this because you included that awesome scene from Princess Bride. Thank you!!! :D
I love how you explain complex ideas in a way that is understandable.
Hi! I love your videos and website. I have a question, and I was wondering if you could direct me to one of your videos that mentions this or could answer it here. My singing teacher encourages me to flex the stomach to allow for a rapid exhalation of air when transitioning from low to high notes (or going up an octave). This doesn't totally feel natural and it seems to contradict having a constant flow and just providing more air. She wants to see a sharp movement of the stomach when hitting the higher note. Have you heard of this technique being used?
This was such a great explanation! I am officially obsessed with you!
I'm glad it was helpful.
Karyn, I was wondering if i could (greedily) ask one more question: In your other video, you commented to a student something about the "finger on the solar plexus" exercise. Is that the technique where you press in after inhale, right below your sternum, to feel that bounce-back, and train that area to stay expanded?
Along with the ribs staying expanded (as long as possible), we should work to have that part not tight, right? I find that it helps, though i can't keep it out for the whole phrase.
Again, thanks for all your videos.
Thanks for your question. For the most part, yes, I was talking about not allowing the solar plexus region to become tensed and rigid. I don't know if it's necessary to try to keep it 'popped out' all the time or at all costs - this kind of expansion is really just meant to ensure or indicate a lack of rigidity. The exercise that I use with my students involves exerting gentle outward pressure against the finger tips (which are just gently touching that spot). It's not a forceful maneuvre, and I usually only recommend it for high and/or intense notes to prevent excessive breath pressure which can lead to pressed phonation, etc.. A study was done on the most effective directives for helping vocalists sing high notes, and this technique came out on top in terms of effectiveness. I've been wanting to record a video on this topic, but with my compromised abdominal wall, I feel like I can't demonstrate it effectively - it would be too difficult for viewers to see the action that I'm talking about. (I've actually tried recording it once already, unsuccessfully. Maybe I'll try again soon.)
Hey, Thanks so much for answering both my questions; it makes my day. (and of course, thanks for liking my plays. If only i'd known about breath support 150 years ago, they'd have been so much more melodic!).
I've always been hesitant, for some reason, with this exercise (just cause i hate the thought of pushing out in any way), but i have to say: it made me realize (only just today) how i didn't really have a connection with the diaphragm. Or at least not to the extent i thought. I also instantly felt/realized what pavarotti and all those chaps were talking about with the "i can push a piano away" (though that level of force/effort i'm gonna steer clear of).
As you've talked about before, singing (and esp breathing) is difficult because of both the necessarily-subjective vagueness, and the coordination of different muscles working. I also now realize another wrinkle: we want singing to be effortless, but at the same time we run into fairly unnatural stuff that we have to do- Like extend the top part of our abs while receding the bottom part.
If you do decide to do a lesson (even with the compromised wall), I think there's a chance the verbal approximation of it would be enough. Though it's too early to say so, i can see that this (coupled with the expanded ribs), is something of a game changer, at least to me.
Karyn, thank you so much, again. I truly truly appreciate it. Cheers
You're most welcome!
I grew up in Canada, in the Niagara Region, specifically. And I used to love attending the Shaw Festival at Niagara-on-the-Lake. That festival is actually what ignited my love of the theatre. So, I guess I really have you to thank for that. ;-)
Wonderfully explained! Just watched, and will write notes tomorrow!
Excellent! Although it may seem simple... there is so much confusion around there. Thanks for your teaching. I remember when I was first thaught breathing for singing, I was told to open the ribs (or letting them to open) when air comes in the body and then begin to sing. It was halfway from any of these two methods and very far from a good technique! and also, not effective at all, since the only thing I was doing was to open ribs but with no engagement whatsoever of any muscles! Fortunately, years later, books and other teachers later, I managed to fully understand this appoggio technique and am still training in it since this is a continual learning.
Learning to breathe for singing can be such a complicated endeavour, can't it? Sometimes I suspect that we tend to overthink matters, and then up tinkering too much with what is otherwise coming naturally or intuitively, and then end up with a really messed up breath management technique. Sometimes we need help with learning this, but sometimes that 'help' isn't really all that helpful. I really do believe that there are some general principles that apply to all singers, regardless of the genres in which they sing, but that there are also some aspects of support that necessarily differ between individuals and between genres. If we get the basics down, we can then tweak our strategy according to our individual needs.
Thank you for the information but just to confirm, so Appoggio also using 360 degree inhale? Or just inhale sideway?
Appoggio is more than simply a breath management strategy because it also encompasses aspects of resonance and tone. In any case, the technique involves not simply getting a 360 degree expansion - breathing into both the sides and the back - at the time of inhalation, but also an elevation of the sternum before inhalation, a 'quiet' chest and shoulders during the entire breath cycle, and a maintenance of some of the 360 expansion throughout part of the vocal phrase in order to slow the rise of the diaphragm and thus maintain manageable (lower) subglottal pressures. I hope this answers your question satisfactorily. :)
Awesome. Thank yoi so much :)
You're welcome.
I'm finally offcially starting my vocal journeybeven tho I've been followibgbyou for years. I'm so exctied because you're all up in my vocal playlist 😭😄😄
Hey Karyn, I'm trying to connect up these ideas with things I've heard before, and I feel like the "accent method" probably falls more under the diaphragmatic support category rather than the appoggio category. Would you say this is true?
Carol is really exceptional and I have benefited greatly from her instructional videos. The only criticism I would offer is with regard to the camera position. The camera is always very tight so that we can't see her upper torso when she's speaking about and gesturing to the inspiration and expiration muscles, for example. Also, it gets just a little overwhelming for her to always be so close. I would back up to keep her waist high in the frame most of the time.
Thank you for your feedback and suggestion. (I am aware of the limitations of the camera position, but my waist/belly area is one that I'm really self-conscious about, so I intentionally show as little of that area as possible.)
Fantastic!!! Thank you!! 👏 I have been extremely confused by explanations of appoggio that explain the “leaning” of appoggio is on the larynx. The professors/singers sounds extremely throaty and unpleasant…
Hey Karyn. I'm just curious as to when we'll get to see you singing a song? I'm really curious as to what your voice sounds like. 😁
The light is perfect in this video. Show your mouth very clear. Make some exercises using this light and position.
Thank you. I'd love to use more natural lighting like this, but I usually can't record videos until my kids are out of the house at their activities, in the early evening. With the days getting longer again, though, I may be able to start taking advantage of the natural lighting again. Thanks for watching and commenting.
O.k the first method is just funny .. there is no compression while you pull your belly inside , you just lose the entire pressure, the only way to breath in all styles is the appoggio method
I’ve always used appoggio (at least, since I was taught it) and just assumed that’s what everyone meant by diaphragmatic support. Do people really push in their abdomen and raise their diaphragm for support?
This is just talking about the terms. I'll look around for a video that demonstrates physically what they are.
Thank you so much! It was so confusing prior.
Nice distinction - thanks! You mentioned Alan Greene (The new voice) a while ago. I have since ordered his book and been looking into his techniques, but I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this subject, as his approach is definitely different to any other I've come across (although of course, his ideas compliment and lie in harmony with good technique.)
If I may just say one of my favorite books, you will enjoy it. Bob
thank you so much for sharing☺
You're welcome.
I thought they were the same? I'll watch tomorrow !
Yea, you have clarified it. 👍 & subacribed
I don't understand how she can think this video is effective about abdominal control when the camera is focused above that area.
Oh my goodness. Thank you SO MUCH!!!
You're most welcome!
Do you teach classical singers?
Yes. I'm not strong in teaching classical repertoire or in accompaniment, but I've worked with a lot of professional and up-and-coming opera singers. (I trained in bel canto technique for nearly nine years.) My main focus is always on freeing up the instrument, balancing out the coordination, registration, and resonance, defining vowels, etc..
singwisevocals Thanks for your reply. One of my favorite opera singers, Laura Aikin, used your wonderful blog on breathing, breathing and support.
Thanks so much Karyn.
You're welcome!
Thank you very much for this!
You're welcome!
God truly bless you
Instant sub
I found out (I'm still in the learning process) that if I make a "noble" position... stand with wide rib cage like a successful general in front of his troops seconds before his speech :).. makes a kind of Appogio automatically.. ;)
Then, can we hear you sing please?
YESSSSS.!!!!!!
The 'I' in appoggio is not sounded.
She's not the only english speaking teacher who does this on youtube. LOL
Yes, I know. :(
You realy love your voice dont you!
Pete, We all have to, to be able to sing well.
So cool