@@Sam-tc8ic Do you mean the 17. Ss-Panzergrenadierdivision „Götz von Belingen“? Since there wasn't a 17. Panzergrenadierdivision in the Wehrmacht. If yes, you should know that the Panzergrenadierdivisionen of the Waffen-SS had 15 instead of 14 (motorized infantey) companies, although that doesn't matter in Hoi4 for example, and an additional machine gun, anti-air and supply batallion.
I just discovered your site today, and may I say, Bravo! I've been a wargamer since 1972, and read military history since I could read! This information would probably leave the average person staring like a deer in the headlights, but I truly enjoy your work. Thank you.
4:00 I think you meant *sevety-seven* half-tracks - the 1943 figures averaged them at 77 so I'm guessing that's where you got that number from. 15,252 SdKfz 251 halftracks were manufactured *alone* let alone the other variants. Oh, and SUBSCRIBED. I love your informative videos, you answer so many questions I've always had. I think it's great that you are showing us the German perspective as a German yourself having done your research, it's rare to see and thus you're much more credible than others. Danke!
I've just found your channel, and as a fledgling re-enactor for the 9th 'Hohenstaufen' this is helping me brush up on my history very well. Thank you and keep up the good work.
I was just reading the memoir of General Hoth about the Army Group Center and his 3rd Panzer and having the question on the difference between Motorized division and Panzer division. And here is your video answering my question... :-) thank you!
I would highly recommend to not read any memoirs unless you know the subject way better, these memoirs are usually full of errors etc. and thus might lead to many myths. For more information see these videos: ruclips.net/video/UTgf3UHMBjY/видео.html ruclips.net/video/6FoiU_jkL0Q/видео.html
Very interesting video, as always. So the assault guns were StuG 3s, despite the fact that they were now equipped with AT guns? Were the older models still used in 1944? Was their main task still engaging infantry and fortifications? And with such a large number of them built, how often, if ever, would they replace the basic tank destroyers(I assume Jagdpanzer 4s) in The 1944 MID?
Super video! Keep them coming :) IIRC then what we call a mechanised NATO infantry division today is comparable to a German WWII panzer division (part of this is because small countries will not have tanks enough to field armoured units at a size, where they can be effective independent strategic fighting units). As it will usually mean all units are at least motorised, one of the largest sub units (depending on size that can be regiment or brigade - American division are sometime 40k+) is considered armoured (fighting vehicles and tanks), and you have about a battalion of tanks. When your armoured divisions are really mech. inf., then it also makes sense to confuse the enemy by referring to your mot. inf. as mech. inf. I also seem to remember that to be classified as a Pz. division late in the war, then you just needed a single armoured unit. The standards for this dropped so much towards the end that a division could be called a Pz division if it had just a 4 tanks platoon. Is this accurate?
Kannst du mal bitte ein Video im Allgemeinen darüber machen, wie eine Kompanie, ein Bataillon, Regiment, Division, Trupp usw. aufgebaut sind? Also wie viel Mann so die Einheiten hatten, welcher Rang was geführt hat, und wie die aufgebaut waren, also so wie du es in etwa schon machst(eine Division hat... Bataillone,... Kompanien,... Trupps, keine Ahnung was sonst noch). Ich verstehe das ehrlich gesagt nicht so richtig...
Thank you for answering my question on whether any of the six panzergrenadier battalions had half-tracks. Apparently not. Note that two of the panzergrenadier companies in the reconnaissance battalion order of battle may be wrong. That may be a light wheeled company - on Kubelwagon or Swimmenwagon; a light armored panzergrenadier company using 250/x half-tracks, and a medium armored company using 251/x half-tracks. I don't believe all three were trucked. The heavy weapon company could have 8 81mm mortars in 251/2 or 4 towed 12cm mortars and six 251/9 half-tracks. The assaultgun battalion was a tank battalion but few of the Panzergrenadier Divisions actually received tanks. They were issued assaultguns instead. 3rd Pzgr Div in Italy for example. The six 15cm Infantry guns in each PzGr Regiment could have been towed but more likely were Grillie SP 15cm SIG33. The Pioneer Battalion usually had one company in medium SPW and two trucked. I believe the 18 flamethrowers were all back-pack although there may have been up to six 251/16 in the Panzergrenadier Regiment HQ or in the Pioneer Battalion. The motorcycles in the 1939 division were cut because each Motorized Rifle Regiment plus the Division in 1939 had a motorcycle battalion of infantry. These ended up absorbed into the Armored Reconnaissance Battalion. Too much maintenance, too much fuel, and not really usable on the East Front except in the summer. The remainder were mostly for use as messengers. The difference in AA between 1939 and 1944 was really striking although you might check that. I think the Luftwaffe was required to assign Panzer Divisions a Luftwaffe Flak battalion in the early war years. Possibly the Motorized Infantry Divisions as well. The Army introduced their own Flak battalions in 1942 I think. The 10 armored Sd Kfz 251/17 often seen online and in early books on German SP flak with fold down sides were for the Luftwaffe ground units and only those ten built. Not sure if the HG Panzer Parachute Division received them. Might have been one of the Luftwaffe Field Divisions. The added MP-40 were likely MP-40. The Sturmgewehr 44 were issued mostly to the Volksgrenadier Divisions. Going from 1 SMG per squad to 2 per squad would account for a large number of added MP40 since the motorcycle troops wouldn't have more than 1 per squad and the new reconnaissance battalions 3 companies with 2 per squad. StuG would have one or two each as well.
Loving these - vielen dank! However, you say the number of AT guns decreased from '39 to '44. Each of the 6 grenadier battalions had a platoon of 6 in its heavy company, so there were another 36 (and those were 75mm - in the KStN, anyway!)
Awesome video! I was wondering if you were planning on making a video about the Winter War. I know you covered it briefly during your original Barbarossa video but I feel it's often overshadowed by WWII and I've always been interested in learning more in depth information about the tactics used and the composition of the division's during the conflict. Thanks!
Winter War is probably the most asked topic here, yeah, I will cover it :) but may take a while. (Basically I have no knowledge about it and no sources.)
Aug 29, 2024. 200 men per comp. Would love to see all my games edited down or up. Clearly the motorcycles vs armored cars 39 vs 44 . Steel Div unit creator is prime stuff to play these organizations
A point to note is that the third Inf.Rgt (mot.) was removed after the Polish campaign because it was found the Inf.Div(mot.) was too unwieldy and would clog up the road network. So it was reduced to two regiments of three battalions - compare to a 1941 Pz Div. with 2-3 Pz Bns and 4 Inf Bns. The combat/manoeuvre size of both was optimised at 6-7 major units - the recon would often act as an additional unit but the engineers were usually split up to support different battle-groups.
A number of years ago, I spoke to a US WW2 veteran who said that they didn't fear the Fallschirmjäger so much as the Panzer Grenadiers. So, my question is,other than actual infantry tactics used by the Pz.Gren, what was the actual element within those units that was so effective and, apparently... frightening? Was it due to the amount/placement of mobile artillery? Did they usually have their SP guns and Panzerjäger units ready for (or to cause?) the breakthrough? It seems like all of those but I've never really been able to grasp it due to all the "myths",I guess. Danke!!
Would it be possible to do a video comparing WW2 era infantry small unit tactics and organisation between nations? Comparing, say, a German squad against a British section against a Russian squad.
at some point yes, but first I want to cover at least the basics of one country. Right now the videos are mostly about creating a strong foundation of basic knowledge in order to do more advanced videos like comparisons in the future. After all before 2016 I never looked at a division organization.
Nice, but one little nitpick: the increase in "Maschinenpistolen" in the 44 version was not about additional MP40s, instead they meant the MP44 (later StG44). In late 1944 most German infantry divisions were supposed to get a lot of these.
Excellent and needed presentation. So many people and not just Russians are convinced that the War in the West was just a side show if little importance. Notice how people making that argument always talk about MANPOWER. And here they are correct. But manpower is not the only measure of military power. One reason the Ostheer was unmotorized infantry was that most of German industry had to be used to support the war in the west. It does not take much industry to build a horse cart. It takes a great deal of industry to build aircraft and ships/U-boats, not to mention V-weapons. The Ostkrieg was the decisive campaign of the War. But the War in the West meant that Hitler could never fully equipped the German Ostkrieg, let alone the allied units. www.histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/air/eur/sbc/eco/sbc-gie.html
In the Barbarossa phase, the German armor theory was to penetrate deep and cause disruption with logistics, support infrastructure, and also in the assembly of reserves brought from districts far away. The composition of the armor corps varied in part due to what was available. One example is a corps with 1 Panzer division, 1 motorized division and 1 infantry division. I am thinking the Panzer division should be able to attack and defeat any enemy division, infantry or armor, they encounter, and the infantry division is mostly to occupy the supply route. From your description here, I am thinking the motorized infantry division can defend against an attack by an enemy armor division, but would not be used to attack enemy armor.
Why is the number of NCOs so high compared to the number of fielded personell? 2600 NCOs on 16000 men is a ratio of 6:1. This appears strange to me. Could you elaborate?
I don't know that yet, but the number of NCOs increased even more for the 1944 division. The NCOs are the backbone of every army and they know how to implement and lead directly, but so far I haven't read anything particular about this topic, but I will definitely cover that topic in the future. After all questions from Subscribers and my own often provide very interesting topics.
The squad size of the motorized infantry was 14, later 12, not 8. Two 3-man machine gun teams, a rifle squad/team and NCO. The Germans, wisely, invested a lot into their NCO´s - you could say that superior NCO´s is what kept the Wehrmacht capable for the latter third of the war, reducing the effect of the decreased training of the enlisted men (and boys).
Hello: I didn't hear any mention of "Luftwaffe liaison officers" for close air support, or for anti-aircraft duties. Maybe that's in part 2? Thank-you.
> "Luftwaffe liaison officers" for close air support Not 100 % certain, but as the name indicates, he is from the Luftwaffe, so he would not be organic to the division. At least so far I haven't seen a KStN where one was mentioned.
Great video! I was wondering if you are planning to do a video on a Panzerabteilung (oh god I hope I spelled that right) and perhaps a schwere Panzerabteilungen.
Can you do a video on the company scale version of this? How many men would be in a company of Panzergrenadiers and what they did? (Also were the SS panzergrenadier's set up the same way, or were hey organized different?)
SS motorized were set up the same way although they had StuG III (short barreled) in the Division from the first. Six then 18 then 31. Panzergrenadier SS Divisions 1-3 though set up this way in 1943 converted from motorized infantry divisions (with a 31 StuG battalion) also had a Panzer Regiment (2 BN 3 light (Pz III) and 1 medium (Pz IV) plus 1 Tiger I company, the 31 StuG III, a Panzerjager battalion with 2 Coy Marders and 1 of towed Pak. The six Panzergrenadier battalions had one battalion in 251 and the rest trucks. This was 1943 and these were actually Panzer Divisions. The 1944 SS Panzer Divisions were set up this way with the Panzer BN having one BN of Panzer IV/H and one of Panthers. 5th and 12th SS were set up this way. 9th and 10th were supposed to be but their Panzer IV battalions were half StuG III/G and half Pz IV/H and one of them arrived back in Normandy without its Panther battalion. The Panzerjager in 12th SS were Panzerjager IV/L48 by '44. 1st and 2nd SS lost their Tigers but 3rd SS kept theirs. 12th and 1st SS were made SS Panzer Korps I with a Nebelwerfer BN and Tiger BN 101 as Corps troops. SS Panzer Korps II with a Nebelwerfer BN and Tiger BN 102 was formed in '44. SS Panzer Korps III with Tiger BN 503 (SS 101 became SS 501 and SS 102 became SS 502 before Dec 16 '44) was formed in 1945 I think. 5th SS Panzer and FHH Panzer Division I think. Osprey has excellent books on the Panzer Divisions 1939-1940, 1941-1943, and 1944-45 as well as the Panzergrenadier Divisions.
Bane: for you maybe. Joking aside, you might have a point there. I know some post-war writings that agree, but I don't know if the guy was hyper-critical or not.
Are there any sites that show the organization on EVERY level up to division? Like starting with squads, then platoons, companies, etc. for all the unit types in a division.
Germany's divisions consisted of 9k men more or less during the latter part of WW2. They just didn't have enough men, after Russia started to grind them down.
MHV, Do you know anything about the equipment-history of the following wehrmacht divisions: - 3. Infanterie-Division (mot.): 3. ID was rebuild after france with captured vehicles to a motorised division. - 10. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Sent to germany in fall 40 to be rebuild into a mot division with german equipment. - 14. Infanterie Division (mot.): Rebuild into a mot division after france; most likely rebuild with german equipment. - 16. Infanterie-Division (mot.): The 16. ID was split after France: half div was used to form the 16. PzDiv. and the other half to build the 16. ID (mot.). - 18. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild after France. No details about equipment sources. - 25. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild after France. No details about equipment sources. - 36. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild into a mot division after france; most likely rebuild with french equipment. - 60. Infanterie-Division (mot.): rebuild started before the division saw combat in France. Most likely german equipment.
Wait so what happened in 1945? Did Germany just dump the Panzergrenadier formation completely? Then where were those grenadiers allotted to? Incorporated into Panzer-Divisions? Or assigned to Volksgrenadier-Divisions?
The Kriegsgliederung for the Panzer Division 45 was adopted in March 1945, the PzGr divisions were supposed to adopt this new gliederung but it's effect so late in the war is debatable, e.g. the 25th PzGr division in March and April was still organized under the Gliederung for a 1944 PzGr division, and the I.Batt of PzGr Regt 119 was still armoured(Gepanzerte). On the 2nd April 1945 due to losses it was ordered to re-organize using the Panzer Division45 gliederung, but what practical effect this had just 8 weeks before the end of the war is hard to tell without a later Kriegsgliederung to go by, but I haven't seen one and they may not exist. Also bear in mind that the adoption of new Kriegsgliderung was not an automatic process when a new one was issued, all divisions whether they were infantry, panzer, pzgr etc only changed to a new gliederung when ordered to, which is why throughout the war you will find the same type of division e.g. panzer divisions operating at the same time but with different organizations. .
Can you help me find my grandads information please. He was in 16th inf then 16motorised inf. he died in Stalingrad. Herman Munchhausen. Yes that is his real name. He was a funker with 2 stripes on his arm. Please please help me coz I can’t speak German anymore
You should be aware that there would be plenty of deviations to your PzGr outline, as there would any division in the German army. The 25th PzGr division on the 1st April 1945 was authorized to have, 484 officers, 0 Beamten(civilian officials), 2940 NCO's, 11721 men and 0 Hiwi's. In terms of AFV's it was authorized to have 50 Sturmgeschutz, 8 PzKpfw III and 46 PzKpfw V Panther's, but it also had 4 PzKpfw IV's even though they weren't authorized. The Sturmgeshutz were a mixture of 30 x StuG III and 20 StuG IV's. It's difficult to know how many armoured halftracks it had(Sdkfz 251's etc) as on the Zustandberichte it doesn't list individual vehicle types, although it must have been authorized several as the I./Batt PzGr Regt 119 was still an Gepanzerte(Armoured) battalion, the Stab(staff) of the PzGr Regt 119 was armoured as was one Kompanie of the Pioniere Battalion.
Hi, can you do specialized units like Grossdeutschland? And why you focus in PzGren Div 44 if it was only used for a short time as you say? you should have explained the type 43 more and not just the number of weapons and men but how where they organized in companies, platoons, squads.
This is an excellent series. The information is great. I am an avid war gamer and model builder. Could you give detailed information on the TO&E of a Armored Artillery Regiment assigned to panzer divisions, for the latter war years? I am mostly interested in the Observation unit. For example: How many PZ Beob Wg Panther V tanks were assigned ? How many SP guns per battery, were there communications vehicles with each battery? Thank you in advance!
thank you, well, my organization videos aren't really so successful sadly, but I have two approaches that will bring them back a bit more. About the Observation unit, not sure if I have enough data on it, personally I would be also interested in taking a closer look, but first I got to pay the bills. Hopefully there is something in the Field Artillery book from Bailey(?) or there is something useful in US Field Manual, not sure there is a "Reibert" on this.
You might check The Handbook of the German Armored Forces (Indiana university press) for detailed organization data. This reprinted collection of wartime intelligence updates and familiarisations well chronicles the evolution of the Panzeraffe in equipment, training, organization, employment, and over time.
It's pretty hard to find statistics of motorized infantry divisions in certain period, for instance early 1944. Then it's difficult to find numbers how much these units actually had tank destroyers and assault guns. I doubt did many of motorized infantry divisions have 31 tank destroyers and 42 assault guns. More likely they had hardly more than half of those numbers even if counting those in work shops.
Very Informative video ; the Wermacht was a model of military and war execution ; no wonder they were the strongest in Europe and could take on the American ,Australian and Canadian armies !
Your german spelling sounds like you are a German yourself. If so you should do a second channel on german..would be a nice gift for the channels over here. Greetings from Mannheim. :)
were the SPWs upgunned with weapons such as the PzB 41, 37mm pak and 75mm added to panzergrenadier regiments or to special abteilungen of the division?
I have a question maybe you can help with, I am building 1/35 scale German Panzergrenadier Company the picture included with model says indicates the HQ Company had 2 Sd.Kfz 250, a BMW motorcycle with side car and 3 zundapp motorcycles. The company has 4 platoons the first 3 are the same the platoon leader 251/10 followed by 3 251/1’s. The last platoon named the heavy armored platoon consist of 1 Sd.kfz 251/3, 2 Sd.Kfz 251/2, and 2 of the 251/1 sporting heavy machine M.G I know by the picture it’s not your typical M.G.42 or 34. So could you shed some light on what the other heavy M.G. Might be, and the Sd.Kfz 250’s for the HQ would those be the 250/3 radio cars? Any insight would be helpful
HQ were more likely a 250/1 and a 251/3 (radio vehicle) or a 251/1 and 251/3. The 251/3 in the heavy weapons allowed it to be used as an artillery fire direction center for the mortars in the 251/2. Later 2 x 251/9 with 75L24 (the early Mark IV tank guns) were added and they could also be directed in indirect fire although they usually were used as infantry gun support firing direct. The 251/1 heavy machinegun half-tracks are 251/1s. The "s" is for heavy (in German). They had a special mount on them, no MG shield and also carried a second MG34 team with a MG34. They carried two tripods, one for each machinegun so dismounted you get two heavy (WWII term - Medium MG in modern terminology) teams from each half-track. The special mount allowed one of the MG34 from the HMG teams to be mounted on the half-track used as a HMG (modern MMG) from the half-track. The standard MG34 mount behind a gun shield at the front of the passenger compartment was equivalent to a LMG mount. The 251/1s did not have one of these.
Very good work ! Clear and nice use of cognitive tools (colors & icons) Useful to me as I'm creating a board game about WW2. I have a question : There seems to be an official distinction between Assault Guns and Tank Destroyers in the terminology. But as Stug III ausf G were mostly built and not that many StuH 42, were the Stug III both used as AG and TD in reality ? I mean most of the time. Thank you
yeah, one could say an assault gun was often also used as a tank destroyer, whereas a tank destroyer was more dedicated. Also in case of Germany, the assault guns were party of the artillery branch namely the assault artillery and not the tank branch. The StuH was the implies was an assault howitzer. You can find more information for that in my video about the assault artillery btw: ruclips.net/video/tFXZcC1xZnI/видео.html
Will you make video of designing divisions in HOI IV? Cause when I look on your video "Panzergrenadier-Division & Motorized Infantry Division 1939/1944" I have problem to ... well to copy that pattern into HOI IV division designer.
Did Panzergrenadiers wear different color uniforms than the standard infantry? I ask because I paint 1/35 figures and might get Panzergrenadiers and would like to know hot to paint them.
So the Artillery observer unit was moved to Army Command. Does that mean the 4th Army for example would have an artillery observer unit attached to it's command battalion?
so far I need to look into how this army unit (Heerestruppe) system really worked. As far as I know it was in a pool and got allocated to divisions if needed.
They were used for fast transportation, usually for recon units, and were often fitted with Machingewehrs on the sidecar. But that is just from my knowledge, wait for someone more educated to answer.
In 1939 recon was a thing that was need . up until ww1 and machineguns everywhere...this was done by horse mounted cavalry. Horses and automatic weapons dont mix sooo they are now (in 1939) used to tow artillery and supply wagons. But that recon and communications still needs to be done by something faster than men on foot or bicycle. (also radios werent Everywhere yet) So motorized bicycles are the obvious answer. Given the economic restraints of germany ... motorcycles are cheaper to make, maintain, and easier to field, than trucks. So there they are every where. side cars and all. In reality it was quickly determined that motorcycles of the period were not in point of fact the "mechanical horses that could go anywhere horses do but smaller and faster" in actuality their mobility was entirely dependent on the quality of the roads they traveled. No road, no quality. dirt tracks.. good enough as long as it is in fact a dirt track and not mud. Cobblestone streets ideal for horse and wagon? = bad Railroad tracks = just as bad Sand? = just Nope. Thus the invention of Kettenkrad. unfortunately, tracks are a bitch to repair away from a motor pool. And Recon units spend the bulk of their time far away from the motorpool. thus why so few of them exist. epsecially as radios become everywhere the germans can have them. (see the addition of a signals battalion) So in the end they were just phased out. MInd you if they had the where withal and capacity to make something like the motocross off road bikes of today with incredibly strong AND durable suspensions (Your average modern motocross bike has as much as 5x the suspension strength of a regular full sized street bike with as little as 1/4 the over all weight). with anywhere from 50 to 200 horsepower lightweight engines (something not even normal sized vehicles had at 1939), specialized off road tires (that suffer on actual roads just because) on a vehicle that one person can push down the road if they had to or just throw in the back of a wagon/truck. ... it could have been much different. Imagine Poland equipping some detached cavalry troops of Hussars (because why not?)Becoming practiced at asymmetrical warfare (in this case focused on Being where enemy logistics Are and where enemy machine guns Are Not) mounted on dirt bikes with a few trucks for carrying (in order of importance): a means of wireless communications, extra fuel, spare parts, water, bullets+bombs, and food. With Horse units following the same doctrine. Only being slower, easier to hide, even more "off Road' and lasting longer in a campaign because they are not reliant on resupply of fuel and parts. (if necessary stealing enemy resources like horses, water, fodder, food and munitions to continue operations and maybe enemy trucks and fuel) All roving about in the Central Europe country side. (A place that has favored fast moving cavalry since the dawn of war) with pistols, SMG's, fire bombs and grenades and later on the occasional Bazooka/Panzerfaust) like something out of a Mad Max movie. 0.0 (so yeah there will be that one guy that wants to drive faster/closer so he can hit them with his sword/lance ) While we are imagining made up never happened things ... suppose facist and communist flavors of Hungarians, Cossacks and maybe even Finns(have you SEEN what they do with home built rally cars?its practically a national pastime) ; knowing a 'good' idea to steal when they see one, all on DirtBikes running all over everyones rear areas in the eastern front. .
I am not sure if anyone else’s feels this way, but I am so freaking confused by all this. Organization of The division that it’s making my head spin a bit. How am I suppose to write a fantasy war novel if I don’t understand the basic formation of the units :(
Military History Visualized Holy cow, I got a reply from one of my favorite RUclipsr’s! Thank you so much! You made my day a lot better! 😊😁. I guess I will have to just keep chugging along and learning what I can understand, one piece at time! Wish me luck! 🍀
ideally check out the organization playlist, since I haven't done an organization video for ages. Most of them date back to 2016. The why 512(?) men for a howitzer / field gun is for a smaller unit, also there is another one for an infantry battalion as well.
I recall hearing that the StuGs in panzer grenadier divisions had to stagger their withdraws for reloading ammo because it may shatter the grenadier's moral.
Dont forget Many of those infantry squads/platoons didnt always get to the battle on their own truck but rather just hitched a ride sitting on top of their attached StuG (weather/enemy action permitting) And StuG operators didnt mind at all. having some Infantry near by to keep enemy infatry from getting to close with antitank weapons is a good thing. When your unit may end up moving 40 km a day on demand you would get nervous too if your only ride says "i gotta go get more ammo. Dont worry ill be right back..."
I've a question, this 1939 layout would be the one used by the 4 motorized division Germany had by the start of the war, yes? Well, Niehorster has listed manpower and equipment according to the 39/40 mobilization plan here niehorster.org/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_lt-01.html (That's the 1. leichte for an example). What I'm wondering is, why do the numbers vary so much between sources? For instance, you mention that the 39 mot. div. had only 31 SMG's, whereas according to Niehorster the division would have had an average of 198 (I calculated the average between the 4 divisions) SMG's. Who should I trust here if I intend to find out the actual strength of the average motorized division on field by the start of the war? Cheers for the video, never imagined there'd be a source to contradict Niehorster!
a light division is NOT a motorized division... wait what? Why bring you in the Leichte Division, when it is not about it at all? Please reformulate your question to exactly what the problem is, because I have no time for second guessing what you actually meant.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Ah shit, for some reason I was under the impression that a leichte division meant a motorized division. My bad, now the sources are matching, sorry for wasting your time.
no worries. Yeah, leichte Divisions are a bit of an annoyance and can be confusing. Usually people count them as Panzer divisions. This would also make sense, since the SMGs were often used in Panzers if I remember correctly.
Are you gonna do a video on Tiger tanks in the German military? I.e. how they were deployed or how many were used in Divisions etc. Tigers are my favorite thing about ww2 Germany!
pretty sure I didn't miss it, but it has been a while. It is one of the many miscellaneous units, clearly the most important, but still in terms of overall material and manpower not that important.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Naja Feldgendamerie, Divisions Begleit Kompanie (oder anderer Name/Gliederung) und Kriegsberichterstatter Zug sind ganz interessant, vor allem im Bezug auf heutige Konzepte. Du hast bei den Kampfeinheiten angefangen und dann mit den Unterstützungseinheiten geendet, wobei alle Bücherquellen die ich kenne mit Divisionsstab anfangen, dann die Kampfeinheiten zeigen und dann Divisionsnachschub, Fuhrpark, Verwaltungstruppe (nicht Führung sondern Verpflegungsamt, Feldpost, Bäckerei, Fleischerei, Feldersatz und zugehörige Schutz- und Transportkompanien).. Glück Ab!
das geht schon massiv ins Detail, vor allem setzt es voraus das jemand eine Ahnung von einer modernen Division / Brigade hat. Ja, bei einem Buch kann auch keiner wegklicken, sehr viel hier ist halt eine Anpassung zwischen Detail- und Fachwissen, aber trotzdem nicht "zu heftig". Am besten geht leider halt immer cookie cutter content. Der Informationsgehalt von manchen Videos auf RUclips ist meist gering bis sehr gering. Bäckereikompanie war mal geplant, hab auch ein KTB einer Fleischerei Kompanie gefunden, eventuell wird das auf meinen Zweitkanal mal behandelt: ruclips.net/user/MilitaryHistoryVlogs Dort hab ich auch mal ein Video zu Taktik, Operation & Strategie gemacht, kaum jemand angesehen :(
Sir, can you, please, clarify something? It remains unclear were those assault guns Stug-3 and Stug-4 or have they been replaced with more fitting StuH-42, Brummbär and other assault guns. That's all about classification, because Stug-3 and 4 were classified as sturmgeschutze, though having StuK-40 75mm guns, unlike other assault guns which had howitzers.
In reality those Panzergrenadier divisions in 1944 had hardly more than half of assault gun/tank destroyer numbers even before main battles. Total about 35-45. Not 73.
More like the Wespe. StuGs are more likely to fall under tank destroyers. Of course, it may depend on the model of SP ART, as light SP ART and heavy SP ART may be very different. At least the pre-named models you can research in the tech tree have the Wespe as being Light SP ART based on the Pz II, and the StuG III is a Medium Tank Destroyer based on the Pz III.
What was the point of the Heer having a dedicated Anti-aircraft battalion? I thought the Luftwaffe Flak Divisions were meant to provide direct AA support to the front. Seems redundant
![[Barbarossa] The Major Errors and Blunders - Or why Barbarossa Failed](/img/1.gif)
This stuff is pure gold for wargamers wanting to organize realistic units.
I'm literately watching this to make the 17th PzGr Div
@@Sam-tc8ic Do you mean the 17. Ss-Panzergrenadierdivision „Götz von Belingen“? Since there wasn't a 17. Panzergrenadierdivision in the Wehrmacht. If yes, you should know that the Panzergrenadierdivisionen of the Waffen-SS had 15 instead of 14 (motorized infantey) companies, although that doesn't matter in Hoi4 for example, and an additional machine gun, anti-air and supply batallion.
You can get TOEs and OOBs in "books", that's where I used to get my info for tabletop before there was an internet.
I did this in HOI4 a lot
Steel Division 2 is where it's at.
Thank you for this video. I fell of my seat when you said there only 7 Haft track in Division.
It's like a parachute division with only 30 parachutes between them - morale naming.
James m Because...?
james m ooo9 lo oo9
Yes, I knew that half tracks were in short supply, but that also surprised me.
your channel is outstanding. I am a history buff an still learn a lot from your channel. well done and subbed.
They tended to leg it unless they had proper support.
I find that the more I learn the more I realise I'm still just getting started learning about history
I just discovered your site today, and may I say, Bravo! I've been a wargamer since 1972, and read military history since I could read! This information would probably leave the average person staring like a deer in the headlights, but I truly enjoy your work. Thank you.
thank you!
School: Social studies test at 9:00
Me at 2:08 in the morning: Panzergrenadierdivision 1944 composition
Yes, some people fall asleep counting sheep, I fall asleep counting organizational tables...
Frankly a Better Learning Experience
Many thanks for taking the time to make these videos, they are very interesting and informative.
4:00 I think you meant *sevety-seven* half-tracks - the 1943 figures averaged them at 77 so I'm guessing that's where you got that number from. 15,252 SdKfz 251 halftracks were manufactured *alone* let alone the other variants. Oh, and SUBSCRIBED. I love your informative videos, you answer so many questions I've always had. I think it's great that you are showing us the German perspective as a German yourself having done your research, it's rare to see and thus you're much more credible than others. Danke!
Your comment deserves attention
minor correction: he's austrian not german
@@woulverine__0118thats the same
I've just found your channel, and as a fledgling re-enactor for the 9th 'Hohenstaufen' this is helping me brush up on my history very well. Thank you and keep up the good work.
StuG Life
Hetzers gonna hetz
BeFlight don't Bren that in here.
Go Wespe young man...
😂👍🏻
I was just reading the memoir of General Hoth about the Army Group Center and his 3rd Panzer and having the question on the difference between Motorized division and Panzer division. And here is your video answering my question... :-) thank you!
I would highly recommend to not read any memoirs unless you know the subject way better, these memoirs are usually full of errors etc. and thus might lead to many myths. For more information see these videos:
ruclips.net/video/UTgf3UHMBjY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/6FoiU_jkL0Q/видео.html
this is a awsome vid,your accent is thicker than hitler's mustache but im fine whit that. keep up the great vids man
Very interesting video, as always.
So the assault guns were StuG 3s, despite the fact that they were now equipped with AT guns? Were the older models still used in 1944? Was their main task still engaging infantry and fortifications? And with such a large number of them built, how often, if ever, would they replace the basic tank destroyers(I assume Jagdpanzer 4s) in The 1944 MID?
the long 75 could still fire effective HE
Super video! Keep them coming :)
IIRC then what we call a mechanised NATO infantry division today is comparable to a German WWII panzer division (part of this is because small countries will not have tanks enough to field armoured units at a size, where they can be effective independent strategic fighting units).
As it will usually mean all units are at least motorised, one of the largest sub units (depending on size that can be regiment or brigade - American division are sometime 40k+) is considered armoured (fighting vehicles and tanks), and you have about a battalion of tanks.
When your armoured divisions are really mech. inf., then it also makes sense to confuse the enemy by referring to your mot. inf. as mech. inf.
I also seem to remember that to be classified as a Pz. division late in the war, then you just needed a single armoured unit. The standards for this dropped so much towards the end that a division could be called a Pz division if it had just a 4 tanks platoon. Is this accurate?
Excellent information, thank you very much!!
Please do video about Volksgrenadiers, nobody ever seems to remember that they were very different from infantry and Volksturm.
Very interesting about the equipment. I didn't know they were mostly trucks.
MakeMeThinkAgain Opel Blitz, and some French BauteLKW
@ MakeMeThinkAgain Many of the trucks were seized from occupied Western Europe and not suitable for military operations in the East.
Excellent video! Thanks for sharing this fascinating information.
Kannst du mal bitte ein Video im Allgemeinen darüber machen, wie eine Kompanie, ein Bataillon, Regiment, Division, Trupp usw. aufgebaut sind? Also wie viel Mann so die Einheiten hatten, welcher Rang was geführt hat, und wie die aufgebaut waren, also so wie du es in etwa schon machst(eine Division hat... Bataillone,... Kompanien,... Trupps, keine Ahnung was sonst noch). Ich verstehe das ehrlich gesagt nicht so richtig...
could u do a late war heavy tank abietelung (probably spelled that wrong but I think it means group)?
yeah, definitely planned, already have sources etc.
Military History Visualized great! Can't wait 👍
I believe it's spelled like 'schwere Panzer abteilung'
awesome
Panzer not Tank
Thank you for answering my question on whether any of the six panzergrenadier battalions had half-tracks. Apparently not. Note that two of the panzergrenadier companies in the reconnaissance battalion order of battle may be wrong. That may be a light wheeled company - on Kubelwagon or Swimmenwagon; a light armored panzergrenadier company using 250/x half-tracks, and a medium armored company using 251/x half-tracks. I don't believe all three were trucked. The heavy weapon company could have 8 81mm mortars in 251/2 or 4 towed 12cm mortars and six 251/9 half-tracks. The assaultgun battalion was a tank battalion but few of the Panzergrenadier Divisions actually received tanks. They were issued assaultguns instead. 3rd Pzgr Div in Italy for example. The six 15cm Infantry guns in each PzGr Regiment could have been towed but more likely were Grillie SP 15cm SIG33. The Pioneer Battalion usually had one company in medium SPW and two trucked. I believe the 18 flamethrowers were all back-pack although there may have been up to six 251/16 in the Panzergrenadier Regiment HQ or in the Pioneer Battalion. The motorcycles in the 1939 division were cut because each Motorized Rifle Regiment plus the Division in 1939 had a motorcycle battalion of infantry. These ended up absorbed into the Armored Reconnaissance Battalion. Too much maintenance, too much fuel, and not really usable on the East Front except in the summer. The remainder were mostly for use as messengers.
The difference in AA between 1939 and 1944 was really striking although you might check that. I think the Luftwaffe was required to assign Panzer Divisions a Luftwaffe Flak battalion in the early war years. Possibly the Motorized Infantry Divisions as well. The Army introduced their own Flak battalions in 1942 I think. The 10 armored Sd Kfz 251/17 often seen online and in early books on German SP flak with fold down sides were for the Luftwaffe ground units and only those ten built. Not sure if the HG Panzer Parachute Division received them. Might have been one of the Luftwaffe Field Divisions.
The added MP-40 were likely MP-40. The Sturmgewehr 44 were issued mostly to the Volksgrenadier Divisions. Going from 1 SMG per squad to 2 per squad would account for a large number of added MP40 since the motorcycle troops wouldn't have more than 1 per squad and the new reconnaissance battalions 3 companies with 2 per squad. StuG would have one or two each as well.
How many baguettewerfers was each Panziergrenadier division equipped with? :)
About 1940
They were part of the Bakery Company, although later units switched to Pumpernickelwerfer.
I’ve always loved the half tracks.
Wonderful work, thanks.
thank you!
I didn't choose the StuG life, StuG life chose me.
Es ist kein Mensch, es ist kein Tier, es ist ein deutscher Panzer Grenadier!
Jan-Alexander Pelz musst deutscher oder panzer weg lassen damites von den silben her aufgeht. :)
Way ahead of the competition
Loving these - vielen dank! However, you say the number of AT guns decreased from '39 to '44. Each of the 6 grenadier battalions had a platoon of 6 in its heavy company, so there were another 36 (and those were 75mm - in the KStN, anyway!)
Awesome video! I was wondering if you were planning on making a video about the Winter War. I know you covered it briefly during your original Barbarossa video but I feel it's often overshadowed by WWII and I've always been interested in learning more in depth information about the tactics used and the composition of the division's during the conflict. Thanks!
Winter War is probably the most asked topic here, yeah, I will cover it :) but may take a while. (Basically I have no knowledge about it and no sources.)
+Military History Visualized Great, I'll look forward to it! I'm sure you'll find a way to slip in a Talvisota-Sabaton reference ;)
Aug 29, 2024. 200 men per comp. Would love to see all my games edited down or up. Clearly the motorcycles vs armored cars 39 vs 44 . Steel Div unit creator is prime stuff to play these organizations
There were schutzen regiments early on too, light green waffenfarbe, we get examples with 5th leichte, also motorised.
A point to note is that the third Inf.Rgt (mot.) was removed after the Polish campaign because it was found the Inf.Div(mot.) was too unwieldy and would clog up the road network. So it was reduced to two regiments of three battalions - compare to a 1941 Pz Div. with 2-3 Pz Bns and 4 Inf Bns. The combat/manoeuvre size of both was optimised at 6-7 major units - the recon would often act as an additional unit but the engineers were usually split up to support different battle-groups.
Very interesting, you do quite a good job at this my friend! :)
A number of years ago, I spoke to a US WW2 veteran who said that they didn't fear the Fallschirmjäger so much as the Panzer Grenadiers. So, my question is,other than actual infantry tactics used by the Pz.Gren, what was the actual element within those units that was so effective and, apparently... frightening? Was it due to the amount/placement of mobile artillery? Did they usually have their SP guns and Panzerjäger units ready for (or to cause?) the breakthrough? It seems like all of those but I've never really been able to grasp it due to all the "myths",I guess.
Danke!!
PLEASE do more Videos like this for HOI4. I love this SOOOO much!
Would it be possible to do a video comparing WW2 era infantry small unit tactics and organisation between nations? Comparing, say, a German squad against a British section against a Russian squad.
at some point yes, but first I want to cover at least the basics of one country. Right now the videos are mostly about creating a strong foundation of basic knowledge in order to do more advanced videos like comparisons in the future. After all before 2016 I never looked at a division organization.
Nice, but one little nitpick: the increase in "Maschinenpistolen" in the 44 version was not about additional MP40s, instead they meant the MP44 (later StG44). In late 1944 most German infantry divisions were supposed to get a lot of these.
Great work , Sir can u please do one on the NZ 2nd division of world war two , i heard by the end of the war it was the size of a corps.
thank you, at some point and I probably will, may take a while though.
Excellent and needed presentation. So many people and not just Russians are convinced that the War in the West was just a side show if little importance. Notice how people making that argument always talk about MANPOWER. And here they are correct. But manpower is not the only measure of military power. One reason the Ostheer was unmotorized infantry was that most of German industry had to be used to support the war in the west. It does not take much industry to build a horse cart. It takes a great deal of industry to build aircraft and ships/U-boats, not to mention V-weapons. The Ostkrieg was the decisive campaign of the War. But the War in the West meant that Hitler could never fully equipped the German Ostkrieg, let alone the allied units. www.histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/air/eur/sbc/eco/sbc-gie.html
In the Barbarossa phase, the German armor theory was to penetrate deep and cause disruption with logistics, support infrastructure, and also in the assembly of reserves brought from districts far away. The composition of the armor corps varied in part due to what was available. One example is a corps with 1 Panzer division, 1 motorized division and 1 infantry division. I am thinking the Panzer division should be able to attack and defeat any enemy division, infantry or armor, they encounter, and the infantry division is mostly to occupy the supply route. From your description here, I am thinking the motorized infantry division can defend against an attack by an enemy armor division, but would not be used to attack enemy armor.
this guy ROCKS
"667" men in the Supply Units - "Neighbor of the Beast" - well played!
Why is the number of NCOs so high compared to the number of fielded personell? 2600 NCOs on 16000 men is a ratio of 6:1. This appears strange to me. Could you elaborate?
I don't know that yet, but the number of NCOs increased even more for the 1944 division. The NCOs are the backbone of every army and they know how to implement and lead directly, but so far I haven't read anything particular about this topic, but I will definitely cover that topic in the future. After all questions from Subscribers and my own often provide very interesting topics.
Military History Visualized Looking forward to it.
i guess it's because of the high number of vehicles and cannons that would probably have a commander each
NCOs are sergeants and corporals, right? It shouldn't be a surprise that there's a sergeant and corporal in each 8 man squad/section.
The squad size of the motorized infantry was 14, later 12, not 8. Two 3-man machine gun teams, a rifle squad/team and NCO.
The Germans, wisely, invested a lot into their NCO´s - you could say that superior NCO´s is what kept the Wehrmacht capable for the latter third of the war, reducing the effect of the decreased training of the enlisted men (and boys).
This was outstanding!
Hello: I didn't hear any mention of "Luftwaffe liaison officers" for close air support, or for anti-aircraft duties. Maybe that's in part 2? Thank-you.
> "Luftwaffe liaison officers" for close air support
Not 100 % certain, but as the name indicates, he is from the Luftwaffe, so he would not be organic to the division. At least so far I haven't seen a KStN where one was mentioned.
Awesome, love this content!
Great video! I was wondering if you are planning to do a video on a Panzerabteilung (oh god I hope I spelled that right) and perhaps a schwere Panzerabteilungen.
Rommel is back and he has a channel
Hoi4 Players: WRITE THAT DOWN!
Thanks for this video, there is so much 'hear say' and other bollox around on youtube. Its nice to get some facs now and then.
Can you do a video on the company scale version of this? How many men would be in a company of Panzergrenadiers and what they did? (Also were the SS panzergrenadier's set up the same way, or were hey organized different?)
SS motorized were set up the same way although they had StuG III (short barreled) in the Division from the first. Six then 18 then 31. Panzergrenadier SS Divisions 1-3 though set up this way in 1943 converted from motorized infantry divisions (with a 31 StuG battalion) also had a Panzer Regiment (2 BN 3 light (Pz III) and 1 medium (Pz IV) plus 1 Tiger I company, the 31 StuG III, a Panzerjager battalion with 2 Coy Marders and 1 of towed Pak. The six Panzergrenadier battalions had one battalion in 251 and the rest trucks. This was 1943 and these were actually Panzer Divisions. The 1944 SS Panzer Divisions were set up this way with the Panzer BN having one BN of Panzer IV/H and one of Panthers. 5th and 12th SS were set up this way. 9th and 10th were supposed to be but their Panzer IV battalions were half StuG III/G and half Pz IV/H and one of them arrived back in Normandy without its Panther battalion. The Panzerjager in 12th SS were Panzerjager IV/L48 by '44. 1st and 2nd SS lost their Tigers but 3rd SS kept theirs. 12th and 1st SS were made SS Panzer Korps I with a Nebelwerfer BN and Tiger BN 101 as Corps troops. SS Panzer Korps II with a Nebelwerfer BN and Tiger BN 102 was formed in '44. SS Panzer Korps III with Tiger BN 503 (SS 101 became SS 501 and SS 102 became SS 502 before Dec 16 '44) was formed in 1945 I think. 5th SS Panzer and FHH Panzer Division I think.
Osprey has excellent books on the Panzer Divisions 1939-1940, 1941-1943, and 1944-45 as well as the Panzergrenadier Divisions.
Can you do the Panzer-Lehr-Division??? Maybe even go over what they specifically used
Military history: shows chart and explains everything
Me:
*despair*
Of course it is just numbers, but over 16k soldiers in a division feels quite cumbersome organization.
Bane: for you maybe.
Joking aside, you might have a point there. I know some post-war writings that agree, but I don't know if the guy was hyper-critical or not.
Are there any sites that show the organization on EVERY level up to division? Like starting with squads, then platoons, companies, etc. for all the unit types in a division.
if you read the Forgotten Soldier he was in a motorized regiment but after 1944 they no longer had trucks so they marched everywhere....
Germany's divisions consisted of 9k men more or less during the latter part of WW2. They just didn't have enough men, after Russia started to grind them down.
MHV, Do you know anything about the equipment-history of the following wehrmacht divisions:
- 3. Infanterie-Division (mot.): 3. ID was rebuild after france with captured vehicles to a motorised division.
- 10. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Sent to germany in fall 40 to be rebuild into a mot division with german equipment.
- 14. Infanterie Division (mot.): Rebuild into a mot division after france; most likely rebuild with german equipment.
- 16. Infanterie-Division (mot.): The 16. ID was split after France: half div was used to form the 16. PzDiv. and the other half to build the 16. ID (mot.).
- 18. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild after France. No details about equipment sources.
- 25. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild after France. No details about equipment sources.
- 36. Infanterie-Division (mot.): Rebuild into a mot division after france; most likely rebuild with french equipment.
- 60. Infanterie-Division (mot.): rebuild started before the division saw combat in France. Most likely german equipment.
Good stuff man
you should do one on doing paper work and getting the mail up to the front.
very interesting, when will you discuss tactics?
Wait so what happened in 1945? Did Germany just dump the Panzergrenadier formation completely? Then where were those grenadiers allotted to? Incorporated into Panzer-Divisions? Or assigned to Volksgrenadier-Divisions?
yeah, not sure if it was in 1945, but the formation name was "Panzer-Division 45".
The Kriegsgliederung for the Panzer Division 45 was adopted in March 1945, the PzGr divisions were supposed to adopt this new gliederung but it's effect so late in the war is debatable, e.g. the 25th PzGr division in March and April was still organized under the Gliederung for a 1944 PzGr division, and the I.Batt of PzGr Regt 119 was still armoured(Gepanzerte). On the 2nd April 1945 due to losses it was ordered to re-organize using the Panzer Division45 gliederung, but what practical effect this had just 8 weeks before the end of the war is hard to tell without a later Kriegsgliederung to go by, but I haven't seen one and they may not exist. Also bear in mind that the adoption of new Kriegsgliderung was not an automatic process when a new one was issued, all divisions whether they were infantry, panzer, pzgr etc only changed to a new gliederung when ordered to, which is why throughout the war you will find the same type of division e.g. panzer divisions operating at the same time but with different organizations. .
Malcolm Hunt well, sounds like a bureaucratic administrative nightmare.
Very informative!
Can you help me find my grandads information please. He was in 16th inf then 16motorised inf. he died in Stalingrad. Herman Munchhausen. Yes that is his real name. He was a funker with 2 stripes on his arm. Please please help me coz I can’t speak German anymore
You should be aware that there would be plenty of deviations to your PzGr outline, as there would any division in the German army. The 25th PzGr division on the 1st April 1945 was authorized to have, 484 officers, 0 Beamten(civilian officials), 2940 NCO's, 11721 men and 0 Hiwi's. In terms of AFV's it was authorized to have 50 Sturmgeschutz, 8 PzKpfw III and 46 PzKpfw V Panther's, but it also had 4 PzKpfw IV's even though they weren't authorized. The Sturmgeshutz were a mixture of 30 x StuG III and 20 StuG IV's. It's difficult to know how many armoured halftracks it had(Sdkfz 251's etc) as on the Zustandberichte it doesn't list individual vehicle types, although it must have been authorized several as the I./Batt PzGr Regt 119 was still an Gepanzerte(Armoured) battalion, the Stab(staff) of the PzGr Regt 119 was armoured as was one Kompanie of the Pioniere Battalion.
Good content keep going bruhh
Hi, can you do specialized units like Grossdeutschland? And why you focus in PzGren Div 44 if it was only used for a short time as you say? you should have explained the type 43 more and not just the number of weapons and men but how where they organized in companies, platoons, squads.
This is an excellent series. The information is great. I am an avid war gamer and model builder. Could you give detailed information on the TO&E of a Armored Artillery Regiment assigned to panzer divisions, for the latter war years? I am mostly interested in the Observation unit. For example: How many PZ Beob Wg Panther V tanks were assigned ? How many SP guns per battery, were there communications vehicles with each battery? Thank you in advance!
thank you, well, my organization videos aren't really so successful sadly, but I have two approaches that will bring them back a bit more. About the Observation unit, not sure if I have enough data on it, personally I would be also interested in taking a closer look, but first I got to pay the bills. Hopefully there is something in the Field Artillery book from Bailey(?) or there is something useful in US Field Manual, not sure there is a "Reibert" on this.
You might check The Handbook of the German Armored Forces (Indiana university press) for detailed organization data. This reprinted collection of wartime intelligence updates and familiarisations well chronicles the evolution of the Panzeraffe in equipment, training, organization, employment, and over time.
It's pretty hard to find statistics of motorized infantry divisions in certain period, for instance early 1944. Then it's difficult to find numbers how much these units actually had tank destroyers and assault guns. I doubt did many of motorized infantry divisions have 31 tank destroyers and 42 assault guns. More likely they had hardly more than half of those numbers even if counting those in work shops.
Did the Panzer-Grenadier Divisions remain close or the same between 1941-1943?
Very Informative video ; the Wermacht was a model of military and war execution ; no wonder they were the strongest in Europe and could take on the American ,Australian and Canadian armies !
Your german spelling sounds like you are a German yourself. If so you should do a second channel on german..would be a nice gift for the channels over here. Greetings from Mannheim. :)
Fucko Yourselfo He's Austrian.
Liked the video before it even started! 😉👍👌👏
were the SPWs upgunned with weapons such as the PzB 41, 37mm pak and 75mm added to panzergrenadier regiments or to special abteilungen of the division?
I have a question maybe you can help with, I am building 1/35 scale German Panzergrenadier Company the picture included with model says indicates the HQ Company had 2 Sd.Kfz 250, a BMW motorcycle with side car and 3 zundapp motorcycles. The company has 4 platoons the first 3 are the same the platoon leader 251/10 followed by 3 251/1’s. The last platoon named the heavy armored platoon consist of 1 Sd.kfz 251/3, 2 Sd.Kfz 251/2, and 2 of the 251/1 sporting heavy machine M.G I know by the picture it’s not your typical M.G.42 or 34.
So could you shed some light on what the other heavy M.G. Might be, and the Sd.Kfz 250’s for the HQ would those be the 250/3 radio cars? Any insight would be helpful
such a detailed question is likely even too much for my Oberst supporters: patreon.com/mhv
HQ were more likely a 250/1 and a 251/3 (radio vehicle) or a 251/1 and 251/3. The 251/3 in the heavy weapons allowed it to be used as an artillery fire direction center for the mortars in the 251/2. Later 2 x 251/9 with 75L24 (the early Mark IV tank guns) were added and they could also be directed in indirect fire although they usually were used as infantry gun support firing direct. The 251/1 heavy machinegun half-tracks are 251/1s. The "s" is for heavy (in German). They had a special mount on them, no MG shield and also carried a second MG34 team with a MG34. They carried two tripods, one for each machinegun so dismounted you get two heavy (WWII term - Medium MG in modern terminology) teams from each half-track. The special mount allowed one of the MG34 from the HMG teams to be mounted on the half-track used as a HMG (modern MMG) from the half-track. The standard MG34 mount behind a gun shield at the front of the passenger compartment was equivalent to a LMG mount. The 251/1s did not have one of these.
Which unit control the trucks carrying the Grenadiers? I don't see a truck company at divisional level.
the trucks are part of the infantry / rifleman company.
Very good work !
Clear and nice use of cognitive tools (colors & icons)
Useful to me as I'm creating a board game about WW2.
I have a question :
There seems to be an official distinction between Assault Guns and Tank Destroyers in the terminology.
But as Stug III ausf G were mostly built and not that many StuH 42, were the Stug III both used as AG and TD in reality ?
I mean most of the time.
Thank you
yeah, one could say an assault gun was often also used as a tank destroyer, whereas a tank destroyer was more dedicated. Also in case of Germany, the assault guns were party of the artillery branch namely the assault artillery and not the tank branch. The StuH was the implies was an assault howitzer. You can find more information for that in my video about the assault artillery btw: ruclips.net/video/tFXZcC1xZnI/видео.html
"StuG Life". Good one, man.
that Iron Maiden reference though
yeah, I even used the British spelling.
Hallo Herr Kast, wäre es möglich eine aktuelle PzDiv (bspw. PzDiv 1) der BRD mit der PzDiv 45 der WM zu vergleichen? Danke!
wasnt it easier to type actual numbers under everything much more clearer to see :)
Will you make video of designing divisions in HOI IV? Cause when I look on your video "Panzergrenadier-Division & Motorized Infantry Division 1939/1944" I have problem to ... well to copy that pattern into HOI IV division designer.
12:13 He addresses this.
Did Panzergrenadiers wear different color uniforms than the standard infantry? I ask because I paint 1/35 figures and might get Panzergrenadiers and would like to know hot to paint them.
So the Artillery observer unit was moved to Army Command. Does that mean the 4th Army for example would have an artillery observer unit attached to it's command battalion?
so far I need to look into how this army unit (Heerestruppe) system really worked. As far as I know it was in a pool and got allocated to divisions if needed.
Why did they have so many motorcycles in 1939? They don't seem to be terribly useful in combat to me. What role were they supposed to fill?
They were used for fast transportation, usually for recon units, and were often fitted with Machingewehrs on the sidecar. But that is just from my knowledge, wait for someone more educated to answer.
In 1939 recon was a thing that was need . up until ww1 and machineguns everywhere...this was done by horse mounted cavalry.
Horses and automatic weapons dont mix sooo they are now (in 1939) used to tow artillery and supply wagons.
But that recon and communications still needs to be done by something faster than men on foot or bicycle. (also radios werent Everywhere yet)
So motorized bicycles are the obvious answer.
Given the economic restraints of germany ... motorcycles are cheaper to make, maintain, and easier to field, than trucks.
So there they are every where. side cars and all.
In reality it was quickly determined that motorcycles of the period were not in point of fact the "mechanical horses that could go anywhere horses do but smaller and faster" in actuality their mobility was entirely dependent on the quality of the roads they traveled.
No road, no quality.
dirt tracks.. good enough as long as it is in fact a dirt track and not mud.
Cobblestone streets ideal for horse and wagon? = bad
Railroad tracks = just as bad
Sand? = just Nope.
Thus the invention of Kettenkrad.
unfortunately, tracks are a bitch to repair away from a motor pool. And Recon units spend the bulk of their time far away from the motorpool. thus why so few of them exist. epsecially as radios become everywhere the germans can have them. (see the addition of a signals battalion)
So in the end they were just phased out.
MInd you if they had the where withal and capacity to make something like the motocross off road bikes of today
with incredibly strong AND durable suspensions
(Your average modern motocross bike has as much as 5x the suspension strength of a regular full sized street bike with as little as 1/4 the over all weight).
with anywhere from 50 to 200 horsepower lightweight engines (something not even normal sized vehicles had at 1939),
specialized off road tires (that suffer on actual roads just because) on a vehicle that one person can push down the road if they had to or just throw in the back of a wagon/truck.
... it could have been much different.
Imagine Poland equipping some detached cavalry troops of Hussars (because why not?)Becoming practiced at asymmetrical warfare (in this case focused on Being where enemy logistics Are and where enemy machine guns Are Not) mounted on dirt bikes with a few trucks for carrying (in order of importance): a means of wireless communications, extra fuel, spare parts, water, bullets+bombs, and food.
With Horse units following the same doctrine. Only being slower, easier to hide, even more "off Road' and lasting longer in a campaign because they are not reliant on resupply of fuel and parts. (if necessary stealing enemy resources like horses, water, fodder, food and munitions to continue operations and maybe enemy trucks and fuel)
All roving about in the Central Europe country side. (A place that has favored fast moving cavalry since the dawn of war) with pistols, SMG's, fire bombs and grenades and later on the occasional Bazooka/Panzerfaust) like something out of a Mad Max movie. 0.0
(so yeah there will be that one guy that wants to drive faster/closer so he can hit them with his sword/lance )
While we are imagining made up never happened things ...
suppose facist and communist flavors of Hungarians, Cossacks and maybe even Finns(have you SEEN what they do with home built rally cars?its practically a national pastime) ; knowing a 'good' idea to steal when they see one, all on DirtBikes running all over everyones rear areas in the eastern front.
.
I am not sure if anyone else’s feels this way, but I am so freaking confused by all this. Organization of The division that it’s making my head spin a bit.
How am I suppose to write a fantasy war novel if I don’t understand the basic formation of the units :(
it is easier after you have done like 10-20 of these videos ;)
Military History Visualized Holy cow, I got a reply from one of my favorite RUclipsr’s! Thank you so much! You made my day a lot better! 😊😁.
I guess I will have to just keep chugging along and learning what I can understand, one piece at time! Wish me luck! 🍀
ideally check out the organization playlist, since I haven't done an organization video for ages. Most of them date back to 2016. The why 512(?) men for a howitzer / field gun is for a smaller unit, also there is another one for an infantry battalion as well.
Military History Visualized Thank you! I shall go check them out 😁
I recall hearing that the StuGs in panzer grenadier divisions had to stagger their withdraws for reloading ammo because it may shatter the grenadier's moral.
Dont forget Many of those infantry squads/platoons didnt always get to the battle on their own truck but rather just hitched a ride sitting on top of their attached StuG (weather/enemy action permitting) And StuG operators didnt mind at all. having some Infantry near by to keep enemy infatry from getting to close with antitank weapons is a good thing.
When your unit may end up moving 40 km a day on demand you would get nervous too if your only ride says
"i gotta go get more ammo. Dont worry ill be right back..."
Where do you find the primary sources for information of World War II Military Tactics? So far I have only been able to find Secondary Sources.
I've a question, this 1939 layout would be the one used by the 4 motorized division Germany had by the start of the war, yes? Well, Niehorster has listed manpower and equipment according to the 39/40 mobilization plan here niehorster.org/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_lt-01.html (That's the 1. leichte for an example). What I'm wondering is, why do the numbers vary so much between sources? For instance, you mention that the 39 mot. div. had only 31 SMG's, whereas according to Niehorster the division would have had an average of 198 (I calculated the average between the 4 divisions) SMG's. Who should I trust here if I intend to find out the actual strength of the average motorized division on field by the start of the war?
Cheers for the video, never imagined there'd be a source to contradict Niehorster!
a light division is NOT a motorized division... wait what? Why bring you in the Leichte Division, when it is not about it at all?
Please reformulate your question to exactly what the problem is, because I have no time for second guessing what you actually meant.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Ah shit, for some reason I was under the impression that a leichte division meant a motorized division. My bad, now the sources are matching, sorry for wasting your time.
no worries. Yeah, leichte Divisions are a bit of an annoyance and can be confusing. Usually people count them as Panzer divisions. This would also make sense, since the SMGs were often used in Panzers if I remember correctly.
WTF is a KettenKrader? Half track motor cycle? Can you do an episode on that thing??
HK Zero made originally for paratroopers, then used mostly in the harsh terrain of the eastern front.
Are you gonna do a video on Tiger tanks in the German military? I.e. how they were deployed or how many were used in Divisions etc. Tigers are my favorite thing about ww2 Germany!
yes.
Missed Division Staff which is quite interesting.
pretty sure I didn't miss it, but it has been a while. It is one of the many miscellaneous units, clearly the most important, but still in terms of overall material and manpower not that important.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized
Naja Feldgendamerie, Divisions Begleit Kompanie (oder anderer Name/Gliederung) und Kriegsberichterstatter Zug sind ganz interessant, vor allem im Bezug auf heutige Konzepte.
Du hast bei den Kampfeinheiten angefangen und dann mit den Unterstützungseinheiten geendet, wobei alle Bücherquellen die ich kenne mit Divisionsstab anfangen, dann die Kampfeinheiten zeigen und dann Divisionsnachschub, Fuhrpark, Verwaltungstruppe (nicht Führung sondern Verpflegungsamt, Feldpost, Bäckerei, Fleischerei, Feldersatz und zugehörige Schutz- und Transportkompanien)..
Glück Ab!
das geht schon massiv ins Detail, vor allem setzt es voraus das jemand eine Ahnung von einer modernen Division / Brigade hat. Ja, bei einem Buch kann auch keiner wegklicken, sehr viel hier ist halt eine Anpassung zwischen Detail- und Fachwissen, aber trotzdem nicht "zu heftig". Am besten geht leider halt immer cookie cutter content. Der Informationsgehalt von manchen Videos auf RUclips ist meist gering bis sehr gering.
Bäckereikompanie war mal geplant, hab auch ein KTB einer Fleischerei Kompanie gefunden, eventuell wird das auf meinen Zweitkanal mal behandelt: ruclips.net/user/MilitaryHistoryVlogs
Dort hab ich auch mal ein Video zu Taktik, Operation & Strategie gemacht, kaum jemand angesehen :(
Sir, can you, please, clarify something?
It remains unclear were those assault guns Stug-3 and Stug-4 or have they been replaced with more fitting StuH-42, Brummbär and other assault guns.
That's all about classification, because Stug-3 and 4 were classified as sturmgeschutze, though having StuK-40 75mm guns, unlike other assault guns which had howitzers.
stug 3, the tank destroyers were pz4 chassis. StuK 75mm.
+Military History Visualized so, the vast majority of the assault guns were just Stug-3, not the late heavy assault guns?
In reality those Panzergrenadier divisions in 1944 had hardly more than half of assault gun/tank destroyer numbers even before main battles. Total about 35-45. Not 73.
Were all personnel in the infantry regiments combat personnel or were there support personnel for each regiment as well?
Will you do something about military tactics in future?
yeah, already did a small part once. (US Army Inf. Battalion)
+Military History Visualized yeah i know that,that is the first video i saw on your channel.
I assume there will be a tactics or at least defensive position video in the next 2-8 weeks.
+Military History Visualized Cool! Thank you.
do you think the SP ART in HOI 4 represents something closer to the Stugs or something like SP heavy arty such as the Wespe and the like?
More like the Wespe. StuGs are more likely to fall under tank destroyers. Of course, it may depend on the model of SP ART, as light SP ART and heavy SP ART may be very different.
At least the pre-named models you can research in the tech tree have the Wespe as being Light SP ART based on the Pz II, and the StuG III is a Medium Tank Destroyer based on the Pz III.
So...what was that observation batallion actually doing and what kind of equipment did they have. Did they get blimps? ;D
How many trucks were there in a panzergrenadier division 1944?
What was the point of the Heer having a dedicated Anti-aircraft battalion? I thought the Luftwaffe Flak Divisions were meant to provide direct AA support to the front. Seems redundant
short version: Göring was a dick & everybody wants to have his own toys.
haha best short version I've read for a while.
I was in mechanized infantry in Germany.