"Survivor mistakes don't matter." | Dead by Daylight
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Just two interesting games where Survivors made a big enough mistake to help me turn things around. Hope you find it interesting and perhaps helpful to identify the mistakes your own Survivors make. 😊
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Second game was like
Otz: "Alright , this is the mistake that they made in this game."
Me: "Duh , she gave a free hit."
"No , Adam let me see 4 pixels between two rocks of him self healing"
"Ah yes , that."
Otz for real is so observant and assesses situations so well, no wonder he's as good as he is.
Don't forget the analysis in game 1. I honestly don't know how Otz thinks every killer would be able to process that.
@@joeysandoval5269 Honestly that survivor they added with the Artist is legit Otz, 100%, for this exact reason. No other way around it, it's just him.
@RCK they're talking abt jonah vasquez not the crow lady lmao
Otz indignation when he sees the Adam is the icing on the cake.
The greatest mistake you can make as DBD player is not reading Otz's FAQ
Greatest mistake you can make is being a DbD player
i have read all his faq questions and i have evolved to a great human being
GAGAGAGAGAGA! I will now count to 3 and then I am still the unprettiest RUclipsr of all time. 1...2...3. GAGAGAGAGAGA!!! Thank you for your attention, dear dj
Nah it’s more frustrating than noed to go against
@@paintedlantern7248 Hah, good one
I didn't even know this was actually something people believed. I can't tell you how many mistakes survivors have made in my games that legit result the entire team getting shafted.
Depends if it's a SWF and if it's low MMR or not.
@@ReshyShira and efficency on gens as well, Not doing gens immidiatly makes the hole Team loose
I can't tell you how many times I'VE made mistakes that result in the entire team getting shafted
@@ReshyShira what, you're saying mistakes don't exist as long as you're in a swf? Also MMR doesn't matter lmao
@@ReshyShira Dude did you even watch the video?
I didnt even realise Meg was in the locker until you pointed it out and I had thought that their mistake was simply deciding to not split up. Haha
I thought the same thing. Even not splitting up could've screwed them too especially when he popped tier 3. He had 3 instant downs at that point.
Yeah and I thought it was weird how they put up a boon instead of do gens, but I didn't think of this crazy sneaky Head On with friends strategy
16:00
Otz: "I'm sure they will be good sport!"
Survivor: "No."
To be fair, COIE was the Jake who got run down with 3 stack PWYF, and T3 insta downed twice. that was definitively not a good game for him, he had no control over his downs and his teammates got triple downed twice in one match.
Correction: I was mistaken, it's not the Jake.
@@FabricatedModeration Ahah yeah definitly, I don't blame him
@@FabricatedModeration It was Claudette, not Jake. There is only one survivor that had dead hard (as you can see in post-match screen) and exactly one survivor uses dead hard at 5:40
@@XENORT good catch, I'm mistaken. I didn't see anyone use it at all that match so I thought he just didn't have a chance with the insta downs.
“Try to see the mistake right before it happens” *plays Micheal*
Well, he is a snowball Killer, he practically has to.
Michael* try to see that mistake?¿
@@n0ctvrnl thanks 8feetfrompeace, now we can all sleep at night because a simple spelling mistake was corrected.
So its only 49,998 bees left confused.
@@n0ctvrnl Micheal mayers
Otz as killer: makes insane split-second decisions with his incredible deductive reasoning.
Me as killer: 🥔
good basic advice would be keeping track of survivor actions and who is who
basically like the first game, if someone has a perk and they demonstrated it, guess the rest
Nah dude, it all comes from experience, I'm pretty sure otz has over 10000 hours on the game so he's gonna be a god at the game either way. You just need to experience games, lose, and eventually win
Killer mistakes seem much more taxing than survivor mistakes, but survivor mistakes can easily snowball into a major problem.
Only when they're huge mistakes. Killer mistakes is like getting a bad cut get infected, it might not be as noticeable now but you'll feel it later.
Survivor mistakes are either so small they're negligible, or... David runs into basement Bubba and thinks BT will save me from chainsaw.
well yeah, you're playing against 4 people, so your mistakes should be approximately 4x more taxing.
Even the snowball is normally linked to huge mistakes and over altruism. Not the first 1k that turns into a 4k because they want everybody to get out.
there’s also the fact that there are 3 other survivors who can pick up the slack after a surv mistake. the killer has no such luxury.
@@krazysamurai yeah, but there also isn't 3 other idiot killers dragging you down with their huge mistakes.
They fed a myers, grouped up once he was fed, stuck around after friends were downed, and you got two hooks. Also a gen still popped even during all this. Literally horrible brain dead mistakes and they still couldve came back.
In my Honest Opinion the first game is a better example for the premise that survs misstakes matter very little than for the opposite.
3 downs because of the misstakes you already pointed out. This should be a game ending play. But its not and they almost got the last gen done.
With 2 people playing meme stuff and not a single person with good items.
Im sorry but with my games having on average one green or purple medkit and at least 2 deadhard/ds players im not buying Otz argument here
Why wouldnt the gen be done if the 4th person wasnt there? whats so special about it?
One of the worst killers in the game, on one of the absolute most survivor sided maps, using a very average build, and they only got four gens done. Without that mistake it would have been an easy win for them.
@@ItsKlovey yeah people seem to not recognize this. It’s Michael, considered by top players to be the worst killer, on the most survivor sided map. With other killers these mistakes or on different maps would have been even more catastrophic for them.
@@Regenerd this is also arguably the worst killer in the game. that mistake would've been much worse for the survivors with a better killer.
I remember a nemmy game where I saw a Jake self-caring right after being unhooked and I thought bro easy win. So I tunneled the man and went for the pickup but then he DS'd me. I was so confused I watched the clip over and over thinking how the hell did he DS me. That's when it finally clicked, he wasn't self-caring, he was vaccinating. That DS misplay cost me the game, I know a little more about the game everyday.
But that was a misplay on his part not yours. He vaxed right infront of you and you downed him. The perk he brought took that mistake away lmao this playerbase man
Why does vaccinating not count to remove ds?
@@fart63 why does touching the exit gates not remove ds? Because bvhr wants money 4 wallets > 1
@@bumperthumper8641 no it wasn't, it was a mistake on the killers part. The surv mightve even dine it on purpose to get them to tunnel and get hit with ds. This player base man.
@@sonodv1709 making a poor play "on purpose" RE-ENFORCES the idea that "survivor mistakes dont matter", It doesnt disprove it. You get rewarded for standing in front of the killer, getting downed and getting picked up. lmao.
I think the Meg in locker was even easier than looking for scratch marks; the Feng is staring at the locker knowing a killer is behind her, kind of like she just watched someone get in.
For the Artist game: AT LEAST two gens were almost done, based on the sounds, making Otz at the equivalent of two gens when the Adam dies. If you're playing to win you can't not tunnel when given the chance. I don't like tunneling as the DEFAULT thing Killer do, but when given such a huge opening that the Adam gave yes, I'd go for that tunnel as well. But I probably wouldn't have noticed him healing himself at that time so I'd not have tunneled him because of D.S..
Thanks for the video Otz.
This can't even be considered tunneling.
The Adam tried to heal himself 3 meters away from the Hook he got rescued on. And of course if someone gets unhooked, i'm gonna go check that out if i have nothing better to do at the time.
If you get unhooked and don't immidiately bring as much distance between you and said hook as possible, you lose your right to complain about tunneling. Simple as that.
@@CedricBassman I'm a Killer Main so I somewhat agree with you, but this *is* form of tunneling because Dwight was right there and a viable chase target. By choosing to go after Adam instead of Dwight Otz choose to tunnel.
I think it was the right choice, because as you said Adam didn't make distance AND _he_ made the choice to heal himself and show he didn't have D.S..
@@vladspellbinder adam is literally a free kill though by just sitting there healing
what means tunneling for DS? or respecting the ds
@@julianorozco5201 "D.S.", with or without the periods, is short for "Decisive Strike", a Survivor Perk that activates after you have been hooked. For 40/50/60 seconds after coming off the hook if the Killer grabs or picks you up you get a Skill check and if you hit it you stun the Killer and get dropped back into Injured and D.S. is spent, can't be used again. D.S. will also disable if you heal yourself or someone else before the timer is up, but can be enabled again if you are hooked again.
"Tunneling for D.S." means you specifically tunnel someone off hook to remove their D.S. as a factor for later tunneling. Meanwhile "respecting D.S." typically means you slug someone to wait out the timer so they can't stun you OR you don't tunnel them to avoid the Perk all together.
23:37 “You’re just a tunneller” I forgot that capitalizing on errors makes people a toxic player
They’ll call anybody a tunneler. Not my fault you stayed in the area you got unhooked, not my fault you tried to body block me with your BT instead of making distance, not my fault you keep going back to the same gen over and over again. And also not my fault you tried to get your trap off right in front of me. I’m doing my only objective lol. You should be getting away from me, not vise versa.
@@fart63 Also it is not killer's fault when people are chasing into or around the hook. Tunneling and camping for no reason is a mistake/bad play in itself, because 3 people are not pressured at all and can do all the gens, gates with one or two trades at the worst scenario and then escape as 4.
But mostly people camp/tunnel/slug when it is literaly best option to do as response for survivors mistakes. In this scenario it never should be considered "noob killer, can only camp/tunnel/slug, learn how to play". We know that those are powerfull tools to punish mistakes and turn the game around and getting 4k (or 3k + hatch) is just the proof that we know how to play.
First tip of life: Never let your opponent dictate the terms of engagement. They're never going to give you better odds.
I don't get how people still complain about tunnelling when the survivor (Adam) showed Otz he had no chance of having DS from self healing himself. If it was me, I'd tunnel Adam too, it was crucial information. It would make the game 3v1 and much easier for me as killer. I always hear the same old lame excuse "You're not making it fun for the survivor". The killer isn't your friend and they're trying to win. Survivors don't make the game "fun" for killers so why should killers sacrifice a potential early 3v1 just for the sake of "fun". I don't even think they care about how fun the game was, they're just salty that they were tunnelled.
Legit was watching a vod of a TTV squad i was going against the other day when i was killer and after i knocked someone down near a gen they were all saying i'm a "sweaty fuck" for not letting them finish the gen. Like hello? am i just supposed to let you finish the gen with no punishment? lol
Otz: "Watch the survivors lose on just this one mistake"
Also Otz: "Watch this meg make the 325636th mistake this game"
Not to mention the clue was so subtle it'd take someone capable of landing a reverse chainsaw on a quentin hiding in a corner to be able to figure it out on the fly.
Your brag isn't so subtle
@@conniefan123 when did he brag?
@@Denvigen he realizes this is actually one of otz's alts complimenting himself
@@Iead >who's he?
@@conniefan123 that's an old otz reference dearie, not a brag
Individually, each surviver mistake does not matter as much as a killer mistake. But if multiple survivers make mistakes too close together the game can end immediately.
Honestly I have to disagree with even that statement, but it's not entirely wrong. Maybe this is only true with Ranged killers, but with even seemingly small mistakes, one survivor making a mistake can mean the difference between a win and a loss.
Like, running into a wall for a second after getting hit, or commiting to a gen that's almost done but not quite, or being greedy with a pallet, or hell even one dc. Seemingly small mistakes at first, but they add up fast.
If you're smart and a bit lucky, you can turn nearly any mistake into an advantage. If you disagree that's fine, I just wanted to say my piece.
First game is a good showcase for that: Meg showed her perk, then feed T3, then lead Otz to her comrades (who grouped together for whatever reason, which is also a mistake against Myers), then instead of running away they decided to stick near t3 killer to get flashy save, and at the end all of this mess of missplays resulted in 2-3 hooks on different survivors, which is close to nothing. Yeah... I have to disagree with Otz's point here, punishment for this sort of a mess wasn't even close to being fair. And it was done with weak, but punishing killer, good luck doing even that with Ghostface or Clown, and they will get away with single hook stage.
@@jedslinger2679 a dc is a huge "mistake" its a free kill for the killer and now it's a 3v1 and survivors do gens slower
@@darrkhunter96
In Swhishy's tournament Odyssey as Killer vs Awoken as Survivors (so we are speaking top competitive teams) a survivor went down extremely fast near basement on Azarovs. OhTofu, Ralph and Justin immediately called the game basically won for the plague. She got a 4k at 1 gen. This mistake happened about a minute into the game. Survivors definitely can throw games hard, even the really good survivor teams do this.
Edit: Corrected which match it was
@@darrkhunter96 Actually, it proved to be very detrimental to that team. There was a reason that game ended in a 4k. Even one survivor on hook can be detrimental to a survivor team as it pressures them to go for saves and not be on gens, or lose a teammate and make it a 3v1. One survivor on hook guarantees at least 2 not on gens, meaning gen progress was at least halfed. Watching the gameplay, it's clear that it was probably even more than that in this instance. The mistakes the survivors made gave Otz the footing needed to take hold of that game. Hook states aren't everything, just because a survivor doesn't die immediately doesn't mean they don't feel the sting of their mistakes for the rest of the game.
I think the main thing is: when a survivor makes a mistake, its up to the killer to correctly react and capitalize on it. If they can, that is.
That's how mistakes work in general though. Same goes for survivors, and for every other game in existence
Survivors capitalize on every second of the killer's time spent, whereas killers cannot always capitalize on mistakes the survivors make. Doubly so with Dead Hard and friends.
Yes, that's how it works in a multiplayer PvP game? If one side makes a mistake it's up to the other to capitalise it.
@@ReshyShira this is not always true. Ex. A killer checks the wrong gen. That sucks. What if a survivor does a wrong gen and lets the killer 3 gen? She didn't know where every gen on the map was. Frankly, a killer is guaranteed a kill if they want to secure it, and normally this guarantees them a second kill
@@thedoctor5931 the point is, survivors capitalize automatically even if they dont react. Killer is not near? Do gens. Doesnt matter if he is chasing someone (playing right) or checking the wrong gen (making a mistake). You dont know. Doesnt matter. You are capitalizing.
Except on loops, but that goes for both sides.
On that first game, the first mistake that happened was The obssession let you feed your Tier 1 and Almost 90% your tier 2, but yeah, shortly after that it was pretty bad
Yeah, otherwise he wouldnt be 99% when the failed Head-On happened.
plus they let him get 2 pwyf stacks by basically running back towards the killer
6:57 I love how he celebrates while he explains
3:18-4:35
Dropping a like for that Kyoko Kirigiri level of deduction right there. Holy shit that blew my mind.
Otz 2billion iq
A danganronpa reference? You got my upvote sir.
1st game:
Me: Yeah, I see normal game
Otzdarva: So If you remember that 0.0000001s of gameplay which was 10 years ago she had quick&quiet and 3 survivors were going into garage and 1 is missing, so calculating mass of sun multiplying by density of survivors and dividing by density of air in garage it means meg is in locker because she's taking to big breath of air into lungs.
I think the first game showed that the survivors can make a huge mistake and still recover with one unbreakable. They ended up finishing 4 gens still
Yeah they got 4 gens done but that was mostly from neglecting pop/eruption as well as having a 12 hook game
Also it shows that it’s justified that survivors have more second chances perks
The killer has more power can down all survivors that fast so survivor need a chance for the game to be balanced
People that complain about survivors having more second chance perks have literally no idea about balancing
@@Chris-tx8tp do you think ds and unbreakable it's fair? Insta heals, dead hards, bt, all of this is abusive, do you think it's ok to need 4 hits to down a survivor with dead hard, insta heal and after that getting a ds, a bunch of body blocks, sabo, boil over or a broken flashlight save angle? Excuse me if I was rude, but this is totally idiot
I don’t see what point you’re trying to make by saying ‘they finished 4 gens’ do you want to kill everyone with 5 gens remaining and call that game balanced?
They finished 4 gens and none escaped. That's not a win. They didn't finish any of their objectives completely.
So I am at 1:03 of the vid and I already know what the critical mistakes were:
Getting into a game against Otzdarva
When you paused and explained those 2 seconds for a minute it really was like a detective show.
See as much as I understand your point and even agree with the sentiment, in the first game all the survivors did was repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over, and they still managed to almost finish all the gens. However, if you made 1 mistake and didn’t read that Meg hid in the locker, you would’ve gotten stunned, everyone would’ve ran off without getting hit, and you would’ve had none of the beginning pressure you had. That is what the difference is in my opinion. It’s not that Survivors can make mistakes without repercussions, it’s that Survivors have to make 12 mistakes to equal a Killer’s 1 mistake (to put it dramatically).
depends on the severity of the mistake. think of your survivor solo queue experiences. of course you’ve had teammates who’ve basically thrown the game for the survivors. yes, killer mistakes can be heavily taxing , but those of survivors can too
Big mistake in the first game was also the fact that Meg took way too long to catch on to the fact that you had PWYF. She kept taking unnecessary chases and playing aggressive which gave you a ton of stacks
I want an analysis like this of how he did the reverse chainsaw into the quentin hiding in the corner.
Had a game yesterday where the survivors were clearly better than me. They were outlooping me, taking hits for eachother and still doing gens efficiently. But because they were clearly a swf, i knew they would try to unhook almost immediately. It was also really obvious when they would try to go for flashlightsaves, palletsaves, ds, etc. and because they were predictable, i could still easily 4k, even though they were obviously better than me. A lot of people forget that this game is really snowbally for both sides. If you get some early hooks, 4ks aren't that rare, and if you loop a killer for 1 min straight, at least 2 survivors will likely escape.
Just because they hold the w key hard doesn’t mean they are better it means they are losers
@@imtoxiq_ so they should just walk towards you and give a free hit?
@@gerbenrasing lmao I’m defending you moron
@@imtoxiq_ do you hit survivors when they’re close to you?
@@thanatos4k1 do you breathe to get oxygen
This is a good video displaying how 3 survivor mistakes happening at once is equal to one killer mistake
One mistake as survivor can cost the game tbh. The Meg scrwed the whole team.
2:38
Meg carelessly threw a good pallet and fed the myers, and proceeded to chase him and give him 2 pwyf stacks
My biggest mistake was getting into this game
The first match i did notice a survivor was missing on that time, and probably on that locker, i do pay a lot of attention for missing survivors on tiles and get a lot of free locker grabs that way, but i didnt remember quick and quiet previously, nor did i anticipate a head on. But the second match i was seeing it live, and i remember noticing it right away, because i'm always looking for opportunities to avoid a DS. In general those mistakes were pretty critical, and did allow some snowball and pressure to happen, but the smaller mistakes that could easily lead to snowballs when added up can be turned around by a single perk.
Example: 2 hooked survivors close to each other, you catch the third survivor trying to unhook and decide to slug because you just saw 4th survivor trying to get sneaky while you hook 3rd, so you go after 4 and get taken to a strong-ish tile. You win a mind game, and getting a down or not wont really matter, because survivor 3 picked himself up with unbreakable and unhooked both, one pops instaheal, and the other 2 run away. Suddenly your victory became just pressure because unbreakable allowed it to happen.
Conclusion: Everything is situational, but having a fully controlled match get out of your grasp by a single perk out of 16 doesn't feel fair at all.
So would it be better if unbreakable didn't exist, and the survs played a 5 min game, while getting slugged for 4mins of it. Part of the skill when it comes to playing either side is playing around perks. There would have been no harm in hooking survivors 3 instead of slugging to down surv 4.
@@sonodv1709 would be better if killers and survivors could ban perks before matches begin, but we all know what would always be banned in every lobby, so, unrealistic xp
@@Leyllara that would actually be a cool idea if there were more than 5 good perks for either side
Glad you shouted out the deaf community, I’m fully deaf in both ears but I have cochlear implants but I still have some difficulty hearing in the game, thanks OTZ❤️
That first video is absolutely not just *one* mistake. It was a myriad of mistakes in a single moment. First and foremost they were out in the open against a Myers with tier 3 at the ready. Given how long the match had been this should be obvious. If they camped the initial pallet or just went for a stun right away they could have scattered. Secondly is the obvious Meg in the locker giving 2 free downs instead of 1. Third is the claud not running as soon as the first down occured, she stayed for whatever greedy reason instead of running across the map. This led to yet another free down. This isn't even taking into account that they're still at 4 gens after 4 minutes which is a mistake in itself and shows they aren't doing their objective while not being chased. I appreciate that the "survivors can make 50 mistakes and not be punished" rhetoric is a bit overdone but it is not completely without truth. Here these survivors made a lot of mistakes in one go, however if Claud had simply ran away from the start it could all have been very easily recovered and the pressure overcome.
Don't forget the obsession at the beginning of the game just randomly deciding to give a whole load of free stalk to a Myers, as well as PWYF stacks which is a pretty common perk on Myers being one of his teachables
This is perfectly well put. Otz is cool and all but he can be very misleading. These were brown rank survivors and they still almost had all gens done.
If anything, the first video shows exactly where the "survivors mistakes don't matter" mentality (which nobody believes in the first place) comes from. Even though that should have been game over for them at the start, all pressure Otzdarva had is lost thanks to Unbreakable, a second chance perk which allows the game to carry on. Survivor mistakes do matter, but they are undoubtedly more forgivable. Hence, survivor mistakes don't matter as much as killer mistakes, which is also expected since it's a 4v1. Unfortunately second chance perks tend to make this more noticeable in survivors (not to imply that there's not second chance perks for killers).
100% true
I’ll add after all that, they STILL got gens done which disproves the point
4e = win/4k = loss is how the devs were able to program for MMR because AI can not decipher things the way a human judge can
So just because he killed them doesn’t mean the point was made
They still executed after they stopped trying to meme/bully/perk use by doing what they should have done from the beginning.
To me, then they recovered from multiple mistakes and did well
If it had been 1 mistake and they stopped goofing off at least 2 would have gotten out probably which would mean balance game by the E vs K concept
This was from a few days ago and the highest rank player were silver against someone who has or is approaching mastery
This trend in content creators shows they feel they are running out of content and are starting to become more and more dramatic/inflammatory to move dramatic apocalyptic minded echo chamber users
@@gecko477 I know, right? Multiple mistakes, more than a couple utterly braindead coupled with some excellent deduction leads to Otz getting a game end scenario, largely undone by him simply not being literally prescient (which he marks as a mistake on his part, bizarrely). _And then they kept on fucking up._ And the game still ends at 1 gen remaining.
That flawless managing of information in the first game is insane, Otz. That hard read on the Head On was just so *Chef's kiss*
I'll be straight I didn't even catch that Meg had QnQ the first time she used it. Otz got that superhuman awareness.
As a killer any mistakes you make are usually way worse than a survivor making one, say you miss read a dead hard and it extends a chase for another minute or two that's one more gen
But say a survivor makes a mistake especially early on its not as huge because they have 3 other people to pick up the slack, but if multiple survivors make a mistake near the end it can really flip a game around and give killers a huge advantage so it really just depends on the stage of the game and how many people are injured
If you swing at dh and then chase for several more minutes you have no one to blame but yourself man. Just drop chase and get a hit on someone else.
Making a mistake as survivor early on is huge because you just helped the killer in his hardest phase - the early game. If you get a down and an injured state in the first minute of the match, that is huge. If you then intercept the unhook, the fourth guy has to get the unhook so no one is doing gens while two people are injured, one is on hook and one is coming for the rescue while ruin crashes the gens down to zero.
@@one_vegan_boi1097 your either a survivor main or a low MMR killer but thanks for your input
@@XxWolfxWaRioRxX And you are probably a bubba with noed that only facecamps because he is bad... See, now we both insulted each other with stupid arguments yet we are none the wiser. Doesn't help much, does it? I play about 60/40 survivor killer and I'd say my average kills are between 2-3 but I guess you know me better than I do, my bad.
But tell me how I am wrong please. Am I wrong in saying that chasing for over two minutes is a bad idea?
If a survivor gets grabbed early on (aka makes a mistake) is that not immense pressure all of a sudden for the team?
Just hurling accusations at me makes you look really childish and narrow minded. So try to reason with me instead of acting like a salty 12 y/o kid.
A big issue with DbD is the logic behind perk design. Many of the strongest Survivor perks allow them to recover from a chase/game ending mistake, whereas many of the strongest Killer perks are contingent on them already playing well (win-more perks) or entirely RNG based.
This is the best explanation I've seen. Thank you
thats because killer add ons are already really good, some allow you to see through walls and even one shot people. Also survivor perks aren't chase ending, rarely does a DH or DS end a chase, it just gives you one extra hit, just like some killers get an extra hit by one-shotting people with perks like NOED. As a killer you should just learn to play around those perks.
In the second half otz is using pain resonance/ dead man's switch, aka "lock down the gens for 45 seconds on each hook without cooldown". deadhard sends survivors forwards like 3 meters if that's what made you lose the game then you were already going to lose.
@@eldenlord2798 There are definitely some stupidly powerful add-ons, though they won't necessarily be consistently available like perks, and frankly I'm not a fan of balancing the game around perks and add-ons at all. That's the BHVR school of game design, which they don't even do very well, imo.
@@flamingkittyumad Pop quiz: what are the activation conditions for Dead Hard vs Pain Res/Deadman's?
I really like when Otz does the analysis videos. They really help me see where I can better my own awareness.
Dude that first game they made like 50 mistakes one after another. They absolutely could have come back from that failed headon but not from feeding you stacks, vaulting into you, etc. They did SO much for you.
worst survivor mistake is to become a solo player
Nah, you guys are over exagerating, I play only solo and 1/3 times I get really strong teammates. Sometimes I get potatoes but it's not the majority of time
@@swampraider3488 soloq is by faaaaaar the hardest and most exhausting role in this game
@@Chris-tx8tp Low quality bait, friend
@@swampraider3488 No lmao. Solo Q is the hardest and frustrating thing you can do in this game. I only play killer for that reason, unless I have a survivor challenge to do or something.
@@swampraider3488 my killer matches are 4 times better than my solo queue,i win more when i play with my friend,in solo queue i win like 1 and lose 7 because my team is always potatoes,VERY RARELY i get good teammates
My take is that the survivors mistakes solely depends on the killer, the map, and their teammates, or perks in play. If a survivor messes up and loses a chase early but the survivors are able to pump gens out at the same time, that mistake is negated. You could also miss a swing, and have that chase extended by 30 seconds. The difference is that the killer can’t really negate their mistakes unless they have the perks or is using a certain killer.
I downed a survivor in shack with basement, i was going to hook them on a near scourge hook, but felix decided to sabo it, so i hooked her in the basement. This lead to her and dwight dying, then felix and claud. Only 2 gens got done and i got a 4k, all because they tried to stop me from getting my first hook
Sabo that leads to someone getting hooked in a worse spot is my favorite as killer "oh yeah? Cool.. now you can save them from the 3 gen you created" 🤣
I think killer mistakes are much more severe initially, but survivor mistakes have a potential to get exponentially worse if multiple major mistakes in a row are made
Pretty much. Just yesterday, it all took us two or three mistakes to turn a 0 kills into 3 kills in endgame.
That's the problem "if". Good survivors don't let that happen, when something major happens good survivors slow down and assess the situation carefully, they start to pre drop everything and take no risks, we have to take into account that it's a 4v1 if one dude makes a mistake he has 3 other dudes to cover for him, the killer has nobody and considering most maps have disgusting loop combinations and are as big NYC it's easy to recover from said mistakes as a survivor. Lower tier killers suffer from this even more because of how reliant on the survivors commiting mistakes they are.
@@UPoohto oh yeah, absolutely. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. It's why comp players mostly proxycamp on first hook and try to get a second before all the gens are done, against really good survivors you have to play disgusting
Killer mistakes matter more early game as if you don't have any pressure by the last two generators the game's a wash. Survivor mistakes during the last 1-2 generators matter more as it's the time where people are likely on death hook.
Which for the most part won't happen unless said survivors are not taking the game seriously or are ignorant. A half decent team can get super far with just decent fundamentals, survivor mistakes are the primary cause of losses. Because they control the pace of the game
My favorite Otz game where a survivor made a single mistake that ended the game was a plague game on the winter map. A surv cleansed in the center of the map, immediately reinfected themselves on a gen, then within 20 seconds the entire team was down because of the red puke.
The first game the survivors fucked up so badly that I'm surprised they didn't dc on the spot, and even then, they still did 4 gens.
The second one was an even bigger joke, they just kept giving you free hits and hooks. The mistake wasn't the Adam healing, Adam himself was the mistake, he played so bad the entire game, from the first chase to that point
Is Otz watching the same video back??? Just in that one interaction, none of the three decide to drop pallet, Meg fails to head on, Feng panics and cant decide if they want to go down in front of the locker, or just loop around it, claud is a blind fool. Then throughout the game we see survs blindly vaulting off buildings, rarely looking where they are going in general. There was no single mistake, it was groups of mistakes. Despite all of this, they fought their way back to completing the 4th gen with 4 still alive. But despite ALL of that, arguably the worst part, is that they werent even really using second chance perks... there was one DH and two DS. No crazy items, hell almost no items at all. 2 people used HEAD ON, as their exhaustion perk... a perk often considered a meme above anything else. So here we have a bunch of survivors, with essentially no second chance buffs, playing very casually, still getting a great player like OTZ to the last gen. This is suppose to demonstrate what exactly??? All Im seeing is how much more relaxed survivors get to play. I wouldnt care, but this is a universally accepted aspect of the game, which Otz is trying to refute. If you want to bring evidence to refute a point, that is fine, go for it. But when your evidence doesn't support your claim, and you still want to take a contrarian stance, its just very hard to take it seriously...
This game is a butterfly effect, if your mouse is 1 cm of target it can cost you the match, but if you hit it it can win you the match, mistakes are incredibly punishing for both sides and if you say that they don't matter, you're making more mistakes than the other side
Otz - "Survivors mistakes can cost them the game"
Survivors - *Committing dozen of game-ending mistakes and game still lasting a long time so they can make even more game-ending mistakes as well as finishing 4 gens*
Basically, he kinda proved the point he was trying to disprove.
Absolutely agree with this. I can't count how many times I've been down to one gen as killer and a single mistake threw the match into my favor, leading to a 3 or 4k. Never give up, even when the doors are open!
Bro the jake in that first game was just happy doing his own thing lol
While I understand the point of the video, and it provides some great examples, a more accurate statement would be "Survivor mistakes don't matter -as much-." Big mistakes can definitely change the momentum of the game, but survivors have a lot of tools to correct their mistakes, and unless the game is pretty much over, other teammates to cover for their mistakes.
Unfortunately, as killer all of your mistakes matter. If you make an error, there's no way to cover for it, and you have to hope that you can make up for it later in the match, or that a survivor will slip up somewhere.
Hmmm about that first game, a single perk, unbreakable, literally put back the entire team into the game, after that they just made the massive mistake of not being efficient on gens, so it’s not that one first mistake at the start, I still think that killers do not have the possibility to make mistakes against actual good players.
The mistake cost they some hooks, killers can make mistakes, but not for too long. And depend of the level of mistake, if it chase a health guy on the best part of the map for like, more 45 seconds than usual, ou like a ok mistake, like forgeting dh, ds or unbreakable. If the survivors are good, they can make mistakes for their advantage, but that mean the team has to be good. And the killer as well.
4:15 I can pick up what’s happening here, thing is I needed to rewind a few times, but the fact that you can actively process this AS your playing in real time is absolutely astonishing.
There were plenty of mistakes along the game, it wasn't one that doomed them all. I would even say that the first mistake wasn't even a mistake, just a good play by otz
Eh, I'd say it was a mistake - they already showed to the killer they have quick and quiet, ran into a building with only two other exits, and stayed in the locker as the other two ran out.
If you were skilled enough/pay attention enough to the perks that you saw that, you would immediately recognize the Q&Q + Head-On build.
The *real* mistake was her falling for the bait and exiting the locker too early
I'm loving the notes at the bottom of the screen, thank you otz for this great video!
New players make one mistake in this game:
*Entity Displeased/Sacrificed*
Old Players: *I’m just getting started.*
Nice picking up on that quick and quiet! And spotting the healing Adam too!
The first game literally disproves your point, the survivors made a bunch of mistakes and still got 4 gens done, that just goes to show that survivors can make as many mistakes as they want and due to second-chance perks they can just recover from them immediately
Survivor mistakes pretty much made my unwinnable pinhead games to easy 4Ks, like making the oblivious survivor solving the box, or not solving the box at all. I'd say it's pretty even when it comes to killer mistakes and survivor mistakes (the game is already favored to the survivors in the first place anyways)
It's even more frustrating nowadays because I win 2 matches against baby survivors and the game is like "throw fucking ayrun on the other team"
Came back to the game after a busy month, played five matches against baby survivors, then got a match against red ranks while being ash. I don't even
Yeah it's a really dumb system, it leaves you in a loop of "play bad survivors, oh you did good? Play the top players in the whole game doing a sweaty swf"
That Meg going for head ons and not knowing how long it takes saved many of your stacks of PWYF.
Idk why it was so funny to me when Otz said “this is Adam” and it’s just a rock lmao
I love how the first game had just some Jake that was vibing the entire time
I'm legally blind & play DbD largely by sound. Chases are hard but I manage by sound, though I struggle finding survivors- though often this works to my advantage because survivors get cocky & start playing more recklessly. I manage to win most of my killer games because of this even though 1 gen sometimes pops before I find someone.
I love that DbD lets you compensate for disabilities with perks or killer abilities. For all its problems, this is a brilliant aspect of their game design that I don't see in many other games.
the thing is though that you shouldn't have to use up a perk slot to make up for your disability (stridor, bloodhound, etc) and accessibility settings should be baseline
Yeah before the video even starts, I don't know where anyone gets the idea survivor mistakes don't matter, almost every single game I won I can pinpoint the exact mistakes that lead up to my victory and those aren't just "this survivor went down". Although I agree that survivor mistakes are, simply by nature of the asymmetrical game play style and because of dead hard, far less impactful, they matter a ton, especially egregious ones.
I mean the math is theoretically simple. Each survivor is 1/4th of your team. Each killer is 1/1 of their team. Each mistake is a 100% mistake for a killer, while each survivor mistake is really a division of 4. This means that a good squad of three will only be 75% effective with a sandbag teammate, while a solid killer will get the full 100%. A sandbag killer is a 100% decrease. So survs can be let down by awful teammates in the long term, but typically don't fail due to a single mistake. Where as a single mistake on killer can lead to a pretty nasty snowball in certain situations.
For example, I was blight the other day and technically winning my game. Downed a girl next to a locker and picked her up. My character literally slid animated to open the locker instead of picking her up. I freaked out and took her to the scourge hook right next to us, and during the animation of hooking her both gens I was pressuring popped. I didn't get any scourge value. HUGEEEEE mistake on my part. I went from a winning 3/2 gen situation to a 1 gen situation. All because of a friggin crap locker animation. She wasn't even in front of it! I hated myself and I know I would have stopped the scourged gen if I had gotten that 15% reduction. Such a small thing yet such a big deal.
Another small mistake. I was legit behind someone getting a hook save. I smacked and could have sworn that I hit them. As I was following I realized they weren't injured. How? Apparently DBD logic said I hit the unhooked body instead. LOL this lead to them getting to a very safe location and yeah. Huge misplay. And I wasn't even looking at the body either which is the worst part. But instead of getting a hook trade I wind up in a stupid chase that I shouldn't have been in at all. One mistake cascaded real hard.
I've made survivor mistakes. Missed dead hards all kinds of bad plays. But I never felt like the game's momentum truly shifted as a result, except in the cases of a face camping bubba. Then yeah I guess those ones really suck because you're just dead.
This video really shows how much more I have to learn about playing killer, Otzdarva really is a great help in this community
As much as I respect Otzdarva and his opinion - and am grateful for him actually practicing what he preaches by showing us counterexamples - not all DbD players have a scouter-crashing* number of hours played with DbD and the game-sense/awareness/skill that comes with it.
*Over 9000
Just remember that because a killer is one of the weakest, it doesn't necessarily mean he's weak. Love me some Myers gameplay.
Not that I agree with survivors mistakes not affecting the game but at 5:56 you say it yourself that since she had unbreakable it worked out for the survivors, which is what I think those killers are complaining about.
That's why those kind of perks exist though. It is as ridicilous as saying Pop or Corrupt fix killer's mistake, as if killer letting some gen progress is a mistake.
Same thing applies here: for Unbreakble to fix a mistake, a mistake has to happen and it is pretty unreasonable to think getting downed is a mistake as it is pretty much impossible for survivors not to go down entire match.
I think it really depends. When the game is really close one small survivor mistake can lose the whole game, but even if the killer is winning pretty convincingly, the tiniest of mistakes can and will bite you in the ass in a matter of time. I've lost far too many "won" games because I just barely missed a Lethal Rush around a strong pallet and handed them a good 20-30 seconds for free. I don't really know what the answer is, but it feels like winning against good squads usually relies upon the survivors making a lot of minute mistakes and the killer playing as perfectly as they can possibly muster.
At the same time if you really think like this then even really good comp team survivors make a lot of minute mistakes and the killers all play perfectly. If that is so then survivor is a lot harder to play which kind of makes it okay that they are stronger when played correctly, does it not?
I wouldn't say "it doesn't matter", but damn it is way less severe than a Killer mistake.
Otz’s little celebration here was so cute lol 6:59
I absolutely love Play With Your Food. It's particularly good on Plague and also Pinhead whose specials do not cost tokens on hit.
Is that so? :D heheheh ty for this info. I fell in love with PWYF while trying to get Evil Incarnate, but couldn’t find much value to it with other killers..except for the ones you just mentioned of course!
I like that one guy in the chat, clearly there to be a troll. They say "hard tunnel noob". Also, clearly a person who does not play the full game.
So, watching that first game, the point of 'Survivor Mistakes Don't Matter' was actually kind of proven. Because they didn't just make that one catastrophic mistake. They made three. It was all three of them running together and getting caught out, the Meg getting baited and downed, and the Claudette not paying attention while you were in T3, all stacked on top of one another. And despite that. DESPITE THOSE GAME ENDING MISTAKES. It did not matter. You got one hook and a handful of injures on three Survivors because one person had Unbreakable. One Perk. On ONE survivor, was all it took to reverse that series of mistakes that should have ended the game, and the fact that they lost despite that suggests that these survivors might just be bad.
meds schizo 💊
@@MaliciousSeaChicken wtf? xD
Your point makes no sense?? so we should remove unbreakable so killer can freely down everyone and slug ??? Killer know that there is a possibility of unb and going for down is a risk.
@@winter3040 That was a weird interpretation of my comment Mister Strawman, lol. Can you do me a favor? Go back, reread my comment, and maybe quote me the part where I said we should remove Unbreakable? That would be a neat trick since I didn't say that. I wasn't saying remove anything, I was saying that the opposite of Otz's point was proven by the video, that's all. The problems with DBD are not the perks, they're the core mechanics of the game. Removing Unbreakable wouldn't help.
@@winter3040 kinda wack that they have to play around a perk that may or may not be in the lobby.
The thing is when I play SWF we almost always try to get people off the hook regardless of how low our odds are and killers then shit talk like we “suck” or “threw it for our team”, but we’re all just laughing because we’d rather try and fail then just leave and not know if we could of pulled it off.
Yep, it's why Otz and others say Altruism is the biggest weakness of the SWF, though a SWF that's in it to win it knows how to let someone stay on hook.
I feel like for me mistakes don't win or lose games but gain or lose pressure. If a survivor messes up they gain pressure and if a killer messes up they will lose pressure. So a survivor mistake might get you a hit or a down or if there are other survivors nearby and they make a mistake as well, you'll get multiple downs. But once that pressure is lost you have to keep playing all thats left is the amount of hooks you get. Making mistakes as killer will lose you pressure or make it so you never really gain pressure. That being said I think killer mistakes do mean more than survivor mistakes (4v1) but I think it is easier to recover for killer and a its easier for a survivor mistake to lose a game at any point.
i think otz is correct about killer mistakes, 1 killer mistake really does not matter in the long run. its just when that mistake is made. if it was early game where most killers have no gen pressure then that would be more severe then if 1 guy was dead and like 2 gens left. obviously there is corrupt to give killers a bit of time in the early game but it still does feel very taxing to swing at a window that survivors arent at or get 360'ed, something like that.
While yes i agree with it being a bit ridiculous to believe survivors can make as many mistakes as they want and be fine, I have genuinely had killers game where I lost because of one stupid mistake I did.
Whether it be feeling bad and giving a dead on hook survivor another chance, missing a lunge that would have otherwise been a down. Or messing up making it to the closest hook.
These small mistakes can no doubt largely tip the game in the survivors favor. I had a blight game that I worked super hard on, I'm not a good blight but I still did my best, I had 8 hooks everyone was injured and there was one gen left.
I chased an injured guy but missed my rush lunge just barely, he got to a pallet,chase took to long at that point, gates got done, and I got a 1 or 0k instead of a 2 or 4 k.
So yes while it is silly to think every time a killer makes one mistake they lose, it does sometimes happen if its at an inconvenient time.
And survivors are allowed to make a few more mistakes than killers because its only 25% as bad as a killer mistake. Does that mean survivors can make an infinite amount of mistakes and be fine? No it doesn't, just means they are able to recover easier.
Really Otz.... "this survivors lost because they made just 1 mistake."
Cut to meg give free tier 3 for nothing. There are countless survivor mistakes in this video.
gave him tier 3 by standing at the pallet. Ran back into the killer to give him more pwyf stacks are also mistakes they did leading up to that head on play.
The game made me make one mistake by triggering a locker instead of a window vault out of shack after a basement save and that ONE mistake got everyone killed. Because that was the one locker where Meg was hiding, the other person I rescued was healing outside, and the last person didn't stand a chance. One mistake really can screw up an entire game for either side, not just killer.
1st game: otz big brain 3 downs
Results in only one hook
Yeah I think that one is less “one mistake lead to snowball” but more like “3 survivors did a series of mistakes yet still bailed out by perks”
Otz: Do they appreciate it?
COIE: No
Meg also fed Mike, I swear survivors who swear they are god tier and end up getting the whole team screwed
I feel like the first video undermines its own point. The Meg made a series of disastrous mistakes (fed you Tier 3, gave two stacks of PWYF, failed head-on-play) and the team made a big mistake by grouping up together against Myers, yet they got out of a GG-class situation with only two hooks thanks to the Unbreakable play. If they were a good team that just happened to goof up instead of a bunch of Megs, that mistake could easily have been overcome.
I've made the smallest mistake of just getting down on no hooks. It ended up being a game-changer for the killer.
I remember playing against a trapper, after the first survivor was hooked, all of us was able to see him set up traps near the hook because of kindred, but two of the survivors still got trapped even though they saw him set it up. We lost at 4 gens vs that trapper
At high mmr the game is controlled by good survivors, and for most killers to win the survivors must make mistakes. This goes doubly so for killers with no anti-loop capabilities.
So a game I had that kind of proved this point for me, I was playing Nemesis and getting stomped, my Hexes were cleansed, they had boon totems, genrushing me to all hell but I had a Leon injured and managed to down him away from the gates on Ormond. team comes over and I grab the first girl off of a save from Leon, hit the second 2 times while she's saving, hooked her, chased the Leon, got a down, and managed to finish with a 3k last survivor gone at gate.
Survivors can make a lot of mistakes but the mistakes you showed are crucial mistakes where they messed up so bad that it’s impossible to comeback
I also feel like survivor mistakes are much worse without the perks to properly recover from them. That first game could have ended right then and there if Otz hooked Meg and found Jake, but because that one Meg had unbreakable, they managed to survive with only two hooks. Granted, three are injured. I'd say that survivor mistakes matter, but survivors have more perks that reverse mistakes than killers do. (The only ones coming to mind are Ruin, tinkerer, and NOED, but I very well could be wrong and missed some)
i've played a little too much chess recently, so every time i saw a mistake there an orange "??" poped in my head
I've never noticed but the aura of the crows for the artist are just crows T-posing
Survivors with balance landing: ...
Survivors without balance landing: Weeeeeeeeeeee
Hey otz hope u hade a good week and i hope ur next one is going to be even better just wanted to say thx couze watching ur killer videos made a way better killer as befor of course its also the play time and epirience that made me good but i learned all the tricks from u so yh thank u and have a nice day
otz i swear ur analysis on the game makes u one of the best do ever play it. i wouldn’t have noticed this while i was playin that the meg went in the locker cheers friend
Ozt: noticed before that Meg had Quick & Quiet. Then 3 survivors ran together into garage. With Clau on right, Feng on left but there is no scratch mark => Meg must have Head on hiding in the locker.
Me: forgot killer had Undying and die trying to cleanse dull totem for Inner strength
there were few games where we genrushed the killer into 2 gens and the killer legit turn the table around with just one mistake of a survivor.
One of us thought the door isnt kicked in and it cost him the hook stage, and from that point onward he stalled the game long enough for him to keep up since weve burned all the pallets.
This is why I never understand why people leave mid game. I’ve had matches that are mistake riddled but recoverable. Once someone leaves, it’s practically game over but, remarkably, can still be won if y’all are good enough and the killer doesn’t/can’t hard punish it.
I think whether or not you're up against a SWF can really multiply the effects of killer mistakes. Fucking up once against solo's might mean it takes a while longer to get a hook and turn a 4k to a 3k. Fucking up against a 4-man SWF might mean losing 2 gens back to back and everyone escaping.