@@IRGeamer my point is pretty simple; you can believe whatever superstitious nonsense you want, but you don't own me no matter how wild your imagination may be.
Here in Europe we just need to fund public education more and stop respecting religions "just 'cause". That is all. No educated population in the world has extremists, except for a few deranged individuals.
4 года назад
@Attica Centurius. No, they are just open to any possiblity. And don't believe what's written in a holy book to be utmost truth.
Muhammad actually “purchased” the slave by trading two black slaves, which is hardly a shining example of emancipation. Not only that, it establishes the fact that Muhammad owned and traded African slaves. As a wealthy businessman, he certainly could have liberated all three slaves, but chose instead to sell the two Africans into an uncertain future
You can't single out Islam for the practice of slavery when the Christian bible specifically endorses it and lays out the rules for it's practice. Personally as an athiest I condemn all religions that endorse slavery equally!
@@ET-jv1wm you actually can though because Islam hasn't backed away from slavery even a little bit. Whereas Christianity, outside of countries most often made up of slave and slaver ancestors, slavery has been all but eliminated. Not only that but it's elimination was spearheaded by Christian and former Christian groups/nationalities. Islam is and has been a primary driver and key player in the slave trade for the last thousand years.
@@scottc1857 I disagree with the premise of your argument, your interpretation of history, and your unsubstantiated claims. The abolition of slavery had almost fuck all to do with so called Christian morals. It was ultimately economics and political expediency that drove the "slave trade act" of 1807 that ultimately led to the "Abolition of slavery act of 1833" Abolitionisim had been documented since 1307. But was a fringe movement until the economics of the rising British Empire dictated the eventual abolition of the slave trade and later the shifting of financial and political power in the USA to the Northern states put the nails in the coffin of modern slavery. I disagree with your premis of Islamic nations being the key player for the last thousand years. Slavery was rife across southern and central America even before the European invasion. And continued (was expanded) under Christian rule for centuries after....... all ancient civilisations were economically founded on slavery. China, the far east, middle east and the entire Indian subcontinent were slavery economies in one form or another. So the distribution of guilt was shared equally amongst all of the major religion's and medieval and post medieval Europe was no different, only slavery was instead called serfdom. It was the black death and then the industrial revolution that shifted the European local economy out of serfdom. It was the rise of European colonization however that drove slavery to hitherto unseen proportions. Whilst the the focus was on the incredibly vast and previously unimaginable scale of the Trans Atlantic slave trade it was a truly global blight on humanity led by Christian nations and facilitated by African and various Islamic slavers and slave traders. And remember the Southern secessionist slave owners and traders were church going Christian folk, same as the Abolitionist Yankees! Modern slavery in its various forms is largely independent of religion. Catholic Christian South America shows similar prevalence to sub Saharan Africa, where there is little or nothing to differentiate between Christian and Islamic countries. In fact the middle east is lower and on a par with the USA and Western Europe. Russia is worse than south America and most of Africa and Hindu is worse than all of them including Muslim Pakistan..... It has little or nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Sugar, Chocolate, drugs, sex and human trafficking! Historically, Christianity as a religion is really no better or worse than Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism or any of the other religious or political systems that bound societies. . And in the modern era it is still a socio-economic issue rather than a socio-religious issue........
@@ET-jv1wm ... You're mistaking what I was saying. I 100% agree that the Christian nations were slavers for a disturbingly long time. (hell if you include Dutch colonialism etc even the "Christian world" has essentially just barely rejected slavery) BUT What I was saying is that had the abolition movement not started in the "Christian world" slavery would never have been rejected or deemed wrong at all. There just plain would have been no one else TO REJECT IT. Make no mistake though, I'm not painting the Christians as the good guys in the slightest. At best, they were and are just barely slightly less bad. Secularism is really what has killed slavery, we all know that, but secularism could have never emerged anywhere else. It's an extremely complicated topic and I failed to communicate the nuance I was going for.
@@scottc1857 Yes I understand your points better now, thank you! I still maintain though, that it was economic expectancy rather than a religion or religious decline that was the ultimate motivation for worldwide abolition of slavery. I cant argue with your point that modern secularism rose largely at a moment in history when Christianity was in a "large umbrella" / "Tolerant" phase...... not that long ago Atheism would have been coincidered heresy, and been punishable by torture and death! Not long ago Islam was far more enlightened, tolerant and inclusive than Christianity at the time. I am an Atheist and personally would like to see society derive its moral and legal framework from secular humanist philosophy . Religions tend to evolve and redevelop and reinterpret themselves over time, so I'd say that the Christian 'tolerance' of secularism is a quirk of historic timing rather than anything to do with the fundamental characteristics of the religion.
@@venga3 I do it all the time...and I am even worse than you guys, I am an ex muslim...the lowest of the lowest filth in their eyes. Yet nobody murdered me for critize Islam. You are, like the caller, a frightened buffoon...looking for a boogeyman for your own failures in society. Look at the laws of your country and make the change instead of wining on the internet about it. Voting for other frightened buffoons will also not help you....it will make things even worse. But it seems short sighted people dont see this and dont understand this.
@@venga3 disagreeing and insulting ARE different. and in the UK (where i am from) you can disagree with any religion. out right insulting and inciting hate is very different.
@blueray1969 I call out the absurdities or ask for proofs.....I don't slag off individuals for how their faith forces them to dress or use racist language or stereotypes like BoJo.
If the god of the bible had been portrayed as a king instead of a God , he would be remembered as the most evil, mass murdering, tyrannical dictator of all time! Christians give the bible god a free pass because, they say, he is god the creator. I don't see the difference whether man or god. If his actions were evil or immoral, as the bible states, then he'd be just as guilty of being evil as any human committing the same deeds.
I think the caller was simply echoing the sentiment Hitchens aired, when considering the EU political responses to Danish cartoons, French journals, and the Salman Rushdie fatwa. But he does seem to be freaked out by what Daesh were up to, at the time of broadcast.
If Islam cannot be criticised in the UK then why has a former prime minister David Cameron criticised it without penalty, the current Prime minister Theresa May has criticised Islam without penalty and the current favourite to replace her, Boris Johnson has also criticised Islam without penalty. Radical Islam is certainly an issue word wide. However, the idea that Islam is somehow protected from criticism is not borne out by the facts. And no European country has adopted Sharia law except for parts of Greece which have had those laws for nearly 100 years so its not a recent thing. If this discussion was based on facts instead of this idiots delusions then it would have been wholly different.
@Abzorbo So no actual examples of where UK law has been superseded by Sharia law. Any idiot can put up a poster or issue a death threat. Have you got any examples of where these have been carried out and the person involved was not then subject to UK law.
@Abzorbo So that's twice now you have been asked to give an example and you have failed to find even one. Get back to me when you have some facts to support your claims.
the caller basically proves the atheism is not the torch of enlightenment. do I like islam, absolutely not. but come on there are more lgbt people in the uk than muslims.
@@davegonnaway6007 Okay, but that wasn’t the reason I gave you my comment. I have you an example of how religion and politics do go hand in hand. The only reason why often times western atheists are against it is because they have this idea that Islamic law is the same as medieval Christian law. Don’t try to reflect your dislike of a historical periode onto another religious state. That’s all I am trying to convey. Pardon me if I came across as rude or mean.
@@theraising_4733 fair enough but still I dont want Islam or christianity involved in politics and i think it's only fair to say that as most religions have no good evidence for what they are saying is true to life...
@@davegonnaway6007 Could I ask, if a person dear to you like your wife or mother was depicted in a manner which is demeaning and disgusting would you be okay with that?
I live in England and I regularly criticize ALL religion, including Islam. This man is just wrong. We can't discriminate against people on grounds of religion which is fine in my opinion but that's not the same as Keiron's skewed view.
@@greeny202ab Because people have rights. We can challenge their views but discrimination is a different kettle of fish. Discrimination is about penalising people for irrelevant things like denying a place on a course because of colour or excluding from work because of religion.
@@nursetiggeruk What does a persons rights have to do with discrimination? Discriminating someone simply means to differentiate them from others and if you believe that muhammad flew around the desert n a winged donkey with a human head you are damned right I am going to differentiate you from someone who is sane. I see nothing wrong with the statement - "Muslims are backward and retarded" because to be called a muslim you MUST believe that muhammad was a perfect human being and we know from historical evidence that he married a six year old and fucked her when she was nine and tif you do not believe that thenb you are not a muslim.
@@greeny202ab As Matt often states "Words have usages, not just definitions". You're confusing usages. In this context discrimination is more than the differentiation of categorisation, as I'm sure you know. Discrimination on grounds of race, religion, sex, sexuality, age, disability is illegal in UK and rightfully so. I agree that all religious beliefs is bollocks but to discriminate on grounds of one Abrahamic religion whilst ignoring the absurdity of the others (Christianity/Judaism) is obviously biased. Even so, it has nothing to do with most decisions and/or opportunities.
@@nursetiggeruk Who says refering to one religion in particular is ignoring all the others? This is where liberalism and social justice leave their connections with reality.
I agree with her caller. Individual Muslims might be nice especially in non Muslim countries, but what happens to a country the more it becomes Islamised? The minorities rights cease to exist!
They're ignorant on how humans usually operate. Cultural assimilation happens all the time, it doesn't matter who perpetrates it. The Aztecs and Maya aren't really around anymore, they were devoured by the Spanish Empire, now Mexicans and other central Americans view Spain as a Motherland, it happens so fast. The same will happen to Europe in the future.
Matt has never claimed to be knowledgeable about UK Law, however if you call him about UK issues he will answer according to what he thinks is right. Matt is wrong here, but it's folly to bring UK issues to an American.
I really don't think so. Maybe you are assuming that his ideas and your own are closely aligned in all ways, so when he says what he actually thinks about islam you assume he's lying? When has matt ever been afraid of sharing his opinion? He's pretty honest.
@Corvo@AZ Some are but most of us aren't. EssenceOfThouht, AronRa, Genetically Modified Skeptic, Theramin Trees, Logicked, isethoriginal. All western atheist who don't shy away from treating Islam same way as Christianity. I can also speak for myself here.
The problem in Europe is a lot of the countries, UK included, that have state religions. In the U.S. our First Amendment to our Constitution prohibits the establishment of any one religion. We are certainly having a bit of a fight with christian theocrats in our government but they would have to change the Constitution's First Amendment to ultimately prevail in making the U.S. a theocracy.
Laws are written by a majority. If and when Islamic community is in that position, we are fucked. For once, I am glad for Michigan militias and preppers. I know it doesn't sound great after NZ shooting, but generally, here in US, there would be an uprising against a religious take over.
I seriously wish we had something similar to the American constitution. Especially the first amendment. We have never had anything remotely like free speech in the UK. The smirking, smarmy horseshit we get sold by the powers that be as free speech has no relation to actual real freedom of speech. We have never had freedom of speech. Anyone who attempts to tell you any different is pissing up your back.
I agree with many things said here. The UK needs far stronger freedom of speech laws and needs to abandon offence as having any relevance to the law. However I disagree with Matt and Jen on one thing, it most definitely is the followers of Islam trying to worm Sharia into UK law through whatever means they can.
Bad Tempered Badger they certainly are. But if your laws reject all theocracies, a tiny portion of the population wanting a specific one is no concern. I fully oppose sharia law. I also fully oppose Christians who want to ban gay marriage. That's not to make a false equivalence of the brutality of Christian versus Muslim countries. I believe majority Christian countries are more secular, but that's a compliment to secularity not Christianity. For an atheist opposing all religious influence on government is the logically obvious position. It's also obvious that in a majority religious world atheists should support freedom of religion. Without it the majority religion will persecute atheists as well. I stand for the rights of Muslims to practice their religion in the US because I have the right to practice no religion. I do not support Muslims enforcing their beliefs on others. I do not support US governments of both parties buddying up to brutal theocratic regimes like Saudi Arabia. I will continue to call all religions dumb, and support freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. Also for what it's worth, I think Iran would be as secularized as a western nation if the US and the U.K. hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secular leader who happened to be a socialist. The west in their foreign policy from that to arming al quaeda has consistently decided defending their economic power is more important than stemming the rise of theocracies. I don't think the brutal theocratic nature of those governments can be viewed separately from the fact the west helped foster the environment that prevented secularization
@Mrreciprocat I didn't say that the caller was right. I said that he had a point. Islam is an extremely dangerous religion, and at this moment it is the most dangerous form that religion takes.
@@Remake5182 Yeah. I just think they were a bit dismissive of the caller. You obviously should tread carefully when talking about this subject, especially when singling out a single religion, but Islam seems to be one of the most violent and detrimental forms religion take nowadays. I think the caller is trying to say that,and I don't think he's trying to be racist or xenophobic, but they seem to be very opposed to his comments
Jen - "Its a problem with your laws not the population of Muslims". Probably the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard on this matter and I am a long term admirer of TAE.
Matt is completly delusional here but Kieran is spot on ...of what good is the secular law of the land if you have literally whole suburbs that ignore it but rather accept sharia law? For Matts information: New interior minister Sajid Javid has sworn it office oath on the Quran. Sharia law has already made its way e.g. into UK family law if the involved parties agree to that...to suggest immigration has no impact on secular policies is naive if not outright insane! I guess the like/ dislike ration of this speak volumes.
It's the illusion of choice also. Because someone who is in the faith will be biased to accept Sharia law over family law - otherwise they aren't being a good Muslim. If they were to choose family law or mediation then they are going against their faith and against their family too.
The English guy was right about England. But, it is the laws in England which are the problem so he should be realistic enough to know USA is not going to let USA become Muslim-ruled. We're already Israeli-ruled, we'd never become Muslim-ruled.
Matt did not have to be so rude to this caller. The caller was an ally in the fight against religion. Matt could have emphasized his point of view as when he made his point about triaging religions without being rude to the caller. Even if the callers mind was not changed, politely exchanging point of views on the matter of Islamic extremism would have been enlightening.
The caller is asking for facism and tyranny which goes against everything matt stands for. Yes, Islam is bad, but discriminating them like Jews by the nazis is a dangerous road.
Some people really don't understand the U.S. form of government. Americans included, but this is wild. He can't grasp the concept of separation of church and state or freedom of speech. Reminds me of a guy in a big white house.
To be fair, european countries don't really have a seperation of church and state. It's definitely not a theocracy, but the church for instance does have a certain political power in those countries still. So hard to imagine, I would say.
@@prodrigues_ most Europeans countries governments have been separated from the church which dosent intervene in politics and dont have to swear to god or have in god we trust printed on their bank bills and have to fight so the bible isn't study at school
@@karelvo You do not have to swear on the bible in court. You can swear on any book or nothing. God Bless America is a 20th century song that has no official status.
Matt, How is it you prefer there to be less "Religious" people in the country yet you said the caller was a "Buffoon" because he said it would be prudent for us not to allow muslim immigrants into the US?
Maybe Matt prefers the Constitution be observed. There is settled law saying that religion cannot be used to keep people out of the US. Settled law, as in it's been adjudicated by the Supreme Court. This is why the Trump administration had to go through the contortions it did to change Donnie's promise to keep 'Muslims' out of the country to focus on stopping immigrants from specific nations (none of which have a Trump property, oddly enough)
I love they suddenly get aggressive when confronted with Islam. It's like they are hypocrite and closet bigots. They say that European laws are the problem, but not Muslims. UK has laws against child rape. So how could it be possible that Rotherham child rape scandal happened where thousands of kids got raped and abused? Because the city heavily Muslim dominated and there is so many of them that the local pro Muslim Labour government turned a blind eye. When you have democracy, and majority of voters are Muslims. What do you think will happen?
@@SOak145 The child rape scandal happened when Labour government was in power. Labour council in Rotherham was full of Muslim politicians. Despite the Muslims being minority overall, they managed to dominate local politics due to their tribalistic in nature.
@Ghost Banning religion does not work. It will only make the people from the banned religion consider themselves martyrs. Open dialogue is a better option.
This was a pretty stupid debate and both sides came out poorly. There was some truly stupid arguments "you'll soon find the Christian dominionists will come for you after you fix your other problems" really is the UK going to have an influx of immigrants from Mississippi or something. Evangelical Christians are an almost uniquely American issue, once a country secularised it's very difficult for the process to reverse thankfully.
No they didn't. Are you unable to tell the difference between defending the followers of Islam that are decent people while condemning those who aren't? It is bigoted to demonize every follower of a faith based on the minority. The same goes for Catholics just as Muslims. Even Matt has called atheists that say they hate Catholics on the basis of being Catholic bigots.
Can you not make every discussion that heated? Who needs that damn drama? I can tolerate when you interrupt religious nonsense, by asking your question over and over again, but this person clearly wants to warn you. Oh and don't be so sure about US, what can happen to it. Could you imagine Trump in the office? Now about muslims. You look almost offended when presented with the idea of not letting muslims in the US. What amount of muslims do you think is enough? They can and will just coming and coming you know. Until there will be so much of them that they will dictate what's gonna happen to your country. Your "its never gonna happen here" sounds so naïve... I may sound bigoted and "anti-muslim" but every rational person is "anti-muslim"
I guess you mean rationality is not in concurrence with islam, because people can change their mindset and ideology in light of facts (difficult, but not impossible). If people shed islam then they are not muslim.
No he didn't. When you demonize a group and try to limit their rights, they react. You should work with them. The uks laws need reforming and attitudes need changing
A muslim who calls himself muslim but doesn't obey scripture is not a practising muslim, it is not the same as the fallacious no true scottsman argument. If I said I was a cannibal, but never ate human flesh, it would be correct to say I am not a cannibal, despite me referring to myself as one. No true muslim would be different.
Only 4.4% of the UK population is Muslim. Because several Muslim countries were apart of the British Empire, and as such they were British citizens, and held passports which allowed them to travel and live anywhere in the British Empire.
Matt acknowledged those problems though but he has the foresight to see that changing the second generation of Muslims with a better way of life and education is the only way forward. The world needs to come together and learn from each other, not segregate more. Their will be suffering but ultimately in the long run it will be better.
He's right though if Islam gets out of hand laws will be changed coz majority will choose whom to vote and if majority is Muslim they'll prefer Sharia law
Except there is a Constitution that ensures that the whims of the majority do not infringe of the rights of individuals, and a Judicial Branch that can strike those laws down when they do. It's a three-branch government system. Very bureauacratic and slow but that's precisely what makes it hard for draconian shit to make it through.
These two are absolutely wrong and this is the only time I disagree with them. What has happened in Europe can just as easily happen here in the states.
@Das Bienchen Population of the majority of a race in one country. Muslim come to germany because of the democracy. Now imagine muslim population exceeds german population. Will they rewrite the rule of the country ?
"Douglas Murray... he's doing fine" "You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan To the poster below claiming he was "smeared" as a far right fascist, all I can say is if it quacks like a duck... Or are you just being wilfully ignorant of the things he has actually said? "I don't have a problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, intentional and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept." - anyone who actually cares about verifiable reality
Matt is battling a dying religion. I would love to see him battle Islam more. Muslims are young, educated in apologetics, and very passionate; would make great TV.
He has taken on Muslim callers too. They suck at apologetics too. Which isn't a surprise as they seem to mostly take Christian apologetic arguments and tweek them to their own nonsense. Appropriate as their whole religion borrowed heavily from Judaism and Christianity.
@Corvo@AZ I do not disagree, I think it's the most toxic form of religion that is still being practiced in these times. But what Matt is saying is, because politicians in europe wanted to appease muslims they let them have their own courts and stuff. Where as in the US it will be a lot harder, if not impossible, to do that. Giving special rights to one group of people is met with so much more opposition here because of the way laws are written.
@@mikeymyers9617 I live in The Netherlands, I'm fine thanks. British are becoming more like Americans every day. Come over here and you'll see, you don't know, you don't live here. Well, fucking surprise, I probably have more British friends than you do.
I found that rather uncomfortable. Not a great reaction by either of the hosts here. The caller didn't raise his voice once and the pair of them yelled their way through a lot of that
@@Heathen.Deity. yes, the caller indeed is a bit frayed. It happens when you see doom and no way out (for future generations as well!). It's called panicking. Of course he has a wrong idea, but not about the ideology of islam. Couple of thousand years from now, people would have gotten rid of most major religions of today, would even have worked out a new better system for time and date, would have excellent measures for education. Question is if you will have any contribution (directly or indirectly, or even detrimental) towards it, or not. Or, if it could happen sooner. Past had people like Newton, Euler, Hook, Leibnitz. Now we have likes of Dawkings.
UK free speech laws which dictate you can't call someone a fucking dirty muslim are not formulated based on offence - they are based on protecting racial/ethnic groups. You cannot say to a Pakistani - go back to where you came from, for example - it would be considered hate against an ethnic group. The laws actually make good sense and Matt misrepresented them here. You can call a fat person a fathead - or a skinny person a rake or an ugly person a pig - no problems there and they are all offensive.
The problem with this call is that the hosts don't realize that the caller is NOT against religious fundamentalism or dominionism per se. He clearly indicates he doesn't give a shit about homophobia, sexism, etc. He is just like fundamentalist Christians that complain about fundamentalist Muslims.
Never go to Americans to solve problems in Europe, the culture is completely different. Matt has no knowledge of European law, and does not live in Europe. The caller was accurate and his statements were fair. Anyone who is mocking the caller either doesn't understand the issue, or is agreeing with matt just because it's his show.
Noe do you have knowledge of America. And thats Matts point. This guy pretended to have knowledge of the U.S and assuming Islam would take over is hilarious at its best. You have no clue of the culture here. Thats it.
Just wanted to say that you can't get president in the US without saying 'God bless America.' and you have to swear on the bible in court. If christianity can get that done, than why shouldn't islam get that done.
God first Time i'm disagreeing with Matt on the cherry picking bit : extremists dont cherry pick and if you want to focus on the mecca period maybe you do 😁
Then they go to jail. They won't go in parades attacking random people like what they do in the uk. I've seen a video of muhammadist attacking a guy just because because he was holding a book tgat goes against islam. He burned book as well IN THE STREETS OF LONDON.if that happen in the us he will go to jail. Probably 5 years or more. If he resisted he will get at least 10 years or even get shot if he tries something stupid.
My first comment on this is channel : for the first time I completely agree with the caller and find the hosts ignorant, like most Americans, to the outside world. There is a difference between segregation(what Christians do) and forceful domination (what Islam wants)
I wish you people would calm down. Ease off the hysteria. How are we meant to deal with these big problems in a reasonable way if we keep pandering to fear and making out that islam is the boogey man? There are moderate muslims you can befriend and team up with against the extremism. The solution isn't to toss everyone out indiscriminately, because isolation will mean islam will never change! Islam needs taming, just like Christianity has been tamed. Be brave and make an effort, stop freaking out.
@@venga3 You misunderstand, Its NOT *our* responsibility, of course it is theirs from within and the ex-muslim community frim without. However it *is* our position to accept the mods and reformers and ex's ... 3ven the more fundy, but not yet radicalized... IF We lump them all together we give the fundy and radical MORE power over the community. We arent responsible per say, but we provide the greater fabric upon which the reformer/moderate can paint their reforms.
@@hypers829 I don't believe the caller was asking the hosts about UK law. The caller was issuing a warning to the hosts, as he's seen his own laws bend and change to accommodate a dangerous religious ideology.
@@BenHameen33 it's been a month and i don't remember what he said, I think I remember him asking matt a few things, if not, I completely agree with the caller as I said, I just think it was pointless to tell americans.
@@ET-jv1wm Before anyone gives kind of credit to your comments, you should: 1-Learn how to spell. In this case: racism with one "i" and no capital letter. 2-Have a profile pic. So yo don't look like a troll or a mindless bot. 3- Have an argument.
Without a doubt the strangest TAE comment section I’ve ever seen. Feels like I’m on some alt right channel. Can’t help but wonder, however, if Muslims want to live under sharia law so badly, why would any of them move to western nations? Why not go to Saudi Arabia? Why not join ISIS? Why do so many seem to want to get as far from those places as they can?
Why is it difficult for you to understand how someone can think that their divinely inspired laws are superior and not simultaneously wish to risk their lives by joining a terrorist organization? You can see polls on how Muslims feel about sharia law and they speak for themselves. Even while living in western countries many of them still believe things like blasphemy/apostasy and homosexuality should be punishable offenses. They want to get away from their shithole countries because western countries have a better quality of life by every measure and much more generous welfare states. They want to maintain that quality of life whilst also hoping to enforce the same laws in those western countries that made their countries shit holes in the first place. Do you not see how it could be difficult to be a devout Muslim yet say that you believe manmade secular laws are superior to the laws ordained by Allah himself? The view that having these views on Islam is somehow "alt right" is exactly what the caller is complaining about. In the UK you can make fun of Christians all you want but if you criticize Islam or Muhammad you can go to jail. There are TONS of famous atheists who are far from anything "alt right" or even right-wing who share the same concerns. Sam Harris... Bill Maher... The list goes on. Are you gonna call either of them alt right with a straight face?
Human nature is ,well basic, numbers tends to dictate what will go down ,simple as that,and if they do not ,force will have to be used to maintain what ever status quo is in place,or wants to be in place...😒
1:25 It will be the biggest threat in these areas if you let them take control. Give them an inch and they will take a mile...it's in the Quraan; it flat out tells them "Not to get weak and ask for peace when they have the upperhand". I'm an ex-muslim and I know these things.
Good to hear your arguments against this way of thinking. I may be guilty of similar thoughts, although I am not trying to rationalise Christianity in any way. These Islam folks scare me, and I am guilty of that too. My bad. Honour violence, wife beatings, Canadians are bad and dirty, 90% unemployment, no English or French after two years or more, etc. We need to address these issues here as well.
This is probably the only video from The Atheist Experience that I’ll have to disagree with. Europe is a great example of why you don’t tolerate barbaric savage religions, because when their population gets large enough, they very well DO start imposing their views upon outsiders in a social and political way, because that’s just common sense, that’s just how influence works. One big, obvious example would be the Roman empire and Catholicism’s influence. Islam and their followers is no different of a scenario. Laws don’t do shit to protect against that either. Laws are only as good as they are enforced, and if enough of the population turns to Islam, and half our politicians are Muslim, then obviously those politicians will look the other way when some Muslim somewhere does something bad, or not do anything to stop a group of Muslims somewhere trying to enforce their holy book’s rules as law, etc.
So long as laws come into play which prevent religious interference in government _beforehand_ . The issue, I'm not picking on Islam but all theology, is that when you have growing sections of society who will place their faiths before democratic process (as is happening in the UK now) then people will not engage with the political process other than what they are told by their religious leaders is the correct vote. There are sections of society which subjugate women with a fallacy that they are empowered because of it. They will vote accordingly to propagate that very same fallacy. There really is no choice under these ideological theocratic viewpoints. Seperation of church and state couldn't come quick enough. However this also has to happen on a local government level, where powers have been devolved to specific regions over here. Because if a specific region is heavily biased by a particular faith then the whole area becomes adoptive of that stance. Trying to change something after the fact creates a false 'us vs them'. Religion shouldn't have a bearing on non religious people's lives.
I don't think so, they have no idea about the UK and european laws. If you want to solve problems in Europe, you don't ask Americans. America is the laughing stock of western civilization.
Bit unfair to single out Britain when it comes to our supposedly inferior freedom of speech. Canada, Australia and much of Europe (pretty much every non-US Western country) has similar ‘hate speech’ laws. I think most people would agree that there need to be SOME restrictions on speech. Even the almighty America limits speech in certain forms.
The constitution applies to the government, not the people. The government then governs based on the restrictions/powers in the constitution. Maybe that's the difference in culture between the caller and the hosts. A difference in political structural applications.
Both showed the typical political correct behaviour we see a lot of in Europe. We are in a cultural war against Islam, this ideology has never stopped its war on us, but the last 400 years our civiliazation has been the stronger. Now we are actively comitting suicide by allowing Islam to take a strong position within our borders, and making criticism of it hatecrime. BLM is a good example that the US also is ripe to whip its people into marching in line with political correctness. Matt showed a lack of perspective here and was too busy with the details. This is what has destroyed western Europe.
@Mrreciprocat I was rather hoping you would point to the flaws in my argument, rather than a generalization without substance. We can't really discuss any matter on the basis of your argument, which is nothing more than an attack on me rather than my argument.
@Mrreciprocat I do. What's next? Edit: I still think it'd be more interesting if you'd point out where I'm wrong, instead of having a discussion on a specific word and it's meaning.
That’s baloney what the caller said that the rest of the planet apart from the U.S. doesn’t have religious freedom. Virtually every country has religious freedom.
Most of the arguments that atheists make against Christianity also can be applied to Islam, and also to Judaism. Disproving the existence of the Abrahamic God will disprove all these religions, and perhaps others that believe in the same God as well.
@@Кенжетайұлы yes I know, I was specifically referring to arguments against the Abrahamic God. I meant all these religions as in Judaism, Islam and Christianity, not all religions collectively. You would need other arguments for other religions which believe in other deities. I'm certain these other arguments exist, and so far no evidence confirms a particular God or deity believed by any religion. If some evidence was found which was undeniable, it would have made the news and we would most likely be believers in that religion already.
No matter how much I disliked this caller.... I think you all talked pass each other. I would have liked this call to go another way, because I find it interesting (even though this caller was, as Matt put it, a reactionary buffoon) and it should be talked about.
I live in the UK and its not true that you can't criticise Islam. However, there is a perception that you can't criticise Islam in the UK. Often though people confuse anti Muslim bigotry with a critique of Islam as a religion.
@@GoodBrotherGrimm I do understand. I do live in europe. What the dude is talking about has already happened. Sorry to say.. it fucking sucks over here atm
I think Dillahunty is in over his head. He comes across as someone who has just started researching Islam with minimal knowledge. Not sure why he gets so angry since the poor guy does not have any free will to be different other than what he says or believes. Dillahunty ought to go to Speaker's Corner in London and engage with the religious people. I think he would do well there.
Matt doesn't understand human nature and how we're incredibly territorial even though we're the same species, primates are not fuzzy and warm animals. This doesn't just apply to Islam, if you don't protect your culture and way of life, another group of people will come in and force you to comply with theirs. The moment English speaking countries lose influence, we will be subject to foreigners taking over, that isn't racism, its a fact, it happens with everyone. I'm not a conservative, I acknowledge the dark reality of human behavior, Matt seems to ignore it.
I don't have a problem with slavery and genocide in the bible, but it is the stuff in the Quran that I have a problem with. What a joke. But if it makes him feel better I will say E E EDL , E E EDL.......there I hope it makes him feel better. Btw more than half the world is Muslim and I think they have Shria law only in 3 or 4 countries, so even in muslim countries they don't even have Shria law and this guy is paranoid about Shria law in Europe and warning America.
This reminds me of the warcraft 3 campaign, where medivh (Kieran) is trying to warn the human leaders (Matt) of the coming threat of the Burning Legion (Islam) and they shun him away. And guess what happened to the majority of the human strongholds......
Well, the laws are fundamentally different in Lordaeron, so zombies could never take over. Also, how do you tell a peaceful Undead from an Undead with 'war mode' turned on for PvP? You can't, you have to let them all in. You realize there are Undead who don't eat brains, right? (sarcasm, btw)
believing into a continent has some hard facts on its side. islam is - well islam. a religion. me converting would need the book of formidable reasons that would outmatch the other book in size n 50 kilo.
You cannot have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.
I agree
And you can't have superstitious bigotry without hate mongering lies, misinformation and a snowflake's sense of entitlement...
What's your point?
@@IRGeamer my point is pretty simple; you can believe whatever superstitious nonsense you want, but you don't own me no matter how wild your imagination may be.
Here in Europe we just need to fund public education more and stop respecting religions "just 'cause". That is all. No educated population in the world has extremists, except for a few deranged individuals.
@Attica Centurius. No, they are just open to any possiblity. And don't believe what's written in a holy book to be utmost truth.
Muhammad actually “purchased” the slave by trading two black slaves, which is hardly a shining example of emancipation. Not only that, it establishes the fact that Muhammad owned and traded African slaves. As a wealthy businessman, he certainly could have liberated all three slaves, but chose instead to sell the two Africans into an uncertain future
You can't single out Islam for the practice of slavery when the Christian bible specifically endorses it and lays out the rules for it's practice. Personally as an athiest I condemn all religions that endorse slavery equally!
@@ET-jv1wm you actually can though because Islam hasn't backed away from slavery even a little bit.
Whereas Christianity, outside of countries most often made up of slave and slaver ancestors, slavery has been all but eliminated.
Not only that but it's elimination was spearheaded by Christian and former Christian groups/nationalities.
Islam is and has been a primary driver and key player in the slave trade for the last thousand years.
@@scottc1857 I disagree with the premise of your argument, your interpretation of history, and your unsubstantiated claims.
The abolition of slavery had almost fuck all to do with so called Christian morals. It was ultimately economics and political expediency that drove the "slave trade act" of 1807 that ultimately led to the "Abolition of slavery act of 1833" Abolitionisim had been documented since 1307. But was a fringe movement until the economics of the rising British Empire dictated the eventual abolition of the slave trade and later the shifting of financial and political power in the USA to the Northern states put the nails in the coffin of modern slavery.
I disagree with your premis of Islamic nations being the key player for the last thousand years. Slavery was rife across southern and central America even before the European invasion. And continued (was expanded) under Christian rule for centuries after....... all ancient civilisations were economically founded on slavery. China, the far east, middle east and the entire Indian subcontinent were slavery economies in one form or another. So the distribution of guilt was shared equally amongst all of the major religion's and medieval and post medieval Europe was no different, only slavery was instead called serfdom. It was the black death and then the industrial revolution that shifted the European local economy out of serfdom.
It was the rise of European colonization however that drove slavery to hitherto unseen proportions. Whilst the the focus was on the incredibly vast and previously unimaginable scale of the Trans Atlantic slave trade it was a truly global blight on humanity led by Christian nations and facilitated by African and various Islamic slavers and slave traders.
And remember the Southern secessionist slave owners and traders were church going Christian folk, same as the Abolitionist Yankees!
Modern slavery in its various forms is largely independent of religion. Catholic Christian South America shows similar prevalence to sub Saharan Africa, where there is little or nothing to differentiate between Christian and Islamic countries. In fact the middle east is lower and on a par with the USA and Western Europe. Russia is worse than south America and most of Africa and Hindu is worse than all of them including Muslim Pakistan.....
It has little or nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Sugar, Chocolate, drugs, sex and human trafficking!
Historically, Christianity as a religion is really no better or worse than Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism or any of the other religious or political systems that bound societies. . And in the modern era it is still a socio-economic issue rather than a socio-religious issue........
@@ET-jv1wm ... You're mistaking what I was saying. I 100% agree that the Christian nations were slavers for a disturbingly long time. (hell if you include Dutch colonialism etc even the "Christian world" has essentially just barely rejected slavery)
BUT
What I was saying is that had the abolition movement not started in the "Christian world" slavery would never have been rejected or deemed wrong at all. There just plain would have been no one else TO REJECT IT.
Make no mistake though, I'm not painting the Christians as the good guys in the slightest. At best, they were and are just barely slightly less bad.
Secularism is really what has killed slavery, we all know that, but secularism could have never emerged anywhere else.
It's an extremely complicated topic and I failed to communicate the nuance I was going for.
@@scottc1857 Yes I understand your points better now, thank you! I still maintain though, that it was economic expectancy rather than a religion or religious decline that was the ultimate motivation for worldwide abolition of slavery.
I cant argue with your point that modern secularism rose largely at a moment in history when Christianity was in a "large umbrella" / "Tolerant" phase...... not that long ago Atheism would have been coincidered heresy, and been punishable by torture and death! Not long ago Islam was far more enlightened, tolerant and inclusive than Christianity at the time.
I am an Atheist and personally would like to see society derive its moral and legal framework from secular humanist philosophy . Religions tend to evolve and redevelop and reinterpret themselves over time, so I'd say that the Christian 'tolerance' of secularism is a quirk of historic timing rather than anything to do with the fundamental characteristics of the religion.
wow, I had no idea, I was living in a sharia state and wasn't allowed to criticize Islam. who knew?
@@venga3 I do it all the time...and I am even worse than you guys, I am an ex muslim...the lowest of the lowest filth in their eyes. Yet nobody murdered me for critize Islam. You are, like the caller, a frightened buffoon...looking for a boogeyman for your own failures in society. Look at the laws of your country and make the change instead of wining on the internet about it. Voting for other frightened buffoons will also not help you....it will make things even worse. But it seems short sighted people dont see this and dont understand this.
@@venga3 criticising and trying to offend and hate speech are very different things.
@@venga3 disagreeing and insulting ARE different. and in the UK (where i am from) you can disagree with any religion. out right insulting and inciting hate is very different.
I criticise the bulk of the Abrahamic faiths and all I get is the repetitive shite responses, deflection and attempts to shift the burden of proof.
@blueray1969 I call out the absurdities or ask for proofs.....I don't slag off individuals for how their faith forces them to dress or use racist language or stereotypes like BoJo.
If the god of the bible had been portrayed as a king instead of a God , he would be remembered as the most evil, mass murdering, tyrannical dictator of all time! Christians give the bible god a free pass because, they say, he is god the creator. I don't see the difference whether man or god. If his actions were evil or immoral, as the bible states, then he'd be just as guilty of being evil as any human committing the same deeds.
I applaud ur comment.
I think the caller was simply echoing the sentiment Hitchens aired, when considering the EU political responses to Danish cartoons, French journals, and the Salman Rushdie fatwa. But he does seem to be freaked out by what Daesh were up to, at the time of broadcast.
If Islam cannot be criticised in the UK then why has a former prime minister David Cameron criticised it without penalty, the current Prime minister Theresa May has criticised Islam without penalty and the current favourite to replace her, Boris Johnson has also criticised Islam without penalty. Radical Islam is certainly an issue word wide. However, the idea that Islam is somehow protected from criticism is not borne out by the facts. And no European country has adopted Sharia law except for parts of Greece which have had those laws for nearly 100 years so its not a recent thing. If this discussion was based on facts instead of this idiots delusions then it would have been wholly different.
@Abzorbo Easy enough to prove then. Just give us a single example of where Sharia law has over-ridden British law in the United Kingdom.
@Abzorbo So no actual examples of where UK law has been superseded by Sharia law. Any idiot can put up a poster or issue a death threat. Have you got any examples of where these have been carried out and the person involved was not then subject to UK law.
@Abzorbo So that's twice now you have been asked to give an example and you have failed to find even one. Get back to me when you have some facts to support your claims.
the caller basically proves the atheism is not the torch of enlightenment. do I like islam, absolutely not. but come on there are more lgbt people in the uk than muslims.
@@eamontdmas Birmingaham, Leeds, Sheffield, Rotherham, shall I go on!
Religion should be kept out of politics but unfortunately it isnt
No, Islam didn’t do that and therefore you had the *ISLAMIC GOLDEN AGE*
@@theraising_4733 you can keep islam I dont want it involved in my political matters
@@davegonnaway6007 Okay, but that wasn’t the reason I gave you my comment. I have you an example of how religion and politics do go hand in hand. The only reason why often times western atheists are against it is because they have this idea that Islamic law is the same as medieval Christian law. Don’t try to reflect your dislike of a historical periode onto another religious state. That’s all I am trying to convey. Pardon me if I came across as rude or mean.
@@theraising_4733 fair enough but still I dont want Islam or christianity involved in politics and i think it's only fair to say that as most religions have no good evidence for what they are saying is true to life...
@@davegonnaway6007 Could I ask, if a person dear to you like your wife or mother was depicted in a manner which is demeaning and disgusting would you be okay with that?
I live in England and I regularly criticize ALL religion, including Islam. This man is just wrong. We can't discriminate against people on grounds of religion which is fine in my opinion but that's not the same as Keiron's skewed view.
"We can't discriminate against people on grounds of religion" Why not?
@@greeny202ab Because people have rights. We can challenge their views but discrimination is a different kettle of fish. Discrimination is about penalising people for irrelevant things like denying a place on a course because of colour or excluding from work because of religion.
@@nursetiggeruk What does a persons rights have to do with discrimination?
Discriminating someone simply means to differentiate them from others and if you believe that muhammad flew around the desert n a winged donkey with a human head you are damned right I am going to differentiate you from someone who is sane.
I see nothing wrong with the statement - "Muslims are backward and retarded" because to be called a muslim you MUST believe that muhammad was a perfect human being and we know from historical evidence that he married a six year old and fucked her when she was nine and tif you do not believe that thenb you are not a muslim.
@@greeny202ab As Matt often states "Words have usages, not just definitions". You're confusing usages. In this context discrimination is more than the differentiation of categorisation, as I'm sure you know. Discrimination on grounds of race, religion, sex, sexuality, age, disability is illegal in UK and rightfully so. I agree that all religious beliefs is bollocks but to discriminate on grounds of one Abrahamic religion whilst ignoring the absurdity of the others (Christianity/Judaism) is obviously biased. Even so, it has nothing to do with most decisions and/or opportunities.
@@nursetiggeruk Who says refering to one religion in particular is ignoring all the others?
This is where liberalism and social justice leave their connections with reality.
They can’t do that here ! That’s exactly what we said in Europe . Burying your head in the sand will not help you.
😂😂😂 cry harder wyt supremacist
They’re not burying their head in the sand - they’re literally out there fighting it.
I agree with her caller. Individual Muslims might be nice especially in non Muslim countries, but what happens to a country the more it becomes Islamised?
The minorities rights cease to exist!
They're ignorant on how humans usually operate. Cultural assimilation happens all the time, it doesn't matter who perpetrates it. The Aztecs and Maya aren't really around anymore, they were devoured by the Spanish Empire, now Mexicans and other central Americans view Spain as a Motherland, it happens so fast. The same will happen to Europe in the future.
Matt has never claimed to be knowledgeable about UK Law, however if you call him about UK issues he will answer according to what he thinks is right. Matt is wrong here, but it's folly to bring UK issues to an American.
To be honest, I like Matt a lot, but I do think he’s trying to be politically correct in this episode.
Yeah Matt cannot grasp the fact that if you are coming from a an Ebola infested area you simply stay out to protect the others.
@Robert Kelly that would be hilarious to see
I really don't think so. Maybe you are assuming that his ideas and your own are closely aligned in all ways, so when he says what he actually thinks about islam you assume he's lying? When has matt ever been afraid of sharing his opinion? He's pretty honest.
@Corvo@AZ Some are but most of us aren't. EssenceOfThouht, AronRa, Genetically Modified Skeptic, Theramin Trees, Logicked, isethoriginal. All western atheist who don't shy away from treating Islam same way as Christianity. I can also speak for myself here.
I find their utter denial makes me worried.
It just doesn’t fit their narrative!!!
Matt came across as ignorant and uninformed in this video, which he probably is with regards to UK law.
The problem in Europe is a lot of the countries, UK included, that have state religions. In the U.S. our First Amendment to our Constitution prohibits the establishment of any one religion. We are certainly having a bit of a fight with christian theocrats in our government but they would have to change the Constitution's First Amendment to ultimately prevail in making the U.S. a theocracy.
Oh man! Matt's rant is a thing of beauty. It's a freakin' art form.
@J Don't see or hear anything like that here.
As always when an English person calls, I apologise on behalf
Ikr
You don't have to it takes a very delusional person not to believe stupid people are everywhere.
Just send me David Beckham and Kate beckinsale to my bedroom so I can watch the two of them fool around. And then I’ll call it even.
As an English person I totally agree with this guy... Where do you live in the Cotswolds were there is no Muslims?
"can you tell which of these two believers are a dangerous fanatic?" Yes. Through their actions.
The perspectives in this program is very relevant regarding the difference between the laws in USA and Europe.
Laws are written by a majority. If and when Islamic community is in that position, we are fucked. For once, I am glad for Michigan militias and preppers. I know it doesn't sound great after NZ shooting, but generally, here in US, there would be an uprising against a religious take over.
I seriously wish we had something similar to the American constitution. Especially the first amendment. We have never had anything remotely like free speech in the UK. The smirking, smarmy horseshit we get sold by the powers that be as free speech has no relation to actual real freedom of speech.
We have never had freedom of speech. Anyone who attempts to tell you any different is pissing up your back.
I agree with many things said here. The UK needs far stronger freedom of speech laws and needs to abandon offence as having any relevance to the law. However I disagree with Matt and Jen on one thing, it most definitely is the followers of Islam trying to worm Sharia into UK law through whatever means they can.
Bad Tempered Badger they certainly are. But if your laws reject all theocracies, a tiny portion of the population wanting a specific one is no concern. I fully oppose sharia law. I also fully oppose Christians who want to ban gay marriage. That's not to make a false equivalence of the brutality of Christian versus Muslim countries. I believe majority Christian countries are more secular, but that's a compliment to secularity not Christianity. For an atheist opposing all religious influence on government is the logically obvious position. It's also obvious that in a majority religious world atheists should support freedom of religion. Without it the majority religion will persecute atheists as well. I stand for the rights of Muslims to practice their religion in the US because I have the right to practice no religion. I do not support Muslims enforcing their beliefs on others. I do not support US governments of both parties buddying up to brutal theocratic regimes like Saudi Arabia. I will continue to call all religions dumb, and support freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. Also for what it's worth, I think Iran would be as secularized as a western nation if the US and the U.K. hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secular leader who happened to be a socialist. The west in their foreign policy from that to arming al quaeda has consistently decided defending their economic power is more important than stemming the rise of theocracies. I don't think the brutal theocratic nature of those governments can be viewed separately from the fact the west helped foster the environment that prevented secularization
Uhm. The caller has a point...
@Mrreciprocat I didn't say that the caller was right. I said that he had a point. Islam is an extremely dangerous religion, and at this moment it is the most dangerous form that religion takes.
Of course, he does both sides did.
@@Remake5182 Yeah. I just think they were a bit dismissive of the caller. You obviously should tread carefully when talking about this subject, especially when singling out a single religion, but Islam seems to be one of the most violent and detrimental forms religion take nowadays. I think the caller is trying to say that,and I don't think he's trying to be racist or xenophobic, but they seem to be very opposed to his comments
The caller was right.
Jen - "Its a problem with your laws not the population of Muslims".
Probably the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard on this matter and I am a long term admirer of TAE.
The guy literally said all moderate Muslims are not "true Muslims" thats the definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy .
Matt is completly delusional here but Kieran is spot on ...of what good is the secular law of the land if you have literally whole suburbs that ignore it but rather accept sharia law? For Matts information: New interior minister Sajid Javid has sworn it office oath on the Quran. Sharia law has already made its way e.g. into UK family law if the involved parties agree to that...to suggest immigration has no impact on secular policies is naive if not outright insane!
I guess the like/ dislike ration of this speak volumes.
It's the illusion of choice also. Because someone who is in the faith will be biased to accept Sharia law over family law - otherwise they aren't being a good Muslim. If they were to choose family law or mediation then they are going against their faith and against their family too.
@@paulgascoigne5343 This is so confusing... they need to prioritize religion over family otherwise they're going against their family?
The English guy was right about England. But, it is the laws in England which are the problem so he should be realistic enough to know USA is not going to let USA become Muslim-ruled. We're already Israeli-ruled, we'd never become Muslim-ruled.
Matt did not have to be so rude to this caller. The caller was an ally in the fight against religion. Matt could have emphasized his point of view as when he made his point about triaging religions without being rude to the caller. Even if the callers mind was not changed, politely exchanging point of views on the matter of Islamic extremism would have been enlightening.
The caller is asking for facism and tyranny which goes against everything matt stands for. Yes, Islam is bad, but discriminating them like Jews by the nazis is a dangerous road.
Some people really don't understand the U.S. form of government. Americans included, but this is wild. He can't grasp the concept of separation of church and state or freedom of speech. Reminds me of a guy in a big white house.
To be fair, european countries don't really have a seperation of church and state. It's definitely not a theocracy, but the church for instance does have a certain political power in those countries still.
So hard to imagine, I would say.
@Nspnspker Well, I couldn't agree on that any more.
@@prodrigues_ most Europeans countries governments have been separated from the church which dosent intervene in politics and dont have to swear to god or have in god we trust printed on their bank bills and have to fight so the bible isn't study at school
"separation of church and state"? Than why do you have to swear on the bible in court and what's with the 'God bless America' thing?
@@karelvo You do not have to swear on the bible in court. You can swear on any book or nothing. God Bless America is a 20th century song that has no official status.
Matt, How is it you prefer there to be less "Religious" people in the country yet you said the caller was a "Buffoon" because he said it would be prudent for us not to allow muslim immigrants into the US?
Maybe Matt prefers the Constitution be observed. There is settled law saying that religion cannot be used to keep people out of the US. Settled law, as in it's been adjudicated by the Supreme Court. This is why the Trump administration had to go through the contortions it did to change Donnie's promise to keep 'Muslims' out of the country to focus on stopping immigrants from specific nations (none of which have a Trump property, oddly enough)
I love they suddenly get aggressive when confronted with Islam. It's like they are hypocrite and closet bigots. They say that European laws are the problem, but not Muslims. UK has laws against child rape. So how could it be possible that Rotherham child rape scandal happened where thousands of kids got raped and abused? Because the city heavily Muslim dominated and there is so many of them that the local pro Muslim Labour government turned a blind eye. When you have democracy, and majority of voters are Muslims. What do you think will happen?
@@ShangZilla Rotherham is a town and its not heavily dominated by Muslims
@@SOak145 The child rape scandal happened when Labour government was in power. Labour council in Rotherham was full of Muslim politicians. Despite the Muslims being minority overall, they managed to dominate local politics due to their tribalistic in nature.
@Ghost Banning religion does not work. It will only make the people from the banned religion consider themselves martyrs. Open dialogue is a better option.
I certainly understand the callers frustration.
@Dirk Knight Share what ?.
Caller correctly pointed out that US constitution applies to US citizens not to rest of the world, while talking about 6 muslim countries ban
This was a pretty stupid debate and both sides came out poorly. There was some truly stupid arguments "you'll soon find the Christian dominionists will come for you after you fix your other problems" really is the UK going to have an influx of immigrants from Mississippi or something. Evangelical Christians are an almost uniquely American issue, once a country secularised it's very difficult for the process to reverse thankfully.
Hosts really proved this guys point with the way they responded.
Really not? At what point did matt say that he cant criticise Islam?
No they didn't. Are you unable to tell the difference between defending the followers of Islam that are decent people while condemning those who aren't? It is bigoted to demonize every follower of a faith based on the minority. The same goes for Catholics just as Muslims. Even Matt has called atheists that say they hate Catholics on the basis of being Catholic bigots.
Can you not make every discussion that heated? Who needs that damn drama?
I can tolerate when you interrupt religious nonsense, by asking your question over and over again, but this person clearly wants to warn you.
Oh and don't be so sure about US, what can happen to it. Could you imagine Trump in the office?
Now about muslims. You look almost offended when presented with the idea of not letting muslims in the US. What amount of muslims do you think is enough? They can and will just coming and coming you know. Until there will be so much of them that they will dictate what's gonna happen to your country. Your "its never gonna happen here" sounds so naïve...
I may sound bigoted and "anti-muslim" but every rational person is "anti-muslim"
I guess you mean rationality is not in concurrence with islam, because people can change their mindset and ideology in light of facts (difficult, but not impossible). If people shed islam then they are not muslim.
As a Brit this caller is 100% right. Matt missed the point entirely
No he didn't. When you demonize a group and try to limit their rights, they react. You should work with them. The uks laws need reforming and attitudes need changing
@@Novacaine_m You both made good points.
The mayor of London is a muslim. We can't say anything about islam over here without offending them, Matt is clueless on this.
these people don't seem to understand that criticising islam might cost you your life
Was this guy's entire argument a "No True Muslim" argument?
A muslim who calls himself muslim but doesn't obey scripture is not a practising muslim, it is not the same as the fallacious no true scottsman argument. If I said I was a cannibal, but never ate human flesh, it would be correct to say I am not a cannibal, despite me referring to myself as one. No true muslim would be different.
Only 4.4% of the UK population is Muslim. Because several Muslim countries were apart of the British Empire, and as such they were British citizens, and held passports which allowed them to travel and live anywhere in the British Empire.
Given your 4.4% statistic it'll be revealing what that percentage is in say 10 years time...
@@allahspreadshate6486
Religious belief has been reducing worldwide for decades, so my assumption is it'll be far less.
@@mikehenderson7907 - I know christianity is on the decline, but is true for mooooslim, hindu etc.?
@@allahspreadshate6486 yes
@@mikehenderson7907 true except islam , its increasing
The caller is right. Most comedians, for instance, dare not make jokes about muslims. What about the mohamed drawings? Jen and Matt are ignorant.
Matt acknowledged those problems though but he has the foresight to see that changing the second generation of Muslims with a better way of life and education is the only way forward. The world needs to come together and learn from each other, not segregate more. Their will be suffering but ultimately in the long run it will be better.
Also, I live in England, you can criticize Islam you just have to do it in an intellectual way and not make fun of it
@@MrCrystalm8 That's also a problem, religion could be made fun of.
Matt is wrong, but Matt didn't choose to speak about the UK. The caller shouldn't bring up issues about the UK to an American host.
He's right though if Islam gets out of hand laws will be changed coz majority will choose whom to vote and if majority is Muslim they'll prefer Sharia law
And of the majority is Christian they’ll impose Christianity?
How did they not agree..laws are changed by the people...
Except there is a Constitution that ensures that the whims of the majority do not infringe of the rights of individuals, and a Judicial Branch that can strike those laws down when they do. It's a three-branch government system. Very bureauacratic and slow but that's precisely what makes it hard for draconian shit to make it through.
@@AaaaNinja Then the laws will change slooowwwly
These two are absolutely wrong and this is the only time I disagree with them. What has happened in Europe can just as easily happen here in the states.
1. What exactly do you think has “happened” in Europe? Last time I was there, there was no shariah law.
2. No, it can’t.
Population is everything dude... Major population will rewrite the government rule. Whether you like it or not.
@Das Bienchen Population of the majority of a race in one country.
Muslim come to germany because of the democracy. Now imagine muslim population exceeds german population. Will they rewrite the rule of the country ?
Douglas Murray speaks out about Islam and he's doing fine.
I'll bet he takes precautions regarding his safety since he took his public position on islam.
He’s portrayed as an alt right fascist. He may not go to jail but his image has been smeared because he criticizes a fascist ideology. Amazing really.
"Douglas Murray... he's doing fine"
"You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts."
- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
To the poster below claiming he was "smeared" as a far right fascist, all I can say is if it quacks like a duck... Or are you just being wilfully ignorant of the things he has actually said?
"I don't have a problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, intentional and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept."
- anyone who actually cares about verifiable reality
Matt is battling a dying religion. I would love to see him battle Islam more. Muslims are young, educated in apologetics, and very passionate; would make great TV.
He has taken on Muslim callers too. They suck at apologetics too. Which isn't a surprise as they seem to mostly take Christian apologetic arguments and tweek them to their own nonsense. Appropriate as their whole religion borrowed heavily from Judaism and Christianity.
He has dealt with Muslims.
The guy clearly thinks that UK culture is the same across all of Europe, when it's not.
Hearing Keiran talking to Matt is like hearing Matt talking to an average Christian on the show.
You don't think Matt has at least few good points here?
@Corvo@AZ I do not disagree, I think it's the most toxic form of religion that is still being practiced in these times. But what Matt is saying is, because politicians in europe wanted to appease muslims they let them have their own courts and stuff. Where as in the US it will be a lot harder, if not impossible, to do that. Giving special rights to one group of people is met with so much more opposition here because of the way laws are written.
lol no
Come over and live in the uk and you'll realise what the caller is talking about.
@@mikeymyers9617 I live in The Netherlands, I'm fine thanks.
British are becoming more like Americans every day. Come over here and you'll see, you don't know, you don't live here.
Well, fucking surprise, I probably have more British friends than you do.
I found that rather uncomfortable. Not a great reaction by either of the hosts here. The caller didn't raise his voice once and the pair of them yelled their way through a lot of that
Kerien what sharia law in Europe can you mention it just one?
Taanoliqe Abbi I think what is clear from Kieran’s idiotic call is that he is now a classic Brexit Party supporter.
@@Heathen.Deity. typical mate!
Austria (with support of ECHR) fined a woman for speaking about mohammad's relation with a minor girl.
Just ask if you want more.
@@Heathen.Deity. yes, the caller indeed is a bit frayed. It happens when you see doom and no way out (for future generations as well!). It's called panicking.
Of course he has a wrong idea, but not about the ideology of islam.
Couple of thousand years from now, people would have gotten rid of most major religions of today, would even have worked out a new better system for time and date, would have excellent measures for education.
Question is if you will have any contribution (directly or indirectly, or even detrimental) towards it, or not. Or, if it could happen sooner.
Past had people like Newton, Euler, Hook, Leibnitz. Now we have likes of Dawkings.
The muslim population in the UK are pushing for the implementation of sharia in certain muslim populated towns in England, to deny this is to lie.
UK free speech laws which dictate you can't call someone a fucking dirty muslim are not formulated based on offence - they are based on protecting racial/ethnic groups. You cannot say to a Pakistani - go back to where you came from, for example - it would be considered hate against an ethnic group. The laws actually make good sense and Matt misrepresented them here. You can call a fat person a fathead - or a skinny person a rake or an ugly person a pig - no problems there and they are all offensive.
😂 didn't they arrest a fellow for making a Hitler joke with his dog?!
Re watch some Hitchens . You may get some idea of what he’s talking about.
Matt's opinion of the UK laws is poorly researched. He clearly doesn't understand the laws and is buying into the caller's rhetoric.
"Lie and keep on lying. Eventually someone will believe you".
The problem with this call is that the hosts don't realize that the caller is NOT against religious fundamentalism or dominionism per se. He clearly indicates he doesn't give a shit about homophobia, sexism, etc. He is just like fundamentalist Christians that complain about fundamentalist Muslims.
Never go to Americans to solve problems in Europe, the culture is completely different. Matt has no knowledge of European law, and does not live in Europe. The caller was accurate and his statements were fair. Anyone who is mocking the caller either doesn't understand the issue, or is agreeing with matt just because it's his show.
Noe do you have knowledge of America. And thats Matts point. This guy pretended to have knowledge of the U.S and assuming Islam would take over is hilarious at its best. You have no clue of the culture here. Thats it.
I feel, for once, matt is mistaken.
Just wanted to say that you can't get president in the US without saying 'God bless America.' and you have to swear on the bible in court. If christianity can get that done, than why shouldn't islam get that done.
Wow this show was done in 2017.
God first Time i'm disagreeing with Matt on the cherry picking bit : extremists dont cherry pick and if you want to focus on the mecca period maybe you do 😁
The parents may not be radical, but their children might. Because of the ideology that they hold.
Then they go to jail. They won't go in parades attacking random people like what they do in the uk. I've seen a video of muhammadist attacking a guy just because because he was holding a book tgat goes against islam. He burned book as well IN THE STREETS OF LONDON.if that happen in the us he will go to jail. Probably 5 years or more. If he resisted he will get at least 10 years or even get shot if he tries something stupid.
Was high as balls watching this and I thought my headphones had broken. Realised after the vid.
Great call though.
My first comment on this is channel : for the first time I completely agree with the caller and find the hosts ignorant, like most Americans, to the outside world. There is a difference between segregation(what Christians do) and forceful domination (what Islam wants)
I wish you people would calm down. Ease off the hysteria. How are we meant to deal with these big problems in a reasonable way if we keep pandering to fear and making out that islam is the boogey man? There are moderate muslims you can befriend and team up with against the extremism. The solution isn't to toss everyone out indiscriminately, because isolation will mean islam will never change! Islam needs taming, just like Christianity has been tamed. Be brave and make an effort, stop freaking out.
(R)amen
@@venga3 You misunderstand, Its NOT *our* responsibility, of course it is theirs from within and the ex-muslim community frim without. However it *is* our position to accept the mods and reformers and ex's ... 3ven the more fundy, but not yet radicalized... IF We lump them all together we give the fundy and radical MORE power over the community.
We arent responsible per say, but we provide the greater fabric upon which the reformer/moderate can paint their reforms.
Uno Dos second this. I completely bought in to the Islam is just like any other religion narrative. Then I did research..
This is probably the first time I disagree with hosts and agree with the caller, they've no idea what's gonna happen
You don't call Americans to ask them about UK law, it's the caller's own fault. The caller was right about everything.
@@hypers829 I don't believe the caller was asking the hosts about UK law. The caller was issuing a warning to the hosts, as he's seen his own laws bend and change to accommodate a dangerous religious ideology.
@@BenHameen33 it's been a month and i don't remember what he said, I think I remember him asking matt a few things, if not, I completely agree with the caller as I said, I just think it was pointless to tell americans.
This was very political, it wasn't very religious.
Law and faith is the same thing in Islam.
...they were literally discussing a religion.
It's absolutely about religion. Especially about the separation of religion and state.
No, it was just plain old Racisim!
@@ET-jv1wm Before anyone gives kind of credit to your comments, you should:
1-Learn how to spell. In this case: racism with one "i" and no capital letter.
2-Have a profile pic. So yo don't look like a troll or a mindless bot.
3- Have an argument.
Kieran. ...you are not quite getting it,..I'm English, it's our problem, and all we can do, is move to change the law.
You cannot advocate a change in law if you are sent to prison for speaking out against islam, that is the entire problem.
Without a doubt the strangest TAE comment section I’ve ever seen. Feels like I’m on some alt right channel.
Can’t help but wonder, however, if Muslims want to live under sharia law so badly, why would any of them move to western nations? Why not go to Saudi Arabia? Why not join ISIS? Why do so many seem to want to get as far from those places as they can?
Why is it difficult for you to understand how someone can think that their divinely inspired laws are superior and not simultaneously wish to risk their lives by joining a terrorist organization? You can see polls on how Muslims feel about sharia law and they speak for themselves. Even while living in western countries many of them still believe things like blasphemy/apostasy and homosexuality should be punishable offenses. They want to get away from their shithole countries because western countries have a better quality of life by every measure and much more generous welfare states. They want to maintain that quality of life whilst also hoping to enforce the same laws in those western countries that made their countries shit holes in the first place.
Do you not see how it could be difficult to be a devout Muslim yet say that you believe manmade secular laws are superior to the laws ordained by Allah himself?
The view that having these views on Islam is somehow "alt right" is exactly what the caller is complaining about. In the UK you can make fun of Christians all you want but if you criticize Islam or Muhammad you can go to jail. There are TONS of famous atheists who are far from anything "alt right" or even right-wing who share the same concerns. Sam Harris... Bill Maher... The list goes on. Are you gonna call either of them alt right with a straight face?
I hate when people misuse the word thesis to mean theory.....everyone seems to be doing it now
Human nature is ,well basic, numbers tends to dictate what will go down ,simple as that,and if they do not ,force will have to be used to maintain what ever status quo is in place,or wants to be in place...😒
1:25 It will be the biggest threat in these areas if you let them take control.
Give them an inch and they will take a mile...it's in the Quraan; it flat out tells them "Not to get weak and ask for peace when they have the upperhand".
I'm an ex-muslim and I know these things.
Good to hear your arguments against this way of thinking. I may be guilty of similar thoughts, although I am not trying to rationalise Christianity in any way. These Islam folks scare me, and I am guilty of that too. My bad. Honour violence, wife beatings, Canadians are bad and dirty, 90% unemployment, no English or French after two years or more, etc. We need to address these issues here as well.
Literally every race and religion, and lack of religion, are guilty of everything you listed.
Why are you targeting the brown people specifically?
This is probably the only video from The Atheist Experience that I’ll have to disagree with. Europe is a great example of why you don’t tolerate barbaric savage religions, because when their population gets large enough, they very well DO start imposing their views upon outsiders in a social and political way, because that’s just common sense, that’s just how influence works. One big, obvious example would be the Roman empire and Catholicism’s influence. Islam and their followers is no different of a scenario. Laws don’t do shit to protect against that either. Laws are only as good as they are enforced, and if enough of the population turns to Islam, and half our politicians are Muslim, then obviously those politicians will look the other way when some Muslim somewhere does something bad, or not do anything to stop a group of Muslims somewhere trying to enforce their holy book’s rules as law, etc.
So long as laws come into play which prevent religious interference in government _beforehand_ . The issue, I'm not picking on Islam but all theology, is that when you have growing sections of society who will place their faiths before democratic process (as is happening in the UK now) then people will not engage with the political process other than what they are told by their religious leaders is the correct vote. There are sections of society which subjugate women with a fallacy that they are empowered because of it. They will vote accordingly to propagate that very same fallacy. There really is no choice under these ideological theocratic viewpoints.
Seperation of church and state couldn't come quick enough. However this also has to happen on a local government level, where powers have been devolved to specific regions over here. Because if a specific region is heavily biased by a particular faith then the whole area becomes adoptive of that stance. Trying to change something after the fact creates a false 'us vs them'. Religion shouldn't have a bearing on non religious people's lives.
Why is half of the video muted ?????
The caller is right...Matt and Jen terrified of offending Muslims.
As if.
I don't think so, they have no idea about the UK and european laws. If you want to solve problems in Europe, you don't ask Americans. America is the laughing stock of western civilization.
Bit unfair to single out Britain when it comes to our supposedly inferior freedom of speech. Canada, Australia and much of Europe (pretty much every non-US Western country) has similar ‘hate speech’ laws.
I think most people would agree that there need to be SOME restrictions on speech. Even the almighty America limits speech in certain forms.
Thanks for bringing this up. You beat me to it.
They talk about free speech being freely allowed in the US...yet several states...you're not allowed to swear in public. Frespech
@@skindred1888 I live in the US? Which state are you talking about? I live in NY people use f-ck in every other sentence
Almost half the video is muted 🤔
The constitution applies to the government, not the people. The government then governs based on the restrictions/powers in the constitution. Maybe that's the difference in culture between the caller and the hosts. A difference in political structural applications.
Disheartening to see Matt this naive about free speech laws.
Both showed the typical political correct behaviour we see a lot of in Europe. We are in a cultural war against Islam, this ideology has never stopped its war on us, but the last 400 years our civiliazation has been the stronger.
Now we are actively comitting suicide by allowing Islam to take a strong position within our borders, and making criticism of it hatecrime.
BLM is a good example that the US also is ripe to whip its people into marching in line with political correctness.
Matt showed a lack of perspective here and was too busy with the details. This is what has destroyed western Europe.
@Mrreciprocat And your argument is?
@Mrreciprocat I was rather hoping you would point to the flaws in my argument, rather than a generalization without substance. We can't really discuss any matter on the basis of your argument, which is nothing more than an attack on me rather than my argument.
@Mrreciprocat I do. What's next? Edit: I still think it'd be more interesting if you'd point out where I'm wrong, instead of having a discussion on a specific word and it's meaning.
@MrreciprocatIn layman's terms someone who opposes the current political development and/or want to revert to a previous political state.
That’s baloney what the caller said that the rest of the planet apart from the U.S. doesn’t have religious freedom. Virtually every country has religious freedom.
last half of call is silent
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Most of the arguments that atheists make against Christianity also can be applied to Islam, and also to Judaism. Disproving the existence of the Abrahamic God will disprove all these religions, and perhaps others that believe in the same God as well.
There are many religions not everyone follows Abrahamic faith
@@Кенжетайұлы yes I know, I was specifically referring to arguments against the Abrahamic God. I meant all these religions as in Judaism, Islam and Christianity, not all religions collectively. You would need other arguments for other religions which believe in other deities.
I'm certain these other arguments exist, and so far no evidence confirms a particular God or deity believed by any religion. If some evidence was found which was undeniable, it would have made the news and we would most likely be believers in that religion already.
@@farisakhtar4824 yea but some religions like Taoism Buddhism etc don't talk about gods or worshiping gods it's just way of life :v
@@Кенжетайұлы as long as they don't make claims they can't provide evidence for its fine.
No matter how much I disliked this caller.... I think you all talked pass each other. I would have liked this call to go another way, because I find it interesting (even though this caller was, as Matt put it, a reactionary buffoon) and it should be talked about.
I live in the UK and its not true that you can't criticise Islam. However, there is a perception that you can't criticise Islam in the UK. Often though people confuse anti Muslim bigotry with a critique of Islam as a religion.
Jonny , hows your perception after the events of last week ?
A teacher was literally fired for putting a picture of muhammed up ???
Wow it’s 2024 and this was spot
On.
Bullshit.
@@GoodBrotherGrimm huh? Whats the bullshit?
@@Astrohead824 Do you not understand context clues or something?
@@GoodBrotherGrimm I do understand. I do live in europe. What the dude is talking about has already happened. Sorry to say.. it fucking sucks over here atm
@Astrohead824 No it hasn't 😂
~ Two years later, and I am threatened by the hate promulgated by both Islam AND Christianity! Thank you, Matt & Jen.
Cheers, DAVEDJ ~
I'm sure this Matt know-it-all has many devoted Muslim friends.
I think Dillahunty is in over his head. He comes across as someone who has just started researching Islam with minimal knowledge. Not sure why he gets so angry since the poor guy does not have any free will to be different other than what he says or believes. Dillahunty ought to go to Speaker's Corner in London and engage with the religious people. I think he would do well there.
Matt doesn't understand human nature and how we're incredibly territorial even though we're the same species, primates are not fuzzy and warm animals. This doesn't just apply to Islam, if you don't protect your culture and way of life, another group of people will come in and force you to comply with theirs. The moment English speaking countries lose influence, we will be subject to foreigners taking over, that isn't racism, its a fact, it happens with everyone. I'm not a conservative, I acknowledge the dark reality of human behavior, Matt seems to ignore it.
Free will?
there is free speech in the UK you just have to make sure your speech does not incite racial or religious hatred or incite violence
News flash: “hate speech” is protected speech. You can hate anyone you want to and use whatever words you want. It’s the actions that are illegal.
Is it possible to say there is something about Islam that is offensive and call that hate speech and have it turned around on them?
They would probably say that whatever Koran says is protected under freedom of religion.
Hanna
Sure. However the Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible sanctions slavery and we don’t allow the religious freedom of owning slaves.
The Koran gives instructions to kill all unbelievers(of islam). I think someone could take offense to that.
He is absolutely right. Listen to him before it's to late
…it’s to where?
Refound Islam maybe with Suffis or/and ahmadis , druzes?
"I don't have any problem with Muslims, but it would be prudent to prevent Muslims from entering your country" lol
I don't have a problem with slavery and genocide in the bible, but it is the stuff in the Quran that I have a problem with. What a joke. But if it makes him feel better I will say E E EDL , E E EDL.......there I hope it makes him feel better. Btw more than half the world is Muslim and I think they have Shria law only in 3 or 4 countries, so even in muslim countries they don't even have Shria law and this guy is paranoid about Shria law in Europe and warning America.
Only Gknows you guys still want to apply thT crazy barbaric law unlike any other religion
7:00 onwards smh.... pure arrogance from the hosts. I'm a fan generally but had to skip the rest of this one.
Mrreciprocat this is one of the most obnoxious comments on RUclips I’ve ever read.. what a sheep...
@Mrreciprocat You are incredibly obnoxious in a number of comments here. Maybe some self reflection is in order.
lol guy just came to argue about nothing
Sharia laws are not imposed.
@The Bobster Of course sharia laws are imposed. A law by definition is imposed.
@@nuoiptertermer4484 what? Do you understand what imposed means? Show me where sharia laws are ACTUALLY imposed
This reminds me of the warcraft 3 campaign, where medivh (Kieran) is trying to warn the human leaders (Matt) of the coming threat of the Burning Legion (Islam) and they shun him away. And guess what happened to the majority of the human strongholds......
Well, the laws are fundamentally different in Lordaeron, so zombies could never take over.
Also, how do you tell a peaceful Undead from an Undead with 'war mode' turned on for PvP? You can't, you have to let them all in. You realize there are Undead who don't eat brains, right?
(sarcasm, btw)
dead wrong. the caller is correct.
Except for literally every assertion, and, like, half the actual words, yes.
@@mikehenderson7907 dead wrong. the caller is correct.
Mike Henderson Thank you !! A sane comment in a sea of utter drivel !!!
Kieran seems like the type to think that calling people slurs is "criticizing their religion"
13:45 ... Nailed it.
Stop by trying to be too politically correct, Matt!
He wasn't. He was sharing what he honestly thought, like usual.
believing into a continent has some hard facts on its side. islam is - well islam. a religion. me converting would need the book of formidable reasons that would outmatch the other book in size n 50 kilo.