Although it states that the Argyrum Pattern Boarding Shield cannot be used with two handed weapons, it doesn't have the restriction the standard boarding shield has stopping the +1 attack from the Legatine Axe and Bolt Pistol.
@@TheOuterCircle I don’t think its an oversight. The shield is the one the Suzerain use, and they are all holding their bolt guns on their shield arms. I guess it’s just made out of a lighter material than other boarding shields.
Yeah, they get an extra attack in my book, modelled as having the pistol and shield in the he same hand. Suzerain are just nuts. We play house rules of 1 of each special unit only.
Only thing to add is that the Argyrum Boarding shield doesn't stop you getting the bonus for +1 attack for 2 melee weapons like normal shields, so Suzerains go to 4 attacks each! Ouch! Great Video!
@@guilliman1990 A bit busted. Just from a pricing perspective. Suzerians are effectively better tartaros terminators. Better WS, more attacks, better invuln in CC, AP2 at initiative. All for cheaper than a kitted out squad. Same goes for the Fulmentarii. Just better tyrants thanks to BS5, S8 AP2 Brutal 2 missiles. Which is bull. The ultramarines were never technological innovators, at least lore wise or at least not to this extent. I just love how some legions in this ed, especially ultras, dangles and fists seem to have been buffed into the stratosphere while other loyalist ones got the shaft. Thanks, john french. This whole ed just reeks of him.
@@pablosturm6640 I feel the suzarian are great I can't argue that maybe not as bad as could be if the axes had kept that perk from first edition. Tho the 4++ in CC is very solid. While I do think the terminators are disgusting ap2 missiles is terrifying 😳
Suzerains are also Line and Characters, so that they can allocate wounds individualy. They are Beasts! The RoW works also: you can shoot with a vehicle first and the infantry unit has +1 BS, means it equals out the negative modifier! ;)
Great video! I always use the UM Rite of War. Yes, its tricky, but I find it super-powerful. I run 10 Invictarus Suzerain, and I run a 20-man Tactical Squad with chain bayonets. The +1 to WS makes the Suzerain dominate other elite units, and it makes the Tactical Squad punch WAY over their class. Im constantly taking opponents by surprise with my "lowly" Tactical Squad because Im hitting opponents on 3's, wounding on 3's with a re-roll due to the shred rule, and most enemy units need 5's to hit back! LOL! After watching your video, Im definitely adding the Praetorian Breacher squad! You’ve convinced me that they're worth it.
RAW the ultramarines boarding shield doesn't stop you getting +1 attack for having two close combat weapons so the invictus Suzeriens have 4 attacks base and 5 attacks on the charge...
Logos RoW is pretty amazing - take melee focussed infantry and shooting focussed vehicles. Every other turn you get +1 ws which is absolutely awesome at a clutch moment.
I think the rite of war can work - if you're playing a very assault focused army. If all your infantry are close-combat spec'd, (optionally) start in Full March, then flip between Retribution and Regroup on alternating turns depending on when you expect to 'hit'. Pumping elites to WS6 and basic assaults/despoilers to WS5 half the time for the low, low price of a Master of Signals seems perfectly workable. The regroup/unpin bonuses in the 'off' turns are also quite useful I don't even think the 3rd mandatory troop choice is really a tax, except at small games, since you want more Line anyway. You can probably make an oppressively good army by just spamming piles of Suzarin (3 in Elites, save 1 slot of apothecaries, and potentially more as a retinues) run cheap/minimal troops (since the Suzarian are also line) and fill out the rest of your points with whatever vehicles tickle your heresy pickle
Not going to lie, a few Traitor Only ideas seem interesting for fluff reasons. You know: you need to represent some of the more popular Ultramarines successors like the Astral Claws ;)
I'd love to see a video where you go through your current forces and take a look at how they translated from HH 1.0 to HH 2.0 - especially your Nemesis Chapter! - Also, does anyone know if the Ultramarine unique terminators can still take autocannons instead of missile launchers?
You can kinda reduce the pain of the deducted ballistic skill with a Centurion with the signals consul upgrade - as to have the row you need a master of signals to access it or a command rhino. Edit: I just always attach the Centurion to a missile squad.
I've been going back and forth on whether to actually go through with my conversion plans for Fulmentarus, and Nemesis Destroyers as well to a lesser extent. I keep seeing people say they're too OP to use. I don't really want to spent a lot of time and energy converting up a unit that's going to feel bad to play. Was kind of hoping to see you clear the air about these units.
I say go for it man. I know they are strong but I don't think they are back breaking op. Just don't do more than 5-10. Just realize they might get nerfed or events might elect to not use document units.
Nemesis Destroyers are fine, in fact rather underwhelming. Now they lost their Breaching 6+ for some reason they're just regular foot Destroyers with worse melee more or less.
RAW, it seems to me that the legion trait also benefits snap shots because the rules for snap shots say that the ballistic skill can only be modified by rules that specifically say they affect snap shots, but the legion rule is adding +1 to the dice score of a shooting attack, not to the ballistic skill which. What do you make of that? Not sure if it's intentional but it is in line with some of the previous editions allowing snap shots at BS2 via their rite of war for example.
Question: with logos order stand fast doesnt it only limit infantry to not moving? So in the first turn your transports move up while tge heavy support infantry open up with a strong alpha strike? Also if they cpuld choose 1 of these for each unit each turn it would be a broken rite of war. Beyond great nearing problematic
It does only affect infantry, the problem is that you'll be using a range of infantry most games, and being forced to switch the Logos each turn will mean having to pick less optimal choices.
@@TheOuterCircle oh ye, and i think you should of been allowed to live in 1 turn after turn if you wanted. Jist wanted clarrification if transports could still move. Not an UM player, NL, and i would never dream of running this row, i like the idea behind it but since you cant build around and live in just one or two of these turn after turn is a massive issue
I have been trying to work out if The Strength of Wisdom works with Dedicated Transports. For example, could you run a Tac Squad in a Rhino, jump them out and shoot at a unit with the Rhinos Bolter and then open up with a full Tac Squad at +1 to hit (or visa versa if you pop a Multimelta on a Rhino or something). It looks like it would work rules wise. That way you cold have a mobile +1 to hit buff for every unit with a Dedicated Transport. Thoughts?
the only way i see the logos being of use to me is my current 1st ed build with my 2 or 3 flyers. i still like my axes being as they are not special weapons now.
Ive never disagreed so strongly as with the lectora ROW. Use armour in support of infantry and transports to accomodate it, ultras should probably be mechanized anyway for their legion trait.
@@TheOuterCircle Telemechrus is amazing. He's WS6 and Hatred which means he'll beat the hell out of any rival Dreadnought in melee. That's a huge step up from trading like any other Contemptor would
you heard it here first folks certified A++ Macca called it. i loved my suzerain but they got a solid glow up this edition. our normal breachers are ok i don't love since elite.
![ROSÉ (로제) - number one girl [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9oByH9Ci24/mqdefault.jpg)
Although it states that the Argyrum Pattern Boarding Shield cannot be used with two handed weapons, it doesn't have the restriction the standard boarding shield has stopping the +1 attack from the Legatine Axe and Bolt Pistol.
Yeah, but I personally consider that an oversight, hence I played that one down.
@@TheOuterCircle I don’t think its an oversight. The shield is the one the Suzerain use, and they are all holding their bolt guns on their shield arms. I guess it’s just made out of a lighter material than other boarding shields.
Yeah, they get an extra attack in my book, modelled as having the pistol and shield in the he same hand. Suzerain are just nuts. We play house rules of 1 of each special unit only.
Only thing to add is that the Argyrum Boarding shield doesn't stop you getting the bonus for +1 attack for 2 melee weapons like normal shields, so Suzerains go to 4 attacks each! Ouch! Great Video!
This suzarian are baller
@@guilliman1990 A bit busted. Just from a pricing perspective. Suzerians are effectively better tartaros terminators. Better WS, more attacks, better invuln in CC, AP2 at initiative. All for cheaper than a kitted out squad. Same goes for the Fulmentarii. Just better tyrants thanks to BS5, S8 AP2 Brutal 2 missiles. Which is bull. The ultramarines were never technological innovators, at least lore wise or at least not to this extent. I just love how some legions in this ed, especially ultras, dangles and fists seem to have been buffed into the stratosphere while other loyalist ones got the shaft. Thanks, john french. This whole ed just reeks of him.
@@pablosturm6640 I feel the suzarian are great I can't argue that maybe not as bad as could be if the axes had kept that perk from first edition. Tho the 4++ in CC is very solid. While I do think the terminators are disgusting ap2 missiles is terrifying 😳
@@guilliman1990 Not just AP2. S8 AP2 Brutal 2. These can kill a dreadnought in a single turn of shooting, a feat unseen in most of this edition.
I don’t think Macca mentioned but both of the UM special units are also Line.
My fav legion and chapter in both 30k and 40k. Love me some heresy ultras
Suzerains are also Line and Characters, so that they can allocate wounds individualy. They are Beasts! The RoW works also: you can shoot with a vehicle first and the infantry unit has +1 BS, means it equals out the negative modifier! ;)
Great video! I always use the UM Rite of War. Yes, its tricky, but I find it super-powerful. I run 10 Invictarus Suzerain, and I run a 20-man Tactical Squad with chain bayonets. The +1 to WS makes the Suzerain dominate other elite units, and it makes the Tactical Squad punch WAY over their class. Im constantly taking opponents by surprise with my "lowly" Tactical Squad because Im hitting opponents on 3's, wounding on 3's with a re-roll due to the shred rule, and most enemy units need 5's to hit back! LOL! After watching your video, Im definitely adding the Praetorian Breacher squad! You’ve convinced me that they're worth it.
RAW the ultramarines boarding shield doesn't stop you getting +1 attack for having two close combat weapons so the invictus Suzeriens have 4 attacks base and 5 attacks on the charge...
Logos RoW is pretty amazing - take melee focussed infantry and shooting focussed vehicles. Every other turn you get +1 ws which is absolutely awesome at a clutch moment.
I think the rite of war can work - if you're playing a very assault focused army.
If all your infantry are close-combat spec'd, (optionally) start in Full March, then flip between Retribution and Regroup on alternating turns depending on when you expect to 'hit'. Pumping elites to WS6 and basic assaults/despoilers to WS5 half the time for the low, low price of a Master of Signals seems perfectly workable. The regroup/unpin bonuses in the 'off' turns are also quite useful
I don't even think the 3rd mandatory troop choice is really a tax, except at small games, since you want more Line anyway.
You can probably make an oppressively good army by just spamming piles of Suzarin (3 in Elites, save 1 slot of apothecaries, and potentially more as a retinues) run cheap/minimal troops (since the Suzarian are also line) and fill out the rest of your points with whatever vehicles tickle your heresy pickle
Not going to lie, a few Traitor Only ideas seem interesting for fluff reasons.
You know: you need to represent some of the more popular Ultramarines successors like the Astral Claws ;)
Another good video.
Would you also review the PDF choices as well? Pretty please?
Thanks for the video, I was looking forward to it but I missed the analysis on the Nemesis Destroyers which I was planning to use :(
I'd love to see a video where you go through your current forces and take a look at how they translated from HH 1.0 to HH 2.0 - especially your Nemesis Chapter!
- Also, does anyone know if the Ultramarine unique terminators can still take autocannons instead of missile launchers?
You can kinda reduce the pain of the deducted ballistic skill with a Centurion with the signals consul upgrade - as to have the row you need a master of signals to access it or a command rhino.
Edit: I just always attach the Centurion to a missile squad.
I've been going back and forth on whether to actually go through with my conversion plans for Fulmentarus, and Nemesis Destroyers as well to a lesser extent. I keep seeing people say they're too OP to use.
I don't really want to spent a lot of time and energy converting up a unit that's going to feel bad to play. Was kind of hoping to see you clear the air about these units.
I say go for it man. I know they are strong but I don't think they are back breaking op. Just don't do more than 5-10. Just realize they might get nerfed or events might elect to not use document units.
Nemesis Destroyers are fine, in fact rather underwhelming.
Now they lost their Breaching 6+ for some reason they're just regular foot Destroyers with worse melee more or less.
What is a all dreadnought zrmy list called?
RAW, it seems to me that the legion trait also benefits snap shots because the rules for snap shots say that the ballistic skill can only be modified by rules that specifically say they affect snap shots, but the legion rule is adding +1 to the dice score of a shooting attack, not to the ballistic skill which. What do you make of that? Not sure if it's intentional but it is in line with some of the previous editions allowing snap shots at BS2 via their rite of war for example.
It does benefit snap shots, yes.
Question: with logos order stand fast doesnt it only limit infantry to not moving? So in the first turn your transports move up while tge heavy support infantry open up with a strong alpha strike?
Also if they cpuld choose 1 of these for each unit each turn it would be a broken rite of war. Beyond great nearing problematic
It does only affect infantry, the problem is that you'll be using a range of infantry most games, and being forced to switch the Logos each turn will mean having to pick less optimal choices.
@@TheOuterCircle oh ye, and i think you should of been allowed to live in 1 turn after turn if you wanted. Jist wanted clarrification if transports could still move. Not an UM player, NL, and i would never dream of running this row, i like the idea behind it but since you cant build around and live in just one or two of these turn after turn is a massive issue
just saying both the invictus susarius and praetorans breachers are both line too
I have been trying to work out if The Strength of Wisdom works with Dedicated Transports.
For example, could you run a Tac Squad in a Rhino, jump them out and shoot at a unit with the Rhinos Bolter and then open up with a full Tac Squad at +1 to hit (or visa versa if you pop a Multimelta on a Rhino or something). It looks like it would work rules wise. That way you cold have a mobile +1 to hit buff for every unit with a Dedicated Transport. Thoughts?
That's exactly what you do.
Nothing unique but potentially strong feels very ultramarine
the only way i see the logos being of use to me is my current 1st ed build with my 2 or 3 flyers. i still like my axes being as they are not special weapons now.
Bit disappointing that you did not recommend the literal ultramarine icon helmet just a big ass U
the best legion yay
We march for Macragge!
You realize it’s like saying Cowboys are the best NFL team, Yankees for MLB and so on… #bandwagon #smurfs #beenthere
@@davidubois86 I'm not American so I don't know what the fuck you are on about. An yes the ultras in heresy are the best its not an option just facts.
@@davidubois86 Why are you using hashtags on RUclips comments, you cretin? Lmao
@@davidubois86 But have you considered that the Steelers are going to the superbowl?
Ive never disagreed so strongly as with the lectora ROW. Use armour in support of infantry and transports to accomodate it, ultras should probably be mechanized anyway for their legion trait.
Not mentioned in the video but Locutarus have rules in the Legacies PDF and are one of the few units there that actually look decent.
They are, the only questionable quality Ultras unit is the Honoured Teletubby.
@@TheOuterCircle Haha, Honoured Telebubby? I'll never be able to read Know No Fear seriously again.
@@TheOuterCircle Telemechrus is amazing.
He's WS6 and Hatred which means he'll beat the hell out of any rival Dreadnought in melee. That's a huge step up from trading like any other Contemptor would
you heard it here first folks certified A++ Macca called it. i loved my suzerain but they got a solid glow up this edition. our normal breachers are ok i don't love since elite.
Yay