Hello CEE, Thank you for the introduction and for the reference [I almost always work in metric system and SI units. I therefore lack the intuitive feel of the order of magnitudes of imperial system units and their values. I often find myself having to first convert everything to metric, this can be a pain sometimes]. The PCA reference that you have mentioned is very good and it is practical. Both theory, concepts, and design recommendations have been comprehensively well presented in this reference. In response to the CEE comment at 14:27; I say yes, if possible, I would like to see CEE touch on the design of the walls (and hopefully in future videos, the design of the foundations for these walls and the tank). In addition to the reinforcements that resist “Bending moment” in the horizontal and in the vertical directions of the walls. It seems that additional reinforcements are also required to resist “ring tension” or “tensile hoop stress” to resist the bursting effect of the walls. It would be great if CEE can touch on how the results or values of the “ring tension or hoop stress” are interpreted from RSAP; and how the reinforcements are provided for the ring tension in RSAP on the proposed design video. The BS 8007 (if I am not mistaken) used to limit the crack width from 0.1mm to 0.2mm max (I am not exactly sure what the current = year 2022 crack widths limits or requirements are). Is there a “design module” in RSAP for the assessment of the crack width at service loads for the provided reinforcements? If so, can CEE touch on this as well on the proposed wall design video? Is it fair to assume that the “strange moments” at 12h48 …..”because of limitations or inaccuracies in the FE method….” should be ignored in the design of the vertical or horizontal reinforcements in favour of the moments values from the rest of the elements that are NOT “….near the connections of the two plates…?” Does the two plates connection point affect other results such as ring tension, etc. at this point? You mentioned at 13:14 about “smoothing”, would understanding what “smoothing” is help the designer to decide on the “strange moments” and the connection of the two plates above? Or is the concept of smoothing something else altogether that is rather concerned with smoothened and calculated averages on nodes? [apologies if I am not making sense, I do not really understand what I am saying here 😊] Lastly and with regards to the modelling of the connection between the dome and the top of the circular tank walls. I have seen that usually a “ring beam” is used at this connection. I have noticed that a direct connection was used on this video without a ring beam, is this direct connection also sufficient? If CEE is aware of the ring beam usage in this connection, can you touch on how does the two connection models (with and without ring beam) compare with each other? Once again, thank you CEE for a well produced introductory tutorial, I have enjoyed it! On the lighter note: I love the clarity of the presentation about the disclaimer at 7:00, it is hard to miss and yet it is also equally (if not more) informative.
Hello there, thanks for your comment. Yeah I do have the same problem with Imperial units to be honest. Still the PCA reference is good and can help you realize the aspects of circular tanks. Following your comment, I will then add the design of water tanks to my list. ^_^ Yes, It slipped my mind to show you the horizontal hoop forces, which are tensile. You are right, there as every bit dangerous as the vertical moments. The inaccuracy is due to the limitations of the FEM method. I will have to - personally - dive deeper into this before I release a video to the public. It intrigued me personally, and I decided to keep it in the video as a small intriguing hint to my audience, something that you have picked up ^_^ smoothing is a really long story to discuss here, I am planning to hold - in the future - video lectures about various civil engineering subjects. Still, I do not want to simply answer the question like that, but: I can refer you to: A first course in the finite element method by Daryl L. Logan. and here is a quote: !!!! Quote Start !!!! "An alternative procedure sometimes is to use an average (possibly weighted) value of the stresses evaluated at each node of the element. This averaging method is often based on evaluating the stresses at the Gauss points located within the element (described in Chapter 10) and then interpolating to the element nodes using the shape functions of the specific element. Then these stresses in all elements at a common node are averaged to represent the stress at the node. This averaging process is called smoothing. Figure 7-11 shows a maximum principal stress ‘‘fringe carpet’’ (dithered) contour plot obtained by smoothing " !!! Quote End !!! For the connection, I agree. a direct connection is not really practical, as some sort of "stiffening" has to be performed to ensure the rigidity of the connection between the dome and the wall. Thus, a ring beam is usually provided there. I thought that I want to try to focus on the "trick of modeling circular stuff", which is the reason why I named the video "modeling circular walls and domes" and left the tank in the end of the sentence Still, to be honest, I am quite disappointed with my performance in this video. I think it was not of usual quality. I am preparing a simplified raft video "mat foundation" to redeem myself ^_^ The disclaimer had to be smashed in the middle of the screen, coz I did not want to start explaining all the details of choosing the thickness of walls. That is why I referenced the PCA document. It includes a lot of useful information with regard to that issue. Anyways, I am always happy with all comments Regards. CEE
@@CivilEngineeringEssentials Wow, I could not have hoped for better answers, thank you so much for your feedback and for the additional reference. For me, you are extremely knowledgeable [Respect!], you are honest with your knowledge and you do not pretend to know everything. CEE encourages the viewers not to shy away from uncertain topics or subject but to rather explore those topics and to learn from them. As far as I am concerned, you have NOTHING to be disappointed about. You are correct, this tutorial did remain focused to its title and it have clearly covered various ways and "tricks of modelling circular stuff". More than this, CEE also offered the viewers opportunity to comment if they are interested on additional topics and subjects such as design of circular tank walls. I am in admiration of the CEE performance and quality in THIS tutorial 💯 (as I am in all other past tutorials so far). Hold your head high, you have done nothing wrong.
oh with water pressure and reinforcement, alright, I will try to make one PS: Sorry for the late reply. I had a ton of things to finish and now I am gradually getting back
Hi bro can u make one video about complete design and analysis of circular water tank and generate the detailed drawing from robot structural analysis... Plz
That is a really great suggestion. I am still struggling to finish my RC building series, I think I should check this or a bridge out next. Regards, CEE
Hi there, you have to define a thickness and make sure you select the correct material before you model In other words, in order to modify the material, you have to modify the thickness. It is kind of weird, but well, it is how RSA is doing things ^_^ Thank you very much for your comment and stay tuned for more content, CEE
Thanks for your sharing! Can I ask one please? most of your VDO using Robot you used only Building Design? why not in Shell Design or Frame 3D Design for Steel etc..? Can you please help make the VDO explain?
Really? if that is the case, check if changing the structure type magically makes it re-appear. It seems those people at Autodesk kind of messed things up here and there. They tried to simplify things, but made it convoluted
![Who Wrote a Short Story That Seriously Disturbed a Teacher? | Dirty Laundry x Smosh [Full Episode]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bvHAy_rKoEI/mqdefault.jpg)
ur way to explain the info is plan and clear
Thank you very much, I am really honored.
Hello CEE, Thank you for the introduction and for the reference [I almost always work in metric system and SI units. I therefore lack the intuitive feel of the order of magnitudes of imperial system units and their values. I often find myself having to first convert everything to metric, this can be a pain sometimes]. The PCA reference that you have mentioned is very good and it is practical. Both theory, concepts, and design recommendations have been comprehensively well presented in this reference.
In response to the CEE comment at 14:27; I say yes, if possible, I would like to see CEE touch on the design of the walls (and hopefully in future videos, the design of the foundations for these walls and the tank).
In addition to the reinforcements that resist “Bending moment” in the horizontal and in the vertical directions of the walls. It seems that additional reinforcements are also required to resist “ring tension” or “tensile hoop stress” to resist the bursting effect of the walls. It would be great if CEE can touch on how the results or values of the “ring tension or hoop stress” are interpreted from RSAP; and how the reinforcements are provided for the ring tension in RSAP on the proposed design video.
The BS 8007 (if I am not mistaken) used to limit the crack width from 0.1mm to 0.2mm max (I am not exactly sure what the current = year 2022 crack widths limits or requirements are). Is there a “design module” in RSAP for the assessment of the crack width at service loads for the provided reinforcements? If so, can CEE touch on this as well on the proposed wall design video?
Is it fair to assume that the “strange moments” at 12h48 …..”because of limitations or inaccuracies in the FE method….” should be ignored in the design of the vertical or horizontal reinforcements in favour of the moments values from the rest of the elements that are NOT “….near the connections of the two plates…?” Does the two plates connection point affect other results such as ring tension, etc. at this point?
You mentioned at 13:14 about “smoothing”, would understanding what “smoothing” is help the designer to decide on the “strange moments” and the connection of the two plates above? Or is the concept of smoothing something else altogether that is rather concerned with smoothened and calculated averages on nodes? [apologies if I am not making sense, I do not really understand what I am saying here 😊]
Lastly and with regards to the modelling of the connection between the dome and the top of the circular tank walls. I have seen that usually a “ring beam” is used at this connection. I have noticed that a direct connection was used on this video without a ring beam, is this direct connection also sufficient? If CEE is aware of the ring beam usage in this connection, can you touch on how does the two connection models (with and without ring beam) compare with each other?
Once again, thank you CEE for a well produced introductory tutorial, I have enjoyed it!
On the lighter note: I love the clarity of the presentation about the disclaimer at 7:00, it is hard to miss and yet it is also equally (if not more) informative.
Hello there, thanks for your comment.
Yeah I do have the same problem with Imperial units to be honest.
Still the PCA reference is good and can help you realize the aspects of circular tanks.
Following your comment, I will then add the design of water tanks to my list. ^_^
Yes, It slipped my mind to show you the horizontal hoop forces, which are tensile. You are right, there as every bit dangerous as the vertical moments.
The inaccuracy is due to the limitations of the FEM method. I will have to - personally - dive deeper into this before I release a video to the public.
It intrigued me personally, and I decided to keep it in the video as a small intriguing hint to my audience, something that you have picked up ^_^
smoothing is a really long story to discuss here, I am planning to hold - in the future - video lectures about various civil engineering subjects. Still, I do not want to simply answer the question like that, but:
I can refer you to: A first course in the finite element method by Daryl L. Logan. and here is a quote:
!!!! Quote Start !!!!
"An alternative procedure sometimes is to use an average (possibly weighted)
value of the stresses evaluated at each node of the element. This averaging method is
often based on evaluating the stresses at the Gauss points located within the element
(described in Chapter 10) and then interpolating to the element nodes using the
shape functions of the specific element. Then these stresses in all elements at a common
node are averaged to represent the stress at the node. This averaging process is called
smoothing. Figure 7-11 shows a maximum principal stress ‘‘fringe carpet’’ (dithered)
contour plot obtained by smoothing
"
!!! Quote End !!!
For the connection, I agree. a direct connection is not really practical, as some sort of "stiffening" has to be performed to ensure the rigidity of the connection between the dome and the wall. Thus, a ring beam is usually provided there.
I thought that I want to try to focus on the "trick of modeling circular stuff", which is the reason why I named the video "modeling circular walls and domes" and left the tank in the end of the sentence
Still, to be honest, I am quite disappointed with my performance in this video. I think it was not of usual quality. I am preparing a simplified raft video "mat foundation" to redeem myself ^_^
The disclaimer had to be smashed in the middle of the screen, coz I did not want to start explaining all the details of choosing the thickness of walls. That is why I referenced the PCA document. It includes a lot of useful information with regard to that issue.
Anyways, I am always happy with all comments
Regards.
CEE
@@CivilEngineeringEssentials Wow, I could not have hoped for better answers, thank you so much for your feedback and for the additional reference.
For me, you are extremely knowledgeable [Respect!], you are honest with your knowledge and you do not pretend to know everything. CEE encourages the viewers not to shy away from uncertain topics or subject but to rather explore those topics and to learn from them.
As far as I am concerned, you have NOTHING to be disappointed about. You are correct, this tutorial did remain focused to its title and it have clearly covered various ways and "tricks of modelling circular stuff". More than this, CEE also offered the viewers opportunity to comment if they are interested on additional topics and subjects such as design of circular tank walls.
I am in admiration of the CEE performance and quality in THIS tutorial 💯 (as I am in all other past tutorials so far). Hold your head high, you have done nothing wrong.
Um excelente tutorial, parabéns e obrigado por disponibilizar!
Muito bem-vindo. Desejo-lhe tudo de bom (Google Tradutor ^_^)
Thank you
Great video
Please do a detailed tank design video
oh with water pressure and reinforcement, alright, I will try to make one
PS: Sorry for the late reply. I had a ton of things to finish and now I am gradually getting back
Hi bro can u make one video about complete design and analysis of circular water tank and generate the detailed drawing from robot structural analysis... Plz
That is a really great suggestion. I am still struggling to finish my RC building series, I think I should check this or a bridge out next.
Regards,
CEE
Tq
Great tutorial as usual
Thanks CEE 💯
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. I know this video is a little below average (to be honest), I will push harder next video.
Thank you very much for this video. Could you please do a complete design of a water tank?
You are most welcome. I would consider that after I finalize my RC building design series, that is quite an interesting idea.
Good job thanks
Thank you, most welcome. Stay tuned for more.
Great video, how do you change the material to S275 steel? It is currently Concrete
Hi there,
you have to define a thickness and make sure you select the correct material before you model
In other words, in order to modify the material, you have to modify the thickness. It is kind of weird, but well, it is how RSA is doing things ^_^
Thank you very much for your comment and stay tuned for more content,
CEE
Hi, can you revise my water tank model?
Best regards from Portugal
Would honor me. but I need some time because I am at the moment busy preparing exams (in my full time job) and videos (for my passionate CEE Channel).
Thanks for your sharing! Can I ask one please? most of your VDO using Robot you used only Building Design? why not in Shell Design or Frame 3D Design for Steel etc..? Can you please help make the VDO explain?
Sure, I will add it to my TODO list.
I have a "transmission tower" vdo planned.
Regards,
CEE
Thank you very much for your kind
y on earth my ROBOT edition is missing a tool here or their first it was the CFD simulation now the revolve and the other tools in its group😑😑
ok I found the revolve but the project have to be shell structure option as the student starts a project from the main interface
Really? if that is the case, check if changing the structure type magically makes it re-appear.
It seems those people at Autodesk kind of messed things up here and there. They tried to simplify things, but made it convoluted
Oh, good to know ^_^
15:58 who also does not have revolve option in his 2025 robot edition
Wow, the revolve issues seems worse than I thought. Might be hidden in different structure types.