Ha! That's cool. Well I think it's cool, most guys probably don't. I went to high school with a guy that drove an unrestored '65 Mustang coupe, six cylinder, three speed manual, and a bench seat. We didn't think much of it at the time. Now that I've seen thousands of '65 and '66 Mustangs over the years, turns out that not too many of them came with factory bench seats.
I have a 1 of 1 67 lemans; it was the first one built on a Sunday during 1st shift when the production line required mandatory overtime and was equipped with a 326 the 350 trans painted gulf turquoise poly... it's not for sale because I know what I have...
I had a 68 GTO that was cameo white with all black interior, bench seat, column shift 400 and 370 hp 400 open 10 bolt rear, power brakes, power steering, non a/c car , dog dish caps.. dual vanity mirrors and all interior lights ,rubber frt bumper, left side remote mirror.. and was 3 owner, sold new in my town.... traded it away... 😢
Ivory with a black interior, that's a good looking car. When did you drive it last? I gave this one to my son, he joined the Navy a year ago, it's his daily driver. We got it painted his senior year in high school, here's that video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 69 convertible. I had never heard of a bench seat for any year of the GTO because the shift console was between the front seats. But I see there were bench seats available. I take it the car had a steering column shifter? I still have my copy of The Big "Little" GTO Book. Might still be worth checking out.
I love drop-top Goats, beautiful cars! Yup, all GTOs came standard with bucket seats, it was part of the GTO package. If you wanted to, you could special order your GTO with a bench seat. They didn't care, they just installed a LeMans bench, easy enough, it's just that very few people wanted a LeMans bench in their GTO. On the GTO forum, there's a whole discussion page for bench seat GTOs, and it's estimated that it's about 1% of them that were ordered that way. Of the 1%, most had column shift automatics, like you mentioned. This car was special ordered with air conditioning, a four-speed manual transmission, and that silly bench seat.......and nothing else. Those are three odd choices, for your special order '68 GTO. I think it makes the car both weird, and rare, I mean really, how many GTOs had just these three options, and no other options? No power steering, no power brakes, none of the normal stuff. A four-on-the-floor bench seat GTO is somewhat rare, but they are out there. A 60s car with factory AC but no PS or PB is somewhat rare, but they are out there. This car is both, it's a rarity within a rarity. Not valuable rare, just very unusual rare. And weird. Air conditioning was big money back in those days, probably a $300 option, and that's a lot of money back when power steering and power brakes were relatively affordable options. In my video, at 10:41, you can see the PHS Report for this car, showing just how it was special ordered. And in this video, you can see it once we got it painted, what color was your '69 convertible, we went with Windward Blue on this one, it's a '69 color, check it out: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
My friend in high school (1985) had a '69 GTO with A/C and a 4 speed and hideaway lights. You could option them anyway you wanted back then. A bench seat in any GTO is odd for sure.
No doubt, and this is a special order car for sure. I've got a '68 Dodge Coronet R/T that's also a special order car, but it's not very unusual, 440, 727 Torqueflite, bucket seats, and get this, they deleted the R/T bumble bee stripe (that's not cool), oh and they ordered it with a black vinyl top (I'm not a fan of that either). I think I'll restore it without the vinyl top and with the bumble bee stripe. Here's the R/T, it needs a little work: ruclips.net/video/2AIx0NuB3y4/видео.html
I love the GTOs. But never owned one. I had a lot of the nova's and roadrunners, and still have a 67 firebird that has been garaged since the early 70s
An all original '67 Firebird? Very cool! It's like a time capsule. You should make a video about that car, and it's history, people would be interested to see that. I'd be interested to see that car!
Thanks! He's a good kid, he just joined the Navy, graduated boot camp last month. His car is painted now, looks pretty good, here's that video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 1968 GTO 400 4 speed on the floor with console PS/PB AiR Cond Hide away headlights and black Vinyl top that army green color...Black interior Am-FM Factory radio Painted it black...so it became/Black with Black interior/with Black Vinyl top..put the Chevelle SS wheels on it...But left the engine 100% stock...with a total rebuild....swapped it at the time for a Motion V8 Vega...
A triple black '68 GTO? 4 speed and and loaded with options like that? That's a great car! And if you leave that Pontiac 400 stock, it seems to live forever. I bought this one from an Air Force buddy, who had it since 1989, and he never rebuilt the engine, so if it was ever rebuilt, it was before 1989, which could very well be. My buddy bought it from another Air Force guy that hadn't owned it long, and he didn't know any of the car's history. It's bone stock though, I can tell that, still has the original cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds, and it runs too smooth to have even a mild cam in it. I'd like to pull a cylinder head, and check to see if it's .030" over or standard bore. Probably .030", but I'd like to check and see for sure. Too much work though, just for the sake of curiosity. It runs great so we just leave it alone, he drives it, and we fix what breaks, we put a new water pump on it last week. The odometer reads 64,000, so that's mostly like 164,000 and not 264,000, but you rarely know for sure with these old cars, my '63 Corvette has 296,000 documented miles on it, and if you just looked at it, you'd guess 196,000 for sure. The Vette's original engine lost a connecting rod bolt in 1973, with just 103,000 miles on it. I've still got that VIN stamped Corvette engine in my garage, and it's still rebuildable, it's on the to-do list. A '68 GTO with 164,000 miles on the original engine, wouldn't be breaking any records, but it's a good run for a late 60s car, if it is still standard bore. Just having the original VIN stamped engine in that GTO is nice, neither of my B body Mopars can say that, because a lot can happen in 50+ years. My wife's 2003 Ford Escape has 365,000 miles on the original engine though....and none of my old cars can compete with that. Yeah, some people don't like that this car was painted black, but not everyone is a fan of certain shades of green like your old '68 was originally, or that shade of gold that was popular in the 60s, or greenish-gold like this one was originally painted. My son wanted to paint it blue, and he paid for everything, and helped with the prep work, so blue it is. And I like it, here's what it looks like now: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 69 Nova that I sold to buy a 68 GTO. Had a good time that summer with it took my first boyfriend out of state he was underage to the beach in Maine. We had a ball. I let him drive the car back he enjoyed it so much we were both Gearheads! By October I traded the 68 GTO for a 70 Camaro. I should never have gotten rid of that car the GTO or the Camaro. Who knew?!
Well there's a lot to unpack there Dexter. I want to say, "That's awesome!", but when was this, and how old were you? And how old was your underage boyfriend? Just kidding, none of my business. I'm a fan of those '70 Camaros with the split front bumper, and '69 Novas are big money right now. My preference is mid-sized cars though, I like the old Goats a lot.
My brother Owned a 68 RamAirII Mayfair Maze, Black Vinyl Top, Black interior, Hideaway headlights, Hurst Dule Gate shifter. Come with optional Positrack 410re I believe !! That thing had to be very rare GTO Just for the options alone. Sadly it met its end against a Sycamore Tree !! I could just imagine what that thing would be worth today. I think he bought it in 1979 !! Drove it almost daily for 5/6yrs
Your brother had a great car, rare for sure. Those are the options that I'd want on a '68 GTO, and a hood tach, I'd want that too. I love the hide-away headlight cars, but I'm kind of glad this one doesn't have it, seems like a pain when they don't work right. And I've run 4.11 gears before, Detroit Locker in pretty much all of the old Mustangs I've owned......4.11s are a lot of fun.....for a while, and then it gets to be a bit much when you don't have overdrive. :) Mayfair Maize is a nice color, I like it.
@@owenrobertson Pretty sure it was a Org 242 car No hood tach tho. I know the later Duel Gates like late yr 68s and in 69 Pontiac was producing their own. Marc's Had HURST Engraved into the shifter. Maybe a Hurst badge on the glove box. Been long time ago lmao. Him and his buddy did a little magic and had it mid 400s Rwhp. Stock was 365 I think. Paired with the 410 posi,That thing was very quick stop light to stop light. Watched him beat up on a few 454 Chevy cars. And a few 440/383 cars as well . His best friend Had a 69 Hemi Cuda that was Stupid fast and Dangerous!! 500+ rwhp. And that was a shit ton in the late 70s early 80s !! Hell.. if we could get 400hp out of our pos 30 over 350s, we thought we were kings !! Hahaha
I really can't complain too much, My 1st car was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. 302, Baby Blue, Black strips, with dule hood scoops !! Awesome little car !! Traded it for a 1978 Plymouth Trail Duster !! Hahaha
@@mocarpenter8836, those old Trail Dusters are cool. Did you have the top off it? I've got a '75 Bronco that didn't have a top when I bought it. I've owned it for over 20 years, never had a top for it. Yeah, your brother had that GTO in 1979, I bet there weren't a lot of well done clones back then, so if it absolutely looked like a '68 GTO in 1979, it was most likely a real 242 car. You're right about horsepower back in the 70s and 80s, if you had 400 at the rear wheels, that was a lot. When I was a senior in high school in 1988, it didn't take much to make my '65 Mustang quicker than any brand new 1988 Mustang, Camaro, or Corvette, those were all mid-15 second quarter mile cars in stock trim, and it's always been pretty easy to get an old street car to run 13s, especially a light car like your Maverick, or my Mustang. New cars now are crazy fast, my buddy just upgraded from an all wheel drive Evo to an all wheel drive AMG Mercedes. And that's the other thing, even if you've got 800hp in your old muscle car, good luck from stop light to stop light against an all wheel drive car. Just for fun, I put a mild .060" over 460 in a '69 Mustang that I used to own, it was fun alright, and it ran an 11.99 1/4 mile at Darlington, but on the street it was worthless. It needed a sticky track and slicks, so on the street from stop light to stop light, it was useless, it just lit up the tires. Doesn't matter, I'm old now, I just like to cruise, I was driving around town in my daughter's '55 Pontiac today, great car, super slow, but fun to put around town in. I just love old cars, Mopar, Pontiac, Chevy, Ford, I even bought a Studebaker, but I haven't got it running yet.
Well I knew I liked ya !! Hahaha I'm a 1985 Graduate. My brother was a 82 Graduate. I'll be 55 the 21st of this month. Married to my Wonderful, Beautiful wife 35 yrs, 5 kids, 3 Grandkids. 2 mortgages lmao !! My oldest son is 36, and my youngest daughter is 13. My Granddaughter is also 13 😒😒 😂😂 I drove that Trail Duster for 3/4 yrs daily!! 360 2 Barrel... mmmm maybe 318 🤔 We took the top off Every Summer!! I could do it myself if need be. But 2 dude's have that thing off in 3mins!! It was actually a nice Trail Duster Sport. It was Copper colored with an Off White 4x4 Double stripe down each side and a smaller of the same decal on the tailgate. Nothing to big under it, 31x10x50s. It was a ton of fun @ the river. We are from Morgantown WV if you know where that is. Home of The WVU Mountaineers !! Oh BTW Marc's was the 2nd owner of her. Bought it off the Org owner. He bought it new. Straight out of the service in 68, drove it 5/6yrs, then put it away in his family's Garage and it sat under roof for 7or 8 yrs when Marc Bought it. Come to think it may have been 80 or close to 81 when he bought it !! To dang long ago haha.
Pontiac built almost 88K GTO’s in 1968. It’s hard to call ANYTHING that is mass produced in large numbers by GM rare. But maybe this guy is on to something. 🤔🤔🤔
Maybe. It's up for discussion. No one can say for sure, but I think I make a pretty good argument. I'm no GTO expert, but the guys on the GTO forum claim that only 1% of GTOs came with bench seats, since bucket seats were standard on GTO. None of the GTO experts on the forum seem to dispute that 1% claim, even though I'm sure it's just an educated guess. So now that 88k quickly narrows down to just 880 GTOs with bench seats (ballpark). Of those 880 bench seat '68 GTOs, way more than half have column shift automatic transmissions, because if you're going out of you way to order a bench seat in a GTO, you might not be the three-speed or four-speed type in the first place. So I think it's safe to say that most were automatic cars, and obviously some had to have been three-speed cars. That leaves us with maybe 200 bench seat four-speed '68 GTOs, or 300, or maybe even 400, but it would be hard to argue that there were more than 400 made, unless you can disprove the 1% idea. PHS has all the raw data that would answer this question, they have every '68 GTO's VIN and option list on microfiche. Without my PHS report, I'd never have known that this car never had power steering on it, because there's no code for that on the cowl tag, and I've never found a build sheet for any of the cars I've owned. Unfortunately, that microfiche won't last forever, and so far PHS has never put it all into a searchable database. Maybe someday, someone will buy all that microfiche and load it all it into an internet database, where it can be preserved forever. Without that searchable database, it's all just talk, but I think it's fun......so let's call it 400 bench seat four-speed GTOs for the sake of this argument. How many were April Gold, with a Parchment interior? Some of them for sure, although it's not the most popular color combination. Now how many had air conditioning as the only other option? This is where it gets tricky, because it's something people never think about. I've been into 60s cars since I was 15. How many 60s cars have any of us seen that had factory A/C, but no power steering or power brakes? Some of them for sure, but not many right? It's a small percentage overall. You don't ever think about it, but when you do, when you think of all the 60s cars that you or your friends have owned, or the cars you've seen at shows, or on the internet, how many had just factory A/C and nothing else? A/C was a big money option, like $300 I think. Most people that had the money for A/C, had the money for way more affordable options like PS or PB, or both. And I don't think the factory built many A/C only cars, hoping it's what the general public would want, but again my son's GTO was special ordered, so what the factory would build on their own doesn't even matter. One guy on the GTO forum told me, " So what? Anyone could special order anything they wanted back then, so anyone could order a one-of-one car." He didn't like my video, and he was disagreeing with me, but he made my point. I think that sums it up, because whoever ordered this GTO, picked three things that most people wouldn't pick. Bench seat, four-speed, A/C, and nothing else. Looking at what you could order for a '68 GTO, those aren't the three things I would have picked. It's just a weird car, that's all.
Yeah, but he only checked off three options......and that's if you count the bench seat as an "option" and not as a "downgrade". He wanted the bench seat instead of the standard GTO bucket seats, he wanted the four-speed instead of the standard three-speed manual transmission, and he wanted air conditioning. He was happy enough with the standard GTO engine, the four-barrel 400 with 350hp. And he was fine with the standard gears, 3.23 : 1 open (the standard gear ratio for A/C equipped GTOs). Weird right? That's a very unusual way to option out a GTO. A/C was as expensive option back then, probably over 250 bucks. I can just see the Pontiac salesman trying to sell him on PS and PB as well, which were most likely 30 or 40 dollar options, but he didn't want any of that. In my opinion, there's only one way that Pontiac built another '68 GTO just like this one, and that's if this weirdo had a twin brother that ordered the exact same car.
Thanks! We got it painted, came out pretty decent, check it out: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html That's a good question on the pedal trim, because this '68 GTO for sure has it, and not just on the gas, brake, and clutch.....has the trim on the emergency brake pedal as well. I checked my PHS report, and if you fast forward to 10:57, where air conditioning is highlighted on my PHS, 9 rows up from that, it lists "custom pedal trim plates", but it's not highlighted, as a selected option. So either someone installed those at some point, since 1968, or they were part of the '68 GTO's decor package. I did a google search and found this discussion: www.gtoforum.com/threads/what-determines-if-pedals-had-trim-67.136075/ People seem to agree that for a '67 GTO, that pedal trim is only there if you ordered power brakes, like you said. That seems to have changed by 1968, when it became part of the GTO's decor package, according to original owners of non-power '68 GTOs in that discussion thread. It's discussed here as well: forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?817130&p=5871263#post5871263 That's a good observation you made, one that's sparked conversation in the past, among GTO owners, and to be honest, I never even paid any attention to that pedal trim. So I learned something new today. Thanks!
I would have to agree that the options package whoever ordered it is very rare. I would also, like yourself, it probably doesn't add to the value.....don't think it would hurt the value either
Yup, it's weird car, just something to talk about. When I bought it, all I saw was a '68 GTO with a four-speed. Months went by before I figured out that there was something even a little bit odd about it. Mostly I just like old cars....and four-speeds....and this one is fun to drive. My son likes it. He drives it every day to school and work, I haven't driven it since we made the follow-up video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Finally, someone that knows what rare means. It just means seldom occurring or found. I've upset a lot of people with this video, because they think rare means special. And I never said special, or valuable, or even desirable. I knew what I was doing though, I know the hobby, and when you make the 1-of-1 claim, it gets people all riled up. I'm just here having fun though. I just like old cars. It's a fun hobby. And getting people all riled up can be fun as well. :)
@@owenrobertson I myself am a classic/ muscle car enthusiast. I was raised by 2 woman who raced cars my mom who raced nothing but GTO's and my grandmom who raced nothing but chryslers. So I pride myself in knowing a thing or 2 when it comes to classic/ muscle cars , that being said I think everyone knows exactly what you were referring to but like that saying goes " opinions are like A holes, everyone has 1 🤣 but to say a yellow gold bench seat 4spd Goat isn't rare is just ignorance. I've never seen 1. And I seriously doubt anyone who put in their 2 cents have either. Just laugh at the upset meat heads who think they sit on a throne with their " opinions" because that's all they are. And it twists their panties 🤣🤣😋
That's awesome! Your mom and your grandma! Awesome! Yeah, this GTO is April Gold and the options are A/C, four-speed, bench seat....and nothing else. And that's if you can call the LeMans bench an option, if anything it's a special order "downgrade", since the GTO package included bucket seats standard, at no additional cost. How many GTOs have a bench seat and a four speed? Not many, way less than 1% of them. Now how many GTOs have A/C, but no PS or PB? Not many of those either, you don't see it much at all, in any 60's car. Weird right? The guy that special ordered this car was weird. He didn't order up the kind of muscle car that most people back then wanted. Most guys wanted a stripped down car, with just the four speed and best engine, or they wanted something fully loaded, to impress their neighbors....or something in between. This car isn't any of that, it's out in left field somewhere. Still, there's always hope, more people have seen this video than any of my other videos, and maybe someone who sees this video will know of a car just like mine. I'd get a kick out of that too. We're in agreement. It's a fun hobby!
@@owenrobertson please post a vid of her with the new color. Don't need to be all trimmed out whatsoever !! I got my niece a 01 Mustang that smacked a couple guard rails for cheap , lol but I did the body work and did the Maaco $299 paint special and that sumbich came out like a new penny !! Haha some orange peel but hey for the money it was amazing !! And still after 6 yrs it still looked good. Listen we all had our ideas of what we wanted our machines to look like at that age. Time and life will play its part 1 day and I hope he keeps it , even if it's sitting in the garage door down the road that he can carry on"tradition" with his boy 😉 much respect to you and your family. Please do a walk around on the old girl !!
Just find me on facebook, recent pics of the blue GTO there. Not too many guys named Owen Robertson on facebook. I'm the one that looks like Gru wetsanding a '68 GTO, in my facebook profile photo.
Yeah, over on the GTO forum, there's a whole section for just bench seat GTOs, and some of them have four-speeds no doubt. Rare GTOs but they exist for sure. What makes this car interesting, in my opinion, is that it was special ordered with only three options, the bench seat, the four-speed, and the air conditioning, and nothing else. Everything else on this car, when it was ordered, is standard GTO equipment. And bench seat isn't even on the GTO options list, so this guy really only picked two options from the list, four-speed and A/C....then he asked them for a LeMans bench seat downgrade. It's just a weird set of choices. No PS, no PB, just those three things. I think if it's late 1967 and you're ordering a '68 GTO, and you only get three choices to create a one-of-one car that no one else wants, then those are three very solid choices. I don't think many people wanted those three things and nothing else on a GTO. Another good set of three for a '68 GTO would be the LeMans chrome front bumper, the LeMans bench seat, and air conditioning. At some point, you have to wonder, why not just save a whole bunch of money and buy a '68 LeMans rather than the GTO, because if I was ordering a '68 GTO, and I was looking at the available options list, and I could only have three options, I'd take the 360hp 400 with ram air, the four-speed, and the performance rear axle (3.55 posi, 3.90 posi, something like that). I've run 4.11s in cars before, too steep for me, it gets old. I like the 3.73s in my Corvette, those work great with that car's close-ratio Muncie. I don't see 3.73s as an option in my PHS report, though, just 3.55, 3.90, and 4.33, so I'd probably be fine with 3.55 posi. My son's GTO came with 3.23 open gears, which was standard on GTO if you ordered the air conditioning. Good engine, good trans, good gears....and that's all I'd need. If I didn't care about those three things, I'd probably just buy the LeMans. It's like the '70 Mach 1 I used to own, it had the 4V 351C, automatic transmission, A/C, PS, and PB, and 3.00 : 1 open gears in the 9" rear, it's an expensive options list, and it's not how I would have ordered it. A/C was a big money option back then, around $300 I think. The automatic transmission was expensive was well, over $200. I'd get that car with the 428SCJ, shaker hood scoop, four-speed, and a respectable third member. You really don't need air conditioning, power brakes, or power steering, that's just more stuff to break, more stuff to worry about. Just roll the windows down if it's hot. Cold air induction for the engine is nice to have though. Of course, I've never been a big fan of brand new cars, so even if I did have a time machine to 1967, once there, maybe I wouldn't order a new '68 GTO. I'd probably shop for Harrison Ford's '55 Chevy from American Graffiti, or one like it. I just like old cars. :)
If your counting the 60s cars with no ps or pb. I have a 66 chevelle 300 deluxe that is a 2 dr sedan delete ps,pb car with ac. 327 auto. It's black with the blood red interior. I will get it rolling soon as I get a chance.
Love that body style Chevelle! Black with red interior, great car! Is there a link to some pics, I'd love to see it. My son's GTO just got painted, I'll have a new video up, as soon as we put the trim back on. Yeah, it would be fun to get a count of us oddball guys with factory A/C cars that don't have PS or PB. It's not something that you can google search, it's just something that I've noticed is a rarity in probably any car, but 60s cars for sure. It would be funny if some AMC guy showed up right now, to let us know that A/C only was very common in the Rambler. It's something you don't think about though, until you buy a car with A/C and no PS or PB. When I bought this GTO, I figured that it was an A/C and PS car, and that someone had converted it to manual steering, tired of power steering fluid leaks or something. Someone removed the A/C compressor for some reason at some point in time, you never know with these old cars, over so many decades, anything can happen.
Nice goat.I had a friend who bought a new verdoro green 68 with a black bench seat interior and 360hp 4 speed. When I got back from the army the goat was gone and had been replaced by a grabber blue Boss 429 Mustang. Your car with a/c on a 4-speed w/o ps or pb is an unusual combination. I agree with you, most of the GTOs with factory a/c and bench seat (which was kind of rare) were usually automatics. I had a bucket seat verdoro green 68 4 speed car. I still regret selling it in 1975. Your car might be a one of one.
Thanks for sharing stories like that, young guys like me can't even answer the American Graffiti question, "Where were you in '62?", because we were born in or around 1970. Well I was born in '70. I think I'm part of the American Graffiti wanna be generation. I've heard some interesting Boss '9 stories from guys that were in the position to buy a new car back then. I've heard of insane dealer markups, because that dealership only had one of them and it was on the showroom floor bringing in traffic, and they had no intention of selling it. Then when the '71 Mustangs came out, I've heard of left over 1970 Boss 429s being practically given away.
Yeah, I only know about April Gold because I bought an April Gold car. I don't normally pay much attention to vintage car colors, unless they are really stand out colors that grab me, like Orbit Orange, or B5 Blue in the Mopar world, I like all the "high impact" Mopar colors too, but B5 Blue has always been a favorite of mine. I like the blue that they put on midyear Corvettes as well, Nassau Blue. I googled Harvest Gold, and found a 1970 Buick in that color, so I googled 1970 Buick paint codes, and Harvest Gold is one of them. I'm not sure what other years it was used, or what Pontiac would have called that shade of gold. I recognize it though, I've seen it on a bunch of GM cars. Harvest Gold and April Gold are completely different, though. April Gold is a greenish-gold color, it's nice enough, looks like this: cwrestorations.com/1968-gto-april-gold/
Very true, but I've got three 2-barrels on my V code Road Runner, and it's 100% pain in the ass, and 0% performance enhancing, I'd be better off with a single Holley. If three 2-barrels was good for power, and not just a gimmick, you'd see a lot more of it at the drag strip, because those guys like making big power. Like you said though, the early days of high compression and big solid cams were great for making power, my Vette's L76 came stock with 11.25 : 1 compression, solid lifter cam, factory aluminum intake, and a single four barrel. You can make decent horsepower that way, and it came stock with the close ratio Muncie four-speed and 4.11 posi, so from stoplight to stoplight, when it was new in '63, it would have been hard to beat, because it didn't weigh much either. You had the hot rods back in '63, like the '32 Ford and '55 Chevy in American Graffiti, they'd take it, but there weren't many new for '63 cars that would have taken my Vette back when it was brand new. No GTO yet, no 426 hemi yet, sure you had the 406 Galaxie that became the 427 Galaxie in '63 1/2, and you had the 409 Impala, both great cars, but full-sized cars, and too heavy. You had the Cobra, but when my Vette hit the streets in May of 1963, there were only 100 of those ever sold, 75 with the 260 V8, and 25 of them with the 289 (according to Wikipedia, and I don't doubt it, I toured the Shelby museum in Vegas, and that sounds about right), no 427 Cobra yet, that's for sure. Of course Mopar had the 413 Max Wedge in '62, replaced by the 426 Max Wedge in '63, not a hemi, but absolutely built for the quarter mile, either of those engines with 11 : 1 compression would have been more than a match for my Vette's 327, but Mopar also offered 13.5 : 1 compression in those Max Wedge engines......Mopar didn't mess around, they were selling factory high 11, low 12 second cars in 1963. And then of course, from '64 to '71, there would be a lot more competition on the road, but back in '63, I think that's the race, and of course the Beach Boys wrote a song about it, "Shut Down": ruclips.net/video/thXjTd1AWNo/видео.html And on the topic of sixties music, and the great GTOs made before 1968 that you mentioned, Ronny and The Daytonas sang, "Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine Three deuces and a four-speed and a 389". Fun song. I used the Beach Boy's cover of that song in the video where my son's GTO gets painted: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine, a single quad and a four-speed and a 400....well yeah, doesn't have the same ring to it, but it's still a great car, and it goes down the road just fine.
That '68 GTO is advertised at 10.7 : 1 compression, and it runs fine on 87 octane, so I think Pontiac fudged that number a bit, just like my '70 Mach 1's 4V Cleveland was advertised at 11 : 1 compression, Mustang guys know what it wasn't a true 11 : 1, closer to 10.7 I think, and a bunch of us had our heads shaved a bit to make it a true 11 : 1, and I could not run 87 octane in that Mach 1 with 11 : 1 compression, it needed 91 octane or better. So the GTO is a daily driver and goes fine on 87 octane, and my Vette's original VIN stamped 11.25 : 1, 340hp engine is sitting on the floor of my garage, and my Vette currently has a 300hp Corvette 327 that the original owner installed in 1973 after the original L76 lost a rod bolt on 20 Feb 73, back when that car only had 103,100 miles on it. The light bulb that burns bright, burns out at 103k, I guess. So with the lower compression, hyd cam, 300hp 327, that car runs fine on 87 octane as well. Even the Road Runner is good on 87 octane, and all of that is fine, because these cars are daily drivers, and back before I sold the Mach 1, that car was also a daily driver, and it was killing me at the gas pump. As for performance, well when I was driving my '65 Mustang back in the 80s, I totally wanted that, I was working at an automotive machine shop, doing all the head work, and I port and polished my Mustang's 289 heads and installed oversized SBC stainless valves, guide plates, roller rockers....I put TRW forged flat tops in it, a solid Sig Erson cam, Edelbrock intake, Holley four-barrel, Hooker headers, Comp 9000 Mallory distributor, manual valve body B&M C6, and 4.11 Detroit Locker in the 8" rear end. I was shopping way too much at Super Shops in Fresno, CA and that car was night and day from when I bought it. From stoplight to stoplight, that little 289 '65 Mustang would really move, and it was a lot of fun. No dragstrips near where I lived, so we raced out on the country roads, and I didn't know exactly how quick it was, but the new Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes were no match for it. They were all running what? Mid to high 15s back in the late 80s? Knowing what I know now, from when I was stationed in Utah and Las Vegas, and drag racing my 351C '70 Mach 1, which started out running high 15s in Utah at 4,200 feet elevation, and then after getting the exact same sort of treatment that my '65 got, ended up running high 13s in Utah, low 13s in Vegas, and a high 12 at sea level at Sacramento Raceway......I figure my lighter '65 Mustang with it's smaller 289 was probably a mid to high 13 second car at sea level. That's slow these days of course, but back in the 80s, that was fairly quick for a run of the mill daily driver owned by a teenager. Now, you can see from my youtube videos, that I'm still living in the past, I've got a massive 8 track collection, and they all play, its mostly what I listen to, and I've got 10 classic cars, counting the three that really aren't mine anymore, because I gave them to my kids. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and I never will, what I've got gets me around just fine, but I have no desire to hot rod any of them. My Vette, my Road Runner, my '65 fastback, my son's '68 GTO, they are all slow, and they can all stay that way, because I may be living in the past, but I see what's on the road these days, and I'm not trying to race any of them. Car makers have come a long way from 1988 when the "fast" Mustangs and Camaros were running 15s. Today, you can't even race a diesel pickup truck, because that guy might be running 30 pounds of boost, it's crazy. Not to mention all of the all-wheel-drive cars with factory turbo. Add some additional boost to that factory boost, and what sixties muscle car is going to compete from stoplight to stoplight? Those guys don't need to worry about traction, and if there's one thing I learned from putting 472 cubic inches under the hood of a '69 Mustang fastback, is that traction is the first thing to go, it's just silly, even with 18" wide tires and 3.50 Detroit Locker, that car spins those tires like crazy, you don't go anywhere. The only place that car gets traction is at the dragstrip, on a sticky track, and even then, only with slicks, and the best it's ever ran is a very high 11, so what's the point? Back in my day, if you wanted to change your valve timing, you bought a trick Milodon double-roller timing chain, with multiple advance and retard keyway grooves, and if you advanced it 2 degrees, you were stuck with that. If you wanted to trick out your spark timing, you might disconnect your vacuum advance, and buy an assortment of color-coded centrifugal advance springs, but in the end, you set your total timing with a timing light, locked down your distributor, and that's where it stayed. You got the total timing you wanted for full-throttle performance, and hopefully your initial spark timing was still something you could live with. For fuel, we just dumped enough in, so that we weren't running lean, better to be a little rich, than a little lean. These days, computers control all of that, valve timing, spark timing, fuel, and more. It's all variable, it's hard to compete with that alone, but then they add boost, and now they're making seven or eight hundred horsepower, it's pretty impressive. Turbo technology has come a long way since the 80s. I raced a kid in '88, he snuck out his dad's brand new Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. Smoked him with my low tech '65 Mustang, he wanted to try again, and this time he blew the turbo. What good is a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, if you can't floor the thing on a brand new car, without blowing up the turbo? My buddy's mom had an 80-something Dodge turbo K car, and he blew the turbo on that one. Not these days, these days, guys are running insane amounts of boost, and it seems to be holding together. Not for me though, I like old cars, new cars can never look this good, not if they want to meet safety standards, and pass impact testing. Mostly old cars are just easy to work on. Sure they break, but when they do break, it's a lot more fun than working on my wife's 2003 Ford Escape. I was shocked when I figured out how much work it was for me to replace the alternator on her car: ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html I'll stick to what I know best. I like the way old cars look, I like the way they drive and how you can feel the road, I like a Hurst four-speed shifter in my hand, I like how I can fix them cheap and easy, and mostly I like talking about them. I like meeting guys in town that also love old cars, and I like hearing their stories. I meet more car guys in Dollar General parking lots than I do at car shows, because when I'm driving to Dollar General, or anywhere else in town, I'm driving an old car. :)
Maybe someday, but not just yet. My son is 18, and he didn't want a greenish-gold color. I get it, it's an old man's color. This car was built to last though. If he still has this GTO in 30 or 40 years, maybe he'll want to paint it back to it's original April Gold. After we finished all the body work, we took it to Maaco, and they painted it dark blue. It's pretty close to Windward Blue, a fairly common '69 GTO color. It looks pretty good for a driver, and there's no point putting a crazy expensive show quality paint job on a teenager's car. We were all teenagers once, and we know how that might end up. My next video will show some of the body work we did, and it'll show the painted car. It'll be up on youtube after we put the mirrors, grille, emblems, antenna, trim, etc....back on. He's going to school full time, and working a lot on top of that, but hopefully we get it back together soon. Right now it's just sitting in one of my garages.
Everyone says “I used to have”. Well I can say I do have a 65 GTO 389 four speed #’s matching triple black original paint 33k original miles! Garaged kept! What do you guys think the price is around? Thank you
Your '65 GTO is a big money car, no doubt, but more importantly it's a truly great car. I'm not in this hobby for the money. I wasn't in it for the money in 1985, and not now either. I've talked to lots of guys that got "big money" for their 60s car that they sold in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, or last year. They all regret selling what they had, eventually they regret it, especially if all they got was money, and they never bought another classic car. Money isn't as fun as old cars, and it doesn't last as long. I can hold onto an old car for decades, but put money in my pocket and it's gone in no time. I'm not a "used to have" kind of guy either. If I sell a car, it's only because I've got another car already lined up. Sold my '70 Mach 1 because there was a '55 Pontiac I wanted, sold my '67 Sunbeam Alpine because there was a '61 Studebaker Hawk I wanted, sold my '69 Mustang because there was a '68 Coronet R/T I wanted. My tastes have changed over the years, but the bottom line is the same, I just love old cars and I love working on them. I'll die some day, and my wife or my kids will have to sell whatever old cars are still at my house. That's how I got my '63 Corvette, the original owner died, the wife left the car in the garage, 20 years later the wife died, and their kids sold everything on estate auction, the house, the cars, everything. When that happens, there's always someone willing to pay big money for a '63 Corvette, until all the '63 Corvette fans die off as well. Kids today don't know what a split window coupe is, and they don' t care. 30 years from now, those kids aren't going to be at Mecum or Barrett Jackson fighting each other for an 89 year old Corvette. They might get into a bidding war over a Dodge Hellcat, or some other car that reminds them of their youth, but some old 60s car, that's almost 100 years old, by the time they've got fat 401k's.....I'm not seeing it. I don't think they'll want it. It's all about supply and demand, supply stays the same, my Vette is safely tucked away in my garage, your GTO is safely tucked away in your garage, the supply of cars is safe, but the demand won't live forever. I'm 52, and most car guys I know are my age or older, some are old enough to remember the American Graffiti days of the hobby. I'm too young to remember 1962. I call my generation the American Graffiti wanna-bes. The generation after my generation, well the vast majority of those guys haven't even seen American Graffiti, and they just don't care. Some of the them care, but not many. You'll meet young guys at car shows, that enjoy looking at shiny vintage cars, but it's one thing to admire something, it's another thing to invest in the hobby, as you know, it takes a certain level of commitment, and it's not cheap. I've tried talking lots of guys into buying an entry level 60s car, something cheap to work on and fix up, I've offered to help them work on it.......no takers, people aren't interested, it's like when people see that I have four acres of land, and they tell me that I need to buy horses. Fuck that, I'm not buying horses, that looks like way too much work. I figure that's how kids today see old cars, a lot of them anyway. It's too bad, I'd love to see more classic cars on the road. I think a lot of kids today seem to be okay with never owning a car, new or old, they'll take the bus, and call for an Uber when the bus isn't good enough. They won't pay for gas, or registration, or insurance, or repairs, and to be honest, they'll save a ton of money, but they're missing out, it's still a great hobby, especially if you like turning wrenches and meeting new people. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and when you drive around town in any old car, and you'll meet someone new in at least half the parking lots you stop in. Like you said, most are guys that want to tell you about the cars they used to have, but that's okay, those guys have great stories to tell. It's just a fun hobby. And unlike most hobbies, it's a hobby you can take with you just about everywhere, even while doing boring stuff, like running errands around town. Do you have photos of your '65 GTO anywhere? If so, drop a link, or find me on facebook, I'd love to see it. Here's a link to my son's '68 GTO, after we got it painted: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I bought this GTO from an old Air Force buddy, when I first met him, we were in our early 20's, and both stationed in England. I had a '65 Mustang coupe, a '70 Mach 1, and a '66 Bronco at my mom's place in California, and he had this '68 GTO, a '70 'Cuda, and a '76 Nova stashed away with his family in Illinois. You don't see a lot of 4th gen Novas these days. Come to think of it, you didn't see a lot of them 30 years ago, either. It's cool that you know how a column shift manual works, most people don't. They say they do, then you find out that they don't. I think they used to know, then they forgot, because who really needs to know that now. Kind of like 8 tracks, I've had guys at car shows look at my 8 track player and tapes, and start telling me or their kid how it works, and they are way wrong, saying things like pull it out and flip it over. And these are guys that are older than me, so they used to know, and then it became irrelevant, and they just forgot. I'd explain it to them, but like I said, it's irrelevant technology, so why bother. I think some of these guys are mixing up 8 tracks and cassette tapes, that would explain that one guy that said flip it over to play tracks 3 and 4, memories are funny that way. Fun hobby though, I've restored close to 300 8 tracks, and it's a cheap hobby too, something to work on when I don't have money for car parts. I didn't know they were still putting three-on-the-tree in '76 Novas, the earliest car I ever came across with a five-speed was a Honda Civic, a '75 or '76 I think. One of my teachers was driving it in the early 80s, if I'm remembering correctly. We were well into the 80s before I started seeing five-speeds in American cars, 1983 for Mustang. And transmissions have come a long way since those days. That's okay, I'm still happy with a Muncie four-speed. I don't know much about new cars.....I just know what I like, and I like the old cars.
@@owenrobertson I've drove a three on a tree forklift before. Yeah people just don't know nowadays they've had square body Chevy trucks with three on the trees up until the 80s. The thing that they tracks is they just flip to the next track which is unique but which is probably what made him wear out over time. They just didn't keep playing through the whole song sometimes it would start out on one and then skip to the next set and then pick right up at the word left off at.
Probably somebody that ordered that car wanted a GTO with the four-speed but I bet had a family and they had that bench seat for a reason but managed to get their four-speed in GTO too
@@buckster2575, yeah, I worked at a Shell bulk oil yard when I was 17, that was 1987, and they gave me a flatbed Chevy with a hyd tommy lift to haul 55 gallon drums of oil around to all the farmers, wineries, etc. I don't know what year it was, 1980-something, and it had three-on-the-tree. They asked if I knew how to drive it when I applied for the job. That was when you went to your high school, told them you needed a job, and they sent you out to a business that needed you. It was easy for a kid to get a job back then. I told them that I could drive it, but I didn't know. I knew how to drive stick, but I should have at least asked them where 1st gear was. So they showed me how to move the drums around, they weighed over 400 pounds each, and how the lift worked, and how to strap them to the front of the bed.....then my boss gave me a map, and said take them here. Pretty cool that they trusted a 17 year old kid with all of that. So I got in, found first gear, putted out the yard, and learned to drive the thing as soon as I was down the road, and out of sight of my boss. Good times, it was a fun job when we were busy, when we weren't busy, I was supposed to "look busy", so I'd be out there just sweeping and sweeping again....I didn't like that part. They sold gas in that yard as well, and we had Shell leaded gas there, well after everyone else in town had stopped selling it, so that was good for my '65 Mustang.
@@buckster2575, I think you're right, big family, and you can seat six or seven with that bench seat, if you kids are small enough. Eight or nine if you stack them up in the back. Six is easy though, I've done that with my bench seat four-speed Road Runner. It's just odd that he didn't go with the LeMans and save some money. Speaking of money, I think that Muncie four-speed was about a $200 option, that's big money in the late sixties, when he could have gotten the floor-shift three-speed manual for free. I was thinking that the factory A/C this car has was about $250 back then, but I just found a Hemmings article that says A/C was $375 in a 1969 GTO. And that's a small fortune. I guess after those two options, he was done spending money, so he passed on the $105 power steering and the $65 power brakes. Here's that Hemmings article, and one very nice '69 convertible: www.hemmings.com/stories/2018/05/28/high-option-adoption-1969-pontiac-gto
In today's time these are some rare car's even thou it was like 90k of them made but im sure its less than 10k or 20k that's actually still driving around. The Bench seat's could have been swapped in. Ive never seen this kinda Gto with a bench seat
Bucket seats were standard on GTO, but you could special order a LeMans bench seat in a GTO, from the factory, if you really wanted one. The bench seat is factory original in this GTO. Fast forward to 10:41 in the video, it's the original Billing slip from 1967....printed out from microfiche by Pontiac Historical Services. I ordered the PHS report for this car, and the report decodes the billing slip. At 10:53 the PHS shows this GTO came with the parchment bench seat interior, but I already knew that, because that code is also on the car's cowl tag, seen decoded in this video at 1:37, here's the link: ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html This '68 GTO came from the factory with only three options, the four-speed, the bench seat, and air conditioning......and that's it, someone dropped over $300 in late 1967 for A/C, but they didn't want power steering or power brakes, which were much more affordable options. It's rare to see a 60s car with factory A/C, but no PS, PB....or both. It's rare to see a GTO with a bench seat, but about 1% of GTOs were ordered with the bench seat, and there's a whole section in the GTO forum for the bench seat GTOs. It's also rare to see a '68 GTO with a bench seat and four on the floor, because most guys that wanted a bench seat muscle car, were just fine with a column shift automatic. I'd argue that it's extremely rare to see a '68 GTO, ordered exactly like this one was ordered. No big deal, just weird, the rare GTO that you want is the one with ram air, a four-speed, and a top that goes down. This '68 GTO is a fun car though, and the guy that ordered it in 1967 was marching to a different beat, those aren't the three options I would have picked. I don't know anyone that would option out a '68 GTO like this one. Mostly it's just a fun car. My son and I have had a lot of fun working on it. We got the body work done, and painted it. It was originally April Gold, and then it was painted black in the 80s. My son wanted blue, so it's Windward Blue now, a '69 GTO color. This car is 54 years old, and shouldn't have any issues surviving the next 54 years. It's a solid car, and my son has no plans to sell it. Maybe someday he'll want to paint it the original color, and maybe even get all the A/C stuff back under the hood, but that would be a big job. A Vintage Air underhood kit would be easier. Here it is in blue, we made this video after it was painted: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Good eye. I gave my daughter a '63 TBird. She drove it to her friend's house one day, not long after getting her driver's license, and there was a narrow gate to get into her friend's driveway. When she left to come back home, she just had to pull straight back out, but she dragged the passenger side of the car just a little bit on that gate. The next day, I ordered passenger side mirrors for both my daughter's TBird and my son's GTO. Dan's GTO is painted now, he wanted it blue, it looks pretty good: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Very unusual configuration, someone really appreciated the basics but needed that a/c, for that fact and the color choice , I believe it would have been an older individual for sure.
I think you're right. An older guy for sure, and not a wimp, a tough guy that absolutely objected to silly things like power brakes and power steering. He didn't need those options when he was learning to drive (in who knows what....but something old), and he didn't need those options in 1968. I'm in the same boat, but my '70 Road Runner with no power steering is a real pain, compared to my other cars with no power steering. And to be honest, this GTO drives just fine without PS or PB. For a heavy car with a heavy engine, no PS isn't a hassle at all. It's fine.
I remember back in time you sat down in the Dealerships with the salesman and chose your options and ordered your car. It's a part of car buying long gone and it was fun building your own car that made it yours!
Yeah, and that's what a lot of commenters are missing here. This car was absolutely special ordered like you said. GTOs came with bucket seats standard, it was part of the GTO package, so there's no way Pontiac made a dozen or a hundred cars exactly like this one all on their own, just to see if it's a GTO that people would want. Someone ordered this car, and he was an odd one, he didn't order what I would have ordered. I don't think he ordered what anyone else in late '67 would have ordered in a '68 GTO. That's the only reason I think this car is one of a kind.....it's only because the guy that sat down in that Pontiac dealership was one of a kind.
It might be all the way forward in that video. Fun story, I bought the car from a buddy that's 6'2" and he had that bench seat all the way back. So I get in to drive it, and I can't reach the shifter easily in first or third gear, so I put the seat forward a bit. I'm 5'11". Well my son is 5'8" and he drives with the seat all the way forward, so that he can comfortably reach that Hurst shifter Same issue I had, no big deal, moving the seat forward fixes it, still odd, right? Turns out that car has the wrong shifter in it. I only know that because of this video, and some guy that knows four-speed bench seat GTOs, he saw this video, and he commented on it somewhere below. He let me know that this bench seat GTO has the bucket seat Hurst shifter handle, where it originally would have come with a longer Hurst shifter handle, with a dog-leg in it, to go up and over the bench seat (and closer to your hand). Well that explains it, and there's even one for sale on ebay, he can't sell it because he wants a grand for the thing! Good luck finding someone with a bench seat GTO Judge that's missing his original Hurst shifter, because a grand is way more than anyone with a plain Jane GTO like this one would ever pay for a 54 year old chrome steel stick, that says Hurst on it.....even with the correct length and dogleg in it. Months later, it's still for sale, here's the link: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293 Funny thing is, that in his item description he's right, it's a rare vintage part.....and I can't find the correct Hurst shifter handle for my son's GTO anywhere, not at a realistic price. He adds in his item description, that he's heard that his Hurst GTO shifter handle will also fit '68 to '70 bench seat four-speed Mopars. At first I ignore that, because I'm sure he's wrong, my '70 Road Runner has a bench seat, and a pistol grip four-speed, and the handle looks nothing like his, it's not even round. It's way different in every way. Then I dug deeper into it, and it turns out, he's half right, I searched ebay for a 1969 Dodge Dart bench seat four speed, and it's almost identical. And since Mopar made lots of four-speed bench seat cars, it's way less rare, easier to find, and I got one at a decent price, and that was my son's Christmas present. New video coming soon, new paint job, it's blue now, just have to put the trim pieces back on, and the grille, antenna, mirrors, etc. And that new '69 Dodge Dart bench seat Hurst shifter handle, we need to install that as well. It'll all be in my next video.
I had a ‘68 GTO 400 HO 4 speed with manual steering and brakes, but mine had bucket seats, a console, hood tach, and factory 8 track player. Yours might be pretty rare with the bench seats.
Yeah, I wasn't bragging though, just trying to find this car's twin. All my cars have twins, that can be found in a quick google search. Not this one. I quit looking, and made this video, I figure saying "super rare, 1 of 1", will piss off the GTO mafia, and someone will look really hard, just to prove me wrong.......and I'd be happy if they did. In my recent reply below to Will Geo, I said this, "It's just weird the way this car was ordered. Who orders a car like this? Not me, I'd keep the buckets, and the 4 speed, ditch the A/C, and opt for the best engine instead." And here you are with the car I just said I'd order, your '68 HO, 4 speed, manual steering and brakes GTO. And a hood tach? Very nice! That's a sweet ride! Oh and your 8 track player? Just take a quick look at my other videos, a good percentage of them are on my 8 track collection, and restoring 8 tracks. I've got over 200 8 tracks, and I've installed new pads and foil splices in all of them. When I don't have money for car parts, I hit up ebay for some new 8 tracks, cheap, and cheap to restore. It's a cheap secondary hobby. I've got an 8 track player in my garage, and in 3, soon to be 4, classic cars. They go great with the car hobby, and if you search ebay right now, for 8 track tape, you get over 60k results, so many to chose from, and so much great music from the 60s and 70s. I really love 8 tracks!
Just hope that your son appreciates it and preserves the car ! I love old classic cars ! I've had several Chevelles and camaros I wish I'd kept now looking back!
I love the old Chevelles and Camaros. I've never owned anything newer than my 1975 Bronco, so Dan's whole life, he's been hearing the stories that strangers in parking lots tell, about the classic cars they used to own, but then sold. And how they regret selling. He understands that if he sells the GTO, he'll most likely never own another one. He wants to hold on to it, so that's good. He's also got eyes on my split window coupe, but he'll have to wait until I die for that one. It's cool though, most guys his age don't even know what a split window coupe is. So far he's taking good care of the old Goat, check this out: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
@@owenrobertson, are the split windows ones with the vent window and the regular window? I'm old enough to remember the vent windows and how they helped ventilate the car. That's one car feature they would bring back. I would think they wouldn't affect the airflow around the car too much because of the window's size and the fact that they were directly behind the windshield on each side of the car. I think it wouldn't be worse than the mirrors.
@@dustylover100, if I mentioned a split window in this video, then it's my '63 Split Window Coupe that I'm talking about. In '63 only, Chevrolet split the rear glass in the Corvette. All other hardtop Vettes have single piece rear glass, so a '63 hardtop Corvette is well known as the SWC, (split window coupe). As for the vent windows, the little guys just forward of the door glass? Yeah, I love those little vent windows as well, you point them right at you, and roll the side glass down in this GTO (and lots of other old cars), and it does keep you pretty cool, as long as you're moving down the road. Those vent windows went out of style by the late 60s in most cars, like you said, they weren't good for air flow, and I hear they weren't very safe, I don't know, they're gone now. And they've been gone for good for decades. It's nice that new cars have the air conditioning thing ironed out these days, but I've never owned anything newer than 1975, so I really appreciate those little wing windows that most of my old cars have. Here are some of my old cars (and my wife's new car): ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html
Well my son does. But thanks! It's a conversation piece is all. Of course with me, old cars are all conversation pieces. I was driving my daughter's '63 TBird today, a guy older than me asked me if it had the slide away steering wheel, I said yeah, it's a '63, and they all have that. I said, you know what else it has, factory hydraulic windshield wipers. It's not an electric windshield wiper motor.....it's not even a vacuum powered windshield wiper motor......it's hydraulic, powered by the power steering pump, which provides hydraulic pressure to the steering box, and also to the windshield wiper motor, and that fluid pressure drives the wipers. So all '63 TBirds have power steering, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have windshield wipers at all. Crazy! And of course the engine has to be running, or no wipers, but that's not an issue. And instead of a two or three speed click switch, it has a radio style dial, as you turn it, the valve opens more and more, to allow more fluid through, so you theoretically can dial in any speed you want. In reality, at least on my daughter's '63 TBird, it's really just they go slow or they go fast. It's just something weird to talk about, from they days when they were still experimenting with weird ideas. I think they did that for a year or two only. In the end, electric wipers are way better.
I've been in to GTO's since 1982. From the dozens and dozens I've had over the decades, I've owned everything from Judges, Tri Power, 4 speed, 3.90 '65's, to Plum Mist 400 HO, 4 speed, parchment, 3.90 67, and countless others. I was president of our local chapter of the GTOAA, and have attended the GTOAA nationals numerous times over the years. You have an oddity, yes, I'll give you that, but you don't have a "Rare" "1 of 1" . That being said, its a neat car, and deserving of a restoration. Take care
I'm not saying this car is anymore valuable or desirable that any other plain Jane '68 GTO with a four speed. I was clear about that, this whole video is about this car being an oddity. I'm just asking, in your travels, how many '68 GTOs have you seen with a bench seat, four speed, A/C, but no PS or PB? On the GTO forum, they are saying that only 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars, I don't know if that's true, but it suggests rarity to me......and then what percentage of that 1%, are bench seat cars with four speeds? No one knows, but not a lot, right? The fact that I can't afford a used correct shifter for this car, makes me thinks it's rare, someone on ebay wants a grand for his, and that's not the whole Hurst shifter assembly, it's just the Hurst handle with the dog leg in it to better clear the bench, and the chrome on it is in poor condition, considering his price. I have two thoughts on that, one, it's pretty damn easy to shift this car with the bucket seat style shifter handle that's currently in it, and two, who the hell would buy a complete, running and driving '68 GTO for $8k, and then spend $1k just to have the correct shifter? Crazy! There's no way that shifter handle holds 13% of this car's total value. For the money he's asking, you'd think it would be for one of the many $70k GTOs that you've owned since 1982. Hopefully there's a '69 Judge out there with a bench seat and a four speed, AND that guy is missing his correct dog leg shifter, AND originality is very valuable to him, because if that guy is out there, then this guy on ebay has a buyer. I'm not knocking this ebay seller, because from the photos of his GTO collection, and from his ebay item's description, clearly this guy knows his GTOs, and he's worked at Inline Tube for over 25 years (I buy stuff from them all the time). Here's his item description: "1967-72 Pontiac GTO Lemans and Yenko Duce Nova Hurst 4 speed Shifter Handle 4177 Bench Seat OEM - Original chrome - this is excellent original - NOT REPRODUCTION JUNK - I have been told it is the same as the 68-70 mopar bench seat also but have not confirmed other part number I bought this off a guy for a car I never did so it is extra. I have only ever seen a couple of these in a lifetime. How rare is a 4 speed with a bench seat and, how many of those have you ever seen. I am not new to the parts world or the classic car market. I have worked at inline tube for over 25 years and developed thousands of parts for them. I know the in's and out's and what is reproduced and what is available. I have a collection of cars and parts from the 1980's and have finished most of my projects and must start thinning the amount of stuff I have. I have kept the best stuff for myself but have way too much so I will be listing many high dollar items. Some of this stuff you will never find again in this condition. Don't send me questions I wont answer, look at the pictures and read the description and if you like buy." Link: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Year%3A1968%7CModel%3AGTO&epid=1630579972&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5 Check out his last three photos.....I was impressed. So this guy knows GTOs and he knows that he has a rare part......but like I said in my first sentence, rare doesn't necessarily mean valuable or desirable, so I don't think he'll get a grand for it. He said it might fit '68 to '70 Mopar, so he doesn't know Mopar like he knows Pontiac, because his Hurst shifter handle looks nothing like the factory Hurst shifter in my '70 Road Runner. It's not just the bench seat and four speed though......my son's GTO in this video is a rarity within a rarity, because how many 60s cars in general, GM, Ford, Mopar, came from the factory with A/C, but no PS or PB? It's not something I've ever thought about, but it's rare to see that, A/C cars in the 60s normally had PS as well, or PB.....or both, at least that's what I've seen in my travels, and I've seen a lot of 60s cars. When I see a car at a show with no PS or PB, but it's got A/C, it's normally an aftermarket A/C setup, like Vintage Air. A/C was around a $200 option I think, and PS or PB, were what, around 30 or 40 bucks each? Not just for GTO, but in general, for 60s cars? I'm trying to remember what was on the factory invoice for the '70 Mach 1 that I used to own, which had A/C, PS, and PB, I'm not positive on those numbers for cost, but for sure, A/C was a big money option in the 60s, and PS and PB were comparatively cheap. I don't think Pontiac made a dozen cars like this GTO just to see if it's something that people would want. I think anyone can special order anything, and if they order something odd enough, it would be the only one like it, made that year. I think this car was special ordered, and I don't think this car has a twin. How many classic cars do you own today? I've got 10 at my house, 3 of them now belong to my kids.......and of those 10 classic cars, they all have twins out there, no doubt about it, there's no reason to think any of them are rare at all, with the one exception being this 1968 GTO. I know I'm not allowed to say "rare" or '1 of 1", because it's against the rules of the hobby, and those words rub guys like you the wrong way. I've been in this hobby since 1985, and I know the rules, but it's just a hobby, and I'm a bit of a rebel, so here we are. I said, "1 of 1, super rare" to get attention, clearly it's worked, since my other videos have 30 views, and this one has over 5k. I'm actually not looking for someone to explain to me that it's not "1 of 1", I'm looking for someone to show me this car's twin. I'd actually like that a lot. If enough guys like you see this video, there may be a chance.
I've seen quite a few bench seat gtos over the yrs. As far as your hunt for the shifter, the 3spd uses the same chrome stick. The part# is the same for 68 and 69.
@@captianjolly, for the Hurst bench seat shifter? That's good thinking. And @bamabound9495 suggested finding a Hurst stick out of a three speed bench seat GTO, which is also a good idea, but I think I'm a couple decades too late for this search. Prices are insane now. Did the four-speed T-37s come with Hurst shifters? I'm guessing they did, but the market doesn't seem to be flooded with Pontiac bench seat Hurst shifters right now. I searched ebay for just that, and I only found two, and they both claim to be correct for '68 bench seat GTO. One is a Hurst part #5280, and one is a Hurst part #4177. They look similar but not identical, so only one is correct for my son's GTO. The guy with the 4177 worked for Inline Tube for 25 years, and his ebay photos include a very impressive collection of GTO parts, and twelve beautiful GTO cars, check it out: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Make%3APontiac&epid=1139811090&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8H%2BURt1Qu1qlxHx6R%2BS9YyCCUFzn0HeYKypeDjhcfL0NoQSCauKGqEnrvOyEx%2FKixpCM98f7TxiX764xt0MmxTGpQvyIUiQUJzbt6o3QMVmT6qcQUX79eXTOjv4DHtolPC2tM9JT3fZp%2BhYI6Hy8cI1Mbsw5moalEalyj7%2FCMkp1Dk2%2Fm6n6Sk6s38zl63lryX5dn644mOGln%2FQCShmECPxxUMpkGNHevo84Ixrsgg0pqshS7StlygBz4Xf8h5oLAbHHUhYEtVr7PjbQhv6IxW26JoMT2T9HZ7cW1%2Bq%2Bssk81l2nF52K9VwXmzvbt8ERoA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR56fgc3DYg So I'm going out on a limb, and thinking he might be the authority here, and the 4177 might be the shifter I need. He wants a grand for it though. A thousand dollars for a chrome stick? I paid 8 grand for the whole car, I don't see a single steel stick being worth 1/8th the car's value, even if it's chrome plated and says Hurst on the side. And the guy with the 5280 stick? He wants $1,500. Good luck to them both, hopefully there's a guy out there with a bench seat Judge, that desperately needs the concours correct stick for his insanely valuable car. He'll need to do his research though, and figure out if he needs a 5280 or a 4177. As for my son's car, I don't know why or how, but at some point over the years, it has lost it's bench seat Hurst stick, and found a bucket seat Hurst stick, and it works just fine, no issues with it at all. It's the wrong stick, and it works great. I like to sit back a bit, but you can totally drive it with the bench seat moved all the way forward as well. That dogleg stick doesn't seem to matter all that much. We didn't even realize the car had the wrong stick until someone mentioned it in this comments section. When it was brought to my attention, I went looking, and found the crazy prices, then I found a vintage bench seat Hurst stick for a Dodge Dart, and it was cheap. It wasn't a 4177. but it looked very close to the 4177 Hurst stick, very similar dogleg, so I bought it, installed it, and both me and my son hated it. That dog leg didn't feel right, it felt like we had less control. Maybe we were just used to the GTO bucket seat stick by then? I don't know, but we only drove it with the Mopar Hurst dogleg stick for one day, then the GTO's old stick went right back in, and it's way better. Maybe that's why this car lost it's bench seat stick in the first place? Why it was replaced with a regular Hurst stick? Maybe some guy back in the 60s, 70s, or 80s didn't like that long dogleg? What would be another reason for the dogleg stick to be replaced? You'd have a hard time just bending a Hurst stick, let alone breaking one, so that can't be the reason.
Are you 💯 on the Org Paint Color?? Looks almost like Mayfair Maze. Does it have the paint code available? Edit... Definitely a Gold car!! My bad !! I could see it better, later in the video. 🏁🇺🇲🏁 PMDFTW
Yup, like you said, G code paint, April Gold, fast forward to 10:51 for the PHS Report, and it's got the parchment interior....and it's got just three options, A/C, four-speed, and that bench seat. Those aren't the three options I would have picked for a '68 GTO, but to each his own. My son didn't want an April Gold car though, so now it's blue: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
The factory bench seat hurst shifter is very unique: has a dog leg curve to clear the seat cushion when the seat is adjusted full forward. Couldn't tell if yours has that??
Yeah, I've got the original engine, trans, and rear end, even the original intake and exhaust manifolds. That stuff was easy to check. As for the original Hurst shifter, I have no idea on that, it could have been easily swapped out in the '70s or '80s. And I'm positive that the Hurst shifter T handle grip isn't original, it's the standard style that was common in the 80s and is still common today, it has "Hurst" on it, but no H shift pattern, it's old, and it's worn real good, but it's not original. I know the car's history from 1989, but a lot can happen in those missing, first 21 years. I did order a new Hurst bushing kit to tighten up the shifter, and then I figured out that my old bushings aren't removable, but pressed in, like factory. They had ordinary cotter pins though, which isn't right, and I replaced those with the correct pins that lock in a lot better, and the pressed in bushings were still in good shape, and it shifts great now. My '70 Road Runner's Hurst shifter has a massive curve to it, to clear the bench seat by about an inch, in 2nd and 4th gear, when the seat is all the way forward. The GTO's shifter has a slight bend, and that's it, and it just barely hits the bench in 2nd and 4th, when the bench is all the way forward. I think you're right, it's the wrong shifter, and I'm guessing that's a part I won't be able to find. No worries though, it's still easy to drive, even if you're short, just don't put the armrest down, easy to shift it with the armrest up. Check out this other video of the car, fast forward to 42 seconds, there's a good shot of the shifter from the side: ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
so what is your beef with Unibody cars??? Being a lifelong Mopar guy I wasn't real keen on them either 50 years ago. Then I did some research and found out how much stronger and safer they are than body on frame cars...and obviously GM did too. Research is a good thing and easy to do especially these days. So now just about all new cars and even some trucks are Unibody for probably the last 30 years or more. Another little interesting tidbit of Pro unibody info...did you know that back when Richard Petty was driving and winning Mopar cars in NASCAR all those cars he raced at near 200 MPH ( and crashed hard but obviously survived a few times) were still basically stock Unibody cars pulled off the assembly line and built into race cars??? He won 196 races driving Unibody cars and the rest in full frame cars...that would be 4. Seems like Unibody might not be so bad.
How many real trucks are built today on a unit-body? At some point the truck gets big enough to require the strength of an actual frame, otherwise you'd have 3/4 ton trucks, and bigger, running unit-bodies. A truck on a real frame is stronger. A car on a real frame is stronger. I was jacking up my daughter's '63 TBird the other day, and the spot on the frame rail that I had the jack under, crumpled because that metal is old, and being a unit-body car, that frame rail metal isn't much thicker than a normal body panel, so lesson learned, that is no longer a safe jacking point for that '63 Thunderbird, but you think that would happen anywhere along either frame rail on a '68 GTO? That alone is reason enough for me to prefer a real car on a real frame. From a restoration point of view, I also like having a real frame, and a removable body. I'm not a fan of rusty frame rails on old Mustangs and Mopars, I've repaired more than my fair share of them. Today's cars aren't built to be strong, they are built to crumple in the right spots, and protect the driver....then you throw it away.....and that's fine, that's how new cars are, but I'm not into new cars, I've never owned anything newer than 1975, and I'm only here to talk about old cars. My '55 Pontiac is on a real frame, so is my '61 Studebaker, my '63 Corvette, my son's '68 GTO, and my '75 Bronco. My daughter's '63 TBird, and my '65 and '69 Mustangs, '67 Alpine, and my '70 Road Runner are all unit-body cars. I'm not tossing out my '70 Road Runner any time soon, because I don't like the frame, but of the cars I've owned......I prefer the real cars on real frames. It's just a preference.
@@owenrobertson well sir...I have patched up my share of rusted framed Chevelles and a Monte Carlo when I was in the stock car game and those frames rusted just as much sorry to tell you. In fact they were no good for HD duty use like racing unless you boxed them in the entire length of the car. Then you had to triangulate the frames with roll cage tubing to make them stiff enough to stop the flexing. And body on frame cars were proven to twist like a pretzel unless you beefed up the frames. And you don't need top be a rocket scientist to figure that out it is really common sense. You could use 2 6" I beams for frame rails but if you just bolt a rubber mounted body to them the car will still flex like 2 rubber bands. Frames on old GM cars were just 3 sided thin channel connected at the very front and the very back by the bumpers basically. Not really much stronger or more durable the unibody frames except they were hanging under the car and not incorporated into it. Do some research you'll be real disappointed to find out the how wrong you are. You'd be surprised how much you learn about cars when you build race cars from street machines. . And I'd be willing to bet more people have gotten killed in frame cars than unibody cars. So stop brainwashing your kids let them make up their own minds. Unibody IS stronger AND safer... that's a fact jack. And you are right that is the reason most vehicles are unibody now plus they all handle like INDY cars now. No '68 GTO ever will. Give your son the Road runner...it's easily the best and most valuable car you have. All your blabbering here is just opinion and preference nothing more. You want facts research my man...research. I'm done with you.......................
@@bultacowally, you keep talking about stock car racing and new cars and safety issues, but that's not what I'm talking about at all, I'm talking about using 50 - 70 year old cars as daily drivers, and what it takes to restore and maintain them. All I'm talking about are the daily drivers that I currently own and drive.....and wrench on, and weld on. I've driven nothing but old cars my whole life, my opinions are based on my life experience, not yours. You say all my blabbering here is just opinion and preference......well duh, that's exactly what I've been saying all along. On my youtube channel I talk about things that I like.....that doesn't make sense to you? You should see my videos on 8 tracks, am I wrong to prefer 8 tracks over CDs? Should I research why digital platforms are better than analog? Or should I simply like what I like, and then die someday? Because I was planning on that one. My preference is to have a real car on a real frame. If your preference is unit-body, I have no issue at all with your preference, you sir are entitled to that. I don't care what you drive, or what you prefer. You do you, I won't try to talk you out of it. You asked me why I like my cars that have real frames better than I like my cars that have unit-bodies, so I told you. You didn't like my answer, so you told me to research unit body cars? That makes no sense. I have the cars right outside in my garages. I work on them, that's all the research necessary. Which ones do I like working on better? The ones on real frames. Which ones do I prefer to drive? The ones on real frames. That's just me, telling you what I like, because you asked. And I absolutely love B body Mopars, and my son absolutely isn't getting my four-speed, V code, '70 Road Runner, that's mine. It's not like I bought that car and found out later that it was a unit-body, and thought, "Oh no, now I have to give it away." I knew it was a unit-body, and it's still a fine car, and fun to drive. Did I enjoy welding in a new trunk floor on that Road Runner? No, not one bit, because welding floor boards, toe boards, and trunk floors into old Mopars and Mustangs is a real pain in the ass, because of all the factory spot welds that connect those pans to the unit-body frame rails.....but that's the price you pay when you like old Mustangs and Mopars, they tend to be rusty in spots, and the unit-body construction doesn't help out one bit. Trunk floors and floor boards are way easier to replace on a car with a real frame. And don't worry, I've done my research, not on the internet, but by only being able to afford rusted out cars that need stuff like that done to them. I've done floor boards on a '55 Chevy, '67 Chevelle, '65 and '69 Mustang, and I had to replace the rusted out trunk floor in my Road Runner. None of it was impossible, I'm just saying that based on the cars I've worked on, I prefer working on the real frame cars. And I welded in patch panels in my son's GTO trunk floor....also, super easy compared to unit-body. If there is a restoration advantage in a 50 or 60 year old unit-body car, I've yet to discover it. Either you're doing something where the frame isn't an issue at all, or you're doing something where the unit-body design is a real pain in the ass, usually due to rust, and that's because Ford and Mopar never expected people to be driving their 60s and 70s model year cars, in the year 2021.....I think we're supposed to have Jetson's flying cars by now. As for, where the beef is, if I'm looking outside at my cars, it's with the full frame cars, way beefier frame rails, than the unit-body frame rails, and none of them are any where near rusting through, unlike some old Mustangs that I've owned where you could put three or four fingers through a decent rusty spot in the frame rail. Easy enough to fix, and I get that, but my real frame cars don't need that repair in the first place. So you're sorry to tell me that Chevelle and Monte Carlo frames rust out as well. Well I'm sorry to tell you that none of the cars on frames at my house, have frame rails that are anywhere near rusting out....and if they've lasted from 1955, 1961, 1963, 1968, and 1975 until 2021 without frame rust issues, then by my math, I'm guessing all of those frames will outlast me. Not to mention all the Model T and Model A frames I've seen for sale. They seem to last, I don't know, maybe they were all garage kept for the past 100 years, but I doubt it. They might all be from the southwest of course, but do you think my wife's unit-body 2003 Ford Escape will last 100 years? Or is it disposable? I think it's disposable. I don't think Ford builds cars to last 100 years anymore, because I think they want us to keep buying new cars from them. And my old cars aren't from the southwest, the '55 is from Kansas City, the '61 is from New Jersey, the '63 Corvette is from Ohio, the '68 GTO is from St Louis, oh wait, the '75 Bronco is from Las Vegas....so that's one of them. Let me do some more "going outside and looking" research for you. My wife's Ford Escape vs my son's '68 GTO, demolition derby, like the old days, who wins? And who's front end buckles destroying the radiator immediately? The GTO is a solid-ass car, that's all I'm saying. Does solid mean safe? No people died in car crashes all the time back when I was a kid. Drive a solid-ass '68 GTO into a solid-ass oak tree, and if you're going fast enough, you'll die. You have a much better chance of survival in the designed to crumple Ford Escape with it's air bags and shoulder belts. Again, I was never talking about new cars, and I was never talking about safety. If I cared about those things, I wouldn't own the cars that I own, I wouldn't post the videos that I post, and we wouldn't be talking right now. But I totally agree with you, the people survive in the Ford Escape wreck (most likely), and the GTO survives in the GTO wreck (most likely....because it's very hard to kill a '68 GTO, you'd need to be moving pretty fast). Depends on the GTO as well, easier to kill a GTO like my son's '68 than it is to kill a '70 Ram Air Judge, when someone wraps a GTO Judge around a tree....or a hemi Mopar B body for that matter, there are tons of people willing to do whatever it takes to put that car right again. Not the Ford Escape, though, that car just gets thrown away. Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, the next car I want to buy is a 1968 Coronet R/T, I love the styling on that car, I just need to find one that rusty enough for me to be able to afford it. So if you want, keep trying to talk me into perferring unit-body cars, but you'd have a better time trying to convince me that I'm wrong to like green cars.....or Lemon Twist Yellow for that matter. Instead, why not just tell me about the Mopars you've owned. I love old Mopars.
Neat car but I suspect you’re off on your calculations. Firstly bench seats were about 10-15% of 68 GTO production. April gold was one of the lower production colors but not rare. AC was installed on about half of GTO’s and 4 speeds were on about 40% of them. Bench seat 4speed cars were less common then bench seat automatic cars but not rare. Your combination with AC and not many other option is also unusual though but in the southeast and the southwest desert that combination was seen regularly. Basically the gear head combination of 4speed, bench seat and no power options for lighter weight. Those cars optioned that way were hard to sell second hand because most buyers wanted more comfortable cars so it probably explains why you don’t see many like it today. They were crushed back in the late 70’s because they had little value.
You think about 50% of '68 GTOs had factory A/C? Wasn't that about a $300 option? Even if it was only $250, that was big big money in '68. I wouldn't guess that 50% of any muscle car had factory A/C, but I've never looked into it. It just seems that if I go to a big GTO show and look under the hood of all the GTOs there, I don't see factory A/C in 50% of them, but I could be wrong. Not that it matters, my main point on the A/C, isn't that this car has A/C, it's that it has A/C, but no PS or PB. It's something you never really think about, because why should you, but when I think of every 60s car that I've ever seen, cars at shows with the hoods up, cars that my friends have owned over the past 40 years, cars that I've owned myself.....two things come to mind, if it's a 60s car with factory A/C, that A/C probably doesn't work, and that factory A/C car probably has PS or PB, or both, because that's what the factory thought people wanted, they figured that someone that wanted the luxury of A/C, would also enjoy PS or PB.....or both. Now if it's a special order car, like this GTO that we're talking about, then sure that guy gets whatever he wants, but most people that wanted A/C, they seemed to want either PS, PB, or both.....and I don't know why, because I'm not a fan of either. PS is one more thing to leak, and PB is one more thing to break, but I'm not a fan of A/C either, roll down the windows, and position the wing windows, and you'll be just fine, and I would know, I've never owned anything newer than 1975, and none of them ever had working A/C, and I've lived in some of the hottest places......and life is fine without A/C. I'm just reporting on what I've seen, and what I can remember, and I can't recall a single A/C car that had only factory A/C, but no PS or PB. They exist of course, they have to, because this '68 GTO exists, but they don't exist in large numbers. You mentioned the southwest and the southeast. I lived in the southwest for 7 years, Las Vegas, didn't see it there, that I can recall, and I went to a lot of car shows, and knew a bunch of guys with 60s cars. And of course I'm mostly familiar with my friends' 60s cars, cars that I've wrenched on, but even that's a large sampling of 60s cars. I currently live in the southeast, South Carolina, been here 15 years, and again, I've been to a bunch of shows, and I know a bunch of car guys, and I can't think of a single factory A/C car that didn't also come factory with PS, PB, or both. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying there can't be that many of them. Since I started really paying attention to this, when I see a 60s car with A/C and no PS or PB, it's always been an aftermarket A/C setup, like Vintage Air. To be fair though, before I figured out from the PHS, that this GTO never had PS or PB, I never really thought about it. I've only been looking hard for A/C only cars since buying this GTO in 2017. It's all just talk, but do a google search for "1968 GTO engine compartment". Click on the photos with A/C under the hood. Most of them seem to have that very visible brake booster as well, so that car's out. Just click on the A/C Goats that don't have that brake booster, most of them have power steering right? You have to admit, it's unusual to see a GTO with A/C, but no PS or PB. I'd call it a little bit rare, but they're out there for sure. I'd call a bench seat four-speed GTO a little bit rare as well, but again, they're out there for sure. I'd call the same GTO with both, a rarity within a rarity. Not so? Show me some. It's a big internet. Where are they hiding? Totally agree, if a gearhead had ordered this car, he'd want the four-speed, and he'd want to keep the options low, to keep it light, but he'd want ram air, and this GTO has the base standard engine.....and he'd be fine with the standard bucket seats, because if he really wanted to lighten things up and go racing, just one bucket seat is a lot lighter than that bench seat. That bench seat is really heavy, so is the bench in my Road Runner. Bucket seats were standard on GTO, you really think 10% to 15% of people said no thanks to standard bucket seats in the GTO, and special ordered a bench seat from the factory? I'm not a Pontiac expert, I've only owned two, but no one on the GTO forum thinks it's anywhere near 10 to 15%. Can you share your source? Or is it just a guess on your part? I'm no expert, I don't think anyone is, since PHS never made that count. I'm only going by what I've read on the GTO forum: www.gtoforum.com/threads/gtos-with-bench-seats.28560/page-2 "I know I'm bringing up an old thread but I just saw a quote in an old back issue of Pontiac High Performance that they made 759 bench seat GTO's in 1967. What % of production is that? 1 or 2% at the most? I still have had no luck locating information on any other years." "There were AROUND 88,000 GTOs made in 67. So ABOUT 1%. Eric:cheers" No one suggested on that four page forum thread that 1% was way low, for production numbers of bench seat '67 GTOs, just curious why you think demand for a bench seat GTO would jump from 1% in '67, to 10% or even 15% in '68? It's a new body style, but not one that screams for a bench seat. Here's a guy on ebay with some serious GTO credentials, he's selling the bench seat Hurst shifter handle that's correct for my son's GTO. He wants a grand for it, and my son's GTO shifts just fine with the incorrect bucket seat Hurst shifter handle that's been in the car since at least 1989, so I'm in no hurry to drop a grand just to make the car correct, and neither is my son. Hopefully he can sell his bench seat Hurst GTO shifter to someone with a bench seat Judge that absolutely needs to be correct.....and hopefully that bench seat, four-speed Judge owner, just happens to have lost his correct shifter over the years. Because I think most guys with lower value GTOs, we aren't looking to spend that kind of money. Here's his item description: "1967-72 Pontiac GTO Lemans and Yenko Duce Nova Hurst 4 speed Shifter Handle 4177 Bench Seat OEM - Original chrome - this is excellent original - NOT REPRODUCTION JUNK - I have been told it is the same as the 68-70 mopar bench seat also but have not confirmed other part number I bought this off a guy for a car I never did so it is extra. I have only ever seen a couple of these in a lifetime. How rare is a 4 speed with a bench seat and, how many of those have you ever seen. I am not new to the parts world or the classic car market. I have worked at inline tube for over 25 years and developed thousands of parts for them. I know the in's and out's and what is reproduced and what is available. I have a collection of cars and parts from the 1980's and have finished most of my projects and must start thinning the amount of stuff I have. I have kept the best stuff for myself but have way too much so I will be listing many high dollar items. Some of this stuff you will never find again in this condition. Don't send me questions I wont answer, look at the pictures and read the description and if you like buy." So that guy has worked at Inline Tube for over 25 years, and he thinks a four-speed bench seat GTO is rare. How rare is a four-speed bench seat GTO with only one other option, air conditioning? Check out his ebay listing: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293 Look at the photos of his dogleg Hurst shifter, because he's also added photos of his car collection, and it's impressive to say the least. That guy knows Pontiac. He doesn't know Mopar though, I've got a four-speed bench seat Mopar with a factory Hurst shifter, and his GTO Hurst bench seat shifter isn't right for it....even though he suggests in his listing that it might be. This GTO that I gave to my son has three options: -bench seat -four-speed -Air conditioning If you search the entire internet, you won't find another GTO (any year) with just those three options and nothing else. Now try to find one with just those three options, and it just happens to be April Gold with parchment interior, and it's a '68. Good luck! Shoot me a link if you find one. So, no offense, but I think you're off on your calculations. Not that it matters, PHS doesn't care how many bench seat GTOs were made, so why should we? It's not even my car, I just think it's fun to talk about it. The main thing is this, like all GTOs, it's a great car, and it's fun to drive, and it's even painted now, here's the paint video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html He didn't want April Gold. I don't blame him, it's not my favorite color either. Anyway it's just paint, and we left the jams black, as they've been since at least 1989. I bought it in 2017, and I don't know the car's history before '89. If my son wants it to be April Gold when he's an old man, he can always make that happen. Some cars were built to last a lifetime, and then another lifetime....and then another lifetime, the '68 GTO was one of those cars. It's a good car. My daily driver right now is a '55 Chieftain, it's nice that some cars won't die.
Well it's not mine to sell, it's my son's, and I hope it's never for sale. My son wants to keep it and drive it, and I know at least one guy from high school that's still driving his '66 red Mustang convertible. He was smart, never hot rodded it, just drove it, and took it to the mechanic when it needed work. That, and keep it garaged, when you aren't driving it, and it'll last forever. I hope my son does like that guy. I couldn't stay away from Super Shops, as a kid, and spent way too much money making old cars quicker, but less reliable. And I'm a mechanic, so I do all my own work....but I was a jet engine mechanic, and I was never an ASE certified automotive mechanic, so yeah, sometimes I mess stuff up and have to fix my mistakes down the road. My son doesn't love turning wrenches like I do, but that's okay, he can find a good mechanic that he trusts, and he'll be just fine. It's not like I can fix my own HVAC....sometimes we all need to pay for a little professional assistance. To your point though, my son wants my '63 Corvette when I die....so maybe that's when he'll need the space, and have to sell his '68 GTO. That GTO is a great car though, not because it's weird and rare, it's just a fun, bone stock, four-speed GTO, and it's a blast to drive.
A unit-body or unibody car is a car with a unitized body. That just means that the frame is part of the body, it's a lightweight frame with thin metal, so the structure of the body itself provides a good portion of the the car's overall structural integrity. Most vehicles today are unit body cars. Trucks still sit on real frames. Back in '68, small cars, and most mid-sized cars were unit body cars, but GM's mid-sized A-body, like this GTO, still sat on a real frame, like the cars of the 50s, and older. When you hear that someone did a frame-off restoration, it means they removed the body from the frame, and then restored the frame without the body in the way, and restored the body without the frame in the way. When I hear that someone did a frame-off restoration on a unit body car, like the Mustang, well I don't know what that means. www.hemmings.com/stories/article/body-on-frame-vs-unit-body
My God man...you're a car guy and don't even know what UNIBODY is??? Just about every car and even some trucks built on planet earth now are Unibody. SHEEEEZE!!!
@@bultacowally, he never said he was a car guy, he just wanted to know what a unit-body car was. If he read my reply, well now he knows. Knowing is half the battle.
When I first bought the car from a friend of mine, I figured it came with PS and A/C, and at some point, someone ditched the power steering for whatever reason. Then I got the PHS report, and saw that it was ordered with the bench seat, the four-speed, A/C, and nothing else. Yeah, pretty weird, but back then you could order whatever you wanted. The guy that ordered this one, knew what he wanted, and it wasn't the sort of GTO that most everyone else wanted. I love the car, but it's not what I would have ordered.
Typically people ordered the power option deletes to go drag racing but to have AC as well and a bench 4 speed is odd. I have always thought bench 4 speeds were cool and unique. I have a 69 gto and owned it nearly 30 years, has a 70 455 built up in it now. My dad had several ponchos including a 69 lemans, 68 gto, 66 and 67 gto and a 65 tempest custom convertible we put a 428 with ttri power in and a 12 bolt and disc brakes, fun car. Definitely a unique car, your sons lucky to have such a cool unique Pontiac. Sounds like you have some beautiful cars, that mopar sounds nice, my brother had a 70 plum crazy rt/se 440 challenger and a 71 demon with a 340 and a 4 speed with a 3.91 sure grip, a fun and fast car to drive, i got to drive it a few times. Good luck with the goat, looking forward to seeing it painted and polished up! I have all the phs docs on mine too, was vedoro green with a black top and black interior built in fremont, if it has a Z in the vin code its always a Fremont car. Also still has original black n yellow plates...fun times! Thanks for sharing!
You win best comment. I'm the judge, and I'm biased, but you still win. I was trying to ruffle feathers, by saying 1 of 1, I know people hate that, but you saw through my attempt and simply made an accurate observation. We don't know why this car was built like this, but as you pointed out, it wasn't built stripped down for racing, A/C and that bench add a lot of dead weight. And think about this....how many 60s cars have you seen with A/C and no PS or PB, any 60s car, not just Pontiac. You don't see that too often right? I vividly remember a lot of 60s cars, relatives' cars, high school friends' cars, Air Force buddies' cars, 60s cars in my home town that go to car shows with their hoods up, and 60s cars that I've looked at because they were cool, or for sale, or both. You just don't see a lot of 60s cars with factory A/C and no PB or PS. Every A/C car that I can remember, had A/C and PB, or A/C and PS, or all three. So yeah, I think this GTO is rare for two separate reasons. And when I say rare, I don't mean valuable or even special, it's just weird and cool. I bought it because it was a GTO with a four speed and the price was right. That's all that really matters. I like four speed cars. My son likes it too. Yeah, my son is lucky, and I gave my daughter a '63 TBird. I can't pay for them to go to college, they'll have to figure that out on their own. But I've been hoarding old cars for a long time now, so that's covered. Your '69 sounds sweet! I've got a green (gonna be green - it has a green interior) '55 Pontiac, and a green Studebaker, I love green cars. That 455 must be fun, torque monster! That's cool that you've had it for 30 years! Your dad had some sweet cars as well! I've got a bunch of cool old cars, none of them are beautiful like you suggested. I tend to buy cars that need work. Your brother had some nice cars too! Your family has good taste. I love the Mopars and Plum Crazy is awesome!
Sounds like you really have some cool cars. I had a 68 mustang with a 302 and a C4 before my gto, meadowlark yellow with a black top. I forgot to mention my younger brother who is in Austin Texas has a 63 ford truck he found in a field and restored and currently has a 57 belaire in the paint shop. He's going to put in a 383 stroker and a 4l80e trans. I love the fact that the phs exists, all vehicles don't have that luxury. I was able to see my car came with the wood custom sport wheel which was missing of course so i added it. My car also had a 68 Hurst dual gate in it when i got it as well, hung onto it and put a factory one in. That vette sounds awesome 2, my friends dad had a 57 t bird and a 66 and 67 vettes both with 427's, one with a 4 barrel and the other with 3 2's on it and both 4 speeds. My friends and i had a muscle car club back in high school, we were called missions muscle. We all had classics, i beat pretty much all of my friends i raced against. Its great that you have given both of your kids classics and instilled knowledge in them about working on cars. One of the greatest things my dad taught me was how to work on cars and to appreciate the classics. Sadly most parents and kida nowadays don't do this and don't posses the knowledge becsuse they weren't taught, its very valuable! I wish you and your family all the best, would love to see some more of your collection!!
@@puddleduckist, oh yeah, your family has good taste in cars. My dad had a '32 Cadillac when I was a kid, V12 car, original engine. He bought it in the 60s. He was the class of '61 and drove a Nash Metropolitan when he was in high school. My dad also had a '69 four-door Lincoln when I was a kid, suicide doors. I hope my kids hold onto what I gave them. Those are their cars though, they can do what they want. They are twins, turn 18 soon, that's when I'm signing the titles over to them, for their birthday presents, but those have always been their cars. It was fun to shop for a car for my 13 year old son, and the TBird, I already had. I just figured since it had A/C and PS, it would be a good car for her. I graduated high school in California, back in '88. Same thing here, we had a full-on car show with the cars we drove, but we never thought of it like that, we just cruised our old cars, parked at 7-11 and Hal's Market, cruised some more, raced out in the country occasionally, we had fun. I can still remember all the cars we had, and who drove what, it's an impressive list. Yeah, I think you're right, all of the classics are still tucked away in garages, but I don't see parents handing them down, and more importantly, I don't see kids that even want those old '60s cars. Kind of like how back in the 80s, I was all about 60s cars, and respected 50s cars, but I wasn't too much into 20s, 30s, and 40s cars, unless they were totally rodded out, ZZ Top style. I recently made a video with most of my cars in it. The only ones missing are the three that don't run right now, the '65 Mustang fastback, '66 Sunbeam Alpine, and a '61 Studebaker Hawk. Those aren't in the video, because they are tucked away in the garage, but I had everything else outside and lined up that day, even my kids' cars are in the video. Here's that video link: ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html
Wow, great memories and lots of fun! Your a bit older than me by 3 yrs or so but not much different. My dad had a 59 triumph tr3 when he was young and he bought another one many yrs ago. That was one cool little car, had a bug bors kit in the 4 cyl and dual side draft carbs and a 4 speed. There were no door handles, it had a pocket in each doir with a cable u pulled. It had the racing pop up gas cap in the top back and the spare tire fit in this cool little compartment that had a removable cover below the bumper, such a cool little car!! Great memories for sure! My dad and i were the Pontiac nuts and went to the first jom butler nationals in Tennessee and the gto nationals in Wichita Kansas one year. Went to a pontiac show in bend Oregon called tiger run many times and won first and second. We have met many Pontiac greats, jim wangers, pete McCarthey, jum butler and his sons, bruce fulper and many others. My dads ca lr was a 67 lemans we called the lemanster. It had a butler 455 stroked to a 474 with 13.1 and ran 10.80's ar 125 plus mph, fast car.
@@puddleduckist, man that's awesome! First AND second, what a great memory to have with your dad! I don't know anything about Triumphs, especially one as old as that. What's a bug bors kit? I had a red 67 Sunbeam Alpine with dual side draft Webers, but I never got them working, so I cheated, and bought an earlier alpine single 2 barrel intake, and then ran an adapter for a Holley 2 barrel that I bought brand new. It ran pretty good, but not fantastic. I'm more used to V8 cars, and I sold that little red Alpine. The Lemanster sound's sweet. Bad-ass! Yeah, we're about the same age. Almost all of my car buddies are our age or older, and sometimes way older. It's too bad more younger guys aren't into the cars we love. I know a few though, four that I can name, so good for them. I keep telling them to hang in there, once all the guys my age die, all those sixties cars will be all theirs, since the vast majority of their peers don't seem too interested.
Got is a lot like Buick. You had the midlife crisis guys ordering comfort stuff like ax but who needs to stop and steer. It’s all about going it a straight line really fast and trying to not have much weight in the front end. Super rare car and in beautiful shape. Glad your son isn’t into 4cyl junk made by the people who brought us ww2.
Ha! Great comment! Yeah, he loves this car. We just got it painted, but he's been working and going to school, and I just got home from buying a '68 Coronet R/T in Virginia. Still last night, we were able to get his side mirrors, antenna, and marker lights back on, and he drove it to school today for the first time with the new paint job. He was so excited about that. It's a great hobby. We need to at least try to let our kids in on it. It's an expensive hobby right now, but once all the guys my age (and older) die off, there will be way less demand, and the supply will remain fairly constant. It's not like these cars are getting wrapped around telephone poles at a high rate these days, or drag raced into the ground. Most of them are just tucked away in some old guy's garage, waiting for him to die, so the kids can sell everything on estate auction. That's how I got my '63 Corvette. Guy died with two of them. Two split window Corvettes, side-by-side in his garage, one silver, one tan. He had two sons. When he died, neither son wanted either of dad's prized Corvettes. Everything went on estate sale. Crazy!
That is a really rare gto. The 4speed and ac is really what makes it. I have a rare dodge as well. 1972 Dodge Challenger 340 4 speed with factory ac counseled buckets factory hemi orange y93 code car which is dealer promotional car. Car is 1of 5 made with ac but the only one in hemi orange and the only one like it with the y93 code. Also have a 70 4 speed gs stage 1. I just started posting more of my cars on RUclips a year ago.
I've got the PHS Report, fast forward to 10:40 until the end of the video, that's the PHS Report, it's all you get. It's not cool like the Marti Report that you can get for old Mustangs, because PHS never put all of their data into a searchable computer database like Marti did. If they had, then for sure, PHS would be able to find out how many with any option combination. It's a lot of work though, you'd have to manually enter all the raw data into a computer, and when I dealt with them, they hadn't done that. What they do have is deteriorating microfiche, like what you see at 10:40. They print it out and they decode it, and that's how they tell you what options came on your car, they simply highlight your car's options with a yellow highlighter pen and they mail you those pages, that's how high tech they are. It's been five or six years since I ordered that PHS Report, but when I did business with them, they were more 20th century than 21st. I paid them $75 and they printed out the pages that you see at the end of this video, it's some expensive yellow highlighting for sure. I'm not complaining though, I did learn some things from the PHS report, I learned that this car didn't come with power brakes or power steering, that information isn't on the cowl tag. Knowing it's a factory A/C car, that struck me as odd, I figured it was an A/C and PS car, and someone just ditched the PS. I've been known to ditch PS, I drove a '70 Mach 1 when I was stationed in Germany, and the PS was a pain in the ass, if you're familiar with ram type PS, you know. I called a junk yard back in the states and they sent me all the manual steering parts. When I was done, you'd never know it was originally a PS car. Now PHS does have production numbers for convertibles with Ram Air, that sort of high end thing, but low end cars like this one......they don't care. No one cares, just me, and I didn't think this car was even a little bit unusual when I bought it, because I'm into Mopars and bench seat four-speed Mopars are commonplace.....I figured GTO, same thing. Now a bench seat '70 Mustang would have gotten my attention, but a bench seat GTO didn't get my attention at all, not until a year after I bought it, and read that it's only 1% of GTOs. Then I got the PHS Report and figured out this is for sure the most unusual car I've ever owned, so I made this video 3 years ago, knowing that no one would be able to show me another car like this one. Three options, bench seat, four-speed, A/C.....and nothing else. For sure this car is one-of-one. It was special ordered by a guy that didn't order something that anyone else would want. The math isn't there for it. It's a rarity within a rarity. Bench seat with four-speed is rare, and any 60s car with A/C, but no PS or PB is rare. 77k '68 GTO hardtops, 1% were special ordered with bench seat (while buckets were standard on GTO). That's 770 bench seat GTO hardtops, not many at all. Three-speed was standard but most bench seat GTOs were ordered with column shift automatics for obvious reasons, and some had three-speeds, and some had four-speeds of course, but how many? 200? 300? No one knows. And only PHS has the means to find out.....if they cared. For sure, though, four-speed bench seat GTOs exist, you can find them online easy. But how many '68 GTO hardtops have that special ordered bench seat.....and the four-speed Muncie........and A/C, and no other options? And even if that car is out there, and I don't think it is........another '68 GTO hardtop with just those three options.....what are the chances that it's April Gold with a Parchment interior? I don't think April Gold was a very common paint choice. It wouldn't have been my choice. It wasn't my son's choice either, I gave him the car, and he wanted it blue: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
My son and I finally finished the body work. Lot's a block sanding. That car didn't have a straight panel on it. I think it came out pretty good. It looked straight when we finished the wet sand with 600 grit. We dropped it off at Maaco on 20 December. They didn't seem too busy, it should be painted soon. I'll have a new video up, once it's painted.
A few years back I remember a 68 GTO that was for sale and the women that ordered it ordered a bench seat with 3 spd on the column.Pictures of it were pretty wild.Yes a GTO with a bench is rare and now that I am older a prefer a bench more than buckets.I hope your son respects that car at such a young age.
He likes it. I've got a bunch of old cars, and I'm always wishing that there were more classics on the road. So I kind of forced my hobby onto my kids, just to get two more classics on the road in my home town. It worked, my daughter drives her '63 TBird, and she's also getting my '55 Pontiac. My son drives his '68 GTO, and neither one of them seem eager to sell them ever. And they've both been asked. They even have eyes on some of my cars, just waiting for me to die. :) It's a fun hobby. I get them involved when it's time to drop a transmission or something, but they aren't like me, they don't like wrenches too much. That's okay, they'll just need to find a trustworthy mechanic, once they are out on their own, nothing wrong with that. They'll both be 18 in a few months, that's when they get the titles in their names.
@@owenrobertson Same here,I have no kids thought just the wife.Cars don't survive In Massachusetts it's salt heaven.Seeing that Goat brings me back to the early 80s .I feel alone because it seems i'm the only one working on my cars in my driveway in my area.Even guys my age don't seem to know whats up.I will be 58 in Oct.thks
@@stephenyoutubin4476, I'm always telling people that I need a time machine set to 1982. Lots of great cars were up for sale in '82, and the price was right. I don't see any of my cars as an investment, I just like to drive them, so it sucks that so many great cars are now out of my price range, because I'd really like to own something with a 426 hemi under the hood. Rust is a problem in SC, but only when old cars just sit out in the weather. I grew up in CA, close enough to the desert, that nothing rusted, at all.
I have a 68 SS 396 Chevelle with bench and 4speed. Factory. I just googled GTO 4 speed bench and that's not a 1 of 1. Badass GTO either way. I even found a convertible version.
I love Chevelles, and you don't see enough '68 Chevelles. As for four-speed bench seat GTOs, they're out there, for sure. Not many, but they exist, but how many of them have factory A/C, but no PS or PB? This car was special ordered with a bench seat, four-speed, air conditioning, and nothing else. That's weird, really weird. Look for a '68 GTO with A/C, but no PS or PB, and you'll find some, but it's rare, because it's most likely a special order car. Look for a '68 GTO with a bench seat and a four-speed, and you'll find some, but it's rare, because it's absolutely a special order car. Now look for a '68 GTO with a bench seat, four-speed, and A/C, and nothing else, and that's the car you won't find because it's rarity inside a rarity. Is it a big deal? Nope. Is it valuable? Nope. Is it rare? Yup. Is it one-of-one? Well no one can show me another one, and some of the guys that have commented here are absolute GTO experts. And finally, is this car only rare because it was special ordered by a weirdo? Absolutely, but I think it's fun, so here I am. And my challenge stands. Can anyone show me another April Gold 1968 GTO with Parchment bench seat interior, Muncie wide-ratio four-speed, air conditioning, but no power steering and no power brakes?
@@owenrobertson Amazing story. I think it's SO cool that your boy daily drives that beauty. Please make another vid!!!! Thanks for your reply. When you nail it down like that I understand now. No power steering or disc brakes. You just might have a 1 of 1. Keep them muscle cars alive!!!! Great dad!! Special ordered by a wierdo cracked me up 😆
@@SHENDOH, yeah, it's just a weird car. Do you see a lot of '68 Chevelles? Since you have one, you'd notice more than me. Seems like I see a lot of '67 and older, and a lot of '69 and newer Chevelles. I can't figure out where all the '68 Chevelles went to. I gave my daughter my '63 TBird, and my son got the Goat, but we've been getting his GTO ready for paint, so he's been driving my 440 six-pack Road Runner: ruclips.net/video/AhFnnidMmb8/видео.html
Cool Find! My old 68 GTO was Aleutian Blue with Teal buckets but no console and column shift automatic but then had reclining passenger bucket option also with head rests (option in 68) disc brakes (4 piston) and safe-t-track diff with AC , PS , Rally II's
Nice! A reclining seat is about the only thing new cars have that I wish old cars had. None of my cars came factory with reclining seats, but my '75 Bronco has buckets out of an 80s Ford Escort in it, so they recline....it's nice to be able to pull off the road on long trips and take a nap. Come to think of it, my '66 Sunbeam Alpine has factory reclining seats, so that's 2 of my cars that have them, and 8 that don't, counting my kids' cars. And I didn't even know that a reclining seat was an option on '68 GTO. I'm almost done with the body work on my Road Runner, I want to start on the GTO's body next week.....then paint, he wants Windward Blue, a '69 GTO color. Should look great, GTOs look good in blue. Aleutian Blue with Teal interior is a great combination, that shade looks good with a Parchment interior as well.
Cool 68. I have a 69 that my Parents ordered new. I've had it since I was 16, I'm 54 now, so I've actually owned it longer then them. It was originally a manual steering, manual brake, air con and 4 spd car as well. (Bucket seats though) I've since added 4 wheel disc, a lee manufacturing power steering box and a complete UMI catalog at it. But it looks stockish. Of course I've kept all the original stuff. Looking forward to seeing your sons all painted up.
Oh man, that's cool that you've still got the car that your parents bought new! And it's a '69 GTO. That's awesome! I've got a good friend from high school named Guy Zindel III, his grandfather bought a brand new '71 Javelin, SST 401, top of the line Jav, they made less than 600, because most of the top dog 401 engines ended up in '71 AMXs. Anyway, Guy's grandfather has the same name as his grandson, so the original 1971 title is in my high school buddy's name (sort of), and when he was 14 or 15, granddad handed that '71 Javelin down to his grandson. My friend Guy still has that car, his dad and grandfather are long gone, and he's the last "Guy" standing, but the car moves on. I hope my kids continue to enjoy the cars I gave them for years to come, the way you've done with your '69. Thanks for commenting here, because as of right now, for the first time in my life, I'm starting to make note of every 60s car that I see or hear about with factory A/C, but no PS or PB. I've been going on and on about it on the GTO forum for the past few days. No one else cares of course, but that's never stopped me before. You just don't see a lot of 60s cars with A/C and no PS or PB, like yours and my son's. I'm just now realizing that. So I'm counting them all, starting now. I'm like The Count on Sesame Street. Me, you, and Evil Bane (who also has a '69 GTO), are all about the same age, and we all seem to agree on what's cool. Check out Evil's comments below, his family has owned some awesome cars, and his dad was into Pontiacs big time! Anyway, so far, I've counted two 60s cars with factory A/C, but no PS or PB, my son's '68, and your '69. If you know of any others, let me know, and they'll get added to the list as well. I want to go for a ride in your GTO, do you live East of the Mississippi? I'll swing by some time. All of my cars have stock, worn, and continuously aging suspension, that I only attend to when something is very broken, mostly they just cruise gently around town, not too exciting, but I still love driving them. Feels like I'm driving a piece of American history. UMI catalog is suspension parts right? Your car must handle great!
Dude if I was you I would keep the car and buy your son another! I've never seen one like this and I've seen a lot I'm 55 years old and I've never seen one.
Nope, it's his car. I bought it for him. He just joined the Navy. He deserves this car. I'm positive that Pontiac didn't make a lot of '68 GTOs with just three options, four-speed, bench seat, and A/C.....but it's only rare because what kind of guy would special order those three specific options for a GTO, and only those options? A/C was a very expensive option, over $300 I think, big money in 1967 when this car was special ordered. And the bench seat isn't even an option, it's a downgrade. It's an oddball car for sure, but it's just a novelty, and that's not why I bought it. I bought it because it was a four-speed GTO, at the time I would have bought any four-speed GTO, and this is the one I got a good deal on. I just like four-speed cars. There aren't a lot of them ordered just like this one, I personally think this is the only one, but it's rare for the wrong reasons, it's not worth any more than any other '68 four-speed GTO with the base engine. Fun car though, and thanks for your comment.
Shifter could have come out of a Nova SS as a friend had a factory bench seat Nova SS,,,and the Seat could have come out of a Lemans or tempest...BTW you CANNOT convert a 1969 GTO REAR Bumper and taillights onto a 1968 GTO...been there tried that...but you can put the 1969 GTO hide away grills onto a 1968 GTO with hide away headlights...they were much better looking...
I've got the PHS Report on this car. Fast forward to 10:53 in this video, that's the PHS and for sure it's a bench seat GTO, it's got the 236 trim code. That 236 code is also on this GTO's cowl tag, which is in this video at 1:38, showing the cowl tag decoded: ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html As for the shifter handle in this car, it's a vintage Hurst shifter handle that's correct for a bucket seat GTO and wrong for this bench seat GTO, I'm not sure who put it there, when, or why. I had no idea I had the wrong shifter in the car, until someone told me, but it doesn't surprise me, this car has a '69 LeMans trunk lid on it, so anything is possible. Someone saw this video, and commented letting me know it was the wrong shifter. Works fine though, barely hits the upholstery at all. And it's easy to reach, so we're fine with it. The guy that figured out I had a bucket seat shifter, was good enough to find the correct bench seat shifter on ebay for me: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293 He only wants a grand for it! I'll pass. That cracks me up though. I get that it's rare, but how many guys with a bench seat, four-speed GTO are missing their original dogleg bench seat Hurst shifter handle? Okay, there's me, so that' one for sure, but I only paid $8k for this entire GTO, a running driving car, am I really going to invest another $1k, just for a chrome stick with a dogleg bend that says Hurst on it? I bet I won't! If he wants a grand for that thing, he better hope someone has a big money GTO convertible HO with a bench seat and four-speed, or maybe a bench seat four-speed '69 Judge? And they are missing their original shifter for some reason, like I am? Good luck! You're right of course, it's a LeMans bench seat in my son's GTO, because GTO came standard with bucket seats, but this bench seat was never in a LeMans. Someone special ordered this GTO with a bench seat, so it came from the factory with it. Yeah, trying to put a '69 rear bumper and tail lights on a '68 GTO seems like more work than it's worth, plus why do it? I think the '68 rear bumper and tail lights look better. This car has the '68 rear bumper and tail lights, but it has a '69 LeMans trunk lid on it. I don't know when that happened either, but it's easy to do. It just leaves two large gaps that need to be filled, so I filled the gaps, check it out: ruclips.net/video/zybpy2nSDJo/видео.html Hide away headlights are cool, but this car wasn't optioned with them. This GTO only has three options, air conditioning, the four-speed, and the bench seat, and that's if you count the bench seat as an option and not a downgrade. Is it really an option if you don't have to pay extra for it? I don't know. Everything else on this car is standard equipment for a '68 GTO.
Hi from North Wales. Looks like the guy wanted a base Le Man's and the salesman got him to tick the GTO box and he ran out of money for options! Power windows but no power brakes let alone discs and no Safe T Track rear? Deleting those lovely Stratobuckets for a bench seat? The interior looks very tidy. Good luck with the repaint.
No power windows, no power steering, no power brakes, four wheel drum. It did have the posi rear end, but it came with 3.23 posi, because of the air conditioning. As for the bench, I can see if you've got a wife and four or six kids, you'd want that front bench to help squeeze them all in. But then you're shifting around the knees of whoever is riding front middle. Best for a teenager, I think, put your girlfriend front and center, nothing wrong with that. If it was just the bench and the four speed, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's the bench and the four speed AND the A/C without power brakes and power steering. It's just a weird car. A/C was crazy expensive back then, adding it was no small detail, and if you could afford A/C, you'd think you could afford the comparatively inexpensive extras like power steering and power brakes. Could be he just didn't like PS and PB, I'm not a fan either, more stuff to break. You're right though, why opt for the GTO, this guy would have been way better off with a four speed, air conditioned LeMans.
Hey Keith, I was just talking to Evil Bane below, and between you and Evil, you two have gotten it through my thick skull, that my son's GTO came with 3.23 open gears, and not Safe T Track. Exactly what you said above. I dismissed your comment because like I was just telling Evil Bane, I was positive that I had decoded the rear end codes correctly, and I was positive that it was a factory 3.23 posi car. I don't think I even looked at my PHS regarding the rear end. It didn't matter to me that the car no longer had it's posi, because when I had to replace the ring and pinion on that '68 GTO, I noticed that the open carrier unit was dated for a '69 car. I just figured the original posi had blown, and someone installed that open unit. But nope, PHS shows it, no posi, just like you said, so thanks for setting me straight. I like to have my car facts right. Also, ever since I was a teenager in love with Mustangs, I always knew that almost all GTOs had posi, and that Pontiac in general favored posi (see "The defense is wrong" scene from My Cousin Vinny, even that movie had me thinking that posi was just normal in Pontiacs). I think one of my friends way back when, may have exaggerated Pontiac posi numbers, and that bit of trivia just stuck in my head for decades. I still think that Corvette favored posi, hopefully I'm not wrong on that as well. Oh and I pulled out my PHS report and figured out why it looked like a power window car to you. On the same line, to the left, is the AM radio with manual antenna line, and that's what's highlighted yellow, but since I zoomed in for my video, all you see is the yellow just left of power windows, and you can't see where it says radio at all. So two mysteries solved!
@@owenrobertson Cheers Owen. You certsinly know your stuff. I just collected my rebuilt original 400 motor. I had it done by a race shop in Doncaster, Yorkshire this time after I made a hash of the motor about 20 years ago! Managed to save the crank, block and heads but new rods and pistons (again!) What do you do with 16 rods and 14 pistons? Think I'll weld them into a sculpture for over the workshop door! Dyno'd at 354 bhp and 400 foot lbs from 1950 to 5250. So I'm very happy right now. Next time it's on the ramp I'll have a look at the tag on the diff. It was still there last time I looked...
@@keithhoughton4308, ha! What do you do with 16 junk rods and 14 junk pistons? We'll you turn them into art of cour...........................oh look, you just said that, but I was thinking the same thing. That's really good power from your rebuilt 400! That engine is going to be great, it'll feel like a whole new car. The best kind of new car, a new car that was built in '69. You must be a sight, tearing up the Welsh streets in that beast! Talk about rare! The last time I was in Northern Wales (or Southern Wales, where I normally visited), I didn't see any American muscle cars at all on those streets. And you know, I visited London many times in the early 90s, and not once did I spot the surviving Beatles lined up nicely in a zebra crossing. Seems like false advertising, someone should talk to your tourism people.
A Ram Air convertible would be both rare and valuable, and a sweet ride, no doubt about it. This car is just rare, which is all that I'm claiming. No one can show me another one like it. That makes it rare. A lot of times, rare things are valuable, but not always. rare adjective (1) rarer; rarest Definition of rare (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : seldom occurring or found : uncommon 2a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : distinctive b : superlative or extreme of its kind 3 : marked by wide separation of component particles : thin #1 definition of rare, according to Merriam-Webster, "Seldom occurring or found" as in uncommon. How common is a four-speed bench seat GTO with A/C but no PS or PB? I think it's rare. I think this car is one of one. I don't think Pontiac made a handful like this one. I think it was special ordered by someone that marched to the beat of a different drummer. He didn't order the typical muscle car stuff at all, he certainly didn't order what I would have ordered. I don't think he ordered what anyone would have ordered. I've got a bunch of old cars, all very typical, you can find cars just like them with a quick google search. I've got a Lemon Twist Yellow '70 Road Runner, 440 six-pack, black bench seat interior, four-speed, Dana 60 with 3.54 posi, tic toc tach, air grabber hood, and factory hood pins, but no A/C, no PS, and no PB, and do I think my six-pack Road Runner is rare? Nope. Desirable sure, but not rare at all, a bunch of Road Runners were made just like it, because it's got a bunch of stuff that Plymouth figured a muscle car fan would like. Not this GTO though, it's not a typical muscle car at all. It's just weird. I don't think this GTO has a twin, and I find that interesting, but I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong.
Yeah, it's a weird one. A/C and the 4 speed are the only options....unless you count the special ordered bench seat as an option. Here's a video with some codes, fast forward to 1:29 for the engine code: ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html It's WT on the VIN stamped block, 350hp. The video says 360hp, but that's not me trying to pull a fast one, I just got a hold of a flawed decoder online, I should have checked more than one of those websites.....someone pointed it out in the comments, and I corrected myself in the video's description. As for the rear end, it was originally 8.2" with 3.23 open gears. If you ordered A/C, you got the relatively tame 3.23 gear ratio. I shelled out the 3.23 ring and pinion a few years ago, and called all over the country looking for another set. Best I could find was a 2.93 ring and pinion, in good used condition, so that's what's in it now, 2.93 open. I didn't want to change the carrier for steeper gears, or fork out for posi. I'm happy with the highway gears, it's not like I was trying to race anyone. It's just for cruising around town. My son drives it to work and school, but right now he's driving my '70 Road Runner, while we get his GTO ready for paint. We hope to get it painted next month, once we get it back, I'll post a new video of it. It's a good car, built to last. We like it. Drives nice too.
Oh, and it has the wide-ratio Muncie four-speed, and that has a lower first gear than the close-ratio Muncie. So the 2.93s aren't bad at all. And the 400 is bone stock and pretty tired, but it still puts out decent torque, so yeah, no complaints on the 2.93 gears.
I guess if yours is 1 of 1 then mine was too: "68 GTO hardtop with the following option load: white bench seat w armrest, factory AC, manual drum brakes, manual steering, M20 4 speed, exactly like yours! What was different: factory hood tach (no other optional gauges or clock!?) open rear (no posi) hideaway headlamps, black vinyl top, verdero green, dog dish hubcaps. A super weird car!!
Yup, both cars are in the weird muscle car club. Check online, you won't find another GTO like your car. Not that it matters much, I just like weird cars, and it's fun to find someone that had one very similar to how this one was ordered. This one came with open 3.23 gears. I guess the A/C got you those tamer gears, so you would be less likely to overheat while running the A/C on a hot day. I'm guessing yours had 3.23s as well. Cool that you had the hood tach and hideaway headlights. When did you own the car? And when did you sell it?
@@owenrobertson Purchased at age 16 in 1981 for $500 bucks in Aurora, Colorado. A totally original one owner car in typical worn condition for the times. Yup, 3.23 axle. Purchased a running rusty Michigan '69 GTO for $200 bucks (back when you could do such a thing!?....) and swapped in the power discs, 3.55 posi and power steering. sold the car in 1987 to someone in Minnesota who painted it in the original color and made it nice.
Oh, google '68 GTO bench seat shifter and you will see a guy on ebay selling just the handle for $1200 dollars (!laughs.....) thats the dog leg shifter mine had.......
@@weim64, sounds like your '68 went to a good home. I hope it's still in good shape today. They last, when you at least half-way take care of them. I hate when I see a great car just sitting out in the woods for decades. We get a lot of rain here in SC, and I don't know what makes people think these old cars are waterproof, just because they have a roof and windows. Yeah, I'm not in the market for any $1200 shifter handles, the one that's in there is just fine for my son. I found it on ebay, though, major dogleg, like you said, and way too much money, like you said. The funny thing about that ebay ad, is this guy has a bunch of sweet GTOs, and he knows his stuff, and he knows he's the only guy with this shifter, and he knows how rare it is, so it must be gold. I don't think it's gold though. I don't think there are too many guys willing to drop 1/8th the value of their whole car, just to have the correct shifter. Using that math, if I had an $80k GTO, I'd value that chromed piece of steel at $10k? I don't think so. I paid $8k for that GTO in 2017, and we've been offered slightly more than that, but I didn't fly all the way to St Louis, then drive it back to SC, just so I could sell it to some guy that lives in my town. I'm not a delivery service, they can find their own GTO. Also, my son seems to really like it, and that's the important thing here. Just trying to keep these old cars on the road. I hope he holds onto it.
nice Goat!! I Run A 65. just start light wet sanding, with some 300-400 .not gonna hurt it any. it will cut a ton of the black stuff off.. Happy Wrenching..
Nice! '65 is a good year! You're right, my DA and some 360 grit would make quick work of that cheap black paint job. That car has small dents on just about every panel though, even the roof, where people were sitting at some point in the car's life, oh and the hood has a rust hole you can put your finger in. Next month, I plan to sand it all down, do all the body work, and then have it painted. Just got a new hood for it, from National Parts Depot, so that's one panel that's straight. My son wants Windward Blue, a '69 color. He's got a job, and he's paying for all of it. He's doing good, and it's a great car, it'll look really nice in blue paint.
Nice! Were you class of '72? I graduated high school in '88, '72 would have been better. What were some of the other cars that kids in your school drove? Just the cool cars, no Pintos.
@@paulgrimm342, yeah, I figured as much. I miss being a kid in the 70s, lots of cool cars back then, that didn't all look the same, and a bunch of 50s cars still on the roads as well. I can still name all the cool cars at my high school, and who drove what, it's an impressive list.
@@paulgrimm342, need a time machine, 1982, that's probably a good year to buy some good cars cheap. You mentioned a '62 Impala. I went to high school with a guy named Bill, he drove a brand new IROC-Z, 5 speed car, it was okay, but not that fun to drive. I've never liked new cars. But Bill's dad had a Canary Yellow '63 Impala, a real 409 car, dual fours, four-speed. My senior year, he took us all for a ride in that Impala, after a car show in Santa Cruz, CA. Bill's dad, mom, and little brother up front. Me, Bill, and our friend Morrie in the back. That heavy Impala with six people in it, pulled up the Santa Cruz hills like there were nothing. 409 is a great engine, torque monster! Combustion chambers are in the block, and not the head, I'm not sure why no one copied that, because it seemed to work great on the 409.
my first car back in 75 was a 68 GTO with the parchment seats and black carpet/console etc. 400 auto hurst his and hers shifter. it also had the 8 track player and mind blower speakers. my 2nd car was a 65 Mustang GT with the pony interior. So we have a bit in common.
Yeah, that's cool! Nice cars! My '65 coupe had the Pony interior as well, but it wasn't a GT, just a 289 2 barrel. It was a Prairie Bronze car with Parchment interior, but someone had painted it rootbeer brown, for some reason. I put it back in Prairie Bronze paint before I sold it. I wasn't too sure about the GTO's parchment interior, what with the black dash and black carpet and all, but it's grown on me. The A pillar pads are supposed to be parchment, but we got new ones, and black seemed like a better idea. That's cool that you had the 8 track player in yours. My other hobby is 8 tracks, I've got over 200 of them, and I've put new pads and foil splices in all of them, it's a fun, cheap hobby, when I don't have money for car parts, I buy 8 track tapes.
And to think, I was freaked out that it is a 400 4 speed..no PS...no PB..but it had AC.....and now that you mention it, can not recall ever seeing any first gen GTO with a bench seat..not at an auto show or at a car museum...my buddy had a 1966 Impala SS with 4 speed and a bench seat...but there is a huge difference between who would buy an Impala new vs who would buy a GTO new.....I'd buy 1 of 1
Yeah, it's weird, because when you were paying for the GTO, you were paying for bucket seats (among other things). Someone wanted a LeMans bench in their GTO, which happened, just not a lot. Some guys wanted the LeMans chrome front bumper on their GTO, and they gave up the Endura bumper for it, also weird, but back then, the customer got what they wanted. I had a friend in high school with a bench seat '65 Mustang, six cylinder, 3 speed, and a bench seat.....in a '65 Mustang, how many of those have you seen?
I saw a base model '66 GTO with a 389 4 barrel and Ford T10 three speed on the floor with a Hurst shifter. No power brakes, no power steering, no air conditioning, an AM radio and 140 mph speedometer. It did have bucket seats and a console. Pontiac did just as much "oddball" stuff as any other manufacturer. If you can access the Pontiac database, then you'll know the answer to your question.
Yeah, everyone built weird stuff back then, normally because a customer special ordered a weird car, with options that others didn't want. You don't see it as much with muscle cars, because most muscle car guys wanted the same sort of stuff. PHS has all the raw data, but they never built a database, the way Marti Report did for Mustangs. There's a database for high-end GTOs, from what I hear, but that's it. PHS has all the original microfiche from Pontiac, so they have every '68 GTO, and exactly how each one was ordered, and if you send them money, they'll look up your VIN in their microfiche, print out the form for your car, and decode it for you.....so you'll know exactly how your car was ordered, with way more information than the cowl tag shows. That doesn't take much effort on their part. What I need is for a team of people to put all of that VIN based information from microfiche, into a searchable computer program, and then you'd know exactly how many cars like this '68 were built. You'd have to do all that by hand, and it's a lot of raw data. The guys on the GTO forum, that know people, tell me that will never happen.
That's awesome, your car was an oddball too, convertible, bench seat, 4 speed, no PS or PB, but they wanted power windows, how many like that have you seen? And the convertibles are so nice! There's a convertible '70 GTO in my small town, Cardinal Red with '69 Judge stripes on it. It also has the "Ram Air IV" on the hood scoops. It was always parked in a garage, across from my kid's school, when they were young and I had to pick them up. When I was still driving my son's '68 GTO, I picked up the kids from school one day, almost four years ago, I saw the garage door up, and that beautiful '70 GTO sitting inside, so I parked in front of his house and went looking for the guy. My kids thought I was crazy. I met him though, and he was really nice. I saw under the hood, and all the ram air stuff was there. In talking to him, I learned he's a Purple Heart recipient, who ordered this car brand new, when he got back from Vietnam, and he had it delivered to the Walter Reed military hospital, where he was laid up. He couldn't drive it yet, so he handed the keys to one of the doctors, and the doctor pulled it around to a parking spot that was visible from this guy's hospital bed. After hearing that story, I wasn't about to ask about the Judge or Ram Air IV decals on his car. I don't think it's original paint, I'd guess a respray from the 80s, and I'd guess that's when those stickers were added. Great looking car though, gorgeous black interior, hood tach as well. I talked to his daughter a few months ago, when I spotted the car out of the garage and in the driveway. She said her dad had recently passed away, and she plans on getting his GTO back on the road in his memory. She was very nice as well, I told her that I had met her dad, and she was happy to talk about him and the car. I asked her if I could take some photos of the car, and I wish I could post them here. Hopefully she makes it to some of the local car shows in the near future.
@@mikemiskiman4743, cool! What's the 55 paint? Crystal Turquoise? That would look great with the Parchment interior. And why did you spell the word "color" correctly? Where are you from? Here's a nice convertible in Crystal Turquoise, but with a white top and black interior: ruclips.net/video/OmekBLF4nd8/видео.html
Yeah, they're out there, on the GTO forum, someone told me that 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars. They made 77,000 '68 GTOs, and 1% of 77,000 is still a good number of cars 770 of them, and an unknown percentage of that 770 had manual transmissions. The '68 Ram Air cars with manual transmissions outnumber the Ram Air automatic cars by like 7 to 1, and that's to be expected, I'm surprised they weren't all outfitted with 4 speeds, mandatory, like the 409 Impalas, the 427 Galaxies, or the Boss Mustangs. With the 400 HO GTOs, it's more like 2 to 1, manual over automatic, but for the standard 4 barrel 400, like I've got, automatics win, 39k to 25k produced in '68. So based on the car, you can kind of guess what transmission they are going for. No one knows what percentage of bench seat GTOs came with 4 speeds, but it's not a lot, they're out there, but it's not a lot. Most people that wanted to ditch the standard GTO bucket seats, because they wanted a LeMans bench....they aren't the kind of people that wanted four on the floor. I didn't buy this car because it was a four speed bench seat GTO, I bought it because it was a 4 speed GTO. I didn't think anything of the bench seat until I got on the GTO forum. I already had a bench seat four speed Road Runner, which is very common, so I just figured it was common with GTOs as well. Then I got my PHS and found out that it came from the factory with A/C, but no PS or PB. Now that's weird on any 60s car. It's so weird, that when I saw it was an A/C car, but no power steering or power brakes, I just figured that someone ditched the power steering and replaced it with non-power at some point. You see old cars with nothing, all the time, no options, no power steering, no A/C, no power brakes, those no option muscle cars were built for guys that just wanted power, they wanted to go racing. You see fully loaded muscle cars all the time, those were the guys with money, they were after the nicest car in the neighborhood. And then you find cars with A/C and PS, but no PB..........or A/C and PB, but no PS. And of course tons of cars with no A/C, but PS or PB, or both. That's all very common. It's very odd to find a 60s car with A/C and no PS, no PB, when I see that at a car show, it's always a car that came with nothing, but now has aftermarket A/C on it. And I've been looking hard for cars with A/C but no PS or PB, recently, because it's something I never thought about before. It's just weird the way this car was ordered. Who orders a car like this? Not me, I'd keep the buckets, and the 4 speed, ditch the A/C, and opt for the best engine instead.
Yes it’s definitely a unique GTO with the beach seat and 4 speed, no matter what ,it’s a GTO and that alone makes it a special car...👍👍👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸, lm a 70 owner myself and like yourself l have many muscle cars and to me the GTO is bar non the top dog.....
Yeah, I bought it because it was a four-speed GTO, and the price was right. I figured it would be a good solid car for my son. I love my B body Mopar, but GM A body is the better built car, it's not even close. I love all my old cars, but when you wrench on all of them, it's easy to see where Ford and Mopar cut corners to save money. In the same years, GM didn't do that, not with the A body anyway. Because of that, a brand new GTO would be more expensive than a brand new Road Runner or Mustang, so I get the sales appeal for the cheaper cars, back when they were new. Fast forward to 2021 and people are spending the same big money on Mustangs, Road Runners, and GTOs. I recently saw a '68 fastback Mustang with a 2 barrel 289 and an automatic with an asking price that would get you a '70 Judge. My advice would be, go with the Judge.
Thanks for sharing! The way your sons car is specked out is unique. One would think if your going to have a/c and a bench front seat, why not have power brakes and steering too. It is a great topic for conversation how about why the car ended up with the options that it did.
Yeah, I'm interested in a car's story, this car has one, but we'll never know. Whoever ordered it was a different kind of guy. He wanted a muscle car and he paid for the GTO package, but he didn't want it to have the typical muscle car stuff. I only bought it because it was a four speed GTO. I figured it was a Power Steering, A/C car, and someone just ditched the PS stuff, because of a leak or something. It happens, and there's nothing on the cowl tag that tells you what accessories it came with. Then I got the PHS Report on the car, and found out that for sure it came with A/C, but no PS or PB. After decades in this hobby, that's the first time I gave it any thought, but when you think about it, how many 60s cars have you seen with factory A/C, but no PS or PB? Anything can happen, but I don't think it happened a lot. A/C was an expensive option back then around $200 I think, and that's big money in 1968, in contrast, PS and PB only added around 30 or 40 bucks each. It's not important at all, but like you said, it's a conversation topic, for guys that like to talk about old cars, and how you used to be able to special order anything you wanted back then.
@@Harleyforever20, hopefully I'll have a new video of it in a couple months, to show off the new paint job. It's going to to be Windward Blue, a '69 GTO color.
I believe you. You can go to the GTO forum, there's a whole discussion thread there for bench seat GTOs about 1% of GTOs were special ordered with the bench seat, most are column shift automatics, but some are 3 speed cars, and some are 4 speed cars. They are out there, just rare. This one is a double rarity, as A/C only with no PS or PB (or both) is rare in any 60s car. This car only has three options, A/C, four-speed, and bench seat (which is more of a downgrade than an option, since buckets were standard on GTO). If you look at any other 3 option GTO, those aren't the options you'll see. I still want to see pics of your car though. What color is it? I gave this one to my son, it's blue now: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
It's got options, A/C and the four-speed. I've owned a bunch of old cars, I've never owned anything newer than 1975. It's the rarest old car that I've ever owned. I can find twins of my other cars easy. Not this one. It's as rare as I believe it is, until someone can show me another one like it. I'm not saying it's special, I'm just saying that a bench seat 4-speed '68 GTO with A/C, but no power steering and no power brakes, is an oddball GTO that you won't see at a car show, or on the internet (except for this one), I've looked. Now a no-option 4-speed GTO like you said, wouldn't be rare at all, it was ordered for racing, lots of muscle cars were ordered like that. This one wasn't special ordered by a guy that wanted to go racing, A/C is dead weight and that bench seat is way heavier than it looks....I'm not sure what this guy wanted, maybe he just wanted to order something weird for the sake of being weird. I'll never know. Not that it matters, it's not even my car anymore, I gave it to my son, and he wants it Windward Blue. I can't argue with that, I like GTOs in any shade of blue.
Cool old war wagon! I would say you might be right. It is one of those odd ball customer ordered cars, I would say. I seen a guy selling a Grand Torino Super Cobra jet 428. It was like this car. some one ordered it with a bench,4speed, and with out the shaker hood but yet had a drag pack??? Guy said it was one of 3 made. I said yeah, it is rare because some one chose these odd ball options.
Yup, that's all I'm on about. It's not a big deal, but it's the kind of thing I like. All of these old cars have stories. I wish I knew the story behind this one, and why the original owner wanted it this way. I love it, but if I was the guy ordering it new, I would have checked very different boxes.
Just vinyl wrap it the color he wants, when you pull the wrap off some day it’ll take all that black with it! Problem solved can do the wrap yourself and it’s a cheap fox to his paint job problem
@@thomasjohnson1222, yeah, I've owned a bunch of old cars, and this one stands out. It's a genuine pleasure to drive. It's not fast, the engine is a bit tired, and it's a heavy car, but it goes down the road so nice. I was never a Pontiac fan, but I am now. I've got a '55 Pontiac as well, which is the first year for the overhead valve Pontiac V8. In the '55, it's just 287 cubic inches, but it's the same basic engine that grew all the way to the famous 455. Good engine.
I moved in the early ninties to petal miss. and the wife was pregnet for no. 4 and we needed to get a family car so we went to the buick dealership in hattisburg . when we walked in show room doors low and behold a 68 gto mint condition. They wanted 8000.00 for it. I was drulling al over da place. It had orginal 8 tract n trunk was clean with da factory spare. 20000 miles on it original. I put up a fight but family won
@@thomasjohnson1222, I paid $8k for this one, and the trunk floor was rusted out, but the floor boards were good, rust in the trunk and the hood and that's it. I welded in a new trunk floor, and ordered a new hood for it. I took my family to the Hattisburg zoo, back when I was stationed at Keesler AFB, not long after Katrina. Yeah, family comes first. Then more cars.
Keep the GOAT for yourself -- you seem to have alot of interest in it with the PHS documentation, etc. The kids today could care less about old muscle cars ! Kid would probably rather have a neon green Honda with the ever popular weed eater exhaust !
I have a lot of interest in all old cars, and not just the ones that I own, and not just this one particular '68 GTO. I can talk about old cars for hours, so many stories. I've been collecting old cars since 1985, and I've got a bunch of them. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and I'm not the kind of guy that's going to have his son driving around in a Honda Civic, simply because that's what I think the kids like these days. I know way more about cars than my son does, but he's learning, just yesterday I made him research and explain to me why the windshield wipers in the '55 Pontiac slow down when the engine is under a load, and now he knows. And he did all the work when the GTO needed a new clutch, I just supervised, and he helped with the body work and block sanding on the GTO, these past two months, we wrapped all that up last week, and the old Goat is at the paint shop now. Dad's that are into old cars should share that with their kids, it's a great hobby. Just like in 1985, when I had a job and wanted to buy a $500 VW bug. My dad had a '32 V12 Cadillac, and a '69 Lincoln, he knew way more about cars than the 15 year old boy that I was back then, and he said, you don't want the VW, you want one of these two cars, he had the local newspaper opened to the classified listings, two cars were circled. One was '38 Plymouth convertible, Canary yellow, rodded out, and the other was a rootbeer brown '65 Mustang coupe, 289 2 barrel, C4 automatic. I fell in love with the Mustang, but looking back, I wish my dad would have used his influence to have me drive the '38 Plymouth before making my decision.....I never even looked at that '38 Plymouth, but obviously it's the better choice. Again, what did I know, I was just a kid. Anyway, my son is like I was, he wasn't in love with any one type of car, anymore than I wasn't in love with the idea of owning a VW bug, I just wanted a car I could drive. That's what kids want, something to drive, and he loves driving the GTO. My son isn't in love with rice burners, he never was, and that's not even what's popular with the kids in my town, they seem to like 4x4 pickup trucks with hydraulics, they drive around town with the front end jacked, and the rear end low....I'm told they call it "squatting". They'll outgrow that trend. Meanwhile, I never outgrew the car hobby that I fell in love with in the mid-eighties. It ends with my generation of course, like you said, very few car guys younger than me are into the 50s and 60s cars that I love so much, I'm the last of the American Graffiti wanna-bes, but I know a few guys in their 20s that know a ton about 60s muscle cars, and they even own a few of them. I joke with them, that as soon as me and all my old-timer car buddies die off.....they'll be able to buy whatever they want, and it'll be cheap. The museum quality stuff will still be big money, but regular driver quality stuff, will be cheap, once all us old guys aren't around to fight over them, like we are now. So yeah, my kids are twins, my son got my '68 GTO, and my daughter got my '63 TBird and my '55 Pontiac, and I've still got enough cars left over in my collection to keep me busy until I'm 100 years old. Now, will my kids be fanatics like me, and never own anything new, for as long as they live? Of course not, most people aren't like me, I'm clearly a nut job, but for right now, they'll drive their classics to school and to work, and when they break, I know how to fix them, and they'll help me with the repairs, so they can learn just a little bit about cars in general. It works out well, and repairs are cheap and easy. If I was a horse guy with a bunch of horses, my kids would have gotten horses, and not cars. But I'm not a horse guy, I'm a car guy, and I don't want my kids to have my cars just when I'm dead. I want to watch them drive these cars now. I enjoy it. It's rewarding, sharing the hobby you love with your kids That's what it's about really, love of the hobby. Everyone needs a hobby: ruclips.net/video/AhFnnidMmb8/видео.html
Ive always wanted a GTO.......but im more into the full size 62-66 poncho guy i have a 62 catalina tri power 4 speed bench seat car as well as a 66 grand prix tri power 8 lug 3 speed stick console delete bucket seat car.......
You mean taking the VIN tag and cowl tag from one car, then moving them to another? Yeah, that sure enough happened. It was the whole idea behind the first Gone in 60 Seconds movie that came out in 1974. I don't think it happened a lot, and I know it didn't happen with this GTO, because the VIN stamped block is still in it, and those guys didn't go through all that much trouble, to fake a block stamping, not for a car like this GTO. It did happen though. I read about a '64 Corvette that was at a car show, and the Vette's owner never decoded his numbers. Another Vette guy looked at his VIN tag, and it was the VIN tag off a '64 Impala, same year Chevy, just not a Vette. I guess they titled them as whatever year and then just Chevy, where they were at, and the DMV didn't add little details like Impala or Corvette, back when the car was stolen in the 70s. That's lazy car thief right there, he didn't even buy a wrecked '64 Vette, he bought a wrecked '64 Impala, put that VIN tag on the stolen '64 Vette, sold it, and got away with it from 1976 until very recently. No one noticed until that car show. So he takes his Impala Vette from the car show, to the Highway Patrol and they find the Vette's original VIN stamped on the frame rail, now they know the car's real owner, and it was reported stolen in 1976, and now the guy that paid big money for that car, just lost it, it's no longer his, and they'll never catch the thief, the thief totally got away with it. So I agree, pay attention to those rivets, but more importantly, find the car's "hidden" VIN, and make sure that matches the title and VIN tag as well. And it's nice if you've got the VIN stamped block, but it's understandable that a lot of old cars have replacement engines by now. I'm a big fan of documentation and decoding my numbers, so I made a video for my Vette, and at the very beginning of this video, there's a screenshot of that poor guy and his Vette: ruclips.net/video/Zp3cCYdohzA/видео.html
@@owenrobertson In the 70s I went to a lot of shows and flea markets and there you could get any cowl tag you wanted stamped right there. It was then all a gag or car nerd stuff the value did not change much. They said mustangs were easiest to change. Moms 6 cylinder stang became a boss 302 overnight!
@@markcollins8326, yeah, but it didn't become a Boss 302 overnight, because the fifth digit in a Ford or Mopar's VIN is the engine code. And her VIN's fifth digit was the letter code for six banger, not Boss 302. The fifth digit in a Boss 302's VIN is G. Hers wasn't G, so changing the body tag, is no good at all (it's actually just a sticker on a '70 Mustang's driver's door, and not a metal tag at all, '69 Mustang still had the metal tag though, like earlier Mustangs). Mustang guys call it a data plate, Mopar guys call it a fender tag, since that's where it's at, but you're right, it's a cowl tag on the GTO, located under the hood, on the driver's side cowl area. Anyway, getting a new body tag (or sticker) for your Mustang has always been easy to do, but it's not enough. You'd have to change the VIN tag as well, assuming you're starting with a six cylinder Mustang that's also a '69 or '70 Sportsroof. Then you'd have to go to the DMV and ask them to please change the VIN on your title to match your new VIN tag, because you need that G on there. Then they would tell you to go to the Highway Patrol for a VIN inspection, then the Highway Patrol would check the hidden VIN that's stamped on the '69 or '70 Mustang's fender apron that you have to unbolt and lift the fender to see, then the HIghway Patrol would tell you that you don't have a G code Mustang (Boss 302), and in fact, you have a T or L code Mustang (six cylinder). And that would be the end of that. So like you said, at best, changing your fender tag like that would be a silly gag, nothing more, it would be senseless, it's not even worth drilling the old rivets out. I'm not saying no one ever did it, and I'm not saying you can't fake a body tag, but I don't think a lot of people did it. And it wouldn't fool anyone that knows old cars. My son's GTO's VIN says it's a 68 GTO hardtop built in Kansas City, MO, and it's got the production number. Name, rank, and serial number, and that's it, very little information on a GM VIN. Unfortunately, GM didn't use the fifth digit of the VIN for the engine code, the way Ford and Mopar did. His cowl tag says it was built the 3rd week of October, 1967, and it's a '68 GTO coupe built in Kansas City, MO, and it's got unit number, and the only additional information on that body tag is that it was painted April Gold, with no vinyl top, and it came with Parchment bench seat interior. That's it for the VIN and cowl tag, not a lot there, nothing that's even worth changing, even if you knew a guy that made fake cowl tags. Ford and Mopar were way better at putting useful information on their tags, GM not so much. Fortunately for me, this is a Pontiac, so I called PHS (Pontiac Historic Services), and purchased my car's PHS Report from them. They charged me like 80 bucks I think, but it's worth it. I've never found a build sheet in any of my old cars, but with PHS, you don't need it. They have the original billing information from Pontiac corporate on microfiche, for lots of years of vintage Pontiacs. GM's Pontiac division didn't need to keep that information forever, and PHS somehow got a hold of it. So you send them the money and your car's VIN, then they find your car's original billing form, in their microfiche, they print it out, and decode it for you. It has the VIN on it, and all the codes on how to build the car, every last detail from the top to the tires. PHS sends you the copy of the billing form, with all the codes on it, and they also send you a packet, decoding everything for you, so you know exactly what your car came with. In the video above, fast forward to 10:40, and that's the billing sheet with all the codes, straight from 1968, for my son's GTO. After that, there's some screenshots of the PHS Report, highlighted in yellow is what this car came with. Thanks to PHS, Pontiac guys know exactly what they have. Get a PHS report and you'll know immediately if someone has changed your cowl tag. Decoding the VIN and cowl tag is fun, but the PHS has way more information, like engine, trans, rear end gear ratio (posi or open gears), what options, like A/C, PS, or PB, all highlighted yellow, if that code is on your car's original billing sheet. The PHS even shows you what radio your car came with, 10:42 in the video above. It'll tell you if your car came with power windows, tilt steering, or custom pedal trim (my son's didn't have any of that). The PHS is gold, every little detail can be found there. Of course my PHS report backs up everything on the VIN and cowl tag, and my engine has it's VIN stamp on it that matches, and just looking at my car, it does appear to be a 1968 GTO with April Gold paint and a parchment bench seat interior with A/C and no PS or PB. I'm still agreeing with you though, you should absolutely know your car, and if you know your car, you'll know if someone's messed with the body tag. Oh, and Mustang guys can order a Marti Report, same idea as the PHS, Report, if you're a Mustang guy and you've got an altered data tag, the Marti Report will let you know. Here's a video I made that shows the decoded VIN and cowl tag for my son's '68 GTO, at 1:34 and 1:37. ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
@@owenrobertson I do know now that this is a very sensitive subject and as one who lived in the 70s yes many did this otherwise there would not have been so many selling cowl tags made on the spot. Get real - most cars were tame consumer variants - not big block vets or boss mustangs - the extreme variants were raced and destroyed in a short time. Engines, trans, axels were blown and discarded. Cars wrecked and parted out. For a few dollars you could get 427, 428, 440 engines at any local wrecking yard and yes the cowl plate if you wanted. A simple pencil rubbing of the block number or cowl plate got you a new title at the dmv. They were a simple papper then that many people lost and were easy to replace. Yes you are technically correct but the reality is that most extreme muscle cars today are fakes. But so what - thats the way it is.
@@markcollins8326, most cars were tame consumer variants - not big block vets or boss mustangs. And they still are, big block Vettes and Boss Mustangs are still very rare, you don't have one simply because you bought a cowl tag at a flea market. Now if you want to talk about how many clones there are, like SS Chevelles, then I'm totally with you, there are tons of fake SS Chevelles on the road, but swapping a cowl tag doesn't make a Chevelle an SS, there's nothing in a Chevelle's VIN tag or cowl tag, that specifically says it's an SS in the first place, so yeah, guys just buy the SS badging. It's like my Vette, there's nothing in the VIN or body tag saying is a 340hp L76 327, but I have my VIN stamped L76 engine, and it's date code correct for my car, and without a build sheet that's as good as it gets, and people in the hobby understand that. So I agree, lots of clones, but if you think there are lots of clones fetching $50k or better, because people are fooled by them, you're wrong, there are way too many experts, and most of these big money cars are very well documented. And guys with really nice clones, advertise them as really nice clones, and they still get big money, just not the money that a real Boss 302 would get. As far as faking a Boss 302 or Boss 429? Good luck, you won't fool anyone that knows those cars. It's not as easy as you seem to think it is. Going to the flea market and buying a cowl tag and VIN tag, or getting a 440 from the junk yard, doesn't change your car's identity, and it doesn't change your car's original hidden VIN that's stamped on the car's fender apron, or frame rail, or core support, or wherever it happens to be, because it's in different places for different cars, and sometimes it's very hard to find. I had to unbolt the body of my Vette, and raise it up, just a bit, to even spot it's hidden VIN, because it's stamped on the top of the frame rail and the car's body is right on top of it. To grind that VIN stamp off of the frame rail, and then re-stamp it with a new VIN, you'd need to completely remove the body from the frame. So now you've got a VIN and a cowl tag that doesn't match your car's hidden VIN stamp, and most guys didn't know where that hidden VIN was, not back in the 70s, before google. Or you were lazy, and you just replaced the cowl tag, but now you have a cowl tag that doesn't match the manufacturers records on how they originally built that car. It's hard work doing it right, doing it to the point where no one can ever figure it out, and most crooks don't like hard work. To do it right, you don't need a cowl tag with made up numbers from the flea market, because that won't fool anyone that knows cars, it won't match the VIN and it won't match the manufacturer's records for that VIN. To do it right, you need the VIN tag from a real car that has a real history, and it's on record with the manufacturer and the DMV, not just made up numbers. Then you need that same car's body tag, and the hidden VIN stampings, and if you really want to make it look good, you might want the VIN stamped engine as well, but no big deal if you don't get that, because cars blow up engines all the time, so most people don't get to keep their VIN stamped engines forever, and some people that raced their musclecars, blew an engine within the first year or two. It's a lot of work to get all of that, even if you skip the engine and transmission, you need to buy a wrecked car that has a clean title, and not a salvage title. Then you've got to remove all those numbers that I mentioned to include the VIN stamping on the core support (for Mopars), that's a deep stamp, you can't just grind it off and restamp it, you'll need to swap out the core support. The core support doesn't just unbolt from the car, you need to cut it off the wrecked car, and weld it to the stolen car, it's why it's called a "chop shop" and not a "let's go to the flea market and buy a fake cowl tag shop". Here's how you do it right, it's the opening sequence from 1974's "Gone in 60 Seconds", that movie starts off with what looks like a documentary on how to steal a car and get away with it: ruclips.net/video/UaP5KcEFuZE/видео.html If someone had done all that work and more, with my son's '68 GTO, then yeah, I'd be fooled, and the PHS would be meaningless, because it would be the PHS for the VIN of the totaled out car, that was crushed years ago, and not the PHS Report for the stolen car. And the DMV wouldn't know any better, and a VIN inspection of the car would turn up nothing, because the thief already knew about any hidden VIN stampings. I say, "all that work and more", because in my case the numbers alone, aren't enough. The whole point of that 1974 Gone in 60 Seconds, movie, when they steal that Challenger, is that you buy the wrecked car, and then you steal that wrecked car's twin. Well the whole point of my video here, is that my son's '68 GTO doesn't have a twin, it's too much of an oddball. So you'd have to buy the totaled '68 April Gold GTO with Parchment benchseat interior, A/C and a four-speed, and nothing else, and you'd have to do your best to find that car's twin and steal it. It doesn't have a true twin, so you steal a '68 GTO that's April Gold and has parchment interior, and a four speed and air conditioning. It'll take a while to find even that, but they're out there. Of course the car you stole has bucket seats, because bucket seats were standard on GTO, so you'll need to swap in the bench seat from the wrecked GTO. A bench seat only needs four bolts to secure it, and the buckets needed four bolts for each seat, so you'll have to remove the carpet, and weld up the extra holes, then grind the welds down good, so no one can tell. The A/C car you stole also has PS, PB, or both, so those have to come out, and be replaced with the non-power stuff from the wrecked car that you have the clean title for. Oh and the car you stole, came off the assembly line a month after the wrecked car, so now none of the date codes work, and the engine, trans and rear end all have to be swapped out into the stolen car as well. Here's what I know. The VIN, cowl tag, and PHS Report all say it's a '68 GTO with the standard 400 4 barrel, four-speed, in April Gold, with a Parchment bench seat interior, A/C, the base radio, and nothing else. When I bought the car, it still had the original interior, and it was Parchment bench seat, with none of the bolt holes for bucket seats in the original floorboard. And you can still see the original April Gold paint, and you can see that it's a factory A/C car, with no PS or PB. And the VIN is stamped on the engine, and the date codes on my engine, trans, and rear end all match the assembly date of the car. So it's either a '68 GTO that no one has ever tampered with, wearing it's original cowl tag..................or it's a stolen car, stolen by the hardest working car thieves ever, and it's an amazing fake. Which do you think?
@@leecornell8074, you've got a great car. How many GTOs have you seen with air conditioning and no PS or PB? Rare to see that, right? Not cool, not desirable, not something you even think about, but rare to spot one for sure. I never thought about it until I came across this car, then I started thinking back. Of all the 60s cars I've owned, or the ones my friends and family has owned, I can't think of one that had factory AC, but no PS or PB, like this '68 GTO. And I've had a bunch of car buddies since the mid-80s, and we've owned a bunch of 60s cars, and I've been under the hood of most of them with a wrench in my hand, so these are cars that I know pretty well. It's just a sampling of 60s cars, but it's a good sized sampling, and of that sampling, none came factory with AC only. Such cars exist of course, this GTO is proof of that, but the percentage is low enough that you sure don't see too many in your travels. When I see a 60s car at a car show and it has AC, but no PS or PB, it's always an aftermarket setup like Vintage Air. Like I said, it's not something I used to look for, but now, since coming across this GTO, when I'm at a big car show, and the hoods are up, it's easy enough for me to take note. In any 60s car with factory air conditioning, you normally see ps, pb, or both. Just AC is weird, because it was very expensive back in '68, about a $300 option I think, and I think you could get ps and pb for about $60 each. Of course most cars weren't special ordered cars, they were just what the factory thought people wanted, so the factory built lots of cars with various options, and I'd guess few or no cars with AC only, because that's not what the Big Three thought the customer wanted. Anyway, this GTO is a special order car, I'd guess that yours is as well, given the bench seat, but this car was ordered with only three options, 4-speed, AC, and bench seat, everything else is standard GTO equipment. How many '68 GTOs came with just those three options? Those are three strange options. How many people ordered just that? If you could pick any three options, why those three? Those aren't the ones I'd order. Convertible, ram air, 4-speed, would be way better options than AC, bench seat, 4-speed. I don't think many '68 GTOs were optioned like this one, and if there is one, was it also ordered in April Gold paint and Parchment interior? I doubt it. There aren't many bench seat GTOs, but they exist, according to the GTO forum, about 1% of GTOs came with the bench seat. There are even fewer bench seat 4-speed GTOs, but they exist, just go to the GTO forum, there's a whole section there for GTOs with bench seats, and some of them have 4-speeds for sure, but not many, a 4-speed bench seat GTO is very rare, we're talking about hundreds of cars, not thousands at this point. They made 77,704 '68 GTO hardtops, if it's true that 1% had bench seats, then were down to just 777 bench seat GTOs in '68. How many of those bench seat GTOs have 4-speeds? I have no idea, but I'd guess it's not half of that 777. A large majority of bench seat GTOs seem to have column shift automatics, which makes sense, since you'd want a bench seat for a family of six or seven, and shifting in a packed car would be a lot easier with a column shift automatic. I've also seen bench seat '68 GTOs with the 3 speed manual transmission, which would also bring down the possible number of 4-speed bench seat GTOs. So I'd guess that it's a lot less than half of that 777 number. I'd guess that there were 200, maybe 300 bench seat 4-speed '68 GTOs like ours, but who knows? If someone guessed 150, I think it would be hard to say that's impossible. And even if it's as high as 300, how many of those 300 bench seat, 4-speed GTOs, have just one other option.....air conditioning? Not many right? And how many are April Gold with Parchment interior? I'm just speculating of course. I just like talking about old cars. I don't think anyone knows for sure how many bench seat GTOs there are, 1% is just someone's educated guess, but none of the GTO experts seem to think it's a bad guess. PHS can't help, because they never built a searchable database on cars like ours that aren't high end, $100k stuff. They have all the raw data, but they don't have the resources to move it all from microfiche to a computer database, so it just sits, until the microfiche completely disintegrates and that's it, I guess. I don't know how long microfiche from the 1960s lasts, but from some of the PHS print outs I've seen, it's already starting to go. I was lucky, as you can see at 10:40 in this video, my microfiche was in good shape, and it printed out nicely. All I learned from my PHS was that this car came with AC, but didn't come with PS or PB, that information isn't on the cowl tag, but bench seat is on the cowl tag, so that's odd. You never know what's been changed on an old car, it's really easy to remove PS and PB without a trace, especially in the late 70s and 80s, when all you needed was a donor junk yard car to take the parts off of, so I'm glad I got the report. I bought a report for a buddy of mine as well, when he bought a '68 convertible Firebird. He learned from the PHS that it was a 350 HO car. I don't even remember the 350 HO Firebirds, but it came with a stripe package and everything. Cool car, but there was no evidence left that it was a 350 HO, had a '69 engine in it, and the original 3-speed manual, and the original paint with the 350 HO stripes was long gone. Nothing in the VIN or cowl tag told you it was a 350 HO, so that PHS report really came in handy, it was the only thing telling us what this car was. I think it's a big deal, '68 350 HO convertible Firebird? I think that's cool, even if he doesn't have the original engine. He doesn't care much, most guys don't I guess. He installed a 400 and a 4-speed, I don't blame him. Anyway, his microfiche for the PHS printed out nicely as well, so hopefully the bad print outs that I see from deteriorated microfiche are the exception and not the rule. It would be nice if that 60s microfiche lasted another 50 years. Does your car still have the correct 4177 Hurst shifter handle? This one doesn't, you can see it in the video at 8:37, someone swapped in a normal Hurst shifter handle from a bucket seat GTO at some point in the car's life, so it doesn't have the bench seat dogleg in it. Someone with a sharp eye spotted that and let me know, it's somewhere in these comments. It's hard to spot in my poor quality video and only something that a bench seat 4-speed GTO owner would probably even notice. I had no idea there was a special dogleg bent Hurst shifter handle for the bench seat cars. The guy that pointed it out to me also found the correct shifter for sale on ebay, it hasn't sold yet. There's a GTO expert on ebay, selling it, but he wants a grand for it because it fits such a rare car. Problem is rare doesn't always mean valuable, and I'm guessing only a guy with a valuable car is going to drop a grand to have the correct shifter, especially when the bucket seat shifter works just fine in a bench seat car. Maybe there's a '69 or '70 Judge owner with a bench seat and the wrong shifter, but I doubt it. I'm guessing most bench seat GTO owners still have their original 4177 Hurst shifter, that's why I ask about yours, it should look like this: www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Year%3A1968%7CModel%3AGTO&epid=1139811090&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoM4V%2Bgv1huFUziNIhN88EGHHTKAhCQO0IGkR65r%2BKmmNegfakKJzRHDPS2jxPenAMeqy8Kw2D5kvbyqgoRSED%2Bgc1KJ7PE27uJedopCY2Gan1BNczIesAJXkFPodDB8t6FMgGHjI2F%2FZXyjIZRNNb1UFM4f7Rlxg4jU4hVCx7BwRrfZ7P6PdI47zs0UZUSP%2F4Ga8OtS%2Bei3haKbyUdfPMKE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-Lgq6DqYA $999 for a shifter handle, crazy! This hobby is getting way too expensive, he can keep that shifter handle, even though I totally agree that what he has is a rare find, you won't find many of those for sale. A 4-speed bench seat GTO is rare for sure. I'd argue that a GTO with AC only is also rare, which would make this car a rarity inside a rarity. Not that it matters. It's worth what any 4-speed GTO is worth. I just noticed something weird, and I challenged the GTO forum and youtube to show me another one like it. Maybe someone will find one, but I doubt it. I think the guy that ordered this car was weird enough to order something that no one else wanted.
I hear you, but it's already been painted black, to include the door jams. He wants it blue. We'll put a cheap blue paint job on it, exterior only, jams can stay black, who cares? Cars like this don't die, when he's my age, he might want to do a no shit restoration, and fork out for some quality body work and April Gold paint. For now, I'm doing the body work and my son is helping me, and Maaco can paint it. He's only 18....he's not done crashing into stuff at that age, he doesn't need a properly restored car and a big money paint job just yet, he just needs something decent to get around town in. It should be ready for paint in a couple weeks, I'll post another video once it's blue hopefully by Christmas.
It's just a daily driver. It was my daily driver, now it's my son's daily driver. Just a bone stock 400, 4 barrel, with lots of miles on it. It's pretty tired, really, but Pontiacs run forever. I never said it was fast, but if it's running you want, here you go, fast forward to 4:33 ruclips.net/video/f50mUKiqP9Q/видео.html
At what point does the enthusiast stop breaking down the features of a vehicle? Generally after engine, transmission and exterior colour, the 'numbers' become unfathomable. Pointing out the features outside these three Pontiac record details is an exercise in going to a show and saying "I deserve more attention". If you have proof this car was a factory 'Quality Control or Press Car', that's interesting, but "1 of 1" MMMmmm no. It needs a good going over which I'm sure you'll enjoy doing it
This GTO was special ordered with a bench seat, a four-speed, air conditioning, and no other options. If you know GTOs, then you know that's an unusual way to have one made. I find it interesting. I've got 10 classic cars at the house right now, counting the three that I gave to my kids, this is the only one unusual enough to possibly be one-of-one. Not that it matters, anyone could special order anything they wanted back then, and if someone ordered something that no one else wanted/ordered, then there's your one-of-one, and it doesn't matter, because even if it is one-of-one, this GTO isn't worth any more than any other run of the mill GTO, I just think it's worth talking about, so here I am. I like talking about cars. Around 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars, because buckets were standard on GTO, of that 1%, the vast majority were column shift automatics. Sure that's still a bunch of bench seat four-speed cars like this one, you can find them online, but they are rare. A bench seat GTO is rare, and a four-speed bench seat GTO is a rarity within that rarity. Now how many bench seat GTOs with four-speeds also have A/C, but no PS or PB? How many 60s cars in general have factory A/C, but no PS or PB? Not many. It's weird, because A/C was a big money option in the sixties, and if you had money for A/C, you normally had money for PS, PB, or both. So this car is a rarity within a rarity within a rarity. The guy that ordered this GTO, isn't the typical guy ordering a musclecar in 1968, he's an oddball, and he ordered an oddball car. I don't think you could find another '68 GTO optioned like this one, in any color, let alone April Gold with Parchment interior. I would like it though, if someone sees this video, and they know of another GTO just like this one. I can't find it, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't know of one.
I have a 69 bench seat gto 4 spd with no a/c no p/s non p/b 3:55 posi factory tach and gauges project with a 69 ram air lll 400 from a 69 sj grand prix. For sale.
Very odd option list. I've never seen a '68 GTO with a bench seat and 4-speed; all were bucket seats. Plus, the A/C with no power steering and standard brakes are an odd mix. Whoever ordered the car was very particular about what they wanted or didn't want. I saw a '67 with identical options (except A/C), but this was more common in a '67 than a '68, which was more upscale with the new design.
Yup, if you paid for the GTO package, you got bucket seats as part of that. Unless you told them to put a LeMans bench in it. Like you said, he was a weird guy that ordered a weird Goat. He optioned air conditioning, the four-speed, a bench seat and nothing else. It's not what I would have ordered. Still, it's a cool car, and it's fun to drive.
You figure if you wanted a bench seat it was because three people could sit in front … but you wouldn’t be able to do that with a 4 speed. Roadrunner 4 speeds had bench seats just as a cost saving measure… maybe the original owner was just trying to replicate the bargain racer mojo , but had to have air conditioning
Yeah, sure wish I could meet the guy. I'd ask what he was thinking for sure. Like you said, Road Runner's angle was that they were cheaper than the competition, and unlike GTO, RR didn't come standard with bucket seats. You can still put three people in the front seat of this GTO, but you wouldn't want some big burly dude sitting right next to you while you're trying to shift gears. If you were in high school, you'd want the pretty girl (there was at least one in every circle of friends) sitting right next to you.
And how many '68 GTOs do you think were ordered that way? You know the definition of rare, right? You can google it: Showing results for meriam webster, define rare Definition of rare (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : seldom occurring or found : uncommon. 2a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : distinctive. b : superlative or extreme of its kind. Now from my video, and the words coming out of my mouth, and from my video's description that I typed out......it's clear that I'm not referring to definition 2a, marked by unusual quality or merit. It's also clear that I'm not talking about definition 2b, superlative or extreme of its kind. So, when I say rare, it should be obvious to anyone, that I'm using definition 1, seldom occurring or found : uncommon. So tell me Ray, how many GTOs have you seen that were ordered with a bench seat, four-speed, air conditioning......and NOTHING else? I like your '69 Firebird, very nice! Black with red stripes, can't go wrong with that. Looks fantastic!
Like 20yrs ago just before i got my 69' gto I almost scored a 69' firebird 400 ram air car! It was rockin a bench also.
Ha! That's cool. Well I think it's cool, most guys probably don't. I went to high school with a guy that drove an unrestored '65 Mustang coupe, six cylinder, three speed manual, and a bench seat. We didn't think much of it at the time. Now that I've seen thousands of '65 and '66 Mustangs over the years, turns out that not too many of them came with factory bench seats.
I have a 1 of 1 67 lemans; it was the first one built on a Sunday during 1st shift when the production line required mandatory overtime and was equipped with a 326 the 350 trans painted gulf turquoise poly... it's not for sale because I know what I have...
I had a 68 GTO that was cameo white with all black interior, bench seat, column shift 400 and 370 hp 400 open 10 bolt rear, power brakes, power steering, non a/c car , dog dish caps.. dual vanity mirrors and all interior lights ,rubber frt bumper, left side remote mirror.. and was 3 owner, sold new in my town.... traded it away... 😢
Ivory with a black interior, that's a good looking car. When did you drive it last? I gave this one to my son, he joined the Navy a year ago, it's his daily driver. We got it painted his senior year in high school, here's that video:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 69 convertible. I had never heard of a bench seat for any year of the GTO because the shift console was between the front seats. But I see there were bench seats available. I take it the car had a steering column shifter? I still have my copy of The Big "Little" GTO Book. Might still be worth checking out.
I love drop-top Goats, beautiful cars! Yup, all GTOs came standard with bucket seats, it was part of the GTO package. If you wanted to, you could special order your GTO with a bench seat. They didn't care, they just installed a LeMans bench, easy enough, it's just that very few people wanted a LeMans bench in their GTO. On the GTO forum, there's a whole discussion page for bench seat GTOs, and it's estimated that it's about 1% of them that were ordered that way. Of the 1%, most had column shift automatics, like you mentioned. This car was special ordered with air conditioning, a four-speed manual transmission, and that silly bench seat.......and nothing else. Those are three odd choices, for your special order '68 GTO. I think it makes the car both weird, and rare, I mean really, how many GTOs had just these three options, and no other options? No power steering, no power brakes, none of the normal stuff. A four-on-the-floor bench seat GTO is somewhat rare, but they are out there. A 60s car with factory AC but no PS or PB is somewhat rare, but they are out there. This car is both, it's a rarity within a rarity. Not valuable rare, just very unusual rare. And weird. Air conditioning was big money back in those days, probably a $300 option, and that's a lot of money back when power steering and power brakes were relatively affordable options. In my video, at 10:41, you can see the PHS Report for this car, showing just how it was special ordered. And in this video, you can see it once we got it painted, what color was your '69 convertible, we went with Windward Blue on this one, it's a '69 color, check it out:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
My friend in high school (1985) had a '69 GTO with A/C and a 4 speed and hideaway lights. You could option them anyway you wanted back then. A bench seat in any GTO is odd for sure.
No doubt, and this is a special order car for sure. I've got a '68 Dodge Coronet R/T that's also a special order car, but it's not very unusual, 440, 727 Torqueflite, bucket seats, and get this, they deleted the R/T bumble bee stripe (that's not cool), oh and they ordered it with a black vinyl top (I'm not a fan of that either). I think I'll restore it without the vinyl top and with the bumble bee stripe. Here's the R/T, it needs a little work:
ruclips.net/video/2AIx0NuB3y4/видео.html
I love the GTOs. But never owned one. I had a lot of the nova's and roadrunners, and still have a 67 firebird that has been garaged since the early 70s
An all original '67 Firebird? Very cool! It's like a time capsule. You should make a video about that car, and it's history, people would be interested to see that. I'd be interested to see that car!
You and your son have a very rare car and he is lucky to own and drive such a car.
Thanks! He's a good kid, he just joined the Navy, graduated boot camp last month. His car is painted now, looks pretty good, here's that video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 1968 GTO 400 4 speed on the floor with console PS/PB AiR Cond Hide away headlights and black Vinyl top that army green color...Black interior Am-FM Factory radio Painted it black...so it became/Black with Black interior/with Black Vinyl top..put the Chevelle SS wheels on it...But left the engine 100% stock...with a total rebuild....swapped it at the time for a Motion V8 Vega...
A triple black '68 GTO? 4 speed and and loaded with options like that? That's a great car! And if you leave that Pontiac 400 stock, it seems to live forever. I bought this one from an Air Force buddy, who had it since 1989, and he never rebuilt the engine, so if it was ever rebuilt, it was before 1989, which could very well be. My buddy bought it from another Air Force guy that hadn't owned it long, and he didn't know any of the car's history. It's bone stock though, I can tell that, still has the original cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds, and it runs too smooth to have even a mild cam in it. I'd like to pull a cylinder head, and check to see if it's .030" over or standard bore. Probably .030", but I'd like to check and see for sure. Too much work though, just for the sake of curiosity. It runs great so we just leave it alone, he drives it, and we fix what breaks, we put a new water pump on it last week. The odometer reads 64,000, so that's mostly like 164,000 and not 264,000, but you rarely know for sure with these old cars, my '63 Corvette has 296,000 documented miles on it, and if you just looked at it, you'd guess 196,000 for sure. The Vette's original engine lost a connecting rod bolt in 1973, with just 103,000 miles on it. I've still got that VIN stamped Corvette engine in my garage, and it's still rebuildable, it's on the to-do list. A '68 GTO with 164,000 miles on the original engine, wouldn't be breaking any records, but it's a good run for a late 60s car, if it is still standard bore. Just having the original VIN stamped engine in that GTO is nice, neither of my B body Mopars can say that, because a lot can happen in 50+ years. My wife's 2003 Ford Escape has 365,000 miles on the original engine though....and none of my old cars can compete with that. Yeah, some people don't like that this car was painted black, but not everyone is a fan of certain shades of green like your old '68 was originally, or that shade of gold that was popular in the 60s, or greenish-gold like this one was originally painted. My son wanted to paint it blue, and he paid for everything, and helped with the prep work, so blue it is. And I like it, here's what it looks like now:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had a 69 Nova that I sold to buy a 68 GTO. Had a good time that summer with it took my first boyfriend out of state he was underage to the beach in Maine. We had a ball. I let him drive the car back he enjoyed it so much we were both Gearheads! By October I traded the 68 GTO for a 70 Camaro. I should never have gotten rid of that car the GTO or the Camaro. Who knew?!
Well there's a lot to unpack there Dexter. I want to say, "That's awesome!", but when was this, and how old were you? And how old was your underage boyfriend? Just kidding, none of my business. I'm a fan of those '70 Camaros with the split front bumper, and '69 Novas are big money right now. My preference is mid-sized cars though, I like the old Goats a lot.
That is An Asewsome GTO. The guy also got muscles steering and braking that goat. All hail the great one
Had two.
No doubt, it's seriously one of the best cars ever built. And we got it painted:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
My brother Owned a 68 RamAirII Mayfair Maze, Black Vinyl Top, Black interior, Hideaway headlights, Hurst Dule Gate shifter. Come with optional Positrack 410re I believe !! That thing had to be very rare GTO Just for the options alone. Sadly it met its end against a Sycamore Tree !! I could just imagine what that thing would be worth today. I think he bought it in 1979 !! Drove it almost daily for 5/6yrs
Your brother had a great car, rare for sure. Those are the options that I'd want on a '68 GTO, and a hood tach, I'd want that too. I love the hide-away headlight cars, but I'm kind of glad this one doesn't have it, seems like a pain when they don't work right. And I've run 4.11 gears before, Detroit Locker in pretty much all of the old Mustangs I've owned......4.11s are a lot of fun.....for a while, and then it gets to be a bit much when you don't have overdrive. :) Mayfair Maize is a nice color, I like it.
@@owenrobertson Pretty sure it was a Org 242 car No hood tach tho. I know the later Duel Gates like late yr 68s and in 69 Pontiac was producing their own. Marc's Had HURST Engraved into the shifter. Maybe a Hurst badge on the glove box. Been long time ago lmao. Him and his buddy did a little magic and had it mid 400s Rwhp. Stock was 365 I think. Paired with the 410 posi,That thing was very quick stop light to stop light. Watched him beat up on a few 454 Chevy cars. And a few 440/383 cars as well . His best friend Had a 69 Hemi Cuda that was Stupid fast and Dangerous!! 500+ rwhp. And that was a shit ton in the late 70s early 80s !! Hell.. if we could get 400hp out of our pos 30 over 350s, we thought we were kings !! Hahaha
I really can't complain too much, My 1st car was a 1971 Ford Maverick Grabber. 302, Baby Blue, Black strips, with dule hood scoops !! Awesome little car !! Traded it for a 1978 Plymouth Trail Duster !! Hahaha
@@mocarpenter8836, those old Trail Dusters are cool. Did you have the top off it? I've got a '75 Bronco that didn't have a top when I bought it. I've owned it for over 20 years, never had a top for it. Yeah, your brother had that GTO in 1979, I bet there weren't a lot of well done clones back then, so if it absolutely looked like a '68 GTO in 1979, it was most likely a real 242 car. You're right about horsepower back in the 70s and 80s, if you had 400 at the rear wheels, that was a lot. When I was a senior in high school in 1988, it didn't take much to make my '65 Mustang quicker than any brand new 1988 Mustang, Camaro, or Corvette, those were all mid-15 second quarter mile cars in stock trim, and it's always been pretty easy to get an old street car to run 13s, especially a light car like your Maverick, or my Mustang. New cars now are crazy fast, my buddy just upgraded from an all wheel drive Evo to an all wheel drive AMG Mercedes. And that's the other thing, even if you've got 800hp in your old muscle car, good luck from stop light to stop light against an all wheel drive car. Just for fun, I put a mild .060" over 460 in a '69 Mustang that I used to own, it was fun alright, and it ran an 11.99 1/4 mile at Darlington, but on the street it was worthless. It needed a sticky track and slicks, so on the street from stop light to stop light, it was useless, it just lit up the tires. Doesn't matter, I'm old now, I just like to cruise, I was driving around town in my daughter's '55 Pontiac today, great car, super slow, but fun to put around town in. I just love old cars, Mopar, Pontiac, Chevy, Ford, I even bought a Studebaker, but I haven't got it running yet.
Well I knew I liked ya !! Hahaha I'm a 1985 Graduate. My brother was a 82 Graduate. I'll be 55 the 21st of this month. Married to my Wonderful, Beautiful wife 35 yrs, 5 kids, 3 Grandkids. 2 mortgages lmao !! My oldest son is 36, and my youngest daughter is 13. My Granddaughter is also 13 😒😒 😂😂 I drove that Trail Duster for 3/4 yrs daily!! 360 2 Barrel... mmmm maybe 318 🤔 We took the top off Every Summer!! I could do it myself if need be. But 2 dude's have that thing off in 3mins!! It was actually a nice Trail Duster Sport. It was Copper colored with an Off White 4x4 Double stripe down each side and a smaller of the same decal on the tailgate. Nothing to big under it, 31x10x50s. It was a ton of fun @ the river. We are from Morgantown WV if you know where that is. Home of The WVU Mountaineers !! Oh BTW Marc's was the 2nd owner of her. Bought it off the Org owner. He bought it new. Straight out of the service in 68, drove it 5/6yrs, then put it away in his family's Garage and it sat under roof for 7or 8 yrs when Marc Bought it. Come to think it may have been 80 or close to 81 when he bought it !! To dang long ago haha.
In 85' I owned a 66' Fairlane 289 2dr my first car at 16
Nice! I like the 60s mid-size cars.
Pontiac built almost 88K GTO’s in 1968. It’s hard to call ANYTHING that is mass produced in large numbers by GM rare. But maybe this guy is on to something. 🤔🤔🤔
Maybe. It's up for discussion. No one can say for sure, but I think I make a pretty good argument. I'm no GTO expert, but the guys on the GTO forum claim that only 1% of GTOs came with bench seats, since bucket seats were standard on GTO. None of the GTO experts on the forum seem to dispute that 1% claim, even though I'm sure it's just an educated guess. So now that 88k quickly narrows down to just 880 GTOs with bench seats (ballpark). Of those 880 bench seat '68 GTOs, way more than half have column shift automatic transmissions, because if you're going out of you way to order a bench seat in a GTO, you might not be the three-speed or four-speed type in the first place. So I think it's safe to say that most were automatic cars, and obviously some had to have been three-speed cars. That leaves us with maybe 200 bench seat four-speed '68 GTOs, or 300, or maybe even 400, but it would be hard to argue that there were more than 400 made, unless you can disprove the 1% idea. PHS has all the raw data that would answer this question, they have every '68 GTO's VIN and option list on microfiche. Without my PHS report, I'd never have known that this car never had power steering on it, because there's no code for that on the cowl tag, and I've never found a build sheet for any of the cars I've owned. Unfortunately, that microfiche won't last forever, and so far PHS has never put it all into a searchable database. Maybe someday, someone will buy all that microfiche and load it all it into an internet database, where it can be preserved forever. Without that searchable database, it's all just talk, but I think it's fun......so let's call it 400 bench seat four-speed GTOs for the sake of this argument. How many were April Gold, with a Parchment interior? Some of them for sure, although it's not the most popular color combination. Now how many had air conditioning as the only other option? This is where it gets tricky, because it's something people never think about. I've been into 60s cars since I was 15. How many 60s cars have any of us seen that had factory A/C, but no power steering or power brakes? Some of them for sure, but not many right? It's a small percentage overall. You don't ever think about it, but when you do, when you think of all the 60s cars that you or your friends have owned, or the cars you've seen at shows, or on the internet, how many had just factory A/C and nothing else? A/C was a big money option, like $300 I think. Most people that had the money for A/C, had the money for way more affordable options like PS or PB, or both. And I don't think the factory built many A/C only cars, hoping it's what the general public would want, but again my son's GTO was special ordered, so what the factory would build on their own doesn't even matter. One guy on the GTO forum told me, " So what? Anyone could special order anything they wanted back then, so anyone could order a one-of-one car." He didn't like my video, and he was disagreeing with me, but he made my point. I think that sums it up, because whoever ordered this GTO, picked three things that most people wouldn't pick. Bench seat, four-speed, A/C, and nothing else. Looking at what you could order for a '68 GTO, those aren't the three things I would have picked. It's just a weird car, that's all.
whoever bought this at the dealership was just checking off options at random
Yeah, but he only checked off three options......and that's if you count the bench seat as an "option" and not as a "downgrade". He wanted the bench seat instead of the standard GTO bucket seats, he wanted the four-speed instead of the standard three-speed manual transmission, and he wanted air conditioning. He was happy enough with the standard GTO engine, the four-barrel 400 with 350hp. And he was fine with the standard gears, 3.23 : 1 open (the standard gear ratio for A/C equipped GTOs). Weird right? That's a very unusual way to option out a GTO. A/C was as expensive option back then, probably over 250 bucks. I can just see the Pontiac salesman trying to sell him on PS and PB as well, which were most likely 30 or 40 dollar options, but he didn't want any of that. In my opinion, there's only one way that Pontiac built another '68 GTO just like this one, and that's if this weirdo had a twin brother that ordered the exact same car.
Hey nice car . How about the stainless trim around the brake , gas and clutch pedals. Don't they come with p brakes , steering?
Thanks! We got it painted, came out pretty decent, check it out: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
That's a good question on the pedal trim, because this '68 GTO for sure has it, and not just on the gas, brake, and clutch.....has the trim on the emergency brake pedal as well. I checked my PHS report, and if you fast forward to 10:57, where air conditioning is highlighted on my PHS, 9 rows up from that, it lists "custom pedal trim plates", but it's not highlighted, as a selected option. So either someone installed those at some point, since 1968, or they were part of the '68 GTO's decor package. I did a google search and found this discussion:
www.gtoforum.com/threads/what-determines-if-pedals-had-trim-67.136075/
People seem to agree that for a '67 GTO, that pedal trim is only there if you ordered power brakes, like you said. That seems to have changed by 1968, when it became part of the GTO's decor package, according to original owners of non-power '68 GTOs in that discussion thread. It's discussed here as well: forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?817130&p=5871263#post5871263
That's a good observation you made, one that's sparked conversation in the past, among GTO owners, and to be honest, I never even paid any attention to that pedal trim. So I learned something new today. Thanks!
I would have to agree that the options package whoever ordered it is very rare. I would also, like yourself, it probably doesn't add to the value.....don't think it would hurt the value either
Yup, it's weird car, just something to talk about. When I bought it, all I saw was a '68 GTO with a four-speed. Months went by before I figured out that there was something even a little bit odd about it. Mostly I just like old cars....and four-speeds....and this one is fun to drive. My son likes it. He drives it every day to school and work, I haven't driven it since we made the follow-up video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Wow this is rare indeed !!
Finally, someone that knows what rare means. It just means seldom occurring or found. I've upset a lot of people with this video, because they think rare means special. And I never said special, or valuable, or even desirable. I knew what I was doing though, I know the hobby, and when you make the 1-of-1 claim, it gets people all riled up. I'm just here having fun though. I just like old cars. It's a fun hobby. And getting people all riled up can be fun as well. :)
@@owenrobertson I myself am a classic/ muscle car enthusiast. I was raised by 2 woman who raced cars my mom who raced nothing but GTO's and my grandmom who raced nothing but chryslers. So I pride myself in knowing a thing or 2 when it comes to classic/ muscle cars , that being said I think everyone knows exactly what you were referring to but like that saying goes " opinions are like A holes, everyone has 1 🤣 but to say a yellow gold bench seat 4spd Goat isn't rare is just ignorance. I've never seen 1. And I seriously doubt anyone who put in their 2 cents have either. Just laugh at the upset meat heads who think they sit on a throne with their " opinions" because that's all they are. And it twists their panties 🤣🤣😋
That's awesome! Your mom and your grandma! Awesome! Yeah, this GTO is April Gold and the options are A/C, four-speed, bench seat....and nothing else. And that's if you can call the LeMans bench an option, if anything it's a special order "downgrade", since the GTO package included bucket seats standard, at no additional cost. How many GTOs have a bench seat and a four speed? Not many, way less than 1% of them. Now how many GTOs have A/C, but no PS or PB? Not many of those either, you don't see it much at all, in any 60's car. Weird right? The guy that special ordered this car was weird. He didn't order up the kind of muscle car that most people back then wanted. Most guys wanted a stripped down car, with just the four speed and best engine, or they wanted something fully loaded, to impress their neighbors....or something in between. This car isn't any of that, it's out in left field somewhere. Still, there's always hope, more people have seen this video than any of my other videos, and maybe someone who sees this video will know of a car just like mine. I'd get a kick out of that too. We're in agreement. It's a fun hobby!
@@owenrobertson please post a vid of her with the new color. Don't need to be all trimmed out whatsoever !! I got my niece a 01 Mustang that smacked a couple guard rails for cheap , lol but I did the body work and did the Maaco $299 paint special and that sumbich came out like a new penny !! Haha some orange peel but hey for the money it was amazing !! And still after 6 yrs it still looked good. Listen we all had our ideas of what we wanted our machines to look like at that age. Time and life will play its part 1 day and I hope he keeps it , even if it's sitting in the garage door down the road that he can carry on"tradition" with his boy 😉 much respect to you and your family. Please do a walk around on the old girl !!
Just find me on facebook, recent pics of the blue GTO there. Not too many guys named Owen Robertson on facebook. I'm the one that looks like Gru wetsanding a '68 GTO, in my facebook profile photo.
I just remembered a friend of mine had one like yours, except it had a black interior. But it did have a 4 speed and the bench seat
Yeah, over on the GTO forum, there's a whole section for just bench seat GTOs, and some of them have four-speeds no doubt. Rare GTOs but they exist for sure. What makes this car interesting, in my opinion, is that it was special ordered with only three options, the bench seat, the four-speed, and the air conditioning, and nothing else. Everything else on this car, when it was ordered, is standard GTO equipment. And bench seat isn't even on the GTO options list, so this guy really only picked two options from the list, four-speed and A/C....then he asked them for a LeMans bench seat downgrade. It's just a weird set of choices. No PS, no PB, just those three things. I think if it's late 1967 and you're ordering a '68 GTO, and you only get three choices to create a one-of-one car that no one else wants, then those are three very solid choices. I don't think many people wanted those three things and nothing else on a GTO. Another good set of three for a '68 GTO would be the LeMans chrome front bumper, the LeMans bench seat, and air conditioning. At some point, you have to wonder, why not just save a whole bunch of money and buy a '68 LeMans rather than the GTO, because if I was ordering a '68 GTO, and I was looking at the available options list, and I could only have three options, I'd take the 360hp 400 with ram air, the four-speed, and the performance rear axle (3.55 posi, 3.90 posi, something like that). I've run 4.11s in cars before, too steep for me, it gets old. I like the 3.73s in my Corvette, those work great with that car's close-ratio Muncie. I don't see 3.73s as an option in my PHS report, though, just 3.55, 3.90, and 4.33, so I'd probably be fine with 3.55 posi. My son's GTO came with 3.23 open gears, which was standard on GTO if you ordered the air conditioning. Good engine, good trans, good gears....and that's all I'd need. If I didn't care about those three things, I'd probably just buy the LeMans. It's like the '70 Mach 1 I used to own, it had the 4V 351C, automatic transmission, A/C, PS, and PB, and 3.00 : 1 open gears in the 9" rear, it's an expensive options list, and it's not how I would have ordered it. A/C was a big money option back then, around $300 I think. The automatic transmission was expensive was well, over $200. I'd get that car with the 428SCJ, shaker hood scoop, four-speed, and a respectable third member. You really don't need air conditioning, power brakes, or power steering, that's just more stuff to break, more stuff to worry about. Just roll the windows down if it's hot. Cold air induction for the engine is nice to have though. Of course, I've never been a big fan of brand new cars, so even if I did have a time machine to 1967, once there, maybe I wouldn't order a new '68 GTO. I'd probably shop for Harrison Ford's '55 Chevy from American Graffiti, or one like it. I just like old cars. :)
If your counting the 60s cars with no ps or pb. I have a 66 chevelle 300 deluxe that is a 2 dr sedan delete ps,pb car with ac. 327 auto. It's black with the blood red interior. I will get it rolling soon as I get a chance.
Love that body style Chevelle! Black with red interior, great car! Is there a link to some pics, I'd love to see it. My son's GTO just got painted, I'll have a new video up, as soon as we put the trim back on. Yeah, it would be fun to get a count of us oddball guys with factory A/C cars that don't have PS or PB. It's not something that you can google search, it's just something that I've noticed is a rarity in probably any car, but 60s cars for sure. It would be funny if some AMC guy showed up right now, to let us know that A/C only was very common in the Rambler. It's something you don't think about though, until you buy a car with A/C and no PS or PB. When I bought this GTO, I figured that it was an A/C and PS car, and that someone had converted it to manual steering, tired of power steering fluid leaks or something. Someone removed the A/C compressor for some reason at some point in time, you never know with these old cars, over so many decades, anything can happen.
Nice goat.I had a friend who bought a new verdoro green 68 with a black bench seat interior and 360hp 4 speed. When I got back from the army the goat was gone and had been replaced by a grabber blue Boss 429 Mustang. Your car with a/c on a 4-speed w/o ps or pb is an unusual combination. I agree with you, most of the GTOs with factory a/c and bench seat (which was kind of rare) were usually automatics. I had a bucket seat verdoro green 68 4 speed car. I still regret selling it in 1975. Your car might be a one of one.
Thanks for sharing stories like that, young guys like me can't even answer the American Graffiti question, "Where were you in '62?", because we were born in or around 1970. Well I was born in '70. I think I'm part of the American Graffiti wanna be generation. I've heard some interesting Boss '9 stories from guys that were in the position to buy a new car back then. I've heard of insane dealer markups, because that dealership only had one of them and it was on the showroom floor bringing in traffic, and they had no intention of selling it. Then when the '71 Mustangs came out, I've heard of left over 1970 Boss 429s being practically given away.
I had a 67 SS Chevelle ps tilt wheel auto on the column bench seat car.
You should have kept that one, '67 Chevelle is a great looking car!
@@owenrobertson sold it in 2001 and have regreted it ever since.
My dad had a 62 Impala SS bucket seat no console 3 on the tree.
Yeah, I'd drive that, cool car!
I always thought it was harvest gold? Never heard April good before.
Yeah, I only know about April Gold because I bought an April Gold car. I don't normally pay much attention to vintage car colors, unless they are really stand out colors that grab me, like Orbit Orange, or B5 Blue in the Mopar world, I like all the "high impact" Mopar colors too, but B5 Blue has always been a favorite of mine. I like the blue that they put on midyear Corvettes as well, Nassau Blue. I googled Harvest Gold, and found a 1970 Buick in that color, so I googled 1970 Buick paint codes, and Harvest Gold is one of them. I'm not sure what other years it was used, or what Pontiac would have called that shade of gold. I recognize it though, I've seen it on a bunch of GM cars. Harvest Gold and April Gold are completely different, though. April Gold is a greenish-gold color, it's nice enough, looks like this:
cwrestorations.com/1968-gto-april-gold/
GM built Smog motors after 1967...The earlier ones had hotter cams ,higher compression and instead of the Rochester Quadra-Jet you could 3 ,2 barrels.
Very true, but I've got three 2-barrels on my V code Road Runner, and it's 100% pain in the ass, and 0% performance enhancing, I'd be better off with a single Holley. If three 2-barrels was good for power, and not just a gimmick, you'd see a lot more of it at the drag strip, because those guys like making big power. Like you said though, the early days of high compression and big solid cams were great for making power, my Vette's L76 came stock with 11.25 : 1 compression, solid lifter cam, factory aluminum intake, and a single four barrel. You can make decent horsepower that way, and it came stock with the close ratio Muncie four-speed and 4.11 posi, so from stoplight to stoplight, when it was new in '63, it would have been hard to beat, because it didn't weigh much either. You had the hot rods back in '63, like the '32 Ford and '55 Chevy in American Graffiti, they'd take it, but there weren't many new for '63 cars that would have taken my Vette back when it was brand new. No GTO yet, no 426 hemi yet, sure you had the 406 Galaxie that became the 427 Galaxie in '63 1/2, and you had the 409 Impala, both great cars, but full-sized cars, and too heavy. You had the Cobra, but when my Vette hit the streets in May of 1963, there were only 100 of those ever sold, 75 with the 260 V8, and 25 of them with the 289 (according to Wikipedia, and I don't doubt it, I toured the Shelby museum in Vegas, and that sounds about right), no 427 Cobra yet, that's for sure. Of course Mopar had the 413 Max Wedge in '62, replaced by the 426 Max Wedge in '63, not a hemi, but absolutely built for the quarter mile, either of those engines with 11 : 1 compression would have been more than a match for my Vette's 327, but Mopar also offered 13.5 : 1 compression in those Max Wedge engines......Mopar didn't mess around, they were selling factory high 11, low 12 second cars in 1963. And then of course, from '64 to '71, there would be a lot more competition on the road, but back in '63, I think that's the race, and of course the Beach Boys wrote a song about it, "Shut Down":
ruclips.net/video/thXjTd1AWNo/видео.html
And on the topic of sixties music, and the great GTOs made before 1968 that you mentioned, Ronny and The Daytonas sang, "Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine Three deuces and a four-speed and a 389". Fun song. I used the Beach Boy's cover of that song in the video where my son's GTO gets painted:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine, a single quad and a four-speed and a 400....well yeah, doesn't have the same ring to it, but it's still a great car, and it goes down the road just fine.
That '68 GTO is advertised at 10.7 : 1 compression, and it runs fine on 87 octane, so I think Pontiac fudged that number a bit, just like my '70 Mach 1's 4V Cleveland was advertised at 11 : 1 compression, Mustang guys know what it wasn't a true 11 : 1, closer to 10.7 I think, and a bunch of us had our heads shaved a bit to make it a true 11 : 1, and I could not run 87 octane in that Mach 1 with 11 : 1 compression, it needed 91 octane or better. So the GTO is a daily driver and goes fine on 87 octane, and my Vette's original VIN stamped 11.25 : 1, 340hp engine is sitting on the floor of my garage, and my Vette currently has a 300hp Corvette 327 that the original owner installed in 1973 after the original L76 lost a rod bolt on 20 Feb 73, back when that car only had 103,100 miles on it. The light bulb that burns bright, burns out at 103k, I guess. So with the lower compression, hyd cam, 300hp 327, that car runs fine on 87 octane as well. Even the Road Runner is good on 87 octane, and all of that is fine, because these cars are daily drivers, and back before I sold the Mach 1, that car was also a daily driver, and it was killing me at the gas pump. As for performance, well when I was driving my '65 Mustang back in the 80s, I totally wanted that, I was working at an automotive machine shop, doing all the head work, and I port and polished my Mustang's 289 heads and installed oversized SBC stainless valves, guide plates, roller rockers....I put TRW forged flat tops in it, a solid Sig Erson cam, Edelbrock intake, Holley four-barrel, Hooker headers, Comp 9000 Mallory distributor, manual valve body B&M C6, and 4.11 Detroit Locker in the 8" rear end. I was shopping way too much at Super Shops in Fresno, CA and that car was night and day from when I bought it. From stoplight to stoplight, that little 289 '65 Mustang would really move, and it was a lot of fun. No dragstrips near where I lived, so we raced out on the country roads, and I didn't know exactly how quick it was, but the new Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes were no match for it. They were all running what? Mid to high 15s back in the late 80s? Knowing what I know now, from when I was stationed in Utah and Las Vegas, and drag racing my 351C '70 Mach 1, which started out running high 15s in Utah at 4,200 feet elevation, and then after getting the exact same sort of treatment that my '65 got, ended up running high 13s in Utah, low 13s in Vegas, and a high 12 at sea level at Sacramento Raceway......I figure my lighter '65 Mustang with it's smaller 289 was probably a mid to high 13 second car at sea level. That's slow these days of course, but back in the 80s, that was fairly quick for a run of the mill daily driver owned by a teenager. Now, you can see from my youtube videos, that I'm still living in the past, I've got a massive 8 track collection, and they all play, its mostly what I listen to, and I've got 10 classic cars, counting the three that really aren't mine anymore, because I gave them to my kids. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and I never will, what I've got gets me around just fine, but I have no desire to hot rod any of them. My Vette, my Road Runner, my '65 fastback, my son's '68 GTO, they are all slow, and they can all stay that way, because I may be living in the past, but I see what's on the road these days, and I'm not trying to race any of them. Car makers have come a long way from 1988 when the "fast" Mustangs and Camaros were running 15s. Today, you can't even race a diesel pickup truck, because that guy might be running 30 pounds of boost, it's crazy. Not to mention all of the all-wheel-drive cars with factory turbo. Add some additional boost to that factory boost, and what sixties muscle car is going to compete from stoplight to stoplight? Those guys don't need to worry about traction, and if there's one thing I learned from putting 472 cubic inches under the hood of a '69 Mustang fastback, is that traction is the first thing to go, it's just silly, even with 18" wide tires and 3.50 Detroit Locker, that car spins those tires like crazy, you don't go anywhere. The only place that car gets traction is at the dragstrip, on a sticky track, and even then, only with slicks, and the best it's ever ran is a very high 11, so what's the point? Back in my day, if you wanted to change your valve timing, you bought a trick Milodon double-roller timing chain, with multiple advance and retard keyway grooves, and if you advanced it 2 degrees, you were stuck with that. If you wanted to trick out your spark timing, you might disconnect your vacuum advance, and buy an assortment of color-coded centrifugal advance springs, but in the end, you set your total timing with a timing light, locked down your distributor, and that's where it stayed. You got the total timing you wanted for full-throttle performance, and hopefully your initial spark timing was still something you could live with. For fuel, we just dumped enough in, so that we weren't running lean, better to be a little rich, than a little lean. These days, computers control all of that, valve timing, spark timing, fuel, and more. It's all variable, it's hard to compete with that alone, but then they add boost, and now they're making seven or eight hundred horsepower, it's pretty impressive. Turbo technology has come a long way since the 80s. I raced a kid in '88, he snuck out his dad's brand new Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. Smoked him with my low tech '65 Mustang, he wanted to try again, and this time he blew the turbo. What good is a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, if you can't floor the thing on a brand new car, without blowing up the turbo? My buddy's mom had an 80-something Dodge turbo K car, and he blew the turbo on that one. Not these days, these days, guys are running insane amounts of boost, and it seems to be holding together. Not for me though, I like old cars, new cars can never look this good, not if they want to meet safety standards, and pass impact testing. Mostly old cars are just easy to work on. Sure they break, but when they do break, it's a lot more fun than working on my wife's 2003 Ford Escape. I was shocked when I figured out how much work it was for me to replace the alternator on her car:
ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html
I'll stick to what I know best. I like the way old cars look, I like the way they drive and how you can feel the road, I like a Hurst four-speed shifter in my hand, I like how I can fix them cheap and easy, and mostly I like talking about them. I like meeting guys in town that also love old cars, and I like hearing their stories. I meet more car guys in Dollar General parking lots than I do at car shows, because when I'm driving to Dollar General, or anywhere else in town, I'm driving an old car. :)
Oh and I hope it turns it back to original color , besides it will be worth a whole lot more original
Maybe someday, but not just yet. My son is 18, and he didn't want a greenish-gold color. I get it, it's an old man's color. This car was built to last though. If he still has this GTO in 30 or 40 years, maybe he'll want to paint it back to it's original April Gold. After we finished all the body work, we took it to Maaco, and they painted it dark blue. It's pretty close to Windward Blue, a fairly common '69 GTO color. It looks pretty good for a driver, and there's no point putting a crazy expensive show quality paint job on a teenager's car. We were all teenagers once, and we know how that might end up. My next video will show some of the body work we did, and it'll show the painted car. It'll be up on youtube after we put the mirrors, grille, emblems, antenna, trim, etc....back on. He's going to school full time, and working a lot on top of that, but hopefully we get it back together soon. Right now it's just sitting in one of my garages.
Everyone says “I used to have”. Well I can say I do have a 65 GTO 389 four speed #’s matching triple black original paint 33k original miles! Garaged kept! What do you guys think the price is around? Thank you
Your '65 GTO is a big money car, no doubt, but more importantly it's a truly great car. I'm not in this hobby for the money. I wasn't in it for the money in 1985, and not now either. I've talked to lots of guys that got "big money" for their 60s car that they sold in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, or last year. They all regret selling what they had, eventually they regret it, especially if all they got was money, and they never bought another classic car. Money isn't as fun as old cars, and it doesn't last as long. I can hold onto an old car for decades, but put money in my pocket and it's gone in no time. I'm not a "used to have" kind of guy either. If I sell a car, it's only because I've got another car already lined up. Sold my '70 Mach 1 because there was a '55 Pontiac I wanted, sold my '67 Sunbeam Alpine because there was a '61 Studebaker Hawk I wanted, sold my '69 Mustang because there was a '68 Coronet R/T I wanted. My tastes have changed over the years, but the bottom line is the same, I just love old cars and I love working on them. I'll die some day, and my wife or my kids will have to sell whatever old cars are still at my house. That's how I got my '63 Corvette, the original owner died, the wife left the car in the garage, 20 years later the wife died, and their kids sold everything on estate auction, the house, the cars, everything. When that happens, there's always someone willing to pay big money for a '63 Corvette, until all the '63 Corvette fans die off as well. Kids today don't know what a split window coupe is, and they don' t care. 30 years from now, those kids aren't going to be at Mecum or Barrett Jackson fighting each other for an 89 year old Corvette. They might get into a bidding war over a Dodge Hellcat, or some other car that reminds them of their youth, but some old 60s car, that's almost 100 years old, by the time they've got fat 401k's.....I'm not seeing it. I don't think they'll want it. It's all about supply and demand, supply stays the same, my Vette is safely tucked away in my garage, your GTO is safely tucked away in your garage, the supply of cars is safe, but the demand won't live forever. I'm 52, and most car guys I know are my age or older, some are old enough to remember the American Graffiti days of the hobby. I'm too young to remember 1962. I call my generation the American Graffiti wanna-bes. The generation after my generation, well the vast majority of those guys haven't even seen American Graffiti, and they just don't care. Some of the them care, but not many. You'll meet young guys at car shows, that enjoy looking at shiny vintage cars, but it's one thing to admire something, it's another thing to invest in the hobby, as you know, it takes a certain level of commitment, and it's not cheap. I've tried talking lots of guys into buying an entry level 60s car, something cheap to work on and fix up, I've offered to help them work on it.......no takers, people aren't interested, it's like when people see that I have four acres of land, and they tell me that I need to buy horses. Fuck that, I'm not buying horses, that looks like way too much work. I figure that's how kids today see old cars, a lot of them anyway. It's too bad, I'd love to see more classic cars on the road. I think a lot of kids today seem to be okay with never owning a car, new or old, they'll take the bus, and call for an Uber when the bus isn't good enough. They won't pay for gas, or registration, or insurance, or repairs, and to be honest, they'll save a ton of money, but they're missing out, it's still a great hobby, especially if you like turning wrenches and meeting new people. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and when you drive around town in any old car, and you'll meet someone new in at least half the parking lots you stop in. Like you said, most are guys that want to tell you about the cars they used to have, but that's okay, those guys have great stories to tell. It's just a fun hobby. And unlike most hobbies, it's a hobby you can take with you just about everywhere, even while doing boring stuff, like running errands around town. Do you have photos of your '65 GTO anywhere? If so, drop a link, or find me on facebook, I'd love to see it. Here's a link to my son's '68 GTO, after we got it painted:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I had to come back.my parents had a 76 nova 6cyl three on the tree.
I bought this GTO from an old Air Force buddy, when I first met him, we were in our early 20's, and both stationed in England. I had a '65 Mustang coupe, a '70 Mach 1, and a '66 Bronco at my mom's place in California, and he had this '68 GTO, a '70 'Cuda, and a '76 Nova stashed away with his family in Illinois. You don't see a lot of 4th gen Novas these days. Come to think of it, you didn't see a lot of them 30 years ago, either. It's cool that you know how a column shift manual works, most people don't. They say they do, then you find out that they don't. I think they used to know, then they forgot, because who really needs to know that now. Kind of like 8 tracks, I've had guys at car shows look at my 8 track player and tapes, and start telling me or their kid how it works, and they are way wrong, saying things like pull it out and flip it over. And these are guys that are older than me, so they used to know, and then it became irrelevant, and they just forgot. I'd explain it to them, but like I said, it's irrelevant technology, so why bother. I think some of these guys are mixing up 8 tracks and cassette tapes, that would explain that one guy that said flip it over to play tracks 3 and 4, memories are funny that way. Fun hobby though, I've restored close to 300 8 tracks, and it's a cheap hobby too, something to work on when I don't have money for car parts. I didn't know they were still putting three-on-the-tree in '76 Novas, the earliest car I ever came across with a five-speed was a Honda Civic, a '75 or '76 I think. One of my teachers was driving it in the early 80s, if I'm remembering correctly. We were well into the 80s before I started seeing five-speeds in American cars, 1983 for Mustang. And transmissions have come a long way since those days. That's okay, I'm still happy with a Muncie four-speed. I don't know much about new cars.....I just know what I like, and I like the old cars.
@@owenrobertson I've drove a three on a tree forklift before. Yeah people just don't know nowadays they've had square body Chevy trucks with three on the trees up until the 80s. The thing that they tracks is they just flip to the next track which is unique but which is probably what made him wear out over time. They just didn't keep playing through the whole song sometimes it would start out on one and then skip to the next set and then pick right up at the word left off at.
Probably somebody that ordered that car wanted a GTO with the four-speed but I bet had a family and they had that bench seat for a reason but managed to get their four-speed in GTO too
@@buckster2575, yeah, I worked at a Shell bulk oil yard when I was 17, that was 1987, and they gave me a flatbed Chevy with a hyd tommy lift to haul 55 gallon drums of oil around to all the farmers, wineries, etc. I don't know what year it was, 1980-something, and it had three-on-the-tree. They asked if I knew how to drive it when I applied for the job. That was when you went to your high school, told them you needed a job, and they sent you out to a business that needed you. It was easy for a kid to get a job back then. I told them that I could drive it, but I didn't know. I knew how to drive stick, but I should have at least asked them where 1st gear was. So they showed me how to move the drums around, they weighed over 400 pounds each, and how the lift worked, and how to strap them to the front of the bed.....then my boss gave me a map, and said take them here. Pretty cool that they trusted a 17 year old kid with all of that. So I got in, found first gear, putted out the yard, and learned to drive the thing as soon as I was down the road, and out of sight of my boss. Good times, it was a fun job when we were busy, when we weren't busy, I was supposed to "look busy", so I'd be out there just sweeping and sweeping again....I didn't like that part. They sold gas in that yard as well, and we had Shell leaded gas there, well after everyone else in town had stopped selling it, so that was good for my '65 Mustang.
@@buckster2575, I think you're right, big family, and you can seat six or seven with that bench seat, if you kids are small enough. Eight or nine if you stack them up in the back. Six is easy though, I've done that with my bench seat four-speed Road Runner. It's just odd that he didn't go with the LeMans and save some money. Speaking of money, I think that Muncie four-speed was about a $200 option, that's big money in the late sixties, when he could have gotten the floor-shift three-speed manual for free. I was thinking that the factory A/C this car has was about $250 back then, but I just found a Hemmings article that says A/C was $375 in a 1969 GTO. And that's a small fortune. I guess after those two options, he was done spending money, so he passed on the $105 power steering and the $65 power brakes. Here's that Hemmings article, and one very nice '69 convertible:
www.hemmings.com/stories/2018/05/28/high-option-adoption-1969-pontiac-gto
That's badass 😎 it's nice for the middle Seat but you can still have fun with the gears
Thanks! It's a fun car. Drives real nice, and we just got it painted:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
In today's time these are some rare car's even thou it was like 90k of them made but im sure its less than 10k or 20k that's actually still driving around. The Bench seat's could have been swapped in. Ive never seen this kinda Gto with a bench seat
Bucket seats were standard on GTO, but you could special order a LeMans bench seat in a GTO, from the factory, if you really wanted one. The bench seat is factory original in this GTO. Fast forward to 10:41 in the video, it's the original Billing slip from 1967....printed out from microfiche by Pontiac Historical Services. I ordered the PHS report for this car, and the report decodes the billing slip. At 10:53 the PHS shows this GTO came with the parchment bench seat interior, but I already knew that, because that code is also on the car's cowl tag, seen decoded in this video at 1:37, here's the link:
ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
This '68 GTO came from the factory with only three options, the four-speed, the bench seat, and air conditioning......and that's it, someone dropped over $300 in late 1967 for A/C, but they didn't want power steering or power brakes, which were much more affordable options. It's rare to see a 60s car with factory A/C, but no PS, PB....or both. It's rare to see a GTO with a bench seat, but about 1% of GTOs were ordered with the bench seat, and there's a whole section in the GTO forum for the bench seat GTOs. It's also rare to see a '68 GTO with a bench seat and four on the floor, because most guys that wanted a bench seat muscle car, were just fine with a column shift automatic. I'd argue that it's extremely rare to see a '68 GTO, ordered exactly like this one was ordered. No big deal, just weird, the rare GTO that you want is the one with ram air, a four-speed, and a top that goes down. This '68 GTO is a fun car though, and the guy that ordered it in 1967 was marching to a different beat, those aren't the three options I would have picked. I don't know anyone that would option out a '68 GTO like this one. Mostly it's just a fun car. My son and I have had a lot of fun working on it. We got the body work done, and painted it. It was originally April Gold, and then it was painted black in the 80s. My son wanted blue, so it's Windward Blue now, a '69 GTO color. This car is 54 years old, and shouldn't have any issues surviving the next 54 years. It's a solid car, and my son has no plans to sell it. Maybe someday he'll want to paint it the original color, and maybe even get all the A/C stuff back under the hood, but that would be a big job. A Vintage Air underhood kit would be easier. Here it is in blue, we made this video after it was painted: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Very nice goat--love the interior. I'm curious about the passenger door side mirror. My '69 had decent options but didn't have. This '68 does. Option?
Good eye. I gave my daughter a '63 TBird. She drove it to her friend's house one day, not long after getting her driver's license, and there was a narrow gate to get into her friend's driveway. When she left to come back home, she just had to pull straight back out, but she dragged the passenger side of the car just a little bit on that gate. The next day, I ordered passenger side mirrors for both my daughter's TBird and my son's GTO. Dan's GTO is painted now, he wanted it blue, it looks pretty good: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Very unusual configuration, someone really appreciated the basics but needed that a/c, for that fact and the color choice , I believe it would have been an older individual for sure.
I think you're right. An older guy for sure, and not a wimp, a tough guy that absolutely objected to silly things like power brakes and power steering. He didn't need those options when he was learning to drive (in who knows what....but something old), and he didn't need those options in 1968. I'm in the same boat, but my '70 Road Runner with no power steering is a real pain, compared to my other cars with no power steering. And to be honest, this GTO drives just fine without PS or PB. For a heavy car with a heavy engine, no PS isn't a hassle at all. It's fine.
Got it painted: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I remember back in time you sat down in the Dealerships with the salesman and chose your options and ordered your car. It's a part of car buying long gone and it was fun building your own car that made it yours!
Yeah, and that's what a lot of commenters are missing here. This car was absolutely special ordered like you said. GTOs came with bucket seats standard, it was part of the GTO package, so there's no way Pontiac made a dozen or a hundred cars exactly like this one all on their own, just to see if it's a GTO that people would want. Someone ordered this car, and he was an odd one, he didn't order what I would have ordered. I don't think he ordered what anyone else in late '67 would have ordered in a '68 GTO. That's the only reason I think this car is one of a kind.....it's only because the guy that sat down in that Pontiac dealership was one of a kind.
Looks like the front seat would hit the steering wheel with the seat full forward
It might be all the way forward in that video. Fun story, I bought the car from a buddy that's 6'2" and he had that bench seat all the way back. So I get in to drive it, and I can't reach the shifter easily in first or third gear, so I put the seat forward a bit. I'm 5'11". Well my son is 5'8" and he drives with the seat all the way forward, so that he can comfortably reach that Hurst shifter Same issue I had, no big deal, moving the seat forward fixes it, still odd, right? Turns out that car has the wrong shifter in it. I only know that because of this video, and some guy that knows four-speed bench seat GTOs, he saw this video, and he commented on it somewhere below. He let me know that this bench seat GTO has the bucket seat Hurst shifter handle, where it originally would have come with a longer Hurst shifter handle, with a dog-leg in it, to go up and over the bench seat (and closer to your hand). Well that explains it, and there's even one for sale on ebay, he can't sell it because he wants a grand for the thing! Good luck finding someone with a bench seat GTO Judge that's missing his original Hurst shifter, because a grand is way more than anyone with a plain Jane GTO like this one would ever pay for a 54 year old chrome steel stick, that says Hurst on it.....even with the correct length and dogleg in it. Months later, it's still for sale, here's the link:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293
Funny thing is, that in his item description he's right, it's a rare vintage part.....and I can't find the correct Hurst shifter handle for my son's GTO anywhere, not at a realistic price. He adds in his item description, that he's heard that his Hurst GTO shifter handle will also fit '68 to '70 bench seat four-speed Mopars. At first I ignore that, because I'm sure he's wrong, my '70 Road Runner has a bench seat, and a pistol grip four-speed, and the handle looks nothing like his, it's not even round. It's way different in every way. Then I dug deeper into it, and it turns out, he's half right, I searched ebay for a 1969 Dodge Dart bench seat four speed, and it's almost identical. And since Mopar made lots of four-speed bench seat cars, it's way less rare, easier to find, and I got one at a decent price, and that was my son's Christmas present. New video coming soon, new paint job, it's blue now, just have to put the trim pieces back on, and the grille, antenna, mirrors, etc. And that new '69 Dodge Dart bench seat Hurst shifter handle, we need to install that as well. It'll all be in my next video.
I had a ‘68 GTO 400 HO 4 speed with manual steering and brakes, but mine had bucket seats, a console, hood tach, and factory 8 track player. Yours might be pretty rare with the bench seats.
Yeah, I wasn't bragging though, just trying to find this car's twin. All my cars have twins, that can be found in a quick google search. Not this one. I quit looking, and made this video, I figure saying "super rare, 1 of 1", will piss off the GTO mafia, and someone will look really hard, just to prove me wrong.......and I'd be happy if they did. In my recent reply below to Will Geo, I said this, "It's just weird the way this car was ordered. Who orders a car like this? Not me, I'd keep the buckets, and the 4 speed, ditch the A/C, and opt for the best engine instead." And here you are with the car I just said I'd order, your '68 HO, 4 speed, manual steering and brakes GTO. And a hood tach? Very nice! That's a sweet ride! Oh and your 8 track player? Just take a quick look at my other videos, a good percentage of them are on my 8 track collection, and restoring 8 tracks. I've got over 200 8 tracks, and I've installed new pads and foil splices in all of them. When I don't have money for car parts, I hit up ebay for some new 8 tracks, cheap, and cheap to restore. It's a cheap secondary hobby. I've got an 8 track player in my garage, and in 3, soon to be 4, classic cars. They go great with the car hobby, and if you search ebay right now, for 8 track tape, you get over 60k results, so many to chose from, and so much great music from the 60s and 70s. I really love 8 tracks!
Just hope that your son appreciates it and preserves the car !
I love old classic cars ! I've had several Chevelles and camaros I wish I'd kept now looking back!
I love the old Chevelles and Camaros. I've never owned anything newer than my 1975 Bronco, so Dan's whole life, he's been hearing the stories that strangers in parking lots tell, about the classic cars they used to own, but then sold. And how they regret selling. He understands that if he sells the GTO, he'll most likely never own another one. He wants to hold on to it, so that's good. He's also got eyes on my split window coupe, but he'll have to wait until I die for that one. It's cool though, most guys his age don't even know what a split window coupe is. So far he's taking good care of the old Goat, check this out:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
@@owenrobertson, are the split windows ones with the vent window and the regular window? I'm old enough to remember the vent windows and how they helped ventilate the car. That's one car feature they would bring back. I would think they wouldn't affect the airflow around the car too much because of the window's size and the fact that they were directly behind the windshield on each side of the car. I think it wouldn't be worse than the mirrors.
@@dustylover100, if I mentioned a split window in this video, then it's my '63 Split Window Coupe that I'm talking about. In '63 only, Chevrolet split the rear glass in the Corvette. All other hardtop Vettes have single piece rear glass, so a '63 hardtop Corvette is well known as the SWC, (split window coupe). As for the vent windows, the little guys just forward of the door glass? Yeah, I love those little vent windows as well, you point them right at you, and roll the side glass down in this GTO (and lots of other old cars), and it does keep you pretty cool, as long as you're moving down the road. Those vent windows went out of style by the late 60s in most cars, like you said, they weren't good for air flow, and I hear they weren't very safe, I don't know, they're gone now. And they've been gone for good for decades. It's nice that new cars have the air conditioning thing ironed out these days, but I've never owned anything newer than 1975, so I really appreciate those little wing windows that most of my old cars have. Here are some of my old cars (and my wife's new car):
ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html
You have an interesting car indeed
Well my son does. But thanks! It's a conversation piece is all. Of course with me, old cars are all conversation pieces. I was driving my daughter's '63 TBird today, a guy older than me asked me if it had the slide away steering wheel, I said yeah, it's a '63, and they all have that. I said, you know what else it has, factory hydraulic windshield wipers. It's not an electric windshield wiper motor.....it's not even a vacuum powered windshield wiper motor......it's hydraulic, powered by the power steering pump, which provides hydraulic pressure to the steering box, and also to the windshield wiper motor, and that fluid pressure drives the wipers. So all '63 TBirds have power steering, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have windshield wipers at all. Crazy! And of course the engine has to be running, or no wipers, but that's not an issue. And instead of a two or three speed click switch, it has a radio style dial, as you turn it, the valve opens more and more, to allow more fluid through, so you theoretically can dial in any speed you want. In reality, at least on my daughter's '63 TBird, it's really just they go slow or they go fast. It's just something weird to talk about, from they days when they were still experimenting with weird ideas. I think they did that for a year or two only. In the end, electric wipers are way better.
I've been in to GTO's since 1982. From the dozens and dozens I've had over the decades, I've owned everything from Judges, Tri Power, 4 speed, 3.90 '65's, to Plum Mist 400 HO, 4 speed, parchment, 3.90 67, and countless others. I was president of our local chapter of the GTOAA, and have attended the GTOAA nationals numerous times over the years. You have an oddity, yes, I'll give you that, but you don't have a "Rare" "1 of 1" . That being said, its a neat car, and deserving of a restoration. Take care
I'm not saying this car is anymore valuable or desirable that any other plain Jane '68 GTO with a four speed. I was clear about that, this whole video is about this car being an oddity. I'm just asking, in your travels, how many '68 GTOs have you seen with a bench seat, four speed, A/C, but no PS or PB? On the GTO forum, they are saying that only 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars, I don't know if that's true, but it suggests rarity to me......and then what percentage of that 1%, are bench seat cars with four speeds? No one knows, but not a lot, right?
The fact that I can't afford a used correct shifter for this car, makes me thinks it's rare, someone on ebay wants a grand for his, and that's not the whole Hurst shifter assembly, it's just the Hurst handle with the dog leg in it to better clear the bench, and the chrome on it is in poor condition, considering his price. I have two thoughts on that, one, it's pretty damn easy to shift this car with the bucket seat style shifter handle that's currently in it, and two, who the hell would buy a complete, running and driving '68 GTO for $8k, and then spend $1k just to have the correct shifter? Crazy! There's no way that shifter handle holds 13% of this car's total value. For the money he's asking, you'd think it would be for one of the many $70k GTOs that you've owned since 1982. Hopefully there's a '69 Judge out there with a bench seat and a four speed, AND that guy is missing his correct dog leg shifter, AND originality is very valuable to him, because if that guy is out there, then this guy on ebay has a buyer. I'm not knocking this ebay seller, because from the photos of his GTO collection, and from his ebay item's description, clearly this guy knows his GTOs, and he's worked at Inline Tube for over 25 years (I buy stuff from them all the time). Here's his item description:
"1967-72 Pontiac GTO Lemans and Yenko Duce Nova Hurst 4 speed Shifter Handle 4177 Bench Seat OEM - Original chrome - this is excellent original - NOT REPRODUCTION JUNK - I have been told it is the same as the 68-70 mopar bench seat also but have not confirmed other part number
I bought this off a guy for a car I never did so it is extra. I have only ever seen a couple of these in a lifetime. How rare is a 4 speed with a bench seat and, how many of those have you ever seen.
I am not new to the parts world or the classic car market. I have worked at inline tube for over 25 years and developed thousands of parts for them. I know the in's and out's and what is reproduced and what is available. I have a collection of cars and parts from the 1980's and have finished most of my projects and must start thinning the amount of stuff I have. I have kept the best stuff for myself but have way too much so I will be listing many high dollar items. Some of this stuff you will never find again in this condition. Don't send me questions I wont answer, look at the pictures and read the description and if you like buy."
Link:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Year%3A1968%7CModel%3AGTO&epid=1630579972&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5
Check out his last three photos.....I was impressed.
So this guy knows GTOs and he knows that he has a rare part......but like I said in my first sentence, rare doesn't necessarily mean valuable or desirable, so I don't think he'll get a grand for it. He said it might fit '68 to '70 Mopar, so he doesn't know Mopar like he knows Pontiac, because his Hurst shifter handle looks nothing like the factory Hurst shifter in my '70 Road Runner.
It's not just the bench seat and four speed though......my son's GTO in this video is a rarity within a rarity, because how many 60s cars in general, GM, Ford, Mopar, came from the factory with A/C, but no PS or PB? It's not something I've ever thought about, but it's rare to see that, A/C cars in the 60s normally had PS as well, or PB.....or both, at least that's what I've seen in my travels, and I've seen a lot of 60s cars. When I see a car at a show with no PS or PB, but it's got A/C, it's normally an aftermarket A/C setup, like Vintage Air. A/C was around a $200 option I think, and PS or PB, were what, around 30 or 40 bucks each? Not just for GTO, but in general, for 60s cars? I'm trying to remember what was on the factory invoice for the '70 Mach 1 that I used to own, which had A/C, PS, and PB, I'm not positive on those numbers for cost, but for sure, A/C was a big money option in the 60s, and PS and PB were comparatively cheap.
I don't think Pontiac made a dozen cars like this GTO just to see if it's something that people would want. I think anyone can special order anything, and if they order something odd enough, it would be the only one like it, made that year. I think this car was special ordered, and I don't think this car has a twin. How many classic cars do you own today? I've got 10 at my house, 3 of them now belong to my kids.......and of those 10 classic cars, they all have twins out there, no doubt about it, there's no reason to think any of them are rare at all, with the one exception being this 1968 GTO. I know I'm not allowed to say "rare" or '1 of 1", because it's against the rules of the hobby, and those words rub guys like you the wrong way. I've been in this hobby since 1985, and I know the rules, but it's just a hobby, and I'm a bit of a rebel, so here we are. I said, "1 of 1, super rare" to get attention, clearly it's worked, since my other videos have 30 views, and this one has over 5k. I'm actually not looking for someone to explain to me that it's not "1 of 1", I'm looking for someone to show me this car's twin. I'd actually like that a lot. If enough guys like you see this video, there may be a chance.
I've seen quite a few bench seat gtos over the yrs. As far as your hunt for the shifter, the 3spd uses the same chrome stick. The part# is the same for 68 and 69.
@@owenrobertsonThere were plenty of T-37's with 400 4speed and bench was standard. Maybe look for one of those.
@@captianjolly, for the Hurst bench seat shifter? That's good thinking. And @bamabound9495 suggested finding a Hurst stick out of a three speed bench seat GTO, which is also a good idea, but I think I'm a couple decades too late for this search. Prices are insane now. Did the four-speed T-37s come with Hurst shifters? I'm guessing they did, but the market doesn't seem to be flooded with Pontiac bench seat Hurst shifters right now. I searched ebay for just that, and I only found two, and they both claim to be correct for '68 bench seat GTO. One is a Hurst part #5280, and one is a Hurst part #4177. They look similar but not identical, so only one is correct for my son's GTO. The guy with the 4177 worked for Inline Tube for 25 years, and his ebay photos include a very impressive collection of GTO parts, and twelve beautiful GTO cars, check it out:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Make%3APontiac&epid=1139811090&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8H%2BURt1Qu1qlxHx6R%2BS9YyCCUFzn0HeYKypeDjhcfL0NoQSCauKGqEnrvOyEx%2FKixpCM98f7TxiX764xt0MmxTGpQvyIUiQUJzbt6o3QMVmT6qcQUX79eXTOjv4DHtolPC2tM9JT3fZp%2BhYI6Hy8cI1Mbsw5moalEalyj7%2FCMkp1Dk2%2Fm6n6Sk6s38zl63lryX5dn644mOGln%2FQCShmECPxxUMpkGNHevo84Ixrsgg0pqshS7StlygBz4Xf8h5oLAbHHUhYEtVr7PjbQhv6IxW26JoMT2T9HZ7cW1%2Bq%2Bssk81l2nF52K9VwXmzvbt8ERoA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR56fgc3DYg
So I'm going out on a limb, and thinking he might be the authority here, and the 4177 might be the shifter I need. He wants a grand for it though. A thousand dollars for a chrome stick? I paid 8 grand for the whole car, I don't see a single steel stick being worth 1/8th the car's value, even if it's chrome plated and says Hurst on the side. And the guy with the 5280 stick? He wants $1,500. Good luck to them both, hopefully there's a guy out there with a bench seat Judge, that desperately needs the concours correct stick for his insanely valuable car. He'll need to do his research though, and figure out if he needs a 5280 or a 4177. As for my son's car, I don't know why or how, but at some point over the years, it has lost it's bench seat Hurst stick, and found a bucket seat Hurst stick, and it works just fine, no issues with it at all. It's the wrong stick, and it works great. I like to sit back a bit, but you can totally drive it with the bench seat moved all the way forward as well. That dogleg stick doesn't seem to matter all that much. We didn't even realize the car had the wrong stick until someone mentioned it in this comments section. When it was brought to my attention, I went looking, and found the crazy prices, then I found a vintage bench seat Hurst stick for a Dodge Dart, and it was cheap. It wasn't a 4177. but it looked very close to the 4177 Hurst stick, very similar dogleg, so I bought it, installed it, and both me and my son hated it. That dog leg didn't feel right, it felt like we had less control. Maybe we were just used to the GTO bucket seat stick by then? I don't know, but we only drove it with the Mopar Hurst dogleg stick for one day, then the GTO's old stick went right back in, and it's way better. Maybe that's why this car lost it's bench seat stick in the first place? Why it was replaced with a regular Hurst stick? Maybe some guy back in the 60s, 70s, or 80s didn't like that long dogleg? What would be another reason for the dogleg stick to be replaced? You'd have a hard time just bending a Hurst stick, let alone breaking one, so that can't be the reason.
That's a keeper
It's a good car. We got it painted:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I have a 67 GTO with bench seat, 400 HO, 4 on the floor, A/C with factory front disc brakes.
You sir, have an amazing car, and I love it! '64 GTO is my favorite, then '65 - '67, gorgeous cars!
What color? Interior? Exterior?
Are you 💯 on the Org Paint Color?? Looks almost like Mayfair Maze. Does it have the paint code available? Edit... Definitely a Gold car!! My bad !! I could see it better, later in the video. 🏁🇺🇲🏁 PMDFTW
Yup, like you said, G code paint, April Gold, fast forward to 10:51 for the PHS Report, and it's got the parchment interior....and it's got just three options, A/C, four-speed, and that bench seat. Those aren't the three options I would have picked for a '68 GTO, but to each his own. My son didn't want an April Gold car though, so now it's blue:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I got the m20 4speed to 😊
Love your '65 SS, beautiful car!
The factory bench seat hurst shifter is very unique: has a dog leg curve to clear the seat cushion when the seat is adjusted full forward. Couldn't tell if yours has that??
Yeah, I've got the original engine, trans, and rear end, even the original intake and exhaust manifolds. That stuff was easy to check. As for the original Hurst shifter, I have no idea on that, it could have been easily swapped out in the '70s or '80s. And I'm positive that the Hurst shifter T handle grip isn't original, it's the standard style that was common in the 80s and is still common today, it has "Hurst" on it, but no H shift pattern, it's old, and it's worn real good, but it's not original. I know the car's history from 1989, but a lot can happen in those missing, first 21 years. I did order a new Hurst bushing kit to tighten up the shifter, and then I figured out that my old bushings aren't removable, but pressed in, like factory. They had ordinary cotter pins though, which isn't right, and I replaced those with the correct pins that lock in a lot better, and the pressed in bushings were still in good shape, and it shifts great now. My '70 Road Runner's Hurst shifter has a massive curve to it, to clear the bench seat by about an inch, in 2nd and 4th gear, when the seat is all the way forward. The GTO's shifter has a slight bend, and that's it, and it just barely hits the bench in 2nd and 4th, when the bench is all the way forward. I think you're right, it's the wrong shifter, and I'm guessing that's a part I won't be able to find. No worries though, it's still easy to drive, even if you're short, just don't put the armrest down, easy to shift it with the armrest up. Check out this other video of the car, fast forward to 42 seconds, there's a good shot of the shifter from the side:
ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
you could probably just buff through the black paint and bring back the original color.
Too late, it's blue now:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
I commend you for teaching the hobby to your son. I'm about a decade older than you. In the 70's I had a 68 GTO with a bench and 4 speed.
Nice! We're getting his Goat ready for paint right now, he's been driving my '70 Road Runner to school and work.
so what is your beef with Unibody cars??? Being a lifelong Mopar guy I wasn't real keen on them either 50 years ago. Then I did some research and found out how much stronger and safer they are than body on frame cars...and obviously GM did too. Research is a good thing and easy to do especially these days. So now just about all new cars and even some trucks are Unibody for probably the last 30 years or more. Another little interesting tidbit of Pro unibody info...did you know that back when Richard Petty was driving and winning Mopar cars in NASCAR all those cars he raced at near 200 MPH ( and crashed hard but obviously survived a few times) were still basically stock Unibody cars pulled off the assembly line and built into race cars??? He won 196 races driving Unibody cars and the rest in full frame cars...that would be 4. Seems like Unibody might not be so bad.
How many real trucks are built today on a unit-body? At some point the truck gets big enough to require the strength of an actual frame, otherwise you'd have 3/4 ton trucks, and bigger, running unit-bodies. A truck on a real frame is stronger. A car on a real frame is stronger. I was jacking up my daughter's '63 TBird the other day, and the spot on the frame rail that I had the jack under, crumpled because that metal is old, and being a unit-body car, that frame rail metal isn't much thicker than a normal body panel, so lesson learned, that is no longer a safe jacking point for that '63 Thunderbird, but you think that would happen anywhere along either frame rail on a '68 GTO? That alone is reason enough for me to prefer a real car on a real frame. From a restoration point of view, I also like having a real frame, and a removable body. I'm not a fan of rusty frame rails on old Mustangs and Mopars, I've repaired more than my fair share of them. Today's cars aren't built to be strong, they are built to crumple in the right spots, and protect the driver....then you throw it away.....and that's fine, that's how new cars are, but I'm not into new cars, I've never owned anything newer than 1975, and I'm only here to talk about old cars. My '55 Pontiac is on a real frame, so is my '61 Studebaker, my '63 Corvette, my son's '68 GTO, and my '75 Bronco. My daughter's '63 TBird, and my '65 and '69 Mustangs, '67 Alpine, and my '70 Road Runner are all unit-body cars. I'm not tossing out my '70 Road Runner any time soon, because I don't like the frame, but of the cars I've owned......I prefer the real cars on real frames. It's just a preference.
@@owenrobertson well sir...I have patched up my share of rusted framed Chevelles and a Monte Carlo when I was in the stock car game and those frames rusted just as much sorry to tell you. In fact they were no good for HD duty use like racing unless you boxed them in the entire length of the car. Then you had to triangulate the frames with roll cage tubing to make them stiff enough to stop the flexing. And body on frame cars were proven to twist like a pretzel unless you beefed up the frames. And you don't need top be a rocket scientist to figure that out it is really common sense. You could use 2 6" I beams for frame rails but if you just bolt a rubber mounted body to them the car will still flex like 2 rubber bands. Frames on old GM cars were just 3 sided thin channel connected at the very front and the very back by the bumpers basically. Not really much stronger or more durable the unibody frames except they were hanging under the car and not incorporated into it. Do some research you'll be real disappointed to find out the how wrong you are. You'd be surprised how much you learn about cars when you build race cars from street machines. . And I'd be willing to bet more people have gotten killed in frame cars than unibody cars. So stop brainwashing your kids let them make up their own minds. Unibody IS stronger AND safer... that's a fact jack. And you are right that is the reason most vehicles are unibody now plus they all handle like INDY cars now. No '68 GTO ever will. Give your son the Road runner...it's easily the best and most valuable car you have. All your blabbering here is just opinion and preference nothing more. You want facts research my man...research. I'm done with you.......................
@@bultacowally, you keep talking about stock car racing and new cars and safety issues, but that's not what I'm talking about at all, I'm talking about using 50 - 70 year old cars as daily drivers, and what it takes to restore and maintain them. All I'm talking about are the daily drivers that I currently own and drive.....and wrench on, and weld on. I've driven nothing but old cars my whole life, my opinions are based on my life experience, not yours. You say all my blabbering here is just opinion and preference......well duh, that's exactly what I've been saying all along. On my youtube channel I talk about things that I like.....that doesn't make sense to you? You should see my videos on 8 tracks, am I wrong to prefer 8 tracks over CDs? Should I research why digital platforms are better than analog? Or should I simply like what I like, and then die someday? Because I was planning on that one.
My preference is to have a real car on a real frame. If your preference is unit-body, I have no issue at all with your preference, you sir are entitled to that. I don't care what you drive, or what you prefer. You do you, I won't try to talk you out of it.
You asked me why I like my cars that have real frames better than I like my cars that have unit-bodies, so I told you. You didn't like my answer, so you told me to research unit body cars? That makes no sense. I have the cars right outside in my garages. I work on them, that's all the research necessary. Which ones do I like working on better? The ones on real frames. Which ones do I prefer to drive? The ones on real frames. That's just me, telling you what I like, because you asked. And I absolutely love B body Mopars, and my son absolutely isn't getting my four-speed, V code, '70 Road Runner, that's mine. It's not like I bought that car and found out later that it was a unit-body, and thought, "Oh no, now I have to give it away." I knew it was a unit-body, and it's still a fine car, and fun to drive. Did I enjoy welding in a new trunk floor on that Road Runner? No, not one bit, because welding floor boards, toe boards, and trunk floors into old Mopars and Mustangs is a real pain in the ass, because of all the factory spot welds that connect those pans to the unit-body frame rails.....but that's the price you pay when you like old Mustangs and Mopars, they tend to be rusty in spots, and the unit-body construction doesn't help out one bit. Trunk floors and floor boards are way easier to replace on a car with a real frame. And don't worry, I've done my research, not on the internet, but by only being able to afford rusted out cars that need stuff like that done to them. I've done floor boards on a '55 Chevy, '67 Chevelle, '65 and '69 Mustang, and I had to replace the rusted out trunk floor in my Road Runner. None of it was impossible, I'm just saying that based on the cars I've worked on, I prefer working on the real frame cars. And I welded in patch panels in my son's GTO trunk floor....also, super easy compared to unit-body. If there is a restoration advantage in a 50 or 60 year old unit-body car, I've yet to discover it. Either you're doing something where the frame isn't an issue at all, or you're doing something where the unit-body design is a real pain in the ass, usually due to rust, and that's because Ford and Mopar never expected people to be driving their 60s and 70s model year cars, in the year 2021.....I think we're supposed to have Jetson's flying cars by now.
As for, where the beef is, if I'm looking outside at my cars, it's with the full frame cars, way beefier frame rails, than the unit-body frame rails, and none of them are any where near rusting through, unlike some old Mustangs that I've owned where you could put three or four fingers through a decent rusty spot in the frame rail. Easy enough to fix, and I get that, but my real frame cars don't need that repair in the first place. So you're sorry to tell me that Chevelle and Monte Carlo frames rust out as well. Well I'm sorry to tell you that none of the cars on frames at my house, have frame rails that are anywhere near rusting out....and if they've lasted from 1955, 1961, 1963, 1968, and 1975 until 2021 without frame rust issues, then by my math, I'm guessing all of those frames will outlast me. Not to mention all the Model T and Model A frames I've seen for sale. They seem to last, I don't know, maybe they were all garage kept for the past 100 years, but I doubt it. They might all be from the southwest of course, but do you think my wife's unit-body 2003 Ford Escape will last 100 years? Or is it disposable? I think it's disposable. I don't think Ford builds cars to last 100 years anymore, because I think they want us to keep buying new cars from them. And my old cars aren't from the southwest, the '55 is from Kansas City, the '61 is from New Jersey, the '63 Corvette is from Ohio, the '68 GTO is from St Louis, oh wait, the '75 Bronco is from Las Vegas....so that's one of them.
Let me do some more "going outside and looking" research for you. My wife's Ford Escape vs my son's '68 GTO, demolition derby, like the old days, who wins? And who's front end buckles destroying the radiator immediately? The GTO is a solid-ass car, that's all I'm saying. Does solid mean safe? No people died in car crashes all the time back when I was a kid. Drive a solid-ass '68 GTO into a solid-ass oak tree, and if you're going fast enough, you'll die. You have a much better chance of survival in the designed to crumple Ford Escape with it's air bags and shoulder belts. Again, I was never talking about new cars, and I was never talking about safety. If I cared about those things, I wouldn't own the cars that I own, I wouldn't post the videos that I post, and we wouldn't be talking right now. But I totally agree with you, the people survive in the Ford Escape wreck (most likely), and the GTO survives in the GTO wreck (most likely....because it's very hard to kill a '68 GTO, you'd need to be moving pretty fast). Depends on the GTO as well, easier to kill a GTO like my son's '68 than it is to kill a '70 Ram Air Judge, when someone wraps a GTO Judge around a tree....or a hemi Mopar B body for that matter, there are tons of people willing to do whatever it takes to put that car right again. Not the Ford Escape, though, that car just gets thrown away.
Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, the next car I want to buy is a 1968 Coronet R/T, I love the styling on that car, I just need to find one that rusty enough for me to be able to afford it.
So if you want, keep trying to talk me into perferring unit-body cars, but you'd have a better time trying to convince me that I'm wrong to like green cars.....or Lemon Twist Yellow for that matter.
Instead, why not just tell me about the Mopars you've owned. I love old Mopars.
Neat car but I suspect you’re off on your calculations.
Firstly bench seats were about 10-15% of 68 GTO production. April gold was one of the lower production colors but not rare.
AC was installed on about half of GTO’s and 4 speeds were on about 40% of them. Bench seat 4speed cars were less common then bench seat automatic cars but not rare.
Your combination with AC and not many other option is also unusual though but in the southeast and the southwest desert that combination was seen regularly. Basically the gear head combination of 4speed, bench seat and no power options for lighter weight.
Those cars optioned that way were hard to sell second hand because most buyers wanted more comfortable cars so it probably explains why you don’t see many like it today. They were crushed back in the late 70’s because they had little value.
You think about 50% of '68 GTOs had factory A/C? Wasn't that about a $300 option? Even if it was only $250, that was big big money in '68. I wouldn't guess that 50% of any muscle car had factory A/C, but I've never looked into it. It just seems that if I go to a big GTO show and look under the hood of all the GTOs there, I don't see factory A/C in 50% of them, but I could be wrong. Not that it matters, my main point on the A/C, isn't that this car has A/C, it's that it has A/C, but no PS or PB. It's something you never really think about, because why should you, but when I think of every 60s car that I've ever seen, cars at shows with the hoods up, cars that my friends have owned over the past 40 years, cars that I've owned myself.....two things come to mind, if it's a 60s car with factory A/C, that A/C probably doesn't work, and that factory A/C car probably has PS or PB, or both, because that's what the factory thought people wanted, they figured that someone that wanted the luxury of A/C, would also enjoy PS or PB.....or both. Now if it's a special order car, like this GTO that we're talking about, then sure that guy gets whatever he wants, but most people that wanted A/C, they seemed to want either PS, PB, or both.....and I don't know why, because I'm not a fan of either. PS is one more thing to leak, and PB is one more thing to break, but I'm not a fan of A/C either, roll down the windows, and position the wing windows, and you'll be just fine, and I would know, I've never owned anything newer than 1975, and none of them ever had working A/C, and I've lived in some of the hottest places......and life is fine without A/C.
I'm just reporting on what I've seen, and what I can remember, and I can't recall a single A/C car that had only factory A/C, but no PS or PB. They exist of course, they have to, because this '68 GTO exists, but they don't exist in large numbers. You mentioned the southwest and the southeast. I lived in the southwest for 7 years, Las Vegas, didn't see it there, that I can recall, and I went to a lot of car shows, and knew a bunch of guys with 60s cars. And of course I'm mostly familiar with my friends' 60s cars, cars that I've wrenched on, but even that's a large sampling of 60s cars.
I currently live in the southeast, South Carolina, been here 15 years, and again, I've been to a bunch of shows, and I know a bunch of car guys, and I can't think of a single factory A/C car that didn't also come factory with PS, PB, or both. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying there can't be that many of them. Since I started really paying attention to this, when I see a 60s car with A/C and no PS or PB, it's always been an aftermarket A/C setup, like Vintage Air. To be fair though, before I figured out from the PHS, that this GTO never had PS or PB, I never really thought about it. I've only been looking hard for A/C only cars since buying this GTO in 2017.
It's all just talk, but do a google search for "1968 GTO engine compartment". Click on the photos with A/C under the hood. Most of them seem to have that very visible brake booster as well, so that car's out. Just click on the A/C Goats that don't have that brake booster, most of them have power steering right? You have to admit, it's unusual to see a GTO with A/C, but no PS or PB. I'd call it a little bit rare, but they're out there for sure. I'd call a bench seat four-speed GTO a little bit rare as well, but again, they're out there for sure. I'd call the same GTO with both, a rarity within a rarity. Not so? Show me some. It's a big internet. Where are they hiding?
Totally agree, if a gearhead had ordered this car, he'd want the four-speed, and he'd want to keep the options low, to keep it light, but he'd want ram air, and this GTO has the base standard engine.....and he'd be fine with the standard bucket seats, because if he really wanted to lighten things up and go racing, just one bucket seat is a lot lighter than that bench seat. That bench seat is really heavy, so is the bench in my Road Runner.
Bucket seats were standard on GTO, you really think 10% to 15% of people said no thanks to standard bucket seats in the GTO, and special ordered a bench seat from the factory?
I'm not a Pontiac expert, I've only owned two, but no one on the GTO forum thinks it's anywhere near 10 to 15%.
Can you share your source? Or is it just a guess on your part? I'm no expert, I don't think anyone is, since PHS never made that count.
I'm only going by what I've read on the GTO forum:
www.gtoforum.com/threads/gtos-with-bench-seats.28560/page-2
"I know I'm bringing up an old thread but I just saw a quote in an old back issue of Pontiac High Performance that they made 759 bench seat GTO's in 1967. What % of production is that? 1 or 2% at the most?
I still have had no luck locating information on any other years."
"There were AROUND 88,000 GTOs made in 67. So ABOUT 1%. Eric:cheers"
No one suggested on that four page forum thread that 1% was way low, for production numbers of bench seat '67 GTOs, just curious why you think demand for a bench seat GTO would jump from 1% in '67, to 10% or even 15% in '68? It's a new body style, but not one that screams for a bench seat.
Here's a guy on ebay with some serious GTO credentials, he's selling the bench seat Hurst shifter handle that's correct for my son's GTO. He wants a grand for it, and my son's GTO shifts just fine with the incorrect bucket seat Hurst shifter handle that's been in the car since at least 1989, so I'm in no hurry to drop a grand just to make the car correct, and neither is my son. Hopefully he can sell his bench seat Hurst GTO shifter to someone with a bench seat Judge that absolutely needs to be correct.....and hopefully that bench seat, four-speed Judge owner, just happens to have lost his correct shifter over the years. Because I think most guys with lower value GTOs, we aren't looking to spend that kind of money.
Here's his item description:
"1967-72 Pontiac GTO Lemans and Yenko Duce Nova Hurst 4 speed Shifter Handle 4177 Bench Seat OEM - Original chrome - this is excellent original - NOT REPRODUCTION JUNK - I have been told it is the same as the 68-70 mopar bench seat also but have not confirmed other part number
I bought this off a guy for a car I never did so it is extra. I have only ever seen a couple of these in a lifetime. How rare is a 4 speed with a bench seat and, how many of those have you ever seen.
I am not new to the parts world or the classic car market. I have worked at inline tube for over 25 years and developed thousands of parts for them. I know the in's and out's and what is reproduced and what is available. I have a collection of cars and parts from the 1980's and have finished most of my projects and must start thinning the amount of stuff I have. I have kept the best stuff for myself but have way too much so I will be listing many high dollar items. Some of this stuff you will never find again in this condition. Don't send me questions I wont answer, look at the pictures and read the description and if you like buy."
So that guy has worked at Inline Tube for over 25 years, and he thinks a four-speed bench seat GTO is rare. How rare is a four-speed bench seat GTO with only one other option, air conditioning?
Check out his ebay listing:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293
Look at the photos of his dogleg Hurst shifter, because he's also added photos of his car collection, and it's impressive to say the least. That guy knows Pontiac. He doesn't know Mopar though, I've got a four-speed bench seat Mopar with a factory Hurst shifter, and his GTO Hurst bench seat shifter isn't right for it....even though he suggests in his listing that it might be.
This GTO that I gave to my son has three options:
-bench seat
-four-speed
-Air conditioning
If you search the entire internet, you won't find another GTO (any year) with just those three options and nothing else. Now try to find one with just those three options, and it just happens to be April Gold with parchment interior, and it's a '68. Good luck! Shoot me a link if you find one.
So, no offense, but I think you're off on your calculations. Not that it matters, PHS doesn't care how many bench seat GTOs were made, so why should we? It's not even my car, I just think it's fun to talk about it. The main thing is this, like all GTOs, it's a great car, and it's fun to drive, and it's even painted now, here's the paint video:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
He didn't want April Gold. I don't blame him, it's not my favorite color either. Anyway it's just paint, and we left the jams black, as they've been since at least 1989. I bought it in 2017, and I don't know the car's history before '89. If my son wants it to be April Gold when he's an old man, he can always make that happen.
Some cars were built to last a lifetime, and then another lifetime....and then another lifetime, the '68 GTO was one of those cars. It's a good car. My daily driver right now is a '55 Chieftain, it's nice that some cars won't die.
It is a rare car I'm not seen one like that I've seen dozens but not like that one that was ordered it's worth some money how much you want for it
Well it's not mine to sell, it's my son's, and I hope it's never for sale. My son wants to keep it and drive it, and I know at least one guy from high school that's still driving his '66 red Mustang convertible. He was smart, never hot rodded it, just drove it, and took it to the mechanic when it needed work. That, and keep it garaged, when you aren't driving it, and it'll last forever. I hope my son does like that guy. I couldn't stay away from Super Shops, as a kid, and spent way too much money making old cars quicker, but less reliable. And I'm a mechanic, so I do all my own work....but I was a jet engine mechanic, and I was never an ASE certified automotive mechanic, so yeah, sometimes I mess stuff up and have to fix my mistakes down the road. My son doesn't love turning wrenches like I do, but that's okay, he can find a good mechanic that he trusts, and he'll be just fine. It's not like I can fix my own HVAC....sometimes we all need to pay for a little professional assistance. To your point though, my son wants my '63 Corvette when I die....so maybe that's when he'll need the space, and have to sell his '68 GTO. That GTO is a great car though, not because it's weird and rare, it's just a fun, bone stock, four-speed GTO, and it's a blast to drive.
Sweet car
Thanks! My son loves it. It's getting painted right now.
very nice
Thanks! Just got it painted, new video soon, it's blue now.
What is a "Unitbody" Car ???
A unit-body or unibody car is a car with a unitized body. That just means that the frame is part of the body, it's a lightweight frame with thin metal, so the structure of the body itself provides a good portion of the the car's overall structural integrity. Most vehicles today are unit body cars. Trucks still sit on real frames. Back in '68, small cars, and most mid-sized cars were unit body cars, but GM's mid-sized A-body, like this GTO, still sat on a real frame, like the cars of the 50s, and older. When you hear that someone did a frame-off restoration, it means they removed the body from the frame, and then restored the frame without the body in the way, and restored the body without the frame in the way. When I hear that someone did a frame-off restoration on a unit body car, like the Mustang, well I don't know what that means.
www.hemmings.com/stories/article/body-on-frame-vs-unit-body
My God man...you're a car guy and don't even know what UNIBODY is??? Just about every car and even some trucks built on planet earth now are Unibody. SHEEEEZE!!!
@@bultacowally, he never said he was a car guy, he just wanted to know what a unit-body car was. If he read my reply, well now he knows. Knowing is half the battle.
Yeah, it's a wierd one. Someone ordered it or the a/c was a mistake. The bench seat is unusual for sure. I haven't seen one.
When I first bought the car from a friend of mine, I figured it came with PS and A/C, and at some point, someone ditched the power steering for whatever reason. Then I got the PHS report, and saw that it was ordered with the bench seat, the four-speed, A/C, and nothing else. Yeah, pretty weird, but back then you could order whatever you wanted. The guy that ordered this one, knew what he wanted, and it wasn't the sort of GTO that most everyone else wanted. I love the car, but it's not what I would have ordered.
I have 1 .
Love it
Typically people ordered the power option deletes to go drag racing but to have AC as well and a bench 4 speed is odd. I have always thought bench 4 speeds were cool and unique. I have a 69 gto and owned it nearly 30 years, has a 70 455 built up in it now. My dad had several ponchos including a 69 lemans, 68 gto, 66 and 67 gto and a 65 tempest custom convertible we put a 428 with ttri power in and a 12 bolt and disc brakes, fun car. Definitely a unique car, your sons lucky to have such a cool unique Pontiac. Sounds like you have some beautiful cars, that mopar sounds nice, my brother had a 70 plum crazy rt/se 440 challenger and a 71 demon with a 340 and a 4 speed with a 3.91 sure grip, a fun and fast car to drive, i got to drive it a few times. Good luck with the goat, looking forward to seeing it painted and polished up! I have all the phs docs on mine too, was vedoro green with a black top and black interior built in fremont, if it has a Z in the vin code its always a Fremont car. Also still has original black n yellow plates...fun times! Thanks for sharing!
You win best comment. I'm the judge, and I'm biased, but you still win. I was trying to ruffle feathers, by saying 1 of 1, I know people hate that, but you saw through my attempt and simply made an accurate observation. We don't know why this car was built like this, but as you pointed out, it wasn't built stripped down for racing, A/C and that bench add a lot of dead weight. And think about this....how many 60s cars have you seen with A/C and no PS or PB, any 60s car, not just Pontiac. You don't see that too often right? I vividly remember a lot of 60s cars, relatives' cars, high school friends' cars, Air Force buddies' cars, 60s cars in my home town that go to car shows with their hoods up, and 60s cars that I've looked at because they were cool, or for sale, or both. You just don't see a lot of 60s cars with factory A/C and no PB or PS. Every A/C car that I can remember, had A/C and PB, or A/C and PS, or all three. So yeah, I think this GTO is rare for two separate reasons. And when I say rare, I don't mean valuable or even special, it's just weird and cool. I bought it because it was a GTO with a four speed and the price was right. That's all that really matters. I like four speed cars. My son likes it too. Yeah, my son is lucky, and I gave my daughter a '63 TBird. I can't pay for them to go to college, they'll have to figure that out on their own. But I've been hoarding old cars for a long time now, so that's covered. Your '69 sounds sweet! I've got a green (gonna be green - it has a green interior) '55 Pontiac, and a green Studebaker, I love green cars. That 455 must be fun, torque monster! That's cool that you've had it for 30 years! Your dad had some sweet cars as well! I've got a bunch of cool old cars, none of them are beautiful like you suggested. I tend to buy cars that need work. Your brother had some nice cars too! Your family has good taste. I love the Mopars and Plum Crazy is awesome!
Sounds like you really have some cool cars. I had a 68 mustang with a 302 and a C4 before my gto, meadowlark yellow with a black top. I forgot to mention my younger brother who is in Austin Texas has a 63 ford truck he found in a field and restored and currently has a 57 belaire in the paint shop. He's going to put in a 383 stroker and a 4l80e trans. I love the fact that the phs exists, all vehicles don't have that luxury. I was able to see my car came with the wood custom sport wheel which was missing of course so i added it. My car also had a 68 Hurst dual gate in it when i got it as well, hung onto it and put a factory one in. That vette sounds awesome 2, my friends dad had a 57 t bird and a 66 and 67 vettes both with 427's, one with a 4 barrel and the other with 3 2's on it and both 4 speeds. My friends and i had a muscle car club back in high school, we were called missions muscle. We all had classics, i beat pretty much all of my friends i raced against. Its great that you have given both of your kids classics and instilled knowledge in them about working on cars. One of the greatest things my dad taught me was how to work on cars and to appreciate the classics. Sadly most parents and kida nowadays don't do this and don't posses the knowledge becsuse they weren't taught, its very valuable! I wish you and your family all the best, would love to see some more of your collection!!
@@puddleduckist, oh yeah, your family has good taste in cars. My dad had a '32 Cadillac when I was a kid, V12 car, original engine. He bought it in the 60s. He was the class of '61 and drove a Nash Metropolitan when he was in high school. My dad also had a '69 four-door Lincoln when I was a kid, suicide doors. I hope my kids hold onto what I gave them. Those are their cars though, they can do what they want. They are twins, turn 18 soon, that's when I'm signing the titles over to them, for their birthday presents, but those have always been their cars. It was fun to shop for a car for my 13 year old son, and the TBird, I already had. I just figured since it had A/C and PS, it would be a good car for her. I graduated high school in California, back in '88. Same thing here, we had a full-on car show with the cars we drove, but we never thought of it like that, we just cruised our old cars, parked at 7-11 and Hal's Market, cruised some more, raced out in the country occasionally, we had fun. I can still remember all the cars we had, and who drove what, it's an impressive list. Yeah, I think you're right, all of the classics are still tucked away in garages, but I don't see parents handing them down, and more importantly, I don't see kids that even want those old '60s cars. Kind of like how back in the 80s, I was all about 60s cars, and respected 50s cars, but I wasn't too much into 20s, 30s, and 40s cars, unless they were totally rodded out, ZZ Top style.
I recently made a video with most of my cars in it. The only ones missing are the three that don't run right now, the '65 Mustang fastback, '66 Sunbeam Alpine, and a '61 Studebaker Hawk. Those aren't in the video, because they are tucked away in the garage, but I had everything else outside and lined up that day, even my kids' cars are in the video. Here's that video link:
ruclips.net/video/BZp6U4n1ad0/видео.html
Wow, great memories and lots of fun! Your a bit older than me by 3 yrs or so but not much different. My dad had a 59 triumph tr3 when he was young and he bought another one many yrs ago. That was one cool little car, had a bug bors kit in the 4 cyl and dual side draft carbs and a 4 speed. There were no door handles, it had a pocket in each doir with a cable u pulled. It had the racing pop up gas cap in the top back and the spare tire fit in this cool little compartment that had a removable cover below the bumper, such a cool little car!! Great memories for sure! My dad and i were the Pontiac nuts and went to the first jom butler nationals in Tennessee and the gto nationals in Wichita Kansas one year. Went to a pontiac show in bend Oregon called tiger run many times and won first and second. We have met many Pontiac greats, jim wangers, pete McCarthey, jum butler and his sons, bruce fulper and many others. My dads ca lr was a 67 lemans we called the lemanster. It had a butler 455 stroked to a 474 with 13.1 and ran 10.80's ar 125 plus mph, fast car.
@@puddleduckist, man that's awesome! First AND second, what a great memory to have with your dad! I don't know anything about Triumphs, especially one as old as that. What's a bug bors kit? I had a red 67 Sunbeam Alpine with dual side draft Webers, but I never got them working, so I cheated, and bought an earlier alpine single 2 barrel intake, and then ran an adapter for a Holley 2 barrel that I bought brand new. It ran pretty good, but not fantastic. I'm more used to V8 cars, and I sold that little red Alpine. The Lemanster sound's sweet. Bad-ass! Yeah, we're about the same age. Almost all of my car buddies are our age or older, and sometimes way older. It's too bad more younger guys aren't into the cars we love. I know a few though, four that I can name, so good for them. I keep telling them to hang in there, once all the guys my age die, all those sixties cars will be all theirs, since the vast majority of their peers don't seem too interested.
Got is a lot like Buick. You had the midlife crisis guys ordering comfort stuff like ax but who needs to stop and steer. It’s all about going it a straight line really fast and trying to not have much weight in the front end. Super rare car and in beautiful shape. Glad your son isn’t into 4cyl junk made by the people who brought us ww2.
Ha! Great comment! Yeah, he loves this car. We just got it painted, but he's been working and going to school, and I just got home from buying a '68 Coronet R/T in Virginia. Still last night, we were able to get his side mirrors, antenna, and marker lights back on, and he drove it to school today for the first time with the new paint job. He was so excited about that. It's a great hobby. We need to at least try to let our kids in on it. It's an expensive hobby right now, but once all the guys my age (and older) die off, there will be way less demand, and the supply will remain fairly constant. It's not like these cars are getting wrapped around telephone poles at a high rate these days, or drag raced into the ground. Most of them are just tucked away in some old guy's garage, waiting for him to die, so the kids can sell everything on estate auction. That's how I got my '63 Corvette. Guy died with two of them. Two split window Corvettes, side-by-side in his garage, one silver, one tan. He had two sons. When he died, neither son wanted either of dad's prized Corvettes. Everything went on estate sale. Crazy!
That is a really rare gto. The 4speed and ac is really what makes it. I have a rare dodge as well. 1972 Dodge Challenger 340 4 speed with factory ac counseled buckets factory hemi orange y93 code car which is dealer promotional car. Car is 1of 5 made with ac but the only one in hemi orange and the only one like it with the y93 code. Also have a 70 4 speed gs stage 1. I just started posting more of my cars on RUclips a year ago.
Nice! I just subscribed to your channel, I want to see that Challenger. I'm leaning heavily towards Mopar these days.
Just buy Pontiac Historic Services PHS report and ask them how many others were built. The have all the records
I've got the PHS Report, fast forward to 10:40 until the end of the video, that's the PHS Report, it's all you get. It's not cool like the Marti Report that you can get for old Mustangs, because PHS never put all of their data into a searchable computer database like Marti did. If they had, then for sure, PHS would be able to find out how many with any option combination. It's a lot of work though, you'd have to manually enter all the raw data into a computer, and when I dealt with them, they hadn't done that. What they do have is deteriorating microfiche, like what you see at 10:40. They print it out and they decode it, and that's how they tell you what options came on your car, they simply highlight your car's options with a yellow highlighter pen and they mail you those pages, that's how high tech they are. It's been five or six years since I ordered that PHS Report, but when I did business with them, they were more 20th century than 21st. I paid them $75 and they printed out the pages that you see at the end of this video, it's some expensive yellow highlighting for sure. I'm not complaining though, I did learn some things from the PHS report, I learned that this car didn't come with power brakes or power steering, that information isn't on the cowl tag. Knowing it's a factory A/C car, that struck me as odd, I figured it was an A/C and PS car, and someone just ditched the PS. I've been known to ditch PS, I drove a '70 Mach 1 when I was stationed in Germany, and the PS was a pain in the ass, if you're familiar with ram type PS, you know. I called a junk yard back in the states and they sent me all the manual steering parts. When I was done, you'd never know it was originally a PS car. Now PHS does have production numbers for convertibles with Ram Air, that sort of high end thing, but low end cars like this one......they don't care. No one cares, just me, and I didn't think this car was even a little bit unusual when I bought it, because I'm into Mopars and bench seat four-speed Mopars are commonplace.....I figured GTO, same thing. Now a bench seat '70 Mustang would have gotten my attention, but a bench seat GTO didn't get my attention at all, not until a year after I bought it, and read that it's only 1% of GTOs. Then I got the PHS Report and figured out this is for sure the most unusual car I've ever owned, so I made this video 3 years ago, knowing that no one would be able to show me another car like this one. Three options, bench seat, four-speed, A/C.....and nothing else. For sure this car is one-of-one. It was special ordered by a guy that didn't order something that anyone else would want. The math isn't there for it. It's a rarity within a rarity. Bench seat with four-speed is rare, and any 60s car with A/C, but no PS or PB is rare. 77k '68 GTO hardtops, 1% were special ordered with bench seat (while buckets were standard on GTO). That's 770 bench seat GTO hardtops, not many at all. Three-speed was standard but most bench seat GTOs were ordered with column shift automatics for obvious reasons, and some had three-speeds, and some had four-speeds of course, but how many? 200? 300? No one knows. And only PHS has the means to find out.....if they cared. For sure, though, four-speed bench seat GTOs exist, you can find them online easy. But how many '68 GTO hardtops have that special ordered bench seat.....and the four-speed Muncie........and A/C, and no other options? And even if that car is out there, and I don't think it is........another '68 GTO hardtop with just those three options.....what are the chances that it's April Gold with a Parchment interior? I don't think April Gold was a very common paint choice. It wouldn't have been my choice. It wasn't my son's choice either, I gave him the car, and he wanted it blue:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Any updates on the Gto?
My son and I finally finished the body work. Lot's a block sanding. That car didn't have a straight panel on it. I think it came out pretty good. It looked straight when we finished the wet sand with 600 grit. We dropped it off at Maaco on 20 December. They didn't seem too busy, it should be painted soon. I'll have a new video up, once it's painted.
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
A few years back I remember a 68 GTO that was for sale and the women that ordered it ordered a bench seat with 3 spd on the column.Pictures of it were pretty wild.Yes a GTO with a bench is rare and now that I am older a prefer a bench more than buckets.I hope your son respects that car at such a young age.
He likes it. I've got a bunch of old cars, and I'm always wishing that there were more classics on the road. So I kind of forced my hobby onto my kids, just to get two more classics on the road in my home town. It worked, my daughter drives her '63 TBird, and she's also getting my '55 Pontiac. My son drives his '68 GTO, and neither one of them seem eager to sell them ever. And they've both been asked. They even have eyes on some of my cars, just waiting for me to die. :)
It's a fun hobby. I get them involved when it's time to drop a transmission or something, but they aren't like me, they don't like wrenches too much. That's okay, they'll just need to find a trustworthy mechanic, once they are out on their own, nothing wrong with that. They'll both be 18 in a few months, that's when they get the titles in their names.
@@owenrobertson Same here,I have no kids thought just the wife.Cars don't survive In Massachusetts it's salt heaven.Seeing that Goat brings me back to the early 80s .I feel alone because it seems i'm the only one working on my cars in my driveway in my area.Even guys my age don't seem to know whats up.I will be 58 in Oct.thks
@@stephenyoutubin4476, I'm always telling people that I need a time machine set to 1982. Lots of great cars were up for sale in '82, and the price was right. I don't see any of my cars as an investment, I just like to drive them, so it sucks that so many great cars are now out of my price range, because I'd really like to own something with a 426 hemi under the hood. Rust is a problem in SC, but only when old cars just sit out in the weather. I grew up in CA, close enough to the desert, that nothing rusted, at all.
I have a 68 SS 396 Chevelle with bench and 4speed. Factory. I just googled GTO 4 speed bench and that's not a 1 of 1. Badass GTO either way. I even found a convertible version.
I love Chevelles, and you don't see enough '68 Chevelles. As for four-speed bench seat GTOs, they're out there, for sure. Not many, but they exist, but how many of them have factory A/C, but no PS or PB? This car was special ordered with a bench seat, four-speed, air conditioning, and nothing else. That's weird, really weird. Look for a '68 GTO with A/C, but no PS or PB, and you'll find some, but it's rare, because it's most likely a special order car. Look for a '68 GTO with a bench seat and a four-speed, and you'll find some, but it's rare, because it's absolutely a special order car. Now look for a '68 GTO with a bench seat, four-speed, and A/C, and nothing else, and that's the car you won't find because it's rarity inside a rarity. Is it a big deal? Nope. Is it valuable? Nope. Is it rare? Yup. Is it one-of-one? Well no one can show me another one, and some of the guys that have commented here are absolute GTO experts. And finally, is this car only rare because it was special ordered by a weirdo? Absolutely, but I think it's fun, so here I am. And my challenge stands. Can anyone show me another April Gold 1968 GTO with Parchment bench seat interior, Muncie wide-ratio four-speed, air conditioning, but no power steering and no power brakes?
@@owenrobertson Amazing story. I think it's SO cool that your boy daily drives that beauty. Please make another vid!!!! Thanks for your reply. When you nail it down like that I understand now. No power steering or disc brakes. You just might have a 1 of 1. Keep them muscle cars alive!!!! Great dad!! Special ordered by a wierdo cracked me up 😆
@@SHENDOH, yeah, it's just a weird car. Do you see a lot of '68 Chevelles? Since you have one, you'd notice more than me. Seems like I see a lot of '67 and older, and a lot of '69 and newer Chevelles. I can't figure out where all the '68 Chevelles went to. I gave my daughter my '63 TBird, and my son got the Goat, but we've been getting his GTO ready for paint, so he's been driving my 440 six-pack Road Runner:
ruclips.net/video/AhFnnidMmb8/видео.html
Cool Find! My old 68 GTO was Aleutian Blue with Teal buckets but no console and column shift automatic but then had reclining passenger bucket option also with head rests (option in 68) disc brakes (4 piston) and safe-t-track diff with AC , PS , Rally II's
Nice! A reclining seat is about the only thing new cars have that I wish old cars had. None of my cars came factory with reclining seats, but my '75 Bronco has buckets out of an 80s Ford Escort in it, so they recline....it's nice to be able to pull off the road on long trips and take a nap. Come to think of it, my '66 Sunbeam Alpine has factory reclining seats, so that's 2 of my cars that have them, and 8 that don't, counting my kids' cars. And I didn't even know that a reclining seat was an option on '68 GTO. I'm almost done with the body work on my Road Runner, I want to start on the GTO's body next week.....then paint, he wants Windward Blue, a '69 GTO color. Should look great, GTOs look good in blue. Aleutian Blue with Teal interior is a great combination, that shade looks good with a Parchment interior as well.
Cool 68. I have a 69 that my Parents ordered new. I've had it since I was 16, I'm 54 now, so I've actually owned it longer then them. It was originally a manual steering, manual brake, air con and 4 spd car as well. (Bucket seats though) I've since added 4 wheel disc, a lee manufacturing power steering box and a complete UMI catalog at it. But it looks stockish. Of course I've kept all the original stuff. Looking forward to seeing your sons all painted up.
Oh man, that's cool that you've still got the car that your parents bought new! And it's a '69 GTO. That's awesome! I've got a good friend from high school named Guy Zindel III, his grandfather bought a brand new '71 Javelin, SST 401, top of the line Jav, they made less than 600, because most of the top dog 401 engines ended up in '71 AMXs. Anyway, Guy's grandfather has the same name as his grandson, so the original 1971 title is in my high school buddy's name (sort of), and when he was 14 or 15, granddad handed that '71 Javelin down to his grandson. My friend Guy still has that car, his dad and grandfather are long gone, and he's the last "Guy" standing, but the car moves on. I hope my kids continue to enjoy the cars I gave them for years to come, the way you've done with your '69. Thanks for commenting here, because as of right now, for the first time in my life, I'm starting to make note of every 60s car that I see or hear about with factory A/C, but no PS or PB. I've been going on and on about it on the GTO forum for the past few days. No one else cares of course, but that's never stopped me before. You just don't see a lot of 60s cars with A/C and no PS or PB, like yours and my son's. I'm just now realizing that. So I'm counting them all, starting now. I'm like The Count on Sesame Street. Me, you, and Evil Bane (who also has a '69 GTO), are all about the same age, and we all seem to agree on what's cool. Check out Evil's comments below, his family has owned some awesome cars, and his dad was into Pontiacs big time! Anyway, so far, I've counted two 60s cars with factory A/C, but no PS or PB, my son's '68, and your '69. If you know of any others, let me know, and they'll get added to the list as well. I want to go for a ride in your GTO, do you live East of the Mississippi? I'll swing by some time. All of my cars have stock, worn, and continuously aging suspension, that I only attend to when something is very broken, mostly they just cruise gently around town, not too exciting, but I still love driving them. Feels like I'm driving a piece of American history. UMI catalog is suspension parts right? Your car must handle great!
Dude if I was you I would keep the car and buy your son another! I've never seen one like this and I've seen a lot I'm 55 years old and I've never seen one.
Nope, it's his car. I bought it for him. He just joined the Navy. He deserves this car. I'm positive that Pontiac didn't make a lot of '68 GTOs with just three options, four-speed, bench seat, and A/C.....but it's only rare because what kind of guy would special order those three specific options for a GTO, and only those options? A/C was a very expensive option, over $300 I think, big money in 1967 when this car was special ordered. And the bench seat isn't even an option, it's a downgrade. It's an oddball car for sure, but it's just a novelty, and that's not why I bought it. I bought it because it was a four-speed GTO, at the time I would have bought any four-speed GTO, and this is the one I got a good deal on. I just like four-speed cars. There aren't a lot of them ordered just like this one, I personally think this is the only one, but it's rare for the wrong reasons, it's not worth any more than any other '68 four-speed GTO with the base engine. Fun car though, and thanks for your comment.
Shifter could have come out of a Nova SS as a friend had a factory bench seat Nova SS,,,and the Seat could have come out of a Lemans or tempest...BTW you CANNOT convert a 1969 GTO REAR Bumper and taillights onto a 1968 GTO...been there tried that...but you can put the 1969 GTO hide away grills onto a 1968 GTO with hide away headlights...they were much better looking...
I've got the PHS Report on this car. Fast forward to 10:53 in this video, that's the PHS and for sure it's a bench seat GTO, it's got the 236 trim code. That 236 code is also on this GTO's cowl tag, which is in this video at 1:38, showing the cowl tag decoded:
ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
As for the shifter handle in this car, it's a vintage Hurst shifter handle that's correct for a bucket seat GTO and wrong for this bench seat GTO, I'm not sure who put it there, when, or why. I had no idea I had the wrong shifter in the car, until someone told me, but it doesn't surprise me, this car has a '69 LeMans trunk lid on it, so anything is possible. Someone saw this video, and commented letting me know it was the wrong shifter. Works fine though, barely hits the upholstery at all. And it's easy to reach, so we're fine with it. The guy that figured out I had a bucket seat shifter, was good enough to find the correct bench seat shifter on ebay for me:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293
He only wants a grand for it! I'll pass. That cracks me up though. I get that it's rare, but how many guys with a bench seat, four-speed GTO are missing their original dogleg bench seat Hurst shifter handle? Okay, there's me, so that' one for sure, but I only paid $8k for this entire GTO, a running driving car, am I really going to invest another $1k, just for a chrome stick with a dogleg bend that says Hurst on it? I bet I won't! If he wants a grand for that thing, he better hope someone has a big money GTO convertible HO with a bench seat and four-speed, or maybe a bench seat four-speed '69 Judge? And they are missing their original shifter for some reason, like I am? Good luck!
You're right of course, it's a LeMans bench seat in my son's GTO, because GTO came standard with bucket seats, but this bench seat was never in a LeMans. Someone special ordered this GTO with a bench seat, so it came from the factory with it. Yeah, trying to put a '69 rear bumper and tail lights on a '68 GTO seems like more work than it's worth, plus why do it? I think the '68 rear bumper and tail lights look better. This car has the '68 rear bumper and tail lights, but it has a '69 LeMans trunk lid on it. I don't know when that happened either, but it's easy to do. It just leaves two large gaps that need to be filled, so I filled the gaps, check it out:
ruclips.net/video/zybpy2nSDJo/видео.html
Hide away headlights are cool, but this car wasn't optioned with them. This GTO only has three options, air conditioning, the four-speed, and the bench seat, and that's if you count the bench seat as an option and not a downgrade. Is it really an option if you don't have to pay extra for it? I don't know. Everything else on this car is standard equipment for a '68 GTO.
Hi from North Wales. Looks like the guy wanted a base Le Man's and the salesman got him to tick the GTO box and he ran out of money for options! Power windows but no power brakes let alone discs and no Safe T Track rear? Deleting those lovely Stratobuckets for a bench seat? The interior looks very tidy. Good luck with the repaint.
No power windows, no power steering, no power brakes, four wheel drum. It did have the posi rear end, but it came with 3.23 posi, because of the air conditioning. As for the bench, I can see if you've got a wife and four or six kids, you'd want that front bench to help squeeze them all in. But then you're shifting around the knees of whoever is riding front middle. Best for a teenager, I think, put your girlfriend front and center, nothing wrong with that. If it was just the bench and the four speed, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's the bench and the four speed AND the A/C without power brakes and power steering. It's just a weird car. A/C was crazy expensive back then, adding it was no small detail, and if you could afford A/C, you'd think you could afford the comparatively inexpensive extras like power steering and power brakes. Could be he just didn't like PS and PB, I'm not a fan either, more stuff to break. You're right though, why opt for the GTO, this guy would have been way better off with a four speed, air conditioned LeMans.
Hey Keith, I was just talking to Evil Bane below, and between you and Evil, you two have gotten it through my thick skull, that my son's GTO came with 3.23 open gears, and not Safe T Track. Exactly what you said above. I dismissed your comment because like I was just telling Evil Bane, I was positive that I had decoded the rear end codes correctly, and I was positive that it was a factory 3.23 posi car. I don't think I even looked at my PHS regarding the rear end. It didn't matter to me that the car no longer had it's posi, because when I had to replace the ring and pinion on that '68 GTO, I noticed that the open carrier unit was dated for a '69 car. I just figured the original posi had blown, and someone installed that open unit. But nope, PHS shows it, no posi, just like you said, so thanks for setting me straight. I like to have my car facts right. Also, ever since I was a teenager in love with Mustangs, I always knew that almost all GTOs had posi, and that Pontiac in general favored posi (see "The defense is wrong" scene from My Cousin Vinny, even that movie had me thinking that posi was just normal in Pontiacs). I think one of my friends way back when, may have exaggerated Pontiac posi numbers, and that bit of trivia just stuck in my head for decades. I still think that Corvette favored posi, hopefully I'm not wrong on that as well. Oh and I pulled out my PHS report and figured out why it looked like a power window car to you. On the same line, to the left, is the AM radio with manual antenna line, and that's what's highlighted yellow, but since I zoomed in for my video, all you see is the yellow just left of power windows, and you can't see where it says radio at all. So two mysteries solved!
@@owenrobertson Cheers Owen. You certsinly know your stuff. I just collected my rebuilt original 400 motor. I had it done by a race shop in Doncaster, Yorkshire this time after I made a hash of the motor about 20 years ago! Managed to save the crank, block and heads but new rods and pistons (again!) What do you do with 16 rods and 14 pistons? Think I'll weld them into a sculpture for over the workshop door!
Dyno'd at 354 bhp and 400 foot lbs from 1950 to 5250. So I'm very happy right now.
Next time it's on the ramp I'll have a look at the tag on the diff. It was still there last time I looked...
@@keithhoughton4308, ha! What do you do with 16 junk rods and 14 junk pistons? We'll you turn them into art of cour...........................oh look, you just said that, but I was thinking the same thing. That's really good power from your rebuilt 400! That engine is going to be great, it'll feel like a whole new car. The best kind of new car, a new car that was built in '69. You must be a sight, tearing up the Welsh streets in that beast! Talk about rare! The last time I was in Northern Wales (or Southern Wales, where I normally visited), I didn't see any American muscle cars at all on those streets. And you know, I visited London many times in the early 90s, and not once did I spot the surviving Beatles lined up nicely in a zebra crossing. Seems like false advertising, someone should talk to your tourism people.
What a beauty! I like her just like that.
Thanks!
Its not a ram air convertible . That would make it rare. But still a cool gto
A Ram Air convertible would be both rare and valuable, and a sweet ride, no doubt about it. This car is just rare, which is all that I'm claiming. No one can show me another one like it. That makes it rare. A lot of times, rare things are valuable, but not always.
rare adjective (1)
rarer; rarest
Definition of rare
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : seldom occurring or found : uncommon
2a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : distinctive
b : superlative or extreme of its kind
3 : marked by wide separation of component particles : thin
#1 definition of rare, according to Merriam-Webster, "Seldom occurring or found" as in uncommon. How common is a four-speed bench seat GTO with A/C but no PS or PB? I think it's rare. I think this car is one of one. I don't think Pontiac made a handful like this one. I think it was special ordered by someone that marched to the beat of a different drummer. He didn't order the typical muscle car stuff at all, he certainly didn't order what I would have ordered. I don't think he ordered what anyone would have ordered. I've got a bunch of old cars, all very typical, you can find cars just like them with a quick google search. I've got a Lemon Twist Yellow '70 Road Runner, 440 six-pack, black bench seat interior, four-speed, Dana 60 with 3.54 posi, tic toc tach, air grabber hood, and factory hood pins, but no A/C, no PS, and no PB, and do I think my six-pack Road Runner is rare? Nope. Desirable sure, but not rare at all, a bunch of Road Runners were made just like it, because it's got a bunch of stuff that Plymouth figured a muscle car fan would like. Not this GTO though, it's not a typical muscle car at all. It's just weird. I don't think this GTO has a twin, and I find that interesting, but I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong.
no tach? but ac but no pw brakes no pw steering.It is odd to say the least.id be curios as to the rear and motor code.
Yeah, it's a weird one. A/C and the 4 speed are the only options....unless you count the special ordered bench seat as an option. Here's a video with some codes, fast forward to 1:29 for the engine code:
ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
It's WT on the VIN stamped block, 350hp. The video says 360hp, but that's not me trying to pull a fast one, I just got a hold of a flawed decoder online, I should have checked more than one of those websites.....someone pointed it out in the comments, and I corrected myself in the video's description. As for the rear end, it was originally 8.2" with 3.23 open gears. If you ordered A/C, you got the relatively tame 3.23 gear ratio. I shelled out the 3.23 ring and pinion a few years ago, and called all over the country looking for another set. Best I could find was a 2.93 ring and pinion, in good used condition, so that's what's in it now, 2.93 open. I didn't want to change the carrier for steeper gears, or fork out for posi. I'm happy with the highway gears, it's not like I was trying to race anyone. It's just for cruising around town. My son drives it to work and school, but right now he's driving my '70 Road Runner, while we get his GTO ready for paint. We hope to get it painted next month, once we get it back, I'll post a new video of it. It's a good car, built to last. We like it. Drives nice too.
Oh, and it has the wide-ratio Muncie four-speed, and that has a lower first gear than the close-ratio Muncie. So the 2.93s aren't bad at all. And the 400 is bone stock and pretty tired, but it still puts out decent torque, so yeah, no complaints on the 2.93 gears.
I guess if yours is 1 of 1 then mine was too: "68 GTO hardtop with the following option load: white bench seat w armrest, factory AC, manual drum brakes, manual steering, M20 4 speed, exactly like yours! What was different: factory hood tach (no other optional gauges or clock!?) open rear (no posi) hideaway headlamps, black vinyl top, verdero green, dog dish hubcaps. A super weird car!!
Yup, both cars are in the weird muscle car club. Check online, you won't find another GTO like your car. Not that it matters much, I just like weird cars, and it's fun to find someone that had one very similar to how this one was ordered. This one came with open 3.23 gears. I guess the A/C got you those tamer gears, so you would be less likely to overheat while running the A/C on a hot day. I'm guessing yours had 3.23s as well. Cool that you had the hood tach and hideaway headlights. When did you own the car? And when did you sell it?
@@owenrobertson Purchased at age 16 in 1981 for $500 bucks in Aurora, Colorado. A totally original one owner car in typical worn condition for the times. Yup, 3.23 axle. Purchased a running rusty Michigan '69 GTO for $200 bucks (back when you could do such a thing!?....) and swapped in the power discs, 3.55 posi and power steering. sold the car in 1987 to someone in Minnesota who painted it in the original color and made it nice.
Oh, google '68 GTO bench seat shifter and you will see a guy on ebay selling just the handle for $1200 dollars (!laughs.....) thats the dog leg shifter mine had.......
@@weim64, sounds like your '68 went to a good home. I hope it's still in good shape today. They last, when you at least half-way take care of them. I hate when I see a great car just sitting out in the woods for decades. We get a lot of rain here in SC, and I don't know what makes people think these old cars are waterproof, just because they have a roof and windows. Yeah, I'm not in the market for any $1200 shifter handles, the one that's in there is just fine for my son. I found it on ebay, though, major dogleg, like you said, and way too much money, like you said. The funny thing about that ebay ad, is this guy has a bunch of sweet GTOs, and he knows his stuff, and he knows he's the only guy with this shifter, and he knows how rare it is, so it must be gold. I don't think it's gold though. I don't think there are too many guys willing to drop 1/8th the value of their whole car, just to have the correct shifter. Using that math, if I had an $80k GTO, I'd value that chromed piece of steel at $10k? I don't think so. I paid $8k for that GTO in 2017, and we've been offered slightly more than that, but I didn't fly all the way to St Louis, then drive it back to SC, just so I could sell it to some guy that lives in my town. I'm not a delivery service, they can find their own GTO. Also, my son seems to really like it, and that's the important thing here. Just trying to keep these old cars on the road. I hope he holds onto it.
nice Goat!! I Run A 65. just start light wet sanding, with some 300-400 .not gonna hurt it any. it will cut a ton of the black stuff off.. Happy Wrenching..
Nice! '65 is a good year! You're right, my DA and some 360 grit would make quick work of that cheap black paint job. That car has small dents on just about every panel though, even the roof, where people were sitting at some point in the car's life, oh and the hood has a rust hole you can put your finger in. Next month, I plan to sand it all down, do all the body work, and then have it painted. Just got a new hood for it, from National Parts Depot, so that's one panel that's straight. My son wants Windward Blue, a '69 color. He's got a job, and he's paying for all of it. He's doing good, and it's a great car, it'll look really nice in blue paint.
I owned a black 69 in HS 72. I’ve never seen a bench seat GTO
Nice! Were you class of '72? I graduated high school in '88, '72 would have been better. What were some of the other cars that kids in your school drove? Just the cool cars, no Pintos.
@@owenrobertson Dusters,Road Runners, Chevelle SS,62 Impala . Our parking lot looked like a classic Car lot
@@paulgrimm342, yeah, I figured as much. I miss being a kid in the 70s, lots of cool cars back then, that didn't all look the same, and a bunch of 50s cars still on the roads as well. I can still name all the cool cars at my high school, and who drove what, it's an impressive list.
@@owenrobertson I could have bought a 67 GTO for $1,700
@@paulgrimm342, need a time machine, 1982, that's probably a good year to buy some good cars cheap. You mentioned a '62 Impala. I went to high school with a guy named Bill, he drove a brand new IROC-Z, 5 speed car, it was okay, but not that fun to drive. I've never liked new cars. But Bill's dad had a Canary Yellow '63 Impala, a real 409 car, dual fours, four-speed. My senior year, he took us all for a ride in that Impala, after a car show in Santa Cruz, CA. Bill's dad, mom, and little brother up front. Me, Bill, and our friend Morrie in the back. That heavy Impala with six people in it, pulled up the Santa Cruz hills like there were nothing. 409 is a great engine, torque monster! Combustion chambers are in the block, and not the head, I'm not sure why no one copied that, because it seemed to work great on the 409.
my first car back in 75 was a 68 GTO with the parchment seats and black carpet/console etc. 400 auto hurst his and hers shifter. it also had the 8 track player and mind blower speakers. my 2nd car was a 65 Mustang GT with the pony interior. So we have a bit in common.
Yeah, that's cool! Nice cars! My '65 coupe had the Pony interior as well, but it wasn't a GT, just a 289 2 barrel. It was a Prairie Bronze car with Parchment interior, but someone had painted it rootbeer brown, for some reason. I put it back in Prairie Bronze paint before I sold it. I wasn't too sure about the GTO's parchment interior, what with the black dash and black carpet and all, but it's grown on me. The A pillar pads are supposed to be parchment, but we got new ones, and black seemed like a better idea. That's cool that you had the 8 track player in yours. My other hobby is 8 tracks, I've got over 200 of them, and I've put new pads and foil splices in all of them, it's a fun, cheap hobby, when I don't have money for car parts, I buy 8 track tapes.
Yeah , two fools….Lol
And to think, I was freaked out that it is a 400 4 speed..no PS...no PB..but it had AC.....and now that you mention it, can not recall ever seeing any first gen GTO with a bench seat..not at an auto show or at a car museum...my buddy had a 1966 Impala SS with 4 speed and a bench seat...but there is a huge difference between who would buy an Impala new vs who would buy a GTO new.....I'd buy 1 of 1
Yeah, it's weird, because when you were paying for the GTO, you were paying for bucket seats (among other things). Someone wanted a LeMans bench in their GTO, which happened, just not a lot. Some guys wanted the LeMans chrome front bumper on their GTO, and they gave up the Endura bumper for it, also weird, but back then, the customer got what they wanted. I had a friend in high school with a bench seat '65 Mustang, six cylinder, 3 speed, and a bench seat.....in a '65 Mustang, how many of those have you seen?
I saw a base model '66 GTO with a 389 4 barrel and Ford T10 three speed on the floor with a Hurst shifter. No power brakes, no power steering, no air conditioning, an AM radio and 140 mph speedometer. It did have bucket seats and a console.
Pontiac did just as much "oddball" stuff as any other manufacturer. If you can access the Pontiac database, then you'll know the answer to your question.
Yeah, everyone built weird stuff back then, normally because a customer special ordered a weird car, with options that others didn't want. You don't see it as much with muscle cars, because most muscle car guys wanted the same sort of stuff. PHS has all the raw data, but they never built a database, the way Marti Report did for Mustangs. There's a database for high-end GTOs, from what I hear, but that's it. PHS has all the original microfiche from Pontiac, so they have every '68 GTO, and exactly how each one was ordered, and if you send them money, they'll look up your VIN in their microfiche, print out the form for your car, and decode it for you.....so you'll know exactly how your car was ordered, with way more information than the cowl tag shows. That doesn't take much effort on their part. What I need is for a team of people to put all of that VIN based information from microfiche, into a searchable computer program, and then you'd know exactly how many cars like this '68 were built. You'd have to do all that by hand, and it's a lot of raw data. The guys on the GTO forum, that know people, tell me that will never happen.
My first gto was a 69 ragtop bench seat 4 speed no ps or brake no air but had power windows
That's awesome, your car was an oddball too, convertible, bench seat, 4 speed, no PS or PB, but they wanted power windows, how many like that have you seen? And the convertibles are so nice! There's a convertible '70 GTO in my small town, Cardinal Red with '69 Judge stripes on it. It also has the "Ram Air IV" on the hood scoops. It was always parked in a garage, across from my kid's school, when they were young and I had to pick them up. When I was still driving my son's '68 GTO, I picked up the kids from school one day, almost four years ago, I saw the garage door up, and that beautiful '70 GTO sitting inside, so I parked in front of his house and went looking for the guy. My kids thought I was crazy. I met him though, and he was really nice. I saw under the hood, and all the ram air stuff was there. In talking to him, I learned he's a Purple Heart recipient, who ordered this car brand new, when he got back from Vietnam, and he had it delivered to the Walter Reed military hospital, where he was laid up. He couldn't drive it yet, so he handed the keys to one of the doctors, and the doctor pulled it around to a parking spot that was visible from this guy's hospital bed. After hearing that story, I wasn't about to ask about the Judge or Ram Air IV decals on his car. I don't think it's original paint, I'd guess a respray from the 80s, and I'd guess that's when those stickers were added. Great looking car though, gorgeous black interior, hood tach as well. I talked to his daughter a few months ago, when I spotted the car out of the garage and in the driveway. She said her dad had recently passed away, and she plans on getting his GTO back on the road in his memory. She was very nice as well, I told her that I had met her dad, and she was happy to talk about him and the car. I asked her if I could take some photos of the car, and I wish I could post them here. Hopefully she makes it to some of the local car shows in the near future.
I got it in 81 wish I still had it it was code 55 paint parchment interior white top it was a real nice colour combo
@@mikemiskiman4743, cool! What's the 55 paint? Crystal Turquoise? That would look great with the Parchment interior. And why did you spell the word "color" correctly? Where are you from? Here's a nice convertible in Crystal Turquoise, but with a white top and black interior:
ruclips.net/video/OmekBLF4nd8/видео.html
👍 👍
I saw one with a bench seat and a 4 speed on the floor on Ebay.
Yeah, they're out there, on the GTO forum, someone told me that 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars. They made 77,000 '68 GTOs, and 1% of 77,000 is still a good number of cars 770 of them, and an unknown percentage of that 770 had manual transmissions. The '68 Ram Air cars with manual transmissions outnumber the Ram Air automatic cars by like 7 to 1, and that's to be expected, I'm surprised they weren't all outfitted with 4 speeds, mandatory, like the 409 Impalas, the 427 Galaxies, or the Boss Mustangs. With the 400 HO GTOs, it's more like 2 to 1, manual over automatic, but for the standard 4 barrel 400, like I've got, automatics win, 39k to 25k produced in '68. So based on the car, you can kind of guess what transmission they are going for. No one knows what percentage of bench seat GTOs came with 4 speeds, but it's not a lot, they're out there, but it's not a lot. Most people that wanted to ditch the standard GTO bucket seats, because they wanted a LeMans bench....they aren't the kind of people that wanted four on the floor. I didn't buy this car because it was a four speed bench seat GTO, I bought it because it was a 4 speed GTO. I didn't think anything of the bench seat until I got on the GTO forum. I already had a bench seat four speed Road Runner, which is very common, so I just figured it was common with GTOs as well. Then I got my PHS and found out that it came from the factory with A/C, but no PS or PB. Now that's weird on any 60s car. It's so weird, that when I saw it was an A/C car, but no power steering or power brakes, I just figured that someone ditched the power steering and replaced it with non-power at some point. You see old cars with nothing, all the time, no options, no power steering, no A/C, no power brakes, those no option muscle cars were built for guys that just wanted power, they wanted to go racing. You see fully loaded muscle cars all the time, those were the guys with money, they were after the nicest car in the neighborhood. And then you find cars with A/C and PS, but no PB..........or A/C and PB, but no PS. And of course tons of cars with no A/C, but PS or PB, or both. That's all very common. It's very odd to find a 60s car with A/C and no PS, no PB, when I see that at a car show, it's always a car that came with nothing, but now has aftermarket A/C on it. And I've been looking hard for cars with A/C but no PS or PB, recently, because it's something I never thought about before. It's just weird the way this car was ordered. Who orders a car like this? Not me, I'd keep the buckets, and the 4 speed, ditch the A/C, and opt for the best engine instead.
I have 1 .
Go mango Orange 🍊 !
Too late, it's blue:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Yes it’s definitely a unique GTO with the beach seat and 4 speed, no matter what ,it’s a GTO and that alone makes it a special car...👍👍👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸, lm a 70 owner myself and like yourself l have many muscle cars and to me the GTO is bar non the top dog.....
Yeah, I bought it because it was a four-speed GTO, and the price was right. I figured it would be a good solid car for my son. I love my B body Mopar, but GM A body is the better built car, it's not even close. I love all my old cars, but when you wrench on all of them, it's easy to see where Ford and Mopar cut corners to save money. In the same years, GM didn't do that, not with the A body anyway. Because of that, a brand new GTO would be more expensive than a brand new Road Runner or Mustang, so I get the sales appeal for the cheaper cars, back when they were new. Fast forward to 2021 and people are spending the same big money on Mustangs, Road Runners, and GTOs. I recently saw a '68 fastback Mustang with a 2 barrel 289 and an automatic with an asking price that would get you a '70 Judge. My advice would be, go with the Judge.
Thanks for sharing! The way your sons car is specked out is unique. One would think if your going to have a/c and a bench front seat, why not have power brakes and steering too. It is a great topic for conversation how about why the car ended up with the options that it did.
Yeah, I'm interested in a car's story, this car has one, but we'll never know. Whoever ordered it was a different kind of guy. He wanted a muscle car and he paid for the GTO package, but he didn't want it to have the typical muscle car stuff. I only bought it because it was a four speed GTO. I figured it was a Power Steering, A/C car, and someone just ditched the PS stuff, because of a leak or something. It happens, and there's nothing on the cowl tag that tells you what accessories it came with. Then I got the PHS Report on the car, and found out that for sure it came with A/C, but no PS or PB. After decades in this hobby, that's the first time I gave it any thought, but when you think about it, how many 60s cars have you seen with factory A/C, but no PS or PB? Anything can happen, but I don't think it happened a lot. A/C was an expensive option back then around $200 I think, and that's big money in 1968, in contrast, PS and PB only added around 30 or 40 bucks each. It's not important at all, but like you said, it's a conversation topic, for guys that like to talk about old cars, and how you used to be able to special order anything you wanted back then.
@@owenrobertson if you ever find the history of the car, it would be cool to do a follow up. Thanks again for your time!
@@Harleyforever20, hopefully I'll have a new video of it in a couple months, to show off the new paint job. It's going to to be Windward Blue, a '69 GTO color.
@@owenrobertson looking forward!
I have a bench seat 4 speed 68 gto black interior i can send a picture of it as proof .
I believe you. You can go to the GTO forum, there's a whole discussion thread there for bench seat GTOs about 1% of GTOs were special ordered with the bench seat, most are column shift automatics, but some are 3 speed cars, and some are 4 speed cars. They are out there, just rare. This one is a double rarity, as A/C only with no PS or PB (or both) is rare in any 60s car. This car only has three options, A/C, four-speed, and bench seat (which is more of a downgrade than an option, since buckets were standard on GTO). If you look at any other 3 option GTO, those aren't the options you'll see. I still want to see pics of your car though. What color is it? I gave this one to my son, it's blue now:
ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
Repaint it back to the gold it is not as rare as you believe it is a nice Old goat without any options enjoy the car
It's got options, A/C and the four-speed. I've owned a bunch of old cars, I've never owned anything newer than 1975. It's the rarest old car that I've ever owned. I can find twins of my other cars easy. Not this one. It's as rare as I believe it is, until someone can show me another one like it. I'm not saying it's special, I'm just saying that a bench seat 4-speed '68 GTO with A/C, but no power steering and no power brakes, is an oddball GTO that you won't see at a car show, or on the internet (except for this one), I've looked. Now a no-option 4-speed GTO like you said, wouldn't be rare at all, it was ordered for racing, lots of muscle cars were ordered like that. This one wasn't special ordered by a guy that wanted to go racing, A/C is dead weight and that bench seat is way heavier than it looks....I'm not sure what this guy wanted, maybe he just wanted to order something weird for the sake of being weird. I'll never know. Not that it matters, it's not even my car anymore, I gave it to my son, and he wants it Windward Blue. I can't argue with that, I like GTOs in any shade of blue.
Cool old war wagon! I would say you might be right. It is one of those odd ball customer ordered cars, I would say. I seen a guy selling a Grand Torino Super Cobra jet 428. It was like this car. some one ordered it with a bench,4speed, and with out the shaker hood but yet had a drag pack??? Guy said it was one of 3 made. I said yeah, it is rare because some one chose these odd ball options.
Yup, that's all I'm on about. It's not a big deal, but it's the kind of thing I like. All of these old cars have stories. I wish I knew the story behind this one, and why the original owner wanted it this way. I love it, but if I was the guy ordering it new, I would have checked very different boxes.
Just vinyl wrap it the color he wants, when you pull the wrap off some day it’ll take all that black with it! Problem solved can do the wrap yourself and it’s a cheap fox to his paint job problem
It's painted now, here's that video: ruclips.net/video/L4lDwohNILw/видео.html
You can't go wrong with a 68 GTO. I've owned several GTO. I have a 68 now
It really is a good car. We've almost got it ready for paint, should have that video up in a month or so.
🔥🐐🔥
My 1965 Malibu SS 4speed bucket seats is worth more then all of your cars lmao
How much
It's not for sale. It's my son's car. I just make these videos because I like old cars, and I like talking about them.
@@owenrobertson
I had one when i was a teen ager. Wish i still had it
@@thomasjohnson1222, yeah, I've owned a bunch of old cars, and this one stands out. It's a genuine pleasure to drive. It's not fast, the engine is a bit tired, and it's a heavy car, but it goes down the road so nice. I was never a Pontiac fan, but I am now. I've got a '55 Pontiac as well, which is the first year for the overhead valve Pontiac V8. In the '55, it's just 287 cubic inches, but it's the same basic engine that grew all the way to the famous 455. Good engine.
I moved in the early ninties to petal miss. and the wife was pregnet for no. 4 and we needed to get a family car so we went to the buick dealership in hattisburg . when we walked in show room doors low and behold a 68 gto mint condition. They wanted 8000.00 for it. I was drulling al over da place. It had orginal 8 tract n trunk was clean with da factory spare. 20000 miles on it original. I put up a fight but family won
@@thomasjohnson1222, I paid $8k for this one, and the trunk floor was rusted out, but the floor boards were good, rust in the trunk and the hood and that's it. I welded in a new trunk floor, and ordered a new hood for it. I took my family to the Hattisburg zoo, back when I was stationed at Keesler AFB, not long after Katrina. Yeah, family comes first. Then more cars.
Keep the GOAT for yourself -- you seem to have alot of interest in it with the PHS documentation, etc. The kids today could care less about old muscle cars ! Kid would probably rather have a neon green Honda with the ever popular weed eater exhaust !
I have a lot of interest in all old cars, and not just the ones that I own, and not just this one particular '68 GTO. I can talk about old cars for hours, so many stories. I've been collecting old cars since 1985, and I've got a bunch of them. I've never owned a car newer than 1975, and I'm not the kind of guy that's going to have his son driving around in a Honda Civic, simply because that's what I think the kids like these days. I know way more about cars than my son does, but he's learning, just yesterday I made him research and explain to me why the windshield wipers in the '55 Pontiac slow down when the engine is under a load, and now he knows. And he did all the work when the GTO needed a new clutch, I just supervised, and he helped with the body work and block sanding on the GTO, these past two months, we wrapped all that up last week, and the old Goat is at the paint shop now. Dad's that are into old cars should share that with their kids, it's a great hobby. Just like in 1985, when I had a job and wanted to buy a $500 VW bug. My dad had a '32 V12 Cadillac, and a '69 Lincoln, he knew way more about cars than the 15 year old boy that I was back then, and he said, you don't want the VW, you want one of these two cars, he had the local newspaper opened to the classified listings, two cars were circled. One was '38 Plymouth convertible, Canary yellow, rodded out, and the other was a rootbeer brown '65 Mustang coupe, 289 2 barrel, C4 automatic. I fell in love with the Mustang, but looking back, I wish my dad would have used his influence to have me drive the '38 Plymouth before making my decision.....I never even looked at that '38 Plymouth, but obviously it's the better choice. Again, what did I know, I was just a kid. Anyway, my son is like I was, he wasn't in love with any one type of car, anymore than I wasn't in love with the idea of owning a VW bug, I just wanted a car I could drive. That's what kids want, something to drive, and he loves driving the GTO. My son isn't in love with rice burners, he never was, and that's not even what's popular with the kids in my town, they seem to like 4x4 pickup trucks with hydraulics, they drive around town with the front end jacked, and the rear end low....I'm told they call it "squatting". They'll outgrow that trend. Meanwhile, I never outgrew the car hobby that I fell in love with in the mid-eighties. It ends with my generation of course, like you said, very few car guys younger than me are into the 50s and 60s cars that I love so much, I'm the last of the American Graffiti wanna-bes, but I know a few guys in their 20s that know a ton about 60s muscle cars, and they even own a few of them. I joke with them, that as soon as me and all my old-timer car buddies die off.....they'll be able to buy whatever they want, and it'll be cheap. The museum quality stuff will still be big money, but regular driver quality stuff, will be cheap, once all us old guys aren't around to fight over them, like we are now. So yeah, my kids are twins, my son got my '68 GTO, and my daughter got my '63 TBird and my '55 Pontiac, and I've still got enough cars left over in my collection to keep me busy until I'm 100 years old. Now, will my kids be fanatics like me, and never own anything new, for as long as they live? Of course not, most people aren't like me, I'm clearly a nut job, but for right now, they'll drive their classics to school and to work, and when they break, I know how to fix them, and they'll help me with the repairs, so they can learn just a little bit about cars in general. It works out well, and repairs are cheap and easy. If I was a horse guy with a bunch of horses, my kids would have gotten horses, and not cars. But I'm not a horse guy, I'm a car guy, and I don't want my kids to have my cars just when I'm dead. I want to watch them drive these cars now. I enjoy it. It's rewarding, sharing the hobby you love with your kids That's what it's about really, love of the hobby. Everyone needs a hobby:
ruclips.net/video/AhFnnidMmb8/видео.html
Ive always wanted a GTO.......but im more into the full size 62-66 poncho guy i have a 62 catalina tri power 4 speed bench seat car as well as a 66 grand prix tri power 8 lug 3 speed stick console delete bucket seat car.......
Nice! I like the big cars!
Step one - check the cowl tag rivets - are they original ? Cowl tag switching was a common place novelty in the 70s.
You mean taking the VIN tag and cowl tag from one car, then moving them to another? Yeah, that sure enough happened. It was the whole idea behind the first Gone in 60 Seconds movie that came out in 1974. I don't think it happened a lot, and I know it didn't happen with this GTO, because the VIN stamped block is still in it, and those guys didn't go through all that much trouble, to fake a block stamping, not for a car like this GTO. It did happen though. I read about a '64 Corvette that was at a car show, and the Vette's owner never decoded his numbers. Another Vette guy looked at his VIN tag, and it was the VIN tag off a '64 Impala, same year Chevy, just not a Vette. I guess they titled them as whatever year and then just Chevy, where they were at, and the DMV didn't add little details like Impala or Corvette, back when the car was stolen in the 70s. That's lazy car thief right there, he didn't even buy a wrecked '64 Vette, he bought a wrecked '64 Impala, put that VIN tag on the stolen '64 Vette, sold it, and got away with it from 1976 until very recently. No one noticed until that car show. So he takes his Impala Vette from the car show, to the Highway Patrol and they find the Vette's original VIN stamped on the frame rail, now they know the car's real owner, and it was reported stolen in 1976, and now the guy that paid big money for that car, just lost it, it's no longer his, and they'll never catch the thief, the thief totally got away with it. So I agree, pay attention to those rivets, but more importantly, find the car's "hidden" VIN, and make sure that matches the title and VIN tag as well. And it's nice if you've got the VIN stamped block, but it's understandable that a lot of old cars have replacement engines by now. I'm a big fan of documentation and decoding my numbers, so I made a video for my Vette, and at the very beginning of this video, there's a screenshot of that poor guy and his Vette:
ruclips.net/video/Zp3cCYdohzA/видео.html
@@owenrobertson In the 70s I went to a lot of shows and flea markets and there you could get any cowl tag you wanted stamped right there. It was then all a gag or car nerd stuff the value did not change much. They said mustangs were easiest to change. Moms 6 cylinder stang became a boss 302 overnight!
@@markcollins8326, yeah, but it didn't become a Boss 302 overnight, because the fifth digit in a Ford or Mopar's VIN is the engine code. And her VIN's fifth digit was the letter code for six banger, not Boss 302. The fifth digit in a Boss 302's VIN is G. Hers wasn't G, so changing the body tag, is no good at all (it's actually just a sticker on a '70 Mustang's driver's door, and not a metal tag at all, '69 Mustang still had the metal tag though, like earlier Mustangs). Mustang guys call it a data plate, Mopar guys call it a fender tag, since that's where it's at, but you're right, it's a cowl tag on the GTO, located under the hood, on the driver's side cowl area. Anyway, getting a new body tag (or sticker) for your Mustang has always been easy to do, but it's not enough. You'd have to change the VIN tag as well, assuming you're starting with a six cylinder Mustang that's also a '69 or '70 Sportsroof. Then you'd have to go to the DMV and ask them to please change the VIN on your title to match your new VIN tag, because you need that G on there. Then they would tell you to go to the Highway Patrol for a VIN inspection, then the Highway Patrol would check the hidden VIN that's stamped on the '69 or '70 Mustang's fender apron that you have to unbolt and lift the fender to see, then the HIghway Patrol would tell you that you don't have a G code Mustang (Boss 302), and in fact, you have a T or L code Mustang (six cylinder). And that would be the end of that. So like you said, at best, changing your fender tag like that would be a silly gag, nothing more, it would be senseless, it's not even worth drilling the old rivets out. I'm not saying no one ever did it, and I'm not saying you can't fake a body tag, but I don't think a lot of people did it. And it wouldn't fool anyone that knows old cars. My son's GTO's VIN says it's a 68 GTO hardtop built in Kansas City, MO, and it's got the production number. Name, rank, and serial number, and that's it, very little information on a GM VIN. Unfortunately, GM didn't use the fifth digit of the VIN for the engine code, the way Ford and Mopar did. His cowl tag says it was built the 3rd week of October, 1967, and it's a '68 GTO coupe built in Kansas City, MO, and it's got unit number, and the only additional information on that body tag is that it was painted April Gold, with no vinyl top, and it came with Parchment bench seat interior. That's it for the VIN and cowl tag, not a lot there, nothing that's even worth changing, even if you knew a guy that made fake cowl tags. Ford and Mopar were way better at putting useful information on their tags, GM not so much. Fortunately for me, this is a Pontiac, so I called PHS (Pontiac Historic Services), and purchased my car's PHS Report from them. They charged me like 80 bucks I think, but it's worth it. I've never found a build sheet in any of my old cars, but with PHS, you don't need it. They have the original billing information from Pontiac corporate on microfiche, for lots of years of vintage Pontiacs. GM's Pontiac division didn't need to keep that information forever, and PHS somehow got a hold of it. So you send them the money and your car's VIN, then they find your car's original billing form, in their microfiche, they print it out, and decode it for you. It has the VIN on it, and all the codes on how to build the car, every last detail from the top to the tires. PHS sends you the copy of the billing form, with all the codes on it, and they also send you a packet, decoding everything for you, so you know exactly what your car came with. In the video above, fast forward to 10:40, and that's the billing sheet with all the codes, straight from 1968, for my son's GTO. After that, there's some screenshots of the PHS Report, highlighted in yellow is what this car came with. Thanks to PHS, Pontiac guys know exactly what they have. Get a PHS report and you'll know immediately if someone has changed your cowl tag. Decoding the VIN and cowl tag is fun, but the PHS has way more information, like engine, trans, rear end gear ratio (posi or open gears), what options, like A/C, PS, or PB, all highlighted yellow, if that code is on your car's original billing sheet. The PHS even shows you what radio your car came with, 10:42 in the video above. It'll tell you if your car came with power windows, tilt steering, or custom pedal trim (my son's didn't have any of that). The PHS is gold, every little detail can be found there. Of course my PHS report backs up everything on the VIN and cowl tag, and my engine has it's VIN stamp on it that matches, and just looking at my car, it does appear to be a 1968 GTO with April Gold paint and a parchment bench seat interior with A/C and no PS or PB. I'm still agreeing with you though, you should absolutely know your car, and if you know your car, you'll know if someone's messed with the body tag. Oh, and Mustang guys can order a Marti Report, same idea as the PHS, Report, if you're a Mustang guy and you've got an altered data tag, the Marti Report will let you know. Here's a video I made that shows the decoded VIN and cowl tag for my son's '68 GTO, at 1:34 and 1:37.
ruclips.net/video/gTJR5OAfOSI/видео.html
@@owenrobertson I do know now that this is a very sensitive subject and as one who lived in the 70s yes many did this otherwise there would not have been so many selling cowl tags made on the spot. Get real - most cars were tame consumer variants - not big block vets or boss mustangs - the extreme variants were raced and destroyed in a short time. Engines, trans, axels were blown and discarded. Cars wrecked and parted out. For a few dollars you could get 427, 428, 440 engines at any local wrecking yard and yes the cowl plate if you wanted. A simple pencil rubbing of the block number or cowl plate got you a new title at the dmv. They were a simple papper then that many people lost and were easy to replace. Yes you are technically correct but the reality is that most extreme muscle cars today are fakes. But so what - thats the way it is.
@@markcollins8326, most cars were tame consumer variants - not big block vets or boss mustangs. And they still are, big block Vettes and Boss Mustangs are still very rare, you don't have one simply because you bought a cowl tag at a flea market. Now if you want to talk about how many clones there are, like SS Chevelles, then I'm totally with you, there are tons of fake SS Chevelles on the road, but swapping a cowl tag doesn't make a Chevelle an SS, there's nothing in a Chevelle's VIN tag or cowl tag, that specifically says it's an SS in the first place, so yeah, guys just buy the SS badging. It's like my Vette, there's nothing in the VIN or body tag saying is a 340hp L76 327, but I have my VIN stamped L76 engine, and it's date code correct for my car, and without a build sheet that's as good as it gets, and people in the hobby understand that. So I agree, lots of clones, but if you think there are lots of clones fetching $50k or better, because people are fooled by them, you're wrong, there are way too many experts, and most of these big money cars are very well documented. And guys with really nice clones, advertise them as really nice clones, and they still get big money, just not the money that a real Boss 302 would get.
As far as faking a Boss 302 or Boss 429? Good luck, you won't fool anyone that knows those cars. It's not as easy as you seem to think it is. Going to the flea market and buying a cowl tag and VIN tag, or getting a 440 from the junk yard, doesn't change your car's identity, and it doesn't change your car's original hidden VIN that's stamped on the car's fender apron, or frame rail, or core support, or wherever it happens to be, because it's in different places for different cars, and sometimes it's very hard to find. I had to unbolt the body of my Vette, and raise it up, just a bit, to even spot it's hidden VIN, because it's stamped on the top of the frame rail and the car's body is right on top of it. To grind that VIN stamp off of the frame rail, and then re-stamp it with a new VIN, you'd need to completely remove the body from the frame. So now you've got a VIN and a cowl tag that doesn't match your car's hidden VIN stamp, and most guys didn't know where that hidden VIN was, not back in the 70s, before google. Or you were lazy, and you just replaced the cowl tag, but now you have a cowl tag that doesn't match the manufacturers records on how they originally built that car.
It's hard work doing it right, doing it to the point where no one can ever figure it out, and most crooks don't like hard work. To do it right, you don't need a cowl tag with made up numbers from the flea market, because that won't fool anyone that knows cars, it won't match the VIN and it won't match the manufacturer's records for that VIN. To do it right, you need the VIN tag from a real car that has a real history, and it's on record with the manufacturer and the DMV, not just made up numbers. Then you need that same car's body tag, and the hidden VIN stampings, and if you really want to make it look good, you might want the VIN stamped engine as well, but no big deal if you don't get that, because cars blow up engines all the time, so most people don't get to keep their VIN stamped engines forever, and some people that raced their musclecars, blew an engine within the first year or two. It's a lot of work to get all of that, even if you skip the engine and transmission, you need to buy a wrecked car that has a clean title, and not a salvage title. Then you've got to remove all those numbers that I mentioned to include the VIN stamping on the core support (for Mopars), that's a deep stamp, you can't just grind it off and restamp it, you'll need to swap out the core support. The core support doesn't just unbolt from the car, you need to cut it off the wrecked car, and weld it to the stolen car, it's why it's called a "chop shop" and not a "let's go to the flea market and buy a fake cowl tag shop".
Here's how you do it right, it's the opening sequence from 1974's "Gone in 60 Seconds", that movie starts off with what looks like a documentary on how to steal a car and get away with it:
ruclips.net/video/UaP5KcEFuZE/видео.html
If someone had done all that work and more, with my son's '68 GTO, then yeah, I'd be fooled, and the PHS would be meaningless, because it would be the PHS for the VIN of the totaled out car, that was crushed years ago, and not the PHS Report for the stolen car. And the DMV wouldn't know any better, and a VIN inspection of the car would turn up nothing, because the thief already knew about any hidden VIN stampings. I say, "all that work and more", because in my case the numbers alone, aren't enough. The whole point of that 1974 Gone in 60 Seconds, movie, when they steal that Challenger, is that you buy the wrecked car, and then you steal that wrecked car's twin. Well the whole point of my video here, is that my son's '68 GTO doesn't have a twin, it's too much of an oddball. So you'd have to buy the totaled '68 April Gold GTO with Parchment benchseat interior, A/C and a four-speed, and nothing else, and you'd have to do your best to find that car's twin and steal it. It doesn't have a true twin, so you steal a '68 GTO that's April Gold and has parchment interior, and a four speed and air conditioning. It'll take a while to find even that, but they're out there. Of course the car you stole has bucket seats, because bucket seats were standard on GTO, so you'll need to swap in the bench seat from the wrecked GTO. A bench seat only needs four bolts to secure it, and the buckets needed four bolts for each seat, so you'll have to remove the carpet, and weld up the extra holes, then grind the welds down good, so no one can tell. The A/C car you stole also has PS, PB, or both, so those have to come out, and be replaced with the non-power stuff from the wrecked car that you have the clean title for. Oh and the car you stole, came off the assembly line a month after the wrecked car, so now none of the date codes work, and the engine, trans and rear end all have to be swapped out into the stolen car as well.
Here's what I know. The VIN, cowl tag, and PHS Report all say it's a '68 GTO with the standard 400 4 barrel, four-speed, in April Gold, with a Parchment bench seat interior, A/C, the base radio, and nothing else. When I bought the car, it still had the original interior, and it was Parchment bench seat, with none of the bolt holes for bucket seats in the original floorboard. And you can still see the original April Gold paint, and you can see that it's a factory A/C car, with no PS or PB. And the VIN is stamped on the engine, and the date codes on my engine, trans, and rear end all match the assembly date of the car. So it's either a '68 GTO that no one has ever tampered with, wearing it's original cowl tag..................or it's a stolen car, stolen by the hardest working car thieves ever, and it's an amazing fake. Which do you think?
My name is Lee cornell I have a 68 gto 243 car with factory 4 speed and power bench seat so don't think yours is 1 of 1 .ps pb ac power antenna.
Sorry 242
@@leecornell8074, you've got a great car. How many GTOs have you seen with air conditioning and no PS or PB? Rare to see that, right? Not cool, not desirable, not something you even think about, but rare to spot one for sure. I never thought about it until I came across this car, then I started thinking back. Of all the 60s cars I've owned, or the ones my friends and family has owned, I can't think of one that had factory AC, but no PS or PB, like this '68 GTO. And I've had a bunch of car buddies since the mid-80s, and we've owned a bunch of 60s cars, and I've been under the hood of most of them with a wrench in my hand, so these are cars that I know pretty well. It's just a sampling of 60s cars, but it's a good sized sampling, and of that sampling, none came factory with AC only. Such cars exist of course, this GTO is proof of that, but the percentage is low enough that you sure don't see too many in your travels. When I see a 60s car at a car show and it has AC, but no PS or PB, it's always an aftermarket setup like Vintage Air. Like I said, it's not something I used to look for, but now, since coming across this GTO, when I'm at a big car show, and the hoods are up, it's easy enough for me to take note. In any 60s car with factory air conditioning, you normally see ps, pb, or both. Just AC is weird, because it was very expensive back in '68, about a $300 option I think, and I think you could get ps and pb for about $60 each. Of course most cars weren't special ordered cars, they were just what the factory thought people wanted, so the factory built lots of cars with various options, and I'd guess few or no cars with AC only, because that's not what the Big Three thought the customer wanted.
Anyway, this GTO is a special order car, I'd guess that yours is as well, given the bench seat, but this car was ordered with only three options, 4-speed, AC, and bench seat, everything else is standard GTO equipment. How many '68 GTOs came with just those three options? Those are three strange options. How many people ordered just that? If you could pick any three options, why those three? Those aren't the ones I'd order. Convertible, ram air, 4-speed, would be way better options than AC, bench seat, 4-speed. I don't think many '68 GTOs were optioned like this one, and if there is one, was it also ordered in April Gold paint and Parchment interior? I doubt it. There aren't many bench seat GTOs, but they exist, according to the GTO forum, about 1% of GTOs came with the bench seat. There are even fewer bench seat 4-speed GTOs, but they exist, just go to the GTO forum, there's a whole section there for GTOs with bench seats, and some of them have 4-speeds for sure, but not many, a 4-speed bench seat GTO is very rare, we're talking about hundreds of cars, not thousands at this point. They made 77,704 '68 GTO hardtops, if it's true that 1% had bench seats, then were down to just 777 bench seat GTOs in '68. How many of those bench seat GTOs have 4-speeds? I have no idea, but I'd guess it's not half of that 777. A large majority of bench seat GTOs seem to have column shift automatics, which makes sense, since you'd want a bench seat for a family of six or seven, and shifting in a packed car would be a lot easier with a column shift automatic. I've also seen bench seat '68 GTOs with the 3 speed manual transmission, which would also bring down the possible number of 4-speed bench seat GTOs. So I'd guess that it's a lot less than half of that 777 number. I'd guess that there were 200, maybe 300 bench seat 4-speed '68 GTOs like ours, but who knows? If someone guessed 150, I think it would be hard to say that's impossible. And even if it's as high as 300, how many of those 300 bench seat, 4-speed GTOs, have just one other option.....air conditioning? Not many right? And how many are April Gold with Parchment interior?
I'm just speculating of course. I just like talking about old cars. I don't think anyone knows for sure how many bench seat GTOs there are, 1% is just someone's educated guess, but none of the GTO experts seem to think it's a bad guess. PHS can't help, because they never built a searchable database on cars like ours that aren't high end, $100k stuff. They have all the raw data, but they don't have the resources to move it all from microfiche to a computer database, so it just sits, until the microfiche completely disintegrates and that's it, I guess. I don't know how long microfiche from the 1960s lasts, but from some of the PHS print outs I've seen, it's already starting to go. I was lucky, as you can see at 10:40 in this video, my microfiche was in good shape, and it printed out nicely. All I learned from my PHS was that this car came with AC, but didn't come with PS or PB, that information isn't on the cowl tag, but bench seat is on the cowl tag, so that's odd. You never know what's been changed on an old car, it's really easy to remove PS and PB without a trace, especially in the late 70s and 80s, when all you needed was a donor junk yard car to take the parts off of, so I'm glad I got the report. I bought a report for a buddy of mine as well, when he bought a '68 convertible Firebird. He learned from the PHS that it was a 350 HO car. I don't even remember the 350 HO Firebirds, but it came with a stripe package and everything. Cool car, but there was no evidence left that it was a 350 HO, had a '69 engine in it, and the original 3-speed manual, and the original paint with the 350 HO stripes was long gone. Nothing in the VIN or cowl tag told you it was a 350 HO, so that PHS report really came in handy, it was the only thing telling us what this car was. I think it's a big deal, '68 350 HO convertible Firebird? I think that's cool, even if he doesn't have the original engine. He doesn't care much, most guys don't I guess. He installed a 400 and a 4-speed, I don't blame him. Anyway, his microfiche for the PHS printed out nicely as well, so hopefully the bad print outs that I see from deteriorated microfiche are the exception and not the rule. It would be nice if that 60s microfiche lasted another 50 years.
Does your car still have the correct 4177 Hurst shifter handle? This one doesn't, you can see it in the video at 8:37, someone swapped in a normal Hurst shifter handle from a bucket seat GTO at some point in the car's life, so it doesn't have the bench seat dogleg in it. Someone with a sharp eye spotted that and let me know, it's somewhere in these comments. It's hard to spot in my poor quality video and only something that a bench seat 4-speed GTO owner would probably even notice. I had no idea there was a special dogleg bent Hurst shifter handle for the bench seat cars. The guy that pointed it out to me also found the correct shifter for sale on ebay, it hasn't sold yet. There's a GTO expert on ebay, selling it, but he wants a grand for it because it fits such a rare car. Problem is rare doesn't always mean valuable, and I'm guessing only a guy with a valuable car is going to drop a grand to have the correct shifter, especially when the bucket seat shifter works just fine in a bench seat car. Maybe there's a '69 or '70 Judge owner with a bench seat and the wrong shifter, but I doubt it. I'm guessing most bench seat GTO owners still have their original 4177 Hurst shifter, that's why I ask about yours, it should look like this:
www.ebay.com/itm/334027951293?fits=Year%3A1968%7CModel%3AGTO&epid=1139811090&hash=item4dc59e0cbd:g:EnAAAOSwxO1gunP5&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoM4V%2Bgv1huFUziNIhN88EGHHTKAhCQO0IGkR65r%2BKmmNegfakKJzRHDPS2jxPenAMeqy8Kw2D5kvbyqgoRSED%2Bgc1KJ7PE27uJedopCY2Gan1BNczIesAJXkFPodDB8t6FMgGHjI2F%2FZXyjIZRNNb1UFM4f7Rlxg4jU4hVCx7BwRrfZ7P6PdI47zs0UZUSP%2F4Ga8OtS%2Bei3haKbyUdfPMKE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-Lgq6DqYA
$999 for a shifter handle, crazy! This hobby is getting way too expensive, he can keep that shifter handle, even though I totally agree that what he has is a rare find, you won't find many of those for sale. A 4-speed bench seat GTO is rare for sure. I'd argue that a GTO with AC only is also rare, which would make this car a rarity inside a rarity. Not that it matters. It's worth what any 4-speed GTO is worth. I just noticed something weird, and I challenged the GTO forum and youtube to show me another one like it. Maybe someone will find one, but I doubt it. I think the guy that ordered this car was weird enough to order something that no one else wanted.
@@owenrobertson yes my car has the dogleg shifter .and original ball .and my seat is power and it still works .
Nice!
242 that is .
Convince him to paint it OEM its worth the money to restore it properly
I hear you, but it's already been painted black, to include the door jams. He wants it blue. We'll put a cheap blue paint job on it, exterior only, jams can stay black, who cares? Cars like this don't die, when he's my age, he might want to do a no shit restoration, and fork out for some quality body work and April Gold paint. For now, I'm doing the body work and my son is helping me, and Maaco can paint it. He's only 18....he's not done crashing into stuff at that age, he doesn't need a properly restored car and a big money paint job just yet, he just needs something decent to get around town in. It should be ready for paint in a couple weeks, I'll post another video once it's blue hopefully by Christmas.
I remember that Mustang, oh and the brakes lines were crap. Was I nice day in Shaver though.
Yeah, good thing we were going uphill when we lost brakes.
Yada, Yada, Yada, start the thing up already!!!
It's just a daily driver. It was my daily driver, now it's my son's daily driver. Just a bone stock 400, 4 barrel, with lots of miles on it. It's pretty tired, really, but Pontiacs run forever. I never said it was fast, but if it's running you want, here you go, fast forward to 4:33
ruclips.net/video/f50mUKiqP9Q/видео.html
At what point does the enthusiast stop breaking down the features of a vehicle?
Generally after engine, transmission and exterior colour, the 'numbers' become unfathomable.
Pointing out the features outside these three Pontiac record details is an exercise in going to a show and saying "I deserve more attention". If you have proof this car was a factory 'Quality Control or Press Car', that's interesting, but "1 of 1" MMMmmm no.
It needs a good going over which I'm sure you'll enjoy doing it
This GTO was special ordered with a bench seat, a four-speed, air conditioning, and no other options. If you know GTOs, then you know that's an unusual way to have one made. I find it interesting. I've got 10 classic cars at the house right now, counting the three that I gave to my kids, this is the only one unusual enough to possibly be one-of-one. Not that it matters, anyone could special order anything they wanted back then, and if someone ordered something that no one else wanted/ordered, then there's your one-of-one, and it doesn't matter, because even if it is one-of-one, this GTO isn't worth any more than any other run of the mill GTO, I just think it's worth talking about, so here I am. I like talking about cars. Around 1% of GTOs are bench seat cars, because buckets were standard on GTO, of that 1%, the vast majority were column shift automatics. Sure that's still a bunch of bench seat four-speed cars like this one, you can find them online, but they are rare. A bench seat GTO is rare, and a four-speed bench seat GTO is a rarity within that rarity. Now how many bench seat GTOs with four-speeds also have A/C, but no PS or PB? How many 60s cars in general have factory A/C, but no PS or PB? Not many. It's weird, because A/C was a big money option in the sixties, and if you had money for A/C, you normally had money for PS, PB, or both. So this car is a rarity within a rarity within a rarity. The guy that ordered this GTO, isn't the typical guy ordering a musclecar in 1968, he's an oddball, and he ordered an oddball car. I don't think you could find another '68 GTO optioned like this one, in any color, let alone April Gold with Parchment interior. I would like it though, if someone sees this video, and they know of another GTO just like this one. I can't find it, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't know of one.
rare but not a unicorn
You'll never find another optioned like this one, and who needs a unicorn when you've got a goat.
I have a 69 bench seat gto 4 spd with no a/c no p/s non p/b 3:55 posi factory tach and gauges project with a 69 ram air lll 400 from a 69 sj grand prix. For sale.
Sweet car! What color? You should keep it.
Very odd option list. I've never seen a '68 GTO with a bench seat and 4-speed; all were bucket seats. Plus, the A/C with no power steering and standard brakes are an odd mix. Whoever ordered the car was very particular about what they wanted or didn't want.
I saw a '67 with identical options (except A/C), but this was more common in a '67 than a '68, which was more upscale with the new design.
Yup, if you paid for the GTO package, you got bucket seats as part of that. Unless you told them to put a LeMans bench in it. Like you said, he was a weird guy that ordered a weird Goat. He optioned air conditioning, the four-speed, a bench seat and nothing else. It's not what I would have ordered. Still, it's a cool car, and it's fun to drive.
I have a 68 gto 4 speed power bench seat .
I’m very jealous, lol.
You figure if you wanted a bench seat it was because three people could sit in front … but you wouldn’t be able to do that with a 4 speed. Roadrunner 4 speeds had bench seats just as a cost saving measure… maybe the original owner was just trying to replicate the bargain racer mojo , but had to have air conditioning
Yeah, sure wish I could meet the guy. I'd ask what he was thinking for sure. Like you said, Road Runner's angle was that they were cheaper than the competition, and unlike GTO, RR didn't come standard with bucket seats. You can still put three people in the front seat of this GTO, but you wouldn't want some big burly dude sitting right next to you while you're trying to shift gears. If you were in high school, you'd want the pretty girl (there was at least one in every circle of friends) sitting right next to you.
It is not rare it was just ordered that way.
And how many '68 GTOs do you think were ordered that way? You know the definition of rare, right? You can google it:
Showing results for meriam webster, define rare
Definition of rare
(Entry 1 of 2) 1 : seldom occurring or found : uncommon. 2a : marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal : distinctive. b : superlative or extreme of its kind.
Now from my video, and the words coming out of my mouth, and from my video's description that I typed out......it's clear that I'm not referring to definition 2a, marked by unusual quality or merit. It's also clear that I'm not talking about definition 2b, superlative or extreme of its kind. So, when I say rare, it should be obvious to anyone, that I'm using definition 1, seldom occurring or found : uncommon.
So tell me Ray, how many GTOs have you seen that were ordered with a bench seat, four-speed, air conditioning......and NOTHING else?
I like your '69 Firebird, very nice! Black with red stripes, can't go wrong with that. Looks fantastic!