1689 - Learning My Lesson - The Forever Wick In A Lamp
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Robert, there is a curious phenomenon I observed in a video about wick trimming. If you trim the wick differently, you actually end up with different levels of light output. The three trims that were tested were trimming the wick straight across, with a rounded top, and with a "triangle" cut which came to a point. The triangle cut actually yielded the most light output, and could be visibly differentiated. It is not clear why. Try it out. You may find there's even more subtlety to the science of oil lamps than you might have expected.
See this: watch?v=XDHuK6waXWA
cool guess the triangle has more surface area on the cut edge, the steepness of the cut could be fine tuned i guess
@@offgridnzdotcom1027 Maybe, but the rounded cut has more surface area as well, and did not put out nearly as much light as a triangle cut. In any case, this seems to me to be worth exploring with some experimentation.
I think the triangle version has more of a chimney effect, drawing up the flame on a larger surface area, a bit like vertical sticks burning better than horizontal. Whereas the round, though perhaps having a greater surface area again, has two rather short inclines and a flat-ish top. My guess would be that a single slanted acute cut might work even better than two cuts forming a point in the centre.
@@judyofthewoods cut it like a snakes tongue
Spirals and cones is the secret. :)
I would have loved having you as a father growing up. I did fine learning about electrical/mechanical engineering on my own, but would have certainly been more advanced with a little guidance. Thank you for your videos and time. I truly appreciate it.
That is awesome! Thank you, I have never seen a carbon felt wick before!
My guess is it has to the max capillary distance which is proportional to how close the fibers are in the wick plus how soaked the wick is prior to lighting. There is is similarity to this and how high a soil can wick up water water from a shallow water table. Having done some work actual work/analysis/research in this area there are several factors to consider. One is if the wick wetted prior to wicking up the water/fuel? The reason this is important is the water/fuel molecules connect and can pull up the water/fuel from reservoir below. The second is the how tight are fibers in the wick, the tighter the fiber and/or soil particle is, the further distance it can pull fuel/water up from a reservoir. However, the tighter the medium is, the slower the rate of transmission of the fuel/water. Lastly and perhaps the most important is the distance between the flame and reservoir. Fuel can only be pulled up a wick so far. Perhaps a better way saying it is, as the distance increases between the base of flame and the reservoir, the maximum transmission rate decreases.
As you mentioned previously Robert perhaps Thermal conductivity plays a big part in reducing viscosity of oil and making it flow more easily. Just to note that thermal conductivity of the brass in the lamp is four times that of the greenhouse heater which is probably steel.
I concur completely! Another point is the volume of oil that is being heated with the brass is substantially less than the larger heater, benefiting from the heat conduction. More heat applied to a smaller amount of fuel and supplied with an excess of oxygen via the chimney-it’s almost GOT to burn well.
I sew in some strands of fine copper wire into my wicks. It provides thermal feedback, thinning the fuel, and lowering the flash point.
Hot fuel burns much faster than cold. Think how a diesel engine works and needs glow plugs...
Thank you Robert for this positivity! You made me laugh and you made my day. I really enjoyed this video. Just keep on going lad - thumbs up :)
Wisdom in knowing that you don't know 👍 Great update! This is promising! 🙌
This is awesome, I have a brass oil lamp that has a glass chimney and globe. There's no wick left so I'll maybe get some of that carbon felt.
I've also got a pile of acorns that I'm going to see how much oil can be got from.
The miners lamp appears to have an inch long or so brass ferrule that the wick is housed in, unlike the burner cone of the greenhouse heater, allowing more capillary action and heat to vaporize the fuel.
Kind of makes me wonder, if a person wrapped a very fine copper wire around the week, would it conduct enough heat down to make the fuel below easier to wick up?
Are the fibers organized a certain way on the forever wick? Only thing I can think of maybe you cut the forever wick different last time fibers may be aligned different direction
It's the size of the fuel source container the heat is closer in the smaller vessel allowing the preheating you discussed in your other video.
i like these vids. they make me think a bit. not super sciency, but interesting everyday kind of problem, so it is very easy to engage. Thank you! :)
U are a Genius! I love it!
Others have noted the same, a smaller capillary will provide a stronger upward pull, a capillary within a capillary, action.
cheers mate
I would think the only difference is the length of the wick from the wick holder to the level of the fuel. Possibly it can only wick up so far causing it to work in the smaller lamp.
Thanks a million Robert. I tried your carbon felt wick and it's amazing. That stuff is so great. Thank you, your channel is a real inspiration for me, can't stop watching your videos. Very interesting and so much knowledge behind. Love your british pronounciation and your sense of humour. Thank you!!! A dedicated, new fan...
Amazing mind you have... One, I always learn from.... Thanks....
🌡️🔥⚡ Use the carbon felt at the tip of the standard wick. Only the part that burns gets damage so only that little bit needs protection
That's great thinking!
Amazing idea !!!
I tried solder wick, it doesn't work on vegetable oil but works great on lamp oil. It will last forever.
Hey that's a great idea, the copper wire won't burn and the lamp oil doesn't smoke.
I really enjoyed the filter, it gave the video that older feeling, the wick is pretty fascinating too.
All the talk of oil lamps and heaters had me filling an oil lamp that had never been used with paraffin to see if it worked! It had only ever been an ornament, sitting on a shelf. It works beautifully so will now try it with the forever wick!
Capillary action has limits, but enclosing the wick moves the balance point further up.
I did my own little test, and if you wrap the exposed part of the wick of the garden heater in stainless mesh it'll work.
Wouldn't capillary action increase if the surface area of a submerged wick be greater and more dispersed?
The scientific power of observation, well done sir!
Keep up the great work, it’s a pleasure learning with each of these videos that you put out.
Thank you!
Thank you for these wick videos!
I really appreciate what you do and show Rob. It’s also good to see you getting some enjoyment too. Thanks mate 👍🙂
I saw on RUclips that carbon graphite felt is like flame proof and can serve as a wick for oils.
So I bought a sheet of 5mm thick on AliExpress, cut a strip and tried in my old fashioned oil lamp.
To see if I could use discarded deep fryer (vegetable?)oil. Thickness was a tight fit and the wick gear more so frayed it(it’s not as tough a braid that a wick is) than raised when turning it up. I was able to stretch the felt strip thinner helped some.
I dipped the felt before install. It did finally light and burn. Seemed smoke free. BUT the wick had to be high and the flame would die when the oil on the tip was depleted. With or without the glass hurricane.
Even though the lamp oil was full.
So I gave up on that idea.
Back to recycling the fryer oil.
Because I see people say the regular cotton wick gets consumed too fast, no matter what.
I wanted some free winter heat from free oil and I was curious.
Wanted to share my experience here.
Take care
Thanks 👍 I ve just got into these miners lanterns funningly enough and this tip it great 👍 Thanks
Splendid! Simple pleasures truly are the best! Thanks for sharing,
180! Hope the wick makers don't go out of business too fast, least not b4 Xmas. No smoke and a good size flame. Reminds me of the carbon coated filament Edison (?) used in early search for the 'forever' electric lamp filament.
It's not easy to find online. That's for sure.
The capillary happens both on the surface of the material, and between the fibres. If you don't pack it together only the surface wicking happens, which is too slow. To test this theory perhaps try braiding three strips of forever wick together without a tube. My prediction is that it will work without a tube.
Love it! Could it have anything to do with how far up the forever wick has to lift the oil?
Thank you for another great video!
Ordered mine from ebay also! The wick needs constant/extra air flow more so than a petrol wick! Great Vid!
Do you have the link for it?
It has to do with the length of the wick. Shorter wick will be more likely to draw in the fuel. Fun fact: you don't even need a wick at all, just a small diameter tube prefilled with the fuel to start. After the tube heats up it will draw.
Maybe a syringe needle?
@@stephenjack5322 That would be a bit too small I would think, but maybe not. Give it a try and see.
It's the way it pulls the air rob ! I.e from the bottom through to the middle of the wick !!
I've seen fiberglass wicks that are supposed to last a long time as well.
I have thought it might be a good idea to cut a piece and roll it into a cone like a witches hat and hold with a long pin or wire and then place in dish of oil. This dramatically increases the surface area for it to wick and then light the pointy end .
It's the height of the wick vs the compression of the wick on its sides.
The capillary action is stronger when the carbon felt is compressed, reducing the average interstitial space. The brass lamp has enough lateral compression of the wick that the capillary action is sufficient to draw the fuel the full height. The greenhouse lamp does not.
The relevant issue in the fire triangle is fuel not heat.
That is a great little lamp.
The forever wick has directional flow. You have cut it across the flow in the heater setup.
Lovely lamp!
your so awesome. i love watching your videos
Very interesting, I wonder how well the Forever Wick would work in a Zippo?
That too is interesting. Care to try that? My zippo is lost somewhere.
It would work perfectly fine. The fuel used in such lighters is an extremely thin aromatic hydrocarbon that will ignite with the weakest of sparks. The fuel is absorbed into a felt material, which is in direct contact with the flame wick. Meaning that very little "wicking" action is required for the system to work. What would be interesting is whether it would work with higher viscosity lower aromatic fuels. The main problem I have with the zippo lighter design is that over time, if left unused or maintained, the fuel will dry up. Unlike if a lower aromatic fuel could be used. However, by using a lower aromatic fuel, a hotter, more consistent shower of sparks would be required. Love the idea. Give it a go and let us know what you find.
did u try it?
@@daphneraven6745 ah no I didn't, I have been working on other things 😕
@@darrylgordon5170 that's some brilliant lines of thought! Much to think about, I may do a video on it if I can find my Zippo 😄
Electroplate the greenhouse heater in copper or brass. I see a number of guys in the USA using denim to replace wicks that cannot be sourced anymore. By the way, I love your Davey Lamp. I'm the proud father of two Beatrice No.33 stove/heaters. A single wick burner and a double wick burner (her older sister). I'm going to run a few tests using carbon-felt wicks. Great video.
I discovered that metal in direct contact with the (wick) material has a significant effect on the burning - improving it - and by inference, also ignition. My experiment was using neat (stale) olive oil, in a (flat) sardine can - a sort of similar format to the old primitive open top oil lamps. My wick was untreated cotton string, 2mm dia approx (7ply). The oil (slowly) wicked up the 3cm height of the can, so logically the wicking behaviour seemed ok. To raise the wick I used a thin metal screw top from (soda) bottle, having punched a hole to poke the string through. The wick lit ok and the oil, and the wick, burned, but it went out, apparently from lack of sufficient wicking, and the wick had burned also (gone). I then threaded a short length of copper wire down the hole (.4 or .5 mm dia wire) initially to hold the wick, (but it did not need support it seems), however, the wire got hot ny the adjacent flame and apparently aided the wicking by locally heating the olive oil. The flame available was small (6mm high?). I doubled the wire and the flame increased, seeming to confirm the theory. The wick itslef did not this time burn away, presumably the flame was burning the carbon remnant of wick at the wick top. I left it for 2 hours, it was a stable situation. I guess the local heat from the flame, (or lighter?) had a useful rapid and local effect on the oil temperature. Lighting was also improved. I wondered if the (lack of) close contact of the metal and its rapid local heating effect might have been a factor in the failed attempt at wick replacement in the green house heater? In the Davy lamp replacement successful test, the wick had a metal sleeve, and I noticed the lighting took place from one end -the metal sleeve would get hot quickly etc. The flame then tracked along the wick. fun eh?
Always learning! That's why this guy is a genius and so fun to watch.❤
I might have an idea. When you added the wick to the miners lamp it might be making it more compressed. Making the cohesion of the oil more able to climb. The other wick that failed, the wick wasn't compressed enough and was too porous. The cohesion couldn't overcome the larger hole sizes to be "wicked"
Roll the wick tighter for small internal holes, increases its ability to wick lighter materials.
Have you thought about using cotton thread and a needle, to kinda see a wick in the carbon felt? Push the needle through the center, leaving cotton string hanging from the bottom wicking fuel into the carbon felt! Usea kinda thick string, like used in baking poultry possibly, maybe something thinner, maybe it would help it work in other heaters and such,?
I did try using some plumbers carbon filter fireproof fabric to make the candle wick like you said . 🤔
It honestly does not work very well because it does not stay on for very long . 😮
Once the tip of the carbon filter gets dry it turns off . 🤔
The vegetable oil or the lamp oil or even Robin alcohol doesn't seem to go up the carbon filter at all . 🤔
I have tried so many different types of DIY from glass jars with metal lids with a hole in the middle of them. 😯
I tried soup cans with a metal cover with a hole in the middle .😮
The only way the carbon plumbing fabric work is if you to emerge it in the vegetable oil or any type of other fuel .
Also the carbon plumbing fabric is hard to burn and keep lit . 🤔😮🤔
Using the carbon filter in doors is quite dangerous carbon dioxide and a lot of fumes and smoke . 🤔
Yes I tried it out. 😮
My whole house smelled terrible I am so happy that I had all my windows open while trying this indoors . 🤔
If you use plumbing carbon filter you need to emerge it but always do this outside and can be used to cook your food as well as heat up some water in case of emergency . 🤔
Not a good idea to use this in doors . 🤔
I really do like the idea of the lamp . 🙂
But the fumes and the carbon dioxide is not safe in a area that is not circulating air . 🤔
This is my opinion concerning this material of plumbers fireproof carbon filter . 🙂
Does not light up well. 🤔
Gives off carbon dioxide.😮
It causes a lot of smoke.😮
Make sure to have a metal bowl or a metal plate to extinguish the flames because once let and placed and fully emerged in fuel does last a long time . 🤔
Remember plumbers carbon fireproof filter blanket is made for the purpose of preventing fire from starting . 🤔
That is why it takes a very long time for it to wear out.🤔
That is why it takes a long time for it to get in fire. 🤔
Don't get me wrong I am planning to use this carbon filter in emergency situations.
But only outside. 🤔
For cooking and boiling water.
Safety first. 🙂
I just wish people who use plumber carbon filter for DIY heating of home and for candle wicks would tell us the safety of using this type of material . 🤔
I bought a genuine Davey lamp when I was 10 years old at a jumble sale for a shilling, clean it up and sold it in a second hand shop for two a six .wish now I had kept it because they look so good all cleaned up.😭
Beautiful brass lamp, you have to love it. Awesome.
Most likely wick length and width will play a role. Brass/copper also has interesting conductive properties.
We have an ancient oil fired AGA, it has a wick made of woven glass fibre, but needs to be replaced every 6 months. This is not because it burns away, but it becomes choked with carbon and impossible to clean.
I always wanted to know how to take my Dad's Davy lamps apart. Thanks for that now to play.
Bravo, i can feel the fun of destiny discoveries. well done brother!
I have been using glass fibre wicks, they're pretty forever, can get clogged up with soot, can melt at high temperature. Distance to fuel is the why.
@@AlphaMomentum-tg7nj been using sunflower oil and alcohol at different times
I like that Robert, it gives good light, I used rockwool to put in a tin of olive oil, made wicks like tails, with the middle soaking in the oil, very impressed, quite hot and good light.
I watch a lot of your videos. This one I enjoyed quite a lot honestly. It was genuine and humerous. Thank you.
I think everyone's comments about capillary action are correct, but, the one thing I think that you might have missed is "time" for it to actually seep in first. If you "dip" the whole wick into the liquid first, you don't have to wait for that action and it should work quite well.
I so love to see your lessons! Thank a lot.
🐨 Awesome result 👍 & lots of theory's from your viewers 🎓
🍻 💂
It’s a combination of the shape of the glass and the recirculated gasification caused by the top. Take the top off and have look at it; all should become clear.
Thank you :)
No problem 😊
Lol 😂
Thanks for sharing those humble thoughts
FLAT COPPER BRAIDED WIRE CONDUCTIVE TAPE
It might have capillary action, like solder wick.
.
You enhance my day with your stellar attitude.
I suspect the distance from the flame front to the fuel level is too great, in the greenhouse heater, for the capillary action to feed fuel. In the Davy lamp the distance is substantially less i.e. within the capillary action cappability, therefore it works.
I know this means nothing but your first two videos on the wick worked when in contact with copper tubing and this time it's in contact with a copper alloy, brass. The time it didn't work is when you tried it in your garden heater which didn't look like it had any copper. Just a weird observation.
Different obsorbsion rates in material. Test different wicks against your material with marked measurements then time rate of dyed liquid reach timing mark. If different rates, make your material thick enough to provide same obsorbsion rate. The test wicks in different stoves for best function?
This seems like a fantastic opportunity for some earnest scientific experimentation. Very much looking forward to it.
It looks like there's a small rectagulare "tube" on that wick holder
What an awesome video I can heat my shed for free with this
Great video Robert ...I believe it works in that particular model and not in the other because there is more heat area in that model the hot air volume is more and since hot air rises it's contributing in wicking the feul up through the fore ever wick ...thats my thought ... thank you Robert your videos help have helped me many of times and they are very appreciated .thank you Robert have a fantastic day :)
Would capillary action not be more efficient with your forever wicks structure being in closer proximity to itself (obviously still allowing a higher viscous fuel) with the added heat from the tube assisting with an increased distance between the flame and fuel level. Perhaps the heated tube is creating a gas lower down before the flame.
Just to add, Awesome channel, always variety, your effervescence and wealth of knowledge frankly rocks.
I have found that the carbon felt really wicks too well. That is to say, depending on application, amount of heat available and the trim shape of the wick (and other factors not thought of yet) there's just too much fuel. They run too rich relative to other common wick materials. Trimmed correctly in size and shape, the forever wick can be an awesome product.
First thing that comes to mind is the length and width of the wick.
Then there is the possibility that the carbon felt can wick in one direction of the felt and not the other, so if you cut it's length in the wrong direction, it won't work.
To clarify, the cloth has an X-axis and a Y-axis.
It may be able to wick in the X-axis but not the Y-axis or vise verses as a result of the carbonization.
The length of the wick is longer in the greenhouse heater, and therefore needs to be presoaked before lighting, once lit the heat from the flame will draw more into the wick.
capillary action through a smaller neck restriction :)
You're right about thinking one knows how something works. Reminds me of the time I watched RUclips channel "The Science Assylum's" video on how mirrors work. Turns out I didn't have a clue. (and most of his other videos too)
I noticed that you flipped the wick and burner upside down. As I mentioned in another video, pre-soaking the wick gives it some time for a bit of the oil to reach the flame point helping to ignite it. Having it upside down at the start helps in two ways. 1 you have dipped the tip in the fuel and 2, the oil can run down the wick if it was already the right way up before.
hi mate! Try wrapping the forever wick in foil and see if it will work in the greenhouse heater wick holder.
As to have a flame you need to have the fuel, air and the ignition, I have no doubt that you'll figure it out :). Thank you for the video :).
You will, indeed,
learn your lesson.
Magic!
Double up your forever wick for the greenhouse heater. Compression may help the wicking effect.
Dip your wick in the fuel for the greenhouse heater. I think once it is burning it will draw up the fuel better. Also, be sure not to cut across the grain, if there is one, on your forever wick sheet. Fuel will be drawn up better along the grain. Sorry, that's all I can think of to try.
I notice that the brass lamp has a structure that serves as a "tube" above the wick adjustment rollers, which should cause the same action (likely capillary) as your diy "forever wick" holder. The greenhouse heater only has the rollers, nothing for the wick to be fitted tightly into. Fashion a "tube" to sit closely over top the greenhouse heater wick rollers, see what happens.
...can you get a catalytic active surface or metal wire on the "tip" of your carbon wick ?
for the carbon wick / net stuff i remember that for some high brightness lamps the glowing net/sock that radiates the heat/light
actually is burned on the first lighting into a residual carbon/coal,
which results in good light emission but also a easy breakable "wick".
- and it was radioactive stuff..
You might also want to try one of the old style "storm" lanterns which have "active" air convection built in with the housing, not simple holes.,
there is a video by the channel "technology connections" i think, about storm lanterns and different types/functionalities.
edit: it was called "Why do hurricane lanterns look like that?"
The spacing of the fibers has a severe effect on the capillary action of the material. Compressing the Carbon Felt in a tube or wrapping it in foil will change the wicking properties.
cool lamp 🙂
Maybe it has something to do with the heat transfer properties of the material and the length of the channel that the wick runs through, which is acting in the same way as the pipe but already tuned to the application apparently.
I want to see a forever wick burning waste vegetable oil with a yttrium oxide or thorium oxide mantle. It seems like it could be a very practical light if it works the way I hope
The wick also works as the gassifier, and so it has a different set of properties in that regards, because the wick not actually burning. When you light the cotton wick, it initially is the cotton that burns, and this heat serves to gassify the oil which then sustains the reaction as the fuel source pivots from being the wick to being the oil once its hot (the hot oil exists on the end of the wick)
Maybe Robert needed to prime it to get the reaction going.
Always enjoying seeing your videos. No offence, but you have a remarkable likeness of Anthony Hopkins who is a wonderful screen actor. His smiles are the greatest and nearly identical to yours.
I think you need to leave the bigger wicks longer or pre soak before lighting, just my thoughts.
Yes, I had to wait 4 hours after putting oil into my oil heater before I could use it for the first time.
My bet is that the reasoning behind it working in this case and not the garden heater is that the distance that the fuel is being wicked from is much greater in the garden heater. The air space inside the fuel container is also much larger in the garden heater as well. So maybe the interaction between the fuel and air inside the fuel container is also playing a role. Which could be why it worked with the pipe around the wick.
The smaller size of the lamp must be allowing for the heat from it to heat up the oil/paraffin easier than the large greenhouse heater. Thus making the fuel less viscous and easier to wick, and performing the same function as the forever wick. Hope you found this helpful, please remember to like and subscribe.
My guess is that it's down to "sucking force" (capillary action vs. gravity/viscosity)... might be that a finer mesh has more "lifting power" but can't uphold the flow (high resistance) to feed the flame sufficiently...
Have you tried this in an Aladdin lamp? New to your channel. Great stuff here. Thanks
Most likely roller pressure for the feed mechanism.