I love this guy! He’s brilliant in business and passion. Thank you for showing us not only how to make bread but live life…conquer pitfalls…look ahead…never give up…etc etc. Just an amazing person.
This is beyond the "simple as it gets" explanation most sour dough starts are shown. Now I understand what to look for in taste and how to produce and keep a specific sour dough flavor profile that suits me and my baking schedule. Bonus info, if my baking schedule changes, how to change the sour dough starter's schedule to match my new schedule and still keep my preferred flavor profile. Thx for filming this and sharing it with us.
He is a brilliant baker! Kudos to him and Polish parents! I’m a sourdough aficionado , but I never pay attention to exact measurements. Let’s say I’m on friendly terms with my starter. 😍I’m trying to maintain that relationship and my starter never ceases to amaze me .
This explanation is the first time I understood the value in baking with a starter that is at optimal peak vs. keeping my starter in the fridge and using it cold to bake with. Thank you!!!
I just spent two weeks getting my sourdough starter going. I'm feeding it daily, and this morning, I was happy with the consistency of the results, knowing it was doing its thing, but it seemed over-acidic. This Video was perfect for me to know the holding temp and food provided were off, how I can get it going to be ready, and what to expect. THANK YOU!!
My sourdough starter has been with me for 20 years. I'm a home baker and have been getting good results with it. This excellent video shows me some of the subtle timing and ingredient differences that can affect my results. Learning how to put this info into practice is going to keep me busy for a few months, if not longer. Thank you! BTW, My wife and I were fortunate enough to visit your Mesa bakery last November. As soon as we walked in the door, we were very, very, impressed with display of breads and other items. I hope your efforts result in a huge success for your business and you personally.
Jon, i have been following you since you were in the garage...I've learned so much about my sourdough starter over these years and have improved my sourdough making skills significantly. I am glad to see you address the home bakers needs. This video has affirmed my observations about my own sourdough starter. Thank you, I hope you continue with these videos as we cannot visit your bakeries personally. I would like to learn the pastry dough recipes. and pizza dough.
Thanks for this knowledge drop Jon. Your ability to explain complex concepts with your extensive experience is miraculous. Appreciate you and your team. Thank you.
I started a soudrough starter in 2020 like everyone else and that's how I found your channel... I have two sarters, Thing 2 and Surbury Sour, though a year later after rescuing Sudbury Sour from the in-laws' refrigerator after I forgot it there for 6 months, thye're usually pretty similar in taste and activity. I think the way I do mine has been called the scraings method. One thing I learned is that I am a very not consistent person, so I've adapted my sourdough starter and my usual bread to accommodate for that. I like making sourdough starter pancakes, so that's one of the reasons I keep two starters, so I can do bread and pancake the same day if I want. I usually put the jars back in the fridge after dumping them out into whatever I'm making, when both are empty I will feed them, leave them on the counter a couple hours till they get active, then refrigerate them in the middle of that. And if I let it go too long and it's retracted, well, it still makes good bread, I just might need to leave it a little longer to develop after I'm done with stretch-folds before I toss it in the fridge. If I know for sure that I'm making bread or pancake the next day I'll feed them and leave them on the counter overnight and they're good to go. I don't get a lot of difference in the bread whether I use it cold-paused or if it's a fresh ferment at peak activity. I'm sure if I kept mine at room temp and baked with them optimally, I'd get more consistent results, but I'm used to making adjustments, so even if I can't know how long it's going to take, I don't really need to the way you do if you're timing things or if you're a commercial operation. My takeaways from four years of ignoring my starter till I need it and getting the timing wrong on the loaves are that any starter you would other discard makes great pancakes, even a starter past its prime still works, overfermented bread makes great english muffins, and the refrigerator is the great equalizer when you're a bit scatterbrained. And if I've left the starter alone too long, I need to leave it on the counter, feed it, and eat pancakes for a couple days till it's just roaring again.
@@barrychambers4047 Yeah, I never measure the amount of starter I start with when I feed, it's just whatever's left in the jar after I dump it into my dough bowl. On other soudrough channels I've seen it called the scrapings method cause all the starter you've got left is the scrapings left in the jar.
Well done video. Thank you for making it! Do you think the culture itself could impact vitality? Are purchased starters likely any better than home DIY starters? Is there a good vigorous starter you can reliably purchase?
Thank you for the excellent starter tutorial! Jeffrey Hamelman, author of the book "Bread", recommends to use all-purpose flour for feeding starter as it has the most available starch. What do you think about the Detmolder Methods?
Thank you for this excellent review on the starter lifecycle. I myself like to use starter made from wholegrain rye. Would you say this reacts te same as your wholgrain wheat starter?
I use the Vanessa Kimbel method by taking 40gr of active starter mixed with 50gr strong white flour and 50gr organic rye flour, and 90gr warm water. Mix and leave 8 hours. I get growth, activity and it makes a great loaf.
I just keep my starter scrapings in the jar in the fridge. When I need it I feed it a day before with 60g water that has stood for 24 hours. Then shake the jar so that the scrapings dissolve in the water for 5 minutes. Then I add 60g of flour and mix it. About 12 hours later the starter is active and ready to mix all of it into the dough. I then put the scrapings back into a closed jar into the fridge when I need it again in a week or two. No feeding is required till then. Works every time.
I like keeping the smallest possible starter I can, that way I'm not gonna be cheap on the feedings, and go pretty much peak to peak. I bulk it up to whatever size I need before baking.
I keep 3 half pint jars of 30 grams each starter in the fridge because I'm terrified of messing up a recipe and losing my only starter. The night before, I make enough leaven for a loaf of bread plus 10 extra grams. I use cold water so it's more than doubled by morning but has not retracted. My house is 69 at night. Next day, I make the dough, put the 10 extra grams in a fresh half pint jar, add 10 grams of flour, 10 grams of water and set it in the oven (oven off, light on) with the dough to do its thing. When the new starter is doubled, I put it in the fridge 'at the end of the line' so that I constantly rotate the half pint jars of starter which live in the vegetable bin. It always smells delicious, and I don't waste any flour via discard. I have not had any issues with foamy quality or banana smell doing this and my bread is awesome and rises beautifully.
Can you do the same thing with your bread dough? Let it rise to its peak, then put it in the refrigerator until you're ready to shape and bake it. I had to do this today with my dough for breadsticks, because I don't have time to bake it right now. I will see how it turns out.
On day 5 with my sour dough starter…in three separate jars with the following initial flour ratios: 100% bread flour in one, 50% bread flour/50% whole wheat flour, and the third 100% whole wheat flour. For feeding them, I use only bread flour (King Arthur). The past 2 days all three starters are departing a bit-liquid moving to the top. Not sure what is wrong. I’m certain that I’m mixing them well when feeding them each day (25 grams each of flour and 20-25 grams of 75-85 degree Fahrenheit filtered water. Also, the one that started as 100% bread flour smells really funky…the one that began as 100% whole wheat flour just smells like yeasty bear. Oh, almost forgot, I just covered each with a lid and leave them out on the counter.
Refrigerate if you want to slow down fermentation, keep at room temperature if you want to accelerate the fermentation process. From a home perspective the fridge makes a ton of sense to have in your toolbox, otherwise you will become a slave to your starter. Plus, you will probably produce a lot of discard.
@@ProofBread Thank you for your kind response! I am inclined to go the refrigerator route, but then how do I set up a feeding schedule? I.e. how often should I take it out and refresh it?
@@ProofBread thank you for the reply. Really appreciate it. How you overcome the acidic if it stay in the fridge about 16 hours? I like to make sourdough pizza but still i have'nt the clue to get rid most of the acid. I use fridge btw
@@ProofBread because the acid is to strong and not what i hope in the final product. I prefer mild but i haven't yet figured it out how to make the pizza with mild acid. I always thaught that the profile my levain / sourdough have is affected the final product. Maybe my room temperature is high around 30 - 32 C so i always ended up with the sour taste because i lived in asia. I will try your advice, hope its the solution that what i always search
Ive always dreamt of baking sourdough but my starters never have enough yeast. I got sourdough starter from my collegue and it ran out of yeast after 2 feedings...
Yes, that is the rhythm we use in our bakeries and will yield the strongest results, but it does require a fair amount of maintenance and may not be totally practical for a home baker.
Not necessary. You may simply alter your water temperature to compensate for the cold starter. It will become more active in the dough due to the warmer temperature.
Took me over a month to get a starter going had to buy brand name flowers supermarket brand all purpose flour I don't know what it is but I don't think it's flower💥💥🍔🍻🐿️
Technically the flour in a sourdough starter is no longer raw. It is fermented by the sourdough starter. It is true that by tasting sourdough starter, you’re consuming live microbes so do what you think is best. As a baker, it’s important to use all of your senses. This is the only true way to attain mastery in this craft.
@@ProofBread Colorado State University would disagree with this. I could give you a link if you'd like but it's easy to find. I'm about 30 years in with sourdough and have tasted starter, but haven't for years.
My grandfather created sourdough starter in early 1940s. He then bought a Bakery in North Bay of SF. The Bakery starter is still winning awards 90 years later. My Sicilian great grandfather kept a family tradition of their young men heirs creating a cheese starter before loosing their virginity. The creation method is left for private discussion. However traditionally thereafter it's used to create cheeses throughout the mans life. Then buried with him. I keep mine to Burrata and fresh Mozzarella. And only served to my sexual partners
I love this guy! He’s brilliant in business and passion. Thank you for showing us not only how to make bread but live life…conquer pitfalls…look ahead…never give up…etc etc. Just an amazing person.
This is such a gift, thank you for the instruction, your channel is amazing!!!
GOAT sourdough channel. Thank you.
This is beyond the "simple as it gets" explanation most sour dough starts are shown. Now I understand what to look for in taste and how to produce and keep a specific sour dough flavor profile that suits me and my baking schedule. Bonus info, if my baking schedule changes, how to change the sour dough starter's schedule to match my new schedule and still keep my preferred flavor profile. Thx for filming this and sharing it with us.
He is a brilliant baker! Kudos to him and Polish parents! I’m a sourdough aficionado , but I never pay attention to exact measurements. Let’s say I’m on friendly terms with my starter. 😍I’m trying to maintain that relationship and my starter never ceases to amaze me .
This explanation is the first time I understood the value in baking with a starter that is at optimal peak vs. keeping my starter in the fridge and using it cold to bake with.
Thank you!!!
First time hearing you. This was extremely helpful. And, Im going to start tasting my starter now. Very educational. Thank you!
Yay thanks for taking the time to share this with us. It is so appreciated,
I just spent two weeks getting my sourdough starter going. I'm feeding it daily, and this morning, I was happy with the consistency of the results, knowing it was doing its thing, but it seemed over-acidic. This Video was perfect for me to know the holding temp and food provided were off, how I can get it going to be ready, and what to expect. THANK YOU!!
My sourdough starter has been with me for 20 years. I'm a home baker and have been getting good results with it. This excellent video shows me some of the subtle timing and ingredient differences that can affect my results. Learning how to put this info into practice is going to keep me busy for a few months, if not longer. Thank you!
BTW, My wife and I were fortunate enough to visit your Mesa bakery last November. As soon as we walked in the door, we were very, very, impressed with display of breads and other items.
I hope your efforts result in a huge success for your business and you personally.
Jon, i have been following you since you were in the garage...I've learned so much about my sourdough starter over these years and have improved my sourdough making skills significantly. I am glad to see you address the home bakers needs. This video has affirmed my observations about my own sourdough starter. Thank you, I hope you continue with these videos as we cannot visit your bakeries personally. I would like to learn the pastry dough recipes. and pizza dough.
I appreciate you soooooo much!! Thank you for sharing your incredible information.
Never get tired watching his videos
Thanks for this knowledge drop Jon. Your ability to explain complex concepts with your extensive experience is miraculous. Appreciate you and your team. Thank you.
I started a soudrough starter in 2020 like everyone else and that's how I found your channel... I have two sarters, Thing 2 and Surbury Sour, though a year later after rescuing Sudbury Sour from the in-laws' refrigerator after I forgot it there for 6 months, thye're usually pretty similar in taste and activity. I think the way I do mine has been called the scraings method.
One thing I learned is that I am a very not consistent person, so I've adapted my sourdough starter and my usual bread to accommodate for that. I like making sourdough starter pancakes, so that's one of the reasons I keep two starters, so I can do bread and pancake the same day if I want.
I usually put the jars back in the fridge after dumping them out into whatever I'm making, when both are empty I will feed them, leave them on the counter a couple hours till they get active, then refrigerate them in the middle of that. And if I let it go too long and it's retracted, well, it still makes good bread, I just might need to leave it a little longer to develop after I'm done with stretch-folds before I toss it in the fridge. If I know for sure that I'm making bread or pancake the next day I'll feed them and leave them on the counter overnight and they're good to go. I don't get a lot of difference in the bread whether I use it cold-paused or if it's a fresh ferment at peak activity.
I'm sure if I kept mine at room temp and baked with them optimally, I'd get more consistent results, but I'm used to making adjustments, so even if I can't know how long it's going to take, I don't really need to the way you do if you're timing things or if you're a commercial operation.
My takeaways from four years of ignoring my starter till I need it and getting the timing wrong on the loaves are that any starter you would other discard makes great pancakes, even a starter past its prime still works, overfermented bread makes great english muffins, and the refrigerator is the great equalizer when you're a bit scatterbrained. And if I've left the starter alone too long, I need to leave it on the counter, feed it, and eat pancakes for a couple days till it's just roaring again.
Scrapings method?
@@barrychambers4047 Yeah, I never measure the amount of starter I start with when I feed, it's just whatever's left in the jar after I dump it into my dough bowl. On other soudrough channels I've seen it called the scrapings method cause all the starter you've got left is the scrapings left in the jar.
Thank you!
You have given me a lot to think about in my sourdough journey. Thank you. 🙏
Thanks Jon, for sharing your depth of knowledge. You also proved to us you take your probiotics :)
Amazing info and explanations. What do you think about using the young starter and then pushing the dough fermentation closer to over proof?
Well done video. Thank you for making it! Do you think the culture itself could impact vitality? Are purchased starters likely any better than home DIY starters? Is there a good vigorous starter you can reliably purchase?
It would be good to understand the effect of using sprouted grain flours on sourdough development. Maybe you could show us viewers this in the future?
Great video! Please make more of them to the home baker.
Great insight and education. TY
Thanks for this. It was very informative!!!
cheers from Seattle
Thank you for the excellent starter tutorial! Jeffrey Hamelman, author of the book "Bread", recommends to use all-purpose flour for feeding starter as it has the most available starch.
What do you think about the Detmolder Methods?
Thank you for this excellent review on the starter lifecycle. I myself like to use starter made from wholegrain rye. Would you say this reacts te same as your wholgrain wheat starter?
Finally some good videos.
will you guys ever publish a book with some recipes? kind of like tartine bakery did.
I use the Vanessa Kimbel method by taking 40gr of active starter mixed with 50gr strong white flour and 50gr organic rye flour, and 90gr warm water. Mix and leave 8 hours.
I get growth, activity and it makes a great loaf.
Great information Jon!
I just keep my starter scrapings in the jar in the fridge. When I need it I feed it a day before with 60g water that has stood for 24 hours. Then shake the jar so that the scrapings dissolve in the water for 5 minutes. Then I add 60g of flour and mix it. About 12 hours later the starter is active and ready to mix all of it into the dough. I then put the scrapings back into a closed jar into the fridge when I need it again in a week or two. No feeding is required till then. Works every time.
I like keeping the smallest possible starter I can, that way I'm not gonna be cheap on the feedings, and go pretty much peak to peak. I bulk it up to whatever size I need before baking.
Any chance you sell your Proof Bread sourdough discard? I'm sure home bakers like myself would love to buy and support!
You can buy their starter at the bakery, not cheap, something like $30 I believe
I keep 3 half pint jars of 30 grams each starter in the fridge because I'm terrified of messing up a recipe and losing my only starter.
The night before, I make enough leaven for a loaf of bread plus 10 extra grams. I use cold water so it's more than doubled by morning but has not retracted. My house is 69 at night.
Next day, I make the dough, put the 10 extra grams in a fresh half pint jar, add 10 grams of flour, 10 grams of water and set it in the oven (oven off, light on) with the dough to do its thing.
When the new starter is doubled, I put it in the fridge 'at the end of the line' so that I constantly rotate the half pint jars of starter which live in the vegetable bin.
It always smells delicious, and I don't waste any flour via discard.
I have not had any issues with foamy quality or banana smell doing this and my bread is awesome and rises beautifully.
Assuming I have a really active starter at room temp, how much do I use for a 200gm water 330 gm strong white flour, loaf - many thanks (UK fan)
Thank you.
Can you do the same thing with your bread dough? Let it rise to its peak, then put it in the refrigerator until you're ready to shape and bake it. I had to do this today with my dough for breadsticks, because I don't have time to bake it right now. I will see how it turns out.
On day 5 with my sour dough starter…in three separate jars with the following initial flour ratios: 100% bread flour in one, 50% bread flour/50% whole wheat flour, and the third 100% whole wheat flour. For feeding them, I use only bread flour (King Arthur). The past 2 days all three starters are departing a bit-liquid moving to the top. Not sure what is wrong. I’m certain that I’m mixing them well when feeding them each day (25 grams each of flour and 20-25 grams of 75-85 degree Fahrenheit filtered water. Also, the one that started as 100% bread flour smells really funky…the one that began as 100% whole wheat flour just smells like yeasty bear. Oh, almost forgot, I just covered each with a lid and leave them out on the counter.
Couldn’t be more clear! Except I’m still not entirely sure whether to regularly refrigerate or just keep starters ambient (84°+-).
Refrigerate if you want to slow down fermentation, keep at room temperature if you want to accelerate the fermentation process. From a home perspective the fridge makes a ton of sense to have in your toolbox, otherwise you will become a slave to your starter. Plus, you will probably produce a lot of discard.
@@ProofBread
Thank you for your kind response! I am inclined to go the refrigerator route, but then how do I set up a feeding schedule? I.e. how often should I take it out and refresh it?
How long you keep the starter in the fridge until your feed it again in daily use?
At the bakery our standard is about 16 hours, but we don’t allow any backup discard to go beyond 3 days.
@@ProofBread thank you for the reply. Really appreciate it. How you overcome the acidic if it stay in the fridge about 16 hours? I like to make sourdough pizza but still i have'nt the clue to get rid most of the acid. I use fridge btw
Simply refresh it and use it young (like after 4 hours) if that is your goal. Why do you want to get rid of the acid out of curiosity?
@@ProofBread because the acid is to strong and not what i hope in the final product. I prefer mild but i haven't yet figured it out how to make the pizza with mild acid. I always thaught that the profile my levain / sourdough have is affected the final product. Maybe my room temperature is high around 30 - 32 C so i always ended up with the sour taste because i lived in asia. I will try your advice, hope its the solution that what i always search
Do I really need a rye starter for 100% rye bread. Wouldn’t a bread flour starter raise rye bread the same as a white loaf.
Ive always dreamt of baking sourdough but my starters never have enough yeast. I got sourdough starter from my collegue and it ran out of yeast after 2 feedings...
Are you saying that you feed 2x during the day, fridge overnight, and use in bread the next day?
Yes, that is the rhythm we use in our bakeries and will yield the strongest results, but it does require a fair amount of maintenance and may not be totally practical for a home baker.
@@ProofBread Thanks for answering! One last question, do you bring the starter to RT in the morning, or when do you decide it is ready?
Not necessary. You may simply alter your water temperature to compensate for the cold starter. It will become more active in the dough due to the warmer temperature.
starter is working good now it's overflowing the jar💥💥🍔🍻🐿️
Supermarket flower before the pandemic my starters would rise in the refrigerator
Top
👍👏
Wouldn’t eating starter introduce candidiasis in your gut
Took me over a month to get a starter going had to buy brand name flowers supermarket brand all purpose flour I don't know what it is but I don't think it's flower💥💥🍔🍻🐿️
I had a power outage lost my sourdough starter I was away during the power outage
My starter smells of fresh paint
The CDC recommends against tasting raw flour. This is a good video, but I'd suggest skipping the tasting part.
Technically the flour in a sourdough starter is no longer raw. It is fermented by the sourdough starter. It is true that by tasting sourdough starter, you’re consuming live microbes so do what you think is best. As a baker, it’s important to use all of your senses. This is the only true way to attain mastery in this craft.
@@ProofBread Colorado State University would disagree with this. I could give you a link if you'd like but it's easy to find. I'm about 30 years in with sourdough and have tasted starter, but haven't for years.
My grandfather created sourdough starter in early 1940s. He then bought a Bakery in North Bay of SF. The Bakery starter is still winning awards 90 years later.
My Sicilian great grandfather kept a family tradition of their young men heirs creating a cheese starter before loosing their virginity. The creation method is left for private discussion. However traditionally thereafter it's used to create cheeses throughout the mans life. Then buried with him.
I keep mine to Burrata and fresh Mozzarella. And only served to my sexual partners
I need your cheese!