8v71 engine disassembly. pt 1 way worse than we thought
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2021
- Lance stopped by to help tear down the engine in his 4016 today. Miss budwiser was brought in for an oil leak that was determined to be from internal engine damage.
/ indianadiesel 
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Most of the knowledgeable guys that knew these engines are retired or passed away. It’s an amazing testimony to these engines that they out lived two generations that kept them running. Glad you’re standing in the gap and keeping them going.
Working a Detroit, let alone old school Cummins like the 335 (I think it’s a part of the NT series engines, open to correction, a CAT V-8, or a MACK Econodyne engine are quickly becoming a lost art. Thankfully in a hundred years from now that future mechanic can pull up these videos up and get a good idea of what to do
@@jonathansparks3386 Not really... anyone that is mechanically inclined, has a manual and is motivated can work on one... they aren't that complex.
I drove 4106 for a living a long time ago and it really was a Corvette of busses. It was my favorite.
The 4106’s were a well built bus, Continental Trailways had very few of them, mostly Silver Eagles and Golden Eagles, but Carolina Trailways out of Raleigh NC had a whole fleet of them.
G'day Tyler,
Kevin here from Australia.
Very interesting video. Lance is one who should do a live chat with yourself and your dad. The three of you combined would make fantastic entertainment.
Very knowledgeable .
Anyhoo stay safe and healthy guys.
✌ Peace
Story time with Lance is great. Maybe he can do more videos with his vast knowledge.
That would be nice, as he can explain things really well and as you say he has a ton of knowledge.
When I saw the first BGM video's with Lance he appeared to be a somewhat grumpy guy who didn't talk much. I guess he's one of those guys who has to get to know you to open up.
I think i know what lance was referring to, back in the early 70's dad drove for trailways and later grayline there was a story about a driver that had a speeding ticket framed on the wall of his house for doing 102mph in a 4104 out on us41. Back in those days drivers would run deadhead back from Tampa to Miami, with only mail in the bays the bus was light and would haul ass. Iirc you would lift up on the break a click or 2 and trip the high idle feature and bypass the speed governor. The high idle was there for the aircon while in the terminal picking up passengers. Wish i could verify the story more but dad passed a couple years ago.
I believe you are corect.
Where was your dad based out of when he drove for Trailways, I worked for Trailways from 1974 to 1988 in Charlotte, NC as a mechanic.
You are correct.
The fast idle was only meant to operate with the park brake on.
If lifted the park brake handle about one or two clicks, it would allow the fast idle to engage. However there is a clamping cylinder on the top of the governor that is supposed lock the throttle linkage in the idle position.
If the throttle lever is not locked in place with fast idle on, you had an engine without a govenor if you moved the throttle lever.
The trick was to be pushing down the throttle, pull up the hand brake lever about two clicks and turn on the fast idle.
The piston from the clamping cylinder would come out but would not be able to lock the throttle because it would go right by it instead of pinning it at idle.
@@sidallen685 as far as i know Miami
Wow Tyler, it’s so obvious you know your stuff. It was amazing in some of your previous videos where you pull up in your truck to fix a broken down piece of equipment on site. The next thing I knew you would have it running and you were so young but you knew your stuff. Now on Lances bus you start a methodical tear down and don’t blink an eye about it, you just do it - a man of action and your type is needed more than ever in this country.
This was a great video. Thanks Tyler, BGM and Lance. Hey, Lance, thanks for the background info on the 4106 and the engine design and performance tweaking, that was super interesting. And the F16 is one of my favorite jets. Cheers!
I second that.
Tyler you've come a long way with your mechanics ability I am glad to see you at the bgm ranch with your dad, pretty solid f ok and there with the odd compression per cylinder and the weird scoring on the sleeves to the mutilated head surfaces I'm impressed that it even ran at all we sent a 350 Cummins to a shop to have a full rebuild once and within 45 minutes the mechanic was calling us and.asking who did the previous rebuild on it. We went to his shop and he pulled the oil pan off and there was left over main bearing pieces in the oil pan and there were cracks all throughout the heads.... pride and workmanship are a rare thing these days...
Hi all, OK, Just a short note, but, I have learned everything I know - so far- about Detroit diesels just by watching your and dads videos.. I`m not even a truck mechanic but an ex aero parts maker now aged 73 and still learning - thanks for the videos.. Ian - UK.
Great video I love hearing lance share is thoughts and knowledge with us. Would love to hear more fromlance on his thoughts and knowledge about buses and DD's. Tyler you have come a long way since I first started watching your videos. Keep up the great work buddy!!
Fun fact for Lance. My grandfather. Bill Rowland wrote the repair manuals for the f16s he worked on. 25 years at General Dynamics.
if the person who did the head touched the rest of the motor, you almost have to tear it down just to check everything. love yalls content. thank you
Thanks for your service lance! . Enjoyed your story about f16!
I have a 1964 4106 I have had this bus for 28 years been everywhere in the us . I would like to send you pictures. You are truly one of the last bus guys 👍
Thanks for explaining what your doing as you break down the engine my Friend
Love the tare down / rebuild videos and always the bus history is interesting.
Seeing that gaffed up head is just a reminder of where we are as a nation these days. It's hard to find anyone that can flip a hamburger correctly let alone do proper machine work.
You get paid the same whether you do it right or not.
Absolutely why i work alone
Absolutely 💯
Maybe if we hadn't stopped teaching shop class in high schools.
@@macelius.
Absolutely.
Thank God lots of high schools are bringing them back using special grant money.
Getting voters to approve bonds to fund programs like those is pulling hens teeth.
Short sighted ignoRANTce.
Especially now with an entire trained workforce retiring or dying off.
I love that the PBS show This Old House has started a mentor program that has young people learning every trade needed to rehab an old house.
You can catch episodes on the Pluto TV app along with the Ask This Old House show.
Even at my age with experience restoring the 100 hundred year old farm house growing up we moved into in 1960 when I was 6 I've learned some real handy DYI tricks.
I have limited experience with turbine engines so to everybody who responded to my questions earlier thank you very much !!
I spent 4 years in the United States Marine corps servicing uh-1n Huey helicopters !!! They were a twin engine gas turbine helicopter , I have just never heard of a turbin engine being referred to as a radial
I meant to say turbine when explaining - I was just a little light headed from all the instant weight I lost from my wallet this week 🤪
@@LanceDammeyer its ok i figured it was a slip of the tongue.
Hey Lance at least when this motor goes back together you know it’ll be 100% right! These two blokes take great pride in Thier work, great to see! 🇦🇺🍺🍺🍺🍺
Enjoy watching you work. Keep them videos coming.
Hey Tyler, I like the way you do your channel. Between you and your dad I watch alot
As one who tried to keep up with a Dog one night I can attest to the 90 + MPH speed. There is an old truckers song that says something to the effect that god before I go please let me pass one Greyhound bus
I sometimes wonder what if some old trucker thinks "did I just see a derelict ghost bus?" when i pass him at night.
@@macelius Headed south out of Alb in the 70s, 67 Mustang 2 barrel 289 with 2.80 gears in the rear 4 gear foot flat on the floor and that damn dog just kept pulling away. Driver was on the CB egging me on
Love the way you bag all the bolts, nuts and other small parts to individual components.
We used to do that when we did engine and rotor transmission changes on Coast Guard Sikorsky HH52a SeaGuard amphibious helos and Engines changes on Grumman HU16e Albatross seaplanes.
In fact ant system emwe tore down for whatever reason
We also took before pictures to reference when we'd reassemble them.
No fancy video cameras back then. I actually began doing it on small Engines, cars and motorcycles as a teen but those weren't zip lock bags so I sealed them with rubber bands.
Can't wait for the next video
Hey Lance! Your story of the second notch reminded me of a story told to me 60 years ago by a Greyhound driver. The way the story went, as I remember, was that you could let off on the throttle to relieve the tension on the transmission gears and ease the shifter toward neutral to disengage the governor and away you'd go. He said that one bus he drove must have had forth gear so worn in this almost neutral position that it was almost like shifting into another gear.
These are memories from my preteen years so take them for what they are worth.
Thinking about it now might it have had a maximum speed limiter engaged by the shift linkage independent of the engine governor?
I know both his sons know Detroit’s. It’s so awesome they will take dads trade into the future, past my time and God willing, his. I knew a USAF jet mechanic. He got me into the test cell and the engine shakes you to your core. Only good news is Miss Budweiser will have a fresh engine when they are done.
Remember G.M. owned Allison air- craft engines from 1929-1995.The Allison automatic transmission came out during WW2 . G.M. built the buses for Greyhound with the large endless pit of money that the dog had at that time Freightliner also had a truck with a Cummins diesel en- gine with guick dis- connects that could be changed in a short amount of time. This engine looks like no one had any knowledge of a two stroke or did not care. As I have said in other video replies, the Eagles used to blow by and many truck- ers would wonder what was the power in them. The ten speed spicer had a lot to do with it.
100% agree with you Tyler on fix problem before you put it back together and fix what is starting to fail before it becomes a bigger issue
Looks like the surface on the last reman exchange head I got from the Cat house, good help is hard to find, they did make it good with a two week turn around.
What I use to do, when I was in high school and a parent's garage mechanic, I would take pictures of what I was tearing down. That's when Polaroid cameras were popular. I still did the way your doing the bagging and marking.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Totally agree, the head was buffued with a sanding disc.
Back in the day when we use to work on DD’s, we would pull off intake and leave the screen on blower, and then wipe screen with varsol rag and duct tape so no foreign matter can get in blower.
I was screaming no don’t pull that screen/gasket up when he started pulling it up. When I was just starting to work on cars and trucks in my mid teens my first mentor drove it into my head (sometimes with a slap to the back of my head) that anytime you opened an engine up starting with removing the air cleaner you put something be it a clean rag that you taped down, a pice of card that you taped in place, or a plastic cap, etc you always put something over an open engine to prevent FOD (Foreign Objects or Debris) from getting into the engine. As for the surface of the cylinder head my bet is some idjit used a “body grinder” (air powered pistol grip grinder “body-men” commonly use to prep panels for plug welding etc.) to remove the old gasket in the days before scotch-brite oatmeal cookies, plastic finger wheels etc or they were just to lazy to take the time to hand scrape the.surface. Many years ago I discovered a carbide edged gasket scraper by Innovative Tools International called the “Super Scraper” and between using a properly sharpened gasket scraper from MAC or Snap-on and Super Scraper you can with a little practical cleaner a cylinder head as fast as using die grinder and Scotch-Brite oatmeal cookies etc and you not buying the “oatmeal cookies” quickly pays for the Super Scraper and the saves you money plus almost eliminates (unless you are an Idjit) the chance to damage the surface you are cleaning.
@@gullreefclub my gasket scraper is the only tool strap on sells thats worth the cash
@@gullreefclub The Super Scraper is fantastic. I have one of the originals but I noticed just about every tool truck now carries them under the truck brand or Lisle.
So sad to see that engine in that condition. I'll definitely be following this build. Mine is still at CPS 3-weeks now. They've removed the head and sent it to Richards and waiting on the results if they can repair it or exchange for a Reliabilt replacement head. Since I didn't have the issue of pressure in the coolant tank prior to six pack injector replacement, I think I know what is wrong but will hold off that thought pending what Richards finds. As CPS refused to replace the injector cups as I requested back in Feb with injector replacements, I believe they incorrectly installed injector tip carbon seals wrong if they even installed them at all, and/or the oversized injector o-rings.
I used to build those engines with my eyes closed simple engines. I love those old Detroit I made a living for 21 years on them, but I worked on yachts.no dirty trucks.
Check that little link where the rack rods connect to in the governor carefully. We had issues with our 6V92 with the vertical pivot shaft. The needle bearings in the link had worn grooves in the pivot shaft and gave sloppy motion cutting down the amount of motion of our rack reducing ower. We found lots of lost motion in all the throttle linkages in our cab-over Volvo-White truck. Made for lower power and difficulty getting the HT754 to shift properly as the RPMs of the engine were too low. Once we rebuilt all the linkages and adjusted the travels things got much better. We probably should have replaced the link, shaft, and needle bearings but it ran ok with the other fixes. I was afraid of losing needles into the interior of the governor and where ever else they may have ended up.
I have learned through experience that the cleanest, eat off the floor shops will gaslight you about repairs. One i remember was about the internal oil pump was bad. I knew it was external. Turned down their offer to repair. Turned out it wasn't even oil pump related. It was a bad oil filter that collapsed internally. $5 bucks vs. who knows how much . Your right Tyler, some have no pride or ethics in their occupation.
Lookin’ good, Tyler
Excellent video!
This is kind of like what @dangermarine found before Adrian went through his 4-71.
wow it is sad to see things like that head.
i know some old timers liked to let marks like that on heads thinking it helped to seal things up but i am happy to know most of those old timers can do this kind of crap any more.
My dad used to talk about taking a panel up and using a vice grip on the linkage.don’t remember what that was but the extra speed trick sounds familiar it sure on how. Dad drove from early 50’s to early 70’s then worked in the credit union a while. Can’t ask he’s been gone 40 years at this point
Fascinating video
I've seen broken pieces of rings go through the airbox into the next cylinder. Good luck adjusting the rack in chassis. Busses suck to work on. The most important part of cylinder head sealing is fire rings and the figure 8 gaskets. I've run across many a gouged out head that still gave many a mile of service.
Looks like the heads that come out of my schools engine machining course. It’s amazing how easy it is to screw up decking job if you don’t look at what the dials are telling you
OOOHHH, WATCH OUT WHEN YOU PULL THAT HEAD OFF , SNAKES MIGHT JUMP OUT AT YA .
I use to work on those engines back in 82 - 83 at the GMC heavy truck dealer , when there still was such a thing . still have all the specialty tools for working on those engines .
was at a International dealer earlier this year , the young guys were sharp , and I told them that if you worked here back in the 70's and 80's you would be working on 2stroke DETROIT / CUMMINS / OR CAT / in these CORN BINDERS . when I said 2 stroke Detroit , THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I HAD 4 HEADS . HA HA HA HA . GOOD VIDEO , KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK . THE MACK GUY
Man you sound and look like your father ,GOD bless
Those Greyhound "super-tuned" 8v71s are probably all but gone. Only 4106 I've seen that still had the old oval-inspection cover 'dry-block' was mine, most all seem to have been swapped over to the newer style blocks once those came out in the 70s.
let us not forget just how FAR that engine went with the bad machining on the head lol..
Got a nice Injector burn pattern
A Screaming Demon and and a F16 engine have the same traits. Fuel in, smoke and noise out.
We had Clark Diesel here in Louisville that worked on Detroit Diesel engines
You'd also thank yourself to cover the valve train when working directly above. Not a dig, just a hard lesson learned.
I'm learning a lot for my someday event of getting a bus 😅
That is for sure, these are really COOL videos that teach us entertain us and we get to see some great people. Thanks for taking us along.
Nice story telling Lance, is it correct that the injectors on 3 and 4 are not the same protrusion, the fire pattern looks different, are you checking the injector protrusion like in "Setting up a detroit diesel 71 series head". Be safe.
Somebody's pride was left on the wash-room floor when they put that engine together. Tyler was hoping to re-arrange their attitude glands, and I can't blame him in the least
Unknown factor, budget and relationship with mechanic and person paying the bills....
He kept referring to an F-16 having a radial engine? In my mind when you say radial engine I'm thinking world war II piston engine and a F-16 would have a jet engine??
Radial turbine vs. axial turbine.
Multi spool radial turbine.
Yup! Axial flow! It bothered me a bit until I listened a bit closer.
I misspoke and meant axial turbine - think I explained it out somehow ... maybe...lol
That's one heck of up trusting mechanic if you need anything my tool Box is open.
I used to do that at work (electronic tools) and seldom had a problem.
He was talking to Lance, his Boss & his Dad's best friend!
@@proehm Me Too! I had so many damn sockets And wrenches go missing I started locking my Box.
Vice Grip 1 grit surface prep 😀
Wow going 70mph at 1900rpm with 2-3lb radiator pressure. That badboy was a corvette of hauling engines. does any modern bigrig today match that? i know new in 2019 new volve truck rig day cabs were $100,000 +. Saw several customer come pick them up and stop by my old job for fuel and snacks.
For the rest of America Bus & Industrial DD crowd.....engines of all age & size....all points N,S,E,W...."American Fleet Service" in Springfield, Mo are the "Who's Who" of & for Great DD finess! See Bob. What a Team!
Mystery's @ the BGM Ranch very cool, rebuild should be very interesting ! Keep up the great work !
First!! It makes me mad when people do crap work with no pride! Thanks!!
It makes all of us mad.
How hard would it be to remove the entire engine/trans assembly without the craddle? I hate working in confined spaces. The older you get the less flexible you become.
Great video guys, it's a shame that so many people do not take pride in what they do. I was always brought up in that whatever you do, do it as your best. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Having been around Cummins engines of the same vintage it always amazed me the few times i was ever inside of a detroit 2 cycle as to how they lasted as long as they did. But on the other side of it when it came to V8s Detroits could make the power and torque with a longer stroke than either of the cummins or cats v8s of the times did .There is no question that the 2-cycle uniflow diesel engine design is more efficient than a 4-stroke and has a higher power to weight ratio.... the biggest, most efficient engines in the world are all 2-cycle. (EMD, Wartsila-Sulzer, etc) But unfortunately Detroit did little to improve the design of these engines over the years. Computer modeling to fine tune cam and port timing, electronic common-rail injection, modern materials and tolerances, etc. and the 2-cycle Detroit could have kept up rather than fall by the wayside.
The inherent design limitations of the two cycle engine could not keep up with the changing emission standards. There’s only so much that could be done to tweak emissions. It’s ironic, that these engines were discontinued in the search for low emission engine designs that did not require add-on controls. Since the industry was eventually forced to use add-on emission controls, these engines could still be sold today. With HUEI , common rail and DDEC they would still be a great engine.
sweet looking old Prevost on the pad. Can't wait to see that.
The purple bus is not a prevost on the pad.
RTS bus. GMC design.
it has bin standing still with water on the cijlinders
Looking at the tops of the pistons looks as if the firing pattern is good
I would build them in my shop paint them pretty snow, white I face every gasket surface. I would never have a leak out of them. my customer telling me he didn’t get his first leak for over two years.
Ooooh... was that a timelapse WITH a soundtrack? :)
@tylercrosbyisanobodyloser LMAO you are seriously obsessed.
Lance, I am a retired F-16 fixer also, I love your analogy to the F-16 ADG. It looks like the ADG on the 16 takes bigger wrenches but drives the same way. maybe an APU could be an engine replacement for a fast bus. LOL
What kind of hack put that engine together? Great job getting into it!
Looking at the carbon patterns on the different cylinders. You need to check the injector penetration into the cylinders. It maybe just the video but the patterns differ. Maybe the injectors. With how sloppy the head was setup could be all the above.
Is that evidence that the pistons were put in from the top of the liners?
How do you get the top head off with the tight space and heavy weight?
How do you put the bottom head on and keep the orings in place without studs? Must be a trick of the trade burried there!
@the Big Moose - Cut the head of four to six OEM head bolts, slot them gently with a thin.bladed angle grinder or a hacksaw and use a screwdriver to drive them down into the head - using them as guiding pins.
Remove one by one and replace with OEM head bolts when head are securely in place.
Be safe - live free. Blessings sent.
are you guys doing leakdown tests also? or just compression?
Lance talks about a Radial engine but he seems to be referring to a modern jet fighter. Do they consider jets Radial engines.
When I hear Radial I think of a piston engine with cylinders arranged around the crank.
If you guys need Joe that worked on your dad’s motor to come up there and work on lances let him set it up on the injectors and everything
Thank you for reading my comment I really appreciate it guys how about you fellas all the time and I drove those old coaches that your dad works on the city bus and charger for a road machine and I do have a working knowledge of what it is he’s doing there so once again thank you very much
That was really childish the way you ripped off the blower screen, risking debris dropping into the air space. A little heat and a stanley blade would have unstuck it from the casting and saved twenty minutes of scraping, again risking something getting into the blower air space.
And I guess you were a perfect mechanic…lmas!
Well, looks like whoever last rebuilt it didn't do a very good job. She'll be good went you guy's are done for sure. I agree with Lance with as many buses he has to get one on a frame ready to go as long as it's the same motor. It's a shame to see old parts not be saved for these old busses. Someone with allot of money, storage space and time needs to go out and collect them before being scrapped
Hi Tyler does Lance still have his MCI, I liked the older MCI’s when I worked at Trailways back in the 70’s in Charlotte, my favorite was the MCI-9. I still remember the first time I replaced a headlight on one, I didn’t realize the MCI’s were 24volt system’s …lol ya live and learn, the best method.
I’m about 1 hr north of Charlotte.
Was that Carolina Trailways? I thought they had Eagles back then
What’s with the reversed images? Is that a camera thing?
GM'S diesel works totally amazes me, they didn't mess around. I gotta place GM in the top 3 of diesel engines.
America was literally built with GM/Detroit Diesel power and that’s no exaggeration. From the interstate systems, skyscrapers, dams, bridges, etc Detroit was there.
Interesting.
I'm from Morocco I have 21 years of experience in engines I need to immigration how can I do it please?
Question for Detroit Diesel fans: It would appear that on the "V" engines, the fuel racks are equally adjusted for fuel delivery. Do you have to check for a richer, excessive, blackened exhaust on the rich bank side?
If you had very sensitive pyrometers to measure the exhaust gas temperatures from each cylinder, you would see the differences.
And that motor sounded so good?
Hard to believe, but yeah, it started first crank, didn't hunt, and ran smooth and with decent power. Can only imagine how much better it'll run once it's back to factory specs.
Take your time please. I want see everything. Thank you.
What injectors is he running in there?
N65
Hey Lance when you’re done with it it’s gonna look beautiful
LANCE IS THE BEST GUEST THAT U HAVE EVER HAD ON UR CHANNEL!!! I OFTEN WONDERED WHY U’ALL DIDN’T HAVE A CRADDEL LIKE LANCE IS GOING TO HAVE BUILT. TYLER U & SCOTT HAVE MADE A GREAT FRIEND IM SURE THAT THEIR ISN’T ANYTHING OR TOOL THAT U WILL NEED THAT HE WONT GET U TO MAKE UR JOB EASIER! ONCE THE SHOP IS DONE SCOTT SHOULD INVEST IN ONE OF THEM OR A FORKLIFT! U CAN HAVE ONE OF THEM ENGINES OUT IN :45-1:15 THEN U WILL BE ABLE TO GET TO EVERYTHING & WORK ON IT SO MUCH EASIER. CANNOT WAIT TO WATCH THE ENTIRE SERIES ON THIS REBUILD
The head condition is probably down to this not being a greyhound from factory, but being a private coach. The rebuild guys probably knew they could get away with it because it wasn't greyhound.
Why don't you show the blower coming off
Basically somebody took a wirebrush head and an air drill then wire brushed the head.
I cant tell you how many junk head mechanics i have seen to do something like this. Turn around and Fk an entire engine up when it was just better to leave the heads alone instead of not paying the cost to a machine shop to get the heads properly milled.
Whats the horsepower
318 hp
Does Lance have a you tube channel?
Not yet. Trying to get him to
Ok man, what does your arm tattoo say. I think it was the last video I saw it a bunch and still couldn't figure it out. It looks like Moab Abe? Or something to me. But that doesn't make any sense. Then sometimes it just looks like random symbols?
I know the one on your shoulder is the Detroit Diesel logo.
It's "come take" in ancient greek.
@@Spyke383 thanks. Now I no longer have to focus on that and try to figure out what it says the whole time.🤣🤣
@@natevanlandingham1945 until I add the next one lol
@@Spyke383 🤣🤣🤣🤦🤷🤣
Contact me if you need any Kentmore tools I have all my old tuneup tools liner loader, 71,92, 149 seal installer tools, brand new, set a tuneup tools untouched and my use ones. I always bought two of everything blower rebuild tool sets I would build all my own blowers, never trust, rely a junk
Often People Get robbed By Mechanics & Machine shops!! There should be a book that goes with ever engine. & All Vehicles! weather gas or diesel. Same as to every repairers made. This would be very sweat! Event (""crooks running shops "') Swapping parts and whole engines Would Be Liable For Changes! And sellers Put in Prison! Who "Claim a Legitimate Rebuilds! Locked out on a budget!! & after court! Must Hire An Attorney!! Costs Go Way Up! They Laugh!! Especially In A Family Owned Court! Beware!