God if THAT isn't another example of one side following "the process" and getting screwed because the side with power isn't afraid of executing that power with utter supremacy for its maximum benefit.
@@HomersIlliad I have to assume you're not implying that the Palestinians should ethnically cleanse themselves as a matter of convenience to Israeli colonizers.
@@christopherpoff4117 wait no maybe he's onto something, maybe if everyone just left that land no one would have to fight over it, maybe we could like flood it??? Palestinians, Israelis, everyone, off limits, now no one can play!
@@NMahon Okay well that's still taking land away from Palestinians and leaving them stateless. So no, that's hardly better than what the Israelis are doing.
This comment is the least nuanced thing I may have ever read. You think someone's a hypocrite for wanting people to oppose something (or "not standing for it") while at the same time wanting them to not murder innocent people the way anarchist protestors have? Literally children have one less parent because of the anarchists rioters, but yeah fuck the liberals for not wanting violence, man!
Don't know why we still even bother with presidential debates, the number of people whose minds were changed after hearing the candidates "espouse their views" in the "marketplace of ideas" is precisely zero
@@frosted3 I've actually seen a few people comment that they had been going to vote Green Party, until Trump's performance scared the h*ll out of them.
One of the few scenes I've seen from The West Wing is the guy from Cabin in the Woods demanding one of his employees to stop wearing her frivolous Star Trek pin (a show that has inspired countless people to do selfless and amazing things for the common good) because it doesn't belong in the workplace! Then he has a heart to heart with her about it. She wants to bring its values to what she does! But turns out he's a fan too, and he can (incorrectly) rattle off a ton of (incorrect) minutiae! Turns out he's inspired by it too! But you're not supposed to show off your childish interests in a serious workplace where people do serious work! What a stupid point to make in your very serious show about very serious leaders asking their employees to.... I don't know? Do the right thing but don't dream too big because that's childish?
Are you seriously telling me that they devoted actual screen time... to a discussion about a Star Trek pin? Like, people were being shoved into prison at an unprecedented rate for the shittiest "reasons" at the time that episode was being made, and that's the kind of "issue" they discussed? Libs are a different breed, I tell you
Or the fact that if you're having to subject yourself to the life of a wage you should be coming to work naked. Star Trek pins are neon liberal social democracies lol.
@@AmunDeus It's not a news show and it was about the character not adjusting well to having a new assistant and so picking on something frivolous. It was never treated as a good thing and even the character who was doing it walked it back by the end of the scene.
Yes that was a stupid plot and a waste of screen time. However you're misremembering it a little bit. He doesn't incorrectly rattle off incorrect minutiae to her. She basically tries to say she isn't "crazy" because she is an obsessive star trek fan. Josh basically says "I'm a fan too, but I don't do thinks like compare species X to Y, list my 500 least favorite episodes, list my 500 favorite LEAST favorite episodes, etc, and then do everything I just listed over and over again because that's not fandom. That's having a fetish." The conflict is framed as more "I asked a new employee to remove her star trek pin. OH NO! She's an extremist fan!" Again, I'm not saying that this was actually some elegantly written plot line in the show, and your point about why the woman in question should even be asked to remove her pin still stands. I'm just saying there is some additional context the interaction you described. And as weird as the sub plot was, the speech Josh gives about not getting too obsessive about your fandom is something I think about a lot these days given my ever growing frustration with the toxic and cyclical nature of a lot of modern fan bases.
The reason he asked her not to wear the pin was that in a place like the Whitehouse, it could be ridiculed by the press if it was known and seen as too informal by people visiting the place on business that an employee is wearing it, which is a legitimate concern, it's not personal just professional. Lol, people are misreading bits of this show all over this video, clearly they didn't watch it and see the actual context or anything
Maybe not economically. When it comes to the abstract ideas, Libertarian issues of culture (civil rights, feminism, LGBTQIA* acceptance) don't necessarily go along with anti-Capitalism.
When I was a kid wearing black got me accused of being a low-tier goth. This was false (there's no makeup, bling, or flair involved in my outfit). Now it gets me accused of being an anarchist. This is correct. Guess I'll keep wearing black.
When I was a kid, wearing black got me accused of worshiping Satan. At the time, they were right. As an adult, wearing black gets me high fives from guys who think I like Heavy Metal music. They are also right.
The problem with debate and arguments is that both parties need to agree on the validity of an argument. Doesn't matter which argument is logical, if one side has no respect for logic, it will not see the argument as valid, since you cannot use logic to prove to them the usefulness of logic.
well even logically valid arguments have flaws. An argument can be formally valid but not sound if 1 or more of the premises are false. e.g. Socrates is a man All men are immortal Therefore Socrates is immortal This is a logically valid syllogism however, it is not sound. There are many instances in politics where the above example may be the case and few of the observers will be able to spot it. This is especially true when one of the premises are only partial truths.
I got amazing grades and I still think grading is toxic. I used to have full-on break downs if I got less than 80% and was disappointed in myself for anything less than 90%.
@@JadeDRail it is indeed a small percentage of your intelligence but it matters more in life than any other form. The grading system is more hardwork than anything else imo.
Hey thanks for making the side note about people not being “smart” and “dumb.” There aren’t many people who care about that but they do exist and it was really nice of you to care about them.
An intelligent person is one that seeks knowledge. A dumb person refuses to learn. IQ is an arbitrary measure that fails to accurately determine "smartness".
Indeed, we're all the same, there are no dumb people. There may not even be a bell curve. No such thing as cognitive disability exists, either. Especially not mine, which to this day continues to predictably and agonizingly destroy everything I try to accomplish. I'm just not trying hard enough. Fuckin bootstraps, man. Sure wish I, too, had the luxury of pretending the problem is not there, but alas, reality will always be there to lovingly kick me in the teeth, should I get too uppity, haha.
@@0Advocat0 I don't believe that's what they meant. There are of course differences between people, but there isn't one actual trait we are referring to when we call someone "smart" or "dumb". It's referring to a cluster of different traits that can go together but which often don't. Cognitive ability is only a small part of it. Also, I don't much like the insinuation that someone with a cognitive disability is "dumb".
"Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby 'schooled' to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence...His imagination is 'schooled' to accept service in place of value." ― Ivan Illich, _Deschooling Society_
This is what I don't understand, it seems like the political world is slowing to a crawl. The last 20 years feels like it's had fewer notable policy changes than the 20 years before that, and so on. Remember when anti trust laws were actually enforced? WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING.
Well, that's the grift of neoliberalism: most of policies are de facto being inacted by large corporations (anything from self regulating bodies like ISO, which is pretty sweet ngl, pmcs acting without government clearance to Google having a fucking monopoly on information), and the governments are being reduced,so it really looks like everything is chaotic when its actually still very much deliberate.
One of the problems, in the US at least. It how policies aren't really created by government anymore. Instead the courts have become the defacto way that any new policy becomes law. Look at just how often major issues end up in front of the Supreme Court (and why the death of RBG is such a disaster). Many of those issues should (in a working government) have been something that the government legislated. Not left to the whims of the Supreme Court. And this is the result of decades of Republican obstructionism. They long ago stopped being a party of government and now do whatever they can to hold up or block any legislation (especially if it even vaguely progressive in some way) from actually becoming law. The result being, that many major political issues are either decided by Executive Order or after a lengthy trip though to the Supreme Court.
@moz zo I figure that's part of the point of wearing the hair and the clothes. 😂 Approaching old myself, and I don't like sagging. But hey, at least they have clean boxers on. They're advertising it.
Maybe if we don't count all those times wars happened because one side wanted to forcefully "trade" with another's resources at cost. Which is most of the times.
Sorkin is a great screenwriter. His political beliefs are misguided at best, but it takes a seriously good writer to make a 2.5 hour movie about the Uniform Code of Military Justice into an enjoyable viewing experience. The man understands story structure, scene work, and dialog....even if he doesn't have a clue about anything else.
Exquisite Corpse I’ve seen a Few Good Men, I’ve seen the Social Network, and I’ve tried to watch the West Wing. Sorkin’s dialogue radiates smugness, and has the purple prose of a self-impressed eighteen-year-old english major. That taken in tandem with his ideology makes pretty much every politically-charged scene come off like something from r/thatHappened. No, he’s not a good writer.
That West Wing scene is like a layer above a strawman argument, where instead of debating a strawman (that you wrote, as the show's writer), you debate someone who agrees with your every opinion and just imply that later, offscreen, you debated the strawman and won.
John may not be a Socialist (and his foreign policy takes are often...Bad), but I will say, he's the one Liberal pundit that seems to be fairly self-aware, plus, from personal experience, he's an excellent Breadpill.
@@leotyroler1700 I mean the interesting part is that the „bad guys“ are ultimately always rich people. It made me realize that capital stands in the way of almost all healthy developments.
@@billyweed835 John is good at packaging progressive or even socialised policies in a way that liberals can accept as consistent with their values. There's value in that by itself. And I'm sure he didn't intend to act as a RUclips gateway but my breadpill journey started when Some More News videos appeared in my recommended feed. I can only assume that was because I'd been watching Last Week Tonight. (I was centre left, emphasis on centre. Irish Greens/Labour/Socdem terriritory. Broadly supportive of leftist ideals but with the possibilities limited by a liberal worldview.)
God, I love Sorkin. That's the fantasy world I'd like to live in, a Gilmore Girls, Marvelous Ms. Maisel, Pushing Daisies world in which everyone has a big vocabulary and can talk extremely quickly and everyone is witty. I definitely grew up thinking that one day I'd meet a best friend who could communicate back and forth with me the way these characters do. Turns out usually it only works with other people who have ADHD 😅
The DNC is out here trying to play soccer, getting trounced by the RNC that realizes they're actually playing CalvinBall Also, thanks for the Eyeballs!
I've long thought that about the DNC and the GOP approach to politics. But currently I think it's even worse than that. The DNC are running around trying to play a game of football. Meanwhile the GOP are running around burning the whole stadium to the ground...
Thank you so much for articulating this for me! This mindset is exactly what made me lose faith in the government. After two years of working with my city government, I literally became an anarchist. It's so frustrating to see everyone hailing this system and demand we treat each other fairly when I could see the thousands of hours activists put in to simply be given a fraction of what is right and necessary. all in the name of the compromise and fairness of the system
The West Wing is more fantastical than Lord of the Rings, change my mind. Food and phone service are TERRIBLE examples. Does he think his cell reception comes from foreign-made cell towers?? Or that like a bunch of international companies are competing with his local ones to provide cell service? Or is he thinking that their employees are sent from other countries to build the infrastructure? Wtf is that example, forget ignoring negative externalities, it's just blatantly wrong. He also lives in the US, most of the things he eats are probably produced domestically. Sure the US imports things like soybeans and papayas, but, again, it's not a net importer of foodstuffs. That also ignores the effect of subsidies on making certain foods cheaper, not foreign competition. US ag has strong protectionist tendencies.
@@Sam_on_RUclips I can see that. It's obviously not a Sorkin production, but Designated Survivor had the same vibes, except even more gung-ho, 'Murica-y. I started watching out of morbid curiosity and couldn't stand that shit for more than a few episodes. The characters were also just so goddamn smug. I think the least unwatchable behind-the-political-process type of show made by a lib is The Thick of It. At least most of the characters are portrayed as ignorant, arrogant, and/or self-serving assholes.
And if anything, free trade *causes* wars. Whenever there's a movement anywhere in Latin America or the Middle East that threatens the US's cheap access to their resources, they stage a coup to install a government that will cooperate.
The US does import quite a bit of food, actually. The stuff we import is just completely outweighed by the bulk crops mega-farms produce mechanically. Food trade is one of the base examples taught in '101' economics when it comes to free trade - The US exports the kind of stuff that's easily produced by the kind of machine farming we practice, and we take in the kinds of food that are more effectively grown through manual labor (And which wont rot on the trip into the US). Of course, the overall picture is more complicated than that. But quite a bit of what the average American eats comes from Mexico.
This explains why I've been so disillusioned with political discourse - I've been unconsciously expecting it to follow the rules laid out in The West Wing.
I think the "wannabe Anarchist" comment is based on that stereotype that most Anarchists are just angry teens rebelling against their parents and adopting Anarchist aesthetics because they think it makes them look cool and edgy.
Of course, Everyone knows that teens aren't people, and they physically cant understand if something is actively hurting them Just like how they don't feel pain, because they're children And they about all the objective faxts that i accepted And everyone knows that im objectively right and everyone who oppose me is just an immature child or just lying and pretending
@Collin Buckman Yeah. That was my read on his comment, too. That same kind of dismissive outlook can apply to any group, particularly "young people", that go against the accepted social convention of the time: hippies, commies, socialists, etc. Like, "It's just a phase, they'll outgrow it." And to be fair, sometimes people do "outgrow it; i.e., change their ideals. For example, just look at how most former hippie/counter culture Boomers eventually became part of "The Establishment."
I like that it came out at the same time as House of Cards, a show that flatters the political establishment as savvy and clever manipulators. In Veep when characters try to execute grandiose gambits to get or obtain power, they're always thwarted by their own incompetence/hubris, their sycophantic subordinates making some small error OR unknowingly doing the right thing, or just freak random occurrence. Also they always treat "the people" as dumb cows, but anytime characters encounter "the people" they're always way more compassionate, thoughtful, or informed than the cynical dipshits in charge. Awesome.
Obama said as much: to paraphrase, he said they want to believe they are living the West Wing, but in reality they are living Veep. A long time ago I realized that was the problem with conspiracy theories: they are both true and false. The idea there is a small group of people running the world is true. But it's not a shadowy cabal, it's just rich people. And they don't want X, where X is whatever they are claiming they want (satanism, baby blood, etc.) They want money. It's just a group of selfish rich people making decisions to keep themselves rich. It's not mysterious at all.
I think the West Wing can still be enjoyable if you see it for what it is. As a TV show its still well constructed, but the story it tells is about as fantastical as things like game of thrones or something
I watched shortly after I first read Chomsky. In the 2nd(?) season, CJ goes on air with a virulent homophobe to "engage him in the free marketplace of ideas." Then during Bartlett's reelection, Donna accidently talks to a Communist and the entire cast loses their minds as simply acknowledging the existence of such a person could tank the election.
If this moron convinced you not to like it you don't have enough self confidence. Its one of the best dramas of all time. Conservatives never hated it until they turned into trumptard populists. Dont throw away our culture to be part of a crowd.
@@jimitaco1303 wait according to the poster of the video the show is all about how America is a meritocracy. Doesn't that scene pretty much debunk the entirety of this videos thesis? Doesn't matter if the communist had better ideas in that scene did it?
But thought slime in your rebuttal of Toby or Sorkin or whatever you weren't all poetic using rhythm and contrasting words or whatever so like idk about this
“Those damn kids and their PERFORMATIVE sense of style.” Says the guy who wears a suit all day. And honestly I work aesthetic into whatever I can. I’m not ashamed to say I look cool in all black and a gas mask. It’s practical and badass
"If you listen, you can hear them chittering, speaking in a secret code that instructs us all-" {Commercial interrupts} {During commercial} I can, I can hear them chittering, "Consume. . ."
Ryan McClean Basically, this. It's a really solid human drama couched in a comfortable fantasy version of at the time modern politics which, unfortunately, has some really *bad* implications when that political fantasy is taken seriously. What's more, after Sorkin bounced, they tried to make it grittier and more complex while kind of fumbling that human core and consequently made the show a lot less watchable.
The prequels are much closer to reality. Clone Wars is primarily started by a bunch of greedy corporations like the trade federation and techno union who profit off of the war and a power hunger leader who want to keep the war going as long as possible so he can gain more emergency powers and turn the Republic into an Empire. The Jedi, Clones, and Separatist all had their own reasons (to defend the republic or to gain independence) why they are fighting the war, but in reality, they are just dying so a couple people can get rich and more powerful.
Y’all should listen to the podcast The West Wing Thing with Dave Anthony and Josh Olson. Every week they rip apart an episode of the show. It’s delicious.
I've been wearing almost exclusively black clothes for the last ~15 years. But that's because I'm depressed and tired and I don't have to worry about what to wear. In the morning, I just grab one 'leg clothes' and one 'arm clothes' and they are guaranteed to match my 'foot clothes'. Then I can throw it all in one load of laundry at the end of the week... ......Has Trump lost yet?......
When I used to work in a manufacturing plant, we were pushed into getting a QS-9000 rating. Basically, it didn't matter that the "process" is bad; as long as we used it consistently and it was well-documented.
I recomment The Thick of it, british series about a labour government where everything is a shitshow Plus you get some nice scottish shouting and cursing
Can recommend, that show is actually funny, and the characters are nearly all scumbags to some extent. I was honestly surprised to find out the writer was a Lib Dem because he takes potshots at damn near everybody. It's also a Blairite/"New Labour" gov, so it's nice to see them get chewed out.
Omg I love The Thick of it. I don’t think my parents were too amused by baby me “learning” the vocabulary from the show. But my dad and I were big fans nonetheless.
@Falcon Fern It may be, admittedly I don't know much about them. Between the large faction of neolibs in Labour and the Tories, I don't know what the hell position the Lib Dems are supposed to occupy. Are they supposed to be Tories but not openly racist/sexist? What's their angle?
@@AmunDeus the Lib Dems I've met (and there haven't been many) are generally former Tory or Labour supporters who've been disgruntled by some development in party policy. So I may be being horribly cynical, but it appears their angle is just being an 'alternative' that doesn't look too radical and might just get some seats.
In fairness, the people convinceable in a debate is a VERY small portion of the population. Not enough to sway the election, compared to the outsized coverage and energy put into it. But within that population, the poll numbers show Trump's behavior didn't help him and actually did hurt. But that is a small slice of a tiny slice of the electorate and will have no real effect.
And it wouldn't be that surprising if they're exactly those centrists (or even moderate Republicans) who believe in The Process. Progressives who were already planning to hold their nose and vote not-Trump as a harm-reduction measure will probably not change their vote because they're mad about Biden following the rules too much.
I just drove 25 miles for nothing because the sales appointment I was supposed to have had been canceled by the client, which my office knew, but send me anyway in the hopes I could still get in. But at least I get to listen to Stink Matt on the way back
Literally as soon as you said, "and he delivered the following shitty speech," a grubhub ad played yelling "baked pie, pad ti, iced chai..." Just thought it was amazing timing
The first few times I have seen this comment I thought it was clever and funny and even I did it a couple times. But now I think it's kind of an insult. Matt put passion into his video essays, but you don't even have any legitimate engagement offer?
This video is very good and valuable. I felt like Slime articulated the fears, suspicions and plain confusion swirling around in my head into something coherent and lasting and I feel relieved because of it, even if the problems described weren't alleviated. I now have a better understanding of the mysterious itch that's been haunting my sleep.
I love the West Wing, not because I ever thought it was at ALL realistic, but for the same reason I like Lord of the Rings. It is a nice fantasy world. And like other fantasy worlds, the characters are not supposed to be always right or reflect the views of the author. And, like other fantasy, you can like it even if you don't like the author. Though there are potential limits, Ms. Rowling, though that is a more complicated discussion.
Yeah. I love West Wing, too. Well, the Sorkin years anyway. And viewed it in a similar manner. Oddly, I think that some of Toby's arguments that ThoughtSlime critiques here were actually more properly addressed in an episode of a later Sorkin show, The Newsroom, that dealt with Occupy Wall Street. So perhaps some of Sorkin's political views have changed since his West Wing days? With that said, I thought The Newsroom was a wasted opportunity.
@@chujiwu68 It's also worth noting that Toby was explicitly wrong in that episode, as he is frequently. Toby frequently represents the kind of liberal point of view criticized here, while others, like CJ, Donna, and Joey are more progressive and Josh and Leo are far more open to aggressive realpolitik methods. I happened to have rewatched this episode recently. The scene is early in the episode. The theme of the episode is learning to see the world differently and change your mind (in one portion, that is very literal). And Toby at first sees the protests as a distraction, but comes to see it as a more valuable expression of the same kind of speech happening in the White House. It is FAR from a perfect depiction, but that speech is not really the best example of the show's own views.
@@Sam_on_RUclips Ah, great point. I thought about getting into that a bit more, but 1)I hadn't seen the show in ages and 2)I was trying to keep my comment as short as possible. I think the B-plot of that episode involved a more accurate version of the world map, right (haha)?
I've been listening to the West Wing Thing for the last couple weeks. :P Really shocking to see how that fantasy world transformed into liberal policy. D: Like when Biden said on the Debate, "We're going to make [however many] good-paying green jobs... Not $15 an hour jobs, but good jobs," I screamed at the TV, "That's the West Wing! It's not a good-paying job if it doesn't pay a living wage, you idiot!"
That show is a lot more enjoyable and insightful than West Wing, but it often veers pretty close to Thatcherite propaganda, where the government is inherently incapable of solving problems, and whenever it _seems_ to be trying to help it's actually some taxpayer money-wasting ploy by a smug career bureaucrat.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs it's literally consists of constant criticism of neo-liberalism so, I'm genuinely confused how in the world, what you say is possible.
That "free trade stops wars!" line was pretty indoctrinating to me when I was a liberal. I think there's a better rebuttal to it than you gave in this video though. I don't think the position is that the simple existence of free trade will end all war. The point is that free trade between individual nations supposedly "prevents" war. The thing is, if you dig a little deeper, what you find is the US imposing austerity on poor nations through predatory lending, it's not "free" in any sense of the word. And if a country won't do the trading with the US, then *the US* will do the invading with that country, either directly or by proxy. So "free trade stops wars" coming from a white house official is super sinister. It's basically, "Nice country you got there. Nice resources. I'd hate for something bad to happen to it."
8:57 this is one of the big sellers to me of this as a neoliberal fantasy Both parties must compromise or else risk losing the seat at the table It keeps them from the rightward tilt that neoliberalism has taken when conservatives refuse to compromise and do not lose their power and neoliberals respond to this but compromising more so to the conservatives or just doing what the conservatives wanted in the first place
The ratchet model of political drift. Repubs are the ratchet that grabs the gear and forces it a step to the right. Dems are the pawl that locks the teeth and prevents any opposite motion back to the left. They are, at best, a drag anchor. At worst they help row a bit. One way or another though, the bow of the ship always points right
I watched WW when I was a lot younger and took it as fiction, being from the UK. Was very worrying to see how many americans thought the real world works that way
I'm gonna have to share this, I've been trying to find the right words to express this for months, & have been consistently disappointed with my results.
The one dislike is... idk frankly. The video is 22 minutes long and it was posted 3 minutes ago so you can't blame me for not watching. I just wanted to make the joke while it's still relevant. I'm only 15 seconds in
For the past 7 minutes I've been trying to figure out where I know that actor from and then it just hit me when he raised his voice that "OH MY GOD, HE'S FROM THE GOOD DOCTOR." I know that's not important but I'm angry with myself that it took me so long to realize what I was recognizing him from.
What gets me about The West Wing is that it's basically platform-independent. You could do a show exactly like that set in pretty much any régime you want to look good, and it would work, because the basic messages are the basic messages of official propaganda no matter where you go: our rulers are wise and benevolent, and they have risen to the top because they are better than you. Just to test this premise, I actually cut together a montage of selected scenes from 'Downfall' with the West Wing title theme a few weeks ago, and it fucking worked. I'd upload it to my channel, but I think that should get be DMCA'd before it even finished processing for SD.
I think shows like that are perfectly fine to watch and generally entertaining. As long as you never try to relate it to the real world. Just suspend your disbelief and assume it takes place in an alternate universe where 'Da System' actually works. ...And where important people happen to have light skin, I guess...
@@SubjectiveObserver i'd rather not. because it still paints a false picture that Da System works, just needs the 'right people'. Da System doesn't work in favour of truth, justice and all things good. it never has, it never will.
@@phangkuanhoong7967 I feel like you missed my point. Or didn't acknowledge it. I watch shows about intergalactic space exploration, giant humanoid robots, characters who have deep philosophical debates while in the middle of a sword fight. Many of the strategies and solutions presented in fiction are obviously useless in reality. You can still enjoy it as a *fantasy* where problems are solved in fun or satisfying ways. And it's an opportunity to hear various arguments presented by the writers and compare them to your own views. But if you're not interested in watching it, that's fine too. I spend more time reading books or playing video games than watching tv. Television shows never bother to write satisfying endings... They just keep pumping out seasons until the audience gets bored...
@@SubjectiveObserver sorry, but you cannot equate a work of fiction that has a real world setting AND the creators explicitly state that this is their idealized version of Da System, and then treat it as pure fantasy. it simply isn't. fictional settings like this shapes the audience perception of the real world and Da System. it's the reason why cop shows are copaganda that ultimately influences how people view the police as an institution. Stuff like West Wing isn't pure fantasy. it's ideological, whether the creator realizes it or not, or whether it's done intentionally or not. Sorkin pushes a liberal worldview with incredible ignorance of a great many subjects his shows touch on. it's never pure fantasy. it just can't be. We're not talking about space operas here.
If I remember correctly since the inception of rhetoric as a thing one can do in ancient greece, people have been very aware of the fact that one can argue for anything successfully, no matter how untrue or deceptive, by using rhetoric devices. It's not a battle of ideas or a search for truth, it's a contest of grammar. Does Aaron Sorkin know that? Does he care? Mind you I come from a country where debate clubs in schools are not a thing as they apparently are in US and Canada.
Human intelligence is usually general, and there's people with more general intelligence than other people. How else do you explain that some kids suffer from boredom if they're in normal classes and are happy in accelerated classes, while other same-age kids find normal classes adequately challenging? I'll agree that other factors affecting the way a person speaks make it nearly impossible to tell how intelligent they are from their word choice and sentence structure. But just because some unpleasant people use human general intelligence as an excuse to do bad things doesn't mean it's not real.
I was bored to death in supposedly honors classes. You know why? Because of the way it was taught. There was nothing to draw me in, and all the interesting stuff I had already dug into elsewhere, years earlier in fact, just out of sheer curiousity. It's not just the content, either -- the method was 90% memorization, and the difference between regular and honors classes was primarily the quantity of work. Were they challenging, though? Well, yes -- it tends to be pretty challenging to learn to read the minds of test-makers to figure out which of the three correct answers on a multiple choice question they actually want you to pick so you can get credit. I was good at figuring out from context what they wanted me to pick, but not because of some general intelligence thingy there either -- that specific skill is just something I find easier to deal with than many others, primarily because I've required it for day-to-day interactions my entire life. Necessity's a pretty effective, if extremely unpleasant, teacher. Overall, the entire concept of general intelligence appears to be a load of absolute nonsense created from attempts to simplify reality well beyond the point where it even makes any practical sense to do so.
Being an only child, I was ahead of classes when I was very young because I got education from my father. I was subsequently very bored for a very long time. Eventually classes caught up and I was behind for a time. People have mental resources and they go where they're needed - be it surviving home life, keeping up with school work or figuring out social relationships. How they perform or concern themselves with school would be terrible metrics for evaluating variations in natural capacity, to whatever extent they might exist.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
You know the show was idealistic when they solved the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a side story.
God if THAT isn't another example of one side following "the process" and getting screwed because the side with power isn't afraid of executing that power with utter supremacy for its maximum benefit.
The solution to that would have been really simple: get out.
@@HomersIlliad I have to assume you're not implying that the Palestinians should ethnically cleanse themselves as a matter of convenience to Israeli colonizers.
@@christopherpoff4117 wait no maybe he's onto something, maybe if everyone just left that land no one would have to fight over it, maybe we could like flood it??? Palestinians, Israelis, everyone, off limits, now no one can play!
@@NMahon Okay well that's still taking land away from Palestinians and leaving them stateless. So no, that's hardly better than what the Israelis are doing.
Liberals when conservatives do something shitty: The people won't stand for that!
Liberals when the people don't stand for that: Wait no
But you're supposed to not stand for that using Da Process(tm)! They go low, we go high!
My roommate in a nutshell holy shit 😂
suprised pikachu face
When people call out the bs from a liberal: "oh no I've been cancelled, look fellow liberals, save me from this prison!"
This comment is the least nuanced thing I may have ever read. You think someone's a hypocrite for wanting people to oppose something (or "not standing for it") while at the same time wanting them to not murder innocent people the way anarchist protestors have? Literally children have one less parent because of the anarchists rioters, but yeah fuck the liberals for not wanting violence, man!
If you took away anything from the debate it should be that the world is not run by competent people
👏 You just won 12 internets!!!
Trump took COVID away from the debate
Don't know why we still even bother with presidential debates, the number of people whose minds were changed after hearing the candidates "espouse their views" in the "marketplace of ideas" is precisely zero
@@frosted3
I've actually seen a few people comment that they had been going to vote Green Party, until Trump's performance scared the h*ll out of them.
@@grmpEqweer is hell censored as a joke (dont judge me yknow how wild things are in the internets so i just want to be sure)
One of the few scenes I've seen from The West Wing is the guy from Cabin in the Woods demanding one of his employees to stop wearing her frivolous Star Trek pin (a show that has inspired countless people to do selfless and amazing things for the common good) because it doesn't belong in the workplace!
Then he has a heart to heart with her about it. She wants to bring its values to what she does! But turns out he's a fan too, and he can (incorrectly) rattle off a ton of (incorrect) minutiae! Turns out he's inspired by it too! But you're not supposed to show off your childish interests in a serious workplace where people do serious work!
What a stupid point to make in your very serious show about very serious leaders asking their employees to.... I don't know? Do the right thing but don't dream too big because that's childish?
Are you seriously telling me that they devoted actual screen time... to a discussion about a Star Trek pin? Like, people were being shoved into prison at an unprecedented rate for the shittiest "reasons" at the time that episode was being made, and that's the kind of "issue" they discussed? Libs are a different breed, I tell you
Or the fact that if you're having to subject yourself to the life of a wage you should be coming to work naked. Star Trek pins are neon liberal social democracies lol.
@@AmunDeus It's not a news show and it was about the character not adjusting well to having a new assistant and so picking on something frivolous. It was never treated as a good thing and even the character who was doing it walked it back by the end of the scene.
Yes that was a stupid plot and a waste of screen time. However you're misremembering it a little bit. He doesn't incorrectly rattle off incorrect minutiae to her. She basically tries to say she isn't "crazy" because she is an obsessive star trek fan. Josh basically says "I'm a fan too, but I don't do thinks like compare species X to Y, list my 500 least favorite episodes, list my 500 favorite LEAST favorite episodes, etc, and then do everything I just listed over and over again because that's not fandom. That's having a fetish." The conflict is framed as more "I asked a new employee to remove her star trek pin. OH NO! She's an extremist fan!"
Again, I'm not saying that this was actually some elegantly written plot line in the show, and your point about why the woman in question should even be asked to remove her pin still stands. I'm just saying there is some additional context the interaction you described. And as weird as the sub plot was, the speech Josh gives about not getting too obsessive about your fandom is something I think about a lot these days given my ever growing frustration with the toxic and cyclical nature of a lot of modern fan bases.
The reason he asked her not to wear the pin was that in a place like the Whitehouse, it could be ridiculed by the press if it was known and seen as too informal by people visiting the place on business that an employee is wearing it, which is a legitimate concern, it's not personal just professional. Lol, people are misreading bits of this show all over this video, clearly they didn't watch it and see the actual context or anything
I remember my dad saying to me that "The West Wing" is "American capitalist propaganda"... and my dad is a concervative (btw).
Maybe not economically.
When it comes to the abstract ideas, Libertarian issues of culture (civil rights, feminism, LGBTQIA* acceptance) don't necessarily go along with anti-Capitalism.
A class conscious conservative? Nah, that's impossible
@@cosmoreverb3977 Some Republican voters are only scared off by the established terms, not the actual concepts...
@@xCorvus7x Infact most americans have progressive ideas and agree with them, they kinda are just stuck in.....the two party system
@@AbstractTraitorHero
Exactly, and they are scarred by the Red Scare.
When I was a kid wearing black got me accused of being a low-tier goth. This was false (there's no makeup, bling, or flair involved in my outfit). Now it gets me accused of being an anarchist. This is correct. Guess I'll keep wearing black.
@@anthonybatissa1417 oh I hate uniforms, whether it comes with flair or swag or even in my favorite color. Guess it's the anti-conformist in me
When I was a kid, wearing black got me accused of worshiping Satan. At the time, they were right. As an adult, wearing black gets me high fives from guys who think I like Heavy Metal music. They are also right.
@@HoundofOdin worshipping satan ahh yes wonder why people dont like an coms
@@OscarMor5678 The number of angry teenagers who dabble in Satanism is astronomical. I realized Satanism isn't for me but Heavy Metal certainly is.
@@OscarMor5678 fuck that praise Satan. Satan only wants us to be happy.
The problem with debate and arguments is that both parties need to agree on the validity of an argument. Doesn't matter which argument is logical, if one side has no respect for logic, it will not see the argument as valid, since you cannot use logic to prove to them the usefulness of logic.
This is an extremely important point.
well even logically valid arguments have flaws. An argument can be formally valid but not sound if 1 or more of the premises are false. e.g.
Socrates is a man
All men are immortal
Therefore Socrates is immortal
This is a logically valid syllogism however, it is not sound.
There are many instances in politics where the above example may be the case and few of the observers will be able to spot it. This is especially true when one of the premises are only partial truths.
I got amazing grades and I still think grading is toxic. I used to have full-on break downs if I got less than 80% and was disappointed in myself for anything less than 90%.
I graduated high school with a 3.9 GPA and I was still upset I didn't get the full 4.0
"Don't worry about it son. I was gonna be disappointed in you anyway." --My mom lol
@jshowa o Indeed it's awful to tie someone's worth so closely to grades on arbitrary subjects that only showcase a tiny fraction of intelligence.
Thats your own fault lol there is nothing wrong with the grading system .
@@JadeDRail it is indeed a small percentage of your intelligence but it matters more in life than any other form. The grading system is more hardwork than anything else imo.
“And he delivers the following stunning speech: [ad break]”
The irony wasn't lost on me either
CAPITALISM
Double-D: CURSE YOU, BROADCAST COMMERCIALISM.
youtubers can decide where to put the ad break, so it was an intentional joke by thoughty slimey :)
THEREESA GREENFIELD-
Food insecurity is making a comeback here in Brazil
Along with American-backed military authoritarianism
People take Throwback Thursday too far...
Good luck. I hope you can set up communities to try and help each other. 💕
maybe stop mixing race bro i bet your family looks like a pack of brown skittles
Iai irmão
@@Fofanarmy Race doesn't exist lol
"Sorry, Logic Daddy" made me laugh harder than it should have.
missed the word "laugh" at first oops
@@bigsteve3481 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
@@bigsteve3481 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Hey thanks for making the side note about people not being “smart” and “dumb.” There aren’t many people who care about that but they do exist and it was really nice of you to care about them.
An intelligent person is one that seeks knowledge. A dumb person refuses to learn. IQ is an arbitrary measure that fails to accurately determine "smartness".
Indeed, we're all the same, there are no dumb people. There may not even be a bell curve. No such thing as cognitive disability exists, either. Especially not mine, which to this day continues to predictably and agonizingly destroy everything I try to accomplish. I'm just not trying hard enough. Fuckin bootstraps, man.
Sure wish I, too, had the luxury of pretending the problem is not there, but alas, reality will always be there to lovingly kick me in the teeth, should I get too uppity, haha.
@@0Advocat0 I don't believe that's what they meant. There are of course differences between people, but there isn't one actual trait we are referring to when we call someone "smart" or "dumb". It's referring to a cluster of different traits that can go together but which often don't. Cognitive ability is only a small part of it. Also, I don't much like the insinuation that someone with a cognitive disability is "dumb".
@@0Advocat0 Pretty sure they mean intelligence is hard to quantify and largely contextual.
Caring about people is liberalism. Just ask Jason Unruhe
"Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby 'schooled' to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence...His imagination is 'schooled' to accept service in place of value." ― Ivan Illich, _Deschooling Society_
Great reference, I actually have that one on my reading list
Really speaks to how were teaching economics
Damn that was good. I need to start listing quotes again.
Every time I'm amused by "no more than one email." Imagining someone sending 0 emails and just thinking really hard about eyeballs to convey interest
I wanna figure out how to send 2/3 of an email
Send email headers but no content.
X-Eyeball-Header: true
@@zalafinari Small Leftist "pronouns in email-header" Projects says hi.
@@JovanDacic X-Pronouns-Header: "he/him";
I wait for him to send me an email. -1 emails if you prefer.
This is what I don't understand, it seems like the political world is slowing to a crawl. The last 20 years feels like it's had fewer notable policy changes than the 20 years before that, and so on.
Remember when anti trust laws were actually enforced?
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING.
Well, that's the grift of neoliberalism: most of policies are de facto being inacted by large corporations (anything from self regulating bodies like ISO, which is pretty sweet ngl, pmcs acting without government clearance to Google having a fucking monopoly on information), and the governments are being reduced,so it really looks like everything is chaotic when its actually still very much deliberate.
Ah filibusters, making any legal action slow to a snail’s pace
The world is moving at the same speed it always has. It's just that history seems a lot smaller in the rear view mirror.
@K B no, god no. Im saying we should nationalize McDonald's and conquer their bread, which is the only good part of their sandwiches.
One of the problems, in the US at least. It how policies aren't really created by government anymore. Instead the courts have become the defacto way that any new policy becomes law.
Look at just how often major issues end up in front of the Supreme Court (and why the death of RBG is such a disaster). Many of those issues should (in a working government) have been something that the government legislated. Not left to the whims of the Supreme Court.
And this is the result of decades of Republican obstructionism. They long ago stopped being a party of government and now do whatever they can to hold up or block any legislation (especially if it even vaguely progressive in some way) from actually becoming law. The result being, that many major political issues are either decided by Executive Order or after a lengthy trip though to the Supreme Court.
"these kids today with the _hair_ and the _clothes_"
Truly an example of Sorkin's magic way with dialogue.
@moz zo
I figure that's part of the point of wearing the hair and the clothes. 😂
Approaching old myself, and I don't like sagging. But hey, at least they have clean boxers on. They're advertising it.
I'm gonna own the libs by having no hair and no clothes.
Aw man, I was born in the wrong generation. Bring back bald public nudity! Make America Greasy Again
This show won a fucking emmy
i can already taste that sweet money
Hey Joel
He’s back and larger than ever
@@KyleLatebeer hey big jole*
Love your channel 💗
Get your 6$ American ready BJ
"Free trade stops wars"
Hoo boy, I hope nothing bad happens to that World Trade Centre in 2001 then!
I know right! What bad could happen on September 11 2001!
Maybe if we don't count all those times wars happened because one side wanted to forcefully "trade" with another's resources at cost. Which is most of the times.
It’s really weird that Sorkin believes that our society is a meritocracy, considering that he of all people is an incredibly successful writer.
it's not weird at all. Surely over the past 4 years you've become aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect?
SavageGreywolf S’a joke, good sir. I’m very aware that Sorkin believes he’s a good writer.
Sorkin is a great screenwriter. His political beliefs are misguided at best, but it takes a seriously good writer to make a 2.5 hour movie about the Uniform Code of Military Justice into an enjoyable viewing experience. The man understands story structure, scene work, and dialog....even if he doesn't have a clue about anything else.
Exquisite Corpse I’ve seen a Few Good Men, I’ve seen the Social Network, and I’ve tried to watch the West Wing.
Sorkin’s dialogue radiates smugness, and has the purple prose of a self-impressed eighteen-year-old english major.
That taken in tandem with his ideology makes pretty much every politically-charged scene come off like something from r/thatHappened.
No, he’s not a good writer.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick I'm curious, do you make a living as a writer?
That West Wing scene is like a layer above a strawman argument, where instead of debating a strawman (that you wrote, as the show's writer), you debate someone who agrees with your every opinion and just imply that later, offscreen, you debated the strawman and won.
"they go low we go high"
Fascists LOVE when liberals do this, as it gives the Fascists no real opposition.
This aged like a fine, fine wine. I mean it's quite spot on
This video is like the fully-articulated equivalent of John Oliver’s “we got him” skit and honestly I’m here for it.
John may not be a Socialist (and his foreign policy takes are often...Bad), but I will say, he's the one Liberal pundit that seems to be fairly self-aware, plus, from personal experience, he's an excellent Breadpill.
@@billyweed835 yeah, he's great for people to start questioning our current systems but doesn't go so far as to point out the root causes of issues.
@@leotyroler1700 I mean the interesting part is that the „bad guys“ are ultimately always rich people. It made me realize that capital stands in the way of almost all healthy developments.
@@epimisti yeah, what really breadpilled me was just taking a step back an realizing both parties continue fucking over the poor
@@billyweed835 John is good at packaging progressive or even socialised policies in a way that liberals can accept as consistent with their values. There's value in that by itself.
And I'm sure he didn't intend to act as a RUclips gateway but my breadpill journey started when Some More News videos appeared in my recommended feed. I can only assume that was because I'd been watching Last Week Tonight. (I was centre left, emphasis on centre. Irish Greens/Labour/Socdem terriritory. Broadly supportive of leftist ideals but with the possibilities limited by a liberal worldview.)
God, I love Sorkin. That's the fantasy world I'd like to live in, a Gilmore Girls, Marvelous Ms. Maisel, Pushing Daisies world in which everyone has a big vocabulary and can talk extremely quickly and everyone is witty.
I definitely grew up thinking that one day I'd meet a best friend who could communicate back and forth with me the way these characters do. Turns out usually it only works with other people who have ADHD 😅
ADHD = intellect confirmed!
But I feel your pain. It was a nice fantasy world wasn't it?
ooh mood! I always wondered why most of my best friends over time had ADHD, and then it turned out the I do too.
I can agree.
ADHD hard, only can find the engagement I want in conversation with my brother or online.
Me and my fiance have that, but only because we share exactly. 1.2 braincells
Oh my god I feel seen.
The DNC is out here trying to play soccer, getting trounced by the RNC that realizes they're actually playing CalvinBall
Also, thanks for the Eyeballs!
That is the most apt description of modern American politics I think I've seen.
That's so clever, I'm subscribing.
@@leoseling4413 same.
I've long thought that about the DNC and the GOP approach to politics.
But currently I think it's even worse than that.
The DNC are running around trying to play a game of football.
Meanwhile the GOP are running around burning the whole stadium to the ground...
C A L V I N B A L L ! ! !
Thank you so much for articulating this for me! This mindset is exactly what made me lose faith in the government. After two years of working with my city government, I literally became an anarchist. It's so frustrating to see everyone hailing this system and demand we treat each other fairly when I could see the thousands of hours activists put in to simply be given a fraction of what is right and necessary. all in the name of the compromise and fairness of the system
“Those kids with their clothes and hair.”
Yeah, that’s when I know I am seeing a wannabe anarchist too. Clothes and hair.
The West Wing is more fantastical than Lord of the Rings, change my mind.
Food and phone service are TERRIBLE examples. Does he think his cell reception comes from foreign-made cell towers?? Or that like a bunch of international companies are competing with his local ones to provide cell service? Or is he thinking that their employees are sent from other countries to build the infrastructure? Wtf is that example, forget ignoring negative externalities, it's just blatantly wrong. He also lives in the US, most of the things he eats are probably produced domestically. Sure the US imports things like soybeans and papayas, but, again, it's not a net importer of foodstuffs. That also ignores the effect of subsidies on making certain foods cheaper, not foreign competition. US ag has strong protectionist tendencies.
All of Sorkin is fantasy. It is set in an alternate reality. That is very much evident in Newsroom as well. I enjoy it, but I enoy it for what it is.
Sam the alternative reality of being rich
@@Sam_on_RUclips I can see that. It's obviously not a Sorkin production, but Designated Survivor had the same vibes, except even more gung-ho, 'Murica-y. I started watching out of morbid curiosity and couldn't stand that shit for more than a few episodes. The characters were also just so goddamn smug.
I think the least unwatchable behind-the-political-process type of show made by a lib is The Thick of It. At least most of the characters are portrayed as ignorant, arrogant, and/or self-serving assholes.
And if anything, free trade *causes* wars. Whenever there's a movement anywhere in Latin America or the Middle East that threatens the US's cheap access to their resources, they stage a coup to install a government that will cooperate.
The US does import quite a bit of food, actually. The stuff we import is just completely outweighed by the bulk crops mega-farms produce mechanically. Food trade is one of the base examples taught in '101' economics when it comes to free trade - The US exports the kind of stuff that's easily produced by the kind of machine farming we practice, and we take in the kinds of food that are more effectively grown through manual labor (And which wont rot on the trip into the US).
Of course, the overall picture is more complicated than that. But quite a bit of what the average American eats comes from Mexico.
Reminds me of of Innuendo Studio's "You go low, we go high"
It seems like an especially relevant time for it.
This explains why I've been so disillusioned with political discourse - I've been unconsciously expecting it to follow the rules laid out in The West Wing.
Yay, one of them gets it!
I think the "wannabe Anarchist" comment is based on that stereotype that most Anarchists are just angry teens rebelling against their parents and adopting Anarchist aesthetics because they think it makes them look cool and edgy.
Oh god i found the Homestuck
Tbf being an anarchist is extremely cool
Of course, Everyone knows that teens aren't people, and they physically cant understand if something is actively hurting them
Just like how they don't feel pain, because they're children
And they about all the objective faxts that i accepted
And everyone knows that im objectively right and everyone who oppose me is just an immature child or just lying and pretending
@Collin Buckman Yeah. That was my read on his comment, too. That same kind of dismissive outlook can apply to any group, particularly "young people", that go against the accepted social convention of the time: hippies, commies, socialists, etc. Like, "It's just a phase, they'll outgrow it." And to be fair, sometimes people do "outgrow it; i.e., change their ideals. For example, just look at how most former hippie/counter culture Boomers eventually became part of "The Establishment."
whoa
I almost vomited when he said “lowers prices and raises income.. see what I did there?”
Same. Him saying it lowered our tolerance for BS, and nearly raised our lunch! See what I did there? 😛
Sorkin is such a bad writer holy shit, I would've wrote that as a joke
there's something about the phrase "slime certified cool aunt" that makes me feel uncomfortable
i felt the slightest twinge as well
I think I'm the cool aunt, but my niece and nephew are in first grade.
Like and comment if your aunt is a slime certified cool aunt
Cold take: Veep is more accurate than West Wing.
I like that it came out at the same time as House of Cards, a show that flatters the political establishment as savvy and clever manipulators.
In Veep when characters try to execute grandiose gambits to get or obtain power, they're always thwarted by their own incompetence/hubris, their sycophantic subordinates making some small error OR unknowingly doing the right thing, or just freak random occurrence.
Also they always treat "the people" as dumb cows, but anytime characters encounter "the people" they're always way more compassionate, thoughtful, or informed than the cynical dipshits in charge. Awesome.
Frozen take: Yes, minister is far more accurate.
Obama said as much: to paraphrase, he said they want to believe they are living the West Wing, but in reality they are living Veep.
A long time ago I realized that was the problem with conspiracy theories: they are both true and false. The idea there is a small group of people running the world is true. But it's not a shadowy cabal, it's just rich people. And they don't want X, where X is whatever they are claiming they want (satanism, baby blood, etc.) They want money. It's just a group of selfish rich people making decisions to keep themselves rich. It's not mysterious at all.
"Brain Dead" is more accurate than both. . .
@@OfficialEpicPixel so was the original (British) House of Cards
> I am not saying "do not vote"
Thanks so much for clarifying this, it's annoying to see so many people draw that conclusion.
Funny, I was just rewatching folding ideas talk about QAnon. Trust the process..
You need to chant that harder, if you just keep muttering it then people will think you’re in a cult 👀
Which episode is that?
@@bonniea8189 The newest one, with flat earth.
@@ruki4929 an excellent episode, that opener when he basically zapruders the shot of the water had me openly weeping
Folding ideas is awesome, and his latest video is a total masterpiece
"A very polite empty suit"
Jesus, I about snorted my water out my nose
You can't fight the system with the system.
you're a slave to the system liberal!
Man...I remember when I liked the West Wing.
This is now a mood.
I think the West Wing can still be enjoyable if you see it for what it is. As a TV show its still well constructed, but the story it tells is about as fantastical as things like game of thrones or something
I watched shortly after I first read Chomsky. In the 2nd(?) season, CJ goes on air with a virulent homophobe to "engage him in the free marketplace of ideas." Then during Bartlett's reelection, Donna accidently talks to a Communist and the entire cast loses their minds as simply acknowledging the existence of such a person could tank the election.
If this moron convinced you not to like it you don't have enough self confidence. Its one of the best dramas of all time. Conservatives never hated it until they turned into trumptard populists. Dont throw away our culture to be part of a crowd.
@@jimitaco1303 wait according to the poster of the video the show is all about how America is a meritocracy. Doesn't that scene pretty much debunk the entirety of this videos thesis? Doesn't matter if the communist had better ideas in that scene did it?
@@lukeseguin1875 he’s a socialist, big difference
The algorithm requires me to state that I am indeed entergaged after viewing this online media video
But thought slime in your rebuttal of Toby or Sorkin or whatever you weren't all poetic using rhythm and contrasting words or whatever so like idk about this
“Those damn kids and their PERFORMATIVE sense of style.” Says the guy who wears a suit all day.
And honestly I work aesthetic into whatever I can. I’m not ashamed to say I look cool in all black and a gas mask. It’s practical and badass
Style is substance. Aesthetic carries ideology more than anything. Good on you for using it and incorporating it consciously, more people should
"If you listen, you can hear them chittering, speaking in a secret code that instructs us all-" {Commercial interrupts}
{During commercial} I can, I can hear them chittering, "Consume. . ."
The Star Wars prequels are a better political story than The West Wing.
That being said, Sorkin still writes really really entertaining dialog.
Ryan McClean Basically, this. It's a really solid human drama couched in a comfortable fantasy version of at the time modern politics which, unfortunately, has some really *bad* implications when that political fantasy is taken seriously. What's more, after Sorkin bounced, they tried to make it grittier and more complex while kind of fumbling that human core and consequently made the show a lot less watchable.
His dialogue couldn't possibly be better than the memeable glory that is the prequel trilogy.
The prequels are much closer to reality. Clone Wars is primarily started by a bunch of greedy corporations like the trade federation and techno union who profit off of the war and a power hunger leader who want to keep the war going as long as possible so he can gain more emergency powers and turn the Republic into an Empire. The Jedi, Clones, and Separatist all had their own reasons (to defend the republic or to gain independence) why they are fighting the war, but in reality, they are just dying so a couple people can get rich and more powerful.
@@xevious1538 I second this take
@kevin willems I agree
I left teaching too and was also a mediocre turned honor student once I picked my own classes. I’m running full speed to this eyeball.
Y’all should listen to the podcast The West Wing Thing with Dave Anthony and Josh Olson. Every week they rip apart an episode of the show. It’s delicious.
Keep spreading the good word, stay safe out there.
I was scrolling to find this comment. Great podcast.
Charlie Brown thinking that THIS TIME Lucy will let him kick the football.
They literally make that joke in the west wing.
I'm an anarchist and I'm in a floral print dress, so......
Goals honestly
I’m an anarchist stereotype I’m currently wearing tech gear style clothes and four inch tall black combat boots made out of vegan leather
I've been wearing almost exclusively black clothes for the last ~15 years. But that's because I'm depressed and tired and I don't have to worry about what to wear. In the morning, I just grab one 'leg clothes' and one 'arm clothes' and they are guaranteed to match my 'foot clothes'. Then I can throw it all in one load of laundry at the end of the week...
......Has Trump lost yet?......
Anarchist here decked out in vibrantly pink clothing lol
I'm wearing a mint green slip with pink roses
When I used to work in a manufacturing plant, we were pushed into getting a QS-9000 rating. Basically, it didn't matter that the "process" is bad; as long as we used it consistently and it was well-documented.
I recomment The Thick of it, british series about a labour government where everything is a shitshow
Plus you get some nice scottish shouting and cursing
Can recommend, that show is actually funny, and the characters are nearly all scumbags to some extent.
I was honestly surprised to find out the writer was a Lib Dem because he takes potshots at damn near everybody.
It's also a Blairite/"New Labour" gov, so it's nice to see them get chewed out.
Omg I love The Thick of it. I don’t think my parents were too amused by baby me “learning” the vocabulary from the show. But my dad and I were big fans nonetheless.
@Falcon Fern including the Lib Dems.
@Falcon Fern It may be, admittedly I don't know much about them. Between the large faction of neolibs in Labour and the Tories, I don't know what the hell position the Lib Dems are supposed to occupy. Are they supposed to be Tories but not openly racist/sexist? What's their angle?
@@AmunDeus the Lib Dems I've met (and there haven't been many) are generally former Tory or Labour supporters who've been disgruntled by some development in party policy. So I may be being horribly cynical, but it appears their angle is just being an 'alternative' that doesn't look too radical and might just get some seats.
Wow I'm only two minutes in and I'm already entergaged
Wow, very Entergaging video here Mr.Slime. I shall grant you one comment to improve the algorithm’s view of the video.
In fairness, the people convinceable in a debate is a VERY small portion of the population. Not enough to sway the election, compared to the outsized coverage and energy put into it. But within that population, the poll numbers show Trump's behavior didn't help him and actually did hurt. But that is a small slice of a tiny slice of the electorate and will have no real effect.
And it wouldn't be that surprising if they're exactly those centrists (or even moderate Republicans) who believe in The Process. Progressives who were already planning to hold their nose and vote not-Trump as a harm-reduction measure will probably not change their vote because they're mad about Biden following the rules too much.
I just drove 25 miles for nothing because the sales appointment I was supposed to have had been canceled by the client, which my office knew, but send me anyway in the hopes I could still get in.
But at least I get to listen to Stink Matt on the way back
Not going to lie I'm having to charge up my power like this is an anime before I can withstand the west wing speech.
Entergagement is happening.
Literally as soon as you said, "and he delivered the following shitty speech," a grubhub ad played yelling "baked pie, pad ti, iced chai..."
Just thought it was amazing timing
Comment for engagement or something wild like that idk
Reply for engagement or something wild like that I don't know
Reply
The first few times I have seen this comment I thought it was clever and funny and even I did it a couple times. But now I think it's kind of an insult. Matt put passion into his video essays, but you don't even have any legitimate engagement offer?
I do it for entergagement, myself
Reply to a comment because MEGA-ENGAGEMENT. This channel is getting people talking!
Finally someone's clowning on Sorkin
Chapo trap house have been doing it for years.
Edward .Gamble Chapo suck, though.
The world sucks but my cat is soft and warm.
!!!!!good!
I’m sitting here with my cat stretched out on top of me watching this video. King shit 👑
True, I know my cat is keeping my sanity in check.
My cat's breath smells like cat food
one of you better send photos of your cat
I used to really love the West wing.
I still like the fantasy.
This video is very good and valuable. I felt like Slime articulated the fears, suspicions and plain confusion swirling around in my head into something coherent and lasting and I feel relieved because of it, even if the problems described weren't alleviated. I now have a better understanding of the mysterious itch that's been haunting my sleep.
I laughed hard at "... that the world is controlled by competent people"
I love the West Wing, not because I ever thought it was at ALL realistic, but for the same reason I like Lord of the Rings. It is a nice fantasy world.
And like other fantasy worlds, the characters are not supposed to be always right or reflect the views of the author. And, like other fantasy, you can like it even if you don't like the author. Though there are potential limits, Ms. Rowling, though that is a more complicated discussion.
EXACTLY
Yeah. I love West Wing, too. Well, the Sorkin years anyway. And viewed it in a similar manner. Oddly, I think that some of Toby's arguments that ThoughtSlime critiques here were actually more properly addressed in an episode of a later Sorkin show, The Newsroom, that dealt with Occupy Wall Street. So perhaps some of Sorkin's political views have changed since his West Wing days? With that said, I thought The Newsroom was a wasted opportunity.
@@chujiwu68 It's also worth noting that Toby was explicitly wrong in that episode, as he is frequently. Toby frequently represents the kind of liberal point of view criticized here, while others, like CJ, Donna, and Joey are more progressive and Josh and Leo are far more open to aggressive realpolitik methods.
I happened to have rewatched this episode recently. The scene is early in the episode. The theme of the episode is learning to see the world differently and change your mind (in one portion, that is very literal). And Toby at first sees the protests as a distraction, but comes to see it as a more valuable expression of the same kind of speech happening in the White House. It is FAR from a perfect depiction, but that speech is not really the best example of the show's own views.
@@Sam_on_RUclips Ah, great point. I thought about getting into that a bit more, but 1)I hadn't seen the show in ages and 2)I was trying to keep my comment as short as possible.
I think the B-plot of that episode involved a more accurate version of the world map, right (haha)?
@@chujiwu68 Yep. That's my favorite B-plot in the entire series.
West Wing depresses me now
that show has always made me cringe
I've been listening to the West Wing Thing for the last couple weeks. :P Really shocking to see how that fantasy world transformed into liberal policy. D: Like when Biden said on the Debate, "We're going to make [however many] good-paying green jobs... Not $15 an hour jobs, but good jobs," I screamed at the TV, "That's the West Wing! It's not a good-paying job if it doesn't pay a living wage, you idiot!"
Re: Teaching/grading/the education system as a whole; read Pedagogy of the Oppressed (Paulo Friere) and Teaching to Transgress (bell hooks)!
I love the things your face does when you're being sarcastic.
Is “da process” a reference to “da rules” from The Fairly Odd Parents?
OH GOD I HAVE ALWAYS HATED THE WEST WING.
👋 Hey Mr PZ
13:46 good gawd, I never noticed how bloodshot Trump's eyes were in that image. He really does do drugs.
that “quirky aunt” IS MY MOM SO NOW I HAVE A SLIME CERTIFIED COOL MOM
except she’s even better she supports bernie
You should watch Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister to see how it properly works! 😂
That show is a lot more enjoyable and insightful than West Wing, but it often veers pretty close to Thatcherite propaganda, where the government is inherently incapable of solving problems, and whenever it _seems_ to be trying to help it's actually some taxpayer money-wasting ploy by a smug career bureaucrat.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs it's literally consists of constant criticism of neo-liberalism so, I'm genuinely confused how in the world, what you say is possible.
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs can you delete your comment as you are spreading misinformation, and I don't want that on my post.
Get em with that eyeball SICKO MODE
I've got to say, as a liberal, the last couple years has turned me around on this.
I appreciate the comedic timing of the ad breaks
That "free trade stops wars!" line was pretty indoctrinating to me when I was a liberal.
I think there's a better rebuttal to it than you gave in this video though. I don't think the position is that the simple existence of free trade will end all war. The point is that free trade between individual nations supposedly "prevents" war.
The thing is, if you dig a little deeper, what you find is the US imposing austerity on poor nations through predatory lending, it's not "free" in any sense of the word. And if a country won't do the trading with the US, then *the US* will do the invading with that country, either directly or by proxy.
So "free trade stops wars" coming from a white house official is super sinister. It's basically, "Nice country you got there. Nice resources. I'd hate for something bad to happen to it."
God it's so sad to be hearing this truth that I and many others had to learn the hard way over the last 4 years
8:57 this is one of the big sellers to me of this as a neoliberal fantasy
Both parties must compromise or else risk losing the seat at the table
It keeps them from the rightward tilt that neoliberalism has taken when conservatives refuse to compromise and do not lose their power and neoliberals respond to this but compromising more so to the conservatives or just doing what the conservatives wanted in the first place
The ratchet model of political drift. Repubs are the ratchet that grabs the gear and forces it a step to the right. Dems are the pawl that locks the teeth and prevents any opposite motion back to the left. They are, at best, a drag anchor. At worst they help row a bit. One way or another though, the bow of the ship always points right
I loved west wing with a passion. Then i grew up.
I watched WW when I was a lot younger and took it as fiction, being from the UK. Was very worrying to see how many americans thought the real world works that way
Sorkin’s show is the dream of good government, and we all know what Carlin said about dreams
I'm gonna have to share this, I've been trying to find the right words to express this for months, & have been consistently disappointed with my results.
I always felt that House of Cards was the better Westwing. The personal moral failings of the protagonist's actor aside.
i love how often i have a thought and then about a week later our slime overlord makes a video about it :)
2:54 Putting the ad right here. Brilliant. 👏👏👏
The one dislike is... idk frankly.
The video is 22 minutes long and it was posted 3 minutes ago so you can't blame me for not watching. I just wanted to make the joke while it's still relevant. I'm only 15 seconds in
OMG THAT WAS FAST
Anyway, I have something to do. Brb
Wow, where has this channel been? Cool beans
If you want to know how bad the west wing truly is I recommend watching the podcast “The West Wing Thing with Josh and Dave”
For the past 7 minutes I've been trying to figure out where I know that actor from and then it just hit me when he raised his voice that "OH MY GOD, HE'S FROM THE GOOD DOCTOR." I know that's not important but I'm angry with myself that it took me so long to realize what I was recognizing him from.
As a sixers fan trust the process is a holy phrase that must not be taken in vain
I have to agree
Isn't this the third process you've been asked to trust now?
Matthew Roberts it’s gonna work this time I swear
What gets me about The West Wing is that it's basically platform-independent. You could do a show exactly like that set in pretty much any régime you want to look good, and it would work, because the basic messages are the basic messages of official propaganda no matter where you go: our rulers are wise and benevolent, and they have risen to the top because they are better than you.
Just to test this premise, I actually cut together a montage of selected scenes from 'Downfall' with the West Wing title theme a few weeks ago, and it fucking worked. I'd upload it to my channel, but I think that should get be DMCA'd before it even finished processing for SD.
Why did you have to zoom in on Donny’s mouth, why
Because the sweet sweet covid living in there.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Coronagood!
Thought slime AND renegade cut dropping new videos on the same day?
"that's good shit!"
I feel like I need to re-watch The West Wing now that I'm a cynical hate-filled husk. I do hope you lose your bet, though.
please don't. it's torture.
I think shows like that are perfectly fine to watch and generally entertaining. As long as you never try to relate it to the real world. Just suspend your disbelief and assume it takes place in an alternate universe where 'Da System' actually works.
...And where important people happen to have light skin, I guess...
@@SubjectiveObserver i'd rather not. because it still paints a false picture that Da System works, just needs the 'right people'. Da System doesn't work in favour of truth, justice and all things good. it never has, it never will.
@@phangkuanhoong7967 I feel like you missed my point. Or didn't acknowledge it. I watch shows about intergalactic space exploration, giant humanoid robots, characters who have deep philosophical debates while in the middle of a sword fight. Many of the strategies and solutions presented in fiction are obviously useless in reality. You can still enjoy it as a *fantasy* where problems are solved in fun or satisfying ways.
And it's an opportunity to hear various arguments presented by the writers and compare them to your own views.
But if you're not interested in watching it, that's fine too. I spend more time reading books or playing video games than watching tv. Television shows never bother to write satisfying endings... They just keep pumping out seasons until the audience gets bored...
@@SubjectiveObserver sorry, but you cannot equate a work of fiction that has a real world setting AND the creators explicitly state that this is their idealized version of Da System, and then treat it as pure fantasy. it simply isn't. fictional settings like this shapes the audience perception of the real world and Da System. it's the reason why cop shows are copaganda that ultimately influences how people view the police as an institution. Stuff like West Wing isn't pure fantasy. it's ideological, whether the creator realizes it or not, or whether it's done intentionally or not. Sorkin pushes a liberal worldview with incredible ignorance of a great many subjects his shows touch on. it's never pure fantasy. it just can't be.
We're not talking about space operas here.
If I remember correctly since the inception of rhetoric as a thing one can do in ancient greece, people have been very aware of the fact that one can argue for anything successfully, no matter how untrue or deceptive, by using rhetoric devices. It's not a battle of ideas or a search for truth, it's a contest of grammar. Does Aaron Sorkin know that? Does he care?
Mind you I come from a country where debate clubs in schools are not a thing as they apparently are in US and Canada.
hello thought slime!! serendipitous refreshing of youtube brought me here :)
Same
TGITS amiright?
Human intelligence is usually general, and there's people with more general intelligence than other people. How else do you explain that some kids suffer from boredom if they're in normal classes and are happy in accelerated classes, while other same-age kids find normal classes adequately challenging?
I'll agree that other factors affecting the way a person speaks make it nearly impossible to tell how intelligent they are from their word choice and sentence structure. But just because some unpleasant people use human general intelligence as an excuse to do bad things doesn't mean it's not real.
I was bored to death in supposedly honors classes. You know why? Because of the way it was taught. There was nothing to draw me in, and all the interesting stuff I had already dug into elsewhere, years earlier in fact, just out of sheer curiousity. It's not just the content, either -- the method was 90% memorization, and the difference between regular and honors classes was primarily the quantity of work. Were they challenging, though? Well, yes -- it tends to be pretty challenging to learn to read the minds of test-makers to figure out which of the three correct answers on a multiple choice question they actually want you to pick so you can get credit. I was good at figuring out from context what they wanted me to pick, but not because of some general intelligence thingy there either -- that specific skill is just something I find easier to deal with than many others, primarily because I've required it for day-to-day interactions my entire life. Necessity's a pretty effective, if extremely unpleasant, teacher. Overall, the entire concept of general intelligence appears to be a load of absolute nonsense created from attempts to simplify reality well beyond the point where it even makes any practical sense to do so.
Being an only child, I was ahead of classes when I was very young because I got education from my father. I was subsequently very bored for a very long time. Eventually classes caught up and I was behind for a time. People have mental resources and they go where they're needed - be it surviving home life, keeping up with school work or figuring out social relationships. How they perform or concern themselves with school would be terrible metrics for evaluating variations in natural capacity, to whatever extent they might exist.
Commenting to please the algorithm in all its wisdom and justice.
please do not look away from, THE PROCESS