I think another aspect of why the episode starts with Nat and ends with her is because she‘s pregnant and the question becomes breaking the cycle or passing on generational trauma
Wow yes, great point!! In the Fishes episode I felt we got more clarity on Natalie's place in the family - to me she comes off as the cycle breaker; the one who wants to do things against the family dynamic/differently to reach a healthier place.
As someone who grew up in a simmering traumatic family dynamic, left home for the military, and then came back to things even more fucked up than before, its a fucking jarring experience. Everyone else stayed home so they've acclimated to the environment, nothing surprises them. When you come back home, its like another chunk has been bitten out of your family dynamic, a giant, bloody gaping hole, and everyone is just actively ignoring it and pretending everything is fine.
the best part about the seven fishes story is that through all the different perspectives of what the meal is about it always boils down to what each person brings to the table. Everybody should bring something to the table but that can only happen if the owner of said table lets them help.
Yeesssss exactly!! I think Fishes is almost like a summary of what the whole show is about. Donna didn't let anyone help her or bring anything for dinner, and the whole show is about if Carmy will become like her or break that cycle and accept help, not try to be perfect, and let other people shine.
Great vid- what i liked is when Carmy is looking at the canoli he is so still and slowly turning red- a great nod to the mentions in series that he forgets to breath sometimes under stress which we now know is another thing brought about by his family
Lee's vendetta against Mikey started earlier in the episode. Lee was behaving in a creepy way around Donna, kinda like he might try to take advantage of her drunken state. Mikey walks in, sees this, and responds like this is a pattern of behavior. "You're a mess, Lee." After that, Lee's just looking for a *reason* to tear down Mikey. Like telling a humorous story at a family gathering to an audience that admitted to having not actually heard it before.
I really loved how they followed this episode, which was one of the most emotionally traumatic things I've ever seen on screen, with forks, which is one of the most joyful things I've ever seen on screen. This show, man.
My Mother's full blooded Italian. I believe narcissitic. Total childhood trauma. Her name is Donna. Maiden last Italian name starts with a B. It's like scary. The accurary of the dysfunctional Italian family. My grandparents were alcoholics. Maybe it's why I am so obsessed with this show and JAW's acting.
Maybe, Natalie saying that you can’t make anyone act a certain way really IS a way of coping for her. I think she feels kinda responsible to try and fix things with Donna, helping her in the kitchen, but if Nat were to embrace the thought that you actually CAN influence others, it would make her feel obligated to try and fix her family, which is… well, not an easy task. So yeah, maybe it’s what Nat says to herself to cope. Just a thought. BTW, great video! Pretty sure you’re about to become huge; your understanding of these characters is really good, as well as of the show’s visual symbolism.
Ya I think it's healthy that she is trying to remind herself that she is not to blame for how her mother treats her. But it's also ironic because their families dysfunction make them all act out these patterns.
I agree with both your points. I really feel for Natalie watching her mother self-destructing and finding it hard not to ask if Donna is okay. The nickname Sugar and its origins, plus Nat's attitude toward the restaurant and her behaviour when she's with her family, suggests to me that she can't take not helping her family, yet doesn't know how to help them (note: not her responsbility) and is afraid to make things worse after past incidents.
Also how Nat gets on Camry about not having enough forks for the restaurant, and how Richie is assigned to clean forks in the next ep “Forks”. What’s the symbolism?
@@TheEcon20 first thing that comes to mind is “fork in the road”, since we focus on Mikey’s choice to throw it or not, Carmy’s choice to order enough or not, and Richies choice to respect it or not. Idk if that’s anything
That "are you okay" at the table reminded me of the scene between Carmy and Sugar when they were hunting for tax receipts. She says to her brother "You never ask if I'm okay." After Carmy explains why he can't bring himself to ask her, he digs in deep to ready himself to bear the answer to the question she longs for him to ask. And what does Sugar do? She brushes him off with a "I'm fine" and lets the moment pass.
Yeah, I love this point - I think once she got what she wanted and finally heard him ask, she knew/felt that Carmy couldn't take what she would really want to say and backed down because she couldn't bear to burden him.
Your first point on Michael sending the Faks into busy Donna- That feels like something a person could do subconsciously, as it's something they've gotten used to doing.
Honestly, Mama Berzatto, to me, shows many signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. The outbursts of rage, intense emotions (especially of anger, sadness, bitterness, and loneliness), seeing everything as a rejection. It absolutely broke my heart when she begged Pete not to tell them she wa there, because she genuinely believes her children are better off without her, and that she will never be a good enough or worthy mother for them to love her. She hates herself more than anyone i have ever seen.
Man, it’s crazy too, my mom is bpd im pretty sure. Not diagnosed and obviously I’m not a doctor, but she very heavily shows signs. Donna is insanely accurate to how my mom used to act. This complex of like, she does everything for everyone and gets nothing in return. Anyway, family events were almost never fun, almost always ended in fights, even Christmas!! This show really threw me back into all that, which is why it’s so incredible.
I don't think Mikey's anger towards Lee is only building up because of the comments towards him... in a very puppet-master-y moment Mikey is around Lee and Donna when he's trying to get her into his shady business stuff he knows he doesn't appreciate her, so when Lee says that at the dinner table so nonchalantly he snaps
idk if anyone else commented about it but donna asking carmy “do we have a problem?” isn’t an antagonistic question. it’s donna asking his son if he has the same problems that she does, which is paired really well with richie’s characterization of carmy in 2x10 with the splitscreen freezer scene
Your analysis (both here and in Achieving Excellence, Fearing Joy) is so wise and excellent. Your emotional intelligence is simply amazing--I would love to know what inspires these insights. As Syd's dad would say, these videos are "the thing." Hopefully you have many future posts in the works!
I'm from dysfunctional family, my father was an alcoholic, so I can see myself in Nat. She feels responsible for peace, she is putting everyone else first, she tries to fix this dynamic so of course she asks if Donna's okay in this peak moment. She maybe even knows it won't help, because in past it maybe led to more problems. But just like every time they promise they will stop drinking you hope that this time will be different. This time all will be well.
my pov on the nat emphasis is that in current days she is preggo meaning shes the first of the bears to make a new generatjon of this family. i think shes scared that she could be a not great mom or that she'll be doing it without her mom which hurts but feels necessary or that the crazy will emerge once the babe is born. im sure she was planning on telling Donna about the baby on f&f night. shes comitted to be involved in this resto that has been nothing but struggle and trauma for her, a place she never wanted to be. shes also been the only one in contact with their mom since mikeys death. i love abby's portrayal.
Remember that time Richie almost killed a guy and we just never talked about it again? XD Edited to add: This episode gave me flashbacks to all the holidays with my crazy ex in-laws. I was basically Pete walking into the warzone completely oblivious, but I was married to Carm, my MIL was Donna and my SIL was Nat. Divorce can be a beautiful thing.
I love Jamie Lee Curtis man and no joke this maybe one of my favourite performances from her. Between this, "The Bear" and "Ice Chips" man she runs the whole range
seeing all the little things you caught that just like absolutely fucken soared right over my precious lil babybrained head makes me wanna go back for a rewatch when i get the time. really really good analysis of some of the more ambiguous plot points as well. you're definitely gonna hit a tipping point and gain a ton of subscribers if you keep making videos so keep up the great work and let it rip!
Just finished s2 last night.. that was GOOD tv.. the conversations felt real and genuine.. like they were conversations you could actually see or have in real life.. chaotic, self centered, deflecting, random topics, nervousness, doubt, misunderstanding, silent moments, feeling unheard.. so many more that a real person has experienced themselves. Nat’s saying of you can’t make someone do something is both right and wrong I think. People will act how they’re doing to act with or without influence but WHO the words are coming from can play a huge part in how it all plays out. But damn was I stressed tf out watching this show 😂
The scene with Mikey and Carmy at the pantry always gets the vision blurry. Watching Mikey see the effects of his addiction on others even without them knowing but being helpless to stop it
yo you're incredible, don't stop doing what you're doing this is great work!! I have: ✅smashed the subscribe button ✅hit that like ✅rang that bell hope to see lots more videos from you in the future!
eu poderia assistir você falar sobre essa série por mais 10 vídeos de 40 minutos. Tudo que você falou é relevante para o entendimento de diferentes perspectivas do que acontece na série.
I know you said you didn't want to diagnose Donna, so I'm just going to mention the terms "covert narcissism" and "vulnerable narcissism" totally apropos of nothing 🙃
![VENEZUELA vs. ARGENTINA [1-1] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SJfoPdeOPCQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The 8th fish is the fun we had along the way
And that makes us assholes
and the tuna casserole of course
And so it was thrown out of the main exit
I thought it was splatted all over the front stoop.
Who brought the 8th Fish 🐟? LOL 🤣
I think another aspect of why the episode starts with Nat and ends with her is because she‘s pregnant and the question becomes breaking the cycle
or passing on generational trauma
You're a genius for this
Wow yes, great point!! In the Fishes episode I felt we got more clarity on Natalie's place in the family - to me she comes off as the cycle breaker; the one who wants to do things against the family dynamic/differently to reach a healthier place.
As someone who grew up in a simmering traumatic family dynamic, left home for the military, and then came back to things even more fucked up than before, its a fucking jarring experience. Everyone else stayed home so they've acclimated to the environment, nothing surprises them. When you come back home, its like another chunk has been bitten out of your family dynamic, a giant, bloody gaping hole, and everyone is just actively ignoring it and pretending everything is fine.
the best part about the seven fishes story is that through all the different perspectives of what the meal is about it always boils down to what each person brings to the table. Everybody should bring something to the table but that can only happen if the owner of said table lets them help.
Damn 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Yeesssss exactly!! I think Fishes is almost like a summary of what the whole show is about. Donna didn't let anyone help her or bring anything for dinner, and the whole show is about if Carmy will become like her or break that cycle and accept help, not try to be perfect, and let other people shine.
unless you bring tuna salad to the table, because then you're calling everyone at the table an asshole apparently
Great vid- what i liked is when Carmy is looking at the canoli he is so still and slowly turning red- a great nod to the mentions in series that he forgets to breath sometimes under stress which we now know is another thing brought about by his family
holy shit I never noticed this!!
Lee's vendetta against Mikey started earlier in the episode. Lee was behaving in a creepy way around Donna, kinda like he might try to take advantage of her drunken state. Mikey walks in, sees this, and responds like this is a pattern of behavior. "You're a mess, Lee." After that, Lee's just looking for a *reason* to tear down Mikey. Like telling a humorous story at a family gathering to an audience that admitted to having not actually heard it before.
I really loved how they followed this episode, which was one of the most emotionally traumatic things I've ever seen on screen, with forks, which is one of the most joyful things I've ever seen on screen. This show, man.
My Mother's full blooded Italian. I believe narcissitic. Total childhood trauma. Her name is Donna. Maiden last Italian name starts with a B. It's like scary. The accurary of the dysfunctional Italian family. My grandparents were alcoholics. Maybe it's why I am so obsessed with this show and JAW's acting.
Maybe, Natalie saying that you can’t make anyone act a certain way really IS a way of coping for her. I think she feels kinda responsible to try and fix things with Donna, helping her in the kitchen, but if Nat were to embrace the thought that you actually CAN influence others, it would make her feel obligated to try and fix her family, which is… well, not an easy task. So yeah, maybe it’s what Nat says to herself to cope. Just a thought. BTW, great video! Pretty sure you’re about to become huge; your understanding of these characters is really good, as well as of the show’s visual symbolism.
Ya I think it's healthy that she is trying to remind herself that she is not to blame for how her mother treats her. But it's also ironic because their families dysfunction make them all act out these patterns.
I agree with both your points. I really feel for Natalie watching her mother self-destructing and finding it hard not to ask if Donna is okay. The nickname Sugar and its origins, plus Nat's attitude toward the restaurant and her behaviour when she's with her family, suggests to me that she can't take not helping her family, yet doesn't know how to help them (note: not her responsbility) and is afraid to make things worse after past incidents.
Will Poulter really arrived for me in We’re the Millers.
“what’s up, eyebrows?” lol
I wanna talk about the parallels of the spoon/forks thrown and when Camry throws the sharpie as Sydney is leaving the beef
Also how Nat gets on Camry about not having enough forks for the restaurant, and how Richie is assigned to clean forks in the next ep “Forks”. What’s the symbolism?
@@TheEcon20 first thing that comes to mind is “fork in the road”, since we focus on Mikey’s choice to throw it or not, Carmy’s choice to order enough or not, and Richies choice to respect it or not. Idk if that’s anything
That "are you okay" at the table reminded me of the scene between Carmy and Sugar when they were hunting for tax receipts.
She says to her brother "You never ask if I'm okay."
After Carmy explains why he can't bring himself to ask her, he digs in deep to ready himself to bear the answer to the question she longs for him to ask. And what does Sugar do? She brushes him off with a "I'm fine" and lets the moment pass.
Yeah, I love this point - I think once she got what she wanted and finally heard him ask, she knew/felt that Carmy couldn't take what she would really want to say and backed down because she couldn't bear to burden him.
Your first point on Michael sending the Faks into busy Donna- That feels like something a person could do subconsciously, as it's something they've gotten used to doing.
Honestly, Mama Berzatto, to me, shows many signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. The outbursts of rage, intense emotions (especially of anger, sadness, bitterness, and loneliness), seeing everything as a rejection. It absolutely broke my heart when she begged Pete not to tell them she wa there, because she genuinely believes her children are better off without her, and that she will never be a good enough or worthy mother for them to love her. She hates herself more than anyone i have ever seen.
Man, it’s crazy too, my mom is bpd im pretty sure. Not diagnosed and obviously I’m not a doctor, but she very heavily shows signs. Donna is insanely accurate to how my mom used to act. This complex of like, she does everything for everyone and gets nothing in return. Anyway, family events were almost never fun, almost always ended in fights, even Christmas!! This show really threw me back into all that, which is why it’s so incredible.
I don't think Mikey's anger towards Lee is only building up because of the comments towards him... in a very puppet-master-y moment Mikey is around Lee and Donna when he's trying to get her into his shady business stuff
he knows he doesn't appreciate her, so when Lee says that at the dinner table so nonchalantly he snaps
idk if anyone else commented about it but donna asking carmy “do we have a problem?” isn’t an antagonistic question. it’s donna asking his son if he has the same problems that she does, which is paired really well with richie’s characterization of carmy in 2x10 with the splitscreen freezer scene
i had zero clue it was an hour and ive watched it twice, i loved it
Your analysis (both here and in Achieving Excellence, Fearing Joy) is so wise and excellent. Your emotional intelligence is simply amazing--I would love to know what inspires these insights. As Syd's dad would say, these videos are "the thing." Hopefully you have many future posts in the works!
I'm from dysfunctional family, my father was an alcoholic, so I can see myself in Nat. She feels responsible for peace, she is putting everyone else first, she tries to fix this dynamic so of course she asks if Donna's okay in this peak moment. She maybe even knows it won't help, because in past it maybe led to more problems. But just like every time they promise they will stop drinking you hope that this time will be different. This time all will be well.
my pov on the nat emphasis is that in current days she is preggo meaning shes the first of the bears to make a new generatjon of this family. i think shes scared that she could be a not great mom or that she'll be doing it without her mom which hurts but feels necessary or that the crazy will emerge once the babe is born. im sure she was planning on telling Donna about the baby on f&f night. shes comitted to be involved in this resto that has been nothing but struggle and trauma for her, a place she never wanted to be. shes also been the only one in contact with their mom since mikeys death. i love abby's portrayal.
i grew up with a narcissistic mother. this episode destroyed me, it’s scary how realistic it is
Loved that episode of the Bear and your thoughts on it. It is such a great series with amazing writing and acting.
Remember that time Richie almost killed a guy and we just never talked about it again? XD
Edited to add: This episode gave me flashbacks to all the holidays with my crazy ex in-laws. I was basically Pete walking into the warzone completely oblivious, but I was married to Carm, my MIL was Donna and my SIL was Nat. Divorce can be a beautiful thing.
I love Jamie Lee Curtis man and no joke this maybe one of my favourite performances from her. Between this, "The Bear" and "Ice Chips" man she runs the whole range
I just watched this episode for the first time and did not realize that it was an hour long until you said so - i was just hooked the entire time
This is the kind of analysis that the bear deserves
We're all just Pete walking into this world.
Brilliant Insights - Psychologically Aware - Hilariously Presented. MANY thanx! 😘
seeing all the little things you caught that just like absolutely fucken soared right over my precious lil babybrained head makes me wanna go back for a rewatch when i get the time. really really good analysis of some of the more ambiguous plot points as well. you're definitely gonna hit a tipping point and gain a ton of subscribers if you keep making videos so keep up the great work and let it rip!
i actually dont think i even noticed it was an hour long until you pointed it out for me just now, i watched this when it came out
I like how you explain the things
Just finished s2 last night.. that was GOOD tv.. the conversations felt real and genuine.. like they were conversations you could actually see or have in real life.. chaotic, self centered, deflecting, random topics, nervousness, doubt, misunderstanding, silent moments, feeling unheard.. so many more that a real person has experienced themselves. Nat’s saying of you can’t make someone do something is both right and wrong I think. People will act how they’re doing to act with or without influence but WHO the words are coming from can play a huge part in how it all plays out. But damn was I stressed tf out watching this show 😂
Subscribed because of the Bob's your uncle joke LOL
This is a good analysis and I dig your dry sense of humor.
i wish this video was an hour long, i yearn for the long format content
Took me about 36 mins to realize how long that episode was
These videos are amazing and are super important in understanding myself as I follow the character development of the characters in the bear. ❤
I was looking for a detailed, insightful analysis! Thank you, hope you keep posting ❤️
Great video, thanks! Really appreciate your insight, I feel like I'll pick up on a lot more when I rewatch The Bear.
Once again so impressed with your thoughts! Great work
I just found your channel and absolutely love your videos. Keep it up!!
Awesome show! Great job Liv, love your insights.
"awe he's into his wife" lmao.
Speaking for myself I haven’t seen this take in the movie yet and I enjoyed every second
Bandersnatch Will Poulter. Excellent insights!
Wow. This is really brilliant. Like I had to quit watching the app on my TV to tell you how good this was. Ya kinda blew my mind.
The scene with Mikey and Carmy at the pantry always gets the vision blurry. Watching Mikey see the effects of his addiction on others even without them knowing but being helpless to stop it
Your deadpan delivery brilliantly contrasts the intense, manic energy of this episode. Great vid
These videos are phenomenal KEEP IT UP!!
Really looking forward to hearing your analysis of Season 3.
Your observation skills and intelligence are both endearing and intimidating.
I went No Contact with my Narcissistic relatives. If anyone else asks “why”, I’ll tell them to watch the Fishes Episode.
Great analysis. Thank you for the video.
I never knew that it was an hour long episode.
Such a fantastic insightful video, I loved this so much.
i found out the episode was an hour long when you said it was an hour long. i was too captivated to notice.
Not sure if anyone commented in the first 4 months of this being up but Bob Odenkirk also lived in Chicago before he was a famous actor
I actually didn’t realize this episode was an hour long, or even longer than the other episodes.
Wow Liv, I’m so impressed by you!
I'm midsommar Will Poulter
The, Narnia - Maze Runner - The Bear Will Poulter timeline is real
It’s crazy that nobody even knows the Seven 7️⃣ Fishes 🐟 symbolizes the 7 Sacraments! lol
LIV WE'LL NEED A SEASON 3 ANALYSIS ONE DAY YOU'RE STILL ONE OF MY FAV RUclipsRSSS
beautiful analysis
I was 48-49 minutes into Fishes before I realized
It would've been so touching if after gonna stormed off , uncle Lee said "I'm sorry Mikey..."
You’re so funny this was such a great video!
yo you're incredible, don't stop doing what you're doing this is great work!! I have:
✅smashed the subscribe button
✅hit that like
✅rang that bell
hope to see lots more videos from you in the future!
Please make moreee of these videoss for more movies and series
My favorite moment is mikey in the closet crying cause he knows the only way his brothers dream gets to live is if he dies.
Donna is literally my mother LMAO
This one also slapped. Onto ur EEAAO vid…
eu poderia assistir você falar sobre essa série por mais 10 vídeos de 40 minutos. Tudo que você falou é relevante para o entendimento de diferentes perspectivas do que acontece na série.
I know you said you didn't want to diagnose Donna, so I'm just going to mention the terms "covert narcissism" and "vulnerable narcissism" totally apropos of nothing 🙃
you might be a genius
Lol. I literally keep saying, is that so and so, is that so and so, is that so and so
Going to admit I know will poultry as that guy from the you got payed? Meme
“Will Poultry,” LOL.
SARAH PAULSON. JAMIE LEE CURTIS
augh, he’s into his wife. that’s weird
:)
Don’t be a Donna
29:42 bruh
Jmjs
stop
I'm also a Narnia turned Maze Runner Will Poulter knower! And I still can't handle the sudden attraction to him I developed during the Bear.😅
same, I think it's the cooking, anytime I see a man cook in a movie I'm instantly attracted haha