Brilliant videos, with probably 99 percent of what Dave says being agreed with by most good sparks. However, I fail to understand why he did not take guidance from napit codebreakers regarding rcds for cables less than 50mm. Dave often talks about potential of dodgy diy persons carrying out electrical work or not so smart picture hangers banging nails in cable. These and others are what i think napit are trying to protect. Im sure napit think that most landlords can afford a couple of hundred pounds to protect these people or maybe a child squirting its bottle into a side light to name a few of infinite possibilities. Yes, people can be careless, and your chain of thought would condemn these people to tragic accidents. Obviously much of what is in 18th would not be required on an older install. But rcds are probably the most cost effective way to save lives and have probably saved thousands of them around the world. So how do you know you are not contributing to killing someone in the next 5 years if you sign off all jobs like this when you could just have easily sided with napits common sense approach instead of doing the bare minimum in the way of improvements. You have the camera so can easily ridicule the statement, but think you may one day see the light on this one.
Thanks for watching Daniel. Personally, I agree that RCD protection is a must-have; the point of discussion being however that failing an installation for not having such is to take a personal stance and isn't one that's backed up by what the guidance and regulatory requirements demand. That can lead to other sorts of problems. If a landlord, letting agency or client feels short changed because they have an unsatisfactory report based on my personal preference, then they may make a complaint where I don't have the backing of my CPS. Some EICRs are hostile; one may be undertaken on behalf of a buyer on a property where the seller is still resident. I've been in that position, and the seller was openly antagonistic. His assumption was that I was looking for ways to find fault to allow my client to drive the asking price down, so I had to ensure my report was on the level and by the book. I would much prefer it if the book stated clearly that RCD protection is required for retrofit on older installations. It doesn't. So, you take a stance or you go by the numbers, and the result is an inconsistent service received by the client between different inspectors. Also, NAPIT Codebreakers isn't as black-and-white as it appears. I contacted them about the C2 for cables buried in walls and was basically told that on an EICR you'll be putting LIM in that box unless you have X-ray vision to be able to see the cables in the walls and verify their depth. It's apparently only a C2 where you can see evidence that cables are buried at less than 50mm without RCD protection such as a visible out-of-zone wall chase, some obvious iffy filling, back to back plasterboard partitions etc. Even if I know that upgrading is directly beneficial to to my client's safety, I can't force them to do it. My job is to put them in an informed position and to make my recommendations by-the-book and as strongly as I can. They'll make their own mental risk assessment of whether the cost and effort are justified, and if they don't go ahead, it may well be a decision they come to regret. Nevertheless, it is ultimately their decision to make, not mine.
@@dsesuk Hi Dave, I think lively debates a good thing, but a lot of people are listening to you and you could make a real difference on saving lives here. Its something that napit have clearly given c2 for great reasons. You took the socket off, you said it had a rubber grommet. Therefore you would have known if the cables were less than 2 inches, and let's face it 90 percent of domestic cables won't have metal conduit and will be less than 50mm.
Ps guidance note 3 allows you to use your professional judgement, and I've never had a come back from nic on this one! P. S im qs with same qualifications as you, in the game 38 years (-:
Yes, and if those cables we're assuming are buried at under 50mm are also assumed to be in prescribed zones, then that supposedly forms a level of protection. Even if NAPIT did have a hard-on for a C2, NICEIC, ECA and Electrical Safety First don't. As for my influence on others, as I said in the video, if you want to have your own position on RCDs, that's fine so long as you're upfront about it. But that and any other thing an inspector doesn't like about older installations, now or in the future, be it plastic switchgear enclosures, the absence of SPDs or AFDDs or whatever aren't supposed to be things we get to pick or choose whether we pass or fail. That's the meat of the discussion - different people drawing a line in the sand in different places without the clients knowing of these preconceptions when they book someone in. It would be wrong if I appeared on RUclips telling everyone to C2 anything without an RCD and to please think of the children, even if I think it's right.
@@dsesuk i guess we will agree to disagree. Fir me its going to be, if a back box is sunk in at normal depth then i know cables are less then 2 inches, and i will go with napit tech team and help save some lives. Not cos I wear a halo, but because its legitamately within my means and I find it foolish to do otherwise.
This is exactly what needs to be said and indeed shouted at every electrician, landlord, person who orders the work, client, president, dog walker or racing pigeon owner. Basically anyone! The industry and the general public need a clear path through the minefield of EICRs, legislation, statutory and non statutory and what can sometimes look like only a specialist few are allowed in the club of understanding! 99.9% of the community will thank and reward you for your support and guidance towards the dark arts of Inspection and testing. Personally I'm just glad the message is out there and I appreciate the time, effort and alcohol that has gone into your videos.
Kudos to both of you I am happy they are thinkers in this trade in the UK, sensible and articulate and are able to see through the regulatory dynamics. David one area and its one you have groaned about (rightly so) the poor quality of light fittings - you are fitting many devices which are poorly designed and often really don’t even meet the standards they are labeled to meet (eg double insulated) what little things are you doing to make it safer - care around terminations and connections, testing including earthing assessment, correct RCD tripping on such circuits if they exist. That would be a good one to do and it would give you an opportunity to vent but I think it’s a really important one as manufacturing standards for such devices are so poor, often more thought is given to the external design (while important for aesthetics) but equally there should be as thought given to the internal wiring and safety of the luminaire. If electricians are highlighting these issues I believe manufacturers will take more care in production testing methods with more realistic testing approaches that match actual installation settings. Here in the USA regulation is much more voluntary - some thing called the 4th amendment kicks in you can’t completely mandate for it for a householder to carry it out. I see so many poorly manufactured wired lighting devices it’s a scandal and lack of insulated surface transitions and lack of fire rating is a a real worry. Top man and good guy and someone sorely needed in the industry who actually thinks.
@@mathman0101 Thanks Math Man for your contribution to this vid! The headache with lighting is that the pretty pendants tend to be made to accept either a single two-core flex or a single three-core earthed cable. In many instances, conductive metal fittings are parading as Class II because they come with a tiny connector block that will only meet the requirement for Class II *if* a single two-core flex terminates to it, but absolutely nobody has two-core flex popping out of their ceiling! There are steps diligent installers will take to work around the design flaws of the manufacturers and that may be external junctioning in a suitable enclosure (Wagobox, Quickwire In-Sure box etc.), oversleeving or heat-shrinking single-insulated wires and encapsulating connections to try and maintain double-insulation or fixing an earth wire to the luminaire to make it Class I. Sadly, many installers or DIY'ers haven't a clue though. They'll bin the little connector block and will fit a larger one with single insulation everywhere and exposed screw connections hovering around the metalwork; and at best they'll wrap it in a bit of electrical tape.
@@dsesuk That's the problem with the cheap as chips fittings being imported from China, they have passed all the electrical safety tests in some far off EU state with a far less vigourous testing regime than the UK they automatically get accreditation in the UK , its absolutely bonkers.
Amazing Dave, Never stop being you. The legislation is flawed and whilst an EICR is done using the current regs it doesn’t mean you have to code it all. I make SPDs an observation that’s someone may want in future not immediately or fail. If the CUs not metal. I check connections upon finish and advise observation for future. We need to use more engineering judgement not blanket code code code...
ben bill Checking tightness of ALL connections in CU is a mandatory check, see schedule of inspections 4.21 and good practice at all internally inspected accessories (5.17)
I'd pay you to do a full EICR purely for the banter in it. There is no comedian on telly at the moment as genuinely funny as you. The wit of wodehouse mixed with the vocab of a sailor with tourette's. Brilliant.
An EICR is like an MOT for the electrical installation (That's what I tell a lot of my customers). You can get an old motor not fitted with seatbelts or airbag, but it can still pass an MOT!
The MOT at least gives you specific dates for testable items. Such as daytime running lamps only needing tested on any modern car manufactured after on or after 1 March 2018. They should take advice from the MOT system and just say any domestic property built after X date needs RCD's etc. and not just hidden away on page 4892 in some book the fly by night electricians don't even read. David says "I'm not saying you have to know the older standards" this is kind of the problem. An MOT tester HAS to know when the car was built to carry out the correct tests. An electrician should know about these older standards and carry out only the tests that apply to those in which amendment period he discovers it to be. With any advisories to upgrade to a newer standard. How easy is it to determine when a property was built and what amendment it was designed around is another question.. I'm not sure if its possible to know for sure unlike cars also unlike cars there is no central database or standard of recording EICR's (different organisations giving contradictory failure codes) the MOT test is a lot more consistent as it forces a tester to pick from a database of failure items. He can't just write any old shit in and fail it like you can with an EICR. Also the public can look up the last 15? years of an MOT tests on any registered car online. You can't do that with EICR's. I think you have to request it from the electrician/landlord and who knows what you'll get back - if its even complete.... Lots of ways the EICR could be improved by looking at how the MOT system works.
@@averagemodernmale I disagree, many of the MOT regulations have tester discretion , take brake wear , if little old biddy does 500 miles a year , the vehicle itself is low milage then they wouldnt issue advisories for brakes 75% worn , if however she's doing 16000 miles a year they would issue an advisory A large oil leak is an mot failure a small oil leak isnt defining whats a pass whats advisory whats a fail is again tester descretion . My car failed because of the position of a number plate fixing , the plates were OEM , never changed yet the MOT station that had passed it previously failed it
Hi Dave, another great video again thanks. There is a nice paragraph on page 476 of BS7671, under guidance for the inspector, “Older installations designed prior to BS7671:2018 may not have been provided with RCDs for additional protection. The absence of such protection should as a minimum be given a code C3 classification (item 5.12)” so your interpretation of the regs is spot on. Keep up the good work
Now y'see, this is the reason why I like to paw through the comments on these vids as all sorts of interesting snippets pop up just like that! A good find, and I quite forgot the regs contained guidance notes for inspectors!
I am always amazed at how eloquently you explain things, either with or without the swearing. What you seem to have in abundance is the worlds most under used natural resource, Common Sense !
With all due respect to Mr.PinkWilly at 5:00 in I have been living next door to an elderly gentleman who had lived in his home since it was built in the 1930's. I have seen inside his house and ALL electrical fittings and fixtures were original. I am talking about a domino fuse box, twisted wire pairs on light fittings and wall switches. The switches being bakelite on a wood backing. The sockets round 3 pin bakelite types and no RCDs to be found anywhere. Not one incident has occurred in the 22 years I have lived here. Point being, sometimes things can work perfectly fine for years though I am fully aware of the old rubber coated wires that could perish over time and cause fires by shorting out. His wires had what looked like that stuff you get on Electric Iron cords. The house is up for auction now so good luck to the buyer getting that up to specs ha ha ha. Loved it when you told PW to STFU LOL :D Sending virtual non g manly hugs :D
Pretty good video. I work for a large building services contractor and do commercial / industrial projects. I personally don’t do EICR’s for domestic properties, but I always get the question from friends and family: do I need to change my board, do I need to get my whole house re-wired, do I need to get RCDs fitted to everything, is my board going to catch fire? I always reply: without looking at your installation, it’s hard to say, BUT, my answer is NO. Your installation is most likely fine as it is. Old doesn’t mean all of a sudden dangerous and condemned. I ask them to send me some photos of their board and intake and a few photos of the property. You can gauge pretty quickly if it’s really shoddy or old work or if it looks in reasonably good shape. Like you say, if the regs changed every 5 years, does that mean every property needs to be re-wired every 5 years? The electricians would be the richest people in the country.
David I have ‘invested’ far much time watching and being entertained by your videos and I feel I have learned a lot, I am not a domestic electrician but a time served marine engineer (now retired) so very well used to angry pixies and stuff that lets the smoke out. I think you are absolutely right about working to standards and not ‘personal preferences’ and being upfront with customers, in terms of doing any electrical work but particularly inspecting during EICRs. For reasons that are not exactly clear to me I have been thinking about the dilemma you have exposed especially with respect to the difference for homeowners and landlords. I have come to the conclusion that the fundamental problem is that not at all landlords are equal and there needs to be a re- definition of what a landlord actually is because there are two distinct types: Homeowners who are renting out their previous home for a limited time and Landlords who are renting more than one property as a business. So the former would need a ‘domestic EICR’ and the latter a ‘commercial EICR’ and the regulations could then more easily (and specifically) discriminate to the standards pertaining to each. Importantly there does also need to be an element of time to phase in improvements to more closely match industry capacity. Homeowners would clearly need to register with some sort of ‘shiny pant authority’ if they intended to rent out their property. I don’t profess to have ‘the’ answer just thinking out loud.
Dr Savery, as a stickler for the details I wish to raise one point regarding your 1st floor flat EICR. According to Part B, provided: Windows should have an unobstructed openable area of 0.33m2, a minimum height and width of 450mm and is a maximum of 1100mm above the internal floor to the windowsill These windows (ground and 1st floor up to 4.5m from ground level) actually form an escape route, thus the stairway is probably not the sole means of escape, although the end result in your EICR regarding plastic CU happens to be the same in this instance.
Most intriguing old boy. Although those with limited mobility may argue the toss about their ability to dive out of a first floor window. Still, if the bugger's on fire, I for one would be leaping headlong into the rose bushes below.
@@dsesuk Just seen this, can't think why it's taken me so long. All I've got to say is that if I dived out of our first floor window I'd land on some bloody hard paving slabs, no rose bushes around here 🥴
My first viewing of one of your videos Dave and I found it most entertaining and informative, as an ex-gasman and aspiring electrician, (controls only), I fully appreciated your interpretation of the new electric regs, which are at last beginning to catch up with the Gas safety regs. The video reminded me of the many discussions that we had in BG, this is before 1995, where I had 60 engineers who often viewed the regs in a slightly differing way, the challenge for me was to get some consistency and BG spent a shedload of money on training and guidance manuals for the whole variety of installations that our guys faced.
I am not a qualified sparky. I have no need to bebut it all makes sense what you say. I can't quote the regs word by word as it is not my day job. That flat is not unsafe. It can be improved. As you say RCD's should perhaps be recommended as a retro fit - indeed the code breakers book does cover this as C3. So long as the existing installation tests out to suitably take them and not introduce nuisance tripping. Older building with damp problems, slightly dodgy appliances with a small leakage. Not to mention borrowed neutrals on upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits which can cause havoc before RCD's were mainstream. RCD's don't pick up every fault condition but they are a pretty good start. Should we recommend all RCD's are now swapped to A type? If you look at which RCD you should have you should put in lots of different types according to the IET for all sorts of things which would mean running separate circuits - electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/77-september-2019/which-rcd-type/ Plastic consumer units are not a problem. Many were badly fitted and even now they still will be. Yes, there is a potential as the over current device will be much higher rated before it could cut but poor connections in face plates can still cause issues. How many ring final faults are caused by the fact that by their design you have to break the ring to test it for continuity? Don't put the connections back properly which is the bit you can't properly test and you introduce the over current risk. Certain things from old regs are dangerous like rubber cabling and should be pulled up. Should an older standard have to be re-wired because the lighting circuits are split up and down, rather than front rear, which is something to consider at the time of design to allow for lighting in the event of a fault and a protective device tripping? The list goes on. Another debate are smoke alarms. They should in my opinion always go on to a well used lighting circuit to prevent them being unpowered for long periods of time and their battery backup being removed. www.tester.co.uk/blog/electrical/keeping-abreast-of-the-wiring-regulations-3rd-amendment/ is interesting. What caused the spike of fires? It was apparently the loose connection of terminals inside. Sure, metal units in theory will contain the fire but doesn't prevent the issue of them starting. And torquing down of the terminals in a CU? What about a 20 or 32 amp final running at load with poor connections on the accessory plates causing hot spots? Shouldn't accessories be torqued down when connected? How do you sensibly add RCD discrimination when having to protect certain nuisance tripping when feeding out buildings etc on an older board where you can't easily stick in an RCBO for a split load board (I know there are time delay but is that really a sensible option? Where does it end?
Another fantastic video David... 👍👍👍 I particularly enjoyed the voice-over guy, whoever he was, probably a professional thespian, given he captured the very essence of the characters behind the those comments so well... I honestly though I was watching Points of View...🤣🤣🤣🤣 Keep up the great work, I'll take quality over quantity any day!!!
Anyway David. Just had a landlords done , arranged by the agent in my absence. All good , except I got a a C2 for a ring ( unsure if it was a spur or not) plastic surface box with a plastic socket for not having a fly earth on . Had a new box fitted and fly earth, has the box didn’t have a connection for the fly but the box was in good condition . It only cost a couple quid to do anyway. But can you explain why a fly earth is needed for a all plastic surface box socket , thanks. Keep up the good work , love your videos your so funny. With regards a landlord.
I have seen the standard of your work in many videos, and would happily employ your services when required. The world needs more no-nonsense people with a concept of quality and workmanship and an ounce of common sense! Carry on educating people and documenting your experiences.
One of the best videos I’ve seen of yours recently. 😂😂 And that’s a big compliment because I think they’re all decent! There are so many divvy ‘electricians’ out there it is bloody scary! Worst thing is.....these plonkers get paid an electrician’s wage for providing a first year apprentice service! The lack of real understanding is staggering!
Any Columns that are not on the report, we add an additional page titled “additional test results” and record the results there. These include, Trip times, IPFC,IPSC, ramp, accumulated earth leakage, location and confirmation of PEB. Great video.
A lot of it is comes from the manufacturers trying to make more money but I totally agree with you every installation should be tested on its merits when it was first planned using 18th as a guide for testing installation I like you as a electrician because you are down to earth and these people who sit in their armchairs who have read the 18th edition cover to cover sitting in the armchair is on the Internet not actually been out and bought a copy or electricians looking to make more money by insisting on testing it and setting it to the 18th edition and not eco-warriors they are electrical warriors yours Michelle and Just as a footnote I don’t have any paperwork but I’ve been an electrician since I was five I’m now 63 I’ve beenThrough all the additions in the rules and regulations and I classed myself as a competent electrician because my priority is my customer and customer safety yours Michelle
Thought you would be putting in dilithium crystals fed by plasma conduits. Top marks for informing the customer or landlord what is what, leaving them to decide. Spark's who say you must replace are ripping people off. I remember getting a gas check once, they guy doing it said guidelines state that there should be a concrete lintel installed above the gas fire/boiler. The place had just been decorated, as it was guidance we chose not to do it, when he came back the following year to do the gas check he told me that had been scrapped now. Look at the IEE regs and how many changes are made before a new edition comes out, its always been amended, guess the electricians would be mega busy each time there was a change.
I think this is an excellent video. So inspection is very much based on what is you are testing against. Arguments are spot on. One has to really understand electrical circuits and what it means to be safe.
I've started watching your videos over the last few weeks and months. I've found them to be very refreshing, as a sparks myself I find the vast majority of your findings and views very similar to my own. Keep up the good work and get some more videos up of that manor house. You can really tell which of the people commenting are either just out for money (and would rip some poor old lady out of her savings) or are not time served.
I'm about 14 weeks into my level 2 and I'm finding your videos so insightful. I can only hope I end up working for someone as knowledgeable, let me know if you need an apprentice 😂
When I trained and passed my 17th edition, my tutor said that the regulations are not retrospective. So you inspect to the latest standard but if the installation was fitted to an earlier standard then it does not mean a fail. For example some cars don’t have modern features but are still allowed on the road. Again if this was not the case then older cars would be banned from the highways or have to hibernate fitted with all the latest safety gadgets.
This is a great follow up to the previous piece and it is great to see that there is some sensible and measured debate going on in amongst all that crap about 18th edition or nothing! As a landlord, I have already had the 18th edition party line from my letting agent and I'm now fortunate enough to be able to have a reasonable argument with them about the specifics of my properties. To be fair, I think agents are struggling with the ambiguity of the government wording (who isn't?), but hopefully, the empirical data coming back from inspections will enable a pragmatic view to prevail. Inclined, as I am to get my tits out over yet another cost I have to bear, I'm a supporter of this in the spirit of holding "rogue landlords" to account and fundamentally assuring that people are not injured or killed. I want my tenants to enjoy their homes as well as to be safe and I remain surprised that for a number a number of years, I've had to have a Gas Cert but no electrical equivalent. From the discussions and feedback here, I'm encouraged that at least all of my properties have circuit breakers and RCDs. One of them was fully refurbished and rewired at 17th edition amendment 3 in 2017 and although I'll take due counsel here, I'm going to assume that the EICR I have will take me in 2022 before I need another inspection. The others have existing tenancies and will clearly need to be inspected by April 2021. Thanks to this great debate, I'm now prepared for any discussion I need to have with anyone telling me that the CUs need to be changed because they are plastic and thankfully, I can have that debate before the inspector turns up to "tell me something I already know". Unless the EICR shows any particular issues with the functional testing and the CUs are showing no signs of damage or potential to set on fire (and they are not under a staircase or in a sole escape route), then I expect no worse than a "strong recommendation" to change them, and I may well consider that anyhow. Thanks again for yet another informative and entertaining video. I really do learn many new things from these pieces - for example, I had no idea that badgers were attracted to Marmite! On the subject of Guru Smith, perhaps your farting, drinking what appears to be alcohol, and generally using the most foul and abusive language render him unable to see the care and attention to detail you put into your work? Luckily, most people appear to be able to "delve beneath the surface". You really ought to be doing stand-up mate. Love it!! :)
One of my mates just had a new CU fitted to replace a BS3036 jobbie. I asked him if he had an EICR done first. His response was "What's an EICR?" I said "That type of CU is ancient, the "sparky" really changed it without first seeing if an installation that old was safe?" He said "It was the same guy that did my roof".... Yep, you guessed it, no EICR and no certificate for the work undertaken! I told him if anything happens his insurers would take a dim view but didn't seem too bothered...
Pricing - Where is this stated/covered? As isn't pricing personal to the business/person and location in the UK? And also all properties / installations can differ greatly as depends on size, fuse-boxes, circuits and complexities including how tidy installations are etc. I set a minimum cost (labour) and excludes the report document as i charge it as materials + a 2nd charge if they require a new one once issues are rectified. I have charged between 185.00 - 220.00 in the past sometimes is the mimimum as i allow 185.00 for up to 6 circuits (not mcb's / fuses), then £12.00 per circuit there after (charging is a vague and unknown + personal area as surely as above, it's personal to the business and the property (i personally never know what to say when a client asks how much for a EICR)?? A fixed price could cost you a loss or loose you work and can give you a bad rep as people/customers are just people and always compare you against your personal manor or proffessional competense based your charge and also the same if provinding an estimate or quote or hourly rate with no documentation etc. I never know and still don't know the correct procedure but i believe referring and sourcing references from legislation is a tricky business and only ever gives the public a window to take advantage of something they nothing about and also derate out services and knowledge because they either don't understand the requirements and or do not appreciate our time verus cost. Mark Sesum's quote from a reference does not make sense!? I would say costing is personal and does not deem you or someone does a detailed or correct job. The inspector or installer deems the quality of the job or detail on inspection, not the legislation or guides or price. I except all feed back and opionions as i am open minded and always open to revising my practices etc (Nobody knows everything or does everything 100% from day 1) age and experience is also not a measure of quality or knowledge. I also believe the NIC EIC - who i am with are profitears and does not make someone a good electrician! Inc all the other providers. I am only with the NIC EIC as it's easier to work on & notify works under PART P. If city & guildes was enough i would quit the NIC EIC and still do my job better than most.
Indeed, I hate that people now mark the plastic consumer units as a code 2!! If all connections are tight its as safe as any metal unit. People don’t seem to get that as long as connections are tight and the breakers or fuses are correctly rated, there’s no reason to think that it will spontaneously combust. Good sensible video as always.
I watched the whole video and you make some good points , sadly people who have passed some electrical qualification 20 years ago think they know it all . It's a constant learning curve, we never stop . Your lack of points per circuit on your certificate isn't a bad thing as I have come across installations with more points than previously noted . On that subject I count light fittings ( pendants , battens , downlights etc ) but not switches, sockets as 1 point whether single or twin and appliance sockets (where a switch fuse or DP switch is fitted) as 1 point , I ignore the switch as not a current using part . Keep waffling and drinking , you are making sense to some of us .
Excellent coverage of this topic - thank you for being so informative and entertaining. I’ve had two enquiries from landlords asking about inspections and when I’ve told them how much it would cost, I then don’t hear anything more - their loss, not mine.
Best RUclips video of the year. Great mix of comedy and common sense interpretation of the Regs. I’ll happily cover John Smiths wages for a day if he’ll go on film and argue his case with you David, but we know that won’t happen!
You speak words of wisdom regarding this subject and many others. I believe rightly or wrongly that there should be some kind of rating system for sparkies, I'm not saying that people trained in the available relatively short courses are not properly trained up to a point but it should be also scored on how long they have been out on the coal face & maybe having the work they have undertaken verified in addition to their NICEIC assessments if applicable. I mean a person having the required short training can go straight out and start working on their own without having any of their work scrutinised by perhaps a seasoned sparky, I find myself favouring the apprentice route but you see this less and less nowadays. These are just my opinions and I am not saying that anyone who has been trained on these fairly short courses is not capable, to a certain extent, but experience is very important.
Great video as ever cheers boss. Our house was built in the 16th century as the bakehouse for the village. Indeed one of my old bedrooms was the old oven. The walls are 4ft thick, stone and about 5 foot underneath. How many times can we estimate it's been rewired since the 1920s !? 😂 I mean we've had extensions and stuff that is more modern but, even your sisters (?) Big property would be small fry to this hecking place. This is all useful information by the way because one of our tenants had just "moved out" so we're looking to redecorate and make things right so if you'd like to have a look at the place and a cup of tea let me know 😂 near Bicester.
Comedy and Informative Chat. Talking sense and proving a point. Shows you know what your talking about. Plenty of us I assume watch your videos and agree entirely. It takes guts to put it out their for the world to see. You have a way of making it entertaining to watch. Keep up the GREAT work.
While working as a sparkie in the mid to late eighties, during an NICEIC inspection, I had to install an RCD twin socket and label it FOR OUTDOOR USE. The NIC inspector explaned that the house was "protected as a zone by the main and supplementary bonding " Anything outside of the zone required RCD protection. There was nothing to stop using any socket for outdoor. Mind you we were bonding aluminium windows!
I think I've said this before, but the points you bring up and subsequent discussions - not immediate assertions you're correct - are uncommon qualities and this (plus your copious swearing) are the reasons I keep coming back to watch your videos. Had you been teaching the Electrical Installation module on my BTEC National Diploma back in the 1990s when I had more hair, I'd probably have looked forward to the three-hour session on a Friday more than I did at the time.
Analogy: A classic car pre-1965 built without seat belts, will not fail a 2020 MoT test, even though modern cars are required to have seat belts, as the standards of the day didn't require fitment of seat belts.
Love your vids David. It's great to hear confirmation of my thoughts on EICR coding. I once worked with a spark who would code lack of RCD as C1 and argue with anyone who challenged it and that was pre 17th.
5:55 - FFS; I'm only in my 1st year as a student and even I know you test and inspect to the MOT analogy - Is the installation electrically and mechanically safe and functional to the requirements of regulation set at the time of initial install?? If yes; then pass, with recommendations as necessary.
Cracking video David, had me chuckling from the start with your quick wit and in-depth descriptions 😂😂😂 keep them coming and keep up with the good work 👍🏼
Great video, With an EICR, you are offering professional advice, and charging for it. Sometimes mandating action needed. Take the plastic CU under the stairs for example. And you record it as a C2 Your report will have to say that property is Unsatisfactory. That then means the owner can’t rent it out. A house/flat can very easily rent for £1000’s per month. I recently worked in a rental house, which was £6,600 a month. If I tell that landlord his house is unsatisfactory, and remedial work needs to be undertaken, never mind the cost of the new board, what about the cost to the landlord in lost rent. It might take some time to change the board, all the time the landlord is loosing rent. Being diligent, on a board change, you may need an isolator fitted, that can easily take weeks to arrange, and in the current climate many suppliers are only carrying out essential works. So you could easily be waiting for a couple of months. That’s quite a lot of lost rental. On a piece of advice, that could be argued to be incorrect, and only your personal opinion. If the landlord subsequently finds out that you have given incorrect advice, they might decide to take legal action against you, to get back some of that lost rent. So Indemnity insurance may be a good thing to have. I think all you can do is report as you find, and use respected industry publications as your guidance and evidence. I often give additional comment in the email accompanying the legal EICR document. So I feel confident that I have expressed my opinions, (and have a paper trail) but I have not blurred the lines between a ‘legal’ fact, and personal opinion. The governing bodies in the industry seems quite good at leaving blurred lines though…
Problem seems to be in essence that the people at the top (government/civil servants) are passing the buck. We’re being told that safety is paramount, but they won’t be explicit about how that is defined (eg; must meet current regs, or must meet regs in force at time of original install or significant alteration). So the Sparky has to make the judgement. So we’re ending up with the same debacle that dogged PAT testing for years, and often still does: apply the most stringent regulations (test every appliance every year) to cover your a*se! Which has the dubious benefit of generating unnecessary (from the customers perspective) work. Lol - as with most things in life, the only winners are the lawyers, insurers and bankers....
I am not a Sparky but I love your Vids. Even I as layman I can see you are right. It seems like a failure to read and comprehend. It is human nature it appears not to want to put in the brainsweat
Fantastic follow-up video. Your explanations and reasoning for your comments on the original video are spot on again. I genuinely believe, half of the trolls do it on purpose to get the response/banter from you, a bit like a heckler at a comedy show. You are obviously a top spark, honest and fair with your clients and accept that other sparks will have differing opinions. The difference is, you have the balls to put it on a video for us all to see, and take criticisms etc when they inevitably arrive. Keep up the good work, don't let the fuckers grind you down. You are one of the most enjoyable on youtube. Funny and informative, a great combination
I totally agree with you. Wasnt that one of the reasons they changed he wording to an EICR rather than a periodic inspection as people where constantly failing things as they didnt comply to the current standards? Another brillient vid as always! Had me laughing from start to finish! 😂
Great video Dave please keep them rolling very formal and all way look forward to new releases from you ..... as I work in social housing this is great material, Love the comical side of it... 👍
Very good, obviously inspired by points of view 😂. In an ideal world yes it would be nice for installations to comply with current regs, but that's not possible for many reasons. Trouble is people either don't know or can't be arsed so they just fail it, and let's face it most electricians they call would say, yeah they need a new board with RCD protection. Imagine taking your prized vintage car for an MOT, to be told it failed because it didn't have seat belts, you would be a bit pissed off, as it wasn't a requirement when the thing was made, it's a similar situation with electrical installations.
Great video, always enjoy them, although my favourate still remains your trip to Birmingham back when it was a War Zone, many thanks, keep them coming..
My student accommodation had this great idea, where they built a wooden enclosure around plastic consumer units, and put a padlock on it, ensuring that RCDs remained untested, and the power couldn’t be switched off in an emergency.
@@steverobinson8170 Or in our case, a student receptionist who didn't know how to reset a circuit breaker. Fortunately the padlock hasp was only attached with screws, so the people who knew what they were doing could sort things out.
@@jayja45 Student lets are a nightmare though generally you have a group of 19 or 20 year olds who these days are clueless about basic maintainance because no ones ever taught them . The receptionist should not reset the breaker anyway because she wouldnt have had the knowledge or equipment to find out why a breaker had tripped , this is H&E issue and should be covered in the risk assessement . Many years ago we were working in a school and knocked off a board and some breakers , locked the electrical cupboard , teacher had a key opened it and turned the board back on and breaker , one of the lads took a massive belt , through him accross the room put him in hospital for 3 days . Teacher lost her job i believe
Hi Dave, cathed up late on this video due to busy times.. Im no expert..just trying to do my best work for clients Your videos are extremely helpful to me.. I appreciate that you braking down EICR'S im not big fan if doing it.. ( i think it just doesn't worth it) but still wants to be on the top of it Thnx Dave..
Love your videos, I’m on a Level 1 course, so years away from you, our tutors told us to watch your videos, and not regretted any of them, really great work ethics, and enjoy the banter between you and mini-you (Nigel), have learnt lots, please keep up the great work, your videos are very much appreciated, even the ones with Nigels bum cracks, he he...
I have 3 EICRs next week. All from customers terrified that there rental property doesn’t comply to 18th edition as told by the “sparks” that just carried out “EICRs” and all failed on plastic consumer units. No mention of anything else in two of the properties just they are not 18th. And the one of the customers has been quoted 2k to change up. I’m going to have fun with these reports next week.
I was listening to Radio Essex. A young lady came on to state that she was totally over worked because she had 8 tests a day to do. I must find her company so that I don’t use them.
The "points served" bit is interesting; I did an emergency lighting test (I do industrial maintenance) in a petfood factory a few years ago, loads of historical paperwork... according to the paperwork, there were 4 EML down their packing hall. I counted 7 when I tested them..... I think I was probably the only one that actually did test them. Had a few "interesting conversations" regarding fire alarms without MCBs also (covered in 433.3.3, many blindly quote 462).
Really interesting listen. My biggest question however is how you display your script to yourself? I don't see you moving anything on or clicking despite hammering through over 5000 words. Whatever you do works well 👍
A good idea to cover you on lighting circuits, you can use a fused spur RCD on the additional fitting ie o/s light, label it up fed via mcb lighting circuit and 3 amp fuse fitted!
Massive, best laugh I’ve had ages when give us a reply to those misguided commentators. The regs ain’t law, they are only guidelines that when applied keep the judges at bay.
Wise words Dave, your right.. There's more "so called" electricians who don't give a shite these days than those who do. I'm a 16th edition, to present day spark, always like to think I do an honest days work. Am competent at what I do, but everyday I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with cowboys. Keep up the good work, I always watch your videos for inspiration and keeping my knowledge fresh. Good work old chap 😎👍
Had a new install done 2 years ago. For some reason the landlord has been told that his cert has to be re done as of the new changes which is wrong. Not only did they fail the install he has discrepencies on the cert. That when I checked the blue book it confirmed that hes talking a lot of waffle. The question I'm trying to ask is does the new cert superceded the old 2 year old cert which still would have 3years to go on it. There seems to be a grey area and can't get a clear answer. Background info. Apparently missing a earth of lighting up and downstairs. ( Rare for a break both up a downstairs for a new install) And having 40amps breaker run 6mm to the cooker. Both raised as c2. These also apparently check 80% of the install. Personally if I had checked 80% I would already know where the break is and just connect it while I'm there. Thanks David keep up a good vids regards Matt According the the report it's ref method C.
Hi Mateusz. If it's ref method C, then 6mm can deliver 40A and it's not a C2 or C3 unless there are other factors. If he already has a cert that is less than five years old and covers the installation, be that an EIC or an EICR, then that cert remains valid. There's no need for re-inspection until that document expires unless a reason crops up such as flood, fire, improper meddling, major alterations, etc. This is backed up in the NAPIT guidance document linked in the description.
Mr Savery. Great video. I have no electrical background whatsoever, but even I completely understood the previous video. What is more concerning, were the huge quantities of errors and conflicts on that EICR. As a consumer, I need honesty and professionalism, not some false report of condemnation, from a money grabbing charlatan of an electrical professional.
Perfectly stated, again. Well done. I wish could rant like you, I should practice. Your excellent commented detail (for me) represent quality and functional ability which requires research, citation and evidence rather than on price and appearance which does not. Good job.
I had all of this shite from a sparky sent by the letting agent. MeM plastic consumer unit fitted some years ago. A (potential) bill for250? Fak orf. Also it’s not just the dodgy electricians that ‘make’ money from it, it’s the faceless corporations in bed with the legislation making plebs, that also make a few bob. 'Qualified AND Competent...' That should be 'Qualified OR Competent'. imagine the horror of a qualified spark that isn't competent. I'd much prefer someone who is competent whilst not neccessarily being 'qualified'...
Good on you mate the plumbing business is the same ,lots of crap work about and guys using DIY materials making it look easy .no mate mice won't chew plastic piping its what everyone's using and no need to actually bend or offset pipework I'll just use flexys its not like they will burst or anything and yes a combi is fine for a five bathroom house it'll give you plenty hot water they so much easier to fit and I will come back every five years to renew it.so much pride in your work
Yep just seen the crap my new neighbours have had done , copper pipe externally to new downstairs bog plastic joints no additional bonding although externally unprotected pipe 8 inches off the ground , and the new bogs next to the main incoming supply and consumer unit . You can touch the taps and the consumer unit whilst parked on the bog
Hi David . I am like you and like to do a good job . And when you see how the students treat the electrical installation in the properties. Then fitting rccd protection is highly recommended. Also I have seen some of the electrical repairs the landlord's have done or have got someone else to carry out . And in both cases not good .. I have been in this trade for a very long time and is coming to the end for me...😊 On another note what do you make of regulation 514.10 1 and also the on-site guide page 57 item 6.3 . Both give information on the same item but worded different. .. relates to 400 volts in equipment . More confusion. 😂
Yet another great upload with real world words. sadly I think its going to be harvest time for the cowboy sparks that will more than likey wreck a perfectly good and safe installation and install a unsafe new one. no doubt the video on that will be on in the future.
I’m not entirely sure that changing a light fitting in a domestic dwelling equates to altering the circuit, and therefore 18th edition wouldn’t apply. Apart from the possible difference in the amount of energy the 2 fittings pull.....the characteristics of the circuit haven’t changed. There will be a responsibility to confirm the switching arrangement and compatibility etc....confirm the earthing is ok and possibly a couple of other checks, but changing a light fitting is very different to extending a circuit in the eyes of the regs. (Just continued watching your video after pausing to write this comment, and realise you pretty much agree and already said what I did! 😂😂)
"People will like you better now there's no swearing!" Yea fuck that. You'd be the 1st sparky I'd call if you covered my area. I'd be paying someone for their skills to do a task, not because their internal censor gets a flexing every day.
Brilliant videos, with probably 99 percent of what Dave says being agreed with by most good sparks. However, I fail to understand why he did not take guidance from napit codebreakers regarding rcds for cables less than 50mm. Dave often talks about potential of dodgy diy persons carrying out electrical work or not so smart picture hangers banging nails in cable. These and others are what i think napit are trying to protect. Im sure napit think that most landlords can afford a couple of hundred pounds to protect these people or maybe a child squirting its bottle into a side light to name a few of infinite possibilities. Yes, people can be careless, and your chain of thought would condemn these people to tragic accidents. Obviously much of what is in 18th would not be required on an older install. But rcds are probably the most cost effective way to save lives and have probably saved thousands of them around the world. So how do you know you are not contributing to killing someone in the next 5 years if you sign off all jobs like this when you could just have easily sided with napits common sense approach instead of doing the bare minimum in the way of improvements. You have the camera so can easily ridicule the statement, but think you may one day see the light on this one.
Thanks for watching Daniel. Personally, I agree that RCD protection is a must-have; the point of discussion being however that failing an installation for not having such is to take a personal stance and isn't one that's backed up by what the guidance and regulatory requirements demand. That can lead to other sorts of problems. If a landlord, letting agency or client feels short changed because they have an unsatisfactory report based on my personal preference, then they may make a complaint where I don't have the backing of my CPS. Some EICRs are hostile; one may be undertaken on behalf of a buyer on a property where the seller is still resident. I've been in that position, and the seller was openly antagonistic. His assumption was that I was looking for ways to find fault to allow my client to drive the asking price down, so I had to ensure my report was on the level and by the book. I would much prefer it if the book stated clearly that RCD protection is required for retrofit on older installations. It doesn't. So, you take a stance or you go by the numbers, and the result is an inconsistent service received by the client between different inspectors. Also, NAPIT Codebreakers isn't as black-and-white as it appears. I contacted them about the C2 for cables buried in walls and was basically told that on an EICR you'll be putting LIM in that box unless you have X-ray vision to be able to see the cables in the walls and verify their depth. It's apparently only a C2 where you can see evidence that cables are buried at less than 50mm without RCD protection such as a visible out-of-zone wall chase, some obvious iffy filling, back to back plasterboard partitions etc. Even if I know that upgrading is directly beneficial to to my client's safety, I can't force them to do it. My job is to put them in an informed position and to make my recommendations by-the-book and as strongly as I can. They'll make their own mental risk assessment of whether the cost and effort are justified, and if they don't go ahead, it may well be a decision they come to regret. Nevertheless, it is ultimately their decision to make, not mine.
@@dsesuk Hi Dave, I think lively debates a good thing, but a lot of people are listening to you and you could make a real difference on saving lives here. Its something that napit have clearly given c2 for great reasons. You took the socket off, you said it had a rubber grommet. Therefore you would have known if the cables were less than 2 inches, and let's face it 90 percent of domestic cables won't have metal conduit and will be less than 50mm.
Ps guidance note 3 allows you to use your professional judgement, and I've never had a come back from nic on this one! P. S im qs with same qualifications as you, in the game 38 years (-:
Yes, and if those cables we're assuming are buried at under 50mm are also assumed to be in prescribed zones, then that supposedly forms a level of protection. Even if NAPIT did have a hard-on for a C2, NICEIC, ECA and Electrical Safety First don't. As for my influence on others, as I said in the video, if you want to have your own position on RCDs, that's fine so long as you're upfront about it. But that and any other thing an inspector doesn't like about older installations, now or in the future, be it plastic switchgear enclosures, the absence of SPDs or AFDDs or whatever aren't supposed to be things we get to pick or choose whether we pass or fail. That's the meat of the discussion - different people drawing a line in the sand in different places without the clients knowing of these preconceptions when they book someone in. It would be wrong if I appeared on RUclips telling everyone to C2 anything without an RCD and to please think of the children, even if I think it's right.
@@dsesuk i guess we will agree to disagree. Fir me its going to be, if a back box is sunk in at normal depth then i know cables are less then 2 inches, and i will go with napit tech team and help save some lives. Not cos I wear a halo, but because its legitamately within my means and I find it foolish to do otherwise.
Are you for real . Give up being electrician , you should be on a stage .
Absolutely the funniest , naturally gifted comedian on you tube !!!
must be a kitchen fitter, no mention of connecting the CPC. made me laugh out loud, brilliant!
This is exactly what needs to be said and indeed shouted at every electrician, landlord, person who orders the work, client, president, dog walker or racing pigeon owner. Basically anyone! The industry and the general public need a clear path through the minefield of EICRs, legislation, statutory and non statutory and what can sometimes look like only a specialist few are allowed in the club of understanding! 99.9% of the community will thank and reward you for your support and guidance towards the dark arts of Inspection and testing. Personally I'm just glad the message is out there and I appreciate the time, effort and alcohol that has gone into your videos.
Thanks James, a lot of booze went into this one, especially when my video editor cocked up and the second half corrupted!
Kudos to both of you I am happy they are thinkers in this trade in the UK, sensible and articulate and are able to see through the regulatory dynamics. David one area and its one you have groaned about (rightly so) the poor quality of light fittings - you are fitting many devices which are poorly designed and often really don’t even meet the standards they are labeled to meet (eg double insulated) what little things are you doing to make it safer - care around terminations and connections, testing including earthing assessment, correct RCD tripping on such circuits if they exist. That would be a good one to do and it would give you an opportunity to vent but I think it’s a really important one as manufacturing standards for such devices are so poor, often more thought is given to the external design (while important for aesthetics) but equally there should be as thought given to the internal wiring and safety of the luminaire. If electricians are highlighting these issues I believe manufacturers will take more care in production testing methods with more realistic testing approaches that match actual installation settings. Here in the USA regulation is much more voluntary - some thing called the 4th amendment kicks in you can’t completely mandate for it for a householder to carry it out. I see so many poorly manufactured wired lighting devices it’s a scandal and lack of insulated surface transitions and lack of fire rating is a a real worry. Top man and good guy and someone sorely needed in the industry who actually thinks.
@@mathman0101 Thanks Math Man for your contribution to this vid! The headache with lighting is that the pretty pendants tend to be made to accept either a single two-core flex or a single three-core earthed cable. In many instances, conductive metal fittings are parading as Class II because they come with a tiny connector block that will only meet the requirement for Class II *if* a single two-core flex terminates to it, but absolutely nobody has two-core flex popping out of their ceiling! There are steps diligent installers will take to work around the design flaws of the manufacturers and that may be external junctioning in a suitable enclosure (Wagobox, Quickwire In-Sure box etc.), oversleeving or heat-shrinking single-insulated wires and encapsulating connections to try and maintain double-insulation or fixing an earth wire to the luminaire to make it Class I. Sadly, many installers or DIY'ers haven't a clue though. They'll bin the little connector block and will fit a larger one with single insulation everywhere and exposed screw connections hovering around the metalwork; and at best they'll wrap it in a bit of electrical tape.
Of course my admiration also goes for you as well JBE there a bunch of you guys who are really elevating your industry and professionalism around it.
@@dsesuk That's the problem with the cheap as chips fittings being imported from China, they have passed all the electrical safety tests in some far off EU state with a far less vigourous testing regime than the UK they automatically get accreditation in the UK , its absolutely bonkers.
Amazing Dave, Never stop being you. The legislation is flawed and whilst an EICR is done using the current regs it doesn’t mean you have to code it all. I make SPDs an observation that’s someone may want in future not immediately or fail. If the CUs not metal. I check connections upon finish and advise observation for future. We need to use more engineering judgement not blanket code code code...
ben bill Checking tightness of ALL connections in CU is a mandatory check, see schedule of inspections 4.21 and good practice at all internally inspected accessories (5.17)
@ben bill tightness needs checking in any CU. Loose terminals are disastrous no matter what the construction.
I'd pay you to do a full EICR purely for the banter in it. There is no comedian on telly at the moment as genuinely funny as you. The wit of wodehouse mixed with the vocab of a sailor with tourette's. Brilliant.
Legend. This guy should've become a Barrister...He is also very honest in his job role.. Integrity is everything.. Welldone lad..
Nice to listen to someone who knows what they’re talking about. I’ll finish watching tomorrow but great upload yet again 👍🏻
An EICR is like an MOT for the electrical installation (That's what I tell a lot of my customers). You can get an old motor not fitted with seatbelts or airbag, but it can still pass an MOT!
Good analogy.
Yep, car built before seatbelts were mandatory doesn't need them
A bit like an old motorbike with no indicators = pass. A new motorbike with broken indicators = fail.
The MOT at least gives you specific dates for testable items. Such as daytime running lamps only needing tested on any modern car manufactured after on or after 1 March 2018. They should take advice from the MOT system and just say any domestic property built after X date needs RCD's etc. and not just hidden away on page 4892 in some book the fly by night electricians don't even read. David says "I'm not saying you have to know the older standards" this is kind of the problem. An MOT tester HAS to know when the car was built to carry out the correct tests. An electrician should know about these older standards and carry out only the tests that apply to those in which amendment period he discovers it to be. With any advisories to upgrade to a newer standard.
How easy is it to determine when a property was built and what amendment it was designed around is another question.. I'm not sure if its possible to know for sure unlike cars also unlike cars there is no central database or standard of recording EICR's (different organisations giving contradictory failure codes) the MOT test is a lot more consistent as it forces a tester to pick from a database of failure items. He can't just write any old shit in and fail it like you can with an EICR. Also the public can look up the last 15? years of an MOT tests on any registered car online. You can't do that with EICR's. I think you have to request it from the electrician/landlord and who knows what you'll get back - if its even complete.... Lots of ways the EICR could be improved by looking at how the MOT system works.
@@averagemodernmale I disagree, many of the MOT regulations have tester discretion , take brake wear , if little old biddy does 500 miles a year , the vehicle itself is low milage then they wouldnt issue advisories for brakes 75% worn , if however she's doing 16000 miles a year they would issue an advisory A large oil leak is an mot failure a small oil leak isnt defining whats a pass whats advisory whats a fail is again tester descretion . My car failed because of the position of a number plate fixing , the plates were OEM , never changed yet the MOT station that had passed it previously failed it
I often see people on social media asking for a "good cheap electrician" i usually reply you can have one or the other not both.
Hi Dave, another great video again thanks. There is a nice paragraph on page 476 of BS7671, under guidance for the inspector, “Older installations designed prior to BS7671:2018 may not have been provided with RCDs for additional protection. The absence of such protection should as a minimum be given a code C3 classification (item 5.12)” so your interpretation of the regs is spot on. Keep up the good work
Now y'see, this is the reason why I like to paw through the comments on these vids as all sorts of interesting snippets pop up just like that! A good find, and I quite forgot the regs contained guidance notes for inspectors!
I am always amazed at how eloquently you explain things, either with or without the swearing.
What you seem to have in abundance is the worlds most under used natural resource, Common Sense !
With all due respect to Mr.PinkWilly at 5:00 in I have been living next door to an elderly gentleman who had lived in his home since it was built in the 1930's. I have seen inside his house and ALL electrical fittings and fixtures were original. I am talking about a domino fuse box, twisted wire pairs on light fittings and wall switches. The switches being bakelite on a wood backing. The sockets round 3 pin bakelite types and no RCDs to be found anywhere. Not one incident has occurred in the 22 years I have lived here. Point being, sometimes things can work perfectly fine for years though I am fully aware of the old rubber coated wires that could perish over time and cause fires by shorting out. His wires had what looked like that stuff you get on Electric Iron cords. The house is up for auction now so good luck to the buyer getting that up to specs ha ha ha. Loved it when you told PW to STFU LOL :D Sending virtual non g manly hugs :D
Totally agree with you, keep the swearing please, that is one of the things I love and enjoy besides the top shelf quality work and professionalism
Thanks dave another great knowledgeable video with a sense of humor.
Never afraid to say how it is. 😄
Pretty good video. I work for a large building services contractor and do commercial / industrial projects. I personally don’t do EICR’s for domestic properties, but I always get the question from friends and family: do I need to change my board, do I need to get my whole house re-wired, do I need to get RCDs fitted to everything, is my board going to catch fire? I always reply: without looking at your installation, it’s hard to say, BUT, my answer is NO. Your installation is most likely fine as it is. Old doesn’t mean all of a sudden dangerous and condemned. I ask them to send me some photos of their board and intake and a few photos of the property. You can gauge pretty quickly if it’s really shoddy or old work or if it looks in reasonably good shape. Like you say, if the regs changed every 5 years, does that mean every property needs to be re-wired every 5 years? The electricians would be the richest people in the country.
Absolute Legend! One of the sparks on here who always keep it very real. Great content as always bud! keep up the great work. Top Guy!
You missed your vocation,should be on the stage,finest comedian I've seen in years!
Edinburgh Fringe 2021 always looking for good comedians...
David I have ‘invested’ far much time watching and being entertained by your videos and I feel I have learned a lot, I am not a domestic electrician but a time served marine engineer (now retired) so very well used to angry pixies and stuff that lets the smoke out.
I think you are absolutely right about working to standards and not ‘personal preferences’ and being upfront with customers, in terms of doing any electrical work but particularly inspecting during EICRs.
For reasons that are not exactly clear to me I have been thinking about the dilemma you have exposed especially with respect to the difference for homeowners and landlords. I have come to the conclusion that the fundamental problem is that not at all landlords are equal and there needs to be a re- definition of what a landlord actually is because there are two distinct types: Homeowners who are renting out their previous home for a limited time and Landlords who are renting more than one property as a business. So the former would need a ‘domestic EICR’ and the latter a ‘commercial EICR’ and the regulations could then more easily (and specifically) discriminate to the standards pertaining to each. Importantly there does also need to be an element of time to phase in improvements to more closely match industry capacity. Homeowners would clearly need to register with some sort of ‘shiny pant authority’ if they intended to rent out their property.
I don’t profess to have ‘the’ answer just thinking out loud.
Dr Savery, as a stickler for the details I wish to raise one point regarding your 1st floor flat EICR. According to Part B, provided:
Windows should have an unobstructed openable area of 0.33m2, a minimum height and width of 450mm and is a maximum of 1100mm above the internal floor to the windowsill
These windows (ground and 1st floor up to 4.5m from ground level) actually form an escape route, thus the stairway is probably not the sole means of escape, although the end result in your EICR regarding plastic CU happens to be the same in this instance.
Most intriguing old boy. Although those with limited mobility may argue the toss about their ability to dive out of a first floor window. Still, if the bugger's on fire, I for one would be leaping headlong into the rose bushes below.
@@dsesuk Just seen this, can't think why it's taken me so long. All I've got to say is that if I dived out of our first floor window I'd land on some bloody hard paving slabs, no rose bushes around here 🥴
My first viewing of one of your videos Dave and I found it most entertaining and informative, as an ex-gasman and aspiring electrician, (controls only), I fully appreciated your interpretation of the new electric regs, which are at last beginning to catch up with the Gas safety regs. The video reminded me of the many discussions that we had in BG, this is before 1995, where I had 60 engineers who often viewed the regs in a slightly differing way, the challenge for me was to get some consistency and BG spent a shedload of money on training and guidance manuals for the whole variety of installations that our guys faced.
I am not a qualified sparky. I have no need to bebut it all makes sense what you say. I can't quote the regs word by word as it is not my day job. That flat is not unsafe. It can be improved. As you say RCD's should perhaps be recommended as a retro fit - indeed the code breakers book does cover this as C3. So long as the existing installation tests out to suitably take them and not introduce nuisance tripping. Older building with damp problems, slightly dodgy appliances with a small leakage. Not to mention borrowed neutrals on upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits which can cause havoc before RCD's were mainstream. RCD's don't pick up every fault condition but they are a pretty good start. Should we recommend all RCD's are now swapped to A type? If you look at which RCD you should have you should put in lots of different types according to the IET for all sorts of things which would mean running separate circuits - electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/77-september-2019/which-rcd-type/ Plastic consumer units are not a problem. Many were badly fitted and even now they still will be. Yes, there is a potential as the over current device will be much higher rated before it could cut but poor connections in face plates can still cause issues. How many ring final faults are caused by the fact that by their design you have to break the ring to test it for continuity? Don't put the connections back properly which is the bit you can't properly test and you introduce the over current risk. Certain things from old regs are dangerous like rubber cabling and should be pulled up. Should an older standard have to be re-wired because the lighting circuits are split up and down, rather than front rear, which is something to consider at the time of design to allow for lighting in the event of a fault and a protective device tripping? The list goes on. Another debate are smoke alarms. They should in my opinion always go on to a well used lighting circuit to prevent them being unpowered for long periods of time and their battery backup being removed. www.tester.co.uk/blog/electrical/keeping-abreast-of-the-wiring-regulations-3rd-amendment/ is interesting. What caused the spike of fires? It was apparently the loose connection of terminals inside. Sure, metal units in theory will contain the fire but doesn't prevent the issue of them starting. And torquing down of the terminals in a CU? What about a 20 or 32 amp final running at load with poor connections on the accessory plates causing hot spots? Shouldn't accessories be torqued down when connected? How do you sensibly add RCD discrimination when having to protect certain nuisance tripping when feeding out buildings etc on an older board where you can't easily stick in an RCBO for a split load board (I know there are time delay but is that really a sensible option? Where does it end?
Another fantastic video David... 👍👍👍
I particularly enjoyed the voice-over guy, whoever he was, probably a professional thespian, given he captured the very essence of the characters behind the those comments so well... I honestly though I was watching Points of View...🤣🤣🤣🤣
Keep up the great work, I'll take quality over quantity any day!!!
It's lucky I had to only do three voices as that's my full repertoire right there!
@@dsesuk 🤣🤣🤣
Anyway David. Just had a landlords done , arranged by the agent in my absence. All good , except I got a a C2 for a ring ( unsure if it was a spur or not) plastic surface box with a plastic socket for not having a fly earth on . Had a new box fitted and fly earth, has the box didn’t have a connection for the fly but the box was in good condition . It only cost a couple quid to do anyway. But can you explain why a fly earth is needed for a all plastic surface box socket , thanks. Keep up the good work , love your videos your so funny. With regards a landlord.
I have seen the standard of your work in many videos, and would happily employ your services when required. The world needs more no-nonsense people with a concept of quality and workmanship and an ounce of common sense! Carry on educating people and documenting your experiences.
One of the best videos I’ve seen of yours recently. 😂😂 And that’s a big compliment because I think they’re all decent!
There are so many divvy ‘electricians’ out there it is bloody scary! Worst thing is.....these plonkers get paid an electrician’s wage for providing a first year apprentice service! The lack of real understanding is staggering!
I love how the video has 1 downvote... must be JohnSmith! The old scopes and signal generators to your left belong in a museum.
Any Columns that are not on the report, we add an additional page titled “additional test results” and record the results there. These include, Trip times, IPFC,IPSC, ramp, accumulated earth leakage, location and confirmation of PEB. Great video.
A lot of it is comes from the manufacturers trying to make more money but I totally agree with you every installation should be tested on its merits when it was first planned using 18th as a guide for testing installation I like you as a electrician because you are down to earth and these people who sit in their armchairs who have read the 18th edition cover to cover sitting in the armchair is on the Internet not actually been out and bought a copy or electricians looking to make more money by insisting on testing it and setting it to the 18th edition and not eco-warriors they are electrical warriors yours Michelle and Just as a footnote I don’t have any paperwork but I’ve been an electrician since I was five I’m now 63 I’ve beenThrough all the additions in the rules and regulations and I classed myself as a competent electrician because my priority is my customer and customer safety yours Michelle
The argument is the same as saying all cars without autonomous braking should fail the next mot and be taken off the road.
Thought you would be putting in dilithium crystals fed by plasma conduits. Top marks for informing the customer or landlord what is what, leaving them to decide. Spark's who say you must replace are ripping people off. I remember getting a gas check once, they guy doing it said guidelines state that there should be a concrete lintel installed above the gas fire/boiler. The place had just been decorated, as it was guidance we chose not to do it, when he came back the following year to do the gas check he told me that had been scrapped now. Look at the IEE regs and how many changes are made before a new edition comes out, its always been amended, guess the electricians would be mega busy each time there was a change.
I think this is an excellent video. So inspection is very much based on what is you are testing against. Arguments are spot on. One has to really understand electrical circuits and what it means to be safe.
I am lost for words! You said all that most of us already think! Great work again Mr DSE!!!
Well said 👍and I'm not related to John 😂
I've started watching your videos over the last few weeks and months. I've found them to be very refreshing, as a sparks myself I find the vast majority of your findings and views very similar to my own. Keep up the good work and get some more videos up of that manor house. You can really tell which of the people commenting are either just out for money (and would rip some poor old lady out of her savings) or are not time served.
I'm about 14 weeks into my level 2 and I'm finding your videos so insightful. I can only hope I end up working for someone as knowledgeable, let me know if you need an apprentice 😂
When I trained and passed my 17th edition, my tutor said that the regulations are not retrospective. So you inspect to the latest standard but if the installation was fitted to an earlier standard then it does not mean a fail. For example some cars don’t have modern features but are still allowed on the road. Again if this was not the case then older cars would be banned from the highways or have to hibernate fitted with all the latest safety gadgets.
This is a great follow up to the previous piece and it is great to see that there is some sensible and measured debate going on in amongst all that crap about 18th edition or nothing! As a landlord, I have already had the 18th edition party line from my letting agent and I'm now fortunate enough to be able to have a reasonable argument with them about the specifics of my properties. To be fair, I think agents are struggling with the ambiguity of the government wording (who isn't?), but hopefully, the empirical data coming back from inspections will enable a pragmatic view to prevail.
Inclined, as I am to get my tits out over yet another cost I have to bear, I'm a supporter of this in the spirit of holding "rogue landlords" to account and fundamentally assuring that people are not injured or killed. I want my tenants to enjoy their homes as well as to be safe and I remain surprised that for a number a number of years, I've had to have a Gas Cert but no electrical equivalent.
From the discussions and feedback here, I'm encouraged that at least all of my properties have circuit breakers and RCDs. One of them was fully refurbished and rewired at 17th edition amendment 3 in 2017 and although I'll take due counsel here, I'm going to assume that the EICR I have will take me in 2022 before I need another inspection. The others have existing tenancies and will clearly need to be inspected by April 2021. Thanks to this great debate, I'm now prepared for any discussion I need to have with anyone telling me that the CUs need to be changed because they are plastic and thankfully, I can have that debate before the inspector turns up to "tell me something I already know". Unless the EICR shows any particular issues with the functional testing and the CUs are showing no signs of damage or potential to set on fire (and they are not under a staircase or in a sole escape route), then I expect no worse than a "strong recommendation" to change them, and I may well consider that anyhow.
Thanks again for yet another informative and entertaining video. I really do learn many new things from these pieces - for example, I had no idea that badgers were attracted to Marmite! On the subject of Guru Smith, perhaps your farting, drinking what appears to be alcohol, and generally using the most foul and abusive language render him unable to see the care and attention to detail you put into your work? Luckily, most people appear to be able to "delve beneath the surface". You really ought to be doing stand-up mate. Love it!! :)
As a landlord , this guy is realist and knows his stuff.
One of my mates just had a new CU fitted to replace a BS3036 jobbie. I asked him if he had an EICR done first. His response was "What's an EICR?" I said "That type of CU is ancient, the "sparky" really changed it without first seeing if an installation that old was safe?" He said "It was the same guy that did my roof".... Yep, you guessed it, no EICR and no certificate for the work undertaken! I told him if anything happens his insurers would take a dim view but didn't seem too bothered...
Pricing - Where is this stated/covered? As isn't pricing personal to the business/person and location in the UK? And also all properties / installations can differ greatly as depends on size, fuse-boxes, circuits and complexities including how tidy installations are etc. I set a minimum cost (labour) and excludes the report document as i charge it as materials + a 2nd charge if they require a new one once issues are rectified. I have charged between 185.00 - 220.00 in the past sometimes is the mimimum as i allow 185.00 for up to 6 circuits (not mcb's / fuses), then £12.00 per circuit there after
(charging is a vague and unknown + personal area as surely as above, it's personal to the business and the property (i personally never know what to say when a client asks how much for a EICR)??
A fixed price could cost you a loss or loose you work and can give you a bad rep as people/customers are just people and always compare you against your personal manor or proffessional competense based your charge and also the same if provinding an estimate or quote or hourly rate with no documentation etc. I never know and still don't know the correct procedure but i believe referring and sourcing references from legislation is a tricky business and only ever gives the public a window to take advantage of something they nothing about and also derate out services and knowledge because they either don't understand the requirements and or do not appreciate our time verus cost. Mark Sesum's quote from a reference does not make sense!? I would say costing is personal and does not deem you or someone does a detailed or correct job. The inspector or installer deems the quality of the job or detail on inspection, not the legislation or guides or price. I except all feed back and opionions as i am open minded and always open to revising my practices etc (Nobody knows everything or does everything 100% from day 1) age and experience is also not a measure of quality or knowledge. I also believe the NIC EIC - who i am with are profitears and does not make someone a good electrician! Inc all the other providers. I am only with the NIC EIC as it's easier to work on & notify works under PART P. If city & guildes was enough i would quit the NIC EIC and still do my job better than most.
Indeed, I hate that people now mark the plastic consumer units as a code 2!! If all connections are tight its as safe as any metal unit. People don’t seem to get that as long as connections are tight and the breakers or fuses are correctly rated, there’s no reason to think that it will spontaneously combust.
Good sensible video as always.
I watched the whole video and you make some good points , sadly people who have passed some electrical qualification 20 years ago think they know it all . It's a constant learning curve, we never stop . Your lack of points per circuit on your certificate isn't a bad thing as I have come across installations with more points than previously noted . On that subject I count light fittings ( pendants , battens , downlights etc ) but not switches, sockets as 1 point whether single or twin and appliance sockets (where a switch fuse or DP switch is fitted) as 1 point , I ignore the switch as not a current using part . Keep waffling and drinking , you are making sense to some of us .
Excellent coverage of this topic - thank you for being so informative and entertaining. I’ve had two enquiries from landlords asking about inspections and when I’ve told them how much it would cost, I then don’t hear anything more - their loss, not mine.
Thanks Richard, and you're right: EICR's need to be done properly or not at all. Leave those not prepared to pay for the sharks.
Best RUclips video of the year. Great mix of comedy and common sense interpretation of the Regs.
I’ll happily cover John Smiths wages for a day if he’ll go on film and argue his case with you David, but we know that won’t happen!
You speak words of wisdom regarding this subject and many others. I believe rightly or wrongly that there should be some kind of rating system for sparkies, I'm not saying that people trained in the available relatively short courses are not properly trained up to a point but it should be also scored on how long they have been out on the coal face & maybe having the work they have undertaken verified in addition to their NICEIC assessments if applicable.
I mean a person having the required short training can go straight out and start working on their own without having any of their work scrutinised by perhaps a seasoned sparky, I find myself favouring the apprentice route but you see this less and less nowadays.
These are just my opinions and I am not saying that anyone who has been trained on these fairly short courses is not capable, to a certain extent, but experience is very important.
Great video as ever cheers boss. Our house was built in the 16th century as the bakehouse for the village. Indeed one of my old bedrooms was the old oven. The walls are 4ft thick, stone and about 5 foot underneath. How many times can we estimate it's been rewired since the 1920s !? 😂 I mean we've had extensions and stuff that is more modern but, even your sisters (?) Big property would be small fry to this hecking place. This is all useful information by the way because one of our tenants had just "moved out" so we're looking to redecorate and make things right so if you'd like to have a look at the place and a cup of tea let me know 😂 near Bicester.
I don’t think he’s a tea drinker 😂
Comedy and Informative Chat. Talking sense and proving a point. Shows you know what your talking about. Plenty of us I assume watch your videos and agree entirely. It takes guts to put it out their for the world to see. You have a way of making it entertaining to watch. Keep up the GREAT work.
While working as a sparkie in the mid to late eighties, during an NICEIC inspection, I had to install an RCD twin socket and label it FOR OUTDOOR USE. The NIC inspector explaned that the house was "protected as a zone by the main and supplementary bonding " Anything outside of the zone required RCD protection. There was nothing to stop using any socket for outdoor. Mind you we were bonding aluminium windows!
I remember them days , bonding anything and everything
You do make laugh David, keep it up. I Appreciate the fact that you come up with as well, as it helps me in my learning
I think I've said this before, but the points you bring up and subsequent discussions - not immediate assertions you're correct - are uncommon qualities and this (plus your copious swearing) are the reasons I keep coming back to watch your videos. Had you been teaching the Electrical Installation module on my BTEC National Diploma back in the 1990s when I had more hair, I'd probably have looked forward to the three-hour session on a Friday more than I did at the time.
Bang on with everything you said in this video. 👍🏻👍🏻 As for Mr John Smith.....that’s why the industry is in the state it is!! 🔔🔚
Analogy: A classic car pre-1965 built without seat belts, will not fail a 2020 MoT test, even though modern cars are required to have seat belts, as the standards of the day didn't require fitment of seat belts.
Absolutely brilliant video Dave.Had me roaring all the way through.On the serious side you came up with some very valid points.Keep up the good work.
This is the funniest stand up comedy performance I've watched since Gervais at the globes. Do you do bookings?
Only with Nige as his straight man.
Dave and Nige, live at the Apollo? :-). Next time I'm thinking of getting divorced I say to my wife, 'I've got to tickets for a show love'
Love your vids David. It's great to hear confirmation of my thoughts on EICR coding. I once worked with a spark who would code lack of RCD as C1 and argue with anyone who challenged it and that was pre 17th.
I'm 7 minutes in and I'm crying 😂😂😂😂
I saw your defence of my reputation on SGTV, and I thank you for that, so just wait until I get to that prick at the end!
6 mins in is too funny
Nearly died at 4.56 😂that voice was class
5:55 - FFS; I'm only in my 1st year as a student and even I know you test and inspect to the MOT analogy - Is the installation electrically and mechanically safe and functional to the requirements of regulation set at the time of initial install?? If yes; then pass, with recommendations as necessary.
Cracking video David, had me chuckling from the start with your quick wit and in-depth descriptions 😂😂😂 keep them coming and keep up with the good work 👍🏼
Great video,
With an EICR, you are offering professional advice, and charging for it.
Sometimes mandating action needed.
Take the plastic CU under the stairs for example. And you record it as a C2
Your report will have to say that property is Unsatisfactory.
That then means the owner can’t rent it out.
A house/flat can very easily rent for £1000’s per month.
I recently worked in a rental house, which was £6,600 a month.
If I tell that landlord his house is unsatisfactory, and remedial work needs to be undertaken, never mind the cost of the new board, what about the cost to the landlord in lost rent.
It might take some time to change the board, all the time the landlord is loosing rent.
Being diligent, on a board change, you may need an isolator fitted, that can easily take weeks to arrange, and in the current climate many suppliers are only carrying out essential works.
So you could easily be waiting for a couple of months.
That’s quite a lot of lost rental. On a piece of advice, that could be argued to be incorrect, and only your personal opinion.
If the landlord subsequently finds out that you have given incorrect advice, they might decide to take legal action against you, to get back some of that lost rent. So Indemnity insurance may be a good thing to have.
I think all you can do is report as you find, and use respected industry publications as your guidance and evidence.
I often give additional comment in the email accompanying the legal EICR document.
So I feel confident that I have expressed my opinions, (and have a paper trail) but I have not blurred the lines between a ‘legal’ fact, and personal opinion.
The governing bodies in the industry seems quite good at leaving blurred lines though…
Problem seems to be in essence that the people at the top (government/civil servants) are passing the buck. We’re being told that safety is paramount, but they won’t be explicit about how that is defined (eg; must meet current regs, or must meet regs in force at time of original install or significant alteration). So the Sparky has to make the judgement. So we’re ending up with the same debacle that dogged PAT testing for years, and often still does: apply the most stringent regulations (test every appliance every year) to cover your a*se! Which has the dubious benefit of generating unnecessary (from the customers perspective) work. Lol - as with most things in life, the only winners are the lawyers, insurers and bankers....
as a none sparky i find all these rules fascinating. keep the good videos coming thanks
I am not a Sparky but I love your Vids. Even I as layman I can see you are right. It seems like a failure to read and comprehend. It is human nature it appears not to want to put in the brainsweat
Fantastic follow-up video. Your explanations and reasoning for your comments on the original video are spot on again. I genuinely believe, half of the trolls do it on purpose to get the response/banter from you, a bit like a heckler at a comedy show. You are obviously a top spark, honest and fair with your clients and accept that other sparks will have differing opinions. The difference is, you have the balls to put it on a video for us all to see, and take criticisms etc when they inevitably arrive. Keep up the good work, don't let the fuckers grind you down. You are one of the most enjoyable on youtube. Funny and informative, a great combination
Wish you lived closer to Northampton. Straight to the point and know your stuff I bet most guys don't look at the books after they pass.
I totally agree with you. Wasnt that one of the reasons they changed he wording to an EICR rather than a periodic inspection as people where constantly failing things as they didnt comply to the current standards?
Another brillient vid as always! Had me laughing from start to finish! 😂
Great video Dave please keep them rolling very formal and all way look forward to new releases from you ..... as I work in social housing this is great material, Love the comical side of it... 👍
Very good, obviously inspired by points of view 😂.
In an ideal world yes it would be nice for installations to comply with current regs, but that's not possible for many reasons.
Trouble is people either don't know or can't be arsed so they just fail it, and let's face it most electricians they call would say, yeah they need a new board with RCD protection.
Imagine taking your prized vintage car for an MOT, to be told it failed because it didn't have seat belts, you would be a bit pissed off, as it wasn't a requirement when the thing was made, it's a similar situation with electrical installations.
It wouldn't be so bad seeing older installations getting upgraded if they weren't so often done so poorly.
Great video, always enjoy them, although my favourate still remains your trip to Birmingham back when it was a War Zone, many thanks, keep them coming..
Hahahahahaha, hilarious. Keep it coming.. as a customer I appreciate your reviews of the electrical works, I wouldn't have a clue about it.
My student accommodation had this great idea, where they built a wooden enclosure around plastic consumer units, and put a padlock on it, ensuring that RCDs remained untested, and the power couldn’t be switched off in an emergency.
Knowing what students are like that was probably the most sensible thing to do, breaker or rcd trips they send a sparks around
@@steverobinson8170 Or in our case, a student receptionist who didn't know how to reset a circuit breaker. Fortunately the padlock hasp was only attached with screws, so the people who knew what they were doing could sort things out.
@@jayja45 Student lets are a nightmare though generally you have a group of 19 or 20 year olds who these days are clueless about basic maintainance because no ones ever taught them . The receptionist should not reset the breaker anyway because she wouldnt have had the knowledge or equipment to find out why a breaker had tripped , this is H&E issue and should be covered in the risk assessement . Many years ago we were working in a school and knocked off a board and some breakers , locked the electrical cupboard , teacher had a key opened it and turned the board back on and breaker , one of the lads took a massive belt , through him accross the room put him in hospital for 3 days . Teacher lost her job i believe
Hi Dave, cathed up late on this video due to busy times..
Im no expert..just trying to do my best work for clients
Your videos are extremely helpful to me..
I appreciate that you braking down EICR'S im not big fan if doing it.. ( i think it just doesn't worth it) but still wants to be on the top of it
Thnx Dave..
Love your videos, I’m on a Level 1 course, so years away from you, our tutors told us to watch your videos, and not regretted any of them, really great work ethics, and enjoy the banter between you and mini-you (Nigel), have learnt lots, please keep up the great work, your videos are very much appreciated, even the ones with Nigels bum cracks, he he...
Thanks for the feedback! I hope the course goes well for you. A rewarding future crawling around hot attics and dank basements awaits!
I have 3 EICRs next week. All from customers terrified that there rental property doesn’t comply to 18th edition as told by the “sparks” that just carried out “EICRs” and all failed on plastic consumer units. No mention of anything else in two of the properties just they are not 18th. And the one of the customers has been quoted 2k to change up. I’m going to have fun with these reports next week.
I was listening to Radio Essex. A young lady came on to state that she was totally over worked because she had 8 tests a day to do. I must find her company so that I don’t use them.
The "points served" bit is interesting; I did an emergency lighting test (I do industrial maintenance) in a petfood factory a few years ago, loads of historical paperwork... according to the paperwork, there were 4 EML down their packing hall. I counted 7 when I tested them..... I think I was probably the only one that actually did test them.
Had a few "interesting conversations" regarding fire alarms without MCBs also (covered in 433.3.3, many blindly quote 462).
Spoken like a kitchen fitter 😂 bravo!
Really interesting listen. My biggest question however is how you display your script to yourself? I don't see you moving anything on or clicking despite hammering through over 5000 words. Whatever you do works well 👍
Very informative and entertaining. Can you advise if I’m allowed to change a faulty rcbo in CU or do I need a qualified sparky ?
A good idea to cover you on lighting circuits, you can use a fused spur RCD on the additional fitting ie o/s light, label it up fed via mcb lighting circuit and 3 amp fuse fitted!
Your finest work to date Monsieur Savery.
Massive, best laugh I’ve had ages when give us a reply to those misguided commentators. The regs ain’t law, they are only guidelines that when applied keep the judges at bay.
Wise words Dave, your right.. There's more "so called" electricians who don't give a shite these days than those who do. I'm a 16th edition, to present day spark, always like to think I do an honest days work. Am competent at what I do, but everyday I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with cowboys. Keep up the good work, I always watch your videos for inspiration and keeping my knowledge fresh. Good work old chap 😎👍
I know I'm going to have nightmares about badgers and marmite now!
Had a new install done 2 years ago. For some reason the landlord has been told that his cert has to be re done as of the new changes which is wrong. Not only did they fail the install he has discrepencies on the cert. That when I checked the blue book it confirmed that hes talking a lot of waffle. The question I'm trying to ask is does the new cert superceded the old 2 year old cert which still would have 3years to go on it.
There seems to be a grey area and can't get a clear answer.
Background info.
Apparently missing a earth of lighting up and downstairs. ( Rare for a break both up a downstairs for a new install) And having 40amps breaker run 6mm to the cooker. Both raised as c2. These also apparently check 80% of the install. Personally if I had checked 80% I would already know where the break is and just connect it while I'm there.
Thanks David keep up a good vids regards Matt
According the the report it's ref method C.
Hi Mateusz. If it's ref method C, then 6mm can deliver 40A and it's not a C2 or C3 unless there are other factors. If he already has a cert that is less than five years old and covers the installation, be that an EIC or an EICR, then that cert remains valid. There's no need for re-inspection until that document expires unless a reason crops up such as flood, fire, improper meddling, major alterations, etc. This is backed up in the NAPIT guidance document linked in the description.
Judge Dredd wanting all to comply, safe or not haha fucking hell.
Nice one David, as always. Enjoy your week and wish Nige all the best.
*stands and begins a standing ovation... encourages others to join in
Mr Savery. Great video. I have no electrical background whatsoever, but even I completely understood the previous video. What is more concerning, were the huge quantities of errors and conflicts on that EICR. As a consumer, I need honesty and professionalism, not some false report of condemnation, from a money grabbing charlatan of an electrical professional.
Perfectly stated, again. Well done. I wish could rant like you, I should practice. Your excellent commented detail (for me) represent quality and functional ability which requires research, citation and evidence rather than on price and appearance which does not. Good job.
I had all of this shite from a sparky sent by the letting agent. MeM plastic consumer unit fitted some years ago. A (potential) bill for250? Fak orf. Also it’s not just the dodgy electricians that ‘make’ money from it, it’s the faceless corporations in bed with the legislation making plebs, that also make a few bob. 'Qualified AND Competent...' That should be 'Qualified OR Competent'. imagine the horror of a qualified spark that isn't competent. I'd much prefer someone who is competent whilst not neccessarily being 'qualified'...
Another epic, thanks for taking the time David.
Another epic upload that's got me in stitches. Keep up the good educational work.
Good on you mate the plumbing business is the same ,lots of crap work about and guys using DIY materials making it look easy .no mate mice won't chew plastic piping its what everyone's using and no need to actually bend or offset pipework I'll just use flexys its not like they will burst or anything and yes a combi is fine for a five bathroom house it'll give you plenty hot water they so much easier to fit and I will come back every five years to renew it.so much pride in your work
Yep just seen the crap my new neighbours have had done , copper pipe externally to new downstairs bog plastic joints no additional bonding although externally unprotected pipe 8 inches off the ground , and the new bogs next to the main incoming supply and consumer unit . You can touch the taps and the consumer unit whilst parked on the bog
Hi David . I am like you and like to do a good job . And when you see how the students treat the electrical installation in the properties. Then fitting rccd protection is highly recommended. Also I have seen some of the electrical repairs the landlord's have done or have got someone else to carry out . And in both cases not good ..
I have been in this trade for a very long time and is coming to the end for me...😊
On another note what do you make of regulation 514.10 1 and also the on-site guide page 57 item 6.3 . Both give information on the same item but worded different. .. relates to 400 volts in equipment . More confusion. 😂
I saw a job advertised recently asking for 4 EICRs per day or a CU swap out and 2 EICR s per day 😫
Yet another great upload with real world words.
sadly I think its going to be harvest time for the cowboy sparks that will more than likey wreck a perfectly good and safe installation and install a unsafe new one.
no doubt the video on that will be on in the future.
I’m not entirely sure that changing a light fitting in a domestic dwelling equates to altering the circuit, and therefore 18th edition wouldn’t apply. Apart from the possible difference in the amount of energy the 2 fittings pull.....the characteristics of the circuit haven’t changed. There will be a responsibility to confirm the switching arrangement and compatibility etc....confirm the earthing is ok and possibly a couple of other checks, but changing a light fitting is very different to extending a circuit in the eyes of the regs.
(Just continued watching your video after pausing to write this comment, and realise you pretty much agree and already said what I did! 😂😂)
"People will like you better now there's no swearing!" Yea fuck that. You'd be the 1st sparky I'd call if you covered my area.
I'd be paying someone for their skills to do a task, not because their internal censor gets a flexing every day.
Best channel on RUclips absolutely howling