It's a downright shame to lose a good RUclipsr like you. You have a really pleasant presentation, give thoughtful points, and I think your puppet is a fun way of presenting yourself. Really liked your sabrina retrospective too. I understand the algorithm is pretty ruthless, and I totally get it. But personally, I really enjoyed your foray into RUclips. It is RUclips's loss to lose you.
He appears to have stopped several months ago. It's too bad too. I only discovered this channel fairly recently. I think the channel was already dead by that time. It was probably costing him money and/or it wasn't worth the amount of time he was putting in. Maybe he'll upload again at some point but I don't think this will ever be a prolific channel
Maybe that's why when I watched these my reaction to both were "they aight" lol. The actual plots were messes but it's clear what they're trying to thematically say. As for what made them or at least the first, work for the larger general public though, I still wouldn't be surprised if it was largely character design and getting lucky with how viral let it go became playing a huge part for the casual audience still, not to say anything of the writer's and animator's skills of course. And I knew Emperor's New Groove had troubled development but didn't know one of the heads left. A miracle that still ended up being one of Disney's absolute best films in my opinion lol. And while i understand the writer's plight, it's kinda impossible to look at the Yzma we did get and go "you were a mistake" even after learning the truth still. A case of going against the creator's vision potentially elevating a work. I'm glad we got the gut busting but heart warming buddy comedy, though would be lying to say I'm not curious about the timeline we got the lion king-esque epic.
Yeah, neither Frozen movie is perfect, but it's still interesting to see how much thought was given to the movies' themes and ideas. Whether or not the stories work, there's still a lot there to enjoy. And absolutely, I think the first movie definitely got lucky with the way "Let It Go" went viral. If you're a fan of the Emperor's New Groove, you might enjoy tracking down "The Sweatbox." One of the most interesting things is trying to figure out if the sweeping epic they were attempting to make would have actually been any good, or if we maybe lucked out by getting a wacky comedy instead.
God I miss this channel. I check up on it every couple weeks or so hoping a new video would be out. Whether it be Disney+ related with Ahsoka or Mando S3, or some 1980s or 1990s sitcom. I miss this channel.
I think another factor to make note of as to why the Frozen franchise has been so successful is the music. The songs accentuate the emotions presented through the plots and characters. If you were to make the movies into non-musicals the flaws would be even more clearer to see. The reason we ignore the messy logic of the Ice Cave full of memories is because we Are with Elsa belting out a hardcore power ballad that makes us feel seen. We ignore how Elsa "dying" doesn't make sense because we then see Anna come to terms with the fact that she is alone and has to move on through song. The musical score done by the Lopezes really add the emotional power to the franchise.
I think you're absolutely right. One of the weirdest things about the Frozen franchise is how the success of "Let it Go" kind of overshadowed how good the rest of the music is, and how much emotional heavy lifting it does.
i liked the first movie but the second one left an impression on me for days (mainly for the soundtrack). Just thinking about how the creators of one of the biggest animated blockbusters decided/were allowed to be way more ambitious thematically instead of taking the easy route and going "ice queen? well, here's a fire queen voiced by another celebrity!", regardless of how convoluted it may have ended. Also, Show Yourself is such a banger, it just is. Btw, I just found your channel and your content is so good! i'm happy for more puppet representation on youtube.
Another excellent video. I don't know if you've heard about the business book called 'Smarter, Faster, Better' by Charles Duhigg but it has a chapter on the making of Frozen and it shows how the production of the first movie was just as chaotic as the making of the sequel.
Thanks! And no, I hadn't heard of that book, but I'll definitely be looking it up! I'd heard production of the first Frozen was a bit chaotic, but I didn't know the story was laid out anywhere!
I rarely comment on RUclips, or in general, but I would like to add my personal opinion about the Frozen movies and your video. First off, Shawn I command you for analysing both movies' themes and taking in consideration all the Disney animation employees in your video! I personally enjoyed the second movie more than the 1st one for multiple reasons: 1. When Frozen came out, I was already in my 20s so I experienced it in a different way than those younger than me. I loved the theme of familial love and the many different types of love (which you mentioned). It was refreshing, especially for someone who grew up with the Disney Renaissance and beyond (which only showed romantic love as supreme). 2. Frozen 2 had something deeper and multi-layered. I believe that Frozen 2 grew up with its audience... meaning that with Frozen 1 they already set up solid themes: Familial love and Self-acceptance. Frozen 2 capitalized and went further ahead on both themes. Is your love/relationship strong enough to withstand living in different locations? What happens once you lose someone you love? Would you be able to make the sacrifices needed to become who you are meant to be? 3. Also, I felt that the songs in Frozen 2 were more coherent with one another (aside from the 80s rock-ballad Kristof had, which was a fun throwback). For example, "All is found" is directly integrated into "Show yourself" (which always makes me cry). "Some things never change" and "The next right thing" directly tie into Anna's challenges in the movie. I know this is a long comment and many will disagree with me, but I felt like your channel is open-minded enough to welcome various and different interpretation on the same subject. Always looking forward to your next video @Shawn B. Ryan :)
First of all, thank you so much for commenting! I really do appreciate it! I really like your reading of the films, and I wish that I'd thought of contrasting Frozen's views of love with the ones expressed by earlier Disney films. I also agree about the songs in Frozen 2 being a bit more coherent with one another than the songs in the first film were. (As catchy as "Fixer Upper" is, boy does the movie not need a song at that moment, as Anna slowly dies in the background...) In terms of Kristoff's song in Frozen 2, it really makes me wish that he'd gotten a more coherent storyline. You can kind of imagine that, after rejecting humanity for most of his life, he's afraid of losing his main connection to it, but they never really spell it out. Thank you again for taking the time to leave that comment. This is a small RUclips channel and I'm still very self-conscious about making these videos, so your encouragement really means a lot!
I really enjoyed this analysis of Frozen! Working in the creative field, I can definitely relate to the struggles the animation team felt. My day job is working with publishers on a lot of cover designs for large titles, but unfortunately between corporate and client decisions, I've seen many of my favorite concepts discarded with many hours wasted. Speaking to the films, unfortunately I've only seen the first film. I do believe the music and some of the more progressive messages of the film (not needing a romantic partner to feel loved, recognizing that conventionally nice and attractive people can also be villains) is what really pushed it over the edge, on top of having Olaf, which was a hype character/mascot for the franchise. They were good twists to the typical story conventions, but you're right in saying that the story was a bit scattered with not having a solid enough path narratively. I think that is why it never resonated with me enough to rewatch, in contrast to other films like Luca and Encanto which felt a bit more complete/cohesive and as a result more endearing to me.
Oof, sorry about your struggles dealing with clients and folks on the business side of things. I've got a lot of sympathy for people who are super creative but have to work within a corporate structure like that. I can see how the lack of a strong storyline would make it hard to rewatch. I like that you cite Luca and Encanto as comparisons, as both films have much stronger narratives while also containing some really interesting themes and ideas.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos I really appreciate that Shawn! Fortunately it does not prevent me from enjoying my job, as a greater majority of pieces I am passionate about do make it to fruition, but of course this are still the gripes we have to deal with in the industry.
I largely agree with what you have said. And I largely enjoyed the second movie. I still think the river should have taken out Arendale, especially through the lens of exploring the inevitability of/necessity for change (which was a theme I acknowledged on my first viewing in the cinema).
I agree about the river hitting Arendelle. It felt like there needed to be some consequences, and that the kingdom (or at least the castle) being hit could have been a good way to resolve the damage that had been done. There's a rumor that maybe the castle was meant to be destroyed, but that Disney vetoed it due to Disneyland Paris planning to build it as part of a Frozen area.
Honestly hearing your arguments makes a lot of sense, but I’m also a huge lover of good story telling and man…if they just had the time to tighten up this themes with a proper story…I feel like their themes would have hit WAY harder
I'm really enjoying watching your videos analyzing many forms of entertaining media. I hope you're doing well & I hope to watch more of your content if you have enough free time. Keep up your amazing work! 😊
I loved the show growing up and I even bought the dvd boxset when I was in my early 20s. I remember reading that the last season love interest for Sabrina was only written in it because the actor who played Josh wanted to leave the show. Initially they wanted Josh and Sabrina to get married, and for some reason they decided to keep the wedding plotline and just swap Josh for this new guy Aaron, which made it incredibly rushed and very strange to watch. I also remember that pretty much as soon as Sabrina left the college the amount of magic in the show went down exponentially as the seasons went on and it was very disappointing. It felt like an extreme over correction from the previous seasons, being very magic heavy and not much reality. But then made it too reality heavy, with the odd magic storyline when they remembered they can do that, or simply reverting magic to be a relatively minor part of the b plot
@ShawnBRyan Having found your videos around a year after you gave up, and thoroughly enjoying the content you have created, I am lamenting your departure from RUclips! I hope you are doing something even more fun nowadays :)
I loved Frozen 1 because of all the abstract concepts in the movie. Where did de parents were going when they died? Why Elsa has powers? How they work? How Olaf is alive? Who ruled the kingdom when the parents died? I loved the concept of not having to explain everything in detail to make to movie work. The second was ok, but they spent a lot of time explaining everything and that kinda lost the magic of the first one.
This is some fascinating stuff. For me, I always thought Tangled was the more enjoyable movie and was a bit confused why it seemed to be so passed over for Frozen. I always put it up to 3 main things: 1) The music (or at least the one song) 2) The quirky Olaf 3) The main theme of sisterhood and family taking over for the normal Romance As for Frozen 2, I thought it was good enough. Sequels to this type of thing are usually a losing battle. Either you try to play it safe, and then you make nothing but a copy of the original, or you go all out and people get mad that it ISN'T enough like the first one. I tend to think these types of sequels should be about a new story set within the same universe...but maybe that's just me. I'm the guy who likes "Return of Jafar" best out of the Aladdin films. Ya know, the one everyone says is the worst Disney sequel. haha.
Yeah, I agree it's sad that Tangled got a bit overshadowed by Frozen. (Though Tangled did get a well-received 60-episode animated series, so that's not nothing.) I think you're right about the reasons Frozen became a bigger hit. To me, another difference between Tangled and Frozen is how much Tangled tried to center the story around Flynn. He provides the narration, he delivers the final blow to the villain, and he gets a lot of the film's funniest moments. Meanwhile, Frozen lets Anna and Elsa be the center of attention. And as someone who grew up with Return of Jafar, I agree about it being better than its reputation.
Personally I disagree with your premise, the big message I'm getting from your video is that "Frozen 2's story and characters are bad but the themes and messages are good so we should like it for that!" You seems to really be trying to say Frozen 2 is good because of its themes and also potentially because of the tumultuous production. I will say I do understand at least to an extent what you're getting at. There are objectively worse things out there than Frozen 2 so trying to point out the good in something bad is something I appreciate. My disagreement is that you seem to think it's wrong for people to take issue with story and character, but the thing is that's the foundation of all good entertainment. Stories are not good because of their themes, themes are important and every good piece of fiction has a theme to it but that theme should add to the narrative, the narrative should feel sound and the characters should feel genuine. One of the most reviled episodes of The Fairly Odd Parents for example is a Wishful Life, which had the message of not doing things for praise but doing things because it's the right thing to do, a decent message but the entire episode is so poorly written it essentially ruins the theme and muddies the message into to something terrible. My point being trying to excuse the faults of writing with the theme is just that, an excuse. I will say I understand the idea of at least respecting the movie in regards to its production. I'm personally a huge fan of the anime Black Clover, an anime that objectively has terrible production values but was forced that due to its scheduling, but in that same breath I'm not going to deny the bad production. I guess what I'm saying is that saying Frozen 2 is good for it's themes is wrong to me, and implying its wrong to dislike it for it's writing doesn't sit well with me. If your point was more to try and provide appreciation to the film I can at least understand and respect that.
I'll admit that the title of this video isn't great, and it makes me seem a bit more argumentative than I was trying to be. (I'm still learning how to summarize my main points in a quick, attention-grabbing title, and I wasn't entirely successful here.) I completely apologize for giving off the impression that I was saying that it's wrong to dislike the Frozen movies. I totally respect anyone who doesn't like Frozen 2, and I completely see their perspective. I actually think I might spend more time in this video detailing the films' flaws than I do talking about the things I enjoyed. My point isn't that people are wrong for disliking Frozen 2, but that there are some very good elements that can easily be ignored if you're too focused on the film's shortcomings. You make a really, really good point about whether or not a work can succeed based on its themes and ideas alone. To some extent, I think it might be a matter of taste. I feel like I'd rather watch a sloppily made story that has interesting ideas than a well-constructed story that doesn't have anything interesting to say. But I completely respect that other people will feel totally differently. Again, I want to apologize for giving the wrong impression, and I want to thank you for taking the time to leave such a thoughtful comment articulating your opinion.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos Thank you for the reply! And I will reiterate I do like your take about seeing the good in something flawed. Hell that's why I still believe art is subjective even when seeing arguments of objectivity because even if a work is objectively bad it's still subjective as to whether or not the objective flaws bother someone. I'm also not gonna sit here and act like I only enjoy objectively good works when I can tell you there are plenty of things I love that are panned by critics and audiences. I had a feeling the problem was more with how you were saying things and not what you were actually saying, and for what it's worth I hope I wasn't coming off as too combative. Side note, I think you made this point a lot better in your Star Wars sequel video (I'm actually a relatively new subscriber but I watched some of your back catalog haha)
@@n-riv8101 Nah, you weren't being combative at all! And thanks for subscribing and checking out some older videos. Sorry that you have to witness me figuring out how to keep the camera in focus... meanwhile, I'm still working on making the microphone sound decent! I suppose one of the themes of this channel is trying to enjoy stuff that other people might dismiss. So much RUclips commentary is spent finding faults and bashing things, it's kind of fun to take the opposite view and argue that nonsense like "Alf" and the Sequel Trilogy have value. I'll keep working on my tone and hopefully I'll find a better way of expressing my thoughts in future videos!
I did notice that many people didn't seem to even realize the theme of colonialism in Frozen 2 (and no offense to Jenny, but her re-write includes an evil lesbian driving Elsa away from the straights). My general impression is that people didn't get Frozen 2, even thought it was pretty clear to me
I admire your effort to find some substance thematically in that messy sequel. I don't think the first film is bad or amazing, just good. Both are very pretty, well animated, with good music... etc. But I really didn't like the sequel's story... mostly because of how it didn't support it's own themes. At least in the first one, everything plot-wise, as non-sensical as it got, did fall back on the two sister's personal connection. The ladder film did not succeed in this regard, in my opinion. It felt like a story born out of ways to connect to a theme as quickly as possible to meet a deadline. It still made a lot of money though! Here's hoping the third film has a clear vision... though with money being the catalyst for Disney ordering another one, who knows.
While I can see your perspective, I dont think that themes are enough to carry a film. I also think that monetary sucess shouldnt be the barrier for when a film works or not. If a film is body, the themes are the meat. But the plot and story are the bones. They are the foundation of what is being presented. Without plot themes are just ideas and the Frozen franchise just doesnt have a strong enough plot to be considered good. Frozen feels sterile and confusing because its just ideas. It invoking meaning where there should be.
It's a downright shame to lose a good RUclipsr like you. You have a really pleasant presentation, give thoughtful points, and I think your puppet is a fun way of presenting yourself. Really liked your sabrina retrospective too. I understand the algorithm is pretty ruthless, and I totally get it. But personally, I really enjoyed your foray into RUclips. It is RUclips's loss to lose you.
Wait what happened? Never seen this guy before
He has made his last video this one 7months ago
Aw man, I just started getting into this channel; he's not producing video essays anymore?
I love that you've taken such care in exploring these nuances, holy cow, please don't stop doing what you do
He appears to have stopped several months ago. It's too bad too. I only discovered this channel fairly recently. I think the channel was already dead by that time. It was probably costing him money and/or it wasn't worth the amount of time he was putting in. Maybe he'll upload again at some point but I don't think this will ever be a prolific channel
Maybe that's why when I watched these my reaction to both were "they aight" lol. The actual plots were messes but it's clear what they're trying to thematically say. As for what made them or at least the first, work for the larger general public though, I still wouldn't be surprised if it was largely character design and getting lucky with how viral let it go became playing a huge part for the casual audience still, not to say anything of the writer's and animator's skills of course.
And I knew Emperor's New Groove had troubled development but didn't know one of the heads left. A miracle that still ended up being one of Disney's absolute best films in my opinion lol. And while i understand the writer's plight, it's kinda impossible to look at the Yzma we did get and go "you were a mistake" even after learning the truth still. A case of going against the creator's vision potentially elevating a work. I'm glad we got the gut busting but heart warming buddy comedy, though would be lying to say I'm not curious about the timeline we got the lion king-esque epic.
Yeah, neither Frozen movie is perfect, but it's still interesting to see how much thought was given to the movies' themes and ideas. Whether or not the stories work, there's still a lot there to enjoy. And absolutely, I think the first movie definitely got lucky with the way "Let It Go" went viral.
If you're a fan of the Emperor's New Groove, you might enjoy tracking down "The Sweatbox." One of the most interesting things is trying to figure out if the sweeping epic they were attempting to make would have actually been any good, or if we maybe lucked out by getting a wacky comedy instead.
God I miss this channel.
I check up on it every couple weeks or so hoping a new video would be out. Whether it be Disney+ related with Ahsoka or Mando S3, or some 1980s or 1990s sitcom.
I miss this channel.
I think another factor to make note of as to why the Frozen franchise has been so successful is the music. The songs accentuate the emotions presented through the plots and characters. If you were to make the movies into non-musicals the flaws would be even more clearer to see. The reason we ignore the messy logic of the Ice Cave full of memories is because we Are with Elsa belting out a hardcore power ballad that makes us feel seen. We ignore how Elsa "dying" doesn't make sense because we then see Anna come to terms with the fact that she is alone and has to move on through song. The musical score done by the Lopezes really add the emotional power to the franchise.
I think you're absolutely right. One of the weirdest things about the Frozen franchise is how the success of "Let it Go" kind of overshadowed how good the rest of the music is, and how much emotional heavy lifting it does.
i liked the first movie but the second one left an impression on me for days (mainly for the soundtrack). Just thinking about how the creators of one of the biggest animated blockbusters decided/were allowed to be way more ambitious thematically instead of taking the easy route and going "ice queen? well, here's a fire queen voiced by another celebrity!", regardless of how convoluted it may have ended. Also, Show Yourself is such a banger, it just is.
Btw, I just found your channel and your content is so good! i'm happy for more puppet representation on youtube.
Another excellent video. I don't know if you've heard about the business book called 'Smarter, Faster, Better' by Charles Duhigg but it has a chapter on the making of Frozen and it shows how the production of the first movie was just as chaotic as the making of the sequel.
Thanks! And no, I hadn't heard of that book, but I'll definitely be looking it up! I'd heard production of the first Frozen was a bit chaotic, but I didn't know the story was laid out anywhere!
I rarely comment on RUclips, or in general, but I would like to add my personal opinion about the Frozen movies and your video.
First off, Shawn I command you for analysing both movies' themes and taking in consideration all the Disney animation employees in your video!
I personally enjoyed the second movie more than the 1st one for multiple reasons:
1. When Frozen came out, I was already in my 20s so I experienced it in a different way than those younger than me. I loved the theme of familial love and the many different types of love (which you mentioned). It was refreshing, especially for someone who grew up with the Disney Renaissance and beyond (which only showed romantic love as supreme).
2. Frozen 2 had something deeper and multi-layered. I believe that Frozen 2 grew up with its audience... meaning that with Frozen 1 they already set up solid themes: Familial love and Self-acceptance. Frozen 2 capitalized and went further ahead on both themes. Is your love/relationship strong enough to withstand living in different locations? What happens once you lose someone you love? Would you be able to make the sacrifices needed to become who you are meant to be?
3. Also, I felt that the songs in Frozen 2 were more coherent with one another (aside from the 80s rock-ballad Kristof had, which was a fun throwback). For example, "All is found" is directly integrated into "Show yourself" (which always makes me cry). "Some things never change" and "The next right thing" directly tie into Anna's challenges in the movie.
I know this is a long comment and many will disagree with me, but I felt like your channel is open-minded enough to welcome various and different interpretation on the same subject.
Always looking forward to your next video @Shawn B. Ryan :)
First of all, thank you so much for commenting! I really do appreciate it!
I really like your reading of the films, and I wish that I'd thought of contrasting Frozen's views of love with the ones expressed by earlier Disney films.
I also agree about the songs in Frozen 2 being a bit more coherent with one another than the songs in the first film were. (As catchy as "Fixer Upper" is, boy does the movie not need a song at that moment, as Anna slowly dies in the background...)
In terms of Kristoff's song in Frozen 2, it really makes me wish that he'd gotten a more coherent storyline. You can kind of imagine that, after rejecting humanity for most of his life, he's afraid of losing his main connection to it, but they never really spell it out.
Thank you again for taking the time to leave that comment. This is a small RUclips channel and I'm still very self-conscious about making these videos, so your encouragement really means a lot!
I really enjoyed this analysis of Frozen! Working in the creative field, I can definitely relate to the struggles the animation team felt. My day job is working with publishers on a lot of cover designs for large titles, but unfortunately between corporate and client decisions, I've seen many of my favorite concepts discarded with many hours wasted. Speaking to the films, unfortunately I've only seen the first film. I do believe the music and some of the more progressive messages of the film (not needing a romantic partner to feel loved, recognizing that conventionally nice and attractive people can also be villains) is what really pushed it over the edge, on top of having Olaf, which was a hype character/mascot for the franchise. They were good twists to the typical story conventions, but you're right in saying that the story was a bit scattered with not having a solid enough path narratively. I think that is why it never resonated with me enough to rewatch, in contrast to other films like Luca and Encanto which felt a bit more complete/cohesive and as a result more endearing to me.
Oof, sorry about your struggles dealing with clients and folks on the business side of things. I've got a lot of sympathy for people who are super creative but have to work within a corporate structure like that.
I can see how the lack of a strong storyline would make it hard to rewatch. I like that you cite Luca and Encanto as comparisons, as both films have much stronger narratives while also containing some really interesting themes and ideas.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos I really appreciate that Shawn! Fortunately it does not prevent me from enjoying my job, as a greater majority of pieces I am passionate about do make it to fruition, but of course this are still the gripes we have to deal with in the industry.
I largely agree with what you have said. And I largely enjoyed the second movie. I still think the river should have taken out Arendale, especially through the lens of exploring the inevitability of/necessity for change (which was a theme I acknowledged on my first viewing in the cinema).
I agree about the river hitting Arendelle. It felt like there needed to be some consequences, and that the kingdom (or at least the castle) being hit could have been a good way to resolve the damage that had been done.
There's a rumor that maybe the castle was meant to be destroyed, but that Disney vetoed it due to Disneyland Paris planning to build it as part of a Frozen area.
@ShawnBRyanVideos I'd believe that. There seemed to be so much fore shadowing.
Honestly hearing your arguments makes a lot of sense, but I’m also a huge lover of good story telling and man…if they just had the time to tighten up this themes with a proper story…I feel like their themes would have hit WAY harder
I'm really enjoying watching your videos analyzing many forms of entertaining media. I hope you're doing well & I hope to watch more of your content if you have enough free time. Keep up your amazing work! 😊
Please make more videos, I miss you!
Great take! Fascinating as always
I guess he took the frozen approach with the channel and let it go
I loved the show growing up and I even bought the dvd boxset when I was in my early 20s. I remember reading that the last season love interest for Sabrina was only written in it because the actor who played Josh wanted to leave the show. Initially they wanted Josh and Sabrina to get married, and for some reason they decided to keep the wedding plotline and just swap Josh for this new guy Aaron, which made it incredibly rushed and very strange to watch. I also remember that pretty much as soon as Sabrina left the college the amount of magic in the show went down exponentially as the seasons went on and it was very disappointing. It felt like an extreme over correction from the previous seasons, being very magic heavy and not much reality. But then made it too reality heavy, with the odd magic storyline when they remembered they can do that, or simply reverting magic to be a relatively minor part of the b plot
If you're watching the Frozen movies at all, you're watching them wrong...
Nah im 16 and i still love frozen
Ha!
@ShawnBRyan Having found your videos around a year after you gave up, and thoroughly enjoying the content you have created, I am lamenting your departure from RUclips! I hope you are doing something even more fun nowadays :)
I loved Frozen 1 because of all the abstract concepts in the movie. Where did de parents were going when they died? Why Elsa has powers? How they work? How Olaf is alive? Who ruled the kingdom when the parents died?
I loved the concept of not having to explain everything in detail to make to movie work.
The second was ok, but they spent a lot of time explaining everything and that kinda lost the magic of the first one.
This is some fascinating stuff. For me, I always thought Tangled was the more enjoyable movie and was a bit confused why it seemed to be so passed over for Frozen. I always put it up to 3 main things:
1) The music (or at least the one song)
2) The quirky Olaf
3) The main theme of sisterhood and family taking over for the normal Romance
As for Frozen 2, I thought it was good enough. Sequels to this type of thing are usually a losing battle. Either you try to play it safe, and then you make nothing but a copy of the original, or you go all out and people get mad that it ISN'T enough like the first one. I tend to think these types of sequels should be about a new story set within the same universe...but maybe that's just me. I'm the guy who likes "Return of Jafar" best out of the Aladdin films. Ya know, the one everyone says is the worst Disney sequel. haha.
Yeah, I agree it's sad that Tangled got a bit overshadowed by Frozen. (Though Tangled did get a well-received 60-episode animated series, so that's not nothing.)
I think you're right about the reasons Frozen became a bigger hit. To me, another difference between Tangled and Frozen is how much Tangled tried to center the story around Flynn. He provides the narration, he delivers the final blow to the villain, and he gets a lot of the film's funniest moments. Meanwhile, Frozen lets Anna and Elsa be the center of attention.
And as someone who grew up with Return of Jafar, I agree about it being better than its reputation.
This kid turned off his comments on the young sheldon video 😂😂😂😂 not gunna make it if you cant tale criticism espwcially when the video was kinda ass
Personally I disagree with your premise, the big message I'm getting from your video is that "Frozen 2's story and characters are bad but the themes and messages are good so we should like it for that!" You seems to really be trying to say Frozen 2 is good because of its themes and also potentially because of the tumultuous production. I will say I do understand at least to an extent what you're getting at. There are objectively worse things out there than Frozen 2 so trying to point out the good in something bad is something I appreciate. My disagreement is that you seem to think it's wrong for people to take issue with story and character, but the thing is that's the foundation of all good entertainment. Stories are not good because of their themes, themes are important and every good piece of fiction has a theme to it but that theme should add to the narrative, the narrative should feel sound and the characters should feel genuine. One of the most reviled episodes of The Fairly Odd Parents for example is a Wishful Life, which had the message of not doing things for praise but doing things because it's the right thing to do, a decent message but the entire episode is so poorly written it essentially ruins the theme and muddies the message into to something terrible. My point being trying to excuse the faults of writing with the theme is just that, an excuse. I will say I understand the idea of at least respecting the movie in regards to its production. I'm personally a huge fan of the anime Black Clover, an anime that objectively has terrible production values but was forced that due to its scheduling, but in that same breath I'm not going to deny the bad production. I guess what I'm saying is that saying Frozen 2 is good for it's themes is wrong to me, and implying its wrong to dislike it for it's writing doesn't sit well with me. If your point was more to try and provide appreciation to the film I can at least understand and respect that.
I'll admit that the title of this video isn't great, and it makes me seem a bit more argumentative than I was trying to be. (I'm still learning how to summarize my main points in a quick, attention-grabbing title, and I wasn't entirely successful here.) I completely apologize for giving off the impression that I was saying that it's wrong to dislike the Frozen movies.
I totally respect anyone who doesn't like Frozen 2, and I completely see their perspective. I actually think I might spend more time in this video detailing the films' flaws than I do talking about the things I enjoyed. My point isn't that people are wrong for disliking Frozen 2, but that there are some very good elements that can easily be ignored if you're too focused on the film's shortcomings.
You make a really, really good point about whether or not a work can succeed based on its themes and ideas alone. To some extent, I think it might be a matter of taste. I feel like I'd rather watch a sloppily made story that has interesting ideas than a well-constructed story that doesn't have anything interesting to say. But I completely respect that other people will feel totally differently.
Again, I want to apologize for giving the wrong impression, and I want to thank you for taking the time to leave such a thoughtful comment articulating your opinion.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos Thank you for the reply! And I will reiterate I do like your take about seeing the good in something flawed. Hell that's why I still believe art is subjective even when seeing arguments of objectivity because even if a work is objectively bad it's still subjective as to whether or not the objective flaws bother someone. I'm also not gonna sit here and act like I only enjoy objectively good works when I can tell you there are plenty of things I love that are panned by critics and audiences. I had a feeling the problem was more with how you were saying things and not what you were actually saying, and for what it's worth I hope I wasn't coming off as too combative. Side note, I think you made this point a lot better in your Star Wars sequel video (I'm actually a relatively new subscriber but I watched some of your back catalog haha)
@@n-riv8101 Nah, you weren't being combative at all! And thanks for subscribing and checking out some older videos. Sorry that you have to witness me figuring out how to keep the camera in focus... meanwhile, I'm still working on making the microphone sound decent!
I suppose one of the themes of this channel is trying to enjoy stuff that other people might dismiss. So much RUclips commentary is spent finding faults and bashing things, it's kind of fun to take the opposite view and argue that nonsense like "Alf" and the Sequel Trilogy have value. I'll keep working on my tone and hopefully I'll find a better way of expressing my thoughts in future videos!
Why you post a video about Young Sheldon and turn off the comments ?
Was wondering that too, shame we probably won't know why
"Frozen" was lightning in a bottle that "Frozen 2" just couldn't recapture.
I did notice that many people didn't seem to even realize the theme of colonialism in Frozen 2 (and no offense to Jenny, but her re-write includes an evil lesbian driving Elsa away from the straights). My general impression is that people didn't get Frozen 2, even thought it was pretty clear to me
I’m going to try a new approach.
I’ll be commenting every day until his triumphant return.
-Day 1 waiting
M
I admire your effort to find some substance thematically in that messy sequel. I don't think the first film is bad or amazing, just good. Both are very pretty, well animated, with good music... etc. But I really didn't like the sequel's story... mostly because of how it didn't support it's own themes. At least in the first one, everything plot-wise, as non-sensical as it got, did fall back on the two sister's personal connection. The ladder film did not succeed in this regard, in my opinion. It felt like a story born out of ways to connect to a theme as quickly as possible to meet a deadline. It still made a lot of money though! Here's hoping the third film has a clear vision... though with money being the catalyst for Disney ordering another one, who knows.
While I can see your perspective, I dont think that themes are enough to carry a film. I also think that monetary sucess shouldnt be the barrier for when a film works or not. If a film is body, the themes are the meat. But the plot and story are the bones. They are the foundation of what is being presented. Without plot themes are just ideas and the Frozen franchise just doesnt have a strong enough plot to be considered good. Frozen feels sterile and confusing because its just ideas. It invoking meaning where there should be.
bro thinks young sheldon is bad, every opinion you make is wrong, muppet lookin