Hey CAP, can you do this: In the 70s one Albanian MiG-21 was intercepted by two yugoslavs MiG-21. The Albanian plane was forced to land in an airbase in todays Kosovo. While landing, when the yugoslav MiGs opened the parachute, the Albanian MiG taked off with afterburner on and escaped from the airbase and returned in Albania. Sadly the same pilot died in a crash with the same plane in 1982.
+GrimReapersAtomic *A tight starboard-echelon formation is routinely used in the Navy and Marine Corps for VMC CarQual,* descending to 400' above the waves at 300 kt parallel to the carrier with arresting hooks extended for the Air Boss and Landing Officers, prior to break left at five-second intervals to set up for the pattern.
Hey Super Cap, I have a question that I’m too lazy to answer myself. I fly the F-16 in DCS quite a bit and have found my ability to attack any ground targets defended by even an agitated mob difficult. I noticed today that I can drop GBUs before the release cue and still hit the target. Question: What is the range of a GBU from an F-16?
Just saying, none of these are tactical formations. These are way to close together. Tactical formations are much more widely spaced. A good resource on Tactical Formations is pages 25-35 here fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf , and pages 3-27 - 3-39 here falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Basic-Employment-Manual-F-16C-RoKAF.pdf.
Cap, have you read Bob Masons `ChickenHawk`? A UH1 pilot`s Vietnam memoir? In it he describes the initial terror of close formation flying in Hueys. Wedge formations in close order with OVERLAPPING rotor blades at 2-3 feet vertical separation! Might be worth a go with the gang on here for shits and giggles.
Real world, if you are close enough then it will look like an airliner (blob on very old, raw radars, single contact on new synthetic displays). However, flying close formation to avoid radar knowing your numbers is an effective strategy against early warning radars only. Fighter radars from the 90s onwards have Raid Cluster Resolution functions, where the radar can use Doppler effects to figure out the number of different aircraft inside a single resolution return. In an F-16, it's a single square, but if you cursor over the contact it tells you how many aircraft are in that square.
Those are all rigid formations. Good for training pilots, showing off on your RTB, or transiting IF. Not particularly useful for going fighting. Given the nature of AI formation in DCS, everything will be rigid. They don't really do flexible thinking. For humans, though, with 2 aircraft your basic options are fighting wing, trail and double attack. They can be thought of as wider, more flexible versions of your echelon, line astern (the close trail in the video), and line abreast. The major difference is the freedom to maneuver. In rigid formation, you hold your references and juggle power accordingly. Its a lot focus, a lot of effort, and in wider variants like route (wide echelon) requires a lot of movement. In flexible formations, you maneuver to station keep, using lead, lag, and plane to manage your relative energy. In fighting wing, your wingman lives in a 30-60 degree cone, 500-1000' from you, with some stack up/down. As you maneuver, he collapses in to your line of maneuver to keep his distance, and then widens out after maneuvering. This is your flexible, comfortable, default option. Trail is either visual trail, or radar trail. Directly behind at some specified distance (often a mile), no altitude stack (wake turbulence/jetwash sinks). Turns, 2 overflies the point where lead turned, and then turns. Good for low alt, CAS, anything where 2 needs to go through the same piece of sky lead did. Double attack is line abreast with wide (1 mile +) spacing. Limited to no vertical stack depending on application. Turning is much more complicated, ie for 90 degree turns into wingman you turn, and he turns as you pass behind. Turns away, you cue him to turn and then go when he crosses behind you. Great for low alt ingress, and bullying someone in a 2v1 (bad guy has to pick one of you, engaged party turns cold, free party presses). These get modified further based on tactics and airframe-specific considerations, and you won't (or shouldn't) find those conversations on the internet.
Excellent read thanks for this. I'm trying to find some guys to practice flexible combat formations. I fly WT sim and il2 stalingrad. I have hotas, pedals and vr headset. Hit me up if you would care to fly sometime, id love to pick your brain and keep learning to be a better pilot. Thanks 😁
Hi Grim reapers... I was wondering if your could review (area 88) this-ruclips.net/video/iBFfqYfuZKw/видео.html I wanted to send you a request for it, but I don't know if you usually see the full movie or just clips of it. Do I need to trim the good parts?
A bit of background information would have been nice: what is the purpose of each formation, tactical advantage, when to use each formation etc
he did say he plans to go into more in depth info on the subject later. This was just a quick introduction to it.
Roger, need to research this and will make another vid.
Agree
Hey CAP, can you do this: In the 70s one Albanian MiG-21 was intercepted by two yugoslavs MiG-21. The Albanian plane was forced to land in an airbase in todays Kosovo. While landing, when the yugoslav MiGs opened the parachute, the Albanian MiG taked off with afterburner on and escaped from the airbase and returned in Albania. Sadly the same pilot died in a crash with the same plane in 1982.
+GrimReapersAtomic *A tight starboard-echelon formation is routinely used in the Navy and Marine Corps for VMC CarQual,* descending to 400' above the waves at 300 kt parallel to the carrier with arresting hooks extended for the Air Boss and Landing Officers, prior to break left at five-second intervals to set up for the pattern.
+Grim Reapers the best way to think of finger four formation is to stretch your fingers out and put them together then look at them from the top down
Thx to this video I can train my air core for my GTA PMC some formations
Im not a pilot but damn this is interesting
Great little vid. You should definitely make a video of you and the boys trying out some areobatics .
I'm doing well, thank you
Hey Super Cap, I have a question that I’m too lazy to answer myself. I fly the F-16 in DCS quite a bit and have found my ability to attack any ground targets defended by even an agitated mob difficult. I noticed today that I can drop GBUs before the release cue and still hit the target. Question: What is the range of a GBU from an F-16?
We found the limit is the laser rather than the bomb. We've got 32 miles if someone else lazes the bomb. Will re-do in a modern vid.
Amazing content keep it up and stay safe
Interesting but VO could be done after mute the background noise. ☺
Hey grim I want to try any variants of the 5 plane formation
Hey Cap! What are your thoughts on Falcon bms, is it more realistic than DCS and which modules from falcon you wanna see in DCS
I've never tried BMS so I can;t comment. I know people love it and Im sure it's great. Just not really much point now we have Falcon in DCS?
Maybe it's better Single PlayeR?
Thanks!
@@silverwolf6964 It has a fully dynamic campaign and a fully functional F16. Fly both and look forward to DCS F16 getting full systems etc
Is it more realistic? Yes.
You displayed parade formations rather than combat ones... You may like to do some research on flying formation in combat.
Exactly. I'm currently looking for some guys to practice proper finger 4. I fly WT sim and il2 stalingrad hit me up of you're interested 😁
Just saying, none of these are tactical formations. These are way to close together. Tactical formations are much more widely spaced. A good resource on Tactical Formations is pages 25-35 here fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf , and pages 3-27 - 3-39 here falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Basic-Employment-Manual-F-16C-RoKAF.pdf.
Yes good point. They are far too close for tactical.
Cap, have you read Bob Masons `ChickenHawk`? A UH1 pilot`s Vietnam memoir? In it he describes the initial terror of close formation flying in Hueys. Wedge formations in close order with OVERLAPPING rotor blades at 2-3 feet vertical separation! Might be worth a go with the gang on here for shits and giggles.
Wow that sounds awesome.
So if you have 4 fighters in close formation does the enemy radar show all 4 or will it look like an airliner for example.
Interesting Q. Depends on radar. Assuming formation VERY tight then F-15C radar shows 1. F-18C radar shows 4, with the zoom function available.
Real world, if you are close enough then it will look like an airliner (blob on very old, raw radars, single contact on new synthetic displays). However, flying close formation to avoid radar knowing your numbers is an effective strategy against early warning radars only. Fighter radars from the 90s onwards have Raid Cluster Resolution functions, where the radar can use Doppler effects to figure out the number of different aircraft inside a single resolution return.
In an F-16, it's a single square, but if you cursor over the contact it tells you how many aircraft are in that square.
what commands do i put so they do that mine dont work
Why is the writing reversed on the tails? Are we supposed to fly the formations in reverse as well?
Well spotted Sir...
@@grimreapersThanks. Such a tiny thing, but it is the splash screen. First impressions, you know….
Great
Cap i d like some stickers . you have an online store?
YES if you can't find please contact Kingston in Discord who sorts it all out.
Those are all rigid formations. Good for training pilots, showing off on your RTB, or transiting IF. Not particularly useful for going fighting. Given the nature of AI formation in DCS, everything will be rigid. They don't really do flexible thinking.
For humans, though, with 2 aircraft your basic options are fighting wing, trail and double attack. They can be thought of as wider, more flexible versions of your echelon, line astern (the close trail in the video), and line abreast. The major difference is the freedom to maneuver. In rigid formation, you hold your references and juggle power accordingly. Its a lot focus, a lot of effort, and in wider variants like route (wide echelon) requires a lot of movement. In flexible formations, you maneuver to station keep, using lead, lag, and plane to manage your relative energy.
In fighting wing, your wingman lives in a 30-60 degree cone, 500-1000' from you, with some stack up/down. As you maneuver, he collapses in to your line of maneuver to keep his distance, and then widens out after maneuvering. This is your flexible, comfortable, default option.
Trail is either visual trail, or radar trail. Directly behind at some specified distance (often a mile), no altitude stack (wake turbulence/jetwash sinks). Turns, 2 overflies the point where lead turned, and then turns. Good for low alt, CAS, anything where 2 needs to go through the same piece of sky lead did.
Double attack is line abreast with wide (1 mile +) spacing. Limited to no vertical stack depending on application. Turning is much more complicated, ie for 90 degree turns into wingman you turn, and he turns as you pass behind. Turns away, you cue him to turn and then go when he crosses behind you. Great for low alt ingress, and bullying someone in a 2v1 (bad guy has to pick one of you, engaged party turns cold, free party presses).
These get modified further based on tactics and airframe-specific considerations, and you won't (or shouldn't) find those conversations on the internet.
Excellent read thanks for this. I'm trying to find some guys to practice flexible combat formations. I fly WT sim and il2 stalingrad. I have hotas, pedals and vr headset. Hit me up if you would care to fly sometime, id love to pick your brain and keep learning to be a better pilot. Thanks 😁
I don’t play this game but want to learn more about these types of things. Any idea where I can?
that was nowhere near a Diamond.... Diamond looks like a Diamond shape in the plan view................that was a 1970s art painting
4:07, the wingman is waaaay sucked (behind the reference line).
😁
Hi Grim reapers...
I was wondering if your could review
(area 88) this-ruclips.net/video/iBFfqYfuZKw/видео.html
I wanted to send you a request for it, but I don't know if you usually see the full movie or just clips of it. Do I need to trim the good parts?
Roger, it's on the list, just can;t seem to get around to it.
i want that skin
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