I agree 100%. I don't care for all the motors, apps, loss of feel in e-shifting. I love the cables, like rigging on a sailing ship. No electricity or software needed to ride, which is one of the reasons I ride - to get away from it.
This is a much better way to describe it than I've been saying. Yes, I charge my bike computer and phone, but I don't have to. Forget to charge your electronic shifter and you're relegated to a single speed.
@@RedWingsninetyone I really think the only people who say that are the ones who have never own a bike with electronic shifting. I own two bikes with di2 and I have never!!! And I mean never run out of battery. A single charge lasts forever and when it happens to have low battery my Garmin always indicates the status of the battery. I really don't understand how you can forget to charge.
@@ghroij7757 it happens though. There's just something about not needing to rely on electricity or gas. It's not for me and I just plain don't want to deal with it. It's always "maintenance free" until it isn't. Do you have to adjust cable tension every now and again? Yes. But I can guarantee that barrel adjuster turn once or twice a year takes less time than charging for potentially several hours per year. Are you going to have time to do that? More than likely. The point I'm making is that the maintenance argument I hear all the time is pretty moot.
I use 105 and Ultergra group sets. And I can tell you now I'll be sticking with everything mechanical. It's fair enough to say that Pro racing and if you have money 💰 to go with the next generation of bicycles 🚲 I'm happy using mechanical equipment 😃🚲
It's the first time a large chunk of the mainstream market has backlashed against development. In the past there was always the retrogrouch set that wouldn't move on, or wouldn't start to move on for at least fifteen years. Now it's like every second rider is questioning it. This is a real turning point for the industry.
You are absolutely right that mechanical shifting is a more tactile experience. You are also right when you say that Shimano has reached "peak" mechanical shifting with this groupset (and the hyperglide sprockets). It does not get better than this. Part of the beauty of cycling is in the fact that you don't *need *electric power, or a combustion engine or software, to move at high speed. A human traveling on a bicycle is the most energy efficient means of transportion. Adding batteries, complexity, dependencies to software and high costs to such a beautiful, elegant piece of engineering and ingenuity contradicts that. Yet people seem to embrace it and are happy to jump on the bandwagon. Just like they did when Ferrari started offering "f1" electric shifting as an option to their cars, replacing the iconic gated manual shifter. Now the manual transmission cars from that era bring WAY more money than paddle shifters, not only because they are rarer but mainly because drivers enjoy the tactical, more visceral experience of the man-machine interaction they get with a manual shifter. Luckily you can buy conversion kits to convert your F430 to manual shifting, for a mere $25.000
The analogy to manual gear shifting in automobiles is spot-on for me. I much prefer the tactile shifting of a bike with a mechanical groupset, and I don't want to pay more for a heavier groupset, dependent on batteries, that is harder for me to work on (see also electronic ignition in automobiles - unquestionably superior but requires a specialized computer to diagnose and service).
You're kidding yourself. How many seasons did you never have to adjust your mechanical shifting setup? Answer: zero. In other words, electronic shifting solved the problem of constant, obnoxious maintenance and unsightly, stretchable cables that always need replacing.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist Yes, the mechanical need periodic cable replacement and minor adjustment via the barrel adjusters. However, how often do you need to charge your batteries? Do you need to update your software on your phone? What does it cost to replace worn out batteries? Can your shifting software get hacked?
@@sloprun I've never had to update software on my eTap system although you can if you choose to. It's extremely unlikely to be hacked as it uses a proprietary encrypted protocol. I'm not sure how exciting it would be to hack anyway... what's the reward? Lmao.. he's stuck in the big ring, that'll show him! Batteries for the derailleurs cost about $25 dollars for eTap and I keep a spare in my saddle bag with my tube and CO2. Each front shifter uses a CR2032 which cost about $.50 each, and I kid you not my current set has lasted over 4 years and it's still green. You really should do some research on the technology, it's extremely well engineered. No power is used until the moment you actuate the shifter and it's still way faster than mechanicl; it's a beautiful feat of engineering many clearly don't appreciate. eTap is 100 percent wire free and fully encrypted, blazingly fast, and sips power extremely gently.
One big factor for me sticking with rim brake, mechanical is maintenance. If something goes wrong out on a ride or at home i want to be able to fix the thing myself. Replace the cables, keep things lubed and mechanical should last a lifetime. With electronic i haven't got a hope.
It is certainly more work, but you can repair/maintain hydraulic disc. Shimano has complete tech docs on it, and there's some videos on YT. Its intimidating but really actually doing it isn't nearly as difficult as the reading might make you think. If you can follow a recipe book, you can tear down and rebuild a Shimano hydraulic caliper. I only say this for people that might be otherwise put off. You can actually repair these (mechanical) things. But yeah electronic can gtfo.
Yep I ride year round in all weather, I use components that are easily available, affordable and non-propriety. Garage stocked with spares so I'm never unable to ride.
Problem is, you can’t have carbon rims with rim brakes, it just sucks, so you’re missing quite a lot of development in aero and cycling in general these last years by going that way. I have a 15 yo bike though, so completely understand:)
@@veganpotterthevegan my C-Record downtube shifters (and the rest of my 1st gen C-Record gruppo) would like to have a discussion with you about that comment...
@@unairamos74 Good to know. I'm still using Campy Centaur mechanical 10 speed on one of my bikes, but need to buy a new groupset for a new frame I just got. I've been thinking about either Chorus 12 or Record 12, but don't really have the money for Record. So I'm glad to hear of your positive experience with Chorus 12. I think that's what I'll get.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist yes, under evolved. That's why they were always the first to develop 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed shifters, and made the Ergopower system perfect 30 years ago. Yes, not evolved at all.
Absolutely right, David! I went back from electronic to mechanical shifting because I like the tatctile sensation of mechanical Shimano shifters; i'm practically born with it 😉
I’m still happy with mechanical,105 r7000 offers an excellent balance of affordability and performance,Sram force is also good but there’s nothing more enjoyable than a Campagnolo groupset ,and I mean the era when ultrashift came onto the scene ,it offered everything,carbon ,style ,feel ,comfort,performance,you could dump 5 gears in one go and nothing looked ugly (new centaur I’m looking at you )
One of the best bits of cycling is the complete lack of essential motors or any electrical components. I feel di2 ruins that with the need to charge a bike
All what limits you on the bike is «engine» and handling skill. Shifting plays a minor role, even properly set up Sora would not limit 99% of amateurs.
I'm fond of 'nicer' kit and don't have sora on any of my bikes. BUT I have ridden a few sora bikes and it's truly very, very good. Sora and Tiagra are great options for an inexpensive training bike or wet weather ride.
But cycling isn’t just about what “limits” you. Cycling can also be just enjoying having a cool bike to have fun and geek out on. Physical Performance doesn’t always have to be centrestage.
@@slowcyclist4324 totally agree. I rather tried to express that choice between Sora and di2 is question to your wallet, but mostly not to your performance. Unless you earn money with cycling.
True, us the engine. I have 7s Tourney RD on 9s cassette on 20inch folding bike with 28mm tires, as my beast machine to improve overall fitness. Smooth af. My rb got 11s r8020. Me from Bmx, now just want more simple and focus ride. Handling skill will make you feels confident during ride and more enjoyable.
Last year I took my 16 year old MTB out of storage ( Diamondback response) and after a few minutes of cable tension adjustments and some chain lube, I was riding it down a flight of stairs like I used to….until I popped a spoke 😂 (a liiiitle heavier now) But try taking a di2 bike out of storage 16 years later. The battery will be 100% flat, good luck finding a new battery to get your groupset shifting again.
I have been using Ultegra Di2 11 speed for the last two years and would never go back to mechanical. Other than charging the battery I haven't had to make a single adjustment over this time. It has just worked flawlessly :)
Fwiw.. The first generation of di2 external battery is just a straight forward no nonsense battery pack. I recalled soldering a smaller internal one for it, which was a lipo 2s with balancer (for small model planes back then). Bummer its not straight forward for the later versions.
I think the problem here is the idea that usability after extended storage is some badge of excellence. It’s not. Those are two completely different issues. By your logic, I might as well say that the balance bike I used as a kid is better than your mechanical bike because i won’t even have to bother lubing the chain or replacing a spoke if I take it out of storage now 2 decades later. It will just work without need for ANY work.
I considered "upgrading' my 6 year 105 groupset to Di2 after 20,000 km. I ended up replacing the cables to Jagwire and deep cleaned the shift levers. Shifting is now better than ever.
@@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele I replaced the shift cable once after 2 years. Never replaced the brake cables until just now. However, I did not see any corrosion.
With all due respect to di2 users, I'm sticking with Ultegra mechanical. I can only accept lights, powermeter and gps at most as those aren't really a part of my bike. It just feels weird when I need to charge something on bike for it to do the most basic function, I guess that's what people call as purist for mechanical thing.
It's a slippery slope when motors become a standard part of bicycles, human power only for me. Cars have become too complex with all their proprietary software, electronics, chips and sensors. I cycle because of it's simplicity and efficiency. I keep fit, travel inexpensively and understand how my bikes work and how to do all the maintenance myself.
I have two bikes with Dura Ace Groupsets, one of them R9100 and the shifting is so slick that I have no desire to ever go to electronic, besides the fact that for me the bicycle is pure mechanical. I will be converting back to Campagnolo for my next bike if Shimano don't offer a top of the range mechanical groupset by then.
Recently bought a very nice 2016 BMC RoadMachine SLR01 frameset, a NOS Ultegra 6800 groupset and some hardly used Dura Ace C24 wheels. Will be a spanking setup! Build will be finished this week 🎉
Pads go off too, they go hard. Put new pads on most old bikes and the brakes are back on form. That C50 is running carbon rims too, aluminium rims are way better stoppers.
+1 Just can't get on board with David about rim brakes and wonder if he has used Koolstop's dual surface pads with the built in plow that sheds water and debris. Dreamy braking with no squealing to scare young children.
As an Audax rider I don’t want to be caught 100 miles from civilisation with electronic issues that I can’t fix beside the road. I can jerry rig most issues with mechanical groups but would be totally flummoxed if an electrical failure occurred. Fortunately Campagnolo still make good mechanical groupsets - for now!
David, I certainly share your 'purist' perspective. Not only do I really love mechanical groupsets (although I completely adopted electronic Shimano) I also really love 'classic' frame geometry as illustrated on your Colnago C-50. (I have a Habanero Titanium 'Team Nuevo' that shares a very similar geometry).
Great video David, campagnolo is now the mechanical groupset to go to with super record 12 speed an chorus, it's a shame shimano has dropped this group set it's a fantastic set, I ride ultegra di2 12 speed Rim brake, I'm not a lover of disk brake too much faffing about and gone back to rim brake.The riding I do there's no need for disk, rim brake is more than adequate. Bicycle today are too heavy, to complicated and over priced I just want to "just ride bikes".
I picked up some 9100 Dura Ace shifters,derailleurs, brakes after this vid. I upgraded my 2012/13 Caad10 from 105 from that era. What a great set that 9100 Dura Ace is. Honestly how could Shimano make it any better.
Totally agree. I love hydraulic discs - they’re night and day better - but I don’t want to need to worry about charging and getting my bike indoors to charge. Mechanical Ultegra is good enough for 99.999% of riders - looks good, feels good. The only reason they’re stopping making mechnical groupsets is to raise the ARPU - average selling price per unit. It’s really that simple.
I am sticking with my 105 mech group as the Di2 is just too expensive for the alleged benefits. I agree with you that it is a shame that the mechanical group sets are being phased out. Technology is great but some things should just be left alone or at the very least we are given the option to have one or the other. Just my .02.
Regarding your comments on the rim brakes: As Campagnolo used to say back in the 1970s, when people asked why the Super Record brakes didn't really stop a bike all that well: "We make racing brakes for 'speed control,' not stopping."
As a mechanical fitter I go mechanical components 100% over electronic any time. Mechanical has less issues & simple to fix If any of the bike manufacturers gives the customer the options either mechanical or electronic components it's an individual choice.
Don’t worry, David. If you’re right, and it is so good/preferable, then market demand and competitive forces will keep top class mechanical shifting alive…if not from Shimano, then from Sram or Campag or the Chinese upstarts.
The Shimano Ultegra 6800 (mech) on my 2018 SupersixEvo2 is still totally killing it, sharp like a katana, quiet like a ninja. I have only changed the RD cable once in over 36000kms and went through 3 chains and 2 BBs, that is all. Can't say the same for Sram Rival AXS on my new bike, had the FD substituted (warranty) after 2500km and the chain may pull for another 1000km.
Only one reason a company would make a change like this: part repairs/replacements. Batteries WILL die, motors will break, and electronics will go out. They can't make money off of a mechanical group set that CAN last a person's whole life, but they can make money off an electronic groups that 100% WILL have parts failing sometime. I'm glad the population in many places is declining, but this is what happens when companies have a shrinking market to sell to.
I’m running Shimano Ultegra mechanical with disc brakes and love it. I would always stick with mechanical given the option. I guess I will need to purchase a few spare sets to have on hand in case I ever need parts. Such a shame Shimano has discontinued such a great group set
I've more concern on Di2 than Mechanical. Why, you need update the software to run, parts, battery etc. When the software get old and our phone OS get updated...I'm afraid it will not supported in the future forcing you to change to the latest group set. Just like computer softwares...the bike industry are moving towards that direction.
@@departurexx1520 even the di2 group from 2008 still works perfectly. it can still be connected to a computer and diagnosed. no need to be fearful of electronic stuff.
I've only recently experienced modern electronic groupset riding after only using full mechanical 10 speed for 10 years, and they are both nice. I prefer the braking with disc brakes, but when cables are new and lubed, the mechanical experience is mostly just as nice except for the ease of FD shifting. I like the idea of having a 2011/2012 era bike with full mechanical groupset to have the option of getting the more "old school" experience, but I'd be lying if I said the new electronic shifting didn't bring a new kind of thrill when riding (coupled with the advancements in aero/stiff/comfy balancing that new bike frames have
Spot on assessment, IMHO. Shimano is probably trying to force sale of cheaper mechanical groupsets because they have overstock and/or they make a better margin on those and/or in doing so they relieve work hours at the upperend, shifting more to the lower end manufacturing locations. Obviously, some practical reason, assessment, or projection. Wish I knew. Meanwhile, mechanical for me. All the best.
A few years ago I used a pre generation Ultegra six speed, with a down tube shifter that did index shifting. I was shocked how smooth it was compared to my modern bike.
I totally agree 😊 I’m running 105 mechanical on my older KLEIN AuraX frame and I’m absolutely loving it 😍 crisp shifting and great feeling in the shifters… I would love to fit the bike with an Ultegra group set but the budget says otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
im a small local custom bikeshop in my area...after more than 30 years of riding...im still in love with mechanical groupset and rim brakes for my roadbikes....i dont see what is the benefits in making bicycles more complicated with electronic jargons and such..it robs away the beauty and the simplicity of a bicycle ,as they are already the most efficient form of transport,sports,hobby and leisure equipment as is....."less is More"...i never liked the "souless"feel of the modern bikes today...
In 2018/19 before covid and all I put together an incredible road bike of 'last year's model' type frame, parts, technology etc. and ended up with a Felt Fr1 carbon, rim brake, mechanical road racing bike with DA 9100 full group, Deda carbon bar, stem and seatpost, DT 240 hubs in carbon rims I built. It's ridiculously light, stable, comfortable and the DA group is flawless. The cost was SEVERAL THOUSAND $ less than current stuff. While I'd love to have new Di2, disc, aero etc. stuff, the performance of what I've got cannot be beat.
I didn't watch this video, just saw a thumbnail and the title, I'm sure the video itself has great content. But without even watching, the answer to the title is simply, money. I have shimano mechanical groupsets on two bikes, road and mtb for years and never had a single issue except periodical cable replacements. More, on my mtb I never replaced cables at all, 5 years old bike. The shifting is smooth and crisp. On the other hand, numerous times I saw my friends failing at riding simply due to electronic gourds batteries die out. Anyway, this is sad but I know that my next bike will have electronic group as well, not because I'm forced to buy one, just because I will want one.
I have Ultegra 6800 on one of bikes and it's wonderful. I can only imagine how good 8000 mech or DuraAce is. I really feel there is a divergence happening in the bike world. Just as mountain bike is heading down a path to become electric moto-cross, road cycling is splitting into two camps - on that is focused on tech - e-shifting, power meters, apps, Zwift - and a much smaller camp that appreciates alloys, cables, and rim brakes.
I own a bike with r8000. It shifts like a dream. I keep my bike very clean and use waxx on the chain. It shifts faster and smoother than other peoples bikes with electric shifting with an oiled chain
Shimano GRX on my Cervelo Aspero. Mechanical shifting, 27.2 seatpost, no front end “integration”. Perfect bikes for people who like to ride their bikes, fix their bikes, customize their bikes.
Had the Dura ace group set on a Pinarello frame with Mavic rims . Cinelli seat post, seat and Bars and bar stem ...back in 1987....... with a Pair of original LOOK PP56's .. Loved that Bike ......sold it in the Mid 90's and still regret it to this day ......stopped riding once the family came along ...
I love the 2x11 mechanical Campagnolo Chorus groupset I have on my Litespeed T1. At first, I had a mechanical R7000 Shimano 105 groupset on the Cruzbike V20 you can see in my profile pic, but I bit the bullet and bought SRAM's 2x12 AXS Force groupset and I am not missing the 105 groupset at all. I get about 800km on my SRAM rear derailleur battery before it blinks red (about 5 hours left of charge). If on the odd chance I ever ran the battery out, I could swap the rear and front derailleur battery for another 600-800km of gear shifting on the rear derailleur before needing a recharge, which takes an hour at the most to fully recharge. This means that even if I totally forget to recharge even the 2nd battery on the day of a big ride after it runs out of juice, I could just pop it in the charger for 10-20 minutes and that'll most likely get me through a ride of 100-150km. Another good thing about SRAM's AXS groupset is that I don't ever have to adjust a derailleur cable again. Simply use the microshift buttons for perfect shifting EVERY TIME. Not that weight is high on my priority list, but with Campagnolo's Super Record TT brake levers, I installed SRAM's Wireless blips (5-7 years of battery life) on my bike and removed the heavy road shifters saving quite a bit of weight. Nah, I can't say I am sad to see the end of mechanical groupsets.
I truly hate all this new wave (marketing BS really) of electronic and disc brakes, manufacturer's are making a huge mistake by discontinuing mechanical groupsets which is the very essence of bicycles. Sad really.
Short of riding my fixie, my all mechanical road bike is simple, tried and true. Especially when I leave the computer, mobile, and watch at home. + What's up with thru axels? QRs have never failed me
When i changed by bike, i was coming from a 21 years old bike that i kept upgrading over the years. it had a very similar mechanical shimano groupset, but sadly i didnt have any sparepart left. i wanted to get a new bike with the same genre of groupset, but sadly, it was a thing of the past. One thing i especially miss from this groupset is the SILENCE. man, these were incredibly quiet.
I think there are financial reasons AND professional competitive reasons why Shimano is killing off mechanical shifting. 1. Financially, these groupsets are so good that they last for a long time and most people who ride non professionally won't have a need to upgrade. Shimano want to grow and so doing electric shifting is an easy "upgrade" to sell to the consumer. They are looking for ways to keep their huge consumer base buying more products. 2. I think more importantly this rise of electric is due to what the pros want. Aero bikes with integrated cabling absolutely suck maintenence wise and crucially, are harder to engineer and quality control. So electronic solves those problems. No cables! It also serves the pros with its auto trim feature which I'm sure increases efficiency marginally so they don't have to think as much as they drag themselves over the Pyrenees. These are all great advancements, but only ones that serve the upper echelons of the cycling world. Anybody else who rides bikes for non competing reasons has way more limited use for these things. For people who commute, ride with friends over the weekend, or tour; I see much more limited return on the huge investment that is required for electronic. Once again Bike Industry is focusing on cycling as sport and selling us all the racing products but for what benefit?
Who would have thought 6 years ago we'd be saying "Thank goodness for Campy!" But if you want a quality mechanical rim upgrade, Campy Super Record is the last group-set standing. May we PLEASE get a Campy Super Record mechanical rim review please? Thanks!
Electronic shifting isn't automatic.. poor analogy. It's more like some high end sports car manufacturers started using fuel injectors instead of a carb and 30 years later carbs are dead in even the most pedestrian automobile.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist that's an even worse analogy. Electronic shifting is more akin to tiptronic type shifting in performance vehicles, where you manually select the gear and the electrickery takes care of the gear change. Whereas a full manual, typically uses mechanical linkages. They introduced a ton of expensive electronic and hydraulic issues for end users when things go tits up. Nothing more simple and pure on a bicycle than a lever, cable that needs next to no servicing for 1000s of miles.
@@mudbuddies1068 lol how about the simplicity of no adjustments, no cables to stretch, no cables to see or try to hide, and 100 percent reliable shifting with no lag or grinding ever. Luddites will always wax poetic about the telegraph ;)
I am old school, and I will not us electronic as long as I can avoid it. I also LOVE rim brakes. I know disk brakes are superior, but I just cant seem to get away from the beautiful rim brakes. Anyone remember the Campy Monoplaner brakes? Those were a thing of beauty!
If bikes were cheap, I would welcome electric shifting. But at $8-12k, leave me the option to go mechanical so i can find non-electrical parts and work on it for the next 10-15 years.
In racing you want every bit of advantage you can get. For the open road I say mechanical group set is the way to go. I don't want to fiddle with batteries when riding for fun.
I love my 9120 groupset mechanical shifting with hydraulic disc brakes. Wish they still made this or at least a Ultegra option like this. I have a bike with 9270 and another with 8000 as well and the 9120 is my favorite.
I bought a LOOK 795 BLADE RS with Shimano mechanical groupset and rim brakes. I was well aware that it was a ''last of the dinosaurs" purchase! I don't want batteries, I don't want to charge up my bike!
I have a bike w dura-ace 9100 and one with ultegra 8000 and they are both silky smooth and extremely reliable. I run them both with rim brakes. I love them, and am saddened by their decision to force electronic and disc brakes. And the maintenance is simple, I can do it all in my basement with minimal tools/expertise. One less thing to charge, one less battery to lose, no disc rub, no brake bleeding, just pure riding joy.
I have Dura-Ace 9100 on my SuperSix and Dura-Ace 7400 on my Tommasini Super Prestige, but I have to give Shimano's 7800 the "best" moniker. Nothing since has been as smooth, as reliable or as beautiful as Dura-Ace 7800. But romance subtracting from the equation, I'd have to give it to 9100.
You’re absolutely correct about Shimano being crazy getting rid of the Dura-Ace mech. line. It hurts my heart to see! As a mechanic, I absolutely despise electronics on bikes!!
I agree. They need to bring back mechanical shifting. Latest and greatest doesn't always mean better. A finely tuned groupset is probably just as good as an electronic groupset.
Most people agree 9100 was the pinnacle of mechanical which leaves Shimano with nowhere to go for improvement but [very expensive] weight reduction. They're taking the entirely cynical route, as is the rest of the industry until consumers push back
I jumped on a bike last August cause I knew it would probably be the last mechanical shifting bike I would buy. It’s so easy and reliable and it’s one less thing to have to charge
If Shimano really does stop making mechanical, I will be on team SRAM or Campy faster than a bat out of hell. For touring and bikepacking, mechanical will always be king.
Hmmmm whilst the Shadow mechs give a great range and less chance of catching the rear mech in a fall, their swiftest slickest group had to be R9000! Ultra quick and almost silent shifts! Match it with fully sealed ultra slick low friction Cables and it had no competition for shifting
I'm still on R9000 and absolutely love it. If I find a 9100 Mech group at a good price though, I'll definitely make the upgrade. The weekend I spent using this on a test bike blew me away. The industry just seems determined to do everything the consumer does not want, virtually forcing us all into electronic/disc groupsets... A complete shambles, and I wish they'd get back the option of Mechanical and Rim brake offerings.
@Charles Man and therein lies the issue. Bike consumers are painted into a corner...don't like discs or electronic shifting? Have you considered taking up running, maybe...?? If there was the choice, as there was a few years ago... disc/rim, di2/mech, the consumer would have some clout, but take away the options and there is no option.
I don’t want Di2. I’ve had zero issues and as I have to buy a long cage on new bikes, it’s an extra expense I don’t need. Looks like I’m self building and splitting my current bike.
Beautiful c50! I love mine, I have one of the last white frame models that I just bought from a friend of mine. All campy record parts and dt Swiss hubs. After riding it you’ll ask why anyone would want an electric shifting bike. It’s amazing and a bike I will cherish forever.
I've been using Dura Ace mechanical since 7800 groupset since 2004. I also use Di2, which I've used since 2011 when it was in its first generation. My opinion is aligned with yours. However, with the right cables, mechanical can actually shift faster than Di2. I love both and couldn't fault either.
rim brakes are 1) much less hassle 2) cheaper and 3) lighter....they work fine. I NEVER want disc brakes. Manufacturers need stop their push for disc brakes, surveys show that at least half of riders want rim brakes.
Is it possible that mechanical groupsets are more expensive to produce than electrical? Maybe thats the reason why Shimano is moving in this direction. If the rumored 12sp 105 Mechanical (R7100/R7120) really comes, I hope it will be as good as the R9100 in shifting quality.
As I can understand Shimano for dropping mechanical shifting in their Dura Ace line, maybe UItegra too, but no mechanical 105 is wrong decision in my opinion. Pro mechanics may use the convenience of wireless shifting in team bikes but the faff of batteries and price barrier will put off a keen amateur. SRAM doesn't make 12 speed mechanical road groupset as well. It's weird and probably other vendors will step in and happily take that part of the market, which is sad. I've heard that perhaps it is difficult to make 12 speed mechanical groupset but I don't think so. Both Shimano and SRAM are happy making 12 speed MTB groupsets which work excellent even in mud and dust.
When rebuilding my old MTB to a full Shimano XTR, I stuck to my mechanical shifters because they functions, also without being able to charge my battery.
The old Dura Ace 9150 Di2 is absolutely amazing, but the weight and cost of the latest 12 speed Dura-Ace Di2 puts it out of the reach of most cyclists - completely; I actually don't want a Di2 groupset for my endurance set up - prefer mechanical - tough luck Shimano; I will be buying a mechanical group set elsewhere. There is a trend in the bike industry to go in a certain direction regardless of consumer trends & habits - this trend is mostly for more expensive and less user friendly products such as Di2 or hydraulic disc brakes - neither cheap nor user friendly thus actually not going to be press ganged into buying such 🚫💿🚫💿⛔💿⛔ Cyclists generally don't want to carry a battery bank around in-case the group set battery goes flat.
I am NOT a pro racer. I ride for pleaser and do a lot of long distance touring. Why the hell would I want to deal with batteries on a 1500 mile bikepacking trip? If they are going to do this they need to make separate racing (electronic shifting) and touring (mechanical shifting) lineups.
Agree, never wished I had a better shifting bike than my current 9100 group set. If I was a mountain goat daily rider, I'd op for disc brakes. Otherwise, rim brakes have never failed me. No bike shop needed for servicing either with this group set.
Campy mechanical was better in 2017 and is better today. I understand you are riding that nice Dura-Ace group right now. But don’t forget about Campy. It is just so insanely good. And has been for 70+ years.
I have a 2011. Madone, Shimano 105 groupset all mechanical. Bought new wheels and changed the cables. I have no intent on going electric any time soon.
Recently purchased a mountain bike with hydraulic disc brakes and I’m absolutely blown away with it. The braking is much quicker and if I don’t have both hands available I can easily stop the bike with either brake. What an exceptional improvement. As far as electrical shifting ? I don’t see the reasoning behind it other than raising the price of the bicycle and parts. What sort of improvement could it make other than no cables to worry about breaking ?
I agree, I own 4 bikes ( BMC TT Di2 rim / Aeroad Mech rim / SL6 Mech disc / SL7 Di2 disc) and I can live without Di2, it makes more sense to me for TT. I never had issue yet with Di2, but some mates had battery dying during race or costly replacement when crashing. My only complain when using Mech groupset with disc, lever are a little bigger compared to Di2 Disc Other than that, Mech should still be available! ( just like car all getting Automatic :( )
I never used a DI 2 in any Shimano groupset but I can tell you that I love my Dura Ace mechanical group set. It's quick and requires only minimal effort to shift gears.
I have an SWorks SL6 wioth full 9100 mechanical and rim brakes. Beautiful group to finish a bike with and you can't ask for a more reliable and functional setup. But I agree with you about the 9000 crank and brakeset. My Lynskey Ti has 9100 derailleurs and shifters but a 9000 crank and brakeset. It looks fantastic with the gloss of unpainted, brushed ti. Beautiful!!!
Fully agree. By all means go full hydraulic disk brake if needed, but keep mechanical in the 12 speed format across the brand. Massive mistake especially in the mid-range. Hopefully 12sp R7100 will be released as roumoured. Hopefully an Ultegra R8100 mechanical as well. If they don't then I'll stick to 11spd R7000 and pair it with a set of Juin Tech GT-P4 if I go disc brakes.
12 speed mechanical is non-beneficial. The extra speed is non beneficial, there is one video clearly explain the extra cog size and why it is insignificant. Better you stick with Ultegra 11s mechanical with 8010 crank. Lite than 12s electronic. Don't waste your money. The major changes in 12s electronic gs is the crankset design. They design the 12s crankset more symmetrical so it can read power meter sensor accurately and improve the crankset strength. The 12s is just for gimmick so the customer will feels shimano done a lot of change. The extra speed is non-benificial. MTB need 12s because they have bigger cog size at 1st & 2nd cog, so the chain can jump smoothly. For roadbike, the ratio is between cog is very small. Add extra one cog at the middle of the cassette will not change anything. When competitor release 12s, they will follow, otherwise they will missing out. So we as consumer need to be wise.
@@apair4002 Nothing to do with 11sp vs 12spd and a 16 cog. It's about bringing it in line with the rest of the groupset, so 12spd. Shimano imo will eventually phase out R7000 as they are with R8000. They need to bring out R7100 mechanical, 12spd to keep a market share in that segmnent.
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
I agree 100%. I don't care for all the motors, apps, loss of feel in e-shifting. I love the cables, like rigging on a sailing ship. No electricity or software needed to ride, which is one of the reasons I ride - to get away from it.
Absolutely man.
Nice comment. Well said.
This is a much better way to describe it than I've been saying. Yes, I charge my bike computer and phone, but I don't have to. Forget to charge your electronic shifter and you're relegated to a single speed.
@@RedWingsninetyone I really think the only people who say that are the ones who have never own a bike with electronic shifting. I own two bikes with di2 and I have never!!! And I mean never run out of battery. A single charge lasts forever and when it happens to have low battery my Garmin always indicates the status of the battery. I really don't understand how you can forget to charge.
@@ghroij7757 it happens though. There's just something about not needing to rely on electricity or gas. It's not for me and I just plain don't want to deal with it. It's always "maintenance free" until it isn't. Do you have to adjust cable tension every now and again? Yes. But I can guarantee that barrel adjuster turn once or twice a year takes less time than charging for potentially several hours per year. Are you going to have time to do that? More than likely. The point I'm making is that the maintenance argument I hear all the time is pretty moot.
I use 105 and Ultergra group sets. And I can tell you now I'll be sticking with everything mechanical. It's fair enough to say that Pro racing and if you have money 💰 to go with the next generation of bicycles 🚲 I'm happy using mechanical equipment 😃🚲
After learning how to index properly (good enough) I have no interest in going electronic!
Agree Barry well said.
Same here.
I use electronic shifting. But next bike I'll go back to mechanical, even if I need to get a Chinese brand.
Same hwre
It's the first time a large chunk of the mainstream market has backlashed against development. In the past there was always the retrogrouch set that wouldn't move on, or wouldn't start to move on for at least fifteen years. Now it's like every second rider is questioning it. This is a real turning point for the industry.
You are absolutely right that mechanical shifting is a more tactile experience. You are also right when you say that Shimano has reached "peak" mechanical shifting with this groupset (and the hyperglide sprockets). It does not get better than this. Part of the beauty of cycling is in the fact that you don't *need *electric power, or a combustion engine or software, to move at high speed. A human traveling on a bicycle is the most energy efficient means of transportion. Adding batteries, complexity, dependencies to software and high costs to such a beautiful, elegant piece of engineering and ingenuity contradicts that. Yet people seem to embrace it and are happy to jump on the bandwagon.
Just like they did when Ferrari started offering "f1" electric shifting as an option to their cars, replacing the iconic gated manual shifter. Now the manual transmission cars from that era bring WAY more money than paddle shifters, not only because they are rarer but mainly because drivers enjoy the tactical, more visceral experience of the man-machine interaction they get with a manual shifter. Luckily you can buy conversion kits to convert your F430 to manual shifting, for a mere $25.000
I think that tactile feel mantra is a bullshit.
Di2 with rim brakes is win combo
The analogy to manual gear shifting in automobiles is spot-on for me. I much prefer the tactile shifting of a bike with a mechanical groupset, and I don't want to pay more for a heavier groupset, dependent on batteries, that is harder for me to work on (see also electronic ignition in automobiles - unquestionably superior but requires a specialized computer to diagnose and service).
Di2 is lighter then mechanical and has one battery
@@mikicastan Only Dura Ace Di2 is lighter. 105 and Ultegra are both heavier. And they still uses wires...
At least be correct. Ebike is WAY more efficient than a normal bike... like WAY
Electronic shifting is a solution in pursuit of a problem. Thank you for explaining it at length, David, even if you did repeat yourself. 😊
Well put Mark.
You're kidding yourself. How many seasons did you never have to adjust your mechanical shifting setup? Answer: zero. In other words, electronic shifting solved the problem of constant, obnoxious maintenance and unsightly, stretchable cables that always need replacing.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist Yes, the mechanical need periodic cable replacement and minor adjustment via the barrel adjusters. However, how often do you need to charge your batteries? Do you need to update your software on your phone? What does it cost to replace worn out batteries? Can your shifting software get hacked?
@@sloprun I've never had to update software on my eTap system although you can if you choose to. It's extremely unlikely to be hacked as it uses a proprietary encrypted protocol. I'm not sure how exciting it would be to hack anyway... what's the reward? Lmao.. he's stuck in the big ring, that'll show him! Batteries for the derailleurs cost about $25 dollars for eTap and I keep a spare in my saddle bag with my tube and CO2. Each front shifter uses a CR2032 which cost about $.50 each, and I kid you not my current set has lasted over 4 years and it's still green. You really should do some research on the technology, it's extremely well engineered. No power is used until the moment you actuate the shifter and it's still way faster than mechanicl; it's a beautiful feat of engineering many clearly don't appreciate. eTap is 100 percent wire free and fully encrypted, blazingly fast, and sips power extremely gently.
@@sloprun I agree with you but to be fair what would be the benefit to someone of hacking your shifting software?
One big factor for me sticking with rim brake, mechanical is maintenance. If something goes wrong out on a ride or at home i want to be able to fix the thing myself. Replace the cables, keep things lubed and mechanical should last a lifetime. With electronic i haven't got a hope.
It is certainly more work, but you can repair/maintain hydraulic disc. Shimano has complete tech docs on it, and there's some videos on YT. Its intimidating but really actually doing it isn't nearly as difficult as the reading might make you think. If you can follow a recipe book, you can tear down and rebuild a Shimano hydraulic caliper. I only say this for people that might be otherwise put off. You can actually repair these (mechanical) things. But yeah electronic can gtfo.
I really like my mechanical disk brakes on my bike. Benefits of disk without the headache of hydrologic
Yep I ride year round in all weather, I use components that are easily available, affordable and non-propriety. Garage stocked with spares so I'm never unable to ride.
Problem is, you can’t have carbon rims with rim brakes, it just sucks, so you’re missing quite a lot of development in aero and cycling in general these last years by going that way. I have a 15 yo bike though, so completely understand:)
@@veganpotterthevegan my C-Record downtube shifters (and the rest of my 1st gen C-Record gruppo) would like to have a discussion with you about that comment...
Kudos to Campagnolo for keeping it real with mechanical groupsets!
I've been using Chorus 12s for over a year and it's like magic. Totally flawless.
@@unairamos74 Good to know. I'm still using Campy Centaur mechanical 10 speed on one of my bikes, but need to buy a new groupset for a new frame I just got. I've been thinking about either Chorus 12 or Record 12, but don't really have the money for Record. So I'm glad to hear of your positive experience with Chorus 12. I think that's what I'll get.
Imo Campy has always been overpriced and under evolved.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist I agree that Campagnolo is expensive, yet, how are their products under-developed?
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist yes, under evolved. That's why they were always the first to develop 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed shifters, and made the Ergopower system perfect 30 years ago. Yes, not evolved at all.
Absolutely right, David! I went back from electronic to mechanical shifting because I like the tatctile sensation of mechanical Shimano shifters; i'm practically born with it 😉
I’m still happy with mechanical,105 r7000 offers an excellent balance of affordability and performance,Sram force is also good but there’s nothing more enjoyable than a Campagnolo groupset ,and I mean the era when ultrashift came onto the scene ,it offered everything,carbon ,style ,feel ,comfort,performance,you could dump 5 gears in one go and nothing looked ugly (new centaur I’m looking at you )
I still hold out a hope for a mechanical 105 12 speed this year, Shimano are you listening?????
@@johndinsdale1707 No,no,no. 12 speed is just silly
@@veganpotterthevegan micro shift is junk. Very poorly manufactured and engineered.
@@davemoss6976 I guess you don't like the 13 speed capo ekcar gravel groupset?
@@johndinsdale1707 fortunately I won't ever have to get close to it.😉
One of the best bits of cycling is the complete lack of essential motors or any electrical components. I feel di2 ruins that with the need to charge a bike
All what limits you on the bike is «engine» and handling skill. Shifting plays a minor role, even properly set up Sora would not limit 99% of amateurs.
I'm fond of 'nicer' kit and don't have sora on any of my bikes. BUT I have ridden a few sora bikes and it's truly very, very good. Sora and Tiagra are great options for an inexpensive training bike or wet weather ride.
I have Tiagra on my commuter/trainer bike. It just works and works well.
But cycling isn’t just about what “limits” you.
Cycling can also be just enjoying having a cool bike to have fun and geek out on. Physical Performance doesn’t always have to be centrestage.
@@slowcyclist4324 totally agree. I rather tried to express that choice between Sora and di2 is question to your wallet, but mostly not to your performance. Unless you earn money with cycling.
True, us the engine. I have 7s Tourney RD on 9s cassette on 20inch folding bike with 28mm tires, as my beast machine to improve overall fitness. Smooth af.
My rb got 11s r8020. Me from Bmx, now just want more simple and focus ride. Handling skill will make you feels confident during ride and more enjoyable.
Last year I took my 16 year old MTB out of storage ( Diamondback response) and after a few minutes of cable tension adjustments and some chain lube, I was riding it down a flight of stairs like I used to….until I popped a spoke 😂 (a liiiitle heavier now)
But try taking a di2 bike out of storage 16 years later. The battery will be 100% flat, good luck finding a new battery to get your groupset shifting again.
I have been using Ultegra Di2 11 speed for the last two years and would never go back to mechanical. Other than charging the battery I haven't had to make a single adjustment over this time. It has just worked flawlessly :)
Totally true mate
@@stevecox3733 just wait.
Fwiw.. The first generation of di2 external battery is just a straight forward no nonsense battery pack. I recalled soldering a smaller internal one for it, which was a lipo 2s with balancer (for small model planes back then). Bummer its not straight forward for the later versions.
I think the problem here is the idea that usability after extended storage is some badge of excellence.
It’s not. Those are two completely different issues.
By your logic, I might as well say that the balance bike I used as a kid is better than your mechanical bike because i won’t even have to bother lubing the chain or replacing a spoke if I take it out of storage now 2 decades later. It will just work without need for ANY work.
I went out and bought one of the last Dura-Ace 9100 groupsets in December 2021. It now hangs on my Reilly T325 with nice Deda Carbon SL wheels.
I considered "upgrading' my 6 year 105 groupset to Di2 after 20,000 km. I ended up replacing the cables to Jagwire and deep cleaned the shift levers. Shifting is now better than ever.
Yep, replacing the cables is the best "upgrade" to a mechanical groupset.
You haven't replaced cables in 6 years? Ok that you rode few kilometers, but in 6 years corrosion had certainly ruined calbles and housings!
@@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele I replaced the shift cable once after 2 years. Never replaced the brake cables until just now. However, I did not see any corrosion.
@@hansschotterradler3772 two years is a great frequency of replacement. You can't see corrosion of you replace cables every two years!
@@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele The brake cables were 6 years old and had no significant corrosion
With all due respect to di2 users, I'm sticking with Ultegra mechanical. I can only accept lights, powermeter and gps at most as those aren't really a part of my bike. It just feels weird when I need to charge something on bike for it to do the most basic function, I guess that's what people call as purist for mechanical thing.
Same here ✌🏻 your comment/ attitude is 100% spot on in my opinion. That's the essence of cycling!
It's a slippery slope when motors become a standard part of bicycles, human power only for me. Cars have become too complex with all their proprietary software, electronics, chips and sensors. I cycle because of it's simplicity and efficiency. I keep fit, travel inexpensively and understand how my bikes work and how to do all the maintenance myself.
I have two bikes with Dura Ace Groupsets, one of them R9100 and the shifting is so slick that I have no desire to ever go to electronic, besides the fact that for me the bicycle is pure mechanical. I will be converting back to Campagnolo for my next bike if Shimano don't offer a top of the range mechanical groupset by then.
The benefit of the Dura Ace mechanical is that it is a lot cheaper, but maybe not after this video.
Recently bought a very nice 2016 BMC RoadMachine SLR01 frameset, a NOS Ultegra 6800 groupset and some hardly used Dura Ace C24 wheels. Will be a spanking setup! Build will be finished this week 🎉
The trick with rim brakes is to swap out the Shimano stock pads for better ones (SwissStop, Koolstop). It makes a surprisingly big difference.
Pads go off too, they go hard. Put new pads on most old bikes and the brakes are back on form. That C50 is running carbon rims too, aluminium rims are way better stoppers.
+1
+1 Just can't get on board with David about rim brakes and wonder if he has used Koolstop's dual surface pads with the built in plow that sheds water and debris. Dreamy braking with no squealing to scare young children.
Carbon rims and rim brakes do not mix, you’ll smell the curvature and gradient in group rides😂
As an Audax rider I don’t want to be caught 100 miles from civilisation with electronic issues that I can’t fix beside the road. I can jerry rig most issues with mechanical groups but would be totally flummoxed if an electrical failure occurred. Fortunately Campagnolo still make good mechanical groupsets - for now!
David, I certainly share your 'purist' perspective. Not only do I really love mechanical groupsets (although I completely adopted electronic Shimano) I also really love 'classic' frame geometry as illustrated on your Colnago C-50. (I have a Habanero Titanium 'Team Nuevo' that shares a very similar geometry).
Great video David, campagnolo is now the mechanical groupset to go to with super record 12 speed an chorus, it's a shame shimano has dropped this group set it's a fantastic set, I ride ultegra di2 12 speed Rim brake, I'm not a lover of disk brake too much faffing about and gone back to rim brake.The riding I do there's no need for disk, rim brake is more than adequate.
Bicycle today are too heavy, to complicated and over priced I just want to "just ride bikes".
I have upgraded my TCR adv Pro to R8100 rim brake. It’s very very good!!
I picked up some 9100 Dura Ace shifters,derailleurs, brakes after this vid. I upgraded my 2012/13 Caad10 from 105 from that era. What a great set that 9100 Dura Ace is. Honestly how could Shimano make it any better.
If anything, I'd swap the rear derailleur's barrel adjuster.
Totally agree. I love hydraulic discs - they’re night and day better - but I don’t want to need to worry about charging and getting my bike indoors to charge. Mechanical Ultegra is good enough for 99.999% of riders - looks good, feels good. The only reason they’re stopping making mechnical groupsets is to raise the ARPU - average selling price per unit. It’s really that simple.
I have tarted up an aluminium frame two years ago with Dura Ace mechanical rim brake 11-30 & 50/34. Rides like a dream.
I am sticking with my 105 mech group as the Di2 is just too expensive for the alleged benefits. I agree with you that it is a shame that the mechanical group sets are being phased out. Technology is great but some things should just be left alone or at the very least we are given the option to have one or the other. Just my .02.
Regarding your comments on the rim brakes: As Campagnolo used to say back in the 1970s, when people asked why the Super Record brakes didn't really stop a bike all that well: "We make racing brakes for 'speed control,' not stopping."
So I guess they’re ok as long as you’re never ever sharing the road with cars :D
didn't Campagnolo riders opt for the red SCOTT MATHAUSAR brake pads when riders wanted the stopping power of Dura Ace calipers???
As a mechanical fitter I go mechanical components 100% over electronic any time.
Mechanical has less issues & simple to fix If any of the bike manufacturers gives the customer the options either mechanical or electronic components it's an individual choice.
Don’t worry, David. If you’re right, and it is so good/preferable, then market demand and competitive forces will keep top class mechanical shifting alive…if not from Shimano, then from Sram or Campag or the Chinese upstarts.
The Shimano Ultegra 6800 (mech) on my 2018 SupersixEvo2 is still totally killing it, sharp like a katana, quiet like a ninja. I have only changed the RD cable once in over 36000kms and went through 3 chains and 2 BBs, that is all. Can't say the same for Sram Rival AXS on my new bike, had the FD substituted (warranty) after 2500km and the chain may pull for another 1000km.
Only one reason a company would make a change like this: part repairs/replacements. Batteries WILL die, motors will break, and electronics will go out. They can't make money off of a mechanical group set that CAN last a person's whole life, but they can make money off an electronic groups that 100% WILL have parts failing sometime.
I'm glad the population in many places is declining, but this is what happens when companies have a shrinking market to sell to.
I’m running Shimano Ultegra mechanical with disc brakes and love it. I would always stick with mechanical given the option. I guess I will need to purchase a few spare sets to have on hand in case I ever need parts. Such a shame Shimano has discontinued such a great group set
I've more concern on Di2 than Mechanical. Why, you need update the software to run, parts, battery etc. When the software get old and our phone OS get updated...I'm afraid it will not supported in the future forcing you to change to the latest group set. Just like computer softwares...the bike industry are moving towards that direction.
@@departurexx1520 even the di2 group from 2008 still works perfectly. it can still be connected to a computer and diagnosed. no need to be fearful of electronic stuff.
I've only recently experienced modern electronic groupset riding after only using full mechanical 10 speed for 10 years, and they are both nice. I prefer the braking with disc brakes, but when cables are new and lubed, the mechanical experience is mostly just as nice except for the ease of FD shifting. I like the idea of having a 2011/2012 era bike with full mechanical groupset to have the option of getting the more "old school" experience, but I'd be lying if I said the new electronic shifting didn't bring a new kind of thrill when riding (coupled with the advancements in aero/stiff/comfy balancing that new bike frames have
Spot on assessment, IMHO. Shimano is probably trying to force sale of cheaper mechanical groupsets because they have overstock and/or they make a better margin on those and/or in doing so they relieve work hours at the upperend, shifting more to the lower end manufacturing locations. Obviously, some practical reason, assessment, or projection. Wish I knew. Meanwhile, mechanical for me. All the best.
A few years ago I used a pre generation Ultegra six speed, with a down tube shifter that did index shifting. I was shocked how smooth it was compared to my modern bike.
Campagnolo's answer to their Index setup sucked. Oh well my C-record DT levers still does friction
I totally agree 😊 I’m running 105 mechanical on my older KLEIN AuraX frame and I’m absolutely loving it 😍 crisp shifting and great feeling in the shifters… I would love to fit the bike with an Ultegra group set but the budget says otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
im a small local custom bikeshop in my area...after more than 30 years of riding...im still in love with mechanical groupset and rim brakes for my roadbikes....i dont see what is the benefits in making bicycles more complicated with electronic jargons and such..it robs away the beauty and the simplicity of a bicycle ,as they are already the most efficient form of transport,sports,hobby and leisure equipment as is....."less is More"...i never liked the "souless"feel of the modern bikes today...
If you want to build the lightest bike possible then a mechanical group set with rim brakes is still the way to go.
It's a shame so many people don't get this!
In 2018/19 before covid and all I put together an incredible road bike of 'last year's model' type frame, parts, technology etc. and ended up with a Felt Fr1 carbon, rim brake, mechanical road racing bike with DA 9100 full group, Deda carbon bar, stem and seatpost, DT 240 hubs in carbon rims I built. It's ridiculously light, stable, comfortable and the DA group is flawless. The cost was SEVERAL THOUSAND $ less than current stuff. While I'd love to have new Di2, disc, aero etc. stuff, the performance of what I've got cannot be beat.
I didn't watch this video, just saw a thumbnail and the title, I'm sure the video itself has great content. But without even watching, the answer to the title is simply, money.
I have shimano mechanical groupsets on two bikes, road and mtb for years and never had a single issue except periodical cable replacements.
More, on my mtb I never replaced cables at all, 5 years old bike. The shifting is smooth and crisp.
On the other hand, numerous times I saw my friends failing at riding simply due to electronic gourds batteries die out.
Anyway, this is sad but I know that my next bike will have electronic group as well, not because I'm forced to buy one, just because I will want one.
I have Ultegra 6800 on one of bikes and it's wonderful. I can only imagine how good 8000 mech or DuraAce is.
I really feel there is a divergence happening in the bike world. Just as mountain bike is heading down a path to become electric moto-cross, road cycling is splitting into two camps - on that is focused on tech - e-shifting, power meters, apps, Zwift - and a much smaller camp that appreciates alloys, cables, and rim brakes.
That is what the marketing is making you believe. At my bike cafe the most i see is groups riding 105 and ultegra mechanical.
I own a bike with r8000. It shifts like a dream. I keep my bike very clean and use waxx on the chain. It shifts faster and smoother than other peoples bikes with electric shifting with an oiled chain
@@anderskjrsgaard259 The Ultegra R8000 shifts very smoothly. I think it is an improvement over the Dura Ace 9000.
Ultegra 6800 is awesome. I have newer but the 6800 was/is better.
Shimano GRX on my Cervelo Aspero. Mechanical shifting, 27.2 seatpost, no front end “integration”. Perfect bikes for people who like to ride their bikes, fix their bikes, customize their bikes.
Just installed a Sensah mechanical 12s groupset. Works great. Much nicer than the 9s sora I had before.
And this is why Shimano is going away from mechanical! They can't compete on price.. or rather, don't want to.
Had the Dura ace group set on a Pinarello frame with Mavic rims . Cinelli seat post, seat and Bars and bar stem ...back in 1987....... with a Pair of original LOOK PP56's ..
Loved that Bike ......sold it in the Mid 90's and still regret it to this day ......stopped riding once the family came along ...
I love the 2x11 mechanical Campagnolo Chorus groupset I have on my Litespeed T1. At first, I had a mechanical R7000 Shimano 105 groupset on the Cruzbike V20 you can see in my profile pic, but I bit the bullet and bought SRAM's 2x12 AXS Force groupset and I am not missing the 105 groupset at all. I get about 800km on my SRAM rear derailleur battery before it blinks red (about 5 hours left of charge). If on the odd chance I ever ran the battery out, I could swap the rear and front derailleur battery for another 600-800km of gear shifting on the rear derailleur before needing a recharge, which takes an hour at the most to fully recharge. This means that even if I totally forget to recharge even the 2nd battery on the day of a big ride after it runs out of juice, I could just pop it in the charger for 10-20 minutes and that'll most likely get me through a ride of 100-150km.
Another good thing about SRAM's AXS groupset is that I don't ever have to adjust a derailleur cable again. Simply use the microshift buttons for perfect shifting EVERY TIME. Not that weight is high on my priority list, but with Campagnolo's Super Record TT brake levers, I installed SRAM's Wireless blips (5-7 years of battery life) on my bike and removed the heavy road shifters saving quite a bit of weight.
Nah, I can't say I am sad to see the end of mechanical groupsets.
I truly hate all this new wave (marketing BS really) of electronic and disc brakes, manufacturer's are making a huge mistake by discontinuing mechanical groupsets which is the very essence of bicycles. Sad really.
Mechanical gears and rim brakes for the win in 23..
Go back 40 years and no doubt some car reviewers were saying the same thing about carburetors and drum brakes. Evolution of technology my friend.
Short of riding my fixie, my all mechanical road bike is simple, tried and true.
Especially when I leave the computer, mobile, and watch at home.
+ What's up with thru axels? QRs have never failed me
When i changed by bike, i was coming from a 21 years old bike that i kept upgrading over the years. it had a very similar mechanical shimano groupset, but sadly i didnt have any sparepart left. i wanted to get a new bike with the same genre of groupset, but sadly, it was a thing of the past.
One thing i especially miss from this groupset is the SILENCE. man, these were incredibly quiet.
I think there are financial reasons AND professional competitive reasons why Shimano is killing off mechanical shifting.
1. Financially, these groupsets are so good that they last for a long time and most people who ride non professionally won't have a need to upgrade. Shimano want to grow and so doing electric shifting is an easy "upgrade" to sell to the consumer. They are looking for ways to keep their huge consumer base buying more products.
2. I think more importantly this rise of electric is due to what the pros want. Aero bikes with integrated cabling absolutely suck maintenence wise and crucially, are harder to engineer and quality control. So electronic solves those problems. No cables!
It also serves the pros with its auto trim feature which I'm sure increases efficiency marginally so they don't have to think as much as they drag themselves over the Pyrenees.
These are all great advancements, but only ones that serve the upper echelons of the cycling world. Anybody else who rides bikes for non competing reasons has way more limited use for these things.
For people who commute, ride with friends over the weekend, or tour; I see much more limited return on the huge investment that is required for electronic.
Once again Bike Industry is focusing on cycling as sport and selling us all the racing products but for what benefit?
But great video as always my guy! Thanks for the content!
try high end road rim brakes with a aluminum rim, much better than carbon
Who would have thought 6 years ago we'd be saying "Thank goodness for Campy!" But if you want a quality mechanical rim upgrade, Campy Super Record is the last group-set standing. May we PLEASE get a Campy Super Record mechanical rim review please? Thanks!
mechanical + rim brakes = the best combination
Forget about rim brakes. They are history. Disc brakes are better anyway.
Some high end sports car manufacturers tried going full automatic transmission. Customers complained and manual transmission returned. Imagine that
Electronic shifting isn't automatic.. poor analogy. It's more like some high end sports car manufacturers started using fuel injectors instead of a carb and 30 years later carbs are dead in even the most pedestrian automobile.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist that's an even worse analogy. Electronic shifting is more akin to tiptronic type shifting in performance vehicles, where you manually select the gear and the electrickery takes care of the gear change. Whereas a full manual, typically uses mechanical linkages. They introduced a ton of expensive electronic and hydraulic issues for end users when things go tits up. Nothing more simple and pure on a bicycle than a lever, cable that needs next to no servicing for 1000s of miles.
@@mudbuddies1068 lol how about the simplicity of no adjustments, no cables to stretch, no cables to see or try to hide, and 100 percent reliable shifting with no lag or grinding ever. Luddites will always wax poetic about the telegraph ;)
I am old school, and I will not us electronic as long as I can avoid it. I also LOVE rim brakes. I know disk brakes are superior, but I just cant seem to get away from the beautiful rim brakes. Anyone remember the Campy Monoplaner brakes? Those were a thing of beauty!
I’m losing track of the number of pros I’ve seen let down by electronic shifting
If the pros don't complain, they won't change anything. We customers will still buy those bikes anyway
@@zapataboy9377 yup. I remember Peter Sagan refused to switch but most other pros have just gone along with it
I've also lost count on the number of times I see riders I know have their electronic groupsets run out of juice mid-ride.
If bikes were cheap, I would welcome electric shifting. But at $8-12k, leave me the option to go mechanical so i can find non-electrical parts and work on it for the next 10-15 years.
I picked mechanical for my f12 😊. Really enjoy the “feeling” of it. It’s like - do you prefer driving the stick or automatic?? Manual for me 👍
In racing you want every bit of advantage you can get. For the open road I say mechanical group set is the way to go. I don't want to fiddle with batteries when riding for fun.
I love my 9120 groupset mechanical shifting with hydraulic disc brakes. Wish they still made this or at least a Ultegra option like this. I have a bike with 9270 and another with 8000 as well and the 9120 is my favorite.
I bought a LOOK 795 BLADE RS with Shimano mechanical groupset and rim brakes. I was well aware that it was a ''last of the dinosaurs" purchase! I don't want batteries, I don't want to charge up my bike!
Steel frame, aluminum rims, mechanical shifting and rim brakes is my idea of a great bicycle.
I have a bike w dura-ace 9100 and one with ultegra 8000 and they are both silky smooth and extremely reliable. I run them both with rim brakes. I love them, and am saddened by their decision to force electronic and disc brakes. And the maintenance is simple, I can do it all in my basement with minimal tools/expertise. One less thing to charge, one less battery to lose, no disc rub, no brake bleeding, just pure riding joy.
I have Dura-Ace 9100 on my SuperSix and Dura-Ace 7400 on my Tommasini Super Prestige, but I have to give Shimano's 7800 the "best" moniker. Nothing since has been as smooth, as reliable or as beautiful as Dura-Ace 7800. But romance subtracting from the equation, I'd have to give it to 9100.
You’re absolutely correct about Shimano being crazy getting rid of the Dura-Ace mech. line. It hurts my heart to see! As a mechanic, I absolutely despise electronics on bikes!!
I just couldn't get my head around having to update the firmware on my bike! Will be sticking with mech for as long as possible...
I agree. They need to bring back mechanical shifting. Latest and greatest doesn't always mean better. A finely tuned groupset is probably just as good as an electronic groupset.
Most people agree 9100 was the pinnacle of mechanical which leaves Shimano with nowhere to go for improvement but [very expensive] weight reduction. They're taking the entirely cynical route, as is the rest of the industry until consumers push back
I jumped on a bike last August cause I knew it would probably be the last mechanical shifting bike I would buy. It’s so easy and reliable and it’s one less thing to have to charge
If Shimano really does stop making mechanical, I will be on team SRAM or Campy faster than a bat out of hell. For touring and bikepacking, mechanical will always be king.
Hmmmm whilst the Shadow mechs give a great range and less chance of catching the rear mech in a fall, their swiftest slickest group had to be R9000! Ultra quick and almost silent shifts! Match it with fully sealed ultra slick low friction Cables and it had no competition for shifting
I'm still on R9000 and absolutely love it. If I find a 9100 Mech group at a good price though, I'll definitely make the upgrade. The weekend I spent using this on a test bike blew me away. The industry just seems determined to do everything the consumer does not want, virtually forcing us all into electronic/disc groupsets... A complete shambles, and I wish they'd get back the option of Mechanical and Rim brake offerings.
@Charles Man and therein lies the issue. Bike consumers are painted into a corner...don't like discs or electronic shifting? Have you considered taking up running, maybe...??
If there was the choice, as there was a few years ago... disc/rim, di2/mech, the consumer would have some clout, but take away the options and there is no option.
I don’t want Di2. I’ve had zero issues and as I have to buy a long cage on new bikes, it’s an extra expense I don’t need. Looks like I’m self building and splitting my current bike.
Beautiful c50! I love mine, I have one of the last white frame models that I just bought from a friend of mine. All campy record parts and dt Swiss hubs. After riding it you’ll ask why anyone would want an electric shifting bike. It’s amazing and a bike I will cherish forever.
I've been using Dura Ace mechanical since 7800 groupset since 2004. I also use Di2, which I've used since 2011 when it was in its first generation. My opinion is aligned with yours. However, with the right cables, mechanical can actually shift faster than Di2. I love both and couldn't fault either.
Dura Ace mechanical was truly fantastic.
rim brakes are 1) much less hassle 2) cheaper and 3) lighter....they work fine. I NEVER want disc brakes. Manufacturers need stop their push for disc brakes, surveys show that at least half of riders want rim brakes.
Is it possible that mechanical groupsets are more expensive to produce than electrical? Maybe thats the reason why Shimano is moving in this direction.
If the rumored 12sp 105 Mechanical (R7100/R7120) really comes, I hope it will be as good as the R9100 in shifting quality.
Agreed it would be nice but it would also be good to have lighter options than 105.
I have the 9100 mechanical group on my Pinarello F8 and I love it…
As I can understand Shimano for dropping mechanical shifting in their Dura Ace line, maybe UItegra too, but no mechanical 105 is wrong decision in my opinion. Pro mechanics may use the convenience of wireless shifting in team bikes but the faff of batteries and price barrier will put off a keen amateur. SRAM doesn't make 12 speed mechanical road groupset as well. It's weird and probably other vendors will step in and happily take that part of the market, which is sad. I've heard that perhaps it is difficult to make 12 speed mechanical groupset but I don't think so. Both Shimano and SRAM are happy making 12 speed MTB groupsets which work excellent even in mud and dust.
When rebuilding my old MTB to a full Shimano XTR, I stuck to my mechanical shifters because they functions, also without being able to charge my battery.
I literally run the same group set, Bars, Tape, and wheels on my caad13. I 100% agree with everything you.
The old Dura Ace 9150 Di2 is absolutely amazing, but the weight and cost of the latest 12 speed Dura-Ace Di2 puts it out of the reach of most cyclists - completely; I actually don't want a Di2 groupset for my endurance set up - prefer mechanical - tough luck Shimano; I will be buying a mechanical group set elsewhere.
There is a trend in the bike industry to go in a certain direction regardless of consumer trends & habits - this trend is mostly for more expensive and less user friendly products such as Di2 or hydraulic disc brakes - neither cheap nor user friendly thus actually not going to be press ganged into buying such 🚫💿🚫💿⛔💿⛔
Cyclists generally don't want to carry a battery bank around in-case the group set battery goes flat.
I am NOT a pro racer. I ride for pleaser and do a lot of long distance touring. Why the hell would I want to deal with batteries on a 1500 mile bikepacking trip? If they are going to do this they need to make separate racing (electronic shifting) and touring (mechanical shifting) lineups.
Agree, never wished I had a better shifting bike than my current 9100 group set. If I was a mountain goat daily rider, I'd op for disc brakes. Otherwise, rim brakes have never failed me. No bike shop needed for servicing either with this group set.
Completely agree. Nothing wrong with cables
Dear David, I can sign every word you said. I love the simplicity of cycling!
I have never used electronic shifting, but i would imagine its like enjoying driving cars and going from manual to automatic
This is exactly the expression.
Campy mechanical was better in 2017 and is better today. I understand you are riding that nice Dura-Ace group right now.
But don’t forget about Campy. It is just so insanely good. And has been for 70+ years.
I totally agree!
I have a 2011. Madone, Shimano 105 groupset all mechanical. Bought new wheels and changed the cables. I have no intent on going electric any time soon.
Recently purchased a mountain bike with hydraulic disc brakes and I’m absolutely blown away with it. The braking is much quicker and if I don’t have both hands available I can easily stop the bike with either brake. What an exceptional improvement. As far as electrical shifting ? I don’t see the reasoning behind it other than raising the price of the bicycle and parts. What sort of improvement could it make other than no cables to worry about breaking ?
I agree, I own 4 bikes ( BMC TT Di2 rim / Aeroad Mech rim / SL6 Mech disc / SL7 Di2 disc)
and I can live without Di2, it makes more sense to me for TT.
I never had issue yet with Di2, but some mates had battery dying during race or costly replacement when crashing.
My only complain when using Mech groupset with disc, lever are a little bigger compared to Di2 Disc
Other than that, Mech should still be available! ( just like car all getting Automatic :( )
What a great tribute. Makes me pine to ride a bike with this groupset. Great video!
I never used a DI 2 in any Shimano groupset but I can tell you that I love my Dura Ace mechanical group set. It's quick and requires only minimal effort to shift gears.
Your classic Colnago is gorgeous!
Agreed, the best ever looking groupset but always thought the 9000 chainset looked better (IMHO)
I have an SWorks SL6 wioth full 9100 mechanical and rim brakes. Beautiful group to finish a bike with and you can't ask for a more reliable and functional setup. But I agree with you about the 9000 crank and brakeset. My Lynskey Ti has 9100 derailleurs and shifters but a 9000 crank and brakeset. It looks fantastic with the gloss of unpainted, brushed ti. Beautiful!!!
Fully agree. By all means go full hydraulic disk brake if needed, but keep mechanical in the 12 speed format across the brand. Massive mistake especially in the mid-range. Hopefully 12sp R7100 will be released as roumoured. Hopefully an Ultegra R8100 mechanical as well. If they don't then I'll stick to 11spd R7000 and pair it with a set of Juin Tech GT-P4 if I go disc brakes.
12 speed mechanical is non-beneficial. The extra speed is non beneficial, there is one video clearly explain the extra cog size and why it is insignificant.
Better you stick with Ultegra 11s mechanical with 8010 crank. Lite than 12s electronic. Don't waste your money.
The major changes in 12s electronic gs is the crankset design. They design the 12s crankset more symmetrical so it can read power meter sensor accurately and improve the crankset strength.
The 12s is just for gimmick so the customer will feels shimano done a lot of change. The extra speed is non-benificial.
MTB need 12s because they have bigger cog size at 1st & 2nd cog, so the chain can jump smoothly.
For roadbike, the ratio is between cog is very small. Add extra one cog at the middle of the cassette will not change anything.
When competitor release 12s, they will follow, otherwise they will missing out.
So we as consumer need to be wise.
@@apair4002 Nothing to do with 11sp vs 12spd and a 16 cog. It's about bringing it in line with the rest of the groupset, so 12spd. Shimano imo will eventually phase out R7000 as they are with R8000. They need to bring out R7100 mechanical, 12spd to keep a market share in that segmnent.
My bicycle is approx 40 yrs old, with Shimano 6000 group set.
Still smooth, dependable shifting and good braking.