I really wish we had looked into the nuances of this when I was a player in that campaign. At that point we were 16 and basically wanted to kill everything, so they were just more monsters to slay. What I wouldn't give to play again with that teenage enthusiasm and innocence, but coupled with the appreciation of depth and complexity that comes with maturity.
I used Nedylene in my campaign as a member of House Despana, opposed to House Eilservs. After the party's magic-user got petrified by the gorgon and the party's thief got struck by the tentacle rod and taken by Eclavdra's drow, Nedylene offered the party her help and made the party pawns in Erelhei-Cinlu's drow power struggle.
That's what I loved so much about the original AD&D modules! You had so much with so many options for the DM to cater it to the individual campaign. That was so sadly lacking in later works where the party is driven down a set path and too much is laid out for the results.
It's true about Nedylene not being identified in G3. It's not until D3 Vault of the Drow that she is listed as belonging to House Despana. That house is part of the pro-Lolth faction, so it explains why she is opposed to Eclavdra and is spying on her activities in G3.
That's awesome!!! I think I'll start having Lareth from Hommlet drop Nedylene's name as a Drow that might actually help them if they drop Lareth's name instead of attacking her. If they don't kill Lareth right off the bat that is....which they usually can't.
@@miguelroca5098 Ever since Lareth escaped them....he's paid small children 1 GP to deliver cryptic letters to the party swaying them towards Lolth's enemies like Eclavdra. So they are all pretty familiar with (and freaked out by) him now, lol
I DM'ed G1 and G2 for our regular group (which, in that incarnation, was just me, my brother, and our parents' friends' kid who was a friend of ours and came over with them when they visited every other week). We got to G3 but didn't get past the front room, where their PC's and henchmen got into a huge brawl *right there at the front of the dungeon* with Snurre and his lackeys! I remember we spent about half of a 3-hour session resolving the combat, and then *another* 3-hour session continuing the combat at the next visit! The PC's eventually won, but we didn't get much past that. I wish we had gotten to the bottom levels of the dungeon. I have read it, but I hadn't made these connections before.
Now I need to dig out T1-4 and GDQ and read like crazy, plot out everything then find some players. Maybe by that time Adventures Dark and Deep v2 will be out.
That's a wonderful video, Joe. This is some of your finest work! I eagerly anticipate your next video, showcasing the little Easter eggs and clever plot devices found in old-school modules.
I never ran across a drow in actual D&D, but man, they were everywhere in Second Life. And they were nearly always jerks. Which, I suppose, means the players were doing a good job. Didn't run across too many Drizzt inspired characters. Quite interesting and insightful video as always, good sir.
I always assumed if the drow had no surname s/he was the same house as Eclvadra’s house. I also assumed that the scheming was just normal drow scheming as opposed to another drow faction. Could be wrong of course ! Your interpretation is cool as well 😎
The economy of language in this module for the page count is amazing. He packed a freaking ton into this module. I'm not saying this to be some big brain guy, but I picked up on this drow faction work after I ran this the first time. I thought I read it well beforehand, but I had that moment where the players are looking at me and I'm realizing that I'd totally missed something and there's that silence and I know I'm freezing and my confidence is just slipping away... "Is my face red?" "They don't know but they know something is up. My face must be red.. what do I do?" "Ok guys roll 1d20 twenty times and write each result in a collumn going down the page. Let me know when you're readt" [Frantically read, read, read: wtf did I miss? How bad is the damage?] Good times.. From then on I read each module like three times.
I DM'd G1-Q1 from 1980-86, from 10th grade into my junior year in college. The group of players met about 1x per month when I was in highschool and maybe only 4 or 5 times a year when I was in college, so it took a long time to complete. The details around the BBEG was so confusing and remain so. Why did the PCs go after Lolth in the Demonweb Pits when it seemed like the Elder Elemental god was behind the scheme? By the time we were in college and my players were getting together less frequently, forgetfulness of previous sessions crept in, and they didn't perceive the gaps of continuity that I perceived. Oh well. My players had fun even though I think we lost track of the plot.
I started my group in G1 on Christmas Eve 1980. We finished it that night. Then each successive module took longer, and longer, and longer... We played all weekend, every weekend (and constantly the following summer), and it STILL took us about a year to finish up with Q1 (including forays into all the little side worlds presented). What a trip! =^[.]^=
Nice discovery. I think Gary wanted to give us a taste of the drow politics beforehand, another proof the game never wasn't a meatgrinder (except for that module) nor a pure stealth game like the revisionists claim. Good observation about static NPCs too. Named characters at this level need to be moving around like Strahd once the PCs start messing around, and drow are the perfect villains to know about their past crimes, alignments, and secret allegiances.
They way I was able to get the all important information to my party was...they found a box of transports in the Glacial Rift that was owned by the Ogre Magi. Eclavdra herself had the other box in the set. So, at some point a letter of instruction was sent to the Ogre Magi by Eclavdra (Orge Magi were dead at this point) so the party recieved the note. They attempted to return a letter in disguise as The Magi, and Ecl. Soon recognized the giants were dead and she was in direct communication with the party that did it. Needless to say she lied incessantly to them through the box notes (By telling them their true target is Gelyndira of House Kilsek, "Go destroy THEM!"). The party eventually realized they were being played but not before they were informed of many important things along their journey (Including the guiding of Ecl of the party to the Crowned Botton in Erelhei-Cinlu) and the existance of Ool the mind flayer. As a sidenoye on this module....there is an Ancient Red dragon in a cave on the 3rd level....very bogus realistically. I moved him to the top of the volcano in a cave above the Hall and that led to a much more interesting situation with him!
Yes, absolutely. But it is the start of a bigger problem. The GDQ campaign can easily play out with the party understanding the Drow conflict and essentially siding with the Lolth faction. If it goes that way the final battle is going to be an attack on the Eilservs mansion, which will be some work for the DM. The Drow in D1 are of the Lolth faction too, so that whole area will get bypassed (but it is a boring zoo anyway).
Everyone I played with in the 80s called it dr-Oh. We didn't have the internet obviously and I only remember seeing a pronunciation guide in Dragon. If you didn't see that issue....
Thanks for the video. I played this campaign once, and i am sure you played it several times. Maybe you could say what was your interpretation, what did you say to your players ?
Oh lordy, I believe chapter 6 in Tales From the Yawning Portal has that as part of the giant adventures. However the map to level 3 on page 204 looks weird compared the map you are showing (squashed). IIRC, 'Eclavdra's camp's were rivals to the junior 'Nedylene'. Out of the two I improv a Lolth domain using the old Drow of the Underdark let for AD&D 2e, while Eclavdra followed the Trickery domain. The mage/fighter-mage I turned into a War lock cultist of Ghaunadar, manipulating both Eclavdra's camp and the temple of the Eye. After sensing opportunity Nedylene bails our party out of a dangerous situation to get one over her rival. It turns out the party get evidence that not only is Eclavdra causing mayhem, but is in collusion with cultists. Nestled exposes her rival as a heretic the cultist makes off with resources after betraying Eclavdra and the party....well we barely made it out! I had no idea it was a Greyhawk adventure, think I will have that cultist become cult-magus (Warlock-cleric 6th), working in collusion with the cultists in ToEE.
I kind of enjoy digging into things like this... although, the author probably wasn't trying to say anything specific, and the PCs will just off anything and everything without pausing to find out their allegiance. So this is entirely for the DM. Still fun.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I really wish we had looked into the nuances of this when I was a player in that campaign. At that point we were 16 and basically wanted to kill everything, so they were just more monsters to slay. What I wouldn't give to play again with that teenage enthusiasm and innocence, but coupled with the appreciation of depth and complexity that comes with maturity.
I used Nedylene in my campaign as a member of House Despana, opposed to House Eilservs. After the party's magic-user got petrified by the gorgon and the party's thief got struck by the tentacle rod and taken by Eclavdra's drow, Nedylene offered the party her help and made the party pawns in Erelhei-Cinlu's drow power struggle.
Brilliant
@@cydraiyne8323 thanks!
@@cydraiyne8323 Thanks!
@@cydraiyne8323 Thanks!
That's what I loved so much about the original AD&D modules! You had so much with so many options for the DM to cater it to the individual campaign. That was so sadly lacking in later works where the party is driven down a set path and too much is laid out for the results.
It's true about Nedylene not being identified in G3. It's not until D3 Vault of the Drow that she is listed as belonging to House Despana. That house is part of the pro-Lolth faction, so it explains why she is opposed to Eclavdra and is spying on her activities in G3.
I loved the open nature of some of these things in older modules.
Great catch there Joseph! Good working digging out the clues of this epic campaign. I will definitely use it in my campaign.
That's awesome!!! I think I'll start having Lareth from Hommlet drop Nedylene's name as a Drow that might actually help them if they drop Lareth's name instead of attacking her. If they don't kill Lareth right off the bat that is....which they usually can't.
Note-taking player: Hey, do you remember that cleric we fought at level 1. Well...
@@miguelroca5098 Ever since Lareth escaped them....he's paid small children 1 GP to deliver cryptic letters to the party swaying them towards Lolth's enemies like Eclavdra. So they are all pretty familiar with (and freaked out by) him now, lol
I DM'ed G1 and G2 for our regular group (which, in that incarnation, was just me, my brother, and our parents' friends' kid who was a friend of ours and came over with them when they visited every other week). We got to G3 but didn't get past the front room, where their PC's and henchmen got into a huge brawl *right there at the front of the dungeon* with Snurre and his lackeys! I remember we spent about half of a 3-hour session resolving the combat, and then *another* 3-hour session continuing the combat at the next visit! The PC's eventually won, but we didn't get much past that. I wish we had gotten to the bottom levels of the dungeon. I have read it, but I hadn't made these connections before.
You sir have uncovered the main plot! I think Gary had intended that this story would be told! Despite D1-3&Q1
Heh
Now I need to dig out T1-4 and GDQ and read like crazy, plot out everything then find some players. Maybe by that time Adventures Dark and Deep v2 will be out.
That's a wonderful video, Joe. This is some of your finest work! I eagerly anticipate your next video, showcasing the little Easter eggs and clever plot devices found in old-school modules.
Boy that brings back memories.
Great insights Joe!
Thanks as always.
I never ran across a drow in actual D&D, but man, they were everywhere in Second Life. And they were nearly always jerks. Which, I suppose, means the players were doing a good job. Didn't run across too many Drizzt inspired characters.
Quite interesting and insightful video as always, good sir.
I always assumed if the drow had no surname s/he was the same house as Eclvadra’s house. I also assumed that the scheming was just normal drow scheming as opposed to another drow faction. Could be wrong of course !
Your interpretation is cool as well 😎
This whole module is tough!
Another great video. It actually gave me some ideas for game design. Thanks
Good eye bro. Keep lookin out!
Greyhawk loves its giants. Greyhawk is the best setting for the Giants.
The economy of language in this module for the page count is amazing. He packed a freaking ton into this module.
I'm not saying this to be some big brain guy, but I picked up on this drow faction work after I ran this the first time. I thought I read it well beforehand, but I had that moment where the players are looking at me and I'm realizing that I'd totally missed something and there's that silence and I know I'm freezing and my confidence is just slipping away...
"Is my face red?"
"They don't know but they know something is up. My face must be red.. what do I do?"
"Ok guys roll 1d20 twenty times and write each result in a collumn going down the page. Let me know when you're readt"
[Frantically read, read, read: wtf did I miss? How bad is the damage?]
Good times..
From then on I read each module like three times.
I DM'd G1-Q1 from 1980-86, from 10th grade into my junior year in college. The group of players met about 1x per month when I was in highschool and maybe only 4 or 5 times a year when I was in college, so it took a long time to complete. The details around the BBEG was so confusing and remain so. Why did the PCs go after Lolth in the Demonweb Pits when it seemed like the Elder Elemental god was behind the scheme? By the time we were in college and my players were getting together less frequently, forgetfulness of previous sessions crept in, and they didn't perceive the gaps of continuity that I perceived. Oh well. My players had fun even though I think we lost track of the plot.
I started my group in G1 on Christmas Eve 1980. We finished it that night. Then each successive module took longer, and longer, and longer... We played all weekend, every weekend (and constantly the following summer), and it STILL took us about a year to finish up with Q1 (including forays into all the little side worlds presented). What a trip! =^[.]^=
This is great info to think about as I and planning to run the GDQ + series.
Great video! Also, dig that Outland / Con-Am shirt.❤
Someone finally got it!
Super cool commentary.
Nice discovery. I think Gary wanted to give us a taste of the drow politics beforehand, another proof the game never wasn't a meatgrinder (except for that module) nor a pure stealth game like the revisionists claim.
Good observation about static NPCs too. Named characters at this level need to be moving around like Strahd once the PCs start messing around, and drow are the perfect villains to know about their past crimes, alignments, and secret allegiances.
They way I was able to get the all important information to my party was...they found a box of transports in the Glacial Rift that was owned by the Ogre Magi. Eclavdra herself had the other box in the set. So, at some point a letter of instruction was sent to the Ogre Magi by Eclavdra (Orge Magi were dead at this point) so the party recieved the note. They attempted to return a letter in disguise as The Magi, and Ecl. Soon recognized the giants were dead and she was in direct communication with the party that did it.
Needless to say she lied incessantly to them through the box notes (By telling them their true target is Gelyndira of House Kilsek, "Go destroy THEM!"). The party eventually realized they were being played but not before they were informed of many important things along their journey (Including the guiding of Ecl of the party to the Crowned Botton in Erelhei-Cinlu) and the existance of Ool the mind flayer.
As a sidenoye on this module....there is an Ancient Red dragon in a cave on the 3rd level....very bogus realistically. I moved him to the top of the volcano in a cave above the Hall and that led to a much more interesting situation with him!
Yes, absolutely. But it is the start of a bigger problem. The GDQ campaign can easily play out with the party understanding the Drow conflict and essentially siding with the Lolth faction. If it goes that way the final battle is going to be an attack on the Eilservs mansion, which will be some work for the DM. The Drow in D1 are of the Lolth faction too, so that whole area will get bypassed (but it is a boring zoo anyway).
By sheer coincidence, I fully mapped and detailed the Eilservs estate in my D4 City of Spiders module. (Free download on the website.)
Drow rhymes with cow. Now. Wow. Pow. How. Source: E. Gary Gygax.
Yeah, him pronouncing it like *droh* is really throwing me off here. I didn't know he was 'one of them'.
Everyone I played with in the 80s called it dr-Oh. We didn't have the internet obviously and I only remember seeing a pronunciation guide in Dragon. If you didn't see that issue....
Rhymes perfectly with Bow
@@BockwinkleB #93, guide by Frank Mentzer
*sigh* I wish I had all 3 giant modules in monochrome rather than the "Against the Giants" mega module that combines them all into one.
I did a video on the differences in the various versions a while back. You might find it of interest.
Thanks for the video.
I played this campaign once, and i am sure you played it several times.
Maybe you could say what was your interpretation, what did you say to your players ?
Oh lordy, I believe chapter 6 in Tales From the Yawning Portal has that as part of the giant adventures. However the map to level 3 on page 204 looks weird compared the map you are showing (squashed).
IIRC, 'Eclavdra's camp's were rivals to the junior 'Nedylene'. Out of the two I improv a Lolth domain using the old Drow of the Underdark let for AD&D 2e, while Eclavdra followed the Trickery domain. The mage/fighter-mage I turned into a War lock cultist of Ghaunadar, manipulating both Eclavdra's camp and the temple of the Eye. After sensing opportunity Nedylene bails our party out of a dangerous situation to get one over her rival. It turns out the party get evidence that not only is Eclavdra causing mayhem, but is in collusion with cultists. Nestled exposes her rival as a heretic the cultist makes off with resources after betraying Eclavdra and the party....well we barely made it out!
I had no idea it was a Greyhawk adventure, think I will have that cultist become cult-magus (Warlock-cleric 6th), working in collusion with the cultists in ToEE.
Nedylene, not nestled, lol.
I kind of enjoy digging into things like this... although, the author probably wasn't trying to say anything specific, and the PCs will just off anything and everything without pausing to find out their allegiance. So this is entirely for the DM. Still fun.
**Felyndira not Gelindyra..😂