As a train engineer for 20 years I had six incidents of striking trespassers and saw the results of many more. It is very traumatic and you tend to blame yourself at first. I still can recall each incident like it happened yesterday. You usually take a few days off afterwards and you can seek counseling. Some engineers go on permanent disability. I am retired now. Thanks Juan
I had a relative who was a UP engineer. He struck a couple in a stalled car once, and another girl who was walking down the tracks with headphones in. You never get over it.
MojaveDan Your brother is pulling your leg. I was a BNSF engineer for 20 years and nobody is taught that....it’s ridiculous. Besides, trains don’t speed up any faster than they slow down.
MojaveDan Imagine you were operating a train, came around a curve and saw a carload of kids stuck on the tracks ahead of you. You’re telling me that you would try to speed up instead of doing everything in your powers to stop or at least slow your train. I’d like to see you explain that to the investigators....and there will be investigators. I’m offended that you would even suggest such a stupid idea.
@@ejh4isu My wife and I ride bikes on the greenway in our small town. We often encounter people with headphones or earbuds in, head down texting or playing games or whatever. I always call them future victims. Victims of their own stupidity, that is. We had bells on the bikes, but they were too soft and polite so I put squeeze bulb horns on them and still sometimes they don't hear them. The worst ones are the ones that reach the end of their walk or jog and suddenly do a U-turn without looking. I've nearly crashed trying to get stopped before taking them out on more than one occasion. Hopefully I scared the shtuff out of them badly enough that they think about it next time, but I doubt it.
Absolutely, Southwest just happened to be flying in these difficult times and maintain some ops while other airlines went belly up. It's all on the airport perimeter security.
Reminds me of a story a train engineer told me once: After a collision between his train and a car, the driver of the car told the police that the train swerved and hit her. So the engineer told the officer "Come up into the cab of the locomotive. If you find a steering wheel, I'll take the blame for the accident."
@@murphsmodels8853 A friend of mine once wisely looked both ways at a crossing, made a few wise and knowing gestures, and said "a train just came through here". I asked him how he knew and he said "I can tell by the tracks" :D
We were on an excursion train once. The engine was crossing a road to hook up at what would be the front of the train for the return journey. A cop car coming to the crossing suddenly puts his lights on and shoots across in front of the engine. He shut his lights off a block on the other side. I wonder what good he thought those lights would do him?
I was a Railroad Tower operator for a long time. I witnessed a couple of pedestrian strikes and had to deal with many more while on duty. The Engineers did not usually get over the incidents very fast, some were scarred for life.
@vonmazur1 you are so right. It is certainly a sad event, but the engineers are usually very upset by the whole experience and carry that feeling of forced helplessness with them for a long time.
My grandpa once talked to an engineer and he said that the one thing he never wanted to ever happen was hit someone because there’s nothing they can do about it
Thanks for the update on this sad news Juan. Your professionalism and compassion when dealing with sensitive and tragic incidents like this is truly comforting. Take good care and see you here!
johnmaer ah, so who decides what is candid and unbiased? You? What do you know about how much “skin in the game” we have? I have been fired once already this year and managed to hold onto my employment by a thread of luck because my base didn’t close. Many of my colleagues wasn’t that lucky. Now we are facing another huge crisis and the likes of Juan is going out of his way to use his experience in order to explain what’s going on to the wise public. And you give him slack for that? What “truth” is it exactly that you would you like to hear?
@@johnmaer what do you mean? What bias do they take? What cover up do they make? Can you make it more clear? Your comment is hard for me to understand. Maybe it is just me, so I would appreciate if you clear up your points.
@@johnmaer air crash reports are available publicly. From many institutions and organisations around the worlds. Also statistics contradicts with a a lot of your points about air safety. The fact is driving a car and riding a motorcycle are far more dangerous than air travel. The only thing that safer are probably high speed trains. Where accidents can be counted by fingers. Since these studies and reports are available publicly. You can read them by yourself. No need to take my words for it.
Mr. Brown, I am currently working as a locomotive engineer for a Class 1 Railroad in the North East. In my 26 yrs.of operating a locomotive I’ve been one of the lucky ones when it comes to accidents with trespassers. I’ve only had 1 unfortunate experience ,many others in the industry have experienced multiple fatalities. There is literally nothing we can do to avoid a encounter with a person that is trespassing for what ever reason, unless we are notified 2 miles or more ahead of time to come to a complete stop. Most of the time we are notified by the train dispatcher of a vehicle hung up on the tracks in which we can stop ahead of time. But with people it’s a bit different. You can be informed ahead of time of a trespasser walking on or near the tracks by the Dispatcher or another train crew. The standard response to such alerts is to reduce your speed and sounding of the horn until the intentions of that person are realized, most get out of the way some don’t. A warning from us is usually all it takes. But there is no quick way to stop to avoid conflict. T38’s 👍🇺🇸 I enjoy your channel ! Keep up the great work.
I watched it on VAS last night and was waiting for your take on it. Thank you for the explanation re the low light and what the pilot could have done or not done. I really feel for the pilots and crew, and RIP to the soul that wound up in harms way.
Railroad engineer here from Germany - „only“ hit one person after 14 years of running freight trains - the average is about one in ten years here. The procedure here is you obviously stop as fast as you can (which can be about 1000 meters braking distance) and you get relieved by another colleque at the spot after the police is done. Usually you stay home for a couple of weeks and it’s back to business. Sadly there are engineers that get PTSD and are unable to work in again. please stay off the tracks guys ;-)
All you can do is sound the horn, right? Here in the UK a track worker is struck by a train about once a year. Drivers are supposed to sound their horn on seeing anyone near the track, and the person should acknowledge hearing the horn by raising their hand. Also track maintenance teams will have a nominated "lookout" person to warn them of oncoming trains (most accidents seem to happen when engineers are walking between sites, when they might be separated from the lookout)
Like at airports, the main prevention strategy is proper communication and making sure trains and people don't come close to each other in the first place. This tragic example from a couple of years ago highlights poor management by engineering contractors as a key lesson assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d261143e5274a592254abbf/R072019_190711_Stoats_Nest_Junction.pdf
My father and a friend were struck by a freight train at a crossing; it was a foggy morning. I have no idea if the train sounded its horn. It happened in 1951, I think. My dad was only 19 years old, and a passenger. He and the driver were pretty banged up; my dad lost his spleen. Both guys survived, or I wouldn't be here.😉
Listened to the audio on VASAviation a few days ago. You could tell those boys were rattled a bit. So tragic for all. Thank you Juan for your hard work in all these videos. Hope you and your family are well these days!
Hi Juan, I’ve been a locomotive engineer for 25 years, and unfortunately I’ve been involved with 4 fatalities. We’re pretty helpless in these situations, especially suicides which were the results of the fatalities I’ve had. All you can do is turn your head and wait for the sound of the impact. Even though we don’t know the individuals, there is still the feeling of loss, but we don’t have the capability to swerve around the impending situation. With all that has happened, I certainly have empathy for the crew and everyone involved.
Since you asked; I was a RR engineer in a past life: There was NO way to avoid a crash in a train. You would dump the air and lock all the brakes, but it take up to a mile to stop a train at speed.
Man... by "dumping the air" it must be an engineer's most desperate effort to try stopping so much kinetic energy! I wonder if by doing that, you're sacrificing all the wheels and maybe even a good stretch of the track as well...
BatGoat I've watched the videos on Crime Scene Cleaners, so I have a tiny inkling of what goes on. The worst one I saw was a veteran who died of suicide and no one noticed for a very long time.
Speaking as a locomotive engineer. Whenever you come across a stopped object on the tracks at almost any speed with any length of train behind you the stopping distance varies. Obviously you would want to try to avoid any obstruction however with a 3000 foot train it will almost always take a quarter mile to a mile long to stop at full service brake application (max brakes). And just a little less if you were to dump it (emergency brakes) so as for us there’s not much you can do unless the object is about a mile away and even then it’s too late most of the time. Speaking from experience I’ve hit 2 atvs (at different times yet very close to the same exact location) and 1 vehicle. All 4 people in all of the accidents survived thank God! It’s a scary world out there in the transportation industry, be safe!
Would applying emergency brakes be something that you wouldn't want to do, unless you really had to? For example potential damage to the train/tracks, etc.
As a locomotive engineer, I've struck three pedestrians, all fatalities. A normal response is to apply the emergency brake, and that's basically all you can do. The train is stopped and is not moved again until all the authorities have arrived and completed their reports and investigation. Generally, the crew is relieved and a new crew takes the train to the destination. This normally takes 2.5 - 4 hours.
I knew a person who deliberately stepped in front of a high speed train as it passed through a local station. Nothing you can do, except wonder about the level of desperation such people must feel, and mourn their passing. A sad situation for the captain and first officer of this Southwest flight, but no blame can attach to them, or to the airline. If people want to end their lives, they will find a way.
I nearly was that person 3 years ago. Yes, you're very far gone when you get into that state of mind. What saved me was the thought that my cat would starve if I didn't go home first and open the door so he could get out... Got home and the cat must have noticed something was wrong because he snuggled up to me for several hours, wouldn't let me do anything. That calmed me down.
One of my weirdest parenting conversations to was tell my two teenage, bi-polar step-daughters “if you’re going to kill yourself remember ‘don’t involve anyone else and don’t make a mess”. So far they have heeded that advice.
@@axelknutt5065 Honestly, when people have told me kind of shit during my "dark times", it made me SO upset, that I literally wanted to do the direct opposite of that advice, just to spite the world even further, and cause even more anger and grief.
I'm more interested in who the individual was. Can't fault a big-ass plane for hitting something that small upon landing at dusk. Hopefully, the pilots recognize that it was a terrible situation but not their fault.
Thanks. You keep it grounded. You always do. For those of us fortunate to have gotten to your channel we are informed as best as you are able. I have zero to do with the aviation industry. Nevertheless I seek reliable resources who make the disciplined effort to acquire facts and report same. Juan, your contribution is the advantage of your training, experience and character. That's why I am a Patreon supporter. PS love that chewy wanted to get whatever he needed and you respected your dog. That's American.
Anyone trespassing onto an active airport should expect maiming or death. The trespasser is to blame, not the aircrew. And if it was an airport employee that was killed, they must've had a serious lapse in judgment, with deadly consequences.
Agreed, unless the individual entered the runway from one of the ends, they would have definitely had a solid minute or two walking to the runway to realize the stupidity of what they were doing. The individual had to have been mentally compromised, or wanted to die exactly the way he did
I can’t even imagine what these pilots must be going through.....I’m in highway construction and I had a persons dog get off its leash and run directly in front of my truck, I had no time to react....I felt sick to my stomach and didn’t want to work the rest of the night....I had the dogs poor owner consoling me....🙏🏻
I just watched the VASAviation video on this incident. They did not let their audience know more about the person who was struck. Thank you for letting us know more of the details. Yes, apparently from their video, the pilot wanted to stop on the taxiway possibly to check on the situation. But ground control arrived on the scene, so the plane could continue to the gate.
I was a transit cop for a major SoCal rail agency, I've dealt my own share of trespasser strikes and the results are always not pretty. One of my proudest moments was when I possibly stopped a man from jumping in front of a train. He was spotted on CCTV hiding behind a transformer box near the tracks and my partner and I immediately made contact and escorted him off the mainline. He was from out of state, looked transient, and was rabbling off about being royalty. He was placed on a 5150 hold and I never saw him again.
Thank you Juan for sharing your thoughts on this incident. I read about this a couple of days ago and have wondered about it. I'd like to thank you also for your take on Southwest Airlines. This is the carrier that my wife and I frequently (use to) fly on out of Sac. It's reassuring to hear a commercial pilot share his/her thoughts. It gives us a good feeling. God Bless you and your family, Chewy included. To the victim of that tragic event, may you RIP. May God be with the crew of that aircraft. Stan
As with our 12-9 on the NYC Subway, we average 150 a year. Most of them are suicides. Very few are by accidents, either falling in between cars or trespassing. The position and time of day he stood on that runway appears he knew exactly what he was doing. He was standing on a point of no return for him and the poor crew of that Jet. Totally a traumatizing experience. I bet you he was committing suicide.. A Typical New York City subway car are 40 ton and we drag 10 cars. 4000 to 4500 horsepower total per train set. At 40mph it take us 400 ft to stop in "Brakes In Emergency mode" (B.I.E.) that's with full pneumatic breaking and dynamic braking combined. When someone steps in front of our train and after we put train into emergency there's nothing that we could do but watch this horrifying event unfold in front of us and the clunking sound you would never forget. If there's any chance that u know this crew please tell them to take there time getting back on the road. Most of us still flinch going down the road years after our 12-9. You doing an outstanding job on your channel.
Same here in South Africa, and a train has no ability to change direction, or stop fast. Even going at a little above walking pace the train will still take 100m to stop, as a driver found out driving past the boom to cross a guarded level crossing found out. Exception is the iron ore and coal trains, where stopping is a minimum of 16km from full speed. Mandatory counselling after each incident, and you are pensioned off on full pension after 12-15 incidents, which is possible to reach in 2 years on some lines if you are unlucky. Have known a few train drivers, and all of them have had this, even the one who spent his entire career in the shunting yards.
Not necessarily a suicide. Could have been a RUclipsr or photographer. I've done some pretty stupid stuff to get a good pic. Or, some idiot who watched Pushing Tin trying to replicate their stunt.
I've heard speculation that it was a suicide. With the damage to the inlet lip, and hearing that the pilot tried to maneuver to avoid the person, just imagine how close that person was to being ingested into the engine.
Outstanding video JB. As always, it’s reassuring to know that the aviation professionals remained calm & collected while performing their duties. I sure do miss those great guest appearances by Chewy
I see a lot of crash videos of trucks trying to avoid colliding with a car that cuts in front and they crash into several "innocent" other drivers. Just hit the guy in front, you aren't getting away unscathed.
As a commercial truck driver, I can tell you we are trained to steer strait and mash the accelerator to the floor. A heavy loaded truck is more like to go straight and stay upright if this is the driver's reaction. Swerving results in loss of control, and loss of control results in loss of life and millions of dollars in damage.
My father was an engineer for Grand Trunk - he hit 3 people while going from Michigan to Chicago. Absolutely cannot avoid hitting a person determined to be hit by a train sadly.
What chaps me is that the headlines invariably read: "Train Hits Pedestrian" when in reality it's obviously, "Man Steps in Front of Train". Don't blame the train, folks! :-/
Friend of mine is an train engineer. Long time ago, the first time someone walked on his track and it was over. That hurt him real bad and he took time off and got some help. He went back and I think it’s happened to him 4 or 5 times since. One was a mother with her children in a car. She left a suicide note. Damn shame. He’s still out there on the rails.
A friend and I was bike riding on a bike trail in Denver and the trail had 2 paths one went under the rails and the other went up to street level by the crossing, we stopped on top watching traffic before we where going to turn around and head back to the trail which we came when we watched a women in a Chevy Vega filled with kids turn off of Santa Fe Drive onto the street that crossed the rails with the gates down and a 100+ car coal train almost at the intersection only to be hit by the train, the car bunched a few times down the tracks only to be hit again three more times, needless to say no one survived the mother and her children never had a chance because she was in a hurry to get to the shopping mall 3 blocks away. As for the individual that incurred on the runway at Austin/Bergstrom airport either he was trying to commit suicide or just a plain moron walking in front of a landing airliner during landing. Not to speak I'll of the dead but I think he just won this year's Darwin Award.
@@cudathehawgjetfixer7520 Were you biking along the Platte River? South Santa Fe and a shopping mall (maybe the old CINDERELLA CITY MALL) come to mind. Must have been a horrific scene. Thanks for your comment! usmale49 in Denver
In a very strange coincidence, about a year ago I flew into ABIA and departed Austin on AMTRAK to Los Angeles. About dusk, the train hit an individual on the tracks in downtown New Braunfels, TX; a few miles SW of Austin. The train was stopped for 3 hours as the incident was investigated. I can't imagine how horrible the event was for the locomotive engineer.
When I was going to HS (I think), use to hang around with this kid three houses down from me - I didn't see him after a while and found out his Mom did the "suicide by Amtrak" just north of Hyde Park, NY. She piled brush up and squatted down behind it, at the next station, the conductor and engineer went to check for damage and found blood and flesh. When there's a will, there's a way, unfortunately.
Locomotive engineer 21years. I hit a car just after driver jumped out. Still messed me up. Everyone hits a minimum of 1 person. Some hit 3 or more. Some engineers never came back, some need therapy. We stop, and conductor can walk to check, but we call police asap. We get 3 days off, and the counselors call us daily. It sucks. it really sucks.
Sitting at home thinking about a traumatic event for weeks doesn't help one get over it. I am a tow truck driver. I have seen bad things and it never bothered me except for one event that bothered me badly. Several days it was all I could think of, until somebody made me laugh. I realized I hadn't laughed in several days, and it helped the situation immensely.
Thank you for that comment. What you do not see you do not have to cope with. During my first aid class the instructor told us that you should keep your kids away from accidents. even if that means that your first aid will be delayed. Traumas ruin lives for ever and applying procedures to minimize these is important.
I am a retired commercial captain and was qualified on numerous aircraft, including the B-737. It seems clear from the amount of damage to the nacelle that it was a substantial body strike, not a glancing blow. That means the aircraft was likely virtually or just touching down on the runway, about 1500' past the end, in the normal touchdown zone. The 737 flares readily and power has to come off to avoid floating, so the engines would have been unspooled if not at idle. I am also surmising it was a hand-flown landing in low-light, VFR conditions. Close-in, the pilot-flying's attention would have been divided between his airspeed indicator inside and the runway and, probably, runway edge landing assist lights of some kind. The pilot-not-flying, likewise, would have been dividing his attention, monitoring inside and out. When cleared to land, the crew will confirm for aircraft traffic ahead to be exiting the runway as well as any taxiing crossing traffic. You can see the runway and aircraft-size objects, not anything much smaller. Even a pickup-sized vehicle down the runway might not be noticed unless moving. You're just confirming the runway is or will be clear of large objects and safe for your landing. In a visual landing, the pilot's focus is primarily on the first part of the runway, assessing the sink rate by eye and for the point at which to reduce power and begin flaring. Attention remains focused in the area a few hundred feet just ahead of the aircraft until touchdown and to maintain alignment on the centerline. Only when slowing, with engines reversed, does the pilot-flying then look down the runway to assess where he can best exit onto a taxiway. In the best of circumstances, which this was not, a person would be very difficult to see until fairly close. We don't know, maybe the pilots do, what that person was doing--walking, running, standing still; crossing or going down the runway. He almost certainly didn't materialize as a person/object until the plane was upon him. Remember, from as close as the end of the runway, he was still about five football fields away and, if his relative motion on the runway was slight and barring neon clothing, he would have blended right in. Lest anyone have the wrong impression, there is very little the crew could have done to laterally displace the aircraft and despite their feeling that they did...something. They may be reporting more what they wished they had been able to do. The wings must be kept level at that point. If in the process of touching down, they're still at high speed, possibly not even with the nosewheel down. In any event, they can swerve with the rudder pedals only very slightly and slowly if they are to maintain safe control of the aircraft. Their only real avoidance option would be a rejected landing--a go-around after or when touchdown cannot be avoided, and that, too, would have been too late. It takes long seconds for an engine to accelerate from idle and for the plane to react. Even if the individual was a little further down the runway, the optics would have made him hard to pick out or to avoid at speed. The voice tape seems to indicate that the crew was not aware that they had actually hit him, whether or not they were shocked by his unexpected appearance in passing. It is highly unlikely anyone else on the aircraft would have seen anything they could be sure of and it would have been just one more brief thump among that of touchdown, tire rumble, brakes, and reversers. The unfortunate pilots would have been informed of the obvious nacelle damage by the ground crew, immediately upon arriving at the gate, so confirmation from the tower by phone would not have come as a surprise. It is a mystery. Pretty dramatic, and difficult, for a suicide with so many cars, trains, and overpasses available and newsworthy. A bad end for all.
Thank you for addressing something that's puzzling me, which is the damage to both the nacelle area AND the side of the engine. How could both areas (at 90 degrees to one another) be the result of the same strike? The damage to the nacelle seems about what one would expect if the aircraft struck something, or someone, head-on (though how the object avoided being ingested is beyond me. Maybe it was and the airline isn't mentioning that fact out of discretion), but honestly, the damage to the side of the engine looks like someone ran a vehicle into it....curious.
@@CaesarInVa Just guessing myself, but now that you mention it it's possible the aircraft struck the victim head on, a portion of the victim's body...arm or something... was taken into the intake, twisted around and somehow the blow threw the victim against the side. Stranger things have happened. As always, the investigators will sort it out.
I knew a guy who was Opps at a major international airport. We were having a meeting at the airport a few years ago when he told the story about doing a full length runway check in the middle of the night (at fairly high speed) when suddenly he came upon a guy riding a 10 speed bicycle down the centerline of the runway. He said the only thing he could think of was to try and steer the guy towards the military base and have the military guards help take the rider down, which is exactly what happened. Turns out the guy was somewhat lost and confused and ended up on the runway. This happened about 30 years ago so it was before all the high security fences were in place. Still scary and totally unexpected to find a random person on any runway...
Juan your reporting was better than the local news KXAN here in Austin. They reported there was an incident (got the hype) and never followed up with anything meaningful. Thanks Juan.
Wikipedia lists one additional fatality with Southwest: On 11 August 2000 a 19-year-old Johnathan Burton died on SWA1763. From reports that the news had compiled afterwards, it looks like Burton was having a psychotic break. He started acting weird, taking drinks from the cart before he was served, rummaging through the galley for peanuts, and ultimately screaming "Somebody needs to fly this plane," before kicking the cockpit door. Crew and passengers got him to sit down, but in an exit row. After somebody said he was going for the handle, he was again physically restrained. He again calmed down. But on final descent, he started fighting with people. Some other passengers fought back, and attempted to restrain him. They did restrain him, but witnesses said one guy in particular kept on fighting him, and were "out of control". When police boarded the plane, one of the passengers restraining him was standing on his throat, and he was unconscious and badly beaten. He died in the hospital later that night. The medical examiner ruled he died by suffocation, and that his death was a homicide. However, the US Attorney Paul W. Warner declined to prosecute, saying the passengers had acted in self-defense. This incident isn't in the Aviation Safety Network database for some reason, but Time and ABC News have pretty good write-ups.
Juan, You have Talent. One of the greatest arm chair quarterbacks with a you tube channel ever. We appreciate your after action reports. It almost like you were right there, Keep up the great work Scooter!
It would take me two minutes, maximum, to hop the fence and stand on the centerline of runway 11 at MSY. People think these are high security areas (and they ought to be), but in fact they really are not.
Credit to YOU for keeping us up to date. I noticed Mentour Pilot also addressed this-as he flies 737 aircraft. Thanks Juan for the caring, informative response.
AMTRAC hit a trespasser here a few weeks ago. The crew had to go thru NTSB protocols and passengers waited till they brought another crew in from Denver. I was out in the desert today driving by GJT's 10ft fence and it reminded me that in Wyoming its not uncommon to see Caution, antelope may be on runway, on charts.
Dear Juan, I have some experience with this situation in part because of my X-brother-in- law ... he was diagnosed with skitsopheinia and was a violent self distructive type. His second attempt to remove himself was at LAX back in the mid to late 80's ... He suffered many years and the indicators and lead-in's to an epasode were cookie cutter stamped-out .... He would chemically crash through his medications (they felt like they weren't working any more ... he would feel ants crawling on his skin).. {his words} then he'd get thermally overheated .. profuce sweating ... Off would come his clothes ... Any who he ended up @ LAX buck naked and on one of the 4 runways there cookoo-for-cocoa puffs... Trying to catch a 747 "bare handed" he nearly succeded the pilot saw him in enough time to keep the nose wheel up over his head to miss him ... It took 6 airport security guys to arrest him post incadent .... 5 times in all finally he ended up 12 years later getting hit by an 18 wheeler on US 101 in Santa Maria CA. This might just help explaining why this fellow was where he was and it's my hope we all can be vigilant and More involved with others that need our attention and love that walk in our midst .... Be safe ... happy landings Ed in Phoenix writes
Edward Kie...and he ended up creating nightmares for another person the rest of their life. Not fair, your brother-in-law should have been put away. How do I know..when I was a little kid I witnessed someone burning to death in his truck.
Blaze Williams Right. There's nowhere to "put them away" anymore. Considering that state hospitals were for the mentally ill, people dumped unwanted relatives in them who were mentally but not physically sound.
Sophie: ACLU lawyer Ennis, who argued civil rights cases to the Supreme Court, argued abolition of all involuntary psychiatric hospitalizations and the ACLU was a major contributor of shutting down of said hospitals because the mentally ill did not know they were ill and that the act violated their civil rights.
Read about identity of the South West incident individual. He was student of some university in Texas. Social media profiles as well. Now, couldn't find those web links where the info was written
As a commercial truck driver, I can tell you we are trained to steer strait and mash the accelerator to the floor. A heavy loaded truck is more like to go straight and stay upright if this is the driver's reaction. Swerving results in loss of control, and loss of control results in loss of life and millions of dollars in damage.
Be that as it may, I still recall my appreciation of a truck driver who swerved off the freeway and onto the median strip to avoid a woman who had stopped her car just over the crest of a hill in the fast lane. (The road had a weird slippery substance on it that made one's car feel as if it were aquaplaning, so I guess she was scared.) That man chose to endanger himself rather than kill or injure her. Fortunately, he was able safely to drive back onto the freeway after he passed her car.
Assuming the person on the runway was intentionally trespassing in a restricted area, I would make the case he or she struck the airplane rather than the other way around.
@@Steyr6500 they have a second set of runway which is farther away from the terminal and easily can be out there without being spotted. Also even though it is near the downtown area it is quite rural out there. The jail is near the airport along with a Travis County probation treatment community called Smart.
I feel sorry for the aircrew. Persons on runway is not to be expected. It's obvious anyone airside without authorisation are acting illegally and are accountable for the outcome.
Why have we not heard about this on any of the Media channels? Something like this would surely be news worthy. Thanks for the info Juan. Keep up the good reporting.
@@jay_321 you can legitimately not hear ( or pay attention to) a train until it's on you, especially faster ones on smooth tracks, a plane, however, is a whole other kind of story
Juan, Great channel watch every video. Sorry, you are being demonetized by RUclips they are nuts! I watch you being a pilot that knows what is going on in a cockpit and not the overpaid, botoxed face, scrip reader on the drive-by media. I cringe every time I hear these know nothing reporters call the apron the tarmac. Keep up the great work you do!!!
I've done electrical work on locos at GE in north FTW an they tell you don't stand on the tracks in the test section because you won't hear it till its too late kinda scary how something so big is so quite .
As a class 1 engineer I will tell you we get 3 days off paid and counseling if you so desire, more time if it’s needed based on how you feel. Unfortunately it’s a fairly common situation.
Thanks for posting Juan.Horrendous for all involved.Condolences also to family & friends of this guy. Both youself and mentour pilot have done very good videos on this one.
As a locomotive engineer for the last 25 years, I have encountered those incidents. It is a sickening helpless feeling because you know this is going to end badly for the individual or occupants of a vehicle. Average train weight and speed can take up to a mile to stop. Only option is to make an emergency brake application.
Would you do another report on Boeing. 2020 orders. Will there ever be a need for the 737 Max now with reduced usage. What percentage of airline traffic do you think will recover in one year? Do you think that Boeing should have been bailed out as they cut their own throats with the 737 Max?
Pretty sad for the flight crews,who will carry this incident with them from now on. I hope they will not allow the stigma of being weak prevent them from getting any help they might need in dealing with this unfortunate incident.
Thank you for showing the fly over in Grass Valley, CA. I didn't see the fly over of the Blue Angles and Thunderbirds at Atlanta Georgia because I am about 20 miles north of their flight plan but Boy, did I hear them. What a ROAR! It was absolutely thrilling instilling such pride.
So true what you say about compartimentalizing. Even with this situation, I'm happy every time I'm back in the cockpit, and shrug all of the negative things and worries off when I'm in there. Blue skies friend.
I listened to a clip of the ATC conversation yesterday, but didn't realize it had just happened...... So very sad for all involved; the victims family, the crew, and passengers.
All train drivers have stories but I've never heard of such an incident with an airliner. Is there any standard procedure? Immediately relieved of duty and counseling offered?
Am I correct that the engine that exploded on SW killed a woman in the cabin on the aisle seat? Didn't think you mentioned that one. Landing a Piper Navajo by myself to pick up customers I had three deer dart out in front of me. Just as I was touching down and lowered the nose to the pavement the first one made it past me in front, the second one impacted the nose wheel and the third deer made it behind me. Luckily the one I hit was the smallest of the three and did minimal damage to the nose gear and doors. Just as it was right on the impact path I pulled the nose up gently and that is what saved the nose cone. That is why the little guy only impacted the nose gear. Consequently I had to tell the owner and his passengers that we were not using the plane that day until it was jacked up and the gear was completely checked out.
What about the overrun at Hollywood Burbank a couple of decades ago? As I remember there were some injuries. The pilots were running late and felt a lot of pressure to do a quick turn around. They came in hot and didn't touchdown till just past the other runway and ended up in the gas station across the street on Hollywood Way after going through the blast barrier. But I'm positive there were injuries.
LOL.... Are we allowed to laugh at Juan?!?! Or with Juan?!?! Notice his "goggle" tan. Been riding again! I wished I was there with you. I used to have family in your area. Great outdoors! Kudos from Nashville!
I listened to the ATC conversation on another RUclips channel and the pilots never said anything about hitting a person. All they said was, they saw someone on the runway. I am guessing they didn't want it recorded on the ATC conversation tapes.
I must have listened to the same one and I wanted to know the rest of the story. So far the name of the person and details aren't available. I wonder if a passenger would have seen this if they were sitting in the right spot.
My dad is a captain for American on the 737-800. He said even when you initiate a go-around at 50 feet agl, you're probably still going to touch the runway. You can't quickly change the direction of that much weight moving at that high of a speed. A V-REF speed of 130 kts is about 220 feet per second.
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As a train engineer for 20 years I had six incidents of striking trespassers and saw the results of many more. It is very traumatic and you tend to blame yourself at first. I still can recall each incident like it happened yesterday. You usually take a few days off afterwards and you can seek counseling. Some engineers go on permanent disability. I am retired now. Thanks Juan
I had a relative who was a UP engineer. He struck a couple in a stalled car once, and another girl who was walking down the tracks with headphones in. You never get over it.
My brother is an engineer with BNSF. I found it interesting you are taught to speed up in those situations to avoid derailing the train.
MojaveDan Your brother is pulling your leg. I was a BNSF engineer for 20 years and nobody is taught that....it’s ridiculous. Besides, trains don’t speed up any faster than they slow down.
MojaveDan Imagine you were operating a train, came around a curve and saw a carload of kids stuck on the tracks ahead of you. You’re telling me that you would try to speed up instead of doing everything in your powers to stop or at least slow your train. I’d like to see you explain that to the investigators....and there will be investigators. I’m offended that you would even suggest such a stupid idea.
@@ejh4isu My wife and I ride bikes on the greenway in our small town. We often encounter people with headphones or earbuds in, head down texting or playing games or whatever. I always call them future victims. Victims of their own stupidity, that is.
We had bells on the bikes, but they were too soft and polite so I put squeeze bulb horns on them and still sometimes they don't hear them. The worst ones are the ones that reach the end of their walk or jog and suddenly do a U-turn without looking. I've nearly crashed trying to get stopped before taking them out on more than one occasion. Hopefully I scared the shtuff out of them badly enough that they think about it next time, but I doubt it.
This should in NO WAY be called a Southwest Airlines incident, it should be called an Austin-Bergstrom International Airport incident.
Came here to say exactly this, the incident had nothing to do with Southwest. Should not be counted against the airline.
Absolutely, Southwest just happened to be flying in these difficult times and maintain some ops while other airlines went belly up. It's all on the airport perimeter security.
Why? It has *everything* to do with Southwest Airlines. It was a Southwest Airlines flight. It's a name, not a verdict...
Very good point. It could have happened to anyone.
Agreed
And of course, the steering on trains is notoriously stiff.
Reminds me of a story a train engineer told me once: After a collision between his train and a car, the driver of the car told the police that the train swerved and hit her. So the engineer told the officer "Come up into the cab of the locomotive. If you find a steering wheel, I'll take the blame for the accident."
@@murphsmodels8853 A friend of mine once wisely looked both ways at a crossing, made a few wise and knowing gestures, and said "a train just came through here". I asked him how he knew and he said "I can tell by the tracks" :D
Good one
We were on an excursion train once. The engine was crossing a road to hook up at what would be the front of the train for the return journey. A cop car coming to the crossing suddenly puts his lights on and shoots across in front of the engine. He shut his lights off a block on the other side. I wonder what good he thought those lights would do him?
haha
I was a Railroad Tower operator for a long time. I witnessed a couple of pedestrian strikes and had to deal with many more while on duty. The Engineers did not usually get over the incidents very fast, some were scarred for life.
@Logan Adams WTF dude
@vonmazur1 you are so right. It is certainly a sad event, but the engineers are usually very upset by the whole experience and carry that feeling of forced helplessness with them for a long time.
My grandpa once talked to an engineer and he said that the one thing he never wanted to ever happen was hit someone because there’s nothing they can do about it
A train conductor told me there are 2 victims. The person struck and the engineer.
Nick Laurenson really??? You have another explanation??
Thanks for the update on this sad news Juan. Your professionalism and compassion when dealing with sensitive and tragic incidents like this is truly comforting. Take good care and see you here!
Great Juan! I just released a video on the same incident. Always great to see your take on it as well.
Stay safe and healthy my friend.
johnmaer ah, so who decides what is candid and unbiased? You?
What do you know about how much “skin in the game” we have?
I have been fired once already this year and managed to hold onto my employment by a thread of luck because my base didn’t close. Many of my colleagues wasn’t that lucky.
Now we are facing another huge crisis and the likes of Juan is going out of his way to use his experience in order to explain what’s going on to the wise public. And you give him slack for that?
What “truth” is it exactly that you would you like to hear?
@@MentourPilot surprised that you replied to a troll.
@@johnmaer what do you mean? What bias do they take? What cover up do they make? Can you make it more clear? Your comment is hard for me to understand. Maybe it is just me, so I would appreciate if you clear up your points.
@@johnmaer air crash reports are available publicly. From many institutions and organisations around the worlds. Also statistics contradicts with a a lot of your points about air safety. The fact is driving a car and riding a motorcycle are far more dangerous than air travel. The only thing that safer are probably high speed trains. Where accidents can be counted by fingers. Since these studies and reports are available publicly. You can read them by yourself. No need to take my words for it.
@@johnmaer why don't you write your book. Notify us when you're done. So that others have more insight to what you've been saying.
Mr. Brown, I am currently working as a locomotive engineer for a Class 1 Railroad in the North East. In my 26 yrs.of operating a locomotive I’ve been one of the lucky ones when it comes to accidents with trespassers. I’ve only had 1 unfortunate experience ,many others in the industry have experienced multiple fatalities. There is literally nothing we can do to avoid a encounter with a person that is trespassing for what ever reason, unless we are notified 2 miles or more ahead of time to come to a complete stop. Most of the time we are notified by the train dispatcher of a vehicle hung up on the tracks in which we can stop ahead of time. But with people it’s a bit different. You can be informed ahead of time of a trespasser walking on or near the tracks by the Dispatcher or another train crew. The standard response to such alerts is to reduce your speed and sounding of the horn until the intentions of that person are realized, most get out of the way some don’t. A warning from us is usually all it takes.
But there is no quick way to stop to avoid conflict. T38’s 👍🇺🇸
I enjoy your channel ! Keep up the great work.
I watched it on VAS last night and was waiting for your take on it. Thank you for the explanation re the low light and what the pilot could have done or not done.
I really feel for the pilots and crew, and RIP to the soul that wound up in harms way.
Railroad engineer here from Germany - „only“ hit one person after 14 years of running freight trains - the average is about one in ten years here. The procedure here is you obviously stop as fast as you can (which can be about 1000 meters braking distance) and you get relieved by another colleque at the spot after the police is done. Usually you stay home for a couple of weeks and it’s back to business. Sadly there are engineers that get PTSD and are unable to work in again. please stay off the tracks guys ;-)
All you can do is sound the horn, right? Here in the UK a track worker is struck by a train about once a year. Drivers are supposed to sound their horn on seeing anyone near the track, and the person should acknowledge hearing the horn by raising their hand. Also track maintenance teams will have a nominated "lookout" person to warn them of oncoming trains (most accidents seem to happen when engineers are walking between sites, when they might be separated from the lookout)
Like at airports, the main prevention strategy is proper communication and making sure trains and people don't come close to each other in the first place. This tragic example from a couple of years ago highlights poor management by engineering contractors as a key lesson assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d261143e5274a592254abbf/R072019_190711_Stoats_Nest_Junction.pdf
rip stobe the hobo
My father and a friend were struck by a freight train at a crossing; it was a foggy morning. I have no idea if the train sounded its horn. It happened in 1951, I think. My dad was only 19 years old, and a passenger. He and the driver were pretty banged up; my dad lost his spleen. Both guys survived, or I wouldn't be here.😉
My grandfather was a motor man on the NYC Subway. He hit 9 jumpers. Two on the same day
Listened to the audio on VASAviation a few days ago. You could tell those boys were rattled a bit. So tragic for all.
Thank you Juan for your hard work in all these videos. Hope you and your family are well these days!
Hi Juan, I’ve been a locomotive engineer for 25 years, and unfortunately I’ve been involved with 4 fatalities. We’re pretty helpless in these situations, especially suicides which were the results of the fatalities I’ve had. All you can do is turn your head and wait for the sound of the impact. Even though we don’t know the individuals, there is still the feeling of loss, but we don’t have the capability to swerve around the impending situation. With all that has happened, I certainly have empathy for the crew and everyone involved.
Since you asked; I was a RR engineer in a past life: There was NO way to avoid a crash in a train. You would dump the air and lock all the brakes, but it take up to a mile to stop a train at speed.
Man... by "dumping the air" it must be an engineer's most desperate effort to try stopping so much kinetic energy! I wonder if by doing that, you're sacrificing all the wheels and maybe even a good stretch of the track as well...
BatGoat I've watched the videos on Crime Scene Cleaners, so I have a tiny inkling of what goes on. The worst one I saw was a veteran who died of suicide and no one noticed for a very long time.
@@batgoat28 you must've done a past life regression through hypnosis... if so, let me know. Ive done the same
Speaking as a locomotive engineer. Whenever you come across a stopped object on the tracks at almost any speed with any length of train behind you the stopping distance varies. Obviously you would want to try to avoid any obstruction however with a 3000 foot train it will almost always take a quarter mile to a mile long to stop at full service brake application (max brakes). And just a little less if you were to dump it (emergency brakes) so as for us there’s not much you can do unless the object is about a mile away and even then it’s too late most of the time. Speaking from experience I’ve hit 2 atvs (at different times yet very close to the same exact location) and 1 vehicle. All 4 people in all of the accidents survived thank God! It’s a scary world out there in the transportation industry, be safe!
Would applying emergency brakes be something that you wouldn't want to do, unless you really had to? For example potential damage to the train/tracks, etc.
As a locomotive engineer, I've struck three pedestrians, all fatalities. A normal response is to apply the emergency brake, and that's basically all you can do. The train is stopped and is not moved again until all the authorities have arrived and completed their reports and investigation. Generally, the crew is relieved and a new crew takes the train to the destination. This normally takes 2.5 - 4 hours.
1990s Railfan god be with you
I knew a person who deliberately stepped in front of a high speed train as it passed through a local station. Nothing you can do, except wonder about the level of desperation such people must feel, and mourn their passing. A sad situation for the captain and first officer of this Southwest flight, but no blame can attach to them, or to the airline. If people want to end their lives, they will find a way.
I nearly was that person 3 years ago.
Yes, you're very far gone when you get into that state of mind. What saved me was the thought that my cat would starve if I didn't go home first and open the door so he could get out...
Got home and the cat must have noticed something was wrong because he snuggled up to me for several hours, wouldn't let me do anything. That calmed me down.
CaptainDuckman Cats know. I'm glad yours' was around.
@@jwenting Glad you cared enough about your cat in your nearly last moments to go take care of him
One of my weirdest parenting conversations to was tell my two teenage, bi-polar step-daughters “if you’re going to kill yourself remember ‘don’t involve anyone else and don’t make a mess”. So far they have heeded that advice.
@@axelknutt5065 Honestly, when people have told me kind of shit during my "dark times", it made me SO upset, that I literally wanted to do the direct opposite of that advice, just to spite the world even further, and cause even more anger and grief.
I'm more interested in who the individual was. Can't fault a big-ass plane for hitting something that small upon landing at dusk. Hopefully, the pilots recognize that it was a terrible situation but not their fault.
I live in Austin TX, also, man does bad news blow up fast.
Thank you Juan, I was hoping you'd cover this!
Thanks. You keep it grounded. You always do. For those of us fortunate to have gotten to your channel we are informed as best as you are able. I have zero to do with the aviation industry. Nevertheless I seek reliable resources who make the disciplined effort to acquire facts and report same. Juan, your contribution is the advantage of your training, experience and character. That's why I am a Patreon supporter.
PS love that chewy wanted to get whatever he needed and you respected your dog. That's American.
Anyone trespassing onto an active airport should expect maiming or death.
The trespasser is to blame, not the aircrew.
And if it was an airport employee that was killed, they must've had a serious lapse in judgment, with deadly consequences.
Agreed, unless the individual entered the runway from one of the ends, they would have definitely had a solid minute or two walking to the runway to realize the stupidity of what they were doing. The individual had to have been mentally compromised, or wanted to die exactly the way he did
I can’t even imagine what these pilots must be going through.....I’m in highway construction and I had a persons dog get off its leash and run directly in front of my truck, I had no time to react....I felt sick to my stomach and didn’t want to work the rest of the night....I had the dogs poor owner consoling me....🙏🏻
I just watched the VASAviation video on this incident. They did not let their audience know more about the person who was struck. Thank you for letting us know more of the details. Yes, apparently from their video, the pilot wanted to stop on the taxiway possibly to check on the situation. But ground control arrived on the scene, so the plane could continue to the gate.
I was a transit cop for a major SoCal rail agency, I've dealt my own share of trespasser strikes and the results are always not pretty. One of my proudest moments was when I possibly stopped a man from jumping in front of a train. He was spotted on CCTV hiding behind a transformer box near the tracks and my partner and I immediately made contact and escorted him off the mainline. He was from out of state, looked transient, and was rabbling off about being royalty. He was placed on a 5150 hold and I never saw him again.
God bless you. Maybe he managed to turn his life around after u gave it back to him.
Thanks Nora. It's a wonderful thing that you did.
Metrolink?
Thank you Juan for sharing your thoughts on this incident. I read about this a couple of days ago and have wondered about it.
I'd like to thank you also for your take on Southwest Airlines. This is the carrier that my wife and I frequently (use to) fly on out of Sac. It's reassuring to hear a commercial pilot share his/her thoughts. It gives us a good feeling.
God Bless you and your family, Chewy included.
To the victim of that tragic event, may you RIP. May God be with the crew of that aircraft.
Stan
As with our 12-9 on the NYC Subway, we average 150 a year. Most of them are suicides. Very few are by accidents, either falling in between cars or trespassing. The position and time of day he stood on that runway appears he knew exactly what he was doing. He was standing on a point of no return for him and the poor crew of that Jet. Totally a traumatizing experience. I bet you he was committing suicide.. A Typical New York City subway car are 40 ton and we drag 10 cars. 4000 to 4500 horsepower total per train set. At 40mph it take us 400 ft to stop in "Brakes In Emergency mode" (B.I.E.) that's with full pneumatic breaking and dynamic braking combined. When someone steps in front of our train and after we put train into emergency there's nothing that we could do but watch this horrifying event unfold in front of us and the clunking sound you would never forget. If there's any chance that u know this crew please tell them to take there time getting back on the road. Most of us still flinch going down the road years after our 12-9. You doing an outstanding job on your channel.
I was going to say suicide, but you said it so much better. 😣
Same here in South Africa, and a train has no ability to change direction, or stop fast. Even going at a little above walking pace the train will still take 100m to stop, as a driver found out driving past the boom to cross a guarded level crossing found out. Exception is the iron ore and coal trains, where stopping is a minimum of 16km from full speed.
Mandatory counselling after each incident, and you are pensioned off on full pension after 12-15 incidents, which is possible to reach in 2 years on some lines if you are unlucky.
Have known a few train drivers, and all of them have had this, even the one who spent his entire career in the shunting yards.
I agree, it probably was a suicide. I can't really see how it wouldn't be.
Not necessarily a suicide. Could have been a RUclipsr or photographer. I've done some pretty stupid stuff to get a good pic. Or, some idiot who watched Pushing Tin trying to replicate their stunt.
I've heard speculation that it was a suicide. With the damage to the inlet lip, and hearing that the pilot tried to maneuver to avoid the person, just imagine how close that person was to being ingested into the engine.
Nobody is saying that no part of the victim made it into the engine fan section, and it is probably best that nobody asks.
Is
At the landing speed, does the engine has enough power to suck in a human?
He wanted to go out with a bang
Xinfu Xia yes you can get sucked in at close to idle
@@xinfuxia3809 My brother works on the ramp; he said it can do that at idle.
A plane went down today, May 9, near Atlanta. The 2 occupants are in the hospital, both survived. Good luck, Juan.
cause of injury...corona virus
d. t. My layover is going to Atlanta
Outstanding video JB. As always, it’s reassuring to know that the aviation professionals remained calm & collected while performing their duties. I sure do miss those great guest appearances by Chewy
Rule in racing. Don't swerve, all you'll do is lose control and kill someone else.
I see a lot of crash videos of trucks trying to avoid colliding with a car that cuts in front and they crash into several "innocent" other drivers. Just hit the guy in front, you aren't getting away unscathed.
That's a once in a million pilot lifetimes event. Ain't no way any pilot will ever be able to prepare for something like this.
Yes pilots know this! My nephew is a Southwest pilot.
As a commercial truck driver, I can tell you we are trained to steer strait and mash the accelerator to the floor. A heavy loaded truck is more like to go straight and stay upright if this is the driver's reaction. Swerving results in loss of control, and loss of control results in loss of life and millions of dollars in damage.
This is why there can't be female bus/truck drivers. A woman will kill 80 ppl to avoid hitting a dog.
My father was an engineer for Grand Trunk - he hit 3 people while going from Michigan to Chicago. Absolutely cannot avoid hitting a person determined to be hit by a train sadly.
What chaps me is that the headlines invariably read: "Train Hits Pedestrian" when in reality it's obviously, "Man Steps in Front of Train". Don't blame the train, folks! :-/
Friend of mine is an train engineer. Long time ago, the first time someone walked on his track and it was over. That hurt him real bad and he took time off and got some help. He went back and I think it’s happened to him 4 or 5 times since. One was a mother with her children in a car. She left a suicide note. Damn shame. He’s still out there on the rails.
A friend and I was bike riding on a bike trail in Denver and the trail had 2 paths one went under the rails and the other went up to street level by the crossing, we stopped on top watching traffic before we where going to turn around and head back to the trail which we came when we watched a women in a Chevy Vega filled with kids turn off of Santa Fe Drive onto the street that crossed the rails with the gates down and a 100+ car coal train almost at the intersection only to be hit by the train, the car bunched a few times down the tracks only to be hit again three more times, needless to say no one survived the mother and her children never had a chance because she was in a hurry to get to the shopping mall 3 blocks away. As for the individual that incurred on the runway at Austin/Bergstrom airport either he was trying to commit suicide or just a plain moron walking in front of a landing airliner during landing. Not to speak I'll of the dead but I think he just won this year's Darwin Award.
@Christopher Rasmussen You should try to get him off the rails man. It's not safe.
@@Mash4096 Yeah. Get him off the rails before he goes off the rail..
@@cudathehawgjetfixer7520 Were you biking along the Platte River? South Santa Fe and a shopping mall (maybe the old CINDERELLA CITY MALL) come to mind. Must have been a horrific scene. Thanks for your comment! usmale49 in Denver
Omg that is so sad.
In a very strange coincidence, about a year ago I flew into ABIA and departed Austin on AMTRAK to Los Angeles. About dusk, the train hit an individual on the tracks in downtown New Braunfels, TX; a few miles SW of Austin. The train was stopped for 3 hours as the incident was investigated. I can't imagine how horrible the event was for the locomotive engineer.
When I was going to HS (I think), use to hang around with this kid three houses down from me - I didn't see him after a while and found out his Mom did the "suicide by Amtrak" just north of Hyde Park, NY. She piled brush up and squatted down behind it, at the next station, the conductor and engineer went to check for damage and found blood and flesh. When there's a will, there's a way, unfortunately.
Locomotive engineer 21years. I hit a car just after driver jumped out. Still messed me up. Everyone hits a minimum of 1 person. Some hit 3 or more. Some engineers never came back, some need therapy. We stop, and conductor can walk to check, but we call police asap. We get 3 days off, and the counselors call us daily. It sucks. it really sucks.
Sitting at home thinking about a traumatic event for weeks doesn't help one get over it. I am a tow truck driver. I have seen bad things and it never bothered me except for one event that bothered me badly. Several days it was all I could think of, until somebody made me laugh. I realized I hadn't laughed in several days, and it helped the situation immensely.
Thank you for that comment. What you do not see you do not have to cope with. During my first aid class the instructor told us that you should keep your kids away from accidents. even if that means that your first aid will be delayed. Traumas ruin lives for ever and applying procedures to minimize these is important.
I am a retired commercial captain and was qualified on numerous aircraft, including the B-737. It seems clear from the amount of damage to the nacelle that it was a substantial body strike, not a glancing blow. That means the aircraft was likely virtually or just touching down on the runway, about 1500' past the end, in the normal touchdown zone. The 737 flares readily and power has to come off to avoid floating, so the engines would have been unspooled if not at idle.
I am also surmising it was a hand-flown landing in low-light, VFR conditions. Close-in, the pilot-flying's attention would have been divided between his airspeed indicator inside and the runway and, probably, runway edge landing assist lights of some kind. The pilot-not-flying, likewise, would have been dividing his attention, monitoring inside and out.
When cleared to land, the crew will confirm for aircraft traffic ahead to be exiting the runway as well as any taxiing crossing traffic. You can see the runway and aircraft-size objects, not anything much smaller. Even a pickup-sized vehicle down the runway might not be noticed unless moving. You're just confirming the runway is or will be clear of large objects and safe for your landing.
In a visual landing, the pilot's focus is primarily on the first part of the runway, assessing the sink rate by eye and for the point at which to reduce power and begin flaring. Attention remains focused in the area a few hundred feet just ahead of the aircraft until touchdown and to maintain alignment on the centerline. Only when slowing, with engines reversed, does the pilot-flying then look down the runway to assess where he can best exit onto a taxiway.
In the best of circumstances, which this was not, a person would be very difficult to see until fairly close. We don't know, maybe the pilots do, what that person was doing--walking, running, standing still; crossing or going down the runway. He almost certainly didn't materialize as a person/object until the plane was upon him. Remember, from as close as the end of the runway, he was still about five football fields away and, if his relative motion on the runway was slight and barring neon clothing, he would have blended right in.
Lest anyone have the wrong impression, there is very little the crew could have done to laterally displace the aircraft and despite their feeling that they did...something. They may be reporting more what they wished they had been able to do. The wings must be kept level at that point. If in the process of touching down, they're still at high speed, possibly not even with the nosewheel down. In any event, they can swerve with the rudder pedals only very slightly and slowly if they are to maintain safe control of the aircraft. Their only real avoidance option would be a rejected landing--a go-around after or when touchdown cannot be avoided, and that, too, would have been too late. It takes long seconds for an engine to accelerate from idle and for the plane to react.
Even if the individual was a little further down the runway, the optics would have made him hard to pick out or to avoid at speed. The voice tape seems to indicate that the crew was not aware that they had actually hit him, whether or not they were shocked by his unexpected appearance in passing.
It is highly unlikely anyone else on the aircraft would have seen anything they could be sure of and it would have been just one more brief thump among that of touchdown, tire rumble, brakes, and reversers. The unfortunate pilots would have been informed of the obvious nacelle damage by the ground crew, immediately upon arriving at the gate, so confirmation from the tower by phone would not have come as a surprise.
It is a mystery. Pretty dramatic, and difficult, for a suicide with so many cars, trains, and overpasses available and newsworthy.
A bad end for all.
Excellent writeup!
Was this reply longer than the post itself?😴
Thank you for addressing something that's puzzling me, which is the damage to both the nacelle area AND the side of the engine. How could both areas (at 90 degrees to one another) be the result of the same strike? The damage to the nacelle seems about what one would expect if the aircraft struck something, or someone, head-on (though how the object avoided being ingested is beyond me. Maybe it was and the airline isn't mentioning that fact out of discretion), but honestly, the damage to the side of the engine looks like someone ran a vehicle into it....curious.
@@CaesarInVa Just guessing myself, but now that you mention it it's possible the aircraft struck the victim head on, a portion of the victim's body...arm or something... was taken into the intake, twisted around and somehow the blow threw the victim against the side. Stranger things have happened. As always, the investigators will sort it out.
@@CaesarInVa to me it looks like the engine cover just buckled from the initial nacelle hit
Informational! Thanks for the debrief. I'd just got back from a ferry trip that night (landed at KHYI) and this happened about an hour later. Crazy.
I knew a guy who was Opps at a major international airport. We were having a meeting at the airport a few years ago when he told the story about doing a full length runway check in the middle of the night (at fairly high speed) when suddenly he came upon a guy riding a 10 speed bicycle down the centerline of the runway. He said the only thing he could think of was to try and steer the guy towards the military base and have the military guards help take the rider down, which is exactly what happened. Turns out the guy was somewhat lost and confused and ended up on the runway. This happened about 30 years ago so it was before all the high security fences were in place. Still scary and totally unexpected to find a random person on any runway...
Juan your reporting was better than the local news KXAN here in Austin. They reported there was an incident (got the hype) and never followed up with anything meaningful. Thanks Juan.
Wikipedia lists one additional fatality with Southwest: On 11 August 2000 a 19-year-old Johnathan Burton died on SWA1763. From reports that the news had compiled afterwards, it looks like Burton was having a psychotic break. He started acting weird, taking drinks from the cart before he was served, rummaging through the galley for peanuts, and ultimately screaming "Somebody needs to fly this plane," before kicking the cockpit door. Crew and passengers got him to sit down, but in an exit row. After somebody said he was going for the handle, he was again physically restrained. He again calmed down. But on final descent, he started fighting with people. Some other passengers fought back, and attempted to restrain him. They did restrain him, but witnesses said one guy in particular kept on fighting him, and were "out of control". When police boarded the plane, one of the passengers restraining him was standing on his throat, and he was unconscious and badly beaten. He died in the hospital later that night. The medical examiner ruled he died by suffocation, and that his death was a homicide. However, the US Attorney Paul W. Warner declined to prosecute, saying the passengers had acted in self-defense.
This incident isn't in the Aviation Safety Network database for some reason, but Time and ABC News have pretty good write-ups.
That was before 9/11, so no security training or equipment to deal with this.
Juan,
You have Talent.
One of the greatest arm chair quarterbacks with a you tube channel ever.
We appreciate your after action reports.
It almost like you were right there,
Keep up the great work Scooter!
I can't begin to tell you how informative your chanel is and the manner in which you relay it is outstanding thank you
Great video as usual! Thanks for explaining things like you do. Stay safe and stay strong. 💪🏼🤙🏼
What would make a guy chose to hang out in the path of an airliner landing? Thanks Juan.
@@flagmichael I hear you Michael, sad.
The media will possibly try to chalk this up to the COVID virus and the shutdown causing despair.
@@bobrenner7213 That's why we hang out over Bob. reality counts. Not that the pandemic is easy but it's just a trigger I think.
Michael F. Tommey You are right, no support from a useless Democrat run House of Reps. Glad we have a great president.
Drugs. Booze. Whatever.
Sad watching this, but I wanted your take on this, Juan. Thanks for posting
Amen!🙏🙏Thank you Captan
The person was either suicidal, or fatally confused. Either way, sneaking onto a runway is no mean feat. There had to be some cognition involved.
It's been easier of late unfortunately because there is markedly less activity around the airports due to COVID
Maybe he somehow thought he could take a shortcut across the runway since there is so little air traffic.
Biden ?
Vinny Bulldog LMAO
It would take me two minutes, maximum, to hop the fence and stand on the centerline of runway 11 at MSY. People think these are high security areas (and they ought to be), but in fact they really are not.
Credit to YOU for keeping us up to date. I noticed Mentour Pilot also addressed this-as he flies 737 aircraft. Thanks Juan for the caring, informative response.
Thank you very Juan for filling us in with the details ..
Well done. Perfect explanation. I felt for this pilot as I listened to the VAS recording.
On the ATC RUclips channel they show a picture of the damaged engine. Was pretty bad
More impressive than the damaged engine was the damaged body stuck in the nacelle
@@vidznstuff1 I feel sorry for the mechanic that had to do the repairs.
AMTRAC hit a trespasser here a few weeks ago. The crew had to go thru NTSB protocols and passengers waited till they brought another crew in from Denver. I was out in the desert today driving by GJT's 10ft fence and it reminded me that in Wyoming its not uncommon to see Caution, antelope may be on runway, on charts.
Very interesting take on this - appreciate the info, Juan!
Dear Juan, I have some experience with this situation in part because of my X-brother-in- law ... he was diagnosed with skitsopheinia and was a violent self distructive type. His second attempt to remove himself was at LAX back in the mid to late 80's ... He suffered many years and the indicators and lead-in's to an epasode were cookie cutter stamped-out .... He would chemically crash through his medications (they felt like they weren't working any more ... he would feel ants crawling on his skin).. {his words} then he'd get thermally overheated .. profuce sweating ... Off would come his clothes ... Any who he ended up @ LAX buck naked and on one of the 4 runways there cookoo-for-cocoa puffs... Trying to catch a 747 "bare handed" he nearly succeded the pilot saw him in enough time to keep the nose wheel up over his head to miss him ... It took 6 airport security guys to arrest him post incadent .... 5 times in all finally he ended up 12 years later getting hit by an 18 wheeler on US 101 in Santa Maria CA. This might just help explaining why this fellow was where he was and it's my hope we all can be vigilant and More involved with others that need our attention and love that walk in our midst .... Be safe ... happy landings Ed in Phoenix writes
Edward Kie...and he ended up creating nightmares for another person the rest of their life. Not fair, your brother-in-law should have been put away. How do I know..when I was a little kid I witnessed someone burning to death in his truck.
Ed Kie. I guess some people are just plain self destructive.
President Reagan closed the state mental hospitals, so unless the family has money, there are few options.
Blaze Williams Right. There's nowhere to "put them away" anymore. Considering that state hospitals were for the mentally ill, people dumped unwanted relatives in them who were mentally but not physically sound.
Sophie: ACLU lawyer Ennis, who argued civil rights cases to the Supreme Court, argued abolition of all involuntary psychiatric hospitalizations and the ACLU was a major contributor of shutting down of said hospitals because the mentally ill did not know they were ill and that the act violated their civil rights.
Read about identity of the South West incident individual. He was student of some university in Texas. Social media profiles as well. Now, couldn't find those web links where the info was written
Thanks as always for the video Juan!
The arc conversation sounded like the pilot saw the individual, but didn’t realize he was hit till much later.
Thank you Juan. Our condolences.
As a commercial truck driver, I can tell you we are trained to steer strait and mash the accelerator to the floor. A heavy loaded truck is more like to go straight and stay upright if this is the driver's reaction. Swerving results in loss of control, and loss of control results in loss of life and millions of dollars in damage.
Be that as it may, I still recall my appreciation of a truck driver who swerved off the freeway and onto the median strip to avoid a woman who had stopped her car just over the crest of a hill in the fast lane. (The road had a weird slippery substance on it that made one's car feel as if it were aquaplaning, so I guess she was scared.) That man chose to endanger himself rather than kill or injure her. Fortunately, he was able safely to drive back onto the freeway after he passed her car.
Wow, thanks Juan, I hadn't heard about this. Condolences to the family.
Hello! Great work as always
Hope you are staying well!
Great stuff as always Juan & thanks as always. What's the background noise? It sounds like aircraft propellers to me
chainsaws, leafblowers, small planes.
Assuming the person on the runway was intentionally trespassing in a restricted area, I would make the case he or she struck the airplane rather than the other way around.
Anyone walking on a runway ether isn't right in the head... our has a death wish!!"
Sounds like a security issue as well...
Very curious how he managed to get onto the runway without being seen by other aircraft or any of the ground crew
@@Steyr6500 they have a second set of runway which is farther away from the terminal and easily can be out there without being spotted.
Also even though it is near the downtown area it is quite rural out there. The jail is near the airport along with a Travis County probation treatment community called Smart.
@@charcounsel4432 Excellent information, thank you!
I expected to see more about that, security at airports is supposed to be tight, after 9/11. Perhaps getting very sloppy... ?
Airports are huge. There’s not someone at every spot of the fence 24/7. It’s not lazy or a lack of security. Only takes a split second to hop a fence.
Thanks for touching on this incident.
thanks for the video blasting thru my speakers.
I feel sorry for the aircrew. Persons on runway is not to be expected.
It's obvious anyone airside without authorisation are acting illegally and are accountable for the outcome.
Why have we not heard about this on any of the Media channels? Something like this would surely be news worthy. Thanks for the info Juan. Keep up the good reporting.
Thanks Juan, sounds like a creative suicide, hard for a 737 lit up for landing to sneak up on any one.... Tradgic for all involved on so many levels.
Hard for locomotives hauling a mile of cars to sneak up on anyone and yet they do somehow--horns blowing all the way.
@@jay_321 you can legitimately not hear ( or pay attention to) a train until it's on you, especially faster ones on smooth tracks, a plane, however, is a whole other kind of story
17R at AUS, one of my first approaches to mins as a new FO! Prayers for the person struck
Thanks Juan, Always a pleasure to watch your videos, greeting from GRAND CAYMAN
Juan, Great channel watch every video. Sorry, you are being demonetized by RUclips they are nuts! I watch you being a pilot that knows what is going on in a cockpit and not the overpaid, botoxed face, scrip reader on the drive-by media. I cringe every time I hear these know nothing reporters call the apron the tarmac.
Keep up the great work you do!!!
I've done electrical work on locos at GE in north FTW an they tell you don't stand on the tracks in the test section because you won't hear it till its too late kinda scary how something so big is so quite .
Maybe Chewy can make a cameo in the next video. Excellent info as always. Thx
As a class 1 engineer I will tell you we get 3 days off paid and counseling if you so desire, more time if it’s needed based on how you feel. Unfortunately it’s a fairly common situation.
I'm a bit surprised that mental health counseling isn't mandatory after an incident...
Dale Zapple I agree, unfortunately it becomes common place.
Fantastic report,,, You the man Juan !
Just joined you on Patreon, JB. Sorry to hear RUclips are being such jerks. Thank god we have another avenue to you because you rock!
Thanks for posting Juan.Horrendous for all involved.Condolences also to family & friends of this guy.
Both youself and mentour pilot have done very good videos on this one.
As a locomotive engineer for the last 25 years, I have encountered those incidents. It is a sickening helpless feeling because you know this is going to end badly for the individual or occupants of a vehicle. Average train weight and speed can take up to a mile to stop. Only option is to make an emergency brake application.
Would you do another report on Boeing. 2020 orders. Will there ever be a need for the 737 Max now with reduced usage. What percentage of airline traffic do you think will recover in one year? Do you think that Boeing should have been bailed out as they cut their own throats with the 737 Max?
The 1st thing that entered my mind was why was someone on the runway?
The first thing that entered the pedestrians mind was the engine.
@@lightningdemolition1964 might have that backward.
Pretty sad for the flight crews,who will carry this incident with them from now on. I hope they will not allow the stigma of being weak prevent them from getting any help they might need in dealing with this unfortunate incident.
Thanks Juan for this good, factual report!
Very tough situation for the pilots
Thank you for showing the fly over in Grass Valley, CA. I didn't see the fly over of the Blue Angles and Thunderbirds at Atlanta Georgia because I am about 20 miles north of their flight plan but Boy, did I hear them. What a ROAR! It was absolutely thrilling instilling such pride.
@Judy Cook - cool surname, lass ! 😎
@@mikecook7530 It takes one to know one! 😎 😎
It was loud here too!
thanks for the information jb, more learned here
So true what you say about compartimentalizing. Even with this situation, I'm happy every time I'm back in the cockpit, and shrug all of the negative things and worries off when I'm in there. Blue skies friend.
Was looking forward to seeing Chewy 🤣🤣
Cool name.
Thank you. Very clear presentation.
Can you explain why the b52 crashed at fairfield airport several years ago if topics slow👍🏻
Chewy got monetized by ads at the end!!
I listened to a clip of the ATC conversation yesterday, but didn't realize it had just happened...... So very sad for all involved; the victims family, the crew, and passengers.
All train drivers have stories but I've never heard of such an incident with an airliner. Is there any standard procedure? Immediately relieved of duty and counseling offered?
I was surprised to how much damage he did to the aircraft!Thanks for the report,Jaun.
I hit a bird with my right main mid flare in a 172. I still think about that bird, poor guy 😭
I can relate bud
Am I correct that the engine that exploded on SW killed a woman in the cabin on the aisle seat? Didn't think you mentioned that one.
Landing a Piper Navajo by myself to pick up customers I had three deer dart out in front of me. Just as I was touching down and lowered the nose to the pavement the first one made it past me in front, the second one impacted the nose wheel and the third deer made it behind me. Luckily the one I hit was the smallest of the three and did minimal damage to the nose gear and doors. Just as it was right on the impact path I pulled the nose up gently and that is what saved the nose cone. That is why the little guy only impacted the nose gear. Consequently I had to tell the owner and his passengers that we were not using the plane that day until it was jacked up and the gear was completely checked out.
Why on earth would utube demonitize this.
What about the overrun at Hollywood Burbank a couple of decades ago? As I remember there were some injuries. The pilots were running late and felt a lot of pressure to do a quick turn around. They came in hot and didn't touchdown till just past the other runway and ended up in the gas station across the street on Hollywood Way after going through the blast barrier. But I'm positive there were injuries.
LOL.... Are we allowed to laugh at Juan?!?! Or with Juan?!?! Notice his "goggle" tan. Been riding again! I wished I was there with you. I used to have family in your area. Great outdoors!
Kudos from Nashville!
I listened to the ATC conversation on another RUclips channel and the pilots never said anything about hitting a person. All they said was, they saw someone on the runway. I am guessing they didn't want it recorded on the ATC conversation tapes.
I must have listened to the same one and I wanted to know the rest of the story. So far the name of the person and details aren't available. I wonder if a passenger would have seen this if they were sitting in the right spot.
My dad is a captain for American on the 737-800. He said even when you initiate a go-around at 50 feet agl, you're probably still going to touch the runway.
You can't quickly change the direction of that much weight moving at that high of a speed. A V-REF speed of 130 kts is about 220 feet per second.
Has it been reported yet who the person was, or why they were on the runway?