My actual experience Also in my experience, you also tend to make puns they wouldn't because you can (more easily) see connections between words since you've spent *so much time* actually drilling them into your head instead of picking them up naturally as you grow up
In my experience most people might be said to be around C1 in their first language but C2 is definitely not an automatic assumption - even in allegedly educated adults. That sophistication of usage, the breadth and the ability to synthesise, contextualise and adapt is high level language use that many people simply never attain.
I doubt getting a C2 in short time is possible. In my case, I started studying Spanish when I was 17, and obtained my DELE C2 when I was 21. At that point I had been working with colleagues from Spain for 2 years, and my work life was entirely in Spanish. The exam was hard - honestly I think I just passed because I told the examiner, when he asked me to talk about alternative medicine: “Just remember, this is a language exam, I have no idea what I will be saying from this point on, so don’t try any of them.” I heard the proctor/grader stifle a laugh. I knew I was going to at least pass at that point. And yes - I got real good at Spanish. But learning other languages is harder in a way, because I have to learn how to…. Act in, say, Basque. I live in Spain now, and am in the Basque Country. Unfortunately, I’m ironically surrounded by people who don’t speak Basque, so I can’t update my database. Have been stuck at A2 since (the grammar is easy, seriously).
I remember being at a summer camp with a couple of Spanish boys as a teenager. Both were very nice, humble, and polite, with one clearly a little more outgoing and the other more reserved. Neither were totally fluent, but both spoke well enough that it was pretty easy to hold a conversation. On the last day, the more reserved one told me that he kind of hated the more outgoing one, saying that “when he speaks English he’s a really nice guy, but when he speaks Spanish he’s an arrogant asshole jock”. That idea of someone being a totally different person when communicating in another language has stuck with me since.
When you listed those requirements for C2, I was like, "yeah, no, I already can't do this in German, there's no way I'll ever reach that level in another language". I'm autistic and honestly, I just like collecting words and phrases, I like the way that tickles my brain, learning culture is exhausting.
Edit - I just saw your post further down the comments which expands on your point here about first languages. Thanks! @@CreolePolyglot Interesting, could you elucidate? I could presumably take the C2 exam for my native language and would either pass or fail. In what way would that result differ compared to someone who got the same result after recently learning the language?
Je dois admettre que ce dont vous parlez me correspond plus ou moins bien, particulièrement ce que vous avez dit au niveau de rapprendre comment faire du masking. A la base je suis anglophone autist mais ayant maintenant passé près de 9 ans en France, mon niveau de français a clairement amélioré, et bien que je ne fasse pas encore un assessment de langue, je dirais que mon niveau est bon. Je n’ai pas trop de difficulté de dire que je suis bilingue, bien que je fasse souvent la blague que le plus bilingue que je deviens le plus que je n’y crois plus. Je vis une grande partie de ma vie en français, mais j’ai toujours un peu de mal de comprendre faire exprès les blagues de seconde degré - un point de rigolo pour mes étudiants. Cependant je penses qu’il y a des choses oubliées de votre perspective, et je me permets d’en partager. Tout d’abord je crois que l’idée même de natif exige un purisme de production linguistique qui est impossible, même pour les natifs hors de la classe centrale ou prestigieuse. Donc le niveau C2 demande une forme d’intégration linguistique qui est afin impossible. Avant vous avez parlé du rôle des enfants dans l’évolution des langues, mais il me semble bien vrai que les marges entres les langues par les locuteurs hautement proficients vont aussi faire tourner cet évolution. Cet argument nous achemine vers le deuxième. Les langues occidentales résistes bien cet évolution a l’orgine de maîtres de la langue pas d’enfance. C’est quelque chose de vrai dans les langues et les dialects (vu que l’un est souvent l’autre celui devrait pas vous surprendre) soit-il le AAVE, soit-il le français maghrébin. Il y a les instituons comme L’Académie Française qui résiste directement ce fonctionnement de langue, ou comme les anglophone université qui le résiste en demandant le coût de peau de cul pour y assister. A l’avant-guard de cette situation sont les immigré.e.s, les autist.e.s, et ceux ou celles vu.e.s comme « outsider ». La notion demandée par un niveau C2 est en fait une préservation d’un identité qui n’existe pas dans un premier temps. En tant que linguistes, c’est à nous de déconstruire le concept, reconstruire une nouvelle idée, et de partager ce qui est en fait, de parler une autre langue. Donc, monsieur, je vous prie mes salutations les plus distinguées et je vous prie d’excuser mes erreurs. Merci beaucoup pour la vidéo, je les aime énormément. Ps. I know it’s used in the literature, but functioning language and Baron-Cohen are definitely on the out-of-date side of things for autism discussions.
Interesting points and agrees with a lot of my personal experience. I am autistic, but I spent a great deal of time and effort on learning social skills, humor, body language, and reading between the lines. I can confirm you have to relearn most of that in any foreign language, even though there is some overlap. It was easier to learn it in German than it was the first time in English. I still have a difficult time with sarcasm though in German (I understand it, but sometimes probably like 3 seconds later than I should). Also if I am tired I can't understand subtlety very well. I doubt my Dutch or Spanish are good enough to pick up on anything subtle. I couldn't replicate some of my masking behavior at first in German. And also the stutter I had came back for a while. I have been tested at C1 level in German, but that was like 10 years ago. I never bothered with anything higher. I doubt I could pass a C2 test though because I stopped caring about grammar after a while and I can't really remember the declension tables exactly anymore. You can hide that easily though with the local dialect where I live. But in a written test of standard German, no chance. I tend to only dip my toes in most languages though. I am probably A1 or A2 in a lot of languages, but don't usually try to learn it beyond that.
Within this conversation of cultural nuance and how it relates to language proficiency, it’s fascinating to think of the incredible diversity of language usage and how someone could exhibit C2 level skills in some cultural contexts but be completely lost in others. I learned French in the Ivory Coast, where the language is used to express culture in a completely different way than hexagonal France. After years living in Ivorian culture and coming to feel completely linguistically competent in the Ivorian context, it has taken me a long time to begin to understand the cultural implications of France and their linguistics, despite the fact that both are the same language. Also, people are complex and one will never be able to perfectly navigate every situation all the time, no matter the language. Keeping this in mind makes me excited to keep learning and growing.
The truth! I had to pass a national language test for my permit to stay in Europe which was so scary and felt like I was studying for the bar exam even though I love languages. Being in Europe, the whole game is so different than being in the US.
As a high-masking autistic woman, I have noticeable changes in my personality when speaking my 1st language (English) and my parents native language (which I spoke from infancy). I am less confident in language 2 and although I would consider myself around C1, I do not have the same scripts to rely on and am therefore more timid. I even see a difference when I am in Canada speaking to my parents’ friends in language 2 vs. When I am in their home country. In Canada, I can inter-splice with English and rely on translations of Canadian cultural scripts, which I can’t do in the motherland.
That's super interesting because I feel the exact opposite. I basically grew up in online spaces with mostly Brits and a few American kids, so while I don't know how to act around people in my L1, both my personality and character do a tremendous 180 as soon as the language switches. It's funny too considering that I've only gone abroad once, and that was when I was the most socially fluent despite years of face-to-face interactions in my L1. I suppose that a lack of interest in my own culture also factors in, who knows. Mad.
So, this is a fun one for me. I am listed in the video! The famous autistic person with a language special interest who can learn languages super fast but has social struggles irl. And I think you're both really onto something, and also sortof wrong? Lemme explain. Not all autistic people are the same, obviously. But I have noticed that a lot of us tend to head *into* our weak points and become experts. Because that's the thing about autism: either we understand something completely, or barely at all. Did I have to spend an entire childhood thinking deeply about people and their inner thoughts and lives and psychology and emotions to develop social skills? Yeah. Did I do it though? Also, yeah. I would say some autistic people are actually *excellent* at the stuff about inferences, register, picking up on the finer points of emotion and sociocultural nuances. And it's exactly those autistic people who are going to get into languages! My main problems with autism are basically 1) what the fuck is a body and how does one work??? I am deeply clumsy and not great at recognising my body's cues/sometimes it hides them, and 2) I cannot do many parallel processes at once. So our complex conversation that I'm handling sensitively becomes really hard if we're in a crowded bar and there's flashing lights, and 3) sensory overload, yikes. I'm preparing for my C1 German exam but frankly that one's in the bag, I just want to pass with an excellent mark, and I've lived in German, for 6 months now, and I notice I'm finally picking up social scripts much like I did in my first language - that is, half deliberately, half subconsciously, and with probably a great deal more interest and effort than others put in. The thing is, I also have ADHD. And I've noticed a *serious* crossover there - loads of ADHDers love and are great at languages. So I think again there we're seeing some overlap. I do think when I see "hyperpolyglots" like Steve Kaufmann, what I'm seeing is an ADHD person (maybe) with just loads of interest in language and little "staying power", who is therefore really happy to be B2 in many languages. And so there I think it's much likelier that those people are B2 and....unlikely that they've reached C2 in more than one language. I could pass the German C2 Exam in probably 6 months, but it'll take me 5 years to meet the requirements. I would say as an autistic person that at B2 - a really solid B2 - I felt far less conversational and competent than others in my class, or than I was apparently supposed to. I just....didn't know what to say, most of the time? I didn't have enough data to make leaps of inference when I was missing information for whatever reason, either because the person said a word I didn't know, because someone talked over three syllables, or whatever else, and even when I understood what was being said to me, I was often completely clueless about what an appropriate reply would be. If anything, I think it's more likely that an autistic person is really good if they say they can speak the language - provided they've not just been staying at home and reading books. Which we're typically amazing at. Because the problem with autism is not that we *can't* do these things, but that they all require so goddamn much processing power that we need either more time, or a calm environment, or - I'm really beginning to be sure - more baseline knowledge. I can't "wing it" for shit. And that's fine! Anyway. I can read all those things I'm supposed to. I just often don't know what to *do* with them, unless I have read or learned a useful response at some point - otherwise it takes too long to generate one for it to be socially useful. In that sense, I think increasingly that autistic people learn a second language more or less exactly like we learn our first, and it's therefore, you know, kindof a familiar path. Because this issue comes up with non-autistic people all the time: how they need to learn more consciously the polite phrases and behavioural rules that they just picked up as a child. I think it's exactly these sorts of autistic people who make their way onto language RUclips - and therefore while I end up agreeing with a large portion of this video, I end up disagreeing with the basic thesis statement. It's probably the ADHD that keeps these people jumping around from language to language, and therefore prevents them from going as deep as you need to for C2, not the autism. Also the fact that it's hard to live in that many different countries for long enough. Anyway! Just wanted to report in and tell you that, you know, hashtag not all autistic people. At least not all the time: catch me totally overloaded and stressed out and my interpersonal communication does indeed go to hell but, you know, I low-key defy the neurotypicals to say their communication is perfect in that kind of situation. Also on CEFR terms: I tend to feel like those definitions are....aspirational, and they try to teach skills in classes and test for things in the exam that will sort of get some of the way there. Literally no one in my C1 class met the definitions by half, not even at the end of their 4 months. And I don't think that's as much a mistake as, you know, a bit of hyperbole for effect - the effect being, to get across that C2 exam takers should have much finer reading, listening, and social interaction comprehension than C1 exam takers. I mean, maybe the report writers were autistic. ETA: also, man, C2 just takes years living in the country. It just.... that's just how it works. Sorry. Most Germans who speak English to me, with only one exception I've so far met, are definitely C1 at English, really great, and are basically constantly accidentally rude to me in English. And they have no idea. Awkward! I spend a lot of time redirecting back to German because at this point, I *promise* my German is better, dude, just don't....just stop trying, I know you think it's polite, but you just word for word translated some German light humour that comes across as a flat insult in English.
I agree there is an ableist issue with the C2 definition BUT autism isn’t a superpower, everyone who lives with or is related to someone on the spectrum can confirm this. C2 is about maximal levels of communication in a second language. It is correct and comprehensive enough to also capture the challenges for autism.
Hey, I just sat the C2 in Portuguese the day before yesterday! I'd link to the blog post where I describe the experience but I'm pretty sure I'd fall foul of your spam filter. Anyway, thanks for the timely video!
The only languages I can confidently say I'm C2 in are languages I've spoken since I was a really little kid and went to additional classes to further hone my skills. Two of those languages are pretty much the same save for some vocab and the written scripts. There's no shame in being C1, or even B2. If you learned English, you don't have to be able to fully comprehend Shakespeare. And if you learned Mandarin, you don't have to be able to give a nuanced lecture about The Romance of the Three Kingdoms. And like you keep saying, what's the point of flaunting fluency if you have no use for it? Learn languages because you have something you want from them. Whether it's to understand a culture, integrate yourself in a community, or get closer with someone. There are so many better reasons than just to say that you can do it.
I didn't know a lot of the things you said about C2, but it makes a lot of sense. English is my second language and I started learning it when I was around 7-8 years old. I also consumed a lot of media in English and I've always spent the majority of my time on the internet in American and other English-speaking spaces. That allowed me to learn the culture along with the language, which must've made the step from B2 to C2 a lot easier. A few years ago I took an IELTS test and I was certified as C2, though from what I learned in this video, I reckon you could still get that certification without necessarily being able to do all the things the CEFR guide mentions. Anyway, thanks for the video; I learned a lot!
honestly not really. i’m thinking about my own target language russian and the grammar implies so much meaning (6 grammatical cases which change the meaning of sentences) for a language like spanish if you weren’t good at subjunctive you also would not be able to understand the undertones of certain sentences because subjunctive can change the whole meaning of sentences unless you’re just mixing up commas and not using uppercase letters i imagine it to be very hard to
I'm on the spectrum, I wish I could learn another language again like I did English😭 Some of us "freaks of nature" are just built different and I'm jealous!
I would definitely say I'm probably C2 in English (but who knows I'm not going to take the test) but that's just because I've had extensive writing and speech instruction in both highschool and college combined with 20 years of communicating online with others. I definitely wouldn't be able to reach even near my level of English in another language unless I basically restarted my entire education in a second language which doesn't sound fun to me. I just want to watch some anime and meet some new friends.
I really like your content its well researched, often succinct and funny. What i will say though is generally and i mean generally, the autistic community dont love the 'super power' thing. Obviously not everyone feels this way and i cant speak for other people but my experience is that it either comes across as condescending or infantilising or dismmissive of the difficulties faced. There's also a whole thing of that people use it as a reason to treat us reasonably like humans because we have the 'special skill', rather than just treating us like humans and fairly because we are humans 😅. I personally don't mind it so much as 9/10 i know its not coming from a bad place , but i know its not a term people feel is helpful.
Your points remind me of a paper I once read that argued that there's no such thing as savant syndrome, but autistic people simply hyperfixate in a way that leads to them putting more time into mastering our interests than allistic people do. You also might be interested in a textbook I recently started reading called Natural Language Acquisition on the Autism Spectrum, which is meant for caregivers of autistic kids but I find it fascinating from the perspective of an autistic linguistics student.
ok but i actually do really like listening to italian adverts theyre for some reason really calming; that bit you did in this video would probably have the same effect if it werent for the loud music lol
As soon as I started learning French and began learning French slang I began noticing how similar the French use of Arabic slang is similar to non-Black Americans using AAVE. Adopting slang from a culture that’s not yours. I wonder if my use of “Je kiffe” instead of “J’aime” is akin to saying “Wassup my home dawg? How you doin’ my g?” Maybe but maybe not. And obviously a lot of cultures adopt slang from other cultures that have immigrated to their country. I’m sure Israelis in Palestine have influenced Arabic and there’s Hebrew slang Palestinians use. I know that’s a touchy example.
it really just depends on the environments you're in; if you spend a lot of time in AA spaces where ppl speak AAE, you'll subconsciously start to pick it up; it's just cringe when ppl who don't get much exposure to it try to mimic it cuz it doesn't sound natural & is more like they're mockin the ppl who actually speak that way
I appreciate the general points about C2 level vs B2... I'm doing the last class in the Goethe C1 series this season, and it feels like basically my only option from here to become more fluent is "move to Germany, or possibly Austria." (I am not considering Switzerland, I don't think I want to learn fluent Schweizerdeutsch.) From a strictly English speaking environment I've hit B2 in French and German according to tests, and that seems doable, if requiring a fair amount of commitment, but I keep thinking at this point to continue progressing I just have to get up and move. Also reading other folks' comments about what testing looks like at the C level... ye gods. I don't want to. Every language test I've done has been "I don't even want to write/speak about this in my native language. The questions themselves are difficult to answer, regardless of what language production skills I have." The DELF was "I haven't written this much physically in years, and I don't want to send a letter of complaint to a politician in _any_ circumstance, but if I did, it certainly wouldn't be two plus pages handwritten, thank you very much." XD
I recently passed the Cambridge Proficiency C2 examination, and I don't think it tests all (or even most) of the abilities you mentioned. I’d be very curious to know your assessment of it.
I am struggling to even achieve B1 level in French. In fact, I am probably somewhere in the borderline between A1 and A2, and that is after more than 500 hours of study, mostly self study, whith some intensive 1 on 1 training on the French language while in France.
it is said that reaching intermediate level requires about 800h, don't worry. Also, because this is a ball park estimate, don't feel bad if it takes a bit longer. Keep up trying, it can only get better!
Dear Mr. Jones (Or can I call you "Language?"). These are all great points - I sometimes use "C2" as shorthand for 'effortlessly fluent in most social contexts', but I suppose there's more to it than that. What worries me though is, from your description, reaching C2 in some languages - East Asian languages in particular - as a natively monolingual sounds... more or less impossible? It's a running joke in long-time learner Expat communities in China that *nobody* can read Chinese. You could be a professor in Chinese linguistics, active in the field for decades, and still get panic attacks the moment someone asks you to read a Chinese text out loud. My Chinese is A2 by the most generous measure, but speaking from my Vietnamese experience, strangely it's not so much the social cues and subtext that I struggle with so much as the sheer vocabulary load, words that pop up in, I don't know, once, in a single book, that aren't *ever* used in common speech or academic writing or anything written in the last 60 years, and Vietnamese people just seem to get a "vibe" for (If you know what từ láy are you might know what I mean). Or thoroughly obscure Từ Hán Việt (Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary) that aren't actually used, they're just words transfered and Vietnamicised directly over from Classical Chinese that I expect many modern Chinese speakers would struggle with. Certainly it's far from uncommon for an educated native Vietnamese reader to frequently come across words like that in texts and be like "...Honestly, I have no idea what this means." Sure, this happens in English too, but in my experience at a much lower rate. I speak and read Vietnamese far better than all except one other learner I personally know, at least in terms of my academic and literary reading, and communicate effortlessly in any practical conversation that I come across. And I feel like I have a decent grasp on emotional context, tone, implication, different speech registers, etc. But it's almost *impossible* to read a Vietnamese book without being bombarded with weird and obscure vocabulary that's never used in speech or outside of a strictly literary context. I can usually count 2-6 or so completely brand new words that I can't figure out from word roots, and whenever I ask a native they're either stumped or like "Um, yeah, that's a weird one, I think it means something like...". So my question is: By this definition, do you think it's realistic for a native European language speaking adult learner of a language like Chinese or Vietnamese to actually reach C2?
I have a C1 certificate for English from my university. That test didn't go above C1, so who knows if I would have reached C2. I didn't find it very difficult at the time, except for the writing task with had a really strict time limit. But I don't think I would have had any less trouble in my native language.
after my teacher told me i had reached a C2, i spent a year workin my way through the Fit für Goethe workbook with her feedback & still barely passed. Germans think i'm German or spent at least half my childhood in Germany, but i took an IQ test in German once & didn't score nearly as high as in English. some ppl think C2 is equivalent to a native speaker, but i promise you it's not & after reachin a C1 in French & B1 in Italian, i don't claim my level has gone up over time cuz at that point i don't think it can without a conscious effort. a lot of progressin after B1 is also academic, literary, or professional-type stuff, etc
Hi, I’ll probably delete this comment eventually, however this is one of the most insightful videos you have made. I have autism and would never claim that I am at a C2 level in any language due to people having slightly different interpretations of being fluent and/or reaching a C2 level, in other words, beyond what is stated in the CEFR (besides the fact that I never took any language level tests). There are a lot of nuances with regard to the description shown in the chart. Therefore, I usually only say that I know such and such a language more or less as well as English as I find that to be a more personal response. There are three languages besides English that are my strongest, however I only have one other working language right now and that is Spanish. I have studied both Spanish translation and interpretation and have translated a couple of websites into Spanish. Still, because of what I stated in the paragraph above, I would never claim to be at a C2 level and I don’t even know what my English level would be according to the CEFR lol. For instance, it’s not always enough to claim you can understand everything being said in most conversations as then you need to get into the topic of those conversations, what types of words are normally used in those conversations (i.e. advanced vocabulary versus basic), etc. For someone like me who has autism, this can even change with English, my first language. I probably didn’t word that as well as I should but I did my best. Anyway, I really like a couple of your other videos too, especially the one where you don’t really agree with the term polyglot. Some people think I am one but I always politely tell them I am not. Apologies for rambling, great video.
cool, I’d never thought about this aspect of advanced language learning before. I’m autistic and hearing this from a linguist is actually reassuring. I like your suggestion about just learning to mask in the new language if you want to reach C2, and it’s nice that you didn’t just mention the difficulties. However, to be honest, this would be just too much work for me. I really like languages and I am already comfortable with my German at work and life, but I could barely learn to mask in my own language and honestly have no interest in doing it again. I would rather just suffer the consequences and get the good feelings from learning more words and being able to read more stuff. It took me 24 years to understand some implicit meaning and incorporate some social behaviours in my home country, and do that all over again for my other languages? Sorry, keine Lust.
I recently got certified as C1 in spoken French on the TCF, B2 in written. Reading and listening are only assessed up to B1 anyway, since that's the level needed for naturalisation. UK also want B1 for naturalisation, so I assume that's common.
I got my C2 certification in English by accident. My school offered a course preparing for the Cambridge Advanced test (which just consisted of getting to know the exam format, no actual studying). Turns out that when you score high enough on that test, you get assessed a level higher than you would for just passing. That was about 15 years ago, and my English has improved a lot since then - but mostly in very subtle ways (such as learning the tertiary meanings of more words). In my opinion people sometimes overthink what the C2 rating means and why the scale ends there. It's not that there is nothing left to learn, but at some point it just doesn't make sense to keep score. (And that point might arguably even be C1...)
I'm autistic and I've been using the English internet for close to 14 years now, and I wouldn't call myself C2 in English, C1 sure I probably have that level since I passed B2 exam with great ease two years ago but C2 has a lot of implications that i'm not sure I qualify for. And I'm extremely comfortable in this language despite it not being my native language. Regardless or not I feel like my English level is good enough to move onto other languages for me, maybe there are things I don't know but they don't impede on me using English. This is different from, say, Mandarin, where there are a lot of characters I still don't know and I have struggles trying to read texts, in that one I know I have a long way ahead of me despite all of my progress and I'm nowhere near C1 let alone C2, probably A1 or A2 at best in that. Also, I don't understand what the issue of English speakers with subjunctive is, my native language is Spanish and I have forgotten the grammar rules we studied at school for it so I can't explain what the subjunctive is but I know how to use it and I don't get how it causes issues since it's just an additional rule we use for conjugation..
Wow, fascinating. B2 has been my theoretical someday goal in Spanish and hopefully Tibetan, it never occurred to me that C2 could be a possibility. Still seems hard, but the whole goal is to learn the language *in order* to understand and be in the culture more… …but I do doubt my superpowers to get to B2 ever sometimes.
Interesting. I have never taken any kind of language test but my highest learned language would be French. I lived in Quebec for 13 years and for several years of that time, my everyday language was French. I went to school in French, I socialized in French, I really only spoke English at home with my family and for a chunk of that time I didn’t even live at home but in a college residence where 100% of every day conversation was in French. Casual acquaintences did not know I spoke English unless I told them. I would rate my French language skills then at somewhere between B2 and C2. But the thing is, many native speakers do not attain C2. C2 sounds like a kind language usage excellence level.
Does it count if I can write an essay or series of essays about the culture, inflections, implicit and explicit humor, and perspective cues in the target language? I can't, by the way (B1), but I *could* one day. And, yes, I'm half-joking.
I'm autistic and learn languages easily. I haven't tested in any of my non-L1 languages, but realistically I'm probably A2-B1. It's interesting to me that you say most of us got into languages for the pragmatics and culture. I get that, and you're probably right for a lot of folks. For me, though, the most exciting things about languages are the different sounds and the historical/etymological relationships. For me both of these are heavily based on systematizing traits. For me the sounds/phonetics have strong sensory and scripting aspects. The etymology is mostly just systematizing, but the systematization across related languages has a different flavor for me (metaphorical, not synaesthetic) than systematization of patterns within a language. The cultures can be fascinating in their own right, and obviously they're important for communicating with L1 speakers. But for me that's definitely less intrinsically exciting. But by those definitions am I even C2 in my GenAm L1? Pfft, I dunno. But it sounds neat and gets the job done!
I'm from Germany and here as long as you took english in the last two grades of the highest tier school you automatically aquire a C1 rating with the final school certificate. (Germany has three tiers and also mix forms. you need a degree of the highest tier to enter university). I got the certificate as well. Pretty ridiculous as I probably was between level A2 and B1.
I'm British and for two years I worked in a office in NewYork, in a role needing pretty serious written and spoken communication skills. I'd say you're ontpsomething, and I'm not sure how much of the gap I managed to close!
There are two things I've taken away from this video: 1) Since I'm on the autism spectrum, I'm probably no better than a C1 in English (my native language). Because, why yes, there are things which sail right over my head and land in the next county. A LOT of things. 2) I'm not going to worry about getting higher than B2 in any language (besides English). I mean, I've met my goal when I can read a newspaper or book in the foreign language or understand a TV broadcast. I'm not Vladimir Nabokov, who had a C2 grasp of English.
I got certified for my french and got B2 for reading, writing and speaking and C1 for listening after spending 7 years living in France. Then I moved to Quebec for 10 years and last year I tested again and got C1/C1 for listening & speaking. After 15+ years living in French speaking society I can understand news on TV or radio but still have difficulty sometimes when the presenter fires a quick joke, specially when puns are involved.
@LangaugeJones I’ve passed B2 (2007) and C2 (2008) in French DELF and DALF. As I explained in another comment, I’ve taught French in Mexico using the CECRL (for the Alliance Française in Sonora). I’ve made exams for my US students based on them (A1 for first semester and second semester level 1 French and Spanish ; A2 for second level French and Spanish ; B1 for levels 3 and 4 in French and Spanish and AP French). I’ve looked into making the DELE exams for my Spanish students but the need for two evaluators to score a student on all parts of the exam which weren’t multiple-guess made that unwieldy in a public and private school setting. I would estimate my Spanish to be only at a B1 or maybe B2 level ; my Hebrew and German are A1 or A2 ; my Russian and Ukrainian at A0-A1. Weirdly enough, I studied the languages in this order : French (7th grade on), German (10th grade on), Russian (1 semester as a uni Freshman) ; Hebrew autodidact since 6th grade (alefbet and liturgical) but one class in Biblical Hebrew taken during my MA studies in French and another class in Biblical Hebrew a couple of years ago ; Ukrainian, autodidact completely. I really enjoyed this video and totally agree with you. I haven’t pursued a PhD but will usually describe the C1 (I haven’t taken) and C2 level exams more like graduate degrees : synthesis and analysis of various written and audio documents in a written format followed by an oral défense of what you wrote and why. In French it’s required to take a side on an issue, to which I am adverse and really didn’t want to take a side during my exam but I did argue both sides and explained why I preferred to be neutral but that probably hurt my score in the end. Granted, I took the literature and arts exam instead of the sciences, so I’m not completely sure how that would compare to an MS comps ; my DALF C2 exam was very similar to my MA comps in duration and length of writing.
Ok, another insight into C2. According to Google, 'the world's greatest scholar', I saw in one place that C2 required a 16,000 word vocabulary. Since native speakers need to take classes to pass a C2 exam in their native language, I seriously doubt that figure. From a YT person talking about studying for and passing the C2 exam in his native English, the way I remember it was basically taking your passive vocabulary to an active level. Another described C2 as more like playing with the language in the sense that C1 uses it without thinking about it very much while C2 is always looking to find the precisely correct phrase, knowing the history of the words, creating plays on words, inventing terms like papaccino (a cappuccino for father), etc. Judging from that, I don't see a young person being C2, but rather a veteran user like someone who has been writing literary fiction for a living or a long-time linguist. But if you could pin the source documents for each level's requirements, it would be helpful, esp. if they are specific instead of generic, i.e., more like practice tests than 'know how to speak to minorities without offending anyone'. Thanks
Judging from the examples that YT was giving, it sounded like a vocabulary of 60,000+ but also with a higher than average active vocabulary. Most people with a 60,000 word vocabulary do not use it very actively. And with the last description, he was saying a C1 level editor would just correct a sentence, while a C2 level would go into all the explanations of why this had to be this way or that, what the expanded construction was, etc., not just, 'This sounds better.' I am not interested in paying to take the C2 test in English, but I would be interested in estimating how I might score on it.
As a former French Teacher who has taught and evaluated in class using CECRL, the paramètres are to allow evaluation of a student in any language. This is so that you can test at level B1 or B2 to study in a different country or get a work permit. You have to be able to perform at the level and think in the language in order to pass the exam and receive your diplôme. (I passed the B2 and C2 exams). The A1, A2, B1, B2, C1 and C2 paramètres are not language specific, as they are used for all the languages of Europe and can be adapted to other languages not from Europe. I used them in my French classes in Texas, Georgia and Mexico throughout the years. Each country gets to create their exam, and I prefer the DELF/DALF model to the DELE in Spanish. The DELF/DALF have fewer multiple guess questions and more short-answer or paragraph answers until you get to the PÉ and PO (written and spoken production) portions. The DALF C2 (arts and literature) exam was similar to and almost more rigorous than my MA in French Literature and Language. I had to listen to audio documents and read written documents before coming up with an argumentative essay which I had to defend a day or two later. I imagine something similar for each of the other languages in the UE. That said, the CECRL A1, A2, B1 and B2 exams are not grammar-focused or vocabulary focused like American langage exams have tended to be ; you have to achieve/complete certain tasks using the language, it’s vocabulary and grammar in context. The students of each language are expected to achieve tasks in their new language(s), but that may require different vocabulary or grammar structures than in a different langage and that is why the descriptors are broad. For example, in A1 and A2 the student can go into a restaurant, greet the staff, inquire about the items and ingredients on the menu, order, evaluate their order, pay correctly and take leave of the staff. This is different from the American Beginner-Low, Beginner-Mid, Beginner-High designations which tend to be spécifique to the langage being learned, if I remember correctly. (Once I had started teaching French in Mexico using the CECRL system I completely abandoned the US version, as I could adapt it to teaching both French and Spanish classes and make my exams have parallel structure. When I had time to look into the ressources for the DELE in A1 and A2 Spanish, I preferred to keep the format of the DELF A1 and A2 because the DELE requires two evaluators at each part of the exam and that just wasn’t feasible in a public school setting at the end of each grading period and semester. If you want the source documents for the CECRL descriptive paramètres, you can google CECRL (that is the French acronym I’m not sure of the english) and their documents are available in French, Spanish, German, Italian and English for certain. Other languages may be available if their countries have developed the exams. It’s been a while since I’ve looked up the documents themselves in any language other than French and Spanish (and I did for english once but only to explain it to an english speaker from the USA). The documents are on the European Commission website, if I remember correctly and the main page ends in « .eu ». Nope, here’s the main page link : www.coe.int/en/web/common-european-framework-reference-languages/ Here’s the document in french : rm.coe.int/cadre-europeen-commun-de-reference-pour-les-langues-apprendre-enseigne/1680a4e270 Here’s the descriptors in an XLSX document, searchable, in French, English, Spanish, Italian and German : rm.coe.int/cefr-descriptors-2020-/16809ed2c7
I wonder how the C2 criteria work for massively global languages like Spanish or English. Some criteria sound very tied to culture, but which culture? I would feel somewhat confident if I tried to get a C2 in English, provided it’s the right English. Mine’s mostly American-flavored at this point and even then it’s probably some sort of Coastal American English. But UK English, while I know my Kipling and Python, is its own can of worms, famously containing endless regional cans of worms. Sorry, the Brits would of course say “tins” of worms, except they wouldn’t because that’s not an idiom and… ugh. Like the difference between doing, say, a NYT crossword with all its hints about lox bagels (sheesh, talk about cultural specificity), and a similar British one. See? I don’t know what the equivalent would even be.
I've tried some British crosswords, as someone who does NYT and other US-based ones weekly, and yes, I think you're somewhat on the right track here on the comparison. I would say, though, that partly it was cultural touchstones, and you can have the same problem by. just being born two decades too late for the point of view of the puzzle setter or not watching TV, etc. But yeah, the point around "do I have C2 in English? Uh, which English, please?" is likely extremely accurate.
As a native Mandarin speaker, I’m not even sure I’d qualify as C2 based on your explanation. Honestly, I don’t think reaching C2 in a foreign language is necessary. I use three other languages at work and can easily communicate with colleagues about work-related topics and casual conversations during lunch or after work without even trying. It just comes naturally. I’d say I’m probably not beyond a B2 level in any of them. I agree with you that most of the work is already done at that stage, and pushing further is only worth it if you’re really passionate about it.
I may not be C2. Ever heard of the Dead parrot Sketch? John Cleese’s character is using custom-made accent that is specifically designed to be creepy, Michael Palin’s shopkeeper is very working class. So you have a middle to upper class idiot who has been conned by a working-class guy into buying a fake parrot for live-parrot price. It took me decade to notice that the shopkeeper was cockney, and then i discovered Cleese’s character didn’t have an actual accent…
Great vid! As a high functioning autistic person, I could immediately tell where you were going with the differences between B and C levels, but hadn’t thought of how I’d have to relearn that kind of stuff in a different language. I’m sure it’d be worth me looking into high functioning autistic speakers of these languages to see what they have to say about it. Love your work!
although I think elämä is more life as in the literal sense and not the spiritual "life" we think of so I think henki could probably be used for both red and violet
One and only one of the things that I do to learn and maintain languages is to use Duolingo. A few weeks ago, I went back to practice French and saw that they are now giving scores and what they correspond to on the CEFR scale. My score in French is 102, and I'm told that it is equivalent to B2. Does anybody else have any insight about this? I'm not in a position to go for a more formal test of my ability, but it would be nice to be able to give people who ask me how well I speak French some sort of answer beyond my own guess.
I began learning French on Duolingo in 2020, finished the course in 2022, and then worked with a private tutor for 1 full year. I then took the B2 exam and failed it. I then went back to studying it with my tutor and now, finally, I feel about 85-90% capable of passing the B2 exam. The lesson I learned is that Duolingo is NOT the way to start learning a language, but it can be a fun ADDITION to learning it as well as practicing it. Use it as a tool, not as the only way to learn it.
Non per essere negativa, ma secondo me anche chi è certificato C2 probabilmente lo è in alcune aree della sua vita e non tutte. Se prendiamo l'esempio di una persona che riesce a riconoscere tutte le sfumature possibili ed immaginabili per gestire e vivere le proprie relazioni umane, non ha solo studiato, ha anche una profonda esperienza di vita, rispetto, conoscenza della cultura della lingua in cui è C2 e una voglia immensa di aprirsi agli altri e confrontarcisi. Questo non è essere C2, è essere una fata turchina, un mago delle possibilità umane, preveggente e tanto paziente. Esistono persone così? Nella mia vita ne ho conosciuta una sola, una donna che è facilitateice professionista e che vive e respira questa attitudine. Boh, mi sembra una definizione troppo perfetta per essere vera su scala. Ne beneficerebbero tutti da questa diplomazia fatata. E comunque, no, il cioccolato non aiuta, anzi 😂😂😂😂 grazie del video. Chissà.
A lot of people are probably not even C2 in their first language 😀 But jokes aside: To my experience you'll be pretty much ok in almost all "scripted" day to day situations once you've mastered A2. You've learned all basic mechanical language skills at that point incl recognizing what you don't understand, so you're able to specifically ask for clarification on what you did not understand. And if your pronunciation is really good you will pass for a very high level at least at first. Once you've reached B2 your language level is basically good enough even in a work environment. I'd call BS on essentially everybody who claims to speak more than two languages on C2 (incl their first language). The only people that I've met where I would be willing to believe they speak 3 languages on C2 are people who grew up bi-lingual and then started to learn English in school and regularly (like essentially daily) need all three languages in a more or less professional context with native speakers of that language or similar backgrounds.
I am your regular watcher from Pakistan. Please make complete guide for Modern Standard Mandarin Chinese. You promised a video about Mandarin around 4 months ago.
A note on talking about autism: Many autistic people prefer Identity-First Language ("an autistic person" or "I am autistic") over Person-First Language ("a person with autism" or "I have autism). It is also generally preferred that you not use phrases like "on the autism spectrum." The euphemism treadmill strikes again!
Very true, I'm almost 30 now and feel like the last generation of kids who actually got taught real reading, writing, and literature in school before the oppression with standardized testing. Most schools in the US that still teach that stuff well are expensive private schools and some nice public schools in rich areas most people can't afford to live in.
I sat for A2, B1, and B2 for French 3 cycles in a row a little under 10 years ago. Just barely passed B2, 51,50/100. Vowed at that point to not try for official C1/C2. I can fake C1/2 on a limited scope of topics and culture from the time I lived there.
B1: Wowing locals with your amazing language skills
C2: locals now hate you because you won't stop making puns
@@jakegarvin7634 Haha 😂
My actual experience
Also in my experience, you also tend to make puns they wouldn't because you can (more easily) see connections between words since you've spent *so much time* actually drilling them into your head instead of picking them up naturally as you grow up
C1: locals find your accent annoying and get thrown off when you make a mistake
@@rosiebowers1671 Real😂
@@murphface My similar experience: My German is not better than native. But I do have better German vocabulary than most Germans.
In my experience most people might be said to be around C1 in their first language but C2 is definitely not an automatic assumption - even in allegedly educated adults. That sophistication of usage, the breadth and the ability to synthesise, contextualise and adapt is high level language use that many people simply never attain.
I doubt getting a C2 in short time is possible. In my case, I started studying Spanish when I was 17, and obtained my DELE C2 when I was 21. At that point I had been working with colleagues from Spain for 2 years, and my work life was entirely in Spanish.
The exam was hard - honestly I think I just passed because I told the examiner, when he asked me to talk about alternative medicine: “Just remember, this is a language exam, I have no idea what I will be saying from this point on, so don’t try any of them.” I heard the proctor/grader stifle a laugh. I knew I was going to at least pass at that point.
And yes - I got real good at Spanish. But learning other languages is harder in a way, because I have to learn how to…. Act in, say, Basque. I live in Spain now, and am in the Basque Country. Unfortunately, I’m ironically surrounded by people who don’t speak Basque, so I can’t update my database. Have been stuck at A2 since (the grammar is easy, seriously).
I remember being at a summer camp with a couple of Spanish boys as a teenager. Both were very nice, humble, and polite, with one clearly a little more outgoing and the other more reserved. Neither were totally fluent, but both spoke well enough that it was pretty easy to hold a conversation. On the last day, the more reserved one told me that he kind of hated the more outgoing one, saying that “when he speaks English he’s a really nice guy, but when he speaks Spanish he’s an arrogant asshole jock”. That idea of someone being a totally different person when communicating in another language has stuck with me since.
When you listed those requirements for C2, I was like, "yeah, no, I already can't do this in German, there's no way I'll ever reach that level in another language". I'm autistic and honestly, I just like collecting words and phrases, I like the way that tickles my brain, learning culture is exhausting.
damn, i'm not c2 in my first language
Same as many or possibly most native speakers..
Me too!
Also came to comment this 😅
no one is; CEFR doesn't measure First Languages
Edit - I just saw your post further down the comments which expands on your point here about first languages. Thanks! @@CreolePolyglot Interesting, could you elucidate? I could presumably take the C2 exam for my native language and would either pass or fail. In what way would that result differ compared to someone who got the same result after recently learning the language?
Je dois admettre que ce dont vous parlez me correspond plus ou moins bien, particulièrement ce que vous avez dit au niveau de rapprendre comment faire du masking.
A la base je suis anglophone autist mais ayant maintenant passé près de 9 ans en France, mon niveau de français a clairement amélioré, et bien que je ne fasse pas encore un assessment de langue, je dirais que mon niveau est bon. Je n’ai pas trop de difficulté de dire que je suis bilingue, bien que je fasse souvent la blague que le plus bilingue que je deviens le plus que je n’y crois plus.
Je vis une grande partie de ma vie en français, mais j’ai toujours un peu de mal de comprendre faire exprès les blagues de seconde degré - un point de rigolo pour mes étudiants. Cependant je penses qu’il y a des choses oubliées de votre perspective, et je me permets d’en partager.
Tout d’abord je crois que l’idée même de natif exige un purisme de production linguistique qui est impossible, même pour les natifs hors de la classe centrale ou prestigieuse. Donc le niveau C2 demande une forme d’intégration linguistique qui est afin impossible. Avant vous avez parlé du rôle des enfants dans l’évolution des langues, mais il me semble bien vrai que les marges entres les langues par les locuteurs hautement proficients vont aussi faire tourner cet évolution.
Cet argument nous achemine vers le deuxième. Les langues occidentales résistes bien cet évolution a l’orgine de maîtres de la langue pas d’enfance. C’est quelque chose de vrai dans les langues et les dialects (vu que l’un est souvent l’autre celui devrait pas vous surprendre) soit-il le AAVE, soit-il le français maghrébin. Il y a les instituons comme L’Académie Française qui résiste directement ce fonctionnement de langue, ou comme les anglophone université qui le résiste en demandant le coût de peau de cul pour y assister.
A l’avant-guard de cette situation sont les immigré.e.s, les autist.e.s, et ceux ou celles vu.e.s comme « outsider ». La notion demandée par un niveau C2 est en fait une préservation d’un identité qui n’existe pas dans un premier temps.
En tant que linguistes, c’est à nous de déconstruire le concept, reconstruire une nouvelle idée, et de partager ce qui est en fait, de parler une autre langue.
Donc, monsieur, je vous prie mes salutations les plus distinguées et je vous prie d’excuser mes erreurs. Merci beaucoup pour la vidéo, je les aime énormément.
Ps.
I know it’s used in the literature, but functioning language and Baron-Cohen are definitely on the out-of-date side of things for autism discussions.
3:00 note: the Council of Europe is not the same as the EU! They just use the same flag because it's a generic Europe flag.
Funny enough it was the Council of Europe's flag first
Interesting points and agrees with a lot of my personal experience. I am autistic, but I spent a great deal of time and effort on learning social skills, humor, body language, and reading between the lines.
I can confirm you have to relearn most of that in any foreign language, even though there is some overlap. It was easier to learn it in German than it was the first time in English. I still have a difficult time with sarcasm though in German (I understand it, but sometimes probably like 3 seconds later than I should). Also if I am tired I can't understand subtlety very well. I doubt my Dutch or Spanish are good enough to pick up on anything subtle.
I couldn't replicate some of my masking behavior at first in German. And also the stutter I had came back for a while.
I have been tested at C1 level in German, but that was like 10 years ago. I never bothered with anything higher. I doubt I could pass a C2 test though because I stopped caring about grammar after a while and I can't really remember the declension tables exactly anymore. You can hide that easily though with the local dialect where I live. But in a written test of standard German, no chance.
I tend to only dip my toes in most languages though. I am probably A1 or A2 in a lot of languages, but don't usually try to learn it beyond that.
Within this conversation of cultural nuance and how it relates to language proficiency, it’s fascinating to think of the incredible diversity of language usage and how someone could exhibit C2 level skills in some cultural contexts but be completely lost in others. I learned French in the Ivory Coast, where the language is used to express culture in a completely different way than hexagonal France. After years living in Ivorian culture and coming to feel completely linguistically competent in the Ivorian context, it has taken me a long time to begin to understand the cultural implications of France and their linguistics, despite the fact that both are the same language. Also, people are complex and one will never be able to perfectly navigate every situation all the time, no matter the language. Keeping this in mind makes me excited to keep learning and growing.
The truth! I had to pass a national language test for my permit to stay in Europe which was so scary and felt like I was studying for the bar exam even though I love languages. Being in Europe, the whole game is so different than being in the US.
As a high-masking autistic woman, I have noticeable changes in my personality when speaking my 1st language (English) and my parents native language (which I spoke from infancy). I am less confident in language 2 and although I would consider myself around C1, I do not have the same scripts to rely on and am therefore more timid. I even see a difference when I am in Canada speaking to my parents’ friends in language 2 vs. When I am in their home country. In Canada, I can inter-splice with English and rely on translations of Canadian cultural scripts, which I can’t do in the motherland.
That's super interesting because I feel the exact opposite. I basically grew up in online spaces with mostly Brits and a few American kids, so while I don't know how to act around people in my L1, both my personality and character do a tremendous 180 as soon as the language switches. It's funny too considering that I've only gone abroad once, and that was when I was the most socially fluent despite years of face-to-face interactions in my L1. I suppose that a lack of interest in my own culture also factors in, who knows. Mad.
So, this is a fun one for me. I am listed in the video! The famous autistic person with a language special interest who can learn languages super fast but has social struggles irl.
And I think you're both really onto something, and also sortof wrong? Lemme explain.
Not all autistic people are the same, obviously. But I have noticed that a lot of us tend to head *into* our weak points and become experts. Because that's the thing about autism: either we understand something completely, or barely at all. Did I have to spend an entire childhood thinking deeply about people and their inner thoughts and lives and psychology and emotions to develop social skills? Yeah. Did I do it though? Also, yeah. I would say some autistic people are actually *excellent* at the stuff about inferences, register, picking up on the finer points of emotion and sociocultural nuances. And it's exactly those autistic people who are going to get into languages! My main problems with autism are basically 1) what the fuck is a body and how does one work??? I am deeply clumsy and not great at recognising my body's cues/sometimes it hides them, and 2) I cannot do many parallel processes at once. So our complex conversation that I'm handling sensitively becomes really hard if we're in a crowded bar and there's flashing lights, and 3) sensory overload, yikes.
I'm preparing for my C1 German exam but frankly that one's in the bag, I just want to pass with an excellent mark, and I've lived in German, for 6 months now, and I notice I'm finally picking up social scripts much like I did in my first language - that is, half deliberately, half subconsciously, and with probably a great deal more interest and effort than others put in.
The thing is, I also have ADHD. And I've noticed a *serious* crossover there - loads of ADHDers love and are great at languages. So I think again there we're seeing some overlap. I do think when I see "hyperpolyglots" like Steve Kaufmann, what I'm seeing is an ADHD person (maybe) with just loads of interest in language and little "staying power", who is therefore really happy to be B2 in many languages. And so there I think it's much likelier that those people are B2 and....unlikely that they've reached C2 in more than one language. I could pass the German C2 Exam in probably 6 months, but it'll take me 5 years to meet the requirements.
I would say as an autistic person that at B2 - a really solid B2 - I felt far less conversational and competent than others in my class, or than I was apparently supposed to. I just....didn't know what to say, most of the time? I didn't have enough data to make leaps of inference when I was missing information for whatever reason, either because the person said a word I didn't know, because someone talked over three syllables, or whatever else, and even when I understood what was being said to me, I was often completely clueless about what an appropriate reply would be.
If anything, I think it's more likely that an autistic person is really good if they say they can speak the language - provided they've not just been staying at home and reading books. Which we're typically amazing at.
Because the problem with autism is not that we *can't* do these things, but that they all require so goddamn much processing power that we need either more time, or a calm environment, or - I'm really beginning to be sure - more baseline knowledge. I can't "wing it" for shit. And that's fine!
Anyway. I can read all those things I'm supposed to. I just often don't know what to *do* with them, unless I have read or learned a useful response at some point - otherwise it takes too long to generate one for it to be socially useful.
In that sense, I think increasingly that autistic people learn a second language more or less exactly like we learn our first, and it's therefore, you know, kindof a familiar path. Because this issue comes up with non-autistic people all the time: how they need to learn more consciously the polite phrases and behavioural rules that they just picked up as a child. I think it's exactly these sorts of autistic people who make their way onto language RUclips - and therefore while I end up agreeing with a large portion of this video, I end up disagreeing with the basic thesis statement. It's probably the ADHD that keeps these people jumping around from language to language, and therefore prevents them from going as deep as you need to for C2, not the autism.
Also the fact that it's hard to live in that many different countries for long enough.
Anyway! Just wanted to report in and tell you that, you know, hashtag not all autistic people. At least not all the time: catch me totally overloaded and stressed out and my interpersonal communication does indeed go to hell but, you know, I low-key defy the neurotypicals to say their communication is perfect in that kind of situation.
Also on CEFR terms: I tend to feel like those definitions are....aspirational, and they try to teach skills in classes and test for things in the exam that will sort of get some of the way there. Literally no one in my C1 class met the definitions by half, not even at the end of their 4 months. And I don't think that's as much a mistake as, you know, a bit of hyperbole for effect - the effect being, to get across that C2 exam takers should have much finer reading, listening, and social interaction comprehension than C1 exam takers.
I mean, maybe the report writers were autistic.
ETA: also, man, C2 just takes years living in the country. It just.... that's just how it works. Sorry. Most Germans who speak English to me, with only one exception I've so far met, are definitely C1 at English, really great, and are basically constantly accidentally rude to me in English. And they have no idea. Awkward! I spend a lot of time redirecting back to German because at this point, I *promise* my German is better, dude, just don't....just stop trying, I know you think it's polite, but you just word for word translated some German light humour that comes across as a flat insult in English.
I agree there is an ableist issue with the C2 definition BUT autism isn’t a superpower, everyone who lives with or is related to someone on the spectrum can confirm this. C2 is about maximal levels of communication in a second language. It is correct and comprehensive enough to also capture the challenges for autism.
"I am barely have brain"
- Dr. Taylor _"Language"_ Jones 😂
This channel is a treasure
Hey, I just sat the C2 in Portuguese the day before yesterday! I'd link to the blog post where I describe the experience but I'm pretty sure I'd fall foul of your spam filter. Anyway, thanks for the timely video!
The only languages I can confidently say I'm C2 in are languages I've spoken since I was a really little kid and went to additional classes to further hone my skills. Two of those languages are pretty much the same save for some vocab and the written scripts. There's no shame in being C1, or even B2.
If you learned English, you don't have to be able to fully comprehend Shakespeare. And if you learned Mandarin, you don't have to be able to give a nuanced lecture about The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
And like you keep saying, what's the point of flaunting fluency if you have no use for it? Learn languages because you have something you want from them. Whether it's to understand a culture, integrate yourself in a community, or get closer with someone. There are so many better reasons than just to say that you can do it.
I didn't know a lot of the things you said about C2, but it makes a lot of sense. English is my second language and I started learning it when I was around 7-8 years old. I also consumed a lot of media in English and I've always spent the majority of my time on the internet in American and other English-speaking spaces. That allowed me to learn the culture along with the language, which must've made the step from B2 to C2 a lot easier. A few years ago I took an IELTS test and I was certified as C2, though from what I learned in this video, I reckon you could still get that certification without necessarily being able to do all the things the CEFR guide mentions. Anyway, thanks for the video; I learned a lot!
So. Is it not possible to excel in these soft language skills (C2) AND be mediocre in grammar (-B2) in a 2nd, 3rd, etc. languages?
honestly not really. i’m thinking about my own target language russian and the grammar implies so much meaning (6 grammatical cases which change the meaning of sentences)
for a language like spanish if you weren’t good at subjunctive you also would not be able to understand the undertones of certain sentences because subjunctive can change the whole meaning of sentences
unless you’re just mixing up commas and not using uppercase letters i imagine it to be very hard to
I'm on the spectrum, I wish I could learn another language again like I did English😭
Some of us "freaks of nature" are just built different and I'm jealous!
I would definitely say I'm probably C2 in English (but who knows I'm not going to take the test) but that's just because I've had extensive writing and speech instruction in both highschool and college combined with 20 years of communicating online with others. I definitely wouldn't be able to reach even near my level of English in another language unless I basically restarted my entire education in a second language which doesn't sound fun to me. I just want to watch some anime and meet some new friends.
0:13 but your dutch was great!
That inly because it is a terrible language.
I really like your content its well researched, often succinct and funny. What i will say though is generally and i mean generally, the autistic community dont love the 'super power' thing. Obviously not everyone feels this way and i cant speak for other people but my experience is that it either comes across as condescending or infantilising or dismmissive of the difficulties faced. There's also a whole thing of that people use it as a reason to treat us reasonably like humans because we have the 'special skill', rather than just treating us like humans and fairly because we are humans 😅. I personally don't mind it so much as 9/10 i know its not coming from a bad place , but i know its not a term people feel is helpful.
Your points remind me of a paper I once read that argued that there's no such thing as savant syndrome, but autistic people simply hyperfixate in a way that leads to them putting more time into mastering our interests than allistic people do. You also might be interested in a textbook I recently started reading called Natural Language Acquisition on the Autism Spectrum, which is meant for caregivers of autistic kids but I find it fascinating from the perspective of an autistic linguistics student.
ok but i actually do really like listening to italian adverts theyre for some reason really calming; that bit you did in this video would probably have the same effect if it werent for the loud music lol
As soon as I started learning French and began learning French slang I began noticing how similar the French use of Arabic slang is similar to non-Black Americans using AAVE. Adopting slang from a culture that’s not yours. I wonder if my use of “Je kiffe” instead of “J’aime” is akin to saying “Wassup my home dawg? How you doin’ my g?” Maybe but maybe not. And obviously a lot of cultures adopt slang from other cultures that have immigrated to their country. I’m sure Israelis in Palestine have influenced Arabic and there’s Hebrew slang Palestinians use. I know that’s a touchy example.
it really just depends on the environments you're in; if you spend a lot of time in AA spaces where ppl speak AAE, you'll subconsciously start to pick it up; it's just cringe when ppl who don't get much exposure to it try to mimic it cuz it doesn't sound natural & is more like they're mockin the ppl who actually speak that way
I appreciate the general points about C2 level vs B2... I'm doing the last class in the Goethe C1 series this season, and it feels like basically my only option from here to become more fluent is "move to Germany, or possibly Austria." (I am not considering Switzerland, I don't think I want to learn fluent Schweizerdeutsch.)
From a strictly English speaking environment I've hit B2 in French and German according to tests, and that seems doable, if requiring a fair amount of commitment, but I keep thinking at this point to continue progressing I just have to get up and move.
Also reading other folks' comments about what testing looks like at the C level... ye gods. I don't want to. Every language test I've done has been "I don't even want to write/speak about this in my native language. The questions themselves are difficult to answer, regardless of what language production skills I have." The DELF was "I haven't written this much physically in years, and I don't want to send a letter of complaint to a politician in _any_ circumstance, but if I did, it certainly wouldn't be two plus pages handwritten, thank you very much." XD
I recently passed the Cambridge Proficiency C2 examination, and I don't think it tests all (or even most) of the abilities you mentioned. I’d be very curious to know your assessment of it.
I am struggling to even achieve B1 level in French. In fact, I am probably somewhere in the borderline between A1 and A2, and that is after more than 500 hours of study, mostly self study, whith some intensive 1 on 1 training on the French language while in France.
Thats so sorry....
it is said that reaching intermediate level requires about 800h, don't worry. Also, because this is a ball park estimate, don't feel bad if it takes a bit longer. Keep up trying, it can only get better!
@@SupGaillac Thanks.
Dear Mr. Jones (Or can I call you "Language?").
These are all great points - I sometimes use "C2" as shorthand for 'effortlessly fluent in most social contexts', but I suppose there's more to it than that. What worries me though is, from your description, reaching C2 in some languages - East Asian languages in particular - as a natively monolingual sounds... more or less impossible? It's a running joke in long-time learner Expat communities in China that *nobody* can read Chinese. You could be a professor in Chinese linguistics, active in the field for decades, and still get panic attacks the moment someone asks you to read a Chinese text out loud. My Chinese is A2 by the most generous measure, but speaking from my Vietnamese experience, strangely it's not so much the social cues and subtext that I struggle with so much as the sheer vocabulary load, words that pop up in, I don't know, once, in a single book, that aren't *ever* used in common speech or academic writing or anything written in the last 60 years, and Vietnamese people just seem to get a "vibe" for (If you know what từ láy are you might know what I mean). Or thoroughly obscure Từ Hán Việt (Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary) that aren't actually used, they're just words transfered and Vietnamicised directly over from Classical Chinese that I expect many modern Chinese speakers would struggle with. Certainly it's far from uncommon for an educated native Vietnamese reader to frequently come across words like that in texts and be like "...Honestly, I have no idea what this means." Sure, this happens in English too, but in my experience at a much lower rate.
I speak and read Vietnamese far better than all except one other learner I personally know, at least in terms of my academic and literary reading, and communicate effortlessly in any practical conversation that I come across. And I feel like I have a decent grasp on emotional context, tone, implication, different speech registers, etc. But it's almost *impossible* to read a Vietnamese book without being bombarded with weird and obscure vocabulary that's never used in speech or outside of a strictly literary context. I can usually count 2-6 or so completely brand new words that I can't figure out from word roots, and whenever I ask a native they're either stumped or like "Um, yeah, that's a weird one, I think it means something like...".
So my question is: By this definition, do you think it's realistic for a native European language speaking adult learner of a language like Chinese or Vietnamese to actually reach C2?
I have a C1 certificate for English from my university. That test didn't go above C1, so who knows if I would have reached C2. I didn't find it very difficult at the time, except for the writing task with had a really strict time limit. But I don't think I would have had any less trouble in my native language.
after my teacher told me i had reached a C2, i spent a year workin my way through the Fit für Goethe workbook with her feedback & still barely passed. Germans think i'm German or spent at least half my childhood in Germany, but i took an IQ test in German once & didn't score nearly as high as in English. some ppl think C2 is equivalent to a native speaker, but i promise you it's not & after reachin a C1 in French & B1 in Italian, i don't claim my level has gone up over time cuz at that point i don't think it can without a conscious effort. a lot of progressin after B1 is also academic, literary, or professional-type stuff, etc
Hi, I’ll probably delete this comment eventually, however this is one of the most insightful videos you have made.
I have autism and would never claim that I am at a C2 level in any language due to people having slightly different interpretations of being fluent and/or reaching a C2 level, in other words, beyond what is stated in the CEFR (besides the fact that I never took any language level tests). There are a lot of nuances with regard to the description shown in the chart. Therefore, I usually only say that I know such and such a language more or less as well as English as I find that to be a more personal response.
There are three languages besides English that are my strongest, however I only have one other working language right now and that is Spanish. I have studied both Spanish translation and interpretation and have translated a couple of websites into Spanish. Still, because of what I stated in the paragraph above, I would never claim to be at a C2 level and I don’t even know what my English level would be according to the CEFR lol.
For instance, it’s not always enough to claim you can understand everything being said in most conversations as then you need to get into the topic of those conversations, what types of words are normally used in those conversations (i.e. advanced vocabulary versus basic), etc. For someone like me who has autism, this can even change with English, my first language.
I probably didn’t word that as well as I should but I did my best. Anyway, I really like a couple of your other videos too, especially the one where you don’t really agree with the term polyglot. Some people think I am one but I always politely tell them I am not.
Apologies for rambling, great video.
cool, I’d never thought about this aspect of advanced language learning before. I’m autistic and hearing this from a linguist is actually reassuring. I like your suggestion about just learning to mask in the new language if you want to reach C2, and it’s nice that you didn’t just mention the difficulties.
However, to be honest, this would be just too much work for me. I really like languages and I am already comfortable with my German at work and life, but I could barely learn to mask in my own language and honestly have no interest in doing it again. I would rather just suffer the consequences and get the good feelings from learning more words and being able to read more stuff.
It took me 24 years to understand some implicit meaning and incorporate some social behaviours in my home country, and do that all over again for my other languages? Sorry, keine Lust.
I recently got certified as C1 in spoken French on the TCF, B2 in written. Reading and listening are only assessed up to B1 anyway, since that's the level needed for naturalisation. UK also want B1 for naturalisation, so I assume that's common.
I got my C2 certification in English by accident. My school offered a course preparing for the Cambridge Advanced test (which just consisted of getting to know the exam format, no actual studying). Turns out that when you score high enough on that test, you get assessed a level higher than you would for just passing.
That was about 15 years ago, and my English has improved a lot since then - but mostly in very subtle ways (such as learning the tertiary meanings of more words).
In my opinion people sometimes overthink what the C2 rating means and why the scale ends there. It's not that there is nothing left to learn, but at some point it just doesn't make sense to keep score. (And that point might arguably even be C1...)
I'm autistic and I've been using the English internet for close to 14 years now, and I wouldn't call myself C2 in English, C1 sure I probably have that level since I passed B2 exam with great ease two years ago but C2 has a lot of implications that i'm not sure I qualify for. And I'm extremely comfortable in this language despite it not being my native language. Regardless or not I feel like my English level is good enough to move onto other languages for me, maybe there are things I don't know but they don't impede on me using English. This is different from, say, Mandarin, where there are a lot of characters I still don't know and I have struggles trying to read texts, in that one I know I have a long way ahead of me despite all of my progress and I'm nowhere near C1 let alone C2, probably A1 or A2 at best in that.
Also, I don't understand what the issue of English speakers with subjunctive is, my native language is Spanish and I have forgotten the grammar rules we studied at school for it so I can't explain what the subjunctive is but I know how to use it and I don't get how it causes issues since it's just an additional rule we use for conjugation..
Wow, fascinating. B2 has been my theoretical someday goal in Spanish and hopefully Tibetan, it never occurred to me that C2 could be a possibility. Still seems hard, but the whole goal is to learn the language *in order* to understand and be in the culture more…
…but I do doubt my superpowers to get to B2 ever sometimes.
Interesting. I have never taken any kind of language test but my highest learned language would be French. I lived in Quebec for 13 years and for several years of that time, my everyday language was French. I went to school in French, I socialized in French, I really only spoke English at home with my family and for a chunk of that time I didn’t even live at home but in a college residence where 100% of every day conversation was in French. Casual acquaintences did not know I spoke English unless I told them. I would rate my French language skills then at somewhere between B2 and C2. But the thing is, many native speakers do not attain C2. C2 sounds like a kind language usage excellence level.
Blue and green.
I barely have a self evaluated B1 grasp of speaking in my native language, I am not a people person.
Does it count if I can write an essay or series of essays about the culture, inflections, implicit and explicit humor, and perspective cues in the target language? I can't, by the way (B1), but I *could* one day. And, yes, I'm half-joking.
Yeah, I’m not sure I’m totally C2 in my native language…
Only on good days.😅
I'm autistic and learn languages easily. I haven't tested in any of my non-L1 languages, but realistically I'm probably A2-B1.
It's interesting to me that you say most of us got into languages for the pragmatics and culture. I get that, and you're probably right for a lot of folks. For me, though, the most exciting things about languages are the different sounds and the historical/etymological relationships. For me both of these are heavily based on systematizing traits. For me the sounds/phonetics have strong sensory and scripting aspects. The etymology is mostly just systematizing, but the systematization across related languages has a different flavor for me (metaphorical, not synaesthetic) than systematization of patterns within a language. The cultures can be fascinating in their own right, and obviously they're important for communicating with L1 speakers. But for me that's definitely less intrinsically exciting.
But by those definitions am I even C2 in my GenAm L1? Pfft, I dunno. But it sounds neat and gets the job done!
I'm from Germany and here as long as you took english in the last two grades of the highest tier school you automatically aquire a C1 rating with the final school certificate. (Germany has three tiers and also mix forms. you need a degree of the highest tier to enter university). I got the certificate as well. Pretty ridiculous as I probably was between level A2 and B1.
The way you've described C2 then if someone is C2 in American English they might be B2 in British English and vice versa.
I'm British and for two years I worked in a office in NewYork, in a role needing pretty serious written and spoken communication skills.
I'd say you're ontpsomething, and I'm not sure how much of the gap I managed to close!
There are two things I've taken away from this video: 1) Since I'm on the autism spectrum, I'm probably no better than a C1 in English (my native language). Because, why yes, there are things which sail right over my head and land in the next county. A LOT of things. 2) I'm not going to worry about getting higher than B2 in any language (besides English). I mean, I've met my goal when I can read a newspaper or book in the foreign language or understand a TV broadcast. I'm not Vladimir Nabokov, who had a C2 grasp of English.
I got certified for my french and got B2 for reading, writing and speaking and C1 for listening after spending 7 years living in France. Then I moved to Quebec for 10 years and last year I tested again and got C1/C1 for listening & speaking. After 15+ years living in French speaking society I can understand news on TV or radio but still have difficulty sometimes when the presenter fires a quick joke, specially when puns are involved.
@LangaugeJones I’ve passed B2 (2007) and C2 (2008) in French DELF and DALF. As I explained in another comment, I’ve taught French in Mexico using the CECRL (for the Alliance Française in Sonora). I’ve made exams for my US students based on them (A1 for first semester and second semester level 1 French and Spanish ; A2 for second level French and Spanish ; B1 for levels 3 and 4 in French and Spanish and AP French). I’ve looked into making the DELE exams for my Spanish students but the need for two evaluators to score a student on all parts of the exam which weren’t multiple-guess made that unwieldy in a public and private school setting.
I would estimate my Spanish to be only at a B1 or maybe B2 level ; my Hebrew and German are A1 or A2 ; my Russian and Ukrainian at A0-A1. Weirdly enough, I studied the languages in this order : French (7th grade on), German (10th grade on), Russian (1 semester as a uni Freshman) ; Hebrew autodidact since 6th grade (alefbet and liturgical) but one class in Biblical Hebrew taken during my MA studies in French and another class in Biblical Hebrew a couple of years ago ; Ukrainian, autodidact completely.
I really enjoyed this video and totally agree with you. I haven’t pursued a PhD but will usually describe the C1 (I haven’t taken) and C2 level exams more like graduate degrees : synthesis and analysis of various written and audio documents in a written format followed by an oral défense of what you wrote and why. In French it’s required to take a side on an issue, to which I am adverse and really didn’t want to take a side during my exam but I did argue both sides and explained why I preferred to be neutral but that probably hurt my score in the end. Granted, I took the literature and arts exam instead of the sciences, so I’m not completely sure how that would compare to an MS comps ; my DALF C2 exam was very similar to my MA comps in duration and length of writing.
Ok, another insight into C2. According to Google, 'the world's greatest scholar', I saw in one place that C2 required a 16,000 word vocabulary. Since native speakers need to take classes to pass a C2 exam in their native language, I seriously doubt that figure. From a YT person talking about studying for and passing the C2 exam in his native English, the way I remember it was basically taking your passive vocabulary to an active level. Another described C2 as more like playing with the language in the sense that C1 uses it without thinking about it very much while C2 is always looking to find the precisely correct phrase, knowing the history of the words, creating plays on words, inventing terms like papaccino (a cappuccino for father), etc. Judging from that, I don't see a young person being C2, but rather a veteran user like someone who has been writing literary fiction for a living or a long-time linguist.
But if you could pin the source documents for each level's requirements, it would be helpful, esp. if they are specific instead of generic, i.e., more like practice tests than 'know how to speak to minorities without offending anyone'. Thanks
Judging from the examples that YT was giving, it sounded like a vocabulary of 60,000+ but also with a higher than average active vocabulary. Most people with a 60,000 word vocabulary do not use it very actively. And with the last description, he was saying a C1 level editor would just correct a sentence, while a C2 level would go into all the explanations of why this had to be this way or that, what the expanded construction was, etc., not just, 'This sounds better.' I am not interested in paying to take the C2 test in English, but I would be interested in estimating how I might score on it.
As a former French Teacher who has taught and evaluated in class using CECRL, the paramètres are to allow evaluation of a student in any language. This is so that you can test at level B1 or B2 to study in a different country or get a work permit. You have to be able to perform at the level and think in the language in order to pass the exam and receive your diplôme. (I passed the B2 and C2 exams).
The A1, A2, B1, B2, C1 and C2 paramètres are not language specific, as they are used for all the languages of Europe and can be adapted to other languages not from Europe. I used them in my French classes in Texas, Georgia and Mexico throughout the years. Each country gets to create their exam, and I prefer the DELF/DALF model to the DELE in Spanish. The DELF/DALF have fewer multiple guess questions and more short-answer or paragraph answers until you get to the PÉ and PO (written and spoken production) portions. The DALF C2 (arts and literature) exam was similar to and almost more rigorous than my MA in French Literature and Language. I had to listen to audio documents and read written documents before coming up with an argumentative essay which I had to defend a day or two later. I imagine something similar for each of the other languages in the UE. That said, the CECRL A1, A2, B1 and B2 exams are not grammar-focused or vocabulary focused like American langage exams have tended to be ; you have to achieve/complete certain tasks using the language, it’s vocabulary and grammar in context.
The students of each language are expected to achieve tasks in their new language(s), but that may require different vocabulary or grammar structures than in a different langage and that is why the descriptors are broad. For example, in A1 and A2 the student can go into a restaurant, greet the staff, inquire about the items and ingredients on the menu, order, evaluate their order, pay correctly and take leave of the staff. This is different from the American Beginner-Low, Beginner-Mid, Beginner-High designations which tend to be spécifique to the langage being learned, if I remember correctly. (Once I had started teaching French in Mexico using the CECRL system I completely abandoned the US version, as I could adapt it to teaching both French and Spanish classes and make my exams have parallel structure. When I had time to look into the ressources for the DELE in A1 and A2 Spanish, I preferred to keep the format of the DELF A1 and A2 because the DELE requires two evaluators at each part of the exam and that just wasn’t feasible in a public school setting at the end of each grading period and semester.
If you want the source documents for the CECRL descriptive paramètres, you can google CECRL (that is the French acronym I’m not sure of the english) and their documents are available in French, Spanish, German, Italian and English for certain. Other languages may be available if their countries have developed the exams. It’s been a while since I’ve looked up the documents themselves in any language other than French and Spanish (and I did for english once but only to explain it to an english speaker from the USA). The documents are on the European Commission website, if I remember correctly and the main page ends in « .eu ».
Nope, here’s the main page link : www.coe.int/en/web/common-european-framework-reference-languages/
Here’s the document in french : rm.coe.int/cadre-europeen-commun-de-reference-pour-les-langues-apprendre-enseigne/1680a4e270
Here’s the descriptors in an XLSX document, searchable, in French, English, Spanish, Italian and German : rm.coe.int/cefr-descriptors-2020-/16809ed2c7
@@ericcastaneda8069 Great answer with lots of detail. Thanks.
I wonder how the C2 criteria work for massively global languages like Spanish or English. Some criteria sound very tied to culture, but which culture? I would feel somewhat confident if I tried to get a C2 in English, provided it’s the right English. Mine’s mostly American-flavored at this point and even then it’s probably some sort of Coastal American English. But UK English, while I know my Kipling and Python, is its own can of worms, famously containing endless regional cans of worms. Sorry, the Brits would of course say “tins” of worms, except they wouldn’t because that’s not an idiom and… ugh. Like the difference between doing, say, a NYT crossword with all its hints about lox bagels (sheesh, talk about cultural specificity), and a similar British one. See? I don’t know what the equivalent would even be.
I've tried some British crosswords, as someone who does NYT and other US-based ones weekly, and yes, I think you're somewhat on the right track here on the comparison. I would say, though, that partly it was cultural touchstones, and you can have the same problem by. just being born two decades too late for the point of view of the puzzle setter or not watching TV, etc.
But yeah, the point around "do I have C2 in English? Uh, which English, please?" is likely extremely accurate.
The only language I need!
As a native Mandarin speaker, I’m not even sure I’d qualify as C2 based on your explanation. Honestly, I don’t think reaching C2 in a foreign language is necessary. I use three other languages at work and can easily communicate with colleagues about work-related topics and casual conversations during lunch or after work without even trying. It just comes naturally. I’d say I’m probably not beyond a B2 level in any of them. I agree with you that most of the work is already done at that stage, and pushing further is only worth it if you’re really passionate about it.
I may not be C2. Ever heard of the Dead parrot Sketch? John Cleese’s character is using custom-made accent that is specifically designed to be creepy, Michael Palin’s shopkeeper is very working class. So you have a middle to upper class idiot who has been conned by a working-class guy into buying a fake parrot for live-parrot price. It took me decade to notice that the shopkeeper was cockney, and then i discovered Cleese’s character didn’t have an actual accent…
Great vid! As a high functioning autistic person, I could immediately tell where you were going with the differences between B and C levels, but hadn’t thought of how I’d have to relearn that kind of stuff in a different language. I’m sure it’d be worth me looking into high functioning autistic speakers of these languages to see what they have to say about it. Love your work!
punainan: elämä
oranssi: dont know
keltainen: auringonvalo
vihreä: luonto
sininen: dont know
dont know: henki
although I think elämä is more life as in the literal sense and not the spiritual "life" we think of so I think henki could probably be used for both red and violet
Looks like a very insightful video.
Thank you.
Greetings from Ukraine.
Keep up the great work.
Я Також дивлюся це відео в Україні)
My use of a parenthesis shows that I am well on my way to C2.
One and only one of the things that I do to learn and maintain languages is to use Duolingo. A few weeks ago, I went back to practice French and saw that they are now giving scores and what they correspond to on the CEFR scale. My score in French is 102, and I'm told that it is equivalent to B2. Does anybody else have any insight about this? I'm not in a position to go for a more formal test of my ability, but it would be nice to be able to give people who ask me how well I speak French some sort of answer beyond my own guess.
I began learning French on Duolingo in 2020, finished the course in 2022, and then worked with a private tutor for 1 full year. I then took the B2 exam and failed it. I then went back to studying it with my tutor and now, finally, I feel about 85-90% capable of passing the B2 exam. The lesson I learned is that Duolingo is NOT the way to start learning a language, but it can be a fun ADDITION to learning it as well as practicing it. Use it as a tool, not as the only way to learn it.
Non per essere negativa, ma secondo me anche chi è certificato C2 probabilmente lo è in alcune aree della sua vita e non tutte. Se prendiamo l'esempio di una persona che riesce a riconoscere tutte le sfumature possibili ed immaginabili per gestire e vivere le proprie relazioni umane, non ha solo studiato, ha anche una profonda esperienza di vita, rispetto, conoscenza della cultura della lingua in cui è C2 e una voglia immensa di aprirsi agli altri e confrontarcisi. Questo non è essere C2, è essere una fata turchina, un mago delle possibilità umane, preveggente e tanto paziente. Esistono persone così? Nella mia vita ne ho conosciuta una sola, una donna che è facilitateice professionista e che vive e respira questa attitudine. Boh, mi sembra una definizione troppo perfetta per essere vera su scala. Ne beneficerebbero tutti da questa diplomazia fatata. E comunque, no, il cioccolato non aiuta, anzi 😂😂😂😂 grazie del video. Chissà.
Fully pressed like on the ugh at the glottosphere
Hell, I'm not sure most Americans would make C2 in English at that rate...
A lot of people are probably not even C2 in their first language 😀 But jokes aside: To my experience you'll be pretty much ok in almost all "scripted" day to day situations once you've mastered A2. You've learned all basic mechanical language skills at that point incl recognizing what you don't understand, so you're able to specifically ask for clarification on what you did not understand. And if your pronunciation is really good you will pass for a very high level at least at first.
Once you've reached B2 your language level is basically good enough even in a work environment. I'd call BS on essentially everybody who claims to speak more than two languages on C2 (incl their first language). The only people that I've met where I would be willing to believe they speak 3 languages on C2 are people who grew up bi-lingual and then started to learn English in school and regularly (like essentially daily) need all three languages in a more or less professional context with native speakers of that language or similar backgrounds.
Are any of these youtube polyglots ~claiming~ C2? I haven't found any that are...
Does RUclips favor American youtubers over non American youtubers ?
I am your regular watcher from Pakistan. Please make complete guide for Modern Standard Mandarin Chinese. You promised a video about Mandarin around 4 months ago.
C2 cuts out a high percentage of average native populations
❤
B1 in Spanish 🏳🌈
A note on talking about autism: Many autistic people prefer Identity-First Language ("an autistic person" or "I am autistic") over Person-First Language ("a person with autism" or "I have autism). It is also generally preferred that you not use phrases like "on the autism spectrum."
The euphemism treadmill strikes again!
Is that a huge yarmulke or a tiny hat?
That's a Yarmulke.
Considering all the talk about how bad literacy rates are in the US, I don’t know if most Americans can claim even C1 fluency in English
Very true, I'm almost 30 now and feel like the last generation of kids who actually got taught real reading, writing, and literature in school before the oppression with standardized testing.
Most schools in the US that still teach that stuff well are expensive private schools and some nice public schools in rich areas most people can't afford to live in.
I sat for A2, B1, and B2 for French 3 cycles in a row a little under 10 years ago. Just barely passed B2, 51,50/100. Vowed at that point to not try for official C1/C2. I can fake C1/2 on a limited scope of topics and culture from the time I lived there.
T
😂