It Took 53 Years for AMD to Beat Intel. Here's Why. | WSJ
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2023
- Intel has ruled the market for central processing units since the 1980s. But rival AMD overtook Intel in market value last year, thanks in part to an expensive bet on chip design.
WSJ’s Asa Fitch explains the companies’ battle for the brains of your computer.
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Pretty outrageous they skipped out the 2000's when AMD had the best chips and intel paid OEMs like Dells $100Ms every year not to use AMD
title says 53 years, and from what my math says 1980-2023 is 43 years, and since they skipped 2000's it even should be 33.... so i don't know if their date related knowledge is anything to go by
edit: went with description and "[...]since the 1980s", since it's the first biggest info they provide
@@1Grainer1 from 1968
cause its about market cap, not individual products
The CHIPS outperformed Intel's, but the company did not at that time, and that's the metric they're using, but yes, they vastly oversimplified and cherrypicked facts for this.
@conradconradcon This one appears to be a paid advert by Intel (intel paying for competitive advantage again). This time they are just paying WSJ instead of Vendors
The video missed one critical point. Intel bribed companies to not use AMD and made some modifications so that some software couldnt run better if it detected AMD chip.
As Anandtech put it in their article "Intel reworked their compiler to put AMD CPUs at a disadvantage. For a time Intel’s compiler would not enable SSE/SSE2 codepaths on non-Intel CPUs, our assumption is that this is the specific complaint. To our knowledge this has been resolved for quite some time now (as of late 2010)." It was only proven years later when a system was fooled into thinking it was running AMD while real chip was Intel and the performance suddenly dropped.
adorned tv did a great video on that
ruclips.net/video/osSMJRyxG0k/видео.html
Typical, spending too much money stifling competition and not enough in R&D.
As the saying goes, f' around and find out. Intel had been faffing about for multiple decades and they are just finding out.
@@rahulagrawal2381 It wasn't proven years later, it got caught pretty early, since the perfromance drop was quite big and what Intel was doing could be caught with just a simple spoofing of the vendor ID, soon after that people started making recompilers for the .exes.
The conspiracy theorists
Things I learned from this video:
CPU pins = transistors
Power capacitors = "the core"
haha....goes on to show even the Tech journalists don't do their job or they simply don't understand.
The cpu pins are NOT the same as transistors as pins are what are used to connects the motherboard and the transistor is a tiny switch that controls the flow of electrons.
@@hill5998 that’s the point of JetFusions comment…
@@JoeLion55 Nah not fusion, he is still only at fission.
@hill5998 whoosh...
Plus inventing* 64-bit architecture, plus building the first multi-core CPUs... AMD hasn't simply been "copying and playing catch-up for 53 years"
*Thanks to others who pointed out that Intel 64-bit Itanium was released first. They didn't "invent" 64-bit computing, but they brought an x86 compatible 64-bit architecture to market and popularized it.
True
It's the WSJ what did you expect?
I love my AMD CPU's since my first 486DX4 100MHz but AMD pioneered x64, Intel was first with the 64-bit Itanium.
@@opdinkleberg7078 Definitely not technical or detailed analysis🤣🤣
That worked because Itanium flopped - it was too much of a departure from x86
A documentary about Nvidia's ultra dominant market position and anticonsumer market practices would be equally interesting.
Agree
Nvidia was a FLOP until the bozo CEO of SGI sold off 3D graphics patents and the whole engineering team to Nvidia, giving nvidia a 2nd shot at life. As for AI, Nvidia got lucky, that same graphics matrix math was also used to resolve AI algorithms and they had 1st mover advantage with the CUDA Api.
@@polycadence8482 Love how losers always call winners lucky, and how they are unlucky to not have been successful. Relying on luck is why you are a FLOP.
Lisa Su gets a lot of glory, and while it's pretty much deserved, I think that Rory Read deserves more credit than is generally given for keeping AMD afloat until the turnaround tech was ready. I hope he got enough stock and/or options to compensate for having to take the public hits that he did.
agreed he really managed to start a lot of stuff for Intel
Lisa is undisputed god of AMD. She changed the public perception of AMD…. by ALOT.
Agree with that, Su earned all the credit she's getting, however RR saved AMD from ruin and set the ship in the right direction. RR was also responsible for selecting Lisa Su as his replacement. It's unfortunate he's mostly been forgotten.
No one was keeping AMD afloat, cross licensing prevents AMD from ever disappearing.
AMD was also working on arm based chip. So ditching that for x86 and success on that was a bold decision. Research and development teams are also worth giving credits
AMD is the reason Intel stopped selling dual core CPUs in 2022. See, they come up with 10 core i3 cpu ;)
Also, AMD is the reason they come up with Arc GPUs.
AMD is forcing Intel to change its status quo of selling underpowered CPUs and GPUs (Intel uhd series), and charging hefty sum for any performance upgrade.
Intel can easily release more than 4 cores in the skylake era, when the Xeons have like 20+ cores. They underestimate the consumer needs for more cores.
No
Intel is the reason amd exists at all ;)
@DeadManWalking Yes, and no. Just as crypto is drying up a lot of traditional usage of servers is starting to push stuff onto GPUs. There's simply too much data and it's going to get worse. I took one look at ARC and didn't, still don't, understand why they aimed at the consumer market. Server GPUs are a growing market, not a mature market.
@@maxjames00077 yep, thank intel for birthing a far superior CPU maker
>53 years
My brothers in christ
What about the 2000s?
What about x86-64?
What about the anti-competitive lawsuits?
Because Intel played dirty like
-Paying dell and all OEM to not use AMD
-Bribing companies
-Suing AMD at every step
Pinnacle of Intel innovation
down with literally the Goliath of our times, prophet Dawud wins again : )
truly a revolutionary in the American dream
@@anchorbubba Isreali dream.
Lol but for real these companies are just companies, there's no real reason to be a fanboy when they all do shady stuff from time to time to keeptheir profit margins high. Companies aren't your friends but they do make good products from time to time.
Didn't AMD copied Intel for few years
And when did they do that
Can't forget acquisition of ATI which they have translated into console graphics as well as the Xilinx acquisition. They have taken multiple approaches to expanding business, narrowing it to just chiplets is an oversight.
This!
And if people knew that most Inbedded systems uses AMD chips somewhere is also an oversight.
Don’t forget their push into data centers after ryzen dropped… EPYC is a beast
Has AMD been able to take advantage of Xilinx tech yet? Or still running as 2 separate company
@@aerohk well xdna is one of Xilinx things that will be ready for near future
@@aerohk they have AI tiles in their data center products I believe
I knew a under 7 min video covering the history between these 2 companies would miss a ton of stuff.
which also dedicated a portion of this already time constrained piece to explain how CPUs work in a simplified manner
The Wall Street Journal has a choice about video length and whether or not to spread it across multiple segments. They chose poorly. They missed a chance to demonstrate their claimed ability to interview experts as a way to surface the most relevant history.
I wish people would stop equating market cap as some kind of indicator of success. It's not. All it means is that some investors think the company has a chance to grow and are willing to make a gamble. e.g. TESLA with
AMD's merger/acquisition of Xylinx gets them into more markets with an established high-margin player and opens up more TAM through what their IPs can do together. It was the Xylinx merger that pushed them over the Intel cap value.
@@jtd8719 so again, it's speculative based on where the company could be in 5-10 years based on growth that might or might not happen. Most of the stock price is driven by the market meta, by which I mean market factors outside the actual performance of the companies involved. It's a classic bubble.
@@Giffandy5329 speculation for the company can lead to prosperity, as long as the company uses the money they gained from the investors right. If there's no investors making speculative investments, there's no opportunity for the companies to grow because they don't have the capital to take on new things.
Remember that the stock market was founded on people pooling money to make spice trade expeditions across the world possible, and those trips were deadly.
Absolutely true!
AMD beat Intel like 20 years ago, then fall of from grace, now they are even, but AMD is fabless and Intel does have fabs, which is both and asset and a liability
@@kuil Simplified towards misinformation. Bad journalism.
I wouldnt call it a fall from grace but intel actively cheating
@Hackintosh look up amd64 and intel itanium
literally the first minute of the video they say AMD beat Intels market cap for the first time...
@Hackintosh Yea right.
The switch to TSMC did play a role in their success. If they had stuck to Global Foundries, no way they could've beaten intel.
"a role"? It played the biggest role of anything
No doubt.
@@willberry6434 just like apple and nvidia uses TSMc
Why is TSMC not developing their own chips, why copy intel ????
AMD is gone now.....
Beat intel, only apple !!!!!
Intel would have to let TSMC make their chips to see whose design is the most efficient/performance. (regardless of margin)
What about Intel bribery to BIllgates to not launch 64 bit OS until Intel have a Amd64 instruction set?
Samething with Win11 with the "scheduler problem" with AMD - a thing that was working properly on Win10.... The future of the Industry is AMD-Linux.
@@ryzenforce most software doesn't support Linux.
@@168original7 It depends in what world you live. If you can write here on RUclips and watch videos, it's because Linux is somewhere underneath...
@@ryzenforce I wish. I was an ardent fan of Linux. When I started to use my personal laptop as my office laptop it's almost impossible to work in Linux because of windows products . Even though linux communities tries their best, even a developer like me can't move to Linux because most of the work environment are built around Microsoft app.
@@ryzenforce linux is too intimidating for most users
I'm a simple man. I look at benchmark tests, price, and then choose AMD.
No, if you actually did that then you would choose intel 😂
It depends on what you use your computer for.... Like 13600k vs 7600x , priced the same, 7600x is significantly better for gaming, but 13600k is leaps and bounds ahead of AM5 for productivity workloads.......
@@nix123ism msrp =/= price, on average the 7600x and non x are 80usd lower than the 13600k, and if you are using DDR4 for productivity it tanks multithreading performance by a lot, at which point you can just get the 7700, raptor lake was a better deal than zen4 when it released, but now zen4 is cheaper, motherboards and ddr5 pricing is going down, IPC is about the same, and intel refuses to lower the selling prices of rpl chips (cuz they are barely making a profit with them).
No mention of AMD's x64 architecture?
I was sure last year would end badly for me but I think BNB44X is spot on with what they do and how they do it. Can't say for how long it's going to work and for sure it is overyhped right now but even for half a year or something it would be smart to ride the wave and then jump away eventually but the thing is why this is smart right now is because it's so cheap, won't ever find a better entry than now
This is actually pretty nuts if you think about what you can do with it
Binance wants to bring all other exchanges out of business
BNB is underrated if you think about what happens in 10 years
This works guys I already tested
It's legit, BullishSteve is having promo invites and usually doing raffles on it
Yeah, man. Whoever thought of making those chiplets.. just pure genius. Cost-saving and fast AF.
Hint: it wasn't "AMD" as the article implies...🙄
A really short sighted view of the Intel/AMD competition. AMD traditionally lagged Intel in process, but at the end of the last century, AMD design lapped Intel and Intel was forced to drop their attempts to lead in processor design, Itanium, and follow AMD's design instead. At the same time, AMD lapped Intel in terms of multicore design. AMD managed to blow their lead of intel yet again, but made the essential move to farm out their fab operations -- just as most of the industry did. The result was they caught up to and passed Intel in process thanks to the Asian fabs. Intel hasn't regained their lead in process, and may never. What occurred was the evening of the desktop CPU market between Intel and AMD, but that market is (and has been) slowly declining vs. non-desktop environment dominated by ARM architectures, which neither Intel nor AMD make.
ARM's still have a long way to go to even try competing on the Server market. Smartphones, tablets, embedded devices, sure, but having reduced instruction sets hurts ARM by limiting what it can process.
@@triadwarfare Sure, read what I said.
AMD forced intel to try again with the 12th gen chips. Even now, a year later they are still incredible value for the money.
11th gen Tiger Lake was good and beated Zen 3 on laptops.
@@saricubra2867 gen 13 great value too!
The current CPU market looks great, competitive and full of amazing bang for bucks! Even though I'm an intel user, i thank AMD for bringing competition into the market and making these processors so budget friendly! Thank you!
The question is: why in 2023 are you still an Intel user? What since 2017 make you stick with Intel? Besides beeing a shareholder, there was no logical reason.
lol, says @Ryzen 😆
@@ryzenforce lol, as an AMD user myself I can see that Intel did catch up in terms of value, it's not a clear cut like back then. i5 Alder Lake and Raptor Lake is really good for its price (hence why healthy competition is always good for consumers)
@Ryzen I am not that power intensive user that needs all the performance, i do light gaming and a little bit of video editing. Intel offered great bang for bucks when AMD started beating Intel performance wise, specially the i5s lately has been great.
@@ryzenforce same can be answered from you too. As I see amd CEO is a poster child for feminism and that's one of the major reasons why amd doing good despite having awful processors.
Energy efficiency is the AMDs greatest achievement
It isn't cores but the smart phone driving ex-intel foundries to overtake and hold process node leadership.
Lisa su wouldn't have succeeded without amd having access to cutting edge tsmc manufacturing.
Intel was stuck at 10-14nm for too long.
Amd has always had competitive cpu designs.
Lisa Su was the best thing ever happened to AMD.
This video is just factually incorrect on so many levels it's insane.
Lisa Su saying "I hope you guys have your money ready" was hilarious 😂
They missed a lot of info, probably to try and keep it short. AMD purchase of ATI and then the spinoff of GlobalFoundries, all the cut costs and try to keep pace with Intel's dirty tactics. I have always been a fan of AMD and I new that their roadmap would pay off, I purchased AMD stock a long time ago when it was worth just a few dollars, and look at it now, only wish I would have bought more, I could be retired.
I feel old hearing the intel inside tune. I would assume a lot of people wouldn’t know what that signifies anymore 😢
A bit shallow reporting. There were other key moments that tarnished Intel reputation. The failure of the 4g/5g wireless chip for Apple, for example, which ended the whole Intel wireless division, not to mention the fact that Apple built their own ARM-base chip, which lost Intel a big customer. AMD fame of late is well deserved in my opinion. I have a surface laptop that runs on AMD. It is quiet, never gets hot, even on heavy tasks, has a brilliant integrated graphics card, I love it.
This is one of the most inaccurate depictions of how CPUs are structured I've heard listened to.
I don't know if this video was poorly researched or just heavily oversimplified, but half of the information in this video is incomplete or bordering on incorrect.
ahh what about the itanium misstep where amd released the first consumer 64 bit processor and even created the 64 bit instruction set that intel had too and still too this day licensed from amd
LISA SU is a top tier CEO, steered AMD all the way to the TOP, CPUs are now much much better because of RYZEN
Yes, She saves AMD to disaster!😊❤
Piece failed to mention that AMD is also a maker of GPU's comparable to Nvidia,
that Intel is just now getting into with it's ARC series.
Also mentioned AMD's innovation, but the key in competitiveness was
smaller nanometer design, developed and manufactured by Taiwan Semi
AMD dominated Intel in the early 2000's. The Athlon XP 2500+ and Athlon 64 bit 3200+ come to mind
Athlon xps were a struggle.. intels pentium 4 with hyperthreading really was a better cpu.. but i myself had a Athlon xp 2000-2400+. Theb a 3000+ 64 and then a opteron. But then after that i went intel with the core 2 duo. And for 8 years i kept that clu until the Ryzen 2700x and 3800x and now 5800x 3d
AMD history:
First x86-64 CPU
First real quad core ( core 2 duo wasn't a quad core processor)
I think the competition is great since it furthers innovation and affordability.
Intel’s new CEO is making an aggressive and risky path to turn Intel around, and in 10 years Intel will probably be making AMD’s and NVIDIA’s chips as part of its foundry business
not true, you are missing out the TSMC fabs that are opening up, and also the EU strategy for creating around 10 medium-sized-fabs in Europe, AMD could just switch to Europe in 1-2 years
TSM isnt even building leading edge fabs in the EU lol. Thats all automotive so if AMD switched they’d be leaping backwards.
Also EU fabs just aint gonna get off the ground for at least another 5 years - USA fabs have already gone through groundbreaking and construction.
In addition, you seem to have no idea what Intel is doing in the node section to compete with TSM and surpass then in PPW.
If TSM makes a mistake, or pulls an Intel, Intel will be there, ready to capture most of TSM’s customers, even AMD (if the situation is bad enough)
Pat did pull a bet the company move though, and it seems to be working out fine in the engineering and design sides of things, though Intel’s finances are horrible.
@@HKNotch I’m a recent investor in Intel because of their 5 nodes in 4 years, and I can tell you TSMC hasn’t started on transitioning leading edge technology to the rest of the world out of Taiwan, so every day they don’t start, is another day Intel leaps ahead of competition..
@J-P Not really. Why would anyone use foundries controlled by Intel knowing what they did previously to others? Why use Intel's foundry that are light years away of what TSMC or Samsung able to do, cheaper, faster, better? Intel's own actual foundry weren't able to output 10nm chips announced 8 years ago... and they now outsourced to TSMC to be able to produce them. What make you think Intel will deliver? Nothing.
@@DrakeFromStateFarm TSMC is doing sub 1-nm at this moment, did you know that? Keep buying Intel, that leaves more share from AMD to buy for us.
this bring back memories. my first gaming pc was with ryzen 1st gen
Dell, one of Intel's largest customers, just dropped their server processors for AMD's equivalent. AMD will go past Intel soon, if they're not already ahead.
No intel still has a way bigger market share in the server market. Intel also gained 10% in the laptop market share last quarter. And 7% in desktop gain. Intel server chip is still on 10nm. Wait 2 years and their chip on their 20A node will destroy AMD :)
@@maxjames00077 lol zen 5 will be waiting
@@miyagiryota9238 18A will be released instead of waiting
They took 53 years? When they invented the 64-bit architecture and multi-core computing?
Intel had the first 64-but processor, however the instruction architecture wasn't compatible with x86, so AMD created one which was.
Well put together video story. I'm a computer geek and I appreciate how you explained the CPU and what it does in layman terms that anyone can get. Kudos to you.
>AMD during the early-2000's: Completely roflstomp Intel left right and center
>Intel: *violates anti-trust laws multiple times over to gain an unfair advantage*
>WSJ: "It took 53 years for AMD to beat Intel"
AMD did what a company should do. Intel became lenient and managers became greedy
Missed the early 2000's WSJ?? Some great Journalism right there :P
Superb summary and presentation.
2:07 you make this sound soooooo much easier than it is.
New foundries in Europe and the US will offer so many new opportunities for designers like apple tesla etc.
( let's see if india makes it)
TSMC is one of the key reasons why everybody, but Intel, is winning. One of the best decisions AMD made was to branch out Global Foundries and move away from the Fabs.
Hmmmm, AWS, Azure and Google Cloud all are going to design their in house server chips. They already are. Leaving AMD alone. Intel will pick them up as costumers for their foundry services 😊 If China would attack Taiwan, AMD is game over too. They will be game over anyway once Pat Gelsinger takes over the market
@@maxjames00077 Agreed. AMD is winning, but only at the moment. It needs to move quickly into the AI chip market like NVIDIA to hedge against the server competition.
@@FragBoyStewie how is amd winning if intel is gaining back market share and its cpus are faster + cheaper...?
@@FragBoyStewie yeah true!
I owned FX 8320E , then i5-7600K, then Ryzen 1600 , then Ryzen 2700 , and now im on m1 MacBook Air :)))
Thanks for the content
2:00 semi conductor is either insulator or conductor, not more conductive...
Does AMD work well with drawing software/3D things? Never tried their CPUs or GPUs but seems compelling
Their CPUs are usually better these days but their GPUs are usually slightly slower in productivity tasks like 3D rendering etc. It really depends on the specific model of GPU though, and you should look at benchmarks of GPUs in your budget range before deciding. Never buy something just because of the brand name, always compare performance with hard numbers.
AMD is faster for productivity in CPU, but for GPU they are only the best in some software, whereas Nvidia has great hold over most software and performs good in all
Lisa Su's appointment as a new CEO was definitely a watershed moment for AMD. Before her, AMD processors were notorious for overheating and instability issues. These problems are still experienced in today's processors. But not so frequently witness this situation nowadays compared to pre-Lisa Su's period. Her ideas and leadership absolutely carried out AMD's prestige to a new level.
Thanks to tsmc’s leading edge process technology and capacity support
I prefer Frito-lay chips. They are cheaper and also good.
This is interesting..thanks wsj..
Good article thank you
TSMC fab-ed chip is faster than Intel fab-ed chip.
Very nice video.
athlon64? igpu? displayport?
The Wall Street journal needs to talk about Ecosia they are a search engine that plants trees
this is one of those videos where the info you need to know is in the comments, not the video.
Intel Inside was a brilliant slogan
The Athlon, Athlon XP, Athlon 64, and Athlon 64 X2 all beat Intel in raw performance per clock. I'm not buying this 53 year thing.
The company hasn't even been around for 53 years
@@vyor8837 AMD was founded in 1969
@@AshtonCoolman but didn't compete with intel for at least another 10 years
Sinking ships, both of them. Worldwide PC sales topped in 2012.
Thats such a shallow wikipedia analysis of the market and its players.
Dear WSJ
You're forgetting x64 and AMD K7 (O.G. Athlon)
Really really interesting ⭐
Ehhh I've definitely heard better explanations of how a processor works...
What this video doesn't mention is that the x86 instruction set is dying... and BOTH AMD and Intel will be declining because of that.
The ARM instruction will be the future and other companies are making their chips faster and more power efficient (e.g. Apple, Google, Amazon) leaving Intel and AMD behind.
never underestimate a underdog in the game
A lot of Nvidia's and Intel's top brass got their start @ AMD.
3:42 Legend 😂
Great to see more competition in this space. Monopolies are never good for the end user.
Intel can't make chip comparable to tsmc
Might as well say sponsored by Intel.
Beat in Market Capitalization, not Revenue, right?
This is an interesting story worth reporting on, but please invest in better technical advisors for your script next time.
Wow! I bought shares of AMD back in 2014 at 4$ share and I still hod them!
I started with AMD Athlon XP in 2003.
To just ignore the many attempts at innovation and successes AMD had in the 70s and 80s is just wrong. AMD developed some very advanced chips that even Intel produced in license for a while (early on). The problem was that AMD often miscalculated the market and their own developments only got into niche markets while intel defined the industry for decades. AMD was on the brink of bankruptcy many times because it took huge risks with innovative developments that rarely payed out. Its nice to see that AMD has finally broken the mold it was stuck in for so long.
The boomer WSJ made a video about processors that’s exactly how a boomer would make it. I’m so surprised.
AMD actually beat intel when they were in netburst aka P4 but intel strong armed Pc manufacturers into only stocking intel chips.
AMD also ran into supply issues so their R&D suffered for quite some time.
Wait, you didn't mention Jim Keller? "AMD release a new architecture" and you attribute this to "Lisa Su's tenure". While it did happen under Lisa, the head Engineer involved was none other than Jim Keller. The King of CPUs.
TLDR; Chiplet design?
I would say the biggest change that allowed AMD to catch up to Intel is focusing on chip design and cutting their foundry business. By having TSMC make their chips for them it offload AMD's responsibilities especially when TSMC industry leading.
Intel should have accepted Apple’s offer to manufacture custom chips.
Apple, Google, Nvidia are the future
She’s needs to be compensated the most compare to other ceo
The "detail" in this article is appallingly bad and really should have been omitted. The larger picture stuff is interesting though.
Its not about lisa su, inovation is from jim keller, he work on foundation on zen architecture, and how its make scalable cheaply, amd way more efficient, jim keller is brain behind apple A cpu and tesla in house cpu
Wrong, jim keller didn't work on Zen.
@@vyor8837 yes he did
Jim Keller worked on the design a little , but it's my understanding that past zen 1 it's been entirely a team that was organized and trained by Keller to continue on.
@@zunriya nope, he worked on Infinity Fabric. Mike Clark was lead on Zen.
@@opdinkleberg7078 Mike Clark was the one that organized the team. Keller helped a lot, but he mostly acted as a rubber duck that could talk back.
Where's the K7? Where's AMD64?
Intel has been greedy, that's their main drawback. However they did do one thing right, they have their own factories. And they're right, that will be the key factor, because no matter how good AMD does, at the end of the day their costs come down to production, and if they don't have their own factories, production will always cost more for them.
Side note, this video missed that both intel's engineers and AMD's engineers came from the same company before they even started their own companies.
Competition is good but it’s still a duopoly for x86
AMD is definitely a buy 🚀🚀🚀
Both companies have done very well from the ongoing North American stock bubble though.
Silicon is barely conductive, that's what makes it a good candidate for chip making.
Who remembers Cyrix cpu's.
It sounds like Intel is focusing on geopolitics and AMD is focusing on innovation.
Back in 1999, not only AMD is cheaper than Intel, it has better performance too. I had an Athlon that ran for 10+ years until I retired it.
Not saying who is better, after that I got an Intel and it run until now.