I just noticed your comments and thought as the designer and manufacturer of the Pirate Boat drive system I would enlighten you. If in fact the tyre did fail to reverse the only consequence is that the keel grazes over the tyre (there will never ever be sufficient traction in a tyre driven ride for a dead stop, the tyre to keel connection is always the weakest link), the system immediately detects this and drops the drive tyre down. The hydraulic system by Huss was of course very good - In 1970 !! But now they are unreliable, noisy and messy, in fact even Huss themselves achieve the drive in the same way as us on all new pirate boats since the mid 1980’s, albeit the Huss system uses a DC motor whereas we use AC (I can go into the reasons for that if anybody is interested).
Okay, so then the tire pressure to the ship hull is a set force, if the force is greater, then the tire would just slip and / or cause a current overload and shut the system down. Yes, that was a concern. Naturally I noticed this system is much simpler with less parts and that generally means higher reliability. I worked for Long Island's Adventureland in the mid 80's and they had their Pirate Ship since the early 80's. AFAIK, they still are using the original system. Question: Is the reversing method electrical or are you using a clutch? I figured a clutch would be an added safety against if the tire failed to rotate the right way. But it is more mechanical. I figured you would be using a three phase AC motor if you are changing the direction electrically. It is very easy to reverse direction on a three phase motor. But this has me wondering how the gearbox would hold up to the constant running at high speeds then throwing the whole system into reverse. But again, there is only so much I can see from the video, not knowing what goes in internally. With the original Huss system, it was hydraulic and the tires continuously spun in opposite directions. It was readily seen how one tire moved up, pushed the boat at a set speed and then dropped down. When the ship swung in the other direction the other tire came up and gave it a push in that direction. I did notice from the clip above that that system seems to be a bit noisier, but it is much simpler. Would you know how long that system has been in place at Palace Playland and how is the failure rate?
Diaval, It probably sounds louder just because of the camera position in the video, we have done about 7 of these conversions now and every time the customers reports that it is quieter than the original hydraulic system with its screaming pump... The reversal is entirely electrical from a 3 phase VFD, the gearbox was specified for constant reversal and the first one was installed 6 years ago and we haven’t had a gearbox fail on us yet so it would seem to be right.. There is feedback encoder on the back of the motor so it doesn’t only detect on over current, it also picks up a a speed feedback error and it’s pretty quick to respond.. Of course during testing we have many times run a full flight Boat into a a full flight Wheel in opposing directions and it’s actually much less dramatic than you would expect, it smokes a bit at first impact but then just errors out and grazes it a couple of times whilst the airbag empties.. As I said previously in all tyre drive rides the tyre is the weakest coupling in the drivetrain, and also the most sympathetic one actually, it takes a lot of shockloading out of the gearboxes..
Yeah, with hydraulics there is always that tell tale pump sound. LOL! Perhaps it sounds loud because all the covers are off, With the covers in place, I am sure that would deaden the sound more. Given the simplicity of the setup, I figured you were direct reversing the motor. 6 years and not a failure, huh? That is pretty impressive. Yeah, for some reason I thought if that wheel ever went the wrong way, chaos would ensue. I didn't think it was far less dramatic. One thing I found on the old Huss system is with the emergency stop, the tires just dropped down and the ride freewheeled. It actually took longer to stop the ride. Not much of an emergency stop if you asked me. Pushing the normal stop button actually stopped the ride faster. Did you improve on that too? How is the reversing controlled?
Diaval Well emergency stop does still drop the tyre as removing all motive power is a part of the safety criteria of an emergency stop, but you do then have the option to re-engage it and apply a lower pressure stopping brake that brings the boat to rest within a few swings, this is even available in the event of a power failure.. The reversal is done by a PLC changing the polarity of the VFD reference via processing of a signal from an encoder on the to;p axle.
Oh, it has a stopping brake then. That is good. With the original system, I was under the impression that when the emergency stop was used, that it would bring the ride to a stop at a faster rate than a normal stop. So I was a bit surprised to find that the tires just dropped down and the ship just kept swinging back and forth and seemingly was swinging much longer to a stop. I was hesitant to re-engage the system with the boat swinging like that. Needless to say, I never used the emergency stop again. But if the new system addresses that issue and DOES bring the ride to a stop faster, then that certainly is quite an improvement right there. Question: Since this system is electrical based. How is the bar restraint system handled, since this was originally hydraulic controlled? Is still a small hydraulic pump needed to operate the restraints?
What's the lower boom look like on the inside on a Huss Rainbow? If you know, tell me, i'm curious to know. I heard different things from different people, it's either a drive shaft driven ride, or there's a big chain inside that lower boom, keeping the gondola upright at all times. The 1001 Nachts has the shafts on the outside of the lower boom.
I think it's a driveshaft inside but only one. If you look at some pictures when the arm is off the ride, you can see a metal cylinder that has a pice of metal that locks into the main boom of the ride (the center). Over all it's a driveshaft that's enclosed I'm sure of it.
The Rainbow and 1001 Nights are both made by Huss, it would make sense that they are the same or similar designs. Generally given the size of the gondola supported by a single large arm, it would be drive shafts. A chain would wear when it ages and cause too much slack. However, on gondolas supported with two arms, a chain might be used in that application.
They have two versions of 1001 Nachts. The first one is like he HUSS Rainbow and the second one is like the Rockstar, The Original Full tilt that started these types of rides and Flying Dutchman.
I am a bit leery about this system. So the tire has to reverse direction quickly? What if there is a miss on the sensor switches and the tire spins the wrong way. I can see that being disastrous on many levels. What Huss did was that they had two tires spinning in opposite directions continuously. There were sensors on the top beam that sensed the motion of the ship. One tire would engage to move the ship one way, then it would drop down and the other tire would raise up to push the ship the other way. Then that would drop down and the other tire would come back up, and so on and so forth. That just seemed like a more elegant way of doing it and it has more of a positive action in that it was fairly impossible that the wrong tire would be engaged. If there was a failure of the system, both tires would drop down and the ship would just swing to a stop. With a single tire like this perhaps they could do it with a clutch? But still...what if that clutch sticks? There is a video here on YT in which you can see how the original Huss system works under 'Blackbeard's Fury Drive System'.
@@Alexgreat-mz2dj Perhaps, I know most of the newer rides, do it this way. Yet Adventureland's (Long Island) Pirate ship still has the the old two wheel system.
this is a lot quieter than the original hydraulic drive System!
I just noticed your comments and thought as the designer and manufacturer of the Pirate Boat drive system I would enlighten you. If in fact the tyre did fail to reverse the only consequence is that the keel grazes over the tyre (there will never ever be sufficient traction in a tyre driven ride for a dead stop, the tyre to keel connection is always the weakest link), the system immediately detects this and drops the drive tyre down. The hydraulic system by Huss was of course very good - In 1970 !! But now they are unreliable, noisy and messy, in fact even Huss themselves achieve the drive in the same way as us on all new pirate boats since the mid 1980’s, albeit the Huss system uses a DC motor whereas we use AC (I can go into the reasons for that if anybody is interested).
Okay, so then the tire pressure to the ship hull is a set force, if the force is greater, then the tire would just slip and / or cause a current overload and shut the system down. Yes, that was a concern. Naturally I noticed this system is much simpler with less parts and that generally means higher reliability. I worked for Long Island's Adventureland in the mid 80's and they had their Pirate Ship since the early 80's. AFAIK, they still are using the original system. Question: Is the reversing method electrical or are you using a clutch? I figured a clutch would be an added safety against if the tire failed to rotate the right way. But it is more mechanical. I figured you would be using a three phase AC motor if you are changing the direction electrically. It is very easy to reverse direction on a three phase motor. But this has me wondering how the gearbox would hold up to the constant running at high speeds then throwing the whole system into reverse. But again, there is only so much I can see from the video, not knowing what goes in internally. With the original Huss system, it was hydraulic and the tires continuously spun in opposite directions. It was readily seen how one tire moved up, pushed the boat at a set speed and then dropped down. When the ship swung in the other direction the other tire came up and gave it a push in that direction. I did notice from the clip above that that system seems to be a bit noisier, but it is much simpler. Would you know how long that system has been in place at Palace Playland and how is the failure rate?
Diaval, It probably sounds louder just because of the camera position in the video, we have done about 7 of these conversions now and every time the customers reports that it is quieter than the original hydraulic system with its screaming pump... The reversal is entirely electrical from a 3 phase VFD, the gearbox was specified for constant reversal and the first one was installed 6 years ago and we haven’t had a gearbox fail on us yet so it would seem to be right.. There is feedback encoder on the back of the motor so it doesn’t only detect on over current, it also picks up a a speed feedback error and it’s pretty quick to respond.. Of course during testing we have many times run a full flight Boat into a a full flight Wheel in opposing directions and it’s actually much less dramatic than you would expect, it smokes a bit at first impact but then just errors out and grazes it a couple of times whilst the airbag empties.. As I said previously in all tyre drive rides the tyre is the weakest coupling in the drivetrain, and also the most sympathetic one actually, it takes a lot of shockloading out of the gearboxes..
Yeah, with hydraulics there is always that tell tale pump sound. LOL! Perhaps it sounds loud because all the covers are off, With the covers in place, I am sure that would deaden the sound more. Given the simplicity of the setup, I figured you were direct reversing the motor. 6 years and not a failure, huh? That is pretty impressive. Yeah, for some reason I thought if that wheel ever went the wrong way, chaos would ensue. I didn't think it was far less dramatic. One thing I found on the old Huss system is with the emergency stop, the tires just dropped down and the ride freewheeled. It actually took longer to stop the ride. Not much of an emergency stop if you asked me. Pushing the normal stop button actually stopped the ride faster. Did you improve on that too? How is the reversing controlled?
Diaval Well emergency stop does still drop the tyre as removing all motive power is a part of the safety criteria of an emergency stop, but you do then have the option to re-engage it and apply a lower pressure stopping brake that brings the boat to rest within a few swings, this is even available in the event of a power failure.. The reversal is done by a PLC changing the polarity of the VFD reference via processing of a signal from an encoder on the to;p axle.
Oh, it has a stopping brake then. That is good. With the original system, I was under the impression that when the emergency stop was used, that it would bring the ride to a stop at a faster rate than a normal stop. So I was a bit surprised to find that the tires just dropped down and the ship just kept swinging back and forth and seemingly was swinging much longer to a stop. I was hesitant to re-engage the system with the boat swinging like that. Needless to say, I never used the emergency stop again. But if the new system addresses that issue and DOES bring the ride to a stop faster, then that certainly is quite an improvement right there. Question: Since this system is electrical based. How is the bar restraint system handled, since this was originally hydraulic controlled? Is still a small hydraulic pump needed to operate the restraints?
Whatever the alteration was, it's a lot louder than I remember it to be in the 90s
This new drive makes it move faster. (As it appears to me)
What's the lower boom look like on the inside on a Huss Rainbow? If you know, tell me, i'm curious to know. I heard different things from different people, it's either a drive shaft driven ride, or there's a big chain inside that lower boom, keeping the gondola upright at all times. The 1001 Nachts has the shafts on the outside of the lower boom.
I think it's a driveshaft inside but only one. If you look at some pictures when the arm is off the ride, you can see a metal cylinder that has a pice of metal that locks into the main boom of the ride (the center). Over all it's a driveshaft that's enclosed I'm sure of it.
The Rainbow and 1001 Nights are both made by Huss, it would make sense that they are the same or similar designs. Generally given the size of the gondola supported by a single large arm, it would be drive shafts. A chain would wear when it ages and cause too much slack. However, on gondolas supported with two arms, a chain might be used in that application.
They have two versions of 1001 Nachts. The first one is like he HUSS Rainbow and the second one is like the Rockstar, The Original Full tilt that started these types of rides and Flying Dutchman.
I am a bit leery about this system. So the tire has to reverse direction quickly? What if there is a miss on the sensor switches and the tire spins the wrong way. I can see that being disastrous on many levels. What Huss did was that they had two tires spinning in opposite directions continuously. There were sensors on the top beam that sensed the motion of the ship. One tire would engage to move the ship one way, then it would drop down and the other tire would raise up to push the ship the other way. Then that would drop down and the other tire would come back up, and so on and so forth. That just seemed like a more elegant way of doing it and it has more of a positive action in that it was fairly impossible that the wrong tire would be engaged. If there was a failure of the system, both tires would drop down and the ship would just swing to a stop. With a single tire like this perhaps they could do it with a clutch? But still...what if that clutch sticks? There is a video here on YT in which you can see how the original Huss system works under 'Blackbeard's Fury Drive System'.
Diaval Oh yeah. The Sea Ray's Drive system is like what you explained.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. The new drive system is way faster now and safer.
@@Alexgreat-mz2dj Perhaps, I know most of the newer rides, do it this way. Yet Adventureland's (Long Island) Pirate ship still has the the old two wheel system.