APL Qingdao Loses Propulsion While Departing the Port of New York/New Jersey
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2024
- Another Ship Lost Propulsion
What's Going on With Shipping?
April 9, 2024
In this episode, Sal Mercogliano - a maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - APL Qingdao lost power while departing from the Howland Hook Terminal on Staten Island while heading to Norfolk.
#aplqingdao #supplychain #containerships
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Marine Traffic
www.marinetraffic.com
Container ship's engines die outside NYC, comes to stop near Verrazzano bridge
www.foxnews.com/us/container-...
Tests on fuel delivered to Dali in N.J. before bridge crash showed it was safe, company says
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...
Several ships over the past few years have experienced blackouts or engine failures at or near ports around the world. One culprit: contaminated fuel.
www.wsj.com/business/energy-oil/contaminated-fuel-is-a-hard-to-fix-problem-in-ocean-shipping-10ccbbad via @WSJ
bull shit
So if this is a known issue, a situation that can happen with ships, losing power from various causes near ports, aka where bridges are, then blame for the bridge collapse is 100% on the authorities.
And not just the local politician now, but going back until the Florida crash from '80, up to country leader. Because the financial loss is huge .
If there were mandates to build bridge protections and those in charge didn't do it (+40 years have passed) citing whatever reasons, those in charge must take the blame, retroactivelly as well. All the former management alongside current, open pockets and start coughing up reparations.
You'd think they'd test fuel and put in more water separators.
You don't know about scalar weapon systems. But you can . Wishing you a great day 🙏🏻 ❤️🔥 🖖🏻!
@@WilliamKelly-ou2nm I do know and they have nothing to do with ships loosing power.
I’m in the fuel ⛽️ industry
There has been a problem with diesel especially winter fuels coating filter media and shutting down the flow. This has been going on for several years. No one has an answer except keep changing filters once or twice a week! I’m sure they know what the cause is but don’t want to own up to it, because you know, money! 💵
BIO diesel ??? Seems like bio-diesel is more susceptible to fungal growth that could clog filters.
Its the biofuel that is mixed in with the diesel, it causes the filters to sludge up
Its the biofuel that is mixed in with the diesel, it causes the filters to sludge up
prolly mold in the tank
Does this have to do with the banning of the use of bunker fuel on the open ocean? Seems to me that if they can't sell the dregs of the barrel anymore, they might push more of it into the regular fuel they sell...
Back in the 1980's, we had issues with fuel injectors and stuck piston rings. It was discovered the marine diesel oil was too dry for our engines. The solution was to add a gallon of lube oil to the day tank every time it was filled.
I used to do that with my Auto Union 1000-DKW, 1qt of oil per 10 gallons of gas. After about 60,000 miles of this punishment, it would feed the piston rings out the exhaust ports. (You are supposed to use 2-stroke oil which is not 1/3 detergent, but the engine was always very clean inside!).
The newcomers that replaced the long time workers do not know about the lube?
@@amishpat5201 an “off the books maintenance procedure.
Kinda like using cream cheese instead of butter to make a box of mac and cheese
We have that now it’s called ultra low sulfur. Diesel injection pumps have problems to because of this
It's nothing new. It's being happening in modern shipping since I can remember and I'm 60+ years old. A quick solution is extendeding tug support but tha will cost $$$.
Amazing how few serious shipping accidents there are when you consider how much of it has been going on around us for so many years! *Good work folks, thanks!*
amazing how many accidents caused by professional captains makes the public think they got there license from a cracker jack box
Exactly. That's why the bridge collapse is Sabotage until proven otherwise, would be a more prudent approach.
yeah planes ships and train are surprisingly reliable.
until the whole red sea blockage didnt know we had that many ships worldwide.
would love to sail past antarctica.
if nothing is there why is it blocked?
there is something there )
namaste.
NOTHING this type of incident happens every day around the world. Its only because Israelistan thinks it can use it as anti China / Russia propaganda you're hearing about it. And this is how they control the SHEEPLE
agree, good reaction of the tugs but and port authority! the traffic increased a lot in the past decade.
15 years ago, I made a trip to the west coast of Florida, and then on to San Antonio TX, for a couple of job interviews. I was driving a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - one of the few thousand that Chrysler sold in 2005 and 2006 with a high pressure common rail diesel engine.
I stopped and tanked up on diesel before starting the trek from Florida to Texas. An hour or so later, the engine started running like crap, very noisy, noticeable loss of power, even misfiring on occasion. Having experienced getting a bad batch of fuel and clogged fuel filters once before, I immediately suspected that to be the case, and pulled over at a rest area to troubleshoot the problem.
When I pulled off the fuel filters and drained the contents into a bucket, there were literally dead insects trapped inside them.
Later when talking to other diesel owners I knew, a couple of them said they'd ran into this issue before - that the root cause was, that particular service station most likely had their storage tank air vents in an unprotected location, and didn't have any type of screens over the vents to prevent the entry of insects or other contaminants.
The point being, fuel can become contaminated at any point along the supply chain, before it actually gets pumped into the engine itself, regardless of all the testing that's done.
I’ve made screens that go into the tanks on my equipment to screens out all this crap as it goes into my tanks for that very reason. The fuel going thru the screens catches everything down to the size of mosquitoes and there’s is literally 100s of them in there. Sometimes I have to clean the screens off a few times. There was no problem years ago but it’s every where now.
Side note; Industrial boilers used grades 5 (bunker B) and 6 (bunker C) oils, that required pre-heating to move around easily. Or natural gas burners. Our problems were more from water contaminates from pre-heater systems leaking. condensation Or possibly from rain water entering the tanks fill pipes if someone was careless..
Water collects below the oil level, as oil floats on top of water, and eventually it's level could have reached the pump inlets to the burners. Such tanks had to be monitored and have the water removed to keep it well below the pump inlets.
Refilling in winter time was a slow process if the oil had cooled too much in transit.
A couple of months ago a co-worker of mine stopped and fueled up after work and his car died shortly after leaving the station. Turns out the gas stations tank was heavily contaminated with rain water.
doen't gas station pomps have filters at the pump?
@@edwardgabriel5281 With as many tanks/pumps as there are and the length of time some have been in service, it is not surprising that failures happen somewhere from time to time. Equipment breaks/wears out. People are people. Stuff happens. If you were to consider all the interactions you have on a daily basis with mechanical systems and human operated processes and how they could potentially go wrong, you probably would not want to leave your house. We take for granted that everything we interact with will work as advertised. However this is not always the case.
Tugs and Harbor Pilots just doing their jobs. +Excellent response by others.
Dali was a planned 'False Flag'!
Who was the Pilot? What's his/her story?
2 weeks later and we still DON'T know!?
Funny when we have these 'False Flag' shootings we know the shooter, how many
guns he owns, his medical records on mental health and what he had for breakfast
inside of an HOUR!!!!
On May 31st, 1973, the Sea Witch and Esso Brussels collided near the Verrazano and drifted beneath as they burned. 15 men died and the captain of the Sea Witch suffered a fatal heart attack during the incident. The Coast Guard and FDNY were heroic in saving the majority of the seamen.
Cripes. I remember that. Horrific.
I remember that as well.
Leave it to the others start screaming it’s a conspiracy all these accidents I m so done with them making up bs no matter how many years between events
I don't remember that. Huh.
Google skills
This year I saw a barge break free of its tug boat and it was headed for the Esplande at Albany Street, NYC. The tug put on the engines and intercepted it before it made contact with the Esplande walkway. The black smoke pouring out of the tug is what caught my eye.
There was crew on the tug who were able to reattach ropes to the barge. No harm, no foul!
Pros
If the EPA catches wind of that black smoke, they will ensure some harm comes to the tug owners. These days, the EPA acts like it can write its own laws at will, and their inspiration for these “laws” is CARB.
I was quite surprised about problems with fuel filters being clogged. Have things changed since my seagoing days? All fuel was 100% purified on board before use with Alfa-Laval centrifugal purifiers that would remove any water contamination plus residual solids. We never had any engine failure due to fuel problems. Other problems, yes, but not fuel quality. I wonder if the use of low sulphur fuel has resulted in issues?
Our engine rooms were always manned as long as required, so changeover to bunker oil was not rushed.
Sulphur is a lubricant, so it's better for injection systems, but creates a lot of sulphur dioxide in populated areas. It also can feed filter-clogging bacteria. If it was a fuel problem, I can't see it as anything other than right-wing corporate greed trying to switch to bunker fuel before they were supposed to.
From what I've heard Low Sulfur fuel can cause hardening in rubber caskets and the like, and is also less hostile to bacteria that consumes hydro-carbons (a growing issue caused by what was formerly relatively rare organisms populations booming due to things like oil spills. They then finding their way into fuel tanks, where they reproduce (and die) exponentially, degrading the fuel).
Sal, I know absolutely nothing about the maritime shipping industry, however you explain perfectly to us land-lovers. Keep informing us so those who are interested may be informed. You need a Ships Fog horn sound at the end of your video's. Just a thought. 😏
Love the fog horn idea ❤
You obviously have never heard a fog- horn up close. Every bone in your body rattles.
I remember some years back, I had a fuel contamination issue in my work truck. it took drawing a sample, and holding it undisturbed for something like 36 hours, before the contaminant became observable.
I get what you are saying, but ships are very different,
@@bslturtle Fuel contamination is fuel contamination.
Not that simple.
@@bslturtle It's contaminated fuel. What's the difference? Please, explain
@@bslturtle yes, they are. they are a lot bigger and the steering stops working when the engine loses power. and they don't have a brake pedal.
but if your fuel has a contaminant that makes the engine stop running, I'm sure the engine stopping running is not much different on a ship than it is in a truck. you manipulate the go control and it doesn't go.
Thank you to the mariners, fuelers, fuel testing experts and ship inspectors, tug operators and crew, bridge repair people, mechanics, I don't know WHO ALL! who keep our civilization running and safe. I never thought before how important these things really are.
Almost ALL are men as well!
The fuel is part of the issue not just the ships
We take our infrastructure for granted until something disrupts it.
Its a little sus that another ship had lost power and hit a bridge.
So lucky tugs where there.
@@jjk2one Imagine if the people who handle the fuel from production to distribution didn't do their jobs right. If it were NORMAL to have bad fuel, nothing would be making it across the ocean except sailing yachts.
In 1980 our boat came off the quay in New Orleans. The ship swung round to catch the current (Missisppi) but the main engine wouldn't start, We were drifting down on a very big bridge pillar. Finally after many tries it started. Cose. It was the MV Birchbank. Thhis sort of thing happens all over the world and all the time.
Why didn't y'all start the main before coming off the quay?
Happened to me. Engine stopped 100 feet from entering a river under a RailRoad bascule bridge. I rode it through with the tide.
Well THAT'S not gonna get RUclips clicks!
@@georgiarasmussen8343most ship engines are direct drive. No transmission/clutch if the engine is spinning so is the prop. So to go in reverse from ahead, you first have to shut down the engine swap the timing and fire it in reverse.
So actually, you guys KNEW all the time about this issue that was endangering folks' lives??
Two types of fuel for use outside the environmental control area. That like having a peeing section in a swimming pool .
No it was towed outside of the environment 😂
They do... that's why the littlest kids can't go past the rope! Of course, liquids mingle, and the big kids and adults are monkeys too, so they also pee in the pool. But an attempt to isolate the pee, at least in theory, is indeed made in vain.
No, its not like that at all. Burning it out at sea will not cause the same bad air quality in the city where the port is - thats what its about. This is the dirtiest fuel we burn anywhere and CO2 is not the concern here. Its not only bad for your precious lungs, the sulfur content literally causes rain to be more corrosive, doing bonus damage to infrastructure.
or like having your ECU have a "clean" mode for when your car is going through emissions testing.
It's like reformulated gasoline in metro areas. In SE WI the counties around Milwaukee use reformulated and out in the sticks you don't.
Hi!!! About the Dally. I worked 37 years as a Marine Engineer Officer finishing my career as Chief Engineer. Many years ago, we had a terrible problem on a ship. Suddenly and without notice we had black outs. We purged the injectors of the generators engines and they come again into life. We couldnt find the cause. We checked everything to no avail. The fuel system had a deaeration tank and from that tank the fuel went to the generators. Finally we discovered the cause. The ship had around 10 years. The fuel pipe that went to the deaeration tank from the service tanks was horizontal and maybe around 15 mts long. It happened to be that during the 10 years, sludge deposited inside the pipe reducing its diameter. So when the load on the engine increased, the fuel pipe was unable to supply enough amount of MDO to the deaeration tank. The level inside started to decrease until air was sucked into the generators pumps and stopped them. During the running and purging of the generators fuel systems, the level increased and the problem was solved until the next extra load. We dismounted the pipe, cleaned it and the problem was solved for good. Who could imagine it since that service tanks were filled with purificators and repurified continuosly... Maybe something like this happened to the Dally... Greetings from Argentina!!
I don’t understand that testing procedure. When I was hauling crude oil years ago, we had to sample the tanks before pumping. One sample from the top, and another from the bottom. Get temperature readings, then fill a flask halfway with each sample. Dissolve it with solvent, then put it in a heated centrifuge for several minutes. Then, you can tell how contaminated the oil actually is. Without that test, a lot of times the oil would look clear, and like honey (sweet crude, not Texas black). You’d never know how dirty the fuel actually is, without the proper testing.
the big difference here is, the margine of error is SIGNFIFICANTLY higher for ships going under that NY Bridge then the Bay Bridge in Baltimore. you can clearly see the shipping lane is like a full 1000 feet away from the span and assuming the ship didn't veer ridiculously off course, had little to no chance of hitting the span. One of the biggest issues with the Bay Bridge in Baltimore was just how little margin of error there was between the correct shipping lane and hitting the support; barely 100 feet from what I read.
Yes, it's like threading a needle with a ski rope
You said all of that to say what?
The bridge in baltimore shoulda have never been built in that style when it was in the year it was, was a money decision to use the cheapest bridge design possible
It wasn't the Bay Bridge that went down. It was the Key Bridge in Baltimore. The Bay Bridge is 2 spans side-by-side.
@@Anouyz ANY style bridge on piers that got hit that hard by a ship that big was coming down
If I remember correctly some of the fuel out of San Pedro had sand and debris in the HFO. I have changed fuel strainers and there was lots of yuck in the strainer. Both steam and diesel ships burn a heavy fuel oil ( bunkers ) HFO that’s a step or two above asphalt.
Years ago, (like 25), we burned Number 6 FO in our boilers. To me, that stuff was barely refined crude. I had a coverall that eventually I threw away. Once that stuff gets on your clothing, you can't clean it. Old guys on the job warned me about it but I had to find out the hard way.
@@oldgoat142 As a junior engineer on the APL diesel ships, I don’t know how many seven gallon cans of Citraclean I used to clean the HFO leaks. There’s a joke. Do you know what a MEBA gasket is? It’s a coffee can with bailing wire.
@@robertbrouillette6767 LOL! As one engineer to another, that's gold. I appreciate it.
@@oldgoat142 And when those diesel ships would come into port and they opened the doors to the crankcase and I saw that black goo SAE 30 weight lube oil I said, “I’m staying an electrician.” Today I do electrical work for HVAC systems and design electrical systems for boats using the ABYC standards and modular components. Also the refrigerated container vans. That is an entire field in itself.
@@robertbrouillette6767 I don't blame you for staying an electrician, although you have your own set of hazards.
That's pretty cool designing those systems. I know it's gotta be a ton of work, but if you're doing what you love, then it ain't work. Much respect to you.
In regards to some comments I keep seeing… just because ships losing power is uncommon but not rare, doesn’t mean it’s ok. Just because the public is now aware of the issue due to the Baltimore disaster, doesn’t mean it’s not a problem that needs to be addressed. This should be checked into.
If you can't identify the deep state yet, that's not good
it seems Team Biden do not want insurance companies to carry out investigations - only government agencies, probably directed by the CIA - that way the narrative can be entirely manipulated - anyway, it lets off the hook the insurance companies and puts the bill at the hands of the poor taxpayer again, whilst they've just stumped up 6 billion USD to a Taiwanese semiconductor company that is incredibly profitable, but Biden's just handed them a huge amount of taxpayer money - nice of him, like the US taxpayer can really afford that when they're already paying for vast amounts of weapons for Ukraine and Israel.
You can't make losing power illegal, and expect that to change anything, so I assume you have some solution in mind as to how it needs to be addressed? No ship Owner/Captain/Crew/Pilot wants to have these kinds of problems, either. They are very expensive for everyone.
@@jimbeckettplay that would be up to the NTSB. Often times when we look further into the details on issues, we find that the NTSB has already made recommendations but they were not followed through. An occasional black out costs less than expensive ship repairs and extensive training.
Yeah but what a coincidence that all of a sudden these ships seem to lose power around these massive bridges wake up people where under attack wake up!!
I've heard many anecdotal stories of outages caused by fuel change-over. Sometimes it's bad fuel, sometimes it old fuel that had sludge in the bottom of the tank that clogged the filters and/or jets. Sometimes it had to do with changing the jets. I'm told this is why there have been so many issues/outages/loss of propulsion incidents near shore since IMO 2000.
And sometimes throwing the selector the wrong way.
Dirty fuel will shut an rv with a 350Cummings down in a flat second.
Thanks Sal for another timely update on shipping events.
As a merchant mariner it's a lot going on out here
From Staten Island here. We make sure there are tugs and pilot boats with all container ships all ships to be honest.
There they want it as cheap as possible. That's why these things happen.
It's always the money
The Verrazzano Narrows Bridge has rocks surrounding the bases of the towers that extend 60 ft out from the concrete base. In this case the shipping channel is far from the tower bases but would they be sufficient to bring a large container vessel (Dali) to a stop before damage was done to the base? These rock barriers were put in place when ships were a lot smaller than they are now.
I had an experience in the Kills. I was the Chief Mate on a SeaLand containership outbound from the terminals in NJ. It was night and pouring rain and suddenly the foremast light went out. the secondary also went out. I am on the bridge with the Master and Pilot. The bosun and electrician and AB are on the bow standing by the anchors. I informed the Master and Pilot of the problem and said I would have to leave the bridge and replace the bad bulbs myself. It was a little bit scary climbing up the foremast in the pouring rain and then replacing the bulbs, but it had to be done and I was the only one available. I had the foremast light working by the time we hit the lower bay. And NO I was never on a ship that lost power.
There might have been contamination already inside the Dali's tanks, and the addition of
new fuel may have stirred up that residual contamination, holding it in suspension, and causing issues with the main diesel and/or the backup diesels.
Its not enough to test the fuel before it goes into the ship's tanks. Tests also have to be run on the fuel, once its in the ship's tanks. When I ran a service station, we did these tests every week, and also just after a fuel delivery, for both gasoline and diesel tanks.
Or it could be fuel pump failure. There's a maritime engineer who's been on who runs down the list and systems involved. The ship lost 2 generators as well as the backup didn't come immediately online as required. To restart the engine you have to have electric power. He didn't believe the main engine was ever restarted and the black smoke was from one of the generators. Perhaps changed tanks to heavy fuel to get it started?
Anyway since he works ships like the Dali until further word I'll trust him.
It takes some time for the fuel change over to take place. So it wouldn't be too unusual to shortly after leaving the dock to start the changeover. So that once the ship is in open water that the changeover is complete. Also it would highly unusual for the engine room not to be fully manned while leaving the dock. But remember this ship only has 21 employees. This includes the bridge crew deck handlers cooks etc. Not a large crew. The fuel issue doesn't explain loss of both headway power and electricity. The ship was having electric power issues when at the dock..
21-23 sailors is normal
Correct. The generator engines, especially any backups, would not be burning heavy fuel.
Anyone who commences fuel changeover during maneuvering should be held liable for any damages. I highly doubt any CE would entertain this thought. Changing fuel over can take hours and also has a high probability of failure, if not done correctly.
I had exported autos from the US in the 1990's.
Then, containers had a ''Bunker'' fee added because #3 Diesel had to be used in lieu of ''Bunker C'' to lower pollution...sulfur.
The fee was about USD300 per container.
So it was about more money for the govt., right?
@@janetphillips2875: It was about healthier environment for the people.
@@janetphillips2875 As usual, yes.
@@janetphillips2875Changes like this are the reason you don't hear about *acid rain* in the West much these days. Because these changes have basically ended in NA/Europe.
I have steered a large Navy ship into and out of NY and Norfolk and Charleston in the early 70s. I never realized how my life depended upon the Engineers, Thanks guys. Sorry it took so long.
Now consider the following:
America has had “no child left behind” for about 20 years now.
We’ve had “every kid gets a participation trophy” for even longer.
Imagine the types of “engineers” that are getting churned out of the woke universities these days.
We in bad shape.
@@alitlweird Military recruitment is 60k below their goal. Our military is shrinking cause no one wants to fight for our country.
@@denniscrork318I can’t say I blame them. This country is too divided to think it’s a good idea to fight rich men’s wars.
@@denniscrork318A bit off topic, but I know veterans who have awful experiences getting medical care through VA and TriCare. US military medical is underfunded and a disincentive to volunteer to fight.
@@denniscrork318 why do you think nobody wants to fight for our country? Nobody wants to give their life or health for a foreign power or in service to a government that hates us
The very first thing I said when I saw the first video was "Fuel problem" and looked up refineries in the region to see if any were near the loading dock. Inconclusive. This whole concept of burning "cleaner" fuel while in US waters and switching to the cheapest, but more problematic, alternative ASAP really does sound like Occam's Razor in action. Something about this entire tragedy is finally making sense.
You actually have it backwards..the ultra low sulfur "clean" fuel is about emissions not how clean it physically is.
Most ships have scrubbers (the same as a power plant) to clean emissions but the US still requires the ultra low sulfur fuel.
I'm not an expert, however there are people in threads who are in the maritime industry who can, and do, explain it well.
I think you mean “Murphy’s Law” (“What can go wrong will go wrong.”)
Occam’s Razor is an entirely different concept ( “The simplest explanation…or path or whatever!… is probably the best explanation.”)
@@petergibson2318 Occam's Razor :- "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" which would been understood by an educated person of his age. Quite a negative commentary of our present "education" system. Translated the razor (because it "cuts away" all long-winded concepts) really says " The explanation with the least number of assumptions is usually the correct one." NOT simplest BUT least assumptions. Murphy's law is just a "joke" and I prefer O'Tools' Commentary on Murphys law:- "Murphy was an optimist" We mostly agree but I hope you can see my points. Thank You, Sir.
I agree with the fuel concern but disagree with the presenters statement. The really poor quality fuel (close to crude oil) is consumed at the open sea and cleaner fuels like #2 or #6 low sulfur consumed in port. I previously owned a diesel sailboat and although it had much smaller capacities, I kept a close watch on the water separator as the rectangular fuel tank often had a small layer of condensed moisture. With the right wind (motor sailing) condensate could be drawn into the separator and everything works until it gets full. When you get to a much larger ship like this, fuel consumption increases exponentially. I don't know if all engines draw the same fuel but complete failures of diesel powered electrical and propulsion systems seem to indicate fuel. Somewhere around the equator, moisture may have entered the tank through a simple vent fitting and slowly condensed as temperature cooled. However, one image before the bridge impact is quite concerning - heavy black smoke from exhaust. Black smoke usually means something is burning inside the cylinders which is good. Heavy black smoke usually indicates an engine operating at extreme output which could have been a defense tactic by engineering (full speed reverse) to slow the vessel down. I'm not a registered engineer or captain but have spent years around diesel engines. Diesel fuel problems are typically caused by algae or water (or both). I doubt there is any measurable fuel contamination but a deep inspection of the fuel tanks and water levels is in order. If fuel filters were plugged or contaminated with water, we might see white smoke but it is highly unlikely to create a huge column of black smoke. FWIW.
Thanks for the update and good luck with your conference!
A long haul truck driver I know had a problem with his diesel fuel in his truck a couple years ago.He kept changing filters like every two to three days, then it got worse. He found that he had algae growing in the tanks from the condensation moisture in the tank. Emptied the tanks, steam cleaned them and started using an algaecide and has not had any problems since. Do ships test for moisture in the tanks?
When we bought the house we live in 31+ years ago, it was heated by diesel #1 & #2 or a blend depending on the time of year and temperature. one thing the supplier checked for was moisture in the tank. Furnace and tank now part of the shop. Just brainstorming an idea.
With all the suppliers of fuel in the world to the jobber, it would seem that it would be easy to get a bad batch of fuel and once that fuel goes from one person to another and to the ship, then responsibility for the cleanliness of the fuel becomes blurred.
On a side note. When people cut corners in industry and other places, break established guidelines then it creates more regulations and rules. If ships are fudging on when they switch fuels to save money, quite possibly it may someday come to a point where they are required to have a second person on board besides the pilot to monitor the engineering crew and use of fuels. If power blackout was an issue found to be fuel related on the Dali, if the crew was trying a fuel switch, they will find that the cost of the accident will far exceed any savings in switching from a higher cost fuel to a cheaper fuel. If a ship is running great after leaving dock then it will pay dividends to stay running on current fuel and settings until in a wider channel, a berthing/anchor area or open water. Will there be more rules by ports for having tug tows/escorts until out of the port areas to open sea? Time and the NTSB findings will tell.
Aircraft have the same problem, moisture in the fuel causes microorganisms to grow in the tanks.
@@Mike-rl2sc There was a RUclips video a while back about a guy that crashed his plane because he did not do the fuel/water sample at the bottom of the tank pre flight.
8:30 I've had a strong suspicion about this for awhile. After all, it was in the middle of the night, who was around to see their exhaust? What is infathomable to me is how the authorities waited 2+ days to board the boat, giving the crew plenty of time to purge the lines and appear clean. Something stinks...
Ahhh Maybe
I work on a harbor tug in a very busy port. Ships have pretty major problems all the time. Holds are common.
Still waiting for someone to explain/discuss the interview of the dockworker that said, in a news interview, the Dali was having serious electrical problems just prior to departing
Can we assume, given that there are tens of thousands of ships, that at least one loses power fairly frequently and we're only paying attention now because of the unfortunate bridge disaster?
I concur, that is a safe assumption
The first thing to understand . They are not taking care of the ships enough and the captain and chief engineer are in charge. Listen to him about fuel,
Oh yea so is that the same way you think about Boeing too?! Smmh
@@George-dy3pt That is, indeed, the situation with aircraft, Boeing and otherwise. I have heard stories about airliners circling while an engineer talks the pilots through electronic glitches. Not a comforting thought to know that aircraft have no mechanical backups.
@@georgiarasmussen8343Aircraft have lots of redundancy. That's a topic for another channel, though.
In the 90's I sold a nice clean hydrocarbon material (mixed hexanes) to a company that cleaned out bilges. That clean out process produced a slop material that was dewatered, filtered and became MDO if it met spec. Going forward it will be interesting to hearing the story on the as found condition of the ships tanks and fuel system.
I recall in the 70's when supertankers began to be constructed, the concern around the fact that these very large ships had just one screw and one huge diesel engine. With just one engine if it fails you've got no engine, as opposed to steamships in the past that would have 2 or 3.
There was also a lot of concern in the 70's regarding liberian ship registration, and the lower safety requirements that it engendered. That grift has since extended to Panama and other places. What was artfully hidden at the time was that liberian registration was actually us registration, the liberian registry was started by a us state dept employee, and all the registration work was actually done in NY, Liberia is just a post office box.
So, in light of that kind of stuff, hard to specify or demand safer designs.
I used to boat / fish in that whole area and I can tell you the amount of large vessel traffic was constant. Also on a side note, a friend went to go for his Pilot Masters license and told me ( *edit - back in the early 90's ) that in the test they would give a blank piece of paper ( many feet square ) and one would have to draw my memory the whole outer and inner NY harbor with every rock, sunken wreck and sandbar as of that day of the test. Rather daunting. The Pilot jobs would often go from Father to Son, nepotism at it's finest.
My son is an apprentice pilot in NY. I can assure you the nepotism thing is long gone in major ports. They accept only graduates from the US maritime academies, who have been to sea for some number of years. It varies somewhat around the country, but it is not unusual for a pilot to hold a masters license. The NY apprenticeship is nearly 5 years long and involves incredible amounts of training, testing, and conning ships under the guidance of an experienced pilot into every nook and cranny of the harbor system from Sandy Hook, to the end of Long Island, to Albany (yes ocean going ships can get to Albany).
The nepotism left that business by the early 90s, at least in New York. By then, the pilots were no longer picking their own apprentices, but hiring others to do so.
As far as the pilotage test, there are multiple tests. If one is sitting for the federal pilots license, the tests are broken into different bodies of water. If there is a chart for it, that body of water is the test. So, for NY harbor, there is a Lower Bay test, and an Upper Bay, as well as tests for the Kill Van Kull, Arthur Kill, North River, and the East River, which has three charts and three different sections on which on can test and be licensed.
The State also tests, and, iirc, that test is more comprehensive, and you can sit for it once. Pass or fail. Done.
I have taken some of the Federal tests, not the state. The Old Federal tests were to start with a blank sheet of graph paper and draw the chart from memory. I think this went out in the 1970s. Anyway, by the 1990s, the sheet of paper had the outline of the shore and nothing else. The rest was drawn from memory, and in any case, passing required a score of 90%.
@@danmc7815 Yes, I should have specified when I was told this about the test. Main topic was a pilot needs to be very aware of the shifting sandbars etc.
@@danmc7815 I updated my post stating I was told in the early '90s.
Well, the pilots SHOULD know every little hazard in his area. Otherwise, it kind of defeats the purpose of having pilots in the first place. The ship already have a captain who knows how to steer his ship. What the captain don't have is detailed local knowledge specific to getting in and out of that port.
Thanks sal, for the quick updating of recent events. Keep it up 🙏🙏🙏
THANKS: Prayers for Wisdom and discretion for your panel
It happens more often than you would think for a variety of reasons... bad fuel engine/generator failure fuel pump failures etc luckily the ships recover and get their power back almost all the time
I think that depends on "how often you actually think it happens"!
I would compare it to a fatality in a construction site. Does it happen often - no, not really, but if there are a lot constructions sites, it adds up.
And there are a lot of ships about.
@tjampman I've been in the industry 40 years it happens every single day but the crews are able to get a handle on the situation and avert a possible disaster almost all the time unfortunately like the Key Bridge sometimes you do everything you can and it's just not enough
@@robbubba8020 Or it happens at just the wrong time
@@robbubba8020 ships don't have blackouts everyday! Come on man!
I have sailed for 4 years on cargo ships, and I have only experienced it once!
What I said was there are many ships, so of course it will happen regularly with random ships.
But it is not a normal thing.
great info as usual....So much more than what's available in the "media". BTW Sal, when we were homeschooling and joined a co-op of other liked-minded folk, our job was to set up field trips for the group. A friend recommended we join the Navy League because they took frequent trips and had a special relationship with the Navy. We were welcomed warmly by the local chapter. 40 kids plus adults haha. Took a tiger cruise on USS Stethem during Seafair and toured Ohio and Georgia while they were in port. Also got to see TRITRAFAC, and other military facilities around the Northwest, including demos of Coast Guard SAR and a C-17 flight simulator at JBLM. Huzzah to the Navy League.
The “black-boxes” on all ships should be required to record when and where they use that filthy High Sulphur fuel. The entire shipping industry is still in the “Wild-West” when they reach International Waters. (Sanctioned Russian oil is being transferred into “neutral”tankers….smuggled… on the high seas RIGHT NOW.)
Thanks! I always come to your site for shipping information. You do it just right.
Appreciate the updates ! This is all so interesting
As a land locked "sailor" who has no clue about shipping, I do appreciate your channel already for quite some time. Its getting truly interesting now and I am learning a lot of interesting stuff. Thanks... it keeps at least my head in the game! 💃
Dang freshwater pirates 😉
Captain Couch of the good ship Observer
mayam6678 you commented the samething, pretty close, on another channel. Can we say dirt 😮 😂😂😂😂
👏 Sal is the only knowledgeable individual who can produce great informative piece out of Motel 6 🥰
It's got a standing lamp. Definitely an upgrade 😉.
Thank you for making these videos. So informative and interesting!!!
Thank you very much for sharing your time and work Sal, I learn something new each time I catch up with you, peace
Gotta check those water separators and Raycor filters.
Thanks Sal
As always, Dr. Sal Mercogliano - the trusted word on shipping related activities without the talking head opinion, hype and conjecture found on MSM! This incident could easily create a storm of conspiracy (not that there couldn't be one...) and hysteria around recent container shipping incidents.
Could be? There already IS one! smh
Wow! I leave for vacation for a week and youve got tons of new videos to catch up on. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for your information about the fuels used by container ships. I learned a lot.
Thank you!
imagine your ship loses power, you effect repairs and leave the area safely....
*MAKES WORLD NEWS*
It makes you question the possibility of cyber warfare or bad actors infiltrating the industry...we are at war.
yeah, in the middle of the ocean it wouldn't - when you have two ships losing power right next to major bridges just outside of major ports and this is a very rare event indeed, then of course it makes world news - considering we're already starting World War 3, the US is making more and more enemies by the second and the US destroyed the Nord stream infrastructure And is sitting by supporting Israel with weapons whilst tens of thousands of innocent people are being killed - so yeah, the idea that folk might retaliate by attempting to take out US infrastructure, is just totally unbelievable yeah????
Thanks for the report Sal.
Thank you, Sal. I see you are in my neck of the woods. The NY-NJ incident is near the site of my undergraduate days in NJ on the Hudson River. Also I had done 2 oceanographic research cruises the length of the East River in 1980 & 1982. Brings back memories.
also time for shipping companies to pay the full cost of accidents not the taxpayer
It's possible for fuel to become contaminated on the ship, though it is pretty rare. Fuel temperature is maintained in service and storage tanks by steam heating coils. A leak in a steam coil would cause condensate to accumulate at the bottom of a fuel tank and possible enter the fuel oil service system. It would also cause oil to collect in the boiler feed system and should be caught fairly quickly though.
Independant emergency backup power sources?
I know Navy vessels have multiple redundancy options.
I'm sure backups exist. If not I'd be amazed.
Thanks for the informative update.
Never saw that coming, again! I see a need for more tugboats.
I would not get on a big, ocean going ship, in the month of April. Bad things seem to happen.
or the US stop attacking other countries around the world that may wish to retaliate!!!!!
Quick question…are these ships made my Boeing? 😂😂.
Anyways Great analysis as always.
Years ago I was reading about biodiesel for cars. I remember the articles saying how biodiesel was a cleaner fuel but people that switched would often have fuel filter clogs. The biodiesel would clean the inside of the tanks and the sludge and dirt in the tank would end up in the filters. I wonder if something similar is happening here.
This incident reminds me of something that happened a few decades ago (I don't recall the year let alone the date) when the APL China lost power during a typhoon outbound from Japan heading to Seattle. My wife was then employed by the operations subsidiary of APL and became involved even before the APL China arrived at Terminal 5 in the Port of Seattle. It was quite a mess having lost a number of containers (a few hundred, maybe more) and with many of those still aboard that were not lost but had broken loose plus many that had also been damaged so that the contents were exposed and spilled out on the decks.
I'm wondering if there isn't pressure to switch fuel due to the price difference. You'd think the more refined the fuel the more expensive it is. Could there be pressure from the bean counters to switch over too early ? How do they filter their fuel ? I'm wondering if better filters would help or if the additives in the cleaner fuel upsets the consistency of the dirtier fuel....... Maybe a good question for your engineer friends on another joint episode.
Bingo. follow the money. and in this case, I really hope the investigators scrutinize Synergy’s past skimping and cost-cutting measures (and in the case of trying to skirt the ECA rules , it’s not just about being subjectively cheap; It’s willfully breaking the law…. while also sharply increasing overall ship safety/risk in Harbor /coastal areas)
The administration wants electric ships! 😂😂😂😂
I could only imagine people in the late 1800: they want to travel on a high speed incendiary bomb when we have perfectly good horses. 😂
I always knew you would have a big channel.. I wish you all the best
Dr. Sal Thank You for bringing this and learned discussions ! Great details.
The maritime insurance companies, one way or another, will probably be all over these recent events.
re Dali it was their "large" or "excess" refrigerated containers that were tripping electric power at port hours and days before underway; they need to look there also to find root-causes or contributory causes.
Quick question. With no knowledge of commercial shipping, I was surprised to learn that some big ships like the Dali have a single screw. I was wondering if that design poses a safety problem in shipping in general - meaning how frequently do large single screw ships encounter damage to a propeller or shaft that results in major issues? I know this had nothing to do with the Baltimore incident, just wondering in general. Is the single screw design a cost versus risk situation? I suppose just from an economic point of view, you can't have redundancies in every system. Thanks! Have really enjoyed your channel since learning about it post Baltimore incident
Single screws are cost effective.
Keeps families together too.
@@Skidderoperator I'm a single-screw man! I'm gonna use that...
One large, slow screw is the cheapest to design and most fuel-effective at sea, but sacrifice maneuverability. However, most large ships today have a bow thruster which SHOULD more than make up for the single screw, but most are electrically powered, so if there's a blackout...
@georgiarasmussen8343 The issue is bow thrusters only work below speeds of 3 knots and require a LOT of power.
If this event had occurred a few minutes earlier, possibly another bridge would have gone down. These bridges were built before these huge ships existed and were not designed for that heavy of an impact. So my question is - who approved the access of these huge ships to those ports knowing that they had to pass under bridges that were not designed to handle the impact? Seems to me that someone had to approve it, and seems to me that the approval process isn't working properly.
Big ships were going in and out of Baltimore long before this bridge was built... and there's no reason you can't later reinforce the piers of a bridge that wasn't sufficiently protected...
It's not a who's sailing big ships problem... In this case it's a who decided to not reinforce the bridge piers problem...
@@PRH123 Big ships, but how big? I am going by what I recall Sal saying about the Key bridge. Maybe I am remembering wrong. But yes, the approval should not have been made without reinforcing the bridge first. A failure of the approval process.
@@pithicus52 nope, it's not, the ships were there before the bridge
you can't tell people (including foreign countries and your own shipping companies) that they have to stop their shipping for 4 decades because you want to build an inadequate bridge...
@PRH123 yea it's the bridges fault not the captains huh?! You're a gd genius Gump
@@George-dy3pt well Georgie, seems to be your assumption that the bridge is at fault, not something that I said…
Thx Sal for your excellent insight on maritime shipping.
Great timely background info, Professor. Thx.
And enjoy your talk at the Expo.
*Are those hull diagrams on the new shirt? Kudos.
Thank you for the piece. Just wondering, seems like the structure wise, safety wise, propulsion wise, not much has changed for last 30 years.
Change is afoot with the new propulsion and emissions standards.
Also.. as a person big into sensors and ai for ag.. they will have more sensors and satellite trackers... its way ahead of 25 years ago
You're very interesting and easy to listen to. I'm an old gal who used to sail around the inner harbor and under the Key bridge back in the 90's. The racing boat I crewed on got blasted more than once by the big ships as we got too close to the channel !. I live in NC now and retired so this saga of the Dali captured my attention. Do you think Baltimore will consider requiring tugs for every ship leaving the Patapsco from now on?
Sal's my guy whenever modern transport shipping info is needed.
You are a stats guy. Would love to see your dive into how many ships lose power, lose controls or other anomalies each year and maybe some causes or trends you might see happening… would be interesting to see if this is unusual or is happening more than most of us know…
Two types of fuel for use outside the environmental control area. That like having a peeing section in a swimming pool
More like having a non peeing area. The majority has pee lol
The most striking thing about this video is how the "test" is done.
solid info, thanks for clear concise layout of data.
Thank you for telling the real story and not diving into wild conspiracy theories.
The AI immediately deleted any comment that raises other possibilities beside accident.
Using ships to cause collisions with bridges and shore facilities, by cutting engines remotely when in bad spot, by using built in backdoors of equipment bought from China as that is requirement by CCP and CCP military, so its conspiracy theory. Except its one that governments see as real treat, just like EV's built in China, that also can be remotely disabled by the company and block traffic, hell cause even potential fire if BMC is tinkered with remotely to cause thermal runaway, or speed controls are set to max and all user controls are disabled to cause collisions.
But hey those are just conspiracy theories, silly governments right? Until those become just conspiracies....Thankfully i live far enough from cities that even with large number of EV's would be imported to our roads, long as i'm home, such event would not effect me much.
But you KNOW the Illuminati demand we use biodiesel!
Seriously, anytime we use electronic navigation and control systems, which are understood by only a fraction of the world's population, they are prone to being hacked. And the District of Columbia has made a LOT of enemies around the world.
I'm wondering if it would be more practical today to try and do something like NSS Savannah, but designed as a transoceanic barge hauler. With increasing pressure on the shipping industry for the at-sea pollution impacts, and the economies of scale that nuclear power offers, it seems like that niche might have a chance to reopen.
Youd have to keep it VERY quiet, otherwise the environmentalists will bitch and moan, and you will be stuck in litigation hell for 20 years
The Savannah experiment wasn't successful in the end because of the huge cost. It's a showstopper.
@LeonSteelpaw I agree that it used to be that way, but honestly at this point they've finally figured out that bunker fuel and the indirect+direct costs are worse with fossil fuels for the most part. Small nuclear is getting a huge revitalization right now, with a huge influx of funding for new designs, hence the question
@@PRH123 back in the day? Yep. AEC+DOD means infinite money. I'm picturing something along the lines of an Oklo or other non- single- customer core, using LEU/HALEU to avoid refinement issues.
@@cassgraham7058
I sincerely hope it actually moves forward, we NEVER shouldve moved away from Nuclear Power in the first place
Thank you.
@wgowshipping, Sal ships with an exhaust gas scrubber actually have a sensor on the change over valve, to record what fuel is being used.
Also as an engineer I would never switch fuel in a port. Changing fuel I do out at sea, with ample free space around the ship, just in case.
I once have been standby to switch from mdo to hfo while entering a port (we changed to mdo outside at the line as we should) but that was because we had been sailing in a storm the whole Atlantic crossing and burned way to much diesel to keep the generators running as the shaft was a no go. so we were out.
Luckily it was not necesary. And we could stop the ME just at 50% left in the daytank. Office knew, CG knew, harbour master knew, and the bunker barge was already waiting for us at the quay. We already had gone into the mdo bunker tanks to strip the last cubics out, that's how far we go, to NOT have to do some weird changing over, or sail into a port on HSHFO.
Getting up at night to change over, please that's the least of problem, I live 2 minutes from my job. with nothing else to do. And if you got a good CE, you won't work the hours the day after you spent at night in the ER. (although most of the ships in my company run a manned ER, so it's just another job during the watch then)
Love the lamp
Sounds like regulations need to be updated to eliminate those fuel issues.
OMG! More regulations! No Republican will ever vote for that.
I mean, authorities waited 2.5 days to board the ship after the crash. Do you think more regs would help, or do we just need clean government, immune to being paid off, or purged of sympathies for Big Business?
It's been weeks now since the Dali took out the Key bridge and still no interviews with the pilots. If everything was on the up and up, this would not be the case. They should have been interviewed by the media ASAP, the day of the incident. The investigation is not transparent. What's really going on? Was the Dali a victim of GPS spoofing? A cyber attack like the ones played out back in the 90's - such as the Pentagon War game ELIGIBLE RECEIVER 1997.
I don't know about present day operations, but in my time ALL fuel went through a Purifier/centrifuge before it entered the service tanks. The lube oil in the engine was also purified 24/7 .The fuel and oil was then filtered before use in the engine.
Thanks for the update, Sal!
Think any of these high-publicity incidents will have an effect (knee-jerk or justified; right or wrong) on the future of ship design--in terms of redundancy requirements etc?
@@kylekorona Nope. These companies are international and hire the cheapest labor possible. Same end result though.
FYI: there was that geofenced malware in Polish trains which the manufacturer activated when it lost the maintenance deal. If the trains were in the competitor's repair facilities or in certain other locations, the trains would not restart.
Zero correlation, association, or possibility. You are pushing a narrative.
Lean fuel will dry out the seals on the feul pumps. And bingo. They stop. Maybe a bit simplistic. But we have had so much problems with this issue
Shocking! A boat breaks down during a crucial maneuver? You don't say... who would have guessed.
Boats only fail at the worst times, never in port and never during calm weather, it a law of the Sea.
Murphy said that.
What do you call a string of rare coincidences?
@@soyoucametosee7860 That's CAPTAIN Murphy.
Does anyone track the causes for ships loosing power like this? Do they produce charts and graphs?
this happens all the time. what would be the point of that? maybe for a company tracking their own vessels, but outside of that, seems like a really stupid idea, with little or no actual value to the data.
This was a loss propulsion. Dahli was a loss of power. With loss of propulsion you still have steerage, with loss of power you have no steerage capability.
@@xisotopex if you track the data, you know what to focus inspections on and advise the ship builders what they need to improve on the blueprint level to prevent this sort of thing happening in the future
My dad was a Chief-Engineer on a Danish registered coaster on which i traveled with him on many school holidays as a kid in the early seventies. The routes were around Western-Europe's coasts and UK. Remember very well the many times during the night when the alarms would go off in his cabin while we were asleep and on-route in the middle of the North Sea or somewhere on the Atlantic between France and Ireland. Usually they were engine stalls due to cluttered fuel filters. Though not the same mechanical issues as cars had in those days, it did feel like they had a similar breakdown rate, a lot ;-)
Tku for info..much appreciated 🇨🇦🙌
Maybe tug escorts should be standard throughout the US?
Sounds like a market opportunity, go pitch it!
Next on StartEngine: AI powered drone tugboats
Minimum investment $203,201
I think they are in Vagas.😅
We don’t have the tugs or crews to do that.
@@pickeljarsforhillary102we're getting closer to self driving cars. Self driving tugs sound much easier but could still be hacked.
3:57 How about upgrading the protective mechanisms surrounding bridges. Until then place protective tugs.
Could just get scrap metal and fill up some cheap recycled steel tubes... better than nothing, recycles stuff, and makes jobs.. a triple win
Good ideas, but anything costs money. So the question is what's the best solution within the available funds? (I don't know the answer.)
If you’re at National Harbor for a few days, you might consider taking a ride on one of our ferries to Alexandria and DC. They might not be 100,000-ton ships, but I’d be happy to have you aboard nonetheless.
Super Thanks, Sal!
The fuel switch over looks like probable cause, should be an easy fix. Don't switch fuel till away from bridges !