IN THE FOREST OF THE NIGHT... || GERMAN watches Attack on Titan 4x25 - BLIND REACT-ANALYSIS
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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Keep going king your the best ❤
Keep going king your the best❤
I think it makes sense they didn’t talk about the WHYs here because of the timing: they just formed a shaky alliance and were trying not to kill each other. From that POV it makes sense not to talk about personal reasons in front of people that either betrayed you or just make you feel weird.
I'm not good with symbolism and stuff, but i think the shots of the branches are there to symbolize how they are trapped in the forest. Whenever they try to leave it, something is blocking the way out. History, fear, anger and the like.
Yes, definitely what they were going for I think. Loved that. :)
Levi is also a slave to someone/something, though not in the way Kenny suggests. He is a slave to his power. He feels like it is his duty to fight, that it is his duty to save people, to honor his comrades, and help humanity. He keeps fighting in a world where he won’t die, but everyone he loves will, and will leave him alone. But he keeps doing it anyway, because of his selfless and compassionate nature.
A slave in a good way. Awesome
I agree with you here have nice day❤
Agree 💯
Yes, agreed! =)
I’m late but Armin is probably the only character who actually addressed his role in the Liberio massacre. He spent an entire episode venting to crystallised Annie
Agreed, but not in the "oh my god fuck I am become berthold" which I at the point watching thought would have fit here really well. if we remember Armin in s3 breaking down after his first murder, contrasting that to him coming out of colossol and looking down at liberio burning like "oh, guess I am similar to berthold" was just weird for me. :D It is brought up later, so it does not matter anymore anyway :D
@@storieswithstyle This kind of reminds me of a quote I saw somewhere "A single death is a tragedy, 100,000 deaths is a statistic."
We have a hard time comprehending large numbers, and when we zoom out too far we lose sight of the individuals affected by tragic events. Armin's first murder was a single person, up close and personal, and it shook him to his core. His actions in Liberio are on such a grander scale that all he can really see is the zoomed out image of his destruction, not individuals suffering but scattered debris and broken houses. I think it makes sense that would affect him differently in the moment.
There's also a fairly sizeable time jump between season 3 and 4. I think it's assumed that our leading cast have been somewhat hardened by the events of the first 3 seasons and things we didn't get to see during that time jump. We know for a fact that Marley was sending scouting ships to Paradis, and while some were captured and turned into prisoners of war, I imagine there were many who went down fighting. It's very likely that Armin and everyone else has killed a lot more people between season 3 ending and what we see in Liberio.
True, but he did see the corpses. I think the statistic thing is more about facts you read and not experiences. Might have to read up on the details though, have not read that study in years
14:40 I went through that but the other way around. When I was a teen I had spine surgery and stayed at a hospital for 10 days. There I saw a lot of people who were completely miserable, like children who would literally live in their hospital room and not at their parents home. I developped this kind of philosophy that there was some hierarchy in people's suffering and that I shouldn't complain because there was always someone more in pain that I was. Later I realized that I was in the wrong, and I also realized how toxic it was for myself because I was not acknoledging my own suffering this whole time and that was really bad. I concluded that "ranking" people's suffering is complete bs and not my philosophy is that everyone's pain is valid
Yes, that is true. Ones own suffering is arguably the most real thing one can experience and downplaying it can really damage your psyche long-term =(
I hope every reactor is like you, have a good understanding of the situation, not just blindly following the characters they like, even though what the characters did are wrong
It is interesting, all characters are wonderfully written, though I dislike some obviously, but also love the writing for evoking those emotions :D
@@storieswithstyle isayama is f*** genius I think he is more genius than kishi (abt the plot twists & more) & how well written most of the character are, some characters we like it so much and some we just never like it, that means every characters are so well written. AoT is just an anime but we feel like we saw those characters as real humans. And if we see what hppned in scl media, how AoT split the fans and causing some fanw-a-r makes me more appreciating isayama. Thank you for your reaction, you really have a good understanding of the story. You can explore the depth of each character whether you like and you don't like. It sure needs talents to analyze it and you do have them.
@@lkhbbkps36 Yeah, i would currently say he is the best writer I know. =) I aspire to one day become as good as he is, I mean, everyone needs a dream :D
@@storieswithstyle you will one day I am sure 😊
8:33 I agree with Hange: “Yet I am sure none of them would be centered as to say as long as the island has freedom that’s all that matters” and then seeing Erwin, Miche, Petra, Levi’s squad, Nifa, Moblit, Hannes, makes me sad. Hange’s responsibility is hard bro, I feel so sad for Hange.
Yeah, hange is such a pog. made Special one all the more devastating =(
Yelena's question wasn't much of "wanting an answer" she just wanted to awake their hatred for each other.. and they don't have to answer we literally see through their face expressions how they feel about it + they already expressed their guilt about their actions in previous episodes (armin when he was talking to the crystal, Jean blaming eren and addressing floch killing civilians.. You know it was forced upon them by eren, because if they don't go they would lose the founding titan which is the only method they have to protect themselves..) but anyways your complaints were solved in special 1 ('sinners' chapter) so I hope you were satisfied
Yes, I was extremly satisfied and in hindsight it was not that bad, but Isayama still wrote himself into a corner a bit in this ep. Not adressing the stuff is weird, as they have to talk about it, but after everything it really feels liek "nah, not gonna tell you right now but later, so Jean randomly evades qustions" :D Specials made up for most complaints, though, they were perfection in my book =)
@storieswithstyle I actually felt that as the viewers, we already got the "answers" you were seeking. Sure they didn't all sit down to talk about the awful things they did and I guess...how sorry about it they were, but we already saw how Armin was horrified by what he saw from his actions blowing up the port, we saw Jean's hesitation when firing the thunder spear at the Cart Titan, Annie was clearly distraught about killing Marco and Riener developed a split personality because of all the stuff he was doing.
I wouldn't say it was Yelena accusing the others of doing awful things, more she was reminding them that they did in fact do such horrible things. And we already know how they all feel about it all. That's how I always saw it anyway.
@@TheAngelLewis5 I would disagree in hindsight. We will get all the answers I wanted here. But it just leaves this episode as "they had to talk about it but not reveal too much to not take away from the revelations in the finale." It is pure writing choice to not have them say it here and that irks me, beacuse it is the only time in the anime where Ifelt like "hey, not the time now to talk about this, it will be saved for later". Made the episode really obviously a written peice of fiction with the nature of being an anime being the driving force and not the characters...
@@storieswithstyle I think why they don't address it here is pretty simple. It's an uncomfortable topic that they don't want to address. They avoid the conversation because it scares them, because they fear their own actions
@@storieswithstyle
I truly don't think that it needs to be address back to Yelena, as she jogged into each memories, it's an excellent reminder that no one there were actually clean. Up to this point, each person had own sins. So it actually nice to remind them all to not be so self-righteous. Just to let them realized that they're all the same spot.
I mean, what can they answer, for example, Jean "Oh I'm so sorry I did tried to kill Falco there, it really was my bad.", and what next?
Don't get me wrong but I mean there was not actually too much to get from answering it. I think all of them knew it well deeply in their heart that they're all wrong. And Yelena's memories jogging was effective as they're all actually hated and killed each other, so to humble to is effective enough to let them not turning against each other while fighting Jeagerist and the Rumbling.
I know you always have some valid and strong point in your discussion, but I just don't feel like agree with you for this one, hope it doesn't too offensive or else, because I'm not good at English as you might notice here.
Anyway, great reaction still ❤
Since Ymir is apparently actively working to heal a titan shifter whenever they are injured, could Jean just keep punching Reiner's face to keep Ymir busy? I'm sure Reiner wouldn't mind that :)
Yes your ritht l fell şad for Rinier and gabi and Annie but l agree with you here have nice day my friend❤
Funny idea xd I love the image of it just Jean punching Reiner in the middle of the fight. Sadly it was said that the time in the Paths is both instant/faster and infinite/slower compered to real time so that would probebly do nothing.
**snap-cut to Pieck constantly exiting and reforming her Cart Titan**
Ymir: “This bitch…”
Hahaha, yeah, perhaps :D But I guess time is endless in the Paths so it would not matter :D
I’ve only stumbled onto your reaction/analysis series recently but I’ve really enjoyed each video. I’m only up to your season 2 reactions but so far I love how insightful your predictions and analysis are especially with your German and horror knowledge 😁.
Thank you! =) Hope you enjoy the ride! =) Soon it is finished =(
I want Levi, Gaby and Falco to survive
let's hope!
I want ME to survive till the end 😂 bc I am him, I am Levi Ackerman
Yeah, still one of the best revelations to me. =D
It is so easy, just ask Gaby to sho*t flock, it should be easy for Gaby, bc Gaby is super awesome sniper and flock is f weak, he can only speak "talk no jutsu"
Floch is top 5 odm fighter and def not just talk no jutsu 🤔
@@storieswithstyle Where do you read? bc from what I got before, the Top Tier ODM gear lists are:
1 Levi
2 Mikasa
3 Miche / Mike
4 Erwin
5 Kenny
6 Jean
7 Levi's squad
8 Levi's squad
9 Hange
10 Petra
As per their landing on founding titan:
1 LEVI
2 MIKASA
3 JEAN
4 ARMIN
5 REINER
6 CONNIE ( he can't land)
My own list 😁
1 Levi
2 Levi
3 Levi
4 Levi
5 Levi
6 Mikasa
7 Jean
8 Levi's squad
9 Levi's squad
10 Petra
@@anjungkusumawati6310 Going by his actions in 27, where he basically outmaneuvered all but Mikasa, so he is definitely 5 or 6 on your first list I would think. =) Looks like he trained a lot through the years as well. =D
@@storieswithstyle Some people in AoT community made a joke abt Floch that he is actually an Ackerman, they call him Floch "Ackerman"🤣
Great episode. One detail I love about this one is, when they talk about the blame of the tragedy of titan history. And they argue about it, the constant focus on the boiling soup, like their boiled up emotions of the whole tragedy.
Yeah, the Stew was such an awesome symbol! =)
Reiner wanted Jean to hit him. He kept pushing him to do it and didn't even try to defend himself. Reiner has wanted someone to punish him for a long time, as seen in his words to Eren in Liberio.
Also the words he uses when Jean says "I'm not apologizing to you" basically mean "that's how it should be", because he doesn't think Jean did anything that he needs to apologize for.
Also, isn't it interesting that Yelena disliked her own country so much that she was actively working to enable it's destruction?
The eldian restorationists weren't the only Marleyan citizens who hated their country.
Yes she is a Zeke worshipper but for the same reason the jagerists are, like you said a few eiposdes back: If someone can make your dream come true, you make them into your god.
Hange is my favorite so I'm always on her side
I agree. You can imagine my reaction to Special 1, then =( =(
@@storieswithstyle I cried a lot for the first time in this anime.
@@umatentativadecanal8793 me too :(
I dont think its easy for most people to open up in the first session even in much less messed up situations.
Even then having them listen quietly its a big step in my opinion.
Yes, I also appreciate this ep a ton more since finishing it. All my concernes have gone since I saw that my worries were addressed later. But that is the problems of reactions, i guess, not hindisght, as Armin would say :D
yes, Floch is VERY annoying lol
Nah
but he got a point
yes he is
i keep finding it weird how people seem to hate more on Floch then on Eren for example. Or that one Marleyan Guy who fed Grishas Sister to his Dogs.
@@TheBlackfall234 It's ok to dislike Floch. lol
I want Levi and Hange to survive till the end. I will quit the show if they don’t survive
28:02 they’re not accusations?? it’s just things that happened, no need for elaborate answers there they were just shitting on each other
For me as a watcher who wanted these things adressed they needed answers. As we got that later, I see this scene a lot differently, though. It did what it had to do and was pretty 👍
Magath sent Reiner, Annie, Marco and Berth...
Yes your ritht here my friend l love his episode iş amzing and sad one too have nice day❤
Yes, he did. And he realized What a shoitshow that was and that he never should have done it. He was a sh**face but at least bettered himself and tried to make his mistakes right.
You said Magath didnt send titans to them? What? He did.😅
Nice reactions anyway. The most thought full on RUclips. Blessing from Italy
I am actually unsure, was it not the former general? magath always seemed more protective of his cadets than other Marleyans would have been, but I have to look for that on the rewatch. =) All the best to italy, hope your weather is not as hot as it is here currently! =D
@@storieswithstyleMagath was shown training Zeke and the other warriors and has been the commander of the Marley military until he was ranked to general. While he did question himself and the military at times, (Such as S4 Ep3 during the warriors battle segment after Bertoldt transforms, he thought it was insane that they were sending kids to retake the founding) he was still responsible for training and sending these kids off. Despite his actions you could tell he wasn’t proud of it though, especially once he grows to care about those kids as shown with Gabi
Yeah, he was indoctrinated and probably knew survivors from Elida’s cruelties in the titan wars, so him turning in the end is almost as big as Gabi to me
In my opinion, this episode is one of the most important in the anime, because it conveys one of the key ideas of the series, its morality. All the characters sitting around the fire have their own experiences with losing loved ones to others, and they really should hate each other. But the problem is that ultimately they are here because they don't want genocide, they want to stop Eren. And this goal must rise above their personal grievances, because otherwise nothing will work out for them. Only by uniting can they do something. And, yes, it is not at all easy to act in concert with someone who was your enemy yesterday. But Hanji clearly understands that their cause is more important. That's why she's such a calm character in this scene. She has already made the choice to step aside, at least temporarily, through the personal for the sake of a common goal. And she also understands that it is impossible to completely ignore these contradictions. Therefore, in this episode the characters talk and fight with each other, but through this they at least partially come to the understanding that no one has the truth, everyone has their own. But they will have to cooperate to save other people. And this is the essence of the anime: if you want to stop war, genocide and endless hatred, you must step over your pain and hatred, otherwise they will consume you too and you will not be able to change anything
(by the way, Sasha’s dad is an excellent example of this, it’s just presented in a different way)
Yes, I totally agree, in hindsight it is really pivotal, but during tis reaction, I remmeber being so salty because all the moral questions were just asked and not aderssed. Took me a bit out of the episode tbh. As they were later adressed, I rate this ep a lot higher currently than on initial watch =)
Idk what they can say to Yelena about the accusations... They already understand their guilt for those actions.
And she isn't exactly asking in a way which teases out their thoughts or emotions about those actions. She is just spitefully trying to stir up their hatred for one another.
Only Reiner decided to get more personal, revealing how much his guilt eats away at him, which just led to Jean lashing out at him.
Yes, though I also would say that it was the standout moment of the ep because of that. :D
@@storieswithstyleyes probably! Although I love the opening scene too
I see your point. But I don't think that in the history of the world there are other characters that understand each other better without the need of talking. They all have been more or less the same. Slaves of something. They know why Reiner did that, he knows why they did cannot be forgiven even if they stop Eren and save the world. This was the episode they accepted it, and decided to just move forward.
Yeah, it was more of a writing criticism. We get what I wanted later, so I do not mind, it just felt like "not gonn atell you yet". but after I finished everything, this episode ranks a lot higher now. =)
I was really excited about this reaction AAAAAHH!!!!!!
14:00
I really don't think Magath has a point here AT ALL, even discounting the difficulty of comparing suffering.
He, someone who has never suffered at the hands of Eldians, is trying to justify his actions to a young man who has directly suffered and had his childhood ripped away because of his (And other Marleyans') actions. Jean is not responsible in any way for anything the past Eldians did, so how does that give Magath and the Marleyans any right to hurt him?
For someone so incredibly smart, sometimes your intellect interferes in your understanding of the characters. You want them (and therefore, the author) to think and act the way you would, instead of observing how they actually behave and trying to understand why they do so, from their perspective.
I would slightly disagree, but it is the problem I talked about erlier. I still know it is a story and want meaningful intreactions shortly before the end. I did not know we would get this stuff anwered, but as we did I see the episode differently today. Still, on first watch you get the real opinion and I think it sucks as an episode on first watch and is probably top tier on rewatch (just in my opinion of course).
Omg! Finally someone adressed it! I have the same complaint abt this episode, this was a brilliant opportunity to show amazing dialogue of the characters being conscious of their own actions, and also serve as a reminder to the audience that both parts were wrong, but it was wasted. Actually the episode intro hyped me up it was so good, and the no opening it's always a good sign, but, nah, instead there were lots of stew puns. Idk, this was kinda a disappointment for me. Also the part were Yelena said that Sasha was so sweet, I think that was to please the fans, bc It is forgotten that Sasha also killed people that Gaby cared for, this was the perfect example of wasted potential. Actually this, and the two episodes that came before, especially the last one are my least favorite episodes of the show, bc I think the dialogue is not the same as before, but what's to come is better in my opinion
Yeah, I think especialy on first watch this is a dud. I do like it a bit more after everything is finished as it was somehow necessary, but the dialogue that was missing so to speak came later and yeah, that is okay if Isayama does not want to reveal it here, but still was weird. I mean, they had to talk about something, but Jean just going "I like Stew" was really a bit cop-outy :D I acutally really liked the two episodes before, but the next to I reall ydespise with a passiuon now as in the end they could have been condensed to like 15 minutes and most stuff was filler :D
I love his episode they all fell bad things they did tho have nice day my friend❤️
Why listen to dialogue when you can infer through expressions and actions?
Because Isayama is a master in conveing complex emotional situations through dialogue and I just wanted to expeireince that one more time before the end (and I did, hjust later in the specials) :D
@@storieswithstyle Fair enough :)
01:38 since you’ve already seen everything, I can’t believe that (SPOILER):
You were right! I was shipping them for over 10 years but I didn’t expect them to survive, so it took me by surprise when they got together 🥹 and it makes sense, because who else would understand Mikasa and her love for Eren?
Wrong here, Magath sent titans to the Island, and not only. He was the one who sent Reiner, Bert etc ... Even if it was not directly his choice, he was in it. In fact, he was responsible for the warriors program. And as a high ranked general in the army, when he was younger, he participated in the punishement for Eldians, when they turned them into titans weapons for wars. He even participated in the war against the mid east alliance, and used Zeke's power to take Fort Slava. Even if Zeke was the one to do it. Magath was the one who decided that.
Yes, but the thing is that Magath is one of the few characters that realises he f''d up baldy, and tries to make it right. especiall yhis self-hate for sending child slodiers :(
@@storieswithstyleyou’re right. It’s not like we had a lot of time inside Marley to see if there’s more people who agreed with Magath (i suppose there was) but he is really disgusted at how Marley turned out, and wanting for Marley to stop their evil ways was one of the strongest reasons as to why he went along with Willy’s plan.
Yeah. magath was definitely almost a mirror to keith in the end (a bit on the nose in 28 as well), and we simply did not really spend time with many marleyians and even the few we had time with, they had doubts and stuff (like the guards trying to safe Gabi and Falco). marley and Eldia both did heinous stuuff, though.
check the manga version of this dinner. way better in my opinion. I don't like, for example, everytime they show landscapes to avoid showing something or relax the vives. The confrontation should feel more coocked up to almost boiling and then make it rest like a stew. I love that metaphor
That does sound more aawesome, but I also like the forest analogy they went for. =)
@@storieswithstyle they also keep it at the manga but the tension they build isn't lowered so often. I think 4x05 did an amazing job in terms of tension (feels like a forking bomb) and this time they had it easier and didn't cook so well. When tyburr is explaining everything was easier to disconnect due to the overwhelming info but now is emotional/character conflicts we already watched. The moment Jean kicks Reiner should feel better. Like satisfying and sad but more intense.
and yes I'm just being too picky, this anime is so good I'm complaining about small tone personal preferences.
(btw, as I didn't manage to check yesterday's direct. I watched Frieren and thanks for discovering it to me. That story made me so happy. I'ts the kind of tale I love to watch. Long time without feeling soo good about a story)
@@DorianMauleon Yeah, frieren is awesome! It is so bittersweet and I love it. =) I need to read the aot manga, perhaops after my move. =)
i don't understand why are you so fixed with things being adressed, nothing is going to change what happened even if they apologize or say that they feel bad about it. Most important thing that they must do is to focus on the mission and look to the future
Not apologize, acknowledge it, it would have been enough even had they had internal dialogue. But that is moot as it was done exactly as I wanted in the specials. :)
@@storieswithstyle understandable, thank you for taking the time to answer! i loved going through this show again with you, glad i found this channel
Glad you enjoyed :)
why wouldnt people want to talk about how they killed hundreds if not thousands of people? Oh, I don't know, maybe because they are not psychopaths??? nobody from this group was cheering or happy when they invaded Liberio, of course they felt bad. They dont even make eye contact with each other when the topic comes up, because they are ashamed
That is my point. Grow some balls and stand up for your mistakes. but then again, they do it later, so it is fine
Eren is more like Lord to mikasa. And in Japanese culture,lord and God shared some features. And emperor is basically demigod.Loyalty is vital.
❤
I don't think there are any answers to Yellena's questions. because what can Armin say? should he say that he felt bad ? it's meaningless.. when you kill someone you don't deserve to feel sorry for your self and people shouldn't feel sorry for you either. but the thing is they had to other choice and war is a terrible thing.. so really the answers are meaningless
Of course there are answers! They were even given in the specials. :D I think this episode was pretty good in hindsight, as my crititicisms have been rexolved by the end of the show. I do think you deserve to feel sorry for yourself, though only to not do it again, which is what the show is about at least in part. =)
A problem I seem to run into with people who oppose the rumbling is a lack of any viable alternatives (and no, you can't dispel innate bigotry by simply "talking it out"). Paradis had already been declared as a global target before Eren's assault on Liberio. Decades behind the rest of the world technologically and with no external allies, what hope of survival do they have without the rumbling?
The anime does pose some erally good ways out of it though. The message is just that sometimes hate is stronger and it will always return.
@@storieswithstyleHeavily Disagree. Give one example of a good way out that is brought up by the Anime that cant be summarized with "forgive and forget".
@@TheBlackfall234 Well, that way? Why are you so against it? it was shown to work on small scale a lot.
14:36 human life is and always has been suffering. Get over it lol.
Yes, it is, I do not get why you say thatß :D
@storieswithstyle cuz you were speaking about the suffering olympics and people trying to weigh their suffering vs others. Its one of the biggest hindrances there is for world peace. Demanding retribution and/or compensation for suffering is something i see ripping the world apart as we speak. The sins of the past are thrust upon innocent people who are demanded to accept punishment for crimes they didnt commit. Its a sick futile exercise that only serves to divide and spread more hate.
@@FullMetalAttackTitan9tailsHero Yeah, it is also pretty well addressed in 3x21. The past sins really drag us down. =(
Me after watching episode 25: why did the final boss music play on the stage with Floch?
Me after watching episode 27: now it’s clear.
Yeah, 27 Floch was really awesome :D
It's natural to not answer those accusations. They want to avoid that conversation. I think them not sidestepping those questions and explaining their thoughts completely would be quite unnatural and it's one of the few problems I have with later parts of the finale. People just pausing to go "Here's where I come from. Here's how events change me. And here's where I am now." That's not how people talk
Also, as Jean sarcastically implied, Yelena was just trying to get them riled up. At this point, if having that discussion causes conflict among them, it's better to not have it
They could have thought them... The author is more than capable of conveying reasonings like I wanted adequately. As btw he did later, making this reaction by no means my current standing on the episode. But on first watch this really let me down from a "I am watching a show and finally want the answers"-perspective. I agree 100% though that it would have been unnatural for them to say it, but I would have loved some breakdowns of Armin or something iirc. Again, my view has changed and I really like this episode in hindsight and my "criticisms" were adressed in the movies and really satisfyingly so as well. =)
As you understand, the main character’s idea to crush everyone except his friends into black powder for some reason does not find a response among the latter, and they don’t care that if they defeat Eren, the forces of humanity will first turn Eldia into a desert, because their main fears about her have just been confirmed. And these chubzik form KRINGSQUAD. Just like the good old days. Armin, Mikasa, Jean, Hanji, Connie, Annie, Gabi as Eren, Armin as Bertholdt, Reiner as a man whose presence in any scene leads to an absolute reluctance to live, Levi as a disabled person on the back-up, and so on.
you really really don't get eren, buddy. Generally you are good with character examination but you are really have an axe to grind against eren, and instead of understanding him, all you do is blame him for everything. No one is saying he's a good guy or doing the right thing, but that doesn't mean he is the cardboard incarnation of everything evil. the characters looked past it in the end, but I'm afraid you won't.
Even the simple idea that eren is just hate personified is wrong. A hateful person doesn't doubt himself, try to take actions to see if the future can be changed, or try to understand his former comrades, a hateful person will block all eldians for using their powers , and do his bidding. eren is a tragic remorseful and stupid for sure, but there's a reason for that. Thats because AOT is quite the antithesis of the shonen genre, the idea of "dream" that is often found in most shonens , is flipped here where a "simplistic" dream can be corrupted , twisted and turned into a nightmare.
Thats the real tragedy. Its not one person's fault. Zeke and Eren both have their merits, and you can see where both of them are coming from, even you can say the same for floch, sure that makes him a piece of shit, but he's a great character.
And imho, eren is probably one of the best protagonist ever. Not even game of thrones or star wars could achieve the "Savior->Destroyer" arc that AOT achieved. The closest you can think of on a much smaller scale but same ferocity is Breaking bad.
I never said Eren was purely hateful? I said Eren is a slave to hate, which means that if push comes to shove, he will decide for the hate.
@@storieswithstyle It's factually untrue. He is slave to freedom. He explained that he wanted to level everything so that he can see the sight of a world like in Armin's books. Meaning a free unoccupied world like Armin said. Armin got Eren, and you didn't. Armin know that the motivation of his friend began with the books, not with his mother dying. And what about Eren's quote '' If WE kill all our ennemies over there, will we be finally free ?'' All he want IS to accomplish a dream, that turned to be a nightmare. Eren is just selfish enough to value more his dream than everything else in the World. And what about Eren's quote '' when i learned that humanity was alive outside the walls, i wanted to wipe everything away. '' Everything connect to prove that Eren's personnal motive is his ideal of freedom. There IS no hate in this. Hate and vengeance was just an excuse to hide the selfish motive he has.
He is not. I have heard this comment so often now and Eren is simply not a slave to freedom. I will post the relevant part of Armins convo here (the last words he ever spoke to Armin apologizing basically for his prioritizing the hate!!!):
Armin: And you're saying you did all this for us?
Eren: No. I didn't.I wanted to level everything.
I wanted to see this sight.
Armin: Why?
Eren: I don't know why. I just wanted to do it... so very badly.
I thought I was doing everything to protect all of you.
But Sasha and Hange died because of me, and I wound up putting you in lethal confrontations with Floch.
Why... Why did it turn out this way?
I finally know.
It's because I'm an idiot.
It can not be much clearer in my opinion. Look at it like this: If Eren had the choice between making Mikasa swallow a self-delettion pill to level the world, don't you think he would have done that as well? I am 95% sure he would have. Eren is probably the most realistic depiction of the failed painter put into a story. That is why it is scary. He is a human still, just deeply misguided. He is still f''king evil, though.
@@storieswithstyle I don't think the part of the dialogue you're giving is aimed at showing Eren's hatred of people in the outside world. Eren's goal was not to kill people, but to feel for a moment the unattainable "freedom" that was his dream. He dreamed of an empty free world where there would be no one. And when there was no such world, he was disappointed and succumbed to the desire to destroy everything that exists so that a "free" world from Armin's book, which Eren dreamed of as a child, would form in place of the outside world. So Eren's goal was never to kill people or hate a group of people (in Liberio, in a conversation with Reiner, he admits that all people are the same in essence, regardless of race and other things). Eren does what he does not because of any ideology or hatred of people, but because of disappointment in the world and the destruction of his dreams.
Yes, we can say that the reason for his actions is hatred, but it arises from the fact that he discovered the unattainability of freedom or his distorted idea of "freedom". Eventually, after seeing his own future, he begins to doubt even whether he has free will, not to mention the simpler concepts of "freedom". And the hatred is mostly directed neither at people, but at the "world" as something abstract and himself, since Eren chooses to die at the hands of friends after committing atrocities when he could have avoided it. So initially, Eren is the "slave of freedom", he even saves Mikasa as a child because he sees that bandits are depriving her of freedom. Eren simply has "no limits" in the sense that he is not completely normal, does not have an instinct for self-preservation (even in the first series) and always brings everything to the extreme.
So comparing him with an artist or even Flock, who clearly have an ideology of superiority over other nations, is fundamentally wrong. Eren is not even a nationalist, because I think between his dream, friends, the destruction of the Titans and the protection of Paradise and the Eldians, it is the Eldians who will be in last place in terms of importance to him.
@@paladdalap7913 I agree with most of your stuff, but the idea of a "pure, cleansed world" is exactly his core, which is exatly the painter idea. Granted that Eren is not for Eldia but his friends, though his primal motive is to destroy the people he deems unworhty and/or sees as obstacles. It is indeed a warped, twisted version of Armins dream, it is like he took Armins pretty pure dream and through his egomania and self-righteousness and hatred (which he does possess, first against the titans then shifting to marley and soon the world, though I agree it is very hidden in later parts, though I would argue it still comes through e.g. in theGrisha scene).
Peak: Yegerists in the port.
Allies: it's not a problem 😒
Peak: They have thunder spears.
Allies: ok this is a problem 😐
Pick: They have Azumabito hostage.
Allies: big problem 😰
Peak: Floch is there.
Allies: a very big problem 😱
Eren is not hateful, he was. Since he kissed Historia's hand, he was not anymore. You use hate everywhere but hate is the fact to hate people. Fighting or killing others people has nothing to do with hate. Hate is a feeling. And you don't necessarly fight because of hate. Sometime it's fear, sometimes it's love. There are a lot of reasons to fight. And since Eren's goal is to protect his friend and to achieve freedom, he is not motivated by hate. Eren doesn't hate necessarly the people he is fighting against. And in fact, he did not. He learned that everything was more complex that he wanted to be. If he was hateful, why not killing Reiner, Annie or those people who betrayed him ? He understand them. And as he understand, he can't hate them. You can't trully hate people you understand. Eren is not hatefull. I repeat myself. Someone hatefull will not search to protect his friends or achieving a twisted ideal of freedom.
For every other character I would agree, but in the end, Eren himself says hate is the most mportant thing in his life. So while there are definitely other reasons, Erens main dirve in the end was confirmed by himself to just be a hateful powertrip. =(
@@storieswithstyle Factually untrue. Eren never confirmed that. The only time he talked about hate was in the first three seasons. When did he even talked about hate ? He didn't talked about it one time, in the end, nor he pronunced the word hate. He talked about freedom, not hate. Where did you get that ?
This is far to be his main reason. And he confirmed it himself in the end. His main reason is to achieve a twisted ideal of freedom. Like he said in the end. He wanted to level everything, because he wanted to see the sight of a world without civilisation and humans. It's completed by Armin saying " It's me who put the idea of a free unoccupied world." It's that idea, that Eren was a slave to. Not hate.
Why crying about people he will kill, if he hate them ? You could say he hate the world to not be his childshood dream. But it's not really hate, then. Destroying the world to change it in your childhood dream, it's not hatefulle motives by definition. it's just to accomplish an ideal, a deam. And that's all. Eren is the shonen character who have a meain dream. But here, they show how achieving dreams can be terrible, even if the dream seems beautiful. Since he like people in the world, it deosn't make sense. If he should have hate, it's toward himself. Because he is the reason why his hate began.
And his goal never really was hate, to begin with. Eren never really wanted to avenge his mother, in the end. It was an excuse. He even killed her to achieve his goal. Eren used hate as a lie to abuse himself, to hide that his true motives was juste to accomplish a childhood dream. Eren is just someone who had a dream since childhood, and was never able to let go of it. He is the contrary of Erwin, who gave up on his dream in the end. Eren was selfish enough to consider that his dream was more important than everything else in the world.
That's why he said is an idiot. He lied to himself and was not able to see that his dream will only create suffer, for himself and his friends. Armin said. " You were looking at the distance."This is not hatefull. To look at the distance, it means you want to accomplish something without looking at small things in front of your eyes. It means you are seeing futur, instead of present days. And so, you are ignoring what cost you pay to achieve this goal. There is nothing in Eren's words about his hate, anger or revench, not even one word.
Eren said it the first time by. " instead of letting people stole my freedom, i'll steal theirs first." It's not, by definition, hatefull. It's just that freedom is the most important thing in his eyes. His story just tell how an idea can be perverted, and that ideals are what cost wars and desagreement between people. Ideals are symbolized by the horizon, or the fact to looking at the distance. And in comparison, you have normal people who just consider present and live without thinking about the futur. Armin is the reverse, because he has no ideals. He just love the world as it is, and don't want to change it.
@@storieswithstyle You confuse everything. it was explained by Armin that Eren wanted a free unoccupied world. That was his dream. And that's his motives. That's why Eren said he wanted to level everything, because he dreamt of a word without civilisation, without walls, without any laws or countries. Only a free unccopied world, with nothing. Hate mean there is a revench or a vengeance. Where did Eren avenge anything, in the end ? Destroying the world avenged nothing. It was just a way to accomplish his childhood dream, that's all. That's why he was an idiot, because he was too preoccupied by the accomplishment of his dream. And he got the power to accomplish it. Seriously, you are confusing everything here. Hate mean vengeance. Eren is taking revench on what ? You could say everyone who exist. But then, why cying about people he will kill ? Your point doesn't make sense. His main motives is his childhood dream.
@@vincentvieille5996 He just convinced to see eren as a hatemonger hitl*r adjacent maniac, he's not going to budge buddy. He doesn't get eren or even zeke for that matter. he gets levi and mikasa tho.
@@amampathak Well. It's sad for himself, to not get that deep meaning part of the story. The author himself described Eren as the boy who wanted freedom.
Maybe you forgot, but when you said, "Eren is that toxic friend you don't need" the shot was on 3 people who all owe their lives to Eren. They would be dead without him, so it's much more than simple friendship.
And he without them. it is okay to owe a life, but weihing other million lives against that is questionable. I think it is a very strong point but ultimaltely falls flat. Even if all else is "justified" by a pro-Eren person, in the end he at least severely scarred his friends mentall yforever, though we later find out that at least in Mikasa's case it was even wose.
@@storieswithstyle Oh i'm not trying to justify Eren, though I am pretty team Eren. Im just reiterating the famous idea, "A single death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." You would have trouble weighing the lives of your children vs your entire city. You may choose your children. In fact i'd expect that of any good person.
Yes, I agree! =)
Flock❤❤❤
Th eclock is ticking... :D
Im confused…what sort of answers were you hoping for from Jean, and Armin? I dont really think there are any.
“Why did Armin blow up the port?”
Because Eren forced their hand i to either risking losing the coordinate to Marley or go along with Erens ‘rescue’ plan he laid out in the letters. Bombing the port with the colossal is a sound strategic move irregardless of the morality, and we know Armin to make these choices often. Now, are you asking about how Armin FEELS about it? Well we know it eats him up just from his first reaction when he exits the colossal, he stares at the destruction he caused, saying “are these the sights you saw bertholdt?”
“Why did Jean shoot the spear at falco?”
This is much simpler, it was a mission of the utmost importance and pieck is a very high value target all things considered. Jean went to finish her off and Falco jumped in front at the last second. There is no “why”. It’s the middle of combat and he made a split second choice. He knows the moral implications of his actions but it’s still a war and he made the call. There isnt always a ‘why’.
You seem to have finished the series already anyways, so it’s moot, but i just wanted to add my piece. Ty for the reactions and hope you enjoyed the show overall.
Well, all things I wanted happened in later episodes and not here, Simon those reactions (especially special 1) i address the scenes that had the content I felt was missing here :)