Everyone ignores that you have to be born into the right situation to begin with. Most people are not able to buy instruments and take lessons or have connections needed to study music at these levels. There's the luck involved - being lucky to be put in a situation where you can even truly dream of becoming a musician. I can't imagine how many actual Mozart's exist who are unable to bring their music into the world because they weren't born into a situation that allowed them to nurture their skills.
I agree. Unfortunately, this is super depressing and doesn't make good content, so it tends to be ignored. Unless your family can provide ~$50k in private tuition over a decade (plus instrument costs, plus time to get you to and from lessons), you're in for a serious uphill battle against those who do have that advantage.
Oh, c’mon. Plenty of people from very poor backgrounds have become famous musicians. Don’t you think the real difference is not the top talent, but the middle? It’s the competent orchestra musician, not the top tier, that is helped most by adequate wealth. My uncle was an orchestra violinist, also played with Dorsey, and was a band leader, and supplemented income as an insurance salesman. His family were immigrants and never rich. His son went to Berkeley on a scholarship and taught at Juilliard. Also played with Tommy Dorsey Band (post Dorsey), but preferred playing R&B to symphonies. My lawn man’s daughter graduated from Juilliard. All pretty much middle middle class.
@@nunyabidness3075 This is called selection bias and is not how statistics work (it's also all unverifiable). Saying you know a guy who did well in spite of x is not the same as saying x has no impact on musical career outcomes. When you look at things like conservatory student bodies, you'll see that individuals from poorer socio-economic backgrounds are far less represented. That's not to say they don't exist at all, just that they're not present in the student body at the same rate as the general population. Background absolutely matters. One person bucking that trend doesn't invalidate the claim any more than a lottery winner makes it worthwhile to gamble. And that shouldn't be too surprising. If your parents don't own a standalone house, you're going to be limited in your time to practice. If your parents can't afford expensive private tuition, you're at a disadvantage to students whose parents can afford.
In my 20s I practiced a lot. As an amateur in my 30s I got recruited a lot for unpaid, then low paid gigs. In my late 30s music started paying well, and in my 60s I've been full time for 25 years. For me, persistence has been most important.
1. extreme sense of universal awareness of everyone and everything around you, 2. extreme self control and discipline in maintaining a consistency in daily SLOW practice, 3. TALENT, 4. HUMILITY, 5. the ability to sincerely enjoy music, to be committed, to always desire to learn from everyone, 6. to be flexible and adaptable, 7. to understand its not how long you practice, but how carefully you practice, 8. to be able to enjoy extreme slow and soft practice, 9. to be able to practice and play in your mind, mentally without your instrument. 10. to have a life outside of music!!!
Thank you sooo much!!! It really motivated me and you are 100% right. I will safe these 10 beautiful golden rules. It is really precious information, thank you for sharing your knowledge! I'll try my best to make the world a better place and I sincerely know, that very very high quality music is soooo important for human soul. It could change their lives...
Lol, sometimes I think that #2 in the list is the absolute ace of spades. My regrets are focused around that. Not enough practice, not good enough practice....
That covers the technical aspect of playing your instrument. The musical aspect involves an in depth study of harmony and counterpoint and vitally, extensive ear training. A highly skilled musician should be instantly able to identify notes, chords and how they interrelate. Here is an example (albeit extreme) of great musical talent ruclips.net/video/hli-9maxDjY/видео.html
@@wbiro YES I know but you should try to look at it as if you are in some kind of meditation. By doing it in that context you will grow in skill and in an appreciation leading to self fulfilment and then finally a love.
I think it's important to note that this mostly applies to high level classical musicians. I am a pretty good pianist, but I'm certainly not even remotely close to the skill of concert pianist, yet I make a pretty decent living playing the piano on various parties, events and in restaurants. You don't need to give up your life to make your passions work. You just need to find the way that works for you
> I think it's important to note that this mostly applies to high level classical musicians. They set the ethos for _all_ work in music - the process as well as the product. Drive from within + direction from without. They own the work ethic, as the strictest workers always do. It's never those with the most human qualities, but those who master their humanity in the name of doing.
As a rock and blues guitarist, I think there are some valuable points here. You should want to focus on constant learning and improvement as well as having the drive to develop your craft and be the best you can be. 🎸
Some people do actually want to be the best that they can possibly be. Trust me if you want to be as good as a Steve Vai, or Jeff Beck, you're going to be practicing just as hard as any classical musician, the same goes for a dancer, or a painter. Most people find a level they're comfortable at attaining and stay there, but the people who want to reach for the brass ring, and are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are a special breed. And while the rest of us might shake our heads at the commitment and work they put in to get there, we all are fortunate that those people exist.
After almost 20 yrs of playing music professionally (not classical) I finally realized that 1. I love music so much and 2. Making a living playing music was robbing me of that love. I was happier at working menial jobs and pursuing the love of music, both playing and listening and exploring it.
A friend of mine could have been a professional musician, but decided she wanted to enjoy it rather than be a job, so chose another profession and does music socially
Same here, the pressure of making music a job just robbed the joy for me. I’m just happy being able to practice and improve in my little music room at home.
@@NahreSol hi, pls suggest practice routine for someone who started learning western classical theory at 20 and also trinity piano program. How many hours of piano practice will be required to become a classical pianist in 2-3 years?
I have a background in high level sport. I've noticed many similarities between sports and music, and this video solidified those thoughts. Replace every "musician" and "music" with "athlete" and "sport," and the video would still flow seamlessly. I am in complete agreement that to achieve a top level, total commitment and adaptablity are vital. Singular focus, almost to obsession, hours of training, being very self-critical and possessing the ability to change course at a moments notice are all necessary to even have a chance to reach the top. Excellent video!
If the aim is to "win" (as the violinist in the video says), then music is indistinguishable from sport competitions. But I think that competition is what really damages music, always.
@@andsalomoni Competition in sports pushes athletes towards the sublime, while competition in the arts pushes the artists away from the sublime. That difference is kind of peculiar.
@@KitagumaIgen Exactly. In sports there is almost always a quantitative barrier to break (jump more than x meters high, run in less than y seconds), in arts there can't be such a quantification. That's why competition reduces art to a measurement, which is a degradation of art. Is Picasso "more" or "less" valuable than Van Gogh? Totally meaningless question.
I am certainly grateful for classical music and the musicians that keep it alive but I also feel like there is something horribly wrong lurking somewhere inside it today. There's so much more to music than being the best, beating the competition, and wanting to win. I grew up in a trailer park and had a dorky Casio keyboard that I loved to play. I heard songs on the radio and on movies and I tried my best to copy them on my keyboard. I didnt have many resources or any teachers. Now a few decades later I play jazz piano at a fairly high level. I have an unrelated career but I make extra by playing paid gigs that I want to play and tbh it's more than I ever thought I could make. I don't say this as a way to brag or create some sob story I'm saying this because it's not so far off other professional musicians lives that I know. For the sake of the music and the enjoyment we got out of playing it drove us to where we are. Every step of the way has been enjoyable for me. If I hear something I like that I don't know how to play I instantly become obsessed with trying to figure it out. It's fun and it slowly adds to my abilities. Hearing someone play something that I can't or better than I can isn't a threat to me it's an opportunity. I get the chance to build a relationship and learn from it all because of music. I know this is biased to my area but if I were to look at all the paid gigs available to piano players right now very few are for classical music. The majority are for all kinds of different projects and genres of music. If I show up at a gig and the competition is a classical pianist that has this mindset of "why bother with being second best" and has always won and has been better than everyone else he's gone up against but now wants to make more money and branch out of classical, to put it lightly he's gonna lose. And not just by a little bit he's effectually going to "eat my dust" as they say in the competitive world. Most likely he couldn't improvise over Mary Had a Little Lamb and no there's no sheet music because you're the one tasked with coming up with your own part. I can offer not just one idea for a part but many. If someone asked me to change something I can give 5 different takes on the spot. All while enjoying the heck out of it and depending on the gig is nearly effortless for me. Again not to brag but to say there's so much more to music than competition. There's other and maybe even better definitions of success. There's many things that can drive people to achieve something, just know that passion, enjoyment, friendliness, kindness and love of music is a very very powerful driver to success if it's felt strongly enough
I think your comment deserves more upvotes. If given the choice between you and a classical pianist as my teacher, I’d probably choose you, because what you said truly inspires me. I like your philosophy on music, and the way you approach music, and your open mindset, and I agree with you, there’s more to music, and there’s more to success, than what is said in the video. I love classical music but I’ve always found the elitism in that world to be needlessly restrictive and exclusive. While that is a whole other topic, I suspect on some level that attitude stems from the belief that to be a successful classical musician, you have to win the game, beat everyone else, win every competition, show them who’s the boss, and that fosters a mindset of exclusion, rather than openness. I don’t want to one day approach the piano bench with that mindset of me having to be the star or lose the game, my mind would just go: ‘Remember the day you started the journey because you wanted to explore the wonders of music? Whatever happened to that?’. While that mentality surely has merits, I find yours to be more embracing of growth, curiosity, and welcoming others into the realm of music. And yes, there are more than one definition of success as a musician, being a soloist in a prestigious orchestra is not the only way to succeed. But oddly enough, in a video about adaptability, I don’t think many classical musicians are open-minded enough to acknowledge that even to play in small gigs, and to accompany lesser-known pop singers well, is a success, and the pianists able to pull those off know more skills than them. Again, the elitism.
@Disinformation World Thats why I put it in the context of a competition at the end of my comment. I've advanced to where I am simply because I enjoy doing it. I've never had a formal lesson, I've never won a competition or trophy, I can't play the mega technical pieces most professional classical musicians can but throughout the years of a lot of playing I'm at a point where I've developed more adaptability and competitiveness outside the classical context. Regardless that's not why I did it. I just like the piano. That's all there is to it really.
Beginning at a very young age *in that strict and hardworking environnement* is definitely a predominant factor. Started piano when I was 7 and my teacher never wanted me to put in too much work or add stress, he just wanted me to have fun. 14 years later that's exactly the type of classical pianist that I am. I sure can play hard pieces and got a broad repertoire, but I never bother to perfect those tough bars or candenzas because it requires a ton of work
Just out of curiosity, do you think that strict and hardwork focused teaching is better than encouraging a student to have fun playing? I personally think your teacher sounds like the perfect teacher, such a small minority of people can and even would actually ever want to become a musician, so I think its much better to focus teaching to serve the majority of people who are more likely looking for a fun hobby.
@@BuffaloBillBtch it depends on your goal. my teacher (that has been with me since i was 10) is very meticulous and demanding, and it was a important factor to define how i view my music studies. for a short period of time i had a teacher who was very chill about everything, but since i have a tendency to procrastinate if i'm not under pressure, the time i spent with her wasn't good to me at all. you have to look to your necessities to know if a teacher is "better" to you or not, everyone has their own particularity.
@@BuffaloBillBtch Like others have said in the comment section, as a kid it sure was a boon. But as I got older and tackled harder pieces, I would have prefered a stricter teacher. He was too lenient. We're still good friends though :) Btw I refered to myself as a classical pianist, that sure is the case but it’s not my job 😅
@@kuroneko9270 Do you believe meticulousness can be compatible with a way of teaching that respects the individual? Put another way, is there a pitfall or danger in respect for the individual?
I'm currently studying composition and it's really stressful. Got burnt-out in 2019 and almost got into a depression. Now I'm a lot better and it is still very hard to handle the work at college and the other musical activities I'm into. So yes, it is not only passion, talent and love for music, it is learning how to handle stress, when to stop if it's unhealthy and not productive and try to always improve in your musical area. I'm so thankful for this kind of videos. We need more musicians talking about what is like to be a musician, so people can understand and respect our job
> it is learning how to handle stress which for a performer, i think means a certain, fairly high, level of _acceptance._ not trying to always put it into perspective, nor develop strategies beyond the anxieties of the practice room and the greenroom. we can add stressors that we don't need to be there. they're fair game to work on. but there are many we can't take away without a real cost. when it comes to the day-in-day-out, background stressors of traditions, personalities, ethos and lifestyle, it can only be a matter of just saying "bring it on." this is a subjective field, and also a regimented one. that means others' subjectivity can affect you. the factors of tradition, personality, and ethos are all at least part bullshit. but when others' subjectivity can affect you, so can their bullshit, or even just the everyday background bullshit. the bullshit _matters._ once we say "to hell with stress, no more bullshit, i play music for the love of it," it really is a kind of quitting. all because so many others are waiting to push us aside. they show greater devotion to the background stressors and believe more loyally in the bullshit, in the name of fame, excellence, or just the opportunity to be heard. at any level, it is a privilege for others to be aware of you. the conditioning is deep and it is widespread. therefore, breaking it comes at a higher cost than if music were just something in the trees and the breeze. instead, it is a system - a random and capricious system, but still a system.
I understand completely where you're coming from! I was in your same situation during my years in university, where I never felt like giving up on music, but...well, giving up on life several times, frankly. The stress and burnout from university was at times too much to bear, and I spent four of my five-year time in university just running on fumes. I wish I could (have) handle(d) stress and expectations as seamlessly as professional musicians do, but...I just don't have the grit. I appreciate professionals who have what it takes these days.
I'd never want to know what would've happened to me if I'd quit music. Sometimes I have to struggle between what aspects of music to stick with--playing or composing--but I'd never be able to entirely give up music.
"Talent is the entry point." Very nicely summed up there. That was a terrific piece of video journalism. You really captured a clear and authentic take on that world. Many thanks!
Sometimes even “enthusiasm” is enough for an entry point. I remember as a teenager I knew someone that I at the time didn’t think was very talented, but who was super enthusiastic about music and just absorbed everything. Went on to the music conservatory, and now play in national symphony orchestras, plop up on tv in broadcasting orchestras etc. That drive that she talks about was very much there the whole time.
@@truecuckoo But for those who don't quite make it, they're no less driven. A dozen people can commit their lives to pursuing a career in music, but if there are only positions available for three, then you have nine others whose stories are untold. Those stories don't really make for good content, unfortunately, since they typically result in some sort of depression.
@@syntaxlost9239 yeah it can get dark. But I think that’s where adaptability comes in. And to enjoy the detours and take them on just as seriously as the top spots. But in any scene where the top spots are the highly sought after positions, there’s gonna be a lot of people not reaching there for sure. There’s no avoiding that. Perhaps this should also be a topic of discussion at the conservatories.
@@truecuckoo The conservatories are another dark part of the music industry with how much they've been twisted into a money-making machine set to exploit their students. One thing that will never be covered (because it is super depressing and doesn't make good content) is how much coming from a family of means plays into becoming a top tier classical musician. Private tuition for over a decade at ~$5k/year is not accessible to most. Tens of thousands of dollars for a top shelf instrument is not accessible to most. ~$40k/year for Juilliard is really putting yourself in a huge financial hole for a career that usually doesn't pay anywhere nearly proportional to the amount of hours and money required to get in... if you even get in.
I guess you did have talent enough to make it at some point in your life. That’s the whole point, even the very best don’t wake up one morning “suddenly the Best”. Talent is the entry point, what you make of it is your decision.
I think these are good points. I do however believe there is room to live as a musician without needing to reach the top or be the best. That it heavily depends on which type of music, the expected level of audience and travel.
@@NahreSol Yeah, my bad :) Commented right before the end of the video and got distracted. Very fun to get insight like this! Thanks for making this video
for instance, jazz fanship has retreated to a few urban centers. it's almost as if, without young competitive players, there's no audience. indeed, many listeners aren't out to hear something they might dig. they're out to prove their hipness as part of a happenin' scene.
Yeah and talent has nothing to do with it it’s what you want nothing to do with kind of music I have to say it’s how far you’re willing to go that’s it can be any style
@@vishnugiridran8847 I'd argue that talent is a component for sure. That isn't to say it makes it automatically easy. Talent is maybe 20-30%, the rest is hard work. But it comes more naturally when the talent component is there, there is no denying that. And starting at a young age will make it way easier vs starting at an adult.
One thing that came to mind to me is having the social support system to get you through all of this. I’m older and studied music during the period where the predominant teaching style could fairly be called abusive (thankfully this seems to be far less of the case today), for whatever reason. Without much of a support system it was just impossible to get through. You can be internally motivated, but it just only goes so far. Maybe this is something that is just assumed, like talent and motivation? But as a young person who really wanted to be a musician but washed out, I think it would have been helpful to understand that this is something you just can’t do on your own, if you’re socially isolated. Or at least, it becomes massively more difficult.
Massively more difficult, for sure, but not impossible. Beethoven didn't exactly have the greatest support. At the end of the day, it's all on you. If you think you can't win because you don't have enough support, then you will certainly lose, -not because you don't have enough support, but because you've convinced yourself you can't win, and have already begun blaming it on other people (I've been there). It's all on you.
@@ritazanin1429 Back in the day, there was no logic or system, only tradition, and tradition was embodied in the master player. By definition a master player was a master teacher - a talent for teaching was judged only on outward results, and a soul for teaching wasn't even a thought. All was mystified in the tradition, except what produced results... _sometimes, for some people_ The exceptions, with what we today know as wasted talent, only served to prove the rule. Those who failed were unequal to the task, period. Now we call it the master tradition. Once, it was the _only_ tradition.
@@5BBassist4Christ Perhaps something to be said here relative to whether you're an introvert (draw more energy from solitude) or extrovert (draw more energy from environmental/social stimulation). From the video it does seem like resiliency in solitude is absolutely necessary. Moving to a new place means you have to be able to uproot and still find the motivation to keep going when you lose that social support. That being said, I think people who are able to still find their drive through solitude as adults are perhaps those who benefited from some sort of unconditional love, positive regard growing up. Beethoven might be the exception, and one that stands out for a reason: composing may very well have been a therapy for him, a mean to externalize his suffering, and perhaps that's in part why he touches so many people, beyond all the hard work he put in for his craft of course.
After a lifetime as a professional musician, I could fill up many pages of response. I play bluegrass, folk, swing guitar, and fiddle. 15 years ago I discovered an amazing niche. I started performing solo for retirement communities i sing popular music from the 20th century, and have done close to 3000 of these shows. No competition, I just play my heart out and bring new life to people through Music. One of my personal favorite quotes is "They don't care as much how good you are as… How good you make them feel." A few of the things that have served me in life are one, do a variety of things in life for money, enjoy a low cost of living, get the best instruments, you can possibly afford, practice plenty, think of yourself as a holy person - we bring great gifts and it is an honor to be doing it.
My own journey involved the the discovery that I had started too late. I grew up as a big fish in a small pond, and everyone said I was so talented. But my parents were poor, so I never had lessons. When I got to college, I found I was just good enough to get by. If it hadn't been for my good ear and natural grasp of theory, I would have had to change majors. When I got to Nashville, I simply stopped calling myself a musician. Those cats are off the charts. My favorite studio guitarist there gets up at 5am and practices until 7am. Then he spends all day going from studio to studio. In Nashville, I had some success as a commercial music writer, but soon focused on audio engineering, and have had a successful career in that field. But I never gave up on my dream to make a living writing music. At 60 I'm still at it, and still learning. Your channel is a big inspiration to keep going.
Music doesn’t like to play second to anyone or anything except God himself. To be the best at anything requires sacrifice. I’ve been at this for 30 years. I’ve worked with some of the best in the world in so many capacities (writing, performing, playing, producing, management, recording, mixing, consulting, teaching etc.). The drive and the stories are the same across to board irrespective of genre…this life is not for the faint or if you want normalcy. It was best said by Mike Stern (miles Davis alumni): If you want to be a musician, DON’T, it’s a hard life with a lot of hard knocks…but if you HAVE TO BE…it can be the greatest job in the world. Ej
@@vishwajeetbabbar7622 Yes, being a pop musician is another way to have a musical career. Huge success is statistically improbable, but many pop musicians make a living and make great music that people love by becoming studio musicians, hired guns, even playing in local groups and cover bands. It's not a major symphony orchestra, but it's music and it has an audience. More than that, a musician can make a career by playing in a variety of settings. I know a guy who's lived his whole life playing the accordion in polka bands for dances and old folks homes, he travels regularly to gigs in Vegas and Orlando, as well as playing the organ at churches. If he can make money and people like, who's to say his career is any less important than a virtuoso who plays in an orchestra? Plus he's been able to live in one area, raise a family, and though he's diligent about practicing, it's only about half an hour a day. There's also teaching from giving guitar lessons out of your basement for a little extra cash to working at shops for a living to teaching at schools, leading school choruses and bands, introducing children to singing and playing right up to honing tomorrow's stars. Plus you can make some money by making music on RUclips! In this video she's talking about a very rarified atmosphere of musicianship, which is wonderful. My point it most successful musicians find ways to make a living while making music that are very different and no less legitimate or important.
I don't think this necessarily applies to classical musicians as much since they are usually performing other composers' work, but a musician that plays their own original music, I think another very important factor that propels people to higher levels of success is uniqueness and ability to be vulnerable to fully express themselves. There are lots of artists who aren't the technical best, but they are so perfect at being themselves that it shines through and makes them more compelling.
Performing other composers' work can be very demanding since the listeners have heard the music performed many times before by great orchestras and musicians. The comparison between you and those other musicians will drive you to practice more and attempt to perform a the highest level. Writing and performing your own music takes different skills but I don't think that alone makes you a better musician, perhaps just more unique. I am 81 years old and have played music since I was 6 years old and I still learn more about performing or writing music every time I dive into a new music project. I love taking classic songs and tunes and turning them into my own version of those songs/tunes, creating and performing live are the most enjoyable parts of music for me.
Can we appreciate the fact that these amazing musicians found some time in their filled to the brim schedule to talk and share tips to us viewers? Amazing content as always
For me the most important thing as a musician is to find something nobody else can imitate - trust me, this will feed you forever - MEANWHILE challenging yourself through many many auditions, competitions etc where you have to fight against literally EVERYONE doing exactly the same thing, to keep yourself motivated and nervous. In case of myself, I am a melting pot of violinist, violist, theory teacher, writer (both in English and Korean), and bassist (electric). Music is wayyyy more versatile than anyone can possibly imagine. Don't give up. Practice. Love the music. Trust me - something will happen for sure.
Adaptability is definitely an overlooked virtue in music. Sometimes it is adapting from one style to another, sometimes it's adapting from one gig to another. Even adapting to a new instrument when you upgrade your gear seems like a setback at first, but is better in the long run. Adapting to the reverb in a concert hall, or the dead-space in a recording studio. Adapting between sheet music, rhythm charts, lead sheets, and even playing by ear. Adapting from your neighbors complaining about you being too loud, adapting from the business of life, adapting to new techniques you're learning. I think if a person has everything it takes to be a world-class musician, the failure to adapt could single-handedly destroy their career.
Excellent video. Here’s a story about a composer: In a reminiscence published recently in the Japanese newspaper Nihon Keizai Shimbun, the composer Shin'ichirō Ikebe wrote about when he entered the Department of Composition at the Tokyo University of the Arts in 1963. One of the teachers asked the students in the incoming class to show him any music they had happened to compose since passing the entrance examination a few weeks earlier. The only student who had written anything was Ikebe, who had been composing music for his own enjoyment since he was a child. The other students, although they had chosen to major in composition and had submitted compositions for the entrance exam, had not composed anything when they didn’t have to. Perhaps needless to say, it was Ikebe who went on to a productive career as a composer, and he is continuing to compose today at the age of 79.
Thank you for this video, Nahre! I began learning to play the piano when I was 6, and music is the reason I could push myself to be better in other fields as well, because it helped me become disciplined. Last year I took a break from music to focus on studies, and now I feel like I can't play anything well at all, and the fact that I am not as good as earlier is overwhelming. I am not looking to make a career in music, but I want to be as good as professional pianists, and now I just get stressed when I start playing. This and the other video of yours in which you gave tips to get back on track, have been very helpful!
Practice, kiddo. I played piano at Clint Eastwood's Mission Ranch for ten years when Covid shut us down. I was so depressed I spent two years not playing at all. It _hurts_ to hear what you have become. Just let it make you angry enough to take it out on the keyboard. I play jazz, so I just sat my Nord in front of the TV and every time I watched anything I'd start playing - tunes, scales, phrases - just PLAY. It'll come back. I'm gigging again and people applaud, so I guess it's OK...
I'm not Nahre, and I hope she responds to you. My instrument is not piano, but guitar. One thing I know for sure is that stress is a killer in anything that involves a motor skill. So, I would say don't put too much pressure on yourself, the less, the better. Btw, when I have taken breaks from playing, I do become rusty, but it's all still there. It doesn't go away. I've always been able to come back and begin again to move forward. I think the chances you can do the same are excellent. Good luck and remember it really is all about the music.
Hey, it's good that you're driven, but maybe also consider that you simply have less time to devote to your music than a professional musician? Wanting to play as good as a professional while also doing something else in your life might be setting yourself up for failure. Also, what's your anchoring point for evaluating your progress? Because the way you could play when you were at the height of your game is not very realistic if you've had a hiatus, please be kind and patient with yourself and don't compare yourself to that, either. Skills usually come back quite fast, accept that you're at a certain point right now and compare your playing to how you did the day before. Just my opinion, I wish you success with your progress!
Mansee, music also taught me discipline to learn anything I want. I’m 71, now, and stopped playing for a long time. I’ve restarted, and now find so much joy in what I play, even if I’m just learning or relearning a piece. To me, and it seems to most others here, the love of music is more important than one’s level, of course, unless you are a professional. You might look at why your level is so important to you, that it makes you unhappy, and robs you of the joy in playing wonderful music. Maybe your expectations are too great. Life is short, believe me. Every day, I look for joy in my life, not ways to criticise myself. Good luck.
There needs to be a discussion about the financial aspects of majoring in music. If you are not wealthy enough to have your parents support you through college, masters, etc it's going to be a really difficult financial situation. Unless you are extremely sure you can get a job at the end of all of this, you do NOT want to take any loans. The jobs for CLASSICAL music specifically that pay a GOOD wage are so rare. I got a extremely good scholarship for college, but most people nowadays get at least a masters(even for just orchestra players), and it stressed me out to think about needing to get an amazing scholarship while needing to support my every day living expenses in college. And then to try to think and prepare for longterm goals...i mean, it was so stressful.
Adaptability....I learned survival doesn't go to the fittest, it goes to the most adaptable. Thanks for the vid Nahre. When Maddie talked about all the setbacks and being able to comeback, I was reminded of the old boxing saying: Anyone can throw a punch. It's all about who can TAKE a punch. Keep going!
I can agree that it's fun to be good, but...I only have so much time and energy per day. I guess that just means it'll take me longer to achieve my goals, so long as I'm persistent.
Yes, it is incredibly fun to be good, and most people would love to be "good", and yet most people if they are completely honest don't have what it takes to get there. And note, not having what it takes to get there is not the same thing as not having the necessary skills, because I think we've all known a person who had the skills to be amazingly good at something, but not the drive.
@@crouchjump5787 may i ask how? im genuinely interested because im currently in pre-U and contemplating whether to get a music degree or some other degree that will give me financial stability, but that would mean progressing much slower in music. May I ask what your 9-5 is?
@@seeitall8921 I would say this - unless you're wickedly good in music, go for the money. Most people who go for the music end up doing other things for money anyways. Only a small sliver of the best of the best make consistent money in music, and that number will probably fall lower as the world continues to fall apart. If you do go to music school, go with the intention of being the best on your instrument in the entire school, and there will undoubtably be very talented people trying to be the same... Even if you don't go to music school, it is still possible to get very good on your own free time, but you'll need to remain consistent over the course of years.
Just so you know to keep practicing in perspective.. most of the serious Musicians in India, the world class folks like Ravi Shankar, Hariprasad Chaurasia, Shiv Kumar Sharma, Zakir Hussain and thousands of others regularly practiced 8 to 14 hours a day after they became teens.
I have a dilemma in my life, that I love music (piano) and writing equally. I can’t sacrifice either of the two, and in understanding that both require immense commitment and focus, I’ve decided to just be the best I can be and follow my own artistic path.
there are plenty of accomplished musicians who have done both (among many other things too). Leonard Bernstein for example conducted, composed, and performed on piano.
I had the same dilemma in 1989. Tried music first. Got into significant debt. Got into commercial writing. Paid off the debt. Had a complete change. Then came back to music, playing covers and in a couple of tribute bands. Agreed, both paths need a singular focus, unless you get lucky in some way (and where’s the fun in that? 😂).
Learning is easy peasy, I started my career as an opera singer somewhere around the age of 32-34, but the traveling is just harrrrddd. I always imagined it to be so romantic and adventure like, but in real life I've never had a good time going from one hotel to another. And worst of all: TURNS OUT I'M A CREATIVE PERSON THAT NEEDS TO BE CREATIVE TO FEEL GOOD! The classical circus is artistically satisfying, but creatively it's about as nourishing as a rice biscuit, which I figure is the reason I'm bad at dealing with the stress. I spent the lockdowns writing music and improvising ; it was great!
@@yishihara55527 That's not how the opera world works. Just the fact that you have a social media presence is already a problem for some agencies. They are so behind the times that some colleagues of mine where tropped for posting practice sessions in Instagram. I don't like agents (ok, no one does) so I don't have one, but some opera house administrators will deem you to not be serious or committed if you admit to any creative pursuits outside of singing classical music, and if you post any recordings of any performance or rehearsal that they paid for and therefore own, you will be threatened with legal action and possible be blacklisted, so I've had to unlist most of my videos
For a soloist, they also need to have a mindset for business, marketing, and promotion, particularly before they have a manager or label to do those things for them - the trick being that nobody will be interested in helping them until they've already demonstrated that they don't need the help. Even more so, they need to communicate well and cultivate relationships, even after they do have people helping them. Someone could be one of the best on their instrument the world has ever seen (heard), but be so bad at the other elements that they have an uncertain, overlooked career with few concerts, despite their talents and hard work to be a fantastic musician. If they want to play in an orchestra, all they have to do is win the audition, but being a successful soloist is completely different, and involves so much more than just playing the instrument. Unlike sports, there's so little money in classical music that musicians have to prove not just their talent for playing their instrument, but also their talent for attracting sizable audiences, before anyone would risk time or money on them. Until then, they have to be entrepreneurs running the business called "me, the classical soloist".
Very salient observations. As I read I thought of Yuja Wang and Khatia Buniatisavili, and how these women-developed their abilities-and then developed their public personas and then marketed both. Winning contests, getting recording contracts, using fashion and their physical attributes as part of appeal. Wang with over exposure and Buniatisavili with showing a sculpted back and creamy cleavage. I hope your personal insights have helped you develop the career you wanted.
> nobody will be interested in helping them until they've already demonstrated that they don't need the help. The holy creed of all capitalistic enterprise. Wants beat needs every time.
Nahre, thanks for explaining the life of an orchestral musician to people that may not realize the effort required to be a professional musician. I was a professional violinist for most of my life. I achieved that because I had a good brain, the drive , passion and discipline to achieve my goals. I started late, came from lower middle class, and essentially had to navigate everything on my own. I overcame many obstacles because I only wanted to be an orchestral musician.I Loved playing and the process of how to play in orchestra. Being retired now, It was all worth it for the self discovery and beauty of music
I too a late beginner... I started violin at the age of 14 now am 18....i want a concert violinist career... Can u please explain how to deal with this... 😇
@@ashkar9785 Me too I started at 13 and now it's been a year and I'm at grade 5 at the conservatory, my teacher said I could become a soloist but I need to keep working as hard as Im doing
I really appreciate this, Nahre. Great video, and topic. I think that Adaptability might be my super strength now that I think about it. As a freelancing artist across the fields, I have adapted to hundreds of unforeseen situations and projects over the years. Looking back it’s impossible to sum it all up in a coherent CV 😅
I have so much respect for professional musicians, clearly their love of music transcends their very health and sanity. I think that's why I know for certain I would never want to pursue music as a career -- I love music very much and would be horrified to be in any kind of position to hate it. Music is a release, a way to express myself, and I'll forever be happy to call myself an amateur; after all, the word comes from "one who loves"
I remember back in college talking with my advisor (O chem prof) about double majoring and she said, "well, you can do chemistry for a living and music for fun but it doesn't really work the other way around." I've ended going through a lot of twists and turns both "day job" and music, but turns out for me not having to depend on music for an income was the right choice for me. You can still take your musical craft seriously (almost a thousand gigs in the last decade +), but unless you really have that laser-focus drive and ability to do what ever it takes, music for a living is a tough row to hoe..
I never wanted to be a professional musician, but as someone who wants to be as best a cellist I can be this video was very helpful. Maybe I’ll be on their level when I’m 87 😭
EXACTLY 😭 People thought I'm going to music for college since music is something I'm the best at. But little did they know IT STRESSES ME OUT SO MUCH 😭😭😭 Everyone can play the piano with plenty of practice. What differs an amateur and a professional is the tone and touch which takes so much focus to nail each note. I have the talent but not the mental capacity to be stressed out all the time. Decided to pursue animation instead lmaooo
So honest and true! I really appreciate you having made this video which is something everyone who aspires to playing music professionally should see. But the other aspect is that there are many people who make a life in music, but because it is not cutting edge classical or jazz they do not have to make the same kinds of commitment to perfectionism. It would be great for you to do a more complete video that demonstrates how a love of music can translate into a more human lifestyle. I know people who studied diligently, but have decided not to travel and find a local place to perform while maybe recording and giving lessons and selling musical equipment or some combination of other music related activities.
this fits me perfectpy. I have not opted for a too eavy,performance based career because of the stress it has, because my chops are not that hihg..yet, and because music has many branches open. I also have discovered that I like switching activities frequently (obiously discipline is there) but I enjoy what I do and make just enough to live and save little by little
@Kenneth Garcia I think such people are a little embarrassing, and maybe more than a little troubling, to the ones who have set their sights on competitive excellence.
It's kind of sad as an adult learner knowing you can do nothing to catch up to someone who started practicing at 3. But that's the nature of the beast. I still strive to be the best I can during my remaining days.
An adult learner that nevertheless goes for it, is somehow more meritable than someone who started at 3 with all the advantages and all the possibilities open.
With that mentality, you are correct. However, an adult learner can learn 5x as fast if they are wise and they have the drive/discipline. It is possible.
@@hazenclough4212 "with that mentality". What mentality? The mentality that someone who started training at 3 year old literally has 26 years of multi hour practices on me? Also, source on that 5 time thing.. because I call BS. In fact it's easier for children to learn than it is for adults.
Wes Montgomery. 20 something. Chuck Berry. Late 20s - 30 maybe? Off the top of my head. Must be hundreds more. I'm no know-it-all. Your response is kinda proving my point about mentality. Walked right into that one breh. No offense. You have big muscles. And you are handsome. Hugs XOXO 😘
As an 18 year old jazz musician on their way to berklee, this video speaks to me very much! I’m thankful for all of the saxophone lessons I’ve been taking, but i also know it’s very important to learn and acquire skills from work and things outside of music so that you can apply on your musical journey. I’m currently working a golf job as a sales pitcher, and it heavily relies on my persuasion and personal skills to make money. Learning how important it is to network, and just being able to adapt to anything is a must! Very glad to have come across this video👍
Music is a deep expression of life, and for some of us, it is so essential and rewarding that they take that sacred journey no matter what. May they become rich in life, richest in their soul, and they will have won everything that can ever be won -- no matter the outside world.
Sad reality of having so many talented people is that they end up making the level of competition so high that the barrier for entry is almost complete self sacrifice. Yeah, no thank you. I’ll play for me.
And the level keeps getting higher every year. I believe there are fewer full-time orchestral jobs in the United States than there are player positions in the NFL, and the quality of music graduates (nearly all of whom have master's degrees or above) is so high that often the best members of a section (in terms of talent and soloistic playing ability, not necessary experience) are "whoever joined most recently". Even part-time hourly regional orchestra are super competitive to get into, as those super-talented people who didn't make the cut at the full-time orchestras are all scrabbling for whatever work they can get. Teaching positions at top music schools and conservatories? Good luck.
You, Nahre, exhibit these same qualities in your videos, your superb RUclipss and Patreon productions, your superlative book! And of course, your music.
Lovely video Nahre. You are bringing so many important insights to light, especially for younger musicians. As someone who has been doing this for a long time, you illuminate the most important aspects of what it is to be a professional musician. cheers!
As a professional in my field, I can understand and appreciate the difficulties and sacrifices that one has to make to succeed in any field. Music is no different. But this video really shines a light on just how tough it is for any young student who wants this career path. Fortunately, I am such a horrible music student that I will never have to face this choice.
Lovely video as always, Nahre. This time, I'm especially appreciative of the amount of talk on mental health and the realistic depiction of the workload of musicians who play under extreme circumstances. It's heartening to hear that. I feel actually quite relieved watching this video, because I know there are now so many people out there who struggle with this sort of thing. Thank you for helping me!
Wow! This video was awesome! Thank you! I am a retired music professor and I wish that every music student would watch this. I am going to pass it on to all my music teacher colleagues to share with their music students who want to pursue a career in performance. Bravo!
Madeleine Vaillancourt: "...the times that it DIDN'T work out, I was destroyed. I was crushed, I couldn't play, I couldn't bring my .. I couldn't get out of bed ... and so it took me a while to figure out that as important as it is to have this drive, this hardworking mentality ... it is important to get back up on your feet when it doesn't work..." This is super important and is a skill that I did not possess early enough in the beginning of my (would be) music career. Unfortunately, my "event" was the terminus for me at that time, and I left music in all but the most casual ways. Something that now 38 years on, I regret. Regret is the worst, 'cause there really are no "do-overs."
My background is in session work and fairly high-level jazz and blues music and production. Looking back over the last 45 years I think I agree with the idea of adaptability as key, but the need to cultivate improvisational skills are a little bit different than training as a classical musician with fixed repertoire and ensemble work as a given. There is a lot of confusion around how to actually get work in jazz because the market has changed so much, especially after the pandemic. I am not familiar with the way it works in terms of orchestral residencies but being an individual who wants to play jazz or blues and make a living out of it is fairly complicated because it's a very oversaturated market, and it's filled with a lot of components of stylistic purism that can get in the way? Having a lot of technique and virtuosity is pretty common place now, and it has been since the advent of RUclips and access to a lot of information that really wasn't readily available when I started. There are also more intangible components as to what makes a jazz or Blues Musician interesting within the community of people who would be hiring. Technique is a very different environment in these fields because the requirements for being a good blues musician are not the same as being a good jazz musician and certainly not the same as that which is required to be a good classical orchestra musician. Working as a session musician is also completely different because it requires a level of adaptability and spontaneous problem-solving that's very unique under high stress levels. I think that the challenge that young Musicians face now is something that your friend alluded to which is, not having the drive to understand how to push themselves in a healthy way. Clear and honest self-assessment and the willingness to work really hard in order to get where they want to go is sometimes lacking in students that I speak with. With the advent of technology and a certain kind of impatience there is an expectation that things should happen more quickly than they actually usually do? I also think each person has their own individual path they have to process in order to get where they believe they want to go. There's a great Buddhist saying "that what you were seeking is what's causing you to seek.". I don't really know how to explain how I did what I did but I had a great life and a good career traveling the world and playing beautiful music with a lot of amazing people. At 61 years old I'm still working with amazing Musicians and I am grateful for the life that I have had and if you ask me I will tell you I have no idea how I did it. LOL Thanks for posting all of your great videos! They are always inspiring and informative.
I love this video! Making it to the top of your career is like climbing Mount Everest. I have a Musical Mount Everest list of goals. And enjoy the journey! I learned that it is best to compete with yourself and try to avoid comparing yourself to others. We all have different life circumstances, and bodies, and strengths and Weaknesses. I think what is of utmost importance too, is having a tea her that not only can help you with any musical or te h iCal difficulties, but one that cares about you as a human being, and nurture you. Not a teacher that simply wants you to be a machine. Your psyche and mental state is just as important as your physical health. I get involved with my students as human beings, without getting too personal, if they are not doing well. If they want to share more about themselves, that's up to them. You do have to maintain boundaries, while helping and nurturing them as musicians. But if they're suffering for any reason, they will never be able to sustain a career. That is why we're here--to help.
Most important is to start from an early age with good teachers and a family that have some classical knowledge. After that its up to how much passion you have.
This so easily goes for other talents that you want to make central. I've known a lot of people who are capable of good practice and good insight over short periods of time, but finding a way to go on through months, years and then decades when the inspiration dries up, or your reasons to love it seem to evaporate, or just when life presents lots of other easier options, has been personally speaking very difficult. The feeling though, when you dig down and find a deeper well of love, or all the aspects of the craft you're yet to explore and to realise how fortunate you are to even have the opportunity. A very good video as always Nahre Sol and good to point out how important drive and adaptability are. 고마워요!
Craft is not about love, though. Craft is how you pay for your love - ie, it is not about discovery or inspiration, it is about pure grind. And ideally, you never stop grindng, so you never stop paying.
Music has no age boundaries Somehow I felt that. In the teenage years, you can start or learn instruments as well not only in the spectrum of younger age I don't believe that I started playing guitar and piano at around 19 years of age I'm proud of that. Effort builds talent Keep in mind Not Everyone is born a musical genius
Great video! Not everyone has the luxury to start early or even has the skill set, but that should not stop them from becoming the best. We live once and at the end should have no regret for not having given the best we can. Good luck!
Nahre, thank you for enabling us to experience vicariously the reality of these elite musicians and singers. And thank you to the performers who shared their inner world, their secret struggles with us. Alice, your looking glass channel is a unique wonderland.
I think these are two of the traits needed for a successful career in any crowded field. Thanks for showing the background or behind the scenes for music professionals. Cheers.
I play electric guitar and have learnt classical pieces, I play very fast and intricate style that was new, since the 80’s I’ve spent thousands of hours on my own practicing and other musicians seem lazy and unfocussed. I totally get the classical mentality and I’d add the Yehudi Menuhin quote “Play every note like its the most important note you will ever play.”
I do think many of these points are specific to classical music. The barrier for entry for other genres varies a lot. However, I do think the level of commitment and adaptability are absolutely applicable to nearly all genres of music. When I think of rock music, the barrier of entry is quite low (all you really need is a guitar and a microphone lol) but the level of commitment required to become not just a good rock musician but a great one runs fairly parallel to that of classical, in my opinion. Its interesting to me though, that you don't need to be the "best" to make great music in the rock world. On the other hand, I think that is exactly the point of classical music. To me, the thesis of classical music is "how far can we push the absolute limit of technique and expression in music?" I do think you miss the point of the music if the musicians themselves aren't truly "world class" in every sense of the word. I suppose it is just a bit sobering to admit that it seems that the inaccessibility of classical music, from the perspective of a musician, is almost a part of its identity? Thanks for the honest look at this world.
Good video Nahre, as expected. To sum up what it takes to become the best (I left out "musician" intentionally) is the same in every job, in every field. It almost always takes everything you (as in your physical body and your mental strength) can bring to the table. Unsurprisingly you musicians suffer from the same issues as everyone else who's dedicated enough to become the best in her/his field. Nonetheless, the insights into your and your fellow musicians world are fascinating. Almost retired mechanical engineer here after more than 30 years of more or less succesfully trying to become the best 🙂
I guess it's important to have a Hermoine like mindset where you want to come at top but not have a Hermoine like mindset where coming out at top is linked to your self esteem
The idea is correct, but when you've worked THAT hard to be at the top, it's extremely difficult to separate what you do from who you are. They become linked. And that's when it can harmful to your psyche if you're not careful.
Thank you for this great video. I’m travelling now to go to an audition for a full time orchestral job and everything said here is pure gold. Stress and mental health are so underrated in our job but so important to treat in our everyday life. Thank you ❤
That drive to be the best is really the part that the majority don't have. Being proficient and advanced in a domain is incredibly far from being top in the world. Not everyone has that drive to be number one. Thanks again for another succinct video.
I started out classical, piano, but a guitar got me laid... and the rest has been history. I have a "gift" of sorts, playing American roots music. Lots of people told me to "get out there." A partner showed me how to do business, and I had at it. I got a lot of work, and found out that the music business was more about traveling and marketing, than music. It beat me up after 10 years... I became a welder. My travel expenses, vehicle upkeep, insurance, tolls, gas, all come out of my pay. I was always broke, even though I worked a lot. Practice? My work was my practice... I gave it my all.... but playing bars and restaurants are a lot different than concert halls... fewer listen. I performed solo, I carried all my amps, mic's, gear, set up, broke it down, carried it out, every job. The worse was someone coming up to me and talking to me, wanting to have a conversation, while I was singing/playing. The next was being asked to turn down, because they wanted to talk. I never looked at my music as competitive, but others would come up to me and compare my playing to others. I could see how competitive Classical can be. There so much to technique, and the pieces are intimately known by the competition... then there's touch. No two musicians sound the same, even on the same instrument... this adds another layer to tone. I wish I would've stuck with Classical piano... but I got really good at a specific genre. Practicing in those early days was a pleasurable obsession.... 6 to 12 hours per day, for a few years. I miss those times. Music was so exciting.
It's really interesting to hear about the lives of professional musicians and the dedication and hard work needed. I am happy to be an amateur and not to deal with the stress. Playing a musical instrument becomes a wonderful hobby when you don't have to worry about making money doing it.
I would say that this has an even broader scope than music and musicians. Most of the qualities and traits that are required to be a top musician are also required to be a top . For example, think of being a top athlete, a top engineer, a top doctor etc. Of course, this might not apply to all professions, but I do think reaching for the top requires a lot of common skills for many of them.
Nahre, thank you for producing such a candid and insightful video. You are incredibly effective at getting to, and sharing the core questions and issues - especially in this video. Before I viewed it, I decided to make my own guesses at the 2 traits you would highlight. No question, your choices are exceptional, very well thought out and I appreciate your expanding my views with them. Both of my guesses were different than yours, and attempt to distill down to the simplest traits I have ever come with, on my own. After looking at the most recent 30 or so comments, I was fascinated that so few mentioned the motivational trait: Passion. I feel that a trait that is motivational can possibly be helpful, above and beyond traits which might be interpreted as strictly requirements. Passion was part of my self-assessment about considering a career as a classical musician - I realized that I had more passion than talent, and that was insufficient. Although I would have enjoyed a career as a classical musician much more than the non-musical career I chose, I would have had to make many of the sacrifices which you shared, that so many classical musicians must make. I appreciate classical musicians even more now. My second guess of a trait was: Grit. Grit relates to both commitment and adaptability very well, but in different ways. Thank you for expanding my views. Hopefully, my comment may expand others views as well.
Having a passion for making music, and loving the process is essential. And having parents that never put a "wet blanket" on your dreams is a huge plus. Being the "best" is a shallow motivation. Being the best YOU can be, as often as possible , is more fulfilling.
A secondary thought - One reason why starting out with very slow practice, is that the right brain (emotions) and the left brain (analytical), need to be coordinated and brought into sync with each other. Science and medicine have discovered that this slow careful coordination between both hands, actually help to build together synaptic nerve ends, which is the communicative wiring of the total brain. When practicing slowly, start out with small, even tiny, units - 1 or 2 measures; or a half phrase perhaps. Select the hard spot of the composition! For string players, start by using no slurs, just straight bowings. Then reverse your down up bowing to up down bowing, then start using all kinds of bowings as found perhaps in the Kreutzer Etude #2 as a guide. Consider then starting at the end of the composition and working backwards. Mozart was once asked, and Beethoven and Brahms concurred, the mark of a genius or true artist is in "variations." - See Bach's Goldberg Variations for example! So should your practicing be too. Most of all - IN THE BEGINNING OF PRACTICING ON A WORK, NEVER SPEND MORE THAN 20 MINUTES ON A MEASURE OR TWO OR HALF PHRASE!!! Most human brains can not stay focused that long with constructive edifying long term comprehension. Stop practicing, take a brake, walk away and focus on something entirely different. When you practice, you are constructing a building. Each day you practice, you are learning and perfecting the skill of building easier and faster. When you reach a true performance level, you are then presenting to your listener a totally completed work of art in one instant. Most will think, "how in the hell can I do all this in the time allotted?" To do anything less than this is a waste of your most precious and valuable treasure - your time and life! You are the surgeon and you are operating on the greatest being in your life - YOU! And, if you are a spiritually minded being and believe in eternal life, when you die, everything you do in life and love, practicing and learning, you get to take it with you for eternity. The recent winner of the Van Cliburn Piano Competition, who is a very humble soul, starts his practice at 10am for two hours and then a two hour lunch. Then another two hours of practice. HOWEVER, even he takes a little break every 20 minutes!
If you are an institutional musician, to be "best" you must develop what the institution demands to a "best musician". If you are free, you just have to develop your potential YOUR WAY (e.g. the great jazzmen never allowed external constraints to determine what and how they had to play). Being a great musician has little to do with a professional position, It has to do with the music you play.
Right.. its so strange to me too.. I study jazz singing and mostly write my own songs. I mean: you certainly have pressure to improve your intonation, rhythm and technique, bust most of all you need to find your own language and tell a good goddamn story. People pay to feel something from your singing, not to hear that you are "better than anyone else". I mean more control is always good, as it gives more options for expressiveness, but its just as important that you even have something to express. There are so many techniqually great musicians that play boring music that one wants to hear.
Prior to watching this amazing video,i had shut down my studio set-up for the rest of the evening. But now, i just turned back on everything and will practice some more!! As with any passion in life, you need to learn to love the process and the results...and pushing yourself beyond your current limits is the way to go. I read such an inspiring book by Laido Dittmar on really learning and where any real progress really happens, it changed my way of practicing and where to focus while doing it, and i have reached level of playing i just thought were out of reach for me. Thank you Nahre for this incredible video!!!
The difference I see is about extrinsic and intrinsic motivations. And being a professional musician is one of the jobs that requires a lot of intrinsic motivation. And with few extrinsic motivations. Sometimes none until years and years later. Since people have a hard time with this concept, they'll just throw it at the innate talent trope. This is my interpretation of what your pianist friend said: Students lacking the fire in their eyes. (my second trait would be discipline. You have to know that this is your work. A lot of very hard work. And that's another concept that's sometimes lost "How is playing an instrument _work_ ?")
It's not even as simple as intrinsic motivation. Take technique: you need to embrace some highly regimented practice routines to get the flaws out of your technique. You need to not question the way they are taught - _make the extrinsic intrinsic_ - to successfully get thru the boredom/frustration that will inevitably ensue. You can't question the process until it shows results. It's the Goddamnedest thing, really.
@@andsalomoni I would argue that many unknown musicians often have the same level of ability, commitment, drive, and discipline, just without the external validation.
I was unmotivated that day during the piano lesson because of a bad experience at home. I asked my teacher how to play better even if I wasn’t in the mood. She told me that I needed to be resilient and adapt to be a professional musician. It was the moment I knew music wasn’t a career for me. I still love music and play piano for my family even if I am not a professional musician. Professional musicians are admirable. I’m thankful for their works and sacrifices.
Personally I think talent is overrated and telling an artist (especially as we see so often on those talent shows on TV) "ohh you're sooo talented" is acutally kinda disrespectful. To my experience the people on the top of their fields are more often than not not the ones that had the most talent in the beginning, but the ones with a good amount of talent that learned to overcome and persevere early on.
The one thing that goes unsaid in all of this is that you must be able to function well on very little sleep. That is often genetic. It's not just "wow, what a hectic schedule." It's literally about being a short-sleeper. Also, I have to admit, I find videos like this disheartening and depressing when they always go back to "start at three or you're a failure." This is like championship sports, not art. I'm happy to watch athletes do amazing things I haven't a prayer of doing because it's all about the insanity of what they're capable of, but art isn't about that -- or not only that. I often think of high-performance classical music and wonder how it can possibly reconcile telling audiences "this art form speaks to you!" and in the next breath saying "you are separated from this art by a yard-thick plexiglass wall." Sorry, I know this comment is a buzzkill. 😕
There is no evidence that being a short-sleeper is necessary for being a high-performance classical music. But by all means, continue to invent reasons for why you or others can't do it.
@@davidlewis5737 Any touring musician will tell you that being able to function on little sleep is important. And I'm not inventing reasons for anything -- I'm defining "it" -- what exactly is it that this music is, art or extreme sport? And how can an audience relate to something this extreme?
@@jcortese3300 Many jobs require working with little sleep (at times), making it an unremarkable trait. The military for example? If you are suggesting the average performing classical musicians has some short-sleep genetic variation, that is a baseless claim.
@@davidlewis5737 I think it's an interesting thing to look into, and I'm prepared to be proven wrong. To my other -- more important -- point: does the status of this kind of music as almost an extreme sport interfere with its role as an art form?
Actually, you are correct. There have been studies done on this in the business world. The consistent high performers do have a gene that makes it so their bodies need less sleep to perform at the same level as others. I found it very interesting to say the least.
Kinda disappointed that privilege is not talked about at all. I think having rich parents that can afford to give you a musical education from a really young age is way more important than the two traits you mentioned. You're even more lucky if they are musicians too. I've studied classical music myself for years and I've seen a really strong correlation between making it as a musician and having at least one parent who is a musician. I'm not saying that being the child of a musician is a free ticket to fame and skill, but it definitely helps. Being able to cope with mental stress can also be attributed to genetics for a great part. Of course you can work on it, but if you are particularly susceptible to mental stress there's only so much you can do about it.
I think it depends where you live. There are lots of good piano teachers who don't charge a huge amount of money. You could spend a fortune on lessons but if the student isn't dedicated, or isn't interested enough, paying for lessons is not going to play the instrument for them
@@freesiajasmine534 But nobody is saying having access to expensive private tuition is an automatic path to professional musicianship. The point is given two dedicated students, the one with better education access has far better odds of success in the hyper-competitive field. No, it's not a guarantee, but it is absolutely a filter. And regardless of where you live, you're still looking at around $5k/year for private tuition. That's a lot of any working family.
Good information. However, it does not explain where they get their money to live their lives. In my experience, it is rare that anyone that has this much time to spend on their talent does not already have that taken care of. And that to me is what creates the illusion. The rest of us have to divide our time between what we feel we were meant to do and a job that sustains us. Thus, the talent gap grows between those that have money and connections and those that don't.
What you said in the end about these personality traits not belonging to just musicians specifically resonates with me a lot. Like you said, the skill is a bare basics. Sadly, not everyone who loves music gets to be trained at 3 years old but that skill is a must. I feel like I have that drive to be good but life gets in the way. As a trained biologist, I do feel like I am in a position where these traits help me achieve. But the only way I think I can become a great musician and still maintain a good income is to sacrifice my social life to practice after work.
I am a jazz singer (still studying) and especially a singer songwriter. I can totally understand that you need to give a lot to make your playing/singing/songwriting the best you can. But somehow I dont understand this extreme competion. I want to ideally write music that evokes an image, that makes people feel like they are in a completely different world for a moment, just like some music does for me. Of course a big toolbox of techniques and musical language and good musical imagination are neccesary to craft a good song. But I dont think I neccessarily need to be the best at audiation, or coordination, or intonation or whatever (although it certainly wouldnt harm). Many of the people I love often dont have the greatest intonation or technique in the world, but they tell a good story, which is more important imo.
@@jonasm.8128 It sort of has to be. Being "impressive" is only a small, superficial part of it. Having the skills to be impressive, however, is the foundation needed to be able to be sublime, which is the real point. (This is what heavy-metal fans never understand about classical; they never get past the "impress people by playing fast" part, which is sort of grade-school level achievement in the classical world.)
@@jonasm.8128 I guess the difference is in what you provide. I compared someone who would write the song, the lyrics and has a lot of freedom in the sounds he chooses to use (in jazz and pop I am allowed to use a ton of vocal effects and sounds while classical singer have a very narrow ideal), to someone who offers his abilities on his instrument to play someone elses composition under the guidance of someone (i dont know the english term). Its probably more comparable to studio musician or a hired background singer than an original artist. You need flawless technique, intonation and rhythm, because otherwise they would just hire someone else. Its a difference if you paint the whole picture or just offer your abilities on your instrument.
As a composer, i remember my graduation concert where someone in the audience told me "what a talent !" : i almost took it as an insult... Of course it was not and i politely answer "thank you very much", but, i would like to add "no it's not talent ! you didn't saw me in the studio, alone for hours, crying on my own f****g scores ! fighting against the blank page ! and the tons of paper in the garbage can !". I would like people truly appreciate the WORK, "talent" do not exist, and if it does it's just a personal way to express ourselves, so everyone has talent. Thank you for this video.
Really agree with the points you have made. Talent is the baseline; without it, you might as well end the pain early:) But a desire to work hard, and be resilient is what separates the talented from the exceptional. I would also add that hard work is important, but also working smart. I logged so many thousand hours of practice during my 15 years as an aspiring professional musician, but in retrospect I realize that most of those hours were a waste - because I was just 'putting in the time' and expecting some magic to happen.
It's interesting when I translate this to the career of acting. I have studied acting for many years, and over that time have known many an actor/actress who had an incredible drive to succeed. But what I have found to be equally as important as drive, if not more so, is having an ease and confidence about your career. The actors who had the most drive of anyone I knew, were usually not the most successful ones. Rather, it was those who were somehow able to shed the anxiety and worry about their future and just have fun and relax into the work, who ended up with quite a bit of success in the business. (I myself am still trying to get to that level of confidence and ease, but several acquaintances from my classes have done very, very well from embodying those qualities.)
There's a wonderful book by Anders Ericsson called "Peak" from memory. He was one of the world's leading authorities on expertise and human performance, working with the world's leading musicians, athletes, scholars etc. Really changed my understanding of achievement and what is required to develop expertise, at all levels. Has made a difference to my kids, both musicians, athletes and good little scholars - and loving it. Thank you for this vid - Dave
Ericsson pretended that talent and genetics didn’t matter, for ideological reasons. Turns out they clearly do. He was probably right about training amount and types of training (deliberate practice).
@@100c0c It's some time since I read Peak, but in it he spells out the key ingredients that go into achieving excellence. Such things as: good mentoring, feedback loops, focussed repetition etc., all seemingly obvious but he puts it in clear terms and my kids and I have applied them in many pursuits - music, academics, sports etc., and they are powerful and effective. I also subscribe to the notion as explained by Ericsson from many decades of specific research, that we aren't born with some kind of "innate talent" for something, rather an orientation towards that something and possibly the right set of circumstances to help us pursue it with vigour. It would be a bummer if you were born in 1100 with a talent for playing the piano (pianos weren't in existence then). 🙂 He gave great examples of how the top musicians, athletes, artists, academics etc., have applied these principles to get to where they did and although, in our case, we're not striving to reach the pinnacle of achievement in anything, we are certainly able to make the most of the time we put into our pursuits and I'm seeing the results with both kids excelling in sports, music and at two of Australia's top selective schools - with no tutoring and having a relatively relaxed childhood, unlike their peers who don't know these principles. So, you could say that Peak has made a very positive impact on us and that's why I recommend it. Cheers - Dave
@@peterfireflylund Hmmm - that's quite a statement. I wonder what basis you have to make such a claim. Does it really turn out that "talent and genetics" are crucial? Have you dedicated your life to study these things scientifically? No doubt genetics play some part in certain athletic pursuits but how about "talent"? Ericsson put forth a very sound set of reasons, none of which are "ideological".
Amazing video. I agree with all you said but its also the believe in your abilities has to next level. She talked about when things dont go well, but it is very easy to think they didnt go well because you are just not at that level. I found when i was at music school it was the ones that had that belief who ended up eventually winning the competitions and auditions, and people like me just faded away! :)
That sounds like an unhealthy amount of stress, especially on the long run. It's really unfair to make life that hard for musicians! They create so much beauty for the world and deserve better work conditions.
Our society makes life that hard for pretty much all artists, and it's only gotten worse as we devalue the importance of art, and the skill it takes to create it.
Thank you so much for bringing this rare and precious content to the world. We don't hear enough from the top professional talk about how to become and keep being the top, this is very inspiring.
I think, Nahre, that most people do not know that being a professional musician is basically being an entrepreneur in a sole proprietorship. I do not think even professional musicians realise this. Basically, you have to learn the skills to become a musician first. After which, you become a salesman of yourself to a target audience. This is the summation of being a professional musician. And the two qualities Nahre mentioned are exactly what is needed as an entrepreneur trying to build a one man company. If I would add a third quality, it would be the ability to sell your commodity (which is your musicianship) the right way to the right audience. Lots of musicians focus so hard on the skill and forget the sale of the skill. And that was also my experience.
I am a lifelong musician, have played with world class classical musicians in UCLA orchestra, band, and jazz ensemble, I have played organ in a church, dixieland, hip hop, classic rock, orignials in rock star wannabe bands, did my 10,000 hours on tuba and organ (and piano, synth, etc). I played at the top level of local pop music, with [people who were able to "quit the day job". I studied with good teachers, including a tuba master class with Tommy Johnson, the guy who played the ominous two not theme in "Jaws", numerous movies and tv shows, world famous tuba player. The answer to most "or" questions is "some of both". Like pro athletes, there are some who were naturals and worked less hard, and some who had average talent that worked their bottoms off. All of them have a combination of natural talent and hard work. Genetics plays a role, some people are pitch deaf and no amount of work will make them great. Others have a knack for it and progress fast with less work. My hands barely stretch an octave, so my high school organ teacher told me I just couldn't play pro classical. There is taste and there is chops. You can improve chops with practice, although you may hit the limit of your physical capabilities. Not sure you can improve taste. Some people have a natural feel for what sounds good, some don't. It's complicated, even personality and behavior is a factor. Also, do you want to - some people like performing, some don't. That comes through independent of skills. In pop, There are beloved successful musicians of moderate skills, and there are people with incredible chops that just don't connect with an audience. Each of us brings our own combination of natural and earned and there is no universal answer.
Yes, all musicians don t necesseraly want to spend their lives rehearsing répertoire works, there are more interesting things to do in life than running after recognition..
@@MarnixMohrmannPiano If one is so passionate about their art that s/he can't not live and breath it, then that's what s/he is going to do. It's a force of Nature. And it's a wonder to witness ... and I'd never consider impeding one so focused and determined to realize his/her vision. Great note. Thx! ~TD
@@tropicjam7343 Sounds cliche, but I agree with the "To each, their own" approach. Not my place to tell others what they do or don't want, or what is or is not interesting to them. If they want to dedicate themselves to a craft that makes our world more beautiful, then they have my full support. ~TD, Boston
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Everyone ignores that you have to be born into the right situation to begin with. Most people are not able to buy instruments and take lessons or have connections needed to study music at these levels. There's the luck involved - being lucky to be put in a situation where you can even truly dream of becoming a musician. I can't imagine how many actual Mozart's exist who are unable to bring their music into the world because they weren't born into a situation that allowed them to nurture their skills.
I agree. Unfortunately, this is super depressing and doesn't make good content, so it tends to be ignored. Unless your family can provide ~$50k in private tuition over a decade (plus instrument costs, plus time to get you to and from lessons), you're in for a serious uphill battle against those who do have that advantage.
Who cares. Maybe they became doctors or something. There's more to life than music
@@juliejules7780 not for all. We talk about peoples who ready to sacrifice for music and definitely love music and cannot live without.
Oh, c’mon. Plenty of people from very poor backgrounds have become famous musicians. Don’t you think the real difference is not the top talent, but the middle? It’s the competent orchestra musician, not the top tier, that is helped most by adequate wealth. My uncle was an orchestra violinist, also played with Dorsey, and was a band leader, and supplemented income as an insurance salesman. His family were immigrants and never rich. His son went to Berkeley on a scholarship and taught at Juilliard. Also played with Tommy Dorsey Band (post Dorsey), but preferred playing R&B to symphonies. My lawn man’s daughter graduated from Juilliard.
All pretty much middle middle class.
@@nunyabidness3075 This is called selection bias and is not how statistics work (it's also all unverifiable). Saying you know a guy who did well in spite of x is not the same as saying x has no impact on musical career outcomes.
When you look at things like conservatory student bodies, you'll see that individuals from poorer socio-economic backgrounds are far less represented. That's not to say they don't exist at all, just that they're not present in the student body at the same rate as the general population. Background absolutely matters. One person bucking that trend doesn't invalidate the claim any more than a lottery winner makes it worthwhile to gamble.
And that shouldn't be too surprising. If your parents don't own a standalone house, you're going to be limited in your time to practice. If your parents can't afford expensive private tuition, you're at a disadvantage to students whose parents can afford.
In my 20s I practiced a lot. As an amateur in my 30s I got recruited a lot for unpaid, then low paid gigs. In my late 30s music started paying well, and in my 60s I've been full time for 25 years. For me, persistence has been most important.
That's awesome! Congrats :D
This is similar to my story. I didn't start really making a living at music until my 40s.
What instrument you play
as a 34 year old programmer who wants to change career to a professional accompanist, this makes makes me so happy to hear
@@funicon3689 Software dev here with love for music, but I will not give up my carrier of developer after spending 15 years to master my craft :)
1. extreme sense of universal awareness of everyone and everything around you, 2. extreme self control and discipline in maintaining a consistency in daily SLOW practice, 3. TALENT, 4. HUMILITY, 5. the ability to sincerely enjoy music, to be committed, to always desire to learn from everyone, 6. to be flexible and adaptable, 7. to understand its not how long you practice, but how carefully you practice, 8. to be able to enjoy extreme slow and soft practice, 9. to be able to practice and play in your mind, mentally without your instrument. 10. to have a life outside of music!!!
Thank you sooo much!!! It really motivated me and you are 100% right. I will safe these 10 beautiful golden rules. It is really precious information, thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I'll try my best to make the world a better place and I sincerely know, that very very high quality music is soooo important for human soul. It could change their lives...
Lol, sometimes I think that #2 in the list is the absolute ace of spades. My regrets are focused around that. Not enough practice, not good enough practice....
That covers the technical aspect of playing your instrument. The musical aspect involves an in depth study of harmony and counterpoint and vitally, extensive ear training. A highly skilled musician should be instantly able to identify notes, chords and how they interrelate. Here is an example (albeit extreme) of great musical talent ruclips.net/video/hli-9maxDjY/видео.html
The 'slow and soft' is maddening! (but I know I should do it) (I will force myself next practice)...
@@wbiro YES I know but you should try to look at it as if you are in some kind of meditation. By doing it in that context you will grow in skill and in an appreciation leading to self fulfilment and then finally a love.
I think it's important to note that this mostly applies to high level classical musicians.
I am a pretty good pianist, but I'm certainly not even remotely close to the skill of concert pianist, yet I make a pretty decent living playing the piano on various parties, events and in restaurants.
You don't need to give up your life to make your passions work. You just need to find the way that works for you
There is nothing wrong with that. If you're doing what fulfills you and you just so happen to making a good living at it, that's success in my book.
💯
> I think it's important to note that this mostly applies to high level classical musicians.
They set the ethos for _all_ work in music - the process as well as the product. Drive from within + direction from without.
They own the work ethic, as the strictest workers always do. It's never those with the most human qualities, but those who master their humanity in the name of doing.
As a rock and blues guitarist, I think there are some valuable points here. You should want to focus on constant learning and improvement as well as having the drive to develop your craft and be the best you can be. 🎸
Some people do actually want to be the best that they can possibly be. Trust me if you want to be as good as a Steve Vai, or Jeff Beck, you're going to be practicing just as hard as any classical musician, the same goes for a dancer, or a painter. Most people find a level they're comfortable at attaining and stay there, but the people who want to reach for the brass ring, and are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are a special breed. And while the rest of us might shake our heads at the commitment and work they put in to get there, we all are fortunate that those people exist.
After almost 20 yrs of playing music professionally (not classical) I finally realized that 1. I love music so much and 2. Making a living playing music was robbing me of that love. I was happier at working menial jobs and pursuing the love of music, both playing and listening and exploring it.
A friend of mine could have been a professional musician, but decided she wanted to enjoy it rather than be a job, so chose another profession and does music socially
I think you are right. Music is for joy, not to burden yourself with being perfect. Just play and enjoy.
@@henryvuong365 a foot solder have to run to catch up with a leader on a horse back.
Yes I’d rather volunteer and play for people to help and comfort them than be famous and such.
Same here, the pressure of making music a job just robbed the joy for me. I’m just happy being able to practice and improve in my little music room at home.
We‘re all so lucky to have people in this world who work incredibly hard to bring us wonderful music😊
Agreed!
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Yes, including the composers who write the music.
@@Remour Yes. They're a rather important part of the process. Contribution, not to be overlooked. 👍
@@NahreSol hi, pls suggest practice routine for someone who started learning western classical theory at 20 and also trinity piano program. How many hours of piano practice will be required to become a classical pianist in 2-3 years?
I have a background in high level sport. I've noticed many similarities between sports and music, and this video solidified those thoughts. Replace every "musician" and "music" with "athlete" and "sport," and the video would still flow seamlessly. I am in complete agreement that to achieve a top level, total commitment and adaptablity are vital. Singular focus, almost to obsession, hours of training, being very self-critical and possessing the ability to change course at a moments notice are all necessary to even have a chance to reach the top.
Excellent video!
If the aim is to "win" (as the violinist in the video says), then music is indistinguishable from sport competitions.
But I think that competition is what really damages music, always.
@@andsalomoni Yes, it's a shame that something so spiritual has to be reduced to something so base.
@@andsalomoni Competition in sports pushes athletes towards the sublime, while competition in the arts pushes the artists away from the sublime. That difference is kind of peculiar.
@@KitagumaIgen Exactly.
In sports there is almost always a quantitative barrier to break (jump more than x meters high, run in less than y seconds), in arts there can't be such a quantification.
That's why competition reduces art to a measurement, which is a degradation of art.
Is Picasso "more" or "less" valuable than Van Gogh? Totally meaningless question.
Yes. There is so many similarities between music and sports.
I am certainly grateful for classical music and the musicians that keep it alive but I also feel like there is something horribly wrong lurking somewhere inside it today. There's so much more to music than being the best, beating the competition, and wanting to win. I grew up in a trailer park and had a dorky Casio keyboard that I loved to play. I heard songs on the radio and on movies and I tried my best to copy them on my keyboard. I didnt have many resources or any teachers. Now a few decades later I play jazz piano at a fairly high level. I have an unrelated career but I make extra by playing paid gigs that I want to play and tbh it's more than I ever thought I could make.
I don't say this as a way to brag or create some sob story I'm saying this because it's not so far off other professional musicians lives that I know. For the sake of the music and the enjoyment we got out of playing it drove us to where we are. Every step of the way has been enjoyable for me. If I hear something I like that I don't know how to play I instantly become obsessed with trying to figure it out. It's fun and it slowly adds to my abilities. Hearing someone play something that I can't or better than I can isn't a threat to me it's an opportunity. I get the chance to build a relationship and learn from it all because of music.
I know this is biased to my area but if I were to look at all the paid gigs available to piano players right now very few are for classical music. The majority are for all kinds of different projects and genres of music. If I show up at a gig and the competition is a classical pianist that has this mindset of "why bother with being second best" and has always won and has been better than everyone else he's gone up against but now wants to make more money and branch out of classical, to put it lightly he's gonna lose. And not just by a little bit he's effectually going to "eat my dust" as they say in the competitive world. Most likely he couldn't improvise over Mary Had a Little Lamb and no there's no sheet music because you're the one tasked with coming up with your own part. I can offer not just one idea for a part but many. If someone asked me to change something I can give 5 different takes on the spot. All while enjoying the heck out of it and depending on the gig is nearly effortless for me.
Again not to brag but to say there's so much more to music than competition. There's other and maybe even better definitions of success. There's many things that can drive people to achieve something, just know that passion, enjoyment, friendliness, kindness and love of music is a very very powerful driver to success if it's felt strongly enough
I think your comment deserves more upvotes. If given the choice between you and a classical pianist as my teacher, I’d probably choose you, because what you said truly inspires me. I like your philosophy on music, and the way you approach music, and your open mindset, and I agree with you, there’s more to music, and there’s more to success, than what is said in the video. I love classical music but I’ve always found the elitism in that world to be needlessly restrictive and exclusive. While that is a whole other topic, I suspect on some level that attitude stems from the belief that to be a successful classical musician, you have to win the game, beat everyone else, win every competition, show them who’s the boss, and that fosters a mindset of exclusion, rather than openness. I don’t want to one day approach the piano bench with that mindset of me having to be the star or lose the game, my mind would just go: ‘Remember the day you started the journey because you wanted to explore the wonders of music? Whatever happened to that?’. While that mentality surely has merits, I find yours to be more embracing of growth, curiosity, and welcoming others into the realm of music. And yes, there are more than one definition of success as a musician, being a soloist in a prestigious orchestra is not the only way to succeed. But oddly enough, in a video about adaptability, I don’t think many classical musicians are open-minded enough to acknowledge that even to play in small gigs, and to accompany lesser-known pop singers well, is a success, and the pianists able to pull those off know more skills than them. Again, the elitism.
Everything you described is the exact definition of competitive advantage. You are just blind to realizing it.
@@disinformationworld9378can you explain further? I'm genuinely interested
@Disinformation World Thats why I put it in the context of a competition at the end of my comment. I've advanced to where I am simply because I enjoy doing it. I've never had a formal lesson, I've never won a competition or trophy, I can't play the mega technical pieces most professional classical musicians can but throughout the years of a lot of playing I'm at a point where I've developed more adaptability and competitiveness outside the classical context.
Regardless that's not why I did it. I just like the piano. That's all there is to it really.
A very interesting take on the different dynamics of competition between classical music and other genres that deserves a video by itself.
Beginning at a very young age *in that strict and hardworking environnement* is definitely a predominant factor. Started piano when I was 7 and my teacher never wanted me to put in too much work or add stress, he just wanted me to have fun. 14 years later that's exactly the type of classical pianist that I am. I sure can play hard pieces and got a broad repertoire, but I never bother to perfect those tough bars or candenzas because it requires a ton of work
Just out of curiosity, do you think that strict and hardwork focused teaching is better than encouraging a student to have fun playing? I personally think your teacher sounds like the perfect teacher, such a small minority of people can and even would actually ever want to become a musician, so I think its much better to focus teaching to serve the majority of people who are more likely looking for a fun hobby.
@@BuffaloBillBtch it depends on your goal. my teacher (that has been with me since i was 10) is very meticulous and demanding, and it was a important factor to define how i view my music studies. for a short period of time i had a teacher who was very chill about everything, but since i have a tendency to procrastinate if i'm not under pressure, the time i spent with her wasn't good to me at all. you have to look to your necessities to know if a teacher is "better" to you or not, everyone has their own particularity.
@@BuffaloBillBtch Like others have said in the comment section, as a kid it sure was a boon. But as I got older and tackled harder pieces, I would have prefered a stricter teacher. He was too lenient. We're still good friends though :) Btw I refered to myself as a classical pianist, that sure is the case but it’s not my job 😅
@@kuroneko9270 Do you believe meticulousness can be compatible with a way of teaching that respects the individual? Put another way, is there a pitfall or danger in respect for the individual?
I'm currently studying composition and it's really stressful. Got burnt-out in 2019 and almost got into a depression. Now I'm a lot better and it is still very hard to handle the work at college and the other musical activities I'm into. So yes, it is not only passion, talent and love for music, it is learning how to handle stress, when to stop if it's unhealthy and not productive and try to always improve in your musical area. I'm so thankful for this kind of videos. We need more musicians talking about what is like to be a musician, so people can understand and respect our job
> it is learning how to handle stress
which for a performer, i think means a certain, fairly high, level of _acceptance._ not trying to always put it into perspective, nor develop strategies beyond the anxieties of the practice room and the greenroom.
we can add stressors that we don't need to be there. they're fair game to work on. but there are many we can't take away without a real cost. when it comes to the day-in-day-out, background stressors of traditions, personalities, ethos and lifestyle, it can only be a matter of just saying "bring it on."
this is a subjective field, and also a regimented one. that means others' subjectivity can affect you. the factors of tradition, personality, and ethos are all at least part bullshit. but when others' subjectivity can affect you, so can their bullshit, or even just the everyday background bullshit. the bullshit _matters._
once we say "to hell with stress, no more bullshit, i play music for the love of it," it really is a kind of quitting. all because so many others are waiting to push us aside. they show greater devotion to the background stressors and believe more loyally in the bullshit, in the name of fame, excellence, or just the opportunity to be heard. at any level, it is a privilege for others to be aware of you.
the conditioning is deep and it is widespread. therefore, breaking it comes at a higher cost than if music were just something in the trees and the breeze. instead, it is a system - a random and capricious system, but still a system.
I understand completely where you're coming from! I was in your same situation during my years in university, where I never felt like giving up on music, but...well, giving up on life several times, frankly. The stress and burnout from university was at times too much to bear, and I spent four of my five-year time in university just running on fumes.
I wish I could (have) handle(d) stress and expectations as seamlessly as professional musicians do, but...I just don't have the grit. I appreciate professionals who have what it takes these days.
Depression sometimes is the indication of a need to change the life pathway. Quit.
During that time, did you still have the love for music or did you get it back completely after it got better? Are you still able to enjoy it?
I'd never want to know what would've happened to me if I'd quit music. Sometimes I have to struggle between what aspects of music to stick with--playing or composing--but I'd never be able to entirely give up music.
"Talent is the entry point." Very nicely summed up there. That was a terrific piece of video journalism. You really captured a clear and authentic take on that world. Many thanks!
Sometimes even “enthusiasm” is enough for an entry point. I remember as a teenager I knew someone that I at the time didn’t think was very talented, but who was super enthusiastic about music and just absorbed everything. Went on to the music conservatory, and now play in national symphony orchestras, plop up on tv in broadcasting orchestras etc. That drive that she talks about was very much there the whole time.
@@truecuckoo But for those who don't quite make it, they're no less driven. A dozen people can commit their lives to pursuing a career in music, but if there are only positions available for three, then you have nine others whose stories are untold. Those stories don't really make for good content, unfortunately, since they typically result in some sort of depression.
@@syntaxlost9239 yeah it can get dark. But I think that’s where adaptability comes in. And to enjoy the detours and take them on just as seriously as the top spots. But in any scene where the top spots are the highly sought after positions, there’s gonna be a lot of people not reaching there for sure. There’s no avoiding that. Perhaps this should also be a topic of discussion at the conservatories.
@@truecuckoo The conservatories are another dark part of the music industry with how much they've been twisted into a money-making machine set to exploit their students.
One thing that will never be covered (because it is super depressing and doesn't make good content) is how much coming from a family of means plays into becoming a top tier classical musician. Private tuition for over a decade at ~$5k/year is not accessible to most. Tens of thousands of dollars for a top shelf instrument is not accessible to most. ~$40k/year for Juilliard is really putting yourself in a huge financial hole for a career that usually doesn't pay anywhere nearly proportional to the amount of hours and money required to get in... if you even get in.
I guess you did have talent enough to make it at some point in your life. That’s the whole point, even the very best don’t wake up one morning “suddenly the Best”. Talent is the entry point, what you make of it is your decision.
I think these are good points. I do however believe there is room to live as a musician without needing to reach the top or be the best.
That it heavily depends on which type of music, the expected level of audience and travel.
Absolutely, I agree.This is why I mention that it’s not for everyone at the end of the video….
@@NahreSol Yeah, my bad :) Commented right before the end of the video and got distracted. Very fun to get insight like this! Thanks for making this video
for instance, jazz fanship has retreated to a few urban centers. it's almost as if, without young competitive players, there's no audience.
indeed, many listeners aren't out to hear something they might dig. they're out to prove their hipness as part of a happenin' scene.
Yeah and talent has nothing to do with it it’s what you want nothing to do with kind of music I have to say it’s how far you’re willing to go that’s it can be any style
@@vishnugiridran8847 I'd argue that talent is a component for sure. That isn't to say it makes it automatically easy. Talent is maybe 20-30%, the rest is hard work. But it comes more naturally when the talent component is there, there is no denying that. And starting at a young age will make it way easier vs starting at an adult.
One thing that came to mind to me is having the social support system to get you through all of this. I’m older and studied music during the period where the predominant teaching style could fairly be called abusive (thankfully this seems to be far less of the case today), for whatever reason. Without much of a support system it was just impossible to get through. You can be internally motivated, but it just only goes so far. Maybe this is something that is just assumed, like talent and motivation? But as a young person who really wanted to be a musician but washed out, I think it would have been helpful to understand that this is something you just can’t do on your own, if you’re socially isolated. Or at least, it becomes massively more difficult.
That’s true. So much talent gets waisted because of that.
Massively more difficult, for sure, but not impossible. Beethoven didn't exactly have the greatest support. At the end of the day, it's all on you. If you think you can't win because you don't have enough support, then you will certainly lose, -not because you don't have enough support, but because you've convinced yourself you can't win, and have already begun blaming it on other people (I've been there). It's all on you.
thank you this comment made me feel a little better
@@ritazanin1429 Back in the day, there was no logic or system, only tradition, and tradition was embodied in the master player. By definition a master player was a master teacher - a talent for teaching was judged only on outward results, and a soul for teaching wasn't even a thought.
All was mystified in the tradition, except what produced results... _sometimes, for some people_ The exceptions, with what we today know as wasted talent, only served to prove the rule. Those who failed were unequal to the task, period.
Now we call it the master tradition. Once, it was the _only_ tradition.
@@5BBassist4Christ Perhaps something to be said here relative to whether you're an introvert (draw more energy from solitude) or extrovert (draw more energy from environmental/social stimulation). From the video it does seem like resiliency in solitude is absolutely necessary. Moving to a new place means you have to be able to uproot and still find the motivation to keep going when you lose that social support. That being said, I think people who are able to still find their drive through solitude as adults are perhaps those who benefited from some sort of unconditional love, positive regard growing up. Beethoven might be the exception, and one that stands out for a reason: composing may very well have been a therapy for him, a mean to externalize his suffering, and perhaps that's in part why he touches so many people, beyond all the hard work he put in for his craft of course.
After a lifetime as a professional musician, I could fill up many pages of response. I play bluegrass, folk, swing guitar, and fiddle. 15 years ago I discovered an amazing niche. I started performing solo for retirement communities i sing popular music from the 20th century, and have done close to 3000 of these shows. No competition, I just play my heart out and bring new life to people through Music. One of my personal favorite quotes is "They don't care as much how good you are as… How good you make them feel." A few of the things that have served me in life are one, do a variety of things in life for money, enjoy a low cost of living, get the best instruments, you can possibly afford, practice plenty, think of yourself as a holy person - we bring great gifts and it is an honor to be doing it.
My own journey involved the the discovery that I had started too late. I grew up as a big fish in a small pond, and everyone said I was so talented. But my parents were poor, so I never had lessons. When I got to college, I found I was just good enough to get by. If it hadn't been for my good ear and natural grasp of theory, I would have had to change majors.
When I got to Nashville, I simply stopped calling myself a musician. Those cats are off the charts. My favorite studio guitarist there gets up at 5am and practices until 7am. Then he spends all day going from studio to studio.
In Nashville, I had some success as a commercial music writer, but soon focused on audio engineering, and have had a successful career in that field. But I never gave up on my dream to make a living writing music. At 60 I'm still at it, and still learning. Your channel is a big inspiration to keep going.
For those of us who want to live without these kinds of sacrifices, there are many ways to make music a career, if not at this stratospheric height.
I agree if you are talking about becoming a pop musician. Otherwise pls explain what you are saying.
@@vishwajeetbabbar7622 Teaching, researching, working with "less demanding" (note the quotes) orchestras/ensembles/programmes to mention 3.
Music doesn’t like to play second to anyone or anything except God himself. To be the best at anything requires sacrifice. I’ve been at this for 30 years. I’ve worked with some of the best in the world in so many capacities (writing, performing, playing, producing, management, recording, mixing, consulting, teaching etc.). The drive and the stories are the same across to board irrespective of genre…this life is not for the faint or if you want normalcy.
It was best said by Mike Stern (miles Davis alumni):
If you want to be a musician, DON’T, it’s a hard life with a lot of hard knocks…but if you HAVE TO BE…it can be the greatest job in the world.
Ej
@@vishwajeetbabbar7622 Yes, being a pop musician is another way to have a musical career. Huge success is statistically improbable, but many pop musicians make a living and make great music that people love by becoming studio musicians, hired guns, even playing in local groups and cover bands. It's not a major symphony orchestra, but it's music and it has an audience.
More than that, a musician can make a career by playing in a variety of settings. I know a guy who's lived his whole life playing the accordion in polka bands for dances and old folks homes, he travels regularly to gigs in Vegas and Orlando, as well as playing the organ at churches. If he can make money and people like, who's to say his career is any less important than a virtuoso who plays in an orchestra? Plus he's been able to live in one area, raise a family, and though he's diligent about practicing, it's only about half an hour a day.
There's also teaching from giving guitar lessons out of your basement for a little extra cash to working at shops for a living to teaching at schools, leading school choruses and bands, introducing children to singing and playing right up to honing tomorrow's stars.
Plus you can make some money by making music on RUclips!
In this video she's talking about a very rarified atmosphere of musicianship, which is wonderful. My point it most successful musicians find ways to make a living while making music that are very different and no less legitimate or important.
@@ericjackson5156 So there really IS nothing but the best...
I don't think this necessarily applies to classical musicians as much since they are usually performing other composers' work, but a musician that plays their own original music, I think another very important factor that propels people to higher levels of success is uniqueness and ability to be vulnerable to fully express themselves. There are lots of artists who aren't the technical best, but they are so perfect at being themselves that it shines through and makes them more compelling.
Performing other composers' work can be very demanding since the listeners have heard the music performed many times before by great orchestras and musicians. The comparison between you and those other musicians will drive you to practice more and attempt to perform a the highest level. Writing and performing your own music takes different skills but I don't think that alone makes you a better musician, perhaps just more unique. I am 81 years old and have played music since I was 6 years old and I still learn more about performing or writing music every time I dive into a new music project. I love taking classic songs and tunes and turning them into my own version of those songs/tunes, creating and performing live are the most enjoyable parts of music for me.
Can we appreciate the fact that these amazing musicians found some time in their filled to the brim schedule to talk and share tips to us viewers? Amazing content as always
For me the most important thing as a musician is to find something nobody else can imitate - trust me, this will feed you forever - MEANWHILE challenging yourself through many many auditions, competitions etc where you have to fight against literally EVERYONE doing exactly the same thing, to keep yourself motivated and nervous. In case of myself, I am a melting pot of violinist, violist, theory teacher, writer (both in English and Korean), and bassist (electric). Music is wayyyy more versatile than anyone can possibly imagine. Don't give up. Practice. Love the music. Trust me - something will happen for sure.
Adaptability is definitely an overlooked virtue in music. Sometimes it is adapting from one style to another, sometimes it's adapting from one gig to another. Even adapting to a new instrument when you upgrade your gear seems like a setback at first, but is better in the long run. Adapting to the reverb in a concert hall, or the dead-space in a recording studio. Adapting between sheet music, rhythm charts, lead sheets, and even playing by ear. Adapting from your neighbors complaining about you being too loud, adapting from the business of life, adapting to new techniques you're learning. I think if a person has everything it takes to be a world-class musician, the failure to adapt could single-handedly destroy their career.
Excellent video. Here’s a story about a composer:
In a reminiscence published recently in the Japanese newspaper Nihon Keizai Shimbun, the composer Shin'ichirō Ikebe wrote about when he entered the Department of Composition at the Tokyo University of the Arts in 1963. One of the teachers asked the students in the incoming class to show him any music they had happened to compose since passing the entrance examination a few weeks earlier. The only student who had written anything was Ikebe, who had been composing music for his own enjoyment since he was a child. The other students, although they had chosen to major in composition and had submitted compositions for the entrance exam, had not composed anything when they didn’t have to. Perhaps needless to say, it was Ikebe who went on to a productive career as a composer, and he is continuing to compose today at the age of 79.
Thank you for this video, Nahre! I began learning to play the piano when I was 6, and music is the reason I could push myself to be better in other fields as well, because it helped me become disciplined. Last year I took a break from music to focus on studies, and now I feel like I can't play anything well at all, and the fact that I am not as good as earlier is overwhelming. I am not looking to make a career in music, but I want to be as good as professional pianists, and now I just get stressed when I start playing. This and the other video of yours in which you gave tips to get back on track, have been very helpful!
Practice, kiddo. I played piano at Clint Eastwood's Mission Ranch for ten years when Covid shut us down. I was so depressed I spent two years not playing at all. It _hurts_ to hear what you have become. Just let it make you angry enough to take it out on the keyboard. I play jazz, so I just sat my Nord in front of the TV and every time I watched anything I'd start playing - tunes, scales, phrases - just PLAY. It'll come back. I'm gigging again and people applaud, so I guess it's OK...
I'm not Nahre, and I hope she responds to you. My instrument is not piano, but guitar. One thing I know for sure
is that stress is a killer in anything that involves a motor skill. So, I would say don't put too much pressure on
yourself, the less, the better. Btw, when I have taken breaks from playing, I do become rusty, but it's all still there.
It doesn't go away. I've always been able to come back and begin again to move forward. I think the chances you
can do the same are excellent. Good luck and remember it really is all about the music.
Hey, it's good that you're driven, but maybe also consider that you simply have less time to devote to your music than a professional musician? Wanting to play as good as a professional while also doing something else in your life might be setting yourself up for failure.
Also, what's your anchoring point for evaluating your progress? Because the way you could play when you were at the height of your game is not very realistic if you've had a hiatus, please be kind and patient with yourself and don't compare yourself to that, either. Skills usually come back quite fast, accept that you're at a certain point right now and compare your playing to how you did the day before.
Just my opinion, I wish you success with your progress!
Mansee, music also taught me discipline to learn anything I want. I’m 71, now, and stopped playing for a long time. I’ve restarted, and now find so much joy in what I play, even if I’m just learning or relearning a piece. To me, and it seems to most others here, the love of music is more important than one’s level, of course, unless you are a professional.
You might look at why your level is so important to you, that it makes you unhappy, and robs you of the joy in playing wonderful music. Maybe your expectations are too great. Life is short, believe me. Every day, I look for joy in my life, not ways to criticise myself. Good luck.
There needs to be a discussion about the financial aspects of majoring in music. If you are not wealthy enough to have your parents support you through college, masters, etc it's going to be a really difficult financial situation. Unless you are extremely sure you can get a job at the end of all of this, you do NOT want to take any loans. The jobs for CLASSICAL music specifically that pay a GOOD wage are so rare. I got a extremely good scholarship for college, but most people nowadays get at least a masters(even for just orchestra players), and it stressed me out to think about needing to get an amazing scholarship while needing to support my every day living expenses in college. And then to try to think and prepare for longterm goals...i mean, it was so stressful.
Adaptability....I learned survival doesn't go to the fittest, it goes to the most adaptable. Thanks for the vid Nahre.
When Maddie talked about all the setbacks and being able to comeback, I was reminded of the old boxing saying: Anyone can throw a punch. It's all about who can TAKE a punch. Keep going!
I used to think practicing 4 hours a day was mindboggling. But its not so bad when you work your way up to it. Besides, its fun to be good.
I can agree that it's fun to be good, but...I only have so much time and energy per day. I guess that just means it'll take me longer to achieve my goals, so long as I'm persistent.
Yes, it is incredibly fun to be good, and most people would love to be "good", and yet most people if they are completely honest don't have what it takes to get there. And note, not having what it takes to get there is not the same thing as not having the necessary skills, because I think we've all known a person who had the skills to be amazingly good at something, but not the drive.
@@crouchjump5787 may i ask how? im genuinely interested because im currently in pre-U and contemplating whether to get a music degree or some other degree that will give me financial stability, but that would mean progressing much slower in music. May I ask what your 9-5 is?
@@seeitall8921 I would say this - unless you're wickedly good in music, go for the money. Most people who go for the music end up doing other things for money anyways. Only a small sliver of the best of the best make consistent money in music, and that number will probably fall lower as the world continues to fall apart. If you do go to music school, go with the intention of being the best on your instrument in the entire school, and there will undoubtably be very talented people trying to be the same... Even if you don't go to music school, it is still possible to get very good on your own free time, but you'll need to remain consistent over the course of years.
Just so you know to keep practicing in perspective.. most of the serious Musicians in India, the world class folks like Ravi Shankar, Hariprasad Chaurasia, Shiv Kumar Sharma, Zakir Hussain and thousands of others regularly practiced 8 to 14 hours a day after they became teens.
I have a dilemma in my life, that I love music (piano) and writing equally. I can’t sacrifice either of the two, and in understanding that both require immense commitment and focus, I’ve decided to just be the best I can be and follow my own artistic path.
years ago you COULD do both. that's the strange thing. "standards" killed that - the need to compete just to be heard.
Wise words! I agree with you, and I'm sort of on the same path right now.
there are plenty of accomplished musicians who have done both (among many other things too). Leonard Bernstein for example conducted, composed, and performed on piano.
I had the same dilemma in 1989. Tried music first. Got into significant debt. Got into commercial writing. Paid off the debt. Had a complete change. Then came back to music, playing covers and in a couple of tribute bands. Agreed, both paths need a singular focus, unless you get lucky in some way (and where’s the fun in that? 😂).
Learning is easy peasy, I started my career as an opera singer somewhere around the age of 32-34, but the traveling is just harrrrddd. I always imagined it to be so romantic and adventure like, but in real life I've never had a good time going from one hotel to another. And worst of all: TURNS OUT I'M A CREATIVE PERSON THAT NEEDS TO BE CREATIVE TO FEEL GOOD! The classical circus is artistically satisfying, but creatively it's about as nourishing as a rice biscuit, which I figure is the reason I'm bad at dealing with the stress. I spent the lockdowns writing music and improvising ; it was great!
It must be hard to travel everywhere when you have 24 subscribers chasing you like the paparazzi.
@@yishihara55527 🤣
@@yishihara55527 That's not how the opera world works. Just the fact that you have a social media presence is already a problem for some agencies. They are so behind the times that some colleagues of mine where tropped for posting practice sessions in Instagram. I don't like agents (ok, no one does) so I don't have one, but some opera house administrators will deem you to not be serious or committed if you admit to any creative pursuits outside of singing classical music, and if you post any recordings of any performance or rehearsal that they paid for and therefore own, you will be threatened with legal action and possible be blacklisted, so I've had to unlist most of my videos
@@Herfinnur "I don't like agents (ok, no one does) so I don't have one"
@@Herfinnur Is this from an episode of the reality TV series Rationalizing in the Faroes?
For a soloist, they also need to have a mindset for business, marketing, and promotion, particularly before they have a manager or label to do those things for them - the trick being that nobody will be interested in helping them until they've already demonstrated that they don't need the help.
Even more so, they need to communicate well and cultivate relationships, even after they do have people helping them.
Someone could be one of the best on their instrument the world has ever seen (heard), but be so bad at the other elements that they have an uncertain, overlooked career with few concerts, despite their talents and hard work to be a fantastic musician. If they want to play in an orchestra, all they have to do is win the audition, but being a successful soloist is completely different, and involves so much more than just playing the instrument.
Unlike sports, there's so little money in classical music that musicians have to prove not just their talent for playing their instrument, but also their talent for attracting sizable audiences, before anyone would risk time or money on them. Until then, they have to be entrepreneurs running the business called "me, the classical soloist".
Very salient observations. As I read I thought of Yuja Wang and Khatia Buniatisavili, and how these women-developed their abilities-and then developed their public personas and then marketed both. Winning contests, getting recording contracts, using fashion and their physical attributes as part of appeal. Wang with over exposure and Buniatisavili with showing a sculpted back and creamy cleavage. I hope your personal insights have helped you develop the career you wanted.
For sure
> nobody will be interested in helping them until they've already demonstrated that they don't need the help.
The holy creed of all capitalistic enterprise. Wants beat needs every time.
💯
Nahre, thanks for explaining the life of an orchestral musician to people that may not realize the effort required to be a professional musician. I was a professional violinist for most of my life. I achieved that because I had a good brain, the drive , passion and discipline to achieve my goals. I started late, came from lower middle class, and essentially had to navigate everything on my own. I overcame many obstacles because I only wanted to be an orchestral musician.I Loved playing and the process of how to play in orchestra. Being retired now, It was all worth it for the self discovery and beauty of music
I too a late beginner... I started violin at the age of 14 now am 18....i want a concert violinist career... Can u please explain how to deal with this... 😇
@@ashkar9785 Me too I started at 13 and now it's been a year and I'm at grade 5 at the conservatory, my teacher said I could become a soloist but I need to keep working as hard as Im doing
man i consider myself fairly skilled in my area of work but i feel these high level musicians are from another world
I really appreciate this, Nahre. Great video, and topic. I think that Adaptability might be my super strength now that I think about it. As a freelancing artist across the fields, I have adapted to hundreds of unforeseen situations and projects over the years. Looking back it’s impossible to sum it all up in a coherent CV 😅
I have so much respect for professional musicians, clearly their love of music transcends their very health and sanity. I think that's why I know for certain I would never want to pursue music as a career -- I love music very much and would be horrified to be in any kind of position to hate it. Music is a release, a way to express myself, and I'll forever be happy to call myself an amateur; after all, the word comes from "one who loves"
I remember back in college talking with my advisor (O chem prof) about double majoring and she said, "well, you can do chemistry for a living and music for fun but it doesn't really work the other way around." I've ended going through a lot of twists and turns both "day job" and music, but turns out for me not having to depend on music for an income was the right choice for me. You can still take your musical craft seriously (almost a thousand gigs in the last decade +), but unless you really have that laser-focus drive and ability to do what ever it takes, music for a living is a tough row to hoe..
I never wanted to be a professional musician, but as someone who wants to be as best a cellist I can be this video was very helpful. Maybe I’ll be on their level when I’m 87 😭
Thank you!!
EXACTLY 😭 People thought I'm going to music for college since music is something I'm the best at. But little did they know IT STRESSES ME OUT SO MUCH 😭😭😭
Everyone can play the piano with plenty of practice. What differs an amateur and a professional is the tone and touch which takes so much focus to nail each note. I have the talent but not the mental capacity to be stressed out all the time. Decided to pursue animation instead lmaooo
@@hasamahikaru I feel you on that. Also, I think that going into animation is a really cool you’re doing, so, good luck with that 👍🏾
So honest and true! I really appreciate you having made this video which is something everyone who aspires to playing music professionally should see. But the other aspect is that there are many people who make a life in music, but because it is not cutting edge classical or jazz they do not have to make the same kinds of commitment to perfectionism. It would be great for you to do a more complete video that demonstrates how a love of music can translate into a more human lifestyle. I know people who studied diligently, but have decided not to travel and find a local place to perform while maybe recording and giving lessons and selling musical equipment or some combination of other music related activities.
this fits me perfectpy. I have not opted for a too eavy,performance based career because of the stress it has, because my chops are not that hihg..yet, and because music has many branches open. I also have discovered that I like switching activities frequently (obiously discipline is there) but I enjoy what I do and make just enough to live and save little by little
@Kenneth Garcia I think such people are a little embarrassing, and maybe more than a little troubling, to the ones who have set their sights on competitive excellence.
It's kind of sad as an adult learner knowing you can do nothing to catch up to someone who started practicing at 3. But that's the nature of the beast. I still strive to be the best I can during my remaining days.
An adult learner that nevertheless goes for it, is somehow more meritable than someone who started at 3 with all the advantages and all the possibilities open.
With that mentality, you are correct. However, an adult learner can learn 5x as fast if they are wise and they have the drive/discipline.
It is possible.
@@hazenclough4212 "with that mentality". What mentality? The mentality that someone who started training at 3 year old literally has 26 years of multi hour practices on me?
Also, source on that 5 time thing.. because I call BS. In fact it's easier for children to learn than it is for adults.
@@kidbrown2010 :(
Wes Montgomery. 20 something. Chuck Berry. Late 20s - 30 maybe? Off the top of my head. Must be hundreds more. I'm no know-it-all. Your response is kinda proving my point about mentality. Walked right into that one breh. No offense. You have big muscles. And you are handsome. Hugs XOXO 😘
As an 18 year old jazz musician on their way to berklee, this video speaks to me very much! I’m thankful for all of the saxophone lessons I’ve been taking, but i also know it’s very important to learn and acquire skills from work and things outside of music so that you can apply on your musical journey. I’m currently working a golf job as a sales pitcher, and it heavily relies on my persuasion and personal skills to make money. Learning how important it is to network, and just being able to adapt to anything is a must! Very glad to have come across this video👍
Music is a deep expression of life, and for some of us, it is so essential and rewarding that they take that sacred journey no matter what. May they become rich in life, richest in their soul, and they will have won everything that can ever be won -- no matter the outside world.
I love your comment!
💯
Sad reality of having so many talented people is that they end up making the level of competition so high that the barrier for entry is almost complete self sacrifice. Yeah, no thank you. I’ll play for me.
For music.
And the level keeps getting higher every year. I believe there are fewer full-time orchestral jobs in the United States than there are player positions in the NFL, and the quality of music graduates (nearly all of whom have master's degrees or above) is so high that often the best members of a section (in terms of talent and soloistic playing ability, not necessary experience) are "whoever joined most recently".
Even part-time hourly regional orchestra are super competitive to get into, as those super-talented people who didn't make the cut at the full-time orchestras are all scrabbling for whatever work they can get. Teaching positions at top music schools and conservatories? Good luck.
You, Nahre, exhibit these same qualities in your videos, your superb RUclipss and Patreon productions, your superlative book!
And of course, your music.
I love this type of content. You should do it again with some top jazz musicians
Lovely video Nahre. You are bringing so many important insights to light, especially for younger musicians. As someone who has been doing this for a long time, you illuminate the most important aspects of what it is to be a professional musician. cheers!
As a professional in my field, I can understand and appreciate the difficulties and sacrifices that one has to make to succeed in any field. Music is no different. But this video really shines a light on just how tough it is for any young student who wants this career path.
Fortunately, I am such a horrible music student that I will never have to face this choice.
Lovely video as always, Nahre. This time, I'm especially appreciative of the amount of talk on mental health and the realistic depiction of the workload of musicians who play under extreme circumstances. It's heartening to hear that. I feel actually quite relieved watching this video, because I know there are now so many people out there who struggle with this sort of thing. Thank you for helping me!
Luck plays an incredibly important role in everything, much more so that people give it credit for.
Yeah this truth is inconvenient to the ego.
Exactly
Wow! This video was awesome! Thank you! I am a retired music professor and I wish that every music student would watch this. I am going to pass it on to all my music teacher colleagues to share with their music students who want to pursue a career in performance. Bravo!
Madeleine Vaillancourt: "...the times that it DIDN'T work out, I was destroyed. I was crushed, I couldn't play, I couldn't bring my .. I couldn't get out of bed ... and so it took me a while to figure out that as important as it is to have this drive, this hardworking mentality ... it is important to get back up on your feet when it doesn't work..."
This is super important and is a skill that I did not possess early enough in the beginning of my (would be) music career. Unfortunately, my "event" was the terminus for me at that time, and I left music in all but the most casual ways. Something that now 38 years on, I regret. Regret is the worst, 'cause there really are no "do-overs."
My background is in session work and fairly high-level jazz and blues music and production. Looking back over the last 45 years I think I agree with the idea of adaptability as key, but the need to cultivate improvisational skills are a little bit different than training as a classical musician with fixed repertoire and ensemble work as a given. There is a lot of confusion around how to actually get work in jazz because the market has changed so much, especially after the pandemic. I am not familiar with the way it works in terms of orchestral residencies but being an individual who wants to play jazz or blues and make a living out of it is fairly complicated because it's a very oversaturated market, and it's filled with a lot of components of stylistic purism that can get in the way? Having a lot of technique and virtuosity is pretty common place now, and it has been since the advent of RUclips and access to a lot of information that really wasn't readily available when I started. There are also more intangible components as to what makes a jazz or Blues Musician interesting within the community of people who would be hiring. Technique is a very different environment in these fields because the requirements for being a good blues musician are not the same as being a good jazz musician and certainly not the same as that which is required to be a good classical orchestra musician. Working as a session musician is also completely different because it requires a level of adaptability and spontaneous problem-solving that's very unique under high stress levels. I think that the challenge that young Musicians face now is something that your friend alluded to which is, not having the drive to understand how to push themselves in a healthy way. Clear and honest self-assessment and the willingness to work really hard in order to get where they want to go is sometimes lacking in students that I speak with. With the advent of technology and a certain kind of impatience there is an expectation that things should happen more quickly than they actually usually do? I also think each person has their own individual path they have to process in order to get where they believe they want to go. There's a great Buddhist saying "that what you were seeking is what's causing you to seek.". I don't really know how to explain how I did what I did but I had a great life and a good career traveling the world and playing beautiful music with a lot of amazing people. At 61 years old I'm still working with amazing Musicians and I am grateful for the life that I have had and if you ask me I will tell you I have no idea how I did it. LOL
Thanks for posting all of your great videos! They are always inspiring and informative.
I love this video! Making it to the top of your career is like climbing Mount Everest. I have a Musical Mount Everest list of goals.
And enjoy the journey! I learned that it is best to compete with yourself and try to avoid comparing yourself to others. We all have different life circumstances, and bodies, and strengths and Weaknesses. I think what is of utmost importance too, is having a tea her that not only can help you with any musical or te h iCal difficulties, but one that cares about you as a human being, and nurture you. Not a teacher that simply wants you to be a machine. Your psyche and mental state is just as important as your physical health. I get involved with my students as human beings, without getting too personal, if they are not doing well. If they want to share more about themselves, that's up to them. You do have to maintain boundaries, while helping and nurturing them as musicians. But if they're suffering for any reason, they will never be able to sustain a career. That is why we're here--to help.
Pathetic
Most important is to start from an early age with good teachers and a family that have some classical knowledge. After that its up to how much passion you have.
This so easily goes for other talents that you want to make central. I've known a lot of people who are capable of good practice and good insight over short periods of time, but finding a way to go on through months, years and then decades when the inspiration dries up, or your reasons to love it seem to evaporate, or just when life presents lots of other easier options, has been personally speaking very difficult.
The feeling though, when you dig down and find a deeper well of love, or all the aspects of the craft you're yet to explore and to realise how fortunate you are to even have the opportunity.
A very good video as always Nahre Sol and good to point out how important drive and adaptability are.
고마워요!
Craft is not about love, though. Craft is how you pay for your love - ie, it is not about discovery or inspiration, it is about pure grind. And ideally, you never stop grindng, so you never stop paying.
I couldn't be a classical musician. classical is beautiful, but i can't think of music as competitive. takes the joy out of it.
Thank you for sharing Nahre! There is talent in hard work. Many naturally gifted students stop too early just from laziness.
You can believe in laziness or you can believe in the individual. You can't do both.
Music has no age boundaries
Somehow I felt that.
In the teenage years, you can start or learn instruments as well not only in the spectrum of younger age I don't believe that
I started playing guitar and piano at around 19 years of age I'm proud of that.
Effort builds talent
Keep in mind
Not Everyone is born a musical genius
Great video! Not everyone has the luxury to start early or even has the skill set, but that should not stop them from becoming the best. We live once and at the end should have no regret for not having given the best we can. Good luck!
Being prompt, knowing your role at the gig and being a great hang/musician/band member are qualities that will help a lot of musicians get more gigs.
Nahre, thank you for enabling us to experience vicariously the reality of these elite musicians and singers. And thank you to the performers who shared their inner world, their secret struggles with us. Alice, your looking glass channel is a unique wonderland.
I think these are two of the traits needed for a successful career in any crowded field. Thanks for showing the background or behind the scenes for music professionals. Cheers.
I'm sad, that I didn't find playing music so exciting when I was younger. Just got into playing the piano at 33 and I love learning scales and chords.
Never too late to achieve a satisfying level or contribute something meaningful to the art.
Your broadened background brings a unique perspective
I play electric guitar and have learnt classical pieces, I play very fast and intricate style that was new, since the 80’s I’ve spent thousands of hours on my own practicing and other musicians seem lazy and unfocussed. I totally get the classical mentality and I’d add the Yehudi Menuhin quote “Play every note like its the most important note you will ever play.”
I do think many of these points are specific to classical music. The barrier for entry for other genres varies a lot. However, I do think the level of commitment and adaptability are absolutely applicable to nearly all genres of music.
When I think of rock music, the barrier of entry is quite low (all you really need is a guitar and a microphone lol) but the level of commitment required to become not just a good rock musician but a great one runs fairly parallel to that of classical, in my opinion. Its interesting to me though, that you don't need to be the "best" to make great music in the rock world.
On the other hand, I think that is exactly the point of classical music. To me, the thesis of classical music is "how far can we push the absolute limit of technique and expression in music?" I do think you miss the point of the music if the musicians themselves aren't truly "world class" in every sense of the word. I suppose it is just a bit sobering to admit that it seems that the inaccessibility of classical music, from the perspective of a musician, is almost a part of its identity?
Thanks for the honest look at this world.
I played in New York Youth Symphony back in like 2008 with the violinist you interviewed/on the thumbnail. Glad she is doing so great for herself!!!
Good video Nahre, as expected. To sum up what it takes to become the best (I left out "musician" intentionally) is the same in every job, in every field. It almost always takes everything you (as in your physical body and your mental strength) can bring to the table. Unsurprisingly you musicians suffer from the same issues as everyone else who's dedicated enough to become the best in her/his field. Nonetheless, the insights into your and your fellow musicians world are fascinating. Almost retired mechanical engineer here after more than 30 years of more or less succesfully trying to become the best 🙂
They are not sacrifices if one has passion and love for whatever skill one chooses to follow.
I guess it's important to have a Hermoine like mindset where you want to come at top but not have a Hermoine like mindset where coming out at top is linked to your self esteem
The idea is correct, but when you've worked THAT hard to be at the top, it's extremely difficult to separate what you do from who you are. They become linked. And that's when it can harmful to your psyche if you're not careful.
Thank you for this great video. I’m travelling now to go to an audition for a full time orchestral job and everything said here is pure gold. Stress and mental health are so underrated in our job but so important to treat in our everyday life. Thank you ❤
That drive to be the best is really the part that the majority don't have. Being proficient and advanced in a domain is incredibly far from being top in the world. Not everyone has that drive to be number one. Thanks again for another succinct video.
I started out classical, piano, but a guitar got me laid... and the rest has been history.
I have a "gift" of sorts, playing American roots music. Lots of people told me to "get out there."
A partner showed me how to do business, and I had at it. I got a lot of work, and found out that the music business was more about traveling and marketing, than music. It beat me up after 10 years... I became a welder.
My travel expenses, vehicle upkeep, insurance, tolls, gas, all come out of my pay. I was always broke, even though I worked a lot.
Practice? My work was my practice... I gave it my all.... but playing bars and restaurants are a lot different than concert halls... fewer listen.
I performed solo, I carried all my amps, mic's, gear, set up, broke it down, carried it out, every job.
The worse was someone coming up to me and talking to me, wanting to have a conversation, while I was singing/playing. The next was being asked to turn down, because they wanted to talk.
I never looked at my music as competitive, but others would come up to me and compare my playing to others.
I could see how competitive Classical can be. There so much to technique, and the pieces are intimately known by the competition... then there's touch. No two musicians sound the same, even on the same instrument... this adds another layer to tone.
I wish I would've stuck with Classical piano... but I got really good at a specific genre. Practicing in those early days was a pleasurable obsession.... 6 to 12 hours per day, for a few years. I miss those times. Music was so exciting.
It's really interesting to hear about the lives of professional musicians and the dedication and hard work needed. I am happy to be an amateur and not to deal with the stress. Playing a musical instrument becomes a wonderful hobby when you don't have to worry about making money doing it.
I would say that this has an even broader scope than music and musicians. Most of the qualities and traits that are required to be a top musician are also required to be a top . For example, think of being a top athlete, a top engineer, a top doctor etc. Of course, this might not apply to all professions, but I do think reaching for the top requires a lot of common skills for many of them.
One of the trait is studying Nahre Sol's videos
😄 you’re the best!
@@NahreSol no you😊
Nahre, thank you for producing such a candid and insightful video. You are incredibly effective at getting to, and sharing the core questions and issues - especially in this video. Before I viewed it, I decided to make my own guesses at the 2 traits you would highlight. No question, your choices are exceptional, very well thought out and I appreciate your expanding my views with them. Both of my guesses were different than yours, and attempt to distill down to the simplest traits I have ever come with, on my own. After looking at the most recent 30 or so comments, I was fascinated that so few mentioned the motivational trait: Passion. I feel that a trait that is motivational can possibly be helpful, above and beyond traits which might be interpreted as strictly requirements. Passion was part of my self-assessment about considering a career as a classical musician - I realized that I had more passion than talent, and that was insufficient. Although I would have enjoyed a career as a classical musician much more than the non-musical career I chose, I would have had to make many of the sacrifices which you shared, that so many classical musicians must make. I appreciate classical musicians even more now. My second guess of a trait was: Grit. Grit relates to both commitment and adaptability very well, but in different ways. Thank you for expanding my views. Hopefully, my comment may expand others views as well.
Having a passion for making music, and loving the process is essential. And having parents that never put a "wet blanket" on your dreams is a huge plus. Being the "best" is a shallow motivation. Being the best YOU can be, as often as possible , is more fulfilling.
A secondary thought - One reason why starting out with very slow practice, is that the right brain (emotions) and the left brain (analytical), need to be coordinated and brought into sync with each other. Science and medicine have discovered that this slow careful coordination between both hands, actually help to build together synaptic nerve ends, which is the communicative wiring of the total brain. When practicing slowly, start out with small, even tiny, units - 1 or 2 measures; or a half phrase perhaps. Select the hard spot of the composition! For string players, start by using no slurs, just straight bowings. Then reverse your down up bowing to up down bowing, then start using all kinds of bowings as found perhaps in the Kreutzer Etude #2 as a guide. Consider then starting at the end of the composition and working backwards.
Mozart was once asked, and Beethoven and Brahms concurred, the mark of a genius or true artist is in "variations." - See Bach's Goldberg Variations for example! So should your practicing be too. Most of all - IN THE BEGINNING OF PRACTICING ON A WORK, NEVER SPEND MORE THAN 20 MINUTES ON A MEASURE OR TWO OR HALF PHRASE!!! Most human brains can not stay focused that long with constructive edifying long term comprehension. Stop practicing, take a brake, walk away and focus on something entirely different. When you practice, you are constructing a building. Each day you practice, you are learning and perfecting the skill of building easier and faster. When you reach a true performance level, you are then presenting to your listener a totally completed work of art in one instant.
Most will think, "how in the hell can I do all this in the time allotted?" To do anything less than this is a waste of your most precious and valuable treasure - your time and life! You are the surgeon and you are operating on the greatest being in your life - YOU! And, if you are a spiritually minded being and believe in eternal life, when you die, everything you do in life and love, practicing and learning, you get to take it with you for eternity.
The recent winner of the Van Cliburn Piano Competition, who is a very humble soul, starts his practice at 10am for two hours and then a two hour lunch. Then another two hours of practice. HOWEVER, even he takes a little break every 20 minutes!
If you are an institutional musician, to be "best" you must develop what the institution demands to a "best musician".
If you are free, you just have to develop your potential YOUR WAY (e.g. the great jazzmen never allowed external constraints to determine what and how they had to play).
Being a great musician has little to do with a professional position, It has to do with the music you play.
Right.. its so strange to me too.. I study jazz singing and mostly write my own songs. I mean: you certainly have pressure to improve your intonation, rhythm and technique, bust most of all you need to find your own language and tell a good goddamn story. People pay to feel something from your singing, not to hear that you are "better than anyone else". I mean more control is always good, as it gives more options for expressiveness, but its just as important that you even have something to express. There are so many techniqually great musicians that play boring music that one wants to hear.
She did mention that this video is about only a small fraction of musicians in the world and is not all encompassing
@@lionsmaine1238 This video is about being "the best" (they repeat it all the time).
Prior to watching this amazing video,i had shut down my studio set-up for the rest of the evening.
But now, i just turned back on everything and will practice some more!!
As with any passion in life, you need to learn to love the process and the results...and pushing yourself beyond your current limits is the way to go.
I read such an inspiring book by Laido Dittmar on really learning and where any real progress really happens, it changed my way of practicing and where to focus while doing it, and i have reached level of playing i just thought were out of reach for me.
Thank you Nahre for this incredible video!!!
The difference I see is about extrinsic and intrinsic motivations. And being a professional musician is one of the jobs that requires a lot of intrinsic motivation. And with few extrinsic motivations. Sometimes none until years and years later. Since people have a hard time with this concept, they'll just throw it at the innate talent trope.
This is my interpretation of what your pianist friend said: Students lacking the fire in their eyes.
(my second trait would be discipline. You have to know that this is your work. A lot of very hard work. And that's another concept that's sometimes lost "How is playing an instrument _work_ ?")
It's not even as simple as intrinsic motivation. Take technique: you need to embrace some highly regimented practice routines to get the flaws out of your technique. You need to not question the way they are taught - _make the extrinsic intrinsic_ - to successfully get thru the boredom/frustration that will inevitably ensue. You can't question the process until it shows results. It's the Goddamnedest thing, really.
The advice I always give is: if you're "thinking" about making a career as a musician, don't. It's not a choice for a successful musician.
I'm always inspired by these people who dedicate their lives so strongly to their music.
Agree!
But just remember that there are unknown musicians too who dedicate their lives to music.
@@andsalomoni I would argue that many unknown musicians often have the same level of ability, commitment, drive, and discipline, just without the external validation.
I was unmotivated that day during the piano lesson because of a bad experience at home. I asked my teacher how to play better even if I wasn’t in the mood. She told me that I needed to be resilient and adapt to be a professional musician. It was the moment I knew music wasn’t a career for me. I still love music and play piano for my family even if I am not a professional musician. Professional musicians are admirable. I’m thankful for their works and sacrifices.
Personally I think talent is overrated and telling an artist (especially as we see so often on those talent shows on TV) "ohh you're sooo talented" is acutally kinda disrespectful. To my experience the people on the top of their fields are more often than not not the ones that had the most talent in the beginning, but the ones with a good amount of talent that learned to overcome and persevere early on.
Lady, You are the top musician for me and I pray you never lack the attention you desserve.
The one thing that goes unsaid in all of this is that you must be able to function well on very little sleep. That is often genetic. It's not just "wow, what a hectic schedule." It's literally about being a short-sleeper.
Also, I have to admit, I find videos like this disheartening and depressing when they always go back to "start at three or you're a failure." This is like championship sports, not art. I'm happy to watch athletes do amazing things I haven't a prayer of doing because it's all about the insanity of what they're capable of, but art isn't about that -- or not only that.
I often think of high-performance classical music and wonder how it can possibly reconcile telling audiences "this art form speaks to you!" and in the next breath saying "you are separated from this art by a yard-thick plexiglass wall." Sorry, I know this comment is a buzzkill. 😕
There is no evidence that being a short-sleeper is necessary for being a high-performance classical music. But by all means, continue to invent reasons for why you or others can't do it.
@@davidlewis5737 Any touring musician will tell you that being able to function on little sleep is important.
And I'm not inventing reasons for anything -- I'm defining "it" -- what exactly is it that this music is, art or extreme sport? And how can an audience relate to something this extreme?
@@jcortese3300 Many jobs require working with little sleep (at times), making it an unremarkable trait. The military for example? If you are suggesting the average performing classical musicians has some short-sleep genetic variation, that is a baseless claim.
@@davidlewis5737 I think it's an interesting thing to look into, and I'm prepared to be proven wrong.
To my other -- more important -- point: does the status of this kind of music as almost an extreme sport interfere with its role as an art form?
Actually, you are correct. There have been studies done on this in the business world. The consistent high performers do have a gene that makes it so their bodies need less sleep to perform at the same level as others.
I found it very interesting to say the least.
Great topic! I really enjoyed the video. That's the harsh truth. Talent is only the base, hard work and dedication are the fuel.
Kinda disappointed that privilege is not talked about at all.
I think having rich parents that can afford to give you a musical education from a really young age is way more important than the two traits you mentioned. You're even more lucky if they are musicians too.
I've studied classical music myself for years and I've seen a really strong correlation between making it as a musician and having at least one parent who is a musician.
I'm not saying that being the child of a musician is a free ticket to fame and skill, but it definitely helps.
Being able to cope with mental stress can also be attributed to genetics for a great part. Of course you can work on it, but if you are particularly susceptible to mental stress there's only so much you can do about it.
From what i have seen the mental aspect is one of the most important trait a musician should have plenty of.
“Having rich parents” is not a trait. Privilege/gate keeping in the classical music world is a whole different video.
I think it depends where you live. There are lots of good piano teachers who don't charge a huge amount of money. You could spend a fortune on lessons but if the student isn't dedicated, or isn't interested enough, paying for lessons is not going to play the instrument for them
@@freesiajasmine534 But nobody is saying having access to expensive private tuition is an automatic path to professional musicianship. The point is given two dedicated students, the one with better education access has far better odds of success in the hyper-competitive field. No, it's not a guarantee, but it is absolutely a filter.
And regardless of where you live, you're still looking at around $5k/year for private tuition. That's a lot of any working family.
Excellent analysis.
Good information. However, it does not explain where they get their money to live their lives. In my experience, it is rare that anyone that has this much time to spend on their talent does not already have that taken care of. And that to me is what creates the illusion. The rest of us have to divide our time between what we feel we were meant to do and a job that sustains us. Thus, the talent gap grows between those that have money and connections and those that don't.
What you said in the end about these personality traits not belonging to just musicians specifically resonates with me a lot. Like you said, the skill is a bare basics. Sadly, not everyone who loves music gets to be trained at 3 years old but that skill is a must. I feel like I have that drive to be good but life gets in the way. As a trained biologist, I do feel like I am in a position where these traits help me achieve. But the only way I think I can become a great musician and still maintain a good income is to sacrifice my social life to practice after work.
I am a jazz singer (still studying) and especially a singer songwriter. I can totally understand that you need to give a lot to make your playing/singing/songwriting the best you can. But somehow I dont understand this extreme competion. I want to ideally write music that evokes an image, that makes people feel like they are in a completely different world for a moment, just like some music does for me. Of course a big toolbox of techniques and musical language and good musical imagination are neccesary to craft a good song. But I dont think I neccessarily need to be the best at audiation, or coordination, or intonation or whatever (although it certainly wouldnt harm). Many of the people I love often dont have the greatest intonation or technique in the world, but they tell a good story, which is more important imo.
Jazz and rock/pop are whole different worlds from classical in those regards!
I think classic is Just alot more competetiv and the elitsm is insane.
@@jonasm.8128 It sort of has to be. Being "impressive" is only a small, superficial part of it. Having the skills to be impressive, however, is the foundation needed to be able to be sublime, which is the real point. (This is what heavy-metal fans never understand about classical; they never get past the "impress people by playing fast" part, which is sort of grade-school level achievement in the classical world.)
@@jonasm.8128 I guess the difference is in what you provide. I compared someone who would write the song, the lyrics and has a lot of freedom in the sounds he chooses to use (in jazz and pop I am allowed to use a ton of vocal effects and sounds while classical singer have a very narrow ideal), to someone who offers his abilities on his instrument to play someone elses composition under the guidance of someone (i dont know the english term). Its probably more comparable to studio musician or a hired background singer than an original artist. You need flawless technique, intonation and rhythm, because otherwise they would just hire someone else. Its a difference if you paint the whole picture or just offer your abilities on your instrument.
You don’t understand it because you’re not a classical musician
Hello from Ireland.. amazing to have this lady in the RIAM!
As a composer, i remember my graduation concert where someone in the audience told me "what a talent !" : i almost took it as an insult... Of course it was not and i politely answer "thank you very much", but, i would like to add "no it's not talent ! you didn't saw me in the studio, alone for hours, crying on my own f****g scores ! fighting against the blank page ! and the tons of paper in the garbage can !". I would like people truly appreciate the WORK, "talent" do not exist, and if it does it's just a personal way to express ourselves, so everyone has talent.
Thank you for this video.
Really agree with the points you have made. Talent is the baseline; without it, you might as well end the pain early:) But a desire to work hard, and be resilient is what separates the talented from the exceptional. I would also add that hard work is important, but also working smart. I logged so many thousand hours of practice during my 15 years as an aspiring professional musician, but in retrospect I realize that most of those hours were a waste - because I was just 'putting in the time' and expecting some magic to happen.
It's interesting when I translate this to the career of acting. I have studied acting for many years, and over that time have known many an actor/actress who had an incredible drive to succeed. But what I have found to be equally as important as drive, if not more so, is having an ease and confidence about your career. The actors who had the most drive of anyone I knew, were usually not the most successful ones. Rather, it was those who were somehow able to shed the anxiety and worry about their future and just have fun and relax into the work, who ended up with quite a bit of success in the business. (I myself am still trying to get to that level of confidence and ease, but several acquaintances from my classes have done very, very well from embodying those qualities.)
A profession can be defined roughly as follows:
1. A lot of it is bullshit.
2. You must accept, engage, and fulfill it all the same.
There's a wonderful book by Anders Ericsson called "Peak" from memory. He was one of the world's leading authorities on expertise and human performance, working with the world's leading musicians, athletes, scholars etc. Really changed my understanding of achievement and what is required to develop expertise, at all levels. Has made a difference to my kids, both musicians, athletes and good little scholars - and loving it. Thank you for this vid - Dave
What insights from the book stick out to you?
Ericsson pretended that talent and genetics didn’t matter, for ideological reasons. Turns out they clearly do. He was probably right about training amount and types of training (deliberate practice).
@@100c0c It's some time since I read Peak, but in it he spells out the key ingredients that go into achieving excellence. Such things as: good mentoring, feedback loops, focussed repetition etc., all seemingly obvious but he puts it in clear terms and my kids and I have applied them in many pursuits - music, academics, sports etc., and they are powerful and effective.
I also subscribe to the notion as explained by Ericsson from many decades of specific research, that we aren't born with some kind of "innate talent" for something, rather an orientation towards that something and possibly the right set of circumstances to help us pursue it with vigour. It would be a bummer if you were born in 1100 with a talent for playing the piano (pianos weren't in existence then). 🙂
He gave great examples of how the top musicians, athletes, artists, academics etc., have applied these principles to get to where they did and although, in our case, we're not striving to reach the pinnacle of achievement in anything, we are certainly able to make the most of the time we put into our pursuits and I'm seeing the results with both kids excelling in sports, music and at two of Australia's top selective schools - with no tutoring and having a relatively relaxed childhood, unlike their peers who don't know these principles.
So, you could say that Peak has made a very positive impact on us and that's why I recommend it. Cheers - Dave
@@peterfireflylund Hmmm - that's quite a statement. I wonder what basis you have to make such a claim. Does it really turn out that "talent and genetics" are crucial? Have you dedicated your life to study these things scientifically? No doubt genetics play some part in certain athletic pursuits but how about "talent"? Ericsson put forth a very sound set of reasons, none of which are "ideological".
Amazing video. I agree with all you said but its also the believe in your abilities has to next level. She talked about when things dont go well, but it is very easy to think they didnt go well because you are just not at that level. I found when i was at music school it was the ones that had that belief who ended up eventually winning the competitions and auditions, and people like me just faded away! :)
That sounds like an unhealthy amount of stress, especially on the long run. It's really unfair to make life that hard for musicians! They create so much beauty for the world and deserve better work conditions.
I agree with you! Although I often wonder what the interviews would be like if they featured professional musicians from the US versus from Europe....
Our society makes life that hard for pretty much all artists, and it's only gotten worse as we devalue the importance of art, and the skill it takes to create it.
@NelsonStJames I disagree, society has nothing to do with it. It is the duality of nature.
@@ItsOnlyFate777 I sort of disagree with you.
@@NelsonStJames Well said, Nelson!
Thank you so much for bringing this rare and precious content to the world. We don't hear enough from the top professional talk about how to become and keep being the top, this is very inspiring.
I think, Nahre, that most people do not know that being a professional musician is basically being an entrepreneur in a sole proprietorship.
I do not think even professional musicians realise this.
Basically, you have to learn the skills to become a musician first. After which, you become a salesman of yourself to a target audience. This is the summation of being a professional musician. And the two qualities Nahre mentioned are exactly what is needed as an entrepreneur trying to build a one man company. If I would add a third quality, it would be the ability to sell your commodity (which is your musicianship) the right way to the right audience. Lots of musicians focus so hard on the skill and forget the sale of the skill.
And that was also my experience.
I am a lifelong musician, have played with world class classical musicians in UCLA orchestra, band, and jazz ensemble, I have played organ in a church, dixieland, hip hop, classic rock, orignials in rock star wannabe bands, did my 10,000 hours on tuba and organ (and piano, synth, etc). I played at the top level of local pop music, with [people who were able to "quit the day job". I studied with good teachers, including a tuba master class with Tommy Johnson, the guy who played the ominous two not theme in "Jaws", numerous movies and tv shows, world famous tuba player.
The answer to most "or" questions is "some of both". Like pro athletes, there are some who were naturals and worked less hard, and some who had average talent that worked their bottoms off. All of them have a combination of natural talent and hard work. Genetics plays a role, some people are pitch deaf and no amount of work will make them great. Others have a knack for it and progress fast with less work. My hands barely stretch an octave, so my high school organ teacher told me I just couldn't play pro classical. There is taste and there is chops. You can improve chops with practice, although you may hit the limit of your physical capabilities. Not sure you can improve taste. Some people have a natural feel for what sounds good, some don't.
It's complicated, even personality and behavior is a factor. Also, do you want to - some people like performing, some don't. That comes through independent of skills. In pop, There are beloved successful musicians of moderate skills, and there are people with incredible chops that just don't connect with an audience. Each of us brings our own combination of natural and earned and there is no universal answer.
Wow how true
And then the perpetual question is: Is it worth it?
All musicians have my deepest respect!
If it's worth it to them, then it's worth it ... period. That's my belief, anyway.
@@tdesq.2463 Yes! For those that made it. For those aspiring to become top level musicians it is an insanely difficult question I think.
Yes, all musicians don t necesseraly want to spend their lives rehearsing répertoire works, there are more interesting things to do in life than running after recognition..
@@MarnixMohrmannPiano If one is so passionate about their art that s/he can't not live and breath it, then that's what s/he is going to do. It's a force of Nature. And it's a wonder to witness ... and I'd never consider impeding one so focused and determined to realize his/her vision.
Great note. Thx!
~TD
@@tropicjam7343 Sounds cliche, but I agree with the "To each, their own" approach. Not my place to tell others what they do or don't want, or what is or is not interesting to them. If they want to dedicate themselves to a craft that makes our world more beautiful, then they have my full support.
~TD, Boston