Would Fan Cars Work in Formula 1?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2022
- 🔧 Thanks to Scarbs for joining us once again! Go follow him on Twitter for F1 Tech news! 👉 / scarbstech
Could you make Formula 1 racing better with the addition of Active Aerodynamics? We’re talking fan cars, active suspension, active wings - the lot.
Because we have a sneaking suspicion that it could help cars run closer together, enable more overtaking and generally improve racing.
So how would you do it? Could Formula 1 ever do it? Lets get into it.
Now, its all well and good saying add all the toys (active aero, active suspension, fans, 3000 horsepower ect), and yes you could create something that is the peak of automotive technology. But it would be impossible to drive (as it likely would exceed what a human could process) and you DEFINITELY couldn’t race it.
So we’re going to look at this with the idea to improve racing, and if we can make the cars a bit faster and show of automotive tech along the way - then great.
So currently, aside for DRS, Formula 1 uses only passive aerodynamics. Passive does seem like a funny word for something so insanely complex - but the aero package (wing angles, brake cooling, rideheight and setup) are all locked in before the race.
And the wings do deflect with load, but the aerodynamics aren’t ‘actively’ changing.
This setup has positives. Its much simpler, makes the teams lock-in a setup and means the slipstream is pretty strong. As the wings create a lot of drag on the straight.
But there is still the dirty air problem, its better now, but still there.
These are all things that would change if Formula 1 were to implement active aero.
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Active Suspension is highly applicable to Road Cars so it benefits all the manufacturers
J damper too!
That's like opening the pandora box, manufacturers would program that suspension for every turn
It just benefits merc the most ATM because they never stopped developing DAS
Imagine the racing where instead of DRS, there were sensors before turny bits of the track where drivers could turn on a fan system giving them more grip/speed around turns, thus promoting more overtaking in interesting bits of the track rather than just braking zones after long straights. Anyone?
@@Pokez0rd not necessarily, it could be regulated many different ways
Now that I´ve seen that McMurtry Fan car at Goodwood and seeing how small and manouverable it was I think fan cars would be great for F1. Just imagine what Monaco would look like with small nimble fan cars
speirling is what formula E should be. But they are so afraid to let formula E use power and they limit it so much
At the detriment of just about every other F1 circuit where it's not optimal. Monaco is an outlier kept in pocket for the sake of tradition. If you want to watch narrow hillclimb cars do hillclimbs, THERE'S AN ENTIRE SPORT FOR THAT. Give them the attention they deserve.
With F1 waffling on the future of Monaco, just run a full Speirling class at Monaco as the Premier event???
The fan has no correlation to the car being small whatsoever. Modern f1 cars are huge due to safety only
@@lordjaraxxus663 exactly
Active suspension needs to come back. Even affordable cars have them nowadays.
Production autos have it so add it to Formula One for manufacturer's to develop them further.
No road car ever had true active suspension. They have only active dampers which is a low hanging fruit that can be fitted relatively inexpensively with minimal design alterations, as it doesn’t use any complex actuators.
Active suspension as was in f1 in the 90s uses actuators to directly control the suspension movement. That gives you the ability to actively control spring rate, damping, ride height and have an inerter effect (which gives a force proportional to suspension acceleration).
Road car suspension controls only the damping, so calling it active suspension is a bit of a stretch.
active aero too
@@ASJC27 check out Mercedes e-active body control
@@keisuketakahasi4584 I think active aero has already been planned for 2026 cars
With active suspension there will be a lot more concepts that are viable, such as the merc.
Imagine the racing where instead of DRS, there were sensors before turny bits of the track where drivers could turn on a fan system giving them more grip/speed around turns, thus promoting more overtaking in interesting bits of the track rather than just braking zones after long straights. Anyone?
@@DanFelix honesty sounds cool but I think it’s much more complex, which can have huge cost implications and risk coming off gimmicky.
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active suspension is dull.
@@yrma_fletcher8953 how so?
Adrien Newey already designed a hypothetical F1 fan car in the Red Bull X2010 that appeared in the Gran Turismo and Assetto Corsa Games/Sims. A mockup was shown off at Goodwood.
This car was a absolutely beast in GT5 and GT6, it was literally glued to the ground thanks to the active aero and active suspension!
Absolutely active suspension
Agreed
It would make driving easier
@@Sam-kq6be ok and the problem with that is what exactly? Just because it’s hard doesn’t it good. The fastest drivers will always get the most out of it.
@@rexthewolf3149 I don't think Sam mentioned it being a problem.
You are correct anyway, closer and safer racing is always the main goal. How the FIA will regulate active suspension is what I'm wondering.
@@rexthewolf3149 it is a balancing act. You have make the cars challenging while at the same time making it fast and safe
I think everyone watching Goodwood last week had exactly the same thought. However there are a few reasons fan cars won't be a great idea. The original fan car was criticised by other drivers because of its habit of vacuuming up dust and debris and blasting it out the back into the cars behind. Safety is another problem. If they are unsettled and break the undertray seal, they can catastrophically lose downforce, leading to potentially bad accidents. This was a significant criticism of the days of ground effects and skirts - and probably a factor in Giles Villeneuve's fatal crash.
When it comes to some level of active aero and active suspension, F1 is starting to look ridiculous. These are no longer the pinnacle of automotive technology. You can buy a large number of high end sports cars that are more advanced when it comes to suspension and aero. Active aero was banned on safety grounds when cars had (again) catastrophic failures of downforce and bad accidents. But once DRS was introduced this argument ceases to hold. Active suspension was originally banned because it was (correctly) deemed to be an active aero device. The whole lot is banned because they worry that it is too costly to develop and thus some teams can outspend others to gain an advantage. Guess what? We have a cost cap. So the cost of development argument is also no longer valid. Spec parts and some sensible rules on control laws would easily make for a vastly more useful set of rules. They really need to get away from this ever more prescriptive phone book of rules, with its insane legality boxes and to the millimetre regulations on everything.
@Francis Vaughan well said! 100% agree about some rule changes being needed for active aero and other technologies.
18-20 cars going around vacuuming the track debris wont be around that long
Gordon Murray said that the story of following drivers being blasted by the fan was nonsense. Dreamed up by other teams to get the car banned. I seem to remember Mario Andretti admitting that was the case.
The exhaust from a fan doesn't have to exit out the back of the car. The Murray fan did because that's where the rules hole forced it to be. The exhaust can be mandated anywhere they decide to put it.
By the same token a modern fan doesn't need to be as big and obvious as the old Murray. If I'm not mistaken the Speirling uses compressor style fans (think a centrifugal supercharger). Scarbs' claim of how much power they would consume sounds way high to me.
The cost argument doesnt fully hold I think. For some active aero components the actual car manufacturers (e.g. mercedes, McLaren, ferrari) can do research and claim the research is for their production cars. Teams like Rb, Alpha Tauri and Williams will have to do research on full f1 budget. From my understanding this happened before and will most likely happen again.
I was just thinking about this earlier today after watching that record-breaking Goodwood run. It would make downforce more predictable and easier to follow, but I think a sudden loss of downforce vacuum could be incredibly dangerous. Especially with all the bumpy street tracks we’ve got now.
Sudden loss of downforce is an issue with the new rules package in Nascar actually. When the cars get too loose, the underbody stops producing downforce so they lose grip.
Both of you know that is a problem with any downforce system? goodwood is bumpy as fuck and look at the speirling go faster than an f1 there.
I was thinking the same, hitting the curb can cause a loss of down force on the current setup, the McMurtry has two fans to prevent a sudden loss of downforce through a fan failure.
With the fan you wouldnt need to run the car so low, as the fan is enough to accelerate the air rather than tight venturi tunnels with no fan. The point here is to accelerate the air under the car. This can be done by narrowing the area through which a given amount of air has to pass or by sucking it backwards
It's not though. The driver even said there were areas where the tarmac wouldn't allow suction to maintain consistent and he had to be cautious and aware of the situation the entire run. Even the BT48B had a pressure gauge the drivers had to constantly monitor to know if they lost the seal or not.
Has anyone suggested just using a tuned mass damper in the rear to counter-act the proposing? If they know the frequency of the bouncing, that seems like a low-cost solution to fixing this problem for everyone.
indy cars use them, seem like a great solution.
everything you can possibly think of has been done by an f1 team and subsequently banned
See that's a great idea, which is why it will never be present in F1
Renault used it in back in their dominant Alonso era, and....of course it was banned!
Mega brain moment.
Remember when the original plan for 2020 involved spec active suspension to go along with the lower profile tires? yeah - that should have never been dropped.
Even with the Spierling at goodwood, you could already see the insane problem of fan cars. That thing was throwing dust and rocks miles behind, which is fine for time runs but way too dangerous for racing.
Active suspension and aero might be interesting, but there would have to be some level of spec parts to prevent the costs from spiralling imo.
You mean dust and leaves were coming out of the back?
@@v4skunk739 yeah, it was the same reason why the Brabham BT46B, the og fan car, was banned. But maybe if the fia makes the teams put some sort of grate behind the fan to prevent the debris from flying about? Heck you could even put some sort of quick release so the grill can be changed during pit stops
yeah they couldn't bring in fans before enclosing the cockpit
It was only dust, no rocks. The mcMurtry Speirling has an air filter that needs to be periodically changed to make it safer to race.
It was only dust. Besides, the racing line would be completely clear after a handful of race laps at most.
Great video yall! I would really love to see the FIA embrace more innovative solutions when it comes to seeking ways to encourage closer racing.
Thank you for all the efforts running this amazing channel! 👏🏼🙏🏽
I want to see those little fan cars have their own racing series.
They'd be absolutely insane xD
This content is freaking amazing by the way, really love it!
Active suspension is already used in MotoGP. The rear end squats as launch as well as corner exit to enduce a wheelie to reduce frictional and roational drag from the front wheel not being on the ground till 160mph
Active suspension, AWD and CVT. Maximise mechanical grip and you lessen the need for aero (active or not) which reduces drag.
The other benefit is that you could downsize the engine even more, maybe using a V4 engine instead of the V6 with a beefier hybrid component adding more horsepower. You would lose some of the engine sound, though.
with v10s
@@abdurrahmanhashmi1081 and turbos!
@@alaeriia01 yessir
A simple rule for active suspension could be a delceared ride high and mantain during all the track and all the race with sensors to keep it under control, from both teams and fia
Simple solution, compressed air and Li-Ion batteries for the fan. Spin it up in corners. Also fans cooling for the brakes. Maybe some Liquid Ox or Nitro.
The problem with reducing drag is that it would almost completely remove slipstream. Its already a terrible situation this year which people seem to not talk about with drs being the only way to pass as the slipstream has been heavily reduced
Perhaps that’s where the more powerful hybrid system they’re planning on introducing in 2026 could help.
@@Tommmmmmmmmmmm other way round. Reducing drag even more would cut down on slipstream even more
I love the active duct aero idea. I like the idea of cutting down on the dangerous conditions caused by running a ride height low enough to cause contact between the car and the track surface, as well as the possibility of reining in the ol' pogo action (although maybe a little less sidewall is the ticket, there). For the scraping, perhaps some sort of closed-loop active bumpstops, or travel limitation of some kind, to allow as much travel as possible without scraping. I don't know, just thinking out loud. I don't want to see another iteration of the famous active suspension Williams car, though - I think most fans would agree that the biggest line in the sand separates driver control and pre-race adjustment on the agreeable side, from computer control and positionally optimizing suspension and aero setup while driving on the far side.
I wonder if the drivers' necks can handle much more grip, though, in the case of a fan-asssisted system.
The biggest problem of the original Gordon Murray fan car was that it threw all debris/dust/stone (everything) to the car behind. It was dirty air literally...
Active suspension is the key in my mind. It would ad so much more performance. I think that it is the next step because we got the venturi tunnels and ground effect this year and it really has made it more interesting. Now combine that with well thought out active suspension. Ground effect was a technology once banned and so is active suspension. So after those next in line is active aero
With active suspension they would be able to essentially seal the floor at any speed thus increasing downforce massively.
I have just watched a video where the driver of the McMurtry, Max Chilton, shows us around the car. A very interesting video and the stats are incredible. Two ton of downforce when motionless! 1.4 seconds to 60mph and a very low drag coefficient because they don't need the body to add downforce. Max tells us that the McMurtry's downforce is constant regardless of speed, so while it gets off the line like a drag car, it looses out to an F1 car at high speed because an F1 car continues to increase downforce the faster it goes, so they added the rear wing for Goodwood. The most outrageous thing he said is the the McMurtry is actually going to be road legal. He could have literally driven the car home from Goodwood. I just hope that future builds won't all go to crazy rich Arabs. I'd like to see Jay Leno get one so we can get more videos about the car. As regards the run at Goodwood, what struck me the most was how fast the car accelerated from a standstill. Amazing!
Great suggestions! Just one thing - all those ideas add weight and that's the one thing drivers are complaining about. They are far worse than the cars we had in the 90s and 2000s plus one of their biggest advantage has been the hybrid system which seems to have hidden all those flaws. Take away the hybrid and aero and you'll have a car that's probably slower than 2000s era but be the quickest through the corners because of the ground effects. I think Scott might be on to something here. :)
Given the huge weight of these cars, active suspension would be a sensible addition.
It would also improve racing I think.
Active suspension is one of the coolest things I've seen on cars, I hope they bring that in for one of these years
A Red Bull X2010 with less power would probably be the best bet.
Also as annoying the noise, blown diffusers.
You can lower the over-body downforce to increase the top speeds and reduce turbulence whilst getting free downforce from the underside of the car.
It would also be another efficient use of the exhaust gases, as well as powering the turbo, power some of the downforce.
Another benefit of fans would be once F1 someday has to go full electric, the cars would at least still sound like something
Add speakers that blast Eurobeat
Sound like the world's biggest vacuum cleaners, which I'm not sure is an improvement
Active aero and suspension may also make it easier for a driver to optimize the effects of their driving style, which may bring more fair if not even playing field.
Oh man, I thought the title was implying a fan sponsored/funded F1 car. I got properly excited by that idea!
If we added any of these upgrades I think Pirelli itself would become the limiting factor. So upgrading the tires themselves would be a a needed boost to performance.
A couple of counterpoints I would like to make:
1. If a fancar were to crash and the fan breaks free while spinning, the blades become a flying buzzsaw that could injure or even kill another driver, the marshals, or spectators.
2. I'm not really against active suspension itself, but I am against race engineers pre-programming an entire racetrack into the ECU of the car. It's basically a cheat code that takes away the role of driver instinct and "feel". Adrian Newey wrote in his book that he basically told Nigel Mansell to trust the FW14B to go through a corner at higher speed even if he felt all 4 tires slipping and losing traction. Instead, I would rather have FRIC and the tuned mass damper be legal again, since they can't be electronically micromanaged to dampen every bump in the track.
3. I consider DRS to be a form of active aero controlled by the driver, and it's already really overpowered on a straight. My opinion on DRS is a device that gives more *opportunities* to overtake, *not* something that *does the overtake for you* . Instead, I would change it into a free-use tool with these exceptions:
- The race leader is not allowed to use DRS.
- If a car is less than half a second behind another car, both cars must close their DRS. This gives the car in front a chance to defend rather than get blown by because of artificially increased top speed. The half a second gap can be increased or decreased to give a fair chance for both cars.
Active Suspension seems like one of the most futuristic things a car can have, but with the current F1 focus on budget control I don't think it would ever happen.
(laughs in 1955 Citroen DS)
Shoutout to Jacob O'Neal! My goodness, those animations really help and are probably a lot of work!
Of course we know the answer - fan cars have already run in F1 and were banned after winning their debut GP. But the solution suggested at around the 5 minute mark is more akin to that Subaru estate car that ran at Goodwood, sprouting airbrakes at every corner. I'd love to see that in F1. (And the dirty air diagram would seem to suggest that the answer is to go back to 1973 Tyrells or 60s Lotus cars where the dirty air seems far less!)
Not sure about fans, but active suspension and aero is a great idea. F1 should be the pinnacle of technology, and it already isn't due to safety concerns. Anything we can do to make it more high tech is a win in my book unless it makes racing worse.
Fan cars do create issues for following cars. Both the Chaparral 2J and Brabham BT46B tended to pick up any debris on the track and throw it out through the fan at high speed. That was a whole new definition of "dirty air."
F1 needs the tech to come back for one major reason: F1 also wants works teams to stay involved, and the board rooms have a hard time justifying involvement in F1 past advertising, and advertising is non-existent if you're a backmarker team, and not great if you're in the midfield. If Toyota / Honda could both argue that the technology they'd pioneer in F1 would then hit their Type R's / GR cars, and then trickle down into their consumer cars in 5-10 years and possibly give them a real advantage in tech (like active suspension, 4 wheel steering, etc. did when they hit F1 first then eventually hit production cars to varying levels of success), then the investment in F1 could be defended more. And no works team wants to join F1 and stick around to be a backmarker (see Toyota, Ford (as Jaguar), and Honda previous works entries that did not last).
Where F1 is currently at with engine regulations and passive aero setups, there is not major room for improvement any longer, especially when the next engine regs are likely discontinuing the MGU-H as a concession to VW due to the high cost of R&D and the limited application on production cars, so there isn't a lot there for the manufacturers to gain any more without rolling back the gizmo ban on some level.
Big yes to active aero. Active geometry of suspension, not only for ride hight control but also angles between wheel and road. Cover those wheels and driver it is like elephant in the room 😂
4:30 he is talking about turning F1 into Cyber Formula. wich is fine by me XD
The beauty of a fan car is not necessarily in just making the cars go faster. In my view the big advantage is being able to shrink the cars overall size. If you don't need those big honking aero surfaces to create downforce the cars can get smaller and "racier".
I also don't think the fans take anywhere as much power to drive as Scarbs' is saying. The Speirling uses a centrifugal compressor to vacuate the chambers not a big fan like the Murray cars did. Another advantage would be the ability to exhaust that air in any direction.
I rather like the way the cars are now, aside from the porpoising! Now, active suspension would eliminate that now, wouldn't it!
Would be cool to see a F1 car folding it's wings during acceleration like a supersonic plane does while breaking the sound barrier. Then they become open angain during breaking.
I have a feeling Merc has the solution to all their problems, active suspension. That is why they are lobbying so hard this season to hopefully get a change for next season.
Red bull and GT did an idea of a fan car. Granted it ignored any rules and regs but that would be a starting point.
Would be cool if they maintained a standard wave of changes for the entire track too, if considered too dangerous. Every single team can only go much higher or lower of the ground at x mms
I remember some interview where the engineer was asked "What would you be able to create if all restrictions were removed." He laughed and stated flat out that they would create a car that would kill the driver. The forces would exceed what the human body can handle and continue to function and the reaction times would be far faster than what a human could produce.
The technology has already outstripped what a meat servo can handle, so the real question is, "How do we design the rules and regs so that the car can be pushed to HUMAN limits and still give exciting racing."
The car should be driveable by human in the vehicle. That's a pretty simple rule.
One day in the near future we will probably see unmanned/remote driven race cars on a real track going insane speeds. Like on an Oval perhaps. Would be neat to see racing missiles, haha.
@@JonB83 there are micro car raze races. They program little tiny rc cars with full traction control. It’s amazingly fast.
I guess its time to create an android capable of handling upto 100 G.
@@aadixum what would the purpose of the Android be? The car would be able to drive itself. It would be a battle of algorithms.
@@float32 They would know from beginning how to manage tyres optimally. This would mean that all the AI drivers would be very consistent from start to finish, and overtakes would be an anomaly. Not really what I'd like to see.
Is DRS technically "active" aero? Or no? EDIT: Scarbs answered it later in the vid. Cheers!
That McMurtry run was absolutely bonkers btw.
How about the mass damper? For this porpoising/bouncing issue I mean it would add even more weight but it would also absorb a huge amount of shock. Maybe under the driver's seat.
I think active suspension is not too crazy to use on an open wheel highly aero-dependent vehicle. There is a lot to say about why, but the most important reasons I assert are related to the asthetic, the cost, the usefulness of development to use in road cars, and the obvious safety benefits. I'd love to see development of active suspension because maybe it can become cheaper and consumer cars to help everyone that deals with bad roads. Hopefully it does come back
@Driver61 can you do a video explaining the difference between the ground effects IndyCar uses vs F1 and why IndyCars do not porpoise, and can follow much closer & pass even on high speed European type tracks like Elk Hart lake, Mid Ohio (this weekend BTW) or when they raced at COTA.
Also mayby touch on how/why all the critical setup for IndyCar is in the dampers vs aero, and how F1 dampers are different.
Active suspension and fan will be one day for sure
I agree that movable ducts and intakes should be allowed.
Active suspension and aero, if not only for improving performance and maybe racing, also make the cars more modern and lines them up with road cars.
That's good for all the manufacturers and even for the sport in itself imo. We all always say F1 is the pinacle of motorsports, but for most people, seeing cars like the Senna or 918 that have all this tech, and then F1 not having them can be a bit weird.
I feel that MotoGP does a better job at "looking" like the pinacle of its category by having all this cutting edge tech on the bikes. While F1 doesn't really do that imo
The thing with a fan on the back of the car or a active front wing is that a simple fender bender becomes a D.N.F. Now if you destroy a front wing you can at least just bolt on a new one.
That illustration at 01:22
I think it would be interesting if they had a catch-up system like Mario kart to the cars at the back of the field get a performance boost to keep thinks close.
In all seriousness the way to make better racing it to make the cars smaller
Wow someone has think about the idea of F1 changes its forms in different situation （straight or corners) and made an anime called "Future GPX Cyber Formula" in the 90s...The cars in this anime can change between “Aero mode”(mode for high speed straight), "Track mode"（mode for corners）and a "Boost mode"...That's really funny
Throw away DRS and introduce FAN but that turns on only when car gets within 1 sec. and stays constantly on (as long as it's within 1 sec... maybe bit more if needed) - that has own power supply, so that it doesn't drain main engine power
Is it possible to do a video comparing the number of overtakes and spacing between cars at the end of the race between last year cars and the new ones ?
Even comparing how much overtakes took place because of artificial DRS help…
I really appreciate that the new cost cap regulation allows ideas like these to be floated without fearing that the smaller teams will be totally left behind. One wonders how the regulations would look today if they had been introduced earlier.
Let the engineers solve the problem. Set a box, tire limits and fuel capacity, and some safety standards. Then let them at it.
possibly also some cost caps.
@Mihails Akulenkovs would also see cars that are incompatible with racing, considering the dirty air the past the produced with strict limitations.
you know the new regs have failed when the channels are still talking about closer racing and improving f1 cars
Active aero via driver control, love. Active suspension not so much. Active suspension fundamentally changes everything in my eyes. For the sake of feeling a car, I think suspension should remain as simple as it is now. And whilst were on the topic lol, I think engines should go back to v8s too. They were the sweet spot and we can definitely make them efficient with the right fuels. Most importantly, the cars need to be smaller and lighter. This is the perfect race car in my eyes. Basically, we need to go back to the 2009 Brawn GP lol. We need to go back and modernise that a bit. A tad bit more weight and size is okay but it needs to have that agile movability to it. These are the best of the best in terms of race cars imo.
If Formula E looked more like the mcmurty with radicle engineering, yeah more people would watch it. Instead of a mario kart experience.
FE is dead. If it wasn't on free tv no one would watch it.
We need more videos please if possible and thank you
The DRS could also be always available, or you are less than yourPlacex1s behind the leader, that would help the race closing onto the leader 🤷♂️
I'm game for active suspension and active aero/bodywork, not so such fan car.
Too much "dirty air" with the fan. Tuned mass damper might be nice too.
Thanks Scabs
I believe a fully mechanical, not necessarily passive, but just not eletronic, aero/ other innovative devices would be the best way to go. I think that Drs is solving a problem that doesn't exist, and also creating other problems. I'm maybe not the best person to talk about the Drs existence, but just give your opinion here too, anyway, I think that solving a problem caused by a solution to a non problem with other thing is just gonna be a pile of unnecessary problems, meaning, the way the teams adjust the suspension can cause problems, maybe some will in some way have a more risky setup in favor of performance, kinda what merc did with the right height, and then a lot of other regulations will be needed, and you end up not letting teams adjust things as they want, kinda defeating it's own existence . If you eliminate all of this unnecessary problems teams will still evolve and find ways to, for example, get around the porposing. If you think about the situation in a kinda "philosophical" way, it kinda doesn't make any sense, it's like inventing a cup that it's completely closed so it doesn't spill, but then you can't drink , so you invent an eletronic lid to drink out of when you want, but then that lid will have problems, and you will make a simple thing very complex without any need. Hope it wasn't very confusing
I think allowing flexible wings would be good
Active suspension sounds too assistive. Didnt FIA remove hydraulic suspensions because the cars were too easy to drive?
Edit: Also DRS is not available all the time during a race and for a good reason. I mean last month people were debating whether DRS should be removed!
F1 cars need to be shorter and narrower than they are currently. There's no debate there. It's all about how everything can be packaged into a smaller space. I think F1 needs to bring back the suspension allowances it had from last season to start with so that car setup and porpoising isn't such a nightmare.
I think active suspension will give F1 a ton. It won’t be as massive of a change on rules, performance and cost as a fan, it links to normal cars well, and most notably it can have a huge mitigating effect on porpoising.
Solving porpoising thru suspension would enable manufacturers a lot more freedoms for engineering within the rules. I think this could create a diversity of cars while all being within a very great set of design parameters for racing. Active suspension is not necessary an exotic technology, Cadillac first implemented magnetic ride control in 2002, and they are now on the 4th generation in the CTS range. Its proven and effective, and it belongs in the top tier of circuit racing.
Also some manufacturers already use magnetic ride or other variants on their road cars. Ferrari uses MagnaRide licensed from Cadillac, Mercedes has E-Active, Renault could find a crossover, Aston Martin put active suspension in the Valkyrie, and so on…
you should make a video talking about the Red Bull X2010/X2011/X2014, it's basically what would happen if you made an unlimited F1 car
Why wouldn't you want the fastest category in the world, to have the best tech to go the fastest they can.
He explained the reason very clearly at the start of the video.
@@procatprocat9647 you can regulate it, most of this tech is in road cars, you're telling me the best 20 drivers in the world can't Handle a road car?
@@stopsallmelb the tech is in most road cars. But even those cars aren’t as fast as f1 cars.
@@rexthewolf3149 of course they could have standardised units and subsystems. Handling a road car is a misnomer.
You said you wanted the cars to be as fast as possible. This woukd only work if the cars were automated and robotised. Otherwise deaths would be constant. I guess you could have some kind of anticollisin system, an ejector seat, or just have nothing at all to hit (including other cars).
Brain damage would occur on every corner due to the accelerations. Blood vessels would pop in every organ.
Having the ability to handle a road car? 😭
@@procatprocat9647 I never said anything about wanting cars to be as fast as possible. I said that tech is In road cars, but those cars aren’t designed to be as fast as road cars. Because it would impossible be for a human to drive.
None of these solve any issues without creating much bigger ones and/or adding a ton of costs.
- The fan would mean a lot of added weight, a complete redesign of every car and starting from scratch with development, while dealing with an ever tightening cost cap. The fan also creates even more dirty air, making it harder to follow, as it leaves an even more turbulent wake.
- The active aero is way too complex and expensive, which is why this has never been done or was banned, outside of DRS. It is also a driver aid, as the active aero does part of the driving, in terms of adjusting for loss of grip, etc. It works on planes because they aren't built to the last gram, have redundancy built in and are much, much larger.
- The active suspension is the same as the active aero: it's a driver aid, which takes control over the body roll, pitch, yaw and more. Now, it is down to the driver to deal with this, which takes skill, talent and experience. MotoGP uses it and many are against it, also because it can fail. This happened in the last race, making the bike unrideable.
An actual solution would be to make the cars smaller, as that both drops the weight, reduces the wake/dirty air and makes it much easier to pass. They're driving in landyachts compared to most racing series. Before the cost cap, some innovation were banned as the other teams said they could copy it, but it would be insanely expensive, giving the rich teams a major advantage, like active suspension and the tuned mass dampers in the Renault.
You could bring in f duct's but activating by a button rather than driver's body parts
Active suspension would be the best option. Its the most applicable and would entice other manufacturers in.
Lol.. Thought this was another meme video about fan-made cars.. boy was I wrong haha :D
Maybe active mass dampers to help with the porpoising?
BRING BACK V10'S WITH FULLY SYNTHETIC FUELS
Its definitely too big of an ask for F1 to adopt fan-assisted aero and the like. I'd rather just see a Speirling racing series. Appropriate tracks can be selected to minimise risk of loss of suction.
I personally don't think the risk of loss of suction is inherently high, and that the risk has always been played up for nefarious reasons (other teams just didn't like losing).
If contact occurs between cars on a corner, the risk would be minimal as long as the impact point is (slightly) above the car's center of mass. The bodywork can be designed appropriately to achieve this.
Track selection is by far the most important aspect of creating a successful fan car racing series. Golden rules = no curbs, no steep banking, smooth tarmac at least 2 car widths over the track limits to allow for hard racing. It'll be a task to find the right tracks, but there surely must be a dozen or so around the world that could be adopted with minimal modification. Worst comes to worst, paint some on an air field lol.
If Mcmurtry can run even a single successful racing event with their cars, they could well take the motorsport scene by storm. If they're faster than F1 cars, people WILL pay attention.
does anybody know where to get the original picture at 1:22 ?
I would love it as a background on my pc.
Everything active on F1 cars or adding a Fan in the back would probably make F1 even more dangerous because there will be a higher chance that something will break and that’s not a good thing 👌🏼
Good ideas are often not that costly, but the sport needs to be able to let the engineers work their magic and come up with innovations that likely will also benefit a wide range is applications, even passenger cars. If there were simple rules on size, weight, fuel economy, safety and of course cost it would allow some I think really creative and interesting things to come to the surface.
Screw fans, active aero etc. What we want is v8 & 10’s running on synthetic fuels
They would work well and even reduce the porpoising. F1's porpoising is a huge engineering blunder that either they ignored or didn't see in computer simulations.
I am completely against active aero and fan but active suspensions maybe.....but still i would like to stick with current passive aero and suspension and just find a way to get a smaller car.
Might be a stupid question but would the mcmurtry fan car be faster than an f1 car around an f1 track?
I legit thought this video was going to be about letting a fan-designed car race lol. Like some crypto-based voting mechanism to build the car, pick the driver, choose strategy, etc. Like the fan controlled football league but for an F1 team.
So, bringing back the Brabham BT-46 from 1978 for fan cars and the Chaparral 2C from 1966 for active aero.
Let's be honest, F1 used to be about pushing technology. Now we're debating about how to best limit the cars.
I came here because I thought the video was about F1 fan (spectator) driven cars, stayed for cool science
at the least we need active aero right now
On the contrary, Scarbs/ Mr. Mansell, I feel that adopting an active Aero system could turn out to be a bottomless pit. Why? with the given rate of tech advancement in F1, who knows what kind of shape shifting could take place. I mean, by what Scarbs pointed out, if a car can change aero to suit different sections of the track, then there will be all sorts of ridiculous shape shifting. Who's to say they wont start looking like the Transformers?
biggest problem with a fan car is that it picks up all the debris and throws it out the back. Very dangerous for any following car as they found out in 1978 with the brabham BT46
I'd be interested to see that mcmurty go round Monaco, see what time it posts
Bring in synthetic fuels, and lose everything that has to do with hybrid power. Give every team a set number of hydraulic actuators of standard specification and allow them to do whatever they want with them, with maybe just a few safety restrictions such as having them so that drivers cannot have the power to change them from corner to corner.
Guaranteed drivers would use it strategically at times they don't need it, but at times the car behind needs clean air.
Much like James bond putting a smoke screen to stop the chasing car.