Kudos to Dave for having the courage to submit a mix - that he obviously spent a lot of energy on - to be publicly critiqued. I'm a relative newb to all of this. The idea of having anyone hear my mixes at this point is terrifying. On a side note: I loved the song.
Thanks man. I was away from my rig for a few months... my Mom got diagnosed with cancer and passed away. So when I got back home, I needed to get some emotions out, so I dedicated this little jam for her. It's called, Out of the Darkness. I will upload my mix that Jordan roasted on my channel soon.
@@davejohnsonmusicsorry for your loss, friend. Lost my mom a few years ago - she was my best friend and greatest champion. Still hurts…:( And like others have stated: appreciate you sharing your mix. Cool song! And yeah we’ve ALL over-complicated shit in this production/mix game so: join the club!
Wow. I thought I was guilty of over-complication with my 2 EQs, mb compression, reverb/delay and a drum bus until you opened the project. These videos are very helpful. Thanks to those brave enough to submit themselves to criticism
This was a lesson I learnt myself.I kept wondering why my mixes sounded bad until I totally stripped a song down I had been mixing for weeks and listened to it and thought OMG it sounds pretty good with nothing on it.Thats when I started to actually listen to the music and ask myself...ok,whats wrong and how do I make it right with minimum effort.Stopping and listening to the music and then taking a short break and coming back to listen again is something I have found to work quite well also.
Jordan is honestly the most helpful mixing teacher on RUclips in my opinion. These videos are always consistent, and are also my go-to if I am wondering about something in this field.
Thanks Jordan for going over my mix. Your version sounds great man. Definitely a lot of things to think about. However... I must address a few things. Just because there's 10 plugins on my Master doesn't mean I use them all. I have a few different clippers, saturators, compressors and limiters. Depending on the track, I choose the flavor that works best. You can see in the comment below the track which plugins are actually used on the Master for this session. To add to that, some plugins on tracks are automated to come in only at specific times in the mix. Most tracks will already have two plugin slots taken for subtle tape saturation and console emulation… just a tiny bit of color and not seriously sculpting the track. I don’t have HEAT in my Pro Tools version, so I have to add saturation to tracks/busses individually. Same thing on the 2-Bus… a lot of that stuff is merely for subtle color, but I think it makes a difference honestly. It looks like a lot, but it’s really not that complicated if you actually see what’s being used, when and how much. I do have a lot of aux tracks, but if you see the levels, they are being blended in very subtly. A lot of my session workflow is based off of Andrew Schep’s bus and parallel concepts. I just like to try different things out and see what works for me, but I guess I’ve got a long way to go still. I will have to rethink my approach for upcoming sessions. Ok, I’m going to have a drink now.
Your mix to me didn't sound too bad, but when Jordan A/B it with his mix I could notice especially the snare was really squashed. That was the track mostly affected by this overprocessing.
@@alessandrosummerI did wind up bringing the ratio up a bit towards the end because I thought the snare was poking out too much. Metal isn't really my thing, but most of the stuff I reference out there have really squashed snares, so I thought maybe mine needed to be clamped down a bit more.
@@davejohnsonmusicah ok, so I guess it was the fault of the crappy snares that are out today (even in metal you hear these horrible overcompressed sounds). Maybe try lowering the output of the track, I think it would give you a better sound.
Ur mix isn't bad but the point here is a more simplified way to achieve a great result without having to go through all the processes u went though also he mentioned that if it sounded good with ur process its simply ok to maintain ur workflow but his point is clear enough and valid, besides i believe the purpose of the video has been established n clearly not targeted at criticizing your mix. with love brother
I think you just proved Jordan’s point mate. You have multiple plugins that aren’t engaged just in case. If it needs saturation then just grab the plug-in you need for the job. You have multiple mix busses mixed in subtly for analogue flavour, just put a tape emulator on the mix bus and dial it in until you have what you’re looking for. Respect for putting yourself out there to be grilled, you’re taking a hit for many many people who are going to benefit from seeing this.
I'm a guitar player primarily but I have been doing digital audio recording for a couple of decades now. I'm also an information technology specialist in my day job. I just want to give the observation that one reason for all of the overcomplication and excess these days is because people can. Simple as that. There was a time when you were so limited in your processing and memory and I/O and latency that you were physically limited by the hardware and software and over the years those restrictions have fallen away. The amazing power of today's computers and the optimization of the software and operating systems (not to mention the improvements in interfaces) is making people lazy and overly reliant on dumping more paint onto the canvas instead of making sure that the paint that they're using is doing the job right. Use less paint and focus on the quality of the audio. Graham Cochrane has been preaching this for years: Limit your options. God bless you Graham!
The most skill that people are lacking is Vision. Before reaching for any tool, a mixer needs to have a clear vision where sonically he wants to get the track. I think it is the hardest part because very often people move knobs hoping it will accidently make a track sound better and repeat the process.
That is a hard achievement, because when you start out you don't know from what track you can reach what results. If you have the "right" snappy snare sound baked into your head then you will hear what is missing and you work towards that goal.
That is true. Its like composing. People think its harder whilst composing or arranging. Thinking its the inspiratoon that will move you but thats not the case. You pick it up and say "im doing this" and just do it
Well if things are recorded the way they are supposed to be instead of lame safe flabby weak OR ridiculously over processed shite where their gear is more the star than the performance I.e naming your tracks based on the rack compressor it’s using lol 😅 In my experience being a mixer is just way too over glorified and that’s the difference of why things worked back in the 60’s 70’s 80’s and 90’s. You made that shit happen in the studio and mixing was an after thought of balance. I want to hear the song pretty much as soon as it brought up on the faders. It’s not hard if the tracking engineer knows what they are doing.
I feel that a big part of over complicated mixes is inaccurate monitoring. More and more plugins are added to compensate for bad processing or mix decisions from inaccurate monitoring. If you trust your room an Monitors and know the tools it’s quite easy to put things into shape.
There's a lot of wisdom displayed here. I have to agree, and confess I've been guilty of just tons of overdoing it to try to follow the greats. Anybody else try to Brauerize your mixes? What a large 'pit of despair' that turned out to be! In the end, regardless of the different pieces of advice I had gleened from RUclips that I tried and dismissed or tried and kept...it all really came down to simplifying everything for me. My mixes got 100 times better, and I found a work flow and a way to build mixes that works for me across multiple projects and genres. Having said that, I still have to admit to far too much buss processing in an attempt to hit certain volume levels, as well as provide a more analog sound... So I still have some 'growing' to do it would seem! The internet and RUclips are a great resource for knowledge and information, and unfortunately misinformation too! If you are smart, you will listen to the folks who are making verified 'records' and weed out the ones giving parrotted advice. As such, I follow Jordan. Maybe you should too?
This is super helpful. I think especially as a new person it's easy to feel like you have to try all the "tips and tricks" on every mix. So many times I've found everything sounds better with less
The same is true in the world of color grading - very easy to overcomplicate a grade with lots of secondaries/nodes - better to reset and make sweeping initial moves on the primaries - painting with a broad brush to get 90% of the way there.
@@darkcharmrecords Not all mastering engineers are the same, I've learned it's better to not leave much really for the mastering engineer. Only if you trust yours, and know that he'll do the remaining 10%, because some mastering engineers will 'respect' your mix so much that the master will sound exactly the same as your mix, only louder
I love projects that look overcomplicated, but don't sound it. They have lots of lovely textures and tiny sounds that add to the groove or the atmosphere. I'm all for simplicity, but I love twiddly additions that you'd definitely feel if they were removed, even if they add only a slight touch. My music is full of very low in volume, background noises.
They both sound great. Original has more of a 90s vibe going on. Yes, Jordan’s has more punch and poke, and certainly sounds a couple of decades newer, but the original would certainly get me winding my car windows down too. Great song!!
Kind words, thank you. My friends always tell me my stuff sounds too 90's. I mean that was probably my most influential time as a guitarist, so it's no surprise I could never really shake those vibes.
This channel is all about what’s wrong from a mix engineers point of view. To him there is no other way than his way. To most people, the material is king. I’m most people.
The only thing is you have to think from the perspective of a music consumer who listens to so many amazing songs regularly. While I don't think the original mix is bad at all, having that extra edge can make your mix stand out and compete with the millions of others putting out amazing music as well.
@@wynton765 I think the average music consumer ain't checking for what the mix sounds like, for engineers it makes a difference yes don't mean to be argumentive just see it different it's not that big of a deal
I'm totally with you on overcomplicated mixes. But otoh lots of people do well with so-called "top down" approaches. The key is to primarily use one approach OR the other. If 'top down' processing ends up meaning you don't need to do much on the individual tracks then that's an equally valid way to work. It's when, as in your example, people have 15 plug ins on every track AND a load of "top down" processing that it veers into overkill.
Yeah, like for example i use a tube saturation plugin on the guitar bus. Way more simple that way than adding saturation plugin on each individual guitar track.
I don't know if you could really use the word "better" when describing your mix. I think a more accurate word would be "different."" Your mix has the guitars quite brittle and thinner sounding than the original mix. Although that may be what your ears need, it clouded the top end that I could hear in the original mix. Your 2.5K~4K area got a little busy. I totally do agree about the overuse of plug-ins. Although I don't know the extent of overuse as I don't see what is being used in the original project, From my experience sometimes less is more. My experience deals more in a stereo picture/imade and felt this mix could use better left right specific placement, rather than just everything Panned hard left and right.
Great video man! And thanks to bro for putting his mix up to be deconstructedso that we can all learn. I literally ran into this last night. I was working on some horrible bgvs and realized i was making them worse by trying to get them to sound a way i wanted in my head. And i dialed back all my processing, made a couple of moves and said, you know what, that sounds better than whatever the hell i was doing earlier lol!
The new mix sounds much thinner and elements in the midrange disappeared and it didn’t sound like a rock mix. But he is totally right, that setup could be a lot more simple.
the best mixing tip is: every mix is different and take every advice with a sack of salt, some songs need little to no processing, others need a damn lot for various reasons (electronic music, ambient music and etc), just dont stick to formulas and advices from everyone
A really quick but effective tip for those who produce and mix their own music: 1- If you are scrolling through your synths and it doesn't sound great without any mix processing, it probably won't with it. Change the amplification or filter curves/envelopes if needed, but the sound should fit your music right after you play with it; 2- If the sound kinda fits your music, but you are not sure, try just to change the volume of it. Make it louder or quieter and see what it can do. (THIS IS POWERFULL) 3- After you tried to change the volume and had no success, you could try to change the FXs in the Synth plugin, like some EQ, comp, distortion, reverb, delays, chorus, etc., use as much as u can inside of the synth plugin before adding more processing after it. It will save a lot of cpu power and will get you a "more ready"/polished sound. These tips works with ALL type of sounds. Want more highs in that snare? Crank that volume up! Want more LOW-END? Make the kick and bass louder. Make it simple as he told in the video (most of the times, this works when the sound source is already amazing).
Год назад+1
Phenomenal video and a real eye-opener, great song by the way!
Much appreciation to Dave for submitting that mix.. which honestly sounded dang great already! Yes, it sounded better after it was fixed… but to be sure it did sound good going in. But this video did give me a good idea of what to look for in my end products now… which wouldn’t have been so obvious using a different track that wasn’t already good (if that makes sense)
I appreciate that man. I did put a lot of time and thought into what I came up with. You really don't know where you stand until you get pro ears on it and a fresh perspective. I actually sent my mix to my friend who has a well-known recording studio in LA and he thought it sounded great, so now I'm confused.
@@davejohnsonmusic Yeah man… your mix sounded incredible right from the jump and I was jamming to it when he was playing it initially. So you absolutely SHOULD be proud of that track… it’s fire 🔥 man, seriously. What I did notice upon him fixing the mix, was slightly wider stereo field, the guitars were spread out a bit more, the overall mix was tweaked with a slightly more midrange scoop boosting a bit more of the high end / low end (assuming my ears heard it correctly) and just slightly… I mean SLIGHTLY tighter feel overall. Almost detailing a new Porsche before it leaves the car lot… it’s already an awesome car, the detailing just pulls out a few more highlights and makes it sparkle just a little bit more. It is a great track… hope my lame car detailing analogy worked there lol
@@-KingOfKhaosYou know, I actually spread the stereo field slightly on my 2-Bus and mix into that and I actually push my instruments out even a touch more on the Chorus with automation. So I'm not sure exactly why I'm not getting as much spread as Jordan. I did notice the midrange as I was referencing. I tried pulling out some, but then I felt like things weren't cutting through as nicely. Thanks for your input and yes, your analogy is right on. Jordan's just has that Pro sound and mine is more like a demo.
@@davejohnsonmusic Nah… your original mix was well above a demo level… in my opinion anyway. You did have really decent stereo spread as well… so I don’t know what he did to just push it ever so slightly (but noticeably) over the top to add that extra spread. I’m not sure if he did some side channel EQ methods or what… I thought he was going to reveal the secret sauce … if not to us, then at least to you lol! Don’t kick yourself brother… that was a solid mix going in 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I think of all the great sounding albums made before plugins and DAWS, when high-end studios had very limited processing tools, today's GarageBand has way more options. It took me a long time to figure out how much can be done with an EQ, panning, volume, and a couple of good compressors. But most important is tracking I spend a lot of time setting up the session and getting it going in. There are way too many plugins and a lot of the plugins are like musical instruments you need to learn how to play them. I am so much happier since the great plugin purge I conducted in 2022
This 100%. So often I just jot a guitartrack down, think it’s ok-ish and will probably better as soon as I throw some plugin fairy dust on it. Some mixes are better than others. If I just tweak 30 minutes more with placement, dialing effects better, my mixes would sound so much better
Definitely guilty of this. I think it comes from trying to re-invent the wheel to gain competitive edge. The thinking for me, before, went "if i combine Michael Brauer's mix techniques, AND manny marroqins, AND Chris Lorde Alge, AND some hip hop mix engineers, AND Serban Ghenea .... i can find my own totally unique flavor" and it leads to overpurchasing plugins, overusing them, and not streamlining at any point of the process. Great video Jordan. Hope you make tons of these, literally with the same message but different mixes from viewers. Hammer it home please.
I started out back in the 90’s with very little analog gear and made the most of what I had. The world of plug-ins has gotten ridiculously good over the last 10+ yrs. Found myself using a ton of stuff making these micro moves which in some instances isn’t such a bad thing but not a way of life either. Anymore depending on how the tracks are recorded I might use a couple outboard pieces and maybe a plug-in or 2 but going back to the making more out of less has been really the best mentality. Act like you’re limited and you’ll get more out of using less. CLA makes aggressive moves. It works.
I love that you made this video. I teach Audio Engineering/Recording at a media tech school. I tell and show my students about not over doing it. Just bus compression and that's it will get the job done and have you sounding pro. I've seen some mixes where they throw everything at it hahaha. I will show them this video to prove my point. I enjoy your channel, man. Keep this up!!
I totally understand the value of what you are saying. We are all guilty of this. That's why if i have a shitload of plugins or processing on one track, usually what I'll do is just bounce in place and shut off all power to the original track to ensure zero processing is taking place. That allows the computer to save all that processing power for something else and forces you to commit. I also hide the originals so they aren't clogging up the session visually. I'll even do that with aux tracks. Sometimes I'll print the effects to a waveform as well. Commit people. Bounce in place. You can always go back the original track and adjust it and bounce in place again if you have to.
Great video. One rule that has served me very well over the past 3 decades of recording and mixing is try to limit yourself to 2 or 3 steps of processing (hardware or software) for both the recording and mixing phases. If you cannot get the sound desired after using 3 or 4 pieces of gear or plugins, you have a source problem. Continuing to add processing from that point can seriously start to degrade or skew the source sound. From phase issues to weird problems hard to diagnose, over-processing your tracks is an easy way to get stuck in the mud. When in doubt, start over with processing, or better yet, record a better source if possible. The amount of sessions I get with 50+ plugins on them is ever increasing it seems.
I was talking to a friend today about this. As amateur musicians/composers and the waste of time with hundreds of plugins and shit... just for a demo for ourselves. I use one compressor, one or two EQs and the instrument emulator or amp emulator. A reverb and delay on vocals (just in case), a de-esser. And that's it. You were talking about why old producers were so good with the stuff that they made and it was because they have a couple of EQ, a couple of compressors and some other stuff. I just made a folder with those plugins and I forgot about the others.
Great video!! I just watched it and couldn't agree more. I started out in the 70s, with a 4 track DoCorder, then Teac 80-8, to 24 tracks of Adat and finally, more years ago than I care to think about Cubase SX and now Cubase Pro 13. When I set up a project for my own music my template will put an eq and comp on each channel and I will take out the ones I don't need. I put a comp on my busses which are always KS, Toms, Cymbals, Room, Percussion, Acoustic Gtr, Electric Gtr, Keys, Backing Vox and Lead Vox. I want to use as few plug-ins as I can get away with. The most important thing you said in this video was to capture the source correctly. If you do this simple, yet very hard thing, you will need way less post processing. Thanks for a great video and I hope people will listen and hear what it is you are saying...especially guitarist...yes, I am one. I prefer to get a great tone out of my Mesa Cab .22 and only add effects if needed.
Great new mix. My story, full time musician in house band. Due to uh, misappropriation of my available money due to substance abuse most of the time I played with borrowed guitar and amp. Never knowing what I was going to have sometimes night to night I had to learn quickly how to get my best tone from what was available. I'm far beyond those days now but what I learned has been invaluable. Those knobs are on everything for a reason. Later Never having been a "pedal guy " my tone would be hard driven guitar that sounded excellent by itself with singing sustain, but wouldn't cut thru the mix. Keep it simple.
Thanks for your advice man! I produce electronic dance music and you probably would be scared of my project at first glance because I have a lot of plugins on every channel. These plugins are actually doing almost nothing but colouring the sound of each channel a bit. Emulating Tape, Transformer, Console and running through Pultec and 1176 on each channel simply gives every track some spark and life (warmth) where it’s sounding dead if bypassed everything. I calibrated all plugins to be at nearly unity gain, so it’s really just about „electrifying“ each channel without doing significant sound shaping or compression. My mix busses also have multiple compressors which only kiss the needle with 1-2 db compression. This is all part of my default template, so I don’t setup it up each time I work on a project, it’s just there as if you would switch on your analoge studio. For any sound shaping and detail mixing, I‘m doing it in the individual channel most of the time like you recommend. My busses are usually just acting as a light glue (and coloring of course). I finished 4 songs with this kind of setup and must say if I just switch off the colorizing plugins my tracks sound dead. I even published a short video „What if my studio setup was a plugin?“ where I add those plugin layers one by one and you can hear the difference from „dry“ to mastered (by a mastering engineer) in four steps. The basic concept behind it is based on Michael Brauers mixing approach, but I adjusted it to my personal needs and taste. I think what stands out is that everyone should find a personal way that works effectively and saves time while increasing quality.
I use an ssl comp, 2x L2 on my mix bus. Thats it. (One L2 is set as a soft clipper) I run 6 different buses for low end but don’t use all for any instruments Each bus is just a compressor and eq for color saturation depending on which instrument it can improve I run 4 buses for high end for color an ine for stereo width with ozone relay Finally i might create a couple reverb buses for color and space and maybe a delay or echo bus In the end each instrument only gets processed by two to four plug in prior to entering mix bus I agree with almost everything, said in this video, except for the statement to get rid of everything on your mix bus, except for the compressor I do believe running an L2 as a soft clipper on your mix bus is a good thing Also, I would add to any bus you have a compressor reverb or delay on. You should also have an EQ Warren Huert is a God of mixers, and he constantly reinforces people telling them to put issues on their reverbs. Put an EQ on your delay put an EQ on your compressor buses. Too many people forget to EQ buses according to him 🤙
@HardoreMusicStudio Thank you for this great insight! I will remove EQs from the mix bus and use it only with the instrument channels. Great advice :-). - All the best.
I always thought the idea of using busses was to allow you to send a group of tracks to a single buss track which you can then add processing to as a whole which also eliminates having to add the same plugin on multiple, individual tracks thus saving on processing power in the process as well? You mentioned the guitar buss on this project for instance and that you have no plugins on it, only on the individual tracks. In this case then, is the only purpose of the buss track is to be used as a single volume fader for the tracks going into that buss? Thanks, great video!
In that session, that's sort of the mentality behind the madness, though having elements routed to their own bus folders helps keep things organized for me. In the case of the kicks, I wanted to process them as a whole, so the bus makes sense there. Other times, I may be doing individual processing on tracks, but want to add tape saturation to the group. So instead of bogging down my cpu with a bunch of tape plugins doing the same thing, I can treat them all with one plugin on the bus. With tracks that have FX sends, it gets trickier because you can't process all your guitars on the bus, as the FX won't be receiving any of that processing on the bus, if sending from the individual tracks.
Do you know Austin Hull? He's like how many slots I can fill with plugins 😀 Saw a video from him with a fancy plugin chain and I thought you can do it with 2 plugins. Don't get me wrong, this guy is very good.
Dang, the new mix sounds so spacious!! I’m very much guilty of stacking up effects and it tends to sound the same way as the original mix; stuffy, too much noise floor, etc.
Sort of randomly choosing this video to ask this question on. I am getting a lot out of your videos, and I’d like to ask how to best be the serious amateur mixer for one artist (spouse in this case) and collaborate with a professional mixer. Even when trying to keep my work simple, it can get a bit complicated trying to figure out what to send and not send, what to send as bounced single tracks vs bounced busses (or both), etc. My goal is to make it as stress free as possible for the pro engineer to work with me, and at the same time, give them whatever they need to reuse what is good that I have done and/or replace whatever I have dome that they can do better from scratch.
I come from the old days where you spent more time getting your amp, drums and vocals sound right before those even entered the console. This is still the biggest timesaver for mixing, and with more experience everyone in the band will have his couple of signature sounds and use those again and again. A recording session is not the time to experiment.
Thanks for the very helpful video. Agree completely. lMy group buses only have a compressor to glue things together. I never have more than 3 plugins on an individual track. The mix bus usually only has compression, harmonics and stereo imaging ( perhaps a limiter f needed).
Great video, over compression has been a problem for me too. I think part of the problem is commercial sound is very compressed and we're used to that, unfortunately.
I've experimented here and there with top-down mixing, and I'm never happy with the results. Way back when I first started I saw an interview with Tony Visconti from (I think) around 2007 where he talked about learning foundation-up mixing from his mentor, Denny Cordell, that "mixing starts with the kick drum," and going from there to the snare, then the cymbals, and the bass-and if there's no drums, start with whatever the low-end is, and build the mix around it. Like I said, I've dabbled in other ways of working, but that's always what I end up going back to, since it gives me the best end.
Dave's initial track is awesome. I wish I knew what compels us to over produce. Is it the availability of so many plugins, and the sales pitches? I'm as guilty as him for falling down the mix hole. Thanks to him and you for helping get to the crux and offering up some thoughts to defeat the demon.
I think it’s the lack of understanding coupled with watching a ton of tutorials. That is how I used to mix when I first got started and had bloated projects with tons of plugins and my songs sounded like sh*t. You’re right, the sales pitches could have something to do with it because someone less experienced will think they need to use that plugin every single time.
Damn, I owe so much to you for this video. Thank you for doing this. It really really helped me and I'm one of the more advanced mixers. Thank you for showing both your mix bus compression and your drum bus compression. It was also helpful to see your different settings for each bus to see how each one was affecting the movement of the mix. It revealed something to me that I have been struggling with within my own mixes and I'm now excited to go mix again and see if I can't make my mixes better.
Videos like these remind me that I dont need too much processing to make good music. I have times where it sounds good with just EQ and thats and im like "should I be doing sometjing else? It sounds great to me like this*
Wow! Thats why I'm glad l still use my 4 and 8 track cassette machines. Now, that I'm older, l have a better perspective on mixing, l can make them work. I like less choices, and having to make whats in front of you work instead of endless tweaking...
Good tips. This is an extreme example. The overprocessing is a result of not having the experience how to fix things. Do i need to cut a frequency, boost another one. Do I need more compression, more saturation, etc... One plugin introduces some side effects to be fixed with another plugin like a never ending journey trying to make things sound better. The most important tip is to fix the individual instruments with few basic plugins and not do much bus processing.
What's interesting about this video is because when I started exploring mixing ITB about 10+ years ago, my computer wouldn't allow me to just load up a bunch of plugins without stressing out my system resources causing timing issues, jitter or sometimes flat out crashing the DAW. Also, tbh, plugins back then were still very primitive and prone to introduce distortion as well. I was forced into the habit of keeping bands wide and gains minimal with EQ, keeping low enough levels for headroom, sometimes bouncing the effect like compression permanently and constantly asking myself, "Before I reach for this or that plugin, is the source material or recording adequate?" But these days since computers are way more powerful, DAWs are better optimized, and you can make it rain with plugins without concern for system resources it's easier to fall into rabbit holes now which I'm guilty of sometimes now too.
This video forced me to do a humbling experiment…I thought my mix was sounding pretty good (did the “mixing as you record” train wreck approach). I removed all processing and left just the raw tracks….that alone sounded much better. Lol. I suck. Great video. Much needed slap in the face for me. 🤘
A great video because with all the tech and the options it's very easy to over complicate a mix. From all of these, I would say that top down mixing is THE WORST and has ruined and limited my mix quality the most. Avoid more then a couple of plugins on the drum bus and the mix bus. Save it for the mastering to get the track from 8 to 10 instead of trying to get a 6 to sound like 8.
Great advice [that I knew but when I was "ready again to apply....! I'm a composer/producer and my sounds can get deep. [I compose in Maschine mk2 mikro]. Applying this going forward.
So if I have to put a reverb-used as an effect-in the snare drum, or a delay somewhere, I _don’t have_ to create a bus to insert that effect? Do I have to insert these effects directly into the individual track?
It’s best practice to put effects like that in an aux so you can process them differently, for example a more aggressive high pass on a verb send is typical to remove mud a verb might introduce, but if you put it as an insert, you like it enough as is to commit to, and especially if the plugin has a mix knob, there’s no reason to complicate your life with an aux.
Been really working on simplifying my mixes lately. There’s been too many times where I’ve been trying to fix problems at the source only to realize later that the whole problem was caused by one plugin on a bus somewhere down the line. I’ve also been bouncing tracks more often with basic processing to clean things up even more and stop myself from tinkering
I guess I do the top down thing… I have 1-2 compressors on the mix bus with an eq (I engage this towards the middle/end of the the mix), saturation plugin then a drum master, instrument master and vocal master with trim tool and eq (just in case 😅) then kick and bass, drums, vocals, BGVs, instrument fx and vocal fx all with 1-2 compressors, 2 EQs and saturation (if need be) except the fx busses tho. Then parallel busses for the main busses with just one compressor on. On the individual I just have one eq, and maybe a compressor. I get a sound I’m comfortable with. It gets complicated when I need to use like 2slaps, 3delays and 3-4 reverbs for the instruments and the vocals 😢. My computer starts to breakdown making the automation difficult. I go around it by committing my drum and bass master first, then I commit my lead vocal without a lot of fx and then mix the instruments with all the automations then commit that and then finalize the vocal and squeeze in the BGVs 😂
used to be that guy who tried different "mixing tricks" from whole lot different producers who might not work on rock and metal, only to realize that it's not suitable work on high-energy, dense rock and metal mixes. Nowadays i basically just learn how people in the genre that i actually worked on like Nolly did and apply it to my own.
Right on. Common tips like boosting 60 Hz on the kick track is useless if you've recorded your kick with a mic that already has that EQ curve baked in it. You only end up with way too much sub bass. Then again, if you used a blank canvas like Ev RE20, you might wanna shape the EQ more aggressively
Ok. I see the problem too. I try to use as few plugins as possible but I too often use a lot of them. No where near that many though. I prefer to use some automation for volume issues.
Somewhere I heard that the raw tracks that pro mixers get are so good, they mix themselves. Given that I've started focusing on making each track as good as possible. Plugins won't fix bad tracks. At least that's where I'm going. Seems like this video is a good example of that, after you did your magic Jordan.
Grab your free Mixing Cheatsheet to learn the go-to starting points for EQ and compression in heavy mixes: hardcoremusicstudio.com/mixcheatsheet
😳 Jeeezus, wonder what the CPU hit was like before removing all 100 of those plugins
haha, with my aging setup, even if I wanted to run umteen hundred plug-ins it just couldn't happen..so frugality is key in my mixes@@tonytemple8195
Kudos to Dave for having the courage to submit a mix - that he obviously spent a lot of energy on - to be publicly critiqued.
I'm a relative newb to all of this. The idea of having anyone hear my mixes at this point is terrifying.
On a side note: I loved the song.
Thanks man. I was away from my rig for a few months... my Mom got diagnosed with cancer and passed away. So when I got back home, I needed to get some emotions out, so I dedicated this little jam for her. It's called, Out of the Darkness. I will upload my mix that Jordan roasted on my channel soon.
@@sketchymakesmedanceThanks man. It was/is the most difficult time in my life for sure.
@@davejohnsonmusic Really neat track, dude. All the best to you.
@@nbctheofficeI appreciate that dude. All the best to you as well.
@@davejohnsonmusicsorry for your loss, friend. Lost my mom a few years ago - she was my best friend and greatest champion. Still hurts…:(
And like others have stated: appreciate you sharing your mix. Cool song! And yeah we’ve ALL over-complicated shit in this production/mix game so: join the club!
Wow. I thought I was guilty of over-complication with my 2 EQs, mb compression, reverb/delay and a drum bus until you opened the project. These videos are very helpful. Thanks to those brave enough to submit themselves to criticism
I was gonna say… mine is still a bigger mess than yours though.
"Top down mixing" is one of the RUclipsr audio trends that needs to interrogated for sure :)
Top down is where you put ssl on mix bus, make it compress 3-4 db and forget about it
@BoldSound-f2f this sounds like it actually works
This was a lesson I learnt myself.I kept wondering why my mixes sounded bad until I totally stripped a song down I had been mixing for weeks and listened to it and thought OMG it sounds pretty good with nothing on it.Thats when I started to actually listen to the music and ask myself...ok,whats wrong and how do I make it right with minimum effort.Stopping and listening to the music and then taking a short break and coming back to listen again is something I have found to work quite well also.
Jordan is honestly the most helpful mixing teacher on RUclips in my opinion. These videos are always consistent, and are also my go-to if I am wondering about something in this field.
I think the same way!
Thanks Jordan for going over my mix. Your version sounds great man. Definitely a lot of things to think about. However... I must address a few things. Just because there's 10 plugins on my Master doesn't mean I use them all. I have a few different clippers, saturators, compressors and limiters. Depending on the track, I choose the flavor that works best. You can see in the comment below the track which plugins are actually used on the Master for this session.
To add to that, some plugins on tracks are automated to come in only at specific times in the mix. Most tracks will already have two plugin slots taken for subtle tape saturation and console emulation… just a tiny bit of color and not seriously sculpting the track. I don’t have HEAT in my Pro Tools version, so I have to add saturation to tracks/busses individually. Same thing on the 2-Bus… a lot of that stuff is merely for subtle color, but I think it makes a difference honestly. It looks like a lot, but it’s really not that complicated if you actually see what’s being used, when and how much.
I do have a lot of aux tracks, but if you see the levels, they are being blended in very subtly. A lot of my session workflow is based off of Andrew Schep’s bus and parallel concepts. I just like to try different things out and see what works for me, but I guess I’ve got a long way to go still. I will have to rethink my approach for upcoming sessions. Ok, I’m going to have a drink now.
Your mix to me didn't sound too bad, but when Jordan A/B it with his mix I could notice especially the snare was really squashed. That was the track mostly affected by this overprocessing.
@@alessandrosummerI did wind up bringing the ratio up a bit towards the end because I thought the snare was poking out too much. Metal isn't really my thing, but most of the stuff I reference out there have really squashed snares, so I thought maybe mine needed to be clamped down a bit more.
@@davejohnsonmusicah ok, so I guess it was the fault of the crappy snares that are out today (even in metal you hear these horrible overcompressed sounds). Maybe try lowering the output of the track, I think it would give you a better sound.
Ur mix isn't bad but the point here is a more simplified way to achieve a great result without having to go through all the processes u went though also he mentioned that if it sounded good with ur process its simply ok to maintain ur workflow but his point is clear enough and valid, besides i believe the purpose of the video has been established n clearly not targeted at criticizing your mix. with love brother
I think you just proved Jordan’s point mate. You have multiple plugins that aren’t engaged just in case. If it needs saturation then just grab the plug-in you need for the job. You have multiple mix busses mixed in subtly for analogue flavour, just put a tape emulator on the mix bus and dial it in until you have what you’re looking for. Respect for putting yourself out there to be grilled, you’re taking a hit for many many people who are going to benefit from seeing this.
That idea of simplicity is a gold! Your 1-h mix sound incredible. Great skills!
I'm a guitar player primarily but I have been doing digital audio recording for a couple of decades now. I'm also an information technology specialist in my day job. I just want to give the observation that one reason for all of the overcomplication and excess these days is because people can. Simple as that. There was a time when you were so limited in your processing and memory and I/O and latency that you were physically limited by the hardware and software and over the years those restrictions have fallen away. The amazing power of today's computers and the optimization of the software and operating systems (not to mention the improvements in interfaces) is making people lazy and overly reliant on dumping more paint onto the canvas instead of making sure that the paint that they're using is doing the job right.
Use less paint and focus on the quality of the audio. Graham Cochrane has been preaching this for years: Limit your options. God bless you Graham!
The most skill that people are lacking is Vision. Before reaching for any tool, a mixer needs to have a clear vision where sonically he wants to get the track. I think it is the hardest part because very often people move knobs hoping it will accidently make a track sound better and repeat the process.
That is a hard achievement, because when you start out you don't know from what track you can reach what results. If you have the "right" snappy snare sound baked into your head then you will hear what is missing and you work towards that goal.
That is true. Its like composing. People think its harder whilst composing or arranging. Thinking its the inspiratoon that will move you but thats not the case. You pick it up and say "im doing this" and just do it
@@pedrosilvaproductions there's also a chance when your composition hits you, you get fired up.
Well said
Well if things are recorded the way they are supposed to be instead of lame safe flabby weak OR ridiculously over processed shite where their gear is more the star than the performance I.e naming your tracks based on the rack compressor it’s using lol 😅
In my experience being a mixer is just way too over glorified and that’s the difference of why things worked back in the 60’s 70’s 80’s and 90’s. You made that shit happen in the studio and mixing was an after thought of balance. I want to hear the song pretty much as soon as it brought up on the faders. It’s not hard if the tracking engineer knows what they are doing.
Track sounds good Dave!
Thank you. I have the full version up on my channel.
I feel that a big part of over complicated mixes is inaccurate monitoring. More and more plugins are added to compensate for bad processing or mix decisions from inaccurate monitoring. If you trust your room an Monitors and know the tools it’s quite easy to put things into shape.
7:35 the clarity and dynamics are brutal in difference
There's a lot of wisdom displayed here. I have to agree, and confess I've been guilty of just tons of overdoing it to try to follow the greats.
Anybody else try to Brauerize your mixes? What a large 'pit of despair' that turned out to be!
In the end, regardless of the different pieces of advice I had gleened from RUclips that I tried and dismissed or tried and kept...it all really came down to simplifying everything for me. My mixes got 100 times better, and I found a work flow and a way to build mixes that works for me across multiple projects and genres.
Having said that, I still have to admit to far too much buss processing in an attempt to hit certain volume levels, as well as provide a more analog sound...
So I still have some 'growing' to do it would seem!
The internet and RUclips are a great resource for knowledge and information, and unfortunately misinformation too!
If you are smart, you will listen to the folks who are making verified 'records' and weed out the ones giving parrotted advice.
As such, I follow Jordan. Maybe you should too?
This is super helpful. I think especially as a new person it's easy to feel like you have to try all the "tips and tricks" on every mix. So many times I've found everything sounds better with less
this advice feels like it's going to change EVERYTHING for my mixing process. Thank you!
The same is true in the world of color grading - very easy to overcomplicate a grade with lots of secondaries/nodes - better to reset and make sweeping initial moves on the primaries - painting with a broad brush to get 90% of the way there.
And even 90% is all we need. Leave the extra 10% for the Mastering engineer
@@darkcharmrecords Not all mastering engineers are the same, I've learned it's better to not leave much really for the mastering engineer. Only if you trust yours, and know that he'll do the remaining 10%, because some mastering engineers will 'respect' your mix so much that the master will sound exactly the same as your mix, only louder
I love projects that look overcomplicated, but don't sound it. They have lots of lovely textures and tiny sounds that add to the groove or the atmosphere.
I'm all for simplicity, but I love twiddly additions that you'd definitely feel if they were removed, even if they add only a slight touch.
My music is full of very low in volume, background noises.
They both sound great.
Original has more of a 90s vibe going on.
Yes, Jordan’s has more punch and poke, and certainly sounds a couple of decades newer, but the original would certainly get me winding my car windows down too.
Great song!!
Kind words, thank you. My friends always tell me my stuff sounds too 90's. I mean that was probably my most influential time as a guitarist, so it's no surprise I could never really shake those vibes.
Exactly! The original is amazing, somebody was shredding that guitar so who cares about the mix!
This channel is all about what’s wrong from a mix engineers point of view. To him there is no other way than his way. To most people, the material is king. I’m most people.
The only thing is you have to think from the perspective of a music consumer who listens to so many amazing songs regularly. While I don't think the original mix is bad at all, having that extra edge can make your mix stand out and compete with the millions of others putting out amazing music as well.
@@wynton765 I think the average music consumer ain't checking for what the mix sounds like, for engineers it makes a difference yes don't mean to be argumentive just see it different it's not that big of a deal
I'm totally with you on overcomplicated mixes. But otoh lots of people do well with so-called "top down" approaches. The key is to primarily use one approach OR the other. If 'top down' processing ends up meaning you don't need to do much on the individual tracks then that's an equally valid way to work. It's when, as in your example, people have 15 plug ins on every track AND a load of "top down" processing that it veers into overkill.
Yeah, like for example i use a tube saturation plugin on the guitar bus. Way more simple that way than adding saturation plugin on each individual guitar track.
I don't know if you could really use the word "better" when describing your mix. I think a more accurate word would be "different."" Your mix has the guitars quite brittle and thinner sounding than the original mix. Although that may be what your ears need, it clouded the top end that I could hear in the original mix. Your 2.5K~4K area got a little busy. I totally do agree about the overuse of plug-ins. Although I don't know the extent of overuse as I don't see what is being used in the original project, From my experience sometimes less is more. My experience deals more in a stereo picture/imade and felt this mix could use better left right specific placement, rather than just everything Panned hard left and right.
My approach 👌🏻 I try to use as little plugins as possible and choose them carefully
Great video man! And thanks to bro for putting his mix up to be deconstructedso that we can all learn. I literally ran into this last night. I was working on some horrible bgvs and realized i was making them worse by trying to get them to sound a way i wanted in my head. And i dialed back all my processing, made a couple of moves and said, you know what, that sounds better than whatever the hell i was doing earlier lol!
Thank you! I love your concepts and philosophy on mixing.
The new mix sounds much thinner and elements in the midrange disappeared and it didn’t sound like a rock mix. But he is totally right, that setup could be a lot more simple.
One of the best and most important videos on mixing. Every up-and-comer needs to see and hear this.
the best mixing tip is: every mix is different and take every advice with a sack of salt, some songs need little to no processing, others need a damn lot for various reasons (electronic music, ambient music and etc), just dont stick to formulas and advices from everyone
A really quick but effective tip for those who produce and mix their own music:
1- If you are scrolling through your synths and it doesn't sound great without any mix processing, it probably won't with it. Change the amplification or filter curves/envelopes if needed, but the sound should fit your music right after you play with it;
2- If the sound kinda fits your music, but you are not sure, try just to change the volume of it. Make it louder or quieter and see what it can do. (THIS IS POWERFULL)
3- After you tried to change the volume and had no success, you could try to change the FXs in the Synth plugin, like some EQ, comp, distortion, reverb, delays, chorus, etc., use as much as u can inside of the synth plugin before adding more processing after it. It will save a lot of cpu power and will get you a "more ready"/polished sound.
These tips works with ALL type of sounds. Want more highs in that snare? Crank that volume up! Want more LOW-END? Make the kick and bass louder. Make it simple as he told in the video (most of the times, this works when the sound source is already amazing).
Phenomenal video and a real eye-opener, great song by the way!
Much appreciation to Dave for submitting that mix.. which honestly sounded dang great already! Yes, it sounded better after it was fixed… but to be sure it did sound good going in. But this video did give me a good idea of what to look for in my end products now… which wouldn’t have been so obvious using a different track that wasn’t already good (if that makes sense)
I appreciate that man. I did put a lot of time and thought into what I came up with. You really don't know where you stand until you get pro ears on it and a fresh perspective. I actually sent my mix to my friend who has a well-known recording studio in LA and he thought it sounded great, so now I'm confused.
@davejohnsonmusic it did sound pretty good
@@davejohnsonmusic Yeah man… your mix sounded incredible right from the jump and I was jamming to it when he was playing it initially. So you absolutely SHOULD be proud of that track… it’s fire 🔥 man, seriously. What I did notice upon him fixing the mix, was slightly wider stereo field, the guitars were spread out a bit more, the overall mix was tweaked with a slightly more midrange scoop boosting a bit more of the high end / low end (assuming my ears heard it correctly) and just slightly… I mean SLIGHTLY tighter feel overall. Almost detailing a new Porsche before it leaves the car lot… it’s already an awesome car, the detailing just pulls out a few more highlights and makes it sparkle just a little bit more. It is a great track… hope my lame car detailing analogy worked there lol
@@-KingOfKhaosYou know, I actually spread the stereo field slightly on my 2-Bus and mix into that and I actually push my instruments out even a touch more on the Chorus with automation. So I'm not sure exactly why I'm not getting as much spread as Jordan. I did notice the midrange as I was referencing. I tried pulling out some, but then I felt like things weren't cutting through as nicely. Thanks for your input and yes, your analogy is right on. Jordan's just has that Pro sound and mine is more like a demo.
@@davejohnsonmusic Nah… your original mix was well above a demo level… in my opinion anyway. You did have really decent stereo spread as well… so I don’t know what he did to just push it ever so slightly (but noticeably) over the top to add that extra spread. I’m not sure if he did some side channel EQ methods or what… I thought he was going to reveal the secret sauce … if not to us, then at least to you lol! Don’t kick yourself brother… that was a solid mix going in 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I think of all the great sounding albums made before plugins and DAWS, when high-end studios had very limited processing tools, today's GarageBand has way more options. It took me a long time to figure out how much can be done with an EQ, panning, volume, and a couple of good compressors. But most important is tracking I spend a lot of time setting up the session and getting it going in. There are way too many plugins and a lot of the plugins are like musical instruments you need to learn how to play them. I am so much happier since the great plugin purge I conducted in 2022
This 100%. So often I just jot a guitartrack down, think it’s ok-ish and will probably better as soon as I throw some plugin fairy dust on it. Some mixes are better than others. If I just tweak 30 minutes more with placement, dialing effects better, my mixes would sound so much better
Pretty cool to see this before getting started with mixing in a daw. perfect timing for me, and very helpful! Thanks
Definitely guilty of this. I think it comes from trying to re-invent the wheel to gain competitive edge. The thinking for me, before, went "if i combine Michael Brauer's mix techniques, AND manny marroqins, AND Chris Lorde Alge, AND some hip hop mix engineers, AND Serban Ghenea .... i can find my own totally unique flavor" and it leads to overpurchasing plugins, overusing them, and not streamlining at any point of the process.
Great video Jordan. Hope you make tons of these, literally with the same message but different mixes from viewers. Hammer it home please.
This is one of the most useful sessions you've done. Great info!
I started out back in the 90’s with very little analog gear and made the most of what I had. The world of plug-ins has gotten ridiculously good over the last 10+ yrs. Found myself using a ton of stuff making these micro moves which in some instances isn’t such a bad thing but not a way of life either. Anymore depending on how the tracks are recorded I might use a couple outboard pieces and maybe a plug-in or 2 but going back to the making more out of less has been really the best mentality. Act like you’re limited and you’ll get more out of using less. CLA makes aggressive moves. It works.
I love that you made this video. I teach Audio Engineering/Recording at a media tech school. I tell and show my students about not over doing it. Just bus compression and that's it will get the job done and have you sounding pro. I've seen some mixes where they throw everything at it hahaha. I will show them this video to prove my point. I enjoy your channel, man. Keep this up!!
I totally understand the value of what you are saying. We are all guilty of this.
That's why if i have a shitload of plugins or processing on one track, usually what I'll do is just bounce in place and shut off all power to the original track to ensure zero processing is taking place. That allows the computer to save all that processing power for something else and forces you to commit. I also hide the originals so they aren't clogging up the session visually.
I'll even do that with aux tracks. Sometimes I'll print the effects to a waveform as well.
Commit people. Bounce in place. You can always go back the original track and adjust it and bounce in place again if you have to.
Great video. One rule that has served me very well over the past 3 decades of recording and mixing is try to limit yourself to 2 or 3 steps of processing (hardware or software) for both the recording and mixing phases. If you cannot get the sound desired after using 3 or 4 pieces of gear or plugins, you have a source problem. Continuing to add processing from that point can seriously start to degrade or skew the source sound. From phase issues to weird problems hard to diagnose, over-processing your tracks is an easy way to get stuck in the mud.
When in doubt, start over with processing, or better yet, record a better source if possible. The amount of sessions I get with 50+ plugins on them is ever increasing it seems.
Can’t recommend the program of Jordan enough!!
Thank you Jordan and Team for all your work here on RUclips
That session he pulled up gave me so much anxiety even though Im not even the one mixing it! Great job making sense of it all. Sounds super good.
I was talking to a friend today about this. As amateur musicians/composers and the waste of time with hundreds of plugins and shit... just for a demo for ourselves.
I use one compressor, one or two EQs and the instrument emulator or amp emulator. A reverb and delay on vocals (just in case), a de-esser.
And that's it. You were talking about why old producers were so good with the stuff that they made and it was because they have a couple of EQ, a couple of compressors and some other stuff. I just made a folder with those plugins and I forgot about the others.
I'm just really grateful I found you Jordan!!! THANK YOU!!
I wouldn’t say the new mix is that much better. The old mix sound more 3D. It just has some issues in the low mids.
Yeah my mixes pretty dramatically improved when I started to focus on simplicity/minimalism it really pays off
Great video!! I just watched it and couldn't agree more. I started out in the 70s, with a 4 track DoCorder, then Teac 80-8, to 24 tracks of Adat and finally, more years ago than I care to think about Cubase SX and now Cubase Pro 13. When I set up a project for my own music my template will put an eq and comp on each channel and I will take out the ones I don't need. I put a comp on my busses which are always KS, Toms, Cymbals, Room, Percussion, Acoustic Gtr, Electric Gtr, Keys, Backing Vox and Lead Vox. I want to use as few plug-ins as I can get away with. The most important thing you said in this video was to capture the source correctly. If you do this simple, yet very hard thing, you will need way less post processing.
Thanks for a great video and I hope people will listen and hear what it is you are saying...especially guitarist...yes, I am one. I prefer to get a great tone out of my Mesa Cab .22 and only add effects if needed.
Great new mix. My story, full time musician in house band. Due to uh, misappropriation of my available money due to substance abuse most of the time I played with borrowed guitar and amp. Never knowing what I was going to have sometimes night to night I had to learn quickly how to get my best tone from what was available. I'm far beyond those days now but what I learned has been invaluable. Those knobs are on everything for a reason. Later Never having been a "pedal guy " my tone would be hard driven guitar that sounded excellent by itself with singing sustain, but wouldn't cut thru the mix. Keep it simple.
Well Said ...Learned Alot
Man, your content is awesome. I have nothing to say but compliments. Comenting to help youtube push this to more people.
Thanks for your advice man! I produce electronic dance music and you probably would be scared of my project at first glance because I have a lot of plugins on every channel. These plugins are actually doing almost nothing but colouring the sound of each channel a bit. Emulating Tape, Transformer, Console and running through Pultec and 1176 on each channel simply gives every track some spark and life (warmth) where it’s sounding dead if bypassed everything. I calibrated all plugins to be at nearly unity gain, so it’s really just about „electrifying“ each channel without doing significant sound shaping or compression. My mix busses also have multiple compressors which only kiss the needle with 1-2 db compression. This is all part of my default template, so I don’t setup it up each time I work on a project, it’s just there as if you would switch on your analoge studio. For any sound shaping and detail mixing, I‘m doing it in the individual channel most of the time like you recommend. My busses are usually just acting as a light glue (and coloring of course). I finished 4 songs with this kind of setup and must say if I just switch off the colorizing plugins my tracks sound dead. I even published a short video „What if my studio setup was a plugin?“ where I add those plugin layers one by one and you can hear the difference from „dry“ to mastered (by a mastering engineer) in four steps. The basic concept behind it is based on Michael Brauers mixing approach, but I adjusted it to my personal needs and taste. I think what stands out is that everyone should find a personal way that works effectively and saves time while increasing quality.
Amazing! Your simple mix is another dimension than original! Like B.B King said... "-Less is more!"
Massive improvement to the mix. I've done this to myself and stripping it back worked
Love you man, you just changed my perpective on mixing. Now it's just few plugins and a way better mix.
I use an ssl comp, 2x L2 on my mix bus. Thats it. (One L2 is set as a soft clipper)
I run 6 different buses for low end but don’t use all for any instruments Each bus is just a compressor and eq for color saturation depending on which instrument it can improve
I run 4 buses for high end for color an ine for stereo width with ozone relay
Finally i might create a couple reverb buses for color and space and maybe a delay or echo bus
In the end each instrument only gets processed by two to four plug in prior to entering mix bus
I agree with almost everything, said in this video, except for the statement to get rid of everything on your mix bus, except for the compressor
I do believe running an L2 as a soft clipper on your mix bus is a good thing
Also, I would add to any bus you have a compressor reverb or delay on. You should also have an EQ
Warren Huert is a God of mixers, and he constantly reinforces people telling them to put issues on their reverbs. Put an EQ on your delay put an EQ on your compressor buses.
Too many people forget to EQ buses according to him
🤙
@HardoreMusicStudio Thank you for this great insight! I will remove EQs from the mix bus and use it only with the instrument channels. Great advice :-). - All the best.
Excellent video. Glad it came across my feed. I subscribed.
Been guilty of this time and time again.......
Thanks! That makes a lot of sence!
Found out recently that my best tracks had (in General) the fewest plugins.
I always thought the idea of using busses was to allow you to send a group of tracks to a single buss track which you can then add processing to as a whole which also eliminates having to add the same plugin on multiple, individual tracks thus saving on processing power in the process as well?
You mentioned the guitar buss on this project for instance and that you have no plugins on it, only on the individual tracks. In this case then, is the only purpose of the buss track is to be used as a single volume fader for the tracks going into that buss?
Thanks, great video!
In that session, that's sort of the mentality behind the madness, though having elements routed to their own bus folders helps keep things organized for me. In the case of the kicks, I wanted to process them as a whole, so the bus makes sense there. Other times, I may be doing individual processing on tracks, but want to add tape saturation to the group. So instead of bogging down my cpu with a bunch of tape plugins doing the same thing, I can treat them all with one plugin on the bus. With tracks that have FX sends, it gets trickier because you can't process all your guitars on the bus, as the FX won't be receiving any of that processing on the bus, if sending from the individual tracks.
Do you know Austin Hull? He's like how many slots I can fill with plugins 😀 Saw a video from him with a fancy plugin chain and I thought you can do it with 2 plugins. Don't get me wrong, this guy is very good.
Excellent video Jordan. I had to learn this the hard way ten years ago. Thank you for your content.
I’m thankful I’ve never had issues overcomplicating stuff.
Gosh, you made that sound so good in just an hour!
Dang, the new mix sounds so spacious!! I’m very much guilty of stacking up effects and it tends to sound the same way as the original mix; stuffy, too much noise floor, etc.
Thank you, Jordan! Since I listened to your teaching my mixing process and outcome have greatly improved!
Sort of randomly choosing this video to ask this question on.
I am getting a lot out of your videos, and I’d like to ask how to best be the serious amateur mixer for one artist (spouse in this case) and collaborate with a professional mixer.
Even when trying to keep my work simple, it can get a bit complicated trying to figure out what to send and not send, what to send as bounced single tracks vs bounced busses (or both), etc.
My goal is to make it as stress free as possible for the pro engineer to work with me, and at the same time, give them whatever they need to reuse what is good that I have done and/or replace whatever I have dome that they can do better from scratch.
I come from the old days where you spent more time getting your amp, drums and vocals sound right before those even entered the console. This is still the biggest timesaver for mixing, and with more experience everyone in the band will have his couple of signature sounds and use those again and again. A recording session is not the time to experiment.
Thanks for the very helpful video. Agree completely. lMy group buses only have a compressor to glue things together. I never have more than 3 plugins on an individual track. The mix bus usually only has compression, harmonics and stereo imaging ( perhaps a limiter f needed).
Great video, over compression has been a problem for me too. I think part of the problem is commercial sound is very compressed and we're used to that, unfortunately.
I've experimented here and there with top-down mixing, and I'm never happy with the results. Way back when I first started I saw an interview with Tony Visconti from (I think) around 2007 where he talked about learning foundation-up mixing from his mentor, Denny Cordell, that "mixing starts with the kick drum," and going from there to the snare, then the cymbals, and the bass-and if there's no drums, start with whatever the low-end is, and build the mix around it. Like I said, I've dabbled in other ways of working, but that's always what I end up going back to, since it gives me the best end.
I needed this video last week. My latest mix is almost crashing the computer with a bazillion plugins and still sounds!
Dave's initial track is awesome. I wish I knew what compels us to over produce. Is it the availability of so many plugins, and the sales pitches? I'm as guilty as him for falling down the mix hole. Thanks to him and you for helping get to the crux and offering up some thoughts to defeat the demon.
I think it’s the lack of understanding coupled with watching a ton of tutorials. That is how I used to mix when I first got started and had bloated projects with tons of plugins and my songs sounded like sh*t. You’re right, the sales pitches could have something to do with it because someone less experienced will think they need to use that plugin every single time.
It’s the game of “what if.” Endless rabbit hole of endlessly trying different things out
Damn, I owe so much to you for this video. Thank you for doing this. It really really helped me and I'm one of the more advanced mixers. Thank you for showing both your mix bus compression and your drum bus compression. It was also helpful to see your different settings for each bus to see how each one was affecting the movement of the mix. It revealed something to me that I have been struggling with within my own mixes and I'm now excited to go mix again and see if I can't make my mixes better.
Videos like these remind me that I dont need too much processing to make good music. I have times where it sounds good with just EQ and thats and im like "should I be doing sometjing else? It sounds great to me like this*
Wow! Thats why I'm glad l still use my 4 and 8 track cassette machines. Now, that I'm older, l have a better perspective on mixing, l can make them work.
I like less choices, and having to make whats in front of you work instead of endless tweaking...
Good tips. This is an extreme example. The overprocessing is a result of not having the experience how to fix things. Do i need to cut a frequency, boost another one. Do I need more compression, more saturation, etc... One plugin introduces some side effects to be fixed with another plugin like a never ending journey trying to make things sound better. The most important tip is to fix the individual instruments with few basic plugins and not do much bus processing.
What's interesting about this video is because when I started exploring mixing ITB about 10+ years ago, my computer wouldn't allow me to just load up a bunch of plugins without stressing out my system resources causing timing issues, jitter or sometimes flat out crashing the DAW. Also, tbh, plugins back then were still very primitive and prone to introduce distortion as well. I was forced into the habit of keeping bands wide and gains minimal with EQ, keeping low enough levels for headroom, sometimes bouncing the effect like compression permanently and constantly asking myself, "Before I reach for this or that plugin, is the source material or recording adequate?" But these days since computers are way more powerful, DAWs are better optimized, and you can make it rain with plugins without concern for system resources it's easier to fall into rabbit holes now which I'm guilty of sometimes now too.
That mixer has spent way too many hours watching Warren Huert RUclips videos.
This video forced me to do a humbling experiment…I thought my mix was sounding pretty good (did the “mixing as you record” train wreck approach). I removed all processing and left just the raw tracks….that alone sounded much better. Lol. I suck. Great video. Much needed slap in the face for me. 🤘
Man sometimes raw tracks sound really good and we can in our own way with all of these plugins!
Damn this is awesome video idea keep them up. Ive been a follower for many years, your mixing methods are always 100% efficient
Your mix is so bright/clear. But impressive sound for just 1 hour of work with less plugins.
When creating mix clarity to make vocals and instruments shine, absolutely use sidechain processing (dynamic eq) on the opposite busses.
Best mix advice in youtube
A great video because with all the tech and the options it's very easy to over complicate a mix.
From all of these, I would say that top down mixing is THE WORST and has ruined and limited my mix quality the most.
Avoid more then a couple of plugins on the drum bus and the mix bus. Save it for the mastering to get the track from 8 to 10 instead of trying to get a 6 to sound like 8.
This video is SO extremely valuable!!!! I couldn't agree more with everything you said. OMG so many plugins I felt the anxiety haha.
Great advice [that I knew but when I was "ready again to apply....! I'm a composer/producer and my sounds can get deep. [I compose in Maschine mk2 mikro]. Applying this going forward.
Thanks for this man! This video helped me alot.
So if I have to put a reverb-used as an effect-in the snare drum, or a delay somewhere, I _don’t have_ to create a bus to insert that effect? Do I have to insert these effects directly into the individual track?
It’s best practice to put effects like that in an aux so you can process them differently, for example a more aggressive high pass on a verb send is typical to remove mud a verb might introduce, but if you put it as an insert, you like it enough as is to commit to, and especially if the plugin has a mix knob, there’s no reason to complicate your life with an aux.
_Grazie_ !
Been really working on simplifying my mixes lately. There’s been too many times where I’ve been trying to fix problems at the source only to realize later that the whole problem was caused by one plugin on a bus somewhere down the line. I’ve also been bouncing tracks more often with basic processing to clean things up even more and stop myself from tinkering
I guess I do the top down thing… I have 1-2 compressors on the mix bus with an eq (I engage this towards the middle/end of the the mix), saturation plugin then a drum master, instrument master and vocal master with trim tool and eq (just in case 😅) then kick and bass, drums, vocals, BGVs, instrument fx and vocal fx all with 1-2 compressors, 2 EQs and saturation (if need be) except the fx busses tho. Then parallel busses for the main busses with just one compressor on. On the individual I just have one eq, and maybe a compressor. I get a sound I’m comfortable with. It gets complicated when I need to use like 2slaps, 3delays and 3-4 reverbs for the instruments and the vocals 😢. My computer starts to breakdown making the automation difficult.
I go around it by committing my drum and bass master first, then I commit my lead vocal without a lot of fx and then mix the instruments with all the automations then commit that and then finalize the vocal and squeeze in the BGVs 😂
used to be that guy who tried different "mixing tricks" from whole lot different producers who might not work on rock and metal, only to realize that it's not suitable work on high-energy, dense rock and metal mixes. Nowadays i basically just learn how people in the genre that i actually worked on like Nolly did and apply it to my own.
this is the way!!!
Right on. Common tips like boosting 60 Hz on the kick track is useless if you've recorded your kick with a mic that already has that EQ curve baked in it. You only end up with way too much sub bass. Then again, if you used a blank canvas like Ev RE20, you might wanna shape the EQ more aggressively
Wow! The new mix sounds more open, punchy and clear (in a good way)! The original mix sounds dark and muddy.
great video as always, thanks!
Ok. I see the problem too. I try to use as few plugins as possible but I too often use a lot of them. No where near that many though. I prefer to use some automation for volume issues.
Hmmmm….there definitely some stuff to think about here. Good tips!!
Somewhere I heard that the raw tracks that pro mixers get are so good, they mix themselves. Given that I've started focusing on making each track as good as possible. Plugins won't fix bad tracks. At least that's where I'm going. Seems like this video is a good example of that, after you did your magic Jordan.
wow that was an overwhelming mix session - plugin madness
Damn, you are the man for doing this. Thank you so much!
awesome advice. thanks man
Thanks for the advice
Thanks Jordan, could you dive into mixing genres like afrobeat and afropop,
Awesome! Very very helpful.