Glad you enjoyed! I’m trying incorporating more 48V content for those who prefer this system voltage. Don’t worry 12V will still be featured as well! Probably some 24 and 36 mixed in too!
2 месяца назад+1
For smaller systems or those tied to dedicated operation in things like motor homes the useability to efficiency is acceptable.. Once you get into the larger home installations where you have 5kw to 20kw of panels and as in my case 12kw of split phase inverters for 240vac supply at over 50a with a 75a surge 48vdc/51.2vdc or in my case 54.6vdc/60.2vdc the 12.8v systems become inefficient and impractical.. This is where planning and futureproofing a system is very important because plan wrong and you will be paying more when you do want to upgrade..
I strongly recommend to avoid the 15S batteries. These standards are all originally derived from lead-acid which would be 2.1v/cell with 24 cells in series (24S), or an operating range of 42v to 58v. The 15S LiFePO4 peaks out under 55v. The 16s LiFePO4 is more universal, being the same as 4x12v in series or 2x24v in series, both resulting in 16S LiFePO4 cells.
2 месяца назад
Agreed, those 15 cell batteries have a far shorter lifespan because they are being pushed to their limits to act like a 16 cell battery.. The only case I would say they are better is when you have sensitive electronics that have poor input regulation which requires a voltage very close to 12vdc.. Some cheap 48v inverters have 51v input maxes so you have to beware.. Many people have learned this the hard way with failures, installing a dc to dc buck converter/regulator to trim down say a 14.4v input to 12v on 4 cell batteries has been their solution.. I have yet to see any higher voltage to 48v regulated buck converters that could handle a large load..
The industry standard for LiFePO4 "48V" batteries is (and has always been) 16s. That is 51.2V nominal, 56.8V charge target, and a 53.6V-54.0V float. At 48.0V a 16s battery will be 95% empty. This makes it highly desirable. Some vendors tried to lowball people by selling 15s packs because they could advertise them as "48V" even though they were one cell short of the standard. It turned into a marketing mess and unfortunately a lot of people fell for it and got stuck with them. A 15s pack is 48.0V nominal, 53.25V target, 50.25V-50.625V float. The problem with 15s is that 95% discharged will be down at 45.0V and many inverters and other pieces of gear have higher low-voltage cut-offs and so are unable to use the full capacity of the batteries. Plus at higher power levels the voltage sag will cause warning bleeps, whistles, beeps, and creeps and... it gets annoying. They cannot be mixed. People should definitely go with 16s in all circumstances and avoid 15s LiFePO4 batteries. -Matt
Yes I have seen Paoweric but I haven’t ever worked with any of their products. I think they have or did have a 15S unit a while ago don’t know if they have 16S versions now…
Do you know if the newer Growatt inverters only will work with their own batteries? Ex. the MOD10KTL-XC in the specs it says it's only compatible with their ARK-XC battery. My question is becourse those are quite expensive compared to other non-growatt batteries and i'm worried that I will be "Vendor locked" if i buy a Growatt inverter.
Not well versed with Growatt equipment or their developments. I can’t give you an accurate answer, sorry.
2 месяца назад+2
My 8kw Outback Radian inverter has a max safe operating voltage of 65vdc listed in the factory specs. so I built 2x 300a 17 cell LifePo4 batteries to give me 54.4v battery packs that I charge to 60.2vdc.. This creates a far more efficient low end when the system stops pulling current from the batteries at 49.6v thus the electronics are not pulling a higher rate of amps which cause more heat and stress.. I could if it was an emergency run them down to 45v but this is the point that damage is occurring to both the batteries and inverter so I rally have no desire or plans for this.. Beware that 5.12kw capacity because this is unsafe max charge to that unsafe minimum charge where cell degradation happens and the lifespan of the cells is vastly reduced.. At no lower than 2.8v and no higher than 3.6v per cell you double the life of the battery over the 2.5v and 3.65v discharge/charge cycle for maybe 5 amps of current..
Nice setup! I didn’t cover recommended charge voltages this was meant to help the viewer understand and possibly help others who were wondering. I charge to 55.2V and have “float” inverter hold at 53.8 to 54.0 depending on season. Rarely ever go below 52.0 unless weather sets in for days on end.
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Thanks for this video I use 12v but great info
Glad you enjoyed! I’m trying incorporating more 48V content for those who prefer this system voltage. Don’t worry 12V will still be featured as well! Probably some 24 and 36 mixed in too!
For smaller systems or those tied to dedicated operation in things like motor homes the useability to efficiency is acceptable.. Once you get into the larger home installations where you have 5kw to 20kw of panels and as in my case 12kw of split phase inverters for 240vac supply at over 50a with a 75a surge 48vdc/51.2vdc or in my case 54.6vdc/60.2vdc the 12.8v systems become inefficient and impractical.. This is where planning and futureproofing a system is very important because plan wrong and you will be paying more when you do want to upgrade..
I learned something new today. Thank you!
Awesome! You’re most welcome my friend!
I have seen some listings that were 15s, but in the image they would have a blank one to make it look like a 16s. Not good.
This is exactly what you have to look out for! Double check what the specs are and make sure you’re getting what you are paying for!
Buyer beware especially from Chinese manufacturers
Haven’t made it that high in voltage yet. 24 volt is my biggest system. Thanks for the heads up if I ever build a bigger system.
You’re most welcome my friend!
48V components are getting cheaper so a lot more interest in it nowadays!
I strongly recommend to avoid the 15S batteries. These standards are all originally derived from lead-acid which would be 2.1v/cell with 24 cells in series (24S), or an operating range of 42v to 58v. The 15S LiFePO4 peaks out under 55v. The 16s LiFePO4 is more universal, being the same as 4x12v in series or 2x24v in series, both resulting in 16S LiFePO4 cells.
Agreed, those 15 cell batteries have a far shorter lifespan because they are being pushed to their limits to act like a 16 cell battery.. The only case I would say they are better is when you have sensitive electronics that have poor input regulation which requires a voltage very close to 12vdc.. Some cheap 48v inverters have 51v input maxes so you have to beware.. Many people have learned this the hard way with failures, installing a dc to dc buck converter/regulator to trim down say a 14.4v input to 12v on 4 cell batteries has been their solution.. I have yet to see any higher voltage to 48v regulated buck converters that could handle a large load..
The industry standard for LiFePO4 "48V" batteries is (and has always been) 16s. That is 51.2V nominal, 56.8V charge target, and a 53.6V-54.0V float. At 48.0V a 16s battery will be 95% empty. This makes it highly desirable.
Some vendors tried to lowball people by selling 15s packs because they could advertise them as "48V" even though they were one cell short of the standard. It turned into a marketing mess and unfortunately a lot of people fell for it and got stuck with them. A 15s pack is 48.0V nominal, 53.25V target, 50.25V-50.625V float.
The problem with 15s is that 95% discharged will be down at 45.0V and many inverters and other pieces of gear have higher low-voltage cut-offs and so are unable to use the full capacity of the batteries. Plus at higher power levels the voltage sag will cause warning bleeps, whistles, beeps, and creeps and... it gets annoying.
They cannot be mixed. People should definitely go with 16s in all circumstances and avoid 15s LiFePO4 batteries.
-Matt
Thanks Matt!
Ever heard off the Paoweric 12v 300ah lifepo4 Battery.?
Yes I have seen Paoweric but I haven’t ever worked with any of their products. I think they have or did have a 15S unit a while ago don’t know if they have 16S versions now…
Do you know if the newer Growatt inverters only will work with their own batteries?
Ex. the MOD10KTL-XC in the specs it says it's only compatible with their ARK-XC battery. My question is becourse those are quite expensive compared to other non-growatt batteries and i'm worried that I will be "Vendor locked" if i buy a Growatt inverter.
Not well versed with Growatt equipment or their developments. I can’t give you an accurate answer, sorry.
My 8kw Outback Radian inverter has a max safe operating voltage of 65vdc listed in the factory specs. so I built 2x 300a 17 cell LifePo4 batteries to give me 54.4v battery packs that I charge to 60.2vdc.. This creates a far more efficient low end when the system stops pulling current from the batteries at 49.6v thus the electronics are not pulling a higher rate of amps which cause more heat and stress.. I could if it was an emergency run them down to 45v but this is the point that damage is occurring to both the batteries and inverter so I rally have no desire or plans for this.. Beware that 5.12kw capacity because this is unsafe max charge to that unsafe minimum charge where cell degradation happens and the lifespan of the cells is vastly reduced.. At no lower than 2.8v and no higher than 3.6v per cell you double the life of the battery over the 2.5v and 3.65v discharge/charge cycle for maybe 5 amps of current..
Nice setup! I didn’t cover recommended charge voltages this was meant to help the viewer understand and possibly help others who were wondering. I charge to 55.2V and have “float” inverter hold at 53.8 to 54.0 depending on season. Rarely ever go below 52.0 unless weather sets in for days on end.
Thanks for the explanation! I appreciate your efforts! 🙏🏼🫡
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for taking time to watch and comment! Appreciate you!