Wow, I have never seen anyone actually build a full on steam locomotive, this may be one of the best projects that I have ever seen any 2 men do. cheers to you lads and good luck, you already have it running well!
Nice hearing that whistle. I’m barely old enough to remember the last steam trains in service in Ontario. Beautiful technology, it would be wonderful to see a modern iteration in service.
I'm stoked to see other folks around the world showing interest in steam for a sustainable future! I'm in the process of attempting to make a couple of steam powered 2 ton work trucks, much like the old sentinels of the uk. I'm in the us of a.
I was thinking about using a rotary vane motor as a steam engine for a off grid wood power setup, but I never managed to get the water tube boiler working well enough to provide the volume of steam required. I'm a bit of a weird railfan, as I love steam but also care deeply about the environment. This project is so exiting! Keep doing what you are doing, I can't wait to see how this turns out! Good luck from the UK.
Interesting project but I can't help but question the completely dry sided firebox? Wouldnt The heat losses and lack of heating surface would be far less efficient than a traditional wet sided firebox?
This is an interesting project but how do you tell the water level in the boiler ? I can’t see a water sight glass. Also if this boiler was going to be put into a loco it would need to be either riveted or welded they cannot be bolted together. Is there a reason for not using dampeners as those can allow you to control the air flow through the boiler.
The boiler is very different to a conventional loco boiler internally and this permits the use of bolted connections. Water level control is quite different too but needs to be explained in a future video. Dampers are not included for various reasons, see American loco designs, dampers were typically not fitted.
I really should have come back and edited this comment the video you did on the boiler helped a lot on why you can have the bolted section as there is no water on the outside barrel.
Thanks! An important point that I'll cover in a video soon, but yes the boiler water is treated and as a result the tea has a pleasant hint of tannin! (In addition to the tannin from the tea...)
I really love your work. Forgive me if I mentioned these before but 1) It is much faster and more efficient to light a fire 'Upside Down'. Place the LARGEST timbers at the bottom, them progressively smaller pieces on top with the finest on the surface, eg straw, twigs or pellets. Light the TOP of the fire from above. It will burn furiously very quickly with little smoke, lighting the layers below successively, again with minimum smoke. There is a nice vid of this technique being used on a coal-fired SAR locomotive, so it apples to coal firing too. The whole fire is alight in less than half the time that the conventional 'boy-scout' lighting up approach takes which places BIG pieces ON TOP of SMALL pieces and waits for the small pieces to set the large pieces above on fire. The alternative 'Upside Down' firing technique has proved itself many times with my son's wood burning stove and you can find RUclips vids showing this approach being taken by others. We only place large pieces on top once the fire is incandescent. I think you will be able to reach full working pressure at least 30% faster than with the orthodox lighting up method you are using, and with much less smoke. 2) More of a question really.... is there enough calorific value in straw to enable a combine harvester to use the straw it is cutting to drive it forward and power the threshing process? My guess is that it is! Looking forward to more vids from you. Can you test my claim (1) above?
Thanks, Stephen. We gave the pure upside down technique (we normally use the technique in part, even if it doesn't look like it) a go for you when we lit up this week, it didn't work out too well in terms of speed. I think we could make it work better but it involves extra preparation. However, with some development and due to the nature of this boiler, I think there is potential that a fire could be prepared so that it is lit and will raise a full head of steam without attention. I need to find some info before answering (2) but it's simple enough to test out on paper.
@@Mackwell-Co I'm really interested in your approach and can't wait for the next episode on the circulating pumps. Here's a vid about upside down fires ruclips.net/video/NtUUwZEYHBo/видео.html You are right that it takes a little more preparation. There are some vids about 'wet fires' which are also upside down but involve mostly wet wood underneath and a minority of dry woof on top. However I guess wet fires produce a lot of sulphuric acid hostile to the water tubes. I'll dig out a link nevertheless. I am convinced you are onto something big and surely there are loco owners who'd be really pleased to place your boiler on their chassis, though of course you may have other ideas. Go all the way!
Thanks for the links, wood doesn't contain sulphur (unlike coal) so no problem with sulphuric acid but very wet wood is still best to avoid as the energy available to raise steam is much less.
Very interesting looking boiler and a fantastic project. Like one of the other subscribers commented are the firebox side plates dry ? There doesn’t appear to be enough stays for them to be water walls. It would be great in another video to describe the design in more detail. I also look forward to your ideas for the design of the ‘engine’ part of the locomotive. Even with the high degree of superheat you mention, conventional cylinders are woefully inefficient at converting heat into mechanical energy and can never hope to reach the 40 odd percent efficiency that a modern turbo diesel or even a Gardner 6LX can do. Did you have in mind some type of steam turbine ?
Yes they are dry, this is key to combustion efficiency with the added benefit of saving maintenance on stays. Efficiency is never quite as simple as it appears and a reciprocating drive (with all modern detail improvements) offers the most efficient arrangement at this point. Certainly investigated the turbine question early on but it is not justifiable yet.
Good question - looked into reboilering early on but efficiency and therefore power is compromised, compared to designing from scratch with all modern advancements. Initially no mechanical stoker for this loco but a suitable design is under development.
Interesting and impressive... I hope to see this project come to fruition as you seem to be on to something. However I didn't see any evidence of wash-out plugs in the firebox or backhead or fusible plugs , for that matter...
ah so you do know of mr porta, he was said to be as kind and friendly as he was a genious at engineering, and as much as he loved to get into the thick of the work himself, have you thought to use the gasproducer firebox for better mixing and combustion or the cyclonic gas producer firebox which is designed to trap entrained particals from going though the flues and tubes, well anyway good luck many have tried to get a modern working steamer, and there are many good ideas I think that could be farther explored, and the more you push a stephanson style engine the more it heats the steam and drafts the fire hot well till it gets so hot it starts making nox and other pollutents from heating the air,but remember what is empirical taken from practice might not always be the best practice even though experiance tells what worked, it might not be the best that can be done, as porta would say, and steam or external combustion can use any fuel that will burn or generate heat if the furnace on it is set up for it, and its more robust then highly sensitive electronics for steam to be used in remote places. good luck and watch out for scaling on your pipes reducing effecency.
Hello Rider - I recommend the books available from the Advanced Steam Traction Trust, the "5AT Fundamental Design Calculations" in particular for design purposes. advanced-steam.org/books-for-sale/ Sam
8:10 ✅Proposition If I build a small thorium nuclear reactor... maybe we can integrate it in your design (or just try) and get a faster start, no fuel needed, incredible power and long life 🙏😇💜 Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Would love to share some of mine ✅
I would get rid of the bolt together seam around the barrell. this is just a weak point. stays need to be threaded into the plates. barrell should be welded bolt together might be ok for a stationary boiler but not once it is moving around in the frame of a loco. Safety factor for a loco boiler is 5 to 1 in australia.
Hi, Some comments I note your pressure gauge has no siphon pipe or pigs tail connected to it,this means you have steam directly working in the Bordin Tube which is a no.no. Whenever I took a pressure gauge off for calibration I also cleaned out the siphon pipe or pigstail between the pressure gauge and where it is mounted to the boiler. On refitting i would fill the siphon pipe or pigtail with distilled water so that the water would act in the Bourdin Tube It also looks like you may have malleable iron plumbing fittings, this is another no no. If this is the case they should be replaced with black steel steam rated fittings. I operated 235 PSI wood fired boilers for about 30 years. We needed 100 square feet of grate area to produce 22000 pound of steam per hour using wood shavings and hogged fuel which was between 12 to 14% moisture content. The shavings burnt in suspension with a firebox temperature upto 12 - 1300 Degrees C. We used to burn 1.1 tonne of fuel per hour to produce 12000 pound of steam per hour. Have you studied Oliver Bullieds Turf Burner, beautiful engines mounted in the bogies an interesting boiler and large fuel space or Sentinel Cammell's twin engined rail cars with 320 psi Walnough Boilers. Secondary air inlets. I would fit swirl plates in them to create turbulence to the air which creates better contact with the products of combustion.
Many thanks for your concerns. The pressure gauge plumbing is arranged to prevent steam reaching the bourdon tube. The plumbing fittings are all temporary but they are operating within manufacturer's specifications. Thank you for the interesting info on the boilers you operated, great for comparison. I have just recently been reading about Bullied's Turf Burner, very interesting engines indeed!
Hello I am the only current representative designer and project manager of the l.s.n.c railway forester trust I am also the owner we are not up and running yet but I thought I’d let you know your not the only guys trying to build a new class of steam locomotive mine is a bit more traditional but still a bit experimental but I share your interest when it comes to steam locomotives
A 40 ton locomotive. What exactly do you intend to pull with this powerful monster. Understand that a locomotive wheel, regardless of diameter, has the contact area the size of a U.S. dime and tractive effort - the ability to pull a load, depends a LOT on the weight of the engine. You are building a year switcher. Short line diesel engines have more tractive effort.
your barking up the wrong tree try using brown gas will be better your using wood that dose not burn that well use other woods with a higher burn rate and blown in the fire box
@@Mackwell-Co Well I mean I dont exactly see your vision here. I want to drive a steam car and power my house with steam and woodgas. I have my own ideas for my engines I want to build. I want to experiment with steam turbines, water tube boilers, gas reburning. What is new about your train? Looks the same as the other ones.
@@potato2248 yeah I’m also wondering the same thing, how is this a modern boiler becuase this boiler design is more than 100 years old. And also water tube boiler are way more efficient than fire tube boilers.
@@jaydonfuller5256 It is VERY different! It has a dry firebox and massive combustion chamber and a small water-tube heat exchanger in the last third of the boiler.
I will tell you guys again Pallet wood Is NOT good for Steam Rasing As pallet Wood is sprayed with fire retardant The Best wood for steam raseing is pine wood or old railway sleepers cut into 8 inch lengths and cut into kindling and made into fire lighters for loco firing
Wow, I have never seen anyone actually build a full on steam locomotive, this may be one of the best projects that I have ever seen any 2 men do. cheers to you lads and good luck, you already have it running well!
It is good to see that someone else still has faith in the iron horse!!!!!
OH MY GOD!
I just found the gold I've been digging for.
Great! Thanks for your email - I tried to reply but your email address has bounced?
Very impressive, I wish you all the best with your project. Looking forward to future episodes
Nice hearing that whistle. I’m barely old enough to remember the last steam trains in service in Ontario. Beautiful technology, it would be wonderful to see a modern iteration in service.
I'm stoked to see other folks around the world showing interest in steam for a sustainable future!
I'm in the process of attempting to make a couple of steam powered 2 ton work trucks, much like the old sentinels of the uk.
I'm in the us of a.
Would love to hear more about your project!
I was thinking about using a rotary vane motor as a steam engine for a off grid wood power setup, but I never managed to get the water tube boiler working well enough to provide the volume of steam required. I'm a bit of a weird railfan, as I love steam but also care deeply about the environment. This project is so exiting! Keep doing what you are doing, I can't wait to see how this turns out! Good luck from the UK.
Keep thinking! Steam offers excellent potential for sustainable off grid power generation.
if you are a good fireman you can reduce smoke alot
Guess I'm not the only one looking into this thats just awesome
I glad to see a modern steam locomotive design.
Nice to see I'm not the only person attempting this.
Discovered this channel today, subbed, bell on, watching from the start.
Keep. Up the. Good. Work from. Jeremy
This is a wonderful and great project man!! Greetings from Argentina 👋
Thank you!
Amazing video! Great to see that you are a fellow Kiwi
Thanks!
How do you measure the rate of steam production, wet and dry fractions? How are you calculating the thermal efficiency?
Interesting project but I can't help but question the completely dry sided firebox? Wouldnt The heat losses and lack of heating surface would be far less efficient than a traditional wet sided firebox?
This is an interesting project but how do you tell the water level in the boiler ? I can’t see a water sight glass. Also if this boiler was going to be put into a loco it would need to be either riveted or welded they cannot be bolted together. Is there a reason for not using dampeners as those can allow you to control the air flow through the boiler.
The boiler is very different to a conventional loco boiler internally and this permits the use of bolted connections. Water level control is quite different too but needs to be explained in a future video. Dampers are not included for various reasons, see American loco designs, dampers were typically not fitted.
I really should have come back and edited this comment the video you did on the boiler helped a lot on why you can have the bolted section as there is no water on the outside barrel.
why reinvent the wheel? there is a nifty Rogers loco in NZ. drag it out and use it.
Two of them serviceable, nifty locos indeed but sadly not suitable for this project, nor available.
sounds like you hooked your boiler up to some kind of stationary steam engine?
That's the sound of the temporary circulating pump, more info here: ruclips.net/video/BLRNaIkxL2s/видео.html
Interesting project, I wish you well. Is there no water treatment added to the boiler water? ..... makes the tea taste odd :-)
Thanks! An important point that I'll cover in a video soon, but yes the boiler water is treated and as a result the tea has a pleasant hint of tannin! (In addition to the tannin from the tea...)
I noticed you've got a layer of tiles around the inside of the firebox. Does this mean that there's no water jacket around the firebox?
Correct!
I really love your work. Forgive me if I mentioned these before but
1) It is much faster and more efficient to light a fire 'Upside Down'. Place the LARGEST timbers at the bottom, them progressively smaller pieces on top with the finest on the surface, eg straw, twigs or pellets. Light the TOP of the fire from above. It will burn furiously very quickly with little smoke, lighting the layers below successively, again with minimum smoke. There is a nice vid of this technique being used on a coal-fired SAR locomotive, so it apples to coal firing too.
The whole fire is alight in less than half the time that the conventional 'boy-scout' lighting up approach takes which places BIG pieces ON TOP of SMALL pieces and waits for the small pieces to set the large pieces above on fire.
The alternative 'Upside Down' firing technique has proved itself many times with my son's wood burning stove and you can find RUclips vids showing this approach being taken by others. We only place large pieces on top once the fire is incandescent.
I think you will be able to reach full working pressure at least 30% faster than with the orthodox lighting up method you are using, and with much less smoke.
2) More of a question really.... is there enough calorific value in straw to enable a combine harvester to use the straw it is cutting to drive it forward and power the threshing process? My guess is that it is!
Looking forward to more vids from you. Can you test my claim (1) above?
Thanks, Stephen. We gave the pure upside down technique (we normally use the technique in part, even if it doesn't look like it) a go for you when we lit up this week, it didn't work out too well in terms of speed. I think we could make it work better but it involves extra preparation. However, with some development and due to the nature of this boiler, I think there is potential that a fire could be prepared so that it is lit and will raise a full head of steam without attention. I need to find some info before answering (2) but it's simple enough to test out on paper.
@@Mackwell-Co Oh man, thanks for replying. I will dig around to find you a link... gimme a few minutes....
@@Mackwell-Co I'm really interested in your approach and can't wait for the next episode on the circulating pumps. Here's a vid about upside down fires ruclips.net/video/NtUUwZEYHBo/видео.html You are right that it takes a little more preparation. There are some vids about 'wet fires' which are also upside down but involve mostly wet wood underneath and a minority of dry woof on top. However I guess wet fires produce a lot of sulphuric acid hostile to the water tubes. I'll dig out a link nevertheless. I am convinced you are onto something big and surely there are loco owners who'd be really pleased to place your boiler on their chassis, though of course you may have other ideas. Go all the way!
@@Mackwell-Co Here's an example using wet wood which may produce too much sulphuric acid ruclips.net/video/Ndonnv8iHhU/видео.html
Thanks for the links, wood doesn't contain sulphur (unlike coal) so no problem with sulphuric acid but very wet wood is still best to avoid as the energy available to raise steam is much less.
Very interesting looking boiler and a fantastic project. Like one of the other subscribers commented are the firebox side plates dry ? There doesn’t appear to be enough stays for them to be water walls. It would be great in another video to describe the design in more detail.
I also look forward to your ideas for the design of the ‘engine’ part of the locomotive. Even with the high degree of superheat you mention, conventional cylinders are woefully inefficient at converting heat into mechanical energy and can never hope to reach the 40 odd percent efficiency that a modern turbo diesel or even a Gardner 6LX can do. Did you have in mind some type of steam turbine ?
Yes they are dry, this is key to combustion efficiency with the added benefit of saving maintenance on stays. Efficiency is never quite as simple as it appears and a reciprocating drive (with all modern detail improvements) offers the most efficient arrangement at this point. Certainly investigated the turbine question early on but it is not justifiable yet.
Great project, are you going to reboiler an existing loco , and will you have an automatic stoker to maintain steam on the road ?
Good question - looked into reboilering early on but efficiency and therefore power is compromised, compared to designing from scratch with all modern advancements. Initially no mechanical stoker for this loco but a suitable design is under development.
I subscribed 5 seconds into the video
Do you Wanna Steam Compressors increase the Steam pressure in Boiler.
Wow even I wanted to do that to build this big locomotive train
Interesting and impressive... I hope to see this project come to fruition as you seem to be on to something. However I didn't see any evidence of wash-out plugs in the firebox or backhead or fusible plugs , for that matter...
Cheers! No washout plugs = no washouts.
ah so you do know of mr porta, he was said to be as kind and friendly as he was a genious at engineering, and as much as he loved to get into the thick of the work himself, have you thought to use the gasproducer firebox for better mixing and combustion or the cyclonic gas producer firebox which is designed to trap entrained particals from going though the flues and tubes, well anyway good luck many have tried to get a modern working steamer, and there are many good ideas I think that could be farther explored, and the more you push a stephanson style engine the more it heats the steam and drafts the fire hot well till it gets so hot it starts making nox and other pollutents from heating the air,but remember what is empirical taken from practice might not always be the best practice even though experiance tells what worked, it might not be the best that can be done, as porta would say, and steam or external combustion can use any fuel that will burn or generate heat if the furnace on it is set up for it, and its more robust then highly sensitive electronics for steam to be used in remote places.
good luck and watch out for scaling on your pipes reducing effecency.
What is the maximum boiler pressure?
310 psig is the designed working pressure for this boiler.
@@Mackwell-Co where are you located? And are you going to use coal?
@@rudycarlson8245 Canterbury, New Zealand. We're using wood fuel for its excellent environmental performance and sustainability.
@@Mackwell-Co wood is good I like the whistle that you have on it!
what resources did you use to become educated enough to be able to design your boiler with this amount of certainty?
Hello Rider - I recommend the books available from the Advanced Steam Traction Trust, the "5AT Fundamental Design Calculations" in particular for design purposes. advanced-steam.org/books-for-sale/
Sam
How many horsepower would you expect to get from this beastie?
8:10
✅Proposition
If I build a small thorium nuclear reactor... maybe we can integrate it in your design (or just try) and get a faster start, no fuel needed, incredible power and long life 🙏😇💜 Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Would love to share some of mine ✅
I would get rid of the bolt together seam around the barrell. this is just a weak point. stays need to be threaded into the plates. barrell should be welded bolt together might be ok for a stationary boiler but not once it is moving around in the frame of a loco. Safety factor for a loco boiler is 5 to 1 in australia.
Run a secondary engine off the woodgas
I thought the boiler was not going to explode and have no pressure
Lots of pressure and no explosion risk
Hi,
Some comments I note your pressure gauge has no siphon pipe or pigs tail connected to it,this means you have steam directly working in the Bordin Tube which is a no.no. Whenever I took a pressure gauge off for calibration I also cleaned out the siphon pipe or pigstail between the pressure gauge and where it is mounted to the boiler. On refitting i would fill the siphon pipe or pigtail with distilled water so that the water would act in the Bourdin Tube
It also looks like you may have malleable iron plumbing fittings, this is another no no. If this is the case they should be replaced with black steel steam rated fittings.
I operated 235 PSI wood fired boilers for about 30 years. We needed 100 square feet of grate area to produce 22000 pound of steam per hour using wood shavings and hogged fuel which was between 12 to 14% moisture content. The shavings burnt in suspension with a firebox temperature upto 12 - 1300 Degrees C. We used to burn 1.1 tonne of fuel per hour to produce 12000 pound of steam per hour.
Have you studied Oliver Bullieds Turf Burner, beautiful engines mounted in the bogies an interesting boiler and large fuel space or Sentinel Cammell's twin engined rail cars with 320 psi Walnough Boilers.
Secondary air inlets. I would fit swirl plates in them to create turbulence to the air which creates better contact with the products of combustion.
Many thanks for your concerns. The pressure gauge plumbing is arranged to prevent steam reaching the bourdon tube. The plumbing fittings are all temporary but they are operating within manufacturer's specifications. Thank you for the interesting info on the boilers you operated, great for comparison. I have just recently been reading about Bullied's Turf Burner, very interesting engines indeed!
Hello I am the only current representative designer and project manager of the l.s.n.c railway forester trust I am also the owner we are not up and running yet but I thought I’d let you know your not the only guys trying to build a new class of steam locomotive mine is a bit more traditional but still a bit experimental but I share your interest when it comes to steam locomotives
Would love to hear more about your project!
A 40 ton locomotive. What exactly do you intend to pull with this powerful monster. Understand that a locomotive wheel, regardless of diameter, has the contact area the size of a U.S. dime and tractive effort - the ability to pull a load, depends a LOT on the weight of the engine. You are building a year switcher. Short line diesel engines have more tractive effort.
your barking up the wrong tree try using brown gas will be better your using wood that dose not burn that well use other woods with a higher burn rate and blown in the fire box
What is new about it? Looks kinda crap tbh
Everything. Agreed, needs a paint job asap.
@@Mackwell-Co Well I mean I dont exactly see your vision here. I want to drive a steam car and power my house with steam and woodgas. I have my own ideas for my engines I want to build. I want to experiment with steam turbines, water tube boilers, gas reburning. What is new about your train? Looks the same as the other ones.
@@potato2248 yeah I’m also wondering the same thing, how is this a modern boiler becuase this boiler design is more than 100 years old. And also water tube boiler are way more efficient than fire tube boilers.
@Jaydon Fuller Appearances can be deceptive! Have a look at EP5: ruclips.net/video/BLRNaIkxL2s/видео.html
@@jaydonfuller5256 It is VERY different! It has a dry firebox and massive combustion chamber and a small water-tube heat exchanger in the last third of the boiler.
I will tell you guys again Pallet wood Is NOT good for Steam Rasing As pallet Wood is sprayed with fire retardant The Best wood for steam raseing is pine wood or old railway sleepers cut into 8 inch lengths and cut into kindling and made into fire lighters for loco firing
maybe this would also happen alot in the current jobless situation we are currently living.
Think about it.
Very american whistle for a very british duo.
Australian
@@spookyf1 Actually New Zealand. Should have listened