Great job! When I have a plan review or a question on welders, because we deal with them so little I slow way down and go through the steps as you have have demonstrated! Again great job!!
Thanks for explaining this in a thorough and logical manner. People who know the least often seem to post the most technical content videos, with the best information coming from competent comments. You are a refreshing exception to that pattern.
Thanks for covering this topic. I took my ID Master's recently and there were a few questions on this topic that I am pretty sure I bombed royally. This was very helpful. Much appreciated.
This is a great video. I love the way you can explain things. I would like to make 2 points. 1.) At 14:28 as you were reading Item 1 you said 75 amps not 70 as noted in the code. It is an easy error. 75 is a much more common number than 70 in the book and all the stuff that is made for electrical stuff. I am also older and hard of hearing so I might have it wrong. 2.) I think you should note that this discussion is about the wires and overcurrent devices that supply electricity to the welders discussed and has nothing to do with the wires that come from the welder and feed "the work" or what is to be welded. There is an old term in welding for the return lead - "The Ground." Some places and teachers are trying to slowly change the term to the "Return Lead." Welding is so interesting because you are playing with high amperages and lower voltages derived from 208/220/440 or many other line voltages and yet the person doing the welding is in contact with electricity. I have had my hands around the electrode to steady it ("protected" by the leather gloves and the flux coating on the electrode) while leaning on the metal to be welded and with my feet in contact with the earth and never a shock. I love wiring and welding. They are both very complex.
Quick question probably just a easy mistake. You were talking about resistance welder and the example was an automated welder at 174 amp. You used 50% for your demand factor but I thought automated was 70%? Just wanted to make sure I was doing it right. So 174x.7=121.8amps
Thank you for all that you do for the trade and community. Can you share with us how to calculate the feeder for multiple, different types of welders and cutting equipment on the same feeder? For example, 6 arc welders with varying duty cycles and current, 5 resistance welders with varying duty cycle and current, 3 plasma cutters, and 6 mig welders?
Good morning Ryan, just wanted to take this time to thank you for your videos. They have help me immensely. I will be taking my journeyman license test here in Montana within the next month. What study material do you recommend for me to purchase so I can pass the test? Maybe you should think about producing your own study aids. Just a thought. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Have a blessed day.
Great Video Ryan! but i have a question, how would you go about on selecting the overcurrent protection for the feeder serving multiple arc welders on the more than one welder example? do you only have to meet 630.12 (B) or both (A) and (B)? thanks
Love your channel, I have a question for you we are about to do a parking garage, boss says use set screw connectors for emt and regular junction boxes, when I look in code book about damp locations I get confused , are you allowed to use regular junction boxes and set screw connectors. Thanks
Hey Ryan, when deciding to use the next size up rule when sizing ocpd, what would the cutoff be for "not corresponding" with a standard size? ie would I jump up a size when my current is 125.1?
I got a little lost on the overcurrent example, so I'm hoping you can help me. The arc welder example has 6 welders on one circuit and you add all of the welders' current requirements together per the code formula to get 204A. So, if you're required to provide overcurrent protection for the welders and overcurrent protection for the conductors, how does the breaker for the entire circuit provide overcurrent protection for each welder? In other words, let's say the breaker size for all of the welders is 200A and one welder is only 78A, how is that 200A breaker providing overcurrent protection when only one welder is in use?
Ummm ok then... they made that so much harder then it needed to be, every welder I have wired up has had a 50amp plug on it with the maximum current being 45 amps, so I would just run #6 copper and put it on a 50amp breaker and it works fine... now I understand that this may be for factory type installations but I still think they made to way to complicated, but that's just my opinion
That was very interesting! I’ve always wondered how the code treats machines with such low duty cycles. I *assume*, and you know what they say about that, that if a welder is cord and plug connected, the OCPD must not exceed the rating of the receptacle, and the minimum conductor size would be based on the standard ampacity rules. After all, anything might end up plugged in to that socket in the future...
I do a lot of power plant controls engineering...not new stuff but interfacing new with old. I'll never run out of work for sure. But, I've been pigeon-holed and feel like I'm on misfit island. I enjoy what I do and it is a necessary niche. But, it is a damned weird feeling to be the "go to" guy for legacy things. But, the legacy things are still the things that make things work. The things that work do not change just because the code changes. Arrggg. Love it and hate it too.
I enjoy your vids and have a question: Sorta long one but here goes. I am an electrical engineer that recently(6 years ago) replaced the forced hot-air duct work in my mother's basement(dirt floor at the furthest extents). When I grabbed the things(ducts), I got a very unpleasant shock. So, I measured it furnace duct to earth(where my butt was) and it was about 48 VAC. I shut the mains down to my mom's house...no change. I measure voltage difference from pole 6 AWG wire grounding rod and worked out from there. 2V at pole and 90V at backyard flower bed(referenced from Mom's neutral with mains off) The folks next door built a new garage and as an engineer I sorta figured they bonded the service at the new garage and also drove a ground rod(required I think for a building 100' away from whatever that was servicing it...rod, not bond). They should not have, IMO. I should never measure 90V from the tulips to the neutral of anything. Problem is is this: I complained to 3 entities: 1) Utility. Response: Not their concern. I understand and am fine with that. 2) Next door home owner. Response: No Clue. but here is the contact info for the electrician. 3) Contacted the electrician. Response: A bunch of foul language and demand for $$$ for any work involved. All that said, there is still the same 90V from neighbor's tulips to Mom's neutral. No one outside feels it and the only detrimental real effect is maybe a very dry sill-plate on a very old house. But, I went there last week to change furnace filters and got the same old buzz I got 6 years ago. Any thoughts. Would local AHJ even listen? I doubt it. BTW, how did I measure this? Mains off in Moms house (should not make difference), an extension cord and a multi-meter with one lead on neutral and the other in the soil. 90VAC at nearest tulip. Sorry for so many words.
is there a sprinkler system, or garden lights?? or maybe you have a floating neutral in your mom's house? Is the live-to-neutral voltage stable and at a sensible value around the house, and no voltage diff between ground and neutral? Is there any GFCI protection in that house?
@@wim0104 No. Volts are pretty consistent summer or winter. NH here. There is no particular danger to anyone outside as the difference is minimal...fence to ground and the like. But, when you're grabbing furnace ducts and your butt is in soil, that is when you feel the 'difference' Odd situation. Local potentials are low in a situation like this. Drives me nuts.
at your 90V ground-to-neutral measurement, you should also check ground-to-live, and neutral-to-live. remember there's split phase service at the house and mix-ups could expose you to 240V. So don't be sitting/kneeling in wet dirt. I think your neutral might have some bite in it.
@@wim0104 Sorta makes sense. Voltage being 90V if the guy bonded the remote neutral garage to ground rod. The garage and where I measured volts in soil is about 1/10th distant give or take. Not enough current to kill but enough voltage to piss me off when I touch furnace duct work. Not all, in fact, very few electricians are geniuses. I'm not a genius but I resent the zap from a poorly wired system...took me a while to figure out what the hell was going on.
Question do you think it would be acceptable to power a sub panel with a gfci breaker then pull ac and dryer off that panel? Would that satisfy both being on a gfci in 2020 code?
It is an interesting dichotomy, as an electrical engineer, the electrician is compelled to do what I tell them to do(via drawings, etc.). As an electrical engineer, I cannot do(wire) what I dictate. So weird. The fun stuff is meeting in the middle and getting things to work. Getting injured? Not interested in that at all for any party. Again sort of a weird marriage.
Great job! When I have a plan review or a question on welders, because we deal with them so little I slow way down and go through the steps as you have have demonstrated! Again great job!!
Your channel is awesome. Greetings from Lima, Peru
Thank you for all the videos you do and post. So helpful on my journey to masters test. From houston, tx 🤘🤘🤘🤘
Thanks for explaining this in a thorough and logical manner. People who know the least often seem to post the most technical content videos, with the best information coming from competent comments. You are a refreshing exception to that pattern.
Thanks for covering this topic. I took my ID Master's recently and there were a few questions on this topic that I am pretty sure I bombed royally. This was very helpful. Much appreciated.
Bro. You cover every topic. Really appreciated..👍
This is a great video. I love the way you can explain things. I would like to make 2 points. 1.) At 14:28 as you were reading Item 1 you said 75 amps not 70 as noted in the code. It is an easy error. 75 is a much more common number than 70 in the book and all the stuff that is made for electrical stuff. I am also older and hard of hearing so I might have it wrong. 2.) I think you should note that this discussion is about the wires and overcurrent devices that supply electricity to the welders discussed and has nothing to do with the wires that come from the welder and feed "the work" or what is to be welded. There is an old term in welding for the return lead - "The Ground." Some places and teachers are trying to slowly change the term to the "Return Lead." Welding is so interesting because you are playing with high amperages and lower voltages derived from 208/220/440 or many other line voltages and yet the person doing the welding is in contact with electricity. I have had my hands around the electrode to steady it ("protected" by the leather gloves and the flux coating on the electrode) while leaning on the metal to be welded and with my feet in contact with the earth and never a shock. I love wiring and welding. They are both very complex.
Quick question probably just a easy mistake. You were talking about resistance welder and the example was an automated welder at 174 amp. You used 50% for your demand factor but I thought automated was 70%? Just wanted to make sure I was doing it right. So 174x.7=121.8amps
I believe it was supposed to be 70 demand factor I had the same question
Thanks, Ryan. Very well explained. Good job.
Great video Ryan, as usual, clear and very useful. Thanks. It helps a lot.
Thank you for all that you do for the trade and community. Can you share with us how to calculate the feeder for multiple, different types of welders and cutting equipment on the same feeder? For example, 6 arc welders with varying duty cycles and current, 5 resistance welders with varying duty cycle and current, 3 plasma cutters, and 6 mig welders?
didnt know you have a channel. subscribed!!!
Thanks!
Very useful. Thank you!
Good morning Ryan, just wanted to take this time to thank you for your videos. They have help me immensely. I will be taking my journeyman license test here in Montana within the next month. What study material do you recommend for me to purchase so I can pass the test? Maybe you should think about producing your own study aids. Just a thought. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Have a blessed day.
One big feeder conductor for a group of welder and how you connect them to the individual welder? Tap wire or terminal block?
When u say divide that by 3 or two u mean to use parallel conductor right?
Do you have a video on fire pumps ? Conductor sizing ?
Great Video Ryan! but i have a question, how would you go about on selecting the overcurrent protection for the feeder serving multiple arc welders on the more than one welder example? do you only have to meet 630.12 (B) or both (A) and (B)?
thanks
on 4:52 how you know that is not motor generator welder ?
Love your channel, I have a question for you we are about to do a parking garage, boss says use set screw connectors for emt and regular junction boxes, when I look in code book about damp locations I get confused , are you allowed to use regular junction boxes and set screw connectors. Thanks
Hey Ryan, when deciding to use the next size up rule when sizing ocpd, what would the cutoff be for "not corresponding" with a standard size? ie would I jump up a size when my current is 125.1?
I got a little lost on the overcurrent example, so I'm hoping you can help me. The arc welder example has 6 welders on one circuit and you add all of the welders' current requirements together per the code formula to get 204A. So, if you're required to provide overcurrent protection for the welders and overcurrent protection for the conductors, how does the breaker for the entire circuit provide overcurrent protection for each welder? In other words, let's say the breaker size for all of the welders is 200A and one welder is only 78A, how is that 200A breaker providing overcurrent protection when only one welder is in use?
Ummm ok then... they made that so much harder then it needed to be, every welder I have wired up has had a 50amp plug on it with the maximum current being 45 amps, so I would just run #6 copper and put it on a 50amp breaker and it works fine... now I understand that this may be for factory type installations but I still think they made to way to complicated, but that's just my opinion
That was very interesting! I’ve always wondered how the code treats machines with such low duty cycles. I *assume*, and you know what they say about that, that if a welder is cord and plug connected, the OCPD must not exceed the rating of the receptacle, and the minimum conductor size would be based on the standard ampacity rules. After all, anything might end up plugged in to that socket in the future...
Nope, the receptacle, conductor, and OCPD rules are totally different.
I do a lot of power plant controls engineering...not new stuff but interfacing new with old. I'll never run out of work for sure. But, I've been pigeon-holed and feel like I'm on misfit island. I enjoy what I do and it is a necessary niche. But, it is a damned weird feeling to be the "go to" guy for legacy things. But, the legacy things are still the things that make things work. The things that work do not change just because the code changes. Arrggg. Love it and hate it too.
I enjoy your vids and have a question: Sorta long one but here goes.
I am an electrical engineer that recently(6 years ago) replaced the forced hot-air duct work in my mother's basement(dirt floor at the furthest extents). When I grabbed the things(ducts), I got a very unpleasant shock. So, I measured it furnace duct to earth(where my butt was) and it was about 48 VAC. I shut the mains down to my mom's house...no change. I measure voltage difference from pole 6 AWG wire grounding rod and worked out from there. 2V at pole and 90V at backyard flower bed(referenced from Mom's neutral with mains off) The folks next door built a new garage and as an engineer I sorta figured they bonded the service at the new garage and also drove a ground rod(required I think for a building 100' away from whatever that was servicing it...rod, not bond). They should not have, IMO. I should never measure 90V from the tulips to the neutral of anything. Problem is is this: I complained to 3 entities: 1) Utility. Response: Not their concern. I understand and am fine with that. 2) Next door home owner. Response: No Clue. but here is the contact info for the electrician. 3) Contacted the electrician. Response: A bunch of foul language and demand for $$$ for any work involved. All that said, there is still the same 90V from neighbor's tulips to Mom's neutral. No one outside feels it and the only detrimental real effect is maybe a very dry sill-plate on a very old house. But, I went there last week to change furnace filters and got the same old buzz I got 6 years ago. Any thoughts. Would local AHJ even listen? I doubt it.
BTW, how did I measure this? Mains off in Moms house (should not make difference), an extension cord and a multi-meter with one lead on neutral and the other in the soil. 90VAC at nearest tulip. Sorry for so many words.
is there a sprinkler system, or garden lights?? or maybe you have a floating neutral in your mom's house? Is the live-to-neutral voltage stable and at a sensible value around the house, and no voltage diff between ground and neutral? Is there any GFCI protection in that house?
@@wim0104 No. Volts are pretty consistent summer or winter. NH here. There is no particular danger to anyone outside as the difference is minimal...fence to ground and the like. But, when you're grabbing furnace ducts and your butt is in soil, that is when you feel the 'difference' Odd situation. Local potentials are low in a situation like this. Drives me nuts.
at your 90V ground-to-neutral measurement, you should also check ground-to-live, and neutral-to-live. remember there's split phase service at the house and mix-ups could expose you to 240V. So don't be sitting/kneeling in wet dirt. I think your neutral might have some bite in it.
also measure in your service panel: neutral to each leg/phase. And is the voltage stable, or does it move with changing loads?
@@wim0104 Sorta makes sense. Voltage being 90V if the guy bonded the remote neutral garage to ground rod. The garage and where I measured volts in soil is about 1/10th distant give or take. Not enough current to kill but enough voltage to piss me off when I touch furnace duct work. Not all, in fact, very few electricians are geniuses. I'm not a genius but I resent the zap from a poorly wired system...took me a while to figure out what the hell was going on.
Question! Do you think it is acceptable to use these methods to calculate the output conductors of a resistance welder?
Yay! Thank you so much!
Question do you think it would be acceptable to power a sub panel with a gfci breaker then pull ac and dryer off that panel? Would that satisfy both being on a gfci in 2020 code?
Absolutely!
@@RyanJacksonElectrical thank you
there's no easy add-on in-rush current gizmos? and who designed that arc welder to be single phase!?
There isn't...until you invent it. :D
It is an interesting dichotomy, as an electrical engineer, the electrician is compelled to do what I tell them to do(via drawings, etc.). As an electrical engineer, I cannot do(wire) what I dictate. So weird. The fun stuff is meeting in the middle and getting things to work. Getting injured? Not interested in that at all for any party. Again sort of a weird marriage.