Construction Adhesive Test - 3M 5200, PL Fast Grab, DAP DynaGrip, and more
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2017
- Wow! I would not have guest Construction Adhesives were this strong. We test 3M 5200, PL Fast Grab, DAP GynaGrip, PL Premium, Solar Seal, and DAP Alex Plus for gluing Cedar to Steel when both are painted with Coal Tar Epoxy.
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Hell yeah man. This is how ya do a comparison! Best I’ve seen on RUclips for anything. Real science. Real money. Real value of my time. Thank you.
I love the way you tested and the different ways you offered the statistics. The price per pound was cool! Nice information!
Thank you for posting so often. Great work you guys are doing
Hands down, this is the best review I've ever seen, including all tech reviews that I enjoy a lot. We have a clear winner here ;) Thanks
I get so stoked when a new vid comes up. Can’t wait to see this baby sail!!!
i work with thick adhesives out of tubes much the same as you were complaining about Doug, i sit mine in an arrangement in front of 21kw portable diesel heater and collect as i need them. Works a treat.
Awesome job! Great to see how they compared.
This is backyard science at it's best. You come up with the most interesting ideas to test products.
A caulking hot box works well, used it in construction caulking in the cold winter months. Nothing but a insulated metal box with a light bulb.
3m 5200 all they way!! We use that stuff on our oyster boats down here in Galveston bay, Texas.
Awesome review... exactly what I needed! Thank you!!
Thanks Doug !! Some real useful info you shared with us. Thanks👍👍
5200 is amazing and yes, some people use it on their portholes, but its not a silicone, it will leak around the window, it doesnt seal well. Also a lot of boat owners break their windows when they try to get them out cause their leaking and the 5200 wont let go lol. Silicone has its place and adhesive has its place, just gotta chose wisely for each situation. Interesting test though, thanks Doug, love what youre doing and your approach to life!
Great video and very educational, its always nice to see actual "scientific" tests than just trusting a manufacturers label :D
Yeah, the 5200 is great stuff, I used it to adhere the gunwales to a 15ft fiberglass skiff that I built a several years ago, it's in a location where there's a decent amount of flexing between the two surfaces and it's held up wonderfully, one of the best features about it is that it cures with exposure to moisture which is the main difference between it and most “Construction Adhesive” type of products that tend to fail in a wet environment if they don't get sufficient time to cure.
I've worked in shipyards for most of my adult life. Part of that time was working with large encapsulated lifeboats employed on oil rigs and cruise ships. In on instance we were replacing lowering/release hooks that had 3ftx1.5ft seal plates to keep water out. We removed all hardware and disconnected the hooks and hooked them up to a gantry crane. We lifted the from of a 99 person lifeboat out of its cradle on 5200 alone. We had to lower it back down into the cradle, get out the rosebud torch and heat it while wedging and lifting. Repeated the process 36 times over 2 weeks. It sucked. 5200 is incredible stuff. Only use it if it's going to be 99% permanent. Otherwise use 4200.
I thought it was a good method for testing sheer strength. Very helpful. The dap caulking fast dry & Dyno have been really good for interior sealing. The loctites I've found that sometimes a spritz of water can really increase strength and dry time. (Polyurethanes). Great video!
5200 or Sikaflex urethanes, or a two part polysulfide, are really the only choices for marine structural elements that flex. Just make sure you don't have to remove it... I worked for Cougar Marine back in the 70's and had to pull the deck off a 40" unlimited wooden offshore boat that was Sikaflex-ed on, problem was it flexed too much in competition -- but never let go anywhere. We ended up having to cut a bit off the top of the stringers as we couldn't cut the Sikaflex with any tool we had, they just bounced.
As I recall 5200 has two versions the higher strength one takes 48 hours to cure, the other one takes 24.
I had very bad luck with silicones; when it stuck it stuck very well, but there were many times where part of the seam didn't stick at all. Everything would be clean and dry, we figured it might be due to the silicone being very sensitive to being exposed to air, if you missed the "window" it wouldn't bond.
BTW, I think you should have removed the paint first...
I work in Special Effects and custom fabrication, I've vetted many, many adhesives. The one that has changed the game is methacrylate. Lord, 3M, and Plexus have their own lines, mostly for the automotive industry. You want one formulated to bond the two materials you are trying to bond, but several work for a broad range. My personal favorite is Plexus MA300. They're available in 50ml, and 500ml dual syringes. I suggest you bite the bullet on cost for at least the most important applications.
When you're talking adhesives, it's important to note the material specifically. Silicone is not technically an adhesive, unless you're gluing silicone or glass (silica). It does work well under certain circumstances. Most construction adhesive is polyurethane, and of course we can't forget epoxies. If you're trying to glue to metal, nothing beats methacrylate. Smells like a nail salon (acrylic) and you can try some general purpose stuff for a decent price, Lowes sells "Locktite Plastic Welder Epoxy" which isn't epoxy at all, it's methacrylate. Good luck!
@@josephjohn7209 here I thought I was alone in the world (loving to glue shit together) and now I realize I'm not alone! : )
Great advice! I especially appreciate your mention of the active ingredient... so important. I'm saving your comment and recommendation in my notes for further reference.
The dash in your truck is a great place to keep the adhesive nice and warm and flowing. That's where I have always kept it. PS subfloor adhesive is the strongest and most fluid.
Nice quick overview of the strength given a short cure time. Also, impressive that the coal tar failed first on the DAP and the 8X locline product. One other issue is cure times. Cure times can be quite long without moisture that is needed to continue to cure the adhesives. That's why when using polyurethane adhesives on metal, they tell you to pre-wet the surfaces to be mated. Wood doesn't need the pre-wetting because they hold some inherent moisture content. Thanks for doing the test!
short cure time? He gave 2 weeks...
What a fun test! Thanks for the info and the entertainment!
Excellent test guys!
Thank you for doing these tests so we don't have to! Much appreciated.
Loving the Aussie insight :)
I would glue the space shuttle together with 3M 5200, that shit is super strong and remains flexible!
I didn't see the standard construction adhesive we used to prevent squeaks when we would install floor decking over the joists, and did you try clear silicone, we used it for gluing stainless corners on cabinetry.
I've got one that's DEFINITELY worth trying. It's called Vulkem and home depot doesn't have it, but lowes does. This stuff is serious. Around here in florida we use it to seal in hurricane proof windows. I have also used it to fix tires and glue magnets back into a lawnmower starter motor in a pinch. fairly cheap for how strong it seems to be. I think it's worth trying on your test rig!
an experimental test that can be seen from a poor perspective
I respect you!
Thanks to you, I appreciate you letting me know what the product is of good quality.=^.&=~...
Damn Shlomo you really laid this out nicely.
GE silicone 2 would be an interesting caulk to try. It holds glass incredibly well. It’s quite flexible and cheap enough too.
I am surprised you had an issue with the PL 3x, it had to be an issue with not curing all the way. I messed up on a project once with that stuff and it was horrible trying to undo it... I had to take pry bars to get the wood up. All in all a good test for your application though, thank you for some great videos!
New Subscriber!! Great video!! Love your project and your attitude towards it!! Looking forward to seeing more.
For what it is worth, I use a lot of PL Premium in wood construction, and I have had some tubes that are much thicker and harder to get out than others - literally broke the caulking gun.
I personally think it is a shelf life thing. Since I found that, I have been buying my PL from retailers that deal with more volume, and therefore the time on the shelf is much less. Haven't had a problem since. That may be a factor with the PL Fast Grab that you used, just a guess.
Cheers!!
Hey Doug have your thought about making pockets to sit the strips in ? Longer at the top so the strip slides into the top then slides into.the bottom.
No glue required, has some flex and other than more welding, but no glue.
63H30 H8 ...that’s my choice, except with a tighter fit, with one key board bolted in the center of the wall that locks them all in place...plus the sound of creaking boards when you’re moored in the lagoon...priceless.
I am wondering if the failure at the wood/adhesive interface might be partly due to the oil in the cedar. I have made furniture from it and found that polyurethane varnish would not dry on it due to that. Maybe some of the adhesives were more soluble with the oil.
Another great test!
Increasing the area on the wood but cutting shallow groves perhaps on a diagonal might help in the holding power of the flexible adhesives? Thanks for the video.
Just watched an old one from April here is some info that might help. Tomas and Betts make plastic ty-wraps with metal locking tabs, try pulling one of them apart... no go. Hope this might help, I love your videos, attitudes and strengths.... keep on going please.
Nice static testing. Any way that you could do live dynamic testing of your winners? Gluing some weighted samples to the bottom of the gang plank or the inside trunk of your car comes to mind.
Does the width of the adhesive have anything to do with it's holding power? For instance, if you have a wide joint in woodworking, wood glue doesn't bond well. You have to have a tight fitting. I don't know if construction adhesive behaves the same way, but I wonder what a thinner bead would do, brining the mating surfaces closer together.
Thanks for your clips
I've come a cross with some really nice 3M products, but they have a huge selection and you'd need to know witch product to choose.
Thanks for this research! Very helpful!
keep up the good work . windshield guys have heaters that are made to heat up tubes. if you go down that road .
Take a look at Loctite polyurethane roof and flash sealant. I glued pickup box side to bed with this. I also used it to install windshields and fix workboots with detached soles. I have been wearing them daily for over a year with no de-lamination. Lots of flex though.
Hey Doug, it sounds like that PL8X is a Medium or High Viscosity type of caulk. They make special caulk guns and caulk warmers for High Viscosity caulking that aren't too expensive, but make the job MUCH easier! Back in the day when I used to install auto windshields we used a 3M high viscosity windshield caulk that would break a normal gun.
However, once you got the right gun and warmed the tubes up on the dashboard heaters for a few minutes, it would do a 100% better job than the other options, and paid for the more expensive tools almost immediately. Thought you might want to know before you completely dismiss that PL8X.
The heat also promotes accelerated chemical reaction
Plus, a Makita 18v caulk gun squeezes out a beautiful consistent bead no matter what your using.
This!
@@euandykes So it will harden?
@@reyjedi3586 faster
Hi Doug, at Tollycraft Yachts we used Sikaflex to hold our teak strips to the marine plywood to the yacht deck surfaces, ya know where you see the 'seams' between each piece? We also used the same product to fill that gap between each piece. I still, after 20 years, have a small piece of a deck on my front porch right now and it's as solid as a rock. Some of that stuff will not let you down :--)))
Sikaflex ist best
Surprised you didn't test a Sikaflex product. Very good stuff and very popular here in Australia for automotive and marine applications.
Fitzy Holden yeah i wondered myself, maybe not as popular over in the states
Their urithane products are some of the most sticky and strong I've ever encountered and survive for years and years of abuse.
They would loose out on price though, they are a premium product. Like the 3M one. Good if it /has/ to work, but maybe not the best $AU/Kg. :)
Fitzy Holden popular in Canada as well as it can handle temperature flux well
I had suggested GE silicone. I am always impressed by its strength, but it is cheaper than sikaflex.
Yeah they are the experts, but their stuff costs a bomb.
I used 3M 5200 to seal all of the lenses in my Nemo 200 underwater camera housings. Never had a single customer complaint. It keeps out the water yet remains flexible. if you ever have to attach pvc to polyethylene use a large amount of very hot glue , the kind that comes in sticks to be used in a glue gun, although freezing will separate the bond.
Wow! Simple test, but it really shows which product doesn’t work well!
NEXT, “Best Adhesive for Concrete” (i.e. retaining wall block, retaining wall caps, tiles)
I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND SHARING YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
Thank You!
May be a little late, but 3M VHB 4950 tape. I would be curious to see how it would compare to the others. Quite pricey but it holds like crazy. i haven't been able to remove it without a bunch of razor blades. Thanks for all the videos Doug.
Hi Doug, maybe to late but here in NZ I have used Bostik Simpson MSR construction adhesive sealant its about half the price of 3M 5200 and very similar adhesion may be worth a look if its available locally for you
I use marine ware spa bond to bond composite boat hulls and it is a two part duel tube with a specialist pneumatic gun.
However to the point it is just as thick possible thicker than fast grab the way we work it is to fill a bin with boiling water and litteraly work from bin once you heat it up it flows really nicely 4 guys can apply 75 tubes in half an hour.
Have you looked at silicone. It's seals, but some are also considered an adhesive also. Some have good properties to bring to the table as mold/mildew resistant, and resistance to many other environmental conditions. Just a thought, maybe worth a strength test also?
Hey Doug I used a windscreen adhesive to rebond a gear box mount for my early Dodge, 6 years later still like new, might be something worth testing? Cheers from Sydney Australia
Sure, give them your vehicle and they can cover it with goo.
Put the 8x in a cooler with a light bulb in the top, works for me in the winter time and it gets very warm.
do you glue just one side or both sides and then glue the sides together
Can we expect that you will use a mix of products, depending on how much strength and flex is needed at any given spot?
You may have got a bunk tube of the Loctite fast grab. I use it a lot and it's not that hard to push out
Have you ever used Titebond Fast Set Polyurethane Construction Adhesive? Was looking for input on that one. The Loctite fast grab I heard was a nightmare, and you pretty much said it was too hard to pump out as well..lol
Nice review, but, quite a few of these were not cured. But great info none the less. Thank you.
What's the temperature on the tube say if it's under 50 degrees you got to warm it up
Very interesting test and just love your method. But just wondering why you coated the wood with cold tar? I had a house that had a comfort floor. It had a concrete foundation with wooden screes settled in tar. I tried to remove those buggers 50 years after the house was built and gave up. But you are not setting the wood directly to the tar, but to adhesive. If your best adhesive is failing at the tar on the wood, then remove that layer of tar. Perhaps you should test that.
Hey, cool video man really enjoyed it !!
Can I detach teo bricks that have 3x adhesive in between them without damaging them? I made a big mistake.
You should also consider the surface area per pound. Guessing from the video that the test parts are 1 1/2 x 4 ish so over a 5 ft piece, that would be almost a ton of holding power for the strongest stuff, correct?
I have worked on boats my whole life and have learned a couple of things. 1. 3M 5200 is an adhesive not a sealant it hardens over a very short time period and loses its seal. Its 3M cousin 4200 is a sealant. Curious why your applying the coal tar first, usually with an adhesive you don't want to adhere to a finish that will fail before the sealant.
Have you considered using the 3M double sided tape that manufacturers use on trailers with screwless exteriors? Using a liquid adhesive is great but it allows for too many possible problems. I forget the name of the tape but I order in all my trailers now with screwless exteriors. I live in northwest Indiana so my trailers see different climates, sometimes every day. The tape does an excellent job with thermal expansion and contraction as well as flexing while on the road. I suggest you look into it.
All I’m looking for is a great liquid nails that I wanna put 2x4 on a painted cement wall and to hang at least 15 wrestling belts. They weigh about 2-3 kilos each. Which u recommend for that job?
Yo do realize they make these things, called drills, where a bit makes a hole into materials like cement, and then you can attach things? If you want to attach it to a cement wall you would get better adhesion by stripping the paint off first.
This was great! Thank you
3M is good stuff!
Can't seem to find GE Iron Grip anywhere near me (Used it to install 2600 thin brick) so I grabbed a tube of this to finish the job. After a few minutes of holding the piece and even pulling it off and letting the glue get tacky I gave up. LN is good as an addition to mechanically fastening but not alone.
COOL VIDEO!!!what about mirror mastic???????????
Finally an American test. Thought I’d have to order from the UK.
You could cut the tube and putty knife the 8x if you’re using a whole tube.
Hi Doug. I’m a British house builder. I know your probably inundated with suggestions for other adhesives, but I’m going to throw one more at you..... For a good super flexible very strong adhesive try a low modulus sanitary sealant. Over here we use a product by Dow Corning. £3.99 a tube and sticks just as well as the premium adhesives. Only down side is it will not work at all if either surface is wet when it is applied. Maybe a problem on a boat? Once cured water is not a problem thou. Good luck and keep the videos coming .....
Isn't possible that some glues somehow weakened the bond between the tar and the wood (solvent seeping through or somethin'...) ?
I have to caulk wood to metal ---do you think DAP DYNA GRIP HEAVYDUTY IS THE BEST ? THANK YOU --I have to glue 2x2 lumber to metal frame on a mobile home and pull plastic frame to frame to hold insulation -THANKS
We have been using the PL 3X for gluing our furring strips to metal. Both are painted. And it's been working great. A day later any braces come off and 2 days later it's like it's bolted on.
I've got one of the dewalt 20v caulk guns if you want to borrow it.
Hi Doug great Vid man. Garry from Darwin Australia here, building a Roberts 370E Yacht in steel. Wonder if Luke/you are familiar with FixTech FS200 an Aussie product? It's a highly flexible adhesive sealant made for Acrylic and Polycarbonate windows. Would love to know if Luke has used it and if so what he thinks of it. I just installed 11 Acrylic windows in my pilot house with the stuff and manufacturer reckons it's hard to beat because of it's flexibility quality, no fixings required! Bye the way, I have been saying "another two years" for the past two years also :-)
for the 8x rather than boiling water or a microwave couldn't you just put it in an over for a few minutes to soften it up?
which bonds to medium size stones?
Just gots to do one more test with the best of the lot under wet conditions at a slightly elevated temp like you will surely encounter.
2:40 Yes! That is the scientific way of doing it. In a lab you would have some fancy equipment and you should test multiple "equal" samples to be sure that the sample is not defective. But other than that it is the same.
the brown one would be similar to a fudgee-o cookie :) do you wonder what the tests would have been like if you did not paint the wood?
I believe from what you tested that NPC Solar Seal #900 is the best but it takes approx 7 days to fully cure, but I would like to see ya try out TiteBond Ultimate MP, ChemLink NovaLink, CP1, MasterSeal NP1, Geocel 2300 & Lexel. I'm a roofer and use all these plus a couple others also depending what I'm wanting to accomplish.
Ya know I used my supply of solar seal in the cargo hold to glue in the foam board. Really like that stuff, not so much for it's adhesive quality, but for it's flexibility even after months. And while these test are interesting I really only test stuff that I'm going to use on the boat. Maybe you are destine to be the RUclips roofing material tester. It would have saved me some time. :)
Did you try sikaflex?
What about automotive urethane windshield adhesive? I buy it in small quantities for $6 a tube. It will exceed the 5200.
It'll blow everything outta the water, has lots of flex and CRAZY shear strength!
hi Doug! i was wondering if you are considering the need for removal of the wood. In case you need to fix the hull or something. Welding the outside or even needing to recoat the protective paint inside the ship would be a real pain!
Others have brought that up, and it's way we are welding on studs. But we'll glue where we miss a stud or in the corners.
Oh, nice! that makes sense! :) is it going to be built like a wall with insulation all around the interior? it is getting a lot fancier than i pictured it! hahahahahah
Thank you, thank you, thank you 🙏
Great test. For adhesive, my money would be on the 5200 - strong and flexible. Still, mechanical fasteners are the tried and true method.
A good source for bulk caulking in Tulsa is Silicone Specialty
it's a pity you didn't test sikaflex 227 i'm sure it would be right up the top on both strength and flexibility. But only slightly less expensive than 5200.
whens our next dose of the SV seeker coming :)
but whats their resistance to mold
Oh yeah 5200 is just as versatile as JB weld in my book, i've beaten on it with a sledehammer before and the wood it was attached to broke first, really impact resistant stuff.
Can 3M 5200 be used for car rubber bushing bonding...it needs to bond rubber to rubber....since the rubber bushing is torn...
If you can get replacements, I'd think you'd be better off making a silicone mold and casting a new one.
You can microwave metal. I do it when fitting bearings. Just wrap it up in soaking wet towels. The water soaks up the microwaves and whatever's wrapped up in there will be 100 degrees C
Cool Last time I tried it was 30+ years ago and sparks when flying. :)
In fact you can microwave metal no problem as long as it hasn't got any sharp edges.
If you want to see a cool, contained lightning show, microwave a cd or a dvd. It takes 3 seconds and then sparks migrate in tracks from the edge to the middle in the foil layer, and you can see it happen slowly. Takes a second or two. The pattern created is quite neat. Hasn't damaged a microwave yet for me, I think because it is so fast. Done it many times. Used hundreds of them as lizard scales on a parade float once.
I am really wonder how Sikaflex 221 would do. That stuff is used in the RV industry and people are using it to mount wood strips to the floors of van and using that instead of screwing into the metal. Also it's being used to mount solar panels on to the tops of RVs and van's.
I was Just curious if you had looked at Liquid Nail's product called FUZE*IT. I have used it with great success attaching non structural plywood to interior Z bracing on steel building sidewalls. For overhead or for attaching cleats, I've found Teks Self-Tapping/Self-Drilling winged screws work out better and faster than adhesive does for me.
YET ANOTHER FAB INTERESTING VIDEO
I don’t know what you used for the pl premium 3x test but it sure wasn’t pl 3x. At 4:25 your test piece said pl300 right on the wood and you can clearly see another block that says pl3x on it. Also pl3x is beige not white. I think you must have used pl375 because that is white and it never dries either. I hate it!
Pl premium 3x is awesome though.