Why You Don't Need Thunderbolt For Professional Audio
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2022
- The subject of which data transfer protocol is most suitable for audio interfaces is an ongoing one. With computer technology in a constant state of change, it can be difficult to predict which format will be permanently adopted.
For audio engineers and musicians, this can result in confusion when trying to decide which format is the most suitable for their needs, especially when factoring in the potential for future upgrades to their computer hardware.
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How many audio channels do you use in your studio at the moment?
Max. 12: Babyface Pro + Octamic II + DAV BG No. 1 😃🍀👍.
Studio: 3x Stereo for monitoring. For recording (on location only): 32 channels with 4XTC over madi to my ufx+ in the control room (and a Digiface USB for backup in the stagebox)
Thank you RME for nice explanatory video. Currently we use 28 channels with UFX+ and 2x Octamic XTC. However, I in my personal field experience, USB interface is more susceptible to DAW's DPC latency variations, than Thunderbolt or PCI-E interfaces for 32 bytes buffer size. In our studio we use these parameters for low latency audio transmission over network.
fireface UC: 8 analog ins, 4 outs and all adat I/Os. ty for this lesson)
Still rocking Fireface UC: 6x Analog In for synths/drum-machine, 1x Instrument In ,1x Vocals in, 4x Adat In for IOS audio coming from Babyface Pro connected to Ipad. Needed more I/O for external effects/mastering gear and have upgraded/added UFX+, but not setup yet.
On this note: where can I find info on how to use/daisychain 3 RME AUs simultaniously on Win10 ?! Thinking of connecting UC and BFPro to UFX+ per ADAT, but any related info much appreciated.
I have a UFX II running on USB 2.0 making great recordings. I easily recorded 14 channels at 192 Khz at 24bit with no issues. This guy is speaking the truth.
:)
Hey I am curious, when you switch to 192k, how many inputs does totalmix disable? On my UCX, it only gives me a total of 8 analog inputs to use. How are you able to get 14 channels then? I am wondering if this is a DSP limitation of the device or of the USB 2.0 bandwidth.
@@pnutbuttajellee1394 Good question. It maintains the total 12 analog inputs, but only allows 2 digital inputs and 2 outputs. It's respective to the clock.
I applaud RME team for their Rock Solid drivers. many years of use without a single audio dropout. Impressive!
I will never own another interface that is not RME. Never had a single problem with it in over 10 years, great sound, great software.
Great explanation… not that I’d disagree given my own nearly 10 years of absolutely trouble-free RME interface use. They just work - and always sound great.
Glad that you are happy Mike!
@@RMEAudio Just improve the Babyface Pro design
Totally agree - I had so many very annoying interface reliability issues until I switched to RME. Now, none in years and TotalMix gives complete flexibility after you learn it. RME fan for life.
@@tuneunleashedWhat do you feel is wrong with the design?
I was going to get "the standard" Universal Audio apollo Twin. But I am a PC user and I needed more inputs. Audient was also seducing me with the auto gain function, but... I will follow my gut feeling and go with RME UCX II and ARC! The specs, testimonials have convinced me completely.
Great video!! I was working during 10 years with my FF400 Firewire under extreme conditions (such as dust, extreme hot, vibrations in festivals and stages) and it never let me down. But I had some problem when trying to find laptops with proper firewire interface. Complementary to this issue related to the protocol interface, it is the great quality firmware that you supply with your interfaces. I have other audio interfaces and I know what I am talking about... And this video it is perfect to explain in a proper way what I was trying to explain to many friends without technical background. Thanks RME!! Just waiting to buy the next one.
The babyface pro FS has by far been the best music/audio decision I have EVER made!!! This thing blows all the different stacks of interfaces I have previously bought of the water! It shows up to work, reliably, every-single-time! Thank you RME!
My Fireface UC has been working flawlessly for 12 years now, still going great with every modern computer that I upgraded to in the meanwhile. TotalMix remains useful and effective all along as well. Thank you!!!
Thank you for explaining!
Yes, my Clarett 8PreX from Focusrite didn't manage the low latencies of my Fireface 802 even though it was using Thunderbolt 2. The drivers sucked and Focusrite didn't really care about that product line too much in regards to driver updates.
Happy RME-customer now! And totally fascinated about my USB-interface being faster than the Thunderbolt one from before :D
Thanks for the great explanation! I'm a very happy UFX II owner and constantly brag about the reliability and feature set to my fellow Windows-based studio engineers. Thanks for being one of the few companies that recognizes that PCs belong in the studio too.
I've been using a Fireface 802 since 2018 and it rocks solid. Very well video. It makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for this video. As someone who was just recently in the market for a new interface, I was very curious about this and didn’t find an answer at the time.
Great explanation! Sounds like this was a lesson learned after RME's earlier adoption of (now obsolete) firewire. USB 2.0 appears to have a functional longevity similar to MIDI. Thankfully, my old Fireface 800 also has SPDIF and ADAT outputs for workaround connectivity. Better still, these outputs can be used to link the old FF800 to RME's latest multichannel audio interfaces (i.e. UCX II).
RME for the win !Thanks for bringing some much needed truth in this over hyped market. You guys rock!
Thanks Vincent :)
RME has perfected their devices and software so much in my recent upgrade I stuck with RME 2.0 and don't regret it at all. Latency is still superb, rock solid stability and harmonic bliss. It's just that good. Don't buy into the 3.0 and/or thunderbolt nonsense for audio. These products are the best there is
Thanks for a video. I still enjoy my HDSP 9652 since 2003, FF800 since 2007 and ADI2 Pro since 2016 ... my next step in near future is Madiface under USB2...all these card are still running totaly 100% ... I cannot say, how am I thankfull for your incredible products!!! Whish you all the best. Tomas.
Hey Tomas, thank you for your support!
Wow. Thank you for clarifiyng it! Over 3 years I am with my trusty babyface pro, and it is awesome piece of gear!
I have to say my babyface pro has been the most reliable bit of electronics I have ever owned. Not a single drop out, crash glitch, pop or accidental full volume in 4 years. It is honestly the only usb device I have ever owned that has connected and worked first time 100 percent of connections made, really great stuff. Sounds great, and hope to use for years to come.
Thank you, this actually cleared up a lot of the questions that were at the back of my head.
Glad we can help out!
Thank you for the clear explanation on the USB 2.0 standard and how it applies to DAW’s. USB 3.0 does have an advantage over USB 2.0 because while 2.0 is limited to 500 mA and 3.0 Is limited to 900 mA. USB 3.x Is better suited for bus powered mobile audio devices. Also there are speed differences between 3.0, 3.1 gen 1 and USB 3.1 and 3.2 gen 2, But all I care about is the stability of the drivers and the quality of the DAC,s. In my opinion the advantages thunderbolt three and four devices offer is in video capture but not audio as far as my use. Thank you for the video
You’re welcome :)
My FF 800 has served me very well, my new 802 is jaw dropping! Love that steady clock!!
I build my DAW computers around my FF800 - which means my Firewire card is perhaps the most important component of the PC for me. The fact is that for us, recording acoustic duo songs, the FF800 is and always has been insane overkill, with us using less than 10% of it's functionality.
I encourage everyone to upgrade to the latest thunderbolt and USB 3.0 based interfaces so the second hand market gets flooded with perfectly sound and reliable RME gear for me to buy ! :)
Interesting strategy ;)
Agreed. Still rocking both my FF800 & UFX to this day. They have yet to fail me and are more stable than most other interfaces out there given their age.
Sadly enough, i can't use my FireWire audio interface anymore. Drivers weren't supported anymore and i didn't want to go USB again since i was looking for a new interface anyway. So i thought more of it like: Buy now with the new standard (Thunderbolt 3/USB-C) and hopefully get as long as possibly can out of that port!
If you're looking into RME audio interfaces at the moment this is probably the best way to get one... buy a firewire card into your computer and get a used firewire interface.
Due to heavy inflation and shortage of electronics the only way to get for example a Babyface Pro FS at the moment seems to be buying a used one for more of the price than what a new one would have cost not even a year ago - not very alluring.
@@stefanbregenzer I personally was looking into RME options a couple of years ago, but now i have an Apollo twin X. I'm looking to buy an x8. But for now, the twin X will do as it is thunderbolt 3 and supported greatly with my Mac Pro and Macbook Air.
I think it's the software - the drivers - that makes a big difference as much as the protocol and that's where RME really shines, at least in my experience with Windows 10/64. Though USB 2.0 seems perfectly fine, I'll stick with my RME PCIe card that I've had for 10 years already. Thanks!
Still rocking my UFX. Love RME!
Finalmente um vídeo sensacional mostrando isso. Fã da RME!
Dá-lhe BR
I feel like i have to show this math once a month on a facebook thread of a new interface. I remember when Steinberg announced the URxxC series and all of the comments were about the usb3. In a livestream Q&A i asked them what's the benefit of USB3 over 2. Thy couldn't response and turned it to "USB C connector is becoming standard" without talking about USB3. It's really just marketing at this point....
Had a FF800 in the studio and for bigger (20ch) recording sessions and a Babyface Pro for portability. Upgraded the FF800 to a UFX+ and used it in USB3 and TB mode. I see no difference in performance regarding latency and stability!
The music community needs passionate people like you that try to inform people - keep up the good work! We get a lot of questions around similar topics. Therefore we felt the need clarify some misconceptions. As we said, it's all a question of necessity.
Excellent video and long overdue.
I can't believe how much misinformation is still being spread about this topic.
Sure, USB 2.0 is technically outdated but the only improvement with USB 3.x I can think of would be a higher power limit.
I'd assume USB has got such a bad reputation when it comes to audio interfaces because most manufacturer's drivers (especially on Windows) are performing pretty bad, making extremely high buffer sizes necessary.
It's so great that you keep making great USB interfaces and don't go Thunderbolt exclusive like some of your competitors do nowadays. The integrated PCIe lanes might give a slightly better performance but getting Thunderbolt to work on a Windows PC is just another nightmare to deal with.
Thank you! Because we're building our drivers in-house, we can always assure best performance.
That’s why I’m an rme guy all the way. The drivers are superb.
Early USB interfaces SUCKED and I was guilty of this. I can't believe how good my UCXII is, I've been PCI only for so long and it was purely bc of memories of old cheap interfaces. Oops
Fireface UC beta user here. Still mixing and recording with it on my third machine after almost 13 years. RME drivers are still amongst the most reliable I‘ve ever encountered, and thus they are my first choice at all times.
UFX+ at 32 samples latency under OSX is usable mainly with TB3. USB3 in the same env. = audio drops from time to time on my iMac 2019.
With USB 3, there are often transmission problems if incompatible USB 3 chips are built into the hardware (computer, etc.). Please check which USB chipset is in your Mac. A computer can have several different USB chipsets. Then it depends to which port the interface is connected and to which chipset this port is connected. USB 2 is more suitable for audio transmission than USB 3 due to the higher certifications.
I've been using my FireFace UC since 2014 along with an ADI-2 FS that I have added just recently. Excellent combination for my home studio, both in terms of sound quality and reliability. Also latency has never been an issue.
The best interfaces, period! Thanks for all the wonderful work!
:)
What I love about thunderbolt and the usb-c connector, isn’t the bandwidth, it’s the additional power delivery. Having to use a separate dc adapter for any audio gear is just plain dumb, and totally unnecessary.
The actual connector itself is far superior as well. You can use a USB-c connector while only supporting USB 2.X data stream.
I would like to see more audio devices that get rid of the old bulky square style connector and replace it with type-c, and support the latest power delivery standards as well.
This can be done without upgrading the data stream to thunderbolt or USB v3.X, as this isn’t necessary for most devices, as the video explains.
FWIW when i bought my Babyface Pro FS in 2020 RME also sent me a USB-C cable
@@meticmusic Yea, they sent you a USB-C for the HOST side connector.
The BabyFace Pro FS still has a USB type-B connector on the *device* side.
At least it’s bus powered though, I mean that’s really nice.
But honestly, just my opinion here, all USB connectors aside from Type-C should be end of life’d.
They are not as durable, it’s more difficult to find cables for them, and the connector itself isn’t as user friendly. Type C is just mo’ better!
@@5urg3x That is happening, but it won't be overnight. It would mean millions of tons of already manufactured parts being scrapped.
Nick, USB-C is completely separate from Thunderbolt. Most USB-C interfaces are either 2.0 or 3.0.... just saying. The difference is 100% mechanical most of the time.
@@jas_bataille Yes, that's why I said "Thunderbolt _and_ the USB-C connector" - Thunderbolt originally used mini DP
The best soundcard manufacturer, have UCX for 7 years absolutely no issue with it, the drivers are incredible i dont even know i have soundcard. Also it still catch to my raising demands to what i need like 5.1. loudness level snapshots, quick config form switching from multichannel to stereo. Guys without you life be much more painfull for me. Exceptional work
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoy our work!
RME never dissapointed, good explanation, and very clear
I love my babyface pro FS and the software support. Couldn’t recommend RME enough!
Thank you, Sean!
Interesting. Thanks for explaining that
Thank you for explaining this!
:)
Love you guys, RME!
Thank you :)
Very good video - well done
when i studied music production the chief engineer in the studios told us that the advantage of thunderbolt over usb-2.0 is not the bandwidth but the communication protocol which reduces latency.
he also said but with less explanations that the future of connections in the music industries will be RJ45 connectors rather than usb at all, i can't remember exactly why.
This is the exact reason I trust RME over other companies that try to sell you on gimmicks. The only interfaces I’ll spend money on.
You're the best. I had UCX, UFX & Babyface Pro. Now I have UCX II, UFX+ & Babyface FS. Everything's fine on USB
Thank you so much for your support, Shlomo!
Currently using a lendt rme interface + 12mic to record my band and wow the drivers are good!!
Great vid!
Love u guys ❤️
:-)
Have had a original babyface since 2011. Still using it, and 0 desire or need to upgrade. Still being supported with new drivers and all, RME is the best.
I never commented on an RME video before, but I was just asking myself this question the other day...crazy coincidence. Happy UFX II owner here!
Thank you for explained!
You’re welcome :)
With the Apollo interfaces, I don’t have to change the buffer size to record vocals. Is it the same with the RME UCX II?
thank you for this explanation video
THANK YOU for making this video, I've been saying this for years, people just follow the marketing hype, "latest and greatest" even if its not benefiting them in any way.
I'm starting to itch for the FS version of the UFX II (UFX 3?) and I'm hoping it comes with AVB (or Dante option) and enough DSP to run a loopback channel without requiring the sacrifice of an input channel. And maybe enough to run an amp sim. Okay, fingers crossed!
RME know their stuff and I love it. While i can't afford a majority of their equipment, i have my prized Babyface pro FS. A Loyal fan for life.
Incredibly happy user of the UFX+ interface!
:)
That is what I try to tell people for years now... I ust about 4-6 Channel at once at the highest. Most of the time it is 2. I habe the UCXII so I can have everything connected and do not have to plug cables in an out. I love it.
I love my UCX - RME If you wanna send me a new audio interface I'll allow it :) haha. - 10/10 on every product I've used. I've seriously only been using RME for 16 years and I'm never looking elsewhere. Great job guys and great video.
@RME Audio I use a FIreface 400, and love it! It works fantastic. I do love the firewire connection, but sometimes would like to use it on a modern laptop with usb 2.0/3.0. Is there an adapter I can purchase to achieve this?
I noticed a green USB-A to USB-C cable at 4:28 in the video - does that come with the Fireface? I can't find a cable like that online, hoping you can point me in the right direction! Thank you!
Great video ! :)
Thank you!
Best Windows Driver out there, love RME 👍🏻
And the Video was uploaded the day of my birthday... is that a sign to get an RME? I am still Dreaming to have one at home, as I used to work with one on a studio, where I was working Years ago, never had any issue !!!
RME is rock solid and made with it like 6 albums in a raw !!!
Using a first gen Fireface UFX in my studio, always works flawlessly!
Once RME, always RME!
which interface do you recommend for Mac? And does it come with USB-C cable?
My problem is that USB itself is a problematic entity in both mac and PC host implementations. I do not yet own an RME interface but ALL My usb peripherals need to be unplugged and plugged back in due to host level issues in both windows and macs. I am moving to thunderbolt because it does not have this issue, either on macs or pcs. I would like to buy an RME interface that gives me the choice of USB or thunderbolt, both in one interface, at a competitive price. Will this happen? There are issues with ground loop noise with current USB hosts as well.
RME audio interface hardware is great, I will agree! However, not sure I would rely too much on USB 2.0 for low latency recording as I found that utilizing a buffer block size of 32 caused too many dropouts/crackling, etc., sometimes even at a buffer size of 64, whereas Thunderbolt devices seem more efficient while utilizing a low buffer size of 32 while recording and maintaining very minimal latency and not have to worry about dropouts and crackling. And of course, there are other variables to consider such as system CPU, core count, PCI's, etc. Your explanation of highway and speed (many channels) does not make sense in the real world for (as close to) real-time recording. I'll stick to thunderbolt thank you!
You're comparing apples to oranges. Besides involving completely different controllers you're also comparing different drivers developed by different companies for different hardware. The communication standards are not the culprit there
@@NamelessSmile I stand by my comment as I am involved in various hardware-dependent audio driver development.
@@Shred_Rocket lol that's fine. Doesn't mean you are correct, even on a fundamental level
For live use lots of synths etc, 48/128, about 10 ms of latency, usb is not doing it. Sound cards have way lower latency. 15 years of experience.
Rme hdsp 9632 for life 🔥 I’m using it since the release date and I’m am Still amazed
Brilliant. My fireface 800 and Babyface original (usb) have never let me down. RME gear is SO bloody good, well-built, great customer support and reliable…FireWire still works too
Glad you still enjoy your FF800!
So true! I've upgraded my rig a few times, just pop the firewire pci card in. Also, I remember a few years back I had a power supply go out in my FF800 and immediately got in contact with RME and they sent me a the part I needed and didn't treat me like an infant. Will always stick wtih RME.
Great video. Could someone please tell Focusrite how to write low latency drivers.
I use RME Babyface Pro FS and I happy with it. Thank you, RME
What about Intensive larger orchestral productions ??
Please can you dispel this in struggling to understand as apparently it’s better to have Thunderbolt ??
Is there a latency chart anywhere of RME performance? The Fireface was a ground breaking piece of equipment for its time and the modern RME interfaces are reportedly very low latency, but I haven't seen any official figures. In my early days of computer based recording I had a Multiface and later Fireface 800. Both were excellent. Computers weren't really capable of good low latency performance at that time, though, which is where TotalMix came in...
Most importantly, you'll never experience a drop out, and of course, the latency is excellent.
I prefer USB-C more because everything in my life is now down to one type of connector rather than higher bandwidth.
Not so much on gear that stays in the rack. But for devices I travel with, I'd prefer just a single cable for all.
Usb C is not Usb 3 or Usb 2. It’s just the connector
@@Noisa I know. But they are still using the old style big USB connector.
@@annekedebruyn7797 I just bought a usb c hub with older connection options. Or you could just buy a usb c cable. Another expense, I know, but it’s easily remedied.
@@Noisa But that's exactly my point. Everyone is moving towards one connector across the board. I don't mind USB2.0 bandwidth but it is time to let go of the old connector.
@@annekedebruyn7797 tbf a cable is like 10$.
There’s definitely some point to be made on sustainability though. But not including a cable would be pr-suicide (and including multiple cables is wasteful). The question is - what’s more common now - usb A or C connectors?
What is true is true! Helpful and interesting!
hey would i be able to use a usb a to usb c wire for a newer mac? with no issues
USB 2 is fully compatible with USB-C.
That’s intersting. Two things. I have M1 mac studio. Can I still use UFX II with it and not using thunderbolt? What about future expansion o rme 12mic. In UFX+ I would connect it via madi but which connection is the best to connect 12mic with UFX II?
So you are saying Thunderbolt 3 is only better because of its DMA (Direct memory access) which bypasses the CPU for more functions but is not faster than USB 2.0? If yes, then can you explain why Thunderbolt interfaces like the Apollo Twin X is much faster than all USB 2.0 audio interfaces?
RME Audio = Real Masters of Engineering Audio
Useful to have this out there. Now if only I could get my hands on a new RME interface... Could you give an indication when stock levels will be replenished? (UCX II)
Working on it every day!
I actually have a question about this, why is it not possible to make something faster then usb 2.0?
You explain it as if usb 3.0 and thunderbolt is just more lanes parallel.
But...why cant it just be faster on one lane? is it like already running as fast as copper could possibly take the signal or something?
Hello RME, thanks for the great products. I'm trying to buy the rme baby face pro fs but I can't find it for sale anywhere..
I love USB A - B connection. Its not nice to find out when running theater performance that usb-c connection is loose and Qlab is full red crosses.
I have used the Babyface for years and it is sooo good and reliable!
It's only got two XLR, what else does it have.
While I can agree usb 2.0 is fine in most instances. USB 3 allows for more power delivery and the USB-C connector is the way moving forward.
Yup but at least there's always adapters a USB 2 to USB c
@@bluebird1954 what are you, Apple?
Is it a problem, that many PCs dont have a USB2 inputs anymore? Or is there a difference connecting to a usb3 port?
What brand is that green USB that's used with the Babyface Pro in the video. I've been looking for a flat USB cable for it.
d+ Series USB Type C to B ClassB: www.neo-w.com/english/d_plus/d_plus_usb_ser/
This is how not to use a DeEsser. :D Anyways, thanks for the info! Am in the market for a new interface right now, the UFX+ would fit the bill. Wondering if there's a refresh on the horizon? Or an entirely new release inthe UFX+ feature ballpark? Thanks!
UFXII owner, Superbly reliable. Thanks guys.
Great video but I do believe that with onboard DSP processing on newer interface's they do benefit more using thunderbolt and USB 3 as it needs the bandwidth when sessions get quite big and latency has to be kept next to zero.
Really down to preference and what is best for your situation I guess.
IMHO Onboard DSP is going away. CPU's and GPUs are so incredibly more powerful now a days than they were 10 years ago, the newest generation of Apple, NVIDIA, and Intel now have specific AI functions that we might see in use in pro/semi-pro audio in the next few years. The extra CPU power is not longer needed on most modern computers and DSPs are not nearly as flexible as a CPU. Plugins that used to only be great on Apollo DSPs can now be emulated easily on CPUs instead (check out Plugin Alliance especially Brainworx products).
Onboard processing won't change the necessary bandwidth, and the latency won't be different anyway. Either you have enough bandwidth and it works, or you don't have enough bandwidth and it doesn't work. DSP processing might increase the latency, but it has nothing to do with the connection protocol being used.
@@ianjohnson3546 the emulations never needed to be on dsp for any reason other than tracking with no latency. Once you have to send a signal to a computer and back out you have to play with buffer sizes and it gets annoying. If you have a dsp accelerated interface you can plug in your instrument or emulate your preamps on the way in, monitor and print them with no latency. It was never about computers being weak it was about tracking latency. That will never change no matter how powerful computer become due to having to send and receive signals. If you have the processing on the way in it deletes that.
Wow and just like that - today the biggest player in onboard DSP - UAD - just announced that many of their plugins can now be run natively on Mac M1 with no UAD hardware DSP! Never have I had a prediction come true so fast. Just 3 days ago I predicted the coming demise of DSP right here!
@@ianjohnson3546 wow! Can you post a link to that announce please? I cant find it =(
Can you be specific on how much lower latencies are achieved using Thunderbolt vs usb? Ie what is the number of milliseconds difference?
This depends on many factors such as your operating system version etc. We can say for sure that these are not important in real word terms. Take a look at DAWbench for more latency benchmarks
I don't know... I still have some strong doubts. First I believe all those specs discussed about USB and thunderbolt specs are their BURST rates, not continuous speeds over time. USB was designed for high burst rates but then peters out real fast. Firewire, the one that no one liked, was a transport protocol designed for high speed streaming, so continuous. This comes in handy when your song is longer than 1-2 seconds. My Mackie Firewire mixer gives me 1ms in and 1 ms out latencies over 16 channels and I can place pretty much unlimited processing plug-ins per channel on the system and main busses and still play and record "live", here everything POST effects and never even need to think about latency. Are the best and most modern systems today able to do that? So far, none that I have found.
To just record is the EASY part... but record 16 tracks with 10-15 ITB plugins and as many outboard effects racks as you can fit on each channel (the Mackie hardware supports 6 AUX sends), output to your speakers and record 10 more channels playing along with the first 16 tracks at the same time and have no discernable latency... that is the real test. Or if you are really adventurous, try adding video and play everything without the need to to sync anything up like words to mouth motion after layering 5-10 instruments and several singing tracks. That is where you start to really see how good an interface is or isn't.
That is an extreme misunderstanding of how computers and specs work regarding those transmission protocols. USB can be a bit more complicated (after all, on a fundamental level, everything inside your computer is typically connected via PCIe SOMEHOW these days, whether that be through the chipset's lanes connected directly to the CPU's registers or through directly attached PCIe lanes and the CPU's registers.) The reason USB can be more complicated is that multiple USB root hubs are branched off from PCIe since the bandwidth requirements of USB are typically not nearly as high. This means that depending on what's RUNNING on multiple hubs, your speeds could fluctuate as the bandwidth is reallocated towards higher priority IO processes. But you misunderstand the specs; those specs are continuous transfer rates. There really isn't such a thing with computers as "burst rates." That's just not how they work. When you see data transferring through Windows and the graph move up and down on the speed of the transferred file, that is not because the interface is "bursting" and then slowing down again. It's because of the nature of the data being transmitted. CPU and handshaking overhead has always existed with more modern connections like this and will probably always be a thing, and depending on the types of data being transmitted and even what particular block of data is being currently transmitted, actual speeds can vary, even if the total available bandwidth is still the same. Now, could there potentially be advantages to formats that are more directly connected to the CPU and memory? Of course, that's the whole point of Thunderbolt and DMA. Thunderbolt *IS* essentially 4x lanes of PCIe. It's basically a direct window into the PCIe connector that a graphics card or networking card (etc) would use. This advantage still doesn't really matter all that much outside of channel counts though, as the directly available bandwidth and the type of data being transmitted is a known constant, and thus this video is 100% correct.
What is the neon green usb cable that is USB-B -> USB-C shown around the 4minute mark? I would very much like to acquire one to dispense with dongle(s). Also, what generation of Thunderbolt port is included in the UFX+? Thanks. Been using the original UFX in studio and in the field for over a decade and any issue I’ve ever had has not been due to the UFX, always on the operating system, et al side of things. RME for the win. 🏆
It's a USB (Neo d+) cable manufactured by Oyaide. The port is the original Thunderbolt.
Does this still hold true when you are monitoring back with several channels of plugins? I doubt the protocol matters if all you are doing is recording an analog sound in the real world. But if you are using amp sims, virtual sound designers and the like, wouldn’t those greatly impact the latency and be better supported by USB 3.0 and the “additional lanes” as was mentioned in the video?
Most people that are running lots of virtual instruments and plugins are still monitoring a single stereo audio source to their monitors. In my experience, the more heavily people are running virtual instruments, the less audio they are recording from ‘real’ instruments. So there’s a very small amount of data going back and forth between your DAW and the hardware interface. Where latency increases quick here has to do with all of the demands we placing on the computers themselves and the complexities of DAW delay compensation. The issue here is not really how fast or how much data can get from interface to computer.
@@scotthammond7220 Thank you for the explanation Scott! It was always unclear to me if it was a limitation of computing power or if the bottleneck was the protocol itself. I agree, still typical single stereo output so in theory that seems like it holds up!
@@jaredholton3145 My pleasure. I teach audio engineering at a local college. At least once or twice per year a student sends midi info to a Microsoft GM synth in our lab instead of one of the actual virtual instruments. The latency difference is staggering. By choosing one of the proper instruments they get WAY better sound and far less latency. All the while this is happening they are using the same audio interface. That right there is proof that it has a lot more to do with how aspects of the computer are accessing other aspects of the computer, how efficient the code is, what gets priority, etc.
@@scotthammond7220 Amazing! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom Scott.
So as far as virtual instruments go, would you suggest discreet monitoring via an actual keyboard/synth with inherent sounds and if need be sending both the analog sound and the midi data as opposed to sending just midi data to a VST and input monitoring?
I record mostly guitar/bass/drums myself but I do tend to use amp sims for input monitoring which is where my question originally stemmed from.
@@jaredholton3145 That's a good trick for dealing with latency, monitor the audio of a keyboard's own sound while recording the midi into your DAW. I've done that in the past with success. It gets a little hairy if you are looking for a particular sound (especially if the envelope is slow) but have to monitor the performance of a different sound (like a standard piano)...usually bums the players out.
I usually make what I call "slave sessions". If I start putting some plugins on tracks and have to then record a virtual instrument, that's when things start to get crazy for me in terms of latency. So I'll make a quick stereo bounce of where I am, and import that into a fresh session. Now my resources are at a complete minimum and latency can be low for the virtual instrument in question. Once we're happy with the performance and sound I usually just export the instrument track into the original session and all is well. It takes little time and you can judge the sounds in context. This should work well for you if you're finding too much a lag on your amp sims.
I don’t own an RME anymore but when I did, it was absolutely the most stable and reliable interface I had ever used
I just discovered you RME Digiface USB, I have been searching for a way to get 32 In's and out's using rack interfaces for a LONG time and its GENIOUS why nobody else has done this is beyond me, however there is one thing missing. Please in the future could we see a 64 in's 64 Out's ADAT interface like the Digiface but with double the track count. Sure most people won't need 64 Instrument inputs or outputs (hell I NEVER will) but having the I/O count would do wonders for also supporting external outboard equipment (Like the Craborne Audio ADAT500R8 and other series 500 rack units) Also a pair of XLR or 1/4" Jack Monitor out's with some form of metering on the front to detect and prevent Clipping. If you made a unit like this for £700 or less I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But to be on topic of this video, 64 In's and 67 out's allowing for ALL of them to be full 24Bit 196KHz surely USB 3.0 + or thunderbolt would make sense, even just due to required power draw?
You can use several interfaces at the same time. But on Windows the have to use the same driver. For example 2x Digiface USB. The RME driver supports up to 3 interfaces. You can use the headphone outputs as line outputs and you need a clock connection between the interfaces.
"Thank you for watching" - Thank you for work!
:)
If this is the case why are thunderbolt interfaces always lower latency than usb 2.0 can achieve? In round trip latency testing the thunderbolt on the UFX+ and interfaces like Presonus Quantum 2626 is lower than usb 2.0 and can handle 32 buffer size. Why is this?
because RME is lying scumbags. Just ask the question why RME has always praised PCIe over USB. And now all of a sudden USB is as good as PCIe and thunderbolt. It is of course a straight out lie....because they did not have the money to implement thunderbolt ports and by they way their thunderbolt drivers sucked on Fireface UFX+. People had to use the USB driver instead
RME is a the unique company always thinks for long happy consumers users ... i am one !!!! thanks for all developers persons in side !!!!!
Thanks for the video, Is it OK to connect Fireface USB 2.0 to USB3.1 socket?
Yes. When a USB 2 device is connected to a USB 3 port, the USB 3 port switches to USB 2 mode.
Still rocking my FF800 with my M1Max MacBook Pro. How many top-flight audio interfaces still work PERFECTLY with the latest computer hardware after 18 years?!
I’ll wait…