Glad I stumbled onto this video! In fact, at this point, each consecutive video that I’ve watched of yours is completely straight forward with the title and no salesman techniques. This video has cleared up a couple unknowns that I had, and I just want to say thank you. Kyle, you definitely have an incredible teaching gene. I’m looking forward to watching more of your channel. Thanks again.
1 year later and still helping new ppl like me. There is something about your channel that makes it unique I can't put my hand finger on it but keep it up.
This is great information, thank you for clarifying. I just had a computer built for me and I went for a motherboard that supports 2x thunderbolt 4 ports. It was an add on card for a gigabyte motherboard that cost only €69 to add the module, so I added it in to give me more options for extra connectivity. It's something that I don't currently have use for with regards to my audio interface, but it does give extra ports which can be pretty useful. The pc has pretty high specs and can handle anything I can throw at it thankfully.
Audio University content is probably the most helpful resource I've come across. Thank you. I have 2 non thunderbolt usb-C ports and 2 usb-A 3.0. Essentially, I'm short one port at a bare minimum. I'm interested in a docking station but am kind of at a loss at what to acquire latency/ performance wise to connect interface, midi keyboard, ssd, mouse and power supply.
Yeah. I didn’t realize it was a problem until editing. It’s either an artifact of the Zoom call or my interface. Luckily, my new interface just came in, so we can hopefully avoid that in the future!
It could be he has found an interest in investing on a microphone that could save him money. Or maybe in need of a compressor to level up with the older man
Excellent discussion on one of the big myths in audio technology. Thanks for bringing this up, a lot of people need clarification on what does what and what matters in an audio environment :)
Honestly before I could work with TB3 hot plug hackintosh machines, thunderbolt interfaces have been a pipe dream. I’m still on an older UR44 but if I ever decide I want to switch the time is now. TB3 has finally reached maturity and it’s nice.
We didn't mention the ever popular behringer, specifically a behringer xr18. A couple of things about this unit. I have noticed that the price for one of these has basically doubled since I bought mine 7 years ago. It also seems as if they may have either discontinued the product or there may be a supply shortage. I found the latency on this and other behringer interfaces are great, clocking in at 8-10ms. I'm a PC man.
Very good infomations, it is seldom someone like your guest Jim Slick appears on youtube, someone who knows his craft and explains so you can learn from it. Your audio has crackles and noise in the audio when you speak, do you use MOTU interface haha. thanks for a great and informative video.
I'm still working with a system that's about 10 years old with an upgraded PreSonus Studio 1810c interface and tons more software installs than I know what to do with. As I've been having issues with freezes, snaps and pops in recording and playback for quite some time, I'm going to apply some or all of these techniques to see if there will be an improvement for now, until I can upgrade my system. Also, I'm not a textbook audio production guy although I've picked up some things along the way. So, I did learn some good insights to try going forward. Great video and content guys, thank you.
Run a stand alone metronome (like a Tama Rhythm Watch) through an analog mixer and a DAW at the same time, monitor both signals through the analog mixer, and if there’s any latency, no matter how small, it will make the metronome clicks sound thin and flam-y. It’s basically a phase misalignment at that point and makes it sound thin. The same thing happens when a drummer hears the acoustic bleed in a headphone mix with the latency from the DAW. It sounds off. And, mix that in with the latency between what you hear and what you feel directly from your hands and that turns into: analog boards sound and feel better to monitor with. You can get used to DAW/interface latency because it’s not terrible anymore, but monitor from an analog board instead of the mix from the DAW (from the same board) and then you’ll realize how much latency affects the sound, even if it’s under 7ms. The source sounds bigger and just feels better when you hear it in analog, even with the phase issues you can run into with a multiple mic setup.
One other factor I've noticed unfortunately through the years is that firewire and thunderbolt devices aren't supported long term when windows mac decide to update there os. I have had this problem twice, once with a Yamaha go 40 firewire device, and now with windows 11 not supporting the pro 40 saffire. In future im going RME USB!
I am in a similar situation. I am study between RME ufx iii (USB 3.0) or a thunderbolt competitor. I am convinced that rme is phenomenal, but at the same time having a huge PC with 2 thunderbolt 4.0 I am still trying to figure out the best option. Lot of people speaking about thunderbolt connection issues in PC, but it is reality a thing to not choosing this one?
Something I've always wondered since the inception of digital audio is how latency affects the quality of the mix or sound. As in having one instrument processed with more plugins with it's total combined latency, mixed along with another vocal or instrument using less plugins hence less latency. Could the latency difference between the two instruments produce some undesirable effect? And an engineer could be oblivious as to why. So working with digital, does more consideration have to go into designing the mix? I like what Jim Slick had to say about using bussed effects to help reduce latency, simplify and even improve the mix. I also liked the advice of having different machine configurations for recording and for mix. Thanks for another great video.
Great question, Donald. This used to be a problem that needed consideration in the mix, but most DAWs (and DSPs) have "delay compensation" now, which either sets a fixed latency or ensures all signal paths have equal latency. This happens automatically in most DAWs. But you're correct - there would be phase interference as a result of varying latency on each channel. Well done!
I bought an RME Babyface Pro several years ago, it's only USB 2.0 but as it performs so well because of their drivers it doesn't really matter. As long as your computer is decent, you could get around 3ms of crackling-free round-trip latency with a bunch of zero-latency VSTs running simultaneously. I think I actually asked at the time on the RME forum about the company opting for USB 2.0 instead of 3, and as they explained the only actual difference would be the maximum available bandwidth the answer was that it doesn't matter, because 480mbps give more than enough headroom for whatever recording that might take place. I haven't tried connecting all of these, but I suppose you may simultaneously connect 2 microphones + 2 line/instrument + 8 channels via ADAT at 24bit on 48khz, and that would still only be 12x24x48,000 bits per second i.e. 13.824mbps, or 2+2+4 at 24bit on 96khz for a total bitrate of 18.432mbps. It was advised though to connect the Babyface Pro to a USB 3 port as these can provide a higher wattage as required per the interface's specs.
Super nice and informative talk! What I find kinda funny is, that its mostly the audio guys, using bad mics for recordings of talks and interviews...one has pops, the other one a muffled 10$ webcam mic. 😂 And all the content creators with no plan of audio go for the Highest quality road, haha
From my personal experience I see no reason to use anything but RME. Best drivers - best support - great components for the price - Totalmix is superior (we just need a compressor) - great resale value - affordable. You can always add your future boutique preamps and DA of choice through MADI or adat later on.
Many thanks for posting this video. To take the example from the video, 7 milliseconds may be okay for human monitoring but it is an eternity is computer time and is why faster and more efficient interfaces are required so the computer is not spending so much time putting out or receiving audio streams which causes a performance hit. Manufacturers may come up with proprietary USB drivers which seems to be okay until such a driver breaks the functioning of another USB device, something that is sadly not uncommon. Regarding performance optimization, a single threaded software will benefit from manually allocating resources on a multicore system as will multithreaded software. As an example, in a 8 core system (cores 0-7) the OS will typically use the lower-numbered cores whereas the audio software can be allocated to the 'higher' cores such as 6 and 7 (or 4 to 7) which will effectively be giving the audio software an execution environment closer to having a dedicated audio processor. My own machine is multiprocessor and multicore and I am able to give a piece of software, in effect, it's own machine to run on. I have have achieved significant performance gains with this technique and have set up startup scripts to automatically allocate specific system resources to a given application on startup, which is quite straightforward in Windows OS using batch files.
Regarding UA, if you don't get their Thunderbolt 3 interface you won't be able to run their Luna software. Luna has only been available for Macs so far but there is rumor that UA is working on Luna for Windows but who knows how long that will take to arrive. More then likely they will be writing it for Thunderbolt 3 on Windows.
Excellent video and information. Would like to see more of these kinds of info instead of only review of hardware, software, plugins etc. Just a question, is the usb c connecter on the computer the same kind of connecter as the thunderbolt connecter? Mac has usb c ports, can thunderbolt interfaces be connected to these ports without any issue? I have used only non thunderbolt audio interfaces. I have all plugin-alliance plugins (among others), and didn’t have the need for uad plugins. I was thinking to upgrade my audio interface this year. My choices: - below usd 1000: focusrite clarett - between usd 1000 - 2000: antelope discrete 8 - above usd 2000: uad apollo x8 or antelope orion or rme fire fireface ufx+. Is there a real big difference in audio quality between these interfaces? Based on budget, the clarett is first choice. Based what I have learn regarding usb stability and compatibility with both mac and pc , rme would be the choice. Would like to hear your reaction. Thank u.
Although USB-C and Thunderbolt are the same physical connector shape, you need to ensure that the port you’re using supports Thunderbolt. I believe Apple hardware supports Thunderbolt through each port, but I’m not sure. I haven’t tried all of the interfaces you’ve listed here, so I don’t think I can make a recommendation. That said, if you don’t need the UAD plugins and your computer is relatively fast, I don’t think you’d experience a significant difference by spending the extra money. But, again, I haven’t tried the interfaces you’re comparing, so take my response with a grain of salt!
When I hear anyone say phrases like "there is no latency", "you won't hear the difference" and "latency doesn't matter", I right away understand that I am not talking to a professional. Anyone who records fast vocals will hear that even 3ms delay is auditory, because it's not just input delay, but output delay back into your headphones. The faster the vocals, the more you can hear it, when you are singing, not so much.
Hi. The Solution for me was, that i use a "Analog Monitor-Console" where i routed the Sends to a Laptop (with RME Multiface I about 100 Euro) and back to the Returns, via Spdif and or Adat (RME UFx). So i can work with the shortest Latency for the Laptop with no interuption from my "Mix System". (ok.. i have a A/D D/A Conversion in between, but that you have also on a Hardware Lexicon blabla..) I would like to do with a UA Interface, but the smaller ones has no Digital Out. So i would have to do to many Conversions. On the Laptop i can use my VSL Ensemble Standalone or every Type of Programm what can hold VSTs or what ever. So i am totally independent. A small Latency whe come not around..;) I always prefer a analog Cue, cause Phasing Issues which can lead to Intonation Problems on Headphones. Thanks for the Vid!
About the drive type and usage, what needs to be installed on the drive? Plugins, the daw, the OS? Can you change which drive is being used in the daw settings typically?
im just gonna get a usb type c to usb b for my keyboard and audioa interface 2i2 focusrite. i now have a anice macbook pro i would like to use the audio interface with. my macbook pro 16 m3 max is sounding nice and loud with m50x audio technica headphones but with my windows pc and focusrite interface its much louder i would say. i like that.
Great video...thanks !I want to use many soft synth's and vst plugins...so i need to buy Thunderbolt,but i am using PC-windows...so i guess is not good idea...?
22:30 using buses actually makes it worst on processing audio to be honest, especially if you have another FX in the chain, because you will lose the of CPU multithread performance... I.E. if you have 5 channel with some FXs in it once you pass those channels to another bus that has another effects you will lose the multithread process and instead the daw will use 1 thread to process all of those chains that is routed to the bus, hence why a lot of people tend to blame why their why their daw starts to crack while the CPU isint even used that much... so as much as possible using mix bus should be avoided at all cost. Back in the 90s towards to mid 2000 where single core and dual core was a thing it was a useful method, but today with CPU that has 8-32cores, using buses is quite the worst thing to do now a days.
@@AudioUniversity I'm just curious why no one mentioned them because Apogee makes (supposedly) top of the line converters? I had the original Duet for years and then sold it to get the Duet 2 when FireWire was on its way out, but now that USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 are looking like the new standards the pros/cons confuse me. Apogee doesn't use Thunderbolt on their Duet 3 or Symphony Desktop, but they do use Dual Path (where the plugins run on both the DAW natively and on the interface with DSP, and parameter changes are automatically mirrored in near real-time). There isn't some different reverb plugin on the interface and a proprietary native one that only works with the interface, but both Native and DSP versions of the same plugin. I really dislike that UA plugins are locked to their interface. They claim lower latency because the headphone monitor output comes straight from the onboard DSP instead of going through the DAW. So obviously there would be some amount of advantage there, right? But then what's unclear to me is whether that is outweighed by the lack of Thunderbolt 3 speeds and bandwidth. Can you clear this up for me or the guy you interviewed? I'd also love to hear more about Antelope Audio's Zen Core or Zen Tour.
Looking forward to checking this today. My 4i4 uses thunderbolt. So does my docking station and when I plug the thunderbolt from Focusrite into docking station, I have clipping issues (the Focusrite control software only recognizes a USB connection.) Thinking about reverting back to a USB docking station and have a direct line from interface to laptop. Thanks for the video.
My understanding is that the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 is a USB interface. You should be able to use a TB port, but only because TB 3 has backward compatibility with USB. So it is still a USB connection. I could be wrong though.
Update: Resolved with a new thunderbolt cable. Unfortunately It begins to clip once every few hours and you have to go back to preferences and reselect same sample rate. The DAW is still recognizing it as a USB device and is running smoothly despite installing only thunderbolt drivers. Thanks for the vid.
@@AudioUniversity there's USB and TB ones. My 4i4 is powered/transferring data w TB but as my other comment I just posted stated, my saw still only recognizes it as USB in the preferences. Not sure why that's happening. Nonetheless USB is sufficient for me as the previous clipping issue is resolved.
@@GudXM Even my Scarlet 18i20 3rd Gen is USB 2.0 despite having a USB Type C connection. You simply don't need more. The 4i4 is also a USB 2.0 over a faster transport connection. Don't be mistaken by the shape and nature of the physical connector. The main reason manufacturers opt for a higher grade connection and run it at lower speed is power requirement. The interface is still a USB 2.0 interface, but power requirements are around 900mA for the 4i4.
@@GudXM Because as mentioned, the Scarlett series are USB interfaces, not TB. The Scarlett series has a USB-C connector but that does not mean they run on the TB data interface, the data interface it uses is still USB.
USB and thunderbolt. Most motherboards have the optical jack. If you have one already done a video on this out put I apologize. I just found you on RUclips. Optical has been my source in most of my audio adventures. From high end to daily usage. Computer motherboards built in audio solutions have been lacking in quality. Were the semi square Optical output. Delivers the same speed for digital transfer. (Note the bit rate with optical seems tapped at 128. "Yes bit rate can be better." ) Most the time you will see 48khz on a receiver from an optical connection. This bit rate can be higher. Up to the 128 mentioned. documentation = 3.1 Mbit/s; now 125 Mbit/s Optical fiber, ~10 m (33 ft) maximum. !!A 33 ft cable of that quality is going to cost an arm and a leg.!! but it is possible.
Hey, Im new to your channel and also new to music production as Im starting off to build my home music studio now. I would appreciate your help regarding to choose the right audio interface for me. I currently have a Macbook pro retina 13 inch early 2015 model to work with and Im going to upgrade it to a better Macbook in the future but for now I hope it will do ok. What type of audio interface would be best for me? Ofc I wish as low latency as possible but I also want it to be universal when I choose plug-ins etc…
Nice topic I was actually hoping to find out why in the past I had massive issues with a USB 3.x interface and when returning it and going for a USB 2.0 interface there were non of these issues (I used to have a FireWire interface before this) My new system has USB 4.0 / Thunderbolt 4 so I might look into getting a better interface than the USB 2.0 interface I currently have but I the issues of the past make me a bit worried about going for these newer connection type of interfaces
Did you bought someone since then? I am in the same situation and study a lot. I have a fresh PC compatible with thunderbolt connection but since a reading about issues I am struggling to decide the way related to a new audio interface acquisition: USB or thunderbolt. Thanks.
I bought the PreSonus Quantum which has thunderbolt. When it works it's solid, however I have had constant connection issues and I have to continuously go into the BIOS to change and play with the settings for the thunderbolt connection to get it to work. Just remember, just because you have a faster connection does not mean latency won't be an issue. That depends on your PC MB, CPU, etc.
@@RR_85 Thanks for answering. After w months of researching I chose for RME UFX III. Very expensive and cost me one leaver! Hopefully no headaches with it🤞! So far so good running smoothly on my Windows 11 PC.
What about a thunderbolt compatible phone, to thunderbolt mic? Would a high end phone with the right amount of hertz , ram, gig ect... Compete against a a mid range pc? Seems so direct to me
Really nice video, but I have some questions, since English isnt my main language and I wasnt able to fully pickup all the detailed information contained in this video. I have an IMac with TB2 port and I was thinking about buying an Apollo Interface witch can be bouth both in TB3 or USB3 versions, I was wondering if it was better to buy the TB3 and connecting it with an Apple adaptor to my TB2, buying the USB one or maybe buy the TB3 one and connecting it to one of my USB port on the IMac.
It probably won’t make much of a difference (depending on the channel counts for tracking and playback). Check out this video: ruclips.net/video/x_hKdU6M1cw/видео.html
Has anyone done the math to figure out how much bandwidth an interface would NEED at all? The connection type doesn't at all matter as long as the bitrate required to transport whatever data is coming in and out of an interface is less or equal to the bitrate the physical connection provides, right? If an interface offers "only" USB 2.0 and it needs to move less data than is made possible with USB 2.0, it's fine and more than enough. Connecting an interface that moves around 300 Mb of data to a port that can move 5 Gb makes no sense in reality since the amount of data to move will not grow magically :) Debating the physical connection is pointless in evaluating an interface in my opinion. Also, the cost of a Thunderbolt connection is way more than the cost of implementing a USB 2.0 port on hardware and this makes your price point way higher. The only issue a faster port speed will help is latency, but honestly, latency rarely comes from the port speed, but the poor design inside an inteface. The interface I have, for example, has less than 5 milliseconds latency over a USB 2.0 connection (over a USB Type C connection) and it's totally fine. The only reason manufacturers go for the higher connection despite not needing it is the amount of power it can provide, therfore being able to make bus powered devices more easily.
Not to mention bandwidth has zero relevance to latency. USB 2.0 is sufficient for most audio interfaces, the only exception really being ones with huge amounts of I/O, in which case USB3/thunderbolt/PCIE is necessary. Thunderbolt is largely a gimmick when it comes to audio interfaces.
Exactly. These video's seem to give some basic info but totally skip over the actual practicallity and connects specific possibilites with specs it has nothing to do with... Usb 2.0 is very fast. Talking about usb 3 is just luxerious. Not to mention thunderbold....
@AudioUniversity @20:00 He means that a single VSTi can use 1 single CPU core only, or that all the VSTis in a project can use one and the same CPU core? With other words, can multiple VSTis be spread over the multiple cores of a CPU? I guess we cannot ask him again and it remains to find that by ourselves... 2 - Another question I wanted to ask is: beside the bandwidth, which is related to the size of the data that you want to transfer, is there a difference between the speeds in which the 2 types of protocols transfer a very small packet of data (so small that makes the bandwidth irrelevant), from the input of a device to the computer (not taking into account the time it takes the AD/DA converters or the DSP to process that data)? Just the simple transit of the signal through a device, from the inputs of the device to the entry on the next device. Thanks for your great videos, Kyle! I hope your channel remains the same and does not sacrifice the quality of the content for other things.
Great discussion guys. One question however my Mac mini has thunderbolt/USB 4 input and my presonus quantum 2626 has thunderbolt 3 output. I tried a tb3 cable and no connection will a tb4 cable connect the two ?
Odd how he says that vsts arent able to utilize multi-core architectures something about Steinberg because it's their codec. Like they haven't updated it vst3 by now, and if you look at cuebase benchmarks on multi core systems versus single car systems the CPU usage drops drastically, and lo and behold cuebase is a Steinberg product. Anotherr thing some vst's are able to leverage the compute power of dedicated graphics cards now.
most drummers would feel 5 ms latency. none dsp is the best if you want to feel perfect sync with DAW, for example, for me it it is a big issue when finger drumming with metronom + delay FX which should be in sync
The 9 year old computer part made me lol, that's exactly how old my desktop is and I can run a ton of tracks and plugins all while keeping my buffer at 128 with a round trip latency of 9.6 ms... and yeah I know my rig is probably the exception but it was still a good laugh
Great video thanks. But it isn't - as always - as straightforward as you think it is, and how it comes across in the video. You still have to think about: 1. Power, well does it run by powered USB/TB? Today you have to think about all the countries different wall warts and main grid systems, and get a wall wart for each. If it is bus powered you only need the one for your laptop/macbook/iPad everywhere you go. Not to be neglected. Also, I've encountered "cleaner" recordings when all is self cointained, especially with electric guitars with single coil pickups, since the earth/ground is de-coupled from it all. Headphones and laptop, and soundcard. Only. No connection, the slightest, to the grid. Runs on "batteries" only. Cleaner DC offsets, so to speak. 2. You have to think about CORE audio drivers, ASIO drivers, WDM drivers and whatnot. Some works better on WIndows/PC than on Apple/Mac and the other way around too. And you're pretty much f****ed after you bought it and find it didn't turn out that well, regardless of what you did to fix it. 3. Most of you forget to think about playing "live" with a VST plugin, say Amp plugin, on top of backing tracks, stemmed from RUclips, Spotify, iTunes, Tidal, whatever, even a simple onboard wav file, or CD playing in background (if anyone has that anymore). On FW this works like a charm, but I have had problems on any USB (any versions). I had 2 different plugins going on, a MIDI keyboard connected through a VST synth plug in, The electric guitar connected to an VST Amp plugin, and a 2 track backing track. No additional latency at all, and no clicks. That is with an old FW M-audio Profire 610 card, on a MacBook pro from 2012. 10 years old now. I've tried to do that with a USB 3.1 card even, and it didn't turn out well. Unless you had latencies over the threshold where it's acceptable, like 15-20 ms without clicks from CPU. 4. The following test is a do-or-die test with all soundcards, regardless of TB/USB 3.1/FW. Since you brought up that the latency should matter after it is below a certain threshold. Like 5 ms. This is a niched thing scenario though, and may not be important to everyone. But I feel a difference when playing guitar through headphones, where there's hardly any travel of sound distance into your eardrum. It's when I play with a VST guitar plugin that has an digital or analog DELAY unit simulator built in. If I set to play a tempo delay set at 500 ms, and tries to play in tempo to it (U2 and so on, the dotted 8s delay thing) you can bet your ass that I am getting thrown off big time. Because there isn't any 500 ms delay time. It is IN the subesequent repeats, of the internal delay, but as fast as a new direct signal comes in from the guitar, it is 500 ms PLUS the conversion delay/latency, that gets added to the FIRST repeat of the delay, so say, if you have a roundtrip latency of 5 ms, the delay from the first signal to the second is 500+5 ms = the delay time is 505 ms. But the rest inside there is 500 ms, and believe me, it gets heard and gets muddy, and not tight enough. On real hardware delay pedals this is not a problem. And not on old analog delay pedals too. However, this is a niche esoteric thing but anyways. If the roundtrip latency goes down to 1-2 ms and below I can lock in closer and tigher and the repeats doesn't clutter up. The only real delay pedal today that does this perfectly is the Eventide Rose, which feedback loop delay goes in and out from the AD/DA before going in again, so if the delay is set to 500 ms, each successive repeat is exaclty 500 ms too, down to less than a millisecond. However, keep in mind, the above is ONE (but one) reasons some have included DSP in their soundcards, to not to play havoc too much with delay latency while tracking and playing "live" with effects. There, and if you use that DSP, it's spot on. No problems then. But, nevertheless, such things must be considered too.
I suck; I use Audacity and a cheap USB 2 instrument cable to record. It definitely makes a difference; my recordings don't sound the same as playing live through my nearfields. I want to upgrade to a Behringer interface; then hopefully I'll be sipping Mad Dog in the gutter instead of rain water.
I just recently bought a focusrite scarlet 4i4 but I have a MacBook Air m1 with thunderbolt/usb4 ports. The focusrite scarlet 4i4 doesn’t come with a cable that has a usb-c on the other end. It only comes with usb-c to usb 2.0 Online reviews say use an apple adapter but some folks are saying it’s not the best. Other reviews say to use a usb-c to usb-c no longer than 2m. I’m wondering which chord I should buy and if you have a link to one that works with my setup. Should it be a usb-c to usb-c 3.1, 3.0, or 2.0 Thank you.
I have an older MacBook Pro that has USB 2.0, Thunderbolt, and FireWire. Using a Presonus Audiobox that is USB only. I have a lot of noise and popping etc. Wondering if I should get an interface that supports thunderbolt?
My new M1 iMac arrives next week. I’m downsizing, and hopefully upgrading, from a 27” iMac (late 2015, Intel Core i5) that my SSL 2 audio interface and other peripherals are connected to. I am hoping to have a smooth transition.
I just got mine a few weeks ago. Transitioned from an ATX PC, and I couldn't be happier with the increase in my workflow. Super solid little machine. It's lightning fast, quiet as a mouse, and it uses a fraction of the electricity that my PC used.
Hi I really liked the video and been struggling to find out if I should get DSP or USB. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro i5 2.5ghz 16 gb 256ssd I have 100 instrumentals complete already mixed down and bounced ready for vocals ( i buy the instrumentals / beats online) My ideal vocal chain would be Antares autotune artist ( formally autotune live and optimized for low latency performance ) and then the usual basics such as compression eq limiter gain delay and a nice reverb etc. Would be only having around 3 stacks the main vocal and then another panned to left and another panned to right I was considering the motu m2 which is supposed to be excellent for in latency with a round trip of 2.50ms and less if you install the drivers. Well I’m confused because someone told me that because I wanna use autotune I will need a Universal audio interface of some kind. and then to purchase autotune real-time plugin their version of itbecause on my set up they said the latency would be too bad to sing with it on hearing the effect and I wouldn’t be able to monitor it while recording let alone play in a live performance ( small gig like a house party or a small bar/ restaurant ). I only have ONE chance to get this choice right the First time. Already have microphone and everything else. So could you pleeeaaasssee tell me if It would work with a USB interface like motu m2 with Antares artist or even waves tune real time? I’ve also considered getting a older thunderbolt2 interface like the zoom tac 2 for example, but I’m worried cause they don’t even sell it anymore and used price very cheap. or do i really have to save up for a UA audio interface and autotune real-time plug in
I prefer to monitor through my desktop PC DAW, so i use a PCIe souncard.. External soundcards just don't get the Ultra low latency that i can, which is 0.500ms, running at 24/96 and buffers at 32samples... This basically means i can record/monitor in real time directly from my recording software (cubase-calkwalk-pro tools)... The other upside is the amount of max channels, plugins per channel and soft synths etc i can run.. Also, touching on your reference to noticeable latency times; 3-5ms latency is equivalent to a 16th note in musical terms.. 5-10ms latency is equivalent to about an 8th note musically... and anything above 12ms is like having an echo machine..
U gave me an idea! I had never ever thought that I should use an internal audio card. I have yet to find a how-to video about how to connect my guitars to the internal sound card, and how an internal sound card works differently from an external audio interface. I wanna achieve the lowest latency possible. Thanx for your comment!
Glad I stumbled onto this video! In fact, at this point, each consecutive video that I’ve watched of yours is completely straight forward with the title and no salesman techniques. This video has cleared up a couple unknowns that I had, and I just want to say thank you. Kyle, you definitely have an incredible teaching gene. I’m looking forward to watching more of your channel. Thanks again.
Thanks, Chris. I'm very happy to read your comment! Glad you're enjoying the videos.
1 year later and still helping new ppl like me. There is something about your channel that makes it unique I can't put my hand finger on it but keep it up.
Glad to help!
I'm glad you mentioned the power management settings. I went through a nightmare with latency until I found out about those settings.
This is great information, thank you for clarifying. I just had a computer built for me and I went for a motherboard that supports 2x thunderbolt 4 ports. It was an add on card for a gigabyte motherboard that cost only €69 to add the module, so I added it in to give me more options for extra connectivity. It's something that I don't currently have use for with regards to my audio interface, but it does give extra ports which can be pretty useful.
The pc has pretty high specs and can handle anything I can throw at it thankfully.
You do an excellent job explaining audio! Thanks for taking the time to produce so many of these videos.
Audio University content is probably the most helpful resource I've come across. Thank you.
I have 2 non thunderbolt usb-C ports and 2 usb-A 3.0. Essentially, I'm short one port at a bare minimum. I'm interested in a docking station but am kind of at a loss at what to acquire latency/ performance wise to connect interface, midi keyboard, ssd, mouse and power supply.
Great consolidation of some hugely useful audio production knowledge. Thank you!
Thanks, Chris! Glad you enjoyed it!
Crazy amount of value in this discussion. Thank you for all the info!
Is anyone else hearing popping noises when the younger man speaks?
Yeah. I didn’t realize it was a problem until editing. It’s either an artifact of the Zoom call or my interface. Luckily, my new interface just came in, so we can hopefully avoid that in the future!
It could be he has found an interest in investing on a microphone that could save him money. Or maybe in need of a compressor to level up with the older man
@@AudioUniversitysounds like when my DAW is struggling to play back because the CPU is overloaded
Yesnt
Thats just zoom calls
Excellent discussion on one of the big myths in audio technology. Thanks for bringing this up, a lot of people need clarification on what does what and what matters in an audio environment :)
Thanks for watching!
Excellent - the difference when professionals talk! Thank you!!
What a video man. Had to subscribe after this.
Fantastic discussion and insight. Would love a breakdown of driver types as an extension of this discussion: ASIO vs WDM etc
ASIO is what you want to use in your DAW. WDM is for Windows. Focusrite ASIO and WDM drivers are rock solid in Windows 10 and 11.
Honestly before I could work with TB3 hot plug hackintosh machines, thunderbolt interfaces have been a pipe dream.
I’m still on an older UR44 but if I ever decide I want to switch the time is now. TB3 has finally reached maturity and it’s nice.
Man, this video is SO helpful. Thank you for putting this together, and thank you to Jim for sharing the knowledge
Glad it’s helpful, Vince!
We didn't mention the ever popular behringer, specifically a behringer xr18. A couple of things about this unit. I have noticed that the price for one of these has basically doubled since I bought mine 7 years ago. It also seems as if they may have either discontinued the product or there may be a supply shortage. I found the latency on this and other behringer interfaces are great, clocking in at 8-10ms. I'm a PC man.
Very good infomations, it is seldom someone like your guest Jim Slick appears on youtube, someone who knows his craft and explains so you can learn from it. Your audio has crackles and noise in the audio when you speak, do you use MOTU interface haha. thanks for a great and informative video.
Very helpful. Lots of concepts, simply explained. Thank You!
I'm still working with a system that's about 10 years old with an upgraded PreSonus Studio 1810c interface and tons more software installs than I know what to do with. As I've been having issues with freezes, snaps and pops in recording and playback for quite some time, I'm going to apply some or all of these techniques to see if there will be an improvement for now, until I can upgrade my system. Also, I'm not a textbook audio production guy although I've picked up some things along the way. So, I did learn some good insights to try going forward. Great video and content guys, thank you.
Here is another guide to this topic: ruclips.net/video/x_hKdU6M1cw/видео.html
Hope that helps!
@@AudioUniversity Great info man, thanks!
Thank You! I think the newer RME UFX III is my next interface.
About to pull the trigger on this one. Did you buy it? How is it performing?
Run a stand alone metronome (like a Tama Rhythm Watch) through an analog mixer and a DAW at the same time, monitor both signals through the analog mixer, and if there’s any latency, no matter how small, it will make the metronome clicks sound thin and flam-y. It’s basically a phase misalignment at that point and makes it sound thin. The same thing happens when a drummer hears the acoustic bleed in a headphone mix with the latency from the DAW. It sounds off. And, mix that in with the latency between what you hear and what you feel directly from your hands and that turns into: analog boards sound and feel better to monitor with. You can get used to DAW/interface latency because it’s not terrible anymore, but monitor from an analog board instead of the mix from the DAW (from the same board) and then you’ll realize how much latency affects the sound, even if it’s under 7ms. The source sounds bigger and just feels better when you hear it in analog, even with the phase issues you can run into with a multiple mic setup.
Officially deciding between an RME Fireface UFX+ and a Prism Sound Titan. Also switching to Apple from PC. Coming off of a UAD Apollo Twin Quad.
One other factor I've noticed unfortunately through the years is that firewire and thunderbolt devices aren't supported long term when windows mac decide to update there os.
I have had this problem twice, once with a Yamaha go 40 firewire device, and now with windows 11 not supporting the pro 40 saffire. In future im going RME USB!
I am in a similar situation. I am study between RME ufx iii (USB 3.0) or a thunderbolt competitor. I am convinced that rme is phenomenal, but at the same time having a huge PC with 2 thunderbolt 4.0 I am still trying to figure out the best option. Lot of people speaking about thunderbolt connection issues in PC, but it is reality a thing to not choosing this one?
Something I've always wondered since the inception of digital audio is how latency affects the quality of the mix or sound. As in having one instrument processed with more plugins with it's total combined latency, mixed along with another vocal or instrument using less plugins hence less latency. Could the latency difference between the two instruments produce some undesirable effect? And an engineer could be oblivious as to why. So working with digital, does more consideration have to go into designing the mix? I like what Jim Slick had to say about using bussed effects to help reduce latency, simplify and even improve the mix. I also liked the advice of having different machine configurations for recording and for mix. Thanks for another great video.
Great question, Donald. This used to be a problem that needed consideration in the mix, but most DAWs (and DSPs) have "delay compensation" now, which either sets a fixed latency or ensures all signal paths have equal latency. This happens automatically in most DAWs.
But you're correct - there would be phase interference as a result of varying latency on each channel. Well done!
Wow!!! Excellent topic and discussion. Very well presented!!!
GREAT INFO! Thanks, Jim Slick, answering with great clarity!
This is why I rock with RME! This is an amazing video on of the most educational videos I've ever scene AMAZING CONTENT! AU!
*one
Very good video. I definitely think the computer and storage - including tweaking - play a huge difference much more than usb type and Thunderbolt.
This guy is amazing, for real. Thank you for this interview and beautiful information. Wow!!!
Thanks again to Slick Audio! And thank you for watching, Nori Beatz.
@@AudioUniversity Appreciate you, bless
Great informative video, thanks for that, but do you know what caused that constant interference during the interview on the younger guy's mic?
I bought an RME Babyface Pro several years ago, it's only USB 2.0 but as it performs so well because of their drivers it doesn't really matter. As long as your computer is decent, you could get around 3ms of crackling-free round-trip latency with a bunch of zero-latency VSTs running simultaneously.
I think I actually asked at the time on the RME forum about the company opting for USB 2.0 instead of 3, and as they explained the only actual difference would be the maximum available bandwidth the answer was that it doesn't matter, because 480mbps give more than enough headroom for whatever recording that might take place. I haven't tried connecting all of these, but I suppose you may simultaneously connect 2 microphones + 2 line/instrument + 8 channels via ADAT at 24bit on 48khz, and that would still only be 12x24x48,000 bits per second i.e. 13.824mbps, or 2+2+4 at 24bit on 96khz for a total bitrate of 18.432mbps.
It was advised though to connect the Babyface Pro to a USB 3 port as these can provide a higher wattage as required per the interface's specs.
Honesty is the best for people that are trying to get the best results! Awesome guys, awesome!!! The best video I have ever seen. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Very interesting chat! Lotsa useful information. Great video 👍👍
Super nice and informative talk!
What I find kinda funny is, that its mostly the audio guys, using bad mics for recordings of talks and interviews...one has pops, the other one a muffled 10$ webcam mic. 😂
And all the content creators with no plan of audio go for the Highest quality road, haha
Fantastic video. Thank you for putting this together.
16:54 has some really good information about power management about USB. Thank you!
Thanks for watching, Zonther!
From my personal experience I see no reason to use anything but RME. Best drivers - best support - great components for the price - Totalmix is superior (we just need a compressor) - great resale value - affordable. You can always add your future boutique preamps and DA of choice through MADI or adat later on.
Many thanks for posting this video. To take the example from the video, 7 milliseconds may be okay for human monitoring but it is an eternity is computer time and is why faster and more efficient interfaces are required so the computer is not spending so much time putting out or receiving audio streams which causes a performance hit. Manufacturers may come up with proprietary USB drivers which seems to be okay until such a driver breaks the functioning of another USB device, something that is sadly not uncommon.
Regarding performance optimization, a single threaded software will benefit from manually allocating resources on a multicore system as will multithreaded software. As an example, in a 8 core system (cores 0-7) the OS will typically use the lower-numbered cores whereas the audio software can be allocated to the 'higher' cores such as 6 and 7 (or 4 to 7) which will effectively be giving the audio software an execution environment closer to having a dedicated audio processor. My own machine is multiprocessor and multicore and I am able to give a piece of software, in effect, it's own machine to run on. I have have achieved significant performance gains with this technique and have set up startup scripts to automatically allocate specific system resources to a given application on startup, which is quite straightforward in Windows OS using batch files.
Thanks for the tip!
Regarding UA, if you don't get their Thunderbolt 3 interface you won't be able to run their Luna software. Luna has only been available for Macs so far but there is rumor that UA is working on Luna for Windows but who knows how long that will take to arrive. More then likely they will be writing it for Thunderbolt 3 on Windows.
Latency is directly related to single core CPU speed. Core count makes no difference. Thought that should be added. Great video.
I got a Steinberg UR22C interface, it can use USB C 3.1 as well as USB 2, it also has built-in DPS effects you can apply with no latency.
Hey. Do the plugins have upsampeling?
10/10 content and flow!
Excellent video and information. Would like to see more of these kinds of info instead of only review of hardware, software, plugins etc.
Just a question, is the usb c connecter on the computer the same kind of connecter as the thunderbolt connecter? Mac has usb c ports, can thunderbolt interfaces be connected to these ports without any issue? I have used only non thunderbolt audio interfaces. I have all plugin-alliance plugins (among others), and didn’t have the need for uad plugins.
I was thinking to upgrade my audio interface this year. My choices:
- below usd 1000: focusrite clarett
- between usd 1000 - 2000: antelope discrete 8
- above usd 2000: uad apollo x8 or antelope orion or rme fire fireface ufx+.
Is there a real big difference in audio quality between these interfaces?
Based on budget, the clarett is first choice. Based what I have learn regarding usb stability and compatibility with both mac and pc , rme would be the choice.
Would like to hear your reaction. Thank u.
Although USB-C and Thunderbolt are the same physical connector shape, you need to ensure that the port you’re using supports Thunderbolt. I believe Apple hardware supports Thunderbolt through each port, but I’m not sure.
I haven’t tried all of the interfaces you’ve listed here, so I don’t think I can make a recommendation.
That said, if you don’t need the UAD plugins and your computer is relatively fast, I don’t think you’d experience a significant difference by spending the extra money.
But, again, I haven’t tried the interfaces you’re comparing, so take my response with a grain of salt!
When I hear anyone say phrases like "there is no latency", "you won't hear the difference" and "latency doesn't matter", I right away understand that I am not talking to a professional.
Anyone who records fast vocals will hear that even 3ms delay is auditory, because it's not just input delay, but output delay back into your headphones.
The faster the vocals, the more you can hear it, when you are singing, not so much.
Great informative video !!!!!! Superb job guys !!!! Thank you 💪👍🙏🔥
Who interface was popping and clicking?
Hi. The Solution for me was, that i use a "Analog Monitor-Console" where i routed the Sends to a Laptop (with RME Multiface I about 100 Euro) and back to the Returns, via Spdif and or Adat (RME UFx). So i can work with the shortest Latency for the Laptop with no interuption from my "Mix System". (ok.. i have a A/D D/A Conversion in between, but that you have also on a Hardware Lexicon blabla..)
I would like to do with a UA Interface, but the smaller ones has no Digital Out. So i would have to do to many Conversions.
On the Laptop i can use my VSL Ensemble Standalone or every Type of Programm what can hold VSTs or what ever.
So i am totally independent. A small Latency whe come not around..;)
I always prefer a analog Cue, cause Phasing Issues which can lead to Intonation Problems on Headphones.
Thanks for the Vid!
Very interesting discussion! Thanks to both of you
Thanks for watching, Joshua!
Great interview all around.
Very helpful video! But what about apogee? Don‘t they also offer dsp plugins?
About the drive type and usage, what needs to be installed on the drive? Plugins, the daw, the OS? Can you change which drive is being used in the daw settings typically?
Quite useful information right here. Cheers! :)
Thx a lot! It was great listening 2 you both - even 4 a non-pro! ;-)
One of those people who as soon as they start talking, your brain automatically knows to tell you to shut up and listen.
im just gonna get a usb type c to usb b for my keyboard and audioa interface 2i2 focusrite. i now have a anice macbook pro i would like to use the audio interface with. my macbook pro 16 m3 max is sounding nice and loud with m50x audio technica headphones but with my windows pc and focusrite interface its much louder i would say. i like that.
Great video...thanks !I want to use many soft synth's and vst plugins...so i need to buy Thunderbolt,but i am using PC-windows...so i guess is not good idea...?
I use the Apollo Twin with windows and it works well for the DAW and everything except video conferencing software.
Good subject and great information.
Keep up the good work 👽👍
Awesome video. Very knowledgeable guys. Wow.
it´s a very good interview
Very informative and well explained, thank you very much.
22:30 using buses actually makes it worst on processing audio to be honest, especially if you have another FX in the chain, because you will lose the of CPU multithread performance...
I.E. if you have 5 channel with some FXs in it once you pass those channels to another bus that has another effects you will lose the multithread process and instead the daw will use 1 thread to process all of those chains that is routed to the bus, hence why a lot of people tend to blame why their why their daw starts to crack while the CPU isint even used that much... so as much as possible using mix bus should be avoided at all cost. Back in the 90s towards to mid 2000 where single core and dual core was a thing it was a useful method, but today with CPU that has 8-32cores, using buses is quite the worst thing to do now a days.
very well done ------ quite excellent and balanced presentation -
Why no mention of Apogee’s Duet 3 or Symphony Desktop?
Nothing against those interfaces - they’re probably great. I just haven’t used them before. Is that what you use? How do you like them?
@@AudioUniversity I'm just curious why no one mentioned them because Apogee makes (supposedly) top of the line converters?
I had the original Duet for years and then sold it to get the Duet 2 when FireWire was on its way out, but now that USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 are looking like the new standards the pros/cons confuse me.
Apogee doesn't use Thunderbolt on their Duet 3 or Symphony Desktop, but they do use Dual Path (where the plugins run on both the DAW natively and on the interface with DSP, and parameter changes are automatically mirrored in near real-time). There isn't some different reverb plugin on the interface and a proprietary native one that only works with the interface, but both Native and DSP versions of the same plugin. I really dislike that UA plugins are locked to their interface.
They claim lower latency because the headphone monitor output comes straight from the onboard DSP instead of going through the DAW. So obviously there would be some amount of advantage there, right? But then what's unclear to me is whether that is outweighed by the lack of Thunderbolt 3 speeds and bandwidth. Can you clear this up for me or the guy you interviewed? I'd also love to hear more about Antelope Audio's Zen Core or Zen Tour.
Freeze the Virtual Tracks . Awesome information
Looking forward to checking this today.
My 4i4 uses thunderbolt. So does my docking station and when I plug the thunderbolt from Focusrite into docking station, I have clipping issues (the Focusrite control software only recognizes a USB connection.)
Thinking about reverting back to a USB docking station and have a direct line from interface to laptop.
Thanks for the video.
My understanding is that the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 is a USB interface. You should be able to use a TB port, but only because TB 3 has backward compatibility with USB. So it is still a USB connection. I could be wrong though.
Update: Resolved with a new thunderbolt cable. Unfortunately It begins to clip once every few hours and you have to go back to preferences and reselect same sample rate. The DAW is still recognizing it as a USB device and is running smoothly despite installing only thunderbolt drivers.
Thanks for the vid.
@@AudioUniversity there's USB and TB ones. My 4i4 is powered/transferring data w TB but as my other comment I just posted stated, my saw still only recognizes it as USB in the preferences. Not sure why that's happening. Nonetheless USB is sufficient for me as the previous clipping issue is resolved.
@@GudXM Even my Scarlet 18i20 3rd Gen is USB 2.0 despite having a USB Type C connection. You simply don't need more. The 4i4 is also a USB 2.0 over a faster transport connection. Don't be mistaken by the shape and nature of the physical connector. The main reason manufacturers opt for a higher grade connection and run it at lower speed is power requirement. The interface is still a USB 2.0 interface, but power requirements are around 900mA for the 4i4.
@@GudXM Because as mentioned, the Scarlett series are USB interfaces, not TB. The Scarlett series has a USB-C connector but that does not mean they run on the TB data interface, the data interface it uses is still USB.
MacPro 2013 TB 2 trying out a SSD TB HD drive for recording song data. Running Monterey, had to buy a cable to go from TB 3 to TB 2. Testing testing!
I chuckled at "when you're done tweaking the sound" :D
Fantastic, thank you so much 🙏
USB and thunderbolt. Most motherboards have the optical jack. If you have one already done a video on this out put I apologize. I just found you on RUclips.
Optical has been my source in most of my audio adventures. From high end to daily usage.
Computer motherboards built in audio solutions have been lacking in quality.
Were the semi square Optical output. Delivers the same speed for digital transfer.
(Note the bit rate with optical seems tapped at 128. "Yes bit rate can be better." ) Most the time you will see 48khz on a receiver from an optical connection. This bit rate can be higher. Up to the 128 mentioned. documentation = 3.1 Mbit/s; now 125 Mbit/s Optical fiber, ~10 m (33 ft) maximum.
!!A 33 ft cable of that quality is going to cost an arm and a leg.!! but it is possible.
I'm glad you found Audio University, Geo YinYang. I don't have a video on optical connections yet, but that's a great idea! Thanks for watching.
Please make Video Regarding Filters (BS,BW,LR) & Slopes 6, 12, 18, or 24 dB/Octave.
Hey, Im new to your channel and also new to music production as Im starting off to build my home music studio now.
I would appreciate your help regarding to choose the right audio interface for me.
I currently have a Macbook pro retina 13 inch early 2015 model to work with and Im going to upgrade it to a better Macbook in the future but for now I hope it will do ok.
What type of audio interface would be best for me?
Ofc I wish as low latency as possible but I also want it to be universal when I choose plug-ins etc…
Nice topic
I was actually hoping to find out why in the past I had massive issues with a USB 3.x interface and when returning it and going for a USB 2.0 interface there were non of these issues (I used to have a FireWire interface before this)
My new system has USB 4.0 / Thunderbolt 4 so I might look into getting a better interface than the USB 2.0 interface I currently have but I the issues of the past make me a bit worried about going for these newer connection type of interfaces
Did you bought someone since then? I am in the same situation and study a lot. I have a fresh PC compatible with thunderbolt connection but since a reading about issues I am struggling to decide the way related to a new audio interface acquisition: USB or thunderbolt. Thanks.
I bought the PreSonus Quantum which has thunderbolt. When it works it's solid, however I have had constant connection issues and I have to continuously go into the BIOS to change and play with the settings for the thunderbolt connection to get it to work. Just remember, just because you have a faster connection does not mean latency won't be an issue. That depends on your PC MB, CPU, etc.
@@RR_85 Thanks for answering. After w months of researching I chose for RME UFX III. Very expensive and cost me one leaver! Hopefully no headaches with it🤞! So far so good running smoothly on my Windows 11 PC.
This information is gold.
Glad to help, JudgeFredd! Thanks for watching.
Many thanks about the computer tips!!!
Glad it was helpful!
sound kinda clipping. Like Robot. disable/mute other microphone input, will make it better.
Great video thank you!
Glad it helped! Thanks, Matt!
What about a thunderbolt compatible phone, to thunderbolt mic? Would a high end phone with the right amount of hertz , ram, gig ect... Compete against a a mid range pc? Seems so direct to me
Really nice video, but I have some questions, since English isnt my main language and I wasnt able to fully pickup all the detailed information contained in this video.
I have an IMac with TB2 port and I was thinking about buying an Apollo Interface witch can be bouth both in TB3 or USB3 versions, I was wondering if it was better to buy the TB3 and connecting it with an Apple adaptor to my TB2, buying the USB one or maybe buy the TB3 one and connecting it to one of my USB port on the IMac.
I thought that even if TB is the best option I could suffer from latency due to the adaptor
It probably won’t make much of a difference (depending on the channel counts for tracking and playback). Check out this video: ruclips.net/video/x_hKdU6M1cw/видео.html
@@AudioUniversity Thanks a lot I'll check it out now
Thank you Walter from the big lebowski explaining audio interfaces to me like I'm Donny
Has anyone done the math to figure out how much bandwidth an interface would NEED at all? The connection type doesn't at all matter as long as the bitrate required to transport whatever data is coming in and out of an interface is less or equal to the bitrate the physical connection provides, right? If an interface offers "only" USB 2.0 and it needs to move less data than is made possible with USB 2.0, it's fine and more than enough. Connecting an interface that moves around 300 Mb of data to a port that can move 5 Gb makes no sense in reality since the amount of data to move will not grow magically :) Debating the physical connection is pointless in evaluating an interface in my opinion. Also, the cost of a Thunderbolt connection is way more than the cost of implementing a USB 2.0 port on hardware and this makes your price point way higher. The only issue a faster port speed will help is latency, but honestly, latency rarely comes from the port speed, but the poor design inside an inteface. The interface I have, for example, has less than 5 milliseconds latency over a USB 2.0 connection (over a USB Type C connection) and it's totally fine. The only reason manufacturers go for the higher connection despite not needing it is the amount of power it can provide, therfore being able to make bus powered devices more easily.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, @The Weekend Warrior!
if it's only for the audio: 44khz * 16bit/sample = 704 kbit/s per channel.... 3 lossless stereo fits in USB1.1
Not to mention bandwidth has zero relevance to latency. USB 2.0 is sufficient for most audio interfaces, the only exception really being ones with huge amounts of I/O, in which case USB3/thunderbolt/PCIE is necessary. Thunderbolt is largely a gimmick when it comes to audio interfaces.
Exactly. These video's seem to give some basic info but totally skip over the actual practicallity and connects specific possibilites with specs it has nothing to do with... Usb 2.0 is very fast. Talking about usb 3 is just luxerious. Not to mention thunderbold....
You can run a full on cascaded Apollo X series setup to a thunderbolt 1 port, it’s well known no audio interface requires 40GB/second.
@AudioUniversity @20:00 He means that a single VSTi can use 1 single CPU core only, or that all the VSTis in a project can use one and the same CPU core? With other words, can multiple VSTis be spread over the multiple cores of a CPU? I guess we cannot ask him again and it remains to find that by ourselves...
2 - Another question I wanted to ask is: beside the bandwidth, which is related to the size of the data that you want to transfer, is there a difference between the speeds in which the 2 types of protocols transfer a very small packet of data (so small that makes the bandwidth irrelevant), from the input of a device to the computer (not taking into account the time it takes the AD/DA converters or the DSP to process that data)? Just the simple transit of the signal through a device, from the inputs of the device to the entry on the next device.
Thanks for your great videos, Kyle! I hope your channel remains the same and does not sacrifice the quality of the content for other things.
Excellent. Thank you
Great discussion guys. One question however my Mac mini has thunderbolt/USB 4 input and my presonus quantum 2626 has thunderbolt 3 output. I tried a tb3 cable and no connection will a tb4 cable connect the two ?
so, for focusrite i should buy type s to type s or thunderbold 3. better to buy in apple store? Thanks for your answer))
Odd how he says that vsts arent able to utilize multi-core architectures something about Steinberg because it's their codec. Like they haven't updated it vst3 by now, and if you look at cuebase benchmarks on multi core systems versus single car systems the CPU usage drops drastically, and lo and behold cuebase is a Steinberg product.
Anotherr thing some vst's are able to leverage the compute power of dedicated graphics cards now.
most drummers would feel 5 ms latency. none dsp is the best if you want to feel perfect sync with DAW, for example, for me it it is a big issue when finger drumming with metronom + delay FX which should be in sync
The 9 year old computer part made me lol, that's exactly how old my desktop is and I can run a ton of tracks and plugins all while keeping my buffer at 128 with a round trip latency of 9.6 ms... and yeah I know my rig is probably the exception but it was still a good laugh
Great video thanks. But it isn't - as always - as straightforward as you think it is, and how it comes across in the video. You still have to think about:
1. Power, well does it run by powered USB/TB? Today you have to think about all the countries different wall warts and main grid systems, and get a wall wart for each. If it is bus powered you only need the one for your laptop/macbook/iPad everywhere you go. Not to be neglected. Also, I've encountered "cleaner" recordings when all is self cointained, especially with electric guitars with single coil pickups, since the earth/ground is de-coupled from it all. Headphones and laptop, and soundcard. Only. No connection, the slightest, to the grid. Runs on "batteries" only. Cleaner DC offsets, so to speak.
2. You have to think about CORE audio drivers, ASIO drivers, WDM drivers and whatnot. Some works better on WIndows/PC than on Apple/Mac and the other way around too. And you're pretty much f****ed after you bought it and find it didn't turn out that well, regardless of what you did to fix it.
3. Most of you forget to think about playing "live" with a VST plugin, say Amp plugin, on top of backing tracks, stemmed from RUclips, Spotify, iTunes, Tidal, whatever, even a simple onboard wav file, or CD playing in background (if anyone has that anymore). On FW this works like a charm, but I have had problems on any USB (any versions). I had 2 different plugins going on, a MIDI keyboard connected through a VST synth plug in, The electric guitar connected to an VST Amp plugin, and a 2 track backing track. No additional latency at all, and no clicks. That is with an old FW M-audio Profire 610 card, on a MacBook pro from 2012. 10 years old now. I've tried to do that with a USB 3.1 card even, and it didn't turn out well. Unless you had latencies over the threshold where it's acceptable, like 15-20 ms without clicks from CPU.
4. The following test is a do-or-die test with all soundcards, regardless of TB/USB 3.1/FW. Since you brought up that the latency should matter after it is below a certain threshold. Like 5 ms. This is a niched thing scenario though, and may not be important to everyone. But I feel a difference when playing guitar through headphones, where there's hardly any travel of sound distance into your eardrum. It's when I play with a VST guitar plugin that has an digital or analog DELAY unit simulator built in. If I set to play a tempo delay set at 500 ms, and tries to play in tempo to it (U2 and so on, the dotted 8s delay thing) you can bet your ass that I am getting thrown off big time. Because there isn't any 500 ms delay time. It is IN the subesequent repeats, of the internal delay, but as fast as a new direct signal comes in from the guitar, it is 500 ms PLUS the conversion delay/latency, that gets added to the FIRST repeat of the delay, so say, if you have a roundtrip latency of 5 ms, the delay from the first signal to the second is 500+5 ms = the delay time is 505 ms. But the rest inside there is 500 ms, and believe me, it gets heard and gets muddy, and not tight enough. On real hardware delay pedals this is not a problem. And not on old analog delay pedals too. However, this is a niche esoteric thing but anyways. If the roundtrip latency goes down to 1-2 ms and below I can lock in closer and tigher and the repeats doesn't clutter up. The only real delay pedal today that does this perfectly is the Eventide Rose, which feedback loop delay goes in and out from the AD/DA before going in again, so if the delay is set to 500 ms, each successive repeat is exaclty 500 ms too, down to less than a millisecond.
However, keep in mind, the above is ONE (but one) reasons some have included DSP in their soundcards, to not to play havoc too much with delay latency while tracking and playing "live" with effects. There, and if you use that DSP, it's spot on. No problems then.
But, nevertheless, such things must be considered too.
Enjoyable conversation. Well done.
Thanks, Reginald. Glad you enjoyed it!
@@AudioUniversity Great, straightforward content. You've earned my sub.
So helpful👌
I suck; I use Audacity and a cheap USB 2 instrument cable to record. It definitely makes a difference; my recordings don't sound the same as playing live through my nearfields. I want to upgrade to a Behringer interface; then hopefully I'll be sipping Mad Dog in the gutter instead of rain water.
I just recently bought a focusrite scarlet 4i4 but I have a MacBook Air m1 with thunderbolt/usb4 ports. The focusrite scarlet 4i4 doesn’t come with a cable that has a usb-c on the other end. It only comes with usb-c to usb 2.0 Online reviews say use an apple adapter but some folks are saying it’s not the best. Other reviews say to use a usb-c to usb-c no longer than 2m. I’m wondering which chord I should buy and if you have a link to one that works with my setup. Should it be a usb-c to usb-c 3.1, 3.0, or 2.0 Thank you.
I have an older MacBook Pro that has USB 2.0, Thunderbolt, and FireWire. Using a Presonus Audiobox that is USB only. I have a lot of noise and popping etc. Wondering if I should get an interface that supports thunderbolt?
Thanks for information. Regards
My new M1 iMac arrives next week. I’m downsizing, and hopefully upgrading, from a 27” iMac (late 2015, Intel Core i5) that my SSL 2 audio interface and other peripherals are connected to. I am hoping to have a smooth transition.
I think you’ll love it! I’ve heard good things about the M1 chip! Let us know how it goes.
I just got mine a few weeks ago. Transitioned from an ATX PC, and I couldn't be happier with the increase in my workflow. Super solid little machine. It's lightning fast, quiet as a mouse, and it uses a fraction of the electricity that my PC used.
how does your mac m1 work with a usb sound card? Having audio problems using a buffer size of 32?
So if I’m buying a MacBook M1Pro with a Focusrite Solo I’d need an adapter? And by doing so latency goes up?
wrong question. "which well written driver should you use... regarldess of format." is the right question....:)
So can you use generic stock DAW plugins while using UA interfaces?
Hi I really liked the video and been struggling to find out if I should get DSP or USB.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro i5 2.5ghz 16 gb 256ssd
I have 100 instrumentals complete already mixed down and bounced ready for vocals ( i buy the instrumentals / beats online)
My ideal vocal chain would be Antares autotune artist ( formally autotune live and optimized for low latency performance ) and then the usual basics such as compression eq limiter gain delay and a nice reverb etc.
Would be only having around 3 stacks the main vocal and then another panned to left and another panned to right
I was considering the motu m2 which is supposed to be excellent for in latency with a round trip of 2.50ms and less if you install the drivers. Well I’m confused because someone told me that because I wanna use autotune I will need a Universal audio interface of some kind. and then to purchase autotune real-time plugin their version of itbecause on my set up they said the latency would be too bad to sing with it on hearing the effect and I wouldn’t be able to monitor it while recording let alone play in a live performance ( small gig like a house party or a small bar/ restaurant ).
I only have ONE chance to get this choice right the First time. Already have microphone and everything else. So could you pleeeaaasssee tell me if It would work with a USB interface like motu m2 with Antares artist or even waves tune real time? I’ve also considered getting a older thunderbolt2 interface like the zoom tac 2 for example, but I’m worried cause they don’t even sell it anymore and used price very cheap. or do i really have to save up for a UA audio interface and autotune real-time plug in
I prefer to monitor through my desktop PC DAW, so i use a PCIe souncard.. External soundcards just don't get the Ultra low latency that i can, which is 0.500ms, running at 24/96 and buffers at 32samples... This basically means i can record/monitor in real time directly from my recording software (cubase-calkwalk-pro tools)... The other upside is the amount of max channels, plugins per channel and soft synths etc i can run.. Also, touching on your reference to noticeable latency times; 3-5ms latency is equivalent to a 16th note in musical terms.. 5-10ms latency is equivalent to about an 8th note musically... and anything above 12ms is like having an echo machine..
Why are you making music in 4000BPM? Lol. 3-5ms for a 16th note is unbelievably fast.
@@DaDandyman funny... :)+
U gave me an idea! I had never ever thought that I should use an internal audio card. I have yet to find a how-to video about how to connect my guitars to the internal sound card, and how an internal sound card works differently from an external audio interface. I wanna achieve the lowest latency possible. Thanx for your comment!
@@gordospeti generally you would use a mixing desk or a patch bay of some sort.. some internal soundcards have multi i/o on a break out box...