Thanks. All 4 Roussel's symphonies are brilliant. In fact, not just his symphonies. He was a genius and his name should have been a household name among lovers of classical music.
All four Roussel symphonies are great. I love the divertimento aspect of 3 & 4, but there's a touch of that in the scherzo of No. 2 too. I would love to hear it live.
Roussel’s #2 is a true masterpiece, and I agree that it is even better than the third. Aqueous and very salty is a good description. I love anchovies, maybe that’s why I love the 2nd. I also enjoy how it defies the stereotype that French music is necessarily light and FLUFFy. I love fluff on occasion, but there’s a lot of great, weighty French music too. The Naxos big box of Roussel’s orchestral works is something everyone should have in their collection. I’m going to keep on listening and tackle the Martinon soon.
I would love to hear your story of discovery with this work, and how you came to know it so well. I love this symphony. So much that I stash my cash at home between the scores of the 2nd and 3rd. I first encountered it while playing at a summer music festival as a 14 year-old student. I was completely transfixed by it, and it totally funneled my future musical path and interests. At that point it was impossible for me to find a recording of it other than the crappy cassette from our live performance, and I remember somehow learning that the Janowski on RCA was coming out. I called the record shops repeatedly to ask if they had it in stock and bought it immediately when it was released. Discovering all of his symphonies on a new fresh disc brought me so much joy, but I listened to the 2nd hundreds of times. I have every release of this work, and it is funny to hear your perspective on the Janowski because it is the one I became first acquainted with! In comparison, I found the Eschenbach too broad when I got it a few years later. I played Bacchus with Deneve around the time he was releasing the Naxos cycle - I told him of my love for the 2nd, and he actually gave a copy of the first edit of the 2nd and asked for notes! The Martinon recording really is fabulous. During quarantine and knowing that I will never again play this piece in orchestra 😞, I found an old 4-hand piano reduction of the symphony (old as in brown brittle pages from the 1920s) so I could play at home. Figuring out how Roussel creates such murky and specific colors and textures really is a joy. It is quite different and out of this world, even for Roussel. Thanks for taking the time to discuss such wonderful music and bringing it to people’s attention! Very valuable!
Enjoyed your food analogies! To stay with those I would describe Roussel’s Second Symphony as a curate’s egg! I have Deneve’s recordings of Roussel’s orchestral works and agree that the Second Symphony is underrated. It is great, if I still prefer the Third and even the Fourth. Thanks for your enlightening talk!
I bought the Naxos/Deneve box of the 4 Roussel symphonies based on your earlier video and enjoyed them all, particularly the last 3, and have the other Deneve disc with The Spider's Banquet on order. I've been listening to other French music you've done videos on via the Fremaux Icon box with his City of Birmingham Symphony recordings, including Le Cid and other ballet music by Massenet and the Bizet Symphony in C. Thanks for highlighting so much great but relatively unappreciated music from outside the Germanic core repertory; it has broadened my musical horizons.
I can't disagree with you. That's a really special work. It's even more interesting because it's a transition piece, acting like a bridge between his impressionist style and the neoclassical and quirky one. Another work I would consider the best French symphony (or at least my favorite) is Magnard's splendid 4th Symphony, and curiously that work also ends quietly, though that magical and ethereal ending fits quite well I must say.
Oh my, that is just an amazing and deeply moving piece (and haunting and disturbing too). I am so glad I've heard it and that's all thanks to you Dave. Marvellous introduction to the work. I listened closely to Deneve and RSNO - taking a bit of time between movements helped. It's not dense but there is SO much in it. These talks have kept me sane as we have been lockdown in England for so long now. You don't know how much they mean to me. This one is a gem.
Alastair Cornforth Thanks so much for a really interesting talk about a work which perhaps does not reveal its secrets immediately. After many years I revisited this work following your comments and now realise what I had been missing. There's a great Naxos recording now of another great underplayed French second symphony by Vincent D' Indy. Like the Roussel this has a motto theme but this is transformed into a thrilling chorale in the finale. Would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on another French masterwork. Thanks for all you splendid videos which have helped to make lockdown more bearable here in the UK.
I can just imagine you running down to the corner market to get Vienna Sausage and Makeral to use as your next props. That's awesome! . . . the last note of the bass motto (at the start) is a 'tritone' (augmented 4th) from its previous note. F.Y.I. . . . . I've forgotten how marvelous that middle movement is. I love Jean Martinon!
Great talk on a rather elusive but fascinating work. Btw, when are you going to do a video on Alfredo Casella? He is one of the most criminally underrated 20th century composers imo.
I seriously need to revisit this symphony (and the other three as well!), possibly in a newer, fresher reading (I bought and listened to Dutoit years ago, when maybe the Eschenbach and Denève recordings didn't even exist). Roussel is another long-time interest of mine, and another one of those (I think) not-exactly-unknown-but-deserving-more-credit composers. He's always engaging and stimulating, even in his smaller works.
@@murraylow4523 Or even the ballet-ending versions of both the 1911 and 1947 editions of the Stravinsky Petrouchka // Sibelius 6 // Tschaikowskiy "Manfred" (original ending) // Vaughn Williams "A London Symphony" // R. Strauss, many of the tone poems // etc.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies where summer is coming to an end. Thanks for your advocacy of the R2 which I will chase down. I don't know it. I have Martinon somewhere. Needless to say your double exposition of BBBRRRUUUCCCKKKNNNEEERRR was magisterial. Best wishes, B
Dave - Having the company of your wonderful chats every day has been a blessing throughout the long pandemic age. There's one great composer I don't think you've touched on, though perhaps I've missed it -- Purcell. How about a session devoted to his major works with recommended recordings of each? I'd be very grateful.
Went to Shura Cherkassky's 80th Birthday concert in Manchester in the early 90's. It was conducted by another pianist, Jean Bernard Pommier. The second half of the concert contained a performance of this Symphony. During the interval I overheard a conversation between the principal flautist of the Halle Orchestra and a friend who was in the audience, the flute player described the piece as 'a 40 minute bore'. I have to say I do prefer the 3rd, perhaps I need to revisit the 2nd.
Never listen to orchestral musicians. They seldom have any idea what they are talking about and only know the music from the perspective of their own instrument.
@@DavesClassicalGuide OK, good advice. Many thanks for the talks, immensely engaging. You are now near the top of my list for dinner guests, but please no SPAM or MARSHMALLOW! Off now to sample some Riisager.
Deneve conducts in Philadelphia a lot. Philly, like many places in America has a lot of French influence if you look around, from our City Hall and Benjamin Franklin Parkway to the Barnes Collection with 56 or so Renoir paintings.
I prefer corned beef . Or sardines in water. LOL I went to a store and I found the Roussel symphonies conducted by Marek Janowski. Is it a good buy? (I will surely buy one of your suggestions, anyway).
You could consider Cesar Franck's one as French? Because i think that is probably alongside with Saint Saens the most notorious effort made in the 19th century in french sinfonism.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I mean, notorious. There is quite few french symphonic repertoire dating back to the 19th century and practically none of them are played or listened in concert halls. Not even the Sinfonie Rome of Bizet. Probably the only exception would be Berlioz, that at his time was considered odd and bizarre. Recently i heard the first symphonic attempt by Gounod when he was a student. Not bad for a begginer.
Could you have the kindness of granting us (if you want) with a video dedicated to Spanish orchestral music? Or maybe the Latin Americans far away Villa Lobos. Thanks and keep listening.
I've done videos dedicated to Villa-Lobos, Falla, Albeniz, Mompou, Turina, Orbon, Chavez, Ginastera--my 2020 Album of the Year was the complete Villa-Lobos symphonies. Please use the dedicated playlists or search function on my channel home page to find these, and enjoy!
The symphonic poem _Pour_ _une_ _fête_ _de_ _printemps_ was originally intended as another movement of the Second Symphony, but Roussel excised it on the grounds that it would have made the work overlong. Perhaps he would have been forgiven the symphony's quiet ending if he had included it!
By the way, I would recommend early Roussel (before Roussel became fully Rousselian) to your viewers. The First Symphony, _Le_ _marchand_ _de_ _sable_ _qui_ _passe_ and _Évocations_ (not included in the Naxos series) are exquisite works.
HI David, Isn't this how we originally met way back when in NYC. I joined the percussion section (timpani?) of an orchestra you were playing in for this piece. It was your suggestion to the conductor that got it programmed if my memory serves me right.
Why do you insist on this fluff and spam schlock? It undercuts the value and integrity of whatever you claim to be doing in support of Massenet or Roussel! I suppose you think this is clever, but it comes off as a sign of contempt for the composer and the music, despite your claims to care about the music. We don't see an idiotic cans of spam in Bruckner videos -- only videos about French music! We don't see bottles of pasta sauce for videos about Italian music. Poor Massenet and Roussel -- you're as condescending as the Germans & Austrians.
Thank you so much, Dave, for bringing up this absolutely gorgeous symphony to my attention! I will listen to the other Roussell symphonies as well.
Thanks. All 4 Roussel's symphonies are brilliant. In fact, not just his symphonies. He was a genius and his name should have been a household name among lovers of classical music.
What a wonderful appreciation of Roussel! Thank you, Mr. Hurwitz!
Got to know the symphony thanks to this video. Boy, how I do not regret it. It's absolutely fantastic. Thank you, David!
My pleasure!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you include Berlioz, when you say that?
@@Musicamansa Yes.
You’re right. It is great. And based on your recommendation and listening to symphonies 2 and 3, I bought the 4 cd Deneve box.
All four Roussel symphonies are great. I love the divertimento aspect of 3 & 4, but there's a touch of that in the scherzo of No. 2 too. I would love to hear it live.
Thoroughly enjoyed the food metaphor! Funny stuff
Roussel’s #2 is a true masterpiece, and I agree that it is even better than the third. Aqueous and very salty is a good description. I love anchovies, maybe that’s why I love the 2nd. I also enjoy how it defies the stereotype that French music is necessarily light and FLUFFy. I love fluff on occasion, but there’s a lot of great, weighty French music too.
The Naxos big box of Roussel’s orchestral works is something everyone should have in their collection. I’m going to keep on listening and tackle the Martinon soon.
I would love to hear your story of discovery with this work, and how you came to know it so well. I love this symphony. So much that I stash my cash at home between the scores of the 2nd and 3rd. I first encountered it while playing at a summer music festival as a 14 year-old student. I was completely transfixed by it, and it totally funneled my future musical path and interests. At that point it was impossible for me to find a recording of it other than the crappy cassette from our live performance, and I remember somehow learning that the Janowski on RCA was coming out. I called the record shops repeatedly to ask if they had it in stock and bought it immediately when it was released. Discovering all of his symphonies on a new fresh disc brought me so much joy, but I listened to the 2nd hundreds of times.
I have every release of this work, and it is funny to hear your perspective on the Janowski because it is the one I became first acquainted with! In comparison, I found the Eschenbach too broad when I got it a few years later. I played Bacchus with Deneve around the time he was releasing the Naxos cycle - I told him of my love for the 2nd, and he actually gave a copy of the first edit of the 2nd and asked for notes! The Martinon recording really is fabulous.
During quarantine and knowing that I will never again play this piece in orchestra 😞, I found an old 4-hand piano reduction of the symphony (old as in brown brittle pages from the 1920s) so I could play at home. Figuring out how Roussel creates such murky and specific colors and textures really is a joy. It is quite different and out of this world, even for Roussel. Thanks for taking the time to discuss such wonderful music and bringing it to people’s attention! Very valuable!
Definitively best listening tip ever
Enjoyed your food analogies! To stay with those I would describe Roussel’s Second Symphony as a curate’s egg! I have Deneve’s recordings of Roussel’s orchestral works and agree that the Second Symphony is underrated. It is great, if I still prefer the Third and even the Fourth. Thanks for your enlightening talk!
I bought the Naxos/Deneve box of the 4 Roussel symphonies based on your earlier video and enjoyed them all, particularly the last 3, and have the other Deneve disc with The Spider's Banquet on order. I've been listening to other French music you've done videos on via the Fremaux Icon box with his City of Birmingham Symphony recordings, including Le Cid and other ballet music by Massenet and the Bizet Symphony in C. Thanks for highlighting so much great but relatively unappreciated music from outside the Germanic core repertory; it has broadened my musical horizons.
Albrich Magnard symphony #4 a favorite French symphony. And I like to compare Roussel's 2nd with Eduard Tubin's 2nd "Legendary".
I can't disagree with you. That's a really special work. It's even more interesting because it's a transition piece, acting like a bridge between his impressionist style and the neoclassical and quirky one. Another work I would consider the best French symphony (or at least my favorite) is Magnard's splendid 4th Symphony, and curiously that work also ends quietly, though that magical and ethereal ending fits quite well I must say.
Oh my, that is just an amazing and deeply moving piece (and haunting and disturbing too). I am so glad I've heard it and that's all thanks to you Dave. Marvellous introduction to the work. I listened closely to Deneve and RSNO - taking a bit of time between movements helped. It's not dense but there is SO much in it. These talks have kept me sane as we have been lockdown in England for so long now. You don't know how much they mean to me. This one is a gem.
Thank you so much!
Alastair Cornforth
Thanks so much for a really interesting talk about a work which perhaps does not reveal its secrets immediately. After many years I revisited this work following your comments and now realise what I had been missing.
There's a great Naxos recording now of another great underplayed French second symphony by Vincent D' Indy. Like the Roussel this has a motto theme but this is transformed into a thrilling chorale in the finale. Would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on another French masterwork.
Thanks for all you splendid videos which have helped to make lockdown more bearable here in the UK.
I can just imagine you running down to the corner market to get Vienna Sausage and Makeral to use as your next props. That's awesome! . . . the last note of the bass motto (at the start) is a 'tritone' (augmented 4th) from its previous note. F.Y.I. . . . . I've forgotten how marvelous that middle movement is. I love Jean Martinon!
Great talk on a rather elusive but fascinating work. Btw, when are you going to do a video on Alfredo Casella? He is one of the most criminally underrated 20th century composers imo.
I seriously need to revisit this symphony (and the other three as well!), possibly in a newer, fresher reading (I bought and listened to Dutoit years ago, when maybe the Eschenbach and Denève recordings didn't even exist).
Roussel is another long-time interest of mine, and another one of those (I think) not-exactly-unknown-but-deserving-more-credit composers. He's always engaging and stimulating, even in his smaller works.
People don't seem to be too bothered by the quiet ending of Tchaikovsky's sixth at the end of a concert either.
Or Mahler 4
@@murraylow4523 Or even the ballet-ending versions of both the 1911 and 1947 editions of the Stravinsky Petrouchka // Sibelius 6 // Tschaikowskiy "Manfred" (original ending) // Vaughn Williams "A London Symphony" // R. Strauss, many of the tone poems // etc.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies where summer is coming to an end. Thanks for your advocacy of the R2 which I will chase down. I don't know it. I have Martinon somewhere. Needless to say your double exposition of BBBRRRUUUCCCKKKNNNEEERRR was magisterial. Best wishes, B
Roussel's 2nd, that what I always said!
Dave - Having the company of your wonderful chats every day has been a blessing throughout the long pandemic age. There's one great composer I don't think you've touched on, though perhaps I've missed it -- Purcell. How about a session devoted to his major works with recommended recordings of each? I'd be very grateful.
At some point I'd like to say something about him, but to be honest, I find him to be overrated--a big fish in a small pond.
Went to Shura Cherkassky's 80th Birthday concert in Manchester in the early 90's. It was conducted by another pianist, Jean Bernard Pommier. The second half of the concert contained a performance of this Symphony. During the interval I overheard a conversation between the principal flautist of the Halle Orchestra and a friend who was in the audience, the flute player described the piece as 'a 40 minute bore'. I have to say I do prefer the 3rd, perhaps I need to revisit the 2nd.
Never listen to orchestral musicians. They seldom have any idea what they are talking about and only know the music from the perspective of their own instrument.
@@DavesClassicalGuide OK, good advice. Many thanks for the talks, immensely engaging. You are now near the top of my list for dinner guests, but please no SPAM or MARSHMALLOW! Off now to sample some Riisager.
@@DavesClassicalGuide you're so right!!
Deneve conducts in Philadelphia a lot. Philly, like many places in America has a lot of French influence if you look around, from our City Hall and Benjamin Franklin Parkway to the Barnes Collection with 56 or so Renoir paintings.
I prefer corned beef . Or sardines in water. LOL I went to a store and I found the Roussel symphonies conducted by Marek Janowski. Is it a good buy? (I will surely buy one of your suggestions, anyway).
They are only so-so.
Everyone plays #3 because it is opus 42 (the number which is, according to Douglas Adams, the answer to life, the universe, and everything...)^^
You could consider Cesar Franck's one as French? Because i think that is probably alongside with Saint Saens the most notorious effort made in the 19th century in french sinfonism.
Yes, he is effectively French. "Notrious," yes, and a wonderful work, but "greatest?" No. That's Roussel 2.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I mean, notorious. There is quite few french symphonic repertoire dating back to the 19th century and practically none of them are played or listened in concert halls. Not even the Sinfonie Rome of Bizet. Probably the only exception would be Berlioz, that at his time was considered odd and bizarre. Recently i heard the first symphonic attempt by Gounod when he was a student. Not bad for a begginer.
Could you have the kindness of granting us (if you want) with a video dedicated to Spanish orchestral music? Or maybe the Latin Americans far away Villa Lobos. Thanks and keep listening.
I've done videos dedicated to Villa-Lobos, Falla, Albeniz, Mompou, Turina, Orbon, Chavez, Ginastera--my 2020 Album of the Year was the complete Villa-Lobos symphonies. Please use the dedicated playlists or search function on my channel home page to find these, and enjoy!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you.
The symphonic poem _Pour_ _une_ _fête_ _de_ _printemps_ was originally intended as another movement of the Second Symphony, but Roussel excised it on the grounds that it would have made the work overlong. Perhaps he would have been forgiven the symphony's quiet ending if he had included it!
By the way, I would recommend early Roussel (before Roussel became fully Rousselian) to your viewers. The First Symphony, _Le_ _marchand_ _de_ _sable_ _qui_ _passe_ and _Évocations_ (not included in the Naxos series) are exquisite works.
HI David, Isn't this how we originally met way back when in NYC. I joined the percussion section (timpani?) of an orchestra you were playing in for this piece. It was your suggestion to the conductor that got it programmed if my memory serves me right.
Hello there. I think that was Roussel 3rd.
Why do you insist on this fluff and spam schlock? It undercuts the value and integrity of whatever you claim to be doing in support of Massenet or Roussel! I suppose you think this is clever, but it comes off as a sign of contempt for the composer and the music, despite your claims to care about the music. We don't see an idiotic cans of spam in Bruckner videos -- only videos about French music! We don't see bottles of pasta sauce for videos about Italian music. Poor Massenet and Roussel -- you're as condescending as the Germans & Austrians.
Is your comment "sour grapes", nit-picking, egregious mis-applied overstatement, or merely an indication of your lack of a capacity to "lighten up"?