I have v13 and live in Chicago. Tesla navigation always screws up and confuses lower and upper wacker. I think navigation mapping is what is now holding FSD back.
From engineering standpoint they are likely trying to avoid using maps as a crutch. Once you start using maps it is easy to overuse them and get stuck in local maxima.
Thank you for letting us know that you were using assertive mode in this latest test. I’m still reluctant to switch to that mode as I have been using average for the most part
I have found V13 reacts much more quickly to changes in traffic speed. It glides to a stop much more smoothly. Overall a big improvement. The improvement may not have come through as much in difficult city traffic like Chicago. I think the FST team has been working hard on city driving for a long time and the higher resolution cameras aren't as relevant since the speeds are lower and streets are tighter.
The step from 12 to 13 for me in my new 25 m3p was game changing. I stopped using 12, too many issues, very jerky and many disengagement. I literally use 13 all the time now, it drives so smooths, its like a chauffeur is driving me around and its very rare I disengage.
You definitely need to drive it more to appreciate the unbelievable difference. I don’t doubt your disengagements, but you need to see the other things that it does which previous versions did not do. And you, more than anyone, should know that the appreciation only comes after you’ve driven it for a good amount of time. Please drive it a lot more and give it another review. Thanks for your review.
I wish this were a comparison of 12.6 and 13.2.2, but hopefully soon. The one guy who has done video with 12.6 hw3 the car was smoother and wheel not jerky. Hope you get 12.6 soon, TechGeek Tesla.
Original FSD 10.2 and just traded my HW3 for HW4 on Dec 20 and also live in the middle of a large city (ATL). Yes you are missing out. In everyday driving V13/HW4 is miles more convenient, confident, predictive, human like and WAY more comfortable (smooth as butter) than HW3/V12. If you drove for several hours on HW4/V13 you would never want to go back to the limited jerk fest of HW3/V12. Also turn off Brake Confirmation so all you do is push and hold to start.
One thing my model 3 did with v13 a few days ago is it got out of the slow lane to go around an emergency vehicle that was stopped with lights on in the median.
the inside front camera glass needs to be cleaned with alcohol wipes, you can see the hazebuilt up between those defog lines. trust me it makes a huge difference to clean it. no sun glare takeovers.
I believe the separate "start FSD from park" setting is a liability issue. Most of the Tesla fleet has a front bumper blind spot. With that setting the driver must take liability for ensuring there is nothing in front of the car before enabling FSD and moving forward. Remember when they first turned on ASS the car backed up 2 - 3 feet before going forward. Tesla is well aware of this issue and they are currently putting the liability on the driver (even with ASS). Which is a big reason I don't think the existing fleet will become truly driverless with "just a software update" and that AI5 will be necessary for robotaxi. The Cybercab and the refreshed Model Y both reportedly have front bumper cameras, which isn't necessary for 99.x% of FSD driving but is necessary for countless driverless scenarios. Blind spots are a big issue with today's big cars, the goal should be zero blind spots and zero blind spot related accidents / tragedies. It is a solvable problem for the autonomous machine.
Good test. chicago underground is the benchmark :) I think hw3 v13 will still have much of the benefits despite being a smaller ned running lower fps. Much of the improvement comes from the training setup and data, not just net size. But v13 will triple in net size on HW4 still so the gap can widen. It would be my guess that these much bigger nets will start to memorize locations rather than just build general skills so that can be a hard trick for HW3 to follow.
I been driving for 40 years and I honestly don't think I could handle that navigation - would take a couple weeks to get the hang of it. I often wondered if there was a way to do a 'live' training for Tesla where u put the car in training mode and handle the tricky situations manually and send the data back to Tesla to learn from a human how to handle it
i like the new type of view for this video, the screen blend in with the road. that seem 1st time you recording this way if i recalled. lots of clear view of road.
This is how you test FSD 👏🏼 yeah my fomo lowered at bit as well now. Map data is the next big hurdle in my opinion. Looking forward to your 12.6 content!
I’m in Australia, just have autopilot. It gets confused in tunnels, even though the navigation route includes tunnels, it still thinks it’s on the surface. They really need to do something about this. If the route is underground, use that mapping and speeds.
Glare is still an issue. The only way to remedy this issue is for FSD to have longer memory of what it wants to accomplish. The only downside of this is that anything could happen or change within that instance - such as a pedestrian walking out onto the road or a cyclist zooming past. It's a very tough balance of what FSD should do. At this moment, since it's supervised, requesting an immediate take over is the right call though unfavorable at the cost of User Experience. For their CyberCab, I hope they do implement more expensive and redundant hardware to counter this. Another thought I had was for their front (and perhaps rear) facing camera to utilize gyro correction / self-leveling. This would help in extreme uphill or downhill crest situations.
😊 I traded my 2018 Model 3 August 23 taking advantage of the FSD Free Transfer. I must say that the inclusion of HW4 in my new 23 Model Y was the closer to the deal. After getting Version 13 last month, I'm really glad that I did. Version 13 is the bomb. Just last year I would have never thought this much improvement would be possible. It's still not perfect, there's still a long way to go with the driving understanding of human obstructions. Such as Emergency Vehicles, School Buses, Construction detours, hand signals, Traffic Signs such as No Right Turn On Red, and a host of numerous more driving situations that come up that are not normal driving conditions. If all conditions are normal, the car acts perfectly. I already had 1 update to V13.2.2. It's amazing how smoothly the car drives over Version 12. I really hope they make it work like this for the HW3 cars soon. I'm spoiled now and I need this in my 22 Model S.
Ok. I never drive in Chicago or anywhere with multi-level roads. I would call that an edge case. Drive around Schaumburg, Des Plaines or any normal towns, even Chicago (-Wacker dr). And you will see what everyone else sees. 0 intervention, 0 disengagement drives. Tesla need to send out some engineers to look at Wacher drive like they look at Chucks upl. This make Chucks turn look like a piece of cake.
My definition of an edge case is different than yours. Sure this is very uncommon but it’s not Chicago specific. If the idea (which I hope comes true) is to set up a huge self driving taxi service, it needs to get the navigation right in the biggest cities in the US. This isn’t a temporary reroute that needs to be learned in a case by case basis. This is permanent infrastructure of one of the largest cities in the US. Just my opinion compared to yours.
I wonder how they will get over the sun glare problem, you can't have a robotaxi say take over now because of sun glare. Any idea how this could be fixed on current vehicles? No robotaxi rides at sunrise and sunset?
@@pranshukrishna5105Waymo doesn't have teleoperators steering the car due to latency. If a Waymo gets stuck, it can request assistance, and a teleoperator can give it waypoints or suggestions.
I have 13.2.2 and hardware four in a model S. I have to say that it has been incredibly phenomenal. I am very skeptical and, even though I was an early adapter with one of the first few thousand vehicles more than 12 years ago, I am still skeptical about Tesla in general. Nonetheless, this iteration has been incredible. I am heading into the city of Chicago today and we’ll see how it does. I have not touched the steering wheel in a span of 10 days so far. It even backs out of my garage. The only time I do have to operate the vehicle personally is to put it back into the garage.
I agree with you. No one has ever done this in human history! Great technology takes time. This was incredibly challenging. Been driving my AI3 M3LR for 4 years now. I can wait. To those missing V13 just imagine V14 or V15, you will be missing that also for a while. Literally; enjoy the ride! Thanks for your work on this channel.
For the most part, the only time I have to intervene with FSD 13 on HW4 2023 MYLR is when the map data is inaccurate. Prior to v13 I would commute to work and have to disengage v12 2-3 times so that I could report FSD issues that needed to be addressed. The biggest one was driving too fast, even speeding up, when it should be using regen due to an obvious red light ahead, or coming down and exit ramp with stop sigh at bottom. v12 would continue essentially highway speeds down the ramp till just a very short distance from the stop sign and then would have to use the mechanical breaks as regen at that point was not able to bring the car to a stop in time. If I was driving the same route I had not problem keeping a good speed down the ramp while allowing regen through one-pedal driving to bring me to a smooth stop at the correct spot without engaging the mechanical brakes. v13 now drives just like I would. And in hurry mode it is amazing when on any road with multiple lanes in the direction of travel. It zips around cars in a very controlled and decisive manner. Again, where FSD seems to fail now is when the navigation data lacks precision or is simply inaccurate. Like telling FSD it is okay to stay in the left lane as you approach a traffic light in town where the left lane is for left-turn only. It will move over at the last minute while proceeding through the intersection scaring the bejeezes out of anyone who is in the oncoming left-turn only lane:(! Yet when you come back the other direction at the same light with the same left-turn only lane the navigation system always tells the Tesla to get in the right lane well before negotiating the intersection. So something is off on the navigation data in one direction but not the other. BUT, v13 is amazing. I now use it to commute to work daily without ever a need to intervene except at final location. At work, I disengage once in the parking lot so I can choose the spot. And at home, I disengage so I can back in to my driveway and then into my carport so I can plug in the charger. Other than that, FSD v13 drives me to and from work through residential, highway, and multi-lane secondary roads without issue. Simply, amazing!!! I will say, that I think this video's comparison is different than my experience. The smoothness of turns, lack of hesitation when negotiating intersections, etc is so human like as compared to v12 there really is vast improvement in the overall feel of every drive - poor navigation data aside.
I wish Teslas didn't sound like they are falling apart on big potholes. The Y sounds awful at 39:36 pothole. My expectations for 12.6.? that finally comes to my HW3 3 are pretty low. All I'm hoping for is better E2E on the highway. Any smoothness is appreciated. There is still a lot of hopeium in the short term for driverless RT's. My HW4 FOMO has abated. I'll wait for Tesla to upgrade me in several years to 4, 4.5 or HW5. Thanks for the vid.
Great video! Nice to see that my Hotel in Chicago is challenging FSD to the max! I would do a camera cleaning anyway. Maybe the lens itself is dirty, because the warning message showed clearly glare through dirt. What is a bit disappointing for me is that the general AI still has to come a long way to solve problems that human drivers do easily like identifying the green light on the top road as non relevant. I’d not agree that this should be solved with better map data, maybe short term, it should be solved by a strong general AI.
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We have a model y HW3 and a model Y with HW4 thank goodness my wife switched me cars and I get to drive the HW4 car with V13 I think it is night and day difference
I have 13.2.2.1, and I agree that 13 is not much better than the last versions of 12. I drive Chill with 0% speed offset, and it is still far from the defensive driving that I would hope for. In addition, it made a poor choice this week on a blind-ish right turn with oncoming traffic, which had not happened in prior versions. It seems like each update has both gains and losses. It's nice that it pulls out of parking spaces, but when it chooses to pull into traffic without accelerating sufficiently, we're trading a parlor trick for a safety risk.
they seem to be going for a breadth first, "feature complete" strategy that is mildly competent at every feature and will have to ratchet up the content per "feature" to push it over the line to robotaxi. which to me means just wait to buy whatever hw elon puts into the cybercab.
like there is a reason they aren't just upgrading hw3 to hw4 right now....i think there is a chance that hw4's will be rug pulled because Telsa has no idea how much content will be necessary to to go beyond human driver ON EVERY SINGLE ROAD AND SCENARIO.
Thanks, I've been waiting to see how 13.2.2 goes with Chicago's levels. I hope Tesla is working with mapping authorities and providers towards improving quality, with a global view. Solve once, solve for the solution to work anywhere. On the HW3 issue, I'm sceptical about HW3 being sufficient in the longer term, looking at V14 and beyond. If the HW is swapped out, it would surely be better to roll out HW5, or at least offer HW4 to HW5 upgrades and use the freed up HW4s to replace HW3s. As I'm assuming HW5 is already or very soon will be the only version manufactured from here. I look forward to future Chicago tests as new FSD versions roll out 😎
The problem I can see with FSD, is that it can see , it can recognise , but it cannot reason like a human , it would be similar someone who is driving absent mindedly , the driver is driving okay most of time using muscle memory , but put that person in a unusual situation then mistakes happen , end to end neuronet , if it see something it hasn’t seen or been trained before , it cannot reason its way out of it. This is a problem is the traffic or road design is slightly unusual or uncommon
I have been using FSD13.2.2.1 for about two weeks in heavy rains. I had to take control for 8-10 times not more. The only issue is navigation. If tesla fixes the navigation it fixes autonomy
Well just me observing different videos. There weren't many difficult situations except navigation issues with the lower level. So v12 would probably get the job done similarly. I see v13 handling difficult and or busy situations with cars or pedestrians much better. Speed control is usually much better (faster) Less hesitating when making a maneuver. Much better snow driving. And of course parking and reverse.
As always, your honest FSD reviews are much appreciated! So many disengagements and interventions on this short drive around town. People that say Level 5 Full Autonomy is coming soon are delusional. FSD cannot be relied upon in busy big cities in January of 2025.
in my opinion v13 (on non cybertruck model S vehicles) is way better than v12. This drive doesnt demonstrate it since failures are because of map issues which are not fixed on purpose. (Using maps as a crutch prevents problems from actually being solved and you get stuck in local maximas) Other videos show what v13 is capable of and it can handle really complex situations where fsd 12 falls short. V13 will also get 3x longer context window in a future update(so it will plan for 3x the distance) this can solve quite a bit of navigation issues.
@@princeofexcess can’t wait for the future. In the limited time that I had, with the nav issues aside, I didn’t find anything that was significantly better than v12. Unfortunately. And I say that with a heavy heart because I believe what others are saying. I really wanted to witness something incredible and noticeably different, but I didn’t.
@@techgeektesla We need people still demonstrating the failures. Honest videos with failures are the best ones since they show where the system is lacking. The nav failures i am seeing do not worry me. It might be a while before they are solved but tesla is not solving them on purpose. They are trying to imitate human driving and humans do not use special maps. Once solved it will allow the car to drive everywhere including places where map data is bad. The red light issue is a critical failure that worries me much more but I also think those issues will be resolved quickly.
In this segment of your vid ruclips.net/user/clipUgkxjpr5TkiGp26uZsyxMvM6j7-mkIQJQeSw?si=vUk-FTy8D6RlGvCp for some reason, the Profile information disappeared on the upper left corner of the display of your friend's Model Y; appeared to be in a 30-MPH zone. I heard you said it's a new Model Y, so it might be equipped with the AI4.1 FSD computer that reportedly been experiencing problems in the real world. Edited to say: My MYP, Fremont-manufactured, Feb 2024, shortly before Tesla's mass layoffs last year, has much improved forward speed control operating under FSD (Supervised) v13.2.2 comparing with v12, as can be seen in this vid ruclips.net/video/MglXGueAb0Q/видео.htmlsi=ckXp_hVUCtQEgnet set to Hurry on approach to 4-Way stop (no hesitation at all), then Standard (33 MAX), and ending with Chill (33 MAX) at 31 MPH in a 30-MPH zone.
Anyone who says that v13 is "robotaxi" ready is being hyperbolic. FSD continues to get better, especially now that they are training on and for HW4, but it is not yet ready for DRIVERLESS. It isn't about what it can do, which is a lot, it is about what it still CAN'T DO, which is also A LOT (e.g. 1% of situations is A LOT, 0.1% of situations is a lot). There's still a lot of training left to do and I don't think FSD will really be fully driverless until AI5 which will essentially be v3 of the FSD hardware. They will make small improvements to the software for HW3 but it will be significantly less capable than HW4 due to the advanced cameras, processing, and storage. As will also be the case with AI5 vs HW4. This is no different than anything else in the tech world for the past 50+ years. The first versions of software and supporting hardware make significant jumps in ability in the initial versions then levels off before something completely new comes along.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful but you should stop saying you're unbiased. Being a human being that is unbiased is literally impossible. Maybe just reword it. You sound less like you're trying to say you're not biased and more like you're trying to talk back at some of the people in the comments. I don't know.. I don't want to come across as rude I just didn't think it was a very good look for such a great channel. Either way cheers and keep up the content.
@@BeyondTheApexMotorsport sorry to hear it came off as talking back too much to a heckler in the comments. It was not intentional. On YT I’m reaching to communicate to new viewers all the time and want to clarify my intention toward documenting all aspects of FSD early on. Maybe it’s not needed to mention after all. I appreciate the feedback!
I also, like other people, don’t feel that V13 on AI4 is anywhere near ready for unsupervised
I have v13 and live in Chicago. Tesla navigation always screws up and confuses lower and upper wacker. I think navigation mapping is what is now holding FSD back.
From engineering standpoint they are likely trying to avoid using maps as a crutch. Once you start using maps it is easy to overuse them and get stuck in local maxima.
tbh even humans have trouble. like wth is a wacker!? lol
Yeah I always get screwed with Wacker 😅😅
Agree. My area it is around turn lanes and speeds that are often wrong.
@@narmen1984thank you , I thought I was missing something
Thank you for letting us know that you were using assertive mode in this latest test. I’m still reluctant to switch to that mode as I have been using average for the most part
I have found V13 reacts much more quickly to changes in traffic speed. It glides to a stop much more smoothly. Overall a big improvement.
The improvement may not have come through as much in difficult city traffic like Chicago. I think the FST team has been working hard on city driving for a long time and the higher resolution cameras aren't as relevant since the speeds are lower and streets are tighter.
The step from 12 to 13 for me in my new 25 m3p was game changing. I stopped using 12, too many issues, very jerky and many disengagement. I literally use 13 all the time now, it drives so smooths, its like a chauffeur is driving me around and its very rare I disengage.
You definitely need to drive it more to appreciate the unbelievable difference. I don’t doubt your disengagements, but you need to see the other things that it does which previous versions did not do. And you, more than anyone, should know that the appreciation only comes after you’ve driven it for a good amount of time. Please drive it a lot more and give it another review. Thanks for your review.
I wish this were a comparison of 12.6 and 13.2.2, but hopefully soon. The one guy who has done video with 12.6 hw3 the car was smoother and wheel not jerky. Hope you get 12.6 soon, TechGeek Tesla.
@@pennyharris446 12.6 coming to Model 3/Y very soon. First rollout is going to S/X.
Original FSD 10.2 and just traded my HW3 for HW4 on Dec 20 and also live in the middle of a large city (ATL). Yes you are missing out. In everyday driving V13/HW4 is miles more convenient, confident, predictive, human like and WAY more comfortable (smooth as butter) than HW3/V12. If you drove for several hours on HW4/V13 you would never want to go back to the limited jerk fest of HW3/V12. Also turn off Brake Confirmation so all you do is push and hold to start.
This is the toughest FSD test I've seen.
Cool
@@techgeektesla will you purchase a car, ever, Considering Tesla will bring out AI4, Ai5, Ai6
I am using fsd ~98% of the time. V13 is better but still have some issues with it. It happy with it.
One thing my model 3 did with v13 a few days ago is it got out of the slow lane to go around an emergency vehicle that was stopped with lights on in the median.
I like how you take the trouble to retest if FSD can figure something out in that really difficult intersection (even if it failed again) ❤ great work
the inside front camera glass needs to be cleaned with alcohol wipes, you can see the hazebuilt up between those defog lines. trust me it makes a huge difference to clean it. no sun glare takeovers.
@@ChickyNugg good to know. Thanks.
I believe the separate "start FSD from park" setting is a liability issue. Most of the Tesla fleet has a front bumper blind spot. With that setting the driver must take liability for ensuring there is nothing in front of the car before enabling FSD and moving forward. Remember when they first turned on ASS the car backed up 2 - 3 feet before going forward. Tesla is well aware of this issue and they are currently putting the liability on the driver (even with ASS). Which is a big reason I don't think the existing fleet will become truly driverless with "just a software update" and that AI5 will be necessary for robotaxi. The Cybercab and the refreshed Model Y both reportedly have front bumper cameras, which isn't necessary for 99.x% of FSD driving but is necessary for countless driverless scenarios. Blind spots are a big issue with today's big cars, the goal should be zero blind spots and zero blind spot related accidents / tragedies. It is a solvable problem for the autonomous machine.
Good test. chicago underground is the benchmark :) I think hw3 v13 will still have much of the benefits despite being a smaller ned running lower fps. Much of the improvement comes from the training setup and data, not just net size. But v13 will triple in net size on HW4 still so the gap can widen. It would be my guess that these much bigger nets will start to memorize locations rather than just build general skills so that can be a hard trick for HW3 to follow.
I been driving for 40 years and I honestly don't think I could handle that navigation - would take a couple weeks to get the hang of it. I often wondered if there was a way to do a 'live' training for Tesla where u put the car in training mode and handle the tricky situations manually and send the data back to Tesla to learn from a human how to handle it
I agree. They should do that using the entire fleets data for non-autonomous driving.
We all need to send messages to Tesla/Elon asking for Lower Wacker Love :)
wow the inset "picture in picture" version 12 steering wheel is a brilliant idea
Wow your overlays are top notch now!!
i like the new type of view for this video, the screen blend in with the road. that seem 1st time you recording this way if i recalled. lots of clear view of road.
This is how you test FSD 👏🏼 yeah my fomo lowered at bit as well now. Map data is the next big hurdle in my opinion. Looking forward to your 12.6 content!
I’m in Australia, just have autopilot. It gets confused in tunnels, even though the navigation route includes tunnels, it still thinks it’s on the surface. They really need to do something about this. If the route is underground, use that mapping and speeds.
So no more FOMO (Fear of Missing Out). That’s good to know as I’ve had the same feelings.
This just proves the point the main issue really is map data, we definitely need a new way of getting faster map data
25:55 the left turn lane was totally irrelevant too as there where multiple lanes ahead. it was more of a "only turn left from this lane" marker :)
Glare is still an issue. The only way to remedy this issue is for FSD to have longer memory of what it wants to accomplish. The only downside of this is that anything could happen or change within that instance - such as a pedestrian walking out onto the road or a cyclist zooming past. It's a very tough balance of what FSD should do. At this moment, since it's supervised, requesting an immediate take over is the right call though unfavorable at the cost of User Experience.
For their CyberCab, I hope they do implement more expensive and redundant hardware to counter this. Another thought I had was for their front (and perhaps rear) facing camera to utilize gyro correction / self-leveling. This would help in extreme uphill or downhill crest situations.
😊 I traded my 2018 Model 3 August 23 taking advantage of the FSD Free Transfer. I must say that the inclusion of HW4 in my new 23 Model Y was the closer to the deal. After getting Version 13 last month, I'm really glad that I did. Version 13 is the bomb. Just last year I would have never thought this much improvement would be possible. It's still not perfect, there's still a long way to go with the driving understanding of human obstructions. Such as Emergency Vehicles, School Buses, Construction detours, hand signals, Traffic Signs such as No Right Turn On Red, and a host of numerous more driving situations that come up that are not normal driving conditions. If all conditions are normal, the car acts perfectly. I already had 1 update to V13.2.2. It's amazing how smoothly the car drives over Version 12.
I really hope they make it work like this for the HW3 cars soon. I'm spoiled now and I need this in my 22 Model S.
Ok. I never drive in Chicago or anywhere with multi-level roads. I would call that an edge case. Drive around Schaumburg, Des Plaines or any normal towns, even Chicago (-Wacker dr). And you will see what everyone else sees. 0 intervention, 0 disengagement drives. Tesla need to send out some engineers to look at Wacher drive like they look at Chucks upl. This make Chucks turn look like a piece of cake.
My definition of an edge case is different than yours. Sure this is very uncommon but it’s not Chicago specific. If the idea (which I hope comes true) is to set up a huge self driving taxi service, it needs to get the navigation right in the biggest cities in the US. This isn’t a temporary reroute that needs to be learned in a case by case basis. This is permanent infrastructure of one of the largest cities in the US. Just my opinion compared to yours.
I wonder how they will get over the sun glare problem, you can't have a robotaxi say take over now because of sun glare. Any idea how this could be fixed on current vehicles? No robotaxi rides at sunrise and sunset?
operator will be driving the car digitally, just like in Waymo(for safety reasons)
@@pranshukrishna5105Waymo doesn't have teleoperators steering the car due to latency. If a Waymo gets stuck, it can request assistance, and a teleoperator can give it waypoints or suggestions.
I have 13.2.2 and hardware four in a model S. I have to say that it has been incredibly phenomenal. I am very skeptical and, even though I was an early adapter with one of the first few thousand vehicles more than 12 years ago, I am still skeptical about Tesla in general. Nonetheless, this iteration has been incredible. I am heading into the city of Chicago today and we’ll see how it does. I have not touched the steering wheel in a span of 10 days so far. It even backs out of my garage. The only time I do have to operate the vehicle personally is to put it back into the garage.
I agree with you. No one has ever done this in human history! Great technology takes time. This was incredibly challenging. Been driving my AI3 M3LR for 4 years now. I can wait. To those missing V13 just imagine V14 or V15, you will be missing that also for a while. Literally; enjoy the ride! Thanks for your work on this channel.
For the most part, the only time I have to intervene with FSD 13 on HW4 2023 MYLR is when the map data is inaccurate. Prior to v13 I would commute to work and have to disengage v12 2-3 times so that I could report FSD issues that needed to be addressed. The biggest one was driving too fast, even speeding up, when it should be using regen due to an obvious red light ahead, or coming down and exit ramp with stop sigh at bottom. v12 would continue essentially highway speeds down the ramp till just a very short distance from the stop sign and then would have to use the mechanical breaks as regen at that point was not able to bring the car to a stop in time. If I was driving the same route I had not problem keeping a good speed down the ramp while allowing regen through one-pedal driving to bring me to a smooth stop at the correct spot without engaging the mechanical brakes. v13 now drives just like I would. And in hurry mode it is amazing when on any road with multiple lanes in the direction of travel. It zips around cars in a very controlled and decisive manner. Again, where FSD seems to fail now is when the navigation data lacks precision or is simply inaccurate. Like telling FSD it is okay to stay in the left lane as you approach a traffic light in town where the left lane is for left-turn only. It will move over at the last minute while proceeding through the intersection scaring the bejeezes out of anyone who is in the oncoming left-turn only lane:(! Yet when you come back the other direction at the same light with the same left-turn only lane the navigation system always tells the Tesla to get in the right lane well before negotiating the intersection. So something is off on the navigation data in one direction but not the other. BUT, v13 is amazing. I now use it to commute to work daily without ever a need to intervene except at final location. At work, I disengage once in the parking lot so I can choose the spot. And at home, I disengage so I can back in to my driveway and then into my carport so I can plug in the charger. Other than that, FSD v13 drives me to and from work through residential, highway, and multi-lane secondary roads without issue. Simply, amazing!!! I will say, that I think this video's comparison is different than my experience. The smoothness of turns, lack of hesitation when negotiating intersections, etc is so human like as compared to v12 there really is vast improvement in the overall feel of every drive - poor navigation data aside.
This was an amazing video Jon. Thank you for giving hope to us HW3 peasants!
37:25 - red hand disengaged due to sun to shade transition. Too bad not fixed in v13.
Awkwardly having FSD pull to the front of a Trump tower is not a good idea right now.
is that where the terror attack happened? cybertruck held really well after that terrorist blew himself up, battery wasn't even affected haha
this must have been recorded way before that happened tho
@shushin4651 it said live.
@@wreckinball11 live premiere. It was filmed on Monday 12/30 before that explosion happened.
I can't wait for v12.6 over the next couple of weeks. I think it's going to be a big improvement for hw3
I wish Teslas didn't sound like they are falling apart on big potholes. The Y sounds awful at 39:36 pothole. My expectations for 12.6.? that finally comes to my HW3 3 are pretty low. All I'm hoping for is better E2E on the highway. Any smoothness is appreciated. There is still a lot of hopeium in the short term for driverless RT's. My HW4 FOMO has abated. I'll wait for Tesla to upgrade me in several years to 4, 4.5 or HW5. Thanks for the vid.
With 1:01 to go in your video as you descend to Lower Whacker Drive, look at the screen - Tesla sees a green light there.
You talking about 27:17?
Pedal of encouragement.
Great video! Nice to see that my Hotel in Chicago is challenging FSD to the max!
I would do a camera cleaning anyway. Maybe the lens itself is dirty, because the warning message showed clearly glare through dirt.
What is a bit disappointing for me is that the general AI still has to come a long way to solve problems that human drivers do easily like identifying the green light on the top road as non relevant. I’d not agree that this should be solved with better map data, maybe short term, it should be solved by a strong general AI.
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Man Google should really fix their maps. FSD would do so much better
I noticed that at low speeds the FSD speed profiles are not activated. It seems to drive way too slow at slower speeds, as in 12 in a 25.
So basically we have two main problems left, sun glare and poor map data.
my hw 3 23 model y hugs at times does yours?
We have a model y HW3 and a model Y with HW4 thank goodness my wife switched me cars and I get to drive the HW4 car with V13 I think it is night and day difference
I have 13.2.2.1, and I agree that 13 is not much better than the last versions of 12. I drive Chill with 0% speed offset, and it is still far from the defensive driving that I would hope for. In addition, it made a poor choice this week on a blind-ish right turn with oncoming traffic, which had not happened in prior versions.
It seems like each update has both gains and losses.
It's nice that it pulls out of parking spaces, but when it chooses to pull into traffic without accelerating sufficiently, we're trading a parlor trick for a safety risk.
i'm waiting for hw5.
they seem to be going for a breadth first, "feature complete" strategy that is mildly competent at every feature and will have to ratchet up the content per "feature" to push it over the line to robotaxi.
which to me means just wait to buy whatever hw elon puts into the cybercab.
like there is a reason they aren't just upgrading hw3 to hw4 right now....i think there is a chance that hw4's will be rug pulled because Telsa has no idea how much content will be necessary to to go beyond human driver ON EVERY SINGLE ROAD AND SCENARIO.
Please keep your eye out for us hw3 people. I also want to know when we are really missing out. Thank you
Will do!
26:00 I wonder if map facts are realtime synced back to the mothership already
Thanks, I've been waiting to see how 13.2.2 goes with Chicago's levels.
I hope Tesla is working with mapping authorities and providers towards improving quality, with a global view. Solve once, solve for the solution to work anywhere.
On the HW3 issue, I'm sceptical about HW3 being sufficient in the longer term, looking at V14 and beyond. If the HW is swapped out, it would surely be better to roll out HW5, or at least offer HW4 to HW5 upgrades and use the freed up HW4s to replace HW3s. As I'm assuming HW5 is already or very soon will be the only version manufactured from here.
I look forward to future Chicago tests as new FSD versions roll out 😎
People still don't understand and believe me when I say, Chicago is the FSD final boss in the US!
The problem I can see with FSD, is that it can see , it can recognise , but it cannot reason like a human , it would be similar someone who is driving absent mindedly , the driver is driving okay most of time using muscle memory , but put that person in a unusual situation then mistakes happen , end to end neuronet , if it see something it hasn’t seen or been trained before , it cannot reason its way out of it. This is a problem is the traffic or road design is slightly unusual or uncommon
I have been using FSD13.2.2.1 for about two weeks in heavy rains. I had to take control for 8-10 times not more. The only issue is navigation. If tesla fixes the navigation it fixes autonomy
I’ve gone through the acceptance phase now I just enjoy my rolling jelly bean as it is
Well just me observing different videos.
There weren't many difficult situations except navigation issues with the lower level. So v12 would probably get the job done similarly.
I see v13 handling difficult and or busy situations with cars or pedestrians much better.
Speed control is usually much better (faster)
Less hesitating when making a maneuver.
Much better snow driving.
And of course parking and reverse.
You would think with the boring company making tunnels at different levels that it would know different levels of where it's at. Lol
Not gonna lie, but those glasses look goofy 😅
시카고는 현지민도 어려울 듯 한데.
Brilliant FSD
As always, your honest FSD reviews are much appreciated!
So many disengagements and interventions on this short drive around town. People that say Level 5 Full Autonomy is coming soon are delusional. FSD cannot be relied upon in busy big cities in January of 2025.
in my opinion v13 (on non cybertruck model S vehicles) is way better than v12. This drive doesnt demonstrate it since failures are because of map issues which are not fixed on purpose. (Using maps as a crutch prevents problems from actually being solved and you get stuck in local maximas)
Other videos show what v13 is capable of and it can handle really complex situations where fsd 12 falls short.
V13 will also get 3x longer context window in a future update(so it will plan for 3x the distance) this can solve quite a bit of navigation issues.
@@princeofexcess can’t wait for the future. In the limited time that I had, with the nav issues aside, I didn’t find anything that was significantly better than v12. Unfortunately. And I say that with a heavy heart because I believe what others are saying. I really wanted to witness something incredible and noticeably different, but I didn’t.
@@techgeektesla We need people still demonstrating the failures. Honest videos with failures are the best ones since they show where the system is lacking.
The nav failures i am seeing do not worry me. It might be a while before they are solved but tesla is not solving them on purpose. They are trying to imitate human driving and humans do not use special maps. Once solved it will allow the car to drive everywhere including places where map data is bad.
The red light issue is a critical failure that worries me much more but I also think those issues will be resolved quickly.
In this segment of your vid ruclips.net/user/clipUgkxjpr5TkiGp26uZsyxMvM6j7-mkIQJQeSw?si=vUk-FTy8D6RlGvCp for some reason, the Profile information disappeared on the upper left corner of the display of your friend's Model Y; appeared to be in a 30-MPH zone. I heard you said it's a new Model Y, so it might be equipped with the AI4.1 FSD computer that reportedly been experiencing problems in the real world. Edited to say: My MYP, Fremont-manufactured, Feb 2024, shortly before Tesla's mass layoffs last year, has much improved forward speed control operating under FSD (Supervised) v13.2.2 comparing with v12, as can be seen in this vid ruclips.net/video/MglXGueAb0Q/видео.htmlsi=ckXp_hVUCtQEgnet set to Hurry on approach to 4-Way stop (no hesitation at all), then Standard (33 MAX), and ending with Chill (33 MAX) at 31 MPH in a 30-MPH zone.
Anyone who says that v13 is "robotaxi" ready is being hyperbolic. FSD continues to get better, especially now that they are training on and for HW4, but it is not yet ready for DRIVERLESS. It isn't about what it can do, which is a lot, it is about what it still CAN'T DO, which is also A LOT (e.g. 1% of situations is A LOT, 0.1% of situations is a lot). There's still a lot of training left to do and I don't think FSD will really be fully driverless until AI5 which will essentially be v3 of the FSD hardware.
They will make small improvements to the software for HW3 but it will be significantly less capable than HW4 due to the advanced cameras, processing, and storage. As will also be the case with AI5 vs HW4.
This is no different than anything else in the tech world for the past 50+ years. The first versions of software and supporting hardware make significant jumps in ability in the initial versions then levels off before something completely new comes along.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful but you should stop saying you're unbiased. Being a human being that is unbiased is literally impossible. Maybe just reword it. You sound less like you're trying to say you're not biased and more like you're trying to talk back at some of the people in the comments. I don't know.. I don't want to come across as rude I just didn't think it was a very good look for such a great channel.
Either way cheers and keep up the content.
@@BeyondTheApexMotorsport sorry to hear it came off as talking back too much to a heckler in the comments. It was not intentional. On YT I’m reaching to communicate to new viewers all the time and want to clarify my intention toward documenting all aspects of FSD early on. Maybe it’s not needed to mention after all. I appreciate the feedback!
I think that HW3 will likely be capable of unsupervised FSD, and if not, Elon said that Tesla would upgrade it
it'll be in his best interest to crack the code on v3. retrofits will be costly