HiFi In-Wall Speaker Shootout! The results will floor (wall?) you!!! 😳
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2022
- Written review/data can be found here:
Bowers & Wilkins CWM7.3 S2: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
Focal 1000 IWLCR6: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
Kef Ci3160RL-THX: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
M&K IW150: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
Martin Logan 5XW: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
Revel W553L: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
Revel W893: www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loud...
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25:28 This is just my opinion but I think that a narrow vertical directivity is not bad. Of course it depends on usage Is it stereo hi-fi speaker or part of a 6 speaker home cinema system? For stereo speaker I would prefer speaker with constant not to wide horizontal and vertical directivity. Vertical directivity should not be laser tight because you listen to music sitting down, standing up or even lying on a couch. 60-90° range for vertical seems ok to me. For horizontal dispersion I would go for 90-120°. The point is to minimize early reflection and energy directed towards the room. For home cinema I would prefer narrow vertical dispersion because audience is sitting down and wide horizontal dispersion 120-180°to cover all the audience. Combine that with acoustic treatment for home cinema room and you maximize direct sound vs reflected sound.
Could you test the DYNAUDIO inwalls please?
Erin just pantsed the entire industry for their lazy in wall engineering. And we thank you for that 👍
The latest Monoprice THX in wall would be a contender!!
This one is interesting because of how drastically different the speakers measure.
Just amazing! Excellent work and the community really appreciates what you do. You had the 3 that were on my short list so now deciding time of KEF vs JBL. Again,I can’t said enough thank you sir!!!!!!
I have set this before and I will say it again myself and a lot of the older Reviewers from all different publications respect the hell out of you We love the fact that you are humble and extremely educated And do not look down on anybody Getting into the hobby or wanting to learn. Thank you so much for what you do buddy By far the most refreshing guy out there
Thanks, man! I appreciate you!
@@ErinsAudioCorner trust me we appreciate you!! No magic beans required lol 😉
I used to frown upon in walls that didn’t have back boxes. That’s what we are taught. This is incredibly valuable information to have! And it’s not that they are bad they just must be designed and sized right. But that looks like it’s rare. I really expected more from many of these speakers. Many of them were high on my internet list. I’ve been regularly checking for this video. You knocked it out the park! Thanks again!
Yep, I thought the same thing. This review was really eye opening for me in this regard.
I am a MK SOUND dealer. The IW150s are very much a current product and retail for $2200. As a professional, you definitely have to make adjustments to frequency due to room variations. Good review. Glad you put so many brands up that are INVISIBLE to the average consumer.
I'm an on wall/ceiling guy (JBL 9300) and before I went that way I so wanted in walls as they are much more room friendly. But also as a 2 channel box speaker guy I could never convince myself that you could get the same performance from in walls. Dollars for dollars aside.
Huge amount of work you have done here and am hugely grateful. Subscribed.
Erin, just want to say I’m eternally grateful for the work you do man. It’s highly appreciated. You’re an awesome guy. Your humble attitude rocks mister. Loving your content. You seem like a super great guy. Very relatable and genuine. It’s something very special indeed. Wish you all the best even through the tougher times.
Awwww shucks. ☺️
No one can do in walls/in ceilings like Erin. Great job!
Can't thank you enough for another well-explained informative video. It's so great to see how you make it more easily accessible for people to get better insight prior to buying speakers. Keep up the good works. Better days ahead.
Damn man, that's a lot of work. This is some great information! Thank you so much for your hard work.
Thanks for doing this Erin, the results were super enlightening. If possible one day it would be awesome if you could review some of the Triad inwall speakers. They seem
to be super popular on AVS and I have always wondered how they would fair on the KLIPPEL. It goes without saying but you are the man!
Learned a good bit, as I never see any reviews/data for in-walls.
Thanks for doing this Erin. Appreciate it!
Finally some measurements of these so called highend speakers. Awesome work 👍.
This type of information simply doesn’t exist anywhere else. Thanks for the effort you put in!
I do appreciate how much time and effort you put into all these tests and especially the listening evaluations. Interesting that price did not assure performance. Thank you for calling out bad ones.
I really need you to test the SCL-2.
Erin, I can’t thank you enough for all of this!!! No one reviews in walls and I am glad the one that does is you! I love your honesty and how clearly you explain everything in a way that makes it easy to compare. You are helping a lot of us out here and I hope you continue this incredible work! Your channel is among my all time favorite!!
Fascinating!!! This is so incredibly helpful. Thank you for your time!!!
Thanks for doing the work to shed light on these speakers where otherwise little is known. Room correction would do wonders to flatten those massive bass bumps (done it with XT32), which in turn would also reduce the compression for speakers like the Focal. Fixing the other problems is of course not trivial.
Wow! There are a lot of surprises about in-wall speakers, bad ones for the most part! You point very expertedly all the pitfalls and caveats of putting ready-made speakers without proper analysis of the sound characteristics of each design. At the price point (mostly over 1000$ each), I was expecting a more balance sound and a much better dispersion. Thanks for sheding some light on a huge portion of the audiophile spectrum we never hear about!
Great review as usual Erin! At the end of the day, it seems like the results overall are not very surprising. In walls will never be the same quality as a speaker with a defined enclosure based on its characteristics. However it's interesting that the two budget models do as well as they do while all the expensive ones turned out to be pretty crappy except for the KEF.
Dude. Honestly. You are invaluable to the audio community. You should have DOUBLE the subscribers of people like The A.
You tell things the way they are.
Your reviews potentially save people tons of money and can give them the right direction.
Keep up the kick ass work !
Amazing breakdown! I suspect the high Q drivers in small boxes is to impress right of the bat and make them easy to install, but yes its really a shame when price tag is at a few grand. Best breakdown I have ever seen for wall and ceiling speakers, thank you!
Excellent video: it managed to cover all the bases without getting in the weeds and was fair and honest in its appraisal. I installed some Goldenear SPS in walls in my living room (the little woman vetoed even book shelves), and installed the optional back boxes: they sound awful: boomy and muffled. I almost returned them, but tried them without the back boxes and they were much better (but nowhere near as good as the Triton floorstanders.) I’d like to see these reviewed, but I’m also looking forward to the upcoming Triad review. You sir are performing a valuable public service with these in wall reviews: I haven’t seen or heard of anyone else doing this: much appreciated!
Erin - you did it again. Very interesting choice of in walls and relevant for today’s home theater’s where WAF rating is important
I heard the Flagship Focal inwalls along with the matching inwall subs at Axpona 2022. While I was initially surprised with the dynamics and sheer volume output capabilities, they did sound boomy too. Very boomy. I’m shocked at this price point they would sound that bad.
Hopefully reviews like this will make the manufacturers step up their game rather than their prices. Great video
Hey Erin once again you made a pretty awesome job man !!!! Wonderful really 😊😊😊Love your work 😀😀😀👍
I am blown away by the in-depth review. It's funny I ended up here cuz I'm just looking for some front and rear speakers for my surround sound I already have a really nice set of speakers but I was thinking to go in wall and at this point I feel like I should just open up the enclosures of the speakers I have and build enclosures for in the wall I had no idea how expensive these things could get. Regardless of my budget problems thanks very much for your in-depth and honest review I learned a lot here
Glad I could help!
Nice! I was puckering in my seat watching and waiting for hopeful positives about the performance of the Focal after having outfitted my entire theater and then my living room with the 1000 series and that IWLCR6 model specifically for all my mains. Kind of a bummer. Would have rather had glowing results. I see similar characteristics in my raw measurements. Anthem ARC in both rooms though does very well handling the speaker for Harman-esque custom curves with the AVM70 and the STR. I'm very pleased with my system and its integration nonetheless. We can still be friends, LOL. 😀
Yep. It all normally sounds good at the end of the day. I’m sure your rooms sound amazing
Great video. The Focal’s surprised me a bit since I’ve seen so much positive reactions to them online. People seem to covet those.
Erin, thank you so much for opening our eyes about these speakers ! I realy appreciate the time and efford you put into these test, to come up with your recommendations based on test valuations and not by the hipe manufacturers put in their product presentations !
I realy need your help and recommendation for ceiling speakers ! I don't have space for towers nor walls, with the exception for the center channel. The Focal 1000 ICLCR5 is an option I was looking into, but until I have your recommendation, I won't buy any !
Thank you so much for what you do !
Luis
Your channel rocks, thank you so much for doing all this work! Your reviews are outstanding and so helpful.
Unbelievable that B&W is so crappy bug not surprising they have become just all about marketing.
I wonder if the KEF will be even better when they upgrade them and have the metamaterial improvements!
Thanks for your awesome work. It's good to see reviews that actually provide some value. WIll subscribe to your Patreon.
Thanks for that!
Wow, that is a lot of work. Thank you for doing this, so insightful.
Love the honesty. Guys like thomas & stereo & cheapaudioman and many more don't even say the name of brand which sounded bad for eg at a show or heard at their friends house[thomas & stereo]. Thank you erin for keeping it real. Love your honesty.
Yeah too many reviewers shy away from handing out negative reviews.
But those are so important for informing consumers which products to avoid, so they can find better products.
Very happy to see that Erin is honestly recommending against MartinLogan, Focal and B&W.
Great video. I have the Revel W990's for my LCR, W893's for the sides and C783's for the atmos. Amazing sound for both movies and music. I have an Anthem 1140X with a Krell Amp to drive the LCR's. I was able to do a blind test of 6 different brands at the installers location and the Revel's came out on top. Everyone's ears are different and I would recommend, if at all possible, to do a blind test. You might be surprised as to what you like when you don't know the brand you're listening to. Love the Revels. Oh, and if you can afford it, JL Audio's inwall subs are amazing.
I love my Anthem 1140 MRX too, but I always liked Focal sound, so my front is Sopra 3, which is connected to Pass Labs XA30.8 with xp-12 preamp. At the rear are my first Focal speakers, Electra 1008be, then Sopra centre. I just bought 4x 1000series ICW6 to complete atmos. I'm planning to build diy surround speakers with two more ICW6.
I'm addicted to beryllium as you can tell😄, so it will be all around me.
For sub, I have Rel 812S and I plan to buy a second one mainly to complete my stereo.
My priority was always good stereo system, so home cinema was really an afterthought, but now I definitely appreciate surround more.
I always wondered what would happen if you put a bookshelf speaker in wall? Could put some foam around it with some type of custom mount case for the 2inch that will stick out the wall. An Arendal 19.. would be interesting to see, Since those in wall already cost a fortune
Great job Erin! I would be very curious about on wall surround speakers also, such as the Lyngdorf MH-2 or others. Thanks in advance.
Would love to see some triad speakers reviewed/measured if you can get your hands on some. Seems they are a favorite of custom installers but I've yet to see any data... Makes you wonder if the CI guys know something we don't or maybe the margins are just that good!
Great review! Looking forward to more speaker review from you.
Interesting, especially that the more expensive speakers didn't rate so well. I'd love to see you test some of the less pricey speakers that everyday people can afford. Two that would interest me are the Micca in-wall and the Silver Ticket speakers. I've used the Micca ceiling speakers and they are quite good at a low price, I bet their in-wall are as well.
You are the best speaker reviewer I ever heard on RUclips you know your stuff thanks great review
Such an honest review on a wide variety of in-wall speakers. I hope you're able to review the GoldenEar Invisa Signature Point Source one day.
Nice review Erin! I cannot believe how poorly integrated those more expensive designs were. The responses were unacceptable for that price, and seemingly poorly executed crossovers. Very surprised and now more informed!
Thanks Erin for another excellent speaker review. An experiment that I think would be revealing is to compare the anechoic response of a high quality stand-mount speaker with its actual response when placed a couple of feet in front of a large flat baffle and (thirdly) with its actual response when placed directly against the large flat baffle and with panels placed at the sides of the speaker and the top and bottom, all tilted backward at 45 degrees from the baffle plane so as to blend the baffle to the wall a slight distance away from the speaker. I've never seen this experiment done but someone with the right skills and equipment could do it and it would be very interesting. I expect that the response with the speaker placed a couple of feet away from the large flat baffle will be very different from the anechoic response while the response with the speaker placed directly against the large flat baffle and using the panels will be a much closer match to the anechoic response, albeit with a bass boost compared to the anechoic response. Just some food for thought. Thanks again for your good work!
You might be interested in this review where I took the small Arendal bookshelf speaker measured it anechoic and then put it on a baffle to show what the response would be as if it were on a wall. Check it out.
m.ruclips.net/video/WZ6Fyob1Phg/видео.html
I’ll never use an in wall speaker, but that being said I thoroughly enjoyed this video! Keep killing it homie
Thanks, man!
I have to say I really wish you could have included the Monoprice in-walls as I have there stand alone speakers and you reviewed for example the 365-C really well. If you can do an addendum at a later time for the Monoprice in-walls that would very much help me decide if i should do that for my next setup, or stay far away from them.
You do remarkable work… I don’t think I’ve seen your equal on RUclips. 👏👏👏
Great comparison, thank you.
Very informative episode. Great job. Very few reviews out there comparing them. Would be great to have your review for Line Array Speakers as well like JBL CBT 50/100/70.
Thanks for doing this Erin, I can tell it was a ton of work! Do you have any thoughts about in-wall speakers in general vs floorstanders? Do you consider it a significant compromise to use in-walls, especially in terms of soundstaging, or do the benefits of infinite baffle make up for it? I have a perfect wall for in-walls, but not sure if I'd lament a loss in performance?
Thanks for the great review and info. I’ve been looking at the KEF for a while and there’s very little info.
I'm betting the most expensive speaker is the best. That's how good reviewers choose the best. No need to listen or measure.
🤣
Dammit. I could’ve saved myself a lot of time if I had known that.
When they say - "It's good for the price range", without even giving you a real shortcoming, I know I've wasted my time with that review.
Incredibly informative, I watched the whole thing. I'd love to see about a dozen more of these inwall test videos at every price point for all kinds of in-walls. Triad, Dynaudio, Elac, Sonance, CAT, Meridian, more budget focal models without enclosures, KEF Q Series, etc. etc. Do you have a recommended reasonably priced method to measure live installs? Would love to offer the best product options to my customers at different price points.
I don't know why but this video had news reporter vibes with each speaker being the next story. Very interesting results. Makes me wonder if these brands measure well with their boxed lineups of bookshelf/towers. I've heard that B&W typically have a BBC dip and that's their thing.
Great work as always man!
thanks, dude!
Thanks - appreciate the work and effort.
Much appreciated!
Awesome breakdown!!!
Very AWESOME Video Thank you and keep up the great work very informative.
Eeeesh, I makes me scared to consider in-walls for the next iteration of my HT build. Hopefully we can find a diamond in the rough when looking at some more budget friendly options.
Get on-wall speakers.
Really nice. What a lot of job to do all the baffles and measurments. Well done 👍
Regarding the bump in the bass its not much of an issue since it can be eqed down. Itll actually help with spl since the drivers eqed would need much less power there.
Since the bass is linesr phase an equde curve is equal to a normal curve.
So equed to a q of 0.7 is the same as a bigger box with q 0.7
Also Id assume they all recommend an standard 4th ord linkwitz 80 hz crossover that will bring the peak down also.
Stage detail of Miller Kreisel is just on another level. Maybe SNR, or DB senistivity measures different from others, but in reality when put together you get another dimension in sound from MK. I was watching one scene many times for testing and only after i put MK SUR55 and LCR950 i realised that this scene has a rain sound, then looked closeley and here you go there was a rain outside the window in the scene which i never seen before after watching it 100 times, numbers do not tell full sotry, but real sound does. Maybe thats why MK is mostly used in Atmos studios.
Hi Erin, I appreciate your work and your honest words! Do you have absorbers on the ceiling/walls? I could not see any, at least in the picture. I only ask because I saw a video that shows that even with a near field measurement, a hard surface in the environment makes a significant difference. Thank you and have fun with further tests!
I'm not an in wall speaker guy,but I'm watching because you Rock and your tshirt is Awesome!!!👍
haha. Thanks!
Feeling good being a Kef owner right now!
Very informative and comprehensive analysis of these speakers Erin. Have you looked at either the Klipsch R-5502 or the Definitive Technology in wall Rls II in-wall speaker? I’m curious what your thoughts on either of those might be. Thanks again.
Really enjoy these in wall videos; I am in the process of planning my theater build and this is very informative as demoing all options is actually impossible. You still planning on reviewing some Triad stuff?
Interesting video. I loved it. There is hardly anyone talking about in-wall speakers in RUclips.Should we make a box in the dry wall for hooking up the open back revels?
I had high hopes for the Focal 1000. Since you are saying you think the enclosure might be a limiting factor, I really now wonder how the much less expensive Focal 300 series with the flax drivers would compare to the Focal 1000 series. Since those are open backed, there is an opportunity for the user to build their own, larger back box to maybe help with some of the resonances. It would be interesting to see what spending almost 3 times as much money really gets you.
Yeah real shame, big fan of Beryllium tweeters, but seems like they just wasted the amazing drivers from their tower speakers in those.
Great job! Thanks!
Thank you very, very, very much for this review Erin!
You mentioned, that the three way Revel has got depth in soundstage. Was that the only one or were there other speakers with the same attribute?
I might have missed where you said this, but what is your take on the insulation in the wall? I have 24" spacing with the studs in my wall and I'm wondering if I should I pull out a bunch of the insulation to allow for more air around the speakers???
Love the honesty.
Thanks again to everyone who loaned speakers to Erin to make this test and review possible!
Excellent , excellent review. Enjoyed this presentation very much. No b--s. Curious, the M&K did you mount it with the tweeters on the side? Would it be better with tweeters on top? Cheers.
I am glad the KEF measure well, it’s interesting you didn’t spend as much time on KEF vs all the others!
I love the fact that you call it as they are the most expensive speakers are so poorly designed!!
..... now..... amazing video..... could you please do one for in-ceiling speakers? :) They are a lot smaller, so maybe they work out a bit better. I have no idea.
Hi with the miller and kreisel,these speakers are supposed to be paired with a subwoofer, they are not really designed to create low frequencies ,I use the s150 cabinet type and I believe these s150 are all about detail, that’s why film makers use them 🤷♂️🤔
GREAT VID! I would like to see a Paradigm, Sonance, James, JBL Synthesis and Monitor Audio in-wall shootout!
Man, I wish I could. Maybe one day... but I have reviewed the JBL SCL-6 in another video.
thank you for your work sir, very interesting review
Very satisfied with the Kef 3160, I’m using the 4100’s as my surrounds. Your research validates my AV guy recommendations. Thank you for your hard work.
I'm considering the 3160's. Do you have them biamped? Are you using them strictly for home theater or are they double duty for 2 channel?
@@Trrs81 no they aren’t bi-amped. Mostly for HT.
@@rinaldosloan8291 are you enjoying them? What did you run before them?
Did you install with or without a DIY back box? Any thoughts regarding this?
@@bradlee2594 You would need to sit them in a false or cavity wall. Kef stipulate the optimum volume area they need to have so just take that into consideration when you fit them. You don’t need a box.
If you get the opportunity to do another one of these in-wall comparisons, it'd be great to see if you could borrow a Dali Phantom S-280 to demo. Due to their massive size and passive radiators, they may be one of the few in-wall speakers that could potentially sound right with a sealed back box. Their downside is their immense size and their equally immense price. Definitely not for the faint of heart. Unfortunately, none of my local shops have any on demo, so I haven't had a chance to hear them myself.
Great work bruda, man I love you. 👀… I love your work!! I mean I love your work!! 😂🤣😂😂👀
😂😂😂
Mammoth effort , very intresting video thanks Erin.
Thanks, Chris.
Wonder if the cheaper alternatives from KEF also perform reasonably well?
Would love to see Paradigm and Triad in walls next. Great video!
Yeah, got to at least have the Triad's if he's doing upper end.
Triad Golds on currently en route. Hopefully they'll fit on my measurement rig.
Speakercraft should be in the test, Origin Acoustics too
That side by side design… generally u get comb filtering which will generally cancel out certain freqs.
thank you for doing this!
👍
Disappointed to see these results on a few of the speakers that were on my short list. Erin, when are you doing the Triad Speakers?
I believe they are en route.
Good job Erin. I listen to the AV Rant podcast, and the guys on there are very knowledgeable generally but they are repeatedly insistent that in-wall speakers need an enclosure. They seem to think that a speaker without an enclosure is automatically going to be inferior and speakers just need an enclosure to sound good, even if you have to do your own DIY box in the wall. That has always struck me as false. I have been following speaker design since a subscription to Speaker Builder magazine in the 1980s. My own experience is that infinite baffle and open baffle can be very effective. Your measurements just confirm the fact that in-walls are more likely hurt by using an enclosure because they are almost always too small. I am somewhat surprised by the fact that even when the manufacturer supplies the box, they still use woofers that would benefit from a larger enclosure. Maybe they are counting on EQ to bring down the bass hump.
yeah that's very interesting well said! would like you have tried the tannoy they might be good?
Would love to see more budgets models, was thinking about taking the focals 300 series before. But after seeing these results of the 1000 serie that's not going to happen. Now going to get the Revel W553L's. Thank you for the video!
Did you end up getting the W553L's? If so, what did you think about them? I'm considering these for rear surrounds.
I didn’t have time to watch the whole video but I did drop a follow. Was there any mention of what speakers are recommended?
Yes yes yes.
Glad I picked up the kefs.
Yea, seems like a good choice.
Erin, super interesting video. Thank you for taking the time and energy to educate us. Just out of curiosity, any interest or plan to test any of the Monolith THX in walls? Would be interesting to see how they stack up against the much more expensive models you tested here.
Came here to say this as well! The LCR THX and the 275 versions are very appealing. I'm interested to see the horizontal dispersion of the LCR setup as well.
I came here to say this also and he has tested MonoPrice before I see.
@@runany1 yea, they're supposed to send me some when they come back in stock.
If they are anything like their subwoofers, they will be fantastic! I got the 12" THX, and couldn't be happier.
great I am to trying to pull the trigger on the thx monolith in walls
Thanks for the video, did you also checked the Dali in wall?
Hi Erin! So what would you recommend one consider as LCR in wall speakers to go around the new Sony 100 inch TV in a very long open floor plan great room that is not acoustically sound and has floor to ceiling sliding glass doors to the outside pool area. I understand this area will not have good acoustics and there really isn't much that can be done. So I just want this area to sound as good as possible given the poor acoustics. I was planning on getting the Focal 1000s (before seeing your bad review) after speaking to my AV guy and the Focal rep, along with Marantz AV7706 preamp and Marantz MM8077. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.