I grew up in very a low church context. Just over a year ago, i joined a traditional Protestant church with liturgy. I absolutely love the external expressions of our spiritual lives.
I sometimes think the reason for such a question as 'do I have to go to church to be a Christian?' is because so many Christians don't see that that we don't go TO church as believers, but ARE the church! TW's answer is still correct in that we cannot possibly grow to maturity in the faith (Ephesians 4:13-16) unless we are 'in community'. Even then, the community of faith is likened to a household (Galatians 6:10), so that means we regard one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. We are encouraged not to forsake the gathering of believers, and the New Testament is full of references to 'us' and to 'one another' making it clear that we really need each other.
*I am on the Autism Spectrum.* One Thursday night at Prayer Meeting the Pastor verbally attacked me. He said in front of the congregation that I had been rude to his wife and the church pianist! Funny, his wife and in-laws and I talked for the longest time before the service, no one acted as if I had done anything! He never took me aside or mentioned anything until he was preaching that night. He brought up language: he went on a rant that English only is to be spoken and it is exclusionary to speak anything else in the church. Never mind that two Philippino families habitually speak Tagalog there, and he forgot about when he recently called me over to help a visitor from the Ivory Coast who needed someone to speak French! I never asked for any other language in the services, even though I speak perfect German as well as decent French. I mentioned that whispering in front of others is just as bad. He said he'd already addressed that, and I replied I hadn't heard him say anything about it. He went on in the same vein; I got up, put my coat and hat on, and again, in front of the congregation he said "Leaving like a child!" At that point I'd had enough, and replied, "Resorting to name calling!" As I left he, obviously angry, called out, " God bless you!" I said nothing and left. There are only liberal, non Bible believing churches in my area. *I love the Lord. I just,have trouble with His groupies.*
11:10 Enjoy visiting services. I have spent the spring meeting people this way. Time well spent. There are midweek services too. And the SDA is a church that worships on Saturdays and I am sure they are on a good path also. Now we are all asking Jesus - What shall I do with this new day to which you have brought me? 9:10 All are taught patience.This is another mysterious part of this spiritual journey. Justin Brierley looks so confident that this conversation is exactly on target. Yes I agree. Amen.
I'm glad you mentioned kneeling. Imagine 50 yr old new Christian. The fact that my Episcopal Church has kneelers and uses them is one of the things that keeps me going there. It just feels right.
I've spent many hours talking to JWs in the past year. For a while I was hoping we could sort out our differences and I could call them brothers (not that they would call me that), but the more I talked to them the deeper our differences became. About 6 months ago I found chapter 4 of your book "What Saint Paul Really Said" to be very helpful. TBH, I wasn't a huge fan of the book as a whole ("Justification" is much clearer), but seeing the true deity of the Christ rooted in Paul's reevaluation of the law and the prophets was edifying for my faith. Unfortunately, the biblical arguments didn't move the JWs, but that wasn't the arguments' fault.
There are priests that say that the mystery of God is only in church, only through eucaristhy we can find the Mystery ! Why ? for us to comply and go to church ? I can not be a Christian if I'm not going to church ? Do I need to go to university and have a degree in literature to know how to read, write, and know the universal writers ? Or, touch by God, it's not enough to know by heart the New Testament ? and the good books of famous writers, from T. Wright, Lash, Halik, Radcliffe, Sanders, for example ? You know, institutions ..
With respect, I used to think this too. It isn't about what some priest or pastor says. It isn't ABOUT 'what you know' or compliance. It is more like building muscles with exercise. Jesus said if we love him we will love one another and that takes practice. If you can't find a church that really follows what Jesus says to do then start a bible study first, but do it with others. I'll pray for you - please pray for me because we NEED each other to do as the LORD (not an institution) says. God bless
A lot of good folks believe the part in the Bible where God " Come out of HER , HE is talking about the CC ! It was the one that never wanted people to have a Bible and REFUSES to grab on of the FACT that GOD tells people the vail or curtain separating God from everyday people was TORN down at the CROSS ! No longer does a priest have to be confessed to but rather GO STRAIGHT TO GOD in prayer for repenting and LEARNING FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT !!!!!
I had a friend recently make this same point about no need to confess your sins to anyone other than God, which made sense in the moment. Then, I heard a sermon that made a valid point about confession shortly after. The sermon quoted James 5:16: Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. And then it went into the benefits of confessing your sins to one another. But it emphasized that confession didn't have to be specifically to a priest in a confession box, though it is good to find someone you can trust. The benefits were things like accountability, love & encouragement when needed, sharing how God is working in & through the struggle as a testimony, being able to have others come alongside you to pray, and much more. I thought it was a great sermon!
, but confession to another sister or brother, while commended/commanded in Scripture and certainly valuable, doesn't secure forgiveness, which is what differentiates it from the Roman Catholic claims surrounding confession.
The Globus Cruciger is a inverted egyptian Ankh, and if one understands the ordering of the elements and spiritual forces shown as a cross, one has a system of either being ordered by an outside authority figure or an inner understanding that is the foundation of your life. The essence of what i write here is extracted from scripture although by being interested in many more subjects than that, which surround such scriptures, needs to be taken into account. The christian scriptures tell you to overcome the elemental spiritual forces and become cognizant of their infuences, but alas, studying the words alone, like a recipe for making dough, does not get the bread baked. Collosians 2 : 20 - 23 Upon the celestial sphere pointed towards here Job 38:31-33 one can find Cephas, also known as Peter, Matthew 16:23 also known as Cepheus upon the sphere and the Dragon written about in Revelation. Draco the Lawgiver. Hathor is El Shaddai, is the Dragon. Christ is King of all kings. John 8:12 Mashallah ibn Athari will shed light upon jacobs ladder and how through studying the signs in heaven how it effects human life. Take care , peace be upon you all.
Problem solved as you must go to church as there was no atonement at the Cross, Jesus was the Messiah as witnessed by John, and as John 5:24 it was the word of God he brought that we must believe and obey for eternal life. He is Judge of those in the church which is for sanctification.
He came and died in order for you to be able to participate in his kingdom. You don't have to do it. It's a choice. You will live eternal regardless, either alone or with all the other sinners, accepting their shortcomings in love or sitting outside gnashing teeth at how imperfect the others are.
Same reason there's forums, and communities, and gathering events. For Discipleship, fellowship, and accountability. Even Jesus honored that, although he’s God he didn't need anyone.
After twenty plus years in Christ, I think I don't believe Jesus is in the church. If he is, then he is a big failure. What God would make Christian people do so much injustice and destroy the lives of those who believe in Christ from non- Christian families. There's so much favouritism, nepotism, partiality and discrimination in the church in South India that even Hindus are much better than Christians. God and his people ruined my life despite living justly and with kindness. However, the church and its God has blessed my opponent, who did only evil to me, exceedingly. I may say goodbye to this version of Christianity soon. Kindly pray for me.
NT is a Paulian scholar it’s about the subject matter, the context is denominational differences NT quotes Paul as he is the one who addresses division in the early church, Jesus is the foundation ‘I Am’ naturally He can’t be quoted in the discussion however He is now, by the Holy Spirit breaking down walls within the church that are hundreds of years old.
@grahampurkis8733 Yes I know NTW well. He's made a career off Paul. What interests me, though, is that not NTW and not nobody constantly foreground Paul and backgrounds our Lord Jesus.
I agree. Most evangelicals I know are more Paulinistic than Christian. They don't talk about the things Jesus talked about, they don't have the heart for the marginalized who Jesus was obsessed with and have interpreted Jesus through Paul instead of interpreting Paul through Jesus. Though Jesus says that Love is the most important commandment, I hear very few Christians talking about how they can love better. Instead, most Christians I know are obsessed with perfecting their theology not expanding their capacity to love.
@@07triman I get that and really appreciate yours thoughts ( will spend some time thinking 🧐) naturally Paul’s letters are totally Christ centred and need to be read alongside the gospels, I’ve been a recipient of Grace all my life but only began to really understand it 20 years ago ( now 70yrs ) the wonder of the love of God in Christ.
no you don't you don't have to believe in the one god Jesus said ws the greatest command/monotheism you don't have to fall on face in prayer. fast. or abstain from pork as Jesus did nor do you have to conduct sabbath sundown Friday as Jesus did [ muslims all day Friday. christians on Sunday the day Rome worshipped the sun god ]. just do the exact opposite of everything Jesus did and you'll be a good christian. oy vey. muslim 2002
"The Church" is not brick and mortar, that's what men build. And Roman Catholicism is Christian? As someone whose entire family perished by it, you can't fool me.
Sorry Tom there are theories of the Trinity, Atonement, Resurrection, and Baptism and no Common Call or Creed can overcome deep differences. The truth is in the NT.
Thank you to the host and you Bishop Wright. Out here-in the real world, I’m seeing a sort of convergence which Bishop Wright points toward. Kudos.
I grew up in very a low church context. Just over a year ago, i joined a traditional Protestant church with liturgy. I absolutely love the external expressions of our spiritual lives.
I sometimes think the reason for such a question as 'do I have to go to church to be a Christian?' is because so many Christians don't see that that we don't go TO church as believers, but ARE the church! TW's answer is still correct in that we cannot possibly grow to maturity in the faith (Ephesians 4:13-16) unless we are 'in community'. Even then, the community of faith is likened to a household (Galatians 6:10), so that means we regard one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. We are encouraged not to forsake the gathering of believers, and the New Testament is full of references to 'us' and to 'one another' making it clear that we really need each other.
*I am on the Autism Spectrum.* One Thursday night at Prayer Meeting the Pastor verbally attacked me. He said in front of the congregation that I had been rude to his wife and the church pianist! Funny, his wife and in-laws and I talked for the longest time before the service, no one acted as if I had done anything! He never took me aside or mentioned anything until he was preaching that night.
He brought up language: he went on a rant that English only is to be spoken and it is exclusionary to speak anything else in the church. Never mind that two Philippino families habitually speak Tagalog there, and he forgot about when he recently called me over to help a visitor from the Ivory Coast who needed someone to speak French!
I never asked for any other language in the services, even though I speak perfect German as well as decent French. I mentioned that whispering in front of others is just as bad. He said he'd already addressed that, and I replied I hadn't heard him say anything about it.
He went on in the same vein; I got up, put my coat and hat on, and again, in front of the congregation he said "Leaving like a child!" At that point I'd had enough, and replied, "Resorting to name calling!"
As I left he, obviously angry, called out, " God bless you!"
I said nothing and left.
There are only liberal, non Bible believing churches in my area.
*I love the Lord. I just,have trouble with His groupies.*
11:10 Enjoy visiting services. I have spent the spring meeting people this way. Time well spent. There are midweek services too. And the SDA is a church that worships on Saturdays and I am sure they are on a good path also. Now we are all asking Jesus - What shall I do with this new day to which you have brought me?
9:10 All are taught patience.This is another mysterious part of this spiritual journey.
Justin Brierley looks so confident that this conversation is exactly on target. Yes I agree. Amen.
It's about being with other people with whom one can share and perform good works together.
Don't hide your light under a basket.
I'm glad you mentioned kneeling. Imagine 50 yr old new Christian. The fact that my Episcopal Church has kneelers and uses them is one of the things that keeps me going there. It just feels right.
I've spent many hours talking to JWs in the past year. For a while I was hoping we could sort out our differences and I could call them brothers (not that they would call me that), but the more I talked to them the deeper our differences became.
About 6 months ago I found chapter 4 of your book "What Saint Paul Really Said" to be very helpful. TBH, I wasn't a huge fan of the book as a whole ("Justification" is much clearer), but seeing the true deity of the Christ rooted in Paul's reevaluation of the law and the prophets was edifying for my faith. Unfortunately, the biblical arguments didn't move the JWs, but that wasn't the arguments' fault.
As a former JW myself, I thank you for trying. It is, for all practical purposes, a cult.
There are priests that say that the mystery of God is only in church, only through eucaristhy we can find the Mystery !
Why ? for us to comply and go to church ? I can not be a Christian if I'm not going to church ? Do I need to go to university and have a degree in literature to know how to read, write, and know the universal writers ?
Or, touch by God, it's not enough to know by heart the New Testament ? and the good books of famous writers, from T. Wright, Lash, Halik, Radcliffe, Sanders, for example ?
You know, institutions ..
With respect, I used to think this too. It isn't about what some priest or pastor says. It isn't ABOUT 'what you know' or compliance. It is more like building muscles with exercise. Jesus said if we love him we will love one another and that takes practice.
If you can't find a church that really follows what Jesus says to do then start a bible study first, but do it with others. I'll pray for you - please pray for me because we NEED each other to do as the LORD (not an institution) says. God bless
A lot of good folks believe the part in the Bible where God " Come out of HER , HE is talking about the CC ! It was the one that never wanted people to have a Bible and REFUSES to grab on of the FACT that GOD tells people the vail or curtain separating God from everyday people was TORN down at the CROSS ! No longer does a priest have to be confessed to but rather GO STRAIGHT TO GOD in prayer for repenting and LEARNING FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT !!!!!
I had a friend recently make this same point about no need to confess your sins to anyone other than God, which made sense in the moment. Then, I heard a sermon that made a valid point about confession shortly after. The sermon quoted James 5:16: Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
And then it went into the benefits of confessing your sins to one another. But it emphasized that confession didn't have to be specifically to a priest in a confession box, though it is good to find someone you can trust. The benefits were things like accountability, love & encouragement when needed, sharing how God is working in & through the struggle as a testimony, being able to have others come alongside you to pray, and much more.
I thought it was a great sermon!
, but confession to another sister or brother, while commended/commanded in Scripture and certainly valuable, doesn't secure forgiveness, which is what differentiates it from the Roman Catholic claims surrounding confession.
To be Christian is to be allowed into the activity of letting God build the kingdom through you.
Call it church or something else, that's what it is.
John 13: 34 & 35 - Imagine
amen
Thank you, interesting
I thought the C of E didn’t like using the word church anymore!
That's what the infallible Justin Welby says😅😂😅😂😅😂😅
The Globus Cruciger is a inverted egyptian Ankh, and if one understands the ordering of the elements and spiritual forces shown as a cross, one has a system of either being ordered by an outside authority figure or an inner understanding that is the foundation of your life. The essence of what i write here is extracted from scripture although by being interested in many more subjects than that, which surround such scriptures, needs to be taken into account. The christian scriptures tell you to overcome the elemental spiritual forces and become cognizant of their infuences, but alas, studying the words alone, like a recipe for making dough, does not get the bread baked. Collosians 2 : 20 - 23 Upon the celestial sphere pointed towards here Job 38:31-33 one can find Cephas, also known as Peter, Matthew 16:23 also known as Cepheus upon the sphere and the Dragon written about in Revelation. Draco the Lawgiver. Hathor is El Shaddai, is the Dragon. Christ is King of all kings. John 8:12 Mashallah ibn Athari will shed light upon jacobs ladder and how through studying the signs in heaven how it effects human life. Take care , peace be upon you all.
Get help, snookums
Over American history how many homes have been robbed or burnt down while at Church ?
Once I have faith and belief that Christ died for my sins, why should I go to church? Do you realize what such a belief entails?
What belief are you talking about? That one should go to church?
For fellowship with the body of Christ? You are a member of the body whose head is Christ Himself.
Problem solved as you must go to church as there was no atonement at the Cross, Jesus was the Messiah as witnessed by John, and as John 5:24 it was the word of God he brought that we must believe and obey for eternal life. He is Judge of those in the church which is for sanctification.
He came and died in order for you to be able to participate in his kingdom. You don't have to do it. It's a choice. You will live eternal regardless, either alone or with all the other sinners, accepting their shortcomings in love or sitting outside gnashing teeth at how imperfect the others are.
Same reason there's forums, and communities, and gathering events. For Discipleship, fellowship, and accountability. Even Jesus honored that, although he’s God he didn't need anyone.
What's the point of replaying the same episodes over and over?
Catholics find Mary a person we can do without??? Not here in the US.
👀
Which joke do they mean at 6.00? Someone please fill me in.
After twenty plus years in Christ, I think I don't believe Jesus is in the church. If he is, then he is a big failure. What God would make Christian people do so much injustice and destroy the lives of those who believe in Christ from non- Christian families. There's so much favouritism, nepotism, partiality and discrimination in the church in South India that even Hindus are much better than Christians. God and his people ruined my life despite living justly and with kindness. However, the church and its God has blessed my opponent, who did only evil to me, exceedingly. I may say goodbye to this version of Christianity soon. Kindly pray for me.
I'm appalled at how much Paul is THE focus and just how infrequently Jesus is whom we concern ourselves with or even mention. Very off the rails.
NT is a Paulian scholar it’s about the subject matter, the context is denominational differences NT quotes Paul as he is the one who addresses division in the early church, Jesus is the foundation ‘I Am’ naturally He can’t be quoted in the discussion however He is now, by the Holy Spirit breaking down walls within the church that are hundreds of years old.
@grahampurkis8733 Yes I know NTW well. He's made a career off Paul. What interests me, though, is that not NTW and not nobody constantly foreground Paul and backgrounds our Lord Jesus.
I agree. Most evangelicals I know are more Paulinistic than Christian. They don't talk about the things Jesus talked about, they don't have the heart for the marginalized who Jesus was obsessed with and have interpreted Jesus through Paul instead of interpreting Paul through Jesus. Though Jesus says that Love is the most important commandment, I hear very few Christians talking about how they can love better. Instead, most Christians I know are obsessed with perfecting their theology not expanding their capacity to love.
@@07triman 100% right!
@@07triman I get that and really appreciate yours thoughts ( will spend some time thinking 🧐) naturally Paul’s letters are totally Christ centred and need to be read alongside the gospels, I’ve been a recipient of Grace all my life but only began to really understand it 20 years ago ( now 70yrs ) the wonder of the love of God in Christ.
no you don't you don't have to believe in the one god Jesus said ws the greatest command/monotheism you don't have to fall on face in prayer. fast. or abstain from pork as Jesus did nor do you have to conduct sabbath sundown Friday as Jesus did [ muslims all day Friday. christians on Sunday the day Rome worshipped the sun god ]. just do the exact opposite of everything Jesus did and you'll be a good christian. oy vey. muslim 2002
"The Church" is not brick and mortar, that's what men build. And Roman Catholicism is Christian? As someone whose entire family perished by it, you can't fool me.
Sorry Tom there are theories of the Trinity, Atonement, Resurrection, and Baptism and no Common Call or Creed can overcome deep differences. The truth is in the NT.