The kcon one got me PISSSEDD cause who tf are you?!?!?!?!? to shout that to someone who DOESN'T EVEN KNOW YOU?! some fans are getting TOO COMFORATABLE these days and its so annoying! And yes i do agree that idols should be allowed to call out fans for their nasty actions.
These kpoppies are too parasocial, like what genuinely goes on in these people's minds?? These idols are not your besties, you may be a fan, but you're still a stranger. Especially when they're interacting with international fans. It's like they forget all types of respect and manners ,but at the same time will go on Twitter talking about how rude certain fans are, like brother that's you!!!
Right. Theyre not your friends so that person needs to know boundaries and stop getting comfortable woth everyone else. One day theyll get called out by someone in their life about this. Also, its clear they havent been humbled in their life and everyone let that person act like that their whole life. This is why they still act like this and its now affecting an idol. Anyways, the point is that person needs to be humble and told to stfu. Cause not everyone is your friend.
something that bothered me for a long time is also the entitlement during lives, when idols are talking in Korean. the amount of comments I saw requesting them to "stop speaking Korean, talk in english" is ridiculous. and sometimes the comments are so rude, I don't get how someone would think that in any scenario this is ok. nobody is entitled to idols speaking english, even if they are able to.
I know asking idols to speak English can be seen as rude, but I get why people do it. They just want to be included in the conversation and the lives don't have subtitles. Generally I don't watch the lives when I know an idol wont speak English unless it's something special like a birthday live. Otherwise I wait for clips with subs or for other fans to post translations.
@@angiee1603 yeah you’re right, I didn’t mean the comments where fans asked if the idol could talk in english, I meant the ones literally demanding it and getting upset if the idol didn’t do it immediately… and yes, it’s sometimes frustrating not knowing what’s going on, but in this case, as you said we have the option to watch it wish subs later 😊 thankfully there are lovely souls like hongjoongis pinky, who did such a great job with the translation 🥰🥰
@@angiee1603well then that’s being chronically online. Go do smth else while you wait for the subs. Aly nicely or that’s it leave if you don’t get watch you want or just enjoy body language
@@angiee1603does the intention behind why they're asking even matter? It's still rude and reeks of entitlement , esp since they're consuming Korean media. They should know that the idols are obv gonna speak kr and shouldn't let their need to feel included in the conversation cause them to act disrespectfully
@nnuu7618 I think intentions matter. I don't think it's wrong for international fans to want to be close to their idols. These live streams give fans the opportunity to connect to idols in ways they normally can't. For that to be just another thing we can't have on top of all the other things international fans don't get is frustrating. Getting fan subs after the live is over is not the same as being a part of the live conversation. Also empathy is important too. We should attempt to understand others before we pass judgment and be hateful towards them.
Basically just chronically online, socially awkward people being compelled by their overwelming need to interact with their idols and the results are just as you expect. At least when it comes to non english speaking idols, theres a level of disconnect that prevents this.
Yeah this is basically the issue lol. They spend too much time on Stan Twitter and forget to change their tone and behavior to match normal people. A lot of the things they say would be weird to say even to an american artist, it's not just about the language or culture of the country, just that it's fucking weird to talk like that to strangers; In general i find that people are much worse when it comes to parasocial behaviors and crossing boudaries with celebrities nowadays. There were always crazies in fandoms but social media normalizes this attitude a lot more, and even turn it into fun challenges or ways to gain clout. The many tiktoks about idiots being wildly inappropriate at concerts for clout and attention are another example of people just being so chronically online and obsessed with online clout that they forget how to act.
@@KookiesNollywhenever I see something crazy on Stan Twitter I always tell them “now tell this to a real person in real life, how would they react/how does it sound”. I saw people getting mad that people brought other light sticks to an AESPA concert while AESPA themselves made a game out of it 😅
I had second-hand embarrasament watching these videos of mark fan calls. Like,do people really think the idols are some kind of toy? They are human being,they are not your toy and they will never be your husband/wife or your best friend.
they are incredibly disturbing to watch. it's even worse when you put it into perspective by realising that this kind of harassment would not be tolerated towards most workers by law, but flies under the radar because kpop idols are exploited to absolutely no end.
@@erinlee5936Lee soo man admitted himself his ideas from American and Japanesd groups. Kpop just copied and pasted it and tried to act like it was new.
most kpop fans have issues with socialising in person, they have no idea how to socialise in person im not surprised they dont know how to speak to idols who are strangers
I think there is also a deep resentment towards idols being rich. And so what? They earned the money. But fans believe that they are the ones paying their salary. Which isn’t exactly accurate. Sure, fans are important. But to say if weren’t for the fans this person wouldn’t be famous. And this logic makes zero sense to me. Because what it gives me is the impression that the idol didn’t do any work of their own. The fame was just handed to them by us.
Im so glad we’re starting to see how toxic and problematic western audiences are towards these idols cause we always sweep it under the rug or blame everything toxic on Korean netizens.
Fancalls can be some of the best interactions or worst interactions between fans and idols. I saw a fancall once of this girl complimenting soobin, and it was so sweet, and he even teared up it was just so wholesome. And another where this other person talked to Seonghwa abt star wars. We need more positive memorable fancalls and not the weird, uncomfortable ones like the vernon or felix fancalls. I really think idols should be able to skip calls or something because 2 minutes in an uncomfortable situation must be miserable. Also, i think there was this one person who got multiple calls with san in one session like they just kept appearing again and again if i remember correctly.
!!!! And what I can say, some mutuals I have on TikTok have had multiple fancalls with idols and the idols remember them because they’re nice or normal or fun and the idol likes them. If you’re on a fancall telling mark you were mad that he hugged or looked at another fan Im sure ANYBODY would try to erase that person from their mind
Exactly we have lots of English speaking K-Pop idols that come from or grew up in various countries but instead of being appreciated all of the non English speaking idols are told to speak English and the ones that are, are told not to. Smh 🤦♀️
totally agree with this. this reminds me of aespa's newest song 'better things' being purely in english, or like twice's 'the feels' being purely in english, everyone sings praises bc they're korean singing in english, but on the other hand we have perfect english speaking idols like jessi or even black swan (that sings in korean) and they're totally underappreciated... so odd
Oh,Yes! XD i noticed the english speakers if in a group of koreans get okay reception cos of the group as a whole, compared to soloists or pure foreigners type (e.g. Tiffany from SNSD got a lot of remarks on her "good pronunciation" when she's native english speaking to begin with)@@gwenmloveskpopandmore
Honestly at some point and time we’ll have a generation where many former idols, current idols, And non idol parents aren’t letting their kids becoming K-Pop Idols to protect them, so competition won’t be as bad and only 19-20 new groups would debut
They'll end up replacing them with AI-generated subscription-payment idols that can cater to fans' every whim. There are already "virtual girlfriend/boyfriend" apps out there so it's not a big conceptual leap, but the potential impact on the dodgier end of the fan spectrum of having that level of interaction and control is terrifying.
unfortunately, teens have and will always wanna be kpop idols, especially since kpop is becoming more and more big. even if ex idols kids dont become idols themselves, other kids from normal non celeb families will still have a fairytale vision about idol life and will wanna be idols. So i dont think competition will go down anytime soon,,,
Wait, your telling me that in the Mark Lee fancall, the "fan" is mad at him for hugging other girls?! 😳😳😳😳 im just saying if I was an idol and a "fan" of mine was upset that i was hugging other fans, I would've simply say "Im sorry you feel that way but you have to understand not everyone dosent have the same opportunities as you" and i cant be the only one who is upset seeing the same people on these fan video calls. SMH
and the fact they've definitely done more than 2 or 3 times speaking to him.... I can't even get the chance to greet my fave and just say i support them, because it's all on the number of albums you order to try and get in and I have no energy or money to try so hard anymore...
@MikuHatsune159 I totally understand, and I still don't understand that "fan" who is mad that mark forget them 5 times like ARE YOU FOR REAL?! I dont understand the "fan" viewpoint
tbh I think a lot of entitlement fans behavior comes from the fact that they act as if they know the idol personally/are friends with them. I have seen so many video's where fans really act like they are besties with their idols.this delusional behaviour is just crazy. nowadays some people get a bit TOO comfortable with their idols and they don't seem to realize how uncomfortable, scary or dangerous it is for the idols, because they are too caught up in their own little fantasies.
yeah but the management and companies of these idols are also guilty in encouraging this kind of delusional behavior. some male groups will call their fans their girlfriends and tell them to not cheat on them with other men. even these constant fan meetings, fancalls,fan signs, etc. fuel the delusion. western artists rarely meet and talk with their fans this often. at most you can pay for a more expensive ticket to meet them for a few minutes before the show and take a picture but westerns artists don’t have whole fansign tours anymore or do one on one calls with fans
also the way english speaking idols are hold to higher standards because according to kpop stans they are the "open minded ones" in the industry. or the way people call them cringe when they say something they don't like but if they said it in korean no one would bat an eye. I think kpop stans are so absorbed into "korean culture/mindset" that they think bashing english speaking idols automatically makes them smarter and somehow feel validated by korean people.
Also In western interviews some hosts are being rude and racist by saying ur English is so good especially if they come from an English speaking country. Some examples include SKZ Felix, Mark ofc, and SNSD Tiffany. Reminder not all K-Pop Idols only speak Korean or only come from Korea although that wasn’t always the case.
It's blatant racism. They act as if there isn't English speaking people who are Asian in their country (which they obviously know there is). Plus they or the show's team should have done research on the artist (so that the host doesn't look like an idiot) and we all know that to get the basic info about idols, it just takes a simple Google search... usually everything is on Wikipedia too.
Omg yess this, it makes me cringe so bad!! Johnny getting complimented for his English and saying 'I'm from Chicago' is like engrained in my brain 😭 and when they do this to Aussie idols, like do you not hear the accent?!
Yess this!! It's disrespectful not to give your guests the common courtesy of a quick search up in advance, like surely a that would make preparing questions for them even easier too (and would make sure they're actually appropriate)
I believe I wasn't just Fatou that has seen the nair video unfortunately. I have seen other lives of other Kpop idols where fans kept asking to watch the video ( I think jungkook is 1 of them, not sure tho) honestly I find it so disgusting to do that to them. ( honestly these days so many 'fans' ask their idols to watch really weird things and it's just so disrespectful and immature) the first time I heard about the hair video was in TikTok. someone made a video about how shocking it is or something so that people would watch it. eventually it became a trend where people make videos where they show the video to someone and record their reaction and those toxic Kpop stans decided to go with this trend. it is absolutely disgusting that people think it is okay or normal to show someone a private part without them knowing what they will be seeing. even these 'fans' just laugh at the idols reaction and think its just okay to do that because its a TikTok trend. like please don't do this, it can be traumatizing to some people and it is very uncomfortable for them. have some respect. (I also feel like it's mostly the younger Kpop fans(like teens) or new Kpop stans that behave like this. from what I have seen at least.)
Why would people want other people watch that thing..... like when I know what's that video is, I literally never and ever try to touch that video, so why some people want others watch that :")) like not everybody comfortable with that kind of stuff right
NCT have some of the worse saesangs I have seen. And its always the same ones for over a number of years!! The fact that SM is just now taking legal action against them is wild to me. There is definitely someone working on the staffing or on the inside of SM distributing there personal information. I also think the false perceptions NCTzens have of the boys also contributes to it. NCTzens treat the boys like hot garbage and make them seem like they are these unruly frat boys but we don't know them!! They aren't your befriends or boyfriends so why treat them and talk to them as such?
Quite interesting Topic to discuss about how certain fans and media ask very inappropriate questions towards the artists either on social media or in a interview. These so called fans don’t have any respect the artists who unfortunately have a sick and twisted entitlement towards the Idols again it’s another example of a Patasocial mindset
ahhh i was cringing so much watching the mark fansign. How he did just laugh in their face and end the call i dont know. Also what an intresting video idea. i have never noticed this (maybe because i rarely go on stan twitter) but thank you for yet another amazing youtube video.
Mark is better than me cause I would've shut that shit down immediately in fear of cursing her out and getting the management up my ass. The deluluness... the audicity... ppffffff
actually really reminds me of whenever i had to be reasonable and friendly with customers at my last job when they were acting super off putting and weird, and i mean, that checks out, since this is part of his job. i hope he can shit talk about these calls with his manager and fellow members lol
Im glad someone finally talked about this. International fans are always bragging about how we're so much better than Korean fans and always blaming them for being toxic and not treating idols like the humans they are, but I-fans are literally no better than toxic Knetz. Theyre even worse than they are sometimes, tbh like y'all are well aware or should be aware by now of how different Korean culture is from their own, so what makes you think you can talk or treat idols any way you want, regardless of if they were raised in a English-speaking country or not? It only goes to show how these people are and how a lot of them really dont view idols as human like they claim and brag about.
Also wanted to add that Mark's fancall incident is the reason why I think a fan should only be allowed to meet their faves once if they get picked and if the person gets on the fancall with their faves and tries to treat them like how she treated Mark, then the idol in question should be allowed to hang up the call and that person should get permanently banned from talking to the specific group ever again.
That fancall with Mark was so dramatic, why would he remember you? You are only a fan, not a friend, not a coworker, not family, they have no reason to know you
I knew fans are delusional but THIS delusional 🙄🤦♀ If I was Mark and saw this same girl that pretty much insulted me I would hang up on the call and tell the manager to block this person from ever entering and give another fan a chance. Like how ungrateful do you have to be? These idols see so many fans...it highly unlikely they remember unless they have a smaller fanbase and then still, like WTH 😮💨
i have noticed fans treat English speaking idols like they are there bros and Korean speaking idols like royalty you know damn well fans wont talk to BM of KARD and Seongwha from ATEEZ the same
Idols always seem to have fan managers watching their online content; those people need to spend a bit less time policing spoilers and accidental swears and a lot more time policing dodgy supposed "fans". The idols themselves too need to be empowered to permanently block anyone who is that disrespectful or possessive or invasive, and frankly some of those people probably need professional help. Unfortunately people like this will be unavoidable, so idols should also receive training and support in dealing with them. That need was really apparent with Mark Lee - you could see he was trying to get the fan back on side, which was probably what he was told and trained to do to avoid any career-ending "Idol was mean to fan during fansign" headlines, instead of being able to just say she was being unreasonable and unfair and just end the call.
@@SonderDAzeX I wouldn't say "ban" the fan gifts...but I would definitely have people search through them and immediately remove anything that might cause harm to them physically or emotionally. Even in prisons, you have someone who will search through gifts to find anything bad. I am sure that idols do appreciate their fan gifts as long as they are appropriate and not meant to cause any harm.
I think this happens because of two (well three) things. 1. Idealisation of Korea and by extent Korean idols. Inferiority complex surrounding their home country (which speaks English). 2. Parasocial relationships fuelled by speaking the same language. The idealisation of Korea has a lot to do with them not living in Korea and likely consuming copious amounts of content pushed to them by the youtube algorithm that glorifies or portrays Korea in a favourable manner. This pipeline leads to no negative content being shown to them. By comparison to this utopia they are advertised, their home country seems a lot worse->their inferiority complex surrounding their home nation. In comparison to other idols, the shared language and lack of barrier leads to them being more relatable. Fans then find them more easily approachable (they don’t have to think abt their messages and use translators to communicate) this leads to the idol being treated like a “member of the gang” wherein fans act like they have a preexisting personal relationship and feel like they can joke around with the idol insultingly with it being perceived as just a well meant joke. Edit: Afterthought; this is also why they infantilise Korean idols so much. Dk what’s worse, to be trapped in a parasocial echo chamber, or to be incessantly infantilised by people younger than you. Apologies for the lengthy dive into this.
Seems like a huge stretch an I'm not seeing the correlation- but there is truth to this "utopia" image of Korea- America for example is incredibly dangerous, divided and scary. Simply looking at the crime statistics will tell you why americans want an escape from American pop culture which is objectively worse than Korean pop culture (drugs, violence, inappropriate, crude and vile lyrics/concepts) Americans want an escape, and they find it in K-media- but that doesn't automatically make it somehow wrong or unfounded- it has basis in reality- the cultural difference is also a huge factor. If you've ever been to Korea you'd KNOW Korean people (due to our polar opposite cultures) act differently than Americans. They're a lot more... Put together than Americans and by extension more respectable. They carry themselves in a uniquely "korean" way, and people find that fascinating and are interested by it- the same way Koreans may think the same way about Americans- we are naturally curious of eachother and notice the stark difference in behavior between the two of us and thus will consume more media from that place. You aren't really exposing anything unhealthy and "fantastical" about people that like Korean media because of how they carry themselves, it's the most natural thing in the world- we literally couldn't be farther apart in terms of geography or culture, not everybody acts like Americans you know? Different people are different. People tend to not like American Korean idols because they AREN'T Korean, they just masquerade and try to fit in, but they aren't really koreans and can only really see the Korean society from the outside looking in and thus will act and behave like an American/Australian (or whatever) and that's typically a turnoff. American celebrities have this stigma about them (you know what I'm talking about) and not wanting to invest out time/emotions into them is form of self defence, western culture tend to produce very dysfunctional and morally corrupt famous people, it's a strong stigma that Koreans- for the most part avoid. Because they are different. Even when a Korean is fluent in english (not a Korean-amercian, a real Korean) they use the langauge differently, in a way that is uniquely Korean- unless they code switch to "La Valley Girl" accent to earn the "true fluency" card. The Korean and English language also function completely differently. Koreans have terms and mannerisms that add an extra layer to normal conversations amongst people that can't be translated into English- so something is lost there as well. As an old king once said (forgot his name) "I speak to the lord in spanish, to my quire in french and to my comrades in english" different languages carry different feelings to them and inspire different conversational routes that make them unique. Like how "aegyo" is cute to Koreans in Korean, but totally embarrassing when translated to english because our languages aren't compatible.
Inferiority complex for English speaking countries I.e. Canada, U.S., and the UK whose cultural influences Korea works above and beyond to attempt to emulate ???😊
4:29 literally most of idols lie about remembering you, a great example is a fancall of Joshua, where a fan asked him "do you remember me?" and he answered "yes" but it was actually their first time meeting
It kills me how often I see international fans hating on k-fans and saying that they "don't deserve all the content they get" but when THEY get opportunities to interact with idols without a language barrier- they act like this. Like fan culture is different everywhere but no matter what you should disrespect and make uncomfortable someone you support. We DONT know idols personally, and being an idol is their job- it's fine to be friendly but there's a clear line not to cross.
They are a couple more instances like skz Felix when a fan ask him if Felix wants to eat her for dessert or another one when a fan asks kards B.M when he lost his V-card people need to know boundaries
What is with the sense of entitlement? I swear its like it's getting worse. I was amazed when I had a celebrity remember me years later when I met them a 2nd time. For context, it was a convention that I went to almost yearly and though he used to be a guest periodically, I didn't consistently go to his signings. The first time I only met him randomly in the venue because he noticed I was wearing merch from a show he hosted, and so I got a chance photo with him. The second time was a signing at the event and he vaguely recognised me as a fan he'd met before. In regards to idols speaking English on lives... I used to watch one of my fave group's live show weekly. None of the members are significantly fluent in English but they'd introduce the show in multiple languages including English. I made sure to send a message praising their English skills (which were good, not just empty praise). They didn't need to bother with English, the whole show was in Korean but they made the decision to introduce it and even read some English comments. And I was glad they managed to read it, so that they knew their efforts were appreciated.
It does seem to be getting worse, you're right! It's so amazing that a celebrity you met recognised you after years of meeting them only once 😱 I love that! (And thank you so much for helping make artists who are making the effort to communicate with us in English feel appreciated!💖)
My husband and I had a similar experience with a celebrity we met for the first time ever. She was sure she had seen us in New York together but the thing is...we don't live in New York, nor had we ever been there in our lifetimes. Both of us were born and bred in the Midwest. :) That's when we knew doppelgangers were for real. :) She was super nice though.
@@dearyoongi IKR, its one of the reasons I don't "participate" in fandoms any more. There's less community. Yeah, it was really shocking but awesome. I'm glad that the majority of my experiences meeting celebrities have ranged from good to great (though there has been the odd uncomfortable situation or the "maybe they're having a bad day" moment). Of course! As someone with anxiety, I see the anxiety when some non-English speaking idols try to communicate in English. This is why I also try my best to communicate in Korean or Japanese (as much as I can) when commenting on livestreams.
If you want idols to remember you then you should do something outstanding nice for them. Like that girl dancing "Mania" in a horse costume for SKZ Han. I'm pretty sure he will never forget her and love her forever.
Oh I love if we could reach a point where idols can call out rude people and "fans". If there was anyone these people would listen to, it'd be the "object of their fantasies" and people they worship
I’ve been saying this sense of entitlement from western fans started with 3rd gen. 2nd gen we were just thankful for what we got lol which was barely anything. We were lucky if they even came to the states. The idols that spoke English never spoke English ever. You will only hear speak English in a one off video on tumblr when they were with their friends and you had to dig to find it. You had to wait for fans to translate which could take weeks to months. So we had no choice to be grateful for what we got. But these new fans are something else.
@@luckyxxxxk I don’t like to point to social media. But it definitively did a hand in creating an illusion that you can be close to a celebrity. I personally never understood that mentality. I respect people’s privacy. It doesn’t matter if they are richer or poorer than me. I think now people sadly had forgot how to treat other people. Let’s hope the future generations will be better.
Just the audacity of certain "fans" upsets me. It's hard enough being an idol, let alone having people act all weird if they happen to be an English speaker. I remember that video of Sullyoon from NMIXX being hit on at a US fan meeting that gave me so much second hand embarassment. Props for doing this video to shed some light on the mistreatment English-speaking idols do continuously get.
I remember seeing so many video's of Vernon from Seventeen with a cringe and disrespectful fans and like he says can you pleas stop but they keep going till the end of the call, i felt so sad for him
So you see that western fans aren't that different from sasaengs in the end. We spent time bashing those sasaengs, when we behave just like them the moment they come to our countries or when they speak our language.
So..what's the point? We shouldn't have spent time bashing sasaengs? (Or we shouldn't behave like sasaengs bash sasaeng behaviour irrespective of country and language? )
I feel like we need to discuss the differences between non-English native speakers and those who can. Artists who can speak English are treated like this and idols who can't are disrespected. For example, Jisoo from Blackpink has had a fan in I'm gonna say goth clothes in one of the Berlin shows and because Jisoo did not jump up and down or something so accused her of being a conservative.
Oh and if you end up doing a follow up to this video you could include the crazy inappropriate flirting felix from stray kids had to deal with, most likely because he spoke english and could understand it. It was a virtual fan sign, the girl asked if they were skipping the meal and she was his dessert or something like that. He just laughed awkwardly and looked very uncomfortable. Hyunjin also had one where someone asked him to call them "mom".
The reason why it doesn’t happen to non English speaking idols isn’t just because of ack of entitlement but mainly because they think that they have a similar or same kind of humour with English speakers ones. Imagining that they use, prefer and feel more liberated on the English side of social media, specifically Stan Twitter and Tiktok. About every idol who has spent at least 2 years in an English country is considered as more mature, secretly dirty minded and definitely open minded than others. It all comes down to the prejudice that East Asians are more “closed” (puritan/conservative etc, keep in mind that conservative is different to everyone depending on their origins and nationality). As well as the prejudice that westerners are more party goers etc. Honestly, it’s true to some social extent overall. Even as someone from a francophone African country, we view westerners and anglophone Africans as more wild than us overall (not universal, in general). However, we would say that on the simple day to day life we might be wilder, but we don’t use substances or do the same kind of parties and promote secs and re so comfortable like Stan Twitter. These things are there and are done but not like westerners (Europeans and Americans). Also because of the idols’ reactions to English memes, them finding all that cool, the viral “American air” videos of the same exact idols at concerts in SK and USA just one week later, sometimes twerking and saying some bad words too; it all gives the impression that they feel more “liberated” outside of East Asian countries. The fans think that they aren’t as “close minded” as what they would think the average East Asian is. They must understand that even if they indeed feel more liberated overseas, it doesn’t mean that they have the Stan Twitter humour and laugh off at whatever. This kind of humour and comfort is to be avoided even with western celebrities. It’s not JUST parasocial relationship with idols. It’s not knowing how to behave outside of social media. Some fans might just want to make the idols laugh but they are inappropriately too comfortable with that. On the internet, they could get respectfully put at their place with understanding of a possible misunderstanding of humour from the receiver, but in real life it’s very awkward and uncomfortable for that same receiver. It’s easy to me to say “Please, understand that I am not like that, talk with me differently” but in real life I would first open my eyes wide for 5 seconds processing what the person said/asked and with what audacity. Someone commented it in the comment section too.
The Mark case, omg ? lol. Girl, it would be a miracle if an idol remembers you… They met strangers and talk with tons of people every day. For an interaction of seconds you’re really forgettable in the next minute, just shut up.
These idols are mostly from english speaking countries where the cultures and values are not as strict as Asian countries. Fans think these idols are friendly so they arbitrarily say and do things to them, thinking they won't take it seriously because "they're chill, laid back and fun", to the point that they fail to realize that the things they say and do to these idols are inappropriate and crossing the line
Learning English is optional. Sure it makes communication easier but you don't have to know english to be educated or just a decent person. The obsession with idols speaking English is so weird like it should just be seen as an additional skill not something magnificent. The way stan throw shade to non speaking english idols that they should learn from others is so terrible.
Thank you 🙏🏿, I am way passed these overly possessive entitled stupid people thinking they own idols. Idols need more room to speak up and speak out against these sick people. Companies need to allow fans right to defend themselves. I hope more companies take legal actions against these sick people. That one with the stalker in idol hotel room is beyond sick. I hope that person gets prosecuted and punish. Enough is enough
I 100% agree that westerners/english speakers can act entitled and ask extremely inappropriate questions from idols but to me some of this is learned behavior from within the kpop community of watching how koreans interact with idols. I seriously cannot believe the sense of entitlement kfans have over idols personal lives, specifically romantic relationships. heaven forbid you date someone or even worse want to get married and start a family, look at what happened to Chen. if that sort of irrational precedent for that type of behavior hadn’t already been set I wonder if westerners would be so comfortable speaking so…freely with english speaking idols? not trying to start any sort of big debate or argument here, just something I feel like maybe wasn’t considered so please do not get mad at me if you disagree 👉👈
I feel like english speaking fans are cut up into two categories - Americans and every other person. Americans have this culture and humour that crosses boundaries sometimes (this is coming from an australian who has americans in my family) and Skorea is a conservative country and crossing their boundaries is easier to do. Americans are too quick to treat everyone else as an American. The idols aren't your friends and don't know you so calling them insults as a joke or joking around like you know them is so weird. Not saying other english speaking countries don't do this to idols but american fans who use american culture with other countries have to realise that every other country has their own culture and what they see as appropriate
what u mean, australians will cut a b. their humor is the best but they are savage. i'm not about to say let's get in a fight about it, but what i've seen is my aussies can hold their own and then some. ♡
australians only use australian humour with other australians that they are relatively close with but americans seem to think everyone around the world has american humour@@Lei3195i
It's easy to blame so called "Americans" and that's part of why this situation perpetuates. If you listen to the accents, quite a few aren't even close to American. Yet their actions are covered up as they're blamed on the fans of one nationality and excuses the collective kpop fan base from the accountability that is desperately needed. Also, there are also behaviors/humor/etc from that people might think aren't so direct to them but still come off as rude, aggressive, etc to other cultures. Even if you aren't trying this can still be the case. This isn't limited to one nationality.
This is an interesting topic. I've never thought of it like this. For me, I think it is partly cultural. Respect is something built into the Korean language in a way that is absent from English. So English generally does sound less respectful than Korean and Americans especially are more direct than some other English speakers. Combine the nature of English as a language with fan entitlement and this is what you get. The entitlement shown in those clips isn't that different from what you get from Korean fans. What that fan said to Mark about hugging other fans ain't that different from Korean fans protesting Chen from EXO for getting married or the backlash from the rumors of BTS's V dating.
It's not exclusive to American fans. Also, this sort of thing happens in reverse too in different contexts. Rudeness, making people uncomfortable, not considering the feelings of others... this comes from entitlement of one individual towards another, and its always awful-- whether we're discussing celebrities, or more "mundane" situations like foreigners who stick out in heterogenious populations in other countries.
You are kind of right, I am a linguist and it’s true that the way our languages are formulated effect how our society is and/or is often a result of our society effect on it. Our way of thinking changes and that’s why learning multiple languages makes us more versatile and empathetic than before. Polyglots understand the way of thinking of others beyond words. It’s obvious that it’s not just the English language but stan Twitter and Tiktok humour specifically. It’s not just about having a parasocial relationship but about being chronically online. Stan Ts are known for their very informal, sometimes chatotic and sarcastic and sometimes even purposely disrespectful tones and ways. With a lot of use of AAVE. Because it’s literally “stan…” it has the characteristic of being mainly into pop culture and social media popular influences. Kpop is one of those big social media community and so there are many kpop fans in stan T. It has spread a lot though, it’s language is used even in other topics and fandoms , it’s now simply “internet humour” so not everyone who uses a bit of it is as unhinged as stan T users.
@@matrix-theoriginal.7266Thank You! Even english has changed dramatically in its usage/feelings in modern day to back in the 1920's-1940's for example. Look up some videos of "Americans" from that time period and listen to them speak- they speak the same words as people of today and the pronunciation is mostly the same but they Inspire totally different feelings. They have/had... Character in their voice, a unique color that made english seem alive in a way that seems absent today. I don't know what it is, but modern day english is grating on my ears. Yes I understand it, but where we are culturally and in what we represent (or lack thereof nowadays) makes everything that somebody says in english sound so disingenuous. It's like our language is a window to the soul- how we speak and the language we use directly tell people a lot about ourselves. This is why I am very favorable to Koreans- whether they speak english or not because of the values most of them hold themselves to- it shows in their dialect and I can detect it and immediately respect them more. It's difficult to put into words but I know that what I'm saying/feeling has been deep roots in psychology and even spirituality to some degree. Sorry for the almost incoherent comment- those who understand understand.
Thank you for this video! The entitlement of English speaking fans is one aspect of K-pop that I have really disliked. I'm Atiny and even though the boys are all Korean, most aren't great with English except Hongjoong, (though they're getting better all the time) because Atiny is so global there's still some really annoying fans every live with comments like "speak English" "I can't understand you lol". Like?! And the outrage Atiny had at their new platform when it didn't immediately have translations like 🤦🏻♀️ they're Korean. Translations are an extra that we should be grateful for, not just expect. Even now that we have them, they complain about the quality. Ugh. Even when I was a stay, people would complain when Chan or Felix spoke Korean instead of English. But Chan often spoke up for himself and said he'd speak in whatever language he wanted so that was good. Sorry for the rant haha. This is an issue that gets me fired up too 😄
My thing is this: if you don’t go treating non celebrities this way- do NOT act a fool and show your entire @$$ embarrassing yourself online when interacting with an idol. A lot of y’all new stans lack some home training smh…
It's so ridiculous that so many will be blessed with the opportunity to do a fan-call just to waste it on being gross like ??? it's such sasaeng behaviour that they'd rather be remembered negatively than just be happy by being another fan.
There's also kpop "fans" who call English-speaking idols cringy, or completely ignore them. It's most obvious to the 2nd and 3rd generation ASC hosts and Dive Studios hosts and guests, like Amber, Jamie, Kevin (Woo), Heejun, Jae (though after what he did to Jamie..... 🙅♀🤬)... I think Henry Lau also got that hate....
those fansign calls.... save mark lee. i also never get the double-sided delulu fans who wanna be delulu, but don't have empathy for anyone else actually living the delulu dream lol. if you really wanna date him, would *you* want to be on the receiving end of nasty comments?
I’ve seen these events happening so many times, and while majority of my experiences are with idols who are still learning English, such as the Golden Child members. I met the Golden Child members and one fan got really pissed off that my phone was taken by Bomin, but also hated the fact he complimented my shirt, and she smacked my phone out of my hand after he handed the phone back, like it’s just ridiculous the way these western fan acts so entitled. I’ve seen fans pissed at other fans for getting a selfie at a concert over them, getting the vip experience over them. Like these fans are bold, if I was on a fansign, id probably just sit in awe because I get the chance to meet someone like that, like i really don’t understand how some people get so cringey and pissed and think that the idol is the problem and they aren’t the problem.
as someone who got into kpop in 2018… i miss how kpop was back then so much. i can remember when kpop twt started getting toxic, more and more seemingly every year (especially since 2020 onwards). this video has summed up all of the frustrations i’ve felt with kpop stans recently. a lot of fans are extremely delusional, and very entitled. i also just fucking hate twitter so much, i feel like it’s a popularity contest all the time of stans who wanna get the most retweets and likes. also (certain fandoms are worse than others) but the amount of sexualized and unfiltered tweets i see about idols as well makes me really uncomfortable
The problem is that the second idol will confront the entitled fan. The entitled fan will play as a victim. And unfortunately the entitled fan will get defended by other people in social media. Because the entitled fan is one of us. By us I mean the working class. Of course their are entitled fans that are rich. But for the most part I see it coming from regular people that work in stores or other areas.
Remember guys even if they’re English-speaking idols that came from English-speaking countries there’s still a gap in both cultures and they’re obviously not gonna start talking to you boldly like y’all do 🙂
This topic is so complicated. But I really do think it’s a Kpop problem. The marketing and priorities are way off. And the industry is so different compared to 2nd gen and 1st gen. I think it would be best if English speakers (the fans) could act more appropriate. I argued with someone on Tumblr about this topic, and they didn’t want to hear any of it. I think it’s a double edged sword, and there’s entitlement from all fans. Just some are up to 11. If companies weren’t so wishy washy and concerned about money, everyone would probably have a clearer picture of who K-pop’s audience actually is. Ugh. I think it would be best if Kpop reaches a plateau, and it goes back to a certain level of “obscurity” as it once was. The expectations are muddled because of the unclear marketing and promotion. I feel bad for the celebs. And I just think there needs to be more focus on PR and intercultural communication. Sadly, that can only happen in a perfect world.
One, someone who says something like hurry up b word in that case should be shamed by everyone around them and then removed by security. Where are all the cancel culture mafia to take care of that. Secondly, I don't really understand how fans and idols who don't speak the same language can be asked questions by each other at least directly, so idk how we know it would be different. ofc there is auto-translate but that is a heavy limitation against nuance itself. If some1 like alexa born n raised in us, I guess she would seem more relatable? idk what kinda questions alexa was talking about, i'm sure she's asked messy stuff The fan with Mark might need to be looked at, i'm afraid they might be ill. i hope mark was just internally eyerolling and blowing it off. he didn't have a poker face he was like 'r u kidding?!?' idk how a fan gets to talk to an idol 5 times? But i mean take the hint ffs they aren't "in to you" like that fan. Where is parental supervision? It's in the bin that's where it is. Finally, whomever broke into the idol's room needs to cool off behind bars for a while. The idols may not know about stand your ground perhaps they should learn it. Don't take me wrong; I don't endorse ---ing first asking questions later and that kinda mentality myself, but maybe sm or others should do a public update meeting to let foreign fans know they heard it's a thing.
@@Yoonmisbaby849 By saying "English-speaking" it implicitly means people who are fluent in English like Giselle, Somi, Bangchan, Lily, etc. Which is the case for every idol in the video except them. Not idols who can understand English and barely formulate sentences
I think at some point we can’t keep on looking at the fans actions and have to look at the Kpop industry as a whole and see how the standards and things put in place makes the fans feel entitled to do these things. This is not to say these people are right but when people make these type of videos I feel like it is one sided because truthfully Kpop strives off of a lot of these behaviors.
A lot of this stems from the arrogance of Western culture in general. Many Eastern cultures lean heavily on humility, respect and subservience. We're raised to be hyper conscious of our self portrayal and how we're seen by our community. It's the Western people's lack of and refusal to understand making it a direct culture clash towards general Eastern practices. Much like how Eastern cultured people who enter the Western world adapt and comply to the culture and practices, it would help if the opposite happened as well which it clearly hasn't. And as K-Pop gets bigger and bigger, this is only going to get worse and worse. Remember, as much as K-pop is "global", it's still Korean and as such, you should act accordingly towards them and their culture.
The way you're pretty much judging an entire group of people rubs me the wrong way because not every person from the West is the same. All of the countries in the West are like a melting pot of different cultures with different backgrounds and different people. We don't all just share one culture and we don't think the same, so I wouldn't say that. I think that at the end of the day, it all comes down to entitlement and being delusional, not viewing idols as human beings.
Ahh yes the west next time an idol decides to end themselves make sure you in the east also blame the west. I mean lets not talk about fans in the east walking up stage and grabbing idols don't talk about how east fans love one idol and then act like it's ok to hate another idol from the same group yeah real mature.
The kcon one got me PISSSEDD cause who tf are you?!?!?!?!? to shout that to someone who DOESN'T EVEN KNOW YOU?! some fans are getting TOO COMFORATABLE these days and its so annoying! And yes i do agree that idols should be allowed to call out fans for their nasty actions.
IKR me too omg! That one's such a whole example of entitlement, like why do you feel the need to shout out of the crowd?🧐
These kpoppies are too parasocial, like what genuinely goes on in these people's minds?? These idols are not your besties, you may be a fan, but you're still a stranger. Especially when they're interacting with international fans. It's like they forget all types of respect and manners ,but at the same time will go on Twitter talking about how rude certain fans are, like brother that's you!!!
Right. Theyre not your friends so that person needs to know boundaries and stop getting comfortable woth everyone else. One day theyll get called out by someone in their life about this. Also, its clear they havent been humbled in their life and everyone let that person act like that their whole life. This is why they still act like this and its now affecting an idol. Anyways, the point is that person needs to be humble and told to stfu. Cause not everyone is your friend.
@@user-mt1th4wu8x I'm hoping for the day idols just snap and call out their fans i just want them to have thier own voice and talk their shit !!!!
something that bothered me for a long time is also the entitlement during lives, when idols are talking in Korean. the amount of comments I saw requesting them to "stop speaking Korean, talk in english" is ridiculous. and sometimes the comments are so rude, I don't get how someone would think that in any scenario this is ok. nobody is entitled to idols speaking english, even if they are able to.
I know asking idols to speak English can be seen as rude, but I get why people do it. They just want to be included in the conversation and the lives don't have subtitles. Generally I don't watch the lives when I know an idol wont speak English unless it's something special like a birthday live. Otherwise I wait for clips with subs or for other fans to post translations.
@@angiee1603 yeah you’re right, I didn’t mean the comments where fans asked if the idol could talk in english, I meant the ones literally demanding it and getting upset if the idol didn’t do it immediately… and yes, it’s sometimes frustrating not knowing what’s going on, but in this case, as you said we have the option to watch it wish subs later 😊 thankfully there are lovely souls like hongjoongis pinky, who did such a great job with the translation 🥰🥰
@@angiee1603well then that’s being chronically online. Go do smth else while you wait for the subs. Aly nicely or that’s it leave if you don’t get watch you want or just enjoy body language
@@angiee1603does the intention behind why they're asking even matter? It's still rude and reeks of entitlement , esp since they're consuming Korean media. They should know that the idols are obv gonna speak kr and shouldn't let their need to feel included in the conversation cause them to act disrespectfully
@nnuu7618 I think intentions matter. I don't think it's wrong for international fans to want to be close to their idols. These live streams give fans the opportunity to connect to idols in ways they normally can't. For that to be just another thing we can't have on top of all the other things international fans don't get is frustrating. Getting fan subs after the live is over is not the same as being a part of the live conversation. Also empathy is important too. We should attempt to understand others before we pass judgment and be hateful towards them.
Basically just chronically online, socially awkward people being compelled by their overwelming need to interact with their idols and the results are just as you expect. At least when it comes to non english speaking idols, theres a level of disconnect that prevents this.
Yeah this is basically the issue lol. They spend too much time on Stan Twitter and forget to change their tone and behavior to match normal people. A lot of the things they say would be weird to say even to an american artist, it's not just about the language or culture of the country, just that it's fucking weird to talk like that to strangers; In general i find that people are much worse when it comes to parasocial behaviors and crossing boudaries with celebrities nowadays. There were always crazies in fandoms but social media normalizes this attitude a lot more, and even turn it into fun challenges or ways to gain clout. The many tiktoks about idiots being wildly inappropriate at concerts for clout and attention are another example of people just being so chronically online and obsessed with online clout that they forget how to act.
@@KookiesNollywhenever I see something crazy on Stan Twitter I always tell them “now tell this to a real person in real life, how would they react/how does it sound”. I saw people getting mad that people brought other light sticks to an AESPA concert while AESPA themselves made a game out of it 😅
I had second-hand embarrasament watching these videos of mark fan calls. Like,do people really think the idols are some kind of toy? They are human being,they are not your toy and they will never be your husband/wife or your best friend.
@@SonderDAzeXTBH, parasocial marketing started with J-Pop and the Koreans just copied it.
they are incredibly disturbing to watch. it's even worse when you put it into perspective by realising that this kind of harassment would not be tolerated towards most workers by law, but flies under the radar because kpop idols are exploited to absolutely no end.
@@erinlee5936Lee soo man admitted himself his ideas from American and Japanesd groups. Kpop just copied and pasted it and tried to act like it was new.
most kpop fans have issues with socialising in person, they have no idea how to socialise in person im not surprised they dont know how to speak to idols who are strangers
I think there is also a deep resentment towards idols being rich. And so what? They earned the money. But fans believe that they are the ones paying their salary. Which isn’t exactly accurate. Sure, fans are important. But to say if weren’t for the fans this person wouldn’t be famous. And this logic makes zero sense to me. Because what it gives me is the impression that the idol didn’t do any work of their own. The fame was just handed to them by us.
Im so glad we’re starting to see how toxic and problematic western audiences are towards these idols cause we always sweep it under the rug or blame everything toxic on Korean netizens.
Fancalls can be some of the best interactions or worst interactions between fans and idols. I saw a fancall once of this girl complimenting soobin, and it was so sweet, and he even teared up it was just so wholesome. And another where this other person talked to Seonghwa abt star wars. We need more positive memorable fancalls and not the weird, uncomfortable ones like the vernon or felix fancalls. I really think idols should be able to skip calls or something because 2 minutes in an uncomfortable situation must be miserable. Also, i think there was this one person who got multiple calls with san in one session like they just kept appearing again and again if i remember correctly.
!!!! And what I can say, some mutuals I have on TikTok have had multiple fancalls with idols and the idols remember them because they’re nice or normal or fun and the idol likes them. If you’re on a fancall telling mark you were mad that he hugged or looked at another fan Im sure ANYBODY would try to erase that person from their mind
Exactly we have lots of English speaking K-Pop idols that come from or grew up in various countries but instead of being appreciated all of the non English speaking idols are told to speak English and the ones that are, are told not to. Smh 🤦♀️
Exactly, it's just crazy!
totally agree with this. this reminds me of aespa's newest song 'better things' being purely in english, or like twice's 'the feels' being purely in english, everyone sings praises bc they're korean singing in english, but on the other hand we have perfect english speaking idols like jessi or even black swan (that sings in korean) and they're totally underappreciated... so odd
@@ShiroxYume exactly
@@ShiroxYume well Giselle is Aespa’s English speaker technically
Oh,Yes! XD i noticed the english speakers if in a group of koreans get okay reception cos of the group as a whole, compared to soloists or pure foreigners type (e.g. Tiffany from SNSD got a lot of remarks on her "good pronunciation" when she's native english speaking to begin with)@@gwenmloveskpopandmore
That fan really thinks Mark is their boyfriend, like how delusional you have to be💀
Honestly at some point and time we’ll have a generation where many former idols, current idols, And non idol parents aren’t letting their kids becoming K-Pop Idols to protect them, so competition won’t be as bad and only 19-20 new groups would debut
Omg I've never thought about this before! there actually could be some genuine long term knock on effects
@@dearyoongi yeah it’s because of many idols have regrets wasting their youths and stuff like that
They'll end up replacing them with AI-generated subscription-payment idols that can cater to fans' every whim.
There are already "virtual girlfriend/boyfriend" apps out there so it's not a big conceptual leap, but the potential impact on the dodgier end of the fan spectrum of having that level of interaction and control is terrifying.
I'd actually like that. Maybe some laws would be put in place to actually regulate the companies in that industry
unfortunately, teens have and will always wanna be kpop idols, especially since kpop is becoming more and more big.
even if ex idols kids dont become idols themselves, other kids from normal non celeb families will still have a fairytale vision about idol life and will wanna be idols. So i dont think competition will go down anytime soon,,,
Wait, your telling me that in the Mark Lee fancall, the "fan" is mad at him for hugging other girls?! 😳😳😳😳 im just saying if I was an idol and a "fan" of mine was upset that i was hugging other fans, I would've simply say "Im sorry you feel that way but you have to understand not everyone dosent have the same opportunities as you" and i cant be the only one who is upset seeing the same people on these fan video calls. SMH
and the fact they've definitely done more than 2 or 3 times speaking to him.... I can't even get the chance to greet my fave and just say i support them, because it's all on the number of albums you order to try and get in and I have no energy or money to try so hard anymore...
@MikuHatsune159 I totally understand, and I still don't understand that "fan" who is mad that mark forget them 5 times like ARE YOU FOR REAL?! I dont understand the "fan" viewpoint
@@SonderDAzeX it’s still no excuse and most people are old enough to understand that
tbh I think a lot of entitlement fans behavior comes from the fact that they act as if they know the idol personally/are friends with them. I have seen so many video's where fans really act like they are besties with their idols.this delusional behaviour is just crazy.
nowadays some people get a bit TOO comfortable with their idols and they don't seem to realize how uncomfortable, scary or dangerous it is for the idols, because they are too caught up in their own little fantasies.
Ikr the level of delulu 😭 is it that hard to be respectful?
@@SonderDAzeXyeah totally agree. The kpop industry needs to take it more seriously fr.
@@twilightdreamfr! I cringe so hard at their behaviour sometimes
yeah but the management and companies of these idols are also guilty in encouraging this kind of delusional behavior. some male groups will call their fans their girlfriends and tell them to not cheat on them with other men. even these constant fan meetings, fancalls,fan signs, etc. fuel the delusion. western artists rarely meet and talk with their fans this often. at most you can pay for a more expensive ticket to meet them for a few minutes before the show and take a picture but westerns artists don’t have whole fansign tours anymore or do one on one calls with fans
also the way english speaking idols are hold to higher standards because according to kpop stans they are the "open minded ones" in the industry. or the way people call them cringe when they say something they don't like but if they said it in korean no one would bat an eye. I think kpop stans are so absorbed into "korean culture/mindset" that they think bashing english speaking idols automatically makes them smarter and somehow feel validated by korean people.
Also In western interviews some hosts are being rude and racist by saying ur English is so good especially if they come from an English speaking country. Some examples include SKZ Felix, Mark ofc, and SNSD Tiffany. Reminder not all K-Pop Idols only speak Korean or only come from Korea although that wasn’t always the case.
It's blatant racism. They act as if there isn't English speaking people who are Asian in their country (which they obviously know there is). Plus they or the show's team should have done research on the artist (so that the host doesn't look like an idiot) and we all know that to get the basic info about idols, it just takes a simple Google search... usually everything is on Wikipedia too.
Those Ellen interviews took years off my lifespan
Omg yess this, it makes me cringe so bad!! Johnny getting complimented for his English and saying 'I'm from Chicago' is like engrained in my brain 😭 and when they do this to Aussie idols, like do you not hear the accent?!
Yess this!! It's disrespectful not to give your guests the common courtesy of a quick search up in advance, like surely a that would make preparing questions for them even easier too (and would make sure they're actually appropriate)
Omg the Eric Nam one is legendary
I believe I wasn't just Fatou that has seen the nair video unfortunately. I have seen other lives of other Kpop idols where fans kept asking to watch the video ( I think jungkook is 1 of them, not sure tho) honestly I find it so disgusting to do that to them. ( honestly these days so many 'fans' ask their idols to watch really weird things and it's just so disrespectful and immature)
the first time I heard about the hair video was in TikTok. someone made a video about how shocking it is or something so that people would watch it. eventually it became a trend where people make videos where they show the video to someone and record their reaction and those toxic Kpop stans decided to go with this trend.
it is absolutely disgusting that people think it is okay or normal to show someone a private part without them knowing what they will be seeing. even these 'fans' just laugh at the idols reaction and think its just okay to do that because its a TikTok trend. like please don't do this, it can be traumatizing to some people and it is very uncomfortable for them. have some respect.
(I also feel like it's mostly the younger Kpop fans(like teens) or new Kpop stans that behave like this. from what I have seen at least.)
I think Jake (Enhypen) saw it too.
@@SonderDAzeX yeah true. Its horrible
Honestly bm would be down to watch lmao
Why would people want other people watch that thing..... like when I know what's that video is, I literally never and ever try to touch that video, so why some people want others watch that :")) like not everybody comfortable with that kind of stuff right
NCT have some of the worse saesangs I have seen. And its always the same ones for over a number of years!! The fact that SM is just now taking legal action against them is wild to me. There is definitely someone working on the staffing or on the inside of SM distributing there personal information. I also think the false perceptions NCTzens have of the boys also contributes to it. NCTzens treat the boys like hot garbage and make them seem like they are these unruly frat boys but we don't know them!! They aren't your befriends or boyfriends so why treat them and talk to them as such?
Quite interesting Topic to discuss about how certain fans and media ask very inappropriate questions towards the artists either on social media or in a interview. These so called fans don’t have any respect the artists who unfortunately have a sick and twisted entitlement towards the Idols again it’s another example of a Patasocial mindset
Thank you so much! You're right, unfortunately these parasocial relationships that some kpop fans have with idols can get so extreme 🤦♀️
ahhh i was cringing so much watching the mark fansign. How he did just laugh in their face and end the call i dont know. Also what an intresting video idea. i have never noticed this (maybe because i rarely go on stan twitter) but thank you for yet another amazing youtube video.
Thank you so much!💖 I reacted the exact same the first time I saw those Mark fansigns 🙈 he handles them so well, but they are...a lot!
Mark is better than me cause I would've shut that shit down immediately in fear of cursing her out and getting the management up my ass. The deluluness... the audicity... ppffffff
actually really reminds me of whenever i had to be reasonable and friendly with customers at my last job when they were acting super off putting and weird, and i mean, that checks out, since this is part of his job. i hope he can shit talk about these calls with his manager and fellow members lol
Im glad someone finally talked about this. International fans are always bragging about how we're so much better than Korean fans and always blaming them for being toxic and not treating idols like the humans they are, but I-fans are literally no better than toxic Knetz. Theyre even worse than they are sometimes, tbh like y'all are well aware or should be aware by now of how different Korean culture is from their own, so what makes you think you can talk or treat idols any way you want, regardless of if they were raised in a English-speaking country or not? It only goes to show how these people are and how a lot of them really dont view idols as human like they claim and brag about.
Also wanted to add that Mark's fancall incident is the reason why I think a fan should only be allowed to meet their faves once if they get picked and if the person gets on the fancall with their faves and tries to treat them like how she treated Mark, then the idol in question should be allowed to hang up the call and that person should get permanently banned from talking to the specific group ever again.
I feel so bad for Fatou. I don’t listen to much Black Swan, at least not yet, but she deserves better. That was unbelievable.
Stan Oli London
This is a very unique original topic, ily
Thank you so much! Ily2💖
That fancall with Mark was so dramatic, why would he remember you? You are only a fan, not a friend, not a coworker, not family, they have no reason to know you
I’m glad alexa spoke out on this situation, she looked fed up and I honestly understand her.
I knew fans are delusional but THIS delusional 🙄🤦♀ If I was Mark and saw this same girl that pretty much insulted me I would hang up on the call and tell the manager to block this person from ever entering and give another fan a chance. Like how ungrateful do you have to be? These idols see so many fans...it highly unlikely they remember unless they have a smaller fanbase and then still, like WTH 😮💨
i have noticed fans treat English speaking idols like they are there bros and Korean speaking idols like royalty you know damn well fans wont talk to BM of KARD and Seongwha from ATEEZ the same
Idols always seem to have fan managers watching their online content; those people need to spend a bit less time policing spoilers and accidental swears and a lot more time policing dodgy supposed "fans". The idols themselves too need to be empowered to permanently block anyone who is that disrespectful or possessive or invasive, and frankly some of those people probably need professional help. Unfortunately people like this will be unavoidable, so idols should also receive training and support in dealing with them. That need was really apparent with Mark Lee - you could see he was trying to get the fan back on side, which was probably what he was told and trained to do to avoid any career-ending "Idol was mean to fan during fansign" headlines, instead of being able to just say she was being unreasonable and unfair and just end the call.
@@SonderDAzeX I wouldn't say "ban" the fan gifts...but I would definitely have people search through them and immediately remove anything that might cause harm to them physically or emotionally. Even in prisons, you have someone who will search through gifts to find anything bad. I am sure that idols do appreciate their fan gifts as long as they are appropriate and not meant to cause any harm.
I think this happens because of two (well three) things.
1. Idealisation of Korea and by extent Korean idols. Inferiority complex surrounding their home country (which speaks English).
2. Parasocial relationships fuelled by speaking the same language.
The idealisation of Korea has a lot to do with them not living in Korea and likely consuming copious amounts of content pushed to them by the youtube algorithm that glorifies or portrays Korea in a favourable manner. This pipeline leads to no negative content being shown to them. By comparison to this utopia they are advertised, their home country seems a lot worse->their inferiority complex surrounding their home nation.
In comparison to other idols, the shared language and lack of barrier leads to them being more relatable. Fans then find them more easily approachable (they don’t have to think abt their messages and use translators to communicate) this leads to the idol being treated like a “member of the gang” wherein fans act like they have a preexisting personal relationship and feel like they can joke around with the idol insultingly with it being perceived as just a well meant joke.
Edit:
Afterthought; this is also why they infantilise Korean idols so much. Dk what’s worse, to be trapped in a parasocial echo chamber, or to be incessantly infantilised by people younger than you.
Apologies for the lengthy dive into this.
Seems like a huge stretch an I'm not seeing the correlation- but there is truth to this "utopia" image of Korea- America for example is incredibly dangerous, divided and scary. Simply looking at the crime statistics will tell you why americans want an escape from American pop culture which is objectively worse than Korean pop culture (drugs, violence, inappropriate, crude and vile lyrics/concepts) Americans want an escape, and they find it in K-media- but that doesn't automatically make it somehow wrong or unfounded- it has basis in reality- the cultural difference is also a huge factor.
If you've ever been to Korea you'd KNOW Korean people (due to our polar opposite cultures) act differently than Americans. They're a lot more... Put together than Americans and by extension more respectable. They carry themselves in a uniquely "korean" way, and people find that fascinating and are interested by it- the same way Koreans may think the same way about Americans- we are naturally curious of eachother and notice the stark difference in behavior between the two of us and thus will consume more media from that place. You aren't really exposing anything unhealthy and "fantastical" about people that like Korean media because of how they carry themselves, it's the most natural thing in the world- we literally couldn't be farther apart in terms of geography or culture, not everybody acts like Americans you know? Different people are different. People tend to not like American Korean idols because they AREN'T Korean, they just masquerade and try to fit in, but they aren't really koreans and can only really see the Korean society from the outside looking in and thus will act and behave like an American/Australian (or whatever) and that's typically a turnoff. American celebrities have this stigma about them (you know what I'm talking about) and not wanting to invest out time/emotions into them is form of self defence, western culture tend to produce very dysfunctional and morally corrupt famous people, it's a strong stigma that Koreans- for the most part avoid. Because they are different.
Even when a Korean is fluent in english (not a Korean-amercian, a real Korean) they use the langauge differently, in a way that is uniquely Korean- unless they code switch to "La Valley Girl" accent to earn the "true fluency" card. The Korean and English language also function completely differently. Koreans have terms and mannerisms that add an extra layer to normal conversations amongst people that can't be translated into English- so something is lost there as well.
As an old king once said (forgot his name) "I speak to the lord in spanish, to my quire in french and to my comrades in english" different languages carry different feelings to them and inspire different conversational routes that make them unique. Like how "aegyo" is cute to Koreans in Korean, but totally embarrassing when translated to english because our languages aren't compatible.
Inferiority complex for English speaking countries I.e. Canada, U.S., and the UK whose cultural influences Korea works above and beyond to attempt to emulate ???😊
4:29 literally most of idols lie about remembering you, a great example is a fancall of Joshua, where a fan asked him "do you remember me?" and he answered "yes" but it was actually their first time meeting
It kills me how often I see international fans hating on k-fans and saying that they "don't deserve all the content they get" but when THEY get opportunities to interact with idols without a language barrier- they act like this. Like fan culture is different everywhere but no matter what you should disrespect and make uncomfortable someone you support. We DONT know idols personally, and being an idol is their job- it's fine to be friendly but there's a clear line not to cross.
Poor Fatou
They are a couple more instances like skz Felix when a fan ask him if Felix wants to eat her for dessert or another one when a fan asks kards B.M when he lost his V-card people need to know boundaries
This behavior really pisses me off. It’s one of the reasons why Bang Chan does not do Chan’s room anymore. 😞
What is with the sense of entitlement? I swear its like it's getting worse.
I was amazed when I had a celebrity remember me years later when I met them a 2nd time. For context, it was a convention that I went to almost yearly and though he used to be a guest periodically, I didn't consistently go to his signings. The first time I only met him randomly in the venue because he noticed I was wearing merch from a show he hosted, and so I got a chance photo with him. The second time was a signing at the event and he vaguely recognised me as a fan he'd met before.
In regards to idols speaking English on lives... I used to watch one of my fave group's live show weekly. None of the members are significantly fluent in English but they'd introduce the show in multiple languages including English. I made sure to send a message praising their English skills (which were good, not just empty praise). They didn't need to bother with English, the whole show was in Korean but they made the decision to introduce it and even read some English comments. And I was glad they managed to read it, so that they knew their efforts were appreciated.
It does seem to be getting worse, you're right!
It's so amazing that a celebrity you met recognised you after years of meeting them only once 😱 I love that!
(And thank you so much for helping make artists who are making the effort to communicate with us in English feel appreciated!💖)
My husband and I had a similar experience with a celebrity we met for the first time ever. She was sure she had seen us in New York together but the thing is...we don't live in New York, nor had we ever been there in our lifetimes. Both of us were born and bred in the Midwest. :) That's when we knew doppelgangers were for real. :) She was super nice though.
@@dearyoongi IKR, its one of the reasons I don't "participate" in fandoms any more. There's less community.
Yeah, it was really shocking but awesome. I'm glad that the majority of my experiences meeting celebrities have ranged from good to great (though there has been the odd uncomfortable situation or the "maybe they're having a bad day" moment).
Of course! As someone with anxiety, I see the anxiety when some non-English speaking idols try to communicate in English. This is why I also try my best to communicate in Korean or Japanese (as much as I can) when commenting on livestreams.
@@truetigress8401 Woah!!! That's a really weird/cool experience!
I honestly think company's should stop doing the fan calls, and maybe do in person meets less too.
Ppl don’t appreciate English speaking Idols but whenever an idol doesn’t speak English they keep asking ,,speak English pls“ It annoys me sm
If you want idols to remember you then you should do something outstanding nice for them.
Like that girl dancing "Mania" in a horse costume for SKZ Han. I'm pretty sure he will never forget her and love her forever.
Oh I love if we could reach a point where idols can call out rude people and "fans". If there was anyone these people would listen to, it'd be the "object of their fantasies" and people they worship
I’ve been saying this sense of entitlement from western fans started with 3rd gen. 2nd gen we were just thankful for what we got lol which was barely anything. We were lucky if they even came to the states. The idols that spoke English never spoke English ever. You will only hear speak English in a one off video on tumblr when they were with their friends and you had to dig to find it. You had to wait for fans to translate which could take weeks to months. So we had no choice to be grateful for what we got.
But these new fans are something else.
Legit… like 2nd gen fans were just happy when they greeted in English back in the day
@@babychicky14 right!!! We were thankful for crumbs 😂
@@luckyxxxxk I don’t like to point to social media. But it definitively did a hand in creating an illusion that you can be close to a celebrity. I personally never understood that mentality. I respect people’s privacy. It doesn’t matter if they are richer or poorer than me. I think now people sadly had forgot how to treat other people. Let’s hope the future generations will be better.
Just the audacity of certain "fans" upsets me. It's hard enough being an idol, let alone having people act all weird if they happen to be an English speaker. I remember that video of Sullyoon from NMIXX being hit on at a US fan meeting that gave me so much second hand embarassment. Props for doing this video to shed some light on the mistreatment English-speaking idols do continuously get.
The sullyoon just sounds like a reach like to my knowledge he didn’t say anything inappropriate to her
I still don't understand these fancalls. these people post shit like that themselves, right?
I remember seeing so many video's of Vernon from Seventeen with a cringe and disrespectful fans and like he says can you pleas stop but they keep going till the end of the call, i felt so sad for him
So you see that western fans aren't that different from sasaengs in the end. We spent time bashing those sasaengs, when we behave just like them the moment they come to our countries or when they speak our language.
Toxic people are everywhere.
Stalkers are everywhere as well.
So..what's the point? We shouldn't have spent time bashing sasaengs? (Or we shouldn't behave like sasaengs bash sasaeng behaviour irrespective of country and language? )
I feel like we need to discuss the differences between non-English native speakers and those who can. Artists who can speak English are treated like this and idols who can't are disrespected. For example, Jisoo from Blackpink has had a fan in I'm gonna say goth clothes in one of the Berlin shows and because Jisoo did not jump up and down or something so accused her of being a conservative.
Oh and if you end up doing a follow up to this video you could include the crazy inappropriate flirting felix from stray kids had to deal with, most likely because he spoke english and could understand it. It was a virtual fan sign, the girl asked if they were skipping the meal and she was his dessert or something like that. He just laughed awkwardly and looked very uncomfortable. Hyunjin also had one where someone asked him to call them "mom".
The reason why it doesn’t happen to non English speaking idols isn’t just because of ack of entitlement but mainly because they think that they have a similar or same kind of humour with English speakers ones. Imagining that they use, prefer and feel more liberated on the English side of social media, specifically Stan Twitter and Tiktok.
About every idol who has spent at least 2 years in an English country is considered as more mature, secretly dirty minded and definitely open minded than others.
It all comes down to the prejudice that East Asians are more “closed” (puritan/conservative etc, keep in mind that conservative is different to everyone depending on their origins and nationality). As well as the prejudice that westerners are more party goers etc.
Honestly, it’s true to some social extent overall. Even as someone from a francophone African country, we view westerners and anglophone Africans as more wild than us overall (not universal, in general). However, we would say that on the simple day to day life we might be wilder, but we don’t use substances or do the same kind of parties and promote secs and re so comfortable like Stan Twitter. These things are there and are done but not like westerners (Europeans and Americans).
Also because of the idols’ reactions to English memes, them finding all that cool, the viral “American air” videos of the same exact idols at concerts in SK and USA just one week later, sometimes twerking and saying some bad words too; it all gives the impression that they feel more “liberated” outside of East Asian countries. The fans think that they aren’t as “close minded” as what they would think the average East Asian is.
They must understand that even if they indeed feel more liberated overseas, it doesn’t mean that they have the Stan Twitter humour and laugh off at whatever. This kind of humour and comfort is to be avoided even with western celebrities.
It’s not JUST parasocial relationship with idols. It’s not knowing how to behave outside of social media. Some fans might just want to make the idols laugh but they are inappropriately too comfortable with that. On the internet, they could get respectfully put at their place with understanding of a possible misunderstanding of humour from the receiver, but in real life it’s very awkward and uncomfortable for that same receiver. It’s easy to me to say “Please, understand that I am not like that, talk with me differently” but in real life I would first open my eyes wide for 5 seconds processing what the person said/asked and with what audacity.
Someone commented it in the comment section too.
The Mark case, omg ? lol. Girl, it would be a miracle if an idol remembers you… They met strangers and talk with tons of people every day. For an interaction of seconds you’re really forgettable in the next minute, just shut up.
These idols are mostly from english speaking countries where the cultures and values are not as strict as Asian countries. Fans think these idols are friendly so they arbitrarily say and do things to them, thinking they won't take it seriously because "they're chill, laid back and fun", to the point that they fail to realize that the things they say and do to these idols are inappropriate and crossing the line
Eeew feeling the secondhand embarrassment from this "fan" saying such nonsense to Mark.... he really did handle this person well
about the fansign thing. I'd like to get that "fan" to go speed dating. maybe they'll understand
Learning English is optional. Sure it makes communication easier but you don't have to know english to be educated or just a decent person. The obsession with idols speaking English is so weird like it should just be seen as an additional skill not something magnificent. The way stan throw shade to non speaking english idols that they should learn from others is so terrible.
Thank you 🙏🏿, I am way passed these overly possessive entitled stupid people thinking they own idols.
Idols need more room to speak up and speak out against these sick people.
Companies need to allow fans right to defend themselves.
I hope more companies take legal actions against these sick people.
That one with the stalker in idol hotel room is beyond sick.
I hope that person gets prosecuted and punish.
Enough is enough
I have to watch those mark fancalls on mute because they are tooo embarrassing 💀
Agree, agree, agree.And people who treat idols like this are not fans.
I 100% agree that westerners/english speakers can act entitled and ask extremely inappropriate questions from idols but to me some of this is learned behavior from within the kpop community of watching how koreans interact with idols. I seriously cannot believe the sense of entitlement kfans have over idols personal lives, specifically romantic relationships. heaven forbid you date someone or even worse want to get married and start a family, look at what happened to Chen. if that sort of irrational precedent for that type of behavior hadn’t already been set I wonder if westerners would be so comfortable speaking so…freely with english speaking idols? not trying to start any sort of big debate or argument here, just something I feel like maybe wasn’t considered so please do not get mad at me if you disagree 👉👈
These examples give me second hand embarrassment the saesang was one scared me yes it's hard to ignore seeing such intitled fans
I feel like english speaking fans are cut up into two categories - Americans and every other person. Americans have this culture and humour that crosses boundaries sometimes (this is coming from an australian who has americans in my family) and Skorea is a conservative country and crossing their boundaries is easier to do. Americans are too quick to treat everyone else as an American. The idols aren't your friends and don't know you so calling them insults as a joke or joking around like you know them is so weird.
Not saying other english speaking countries don't do this to idols but american fans who use american culture with other countries have to realise that every other country has their own culture and what they see as appropriate
what u mean, australians will cut a b. their humor is the best but they are savage. i'm not about to say let's get in a fight about it, but what i've seen is my aussies can hold their own and then some. ♡
australians only use australian humour with other australians that they are relatively close with but americans seem to think everyone around the world has american humour@@Lei3195i
It's easy to blame so called "Americans" and that's part of why this situation perpetuates. If you listen to the accents, quite a few aren't even close to American. Yet their actions are covered up as they're blamed on the fans of one nationality and excuses the collective kpop fan base from the accountability that is desperately needed.
Also, there are also behaviors/humor/etc from that people might think aren't so direct to them but still come off as rude, aggressive, etc to other cultures. Even if you aren't trying this can still be the case. This isn't limited to one nationality.
This is an interesting topic. I've never thought of it like this. For me, I think it is partly cultural. Respect is something built into the Korean language in a way that is absent from English. So English generally does sound less respectful than Korean and Americans especially are more direct than some other English speakers. Combine the nature of English as a language with fan entitlement and this is what you get. The entitlement shown in those clips isn't that different from what you get from Korean fans. What that fan said to Mark about hugging other fans ain't that different from Korean fans protesting Chen from EXO for getting married or the backlash from the rumors of BTS's V dating.
It's not exclusive to American fans.
Also, this sort of thing happens in reverse too in different contexts.
Rudeness, making people uncomfortable, not considering the feelings of others... this comes from entitlement of one individual towards another, and its always awful-- whether we're discussing celebrities, or more "mundane" situations like foreigners who stick out in heterogenious populations in other countries.
You are kind of right, I am a linguist and it’s true that the way our languages are formulated effect how our society is and/or is often a result of our society effect on it.
Our way of thinking changes and that’s why learning multiple languages makes us more versatile and empathetic than before. Polyglots understand the way of thinking of others beyond words.
It’s obvious that it’s not just the English language but stan Twitter and Tiktok humour specifically. It’s not just about having a parasocial relationship but about being chronically online. Stan Ts are known for their very informal, sometimes chatotic and sarcastic and sometimes even purposely disrespectful tones and ways. With a lot of use of AAVE.
Because it’s literally “stan…” it has the characteristic of being mainly into pop culture and social media popular influences. Kpop is one of those big social media community and so there are many kpop fans in stan T. It has spread a lot though, it’s language is used even in other topics and fandoms , it’s now simply “internet humour” so not everyone who uses a bit of it is as unhinged as stan T users.
@matrix-theoriginal.7266 That's cool that you're a linguist. I was briefly interested in linguistics some years ago although I never pursued it.
@@matrix-theoriginal.7266Thank You! Even english has changed dramatically in its usage/feelings in modern day to back in the 1920's-1940's for example. Look up some videos of "Americans" from that time period and listen to them speak- they speak the same words as people of today and the pronunciation is mostly the same but they Inspire totally different feelings. They have/had... Character in their voice, a unique color that made english seem alive in a way that seems absent today.
I don't know what it is, but modern day english is grating on my ears. Yes I understand it, but where we are culturally and in what we represent (or lack thereof nowadays) makes everything that somebody says in english sound so disingenuous. It's like our language is a window to the soul- how we speak and the language we use directly tell people a lot about ourselves. This is why I am very favorable to Koreans- whether they speak english or not because of the values most of them hold themselves to- it shows in their dialect and I can detect it and immediately respect them more.
It's difficult to put into words but I know that what I'm saying/feeling has been deep roots in psychology and even spirituality to some degree. Sorry for the almost incoherent comment- those who understand understand.
Thank you for this video! The entitlement of English speaking fans is one aspect of K-pop that I have really disliked. I'm Atiny and even though the boys are all Korean, most aren't great with English except Hongjoong, (though they're getting better all the time) because Atiny is so global there's still some really annoying fans every live with comments like "speak English" "I can't understand you lol". Like?! And the outrage Atiny had at their new platform when it didn't immediately have translations like 🤦🏻♀️ they're Korean. Translations are an extra that we should be grateful for, not just expect. Even now that we have them, they complain about the quality.
Ugh. Even when I was a stay, people would complain when Chan or Felix spoke Korean instead of English. But Chan often spoke up for himself and said he'd speak in whatever language he wanted so that was good.
Sorry for the rant haha. This is an issue that gets me fired up too 😄
My thing is this: if you don’t go treating non celebrities this way- do NOT act a fool and show your entire @$$ embarrassing yourself online when interacting with an idol. A lot of y’all new stans lack some home training smh…
I thought that one point was to constantly ask them to speak in English on a Korean livestream.
Momolands ahin had a few on her IG live going off on fools asking stupid questions..i wish you would of added that 😂
Thank you for including my favorite group Oh My Girl in your video clips. ❤👍
Ngl, I did laugh at Fatou's reaction because I never expected it!
Great video 😍
Thank you so much!🥰
It's so ridiculous that so many will be blessed with the opportunity to do a fan-call just to waste it on being gross like ??? it's such sasaeng behaviour that they'd rather be remembered negatively than just be happy by being another fan.
There's also kpop "fans" who call English-speaking idols cringy, or completely ignore them. It's most obvious to the 2nd and 3rd generation ASC hosts and Dive Studios hosts and guests, like Amber, Jamie, Kevin (Woo), Heejun, Jae (though after what he did to Jamie..... 🙅♀🤬)... I think Henry Lau also got that hate....
WHEN I HEARD THAT PERSON SAY THAT ON KCON I WAS FLABBERGASTED LIKE?? WHO DO U THINK U ARE 😭😭PLEASE SOMEONE FIND HER BC WE NEED HER BLACKLISTEDDD
What i would do for a virtual meet with any kpop idol 😭 and these people act so ungrateful with it!!!! Thats not fair 😭
those fansign calls.... save mark lee. i also never get the double-sided delulu fans who wanna be delulu, but don't have empathy for anyone else actually living the delulu dream lol. if you really wanna date him, would *you* want to be on the receiving end of nasty comments?
I’ve seen these events happening so many times, and while majority of my experiences are with idols who are still learning English, such as the Golden Child members. I met the Golden Child members and one fan got really pissed off that my phone was taken by Bomin, but also hated the fact he complimented my shirt, and she smacked my phone out of my hand after he handed the phone back, like it’s just ridiculous the way these western fan acts so entitled. I’ve seen fans pissed at other fans for getting a selfie at a concert over them, getting the vip experience over them. Like these fans are bold, if I was on a fansign, id probably just sit in awe because I get the chance to meet someone like that, like i really don’t understand how some people get so cringey and pissed and think that the idol is the problem and they aren’t the problem.
as someone who got into kpop in 2018… i miss how kpop was back then so much. i can remember when kpop twt started getting toxic, more and more seemingly every year (especially since 2020 onwards).
this video has summed up all of the frustrations i’ve felt with kpop stans recently. a lot of fans are extremely delusional, and very entitled. i also just fucking hate twitter so much, i feel like it’s a popularity contest all the time of stans who wanna get the most retweets and likes. also (certain fandoms are worse than others) but the amount of sexualized and unfiltered tweets i see about idols as well makes me really uncomfortable
The problem is that the second idol will confront the entitled fan. The entitled fan will play as a victim. And unfortunately the entitled fan will get defended by other people in social media. Because the entitled fan is one of us. By us I mean the working class. Of course their are entitled fans that are rich. But for the most part I see it coming from regular people that work in stores or other areas.
I wonder if that one girl who wore lingerie during her fancall with Han from SKZ would have done that if he only spoke Korean.
If I’m ever speaking to an idol disrespectfully it’s if we’re friends and they know I’m joking.
I would ask anyone whatever question that I was looking for an answer too. I don't even listen to Alex!! I listen to StrayKids and BlackPink.
Remember guys even if they’re English-speaking idols that came from English-speaking countries there’s still a gap in both cultures and they’re obviously not gonna start talking to you boldly like y’all do 🙂
Oooou the Yuna one is so rude, makes me sick
I could NOT have said this better!!! Omg
Do these companies have a "suggestion box" where they take ideas from the average consumer to help improve the quality of their service?
This topic is so complicated. But I really do think it’s a Kpop problem. The marketing and priorities are way off. And the industry is so different compared to 2nd gen and 1st gen. I think it would be best if English speakers (the fans) could act more appropriate. I argued with someone on Tumblr about this topic, and they didn’t want to hear any of it. I think it’s a double edged sword, and there’s entitlement from all fans. Just some are up to 11. If companies weren’t so wishy washy and concerned about money, everyone would probably have a clearer picture of who K-pop’s audience actually is. Ugh. I think it would be best if Kpop reaches a plateau, and it goes back to a certain level of “obscurity” as it once was. The expectations are muddled because of the unclear marketing and promotion. I feel bad for the celebs. And I just think there needs to be more focus on PR and intercultural communication.
Sadly, that can only happen in a perfect world.
One, someone who says something like hurry up b word in that case should be shamed by everyone around them and then removed by security. Where are all the cancel culture mafia to take care of that.
Secondly, I don't really understand how fans and idols who don't speak the same language can be asked questions by each other at least directly, so idk how we know it would be different. ofc there is auto-translate but that is a heavy limitation against nuance itself. If some1 like alexa born n raised in us, I guess she would seem more relatable? idk what kinda questions alexa was talking about, i'm sure she's asked messy stuff
The fan with Mark might need to be looked at, i'm afraid they might be ill. i hope mark was just internally eyerolling and blowing it off. he didn't have a poker face he was like 'r u kidding?!?' idk how a fan gets to talk to an idol 5 times? But i mean take the hint ffs they aren't "in to you" like that fan.
Where is parental supervision? It's in the bin that's where it is.
Finally, whomever broke into the idol's room needs to cool off behind bars for a while. The idols may not know about stand your ground perhaps they should learn it. Don't take me wrong; I don't endorse ---ing first asking questions later and that kinda mentality myself, but maybe sm or others should do a public update meeting to let foreign fans know they heard it's a thing.
I can’t believe nobody at kconla defended Yuna but laugh. So focking entitled.
They had MiSO in their intro!!!!!!!
The one with Mark is ridiculous. Oh, I talked to you three years ago for a minute. Why don’t you remember me or some such nonsense lol.
8:45 is this not SA ????
Yuna and Yeji aren't English-speaking idols tho. This is kinda out of topic
Actually their English is middle (specially Yeji) They both understand more than just basic words and can answer questions in English
@@Yoonmisbaby849 By saying "English-speaking" it implicitly means people who are fluent in English like Giselle, Somi, Bangchan, Lily, etc. Which is the case for every idol in the video except them. Not idols who can understand English and barely formulate sentences
Does this happen to idols who speak other languages?
no because us westerners don't have boundaries
I think at some point we can’t keep on looking at the fans actions and have to look at the Kpop industry as a whole and see how the standards and things put in place makes the fans feel entitled to do these things. This is not to say these people are right but when people make these type of videos I feel like it is one sided because truthfully Kpop strives off of a lot of these behaviors.
A lot of this stems from the arrogance of Western culture in general. Many Eastern cultures lean heavily on humility, respect and subservience. We're raised to be hyper conscious of our self portrayal and how we're seen by our community.
It's the Western people's lack of and refusal to understand making it a direct culture clash towards general Eastern practices. Much like how Eastern cultured people who enter the Western world adapt and comply to the culture and practices, it would help if the opposite happened as well which it clearly hasn't. And as K-Pop gets bigger and bigger, this is only going to get worse and worse. Remember, as much as K-pop is "global", it's still Korean and as such, you should act accordingly towards them and their culture.
The way you're pretty much judging an entire group of people rubs me the wrong way because not every person from the West is the same. All of the countries in the West are like a melting pot of different cultures with different backgrounds and different people. We don't all just share one culture and we don't think the same, so I wouldn't say that. I think that at the end of the day, it all comes down to entitlement and being delusional, not viewing idols as human beings.
U all overing
Ahh yes the west next time an idol decides to end themselves make sure you in the east also blame the west. I mean lets not talk about fans in the east walking up stage and grabbing idols don't talk about how east fans love one idol and then act like it's ok to hate another idol from the same group yeah real mature.
Fatou? More like Fa-tricked.
What typa questions they be asked? do u shave yo posay?