Yes it’s good to see but I also think he’s wary enough about being patronised by white people to want to swing to the anti racist side for a while which might be interesting too...
"I've never been in a group of white people telling police stories. Maybe they have them and they just don't tell them." Here ya go. 19 years old - drinking beer at a party with other underage kids. Police show up, sirens blaring, barge through the door as kids scurry off. I stand up as they come through the door, lead cop grabs me and tosses me into a bay window, breaking the window and streaming glass down over me, cutting my face. He grabs me again, pushes me onto my belly, face down, putting his boot on the back of my neck. He leaves it there, with maybe nto full weight on my neck, but a lot. It hurt badly. His partner asked him to stop, one of the local cops(it was a mix of state and local) asks him to step off me. He doesn't listen. 21 year old - get pulled over coming home from a 21st birthday celebration. They ask me where the drugs are. Iwas a pot smoker, but I didn't have anything on me and no reason to think i did. They pull me out of the car, handcuff me and set me alongside the road. Pull everything out of my car and search. It goes on for 20 minutes, they keep looking and looking an dloooking. Nothing. Dogs brought in. Nothing. They leave all of my shit sitting outside my car along the highway, get in their cars and leave. If I was black, I'd probably assume those cops were racists. Since I'm white, I just figured they were assholes.
The last two lines are it, so much. I've actually had situations where I got pulled over for no reason. I've been the passenger in those situations with a black driver as well, and EVEN I THOUGHT the first cop was just an asshole, and the 2nd was racist, even though the actual facts of both cases are the same. It's crazy.
@@Foslopac for me it was a generational thing. my grandad had stories about the police and stuff, but they always boiled down to "and then he threw my stuff out and told me to get outta here! lol" ...... Like....can we AT LEAST be adult enough to acknowledge, compared to blacks.....whites had it REALLLLLLL GOOD in this country for a little while longer....I don't know what's so hard for people to understand that in America......whites and blacks didn't really "mix" all that much outside a slavery and welfare..... Oh, and now it's all about bein an "ally", whatever the hell that means in 2020, but we still ain't got the balls to say the n-word in public....cause OTHER WHITE PEOPLE blow us up on the media.... this country is a f**kin mess, mate 🤣
Here's the deal. If you're a TSA agent and you are more suspicious of a beardy Middle Eastern man than you're of a cleanly shaven Caucasian woman, that's not because you're racist, that's just being minimally intelligent. The point is, when a cop pulls over a black person, how much of it is warranted good policing vs. actual racial bias. The distinction needs to be made, and it's difficult because only the cop knows what's in his mind; it's possibly even subconscious. If a cop is policing a crime-infested neighborhood like Oakland or Chicago or Baltimore, and he sees 2 black guys in a car at 2 in the morning, how much of that is racial bias vs. being minimally intelligent? A black guy in a shiny sport car in downtown Oakland, a black guy in a jalopy with a brand new license plate, cops should be looking for suspicious markers. Why? What the hell is their job but to stop the chem pushers and the gangbangers from turning that community to shit, as if those inner-city communities aren't already in so deep.
Anyone else?: I'm white and my uncle taught me to roll down the windows, shut off the engine and pull out the keys and to keep my hands on the wheel until the officer asks for anything. Once he does, let him know that I'm getting stuff from my glove box.
Richard Freeman Mexican here, and I kinda just assumed everyone did these sorts of things. I feel like a lot of it is just an epistemological problem inherent to existence. You know your motives, cops don’t. Injecting common knowledge into the situation is just smart.
One explanation for cabbies ignoring him less from the 90s on is their enlightened attitudes. Another is that he was getting older and thus perceived as less threatening. Thomas Sowell has an excellent article on exactly this topic, of cabbies picking up black men in New York. They are comfortable picking up old men, or women. And these attitudes exist among black cab drivers as well, who presumably aren't racist towards themselves. It's stereotype accuracy, and the cost of determining if the stereotype is true.
The 90s was also the golden age of Hip Hop and black culture became mainstream. America was less igorant, maybe why cabbies were less afraid. Also most cabbies in NYC are 1st gen immigrants from pretty racist countries so not sure if that data can b applied to the typical american
This is exactly what I was seeing. The risk of trouble is directly correlated to age, particularly in urban centers. I do not doubt race played a role but not the primary role. How does Degrasse not see that?
I'm surprised at how underprepared Neil deGrasse Tyson was for this interview. I felt like Coleman has disagreements with Tyson that he held back for the sake of being a generous interviewer, but I'm surprised that Tyson struggled with even the softball questions. I was beyond shocked when I heard Tyson not know Emmett Till's name.
@@GeorgiesGirlFPV Probably not so much because he is a physicist but because he is constantly being approached by the media to comment on something. The media ignore thousands of other physicists out there and keep asking same Neil or Kaku over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, as if the entire field consisted of two people. It's kind of telling both of them keep responding to that instead of refusing and asking that the media talk to other colleagues.
@Tyler Zacher The media are using Hollywood's "star system", they think this attracts more viewers. Few people in that position have the strength or the wisdom to resist that sort of temptation.
@Tyler Zacher I know nothing about Tyson's political views, I was only talking about science programs, typically PBS. They have a tendency to cling to the same people once they find someone who performs well before the camera. It's the same in Hollywood, it's not terribly sinister actually, a lot of it is just about saving money: a new person requires camera training from scratch, etc. That's one reason why otherwise completely unremarkable people (e.g. Steve Buscemi) keep getting hired again and again. Learns the lines quickly, shows up on time, able to repeat a take very accurately if needed, otherwise no need for 100 wasted takes, done.
Coleman is a fantastic interviewer. You bring on a guest to share their perspective on a topic you are asking questions about (in a respectful way), and have an open dialogue. Kudos!
So, NDT claims to think mathematically, except when a proposition offends his emotional sensibilities. If he thought like an economist, he'd have understood the law of diminishing returns behind Coleman's observation about the increasing difficulty of eradicating bad behavior as the numbers shrink and it would not have engendered any controversy.
I came here to make the same comment. Strange stance for a scientist to make, of all people he should know it’s near impossible to achieve what he’s advocating for. Sam Harris made this point.
I think Neil Tyson made a very good point, actually. His point was that George Floyd was not an average case of unjustified homicide by police, but an exceptionally egregious case. One shouldn't lump it together with other cases of police officers thinking in the heat of the moment that they see a gun that isn't there, etc., which are more understandable mistakes which are harder to prevent. Even though it is true that you can't get the total number of unjustified homicides by police down to zero, you might be able to get the number of such egregious cases down to a figure that is much less than 1 per year.
@@seeker.8785 I totally agree. I was a little disappointed that NDT doesn't address the point of how difficult it becomes to reduce the unlawful use of deadly force, but his response captures why I haven't been able to fully get on board with Coleman's larger position on these issues, despite agreeing with him on most of the details. His concern is that there is a disproportionate and misdirected public response to the murder of black people by police, which is either counterproductive or not productive to solving issues of police violence, given what the data tells us about how uncommon deaths by police are, and about how whites may be just as likely as blacks to die at the hands of police. Except that this reading misses the egregious nature of some of these murders, and the fact that you don't need data on how common these are in order to imagine tangible changes that might help prevent them. To the extent that law enforcement refuses to accept that its current practices allow for such cases to occur, I think the public outcry is very much justified.
Ya and he totally straw manned and gaslighted what Cole said. Of course we should care about these things, and ya ideally they shouldn't happen, but sadly these events will happen from time to time
It should be his first one on Spotify only. Spotify Joe Rogan should be the point where he'll have Coleman on to talk some sense about this stuff. It would be great for Spotify, great for Joe Rogan, and it would totally blow up Coleman's channel in a great way. And Coleman's the kind of guy that if youtube wanted to shut him up once he got more famous, he'd only make more money moving elsewhere.
I think the problem is using group identity to define individual actions. Take away group identity and see that it was an evil man doing evil things and he should be held accountable.
This is very easy to say while we continue to ignore the group's authority to not only protect the individual from prosecution, but their complicity in watching in silence as that same individual commits his crimes with impunity. I'm all for a system which persecutes only the individuals fairly, but in order for that to happen we need to actually have a system in place in which there is no hierarchy of groups to enable the injustices of one group against another.
@@rickycouture7224 well of course, and what you said is easy to say as well. Saying things is always more easy then doing things. But all of it must be said so that it can eventually be acted on. The system needs to change we agree on that and from what I see we both agree that using group identity is not the right way to go about it. Something I'm confused about is when you said " group authority" what exactly do you mean? What group are you talking about?. If you were talking about police that is more then a group it is also an organization and in an organization you will have a hierarchy. Men on top controlling the rules for the workers under them. If your saying that is the justification for blaming everyone in that organization for the actions of few I will disagree.
@@oourdumb this is rediculous. You don't like his argument, so rather than counter it you just assume he will eventually make a manifestly stupid one and you argue with that instead.
For as many times as I say to myself, “Don’t do it. Don’t read the comments,” sometimes you people give me actual hope. The comments on this are for the most part clearer-headed than Tyson.
ya'll playin right......like......you DIDN'T have, I don't know, maybe just ONE teeny tiny thought in the back a your head that Neil was yet another Token Black (R) in a series of moves by institutions publicly to appear more "friendly" with blacks??????????? plz tell me ya'll playin.....
@@Macheako gatekeepers of MSM require membership of the intersectional Borg to join their little club. We all know they are all multiple incarnations of one intersectional brain.
As a fan of Neil from the Science side of things this was hard to watch. His views on "bad cops" was so very simplistic. I wonder how he intends to weed them out in recruitment. I am shocked he seems to think some form of bigotry is the main thing that causes a cop to be bad. He seems to have very little regard for the fact that a bad outcome is more likely due to bad judgement in the moment than due to a personality flaw. Even if we only had morally pure officers, we would still have bad incidents, review boards would still be necessary.
The problem is that bad judgements happen mostly to black people...I guess it’s difficult to grasp the pain that some White people inflict on blacks...
Sadly Neil is using the language of intersectionality to address the problem. The user interface of post modernism. This is like trying to extinguish a fire with hydrazine. If you see everything through the lens of race then you get race war. We are currently on a unwavering increasing trajectory to civil conflict that will cost many lives. Obviously Neil’s critical skills don’t extend beyond physics.
4 года назад+1
xsomenoobx he’s still a beneficiary of that quota culture
@Jonathan Renaud except there is literally hundreds of years of historical precedent that show white people have an extremely negative bias towards African people. It was only one generation ago where the civil rights act was passed. What makes you think these police are just bad apples when police have historically been terrorizing black people for centuries
Neil is politically correct. Even with science, he will also tell you to your face that the gov has never lied about anything. I am shocked by your surprise.
He did say he'd stopped doing interviews at a certain point. Although Dave Rubin managed to get him. It sounded like it took a lot of persuading though, and Dave had to go to where he was.
Harry Yeah Rubin is a fucking lightweight and such a dork to boot. Poor Sowell is 90 years old but people won’t leave him alone bc he’s one of the most brilliant and articulate conservatives on the planet, let alone black conservatives. He’s like the right’s version of Noam Chomsky. The left won’t leave that dude alone and he’s probably 5 years younger than Sowell. What’s funny is that Sowell used to be a Marxist like Chomsky (though Chomsky calls himself an anarcho syndicalist it’s basically communism) but Sowell has the brains/common sense to evolve into reality but Chomsky stayed firmly up his own as as all leftists are.
I feel like Coleman kept asking questions and neil kept going off on tangents that literally had nothing to do with the question and avoided the questions to be honest whether or not purposefully. Good job tho coleman. Ur doing awesome lately. Really really
He responded to the questions and answered them, he's just bad at tying it all together into a concise statement. I found myself unsure at times of what exactly he was saying until a minute later into his response he'd make an additional point, but it still had to be inferred rather than him clearly state the connection.
I suspect that Neil avoids to go in depth with the issues is because we may misunderstand his scientific perspectives. Keep in mind that people can turn anything he says into something controversial. While there's a time to say and stand by one's word, I think he is wise not to get too deep at this time given that there's still so much raw emotions in the air.
Can't wait to see it! Coleman I know you must get a lot of flack these days, and I wanted to tell you that no matter what anyone says you are a thoughtful, careful and compassionate person. I appreciate your insights and I hope you will be acknowledged as one of the most outstanding young individuals of the 21s century.
All these conversations need to be talking about compliance. If one year nobody resisted arrest the number would drop off a cliff....maybe even 0 or at least a statistical 0. Also if nobody resisted arrest if a person is killed everyone can likely agree the cop has committed a crime. The way it is now ... I know thousands and thousands of people every year try to fight police to the death rather than being arrested, when I know that and I hear "zero" my eyes glaze over. We're not dealing with reality here.
I felt Coleman seemed intimated by this brilliant man and did not ask difficult questions. Which I would totally understand as Neil is one the best astrophysicist alive and my favorite . I love and respect you Sir. I therefore was sad to see Neil almost dismissing the statistics because of his personal experiences and give in to feelings. He also failed to condemn the obvious ugliness that is going on today. But even scientific community is so woke that even he would be cancelled if he said something positive about police at all.
@@sampark5004well, science is inherently republican. So he didn't want to kill his own guy. Think harder. Communists think from the heart and f*** up , Capitalism may feel inhumane ,but it has been the best system for wealth and power inequality Because it is based on scientific principles
I'm a white girl and I've been stopped for stupid reasons, dealt with jerk cops/nice cops, and do get tickets when I speed. Like when I was driving on my way home from college, I had to drive like 6 hours and stopped on the side of the road for like 5 minutes out of traffic because I was lost. A cop came behind me and looked into my car with a flashlight and also took my DL information! Like this kind of thing happens to every kind of person.
@@b9y Don't think they are pulled over more often, because how could a cop tell the age or sex of somebody when they are driving a car. Its not exactly easy to see that if you're a cop parked somewhere and a car speeds by or if you come up behind someone. They are arrested more often because they commit more crimes. I'd say cops treat young people a little shittier than most. When I was 18 I was breathalyzed even though I was in the backseat. Barely drunk. Got a charge and had to do an alcohol awareness course. I've been arrested for no reason before. Because my friend was belligerent and I was telling him to shut up. Both got put in jail. Cops just need better training in how to deal with intense confrontations with people. For the peoples good and their own good. Jocko Willink has good suggestions on that on his appearance with Joe rogan
@@PallahDaOracle I don't know if this is falling on deaf ears, but black and latinos are probably stopped more often in general. Please take a look at this Stanford study examining traffic stops in North Carolina. news.stanford.edu/2016/06/28/stanford-researchers-develop-new-statistical-test-shows-racial-profiling-police-traffic-stops/ Additionally AA were less likely to be stopped at night in a different study. www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1
@@PallahDaOracle To question how cops could tell the race of someone driving yet say that " cops treat young people a little shittier than most. " sounds pretty asinine. You could explicitly tell the race of someone driving in a car much faster than you could tell the age. There have been countless studies showing police bias and over policing of minorities, particularly in getting pulled over. I'm glad a commenter already provided you with a study, because the University of Michigan also produced a study on police bias when it comes to race.
Neil's family's how to survive encounters with the police lessons, are universal. They aren't race specific. That's how you're SUPPOSED to behave when police pull you over in a society full of gun toting nuts. By the way, I've been pulled over for no reason and demeaned several times in my youth. Once with a fellow University student, driving a volvo in city traffic, in the afternoon. We were made to get out of the car, sit on the curb, take our shoes and socks off, frisked, and the car was torn apart. Eventually they told us to go. No explanation. We're both whitey's:) My friend was blonde if that matters. One of many stories. I don't know why they happened, but yes, people of all shades have these stories
@@ShadowLord2396 We know they've always had quotas, and sure, that would help meet them. Still, we've all been there. My mother's been pulled over for doing 3 miles over the speed limit, to help meet a quota.
PS. I'm not saying that the cops themselves aren't some of the gun toting nuts as well. I've never been a criminal, but I've always been afraid of cops. You don't antagonize them. Shouldn't be that way, but it is. Everyone knows that.
I’ve been pulled over with loaded weapons in my back seat. Doubt Neil could have gotten away with that. My parents never told me how to interact with cops.
@@josesbox9555 You got away with that? Did you tell them you had loaded weapons in your backseat(which is illegal)? Your parents never told you how to interact with police? Huh? Where the hell are you from?
I think at 41:25 Neil misses the crux of the problem of rioting over the actions of one police officer. Neil seems to think that there should never *_ever_* be a cruel, fatal act by a police officer. The fact is, out of the thousands of police officers and the thousands of interactions with the public, some of those officers are going to go on the job angry at their wife, or intoxicated, or perhaps even suffering from the onset of undiagnosed bipolar. That's the problem with mass rioting and protest over the actions of one cop when compared to protests over biased laws or some blatantly unfair police regulations.
A few minutes later Tyson talks of heart surgeons. As though heart surgeons can't get away with crazy behavior. He's right, but crazy surgeons _are_ going to exist and they will be prosecuted or at least sued for malpractice. But the point is; they do exist and that behavior will not cause a massive riot even if it were done in the public and caught on video.
Aren't you glossing over NDT's further analogy of the airline industry having people who keep things in line? Its pretty clear from the history of cops that bad cops go unchecked, which means riots are the final outlet for people. Coleman seems to think that even with the checks riots would still happen, because BLM pushes a narrative. NDT seems to think that with checks the riots would have less energy.
@@CrazyMTGplayer There are thousands of cops and thousands of interactions with the public. If you would, tell me how to reach a point where there are _never_ any incidents of cops being too aggressive, even to where someone dies. How can that point be attained? It's not about making things better. "Better" is not good enough. "Better" is not what Tyson demands. I go on the principle that no matter what the field of human endeavor there will be people who are capable of failure. That would include policing.
@@WhtetstoneFlunky again the analogy is whether or not we can actually hold people accountable for these mistakes. Right now the answer seems to be maybe but generally no? If we can assume people will be punished maybe people won't look to rioting. People are going to fail, but those failures should lead to accountability.
NDT thinks that if we have only “good” and not obviously racist or biased cops the problem will be solved? Agree with Coleman that it’s much easier to eliminate instances like George Floyd or Tony Timpa (knee on neck). But mistakes are bound to happen. Every situation is unpredictable and Coleman is 100% right about this being a big gun country and so police are on higher alert. This is not purely a race issue. I think Coleman was softer than usual while still getting his point across. I understand, there’s something about NDT that is so likable and makes you want to be on his good side...even if you disagree.
Police killing unarmed people and defending themselves like a gang of tyrants is not an issue of one or another individual's racism. It's but one tentacle of an immense systemic rot that demands profound and uncompromising reform if not dismantlement and replacement. Of course with our nation's history and present economic state, a lengthy exposition of racism is inseparable from any discussion of crime. Nevertheless, you're right, and the fact that people on my side of the debate cannot even think through your comment's point without breaking into hysterics is another indication that history will never retch up a utopia.
Random Guy Liberal rhetoric is easy on the sidelines. Dismantle and defunding the police is a knee jerk reaction proposal to which any reasonable mind would never agree. If police needs reform, do the black community have a responsibility of their own for cultural examination too? I’m Asian and black community’s unique culture is something to which I have difficulty relating.
Random Guy respectfully can I ask what systemic rot you feel there is in the US? Do you believe GF’s death was racially motivated? a. On a personal level or b. On a systemic level and why this might be? Do you believe the training police get is adequate in restraint and in scenario training? Do they over react? If yes is this because they are full of anxiety or are they power tripping? Do you believe crime is connected to racism (causation) or do we deal with criminals differently based on their race. Or is it both? Do different racial groups commit different types of crime? If the answer is yes is this based on a critical race theory model where it can be explained due to the equity of power if your skin is white? Is poverty more a link to crime profiles rather than skin colour? Just to be clear I’m British, guns don’t come into it. We don’t have as many deaths in custody or during arrests. I believe we must accept slavery was a systemic issue. Abolition still lead to segregation still systemic. But from all of the civil rights laws and movement the systemic element becomes removed. The rot is that the belief in a victim mentality and the belief of superiority and racist tendencies is still there in some citizens background beliefs. The rot is slowly getting smaller and as each new generation is born the racism reduces and the victim/inferiority complex also reduces. Unfortunately like the Rodney king example some horrible racists are going to get into uniform. You mention reform deep rooted. How will this remove this stop despicable acts of people in uniform. The zimbado effect and the Stamford county jail experiment shows that people will power trip, people will act in complicity and will abdicate responsibility for their actions onto the uniform and system. I know there’s lots here to digest. I just wondered your thoughts on these questions I have based on your perspective.
Haven't listened yet but congrats to Coleman for catching another big fish after Steve Pinker and others. Your voice and ideas deserve a large audience and are a valuable corrective to confusion and wrong-headedness in the national conversation.
Hughes seems to be the more educated person in this conversation in regards to the subject although Tyson has more life experiences. Hughes was being more scientific.
I don’t think that’s quite accurate. To me it’s more accurate to say that Hughes has the greater command of statistical information (the data), while Tyson focuses more on the scientific process and on the (independent of race) Big Picture.
@@georgehouk4786 You're joking....Neil is totally wrapped up in the opportunity to finally be a BLACK man INSTEAD of a scientist, as he plays the race card in assuming that all these deaths can be prevented by screening out racists and neonazis and guy with tattoos or who can be heard using the N-word of the F-word in Bars - whom he expects fellow cops to Rat Out. He directly contradicts Coleman's view which is that Racial Prejudice is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain all or even most of these deaths. The guy that shot Philando Castile was not a racist. He was a scared of a Moron who perennially drove around smoking dope with a six year old child in the car, a moron who continually broke the laws and got tickets, whether for moving violations or not bothering to have insurance. A moron who was SO stoned that he failed to comprehend that he was doing exactly what the cop was SCREAMING at him NOT TO DO. IT's called INTOXICATION for a reason. That's why he had so many tickets - he kept failing to NOTICE things like traffic signs and lights...and forgetting to follow THE RULES of the road. Walter Scott, mind you, was MURDERED in cold blood, while running away. I'm willing to consider some sort of bias in that happening, but Alton Sterling deserved to be shot, as he reached for his gun after TWO cops could not restrain him sufficiently to search him. I would have shot Sterling full of plain anger for him risking my live, my partner's like, and the lives of bystanders by his refusal to comply with legal commands....without race having a damn thing to do with it. Coleman is the one being more objective here. I will admit that Neil is correct, that we need to have more intensive independent inquiries into these incidents, where the issue of Racism WOULD be ruled out in most of the cases, but not if biased community BLM members have their way.
@@socialbettors966 I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to pause for a moment and give thanks for the great contributions of the Black community to our society. Their peaceful and generous nature makes them ideal neighbors, lending testimony to their exceptional family values and parenting skills, unrivaled by any other culture. Their commitment to academic excellence enriches our schools and serves as an example to all who hope to achieve prominence as a people. Real estate values are fueled by the mix of African Americans into an area, due to their caring and respectful nature in these communities, an example of all they have achieved through their enthusiasm for self- improvement by hard work and a self-reliant can-do nature. Without their industrious and creative drive, we would be poorer as a nation. ruclips.net/video/ghRO2jvdZvo/видео.html
Hey smart science guy it does happen to everyone that drives often. I’m a white guy in Canada that drives during a work day. Very good driving record. Pulled over during work and off work. So many times in 24 years I don’t count anymore.
Same experience here. Something Neil misses is the fact that every time a white person is pulled over, they think it is because they did something wrong. Every time a black person is pulled over, they think it's racism. There is no purer demonstration of a confirmation bias. Neil or another black race baiter would say that is because racism is so prevalent. But then you have to look at actual statistics for people being pulled over, *not* anecdotes. Because all he did is prove that anecdotal evidence from the black community is skewed. I know loads of black people who do the same thing... Any little thing happens... Racism! I know black people from Canada who don't think that and they don't freak out every ten seconds about racism... Lo and behold, they seldom encounter racism... Nothing more than a confirmation bias.
During the late sixties, I was pulled over more than once for simply being a teenage girl. The cops apparently wanted to see what my girlfriends and I were up to or just wanted to flirt. In the early seventies, having a guy with long hair in my car enhanced the likelikhood of my being pulled over for no reason or a trivial excuse of a reason. By the way, my friends and I were white.
Same here. Every time the police have stopped or questioned me is because my car or my behaviour was setting off a signal that they wanted to ask about. It’s NOT racism.
I really loved this interview as I'm a big admirer of NDT but I also agree with Coleman on his assessment of the facts vs perceptions. Despite some of the criticism of NDT in the comments, I thought he actually did a fantastic job pushing back against the statistics, and he did it with just the right amount of passion without coming across as overbearing or illogical. When he said it doesn't matter how small the percentage is when the killings are so horrific, I was moved. He also threw a bit of shade when he criticized looking at things "philosophically and with logic," and that despite being a scientist he also lives in the real world. So, yeah he pulled me and I found myself nodding my head and saying, "Yeah, he has a great point." Then, I remembered this tweet of his after the El Paso shooting last year: "In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose… 500 to Medical errors 300 to the Flu 250 to Suicide 200 to Car Accidents 40 to Homicide via Handgun Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data." Of course, Neil had to pull back and apologize for this because it was a bit tone-deaf. Yet, when he says in this interview that small percentages don't matter when the killings are so horrific, he's guilty of the same thing he accused everyone else of last year. To be fair, it's quite possible that he learned from that mistake and listened to the criticisms. So, now he's bringing those lessons to this discussion. But I don't think people like Coleman should be rebuked when their emotions "respond more to data than to spectacle." In times like these ESPECIALLY, we need more logic and philosophical discourse, not less.
Yeah I liked the push back from Neil regarding the "real world" versus philosophy concept. He also seems to have genuinely understood how his take on the mass shooting was tone deaf and perfectly articulated his new understanding here. I'm impressed as usual from NDT.
@@oourdumb sir you are actually wrong If you don't factor in the emotional part of this argument. NDT learned that logic is never gonna win the masses alone because their perception is actually reality for them. That's why scientist don't have as much power as they should cause they don't understand that people are not logical, you have to be able to win them emotionally. For communities that FEAR the cops for historical reasons or whatever, every time they see one of those mistakes, their fear is reaffirmed, the conditioning is going deeper. Especially when they see no cops going to jail. So Mr Coleman points may be true and logical but if you don't show that when bad things happen you genuinely try to get to the bottom of it so it does not happen again, like the FAA does, the perception is you don't care and that feeds the paranoia even more. You can win the battle but lose the war.
@@mirrekhan1607 yes...And the data also shows the best predictors of interactions with police are predicated on family income/class *not* race. That's why the best way to help black people/neighborhoods is through education; fix the income and you fix the "racism" issue.
@@newbooksmell4163 access to better education is general the best way to fix most problems. But education is based on property taxes, and I think it is naive to say that there Isent a massive racial component in the way property taxes are instantiated in the USA as of now...given...you know... The very very recent history of redlining. Also I thinks it is very hard to separate out race from class in the USA.
@@blackmore4 well, as far as I am aware the dats indicates that black people are stopped more than the rate at which the comitt crime, and white are stopped less at the rate at which they commit crime. On a side note (and I am not claiming that this is your sentiment) but it is funny to me that people who are all about the individual being the primary unit of analysis are suddenly people who argue that black individuals being stopped more due to their group belonging. Moreover, I am not sure it's the case that it is logical (see division and composition fallacy)
I was quite disappointed by Tyson's commentary in his latest article and this interview essentially cements that disappointment with his apparent clear decision to stop thinking logically when it suits him and instead simply "think" emotionally and idealistically about these fraught issues. I know Tyson is a "big name" and quite a "get" for the show and that Hughes is just at the outset of a hopefully long and storied career, but I'd like to see him push his guests more and be more confident in asserting his own stances in a discussion.
This is just funny, he was logical to me. Why do you say he was emotional and idealistic? And furthermore what is wrong with being emotional? last l checked it is a human trait and it will come to the fore when dealing with such, as you put it 'fraught' issues. You can convey a logical point with emotion as well, or are just robots who just chew through data without any emotion.
@@themightyquyn practically all of it. Though now that I see the comments are being flooded by his braindead cockhungry acolytes I'm not going to bother wasting my time detailing further.
As a non-White he is going to follow his racial interests. If you understand race, you'll understand what causes this. Only Europeans are sick enough to not follow their racial interests: NoWhiteGuilt.org
Revival Nkomo A statement like “we need zero people with these prejudices in law enforcement” seems to come from an emotionalist perspective. It’s absolute, kind of like how Fox News would tend to get angry about lenient judges in the early 2000s, arguing for stricter minimum sentencing with emotional ploys like “what if it was your daughter?!” Yes, George Floyd is an egregious case, but some cases will be more gray.
Coleman, I seriously value your ability to listen and your sense of patience. Your ability to be "radically" empathetic while maintaining a zoomed out perspective to look at objective reality is something to be admired. Although I have found Neil deGrasse Tyson to be quite arrogant in a number of his interviews I've watched, your patience and respect towards him are honorable and it shows that you care to hear a multitude of perspectives and opinions.
I did not expect to hear the words "I don't care what the percent is" uttered by a supposedly empirical astrophysicist. Given the emotional nature of this topic (for some people), I can understand why Coleman didn't push back, but it would have been beneficial to dig deeper. Glenn Loury from Blogging Heads would make for a great interlocutor with Tyson.
@@snuffeldjuret 'should' - but in the real world emotions are always tied to most of our decision making as human, esp law making. There is a reason the field of retoric exist.
"No all black musicals anymore." Hmm, I seem to remember an exceptionally successful musical in which blacks were cast as white historical figures. Great discussion nevertheless.
Well for 1 thing who would be allowed to give critical review of something "Black" we can't even say black people committing crimes while pretending to protest is wrong. 2nd how do you think an all white "Roots" would go over?
@Rebecca Mattis I got a tan from sitting in my garden during lockdown. If I died my hair black, I could easily pass for an Indian or an Arab. Albeit in a slightly Peter Sellers kind of way. I can sing too. D'you reckon I've got a chance of being cast?
Insightful,thoughtful and respectful... It doesn’t get any better.I’ve been binge watching your episodes since I ran into them..And wondering why I have heard this earlier.. keep doing great work.
Yes, we have stories and we don’t speak of them. I’ve been pulled over so many times for seemingly such stupid reasons and then dragged along to perform a dog and pony show for the cops. I think there is definitely discrimination out there but we also know for a fact that you will find anything you’re looking for due to the way our brains are designed to find patterns we’re looking for. For that reason we must rely solely on statistics and not anecdotes when trying to identify rates of discrimination.
We should! Though something tells me people's tune will change once they realize that the data fully supports the claim that racism is very much prevalent in the criminal justice system. www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/opinions/systemic-racism-police-evidence-criminal-justice-system/
I guess it's not what he was saying. I think, but that's my opinion, that he meant that even though a single eventi may count only for 1 in a statistical analysis, the way it impacts on people oversteps that, because people won't see the beating of a man as one incident among a huge number of non problematic cases, but will see that as something unacceptable, which is obvious and natural.
You can still like him. He's just human. He has foibles and bias just as the rest of us do. He is still a great mind in the STEM world. Why stop looking up to him on that front just because of disagreement with his view in the social sciences?
Not that race couldn't have been a factor, but I believe the instances of Neil getting pulled over by the cops could have more to do with the vehicle that he was driving, than the color of his skin. I've experienced this myself with having driven an 18 year old Honda Civic during my college and high school years. I've noticed that the cops would tail me and pull me over much more often for what would turn out to be a small violation (no blinker when changing lanes, 2-5 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc.), when driving that old Honda Civic. But after leasing a new Volkswagen SUV, I haven't nearly been tailed by cops as much as I used to be. Maybe this has more to do with perceived socioeconomic status, than it does race? Since we're talking about racial bias, just for reference, I'm a white male.
@tony thomas I'm not saying that race couldn't have been a factor, I just think we're oversimplifying an issue involving multiple variables. I'd love to take a look at your data/research. Could you share your sources with us?
I’m from Jamaica also and what’s interesting to me is how the heightened perception of Police brutality become when one gets to the USA . I say this because citizens are 10 times more likely to die from law enforcers in Jamaica (according to indecom statistics ) . Which suggests to me some interesting latent phenomena is at play here . This statement is in no way denying any contribution of racism or bias to the problem .
@tony thomas Sometimes people match police descriptions because said descriptions are often very limited like a black male in a blue car or a white dude in a dark hoodie. Given the distribution of crime among races in USA, would it be possible that successful black men are stopped more often because they match those superficial descriptions more often? I'm not saying that's the only factor, but wondering how important it is.
Retir3d LEO here, @29:32 Coleman: "I agree that many people don't realize how frustrating it is to be falsely stereotyped".... As a retired police officer, I can tell you, I absolutely know how it feels to be falsely stereotyped, as I've had to listen to those stereotypes in this interview and all over the media for the past several weeks about how "I'm a racist" and an evil person because I wore a uniform and a badge, when all I ever did was serve my community with honor and respect. You know what else I know? I know what it feels like to have to wait for the line at Circle K to completely finish before being able to get in line myself to buy something, because somebody may stick a gun to the back of my head and pull the trigger for being an officer. Do you realize how often police get falsely accused of racism with false complaints filed against them? It happens constantly. I also find your statement problematic, when you say "you agree that police are more likely to rough up a black suspect," that is patently false and there is no data to support that whatsoever. In fact, scientific studies at various universities have proven the opposite to be true. I am absolutely sick and tired of the hard data being ignored in favor of this false narrative simply because it supports the emotional bias that people want to believe to be true. In fact, I went on Stefan molyneux's show with a friend of mine to talk about the truth regarding these claims, only to have RUclips deletes Stefan's channel. You can see it here www.bitchute.com/video/QpGKHFFnskoM/
You think this conversation is straight forward? racism exists in it's purest form. Majority group privilledge. In india that works for the brahmin against the darlits sure it's worse than america but every country has racism (tribalism) in group preferences. That's where we are.
@Jen not roast, but I would have liked to see Coleman challenge Neil a little more. But I don't think that would be possible with how passionate Neil gets when talking on this
Coleman you're are one of my favorite young minds of the current age. I know you were showing major respect for Mr. DeGrasse in allowing him to speak on his countless experiences. Although much of what he said was anecdotal it still was his experiences. I'm a black male in the Gen X era so I can relate to much of what Mr. DeGrasse is saying but I can also so the progress and improvements that have been made. Also I understand that numbers/stats are very important but the eye test shouldn't be taking for granted Mr. Coleman.
Why does the "philosophical mind" seem to be able to travel across topics, but the "scientific mind" seems so lost outside of it's specialty? I like NDT, but pretty unimpressed with his ability to directly engage the questions Coleman asked.
Because philosophy (the analytic sort taught here in America) is a toolset for general problem solving, whereas the scientist is a domain-specific expert. As a philosophy graduate (and from Columbia no less), Coleman is well-schooled in logical fallacies and motivated reasoning. If you've ever known or worked with actual students of analytic philosophy, they tend to go out of their way to combat their own biases and guard against sloppy thinking. They are especially wary of emotional appeals. Of course, they are not perfect but meta-cognition is a normal part of everyday life.
I got the same sense. I have a lot of respect for mr Tyson, but his ability to think critically and logically in this interview was not on display. Conclusion: scientists are human. We're all looking for truth, and we all hit speed bumps getting there.
I having a problem with Tyson criticizing cops about how they restrain people. Have they ever restrained anybody? The cops deal with the worst people on the planet. Soilders get treated for ptsd when coming home from war. Are the cops not at war?
@@marleyjanim5033 pretty sure there wasn't one. My theory is there's just a lot of bored culture wars spectators on youtube that wanted more intellectual bloodsport and less productive dialogue.
I drive at night for work. While not in a normally marked delivery vehicle. I get stopped, by police, during drunk thirty hours, I would say monthly. I don't blame racism, I blame drunks. So instead of blaming cops, blame the criminals who cops, are trying to stop.
Me too... multiple times going into work and would be late fir my shift. I don’t know if my boss believed me at first but I got a letter from my manager on company letterhead displaying my work schedule. Both the cop and my boss seemed surprised when the cop called and the pathologist verified that i did work at the hospital and this was my schedule.
The Taxi Cab barometer is highly problematic. NY City was far less safe in the 80’s thru mid 90’s. Crime was rampant. If heading towards a more dangerous area, it is understandable why a cab might be less likely to pick up that passenger. It is also more likely a driver could be stiffed their fare.
It’s totally understandable to you in this moment from the comfort of your home. It’s upsetting to those who experienced it. I hope that’s understandable as well!
@@calikeisha365 that can go both ways ... much of my family came and still live in Brooklyn in a ghetto neighborhood... it was very scary to be a white person there...
At least it would then be a good indicator of the safehood of various neighbourhoods in NYC. But without knowing the background, I am curious how NDT set this up. Is he actually collecting data since the 70ies by noting down literally every taxi experience (positive and negative) in order to get to the percentages he gets? That'd be very interesting if he did
Conversations with Coleman is a great discovery for me. It's an entertaining way to understand a little bit more what´s going on in the US. Thank you Mr. Hughes and cheers from Germany.
Coleman, you did very well. I think you slipped a bit when you were building the counter of "it isn't possible to eliminate police mishaps entirely" when you accidentally walked into the idea that magnification is the critical factor there. Magnification will happen, but that's not the reason that it's not practical to require a total elimination. The reason is actually what Neil said. We can always keep moving forward and we can continue to refine and there are behaviors that should be zero tolerance... But the issue is still about human behavior and it just cannot become perfectly predictable. This means that we can do better and we can improve things, but it's a strong argument against the "defund the police" movement. Still, that was only a minor slip in otherwise excellent argumentation. Neil on the other hand showed a ton of signs of bad argumentation. Emotional arguments, oversimplification, even bad data.... Not your finest hour Neil. And I'm a fan.
Coleman, thanks for bringing a refreshingly nuanced and evidence based perspective to polarizing issues such as systemic racism, police brutality, etc. You’ve started me down a rabbit hole of expanding my sources of influence, helping me to have a more nuanced perspective and assessing what reforms should actually happen to progress America. I’d love to hear a conversation with Killer Mike, another voice and personality I have profound respect for.
I'm not sure why people did, Neil is good on physics, on almost everything else he sounds like a first year university student struggling to sound deep, at least to my ear.
More of this... Intelligent conversations where no one is trying to stroke the others ego. This hour of purely authentic dialogue has taught me more than any other hour on these topics. Coleman, thank you for all you do - you are truly inspirational my friend.
Despite introducing statistics into the conversation with the taxi story, I feel that Dr. Tyson did not quite grasp the implications of the statistics you brought to the table afterward. Instead he seemed to defer to feelings, almost becoming defensive. You can almost sense the tonal shift. I am sure his time is limited as it is, and I could understand not pushing back on any particular issue at the time, but hopefully he had the time to digest the information. I believe you were the professor in this exchange, Coleman.
What "push back" would have been needed by Coleman here? There was literally NOTHING they disagreed on in any fundamental way. Maybe small nuances but the larger points were well subscribed by both. I saw it completely the opposite I guess: Coleman is the new up and coming young genius, and Tyson is the elder-statesman who brought FAR more experience and wisdom to the table.
Coleman you seem to be working hard to be object. It's difficult to stay objective but I'm hoping that you don't let the left or right bias you. Neal, Just for reference, as a white male my life experiences with police. When I was in high school, after a CYO dance outside I saw 2 police purposefully hit a white guy called Fat Frank with the police car sending him sprawling he was able to get up. Also in high school people were saying a tough white guy from the school died in police custody when the police pushed him down the stairs. My brother and I were once driving around the URI campus when I was in college and an officer pulled us over and kept us there for a couple of hours harassing us. He later let us go,telling us we fit a description of people breaking in in to dorm rooms. My brother was older and wanted me to complain because I was driving and lived there, I didn''t though. I was at a party when in college and the friend I rode to the party with drank too much. I told him to let me drive home but he wouldn't listen, so I drove my other friend home, I had had less to drink. My friend drove into the bushes. As I drove by the accident, the police pulled me over and when I rolled down the window the officer reached in with his big flashlight and tapped me under the chin a little too hard. He did let us go though. I've gotten tickets over the years due to driving mistakes and losing track of my speed and the speed limits, mostly the officers have been unfriendly but they just write the ticket and let me go.
...It was written that the divine Revelation would surprise the world; like the surprise caused by a thief at night; in the divine truth nobody is exclusive; they are all my children; more, the one who being first in seeing, and hearing does not give importance to the divine Revelation, that son is not first before the divine Father; it is not because of its own indifference; although opportunity had to be; this results in a crying and gnashing of teeth; then, the divine love attraction between spirit and that which is divine is the most fascinating to human feeling; everyone wants to be saved; but almost nobody conquers his own salvation; only when they see, they believe; not seeing, it's not worth finding out; such, add millions in your world; the fate of these spirits, are the worlds of indifference; sad philosophy; that he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven; there they enter, the humble; that in the silence of their own sufferings, they always had a smile in bloom; that having lived a lifetime of exploitation, they were happy; never a complaint; they were as they are the children. - I will happen to explain to you the divine origin of the solar number: all number, is before all the world; that is to say that every number is first, feeling; and before feeling is a divine mandate, in solar suspension; that is to say, he waits in his library for theBedrío; this wait can be eternal; for it works in itself, in celestial weather; every number, has a divine record; that goes back to distant galaxies; every number is a living philosophy; every number is before the creature that thinks it; all numeral calculus is a divine instantaneous alliance of numeral cherubim; every number is first in life; for without the number, there would be no life; for life, is a divine calculation, of other lives, and of other numbers; and both are divine product of the divine Ball of living fire; there are all the causes; the known and unknown; to try to penetrate beyond the respective galactic number, it is like trying to penetrate, in the divine freedom of theBedrío of the divine Father Jehovah; all planetary knowledge has its limit; it is subject to its own hierarchy; it can not go further; for every number with which their divine alliances arose, bring within themselves, their own limitation; they are allied destinations, in the same moment of the celestial time; and having traveled unprecedented distances, they are specified in a single solar line; that is, they mature in a transfer to material life; this transfer includes a momentary oblivion, in every spirit; of the worlds of the flesh; if it were not so, human life would not be a test; it would not be a spiritual progress; then, everything would be given to him; no effort would cost him; there would be no merit in anything; Merit is the cause of a difficulty; in overcoming this, there is the triumph of the spirit; the divine parable explains it: You will earn your bread, with the sweat of your forehead; pity that men have falsified this; they took out the money and exploited their brothers; no demon that nourished in life, this philosophy, Enter the Kingdom of Heaven; will be forgotten, in human happiness.- Alpha and Omega DIVINE ORIGIN OF THE SOLAR NUMBER; HOW THE DIVINE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION WAS DONE, TO CREATE THE EARTH; YOUR GALACTIC NUMBER; HIS DIVINE SPIRITUAL HIERARCHY BETWEEN THE WORLDS OF THE FLESH.- 2017 IN THE THINKING EXPANSIVE UNIVERSE, THERE ARE INFINITE INHABITED PLANETS; OTHERS WERE AND OTHERS WERE; THE WORLD OF TRIALS WILL SEE SUCH CREATURES ON SOLAR TELEVISION; WHICH IS THE SAME BOOK OF LIFE, OF THE DIVINE GOSPEL OF FATHER JEHOVAH; IN FRONT OF THIS COLOSSAL TELEVISION, MILLIONS OF MATERIALIST UNBELIEVERS WILL BE FILLED WITH SHAME; THOSE WHO LIMIT THE DIVINE POWER OF GOD, ALWAYS LOSE IN THEIR DIVINE PLANETARY JUDGMENTS; IT IS MORE LIKELY FOR ONE WHO DID NOT DENY THEM IN THE TRIALS OF LIFE, TO VISIT THE FAR WORLDS OF SPACE; THAT ONE WHO DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEM TO VISIT THEM.- 7 Seals = REVOLUTION in The Divine Kingdom of HEAVENS. The one above is the same as the one below. ScienceCeleste com AlfayOmega com .pe My New Name: Alpha Omega Alian = Jehovah The Most High, The Almighty, The Eternal Father. Jesus Christ = Mohammed MSTO = MASTER = CHRIST Revelation chapter 3:12, 19:12, The Antichrist and the False Prophet and the Spirit of Error 1 John chapter 4.
@@angelmediadorentrenosotros7579 dude no one is going to read whatever nonsense this is. If you want to post some religious BS at least make a short and sweet point. This Is just obnoxious to scroll through
I think alot of this location based and has little to do with race. I get historical segregation and such has played a part but it isnt the same issue today as it was. Out of control police can and do mess with people of all colors
Many of us have a cop story or two (I do also) but what Niel is talking about is more than that. As a white guy ive been pulled over. I have a lot of white friends and they've been pulled over. But these testimonials from black people - being pulled over for driving a "suspicious vehicle," and then being *searched*, i've actually never heard of that happening to a law abiding white person and I actually do feel fairly confident inferring racism in such cases.
@@metalstarj If racism is a factor, why is it people in the lower socioeconomic strata tend to hate cops more than those in the upper socioeconomic strata amongst whites?
All in all, a pretty respectful exchange of thoughts. Where they agreed it was obvious, where they disagreed they treated the others' reasoning respectfully. Good job, brothers.
My father had the exact same conversation with me on how to conduct myself when dealing with the police. I've been pulled over for complete bullshit reasons at least a dozen times. I follow the rules of dealing respectfully with the police. I've been put in cuffs and sat in the back of cruisers, I've been searched, had my car searched, been told my options were to accept a bogus weed ticket or be taken to jail over Thanksgiving weekend, been stopped by a bicycle cop for "looking suspicious" while walking through a wealthy neighborhood, any number of aggravating infringements on my 4th Amendment rights. Throughout, I conducted myself with restraint and respect, and none of these incidents led to my arrest. Oh, by the way, I'm white. It's not the color of your skin, it's how you conduct yourself when you have to deal with being pulled over.
@@wiseonwords you didn't actually rebut anything he just said, are you just propagating religious dogma? How about use your brain before you respond in order to come up with something that actually adds to the conversation instead of just making yourself look like a moron
Sure, that applies to minorities who are dealing with a police officer with no racial prejudice or bias. Sadly that’s not the world that we live in. For you to just assume everyone’s encounter with law enforcement would be the exact same as yours is kind of ignorant. If racism still exists then racist police officers also exist, unless you’re implying that racism doesn’t exist which would be completely delusional.
His point is it's not just minorities who have the potential to experience this not that everyone's experience is the same. I dont understand why this conversation always has to be viewed through a lens of racial identity, any time any person is in a situation where they can abuse power over another individual for any reason there need to be checks and balances in place. Certainly there are racist white cops, just as I'm sure there are some officers who don't like people based on a multitude of other arbitrary characteristics. White people are killed by white police all the time. What can we do to better limit the police forces over reaches of power is the more constructive dialogue than just how do we get racist cops to stop abusing minorities.
What you don’t understand is that nobody with a brain is saying that police aren’t abusing and killing white people unjustly. We aren’t saying that it doesn’t happen to you. The point is that a white person doesn’t even have to worry about racial profiling and that’s why you’re not able to empathize in this situation. Let’s also be honest, what are the odds that an abusive piece of shit cop hates every single person in America equally and doesn’t also carry racist ideology. Clearly those police officers don’t have much virtue or empathy for others in the first place.
Where i grew up almost everyone (strangely excludding asians) had numerous stories of police abusing their power and station. Hell, i remeber when my friend recorded a massive officer breaking up a house party and for no reason runs up and straight up bart Simpson chokes this tiny ass hipster while his partner starts macing the inside of the house like its lysol.
Interesting conversation with a successful, thoughtful man (who carries his own baggage of the much larger problem than Racism--Misogyny). Minimizing potential harm done in all life & death-related professions--without political-based agitation to riots (especially, during a pandemic) and without media sensationalistic bias, seems like the rational, civilized way to go. Keep up the good work, the wide perspective (including how women are affected by police indifference/passive brutality) and sense of proportion, Coleman!
hey Coleman, I think there's a lil editing mishap at the beginning of you speaking at 27:24? seems like it cuts halfway though a sentence. Fantastic work as always though, keep it up :)
Neil is smart, obviously. But I understand why he chooses to ignore the data here, and kind of dismiss the conversation at times. It is so terrifying to be cancelled and he's high up, ready to fall. Agreeing with common sense in an emotional movement is tough. I see it with people I love and who I know are intelligent. Social pressure to perform and conform is strong, and even giants like Tyson are susceptible. Maybe even more so because they have more to lose. Thank you, Coleman, for being braver than ALL of us.
As the modern unofficial, and possibly reluctant, spokesperson for the scientific community, Tyson in conversation is always an enlightening experience. His talents merit a place at the forefront of human endeavor moving us all forward as a species while inspiring future generations toward the attainment of knowledge. For him to have to address the ugly issues of racial injustice and stupidity is a colossal disservice to him and society as a whole. Instead of engaging in his work from which we may collectively benefit, he must leave his post at the front to mire in the muck and help push from the rear. Bigotry, racism, religious animosity, superstition and ignorance should not be encumbrances of any of us, let alone our best and brightest. Yet here we are, laden with the fact that although the data of N.G.T's cab-metric may show progress, we're still dredging through the problems of our lowest character. Excelsior Mr. Tyson.
Coleman Hughes, glad I found your podcast. I applaud your courage in bringing up this subject. I heard mention of you on a Sam Harris podcast. It's also cool that you got Dr. Tyson on board. I am trying to ingest enough information on this subject so I can speak to and communicate this subject to others in a calm and rational voice. Wish me luck. I wish you luck too.
Imagine getting that emotionally charged after just saying "I'm speaking as a scientist" Tyson was rather demeaning at some points in this conversation. He makes very subtle character jabs at Coleman throughout. Lost a little respect not gonna lie.
@@Rassalcon fair enough He still makes an effort to smugly insult Coleman for no apparent reason at multiple points in the conversation. He constantly implied that his thoughts were deeper than Colemans and that Coleman lacked sensitivity.
I'm a white man in his late 20s and I have been stopped by the police a number of times in three countries (Canada, the United States and Israel). But the difference was that in every situation, there was always a very clear reason why I was stopped and I never felt threatened. These reasons ranged from being asked about a suspect they were chasing, to getting warnings about rolling a stop sign and hanging too long in the fast lane, to just being curious about a young guy reaching in a back seat of my car (there was a crime wave in the area I was living in), to sitting in a parking lot at 1 a.m. after going on a drive to blow off steam. I've only ever actually been punished once (one speeding ticket). But I never felt targeted by cops, and I don't know any other white people who have either, even if they may have an occasional story about being unfairly ticketed. By contrast, most of my black friends and acquaintances have stories. And they're mostly people of middle and upper middle class upbringing like me with a degree or two or three. I related to Tyson's story from a different perspective.
My parents put me through the same "police training" when I was young. My dad told me, "they will shoot you if you do something stupid". I've had similar experiences with over 10 encounters with police in a single year. I'm white. Pasty, white. Frame things through a colored lense and you see them that way. Much respect to you both. Really killing it, Coleman!
Coleman, it's great you provide a platform of dialogue and letting your guest share thoughts and ideas so we can all express and exercise our First Amendment.
Seriously, same stuff happens to white people everyday but then afterwards we just forget about it. We don't file it away as some sort of systemic conspiracy. So how are you going to differentiate when it's racist and when it's not? Has he considered that maybe when in an all black context, you're not getting both sides of the american experience? Where's the control group Neil?
JeuϟPater as a black South African I find your comments being just mental gymnastics ...black people die in the hands of the police in America disproportionately.NdT is calm and sharing his life perceptions as a black man in America....please acknowledge that.
@@normanndaba8823 That is completely false. There are mountains of data & studies on this that the media never discusses. Washington Post data, CDC Data, FBI data. Harvard Ivy league studies. Look up it. Ps. I don't care what your identity is. We're all humans.
@@jeupater1429 from what i heard in this video. Neil acknowledged that in general its equally dangerous when anyone regardless of color interracts with the police and that it would be generally safer for people if the interactions are reduced. One interesting point I think he made was that there might be baises that increases rate of police interactions between black people (stop and frisk etc) which makes the impact there worse. He might be wrong on that point but I find it interesting enough to investigate further
This is a huge leap for Coleman. Expect this to blow up with NGT on it, he's mainstream. I've heard nothing but good things about Coleman and from him when I've listened to him. Hopefully this'll be good.
I have been a big fan of Mr. Tyson for many years. This was not him in top form, but this is a most difficult topic, and the discussion is important. Mr. Hughes has an important voice, and is remarkable for 23 years of age.
Boy, I've never seen Tyson so emotional and making such poor arguments. It's like he wasn't mentally prepared to ear that the problem of police murders of unharmed persons is a small problem statistically and that it affects whites as much as blacks. And they didn't discuss the bias in media and society in reactions to the murders by police of black persons versus white persons in very similar circumstances.
@@CVLFMG He lost me when he brought up his personal statistics. Are we supposed to believe he kept track of his yielding cabs, for decades? Come on now. 'In the 80s, it was, errr... a third!' He is just making it up as he goes along. Never mind the fact that it doesn't constitute evidence.
@@wildzwaan what do you mean "come on now". Why is that far fetched? And if you dont believe his experience, what about the millions of people that report the same experiences? And when does it constitute evidence? At 10? 100? 1000? 10k? 100k? 500k? Or do they not matter at all, until the police release their statistics?
Thank you, gentleman! A wonderful conversation, deeply felt and honestly thought! I live in Honduras, a lost little country right now, but struggling for survival.
I’m surprised I used to think Tyson was a logical guy. Most of his arguments here are emotional anecdotes. It’s not to devalue the anecdotes, which I think are valuable in recognizing a bias in police action AND the perception of police action. He prefaces some arguments with “as a physicist” or “as a scientist” only to proceed to dismiss the data he was just presented with in favor of how people feel and the value of anecdotes over statistics... It’s just unreal to see a guy who was instrumental in helping me think more logically about letting go of my biases on religion or Pluto in favor of reality now suffer an inability to overcome his own biases. He’s as much of a hypocrite as the anti-scientific community he was once so focused on condemning.
I don't think so. I think he was saying that even though the number of unarmed black people killed by police is small as a fraction of all ways a person might die, it's part of a context in which black people have felt targeted by police (historically out and out persecuted, more recently it's smaller things like just more likely to be stopped, frisked, etc). So even though the number of deaths is low, people see it as a symptom of a larger problem. Not saying every BLM member has that understanding, but that's what I got from this interview and i think it makes sense.
He's never spoken of his "black" experience before. He didn't want to be known as the "black" astrophysicist. He was always so adamant about being judged in accordance to his merit because he really IS exceptionally brilliant! Like Einstein level of smart! Closest I've heard him speak of race before was when he said people used to try to discourage him from astrophysics & encourage him to pursue basketball. I guess the lid finally popped. Pisses me off more that it's happened to him too over anybody else!
Neil degrasse tyson singlehandedly got me into astronomy and cosmology, so I've always been a huge fan. no after hearing him open up about the issues he's had due to being black and opening up about his own political outlook I respect him even more. And I'm turning into quite the fan of Coleman Hughes. I only started listening to him maybe a week ago after watching the glenn show with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter, and he is so damn bright not only for his age, but in general. He's seems so calm and intelligent. I'd love to have a meal and pick his brain about some things.
Neil is getting a bit emotional speaking "as a scientist" when Coleman points out the very real dilemma that in a country with so many people, some will be mentally ill, some will be potentially dangerous in the moment, and some cops will make mistakes or be cunts. You can better vet the cops and bring that lower, but ultimately you're not going to get these killings to zero. You're just not. It's absurd to compare getting that number to zero to ending slavery. And not being at zero does not justify riots.
But it is an emotional issue for him as he and people like him are mistreated more often than not. Its okay saying he is a scientist but he is a human being first. He is not some artificial intelligence that has no feelings at all. And like Coleman stated there are peaceful protests and there are riots, why do you choose to just talk of the riots and disregard the peaceful protests. Its amazing that you would want a discussion void of emotion when the very topic is emotional. Maybe not for you as you might be removed from it.
@@revival45 I was quoting him when I said "as a scientist" - he said that...for some reason. I know the reason actually. It's because he was using the appeal to authority fallacy to bolster his argument...which is weak and came across quite desperate. Still though I think it's very important in this discussion to be careful with our emotions. Ultimately Neil isn't ever that interesting to listen to as I think he thinks he is. Maybe if the tide turned and it became cooler to be anti-BLM he would do that for cool points. OK I retract my riots coment for "protests", whatever you want to call it. Though some BLM members would justify riots, defunding police and revolution.
AWESOME COLEMAN, hope it is/was a great conversation. I read Tyson's posts about current events recently and would be interested to hear more in depth what he thinks and what he might say to your hard hitting questions on the topic.
We also underwent the exact same police encounter prep in our family. My parents with us, me with my children. The key issue, every police encounter involves a gun. All parents worry about that. Every parent’s obligations should include this talk.
Tyson’s idea of keeping the bad apples out of police departments doesn’t consider that it may be the experience of being a cop that turns good apples into bad apples.
@mxlbabe You know LBJ modeled the Civil Rights legislation he pushed after the same legislation which the United States had used to destroy the native american population. He saw the more you focus government policy on a specific group of people the more impoverished you make them and the more dependant you make them on surviving off of the benefits provided by the government and as long as you stay on message indicating how much more work there is to do the more loyal this targeted group is going to be if guided by corrupt leaders willing to sell out their own people to spread your message. LBJ never apologized for his racism calling MLK a ni**** until the day he died. Why do you think Malcolm X warned blacks that progressives were the most dangerous threat to the black community; moreso than any kkk member because at least you could identify a kkk member from miles away. LBJ and the civil rights legislation, my friend, has done what neither Slavery, nor segregation nor Jim Crowe could accomplish in their heyday.....your racist hero in a party of racists have managed to take a group of people who were moving up like a rocket during the 19th and early 20th Century with the amount of affluence and wealth blacks were accruing.....your saint LBJ managed to not only stop the wealth building of the black community but actually succeeded in destroying the black nuclear family and decimate generations of black people to an indoctrinated acceptance of poverty. A black child in the 19th Century had a greater chance of being born into a home with their biological mother and biological father than a white child. Black students were out performing white students in education graduating at the top of their class on average higher and obtaining higher levels of competancy, on average, than whites. Black entrepreneurs in industry were providing better quality products, cheaper labor and out working their white counterparts. LBJ and his "Great Society" slammed the breaks on that and threw it in reverse as they had government workers go around black neighborhoods apprising people of the government programs they could take advatage of and all they had to do was have no father in the home, not work and have kids to care for. How compassionate. Why is it so difficult to understand that when government taxes something you get less of it. When government subsidizes something you get more of it. The government has targeted black communities to subsidize behavior that results in no father at home, no employment and little kids to care for and you are somehow surprised or unable to make the connection that the 75% single motherhood rate in the black community is because racism? Yeah it is due to racism. The racism of the same damn party that has always been about race and racial division. You think democrats care about black people by having the govermment subsidize single motherhood, unemployment and hungry kids? Blacks up until the 1960's were actually rapidly improving, which if left alone, likely would have met the improvements of both asians and jews. But a sustained government effort to focus dependancy on black communities by the only party in the history of this country to predicate policy since its inception through today entirely on race has destroyed the black family unlike any racist effort in all previous history.
Thank you Coleman! Would love for you to explore how NYC police dept is achieving their positive stats. PTSD is a well-acknowledged issue for veterans, I've often wondered why we don't hear about PTSD and the police.
DeGrasse didnt just duck the questions like he did with Harris, but I dont think, to the extent he did answer, he was either on topic or objective for much of this discussion. He seems to want to walk in both isles. That is, to not pronounce on a definitive postion, I think for obvious reasons, or to add overly long caveats, with respect to what is a hugely consequential and damaging narrative. Other comments seem to me quite on point here in that DeGrasse seems to get asked about today, now, when we see inexcusable madness nearly everywhere, he goes to decades old examples of isolated racism nobody would countenance. " I dont care what the percent is" being said by someone who is otherwise a champion of empiricism, and as someone who knows the "lowly stamp of our origins", as well as having two eyes to see exactly what is going in, seems genuinely quixotic. Im not sure he was at all helpful in this discussion.
Neil's passion is what has made him special. It seems that this latest straw has opened a flood gate for him and his performance seems influenced by an extra dose of adrenaline. It's like Coleman is his therapist in this, just letting him vent. I agree that Neil was not at his most rational is this, but that also made it quite moving for me.
First of all, thanks for another great conversation Coleman, I can't believe I've neglected to subscribe until now as I've listened to every episode of your cast since you started. Second I have to say I quite enjoyed Mr. Tyson here. I'm not usually a fan of his because I find his public persona to be irritating, like he's always trying to be the "cool" or "hip" scientist with his pop culture references and so on, but I feel like we're seeing a more genuine reflection of the man in this podcast. Neil deGrasse Tyson the astrophysicist, rather than Neil deGrasse Tyson the entertainer and I find it quite suits him. Thank you for bringing out the best of your guest.
"The talk" is less common in white homes partly because the meta-narrative of the community is not "the police are your enemy". I had a cop with her hand on her holster once. I was just on the side of the road checking my oil. She was supposedly stopping to HELP me! I didn't start saying, "Leave me alone. Why did you approach me? I didn't do anything!" Instead I placed my hands on the hood of my car and asked "What do you want me to do to make you comfortable that you get to go home tonight to your family, because you are obviously very nervous? Would you like me to get on the ground and place my hands behind my head? I am simply checking my oil." The reality is cops are terrified of contacts with the public. Especially alone. I have seen the videos of the smiling motorist who suddenly pulls a hidden gun and shoots the police officer, and I know they are watching the same videos. Our problem is that we are a violent, well armed, emotionally unstable, drugged out population and police have a dangerous thankless job.
NDT once said "a great challenge of life: knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong". Perfectly applies to him on politics and BLM. Still he's a great intellectual.
Ross Miller To me, NDT came across as rather arrogant. How many times did he mention he was a scientist? Or a mathematician who could understand statistics, in fact, after he tried clarifying his positions, I was left somewhat confused.
...It was written that the divine Revelation would surprise the world; like the surprise caused by a thief at night; in the divine truth nobody is exclusive; they are all my children; more, the one who being first in seeing, and hearing does not give importance to the divine Revelation, that son is not first before the divine Father; it is not because of its own indifference; although opportunity had to be; this results in a crying and gnashing of teeth; then, the divine love attraction between spirit and that which is divine is the most fascinating to human feeling; everyone wants to be saved; but almost nobody conquers his own salvation; only when they see, they believe; not seeing, it's not worth finding out; such, add millions in your world; the fate of these spirits, are the worlds of indifference; sad philosophy; that he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven; there they enter, the humble; that in the silence of their own sufferings, they always had a smile in bloom; that having lived a lifetime of exploitation, they were happy; never a complaint; they were as they are the children. - I will happen to explain to you the divine origin of the solar number: all number, is before all the world; that is to say that every number is first, feeling; and before feeling is a divine mandate, in solar suspension; that is to say, he waits in his library for theBedrío; this wait can be eternal; for it works in itself, in celestial weather; every number, has a divine record; that goes back to distant galaxies; every number is a living philosophy; every number is before the creature that thinks it; all numeral calculus is a divine instantaneous alliance of numeral cherubim; every number is first in life; for without the number, there would be no life; for life, is a divine calculation, of other lives, and of other numbers; and both are divine product of the divine Ball of living fire; there are all the causes; the known and unknown; to try to penetrate beyond the respective galactic number, it is like trying to penetrate, in the divine freedom of theBedrío of the divine Father Jehovah; all planetary knowledge has its limit; it is subject to its own hierarchy; it can not go further; for every number with which their divine alliances arose, bring within themselves, their own limitation; they are allied destinations, in the same moment of the celestial time; and having traveled unprecedented distances, they are specified in a single solar line; that is, they mature in a transfer to material life; this transfer includes a momentary oblivion, in every spirit; of the worlds of the flesh; if it were not so, human life would not be a test; it would not be a spiritual progress; then, everything would be given to him; no effort would cost him; there would be no merit in anything; Merit is the cause of a difficulty; in overcoming this, there is the triumph of the spirit; the divine parable explains it: You will earn your bread, with the sweat of your forehead; pity that men have falsified this; they took out the money and exploited their brothers; no demon that nourished in life, this philosophy, Enter the Kingdom of Heaven; will be forgotten, in human happiness.- Alpha and Omega DIVINE ORIGIN OF THE SOLAR NUMBER; HOW THE DIVINE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION WAS DONE, TO CREATE THE EARTH; YOUR GALACTIC NUMBER; HIS DIVINE SPIRITUAL HIERARCHY BETWEEN THE WORLDS OF THE FLESH.- 2017 IN THE THINKING EXPANSIVE UNIVERSE, THERE ARE INFINITE INHABITED PLANETS; OTHERS WERE AND OTHERS WERE; THE WORLD OF TRIALS WILL SEE SUCH CREATURES ON SOLAR TELEVISION; WHICH IS THE SAME BOOK OF LIFE, OF THE DIVINE GOSPEL OF FATHER JEHOVAH; IN FRONT OF THIS COLOSSAL TELEVISION, MILLIONS OF MATERIALIST UNBELIEVERS WILL BE FILLED WITH SHAME; THOSE WHO LIMIT THE DIVINE POWER OF GOD, ALWAYS LOSE IN THEIR DIVINE PLANETARY JUDGMENTS; IT IS MORE LIKELY FOR ONE WHO DID NOT DENY THEM IN THE TRIALS OF LIFE, TO VISIT THE FAR WORLDS OF SPACE; THAT ONE WHO DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEM TO VISIT THEM.- 7 Seals = REVOLUTION in The Divine Kingdom of HEAVENS. The one above is the same as the one below. ScienceCeleste com AlfayOmega com .pe My New Name: Alpha Omega Alian = Jehovah The Most High, The Almighty, The Eternal Father. Jesus Christ = Mohammed MSTO = MASTER = CHRIST Revelation chapter 3:12, 19:12, The Antichrist and the False Prophet and the Spirit of Error 1 John chapter 4.
I've noticed Neil hasn't been as tactful in his ability to veil his arrogance as he once was. Although some are much better hiding it than others, it's unfortunately a common characteristic amongst people of Neil's public stature.
@Joel Harvey ...but it is a clear example of resources being dedicated to make a low probability and zero probability. FAA and NTSB resources may have far exceeded diminishing returns, but I am fine with their existence and activities. If law enforcement is changed for the better in this country because of BLM's hyperbolic rhetoric and Black people owning this issue, why be so disgusted about it?
@Joel Harvey Around 7,500 Black homicides in 2018 and 228 police killings of Blacks. Once again, a little more than 40 cops out of 900,000 were killed annually. You seem to justify police hysteria but regard Black hysteria as nonsense.
Wow 👍 Coleman is starting to get the recognition he deserves.
He’s been on some great videos and conversations lately
I am happy for him. We really need more sane voices like him.
Attaboy!
And from this interview, Tyson is starting to lose the recognition he doesn't
Yes it’s good to see but I also think he’s wary enough about being patronised by white people to want to swing to the anti racist side for a while which might be interesting too...
"I've never been in a group of white people telling police stories. Maybe they have them and they just don't tell them."
Here ya go. 19 years old - drinking beer at a party with other underage kids. Police show up, sirens blaring, barge through the door as kids scurry off. I stand up as they come through the door, lead cop grabs me and tosses me into a bay window, breaking the window and streaming glass down over me, cutting my face. He grabs me again, pushes me onto my belly, face down, putting his boot on the back of my neck. He leaves it there, with maybe nto full weight on my neck, but a lot. It hurt badly. His partner asked him to stop, one of the local cops(it was a mix of state and local) asks him to step off me. He doesn't listen.
21 year old - get pulled over coming home from a 21st birthday celebration. They ask me where the drugs are. Iwas a pot smoker, but I didn't have anything on me and no reason to think i did. They pull me out of the car, handcuff me and set me alongside the road. Pull everything out of my car and search. It goes on for 20 minutes, they keep looking and looking an dloooking. Nothing. Dogs brought in. Nothing. They leave all of my shit sitting outside my car along the highway, get in their cars and leave.
If I was black, I'd probably assume those cops were racists. Since I'm white, I just figured they were assholes.
The last two lines are it, so much. I've actually had situations where I got pulled over for no reason. I've been the passenger in those situations with a black driver as well, and EVEN I THOUGHT the first cop was just an asshole, and the 2nd was racist, even though the actual facts of both cases are the same. It's crazy.
Do black people really think whites don't have police stories? Or whites don't teach their kids the same rules about being stopped?
@@Foslopac for me it was a generational thing. my grandad had stories about the police and stuff, but they always boiled down to "and then he threw my stuff out and told me to get outta here! lol" ......
Like....can we AT LEAST be adult enough to acknowledge, compared to blacks.....whites had it REALLLLLLL GOOD in this country for a little while longer....I don't know what's so hard for people to understand that in America......whites and blacks didn't really "mix" all that much outside a slavery and welfare.....
Oh, and now it's all about bein an "ally", whatever the hell that means in 2020, but we still ain't got the balls to say the n-word in public....cause OTHER WHITE PEOPLE blow us up on the media....
this country is a f**kin mess, mate 🤣
Remember that drunk kid in on his knees who was gunned down by you’re fucked? BLM went to bat for that kid. That cop is currently getting paid.
Here's the deal. If you're a TSA agent and you are more suspicious of a beardy Middle Eastern man than you're of a cleanly shaven Caucasian woman, that's not because you're racist, that's just being minimally intelligent. The point is, when a cop pulls over a black person, how much of it is warranted good policing vs. actual racial bias. The distinction needs to be made, and it's difficult because only the cop knows what's in his mind; it's possibly even subconscious. If a cop is policing a crime-infested neighborhood like Oakland or Chicago or Baltimore, and he sees 2 black guys in a car at 2 in the morning, how much of that is racial bias vs. being minimally intelligent? A black guy in a shiny sport car in downtown Oakland, a black guy in a jalopy with a brand new license plate, cops should be looking for suspicious markers. Why? What the hell is their job but to stop the chem pushers and the gangbangers from turning that community to shit, as if those inner-city communities aren't already in so deep.
Anyone else?:
I'm white and my uncle taught me to roll down the windows, shut off the engine and pull out the keys and to keep my hands on the wheel until the officer asks for anything. Once he does, let him know that I'm getting stuff from my glove box.
Richard Freeman Mexican here, and I kinda just assumed everyone did these sorts of things. I feel like a lot of it is just an epistemological problem inherent to existence. You know your motives, cops don’t. Injecting common knowledge into the situation is just smart.
Are you culturally appropriating coming of age stories there Richard?
Yeah cops are scary as hell
@@zapazap Hahahahahahaha
I hear this point brought up by black people often, as if white parents don't teach their kids the exact same things.
One explanation for cabbies ignoring him less from the 90s on is their enlightened attitudes. Another is that he was getting older and thus perceived as less threatening.
Thomas Sowell has an excellent article on exactly this topic, of cabbies picking up black men in New York. They are comfortable picking up old men, or women. And these attitudes exist among black cab drivers as well, who presumably aren't racist towards themselves. It's stereotype accuracy, and the cost of determining if the stereotype is true.
The 90s was also the golden age of Hip Hop and black culture became mainstream. America was less igorant, maybe why cabbies were less afraid. Also most cabbies in NYC are 1st gen immigrants from pretty racist countries so not sure if that data can b applied to the typical american
Also, doesn't it matter the race of the taxi driver? Why is that not a part of the discussion?
He was born in '58 so he would've still be in his 30s for most of the 90s. Would cabbies really see a guy in his 30s as a friendly, harmless old guy?
This is exactly what I was seeing. The risk of trouble is directly correlated to age, particularly in urban centers. I do not doubt race played a role but not the primary role. How does Degrasse not see that?
Neil has kept statistics of him yielding cabs for decades?! Yeah ok. I'm not buying it.
I'm surprised at how underprepared Neil deGrasse Tyson was for this interview.
I felt like Coleman has disagreements with Tyson that he held back for the sake of being a generous interviewer, but I'm surprised that Tyson struggled with even the softball questions.
I was beyond shocked when I heard Tyson not know Emmett Till's name.
Neil is more of an astrophysicist than a public intellectual and it shows.
he's used to people fawning over him because he is a physicist, and most people can barely spell physics lol
@@GeorgiesGirlFPV Probably not so much because he is a physicist but because he is constantly being approached by the media to comment on something. The media ignore thousands of other physicists out there and keep asking same Neil or Kaku over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, as if the entire field consisted of two people. It's kind of telling both of them keep responding to that instead of refusing and asking that the media talk to other colleagues.
@Tyler Zacher The media are using Hollywood's "star system", they think this attracts more viewers. Few people in that position have the strength or the wisdom to resist that sort of temptation.
@Tyler Zacher I know nothing about Tyson's political views, I was only talking about science programs, typically PBS. They have a tendency to cling to the same people once they find someone who performs well before the camera. It's the same in Hollywood, it's not terribly sinister actually, a lot of it is just about saving money: a new person requires camera training from scratch, etc. That's one reason why otherwise completely unremarkable people (e.g. Steve Buscemi) keep getting hired again and again. Learns the lines quickly, shows up on time, able to repeat a take very accurately if needed, otherwise no need for 100 wasted takes, done.
Coleman is a fantastic interviewer. You bring on a guest to share their perspective on a topic you are asking questions about (in a respectful way), and have an open dialogue. Kudos!
I love the StarTalk podcast btw, I also love Coleman and Sam! =)
Nobody is perfect. Neil just proved during this conversation that our biases affect us even if we are Astrophysicists.
Scientists that are acting on their own biases, always say “I’m a scientist” trying to convince themselves they aren’t acting on their biases.
Huh?
Or police.
You thought only you could be biased and racist
So, NDT claims to think mathematically, except when a proposition offends his emotional sensibilities. If he thought like an economist, he'd have understood the law of diminishing returns behind Coleman's observation about the increasing difficulty of eradicating bad behavior as the numbers shrink and it would not have engendered any controversy.
I came here to make the same comment. Strange stance for a scientist to make, of all people he should know it’s near impossible to achieve what he’s advocating for. Sam Harris made this point.
Law of diminishing returns was exactly what Coleman's comment brought to my mind, too.
I think Neil Tyson made a very good point, actually. His point was that George Floyd was not an average case of unjustified homicide by police, but an exceptionally egregious case. One shouldn't lump it together with other cases of police officers thinking in the heat of the moment that they see a gun that isn't there, etc., which are more understandable mistakes which are harder to prevent. Even though it is true that you can't get the total number of unjustified homicides by police down to zero, you might be able to get the number of such egregious cases down to a figure that is much less than 1 per year.
@@seeker.8785 I totally agree. I was a little disappointed that NDT doesn't address the point of how difficult it becomes to reduce the unlawful use of deadly force, but his response captures why I haven't been able to fully get on board with Coleman's larger position on these issues, despite agreeing with him on most of the details. His concern is that there is a disproportionate and misdirected public response to the murder of black people by police, which is either counterproductive or not productive to solving issues of police violence, given what the data tells us about how uncommon deaths by police are, and about how whites may be just as likely as blacks to die at the hands of police. Except that this reading misses the egregious nature of some of these murders, and the fact that you don't need data on how common these are in order to imagine tangible changes that might help prevent them. To the extent that law enforcement refuses to accept that its current practices allow for such cases to occur, I think the public outcry is very much justified.
Ya and he totally straw manned and gaslighted what Cole said. Of course we should care about these things, and ya ideally they shouldn't happen, but sadly these events will happen from time to time
Coleman should be in Joe Rogans podcast
Rogan's been on a strong streak of left wing orthodoxy. he needs a non-grifting centrist like coleman asap
I agree!
It should be his first one on Spotify only. Spotify Joe Rogan should be the point where he'll have Coleman on to talk some sense about this stuff. It would be great for Spotify, great for Joe Rogan, and it would totally blow up Coleman's channel in a great way. And Coleman's the kind of guy that if youtube wanted to shut him up once he got more famous, he'd only make more money moving elsewhere.
@@andrewdishman577 Coleman is a smart courageous dude. He's here to stay for sure.
He seems like he could be a member of the intellectual dark web
I think the problem is using group identity to define individual actions. Take away group identity and see that it was an evil man doing evil things and he should be held accountable.
This is very easy to say while we continue to ignore the group's authority to not only protect the individual from prosecution, but their complicity in watching in silence as that same individual commits his crimes with impunity.
I'm all for a system which persecutes only the individuals fairly, but in order for that to happen we need to actually have a system in place in which there is no hierarchy of groups to enable the injustices of one group against another.
@@rickycouture7224 you are smart. continue to do good and think right
@@rickycouture7224 well of course, and what you said is easy to say as well. Saying things is always more easy then doing things. But all of it must be said so that it can eventually be acted on. The system needs to change we agree on that and from what I see we both agree that using group identity is not the right way to go about it.
Something I'm confused about is when you said " group authority" what exactly do you mean? What group are you talking about?.
If you were talking about police that is more then a group it is also an organization and in an organization you will have a hierarchy. Men on top controlling the rules for the workers under them. If your saying that is the justification for blaming everyone in that organization for the actions of few I will disagree.
v c by group authority I think he’s referring to white supremacy in America.
This statement should have way more likes.
The longer I watch this the more I'm starting to think that Neil deGrasse Tyson isn't actually in space.
It's the worst green screen I've ever seen, he might as well have worn a green top.
Technically though everything is in space.
@@oourdumb It's true, one can see it coming a mile away, the way he gets overcome by emotion and starts pooh poohing "data".
This is the only comment on this video I can unambiguously agree with, without reservation. Bravo.
@@oourdumb this is rediculous. You don't like his argument, so rather than counter it you just assume he will eventually make a manifestly stupid one and you argue with that instead.
For as many times as I say to myself, “Don’t do it. Don’t read the comments,” sometimes you people give me actual hope. The comments on this are for the most part clearer-headed than Tyson.
@ Agree. I'm so disappointed to learn he's as duped with postmodernism as the rest of the education establishment.
@@blackmore4 Indeed. I always regarded him as a voice of reason, such a big fan of his :'( This broke my heart
ya'll playin right......like......you DIDN'T have, I don't know, maybe just ONE teeny tiny thought in the back a your head that Neil was yet another Token Black (R) in a series of moves by institutions publicly to appear more "friendly" with blacks???????????
plz tell me ya'll playin.....
@@Macheako gatekeepers of MSM require membership of the intersectional Borg to join their little club. We all know they are all multiple incarnations of one intersectional brain.
@@djanitatiana yea, but it's probably a gang bang a whites at the very tippy top :/
As a fan of Neil from the Science side of things this was hard to watch. His views on "bad cops" was so very simplistic. I wonder how he intends to weed them out in recruitment. I am shocked he seems to think some form of bigotry is the main thing that causes a cop to be bad. He seems to have very little regard for the fact that a bad outcome is more likely due to bad judgement in the moment than due to a personality flaw.
Even if we only had morally pure officers, we would still have bad incidents, review boards would still be necessary.
The problem is that bad judgements happen mostly to black people...I guess it’s difficult to grasp the pain that some White people inflict on blacks...
Sadly Neil is using the language of intersectionality to address the problem. The user interface of post modernism. This is like trying to extinguish a fire with hydrazine. If you see everything through the lens of race then you get race war. We are currently on a unwavering increasing trajectory to civil conflict that will cost many lives. Obviously Neil’s critical skills don’t extend beyond physics.
xsomenoobx he’s still a beneficiary of that quota culture
@Jonathan Renaud except there is literally hundreds of years of historical precedent that show white people have an extremely negative bias towards African people. It was only one generation ago where the civil rights act was passed. What makes you think these police are just bad apples when police have historically been terrorizing black people for centuries
Neil is politically correct.
Even with science, he will also tell you to your face that the gov has never lied about anything.
I am shocked by your surprise.
Coleman you NEED to get Thomas Sowell!
He did say he'd stopped doing interviews at a certain point. Although Dave Rubin managed to get him. It sounded like it took a lot of persuading though, and Dave had to go to where he was.
@@garywood97 Coleman is so much more insightful than Rubin, such a shame.
Harry Yeah Rubin is a fucking lightweight and such a dork to boot. Poor Sowell is 90 years old but people won’t leave him alone bc he’s one of the most brilliant and articulate conservatives on the planet, let alone black conservatives. He’s like the right’s version of Noam Chomsky. The left won’t leave that dude alone and he’s probably 5 years younger than Sowell. What’s funny is that Sowell used to be a Marxist like Chomsky (though Chomsky calls himself an anarcho syndicalist it’s basically communism) but Sowell has the brains/common sense to evolve into reality but Chomsky stayed firmly up his own as as all leftists are.
@@Harry-sf9sc It's not a competition, they both have their merits.
Sowell will do interviews when he releases new books so he has a great shot now with his new book about Charter Schools is out!!
I feel like Coleman kept asking questions and neil kept going off on tangents that literally had nothing to do with the question and avoided the questions to be honest whether or not purposefully. Good job tho coleman. Ur doing awesome lately. Really really
tony thomas He’s totally evasive on the atheism question also. The guy is kinda an assclown. He’s notorious for having bad takes on Twitter.
It's just not his thing. He's a scientist.
He responded to the questions and answered them, he's just bad at tying it all together into a concise statement. I found myself unsure at times of what exactly he was saying until a minute later into his response he'd make an additional point, but it still had to be inferred rather than him clearly state the connection.
I suspect that Neil avoids to go in depth with the issues is because we may misunderstand his scientific perspectives. Keep in mind that people can turn anything he says into something controversial. While there's a time to say and stand by one's word, I think he is wise not to get too deep at this time given that there's still so much raw emotions in the air.
@@Zdeno33 Tyson doesn't do concise. He's a blowhard.
Can't wait to see it!
Coleman I know you must get a lot of flack these days, and I wanted to tell you that no matter what anyone says you are a thoughtful, careful and compassionate person. I appreciate your insights and I hope you will be acknowledged as one of the most outstanding young individuals of the 21s century.
Keep doing your thang Coleman. In a world of Chaos, you are one of the few sensible ones left.
I don’t know why you would expect we can get the number of unjustified killings by cops to be zero when we can’t do that for regular citizens.
I don't think coleman expects that. Infact doesn't he usually make arguments against thinking that.
Aweis Kassim Tyson said that.
If cops didn't make terrible mistakes it would make them the only profession that doesn't make terrible mistakes.
All these conversations need to be talking about compliance. If one year nobody resisted arrest the number would drop off a cliff....maybe even 0 or at least a statistical 0.
Also if nobody resisted arrest if a person is killed everyone can likely agree the cop has committed a crime. The way it is now ... I know thousands and thousands of people every year try to fight police to the death rather than being arrested, when I know that and I hear "zero" my eyes glaze over. We're not dealing with reality here.
Yea, if regular people commit murder, why shouldn't cops murder people too!? What a great point.
I felt Coleman seemed intimated by this brilliant man and did not ask difficult questions. Which I would totally understand as Neil is one the best astrophysicist alive and my favorite . I love and respect you Sir.
I therefore was sad to see Neil almost dismissing the statistics because of his personal experiences and give in to feelings. He also failed to condemn the obvious ugliness that is going on today. But even scientific community is so woke that even he would be cancelled if he said something positive about police at all.
Have you ever thought that statistics is the thing Neal is dealing with.
Yeah even with interview with shapiro, he got off the hook. The usual ben wouldve demolished him, but decided not to go after him. Why is that?
@@sampark5004well, science is inherently republican. So he didn't want to kill his own guy.
Think harder.
Communists think from the heart and f*** up ,
Capitalism may feel inhumane ,but it has been the best system for wealth and power inequality
Because it is based on scientific principles
I'm a white girl and I've been stopped for stupid reasons, dealt with jerk cops/nice cops, and do get tickets when I speed. Like when I was driving on my way home from college, I had to drive like 6 hours and stopped on the side of the road for like 5 minutes out of traffic because I was lost. A cop came behind me and looked into my car with a flashlight and also took my DL information! Like this kind of thing happens to every kind of person.
Yea but it's pretty engrained in cops behaviour to treat black people differently. They get pulled over far more often. Those be the facts...
@@b9y Don't think they are pulled over more often, because how could a cop tell the age or sex of somebody when they are driving a car. Its not exactly easy to see that if you're a cop parked somewhere and a car speeds by or if you come up behind someone. They are arrested more often because they commit more crimes.
I'd say cops treat young people a little shittier than most. When I was 18 I was breathalyzed even though I was in the backseat. Barely drunk. Got a charge and had to do an alcohol awareness course. I've been arrested for no reason before. Because my friend was belligerent and I was telling him to shut up. Both got put in jail. Cops just need better training in how to deal with intense confrontations with people. For the peoples good and their own good. Jocko Willink has good suggestions on that on his appearance with Joe rogan
@@PallahDaOracle I don't know if this is falling on deaf ears, but black and latinos are probably stopped more often in general. Please take a look at this Stanford study examining traffic stops in North Carolina. news.stanford.edu/2016/06/28/stanford-researchers-develop-new-statistical-test-shows-racial-profiling-police-traffic-stops/
Additionally AA were less likely to be stopped at night in a different study.
www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1
And you don't think anything should be done about it? You just want blacks to shut it. You don't even seen to be bothered you were harassed Becky...
@@PallahDaOracle
To question how cops could tell the race of someone driving yet say that " cops treat young people a little shittier than most. " sounds pretty asinine. You could explicitly tell the race of someone driving in a car much faster than you could tell the age.
There have been countless studies showing police bias and over policing of minorities, particularly in getting pulled over. I'm glad a commenter already provided you with a study, because the University of Michigan also produced a study on police bias when it comes to race.
Neil's family's how to survive encounters with the police lessons, are universal. They aren't race specific. That's how you're SUPPOSED to behave when police pull you over in a society full of gun toting nuts. By the way, I've been pulled over for no reason and demeaned several times in my youth. Once with a fellow University student, driving a volvo in city traffic, in the afternoon. We were made to get out of the car, sit on the curb, take our shoes and socks off, frisked, and the car was torn apart. Eventually they told us to go. No explanation. We're both whitey's:) My friend was blonde if that matters. One of many stories. I don't know why they happened, but yes, people of all shades have these stories
Cop must have had a quota... I'd bet quotas result in all types of stereotyping and profilings...
@@ShadowLord2396 We know they've always had quotas, and sure, that would help meet them. Still, we've all been there. My mother's been pulled over for doing 3 miles over the speed limit, to help meet a quota.
PS. I'm not saying that the cops themselves aren't some of the gun toting nuts as well. I've never been a criminal, but I've always been afraid of cops. You don't antagonize them. Shouldn't be that way, but it is. Everyone knows that.
I’ve been pulled over with loaded weapons in my back seat. Doubt Neil could have gotten away with that. My parents never told me how to interact with cops.
@@josesbox9555 You got away with that? Did you tell them you had loaded weapons in your backseat(which is illegal)? Your parents never told you how to interact with police? Huh? Where the hell are you from?
I think at 41:25 Neil misses the crux of the problem of rioting over the actions of one police officer. Neil seems to think that there should never *_ever_* be a cruel, fatal act by a police officer. The fact is, out of the thousands of police officers and the thousands of interactions with the public, some of those officers are going to go on the job angry at their wife, or intoxicated, or perhaps even suffering from the onset of undiagnosed bipolar. That's the problem with mass rioting and protest over the actions of one cop when compared to protests over biased laws or some blatantly unfair police regulations.
A few minutes later Tyson talks of heart surgeons. As though heart surgeons can't get away with crazy behavior. He's right, but crazy surgeons _are_ going to exist and they will be prosecuted or at least sued for malpractice. But the point is; they do exist and that behavior will not cause a massive riot even if it were done in the public and caught on video.
I'm surprised Tyson doesn't understand what you describe.
Aren't you glossing over NDT's further analogy of the airline industry having people who keep things in line? Its pretty clear from the history of cops that bad cops go unchecked, which means riots are the final outlet for people. Coleman seems to think that even with the checks riots would still happen, because BLM pushes a narrative. NDT seems to think that with checks the riots would have less energy.
@@CrazyMTGplayer There are thousands of cops and thousands of interactions with the public. If you would, tell me how to reach a point where there are _never_ any incidents of cops being too aggressive, even to where someone dies. How can that point be attained? It's not about making things better. "Better" is not good enough. "Better" is not what Tyson demands. I go on the principle that no matter what the field of human endeavor there will be people who are capable of failure. That would include policing.
@@WhtetstoneFlunky again the analogy is whether or not we can actually hold people accountable for these mistakes. Right now the answer seems to be maybe but generally no? If we can assume people will be punished maybe people won't look to rioting. People are going to fail, but those failures should lead to accountability.
NDT thinks that if we have only “good” and not obviously racist or biased cops the problem will be solved?
Agree with Coleman that it’s much easier to eliminate instances like George Floyd or Tony Timpa (knee on neck). But mistakes are bound to happen. Every situation is unpredictable and Coleman is 100% right about this being a big gun country and so police are on higher alert.
This is not purely a race issue.
I think Coleman was softer than usual while still getting his point across. I understand, there’s something about NDT that is so likable and makes you want to be on his good side...even if you disagree.
Police killing unarmed people and defending themselves like a gang of tyrants is not an issue of one or another individual's racism. It's but one tentacle of an immense systemic rot that demands profound and uncompromising reform if not dismantlement and replacement. Of course with our nation's history and present economic state, a lengthy exposition of racism is inseparable from any discussion of crime. Nevertheless, you're right, and the fact that people on my side of the debate cannot even think through your comment's point without breaking into hysterics is another indication that history will never retch up a utopia.
Random Guy Liberal rhetoric is easy on the sidelines. Dismantle and defunding the police is a knee jerk reaction proposal to which any reasonable mind would never agree. If police needs reform, do the black community have a responsibility of their own for cultural examination too? I’m Asian and black community’s unique culture is something to which I have difficulty relating.
Random Guy respectfully can I ask what systemic rot you feel there is in the US? Do you believe GF’s death was racially motivated? a. On a personal level or b. On a systemic level and why this might be? Do you believe the training police get is adequate in restraint and in scenario training? Do they over react? If yes is this because they are full of anxiety or are they power tripping? Do you believe crime is connected to racism (causation) or do we deal with criminals differently based on their race. Or is it both? Do different racial groups commit different types of crime? If the answer is yes is this based on a critical race theory model where it can be explained due to the equity of power if your skin is white? Is poverty more a link to crime profiles rather than skin colour?
Just to be clear I’m British, guns don’t come into it. We don’t have as many deaths in custody or during arrests. I believe we must accept slavery was a systemic issue. Abolition still lead to segregation still systemic. But from all of the civil rights laws and movement the systemic element becomes removed. The rot is that the belief in a victim mentality and the belief of superiority and racist tendencies is still there in some citizens background beliefs. The rot is slowly getting smaller and as each new generation is born the racism reduces and the victim/inferiority complex also reduces. Unfortunately like the Rodney king example some horrible racists are going to get into uniform. You mention reform deep rooted. How will this remove this stop despicable acts of people in uniform. The zimbado effect and the Stamford county jail experiment shows that people will power trip, people will act in complicity and will abdicate responsibility for their actions onto the uniform and system. I know there’s lots here to digest. I just wondered your thoughts on these questions I have based on your perspective.
But are we saying racism doesn't exist in policing at a notable rate?
m j that’s why I asked the questions to try to understand his perspective.
Haven't listened yet but congrats to Coleman for catching another big fish after Steve Pinker and others. Your voice and ideas deserve a large audience and are a valuable corrective to confusion and wrong-headedness in the national conversation.
Hughes seems to be the more educated person in this conversation in regards to the subject although Tyson has more life experiences. Hughes was being more scientific.
I don’t think that’s quite accurate. To me it’s more accurate to say that Hughes has the greater command of statistical information (the data), while Tyson focuses more on the scientific process and on the (independent of race) Big Picture.
@@georgehouk4786 You're joking....Neil is totally wrapped up in the opportunity to finally be a BLACK man INSTEAD of a scientist, as he plays the race card in assuming that all these deaths can be prevented by screening out racists and neonazis and guy with tattoos or who can be heard using the N-word of the F-word in Bars - whom he expects fellow cops to Rat Out. He directly contradicts Coleman's view which is that Racial Prejudice is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain all or even most of these deaths. The guy that shot Philando Castile was not a racist. He was a scared of a Moron who perennially drove around smoking dope with a six year old child in the car, a moron who continually broke the laws and got tickets, whether for moving violations or not bothering to have insurance. A moron who was SO stoned that he failed to comprehend that he was doing exactly what the cop was SCREAMING at him NOT TO DO. IT's called INTOXICATION for a reason. That's why he had so many tickets - he kept failing to NOTICE things like traffic signs and lights...and forgetting to follow THE RULES of the road. Walter Scott, mind you, was MURDERED in cold blood, while running away. I'm willing to consider some sort of bias in that happening, but Alton Sterling deserved to be shot, as he reached for his gun after TWO cops could not restrain him sufficiently to search him. I would have shot Sterling full of plain anger for him risking my live, my partner's like, and the lives of bystanders by his refusal to comply with legal commands....without race having a damn thing to do with it. Coleman is the one being more objective here. I will admit that Neil is correct, that we need to have more intensive independent inquiries into these incidents, where the issue of Racism WOULD be ruled out in most of the cases, but not if biased community BLM members have their way.
@@socialbettors966 I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to pause for a moment and give thanks for the great contributions of the Black community to our society. Their peaceful and generous nature makes them ideal neighbors, lending testimony to their exceptional family values and parenting skills, unrivaled by any other culture. Their commitment to academic excellence enriches our schools and serves as an example to all who hope to achieve prominence as a people. Real estate values are fueled by the mix of African Americans into an area, due to their caring and respectful nature in these communities, an example of all they have achieved through their enthusiasm for self- improvement by hard work and a self-reliant can-do nature. Without their industrious and creative drive, we would be poorer as a nation. ruclips.net/video/ghRO2jvdZvo/видео.html
@@georgehouk4786 Coleman didnt even use his full arsenal of arguments he usually uses. Probably due to the respect he has for Tyson.
😳Tyson is a scientist. And then there’s that.
Hey smart science guy it does happen to everyone that drives often. I’m a white guy in Canada that drives during a work day. Very good driving record. Pulled over during work and off work. So many times in 24 years I don’t count anymore.
Same experience here.
Something Neil misses is the fact that every time a white person is pulled over, they think it is because they did something wrong. Every time a black person is pulled over, they think it's racism.
There is no purer demonstration of a confirmation bias.
Neil or another black race baiter would say that is because racism is so prevalent.
But then you have to look at actual statistics for people being pulled over, *not* anecdotes. Because all he did is prove that anecdotal evidence from the black community is skewed.
I know loads of black people who do the same thing... Any little thing happens... Racism! I know black people from Canada who don't think that and they don't freak out every ten seconds about racism... Lo and behold, they seldom encounter racism...
Nothing more than a confirmation bias.
I stopped getting pulled over when i cut my hair short. I didnt look like a stoner anymore. And i got older. Cop go after what will get a ticket o
During the late sixties, I was pulled over more than once for simply being a teenage girl. The cops apparently wanted to see what my girlfriends and I were up to or just wanted to flirt. In the early seventies, having a guy with long hair in my car enhanced the likelikhood of my being pulled over for no reason or a trivial excuse of a reason. By the way, my friends and I were white.
By no means am I saying that racist cops don’t exist. I just don’t believe it is a wide spread issue anymore.
Same here. Every time the police have stopped or questioned me is because my car or my behaviour was setting off a signal that they wanted to ask about. It’s NOT racism.
I really loved this interview as I'm a big admirer of NDT but I also agree with Coleman on his assessment of the facts vs perceptions. Despite some of the criticism of NDT in the comments, I thought he actually did a fantastic job pushing back against the statistics, and he did it with just the right amount of passion without coming across as overbearing or illogical. When he said it doesn't matter how small the percentage is when the killings are so horrific, I was moved. He also threw a bit of shade when he criticized looking at things "philosophically and with logic," and that despite being a scientist he also lives in the real world. So, yeah he pulled me and I found myself nodding my head and saying, "Yeah, he has a great point." Then, I remembered this tweet of his after the El Paso shooting last year:
"In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.
On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…
500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun
Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data."
Of course, Neil had to pull back and apologize for this because it was a bit tone-deaf. Yet, when he says in this interview that small percentages don't matter when the killings are so horrific, he's guilty of the same thing he accused everyone else of last year. To be fair, it's quite possible that he learned from that mistake and listened to the criticisms. So, now he's bringing those lessons to this discussion. But I don't think people like Coleman should be rebuked when their emotions "respond more to data than to spectacle." In times like these ESPECIALLY, we need more logic and philosophical discourse, not less.
I was thinking the same thing. He doesn't want to be chastised by the court of public opinion again.
Yeah I liked the push back from Neil regarding the "real world" versus philosophy concept. He also seems to have genuinely understood how his take on the mass shooting was tone deaf and perfectly articulated his new understanding here. I'm impressed as usual from NDT.
@@oourdumb sir you are actually wrong If you don't factor in the emotional part of this argument. NDT learned that logic is never gonna win the masses alone because their perception is actually reality for them. That's why scientist don't have as much power as they should cause they don't understand that people are not logical, you have to be able to win them emotionally. For communities that FEAR the cops for historical reasons or whatever, every time they see one of those mistakes, their fear is reaffirmed, the conditioning is going deeper. Especially when they see no cops going to jail. So Mr Coleman points may be true and logical but if you don't show that when bad things happen you genuinely try to get to the bottom of it so it does not happen again, like the FAA does, the perception is you don't care and that feeds the paranoia even more. You can win the battle but lose the war.
Coleman is totally cool when Tyson goes on his trips.
We have data on police stops. I’m surprised a scientist would rely on anecdotal evidence instead of addressing the data directly.
yes.... and the data shows that black people in america are dissproportionally stopped when compared to white people
@@mirrekhan1607 yes...And the data also shows the best predictors of interactions with police are predicated on family income/class *not* race.
That's why the best way to help black people/neighborhoods is through education; fix the income and you fix the "racism" issue.
@@newbooksmell4163 access to better education is general the best way to fix most problems. But education is based on property taxes, and I think it is naive to say that there Isent a massive racial component in the way property taxes are instantiated in the USA as of now...given...you know... The very very recent history of redlining. Also I thinks it is very hard to separate out race from class in the USA.
@@mirrekhan1607 But stopped by black cops too. Obviously it's painful and should be redressed but stopping those most likely is entirely logical.
@@blackmore4 well, as far as I am aware the dats indicates that black people are stopped more than the rate at which the comitt crime, and white are stopped less at the rate at which they commit crime. On a side note (and I am not claiming that this is your sentiment) but it is funny to me that people who are all about the individual being the primary unit of analysis are suddenly people who argue that black individuals being stopped more due to their group belonging. Moreover, I am not sure it's the case that it is logical (see division and composition fallacy)
On the bad Doctors question, the UK had Harold Shipman who murdered patients for years. You never get all the bad ones out, but you can reduce them.
I was quite disappointed by Tyson's commentary in his latest article and this interview essentially cements that disappointment with his apparent clear decision to stop thinking logically when it suits him and instead simply "think" emotionally and idealistically about these fraught issues. I know Tyson is a "big name" and quite a "get" for the show and that Hughes is just at the outset of a hopefully long and storied career, but I'd like to see him push his guests more and be more confident in asserting his own stances in a discussion.
What wasn't logical about his argument?
This is just funny, he was logical to me. Why do you say he was emotional and idealistic? And furthermore what is wrong with being emotional? last l checked it is a human trait and it will come to the fore when dealing with such, as you put it 'fraught' issues. You can convey a logical point with emotion as well, or are just robots who just chew through data without any emotion.
@@themightyquyn practically all of it. Though now that I see the comments are being flooded by his braindead cockhungry acolytes I'm not going to bother wasting my time detailing further.
As a non-White he is going to follow his racial interests. If you understand race, you'll understand what causes this. Only Europeans are sick enough to not follow their racial interests: NoWhiteGuilt.org
Revival Nkomo A statement like “we need zero people with these prejudices in law enforcement” seems to come from an emotionalist perspective. It’s absolute, kind of like how Fox News would tend to get angry about lenient judges in the early 2000s, arguing for stricter minimum sentencing with emotional ploys like “what if it was your daughter?!” Yes, George Floyd is an egregious case, but some cases will be more gray.
Coleman, I seriously value your ability to listen and your sense of patience. Your ability to be "radically" empathetic while maintaining a zoomed out perspective to look at objective reality is something to be admired. Although I have found Neil deGrasse Tyson to be quite arrogant in a number of his interviews I've watched, your patience and respect towards him are honorable and it shows that you care to hear a multitude of perspectives and opinions.
I did not expect to hear the words "I don't care what the percent is" uttered by a supposedly empirical astrophysicist. Given the emotional nature of this topic (for some people), I can understand why Coleman didn't push back, but it would have been beneficial to dig deeper. Glenn Loury from Blogging Heads would make for a great interlocutor with Tyson.
it is a good example of why emotions should not dictate action, as it is irrational. E.g. gun laws should not be made after mass shootings etc.
@@snuffeldjuret 'should' - but in the real world emotions are always tied to most of our decision making as human, esp law making. There is a reason the field of retoric exist.
@@snuffeldjuret America's gun culture is one of the reasons the police is so militarized, Coleman said in another video. Do you agree?
@@dodec8449 Hm, I would suppose so. Do I have any reason to not?
@@snuffeldjuret ok
To quote the great Thomas Sowell "Intellect is not wisdom" @NDT. Well done Coleman!
"No all black musicals anymore." Hmm, I seem to remember an exceptionally successful musical in which blacks were cast as white historical figures. Great discussion nevertheless.
Well for 1 thing who would be allowed to give critical review of something "Black" we can't even say black people committing crimes while pretending to protest is wrong. 2nd how do you think an all white "Roots" would go over?
They weren’t *all black* though
@Rebecca Mattis I got a tan from sitting in my garden during lockdown. If I died my hair black, I could easily pass for an Indian or an Arab. Albeit in a slightly Peter Sellers kind of way. I can sing too. D'you reckon I've got a chance of being cast?
I feel like you don't understand what "ALL black musical" actually means.
Insightful,thoughtful and respectful... It doesn’t get any better.I’ve been binge watching your episodes since I ran into them..And wondering why I have heard this earlier.. keep doing great work.
His speaking style is straight up Sam Harris at the beginning.
Kevin Savo - That's not really a compliment to him, unfortunately.
@@wiseonwords his way of speaking is very similar to Harris's
Ikr. Dude is literally black Sam Harris.
He's smart to take lessons from Sam Harris, he's very successful in this space, and is wonderful to listen to
Good person to emulate ;)
Yes, we have stories and we don’t speak of them. I’ve been pulled over so many times for seemingly such stupid reasons and then dragged along to perform a dog and pony show for the cops. I think there is definitely discrimination out there but we also know for a fact that you will find anything you’re looking for due to the way our brains are designed to find patterns we’re looking for. For that reason we must rely solely on statistics and not anecdotes when trying to identify rates of discrimination.
We should! Though something tells me people's tune will change once they realize that the data fully supports the claim that racism is very much prevalent in the criminal justice system.
www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/opinions/systemic-racism-police-evidence-criminal-justice-system/
I love NDT but when he justified actions based on “feelings” he really lost me. Bad guys have feelings too. Data doesn’t.
usaryry it seems that Neil has become his worst enemy, he is now Neil Nye the science guy
KReGaDeTH yes. It was hard to watch
I guess it's not what he was saying. I think, but that's my opinion, that he meant that even though a single eventi may count only for 1 in a statistical analysis, the way it impacts on people oversteps that, because people won't see the beating of a man as one incident among a huge number of non problematic cases, but will see that as something unacceptable, which is obvious and natural.
Due to the respect to Coleman Hughes I managed to finish 2/3 of the interview while playing mobile game.
I was once so in love with Niel 😭
You can still like him. He's just human. He has foibles and bias just as the rest of us do. He is still a great mind in the STEM world. Why stop looking up to him on that front just because of disagreement with his view in the social sciences?
Not that race couldn't have been a factor, but I believe the instances of Neil getting pulled over by the cops could have more to do with the vehicle that he was driving, than the color of his skin. I've experienced this myself with having driven an 18 year old Honda Civic during my college and high school years. I've noticed that the cops would tail me and pull me over much more often for what would turn out to be a small violation (no blinker when changing lanes, 2-5 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc.), when driving that old Honda Civic. But after leasing a new Volkswagen SUV, I haven't nearly been tailed by cops as much as I used to be. Maybe this has more to do with perceived socioeconomic status, than it does race? Since we're talking about racial bias, just for reference, I'm a white male.
@tony thomas I'm not saying that race couldn't have been a factor, I just think we're oversimplifying an issue involving multiple variables. I'd love to take a look at your data/research. Could you share your sources with us?
I’m from Jamaica also and what’s interesting to me is how the heightened perception of Police brutality become when one gets to the USA . I say this because citizens are 10 times more likely to die from law enforcers in Jamaica (according to indecom statistics ) . Which suggests to me some interesting latent phenomena is at play here . This statement is in no way denying any contribution of racism or bias to the problem .
I experienced the same thing when I had an old civic myself.
We knew you were a white male when you said you drove an 18 year old Honda Civic
@tony thomas Sometimes people match police descriptions because said descriptions are often very limited like a black male in a blue car or a white dude in a dark hoodie. Given the distribution of crime among races in USA, would it be possible that successful black men are stopped more often because they match those superficial descriptions more often? I'm not saying that's the only factor, but wondering how important it is.
Retir3d LEO here,
@29:32
Coleman: "I agree that many people don't realize how frustrating it is to be falsely stereotyped"....
As a retired police officer, I can tell you, I absolutely know how it feels to be falsely stereotyped, as I've had to listen to those stereotypes in this interview and all over the media for the past several weeks about how "I'm a racist" and an evil person because I wore a uniform and a badge, when all I ever did was serve my community with honor and respect.
You know what else I know?
I know what it feels like to have to wait for the line at Circle K to completely finish before being able to get in line myself to buy something, because somebody may stick a gun to the back of my head and pull the trigger for being an officer.
Do you realize how often police get falsely accused of racism with false complaints filed against them? It happens constantly.
I also find your statement problematic, when you say "you agree that police are more likely to rough up a black suspect," that is patently false and there is no data to support that whatsoever.
In fact, scientific studies at various universities have proven the opposite to be true.
I am absolutely sick and tired of the hard data being ignored in favor of this false narrative simply because it supports the emotional bias that people want to believe to be true.
In fact,
I went on Stefan molyneux's show with a friend of mine to talk about the truth regarding these claims, only to have RUclips deletes Stefan's channel.
You can see it here
www.bitchute.com/video/QpGKHFFnskoM/
Coleman could easily dismantle every single counter point Neil makes, but he doesn't. Purposefully holds back. Interesting.
Apparently you've never seen Neil on Joe Rogan. Neil is a juggernaut with his point of view. Coleman has to keep the episode to a certain size, haha.
counter point? he's not saying anything untrue. LOL.
You think this conversation is straight forward? racism exists in it's purest form. Majority group privilledge. In india that works for the brahmin against the darlits sure it's worse than america but every country has racism (tribalism) in group preferences. That's where we are.
Coleman is a gentleman and respectful of a man who has been where he will probably never go.
@Jen not roast, but I would have liked to see Coleman challenge Neil a little more. But I don't think that would be possible with how passionate Neil gets when talking on this
Coleman you're are one of my favorite young minds of the current age. I know you were showing major respect for Mr. DeGrasse in allowing him to speak on his countless experiences. Although much of what he said was anecdotal it still was his experiences. I'm a black male in the Gen X era so I can relate to much of what Mr. DeGrasse is saying but I can also so the progress and improvements that have been made. Also I understand that numbers/stats are very important but the eye test shouldn't be taking for granted Mr. Coleman.
Why does the "philosophical mind" seem to be able to travel across topics, but the "scientific mind" seems so lost outside of it's specialty? I like NDT, but pretty unimpressed with his ability to directly engage the questions Coleman asked.
Because philosophy (the analytic sort taught here in America) is a toolset for general problem solving, whereas the scientist is a domain-specific expert. As a philosophy graduate (and from Columbia no less), Coleman is well-schooled in logical fallacies and motivated reasoning. If you've ever known or worked with actual students of analytic philosophy, they tend to go out of their way to combat their own biases and guard against sloppy thinking. They are especially wary of emotional appeals. Of course, they are not perfect but meta-cognition is a normal part of everyday life.
NdGT really isn't a very much a scientist at all.
I got the same sense. I have a lot of respect for mr Tyson, but his ability to think critically and logically in this interview was not on display. Conclusion: scientists are human. We're all looking for truth, and we all hit speed bumps getting there.
NDT can’t keep up with Coleman. In comparison to McWhorter and Loury, NDT is an intellectual lightweight. Plus He’s also a misninformation agent.
I having a problem with Tyson criticizing cops about how they restrain people. Have they ever restrained anybody? The cops deal with the worst people on the planet. Soilders get treated for ptsd when coming home from war. Are the cops not at war?
Overall a good interview. I just wish Coleman would have corrected NDT on his misunderstanding of the statistics on deadly shootings
Timestamp plz: What's the misunderstanding
@@marleyjanim5033 pretty sure there wasn't one. My theory is there's just a lot of bored culture wars spectators on youtube that wanted more intellectual bloodsport and less productive dialogue.
@@metalstarj an honest look at the statistics has to be a part of any productive dialogue.
I drive at night for work. While not in a normally marked delivery vehicle. I get stopped, by police, during drunk thirty hours, I would say monthly. I don't blame racism, I blame drunks.
So instead of blaming cops, blame the criminals who cops, are trying to stop.
Me too... multiple times going into work and would be late fir my shift. I don’t know if my boss believed me at first but I got a letter from my manager on company letterhead displaying my work schedule. Both the cop and my boss seemed surprised when the cop called and the pathologist verified that i did work at the hospital and this was my schedule.
These are exactly the type of conversations we need right now. Keep up the good work!
The Taxi Cab barometer is highly problematic. NY City was far less safe in the 80’s thru mid 90’s. Crime was rampant. If heading towards a more dangerous area, it is understandable why a cab might be less likely to pick up that passenger. It is also more likely a driver could be stiffed their fare.
It’s totally understandable to you in this moment from the comfort of your home. It’s upsetting to those who experienced it. I hope that’s understandable as well!
@@calikeisha365 that can go both ways ... much of my family came and still live in Brooklyn in a ghetto neighborhood... it was very scary to be a white person there...
And what ethnicity were the cab drivers?
@@priscillastilwell2972 Its true there used to be way more white cab drivers whereas there are none today
At least it would then be a good indicator of the safehood of various neighbourhoods in NYC. But without knowing the background, I am curious how NDT set this up. Is he actually collecting data since the 70ies by noting down literally every taxi experience (positive and negative) in order to get to the percentages he gets? That'd be very interesting if he did
Conversations with Coleman is a great discovery for me. It's an entertaining way to understand a little bit more what´s going on in the US. Thank you Mr. Hughes and cheers from Germany.
Coleman, you did very well. I think you slipped a bit when you were building the counter of "it isn't possible to eliminate police mishaps entirely" when you accidentally walked into the idea that magnification is the critical factor there. Magnification will happen, but that's not the reason that it's not practical to require a total elimination.
The reason is actually what Neil said. We can always keep moving forward and we can continue to refine and there are behaviors that should be zero tolerance... But the issue is still about human behavior and it just cannot become perfectly predictable.
This means that we can do better and we can improve things, but it's a strong argument against the "defund the police" movement.
Still, that was only a minor slip in otherwise excellent argumentation.
Neil on the other hand showed a ton of signs of bad argumentation. Emotional arguments, oversimplification, even bad data.... Not your finest hour Neil. And I'm a fan.
Coleman, thanks for bringing a refreshingly nuanced and evidence based perspective to polarizing issues such as systemic racism, police brutality, etc. You’ve started me down a rabbit hole of expanding my sources of influence, helping me to have a more nuanced perspective and assessing what reforms should actually happen to progress America. I’d love to hear a conversation with Killer Mike, another voice and personality I have profound respect for.
i had higher hopes for this conversation
Me too. Really disappointing, at least for me.
I'm not sure why people did, Neil is good on physics, on almost everything else he sounds like a first year university student struggling to sound deep, at least to my ear.
@@roncarv1121 yeah, I'm with you, I did not have very high hopes for this being fruitful.
I had higher hopes particularly for Neil. Coleman is fine.
Agreed, he totally went to anecdote and didn't even directly answer Coleman's questions a few times. His head must be in space.
More of this... Intelligent conversations where no one is trying to stroke the others ego. This hour of purely authentic dialogue has taught me more than any other hour on these topics. Coleman, thank you for all you do - you are truly inspirational my friend.
beautifully respectful, honest, and intelligent dialogue
Despite introducing statistics into the conversation with the taxi story, I feel that Dr. Tyson did not quite grasp the implications of the statistics you brought to the table afterward. Instead he seemed to defer to feelings, almost becoming defensive. You can almost sense the tonal shift. I am sure his time is limited as it is, and I could understand not pushing back on any particular issue at the time, but hopefully he had the time to digest the information. I believe you were the professor in this exchange, Coleman.
What "push back" would have been needed by Coleman here? There was literally NOTHING they disagreed on in any fundamental way. Maybe small nuances but the larger points were well subscribed by both. I saw it completely the opposite I guess: Coleman is the new up and coming young genius, and Tyson is the elder-statesman who brought FAR more experience and wisdom to the table.
Coleman you seem to be working hard to be object. It's difficult to stay objective but I'm hoping that you don't let the left or right bias you.
Neal, Just for reference, as a white male my life experiences with police.
When I was in high school, after a CYO dance outside I saw 2 police purposefully hit a white guy called Fat Frank with the police car sending him sprawling he was able to get up.
Also in high school people were saying a tough white guy from the school died in police custody when the police pushed him down the stairs.
My brother and I were once driving around the URI campus when I was in college and an officer pulled us over and kept us there for a couple of hours harassing us. He later let us go,telling us we fit a description of people breaking in in to dorm rooms. My brother was older and wanted me to complain because I was driving and lived there, I didn''t though.
I was at a party when in college and the friend I rode to the party with drank too much. I told him to let me drive home but he wouldn't listen, so I drove my other friend home, I had had less to drink. My friend drove into the bushes. As I drove by the accident, the police pulled me over and when I rolled down the window the officer reached in with his big flashlight and tapped me under the chin a little too hard. He did let us go though.
I've gotten tickets over the years due to driving mistakes and losing track of my speed and the speed limits, mostly the officers have been unfriendly but they just write the ticket and let me go.
...It was written that the divine Revelation would surprise the world; like the surprise caused by a thief at night; in the divine truth nobody is exclusive; they are all my children; more, the one who being first in seeing, and hearing does not give importance to the divine Revelation, that son is not first before the divine Father; it is not because of its own indifference; although opportunity had to be; this results in a crying and gnashing of teeth; then, the divine love attraction between spirit and that which is divine is the most fascinating to human feeling; everyone wants to be saved; but almost nobody conquers his own salvation; only when they see, they believe; not seeing, it's not worth finding out; such, add millions in your world; the fate of these spirits, are the worlds of indifference; sad philosophy; that he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven; there they enter, the humble; that in the silence of their own sufferings, they always had a smile in bloom; that having lived a lifetime of exploitation, they were happy; never a complaint; they were as they are the children. - I will happen to explain to you the divine origin of the solar number: all number, is before all the world; that is to say that every number is first, feeling; and before feeling is a divine mandate, in solar suspension; that is to say, he waits in his library for theBedrío; this wait can be eternal; for it works in itself, in celestial weather; every number, has a divine record; that goes back to distant galaxies; every number is a living philosophy; every number is before the creature that thinks it; all numeral calculus is a divine instantaneous alliance of numeral cherubim; every number is first in life; for without the number, there would be no life; for life, is a divine calculation, of other lives, and of other numbers; and both are divine product of the divine Ball of living fire; there are all the causes; the known and unknown; to try to penetrate beyond the respective galactic number, it is like trying to penetrate, in the divine freedom of theBedrío of the divine Father Jehovah; all planetary knowledge has its limit; it is subject to its own hierarchy; it can not go further; for every number with which their divine alliances arose, bring within themselves, their own limitation; they are allied destinations, in the same moment of the celestial time; and having traveled unprecedented distances, they are specified in a single solar line; that is, they mature in a transfer to material life; this transfer includes a momentary oblivion, in every spirit; of the worlds of the flesh; if it were not so, human life would not be a test; it would not be a spiritual progress; then, everything would be given to him; no effort would cost him; there would be no merit in anything; Merit is the cause of a difficulty; in overcoming this, there is the triumph of the spirit; the divine parable explains it: You will earn your bread, with the sweat of your forehead; pity that men have falsified this; they took out the money and exploited their brothers; no demon that nourished in life, this philosophy, Enter the Kingdom of Heaven; will be forgotten, in human happiness.- Alpha and Omega DIVINE ORIGIN OF THE SOLAR NUMBER; HOW THE DIVINE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION WAS DONE, TO CREATE THE EARTH; YOUR GALACTIC NUMBER; HIS DIVINE SPIRITUAL HIERARCHY BETWEEN THE WORLDS OF THE FLESH.-
2017 IN THE THINKING EXPANSIVE UNIVERSE, THERE ARE INFINITE INHABITED PLANETS; OTHERS WERE AND OTHERS WERE; THE WORLD OF TRIALS WILL SEE SUCH CREATURES ON SOLAR TELEVISION; WHICH IS THE SAME BOOK OF LIFE, OF THE DIVINE GOSPEL OF FATHER JEHOVAH; IN FRONT OF THIS COLOSSAL TELEVISION, MILLIONS OF MATERIALIST UNBELIEVERS WILL BE FILLED WITH SHAME; THOSE WHO LIMIT THE DIVINE POWER OF GOD, ALWAYS LOSE IN THEIR DIVINE PLANETARY JUDGMENTS; IT IS MORE LIKELY FOR ONE WHO DID NOT DENY THEM IN THE TRIALS OF LIFE, TO VISIT THE FAR WORLDS OF SPACE; THAT ONE WHO DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEM TO VISIT THEM.- 7 Seals = REVOLUTION in The Divine Kingdom of HEAVENS. The one above is the same as the one below. ScienceCeleste com AlfayOmega com .pe My New Name: Alpha Omega Alian = Jehovah The Most High, The Almighty, The Eternal Father. Jesus Christ = Mohammed MSTO = MASTER = CHRIST Revelation chapter 3:12, 19:12, The Antichrist and the False Prophet and the Spirit of Error 1 John chapter 4.
@@angelmediadorentrenosotros7579 dude no one is going to read whatever nonsense this is. If you want to post some religious BS at least make a short and sweet point. This Is just obnoxious to scroll through
I think alot of this location based and has little to do with race. I get historical segregation and such has played a part but it isnt the same issue today as it was. Out of control police can and do mess with people of all colors
Many of us have a cop story or two (I do also) but what Niel is talking about is more than that. As a white guy ive been pulled over. I have a lot of white friends and they've been pulled over. But these testimonials from black people - being pulled over for driving a "suspicious vehicle," and then being *searched*, i've actually never heard of that happening to a law abiding white person and I actually do feel fairly confident inferring racism in such cases.
@@metalstarj If racism is a factor, why is it people in the lower socioeconomic strata tend to hate cops more than those in the upper socioeconomic strata amongst whites?
All in all, a pretty respectful exchange of thoughts. Where they agreed it was obvious, where they disagreed they treated the others' reasoning respectfully. Good job, brothers.
My father had the exact same conversation with me on how to conduct myself when dealing with the police. I've been pulled over for complete bullshit reasons at least a dozen times. I follow the rules of dealing respectfully with the police. I've been put in cuffs and sat in the back of cruisers, I've been searched, had my car searched, been told my options were to accept a bogus weed ticket or be taken to jail over Thanksgiving weekend, been stopped by a bicycle cop for "looking suspicious" while walking through a wealthy neighborhood, any number of aggravating infringements on my 4th Amendment rights. Throughout, I conducted myself with restraint and respect, and none of these incidents led to my arrest. Oh, by the way, I'm white. It's not the color of your skin, it's how you conduct yourself when you have to deal with being pulled over.
It's nice that you can comfort yourself with that belief. ;)
@@wiseonwords you didn't actually rebut anything he just said, are you just propagating religious dogma? How about use your brain before you respond in order to come up with something that actually adds to the conversation instead of just making yourself look like a moron
Sure, that applies to minorities who are dealing with a police officer with no racial prejudice or bias. Sadly that’s not the world that we live in. For you to just assume everyone’s encounter with law enforcement would be the exact same as yours is kind of ignorant. If racism still exists then racist police officers also exist, unless you’re implying that racism doesn’t exist which would be completely delusional.
His point is it's not just minorities who have the potential to experience this not that everyone's experience is the same. I dont understand why this conversation always has to be viewed through a lens of racial identity, any time any person is in a situation where they can abuse power over another individual for any reason there need to be checks and balances in place. Certainly there are racist white cops, just as I'm sure there are some officers who don't like people based on a multitude of other arbitrary characteristics. White people are killed by white police all the time. What can we do to better limit the police forces over reaches of power is the more constructive dialogue than just how do we get racist cops to stop abusing minorities.
What you don’t understand is that nobody with a brain is saying that police aren’t abusing and killing white people unjustly. We aren’t saying that it doesn’t happen to you. The point is that a white person doesn’t even have to worry about racial profiling and that’s why you’re not able to empathize in this situation. Let’s also be honest, what are the odds that an abusive piece of shit cop hates every single person in America equally and doesn’t also carry racist ideology. Clearly those police officers don’t have much virtue or empathy for others in the first place.
I normally see Neil interacting with mainstream public figures. Seeing him interact with an academic was sweet. Props to both men here
I don’t know any one that doesn’t have multiple police stories...
I don't have multiple police stories.
Where i grew up almost everyone (strangely excludding asians) had numerous stories of police abusing their power and station.
Hell, i remeber when my friend recorded a massive officer breaking up a house party and for no reason runs up and straight up bart Simpson chokes this tiny ass hipster while his partner starts macing the inside of the house like its lysol.
you hangin with the wrong crowd, son 🤣
I'm just kiddin, cops r diks
I have several myself........and I'm pretty much white.
it's possible that white people don't share their police stories in front of black people because of the relative severity of the stories
Interesting conversation with a successful, thoughtful man (who carries his own baggage of the much larger problem than Racism--Misogyny). Minimizing potential harm done in all life & death-related professions--without political-based agitation to riots (especially, during a pandemic) and without media sensationalistic bias, seems like the rational, civilized way to go. Keep up the good work, the wide perspective (including how women are affected by police indifference/passive brutality) and sense of proportion, Coleman!
hey Coleman, I think there's a lil editing mishap at the beginning of you speaking at 27:24? seems like it cuts halfway though a sentence. Fantastic work as always though, keep it up :)
Yeah I was enjoying Neil's account of the history of American media and culture. Shame it got cut short.
There was indeed a weird jump.
Neil is smart, obviously. But I understand why he chooses to ignore the data here, and kind of dismiss the conversation at times. It is so terrifying to be cancelled and he's high up, ready to fall. Agreeing with common sense in an emotional movement is tough. I see it with people I love and who I know are intelligent. Social pressure to perform and conform is strong, and even giants like Tyson are susceptible. Maybe even more so because they have more to lose. Thank you, Coleman, for being braver than ALL of us.
Great conversation Coleman. Neil needs to do a lot more reading around history and the social sciences. Thomas Sowell would be a good start for him.
As the modern unofficial, and possibly reluctant, spokesperson for the scientific community, Tyson in conversation is always an enlightening experience. His talents merit a place at the forefront of human endeavor moving us all forward as a species while inspiring future generations toward the attainment of knowledge. For him to have to address the ugly issues of racial injustice and stupidity is a colossal disservice to him and society as a whole. Instead of engaging in his work from which we may collectively benefit, he must leave his post at the front to mire in the muck and help push from the rear. Bigotry, racism, religious animosity, superstition and ignorance should not be encumbrances of any of us, let alone our best and brightest. Yet here we are, laden with the fact that although the data of N.G.T's cab-metric may show progress, we're still dredging through the problems of our lowest character. Excelsior Mr. Tyson.
I normally don't set a reminder, but I did for this one!
Same
yuup
Coleman Hughes, glad I found your podcast. I applaud your courage in bringing up this subject. I heard mention of you on a Sam Harris podcast. It's also cool that you got Dr. Tyson on board. I am trying to ingest enough information on this subject so I can speak to and communicate this subject to others in a calm and rational voice. Wish me luck. I wish you luck too.
Imagine getting that emotionally charged after just saying "I'm speaking as a scientist"
Tyson was rather demeaning at some points in this conversation. He makes very subtle character jabs at Coleman throughout. Lost a little respect not gonna lie.
he meant to say 'i'm not speaking as a scientist here, but as a regular person' i think.
@@Rassalcon fair enough
He still makes an effort to smugly insult Coleman for no apparent reason at multiple points in the conversation. He constantly implied that his thoughts were deeper than Colemans and that Coleman lacked sensitivity.
Bystander He has a big ego for sure.
I thought he said "I'm not speaking as a scientist"
I'm a white man in his late 20s and I have been stopped by the police a number of times in three countries (Canada, the United States and Israel). But the difference was that in every situation, there was always a very clear reason why I was stopped and I never felt threatened.
These reasons ranged from being asked about a suspect they were chasing, to getting warnings about rolling a stop sign and hanging too long in the fast lane, to just being curious about a young guy reaching in a back seat of my car (there was a crime wave in the area I was living in), to sitting in a parking lot at 1 a.m. after going on a drive to blow off steam.
I've only ever actually been punished once (one speeding ticket). But I never felt targeted by cops, and I don't know any other white people who have either, even if they may have an occasional story about being unfairly ticketed.
By contrast, most of my black friends and acquaintances have stories. And they're mostly people of middle and upper middle class upbringing like me with a degree or two or three. I related to Tyson's story from a different perspective.
NDT not knowing Emmett Till’s name and saying “I don’t care what the statistics say” had me face palming.
Tyson has shown himself to be a hack unfortunately. And how much respect I thought I had for this man.
My parents put me through the same "police training" when I was young. My dad told me, "they will shoot you if you do something stupid". I've had similar experiences with over 10 encounters with police in a single year.
I'm white. Pasty, white.
Frame things through a colored lense and you see them that way.
Much respect to you both. Really killing it, Coleman!
Thomas Sowell would be great! Update: Peter Robinson has done an interview with Sowell on his new book (at ninety years old!!!)
Coleman, it's great you provide a platform of dialogue and letting your guest share thoughts and ideas so we can all express and exercise our First Amendment.
Maybe NDT has contributed tremendously to the astrophysics arena but he lost me with this interview.
Seriously, same stuff happens to white people everyday but then afterwards we just forget about it. We don't file it away as some sort of systemic conspiracy. So how are you going to differentiate when it's racist and when it's not? Has he considered that maybe when in an all black context, you're not getting both sides of the american experience? Where's the control group Neil?
JeuϟPater as a black South African I find your comments being just mental gymnastics ...black people die in the hands of the police in America disproportionately.NdT is calm and sharing his life perceptions as a black man in America....please acknowledge that.
@@normanndaba8823 That is completely false. There are mountains of data & studies on this that the media never discusses. Washington Post data, CDC Data, FBI data. Harvard Ivy league studies. Look up it. Ps. I don't care what your identity is. We're all humans.
@@jeupater1429 from what i heard in this video. Neil acknowledged that in general its equally dangerous when anyone regardless of color interracts with the police and that it would be generally safer for people if the interactions are reduced. One interesting point I think he made was that there might be baises that increases rate of police interactions between black people (stop and frisk etc) which makes the impact there worse. He might be wrong on that point but I find it interesting enough to investigate further
JeuϟPater I don’t.
This is a huge leap for Coleman. Expect this to blow up with NGT on it, he's mainstream. I've heard nothing but good things about Coleman and from him when I've listened to him. Hopefully this'll be good.
I had such high hopes for this Interview
The optimism of Neil. May it spread to all and his thoughts be heard, Thx Coleman
i feel like one of Coleman's childhood hero's is disappointing him before his eye's.
He sure disappointed ME, but I wasn’t expecting much. Or maybe I should say I wasn’t expecting Coleman-level quality, which is hard to match.
Maybe he'll grow up a little as a result ...
I have been a big fan of Mr. Tyson for many years. This was not him in top form, but this is a most difficult topic, and the discussion is important. Mr. Hughes has an important voice, and is remarkable for 23 years of age.
Boy, I've never seen Tyson so emotional and making such poor arguments. It's like he wasn't mentally prepared to ear that the problem of police murders of unharmed persons is a small problem statistically and that it affects whites as much as blacks.
And they didn't discuss the bias in media and society in reactions to the murders by police of black persons versus white persons in very similar circumstances.
He made valid arguments, you probably just expected him to toe the line you agree with?
@@CVLFMG He lost me when he brought up his personal statistics. Are we supposed to believe he kept track of his yielding cabs, for decades? Come on now. 'In the 80s, it was, errr... a third!' He is just making it up as he goes along. Never mind the fact that it doesn't constitute evidence.
wildzwaan someone else also mentioned in another comment that his age may have also made a difference
@@wildzwaan what do you mean "come on now". Why is that far fetched?
And if you dont believe his experience, what about the millions of people that report the same experiences? And when does it constitute evidence? At 10? 100? 1000? 10k? 100k? 500k? Or do they not matter at all, until the police release their statistics?
@@CVLFMG
What valid arguments did Neil make?
Thank you, gentleman! A wonderful conversation, deeply felt and honestly thought! I live in Honduras, a lost little country right now, but struggling for survival.
I’m surprised I used to think Tyson was a logical guy. Most of his arguments here are emotional anecdotes. It’s not to devalue the anecdotes, which I think are valuable in recognizing a bias in police action AND the perception of police action. He prefaces some arguments with “as a physicist” or “as a scientist” only to proceed to dismiss the data he was just presented with in favor of how people feel and the value of anecdotes over statistics... It’s just unreal to see a guy who was instrumental in helping me think more logically about letting go of my biases on religion or Pluto in favor of reality now suffer an inability to overcome his own biases. He’s as much of a hypocrite as the anti-scientific community he was once so focused on condemning.
I don't think so. I think he was saying that even though the number of unarmed black people killed by police is small as a fraction of all ways a person might die, it's part of a context in which black people have felt targeted by police (historically out and out persecuted, more recently it's smaller things like just more likely to be stopped, frisked, etc). So even though the number of deaths is low, people see it as a symptom of a larger problem. Not saying every BLM member has that understanding, but that's what I got from this interview and i think it makes sense.
He's never spoken of his "black" experience before. He didn't want to be known as the "black" astrophysicist. He was always so adamant about being judged in accordance to his merit because he really IS exceptionally brilliant! Like Einstein level of smart!
Closest I've heard him speak of race before was when he said people used to try to discourage him from astrophysics & encourage him to pursue basketball.
I guess the lid finally popped. Pisses me off more that it's happened to him too over anybody else!
Mostly human
I think Mr. Tyson is more animated talking about astrophysics than about race. He's so hesitant in talking about this topic.
Neil degrasse tyson singlehandedly got me into astronomy and cosmology, so I've always been a huge fan. no after hearing him open up about the issues he's had due to being black and opening up about his own political outlook I respect him even more. And I'm turning into quite the fan of Coleman Hughes. I only started listening to him maybe a week ago after watching the glenn show with Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter, and he is so damn bright not only for his age, but in general. He's seems so calm and intelligent. I'd love to have a meal and pick his brain about some things.
Neil is getting a bit emotional speaking "as a scientist" when Coleman points out the very real dilemma that in a country with so many people, some will be mentally ill, some will be potentially dangerous in the moment, and some cops will make mistakes or be cunts. You can better vet the cops and bring that lower, but ultimately you're not going to get these killings to zero. You're just not. It's absurd to compare getting that number to zero to ending slavery. And not being at zero does not justify riots.
But it is an emotional issue for him as he and people like him are mistreated more often than not. Its okay saying he is a scientist but he is a human being first. He is not some artificial intelligence that has no feelings at all. And like Coleman stated there are peaceful protests and there are riots, why do you choose to just talk of the riots and disregard the peaceful protests. Its amazing that you would want a discussion void of emotion when the very topic is emotional. Maybe not for you as you might be removed from it.
@@revival45 I was quoting him when I said "as a scientist" - he said that...for some reason. I know the reason actually. It's because he was using the appeal to authority fallacy to bolster his argument...which is weak and came across quite desperate. Still though I think it's very important in this discussion to be careful with our emotions. Ultimately Neil isn't ever that interesting to listen to as I think he thinks he is. Maybe if the tide turned and it became cooler to be anti-BLM he would do that for cool points. OK I retract my riots coment for "protests", whatever you want to call it. Though some BLM members would justify riots, defunding police and revolution.
@@revival45 "people like him are mistreated more often than not" That is a lie.
AWESOME COLEMAN, hope it is/was a great conversation. I read Tyson's posts about current events recently and would be interested to hear more in depth what he thinks and what he might say to your hard hitting questions on the topic.
Great conversation, would love to see another episode with NDT on additional topics.
We also underwent the exact same police encounter prep in our family. My parents with us, me with my children. The key issue, every police encounter involves a gun. All parents worry about that. Every parent’s obligations should include this talk.
Tyson’s idea of keeping the bad apples out of police departments doesn’t consider that it may be the experience of being a cop that turns good apples into bad apples.
Loved this conversation. Both have great insights. Lots of meat to chew on and contemplate. Plus such a great fan of Neil’s. Keep up the great work.
Love how NGT has to invoke the past to justify the present.
Yeah. I bet there is a small mammal in his ancestry that ate a small mammal in my ancestry. I should sue him.
@@txdmsk problem is your mammal is still benefiting from what it ate 160 years ago.
@@scientifico pretty difficult to quantify that, if it is even true at all.
How is a person supposed to invoke something real if it isn’t from the past?
@mxlbabe You know LBJ modeled the Civil Rights legislation he pushed after the same legislation which the United States had used to destroy the native american population. He saw the more you focus government policy on a specific group of people the more impoverished you make them and the more dependant you make them on surviving off of the benefits provided by the government and as long as you stay on message indicating how much more work there is to do the more loyal this targeted group is going to be if guided by corrupt leaders willing to sell out their own people to spread your message.
LBJ never apologized for his racism calling MLK a ni**** until the day he died. Why do you think Malcolm X warned blacks that progressives were the most dangerous threat to the black community; moreso than any kkk member because at least you could identify a kkk member from miles away.
LBJ and the civil rights legislation, my friend, has done what neither Slavery, nor segregation nor Jim Crowe could accomplish in their heyday.....your racist hero in a party of racists have managed to take a group of people who were moving up like a rocket during the 19th and early 20th Century with the amount of affluence and wealth blacks were accruing.....your saint LBJ managed to not only stop the wealth building of the black community but actually succeeded in destroying the black nuclear family and decimate generations of black people to an indoctrinated acceptance of poverty.
A black child in the 19th Century had a greater chance of being born into a home with their biological mother and biological father than a white child. Black students were out performing white students in education graduating at the top of their class on average higher and obtaining higher levels of competancy, on average, than whites. Black entrepreneurs in industry were providing better quality products, cheaper labor and out working their white counterparts.
LBJ and his "Great Society" slammed the breaks on that and threw it in reverse as they had government workers go around black neighborhoods apprising people of the government programs they could take advatage of and all they had to do was have no father in the home, not work and have kids to care for. How compassionate.
Why is it so difficult to understand that when government taxes something you get less of it. When government subsidizes something you get more of it. The government has targeted black communities to subsidize behavior that results in no father at home, no employment and little kids to care for and you are somehow surprised or unable to make the connection that the 75% single motherhood rate in the black community is because racism? Yeah it is due to racism. The racism of the same damn party that has always been about race and racial division. You think democrats care about black people by having the govermment subsidize single motherhood, unemployment and hungry kids?
Blacks up until the 1960's were actually rapidly improving, which if left alone, likely would have met the improvements of both asians and jews. But a sustained government effort to focus dependancy on black communities by the only party in the history of this country to predicate policy since its inception through today entirely on race has destroyed the black family unlike any racist effort in all previous history.
Thank you Coleman! Would love for you to explore how NYC police dept is achieving their positive stats. PTSD is a well-acknowledged issue for veterans, I've often wondered why we don't hear about PTSD and the police.
DeGrasse didnt just duck the questions like he did with Harris, but I dont think, to the extent he did answer, he was either on topic or objective for much of this discussion. He seems to want to walk in both isles. That is, to not pronounce on a definitive postion, I think for obvious reasons, or to add overly long caveats, with respect to what is a hugely consequential and damaging narrative.
Other comments seem to me quite on point here in that DeGrasse seems to get asked about today, now, when we see inexcusable madness nearly everywhere, he goes to decades old examples of isolated racism nobody would countenance. " I dont care what the percent is" being said by someone who is otherwise a champion of empiricism, and as someone who knows the "lowly stamp of our origins", as well as having two eyes to see exactly what is going in, seems genuinely quixotic. Im not sure he was at all helpful in this discussion.
which questions did he duck?
Neil's passion is what has made him special. It seems that this latest straw has opened a flood gate for him and his performance seems influenced by an extra dose of adrenaline. It's like Coleman is his therapist in this, just letting him vent. I agree that Neil was not at his most rational is this, but that also made it quite moving for me.
@@johncalebkwawoo1678 Listen to the Sam Harris podcast. It will be obvious he's scared of the subject.
First of all, thanks for another great conversation Coleman, I can't believe I've neglected to subscribe until now as I've listened to every episode of your cast since you started.
Second I have to say I quite enjoyed Mr. Tyson here. I'm not usually a fan of his because I find his public persona to be irritating, like he's always trying to be the "cool" or "hip" scientist with his pop culture references and so on, but I feel like we're seeing a more genuine reflection of the man in this podcast. Neil deGrasse Tyson the astrophysicist, rather than Neil deGrasse Tyson the entertainer and I find it quite suits him. Thank you for bringing out the best of your guest.
_"I dont care what the percent is"_ ??
But... he's a scientist! Has he become a postmodern scientist? If such a combination is even possible.
"The talk" is less common in white homes partly because the meta-narrative of the community is not "the police are your enemy". I had a cop with her hand on her holster once. I was just on the side of the road checking my oil. She was supposedly stopping to HELP me! I didn't start saying, "Leave me alone. Why did you approach me? I didn't do anything!" Instead I placed my hands on the hood of my car and asked "What do you want me to do to make you comfortable that you get to go home tonight to your family, because you are obviously very nervous? Would you like me to get on the ground and place my hands behind my head? I am simply checking my oil."
The reality is cops are terrified of contacts with the public. Especially alone. I have seen the videos of the smiling motorist who suddenly pulls a hidden gun and shoots the police officer, and I know they are watching the same videos. Our problem is that we are a violent, well armed, emotionally unstable, drugged out population and police have a dangerous thankless job.
For a scientist his “experiments” lack many aspects of the scientific method.
NDT once said "a great challenge of life: knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong". Perfectly applies to him on politics and BLM. Still he's a great intellectual.
Neil " this is my episode and I'm gonna let you know" degrass Tyson
Yup. Just ask Rogan!
Ross Miller To me, NDT came across as rather arrogant. How many times did he mention he was a scientist? Or a mathematician who could understand statistics, in fact, after he tried clarifying his positions, I was left somewhat confused.
...It was written that the divine Revelation would surprise the world; like the surprise caused by a thief at night; in the divine truth nobody is exclusive; they are all my children; more, the one who being first in seeing, and hearing does not give importance to the divine Revelation, that son is not first before the divine Father; it is not because of its own indifference; although opportunity had to be; this results in a crying and gnashing of teeth; then, the divine love attraction between spirit and that which is divine is the most fascinating to human feeling; everyone wants to be saved; but almost nobody conquers his own salvation; only when they see, they believe; not seeing, it's not worth finding out; such, add millions in your world; the fate of these spirits, are the worlds of indifference; sad philosophy; that he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven; there they enter, the humble; that in the silence of their own sufferings, they always had a smile in bloom; that having lived a lifetime of exploitation, they were happy; never a complaint; they were as they are the children. - I will happen to explain to you the divine origin of the solar number: all number, is before all the world; that is to say that every number is first, feeling; and before feeling is a divine mandate, in solar suspension; that is to say, he waits in his library for theBedrío; this wait can be eternal; for it works in itself, in celestial weather; every number, has a divine record; that goes back to distant galaxies; every number is a living philosophy; every number is before the creature that thinks it; all numeral calculus is a divine instantaneous alliance of numeral cherubim; every number is first in life; for without the number, there would be no life; for life, is a divine calculation, of other lives, and of other numbers; and both are divine product of the divine Ball of living fire; there are all the causes; the known and unknown; to try to penetrate beyond the respective galactic number, it is like trying to penetrate, in the divine freedom of theBedrío of the divine Father Jehovah; all planetary knowledge has its limit; it is subject to its own hierarchy; it can not go further; for every number with which their divine alliances arose, bring within themselves, their own limitation; they are allied destinations, in the same moment of the celestial time; and having traveled unprecedented distances, they are specified in a single solar line; that is, they mature in a transfer to material life; this transfer includes a momentary oblivion, in every spirit; of the worlds of the flesh; if it were not so, human life would not be a test; it would not be a spiritual progress; then, everything would be given to him; no effort would cost him; there would be no merit in anything; Merit is the cause of a difficulty; in overcoming this, there is the triumph of the spirit; the divine parable explains it: You will earn your bread, with the sweat of your forehead; pity that men have falsified this; they took out the money and exploited their brothers; no demon that nourished in life, this philosophy, Enter the Kingdom of Heaven; will be forgotten, in human happiness.- Alpha and Omega DIVINE ORIGIN OF THE SOLAR NUMBER; HOW THE DIVINE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION WAS DONE, TO CREATE THE EARTH; YOUR GALACTIC NUMBER; HIS DIVINE SPIRITUAL HIERARCHY BETWEEN THE WORLDS OF THE FLESH.-
2017 IN THE THINKING EXPANSIVE UNIVERSE, THERE ARE INFINITE INHABITED PLANETS; OTHERS WERE AND OTHERS WERE; THE WORLD OF TRIALS WILL SEE SUCH CREATURES ON SOLAR TELEVISION; WHICH IS THE SAME BOOK OF LIFE, OF THE DIVINE GOSPEL OF FATHER JEHOVAH; IN FRONT OF THIS COLOSSAL TELEVISION, MILLIONS OF MATERIALIST UNBELIEVERS WILL BE FILLED WITH SHAME; THOSE WHO LIMIT THE DIVINE POWER OF GOD, ALWAYS LOSE IN THEIR DIVINE PLANETARY JUDGMENTS; IT IS MORE LIKELY FOR ONE WHO DID NOT DENY THEM IN THE TRIALS OF LIFE, TO VISIT THE FAR WORLDS OF SPACE; THAT ONE WHO DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEM TO VISIT THEM.- 7 Seals = REVOLUTION in The Divine Kingdom of HEAVENS. The one above is the same as the one below. ScienceCeleste com AlfayOmega com .pe My New Name: Alpha Omega Alian = Jehovah The Most High, The Almighty, The Eternal Father. Jesus Christ = Mohammed MSTO = MASTER = CHRIST Revelation chapter 3:12, 19:12, The Antichrist and the False Prophet and the Spirit of Error 1 John chapter 4.
I've noticed Neil hasn't been as tactful in his ability to veil his arrogance as he once was. Although some are much better hiding it than others, it's unfortunately a common characteristic amongst people of Neil's public stature.
@@angelmediadorentrenosotros7579 I write and read long responses sometimes, but not reading that one, whatever the hell its about
Great show! NDT airplane crash analogy was a good example of how even low probability events are warranted of attention.
@Joel Harvey ...but it is a clear example of resources being dedicated to make a low probability and zero probability. FAA and NTSB resources may have far exceeded diminishing returns, but I am fine with their existence and activities. If law enforcement is changed for the better in this country because of BLM's hyperbolic rhetoric and Black people owning this issue, why be so disgusted about it?
@Joel Harvey Around 7,500 Black homicides in 2018 and 228 police killings of Blacks. Once again, a little more than 40 cops out of 900,000 were killed annually. You seem to justify police hysteria but regard Black hysteria as nonsense.