Has Anti-Racism Become A New Religion? with John McWhorter (Ep.2)
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- Опубликовано: 14 янв 2020
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In this episode, I interview John McWhorter, an American academic and linguist, on the notion of anti-racism, the Alex McNab saga, religion, and more.
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#Racism #Religion #Politics
![Woke Racism with John McWhorter [S2 Ep.40]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gT9qMq0faCQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Woke Racism with John McWhorter [S2 Ep.40]](/img/tr.png)
for the love of god i wish this discussion would trend
Yeah, too bad unreasonable people will only scream “Coon!” and “Uncle Tom!” without having really considered/understood what they’re saying. Cognitive/emotional malfunction.
shared it to FB. i agree.
Comments and likes and other ‘interactions’ help trend the vid. So, good work!
Never going to happen unfortunately. The fiction authors in the media are not interested in the truth.
Richard Spencer just discussed it with a couple others on a stream
As a black person, I would like an articulated person speaking on my behalf then some ppl preaching statues and slavery. Convince me, don't preach and pressure. Please, these are the ppl we need on the news. It seems like it's always the same stereotypes on the news speaking for the whole of the black community. Monolithic 😒
I don’t do slogans, so to me, “Black Lives Matter” is just as empty as its comeback cousin. Blunt instruments for change are just too ham-handed for my taste. Rather than endlessly debate catch phrases, monuments, and movements-I’m far more interested in considering the underlying merit in a point of view. While everyone else spins their wheels on who’s right, I define what I see by factoring for what’s true (isolating and correlating along the way). When it comes to ascertaining the truth, I don’t care what your cause is, who’s in the White House, who controls Congress or the courts. I learned early on in life that what you want gets in the way of what you see.
Does the Democratic Party have a history of manipulating racially-charged incidents? Undeniably! Has the left-leaning side of the cable clans increasingly accommodated Democrats over the years? Without question! Can you conclude what happened to Trayvon and Michael Brown with the same certainty as the death of George Floyd? No way-but ya did, and in lickety-split fashion.
Zimmerman’s brother perfectly put it: “He had the greater hand in his own demise.” To an apologist, he had no hand at all-a mindset that violates the rules of reality. If you’re pulled over by the police and you cop an attitude, you’re askin’ for trouble. And right on cue, “He was a wannabe cop and was told not to follow him!” So, you want to skip right over what transpired and go right to “gunned down”-because he was armed and didn’t follow instructions? Wishful thinking is not an argument-not to mention the fact that preforming calcified conclusions is prejudice by definition.
The Left seeks to eradicate racism while refusing to recognize how they fuel it. The second they painted Trayvon as a child, they contaminated their judgment. The cops made an honest mistake in calling his watermelon drink “iced tea” (simply because of the brand). That the media advocates reported it the same way at first is understandable. That they never corrected it is unforgivable. To conform to fact, we must agree that it was watermelon and consider what it means: Maybe nothing, maybe everything. But you pollute the debate when you won’t even acknowledge the irrefutable. Worse than that-you poison your purpose.
You’d think that a party that prides itself on intellectualism would examine the efficacy of their efforts. Perhaps even try some predictive analysis:
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Hmm, we’ve got the first black president in the White House and we’re marching to Black Lives Matter. That might be overplaying our hand and have unintended consequences. Same goes for the removal of monuments-do we really want to infuriate the opposition for fleeting gain? Maybe the awe-inspiring artistry of historical figures will spark a sense of wonder in the youth. Perhaps they’ll read the plaque and probe for more. Whatever their findings, isn’t there great value in that process of discovery? Wouldn’t it be better if we just let people make up their own minds about whether problematic pieces embody hate or heritage? And even if the monuments could magically vanish from the face of the Earth, would that really solve anything? On top of all that, it seems that the more sensitive we try to be, the more hypersensitive our culture has become. That wasn’t our aim.
We elected a sophisticated guy-shouldn’t we seek change in a bold and sophisticated manner? After all, wasn’t that the point of his presidency? Wouldn’t we more successful in solving problems if we took an honest look at the different dimensions within them? Instead of putting Kaepernick on a pedestal for telling us what we wanna hear, maybe we should be inspired by Kobe who told us what we don’t:
"I won't react to something just because I'm supposed to, because I'm an African-American. That argument doesn't make any sense to me. So we want to advance as a society and a culture, but, say, if something happens to an African-American, we immediately come to his defense? Yet you want to talk about how far we've progressed as a society? Well, then don't jump to somebody's defense just because they're African-American."
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For immovable conservatives who find comfort in that quote-take a good look in the mirror, because defending the indefensible is your M.O. What we’re seeing today was partly built on a foundation of manufactured outrage (which applies to most controversial issues in America over the last 30 years). Decades of dishonesty in the Gutter Games of Government is not a nation on a path to greatness. I wrote this piece before I came across the accompanying video. I was blown away by these words: “Anti-racism, as currently configured-has gone a long way from what used to be considered intelligent and sincere civil rights activism. Today it's a religion.”
ruclips.net/video/mT2rlJe9cuU/видео.html
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”
― Leo Tolstoy
ruclips.net/video/p4hMfZfN8WA/видео.html
Nobody will put them on the news. Everyone thinks the media is biased against them (which makes no sense). If someone put these guys on a show? Their headquarters would be flooded and destroyed - by young white kids who want to feel they are changing the world! We can't have a level-headed conversation until the emotion dies down.
@@rickmemmer5625
Well, I'm not entirely sure why you specifically replied all this to someone that doesn't appear to have asked for it, but I agree with a lot of what you said. Couple confusions, though:
_"The cops made an honest mistake in calling his watermelon drink “iced tea” (simply because of the brand). That the media advocates reported it the same way at first is understandable. That they never corrected it is unforgivable."_
I guess I'm not familiar with this, so I don't know what you're talking about; why is mistaking a drink "unforgivable" or even important?
_"For immovable conservatives who find comfort in that quote-take a good look in the mirror, because defending the indefensible is your M.O."_
What do you mean by this?
@@ActionAlligator First off, allow me to compliment you on what ranks with the finest replies I've ever seen on anything (to me or anyone):
"Well, I'm not entirely sure why you specifically replied all this to someone that doesn't appear to have asked for it, but I agree with a lot of what you said. Couple confusions, though:"
A society willing to converse in such ways would be limitless in potential. So lemme finish my dinner first (because I'm starving) -- and then respond to your excellent questions. I was just so blown away by your exquisite opening that I had to get this out.
So I thank you and I'll be back to you shortly.
. . .
@@ActionAlligator Regarding my compliments-what impressed me was your sincere interest in clarification and the way you went request it. That’s what I like to call as rare as unobtainium on Pandora. ;o)
I wrote this piece over the weekend. Ironically, it was inspired by commentary I had seen from a couple of fairly-reasonable friends (not extreme on either side). To observe them buying into this blanket belief of Black Lives Matter-as if “this time” it’s all gonna be different (“enough is enough”), and they’re part of a movement to make it happen. No, they’re not-this is going nowhere. And sure, there’ll marginal improvements in policy and some attitudes, but as I pointed out to my friend, Minneapolis police had overhauled their procedures just a few years ago-and this still happened.
By all means, overhaul the police as necessary. I’m simply saying that you can’t solve multidimensional problems that way. It’s like saying that “affordable housing” is the answer to the homeless epidemic. No, there’s hell of a lot more to it than that. More on that some other time if you’re interested.
So I wrote this piece for the same reason I wrote my documentary on similar topics: To hopefully spark a conversation on subject matter that’s not being addressed in an intellectually honest manner (and in many case-it’s flat-out dishonest). But the subject matter is really just a means to illustrate human behavior-so my aim is more about honest debate itself.
So my post was somewhat random-I just went to a few videos and started pasting here and there. I posted it on Facebook and haven’t been back since-and don’t plan to return anytime soon. I’m not looking to get into rabbit-hole debates on this. I know exactly how people will respond to my piece-which is precisely why your response is so special. It surprised me.
Okay, to your questions:
"The cops made an honest mistake in calling his watermelon drink “iced tea” (simply because of the brand). That the media advocates reported it the same way at first is understandable. That they never corrected it is unforgivable."
They purposely didn’t the correct the mistake on the can because there’s a connection between the drug called “Lean” and the items he had on him (Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail and Skittles). Am I saying for certain that he was going to use those items to mix some Lean? No, but there’s evidence to suggest that (his history along with text messages). There were likely concerned about the watermelon stereotype as well, but that’s nothing compared to concern about Lean. They wanted to paint this kid as an innocent child, and drug use would destroy that image.
Given that they refused to even acknowledge this element in the story-clearly demonstrates that they had ulterior motives. Have you ever seen what Trayvon looked like before he died? It’s nothing like how he was portrayed. So it’s unforgivable because they poised the possibility for rational discourse-and in so doing, he became the catalyst for Black Lives Matter (which became the catalyst to elect one of the most despicable human beings to ever live). They engineered an illusion to serve their agenda-and the whole country is paying for a price for it.
As for your second excellent question: "For immovable conservatives who find comfort in that quote-take a good look in the mirror, because defending the indefensible is your M.O."
What do you mean by this?”
Kobe’s quote is about defending people by association. Democrats do it too-but not nearly to the egregious degree that conservatives (and they never stop defending). Here’s a short scene (2:22) from Shattered Glass that perfectly illustrates my point. Imagine that the girl in the scene is a Democrat. She’s defending her friend by default-and continues to do so, but little by little, she’s being moved by compelling arguments-and in the end, she comes around. If she were a Republican in today’s world (or even going back about 20 years in the aftermath of 9/11)-she wouldn’t budge one bit, no matter what he said.
And that’s the difference: ruclips.net/video/wyF81z1V-kA/видео.html
Thanks again for your fine questions and graceful manner. Feel free to ask more (or disagree with something and explain why).
The black community desperately needs to lift up actual black intellectuals like these gentlemen. True black excellence on display here.
No sir, the excellence has no color!
@@choma82 Unfortunately, given the current context, the black community does need such (black) voices to balance out the terribly negative and destructive voices that are being presented in MSM as the true and unique "champions" of said community. As we know, many of such self appointed "champions" have no experience whatsoever in what is being black, since they are white liberals for the most part. Ironically they try to violently silence any (black) voice that disagrees with them, like these fine gentleman do.
Such intellectuals transcend their skin color of course, like every human does, since one cannot be solely defined by it, unless you view the world from a deeply hateful racial view, as many do today.
No sirrr just because he’s “articulate” doesn’t mean shit
@@romeilicousk They are more than just articulate, there is substance to their views. The current stances of BLM will lead to a race war given time. Stances like we are seeing out of BLM create white extremists, and we don't need an actual fascist movement breaking out like the one antifa dream about. The men in this video need to be followed and shared to help prevent this.
Lance Stabler there’s been a race war for centuries 😕 it’s crazy how you’re really trying to blame the black lives matter movement for white extremist groups! Amerikkka has created white extremists! wow! There’s been a war on black people since they were kidnapped and brought to America and to my knowledge BLM wasn’t around then. How can you sit here and say that the BLM movement has no substance? You can’t be serious
Coleman, for a person your age to have already achieved such a level of knowledge, critical thinking skills, human understanding, empathy, and wisdom is truly impressive. If you continue to use your mind for learning, understanding, and explaining you will become one of the great thinkers of our age. You also present your ideas with levels of humility and empathy for the perspectives of others that can help bring Americans together at a time when other forces are tearing us apart. You are an inspiration! Please keep it up!
Beautifully put. Also, when the arguments are so strong, the colour of the person saying them, becomes irrelevant, or at least it should. A good argument is a good argument. Unfortunately today, it would seem, people seem determined to fly in the face of reason.
Could not agree with this more. I completely agree! Such an intelligent guy. And wise beyond his years.
I would say "thoughtful", a more important and rare quality than "intelligence".
I came to the comment section to write what you did, Karen. So happy someone already articulated my sentiment so beautifully. Gives me more time to listen to another video from either of these two.
@@winstonsmith8240 It's true that the color of the person should not be relevant; however, I think anyone who is feeling in a position of needing to defend themselves--such as black people who are convinced that they are under attack by various systems e.g. police--are going to be more receptive to someone who presumably has had more experiences in common with them. It's like, I as a white male would probably not be as receptive to a Hispanic woman explaining how my viewpoint is flawed as I would to another white male. Not to mention, they (again, presumably) wouldn't have ulterior motives against themselves or their own in-group. (Of course, it is clear at this point that liberal whites seem to have a unique position as being the only group that actively despises its own members, so maybe that's not the best example.) A black person who says "I've been in this exact situation and I have not noted any racism" lends a lot of authority or validity to the debate.
All that aside, both of these men bring up a lot of good points and their speaking style is so...I can't think of the right words, "Easy on the ears"?...that I could listen to them talk all day.
It's insane how this guy has been able to so easily change my mind on things I thought I would never budge on. I'm so grateful to people like him that take such a measured and factually based approach.
Lena Eggler welcome. Same here
Good on you for being open to changing your options on things. Of all the problems we have in our society today the reluctance or refusal to explore new ideas and respectfuly listen to folks who have different views might be the most concerning to me.
High level critical thinking like this uplifts me.
Thomas Sowell has been saying these things for 40+ years but i have only just found him. Enjoy hearing your views.
Just goes to show the lack of heterodoxy in our school curriculum's, doesn't it?
Thomas Sowell is one of the most intelligent and underrated economists/philosophers of the 20th century. I say underrated not because he isnt admired by many, but because you will pretty much NEVER hear about him or his ideas from anyone outside of libertarian or well-read classical liberal circles.
@@mikethered4864 he is not considered black by these phony liberals I bet.
Thomas Sowell is one of the best economic/speakers speakers I've heard period. Absolutely amazing.
A real Patriot, American, and Nobel Lauriet
The nuance of conversations that people like Coleman, Sam Harris, Glenn Loury, and John Mcwhorter are having is really getting to the bottom of the divisions with respect to race and culture and it’s really refreshing to hear. Keep it up!
Too bad theyre not leaders in government and changing policy.
Check out Chloé Valdary too! She and Coleman have a fabulous discussion on this podcast. She's so refreshing and enlightened in her thinking, totally shifted my worldview
@@bananabread4323 Definately will. Thanks for the recommendation!
I couldn't agree with you more.
There are many, many Colemans and John McWhortens out there, folks. It is not as uncommon as you think. I'm one of them. The problem is that the MSM has NO interest in booking conservative--or even thinking blacks on their shows.
I truly adore John McWhorter. Hope that he becomes a frequent guest on your podcast. Keep it up Coleman 👍🏼
I’d love for them to have a discussion of their respective musical passions!
Please have him back on, now these problems have hit fever pitch
I am in shreds over the fact that I did not take a course from this man during my education at Columbia
MCWHORTER: "Yes, human beings need [connection] and I don't think it's an accident that rather secular or even pagan mostly over-educated affluent whites are so Morman-style religious about race." QUOTE OF THE CENTURY, THUS FAR :)
Is it me but does he sound like Robert Downey Jr
Wow. Ouch.
I love this level of black intelligence. If you are black, listen to these guys and you will go places! Don’t listen to people who want you to look at yourself as weak, powerless and victimised. Take control and become real strong.
uhhh. no.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But what is their solution for black people owning their own businesses, schools, property, culture, etc? I'm generally curious because these podcasts only talk about how black people should pull themselves up by their bootstrap and not too much on how to do it. It sounds like they were able to go to really nice schools. How can we make sure everyone has that opportunity?
@rockster10101 Yes I mean everybody. Low income areas have a lack of funding for education schools. Many of these areas are this way through red lining. How can we make sure that there is equal education despite this wealth gap.
Also could you give me some examples of black people owning schools? Owning any companies in the automotive, aero, software and tech, oil, or any other significant industry that produces real wealth. I'm actually generally interested because I've done a bunch of research and I only come up with barbershops and restaurants
@@perplexedbystander4083 That is exactly the game being played. It's not about solutions. It's about talking so they can sell books and make appearances.
@@perplexedbystander4083 solutions reveal themselves when you are brave enough to face the facts.
Anybody else "in the middle" on this whole thing? It feels so lonely to understand both sides... why are we all extremists now?
Cause sometimes it is good, best, or right to be more extreme on something. Most things don't have to be, but sometimes it is good, necessary even, to be very much on a particular side. Human nature doesn't like to hear it, but some things really are black or white. (Again, not most things...but usually the stuff the world says isn't...is)
@@ItsRealyReall We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The only thing that is black or white is mathematics.
@fynes leigh They can help it if they understand the law of the universe.
I’m in the middle, my disposition is generally sympathetic to the progressive left as it reflects the ideas held by my friends who are so dear to me, but my study and reflection leads me to libertarian conclusions again and again. We are extremists partly because of the herd mentality and tribalism which is awarded by likes and marketed carefully by social media platforms- the polarized and sensationalist attention deficit media outlets (cnn and Fox News both)- and the tremendously identity politics heavy universities. Also, the American expressions of religion such as Christian fundamentalism and their literalist biblical interpretation and irrationality put the secularly minded often left wing in opposition with these anti modern inclinations- often unfortunately creating a straw man out of their presence assuming irrationality on the part of all religious manifestations instead of recognizing this expression as simply the loudest and the stupidest. It’s a bummer- not much room for nuance and care and thought
Are you under the impression that these gentlemen are extremists, or is your comment not related to the conversation?
In answer to the title, on June 4, 2020: YES.
ha hah ha
(not funny)
It's become a compulsory state religion, as reinforced by Roman Catholic Church style propaganda/ mind control
I've been calling it a religion for two years (while being a big fan of McWhorter and his work, among others like James Lindsey) and I'm glad to see it is finally really gaining momentum. Tons of people are calling out Wokeness as the political religion/cult that it is.
Yeah and your boy Coleman Hughes voted for Biden/Harris who openly supports BLM along with many other evil endeavours. Enjoy!
Thanks to both of you for your thoughtfulness and time. McWhorter is a treasure, what a gentle teacher he is-to us all.
Imagine the uproar if the security guards didn’t check for ID and a woman was assaulted or raped? You really can’t win.
That's not by accident.
I was thinking the same thing.
Wow - i was starting to loose my shit when all these riots were going on. I'm about to be a dad and was going through the phenomenon of suddenly becoming extremely anxious about the state of the world my child is to be born into.
Thank the gods for the sanity and outspokenness of a few: Tomas Sowell, Steven Pinker, Sam Harris, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Coleman Hughes to name a few.
I so wish the mainstream media would give some time to people like this, as opposed to pitching a Radical Marxist agains a Neo Nazi for 5 minutes and calling it a debate. Most journalists these days have no class.
i can relate hardcore as a fellow soon-to-be father. My only comfort is that this time of discomfort will at least allow for the possibility of a world that i would rather have my child live in
You should check out Ayishat Akanbi as well- she is a powerful speaker willing to acknowledge the nuances in modern issues.
@@abhijitkurse53 Yeah, she's great too.
hehe I have to say that I would like to see that radical marxist vs neo nazi debate haha.
I love how considered Coleman is. I'm trying to spread the word about this channel.
I'm a simple white guy from rural Oregon. And I have to say that this conversation was amazing. Both of you are amazing and hearing this conversation was calming and enlightening. Hearing two very brilliant people having a rational and enlightening conversation is just awesome. People who are not blasting right or left ideology and just talking about problems in intelligent and rational terms is seriously just awesome. I've learned so much just hearing this. I can't wait to listen to more!
Hi neighbor!
If you like Coleman Hughes then I highly recommend the Glenn Loury's "The Glenn Show".
I found it back in June when things started to get crazy in the PNW!
I especially watch the episodes with John McWhorter, not only are the conversations enlightening but both men have a sense of humor which really helps right now :-)
ruclips.net/p/PLNKMRlDojbRLXTsiamlNOG_2_b2EY_4ki
Thank you I am totally checking that out!
McWhorter is one of my favorite linguists. It’s interesting to see him here
I really hope Coleman keeps doing these podcasts with these kinds of guests, about these kinds of issues.
This was such a great conversation.
Being in the middle has lost me friends on both sides. I can't keep quiet when I see insanity. What a bizarre time and place to live.
"cultural appropriation, which is just culture coming together" -- exactly!
When the Dr. said that I learned something new!
I whooped for joy when he said that.
Wokesters literally redefine the word. Appropriate means "to make ones own". Culture means "shared cultural practices". If we take it to its end we cant eat many foods like pizza, curry or potatoes, cant drink tea, cant speak English as it has many European loan words, and wear many diff clothes. It's all so silly.
Hughes makes me feel hopeful - and I hope he absolutely thrives!
You must be white. Did you smile when George Floyd was Murdered?
@@morgainenyc Disappointing to see such vitriol here. Nobody, regardless of where they are in this debate, smiled at the death of George Floyd. Toxic dialogue such as this does not lead to progress- it fuels further bitterness and division in a time we need to stand together.
@@abhijitkurse53 Don't feed the trolls, that's why they do this.
@@JIMEYZthanks- you're right. I just forgot how toxic trolling could be.
As an English professor myself, working in Los Angeles, I have to say that what Mr. McWhorter is saying, the truth, is so sobering and refreshing. God bless.
Nice use of an appositive. It always livens up a sentence
THESE are the people that we need to be listening to, that need to be trending and driving the debate. Not the hysterical soundbites on twitter or overly polarised media.
These types of conversations is what America needs. You guys are exceptional brave and original thinkers of high calibre. Please keep strong and truthful.
I love linguistics and have a few of John's books. Fascinating reads. I think I tweeted to him years ago. After watching Gore Vidal and William Buckley debate, I was intrigued about the roots of their Ivy League accent. Anyways, wonderful conversation. My ancestors are Caribbean slaves (although I myself am pretty much an average white guy) that fled to the states. I am always interested in real oppression and justice. It is sad those lines have been blurred over the years, almost in an attempt to make us more tribal and make real and ugly racism stronger.
Joseph - What you have said is so accurate and true , unfortunately
You have to get Glen as well!
I love hearing people have more open and honest conversations about issues.
Two of the most intelligent men talking in America today. This is absolutely essential viewing. Thanks from the UK.
Dont forget Glenn Loury
And Thomas Sowell
@@TheAnniegoo and Jason Riley.
Coleman might be the brightest man I’ve ever heard and he’s in his 20s. Fml
I am praying he goes into poilitics...We need a leader like him.
When you feel like drowning but get a deep long breath of fresh air. I have spoken.
A valuable conversation, though I can't say I'm necessarily encouraged about the future. I don't see how any kind of post-racial society is going to be compatible with a hyper-sensitivity to race or a continued impulse to always infer nefarious motivations when incidents like the one at Barnard happen. Sure, individuals may be reasoned with behind closed doors, but the sway of the group is so much more potent. And this resurgence of tribal thinking and group affiliation doesn't seem to be running out of fuel.
We have to work within the in group preferences mentality because it will never go away. In a lot of ways its healthy. That is why nations need to go back to being more closely linked to tribe. And then tribe of good will can help each other without interfering and subverting each other.
I blame the hawkers of Critical Race Theory, a moral poison falsely labeled as medicine.
@@ToestubberI mostly agree: I would say though that critical theory is a necessary theoretical counterweight (when studying systems through a sociological lens) to structural-functionalism, which studies how it is that individual elements or institutions of society contribute to the healthy functioning of the whole i.e. how they benefit the total citizenry; I think critical theory is useful for "righting" institutions that have become corrupt, or that grossly favor some at the expense of others, and unjustly. The problem is that it's a tool to be picked up and then put down, a medicine to be taken and not become an addict to, lest it become poisonous, as it were. Racist instituitions/laws have really been MOSTLY corrected (classism really ought to be what we're aiming at), yet some people *cough* *grievance-study academics* *cough* wont put down the tool down because they need to justify their positions. Or perhaps, more sinisterly, they make the error of thinking perfection is possible. The issue there being that when a system is already operating at 95% functionality, to try to get to that 100% has a habit of disrupting the integrity/homeostasis of the whole system: this is why utopian dreams awaken always to dystopian realities.
Hello Mudda One of the best analyses I’ve ever read. I’m definitely going to share it.
@@Individual_Lives_Matter Cheers mate!
Love to hear this kind of unafraid honest discourse. Thank you good sirs.
This was one of the most thoughtful, nuanced conversations I have ever heard about race in America - or for that matter, anything. Well done!
Man -- this is a fantastic meeting of the minds across generations.
Gentlemen, I thank you both!
Great stuff. I love that you put a lot of research/preparation on these topics and therefore are able to approach the subjects in a very smooth and coherent way.
Love me some Coleman Hughes and some John McWhorter , seriously these two men are so smart thoughtful and to me , wonderful... The very best to you two gentlemen and thanks for great commentary...
They are fully aware of this subject matter , yet they need to stop ignoring their CREATOR.
This podcast is so refreshing. Conversations and people like this need to become the new norm
New School and Old School. I can't wait!
I really wish this type of conversation were possible at a larger scale. Thank you Coleman and John.
I just “discovered” Coleman on Real Time with Bill Maher. I am grateful people like you still exist. Kudos and much support and success to you! Keep up the good fight for reason and common sense, you give me hope.
John's ending comments on tests deserve to be discussed in a separate interview as it relates to the recent call to eliminate the SAT requirement at the University of California.
I am not a fan of the SAT, however the rationale for its removal due to undesired disparate outcomes along demographic lines comes off inherently silly to me.
@@pepps779 And patronizing ... a rush to the bottom. That is what California has become. (Along with the STUPID decision of San Francisco Police Dept. to refuse to prosecute property crimes of less than $700).
This is what you get from a world-view that places the valid theory that nobody should ever fail to get praised and rewarded for their efforts at a higher priority than competition in the way we teach and raise people..
To quote Bob Dylan:
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
Indeed you're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody
Don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters.
Fantastic video. Just ordered John’s books “winning the race” and “losing the race”. This is my introduction to him. I’m an immediate, huge fan.
Thank Glenn Loury for the shout-out that directed me to listen to this great conversation and subscribe to this channel.
Ah.... been waiting for the next episode of The Coleman Show. Sam's was great, so the pressure is on, Mr. Hughes :)
Alas.... you did not disappoint! Thank you both for a nice conversation and look forward to MOAR! :)
Coleman, I’m extremely enthusiastic about discovering your new channel. The more of your views expressed and readily available the better.
This was a fascinating and eye opening perspective. Lots of food for thought and will he marinating on this discussion.
Peace be to you! Greetings, from Washington, D.C. I'm a new subscriber! I agree with MOST of what Dr.McWhorter says. I am a Hospitalist PA and an erstwhile college professor. I have VERY strong feelings about what we immediately call racism, affirmative action, "diversity", and black-on-black violence versus White-on-Black violence. Thanks for covering this topic and having Dr.McWhorter as a guest.
You're obviously not born in the USA. They mentioned folks like you in the discussion. You do not have the same filters and inbred biased stereotypes - which is not to say that you have none. Peace to you!
@@socialbettors966 I was born in Carbondale, Illinois, raised in Washington, D.C. and Southern Maryland. My father was born in N.Y., HIS dad was born in Richmond, Vs. My mother was born in Kankakee, Illinois. So I'm "all American". Unfortunately, many people believe that all Black folks think alike and have the SAME experiences. You can check out some of my views on my channel. You can learn more about me. That way, you'll be less likely to make erroneous assumptions about me! Peace!😁✌🏾
Coleman, you and Sam Harris are the only people I can listen to about current affairs without getting stressed out. Thank you so much for your thoughtful discussion
I love this guy.. Every word out of his mouth is exactly what I'm thinking... He is just saying it from an educational level higher than mine... lol... I am definitely going to be reading his books... To be honest I almost had tears in my eyes listening to this conversation... Just knowing there are others out there that know exactly what is going on is a comforting thought...
This is the kind of discussion that should be on mainstream TV. I have always been a huge fan of John McWhorter, and I'm glad that I found you, Coleman Hughes. You two give me hope in this extremely bleak circumstances we all are in currently. Thank you!
It is such a delight to listen to a conversation between two people with enough time to plumb the depths of the complex topics discussed. Thank you!
"Not not woke." A forgotten category.
@SLAMO That's not the same thing because 'not not woke' includes people that were never woke to begin with
@SLAMO And unfortunately 4 months after your post we're definitely not in the post-woke era yet xd
#BAM Black Accountability Matters
Two of the most important public speakers in the world right now. Both brilliant, articulate and incredibly pleasant guys. Would love to have a chat with them.
I really love your quiet thoughtful manner. I have shared and shared your interviews. I’m just an old woman from Australia but you have an enormous amount to say. Well done you!
I'm glad to say I donated to your website today! Keep spreading open-mindedness and having difficult conversations! It's too difficult to have a discussion about anything these days which makes these podcasts and videos even more important!
I vividly recall McWhorter on CNN 15 or so years ago talking about William Bennett's "Abort black babies" comment that got him in hot water. Roland Martin was the other commentator. Martin was being rather condescending to Mcwhorter on the topic of "being sensitive" about things said in public. McWhorter remained composed and collegial the entire time. The louder and more interrupt-y Martin became, the smarter McWhorter appeared. Ironically, Martin was canned for saying something homophobic a few years later. Love it when the chickens come home to roost.
Listening to the incident regarding Alexander McNab reminds me of a time I was talking with a black male friend who said he experienced racism when he was walking in his neighborhood and a white woman who was walking her dog moved to the other side of the street. It surprised me that he automatically assumed it was racism because I am a white woman and when I walk my dog I will often move away from people to avoid my dog bothering them. I also had a white female neighbor whose dog was difficult to control, especially when she had a baby in a stroller, so she would walk to the other side of the street even if she saw me, even though we're friends, because it was just too much for her to handle. I find myself wondering how much of the micro-aggressions we hear so much about are due to racism or misunderstanding. I have no doubt that plenty of micro aggressions are attributable to racism, but many probably are not.
Rachel Kopfle I am a woman and I don’t have a dog and I still move to the other side of the street when I’m alone and there is a man of any color coming in my direction. I’m 5’1” and weigh 100lbs. I’m not taking a chances. It bothers me that so many people can’t see the logic behind that.
@@BM-fz9yc, I find that strange. It wouldn’t occur to me to move out of the way because a man is approaching on the same sidewalk.
@@wallihaley5194 so I assume you’ve never been followed, harassed, or flashed before.
@@BM-fz9yc, yes, I have. But i choose not to think that everyone I encounter on the sidewalk is a menace, so I just smile and say hello.
@@BM-fz9yc I am also a woman, 5'1" and 100 lbs. For decades I have tried to explain that if a strange man is coming my way, regardless of color or how he is dressed (brief case, tie, or workout clothes, etc.), I may not cross the street, but I do become very alert and defensive in posture. In the city, you'd be a fool otherwise. It is NEVER about race. It's about men and their very real potential danger, lethal or not, to women.
Dude! I saw you on the Rubin Report. You are so well spoken, love hearing what you have to say. Thanks for uploading!
it's people like these guys that are so important today. it gives me so much hope and comfort knowing this is out there for me to listen to, and think about, and share with whoever i can. very thankful for this.
The influence of Sam Harris is strong with this young padwan.
For over 55 years, in the black community, self-control and personal responsibility are viewed as a vice and victimhood is viewed as a virtue,; and these attitudes, flow from their culture.
Coleman talks about how the those aspects of what we think of as the "black" culture were absorbed from their southern owners after the civil war. At least, that seems to be what his hypothesis is. He said this on an interview with Michelle Carroll.
I like these guys, but they're intellectually dishonest when it comes to Obama's role in how race relations worsened on his watch.
@@rickmemmer5625 - Agreed, And, may I add, the complicity of Democrats.
In New York, LA, Chicago, Houston and Philadelphia, there are 133 City Officers. 89% are Democrat. These jurisdictions are cesspits and the most hostile towards blacks; and for one reason only - they are run by Democrats.
You cannot watch Democrats ruin black communities and then blame Republicans for the result. The facts don't add up.
Rick Memmer I agree-totally. These men are too intelligent to ignore the fact that Obama was complicit in indoctrination of false notion of systemic racism in the United States
@@mchoe5890 - Now, Obama is on the trail, doing what Michelle has told him to do - denigrate men. Obama's oratorio skill hides the fact that he is a shallow, moral-bankrupt, who never has an original thought in his head.
Coleman..... Professor McWhorter is one America's greatest minds. Kudos for getting him as your guest. And further kudos to McWhorter himself for giving this young journalist this opportunity.
Thank you for elevating the conversation!
In my high school an Asian-American immigrant in my advanced math class got a B on a test. His parents locked him in his room every day after school for a month. No cell phone, no computer, no friends, just the textbook and silence. On the next test he got an A+. That style of parenting is not unusual in that culture. It's no wonder cultures that succeed have things in common that are not racial in the slightest. We should learn from these cultures if we want everyone to succeed at life.
Except maybe don't lock your children in their room for a month. There's just a hint of abuse about that
I wish John would discuss the Religion of Woke with James Lindsay; I'd love to hear that conversation.
Yes yes yes
nah, that's the same old same old of the IDW-youtube crowd who criticize the religion of wokeness' takeover of academia and other parts of society (media, social media, tech, etc). How about something new? They should interview many of those quiet sympathizers they're always saying they're approached by in private, those who say "I believe in what you're saying but am too afraid to say so in public." If voice masking technology has improved to a point where the voice being masked doesnt sound annoying, then McWhorter or Lindsay doing several interviews with profs and high level innovators would be more interesting then chatter among the usual suspects. You'd obviously also have to blur their faces, but it would be nice to hear people "coming out of the woodwork" to some extent.
Good chemistry, respect and desire for understanding and discussion. Thank you for this podcast.
Bless Coleman Hughes!!
Although he has some good points , he needs to acknowledge the CREATOR .
Great interview by two of my heroes. I look forward to more! I also think you let John off too easily on two important questions that he elided: 1. what is the "religion" that will fill the hole in the heart of the legions of IGen/Zgen atheists soon to come into power (cuz not every atheist can be a Sam Harris), and 2. how do you transcend the racism that derives from human pattern matching without changing the underlying behaviors that create the pattern? He gave good answers but they did not hit the target you presented him with. Stay with your hard questions. They are great questions. Great work!
"Black apostate", that is an interesting term
Two very strong voices that we need to hear now more than ever...thank you for this conversation.
John, you are one of my heroes! Thank you for what you do.
“A religion shaped hole” is an extremely insightful thing to say. The desire for the mystic is a difficult thing to come to terms with in a healthy way in the 21st century… or ever.
Excellent conversation, Coleman!
I so appreciate your logic and patience with so many frustrated and confused people, all trying to be heard and some trying to understand. You field the underlying emotion(anger) from those with whom you speak and it's admirable. Thank you for your honesty and your passion for truth. I am with you in spirit, human with human.
Excellent and thought-provoking discussion. It is a pure pleasure to sit and relax and enter the thoughtscape, the creative world of ideas that these two brilliant minds emanate ... Thank you!
Please upload this content in podcast format and make available on podcast addict etc...
Thank you very much for this thoughtful discussion. Please keep it coming!
That leaves me wanting for more. Great stuff!
I didn't want it to stop! Well done to you both.
I loved this interaction. Something about John's character that seems really comforting.
Great talk.
Why was it so short?
The "Vernon" story is very much the attitude of the white working class in England. The idea that being "too bright" is a charchter flaw was very much part of English culture when I was growing up in the 1970`s. Punk rock star John Lydon once attacked it as the "it`s cool to be stupid" attitude and attributed it to the Labour Party. What is interesting is that this attitude among the English Poor seems to be of quite long term standing. Rather than being a product of the 1960`s. In particular I always got the feeling that it was some how conected to the 1940`s . Because of Britain being under a sige idurring W.W.2. there was a kind of social change. Sometimes called "war socialism." Perhaps the upheavals of the 1960`s had a similar effect on America ?
It was sort of the thinking in East Texas 70 years ago. Not that it extended to getting good grades. That was practical. I was not practical.
@@JRobbySh Sociologist Kieth Willis wrote a book in the 1970`s called "Learning to Labour: How Working Class Kids Get Working Class Jobs." It has been almost 25 years since I read it. But as I recall Wilis seemed rather sympathetic to the English Working Class culture of low expectations. He seemed to see it almost as a form of passive resitance to capitalist oppresion. An interesting view comming from someone who was a sucssesful academic. I beleive he was criticised for that when it was first published.
yes very much a working class attitude I remember that, it seems to me that it was a case don't be smart, know your place and keep your head down. of course some were doing better in school and college etc and the rest just didn't like it.
That was an incredible conversation!
I would give it two thumbs up if I could. I really enjoy the quality of the discourse coming from John McWhorter and Glenn Loury. I’m also happy to see that younger people like Coleman find this kind of inquiry worthwhile and are ready to carry the banner for the next generation. Leadership is sorely missing in America no matter what race or background you come from. It’s a crisis that we must face for the sake of the future and unborn generations.
Great conversation. You should use your influence with Sam Harris and get him to change that podcast music, since you clearly have the ear for what works more than he does.
Yeah that music doesn't fit his podcast at all.
I miss sam’s old theme so much. It brought an intensity to the tone of the show; an immediacy
Lol
original intro music was WAY better idk why he changed it ......
Hahaha I 100% agree, but I’m curious if Sam started out with the new dogshit intro music and changed to the old, would we all be asking for the dogshit?
I suspect not, cause it’s bad.
But glad to see Sam Harris listeners out here.
Coleman Hughes is ridiculously attractive. Anyone? Anyone?? I can't get over it.
I am learning so much listening to this. It is refreshing to hear dialog like this. Please continue to put out content like this.
We are around the same age, Cole. Finding your voice amongst the crowded mess that is public opinion today has been very cathartic for me. And I just want to say that these are the types of conversations people need to hear for them to properly open their eyes.
Thanks for the content. John Mcwhorter is great.
I do not believe there will ever come a day where humans will "get over" the instinctive need for religious thought of some kind.
I think the disconnect between many systems of thought come down to talking past one another. I think the religious, as the comment above mine shows by way of saying that humanity will be inhuman if the religious bend is lost, shows a type of *I've got this all figured out by way of my religious belief* , but I expect he wouldn't also think the 2 self-proclaimed atheists in this video are non-human. On the other hand, the religious look at the scientific minded as thinking science is the arbiter of all that is true and real and "has it all figured out".
I see current religions as expressing their beliefs as facts to be followed in a similar way that some followers of science believe science to be True. As I see it, it's the lack of spirituality present when things are seen as unquestionable and rigid, though it's complicated when no path is followed because all paths are deemed worthy and equal.
Any evidence that humans have an “intrinsic need for religious thought”?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion
@Mourning Star The central dogma of Christianity is the Incarnation. God showed himself to us as a man of his time and place. People rail against motion pictures that depict Jesus as a white European. At the same time they hate Mel Gibson who showed Jesus as a first century Jew. Interestingly, the most revered Catholic icon is the Shroud of Turin which depicts a man, believed to be Jesus, with distinctly semitic features.
You need a reason to get up in the morning. Even belief in "human progress" is a kind of religion. It isn't based on any kind of rationality.
Hearing how proud John is of Coleman a year later and revisiting this almost brings a tear to the eye.
This was such a nice, calm, thought provoking discussion. You are both so good at articulating your points. I truly believe that you can make a difference. Thank you, the world needs more people of your caliber
Great interview. Didn’t know John McWhorter taught music as well. 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
To be fair I believe that there is a culture in elementary, Jr. High and Highschool that tends to paint being smart or caring about school as uncool regardless of race. At least there was in the 80's and 90's where I grew up.
Interesting conversation, really enjoyed it. Wish there was less stigma associated with these sorts of conversations. I also lament that so much of the reaction I often see to a conversation like this is people on the left decrying it as racist and people on the right citing a conversation like this as proof that racism no longer exists. Seems like so many people fail to hear exactly what was said.
Glad to see you taking this on, Coleman. I'm looking forward to more thoughtful content (Suggestion: Lower the mic on the guests, or change the camera angle, so it's not covering their faces.). Good luck!
Wow!! You constantly challenge me. Thank you!