I’m curious if Tulane will find itself in the ACC eventually. Academic fit ✅, Geographic fit (now) ✅, competitive fit ✅. The next round of realignment will be very interesting and I think it’ll def include Tulane
they seem pretty content in the AAC though, I feel like they are likely to stay a few years to get a gauge before taking an option. It also depends on if Fritz is still the head coach too.
As a person who played DIII football in University of Chicago’s conference. They usually always have a solid team. Yea they’re not D1 anymore but they dominate and are usually always top 3 in the midwest conference. Real good academics and had a good football team, so i can agree that they’re doing fine rn.
When was their last D3 playoff appearance? And when was their last deep D3 playoff run where they won a couple rounds? I grew up near Mount Union. Which is a D3 blue blood. I don’t recall Chicago being a factor come playoff time in my life. I could be wrong or not remembering though. However, nearby North Central I’m definitely familiar with. Also, nearby Wheaton I can recall having some success too over the years. Different conference though but both near Chicago nonetheless.
@@zacheryhardie9313they haven’t, I lived in northern Illinois my entire life NEVER heard of anyone wanting to go to Chicago for football, I’ve heard Loyola and whitewater but not Chicago
@@john-mc4zo Harvard didn’t win any such thing. There was no national championship in those days. As a matter of fact, there still isn’t an official NCAA national champion in college football at the FBS level. It’s only a “CLAIMED MYTHICAL” championship and nothing more. Hence in the video itself, as it said Chicago “CLAIMS” 2 national championships in college football. Suwanee could “CLAIM” the 1899 national championship just like Harvard does if they chose too. Personally, after looking at the accomplishments for both teams for that year…well there’s a very real reason as to why the 1899 Suwanee team is considered as being one of the greatest teams in the history of college football. Yet you never hear any mention of that being said about the 1899 Harvard team !! When it comes to “MYTHICAL” college football national championships at the FBS level, well schools can literally “CLAIM” whatever they want, just simply because there isn’t a governing body that prevents them from being able to do it. Again, the NCAA doesn’t award or recognize an NCAA national champion in college football at the FBS level…therefore they don’t care what a school “CLAIMS” when it comes to “MYTHICAL” FBS football national championships !!
Great video. I really like how you acknowledge the academic benefits of the moves too. As football fans, I think that often gets lost in the discussion when college football fans focused on sports, but these are universities whose first priority is academics at the end of the day.
@@FyrFytr998very few. Michigan. That’s truthfully it. Stanford isn’t a powerhouse, duke, Vanderbilt, Virginia, rice, northwestern Tulane none are football powerhouse. And public school wise, Washington Texas and Georgia are top tier public schools dominant in sports but, Washington doesn’t carry as much weight on the east coast, Texas is generally good but only elite in Texas, and Georgia education is elite for the south,
Joshua Williams here. Surprised to be used as a source. I was still a young kid back then. Not an excuse, but it definitely could have been written with a more neutral tone if I were to write it now. Honestly I'm surprised it's still on the website. Not because of the information or how it was written, even back then BR had strict requirements when it came to your sources and references. I'm surprised because it was written before it was bought out by Turner. I figured old pieces like this would have been cleared out. The fact that it was considered good enough by the journalists that ran the site back then to post it was an honor. For it to be used as a reference now, is also an honor. Thank you.
I have the distinct suspicion that the University of Chicago, had it kept its football team through the 40's and 50's, would probably have gone the way of Tulane: increasingly uncompetitive and futile.
Who knows what impact the WWII years would have had. Georgia Southern (then Georgia Teacher's College) dropped its football program and didn't restart it until 1981.
There was a period in the 60's and 70's when being independent seemed like a good deal. Ga Tech, in addition to Dodd's beef with the SEC, felt going independent was not at all a step down. South Carolina willing left the ACC because they thought they would have a higher profile as an independent. Obviously those days ended some time ago for anyone not named Notre Dame.
@@weebs2it was a great stepping stone for us given that the PAC-12 didn’t want us and we were pretty much losing money in the MWC. But the goal of our independence always seemed to be to put ourselves on the national stage and score an invite into the power 5
This video is absolutely amazing! I’m a B1G guy (Go Green!) and I’ve wondered before how differently things would’ve turned out if Chicago stayed. I think MSU’s entry would’ve delayed because we became their replacement!
Yes! The Big 9 needed to reach an even number so MSU was a natural fit. On the other hand, the Spartans WERE a natural fit so maybe they lure Penn State early and become the Big 12 in the 50's. And then, butterfly effect, what does the Big 8 call themselves when they absorb 4 members of the Southwest Conference?
Tech's departure has become a print-the-myth article of faith, centering on scholarship disputes and Dodd's supposed desire to become the Notre Dame of the South. The AJC in particular has steadily endorsed this version. In fact, I did a lot of 'net research into contemporary coverage many years ago and it had a LOT to do with the SEC going to standardized scheduling in 1966. (This figured in with Tulane as well). Dodd was adamant about controlling Tech's scheduling and refused to play a league-mandated schedule that might have required his team to travel to the Mississippi schools or to Auburn (that series had been played almost exclusively in Atlanta until a few games in Birmingham around this time). Dodd was on record in the early sixties threatening to take out of the SEC over standardized scheduling at conference meetings, and finally did so when the future schedules were finalized. Vanderbilt also resisted this, and continued to refuse the league schedule (thus becoming ineligible for the SEC Championship, as if that mattered) until a final showdown (around 1970?) when Vandy nearly left as well.
100% correct. You recall that in 1978 when Tech was broke and desperately wanted back in the SEC it was the University of Mississippi and Mississippi State who lead the opposition to re-entry. 13:40 Also, in the 1950s and 1960 through 1963 Tech was going to bowls every season in an era when there were few bowls. SEC teams were required to share their Bowl payout with the conference. Todd believed that Tech could go independent and keep all it's Bowl money while traditional SEC opponents Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Alabama would continue to want to play it in Atlanta, the media center of the southeast. The "we are taking a principled stance for of kids" was the smokescreen for "we want all the money." I was alive when that happened and remember and, a few years ago went to the library to read the old news sources to refresh my memory.
@@ShaneGeeter I know you're right about the bowl money being part of it, too. I think the Holt-Graining (sic?) incident with Bama might even have contributed to bad blood. But it was a power play. The whole thing is overdue for a serious piece of journalism to put it all to rest. Trivia: I think 1965 was the transition year to standardized scheduling (hence Tech's departure at the end of 'the 63/'64 year), and since Georgia was unable to schedule the required number of conference games the Georgia-North Carolina game was counted towards the SEC Championship. Possibly UGA-Clemson one year, too.
@@ShaneGeeter I never realized all this. I've lived in South GA all my life and was on the path to becoming a big UGA fan in middle school (when they won the 1980 "mythical" national championship), but then Georgia Southern restarted football in 1981 under Erk Russell and I went there for college. From then on I've bled Eagle blue and white, so Tech never really rose very high on my football radar although my best friend in high school and his family were big fans. Thanks for the history lesson, things are usually more complicated than they seem on the surface.
Except he was adamant outspoken about the scholarships as well and there was evidence of the schools doing as he said and evidence of him jot doing that. What you said is only a little part of it and the scholarships definetly the main point. Bear Bryant backed out of his agreement with Dodd
Can you please make a history about the Yellow Jackets? Georgia Tech has one of the most interesting histories in college football. One of the oldest football fields and John Heisman became famous at Tech.
Can you do the History of the SEC and the big 10 since im so interested in them since i want to know how Alabama Michigan ohio state and LSU became huge
sewanee is actually one of these few schools i know about lmao. Mfs put together the best conference in sports history and then proceeded to go like 0-37 in that conference before saying "yeah I think were more of a d3 typa school"
Curious how OSU has anything to do with Chicago’s downfall. They already fell to 7th in 1914 (before OSU), and claimed another conference title in 1922 (after OSU). Also the “quintessential midwestern game” with Chicago would be against Michigan, as they were Chicago’s main rival and the biggest rivalry outside the Ivy at the time.
The video doesn't mention that Michigan left the B1G from 1907-1917. When they returned, the competition, recruiting, and business aspects of B1G FB took a large leap upward. By the 20's, national interest was intense, money commitments grew, and huge stadiums were built (pro football was just getting started). Besides Michigan, UC's dominance was challenged by Illinois, Minnesota, and OSU.
Tech has more than 1 national championship, including one in the modern era, and came very close to one in 2014. Tech's problem is that not only do you not have physical education as a major, ALL the majors are difficult compared to an average large state school. You just don't have basket weavers that are 5 star prospects at Tech. But there is no reason for them not to be competitive in the ACC - they can recruit in Atlanta, and some kids know that a Tech degree is a guaranteed high-paying job when the NFL doesn't come calling. But really, comparing results from the 1980s and later to the time before is just not possible. Everything everywhere (even at Tech) got dumbed down, because dumb players can still mean big green dollars.
Great insight, your other conference videos look interesting as well I will have to watch. Have a look into researching the short lived thought of a power conference of independents during the late 80's FSU, Miami, PSU, ND, Cuse, Pitt and a few others I believe. It might have been just one writers opinion, but I do remember something written in a season preview publication like Street and Smiths at the time. Keep up the good work.
One note - Chicago is still part of the B1G Research Consortium, which is a multi-billion dollar annual research group involving some of the country's most prestigious research universities.
As an Arkansas fan, I think it would have been better for us to have joined the big 12 as compared to the SEC. We dont consistently have a large pool of decent players in-state to join the ranks of the hogs, so it comes down to pandering to "steal" players [usually from other southern states], and we havent had a decent winning streak since coach Petrino, who got mixed up in some personal and/or legal troubles and was subsequently ousted as the head coach back in 2011. We havent been consistently decent since. Sure, there was hope with the current coach, but the season this year has been quite lackluster, and isnt expected to change as it plays notable teams like Ole Miss, Alabama, and Missouri to name a few. Simply put, Arkansas is somewhat a bit "out of its league" within the SEC. Sure, not as dismal as Vandy, but far, far from being even an above average team. Average is the best we can hope for, and that;s quite depressing. JMO !!!!!
Been to a few games in t-town when ark came yall always traveled well and when they got that pig soooeee going it was loud...wish yall the best over there...ROLL DAMN TIDE...
As an Ark guy, I feel they could do better in the Big 12, but I think they are only staying because the SEC has bigger exposure & would have better recruits, also Ark may have already predicted UT & TAMU leaving their conference
As a Kentucky fan were in the same boat football wise. Basketball were lucky an name Can recruit for us and yall are lucky bc yall now got Cal, who could recruit at MIT lol. But in football, weve been having to go steal Ohio States leftovers for years just not much top talent in Kentucky, its getting better but will never be at the level of Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, or Alabama HS football. And now we got Texas in here so life is gonna suck
I didn't include them mainly because a lot of folks don't consider the PCC-UWC-PAC line to be one unbroken line; though Montana definitely did leave of their own accord, but Idaho and the Griz weren't re-invited to the brand new PAC. It would definitely be an interesting what-if though if the PCC wasn't as hammered with scandals to the point where it needed to be dissolved and both Idaho and Montana stayed. They'd possibly grow to the point where they'd be big enough to stay P5, or they'd go back down to FCS eventually. Still an interesting thought experiment though
Drake, Grinnell and Washington Missouri were founded members of the Big 8 and left on their own. What could of been if they stay D1. Southwestern TX and Phillips were members of the SWC until they left on their own. What if they stayed in D1? Phillips would not shut down, and Southwestern kept their football, but they may have been forced to go to FCS. Idaho and Montana left on their own not coming back after the PAC 12 reformed. They did not want to be involved with the headache of the schools infighting with themselves. RMAC, SoCon and MVC were the original power conferences before some of the newer conferences formed. Washington and Lee, George Washington, Richmond, William and Mary, and Davidson were in SoCon before the ACC formed. They left on their own later on. Butler, Washington Missouri, Grinnell, Drake, Creighton, Washburn, Tulsa, Saint Louis were in the MVC at the time before it lost the power. Colorado Mines, Western Colorado, Colorado College, Denver, Utah State, Montana State, Wyoming, Colorado State and Northern Colorado were part of the RMAC when it was a power conference at the top since they spent time with Colorado, Utah and BYU back then. This was before the PAC 12, ACC, SEC, Big 6, Big 12 and Big East was even formed. They left, the conference never fell apart. Just lost that status. Those are the only examples from history with the major conferences that should be looked at. MVC, RMAC, SoCon were power conferences in the old days. Members left conferences before they disbanded.
funny enough, I had just been wondering how Tulane, LSU, Louisiana Tech, and Louisiana all wound up in different conferences when I came across this video. Good stuff. Also, go Cats
At 5:47 he wrote on the screen "lol before, Tulane left after they did". If you're watching on the phone and can't use space bar and back and forth to see it, it's a pain it is up so quick
There is also another bigger implication of Chicago staying in the B1G. MSU was not a member when they left, and only had the opprotunity to join as early as they did because Chicago created a vacancy. Perhaps MSU does not join the B1G until much later if Chicago stayed around, or falls off a bit after the Munn years and never gets the chance to become a football power--and who knows what that means for future B1G expansions you mention like Penn State or Nebraska.
@@HanBaby82 For two reasons: 1) MSU was offering the new-for-the-time Athletic Scholarships, while simultaneously 2) paying their FB players under-the-table.
re Magnolia League: I've also heard about a proposed Kudzu League with elite southern schools like Duke & Vandy. I do like the idea of a conference of private southern universities.
Football is still very important to Georgia tech and it’s culture. I think Georgia tech super regrets leaving the SEC. The Georgia rivalry and game is still a huge rivalry in football.
As a Tech fan, I’m of two minds wrt leaving the SEC. On the one hand, it would be nice (theoretically) to be better at football (and I’d love to forget the Collins era). On the other hand, having read Bobby Dodd’s words regarding the departure and having heard from Billy Martin (a family friend who played for Dodd in the early 60s) his thoughts on it, I’m proud Tech (Dodd) was willing to stick to his principles. Of course football has changed significantly even since the 60s and I don’t know how many 5 star athletes would be attracted to a school that would require at least 1 year of calculus (my understanding (he and I were freshmen the same year) Stephan Marbury couldn’t even pass the easiest math course Tech offers (Math for Management), though it didn’t matter because he was already on his way to the NBA). However, coming from a family of Auburn fans and being surrounded by illiterate bulldog fans, it would be nice not to hear the taunts of being in an inferior conference.
@@johng482 We can very easily laugh at Georgia and Auburn for their inferior academics, same with the rest of the ACC. The SEC is a footbal-focused conference whilst the ACC has good football and excellent academics, at least most of them. GT and Duke are far and away the best academic schools in the South.
Given the current transition to a Tier 1 P2, GATECH's exit was bad in hindsight. Nevertheless, the ACC provided a different brand from UGA, boosted basketball, and was a path to the 1990 football natty.
@@DracoFire3000 "GT and Duke are far and away the best academic schools in the South." A number of southern schools would object, including WAKE, UVA, MIAMI, UNC & VANDY. All of which are higher on the Altimore Graph.
@@tarheel7406 Of those, only UNC really comes close. Mentioning UVA and Miami is just hilarious, Vanderbilt is slightly worse, but only slightly, and wake is wishy-washy.
3:51- in case you were wondering, Auburn does not have a winning record against Vanderbilt, they are tied all time. Their meeting this year will swing it.
Vanderbilt had the best record of any school from 1900-1950. Auburn went something like 60 years without losing a game to Vanderbilt, but the two teams have just never played each other that often.
I feel like the magnolia conference would be cool with some fun matchups but Duke is better of with the ACC and at the time rice and SMU were better off with the Southwest conference
The University of the Pacific, Pete Carrol's old school should have copied the University of San Diego and gone FCS non-scholarship. They even had a stadium I do not think any school that dropped it lacks regrets.
They wish they had kept football. Especially at the FCS non-scholarship level that is the biggest group of students on campus. that is why football is growing on the NCAA division II, III and NAIA levels. UOP could probably field a decent team in the Pioneer League or even the Big Sky. Schools that dropped football don't give the traditional college experience with football in the fall. Many people still want it and alumni pay attention. I cannot believe some schools did not have sports e.g. Cal State San Bernardino, which went through a complete branding and U.C. Santa Cruz. Hope this helps. @@walterwhite1
Correction to the video. Harvard, the Vanderbilt of the north. I didn't look up who founded Tulane, but it wasn't Cornelius Vanderbilt, arguably the world's richest man at some point during his lifetime.
Paul Tulane was the founder of Tulane University, and, of course, he wasn't as wealthy as Cornelius Vanderbilt. Tulane has in fact consistently experienced financial issues since the beginning, and the school president at the time, in 1951, even used those as a reason to decrease the number of football scholarships, and thus set the program on a trajectory of experiencing dismal season after dismal season, which it did for almost all of the 1950s and 1960s, which ultimately led to the school officials believing in that becoming independent would work out better.
Wish the maroons stayed in the B1G. I mean how sick would a rivalry between northwestern and Chicago with northwestern representing the north side and UC representing the south side be.
I go to Tech. We left because our coach refused to strip away scholarships from some players to get under the scholarship cap. That's all there is to it.
I kind of miss the old power 6 - 7 and the regional format that is now lost. You could also have included Rice who were relevant into the early 60's. No they did not elect to leave the defuct SWC but are now the only former member to not be in the new Power 4.
Louisiana’s sports talent almost all goes to Louisiana State University. Many student athletes that LSU has would not be eligible to be enrolled at Tulane because they academic standard are fall below Tulane’s standards
At 4:25, The Southwestern Conference's collapse began with Arkansas leaving them and joining the SEC. Arkansas would never have had to join the Big 12.
No. The SWC was getting crippled by the entire conference except for Rice being on probation most years and was well on the way to collapse Before Arkansas left. Arkansas got out while the getting out was good.
@@creepycrespi8180were you even alive back then? The SWC was beset by scandal after scandal then. Quality of play suffered tremendously. The Cotton Bowl, a traditional New Year’s Top Four bowl, ceased to be meaningful and stopped being included in the national championship conversation. A storied program, SMU, was virtually destroyed and the writing was on the wall for some of the other SWC programs. Arkansas was the first to jump ship and the conference met its predictable demise a few years later.
@@creepycrespi8180 Yes, I was in Texas in the Air Force when SMU was handed the death penalty. If you were around then, you’d remember the Cotton Bowl’s fall from grace. The Cotton Bowl used to have national championship implications year after year. In the 80s, that changed as program after program in the SWC was put on probation. Arkansas bailed, having felt like an outsider being the only non-Texas school. The end came when four schools, who weren’t as hard hit by probation and were on top of the SWC’s pecking order, were invited to join the Big 8 schools to form the Big 12. The rest were consigned to lesser conferences and that was the first great FBS reorganization
If the big ten delays adding Nebraska, then they probably would've never joined because they lost their AAU membership shortly after joining (something I think all other b1g members have), and it has been said they wouldn't have been accepted if this happened before they joined.
@@joeym5243 What I said is accurate history. Whether the timing was determinative, I take no position. If the B1G knew that NEB would be expelled from the AAU when invited, why would it matter if it had happened before the invite? Some B1G members were among those pushing for the expulsion.
The ACC is a power conference. Over the last 20 years, the national champion in football has come from either the ACC or SEC 16 times. The other four were Texas (Big12) USC (PAC12) Ohio State (B1G) Michigan (B1G). So the ACC has more championships than the B1G, and three times as many as other conferences.
Magnolia League would have been a good idea. Vandy, Tulane, Rice, SMU, Duke, Georgia Tech. Vandy currently is not a great fit in the SEC. When they are decent at basketball they have more claim but as football drives conferences more and more I see Vandy remaining in the SEC more tenuous.
For the vast majority of universities, there is a tradeoff between athletics and academics. The vast majority of schools that lose tens of millions of dollars every year on football. They literally take money from academics to cover the operating deficit of football. Look at the NCAA data. Even among the few schools that make money, athletics sucks money and attention away from academics. NIL finally allows some of the $ to go to athletes, but the corrupt system directs nearly all of the $ (millions upon millions) to the coaches and administrators. And the proof that football causes long-term brain damage raises serious questions about the sport at institutions built to improve brains.
I agree more and more with all your points, but there are occasionally some clear cut examples of football programs really helping a school. Take Georgia Southern, which cut its program during World War II and restarted it in 1981 under immensely popular coach Erk Russell (who had been Vince Dooley's defensive coordinator at the University of Georgia). The school had less that 5,000 students but southeast Georgia hungered for a college football program to call their own. Erk helped mobilize local business leaders to form a very strong athletic boosters organization and got donors to fund and build a football stadium (we played at a local high school field the first few seasons). Heck even Burt Reynolds called out of the blue one day and offered to help out by paying for team uniforms. On the field we went from being a school club football team playing the Florida State JV team and the Jacksonville Magnum Force police team our first season to winning the 1-AA national championship on ESPN in 1985 (and 5 more times by 2000) and playing the famous "Hugo bowl" on ESPN on a Thursday night in 1989 with the hurricane bearing down on nearby South Carolina. This attracted alot of students from the Atlanta area. So within several years our enrollment had doubled and we were able to start massively expanding the number and sizes of buildings on campus. We eventually got to 20,000 students before the board of regents merger plan paired us with Armstrong in Savannah in 2018. In football we moved up from FCS (aka Division 1-AA) to FBS in 2014 which unfortunately meant that we went from being one of the elite teams in our division to just average (6 bowl appearances so far). Football has been very good to Georgia Southern in the last 40 years, but I think we're reaching a tipping point where that is starting to not be so true as the number of administrators and their pay has ballooned. American Colleges are facing a tough future with the demographic and tuition crisis. Georgia Southern's identity may be so closely aligned with football now that scaling down would not be contemplated even if it becomes a solution to problems.
I'm thinking about making one on the MWC, but JPJ made a phenomenal video on the WAC a short while ago that's phenomenal. I'd recommend you go see it if you haven't yet!
No one in the SEC has ever thought about adding West Virginia. It's a one-way street where West Virginia lobbied for years to be admitted to the conference.
Maryland leaving acc was huge. Lead to panic and atrocious acc grant of rights deal. Maryland leaving set off latest round of realignment that has crippled acc and destroyed pac 10
More complicated than that, but correct in a nutshell. It's not the GOR but the long media deal which was praised at the time but is now behind an unexpected inflation curve.
It's funny. I've always thought of Duke, Rice, Vandy, Ga Tech as elite schools in US, but Tulane as a half step below them on the ladder. So the academic argument for leaving the SEC seems odd.
My perception is that their idea, at the time, was to try taking a route of playing other southern private school programs, i.e., schools that featured strong academics, as opposed to being straight up football factories. How did the academics at Tulane University at the time compare against the academics at, e.g., Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech? Good question. I have no idea whether they were close or whether they weren't. Nonetheless, it seems clear that the leadership of Tulane University held the idea that they already knew that the state university programs in the SEC were operating on a premise of winning games being paramount, from which Tulane had already shifted away completely, and so there was an irreconcilable difference and only pure futility ahead, on the field, under those conditions.
In the SEC: -- Academically, Vanderbilt, UGA, UF, Texas, and Texas A&M are all ranked above Tulane. -- UGA now has the same ACT / SAT / GPA averages as Tech (32 ACT; 4.0 GPA). UGA simply has much more attractive women, a more picturesque campus, a superior college town, and better athletics.
Tulane simply lacked foresight. Dropping football is usually a mistake. Football makes the college experience. Homecoming with soccer? Please. Even Georgetown with its high academics has a team now.
i dont even care if they go FCS tbh i just want chicago proper to have an actual d1 football team. unless chicago state actually goes through with their plan to start one
@@ohwaitchristian…Evanston doesn’t count as “proper”? it’s like saying Boston doesn’t have a team in Division 1 because they’re not in Boston proper(there isn’t, BC is actually on the city line in another city)
A southern Ivy league would be cool. TULANE, RICE, SMU, VANDERBILT, DUKE, TCU, MIAMI, and AUBURN would a good league. They might not real ivy league but good enough private schools.
@@spankynater4242 Reality clearly tells us there are tradeoffs. This tradeoff is painfully clear for the vast majority of schools that lose tens of millions of dollars every year on football. They literally take money from academics to cover the operating deficit of football. Look at the NCAA data. Even among the few schools that make money, athletics sucks money and attention away from academics.
Born and raised in Georgia and never really been a Tech fan, but I was proud of how well Paul Johnson did there with the Flexbone offense after he won two I-AA National Championships at Georgia Southern as head coach and another couple in an earlier stint as offensive coordinator.
For the first time in probably a long Tim LSU was named the best school academically in the state of Louisiana this year also Tulane is the number one party school in the nation
Who votes? My reference for general academics and athletics is the graph found at the ~12 minute mark in the vid titled: "Big 12 Expansion Stats and Facts Breakdown | Conference Realignment | Tony Altimore x 365 Sports" Per that academic measure, which is a blend of metrics, TULANE would be in the top group in the SEC while LSU is in the standard bottom half. For additional context, TULANE would be average in the ACC/B1G but would be the best in the new BIG12.
I'm still struggling with the idea that in the middle of the last century Tulane considered itself the Harvard of the South, and they believe that leaving the SEC helped the university academically. Does Tulane still think of itself as the Harvard of the South?
You didn't mention bear Bryant with Georgia tech. He made an agreement with Bobby Dodd and then walked out last minute. It was the reason he beefed with Alabama. Bryant walked out last minute.
If Tulane was to stay in the SEC without being kicked out, they would’ve had to never make those cuts in 51’. If they do that, the Green Wave are trash in the 50’s and maybe even 60’s, but Tulane’s increased recruiting power (even with LSU) may help their football program revive in the 70’s in the SEC (73’ Peach Bowl appearance?), and they probably have a golden age in the 2000’s if they keep Tommy Bowden. I doubt they would be close to a Vanderbilt. They may even have an extra Cotton Bowl win in 1998 in their arsenal. Side note: PAC-16 is very possible in this timeline as well, with FSU and Texas A&M joining the SEC in 2010, and Texas likely leaving the Big 12 for a super conference because of it.
North Central College, current Chicago area D3 powerhouse, has won a few Stagg bowls in the past few years… I’m waiting for them to move up divisions soon
It is crazy how things could have been if these teams didn't leave. I believe Chicago also have a automatic bid back to the B1G if they ever decide to rejoin. But I do hope a team like Tulane can join the Big 12 or the ACC and rejoin a power conference.
as someone who goes to uchicago i really doubt we'd have an automatic bid, we would have to REALLY upgrade everything about our athletics spending millions of dollars doing so, and that isnt the schools focus right now.
That Georgia Tech information was WILD!... About, after leaving the SEC, the enrollment, alumni, and population more than tripled yet the average GT football attendance for 2010 was less than in 1963 when they were in the SEC.
I wonder if Georgia State's 15,000 fans per home game drain much from Tech? Georgia Southern's 25,000 per home game probably drain at least a few who would otherwise make the drive.
The term "Power 5" didn't exist back then. That term came around in the BCS era. The University of Chicago is exactly where they would have been. The only way they could have prayed to remain Div. 1 (FCS) is if they could have gotten into the Ivy League.
Chicago ended up in the 80s in a Div III Ivy League called the University Athletic Association with other former Div 1 academic universities (Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, University of Rochester, and WashU-St. Louis), and others that didn't have football (NYU, Brandeis, Emory, and Johns Hopkins). Currently, all these schools (except Johns Hopkins, which left) play in all sports except football, and Chicago is competitive in most sports against UAA and non-UAA teams, including winning the NCAA Div. III men's soccer title last year.
@@senton412I don't think this is true. doing a bit of research it seems half the conference still plays football, just as members of different conferences.
My friend who went to Tech tells me every football season he wishes GT had never left the SEC. We usually go to a Tech game every year and he'll bring up how it'd be nicer to see Tennessee, Alabama, or a team like that as opposed to... I think it was Virginia we saw last time.
Football is good revenue in power conferences, however research and alumni donations are more important. Look at the universities with the largest endowments. Only Stanford, Northwestern, and Duke have Power 5 football and the rest are all D3. Northwestern makes at least 10x the revenue on research than it makes in sports.
@@fecat93 I have heard similar stories about Vandy. Still, Vandy really, in a way, just leaches off the SEC and frankly SEC likes them for tradition and the easy win so they don't go anywhere. Tulane could be the same boat. It is leaving $$$ on the table. Vandy didn't do all of the upgrades cited in this video but they stayed in the SEC, unlike Tulane, and now they collect the checks from that as well as the endowments and Vandy, in many ways, is even more prestige than Tulane with regard to Academics.
@@volbound1700Well Vandy is strong in basically everything BUT football, that’s why they’re in. They have a competent football team that can get smacked around by the elite, but the SEC relies on Vandy as the leader in baseball and a core basketball member, as well as all of the academic achievements
They are very bad in Men's Basketball as well and towards the bottom of SEC all time. I ranked SEC teams in Basketball several years back scoring based on SEC Championships and NCAA Tournament appearances and runs and Vandy was 12 of 14
In 1964-65, the TV revenue wasn't the factor that it would eventually become, and then that evolution really only started to become a story in college football about 20 years later. Tulane only knew that the fans weren't going to show up for a team that was winning around 2-3 games every year.
Chicago's leadership said that it became impossible to win without sacrificing academic integrity and outright cheating. They were right. Chicago decided to focus on academics (the mission), and it won easily on that front. Chicago has all the $ they need and more, and Chicago's academics is on another stratosphere than any SEC university. So they won. In fact the SEC has the worst academics among any power five conference, by far. And aren't universities supposed to be about academics?
The idea is sports = money, and money is used to improve academics. The success of a team like the Tide brings in money not only for sports but for the university to pay for upgrades to dorms and classrooms and other facilities.
@@kdog2646 I have to rely some on reputation and the Altimore chart that I reference. Of the 4 elite private P4 "cap feathers" (the others being STANFORD, DUKE & NWEST), VANDY is the lowest.
If the Unversity of Chicago stayed with the big 10. Notre Dame would not have had the success that they had in their history. Notre Dame has benefitted back in the day from Chicago talent
I think Chicago also had a scandal in college basketball that the Big 10 did not want to be associated with. I could be wrong though, and thinking of another school
Sometimes, one must think beyond the importance of toting a prolate shaped ball up and down a gridiron. UIC defuncted football program's stadium became the first nuclear research laboratory. Contributed to the development of the A-bomb and truncated the second world war.
U of C (University of Chicago), not UIC (University of Illinois-Chicago). Two different schools about 10 miles apart geographically, and worlds apart academically.
I’m curious if Tulane will find itself in the ACC eventually. Academic fit ✅, Geographic fit (now) ✅, competitive fit ✅. The next round of realignment will be very interesting and I think it’ll def include Tulane
The ACC will be dead.
they seem pretty content in the AAC though, I feel like they are likely to stay a few years to get a gauge before taking an option. It also depends on if Fritz is still the head coach too.
Competitive fit?
Bro they were just 2-10 2 seasons ago losing to Tulsa and Memphis
2022 was their first season with more than 7 win since 2002
@@zappbrannigan2415 Losing to Memphis would probably be their best loss imo
Tulane is not on the Atlantic Coast lol
As a person who played DIII football in University of Chicago’s conference. They usually always have a solid team. Yea they’re not D1 anymore but they dominate and are usually always top 3 in the midwest conference. Real good academics and had a good football team, so i can agree that they’re doing fine rn.
When was their last D3 playoff appearance? And when was their last deep D3 playoff run where they won a couple rounds?
I grew up near Mount Union. Which is a D3 blue blood. I don’t recall Chicago being a factor come playoff time in my life. I could be wrong or not remembering though.
However, nearby North Central I’m definitely familiar with. Also, nearby Wheaton I can recall having some success too over the years. Different conference though but both near Chicago nonetheless.
@@zacheryhardie9313they haven’t, I lived in northern Illinois my entire life NEVER heard of anyone wanting to go to Chicago for football, I’ve heard Loyola and whitewater but not Chicago
@@david-468it’s like going to Harvard or Yale for football it’s stupid lmao. Honestly how Stanford is still d1 is a mystery.
@@CelabWilliams-gb6rmHarvard is d1
@@georgehenan853 shoulda rephrased to “idk how Stanford is fbs.” Harvard is not fbs.
Sewanee was actually an early football powerhouse in the predecessor conference to the SEC ( and ACC).
look up the 1899 Sewanee team
@@jonathanross149they wear good yes but Harvard won the college football national tital that year
@@john-mc4zo
Harvard didn’t win any such thing. There was no national championship in those days. As a matter of fact, there still isn’t an official NCAA national champion in college football at the FBS level. It’s only a “CLAIMED MYTHICAL” championship and nothing more. Hence in the video itself, as it said Chicago “CLAIMS” 2 national championships in college football. Suwanee could “CLAIM” the 1899 national championship just like Harvard does if they chose too. Personally, after looking at the accomplishments for both teams for that year…well there’s a very real reason as to why the 1899 Suwanee team is considered as being one of the greatest teams in the history of college football. Yet you never hear any mention of that being said about the 1899 Harvard team !!
When it comes to “MYTHICAL” college football national championships at the FBS level, well schools can literally “CLAIM” whatever they want, just simply because there isn’t a governing body that prevents them from being able to do it. Again, the NCAA doesn’t award or recognize an NCAA national champion in college football at the FBS level…therefore they don’t care what a school “CLAIMS” when it comes to “MYTHICAL” FBS football national championships !!
@@bigbossman3987no one thinks a 1899 team was one of the best ever, put the meth down, 2019 lsu clears any college team not even close
@satisfactors there's actually plenty of people and writers that claim 1899 Sewanee is one of the greatest. Period. Outscored their opponents 322-10.
Great video. I really like how you acknowledge the academic benefits of the moves too. As football fans, I think that often gets lost in the discussion when college football fans focused on sports, but these are universities whose first priority is academics at the end of the day.
Fair enough, but there are also football powerhouse schools that are also academic powerhouses as well. You can have it both ways in some places.
Nobody gives a crap about academics when it comes time to sign television and merchandising deals.
Nobody cares about Stan in Writing 102.
@@theecharmingbilly Well the people signing the deals definitely cared about their academics.
@@FyrFytr998very few. Michigan. That’s truthfully it. Stanford isn’t a powerhouse, duke, Vanderbilt, Virginia, rice, northwestern Tulane none are football powerhouse. And public school wise, Washington Texas and Georgia are top tier public schools dominant in sports but, Washington doesn’t carry as much weight on the east coast, Texas is generally good but only elite in Texas, and Georgia education is elite for the south,
Joshua Williams here. Surprised to be used as a source. I was still a young kid back then. Not an excuse, but it definitely could have been written with a more neutral tone if I were to write it now. Honestly I'm surprised it's still on the website. Not because of the information or how it was written, even back then BR had strict requirements when it came to your sources and references. I'm surprised because it was written before it was bought out by Turner. I figured old pieces like this would have been cleared out.
The fact that it was considered good enough by the journalists that ran the site back then to post it was an honor. For it to be used as a reference now, is also an honor. Thank you.
That’s pretty cool! It’s nice to see you acknowledge the tone but it definitely is a good source.
I have the distinct suspicion that the University of Chicago, had it kept its football team through the 40's and 50's, would probably have gone the way of Tulane: increasingly uncompetitive and futile.
Who knows what impact the WWII years would have had. Georgia Southern (then Georgia Teacher's College) dropped its football program and didn't restart it until 1981.
There was a period in the 60's and 70's when being independent seemed like a good deal. Ga Tech, in addition to Dodd's beef with the SEC, felt going independent was not at all a step down. South Carolina willing left the ACC because they thought they would have a higher profile as an independent. Obviously those days ended some time ago for anyone not named Notre Dame.
I feel that even for ND those days will be fewer in number if we continue the move towards super conferences.
It took a ton of resources but it seemed to pay off for BYU as well
@@weebs2it was a great stepping stone for us given that the PAC-12 didn’t want us and we were pretty much losing money in the MWC. But the goal of our independence always seemed to be to put ourselves on the national stage and score an invite into the power 5
@@TheDJ42The PAC 12 wanted them but BYU didn’t want the TV deal they had at the time
@@thedankpanda8995no, the california schools wanted no part of BYU.
Your cfb videos are great. Hope the YT algorithm picks you up soon. You'd definitely deserve it.
bro got that 200k sub quality with only 3k 🥲
That’s how I found him
Very well said. Luckily the algorithm hmu a few weeks back
Bobby Dodd was right. The rest of the SEC did kick kids out of school and ruin their lives without them having a chance to get their degrees.
what?
This video is absolutely amazing! I’m a B1G guy (Go Green!) and I’ve wondered before how differently things would’ve turned out if Chicago stayed. I think MSU’s entry would’ve delayed because we became their replacement!
Yes! The Big 9 needed to reach an even number so MSU was a natural fit. On the other hand, the Spartans WERE a natural fit so maybe they lure Penn State early and become the Big 12 in the 50's. And then, butterfly effect, what does the Big 8 call themselves when they absorb 4 members of the Southwest Conference?
Worth Noting Georgia Tech won another National championship after they left the SEC.
Just noticed it was listed in the annotations
it wasnt unanimous though. they just had a share of it
Yeah split it with Colorado.
@@evanwilliams8627 A team that has no rightful claim because of the 5th down game.
@@ssmith7074 I get it. But at the end of the day, it’s a co Championship on the books.
Tech's departure has become a print-the-myth article of faith, centering on scholarship disputes and Dodd's supposed desire to become the Notre Dame of the South. The AJC in particular has steadily endorsed this version. In fact, I did a lot of 'net research into contemporary coverage many years ago and it had a LOT to do with the SEC going to standardized scheduling in 1966. (This figured in with Tulane as well). Dodd was adamant about controlling Tech's scheduling and refused to play a league-mandated schedule that might have required his team to travel to the Mississippi schools or to Auburn (that series had been played almost exclusively in Atlanta until a few games in Birmingham around this time). Dodd was on record in the early sixties threatening to take out of the SEC over standardized scheduling at conference meetings, and finally did so when the future schedules were finalized. Vanderbilt also resisted this, and continued to refuse the league schedule (thus becoming ineligible for the SEC Championship, as if that mattered) until a final showdown (around 1970?) when Vandy nearly left as well.
100% correct. You recall that in 1978 when Tech was broke and desperately wanted back in the SEC it was the University of Mississippi and Mississippi State who lead the opposition to re-entry. 13:40 Also, in the 1950s and 1960 through 1963 Tech was going to bowls every season in an era when there were few bowls. SEC teams were required to share their Bowl payout with the conference. Todd believed that Tech could go independent and keep all it's Bowl money while traditional SEC opponents Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Alabama would continue to want to play it in Atlanta, the media center of the southeast. The "we are taking a principled stance for of kids" was the smokescreen for "we want all the money." I was alive when that happened and remember and, a few years ago went to the library to read the old news sources to refresh my memory.
@@ShaneGeeter I know you're right about the bowl money being part of it, too. I think the Holt-Graining (sic?) incident with Bama might even have contributed to bad blood. But it was a power play. The whole thing is overdue for a serious piece of journalism to put it all to rest. Trivia: I think 1965 was the transition year to standardized scheduling (hence Tech's departure at the end of 'the 63/'64 year), and since Georgia was unable to schedule the required number of conference games the Georgia-North Carolina game was counted towards the SEC Championship. Possibly UGA-Clemson one year, too.
@@ShaneGeeter I never realized all this. I've lived in South GA all my life and was on the path to becoming a big UGA fan in middle school (when they won the 1980 "mythical" national championship), but then Georgia Southern restarted football in 1981 under Erk Russell and I went there for college. From then on I've bled Eagle blue and white, so Tech never really rose very high on my football radar although my best friend in high school and his family were big fans. Thanks for the history lesson, things are usually more complicated than they seem on the surface.
Except he was adamant outspoken about the scholarships as well and there was evidence of the schools doing as he said and evidence of him jot doing that. What you said is only a little part of it and the scholarships definetly the main point. Bear Bryant backed out of his agreement with Dodd
@@kdog2646 Outspoken or not, what he said and what his real motivations were are separate matters. But no worries, the legend is safe!
Always a great job. Thank you for making quality content!
Can you please make a history about the Yellow Jackets? Georgia Tech has one of the most interesting histories in college football. One of the oldest football fields and John Heisman became famous at Tech.
Now Chicago’s Baseball, Soccer, and Track & Field all share the same field. We played them and twice javelins ended up on the field 😂
Can you do the History of the SEC and the big 10 since im so interested in them since i want to know how Alabama Michigan ohio state and LSU became huge
Use commas.
This was very entertaining and well done. Please keep making these videos!
sewanee is actually one of these few schools i know about lmao. Mfs put together the best conference in sports history and then proceeded to go like 0-37 in that conference before saying "yeah I think were more of a d3 typa school"
funny thing is that is Vandy's only rival that they have a winning record over.
Curious how OSU has anything to do with Chicago’s downfall. They already fell to 7th in 1914 (before OSU), and claimed another conference title in 1922 (after OSU).
Also the “quintessential midwestern game” with Chicago would be against Michigan, as they were Chicago’s main rival and the biggest rivalry outside the Ivy at the time.
The video doesn't mention that Michigan left the B1G from 1907-1917. When they returned, the competition, recruiting, and business aspects of B1G FB took a large leap upward. By the 20's, national interest was intense, money commitments grew, and huge stadiums were built (pro football was just getting started). Besides Michigan, UC's dominance was challenged by Illinois, Minnesota, and OSU.
Great video dalukes, wonder when we will get a history of the big ten and sec videos.
Bro I watched the big 12 vid and then I saw this dude only had 4K SUBS?!?! Crazy underrated channel. Keep up the great work my guy!
Tech has more than 1 national championship, including one in the modern era, and came very close to one in 2014. Tech's problem is that not only do you not have physical education as a major, ALL the majors are difficult compared to an average large state school. You just don't have basket weavers that are 5 star prospects at Tech. But there is no reason for them not to be competitive in the ACC - they can recruit in Atlanta, and some kids know that a Tech degree is a guaranteed high-paying job when the NFL doesn't come calling. But really, comparing results from the 1980s and later to the time before is just not possible. Everything everywhere (even at Tech) got dumbed down, because dumb players can still mean big green dollars.
One of the things I'm proud about Tech. Their athletes can read.
Criminally underrated, you gotta get more view
i’ll watch again because i like ur videos that much. keep it up even if ur a ksu guy.
Respect it for the Big Red pfp 🤝
Great insight, your other conference videos look interesting as well I will have to watch. Have a look into researching the short lived thought of a power conference of independents during the late 80's FSU, Miami, PSU, ND, Cuse, Pitt and a few others I believe. It might have been just one writers opinion, but I do remember something written in a season preview publication like Street and Smiths at the time. Keep up the good work.
One note - Chicago is still part of the B1G Research Consortium, which is a multi-billion dollar annual research group involving some of the country's most prestigious research universities.
As an Arkansas fan, I think it would have been better for us to have joined the big 12 as compared to the SEC. We dont consistently have a large pool of decent players in-state to join the ranks of the hogs, so it comes down to pandering to "steal" players [usually from other southern states], and we havent had a decent winning streak since coach Petrino, who got mixed up in some personal and/or legal troubles and was subsequently ousted as the head coach back in 2011.
We havent been consistently decent since. Sure, there was hope with the current coach, but the season this year has been quite lackluster, and isnt expected to change as it plays notable teams like Ole Miss, Alabama, and Missouri to name a few.
Simply put, Arkansas is somewhat a bit "out of its league" within the SEC. Sure, not as dismal as Vandy, but far, far from being even an above average team. Average is the best we can hope for, and that;s quite depressing. JMO !!!!!
Been to a few games in t-town when ark came yall always traveled well and when they got that pig soooeee going it was loud...wish yall the best over there...ROLL DAMN TIDE...
As an Ark guy, I feel they could do better in the Big 12, but I think they are only staying because the SEC has bigger exposure & would have better recruits, also Ark may have already predicted UT & TAMU leaving their conference
As a Kentucky fan were in the same boat football wise. Basketball were lucky an name Can recruit for us and yall are lucky bc yall now got Cal, who could recruit at MIT lol. But in football, weve been having to go steal Ohio States leftovers for years just not much top talent in Kentucky, its getting better but will never be at the level of Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, or Alabama HS football. And now we got Texas in here so life is gonna suck
@@Hookiedookie123Coach Cal at MIT? I think you mean UMass.
@@patrickmcdaniel2048 no im saying Cal could recruit even if he were at MIT
Don’t forget Idaho and Montana who were members of the PCC (The Pac)
I didn't include them mainly because a lot of folks don't consider the PCC-UWC-PAC line to be one unbroken line; though Montana definitely did leave of their own accord, but Idaho and the Griz weren't re-invited to the brand new PAC.
It would definitely be an interesting what-if though if the PCC wasn't as hammered with scandals to the point where it needed to be dissolved and both Idaho and Montana stayed. They'd possibly grow to the point where they'd be big enough to stay P5, or they'd go back down to FCS eventually. Still an interesting thought experiment though
Drake, Grinnell and Washington Missouri were founded members of the Big 8 and left on their own. What could of been if they stay D1. Southwestern TX and Phillips were members of the SWC until they left on their own. What if they stayed in D1? Phillips would not shut down, and Southwestern kept their football, but they may have been forced to go to FCS.
Idaho and Montana left on their own not coming back after the PAC 12 reformed. They did not want to be involved with the headache of the schools infighting with themselves.
RMAC, SoCon and MVC were the original power conferences before some of the newer conferences formed.
Washington and Lee, George Washington, Richmond, William and Mary, and Davidson were in SoCon before the ACC formed. They left on their own later on.
Butler, Washington Missouri, Grinnell, Drake, Creighton, Washburn, Tulsa, Saint Louis were in the MVC at the time before it lost the power.
Colorado Mines, Western Colorado, Colorado College, Denver, Utah State, Montana State, Wyoming, Colorado State and Northern Colorado were part of the RMAC when it was a power conference at the top since they spent time with Colorado, Utah and BYU back then. This was before the PAC 12, ACC, SEC, Big 6, Big 12 and Big East was even formed. They left, the conference never fell apart. Just lost that status.
Those are the only examples from history with the major conferences that should be looked at. MVC, RMAC, SoCon were power conferences in the old days. Members left conferences before they disbanded.
funny enough, I had just been wondering how Tulane, LSU, Louisiana Tech, and Louisiana all wound up in different conferences when I came across this video. Good stuff. Also, go Cats
At 5:47 he wrote on the screen "lol before, Tulane left after they did". If you're watching on the phone and can't use space bar and back and forth to see it, it's a pain it is up so quick
This channel will be big.. don’t stop you got something special here
There is also another bigger implication of Chicago staying in the B1G. MSU was not a member when they left, and only had the opprotunity to join as early as they did because Chicago created a vacancy. Perhaps MSU does not join the B1G until much later if Chicago stayed around, or falls off a bit after the Munn years and never gets the chance to become a football power--and who knows what that means for future B1G expansions you mention like Penn State or Nebraska.
U of M voted to keep MSU out of the Big 10
@@HanBaby82 For two reasons: 1) MSU was offering the new-for-the-time Athletic Scholarships, while simultaneously 2) paying their FB players under-the-table.
re Magnolia League: I've also heard about a proposed Kudzu League with elite southern schools like Duke & Vandy. I do like the idea of a conference of private southern universities.
Me looking at the thumbnail. What in the world is the Cincinnati Reds doing on there???😂😂😂
Football is still very important to Georgia tech and it’s culture. I think Georgia tech super regrets leaving the SEC. The Georgia rivalry and game is still a huge rivalry in football.
As a Tech fan, I’m of two minds wrt leaving the SEC. On the one hand, it would be nice (theoretically) to be better at football (and I’d love to forget the Collins era). On the other hand, having read Bobby Dodd’s words regarding the departure and having heard from Billy Martin (a family friend who played for Dodd in the early 60s) his thoughts on it, I’m proud Tech (Dodd) was willing to stick to his principles.
Of course football has changed significantly even since the 60s and I don’t know how many 5 star athletes would be attracted to a school that would require at least 1 year of calculus (my understanding (he and I were freshmen the same year) Stephan Marbury couldn’t even pass the easiest math course Tech offers (Math for Management), though it didn’t matter because he was already on his way to the NBA). However, coming from a family of Auburn fans and being surrounded by illiterate bulldog fans, it would be nice not to hear the taunts of being in an inferior conference.
@@johng482 We can very easily laugh at Georgia and Auburn for their inferior academics, same with the rest of the ACC. The SEC is a footbal-focused conference whilst the ACC has good football and excellent academics, at least most of them. GT and Duke are far and away the best academic schools in the South.
Given the current transition to a Tier 1 P2, GATECH's exit was bad in hindsight. Nevertheless, the ACC provided a different brand from UGA, boosted basketball, and was a path to the 1990 football natty.
@@DracoFire3000 "GT and Duke are far and away the best academic schools in the South."
A number of southern schools would object, including WAKE, UVA, MIAMI, UNC & VANDY. All of which are higher on the Altimore Graph.
@@tarheel7406 Of those, only UNC really comes close. Mentioning UVA and Miami is just hilarious, Vanderbilt is slightly worse, but only slightly, and wake is wishy-washy.
3:51- in case you were wondering, Auburn does not have a winning record against Vanderbilt, they are tied all time. Their meeting this year will swing it.
Vanderbilt had the best record of any school from 1900-1950. Auburn went something like 60 years without losing a game to Vanderbilt, but the two teams have just never played each other that often.
I feel like the magnolia conference would be cool with some fun matchups but Duke is better of with the ACC and at the time rice and SMU were better off with the Southwest conference
Magnolia would probably be Duke, Tulane, Rice, SMU, Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, Vandy, Miami
The University of the Pacific, Pete Carrol's old school should have copied the University of San Diego and gone FCS non-scholarship. They even had a stadium I do not think any school that dropped it lacks regrets.
What does that mean
They wish they had kept football. Especially at the FCS non-scholarship level that is the biggest group of students on campus. that is why football is growing on the NCAA division II, III and NAIA levels. UOP could probably field a decent team in the Pioneer League or even the Big Sky. Schools that dropped football don't give the traditional college experience with football in the fall. Many people still want it and alumni pay attention. I cannot believe some schools did not have sports e.g. Cal State San Bernardino, which went through a complete branding and U.C. Santa Cruz. Hope this helps. @@walterwhite1
Correction to the video. Harvard, the Vanderbilt of the north. I didn't look up who founded Tulane, but it wasn't Cornelius Vanderbilt, arguably the world's richest man at some point during his lifetime.
There is a reason why no one liked your post. But I’m pretty sure a Rothschild has more money than Vanderbilt ever had
Paul Tulane was the founder of Tulane University, and, of course, he wasn't as wealthy as Cornelius Vanderbilt. Tulane has in fact consistently experienced financial issues since the beginning, and the school president at the time, in 1951, even used those as a reason to decrease the number of football scholarships, and thus set the program on a trajectory of experiencing dismal season after dismal season, which it did for almost all of the 1950s and 1960s, which ultimately led to the school officials believing in that becoming independent would work out better.
Wish the maroons stayed in the B1G. I mean how sick would a rivalry between northwestern and Chicago with northwestern representing the north side and UC representing the south side be.
1:52 - That IS the best name for a student newspaper 😂
Can you do a video on university of Idaho?
I go to Tech. We left because our coach refused to strip away scholarships from some players to get under the scholarship cap. That's all there is to it.
You played ball at tech? I’m UF grad *C/96* #48 😊
@@gregd4633what does playing ball have to do anything?
I kind of miss the old power 6 - 7 and the regional format that is now lost. You could also have included Rice who were relevant into the early 60's. No they did not elect to leave the defuct SWC but are now the only former member to not be in the new Power 4.
Louisiana’s sports talent almost all goes to Louisiana State University. Many student athletes that LSU has would not be eligible to be enrolled at Tulane because they academic standard are fall below Tulane’s standards
At 4:25, The Southwestern Conference's collapse began with Arkansas leaving them and joining the SEC. Arkansas would never have had to join the Big 12.
No. The SWC was getting crippled by the entire conference except for Rice being on probation most years and was well on the way to collapse Before Arkansas left. Arkansas got out while the getting out was good.
@@craigrohn9938 no
@@creepycrespi8180were you even alive back then? The SWC was beset by scandal after scandal then. Quality of play suffered tremendously. The Cotton Bowl, a traditional New Year’s Top Four bowl, ceased to be meaningful and stopped being included in the national championship conversation. A storied program, SMU, was virtually destroyed and the writing was on the wall for some of the other SWC programs. Arkansas was the first to jump ship and the conference met its predictable demise a few years later.
@@craigrohn9938 i am 65 years old and i remember what happened. were you alive then.?
@@creepycrespi8180 Yes, I was in Texas in the Air Force when SMU was handed the death penalty. If you were around then, you’d remember the Cotton Bowl’s fall from grace. The Cotton Bowl used to have national championship implications year after year. In the 80s, that changed as program after program in the SWC was put on probation. Arkansas bailed, having felt like an outsider being the only non-Texas school. The end came when four schools, who weren’t as hard hit by probation and were on top of the SWC’s pecking order, were invited to join the Big 8 schools to form the Big 12. The rest were consigned to lesser conferences and that was the first great FBS reorganization
Both schools would be a better fit for the sec
Than Oklahoma or Texas
If the big ten delays adding Nebraska, then they probably would've never joined because they lost their AAU membership shortly after joining (something I think all other b1g members have), and it has been said they wouldn't have been accepted if this happened before they joined.
Most B10 schools have 50%+ acceptance rates. AAU means nothing - those bumpkin cornbread schools will accept anyone with a pulse in the Midwest.
NEB's expulsion from the AAU had already started and was a near certainty. The B1G made a de facto exception for NEB.
@@tarheel7406 The former (then current) Nebraska chancellor said this though, so I am not really inclined to believe what you're saying sadly
@@joeym5243 What I said is accurate history. Whether the timing was determinative, I take no position. If the B1G knew that NEB would be expelled from the AAU when invited, why would it matter if it had happened before the invite? Some B1G members were among those pushing for the expulsion.
The big 10 doesn’t care about that anymore. They care about money and brand appeal, both of which Nebraska brings.
Why does the Tulane mascot look like an angry germ ?
The ACC is a power conference. Over the last 20 years, the national champion in football has come from either the ACC or SEC 16 times. The other four were Texas (Big12) USC (PAC12) Ohio State (B1G) Michigan (B1G). So the ACC has more championships than the B1G, and three times as many as other conferences.
Magnolia League would have been a good idea. Vandy, Tulane, Rice, SMU, Duke, Georgia Tech. Vandy currently is not a great fit in the SEC. When they are decent at basketball they have more claim but as football drives conferences more and more I see Vandy remaining in the SEC more tenuous.
VANDY uses their cut of the money to fund their hospital and I hope they never leave.
I keep getting this feeling that within the next 20 years there's only going to be 2 conferences, SEC and Big 10 the way things are going.
there is no way a 40 team super conference stays afloat and if that happens they'll just fragment again
For the vast majority of universities, there is a tradeoff between athletics and academics. The vast majority of schools that lose tens of millions of dollars every year on football. They literally take money from academics to cover the operating deficit of football. Look at the NCAA data. Even among the few schools that make money, athletics sucks money and attention away from academics. NIL finally allows some of the $ to go to athletes, but the corrupt system directs nearly all of the $ (millions upon millions) to the coaches and administrators. And the proof that football causes long-term brain damage raises serious questions about the sport at institutions built to improve brains.
I agree more and more with all your points, but there are occasionally some clear cut examples of football programs really helping a school. Take Georgia Southern, which cut its program during World War II and restarted it in 1981 under immensely popular coach Erk Russell (who had been Vince Dooley's defensive coordinator at the University of Georgia). The school had less that 5,000 students but southeast Georgia hungered for a college football program to call their own. Erk helped mobilize local business leaders to form a very strong athletic boosters organization and got donors to fund and build a football stadium (we played at a local high school field the first few seasons). Heck even Burt Reynolds called out of the blue one day and offered to help out by paying for team uniforms.
On the field we went from being a school club football team playing the Florida State JV team and the Jacksonville Magnum Force police team our first season to winning the 1-AA national championship on ESPN in 1985 (and 5 more times by 2000) and playing the famous "Hugo bowl" on ESPN on a Thursday night in 1989 with the hurricane bearing down on nearby South Carolina. This attracted alot of students from the Atlanta area.
So within several years our enrollment had doubled and we were able to start massively expanding the number and sizes of buildings on campus. We eventually got to 20,000 students before the board of regents merger plan paired us with Armstrong in Savannah in 2018.
In football we moved up from FCS (aka Division 1-AA) to FBS in 2014 which unfortunately meant that we went from being one of the elite teams in our division to just average (6 bowl appearances so far). Football has been very good to Georgia Southern in the last 40 years, but I think we're reaching a tipping point where that is starting to not be so true as the number of administrators and their pay has ballooned. American Colleges are facing a tough future with the demographic and tuition crisis. Georgia Southern's identity may be so closely aligned with football now that scaling down would not be contemplated even if it becomes a solution to problems.
Have you done a video on the history of the WAC or MWC yet?
I'm thinking about making one on the MWC, but JPJ made a phenomenal video on the WAC a short while ago that's phenomenal. I'd recommend you go see it if you haven't yet!
No one in the SEC has ever thought about adding West Virginia. It's a one-way street where West Virginia lobbied for years to be admitted to the conference.
Can we get an SEC history video?
It was founded in a hotel in Knoxville TN
Maryland leaving acc was huge. Lead to panic and atrocious acc grant of rights deal. Maryland leaving set off latest round of realignment that has crippled acc and destroyed pac 10
More complicated than that, but correct in a nutshell.
It's not the GOR but the long media deal which was praised at the time but is now behind an unexpected inflation curve.
DAMN YOU RUclips COPYRIGHT!!!!!11!!!
(This video is even better the second time)
It's funny. I've always thought of Duke, Rice, Vandy, Ga Tech as elite schools in US, but Tulane as a half step below them on the ladder. So the academic argument for leaving the SEC seems odd.
Check out Tulane's academic programs and rankings more closely.
My perception is that their idea, at the time, was to try taking a route of playing other southern private school programs, i.e., schools that featured strong academics, as opposed to being straight up football factories. How did the academics at Tulane University at the time compare against the academics at, e.g., Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech? Good question. I have no idea whether they were close or whether they weren't. Nonetheless, it seems clear that the leadership of Tulane University held the idea that they already knew that the state university programs in the SEC were operating on a premise of winning games being paramount, from which Tulane had already shifted away completely, and so there was an irreconcilable difference and only pure futility ahead, on the field, under those conditions.
Now I’m curious when the last time was that a conference kicked a school out.
Probably when the Big East booted Temple after 2004
Probably back in the early 2000s when the Big East kicked Temple out, but brought them back around 2012 I believe.
You got to do a video on SMU now that they are going to ACC
And fucking Stanford and Cal. Lol
In the SEC:
-- Academically, Vanderbilt, UGA, UF, Texas, and Texas A&M are all ranked above Tulane.
-- UGA now has the same ACT / SAT / GPA averages as Tech (32 ACT; 4.0 GPA). UGA simply has much more attractive women, a more picturesque campus, a superior college town, and better athletics.
Tulane simply lacked foresight. Dropping football is usually a mistake. Football makes the college experience. Homecoming with soccer? Please. Even Georgetown with its high academics has a team now.
I get Texas is coming to the SEC next year but we shouldn't be counting them in our rankings until they're actually members
A lot of conferences would want Chicago purely because the high grades would be attractive
i dont even care if they go FCS tbh i just want chicago proper to have an actual d1 football team. unless chicago state actually goes through with their plan to start one
@@ohwaitchristian…Evanston doesn’t count as “proper”? it’s like saying Boston doesn’t have a team in Division 1 because they’re not in Boston proper(there isn’t, BC is actually on the city line in another city)
@@bostonrailfan2427 I'm just being a hater because I'm a depaul fan
@@ohwaitchristian as someone whose education was influenced by BU and who has been by Northeastern too many times to count I understand
Fantastic video man! I think changing the background music may help, but that is my only gripe with your presentation
A southern Ivy league would be cool. TULANE, RICE, SMU, VANDERBILT, DUKE, TCU, MIAMI, and AUBURN would a good league. They might not real ivy league but good enough private schools.
Auburn ? Seriously
Auburn is a Public university
One of those is not like the others
Miami, auburn, and TCU?
Imagine that. Colleges putting education ahead of revenue. That's just unheard of.
There is absolutely nothing that says you can't have both.
@@spankynater4242 Reality clearly tells us there are tradeoffs. This tradeoff is painfully clear for the vast majority of schools that lose tens of millions of dollars every year on football. They literally take money from academics to cover the operating deficit of football. Look at the NCAA data. Even among the few schools that make money, athletics sucks money and attention away from academics.
Watching this after Vanderbilt beat Bama is pretty funny.
Watching and commenting again for the algorithm
Fun fact ..Tulane has more SEC championships than over half the teams currently in the conference (not including UC-Austin or UT-Norman)
As much as I love Tulane football, I hope they put academics over athletics.
Georgia Tech being a national championship contender in modern day football is hilarious to me, especially after they JUST lost to Bowling Green.
Better teams have lost to worse opponents
@techMan_25 that’s fair
Born and raised in Georgia and never really been a Tech fan, but I was proud of how well Paul Johnson did there with the Flexbone offense after he won two I-AA National Championships at Georgia Southern as head coach and another couple in an earlier stint as offensive coordinator.
Beat a top 10 FSU
For the first time in probably a long Tim LSU was named the best school academically in the state of Louisiana this year also Tulane is the number one party school in the nation
Who votes? My reference for general academics and athletics is the graph found at the ~12 minute mark in the vid titled:
"Big 12 Expansion Stats and Facts Breakdown | Conference Realignment | Tony Altimore x 365 Sports"
Per that academic measure, which is a blend of metrics, TULANE would be in the top group in the SEC while LSU is in the standard bottom half. For additional context, TULANE would be average in the ACC/B1G but would be the best in the new BIG12.
I'm still struggling with the idea that in the middle of the last century Tulane considered itself the Harvard of the South, and they believe that leaving the SEC helped the university academically. Does Tulane still think of itself as the Harvard of the South?
Harvard considers itself the Sewanee of the North
1:00 ngl those radioactivity ☢️ logo on the jerseys is fucking badass!
Chicago probably would've ended up like crosstown Northwestern. Or maybe like U Miami. Who knows.
I’m here for Thug Life University of Chicago.
It’s always about money. Never anything else.
You didn't mention bear Bryant with Georgia tech. He made an agreement with Bobby Dodd and then walked out last minute. It was the reason he beefed with Alabama. Bryant walked out last minute.
If Tulane was to stay in the SEC without being kicked out, they would’ve had to never make those cuts in 51’. If they do that, the Green Wave are trash in the 50’s and maybe even 60’s, but Tulane’s increased recruiting power (even with LSU) may help their football program revive in the 70’s in the SEC (73’ Peach Bowl appearance?), and they probably have a golden age in the 2000’s if they keep Tommy Bowden.
I doubt they would be close to a Vanderbilt. They may even have an extra Cotton Bowl win in 1998 in their arsenal. Side note: PAC-16 is very possible in this timeline as well, with FSU and Texas A&M joining the SEC in 2010, and Texas likely leaving the Big 12 for a super conference because of it.
North Central College, current Chicago area D3 powerhouse, has won a few Stagg bowls in the past few years… I’m waiting for them to move up divisions soon
You would think an entity involved in any type of media would know how to construct a sentence and punctuate those sentences.
It is crazy how things could have been if these teams didn't leave. I believe Chicago also have a automatic bid back to the B1G if they ever decide to rejoin. But I do hope a team like Tulane can join the Big 12 or the ACC and rejoin a power conference.
as someone who goes to uchicago i really doubt we'd have an automatic bid, we would have to REALLY upgrade everything about our athletics spending millions of dollars doing so, and that isnt the schools focus right now.
Tulane still has more championships than Texas A&M
Tulane was in the SEC far longer than A&M has been.
true fans will know this is a reupload.
Word
That Georgia Tech information was WILD!... About, after leaving the SEC, the enrollment, alumni, and population more than tripled yet the average GT football attendance for 2010 was less than in 1963 when they were in the SEC.
I wonder if Georgia State's 15,000 fans per home game drain much from Tech? Georgia Southern's 25,000 per home game probably drain at least a few who would otherwise make the drive.
The term "Power 5" didn't exist back then. That term came around in the BCS era.
The University of Chicago is exactly where they would have been. The only way they could have prayed to remain Div. 1 (FCS) is if they could have gotten into the Ivy League.
if not Ivy League, at least the Ohio Valley…
Chicago ended up in the 80s in a Div III Ivy League called the University Athletic Association with other former Div 1 academic universities (Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, University of Rochester, and WashU-St. Louis), and others that didn't have football (NYU, Brandeis, Emory, and Johns Hopkins). Currently, all these schools (except Johns Hopkins, which left) play in all sports except football, and Chicago is competitive in most sports against UAA and non-UAA teams, including winning the NCAA Div. III men's soccer title last year.
@@senton412 you’re wrong. the CONFERENCE dropped football sponsorship and did so in 2017, half of the members field teams
@@senton412I don't think this is true. doing a bit of research it seems half the conference still plays football, just as members of different conferences.
"The answer to all of your questions is money."
Don't forget Idaho was in the Pac 8 predecessor but has never had enough money.
MOntana too I believe,
My friend who went to Tech tells me every football season he wishes GT had never left the SEC. We usually go to a Tech game every year and he'll bring up how it'd be nicer to see Tennessee, Alabama, or a team like that as opposed to... I think it was Virginia we saw last time.
Brent Key is looking good.
@@kdog2646 lol me and my friend have been talking about that. Good so far!
@@ryza6897 already better than Geoff Collins
You forgot about University of South Carolina having a hissy fit and leaving the ACC.
Joining the SEC has really worked out great for them.
Well South Carolina went from power conference to power conference
@@IBangedUrMom69420so did Georgia tech
Tulane's move is dumb because Vanderbilt makes $$$ just by being associated with the league. Tulane would be wealthy if they stayed.
Football is good revenue in power conferences, however research and alumni donations are more important.
Look at the universities with the largest endowments. Only Stanford, Northwestern, and Duke have Power 5 football and the rest are all D3.
Northwestern makes at least 10x the revenue on research than it makes in sports.
@@fecat93 I have heard similar stories about Vandy. Still, Vandy really, in a way, just leaches off the SEC and frankly SEC likes them for tradition and the easy win so they don't go anywhere. Tulane could be the same boat. It is leaving $$$ on the table. Vandy didn't do all of the upgrades cited in this video but they stayed in the SEC, unlike Tulane, and now they collect the checks from that as well as the endowments and Vandy, in many ways, is even more prestige than Tulane with regard to Academics.
@@volbound1700Well Vandy is strong in basically everything BUT football, that’s why they’re in. They have a competent football team that can get smacked around by the elite, but the SEC relies on Vandy as the leader in baseball and a core basketball member, as well as all of the academic achievements
They are very bad in Men's Basketball as well and towards the bottom of SEC all time. I ranked SEC teams in Basketball several years back scoring based on SEC Championships and NCAA Tournament appearances and runs and Vandy was 12 of 14
In 1964-65, the TV revenue wasn't the factor that it would eventually become, and then that evolution really only started to become a story in college football about 20 years later. Tulane only knew that the fans weren't going to show up for a team that was winning around 2-3 games every year.
Bro pls do a FCS SOCON history vid
Bobby Dodd is a legend
1943 why’d Tulane play only 6 games?
no players or money they were all fighting in the war
Chicago's leadership said that it became impossible to win without sacrificing academic integrity and outright cheating. They were right. Chicago decided to focus on academics (the mission), and it won easily on that front. Chicago has all the $ they need and more, and Chicago's academics is on another stratosphere than any SEC university. So they won. In fact the SEC has the worst academics among any power five conference, by far. And aren't universities supposed to be about academics?
a) To be fair, VANDY is an academic peer of [NWEST].
b) The BIG12 was likely worse or a peer of the SEC academically.
The idea is sports = money, and money is used to improve academics. The success of a team like the Tide brings in money not only for sports but for the university to pay for upgrades to dorms and classrooms and other facilities.
@@tarheel7406vandy is good but it is still vastly overrated. Give me tech schools over liberal arts any day.
@@kdog2646 I have to rely some on reputation and the Altimore chart that I reference. Of the 4 elite private P4 "cap feathers" (the others being STANFORD, DUKE & NWEST), VANDY is the lowest.
If the Unversity of Chicago stayed with the big 10. Notre Dame would not have had the success that they had in their history. Notre Dame has benefitted back in the day from Chicago talent
I think Chicago also had a scandal in college basketball that the Big 10 did not want to be associated with. I could be wrong though, and thinking of another school
Do a history of the sec plz
Tulane beat the USC in a big game, so that says a lot
Sometimes, one must think beyond the importance of toting a prolate shaped ball up and down a gridiron. UIC defuncted football program's stadium became the first nuclear research laboratory. Contributed to the development of the A-bomb and truncated the second world war.
U of C (University of Chicago), not UIC (University of Illinois-Chicago). Two different schools about 10 miles apart geographically, and worlds apart academically.