And his brother. If you have not read The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism in Genesis: A Commentary by his brother Matthieu I strongly recommend it. It is ground breaking. Both are going to help us achieve a new way of seeing and experiencing reality. The time has come for this. With the Pageau brothers and Jordan Peterson we live in amazing times!
This has been the most meaningful of your lectures for me. I spent a while after listening to this, thinking of my grandmother who passed away suddenly a few years back. After she passed, my grandfather declined in health precipitously. It became clear to us that my grandfather had advanced dementia for many years and that my grandmother had been keeping him together and functional the whole time without our knowledge. My grandmother’s sacrifice is something I’ve put into my own marriage. It’s the same sacrifice that holds my family together and I learned that through my grandmother, through Christ.
I can’t even begin to express how grateful I am for the existence of Jonathan Pageau, and the ripple effect he is having on the thought of others around him. He speaks eloquently about matters of the heart which I lack the ability to, he gathers up all unto himself but then holds it up as a mirror for us. So beautiful.
I've heard Jonathan talk about the Santa being real example many many times, I've always sort of gotten it, but with his additional example of "gold having value only because people give it value"...it finally clicked for me. Thank you for this talk (and all that you do) Jonathan.
Literally "reflecting 'sun like'", so not taking it for themselves but reflecting it in "the image of the sun", just like the saints don't take the glory of God for themselves but reflecting it, emitting it like him - in his image
This relationship between love and attention, and Jonathan's insights about it, are extremely enriching and fascinating. I would love to hear this talk in a less apologetic context. Especially in how it applies to the Liturgy, and the different chiors of angels. Specifically the cheribum and seraphim.
It’s interesting to contemplate love being the driver, especially in those who support the political parties or ideologies I oppose. It definitely gives me more bandwidth for kindness and patience.
“ some thing in our soul, has a far more violent repugnance for true attention. Then the flesh has for bodily fatigue. This some thing is much more closely connected with evil than is the flesh. That is why every time that we really concentrate our attention, we destroy the evil in ourselves.” ~ Simone Weil
Like with other powerful talks I find after it a desire to have something like a transcript to move through points again, revisit places that were opening.
At the very end Pageau says, “All the bad things you do are also driven by love”. Would anyone else agree that love as he uses it, means the drive towards unity (good), or the desire for unity? What would the action word be there?
There's a striking similarity in the view that "we are driven to find rest in the good" and the Austrian economic action axiom, actors choose means to achieve ends. Scaling up, it's no surprise that the prescription of Austro-libertarianism is basically the economic rendering of the golden rule, "the property rights of others are the same as yours". Of course, without the ethical insight that Jonathan describes here, that perspective often suffers from a kind of liberal chaos.
At 17:20 “Dante wasn’t able to engage with her”… we explain this in parallel to those we care for struggling in any type of “relation or relative experience”. [you/we were strong or alive enough to recognize and experience the good… but often until - its not: you/we aren’t necessarily strong enough to walk away from what is “bad”… until we Are One Day… strong enough for both]. ❤ top down + above below + left right + dark light + black white is a dance of gray.
@seven I agree. But I think if it only causes depression, it is either not the proper good or not the proper way of engaging with the good for you at that time. The thing with God is that he always acts with justice AND mercy, and that He always gives the daily bread, sustaining what you are doing. I think it can be an exercise in humility to try to do good but not aim so high (and therefore follow a too difficult path) as to kill the very love for the good living in you
Aligns also with psychotherapy of depression btw. Trying to serve everyone and everything will exhaust you if it is severed from also caring about yourself. Your body will rebel against that eventually, you can not force yourself into love. You can instead transform your desires, train your mind and body in serving the good in a organic way, not acting from a place of weakness (as in: I have to please everyone / do everything perfectly in order to be loved) but from a place of freedom (as in: a vision of and living connection to a higher purpose, not opposed by any fear)
A question: In other talks Jonathan describes love as something that allows things to exist as separate but connected. So it's simultaneously a longing for unification and an allowance or even longing towards the other as separate and unique in its being. But here he talks about love in a sense that seems both wider and more primitive: "The motor that makes you move". How do you reconcile these two notions of love? P.S: I'm not sure what separates the "motor" notion of love from the concept of "will" in Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, which is morally neutral.
23:39 “The good we experience at one time.” Right hemisphere apprehension sending over information to left hemisphere for examination of a specific category, which needs to be re-contextualized back to the right in order to settle back into the context. Love is “the motor that makes you move”. Love as the seeking, the longing for the good, the understanding of possibility, imagination making art in time and space and probably eternally, Dante understood neuroscience in ways that are breath-taking: The mind, disposed to love at its creation, is readily moved toward anything that pleases as soon as by that pleasure it is roused to act. From real forms your perception draws an image it unfolds within you So that the mind considers it. and if the mind, so turned, inclines to it, the inclination is a natural love, Which beauty binds in you at once. He talks too about science persay, the moon and its formation, the development of the foetus come to mind.
How much self sacrifice is too much? This seems like a question between maintaining a balance between multiplicity and unity, no? For example, a new mother couldn't be constantly sacrificing herself for her newborn. She would need to maintain her sense of self to remain sane enough and healthy enough to care for the newborn effectively. Christians are called in scripture to make or consider others better than ourselves. But isn't there a line somewhere between being selfish or being a doormat. Neither seems optimal. Yet if self sacrifice is the foundation of the world, wouldn't be called more towards beings "doormats?" Hopefully my question was clear. I'm still trying to think this through.
If the kingdom of heaven is within then who will rule that kingdom? The biological brain and it's absolute concern for survival and self-sometimes at the expense of others? When I make Christ the king of my kingdom I am saved.
If an adult significant other is acting irrationally and all you do is sacrifice for them and it goes unnoticed, then they don’t deserve your sacrifice. I wasn’t speaking about children. I understand that’s different.
@@timme5150 I will not be someone else’s doormat. You sound like you have an abuse fetish. What’s the point of self sacrifice if it isn’t appreciated by the recipient of the benefits? Seems like a waste of time and cortisol to me. Change my mind.
48:58 And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” - John 1:51
Nice talk but not quite convincing. As for gold not having intrinsic value, that's not really true. Science pretty much showed its physical qualities, rarity and the way it can be created through a star's explosion. I think if the first don't sensitize, the last one should definitely. Not saying humanity might not be able to live without it but such a subjective theory could be extrapolated to mostly everything even human life.
I think you miss the point. All those qualities of gold we hold dear are held dear because we assign the value to it we want. Even the qualities that make it up or that science holds we assign what value it means to us.
@@jenniferflower9265 Right, but then you fall into the post modernist trap of interpreting things as you see fit or in multiple ways. I'm saying there's real intellectual danger when you put things on the plate of subjectivity. Science isn't like art or philosophy, emotion and theory, it actually shows you if something has value and you can't get subjective about that. Tell me how for instance a metal tool is not more valuable than one made of wood of the same type? It's more precious in many ways: time to make it, resources needed to make it, durability etc. So, it's not that I'm missing the point, it's that the argument is weak, from my point of view.
@@deepstrasz hun, man made the rules for science too. Man makes it all. Sure,.there's discovery for laws of nature, but it's us who interpret them. I'm our words that make our meaning. Science isn't something that just exists. It exists because of us. Science is Science because we call what we do with it Science. We named the stars, we named what stars are made of, we named what the do. We decided if it's valuable to us or not. I'm pretty sure we assign meaning to weather something is valuable to us as a human species or not. Heck, we decided that little pieces of paper with a pic of our president amd a pyramid and some number symbols were valuable. We assigned that meaning to it. It's paper and print. It's nothing but something in a society that all agree its something. People will.wotk themselves yo the grave for it. Steel for it, murder for it.
@@jenniferflower9265 Subjectivity aside, I was not referring to the term science but to the fact that you can reproduce results. That's not man made, it's reality. Yes, we can't grasp the whole picture but what we can with our current technology and knowledge, is not subjective.
Pageau is the future of what we call a genius.
And his brother. If you have not read The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism in Genesis: A Commentary
by his brother Matthieu I strongly recommend it. It is ground breaking. Both are going to help us achieve a new way of seeing and experiencing reality. The time has come for this. With the Pageau brothers and Jordan Peterson we live in amazing times!
Am I the future?
He is pretty smart. Ngl😂
This is the kind of talk which a culture can be built upon. Tremendous articulation Jonathan
1st paying attention
Johnathon and Bishop Barron is the most enlightening discussion I've heard to date
This has been the most meaningful of your lectures for me. I spent a while after listening to this, thinking of my grandmother who passed away suddenly a few years back. After she passed, my grandfather declined in health precipitously. It became clear to us that my grandfather had advanced dementia for many years and that my grandmother had been keeping him together and functional the whole time without our knowledge. My grandmother’s sacrifice is something I’ve put into my own marriage. It’s the same sacrifice that holds my family together and I learned that through my grandmother, through Christ.
I can’t even begin to express how grateful I am for the existence of Jonathan Pageau, and the ripple effect he is having on the thought of others around him. He speaks eloquently about matters of the heart which I lack the ability to, he gathers up all unto himself but then holds it up as a mirror for us. So beautiful.
I've heard Jonathan talk about the Santa being real example many many times, I've always sort of gotten it, but with his additional example of "gold having value only because people give it value"...it finally clicked for me. Thank you for this talk (and all that you do) Jonathan.
Gold is valuable for its stability (not reacting to things) and similarity to the Sun.
🥇
Literally "reflecting 'sun like'", so not taking it for themselves but reflecting it in "the image of the sun", just like the saints don't take the glory of God for themselves but reflecting it, emitting it like him - in his image
But is gold not also valuable in the sense that there isn’t a lot? (scarcity)
@@fotimantis5246 yes you are right, but I would add that scarcity in itself has no value
I’m drawn towards the goodness of this talk!
Peak Jonathan Pageau! Well done! I’ll have to listen to this a couple times to make sure everything sunk in
This is peak Jonathan, and ends with a sledgehammer closing.
It’s beautiful how dante’s inferno is such a poem for life.
Beautiful talk, you always provide clarity and are able to make helpful distinctions in topics that can be very complex. Thank you!🙏🏼
I have so much respect for you, Jonathan 🙏❤️
I greatly thank you for keeping me aligned with the right vision during these trying times.
Jonathan really enjoys holding that glass.
This relationship between love and attention, and Jonathan's insights about it, are extremely enriching and fascinating. I would love to hear this talk in a less apologetic context. Especially in how it applies to the Liturgy, and the different chiors of angels. Specifically the cheribum and seraphim.
Always love your stuff, Jonathan.
Better than any sermon
Thank you Jonathan!
This is gold!
It’s interesting to contemplate love being the driver, especially in those who support the political parties or ideologies I oppose.
It definitely gives me more bandwidth for kindness and patience.
Love to all you ❤❤❤❤❤❤
“ some thing in our soul, has a far more violent repugnance for true attention. Then the flesh has for bodily fatigue. This some thing is much more closely connected with evil than is the flesh. That is why every time that we really concentrate our attention, we destroy the evil in ourselves.” ~ Simone Weil
Like with other powerful talks I find after it a desire to have something like a transcript to move through points again, revisit places that were opening.
Now this takes a fair bit wrestling with to understand, amazing, thank you
At the very end Pageau says, “All the bad things you do are also driven by love”. Would anyone else agree that love as he uses it, means the drive towards unity (good), or the desire for unity? What would the action word be there?
Attention! Thou shalt love!
Exactly. That’s why I’m not a conservative hater. I know my son will be safe and sound even though we don’t always agree on ideology😎
There's a striking similarity in the view that "we are driven to find rest in the good" and the Austrian economic action axiom, actors choose means to achieve ends. Scaling up, it's no surprise that the prescription of Austro-libertarianism is basically the economic rendering of the golden rule, "the property rights of others are the same as yours". Of course, without the ethical insight that Jonathan describes here, that perspective often suffers from a kind of liberal chaos.
At 17:20 “Dante wasn’t able to engage with her”… we explain this in parallel to those we care for struggling in any type of “relation or relative experience”. [you/we were strong or alive enough to recognize and experience the good… but often until - its not: you/we aren’t necessarily strong enough to walk away from what is “bad”… until we Are One Day… strong enough for both]. ❤ top down + above below + left right + dark light + black white is a dance of gray.
What it the thing you’re sacrificing yourself for is causing depression rather than a sense of purpose?
@seven I agree. But I think if it only causes depression, it is either not the proper good or not the proper way of engaging with the good for you at that time. The thing with God is that he always acts with justice AND mercy, and that He always gives the daily bread, sustaining what you are doing. I think it can be an exercise in humility to try to do good but not aim so high (and therefore follow a too difficult path) as to kill the very love for the good living in you
Aligns also with psychotherapy of depression btw. Trying to serve everyone and everything will exhaust you if it is severed from also caring about yourself. Your body will rebel against that eventually, you can not force yourself into love. You can instead transform your desires, train your mind and body in serving the good in a organic way, not acting from a place of weakness (as in: I have to please everyone / do everything perfectly in order to be loved) but from a place of freedom (as in: a vision of and living connection to a higher purpose, not opposed by any fear)
Oh good another pageau video. Oh i've seen this already on Paul Vanderclays channel. Welp. Might as well like and comment on the way out.
A question: In other talks Jonathan describes love as something that allows things to exist as separate but connected. So it's simultaneously a longing for unification and an allowance or even longing towards the other as separate and unique in its being. But here he talks about love in a sense that seems both wider and more primitive: "The motor that makes you move". How do you reconcile these two notions of love?
P.S: I'm not sure what separates the "motor" notion of love from the concept of "will" in Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, which is morally neutral.
Johnathon's concept of Man sounds the same as Anastasia's in the Ringing Cedars series.
23:39 “The good we experience at one time.”
Right hemisphere apprehension sending over information to left hemisphere for examination of a specific category, which needs to be re-contextualized back to the right in order to settle back into the context.
Love is “the motor that makes you move”. Love as the seeking, the longing for the good, the understanding of possibility, imagination making art in time and space and probably eternally, Dante understood neuroscience in ways that are breath-taking:
The mind, disposed to love at its creation,
is readily moved toward anything that pleases
as soon as by that pleasure it is roused to act.
From real forms your perception draws
an image it unfolds within you
So that the mind considers it.
and if the mind, so turned, inclines to it,
the inclination is a natural love,
Which beauty binds in you at once.
He talks too about science persay, the moon and its formation, the development of the foetus come to mind.
How much self sacrifice is too much? This seems like a question between maintaining a balance between multiplicity and unity, no?
For example, a new mother couldn't be constantly sacrificing herself for her newborn. She would need to maintain her sense of self to remain sane enough and healthy enough to care for the newborn effectively. Christians are called in scripture to make or consider others better than ourselves. But isn't there a line somewhere between being selfish or being a doormat. Neither seems optimal. Yet if self sacrifice is the foundation of the world, wouldn't be called more towards beings "doormats?"
Hopefully my question was clear. I'm still trying to think this through.
Never mind the blessed qualities of the molecules of the water in that glass in his holy presence.
It's like some kind of holy water.
Im here!!
I hope mark zuckerberg sees this video
If the kingdom of heaven is within then who will rule that kingdom? The biological brain and it's absolute concern for survival and self-sometimes at the expense of others? When I make Christ the king of my kingdom I am saved.
❤
26:05 love
27:45 Hiegher beeings
why does the audio have to be so bad in 2022?
Self sacrifice and sacrificing principles isn’t good though if the one(s) you’re sacrificing for doesn’t appreciate it.
That is because your attention is on a person(s), not on God. If attention is given to The Truth, the sacrifice is good.
If an adult significant other is acting irrationally and all you do is sacrifice for them and it goes unnoticed, then they don’t deserve your sacrifice. I wasn’t speaking about children. I understand that’s different.
@@ghostgate82 Not true. It means the one you are sacrificing for isn’t good.
Your assuming the proper reason for self sacrifice is appreciation. But that is self serving and actually not an instance of self sacrifice.
@@timme5150 I will not be someone else’s doormat. You sound like you have an abuse fetish. What’s the point of self sacrifice if it isn’t appreciated by the recipient of the benefits? Seems like a waste of time and cortisol to me. Change my mind.
Sweet!
😘😚
🌚☄️❤️💫
Attention. 🌞
Where can you buy graphic novel?
👌👌👌
-38
+
Isaiah 50:9((C.E.V.))🧵
20th
48:58
And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” - John 1:51
Second 🥈
Thunder Bay Canada?
Yes. Urban Abbey is in Downtown PA. I had no idea this was happening. :
Indeed! Change begins at the margins ;).
@ E W There is something about places that tend to exclude by their out -of-the-way nature.
Thought that was bill gates and Tom segura
pRAISE God
Nice talk but not quite convincing. As for gold not having intrinsic value, that's not really true. Science pretty much showed its physical qualities, rarity and the way it can be created through a star's explosion. I think if the first don't sensitize, the last one should definitely. Not saying humanity might not be able to live without it but such a subjective theory could be extrapolated to mostly everything even human life.
I think you miss the point. All those qualities of gold we hold dear are held dear because we assign the value to it we want. Even the qualities that make it up or that science holds we assign what value it means to us.
@@jenniferflower9265 Right, but then you fall into the post modernist trap of interpreting things as you see fit or in multiple ways.
I'm saying there's real intellectual danger when you put things on the plate of subjectivity.
Science isn't like art or philosophy, emotion and theory, it actually shows you if something has value and you can't get subjective about that. Tell me how for instance a metal tool is not more valuable than one made of wood of the same type? It's more precious in many ways: time to make it, resources needed to make it, durability etc.
So, it's not that I'm missing the point, it's that the argument is weak, from my point of view.
@@deepstrasz hun, man made the rules for science too. Man makes it all. Sure,.there's discovery for laws of nature, but it's us who interpret them. I'm our words that make our meaning. Science isn't something that just exists. It exists because of us. Science is Science because we call what we do with it Science. We named the stars, we named what stars are made of, we named what the do. We decided if it's valuable to us or not. I'm pretty sure we assign meaning to weather something is valuable to us as a human species or not. Heck, we decided that little pieces of paper with a pic of our president amd a pyramid and some number symbols were valuable. We assigned that meaning to it. It's paper and print. It's nothing but something in a society that all agree its something. People will.wotk themselves yo the grave for it. Steel for it, murder for it.
@@jenniferflower9265 Subjectivity aside, I was not referring to the term science but to the fact that you can reproduce results. That's not man made, it's reality. Yes, we can't grasp the whole picture but what we can with our current technology and knowledge, is not subjective.