we hitchhiked there from UCSantaCruz. we were hippies. the whole vibe was going bad for a couple of years. manson. zodiac killer... altamont was the last time i messed with psychedelics. it was ending. like all things do.
As a consumer of literature, I don't care much for 60s "rock" journalism. It traffics too easily in rock mythology. I would argue that the rock colossi of the 1970s (Zep, Tull, Floyd, ELP, and so many others) that punk rockers so detested were helped along by rock journalists. That said, Joel Selvin's book is a revelation and occupies a position of honor on my bookshelf. I encourage rock music fans and social history fans alike to read it.
Joel Selvin's sarcasm and mocking style feels like he is playing fast and loose with the truth. A quick check of moon phases for 1969 reveals his lie about "there was a blood moon that night (December 6, 1969). Makes me suspect his account of Altamont.
You can see the first quarter moon in gimme shelter. There's a shot of the sky at sunset. From the little bit that I know, my understanding is that rituals are performed in the first quarter of the moon.
Tabitha is so dense! Can she really not read between the lines and figure out why there wasn't "real" security. She knows nothing about the counterculture and why a community that was antiestablishment not want police involved
The idea to not have police came from Mick Jagger himself. It’s common knowledge that Mick hated police. The English had their own version of the Hells Angels, who where kitty cats in comparison to the American chapters. Mick didn’t understand this and was never informed of how violent they could be. He knows now!
Yeah, was at Altimont. We drove nonstop from LA. Don't know how we heard about it. Was about 30 feet from the angels yellow school bus on the hill. It was filled with cases of beer and the angels would fling beers and even six-packs in the air hitting people that didn't even see it coming. It was a real stone fest. We had our weed, LSD, southern comfort, and opium ( spent part of the time nodded out) But really we had a great time. To far away from the stage to see what was really going on. To us it was just a giant party.
@vchavez0103 NO didn't see myself. I've watched it several times and always looked but haven't. I always pay attention to the beginning where people are walking in along the long line of cars. Remember walking past people filming but must have been cutout.
Altamont was indicative of the 60s Haight-Hashbury. After the influx of so many newbie flower children into a small area of San Francisco, it actually wasn't long before the bad elements moved in and started selling Speed, Smack, etc. It turned mean quickly.
Similar thing happened after the 2nd so called ‘ summer of love ‘ in 1988 here in England. Ecstasy and Acid House raves were the new movement and it was absolutely brilliant. Until the criminals realised that there was a lot of money to be made and they started cutting the ecstasy with any old rubbish, muscling in on the door security and robbing other party organisers. Then speed, cocaine and crack started entering the scene and it became very dark in a lot of places.
@@mrkipling2201 when you base a "revolution" on people doing drugs, don't be surprised when people who exploit that movement come into the fold. Because it's very profitable being a drug dealer.
Wow, this was awesome. I've been reading books by this manfor years, and never even knew what he sounded like. I wish he were my neighbor. I really like his perspective.
You can sense the frustration of the interviewer at some seeming contradictions or paradoxes from Selvin. It’s good that she tries to get clarification because many viewers don’t have pre-existing knowledge about this stuff.
Anybody who didn't see Gimme Shelter movie has no clue what they're talking about. Also Mick Jagger I think was supposedly a almost the victim of a hit off the coast of Long Island years later.
Around 42:00 Selvin attributes MT's solo on Can't You Hear Me Knockin' to some sort of change in the music as a result of Altamont (sounds like Santana, he says). To me the solo sounds like Mick Taylor, a fluid player who uses interesting note choices--like Santana or any player not just copying the blues note-for-note does. I don't think the Stones are all about making money, and Selvin is too quick to attribute blame only to them. He attributes the violence to San Jose HAs, but wasn't Sonny Barger from the Oakland chapter one of the first to jump into the audience to defend his motor cycle? Selvin may know he is being provacative defending the HAs, but does he so have to demean their victim and (to me) sound so flippant about him and his tough upbringing? Yes, don't bring a gun to a concert, but if you have and you're feeling your life is being threatened, wouldn't it be difficult not to pull it out? Selvin documents Altamont with great investigative work, but then editorializes with a bias against the Stones and for the poor, misunderstood HAs. The Grateful Dead appear to be getting a pass though they may have been as naive about the violence potential as the Stones--as many of us suburban hippies were at the time.
And what I really don't understand is, that he mensioned Hunter wasn't educated in any way. What has got that fact to do with anything?! And that Hunter had a beautiful blond at his side. So???
Is there any film or at least a photo of the crowd lifting Meredith Hunter's body onto to stage in front of Kieth Richard, with Jagger covering his face and looking away? This certainly was not shown in "Gimme Shelter." Does either footage or photo(s) exist?
@Careful with that Vax Euegene I've since learned there exists only a still photo of that particular moment. Not sure if the Maysles' cameras ever caught it.
If you knew your facts Joel you would know how Can't You Hear Me Knocking came to exist ... they were not copying Santana... after they cut the initial song the tape was not shut off and it kept rolling and they just were jamming and what came out of it was something so spectacular they decided take put that on the album so stop making it like Mick Taylor was trying to copy Carlos Santana. I think Taylor is a much more naturally gifted polished guitarist, a virtuoso if you will, than Carlos Santana even though he himself is a great guitarist, but the way Can't You Hear Me Knocking was recorded was because the tape kept running after they were done with the initial song and they all just jammed and that's how that recording happened and Mick Taylor played phenomenally on that and it had nothing to do with trying to copy Santana you must be kidding me Joel! Don't know where you got your information from but it's wrong buddy!
I haven't read the book but I'm curious if he gets into the plot allegedly hatched by The Hells Angels to exact revenge by assassinating Mick Jagger at The Stones' Montauk, L.I., NY house where they lived while rehearsing for their 1976 tour. My understanding is that The Angels sailed in a boat with explosives and/or weapons across Long Island Sound from CT at night but a storm arose and boat with weapons was lost in the water and the plot was foiled. Sounds like God intervened to save Mick's life. abcnews.go.com/GMA/WinterConcert/story?id=4377532#:~:text=After%20fabled%20Altamont%20show%2C%20biker,to%20kill%20Rolling%20Stones%20frontman.&text=March%203%2C%202008%E2%80%94,documentary.
When you get the hells angels to police a show it will not go well . The show was a pure vanity project for jagger , I don't even think the rest stone's where into it . The San Francisco chapter of the angels was present at Altamonte , you can clearly see in gimme shelter film and bad quality acid.
The acid wasn't necessarily bad, set and setting are important elements to having a good trip and that setting wasn't conducive to having a smooth trip.
It's always amazed me how the Grateful Dead have constantly managed to be spared their share of responsibility for the Altamont debacle when, after all, they were the ones who, in the first place, recommended the Hells Angels, maybe not the chapeter that wound up at Altamont, but how could the Stones know about the San Francisco chapter vs the San Jose chapter vs the Oakland chapter. The Dead (and their manager Rock Scully) knew about this and the various differences among chapters and should have been more involved. But they weren't. Then, at the festival itself, and this is critical, after arriving to perform in their alloted slot, the Grateful Dead, taking stock of the violence that had taken place up to that point, walked out on the event and left the premisis altogether, leaving a 2 hour gap before the Stones came on. The Dead, on their own home turf, with an audience that was their crowd, their people, bolted like cowards, fearing further violence. They could have had a soothing effect on the crowd if they'd performed. It may or may not have worked, but their unwillingness to try was reprehensible. They knew the Stones were now alone and didn't have the option of walking out. As bad as things were at the moment of the Dead's exit, there's no telling how much worse things might have degenerated had the Stones, too, walked out. The Grateful Dead's bailing essentially gave the message that the cared only about saving themselves. They didn't care about the state of affairs at Altamont. They didn't care about the pile of crap they were handing the Stones, leaving them to hold the bag when the time came to find blame for a festival gone awry. If this concert had been in London, on the Stones' home turf, and they had walked out on the Grateful Dead under similar circumstances, nobody would have hesitated to blame the Stones for chickening out, and rightfully so. Well, at Altamont, this is what the Grateful Dead did. Have they ever answered for this? Have any of their fellow California musicians that performed that day ever answered the question about the impact of the bailing by the Grateful Dead? These other bands all bailed themselves, but at least they performed. In the end, The Grateful Dead high-tailed it out of Altamont to save their own skins, the Stones be damned and the rest of the crowd as well.
I’m not really believing you Joel. You also said the 60 foot light towers had no lights on them. But they do , you can see one of the light tech dancing up on the tower during the Airplanes song.I liked you’re book, but the info was there to write.
He said the spotlights did not arrive. What kind of lights can you see during the airplane song? They probably had other types of lights up on them but no spots. I didn't know they used nearly all the metal parts to build the towers. If they used the metal from just one of those towers to raise the stage a bit, some of the problems could have been averted. And if only they put the bikes safely under the stage (or pretty much anywhere else) the Angels would not have gotten nearly as violent. I read somewhere that the Angel's main job was to protect the power generators that were running the lights and the sound system, and everything else. As far as protecting the stage, they figured parking the bikes in front of the stage would be all that was necessary to keep the crowd at bay. But when people rushed the stage the Angels found themselves having to protect their bikes from the crowd. Once they got damaged all bets were off.
There is a video of the whole concert that this guy does not know we can all see . It went fine for everyone but the people in the front . The hells angels in the front were drunk and , on camera , you see a hells Angel stab a black guy in a green suit in the back with a GIANT KNIFE . Its a huge knife . All of that happened by the stage , If you were not in front and by the stage and in the back you would not have known . A lot of people probably had a great time . The media needs to sell papers and books , like this guy , but we can all see footage of anything with the internet and writers making stories more grand is a time fo the past . We have video . The only issue was drunk losers like hells ANgels and they were a sole reason for killing a guy but most people did not see that happen . We only see because its on camera .
Just from my foggy memory of the 60s counterculture, it really wasn't any one group of people. There were many subcultures that intermingled with each other. The Hell's Angels were part of it. Did you know there was a difference between hippies and freaks. I learned this from my older brother. A lot of people thought they were one and the same. A hippie back then was known as someone who doesn't work. A freak was someone who has all the outward characteristics of a hippie, the hair clothes, lingo, uses drugs, etc., but the freak holds down a job. Altamont, like Woodstock was apparently set up to be this mega free concert in the park. Free concerts on a smaller scale worked because they were confined to smaller, urbanized spaces. There was more of a sense community. Even the SF HAs had more connection to their community than at a concert in the middle of nowhere like Altamont. Counterculture didn't end there, but I think it did quiet things down a bit.
No John, the difference between freaks and hippies wasn't as your brother said. With respect to him, the difference was nothing more than the word itself. Early in the 1960's, a younger crowd found the sensibilities of the Beat generation to be appealing, they started hanging around in the coffee houses and the beatniks referred to the young hipsters as hippies. The term "hippie" was picked up by the media and it became a cliché. In late 1967 the Diggers held a mock funeral for the hippie, hoping the media would stop covering the Haight/Summer of Love. Part of that mock funeral was an intent to eliminate the word hippie from the vernacular. Within the counterculture, everyone replaced the descriptor, "hippie" with "freak". The simple explanation is, within the counterculture, the word hippie was replaced by the word freak. As the counterculture grew in numbers, the reasons for its existence started to fade and for some, it became a fashion. That connection to the sensibilities of the Beats and how it expanded to become the early counterculture was, by 1969, lost on the throngs of people who thought it was fashionable to play act as a hippie, grow their hair a little bit and smoke pot. By the time Disco reared its ugly head, those people were the first ones to throw out their love beads and headbands and start wearing platform shoes, permed hair and polyester leisure suits. The real freaks never gave up, they may have done what was necessary to survive adulthood but they still believe in the dream.
The Rolling Stones hired the Hells Angel's for security. They did that all the time in England, but in England, at the time the "Hells Angels" there were mostly playing dress up. When they came to America and the Bay Area where the real Hells Angels were from they thought they were hiring the same sort of people. Yet they hired the real deal. And paid them in beer. I mean come on, it's like paying Leopards in flesh and expect them to have high tea with nice people for 3 days.
the angel's were the dead's security. it was the dead's affiliation w ha that brought them to altamont. gd had a long time association w them. garcia appears in the hell's angels forever film, and the jgb used to be the house band for angels parties, and did benefits for sick kids o angels.
I curiously caught the part where Joel explained that murder victim Meredith Hunter's body was never medevacked from Altamont because the helicopter was reserved for The Stones. I saw the scenes where Hunter's body was supposedly loaded onto the helicopter which then departed and I noticed that the helicopter was red with white markings and looked exactly like the one that The Stones and their entourage boarded before it is seen immediately departing after the door was closed. I haven't double-checked yet but I'd bet that the identical footage was used for the departure ostensibly containing Hunter's body which also _doesn't_ show Hunter's body/gurney being loaded onto it. That's a deceptive cover-up and it sucks. Funny how the truth always comes out anyway because the truth can never be killed. Thank God for that.
altamont did it for me. i didn't even know anyone had been killed. but my three or four year stint with dropping acid, hitchhiking all over ended THAT DAY.
@@sleethmitchell That's the difference between a freak and a weekend hippie. A freak, dedicated to the movement, wasn't going to be affected by one event!
Paul Evans. good point. Many know that the astro climate were not favorable. I dont recall nor know of a blood red moon on dec., 6, 1969. Reason being is that it didn`t happen on that date. looked for it on an ephemeris & it doesnt exist.
Her wants accountability on a plate her does. Her does not want to hear anything positive about the music, her doesn't. She's special wittle SJW self wants everybody still alive to plop they poopers up on she's Oprah-wannabe-couch and be shamed over-and-over-and-over-and-over..... Then her can feel sooooooo good about she's un-informed wittle bottom. It's like hearing a sixth-grade hall monitor direct military traffic in the Middle East.
There's a convoluted history to this which Selvin outlines in the book, which is that the San Francisco chapter of the Hells Angels had a history of being a positive security presence for the scene at the time. The problem was that many of the hells angels that came to Altamont were not the SF chapter, they were from San Jose and other nearby places and didn't have the same ethics as the Hells Angels that were known for their association with the Grateful Dead
The Stones weren’t even aware that someone asked for their helicopter to be used to evacuate Hunter out of there and to the hospital. This bloke certainly isn’t a fan of the Stones!! Or that’s how it looks to me!!
Yeah, The Stones were playing their set. I think people don't understand anything about flying, what's needed on a medi vac helicopter and pilots are not going to deviate from their "orders". Most come from a military background. Depending where the hospital was located could a helicopter even land at the hospital? Even today you can't land a helicopter at just any nearby hospital. Let's talk about a doctor not bothering to get an ambulance. Or not having an ambulance standing by at the event. Not a rock star singing unaware of what's going on behind the scene.
The Hell's Angels had their bikes destroyed and they couldn't even get to them to try to get them out of the crowd. They got angry and with the amount of drugs and beer they consumed they lost it.
There is a bootleg available, made from a portable tape recorder in the audience, feet away from the stage. You can hear how much of Jagger's pleadings and frustrations were cut from the Gimme Shelter movie. And the correct order of the songs. But most revealing are the angry comments from the audience members next to the person with the tape recorder. They are NOT happy! This bootleg often shows up on RUclips.
Its absurd to claim that any one event caused the end of the 1960's. After the Woodstock documentary was released millions of young people, realized that their parents, school teachers and the authorities were lying to them about the "hippies". They saw people having fun, swimming naked and listening to great music, a far cry from the image previously presented to them. These kids knew nothing about the reasons and the lineage of the movement. They started growing their hair and smoking pot, thinking that's what it was all about but under the skin they were as straight as their parents. It was just a fashion for them to follow. The counter became mainstream, the counterculture died from absorption. When Disco started, gone were their love beads and headbands and they started wearing platform shoes and polyester leisure suits, another fashion for them to follow. The core of the counterculture remained for years and to this day the sensibilities that started with the Beats and continued through the young hipsters they called hippies, lives in the hearts of the true believers. Neither Altamont, Manson or any other event killed that.
Selvin comes across as arrogant & self-righteous. The Stones were in their mid-twenties at the time & tried their best to get an impossible situation under control. It’s easy in retrospect to criticize, but Altamont was the culmination of many serious problems coming together in a perfect storm-anger & discontent in the Black community over MLK’s assassination & the ongoing struggle for social justice; increasing anger over the Vietnam war; disillusionment about the hippie values of peace & love; not to mention terrible conditions brought about by overzealous concert promoters who put the whole thing together at the very last minute without considering the basic human needs for food, water, bathroom facilities, & standby medical care. Furthermore, the Hell’s Angels in San Francisco (yes, the REAL Hell’s Angels, not the English copycats on scooters or whatever) had been hanging out at large concerts for years, mingling with the hippies & rock bands with no issues or violence. If the Stones were as selfish as Selvin says, they could have left 5 minutes after they arrived & saw the violence brewing. Imagine the riots & chaos that might have developed in that scenario. Instead, they did their very best to try to calm things down. And they might have been successful, if Meredith Hunter hadn’t pulled out a gun. It’s tragic he lost his life, but what in the world was he thinking, bringing a gun to an event like that??
I read this book when it first came out and I think it was one of the best on altamont. I can't remember if it was said but the one biggest problems was the stones didn't know what the real angels were all about. Check out that one hyde park stones show and look at english angels, nothing like the real deal. That was only one problem but it was a biggie. Although why would a black guy bring a gun to a peace and love show? I'm completely on the angels side on that one, and if the stones knew anything about the HA they would have known better if they saw anyone fucking with the brothers bikes to call them out immediately and get them the fuck away from any angels bikes. Stoned, drunk idiot kids. They learned.
I read the girlfriends statement and the reason why he brought the gun was because it was rowdy and he wasn’t the only one packing and he could’ve shot anybody and he didn’t even while he was being stabbed he pointed it in the air and not at his attackers
Insightful in some ways but very questionable in others. As for what goes called the Hippie movement it actually took hold in the late 60s & dispersed about 1973 along side the end of the unpopular Vietnam War. It was in many ways a revolutionary movement for the times. As for the Hells Angels, there was no true connection to the Hippie movement, regardless of the chapter.
So this guy "knows Hell's Angels"? He talks about the "initiates" who caused a lot of the trouble. How do you know any Angels, or a any clubbers for that matter, and not know that those probies are called "prospects"? And Altamont Raceway is NOT in Altamont, it's in Livermore. Serious bullshit artist we have here .... I can tell you, on December 6th 1969, I was standing on turn 3 of the Altamont Raceway watching everything unfold. The day did indeed have a bad vibe to it. It was a fairly raw day, and the scuffles started early on. We left in late afternoon, it had been enough of a clusterf*ck so that I wouldn't have stayed if The Beatles were coming up.
I was surprised that the author did not attend the concert. However, I read his book and it is heavily researched and very good, goes into great detail. I'm sure he knows "prospects" and used it in his book; he just didn't find the right word off the top of his head in the interview. Also, surprised to see audience members stripping off their clothes despite the cold weather. Selvin talks about it in his book and offers explanation.
@@johnarnold8941 The fact remains, if it is "heavily researched", you're just using someone else's possibly faulty facts - maybe THEY weren't there either. Ultimately if you weren't literally AT an event, you don't genuinely "know" anything.
Good to bring to light that the end of the Rolling Stones set that day was a success, and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. It kind of puts to rest some of the convenient narrative and the urban legend.
Keep in mind the vast majority of the publicised violence was around the stage. The masses on the far-away hills didn't know what was going on up at the stage. And when the stage-vicinity violence subsided (soon after the killing of Hunter), the Stones got down to business and put on a great remaining performance.
The irony here is that far more deaths would probably have occurred had The Hells Angels not been there. 150,000 people, high on bad acid, and only a three and a half foot high stage? That would have been mayhem.
Man, why are you kidding everyone with your lies??? at least one great big lie ! because there was a helicopter for care. A special one. Smaller than that of the Stones. Just have a look at the Gimme shelter movie once more. You will see 2 helicopters. You can compare them... :( :( :(
Meredith Hunter pulled a long barreled pistol and began rushing towards the stage. The commentator in this video diminishes this fact by saying he was holding a gun. It destroys the factual context. I saw Meredith Hunter with the gun out, facing the stage he was denied to jump onto with the Stones. He was on meth, and schizophrenic. Hells angels probably saved a true future victim from being murdered. Hunter was killed in self defense. I saw what [Hunter] was looking at, that he was crazy, he was on drugs, and that he had murderous intent," Grateful Dead manager Rock Scully said. "There was no doubt in my mind that he intended to do terrible harm to Mick or somebody in the Rolling Stones, or somebody on that stage." And Mickey Hart, lead singer for the Jefferson Airplane said: “He was headed right toward Mick with his gun pointed," Hart explained. "What [Angel Alan Passaro] did was really heroic in some ways, running toward somebody with a gun and confronting them." Still don't believe? Here's the proof images.app.goo.gl/e3TttFJa4E5TYYSeA
There's one thought that's been stuck in my mind for decades, and now I'm reading the testimony of somebody who saw the whole thing. If Hunter really did point the pistol at Jagger, then that means that in spite of all the other stuff, the Angels actually completed the job they were hired to do. Jagger walked away from the gig in one piece, and did not achieve room temperature, unlike the guy who tried to kill him. It's all kinda cold blooded, But facts is facts.
![Method Writing: The First Four Concepts - Jack Grapes [FULL INTERVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ba9jAVzADY0/mqdefault.jpg)
we hitchhiked there from UCSantaCruz. we were hippies. the whole vibe was going bad for a couple of years. manson. zodiac killer... altamont was the last time i messed with psychedelics. it was ending. like all things do.
Sensational book Joel. Great read. Big thanks from Downunder in Sydney. Cheers. 😎🇦🇺👍🏻
It's good, but not sensational kangaroo Man!
Great inverview that puts a lot of things into perspective!! And nice to see Tabitha Soren again. Still gorgeous!
Søren
As a consumer of literature, I don't care much for 60s "rock" journalism. It traffics too easily in rock mythology. I would argue that the rock colossi of the 1970s (Zep, Tull, Floyd, ELP, and so many others) that punk rockers so detested were helped along by rock journalists. That said, Joel Selvin's book is a revelation and occupies a position of honor on my bookshelf. I encourage rock music fans and social history fans alike to read it.
Joel Selvin's sarcasm and mocking style feels like he is playing fast and loose with the truth. A quick check of moon phases for 1969 reveals his lie about "there was a blood moon that night (December 6, 1969). Makes me suspect his account of Altamont.
@Eva Ennis: You are correct in suspecting other parts of Selvin's account. There's much to be suspicious about.
You're dead on.
@@news603redux Selvin has ALWAYS been a lying asshole.
You can see the first quarter moon in gimme shelter. There's a shot of the sky at sunset. From the little bit that I know, my understanding is that rituals are performed in the first quarter of the moon.
Tabitha is so dense! Can she really not read between the lines and figure out why there wasn't "real" security. She knows nothing about the counterculture and why a community that was antiestablishment not want police involved
Well,she's a veteran of MTV news🙄
Yeah, she's a regular Carl Bernstein.
The idea to not have police came from Mick Jagger himself. It’s common knowledge that Mick hated police. The English had their own version of the Hells Angels, who where kitty cats in comparison to the American chapters. Mick didn’t understand this and was never informed of how violent they could be. He knows now!
shes on edibles
@@peterdennis491 Carl FUCKING Bernstein.
Yeah, was at Altimont. We drove nonstop from LA. Don't know how we heard about it. Was about 30 feet from the angels yellow school bus on the hill. It was filled with cases of beer and the angels would fling
beers and even six-packs in the air hitting people that didn't even see it coming. It was a real stone fest. We had our weed, LSD, southern comfort, and opium ( spent part of the time nodded out) But really we had a great time. To far away from the stage to see what was really going on. To us it was just a giant party.
Can you see yourself in the movie?
@vchavez0103 NO didn't see myself. I've watched it several times and always looked but haven't. I always pay attention to the beginning where people are walking in along the long line of cars. Remember walking past people filming but must have been cutout.
Altamont was indicative of the 60s Haight-Hashbury. After the influx of so many newbie flower children into a small area of San Francisco, it actually wasn't long before the bad elements moved in and started selling Speed, Smack, etc. It turned mean quickly.
Similar thing happened after the 2nd so called ‘ summer of love ‘ in 1988 here in England. Ecstasy and Acid House raves were the new movement and it was absolutely brilliant. Until the criminals realised that there was a lot of money to be made and they started cutting the ecstasy with any old rubbish, muscling in on the door security and robbing other party organisers. Then speed, cocaine and crack started entering the scene and it became very dark in a lot of places.
@@mrkipling2201 Interesting. Thanks for sharing that first-hand experience/memory.
@@Jamestele1 no problem thanks for reading and replying. 👍👍
@@mrkipling2201 when you base a "revolution" on people doing drugs, don't be surprised when people who exploit that movement come into the fold. Because it's very profitable being a drug dealer.
@@9999bigb it certainly is. Don’t remind me…..
Wow, this was awesome. I've been reading books by this manfor years, and never even knew what he sounded like. I wish he were my neighbor. I really like his perspective.
You can sense the frustration of the interviewer at some seeming contradictions or paradoxes from Selvin. It’s good that she tries to get clarification because many viewers don’t have pre-existing knowledge about this stuff.
Anybody who didn't see Gimme Shelter movie has no clue what they're talking about. Also Mick Jagger I think was supposedly a almost the victim of a hit off the coast of Long Island years later.
Around 42:00 Selvin attributes MT's solo on Can't You Hear Me Knockin' to some sort of change in the music as a result of Altamont (sounds like Santana, he says). To me the solo sounds like Mick Taylor, a fluid player who uses interesting note choices--like Santana or any player not just copying the blues note-for-note does. I don't think the Stones are all about making money, and Selvin is too quick to attribute blame only to them. He attributes the violence to San Jose HAs, but wasn't Sonny Barger from the Oakland chapter one of the first to jump into the audience to defend his motor cycle? Selvin may know he is being provacative defending the HAs, but does he so have to demean their victim and (to me) sound so flippant about him and his tough upbringing? Yes, don't bring a gun to a concert, but if you have and you're feeling your life is being threatened, wouldn't it be difficult not to pull it out? Selvin documents Altamont with great investigative work, but then editorializes with a bias against the Stones and for the poor, misunderstood HAs. The Grateful Dead appear to be getting a pass though they may have been as naive about the violence potential as the Stones--as many of us suburban hippies were at the time.
The guy's a bullshitter in a lot of ways.
The Dead were well aware of how dangerous the Angels were.
And what I really don't understand is, that he mensioned Hunter wasn't educated in any way. What has got that fact to do with anything?! And that Hunter had a beautiful blond at his side. So???
Is there any film or at least a photo of the crowd lifting Meredith Hunter's body onto to stage in front of Kieth Richard, with Jagger covering his face and looking away? This certainly was not shown in "Gimme Shelter." Does either footage or photo(s) exist?
@Careful with that Vax Euegene I've since learned there exists only a still photo of that particular moment. Not sure if the Maysles' cameras ever caught it.
Joel is apparently writing a book about the brilliant yet troubled drummer, Jim Gordon ..looking forward to that one
Very informative information from Mr Selvin…..and I have to give him a lot of credit for tolerating such obnoxious so-called journalist right there
If you knew your facts Joel you would know how Can't You Hear Me Knocking came to exist ... they were not copying Santana... after they cut the initial song the tape was not shut off and it kept rolling and they just were jamming and what came out of it was something so spectacular they decided take put that on the album so stop making it like Mick Taylor was trying to copy Carlos Santana. I think Taylor is a much more naturally gifted polished guitarist, a virtuoso if you will, than Carlos Santana even though he himself is a great guitarist, but the way Can't You Hear Me Knocking was recorded was because the tape kept running after they were done with the initial song and they all just jammed and that's how that recording happened and Mick Taylor played phenomenally on that and it had nothing to do with trying to copy Santana you must be kidding me Joel! Don't know where you got your information from but it's wrong buddy!
Agreed!! They were just about to make one of the best album trilogies we’ve ever seen and heard so I don’t think they’re going to be copying Santana!!
i thought so too
Taylor is a monster. Santana sucks.
Just finished Joel Selvin's book. It was great. Read it in five days.
I haven't read the book but I'm curious if he gets into the plot allegedly hatched by The Hells Angels to exact revenge by assassinating Mick Jagger at The Stones' Montauk, L.I., NY house where they lived while rehearsing for their 1976 tour. My understanding is that The Angels sailed in a boat with explosives and/or weapons across Long Island Sound from CT at night but a storm arose and boat with weapons was lost in the water and the plot was foiled. Sounds like God intervened to save Mick's life. abcnews.go.com/GMA/WinterConcert/story?id=4377532#:~:text=After%20fabled%20Altamont%20show%2C%20biker,to%20kill%20Rolling%20Stones%20frontman.&text=March%203%2C%202008%E2%80%94,documentary.
When you get the hells angels to police a show it will not go well . The show was a pure vanity project for jagger , I don't even think the rest stone's where into it . The San Francisco chapter of the angels was present at Altamonte , you can clearly see in gimme shelter film and bad quality acid.
The acid wasn't necessarily bad, set and setting are important elements to having a good trip and that setting wasn't conducive to having a smooth trip.
"We like beer" hilarious
was it budweiser?
It's always amazed me how the Grateful Dead have constantly managed to be spared their share of responsibility for the Altamont debacle when, after all, they were the ones who, in the first place, recommended the Hells Angels, maybe not the chapeter that wound up at Altamont, but how could the Stones know about the San Francisco chapter vs the San Jose chapter vs the Oakland chapter. The Dead (and their manager Rock Scully) knew about this and the various differences among chapters and should have been more involved. But they weren't. Then, at the festival itself, and this is critical, after arriving to perform in their alloted slot, the Grateful Dead, taking stock of the violence that had taken place up to that point, walked out on the event and left the premisis altogether, leaving a 2 hour gap before the Stones came on. The Dead, on their own home turf, with an audience that was their crowd, their people, bolted like cowards, fearing further violence. They could have had a soothing effect on the crowd if they'd performed. It may or may not have worked, but their unwillingness to try was reprehensible. They knew the Stones were now alone and didn't have the option of walking out. As bad as things were at the moment of the Dead's exit, there's no telling how much worse things might have degenerated had the Stones, too, walked out. The Grateful Dead's bailing essentially gave the message that the cared only about saving themselves. They didn't care about the state of affairs at Altamont. They didn't care about the pile of crap they were handing the Stones, leaving them to hold the bag when the time came to find blame for a festival gone awry. If this concert had been in London, on the Stones' home turf, and they had walked out on the Grateful Dead under similar circumstances, nobody would have hesitated to blame the Stones for chickening out, and rightfully so. Well, at Altamont, this is what the Grateful Dead did. Have they ever answered for this? Have any of their fellow California musicians that performed that day ever answered the question about the impact of the bailing by the Grateful Dead? These other bands all bailed themselves, but at least they performed. In the end, The Grateful Dead high-tailed it out of Altamont to save their own skins, the Stones be damned and the rest of the crowd as well.
I’m not really believing you Joel. You also said the 60 foot light towers had no lights on them. But they do , you can see one of the light tech dancing up on the tower during the Airplanes song.I liked you’re book, but the info was there to write.
He said the spotlights did not arrive. What kind of lights can you see during the airplane song? They probably had other types of lights up on them but no spots.
I didn't know they used nearly all the metal parts to build the towers. If they used the metal from just one of those towers to raise the stage a bit, some of the problems could have been averted. And if only they put the bikes safely under the stage (or pretty much anywhere else) the Angels would not have gotten nearly as violent.
I read somewhere that the Angel's main job was to protect the power generators that were running the lights and the sound system, and everything else. As far as protecting the stage, they figured parking the bikes in front of the stage would be all that was necessary to keep the crowd at bay. But when people rushed the stage the Angels found themselves having to protect their bikes from the crowd. Once they got damaged all bets were off.
There is a video of the whole concert that this guy does not know we can all see . It went fine for everyone but the people in the front . The hells angels in the front were drunk and , on camera , you see a hells Angel stab a black guy in a green suit in the back with a GIANT KNIFE . Its a huge knife . All of that happened by the stage , If you were not in front and by the stage and in the back you would not have known . A lot of people probably had a great time . The media needs to sell papers and books , like this guy , but we can all see footage of anything with the internet and writers making stories more grand is a time fo the past . We have video . The only issue was drunk losers like hells ANgels and they were a sole reason for killing a guy but most people did not see that happen . We only see because its on camera .
There is NOT a video of the whole concert we can all see. You're thinking of something else.
For sure
The black bloke had a gun and was waving it about. That’s why he was stabbed by the HA.
It was a very ugly day from the get go, I was on the racetrack a few hundred feet from the stage.
Just from my foggy memory of the 60s counterculture, it really wasn't any one group of people. There were many subcultures that intermingled with each other. The Hell's Angels were part of it. Did you know there was a difference between hippies and freaks. I learned this from my older brother. A lot of people thought they were one and the same. A hippie back then was known as someone who doesn't work. A freak was someone who has all the outward characteristics of a hippie, the hair clothes, lingo, uses drugs, etc., but the freak holds down a job. Altamont, like Woodstock was apparently set up to be this mega free concert in the park. Free concerts on a smaller scale worked because they were confined to smaller, urbanized spaces. There was more of a sense community. Even the SF HAs had more connection to their community than at a concert in the middle of nowhere like Altamont. Counterculture didn't end there, but I think it did quiet things down a bit.
No John, the difference between freaks and hippies wasn't as your brother said. With respect to him, the difference was nothing more than the word itself. Early in the 1960's, a younger crowd found the sensibilities of the Beat generation to be appealing, they started hanging around in the coffee houses and the beatniks referred to the young hipsters as hippies. The term "hippie" was picked up by the media and it became a cliché. In late 1967 the Diggers held a mock funeral for the hippie, hoping the media would stop covering the Haight/Summer of Love. Part of that mock funeral was an intent to eliminate the word hippie from the vernacular. Within the counterculture, everyone replaced the descriptor, "hippie" with "freak". The simple explanation is, within the counterculture, the word hippie was replaced by the word freak.
As the counterculture grew in numbers, the reasons for its existence started to fade and for some, it became a fashion. That connection to the sensibilities of the Beats and how it expanded to become the early counterculture was, by 1969, lost on the throngs of people who thought it was fashionable to play act as a hippie, grow their hair a little bit and smoke pot. By the time Disco reared its ugly head, those people were the first ones to throw out their love beads and headbands and start wearing platform shoes, permed hair and polyester leisure suits. The real freaks never gave up, they may have done what was necessary to survive adulthood but they still believe in the dream.
Then I consider myself a "freak"! @@if6was929
The Rolling Stones hired the Hells Angel's for security. They did that all the time in England, but in England, at the time the "Hells Angels" there were mostly playing dress up. When they came to America and the Bay Area where the real Hells Angels were from they thought they were hiring the same sort of people. Yet they hired the real deal. And paid them in beer. I mean come on, it's like paying Leopards in flesh and expect them to have high tea with nice people for 3 days.
I read the grateful dead did..stones UK, dead -sf.
the angel's were the dead's security. it was the dead's affiliation w ha that brought them to altamont. gd had a long time association w them. garcia appears in the hell's angels forever film, and the jgb used to be the house band for angels parties, and did benefits for sick kids o angels.
Holy shit....... I had NO idea that was Tabitha Soren until I started reading the comments.
Whoa lol holy shit
I curiously caught the part where Joel explained that murder victim Meredith Hunter's body was never medevacked from Altamont because the helicopter was reserved for The Stones. I saw the scenes where Hunter's body was supposedly loaded onto the helicopter which then departed and I noticed that the helicopter was red with white markings and looked exactly like the one that The Stones and their entourage boarded before it is seen immediately departing after the door was closed. I haven't double-checked yet but I'd bet that the identical footage was used for the departure ostensibly containing Hunter's body which also _doesn't_ show Hunter's body/gurney being loaded onto it. That's a deceptive cover-up and it sucks. Funny how the truth always comes out anyway because the truth can never be killed. Thank God for that.
Sam Cutler wrote a horrifying account in his book.
Yes, in many ways, the 1960s really DID end in December 1969.
Right. The Sixties ended on Dec 31, 1969, though math geeks say it technically ended Dec 31, 1970. (And that the Seventies started on Jan 1, 1971.)
Clearly!
altamont did it for me. i didn't even know anyone had been killed. but my three or four year stint with dropping acid, hitchhiking all over ended THAT DAY.
How insightful...
@@sleethmitchell That's the difference between a freak and a weekend hippie. A freak, dedicated to the movement, wasn't going to be affected by one event!
His astrology is crap. There was no 'Blood moon' (Lunar eclipse) on December 6th 1969. There was on April 2nd and September 25th.
Paul Evans. good point. Many know that the astro climate were not favorable. I dont recall nor know of a blood red moon on dec., 6, 1969. Reason being is that it didn`t happen on that date. looked for it on an ephemeris & it doesnt exist.
9:47 Joel almost makes a really funny mistake 😂
Joel should get his facts straight before he goes and talks publicly about Altamont because he's wrong about a lot of things just saying
How so and which facts ?
The Stones being skint at the time for one!!
Joel Selvin , fascinating man , the interviewer ? Bloody dreadful.
She had no idea what she was talking about.
Her wants accountability on a plate her does. Her does not want to hear anything positive about the music, her doesn't. She's special wittle SJW self wants everybody still alive to plop they poopers up on she's Oprah-wannabe-couch and be shamed over-and-over-and-over-and-over.....
Then her can feel sooooooo good about she's un-informed wittle bottom.
It's like hearing a sixth-grade hall monitor direct military traffic in the Middle East.
Can I get to meet Joel anywhere
His email address is in his Altamont book.
Very sad, what did they think would happen getting them for security. I'm just saying. Alot of probably nice but all it takes is a few assholes.
There's a convoluted history to this which Selvin outlines in the book, which is that the San Francisco chapter of the Hells Angels had a history of being a positive security presence for the scene at the time. The problem was that many of the hells angels that came to Altamont were not the SF chapter, they were from San Jose and other nearby places and didn't have the same ethics as the Hells Angels that were known for their association with the Grateful Dead
Even was an Hell's angel dancing and enjoying
Wasn't this gal on MTV?😊
The Stones weren’t even aware that someone asked for their helicopter to be used to evacuate Hunter out of there and to the hospital. This bloke certainly isn’t a fan of the Stones!! Or that’s how it looks to me!!
Yeah, The Stones were playing their set. I think people don't understand anything about flying, what's needed on a medi vac helicopter and pilots are not going to deviate from their "orders". Most come from a military background. Depending where the hospital was located could a helicopter even land at the hospital? Even today you can't land a helicopter at just any nearby hospital. Let's talk about a doctor not bothering to get an ambulance. Or not having an ambulance standing by at the event. Not a rock star singing unaware of what's going on behind the scene.
There we’re several helicopter’s. The bird that flys after MH death was not the same as the one the Stones used later…. ?!?!
The Hell's Angels had their bikes destroyed and they couldn't even get to them to try to get them out of the crowd. They got angry and with the amount of drugs and beer they consumed they lost it.
38:02 I'd like to hear that recording.
There is a bootleg available, made from a portable tape recorder in the audience, feet away from the stage. You can hear how much of Jagger's pleadings and frustrations were cut from the Gimme Shelter movie. And the correct order of the songs. But most revealing are the angry comments from the audience members next to the person with the tape recorder. They are NOT happy! This bootleg often shows up on RUclips.
Wonder why the hell he never made it available?
Its absurd to claim that any one event caused the end of the 1960's. After the Woodstock documentary was released millions of young people, realized that their parents, school teachers and the authorities were lying to them about the "hippies". They saw people having fun, swimming naked and listening to great music, a far cry from the image previously presented to them. These kids knew nothing about the reasons and the lineage of the movement. They started growing their hair and smoking pot, thinking that's what it was all about but under the skin they were as straight as their parents. It was just a fashion for them to follow. The counter became mainstream, the counterculture died from absorption. When Disco started, gone were their love beads and headbands and they started wearing platform shoes and polyester leisure suits, another fashion for them to follow. The core of the counterculture remained for years and to this day the sensibilities that started with the Beats and continued through the young hipsters they called hippies, lives in the hearts of the true believers. Neither Altamont, Manson or any other event killed that.
Selvin comes across as arrogant & self-righteous. The Stones were in their mid-twenties at the time & tried their best to get an impossible situation under control. It’s easy in retrospect to criticize, but Altamont was the culmination of many serious problems coming together in a perfect storm-anger & discontent in the Black community over MLK’s assassination & the ongoing struggle for social justice; increasing anger over the Vietnam war; disillusionment about the hippie values of peace & love; not to mention terrible conditions brought about by overzealous concert promoters who put the whole thing together at the very last minute without considering the basic human needs for food, water, bathroom facilities, & standby medical care. Furthermore, the Hell’s Angels in San Francisco (yes, the REAL Hell’s Angels, not the English copycats on scooters or whatever) had been hanging out at large concerts for years, mingling with the hippies & rock bands with no issues or violence. If the Stones were as selfish as Selvin says, they could have left 5 minutes after they arrived & saw the violence brewing. Imagine the riots & chaos that might have developed in that scenario. Instead, they did their very best to try to calm things down. And they might have been successful, if Meredith Hunter hadn’t pulled out a gun. It’s tragic he lost his life, but what in the world was he thinking, bringing a gun to an event like that??
It was a protest against the Peace Love. As witnam feelt
Let down
I read this book when it first came out and I think it was one of the best on altamont. I can't remember if it was said but the one biggest problems was the stones didn't know what the real angels were all about. Check out that one hyde park stones show and look at english angels, nothing like the real deal. That was only one problem but it was a biggie. Although why would a black guy bring a gun to a peace and love show? I'm completely on the angels side on that one, and if the stones knew anything about the HA they would have known better if they saw anyone fucking with the brothers bikes to call them out immediately and get them the fuck away from any angels bikes. Stoned, drunk idiot kids. They learned.
I read the girlfriends statement and the reason why he brought the gun was because it was rowdy and he wasn’t the only one packing and he could’ve shot anybody and he didn’t even while he was being stabbed he pointed it in the air and not at his attackers
I find the host to be quite intelligent and attractive.
MTV News
He’s a good looking guy isn’t he
Nadim Zaidi. Surely u r referring to the hostess. but hey... whatever floats your boat!!!!
They should review this event. And punish the people did this mess
Zz Zz. Exactly!!!!
Except they used the Hell’s Angels for security
Insightful in some ways but very questionable in others. As for what goes called the Hippie movement it actually took hold in the late 60s & dispersed about 1973 along side the end of the unpopular Vietnam War. It was in many ways a revolutionary movement for the times. As for the Hells Angels, there was no true connection to the Hippie movement, regardless of the chapter.
The further we get from the 60's, the more irrelevent it sounds.The interviewer would rather be anywhere that talking to the author.
Why does spoken USA sound
Over don,. We British mixed
So this guy "knows Hell's Angels"? He talks about the "initiates" who caused a lot of the trouble. How do you know any Angels, or a any clubbers for that matter, and not know that those probies are called "prospects"? And Altamont Raceway is NOT in Altamont, it's in Livermore. Serious bullshit artist we have here .... I can tell you, on December 6th 1969, I was standing on turn 3 of the Altamont Raceway watching everything unfold. The day did indeed have a bad vibe to it. It was a fairly raw day, and the scuffles started early on. We left in late afternoon, it had been enough of a clusterf*ck so that I wouldn't have stayed if The Beatles were coming up.
I was surprised that the author did not attend the concert. However, I read his book and it is heavily researched and very good, goes into great detail. I'm sure he knows "prospects" and used it in his book; he just didn't find the right word off the top of his head in the interview.
Also, surprised to see audience members stripping off their clothes despite the cold weather. Selvin talks about it in his book and offers explanation.
@@johnarnold8941 The fact remains, if it is "heavily researched", you're just using someone else's possibly faulty facts - maybe THEY weren't there either. Ultimately if you weren't literally AT an event, you don't genuinely "know" anything.
@@news603redux no--you could be a WW2 scholar without ever having been in WW2.
Didn't the black dued who died pull a gun?
I wish she had taken time to read the book, or even know anything about the subject. Terrible person to do the interview.
Good those hippies needed a reality check.
Maybe. Not everyone is the same. We tried
Rydz. I dont see what this SATANIC FESTIVAL had to do with some hippy.
@@zampieritto U suceeded!!!
Good to bring to light that the end of the Rolling Stones set that day was a success, and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. It kind of puts to rest some of the convenient narrative and the urban legend.
Keep in mind the vast majority of the publicised violence was around the stage. The masses on the far-away hills didn't know what was going on up at the stage. And when the stage-vicinity violence subsided (soon after the killing of Hunter), the Stones got down to business and put on a great remaining performance.
All I know is that if anybody touches my bike they're gonna get got.
The irony here is that far more deaths would probably have occurred had The Hells Angels not been there. 150,000 people, high on bad acid, and only a three and a half foot high stage? That would have been mayhem.
Man, why are you kidding everyone with your lies??? at least one great big lie ! because there was a helicopter for care. A special one. Smaller than that of the Stones. Just have a look at the Gimme shelter movie once more. You will see 2 helicopters. You can compare them... :( :( :(
I have heard that the cameraman was than one Steven Spielberg, I don't see anything Angelic at all.She can park her boots at my place anytime,
Don't know about Spielberg but George Lucas was.
@@GuitaristDog87 Well, she DOES have the female USB port you so desire.
Meredith Hunter pulled a long barreled pistol and began rushing towards the stage. The commentator in this video diminishes this fact by saying he was holding a gun. It destroys the factual context. I saw Meredith Hunter with the gun out, facing the stage he was denied to jump onto with the Stones. He was on meth, and schizophrenic. Hells angels probably saved a true future victim from being murdered. Hunter was killed in self defense.
I saw what [Hunter] was looking at, that he was crazy, he was on drugs, and that he had murderous intent," Grateful Dead manager Rock Scully said. "There was no doubt in my mind that he intended to do terrible harm to Mick or somebody in the Rolling Stones, or somebody on that stage."
And Mickey Hart, lead singer for the Jefferson Airplane said:
“He was headed right toward Mick with his gun pointed," Hart explained. "What [Angel Alan Passaro] did was really heroic in some ways, running toward somebody with a gun and confronting them."
Still don't believe? Here's the proof
images.app.goo.gl/e3TttFJa4E5TYYSeA
There's one thought that's been stuck in my mind for decades, and now I'm reading the testimony of somebody who saw the whole thing.
If Hunter really did point the pistol at Jagger, then that means that in spite of all the other stuff, the Angels actually completed the job they were hired to do.
Jagger walked away from the gig in one piece, and did not achieve room temperature, unlike the guy who tried to kill him.
It's all kinda cold blooded,
But facts is facts.
What happened to his girl , that night? Did she get wise or did she continue to keep bad company .
Dont mas with the Angels