My #1 Advice from personal experience. Dont buy AGM batteries. My 1600AH bank only lasted about a year. I never cycled it below 80% either. (Im still running those batteries 4 years in, but its miserable). Also, you will actually SAVE money by going lithium. I didn't realize this at first. A 200AH agm was about 500$ and a 200AH lithium was about 1000$. So I bought the "cheaper". But you can only use 20% of a lead acid / AGM battery, and 100% of lithium. So you are getting 5X the storage per battery if you go lithium. Also, This was one of the MOST informative off grid videos i've ever seen! This guy knows whats up. I learned a lot, thank you!!
Totally agree. Lithium has a higher up front cost but it is the low cost option for the long term. Had a friend convert his AGM bank to Lithium a couple of years ago. Once he was done he said he should have done it sooner.
Well thought out system for sure. More panels for me they are quiet and require very little maintenance but the generator has it's place in the system.
I have free natural gas and panels always win. It’s hard to find a high quality and easily serviced generators. More panels is more quiet and less maintenance. Oil changes, valve adjustments, filters, spark plugs, etc. they all add up. I’m slowly expanding my system but plan for 10k. A consistent charge every day greatly extends the life of batteries. My l16s are 13 years old. I expect 15 years. Over paneling greatly extends the life of the battery.
HOWdy D-P, ... Thank YOU for introducing us to CHRIS & Thank you Chris for walking us through your system COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...
Love it Chris! We came to the same conclusions about a lot of things like DC lighting and automated source selection. I just wanted to suggest you consider one change; rather than 3 days of autonomy, consider more panels and less battery. Even on a cloudy day, you get some power from a solar panel so can recharge batteries during a long cloudy streak. By balancing the dollars spent on panels and batteries, you may see the least generator run time for your money and on good days you get extra power to store as heat or other cheap energy storage. Also, really like your arched top gazebo. Nice!
I don't recall them mentioning the price of anything at all and given that the property has no utility power how could anyone possibly know what the cost comparison would be between Off-Grid equipment and bringing the grid to the property maybe thousands of feet or even a couple of miles. Its entirely possible the proposed solar system described in the video costs LESS. So really what is your point? Lastly, we have no control over utility rates so when electricity gets to $1+ per kWh that so called massive, capital intensive system will be looking pretty good and cost effective as well.
Cost can vary a lot depending on if you DIY a system vs have a turn-key install. I personally don't mind sharing what I spend on things but my concern is whether those prices would translate to your location if it is different from mine. I tend to not have labor costs in my projects since I do the work myself and at most have friends to lend a hand when its something I can't physically do alone.
They aren't as expensive as you might think. The key difference is the size of the check you write once, vs. the ones you write every month to the power company. It's not hard to do the math. (and with rising electricity costs, these systems look better every day.)
I like solar over generators but not exclusively. dc to the house is a great idea but not just for lighting. Appliances are another option for dc as well.
Depending on who is doing the wiring, a simple relay setup would allow you to run the lights on either AC or DC. Sylvania makes an incandescent style LED bulb that can run on either. Rated at 120VAC they also will work on 60+VDC. I have a 24VDC system where I step the Voltage up to 65VDC for lighting in the shed using a MingHe MPPT 7210A. It would take a lot of those LED bulbs to get to a 10 Amp load. They actually start to light up at 30VDC but you need the higher Voltages to get better lighting.
Very true. Many of the lights can be modified internally to run on lower voltages as well. If you choose to run the LEDs at lower power levels it dramatically increases their life and reliability .
@gravelydon7072 So you connect the 7210a straight to battery on the solar side and then on the battery side you run lights without any battery? I have always been hesitant to hook my input side straight up to a battery. I'd love to do some battery to battery charging with it, mostly 12v to 48v but never wanted to risk frying it. Haha. (What I'm afraid of is supplying too many available amps to the solar input side). I have speculated that the controller will throttle some mosfets inside of it and keep the output amps down and be ok. I've just never seen it done before. So I assume in your case the controller raises to the set desired "battery" voltage that you set and stays there?
I manage a schneider system just like this one but with 10kw and using 2 80 amp 600v charge controllers. I have a ground fault on one that doesnt go away regardless of replacing fuses or adjusting the string. Did everything in the manual but no change.
Have you had anyone come in with a leakage meter to help isolate where the ground fault is located? Could be caused by a faulty panel or even a bad spot in some wire insulation.
Great video with great info / content. Question: I am looking to convert my wood shop to 'all solar' - would Chris or you recommend a particular book or URL to gain proper knowledge in building such?
As someone who has done the 48v lighting, if I had to do it again I would just install a small 1200va Victron multiplus dedicated to lights. You then have redundancy as you can switch it over to the other inverter system if you have a problem. Running all DC lighting is quite the hassle and doesn't really give you any benefit.
@@rdcabal Absolutely an option. Something to consider when building out your system is any standby losses you incur. Running an inverter continuously when you need it mostly for lighting in the evening could cost you more energy than your realize depending on how much power the inverter uses to just be turned on. Even a very efficient inverter may cost you 500 to 1000 w/hr per day to operate. That can easily eclipse the amount of power you need for the lighting itself. Everything is a tradeoff. Evaluate your options carefully.
You guys in america use so much power! I live in europe and i have 3kw solar aray and i never use more than 400Kw a month even with electric water heater, Ac, dishwasher, dryer, 2 frezer, and all the usual stuf
i've run my lighting in my house from dc for over a decade which has worked great. now i plan to run everything else via inverter. cooking and hot water is gas but will be converted to LPG which i can fill at service stations myself.
Great share - enjoyed! - David - do you have any material that discusses taking a current grid-tie system and net metering system to a either adding a battery bank system or incorporating a battery bank system and maintain current grid-tie setup; or is that even possible?
You can net meter with or without battery storage. You just have to buy an inverter that can handle all the different power options you are interested in. As an example, as nice as the Schneider inverters are they can't be used without batteries. They can do grid tie and sell surplus solar power but you still have to invest in some battery storage. There are options such as SMA inverters that can start as grid tie whiteout batteries and if you decide to add batteries later, you can. Its best to lay out your energy goals then start doing the research on what equipment fits those goals.
You absolutely can! I have an 802a These sets will literally just run and run and run until it’s out of fuel Their known for 20-30k hours without issue if you change the filters and oil
Yes, build for efficiency from the start and it won't require as much power. I'm currently building on 7 acres doing as much of it myself as possible and yes I am over building.
For the money spent on all of those diesel-sucking generators, you could have oversized your array enough so that you wouldn’t need a generator. For my off grid home/shop…34kWp, 17MWH produced, less than 10 hrs on my LP Generac 10kW and 5 of 400 gallons of LP consumed. I have a smaller backup 48V Solar system and then an even smaller 24V backup to that. Then two tiny 12V backups to all of that.
Hey Dave, I took out my outback charge controllers and put in 2 Victron controllers and now my generator back won’t charge the batteries with my outback inverter and the error light comes on in the inverter, any suggestions
I have very limited experience with Outback equipment. Short answer is, "no" I don't know why that's happening. I can suggest the same thing I personally did: When I tested feeding my generator through my Schneider inverter I had some problems. Nothing major, but it was glitchy. I didn't like it. So, instead of running the generator through my inverter, I bought a separate charge controller. This is what I bought: signaturesolar.com/eg4-chargeverter-gc-48v-100a-battery-charger-5120w-output-240-120v-input-pre-order/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- (affiliate link) I also have a video on it. (My video uses the older model which is yellow)
I've had very good success using Battery Hookups 100A BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff?variant=42745018286242 You will want to select "16s LiFePO4" from the drop down list. If you have a unique situation where you need more Amps, for example, a Golf Cart, then go with the contactor based BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms?variant=43085312884898 If you would like to help support the channel, then please use my discount code during checkout DAVIDPOZ
Those MEP gensets are nothing but trouble, anybody who uses them much has ripped them out and replaced them with something commercial. 10x the wires, relays, and complication than needed to produce a working genset.
Awesome! Retired USAF mobile radar guy here...we used most of those generators and shelters in the field. We also used the MEP-806A units (60kw) quite a bit and the TAC-quiets. I wasn't an AGE troop, but had to know how to run these generators. Do you have a mobilizer for that S530 shelter?
Great vid. Not sure I really agree on DC everything as AC is much safer and better over long distances, and easier to integrate things in the future. But I kinda get it.
Wind turbines are viable in some locations in NC. You find lots of them at the coast. You don't find them inland because the wind patterns don't support enough generation to make it worth it.
Generators are awesome for a backup to solar. But the noise is horrible. Living out in the woods, wanting to hear the birds and nature an inverter generator is the ONLY way to go. A very quiet purr is fine. No thanks to military generators!
handy for a few days after a hurricane takes out your grid connection, but certainly wouldn't want it to kick on every time you have 3 cloudy days in a row
Modern car engines are often really quiet, and relatively efficient, at least compared to most portable generators. Yet for some reason hardly anyone seems to consider it important to design generators with quiet engines, or for high thermodynamic efficiency. Additionally, no generator manufacturer that I am aware of is currently selling noise damping generator closets/boxes/enclosures. Instead, the generator manufacturers simply affix a warning label on the generator, telling people not to operate them indoors, so that the generator noise pollution can more easily annoy the neighbors and enable thieves to more easily steal the generator by virtue of being operated outdoors in an unsecured/unattended fashion. One would think that the US military would value "stealthiness", when invading another country, and that they would try to minimize noise generation, in order to better hide their campout positions from the adversary forces. However, that does not appear to be the case, at least to a large extent. Apparently, extremely noisy generators are totally okay, as the US military evidently does not think it needs to be stealthy, nor does it need to provide its servicemembers with a good night's rest so that they do not make unnecessary mistakes on the battlefield.
For sure the generator is going to be louder than mother nature. The low RPM of the military machines has a much different sound than the high RPM machines. Its not harsh or thrashy. Still not something I want to listen to often but it is a welcome sound when its really needed. Inverter generators are a great option for temporary power. They give you the benefits of lower fuel consumption and noise versus a high RPM constant speed generator.
@@Fritz_Schlunder Anywhere you're likely to run a generator will be MILES from the front lines. And these things are way quieter than a tank rolling by. Many of the larger generator manufacturers do sell enclosures, but you aren't going to find those in the isle as Lowes with your 2kw honda. They put those idiot labels on there _because people are idiots_ who will run a gasoline burning (CO spewing) engine inside their house. A running generator should never be "unattended". (you'll be in the house, near it, and notice when idiots turn it off/disconnect it and drag it across the yard. In my parts of NC, you'll get shot for shit like that!)
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
My #1 Advice from personal experience. Dont buy AGM batteries. My 1600AH bank only lasted about a year. I never cycled it below 80% either. (Im still running those batteries 4 years in, but its miserable). Also, you will actually SAVE money by going lithium. I didn't realize this at first. A 200AH agm was about 500$ and a 200AH lithium was about 1000$. So I bought the "cheaper". But you can only use 20% of a lead acid / AGM battery, and 100% of lithium. So you are getting 5X the storage per battery if you go lithium.
Also, This was one of the MOST informative off grid videos i've ever seen! This guy knows whats up. I learned a lot, thank you!!
Totally agree. Lithium has a higher up front cost but it is the low cost option for the long term. Had a friend convert his AGM bank to Lithium a couple of years ago. Once he was done he said he should have done it sooner.
Passive house building principles make for a perfect pairing with off-grid when it comes to energy conservation!
Well thought out system for sure. More panels for me they are quiet and require very little maintenance but the generator has it's place in the system.
I have free natural gas and panels always win. It’s hard to find a high quality and easily serviced generators. More panels is more quiet and less maintenance. Oil changes, valve adjustments, filters, spark plugs, etc. they all add up.
I’m slowly expanding my system but plan for 10k. A consistent charge every day greatly extends the life of batteries. My l16s are 13 years old. I expect 15 years. Over paneling greatly extends the life of the battery.
Yeah, a generator should always be the backup; it shouldn't be part of the main or everyday source of power.
Wow! Thanks for sharing! It’s nice to see some diy on the battery side. I didn’t know about the shelter thing. I will look into that.
It's not necessary but a lot safer. In case of fire, would be better to lose the shed over your house.
Chis is a genius, you guys got it all figure out with the backup system for survival, Thank you for sharing this....Peace
Very cool setup. The mans a practical thinker I see why you heed his advise cheers.
He has a wealth of knowledge and a lot of great ideas
HOWdy D-P, ...
Thank YOU for introducing us to CHRIS
&
Thank you Chris for walking us through your system
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
I wish I knew 25% as much as you. two do. Great video. A lot to think about in this video.. thanks for another great video..
Love it Chris! We came to the same conclusions about a lot of things like DC lighting and automated source selection. I just wanted to suggest you consider one change; rather than 3 days of autonomy, consider more panels and less battery. Even on a cloudy day, you get some power from a solar panel so can recharge batteries during a long cloudy streak. By balancing the dollars spent on panels and batteries, you may see the least generator run time for your money and on good days you get extra power to store as heat or other cheap energy storage. Also, really like your arched top gazebo. Nice!
i'm always bewildered when i see people putting in massive and capital intensive systems.
I don't recall them mentioning the price of anything at all and given that the property has no utility power how could anyone possibly know what the cost comparison would be between Off-Grid equipment and bringing the grid to the property maybe thousands of feet or even a couple of miles. Its entirely possible the proposed solar system described in the video costs LESS. So really what is your point? Lastly, we have no control over utility rates so when electricity gets to $1+ per kWh that so called massive, capital intensive system will be looking pretty good and cost effective as well.
Cost can vary a lot depending on if you DIY a system vs have a turn-key install. I personally don't mind sharing what I spend on things but my concern is whether those prices would translate to your location if it is different from mine. I tend to not have labor costs in my projects since I do the work myself and at most have friends to lend a hand when its something I can't physically do alone.
They aren't as expensive as you might think. The key difference is the size of the check you write once, vs. the ones you write every month to the power company. It's not hard to do the math. (and with rising electricity costs, these systems look better every day.)
I like solar over generators but not exclusively. dc to the house is a great idea but not just for lighting. Appliances are another option for dc as well.
Welcome to North Carolina! We have a great state, here.
Very well thought out. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Heh, "im so glad you asked!". This video is the best.
Chris is a legend in these here parts...LEGEND
Please remove the last name, or I will have to remove the comment.
My bad, didn't think about that.@@DavidPozEnergy
Thank you.
Depending on who is doing the wiring, a simple relay setup would allow you to run the lights on either AC or DC. Sylvania makes an incandescent style LED bulb that can run on either. Rated at 120VAC they also will work on 60+VDC. I have a 24VDC system where I step the Voltage up to 65VDC for lighting in the shed using a MingHe MPPT 7210A. It would take a lot of those LED bulbs to get to a 10 Amp load. They actually start to light up at 30VDC but you need the higher Voltages to get better lighting.
Very true. Many of the lights can be modified internally to run on lower voltages as well. If you choose to run the LEDs at lower power levels it dramatically increases their life and reliability
.
@gravelydon7072
So you connect the 7210a straight to battery on the solar side and then on the battery side you run lights without any battery?
I have always been hesitant to hook my input side straight up to a battery. I'd love to do some battery to battery charging with it, mostly 12v to 48v but never wanted to risk frying it. Haha. (What I'm afraid of is supplying too many available amps to the solar input side). I have speculated that the controller will throttle some mosfets inside of it and keep the output amps down and be ok. I've just never seen it done before.
So I assume in your case the controller raises to the set desired "battery" voltage that you set and stays there?
I manage a schneider system just like this one but with 10kw and using 2 80 amp 600v charge controllers. I have a ground fault on one that doesnt go away regardless of replacing fuses or adjusting the string. Did everything in the manual but no change.
Have you had anyone come in with a leakage meter to help isolate where the ground fault is located? Could be caused by a faulty panel or even a bad spot in some wire insulation.
Those generators are awesome
Hey just came across this tutorial video. I like that setup.
Im looking for a Mep-802 Have any for sale ?
Check the description for e-mail address.
Great video with great info / content. Question: I am looking to convert my wood shop to 'all solar' - would Chris or you recommend a particular book or URL to gain proper knowledge in building such?
As someone who has done the 48v lighting, if I had to do it again I would just install a small 1200va Victron multiplus dedicated to lights. You then have redundancy as you can switch it over to the other inverter system if you have a problem. Running all DC lighting is quite the hassle and doesn't really give you any benefit.
I would just install a small 48-120 inverter in the house for ligth breakers
@@rdcabal Absolutely an option. Something to consider when building out your system is any standby losses you incur. Running an inverter continuously when you need it mostly for lighting in the evening could cost you more energy than your realize depending on how much power the inverter uses to just be turned on. Even a very efficient inverter may cost you 500 to 1000 w/hr per day to operate. That can easily eclipse the amount of power you need for the lighting itself.
Everything is a tradeoff. Evaluate your options carefully.
Yeah, just put it in a small Victron Phoenix inverter.
Yes, more please.
Schneider is a fairly reputable brand from my limited experience. I have seen them installed in critical applications in power plants.
AMAZING guy and house and plan!
You guys in america use so much power! I live in europe and i have 3kw solar aray and i never use more than 400Kw a month even with electric water heater, Ac, dishwasher, dryer, 2 frezer, and all the usual stuf
How do you energize your electromagnetic shields and raygun howitzers? :)
As someone who works on RVs, the future plans sounded like a camper without axles, lol
It's always a delight to watch your video
❤
Schneider inverters truly the most reliable inverter out there yes n outback fx series
David - thank you so much for posting this video. I will contact, Chris - directly on the mil-spec generator.
Awesome video Great work!!!
Thank you.
i've run my lighting in my house from dc for over a decade which has worked great. now i plan to run everything else via inverter. cooking and hot water is gas but will be converted to LPG which i can fill at service stations myself.
You should revisit the alternator generator and use two alternators instead of one
If you just put 2 24v dc lights in series you wouldn't need a buck converter and that would be even more reliable
Nice setup! Any concern with vandalism or theft? I’d be terrified to leave this unattended.
Sentry gun
Better get going....time waits for nobody!
Great share - enjoyed! - David - do you have any material that discusses taking a current grid-tie system and net metering system to a either adding a battery bank system or incorporating a battery bank system and maintain current grid-tie setup; or is that even possible?
You can net meter with or without battery storage. You just have to buy an inverter that can handle all the different power options you are interested in. As an example, as nice as the Schneider inverters are they can't be used without batteries. They can do grid tie and sell surplus solar power but you still have to invest in some battery storage.
There are options such as SMA inverters that can start as grid tie whiteout batteries and if you decide to add batteries later, you can. Its best to lay out your energy goals then start doing the research on what equipment fits those goals.
I have an MEP803A and plan to use it at a mountain home. I wonder if I could use it as sole power for a garage/shop
You absolutely can!
I have an 802a
These sets will literally just run and run and run until it’s out of fuel
Their known for 20-30k hours without issue if you change the filters and oil
Great info. I want the same thing. Thanks for sharing
Awesome! What batteries does he use?
Yes, build for efficiency from the start and it won't require as much power.
I'm currently building on 7 acres doing as much of it myself as possible and yes I am over building.
Great video
Good stuff 👍
For the money spent on all of those diesel-sucking generators, you could have oversized your array enough so that you wouldn’t need a generator. For my off grid home/shop…34kWp, 17MWH produced, less than 10 hrs on my LP Generac 10kW and 5 of 400 gallons of LP consumed. I have a smaller backup 48V Solar system and then an even smaller 24V backup to that. Then two tiny 12V backups to all of that.
I do not see where the info about CHRIS is…. You say the info is in the description …. ???
Sorry…. I found the info…. Thanks David
Panels without a doubt.
Hey Dave, I took out my outback charge controllers and put in 2 Victron controllers and now my generator back won’t charge the batteries with my outback inverter and the error light comes on in the inverter, any suggestions
I have very limited experience with Outback equipment. Short answer is, "no" I don't know why that's happening. I can suggest the same thing I personally did:
When I tested feeding my generator through my Schneider inverter I had some problems. Nothing major, but it was glitchy. I didn't like it. So, instead of running the generator through my inverter, I bought a separate charge controller. This is what I bought: signaturesolar.com/eg4-chargeverter-gc-48v-100a-battery-charger-5120w-output-240-120v-input-pre-order/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- (affiliate link) I also have a video on it. (My video uses the older model which is yellow)
Good survival instincts
Hey David which bms would you recommend for the 280ah catl cells from battery hookup?I want to build my own 48v battery from these cells.thanks
I've had very good success using Battery Hookups 100A BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff?variant=42745018286242
You will want to select "16s LiFePO4" from the drop down list.
If you have a unique situation where you need more Amps, for example, a Golf Cart, then go with the contactor based BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/7s-21s-24v-75v-300a-lithium-ion-bms?variant=43085312884898
If you would like to help support the channel, then please use my discount code during checkout DAVIDPOZ
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks David I will certainly use the promo code!
Those MEP gensets are nothing but trouble, anybody who uses them much has ripped them out and replaced them with something commercial. 10x the wires, relays, and complication than needed to produce a working genset.
Awesome! Retired USAF mobile radar guy here...we used most of those generators and shelters in the field. We also used the MEP-806A units (60kw) quite a bit and the TAC-quiets. I wasn't an AGE troop, but had to know how to run these generators. Do you have a mobilizer for that S530 shelter?
really cool video
Great vid. Not sure I really agree on DC everything as AC is much safer and better over long distances, and easier to integrate things in the future. But I kinda get it.
So, I am guessing the batteries are from an electric BMW car? wasn't aware they had one - and wonder how a person can find some similar?
BMW i3 (1st gen) Not the greatest tech these days, but for the cost, they get the job done.
Sweet.
I too have this exact military generator and I can honestly say. They’re amazingly powerful.
Well he hasn't put any thought into this. 😂 /teasing
Wow, this is a great video. Chris, do you have a RUclips channel?
Yes, people who install an inverter 6x the capacity of the load will have no over-load issues. Duh.
Plug burned Honda geni, put a plug on, good to go
Generators are dangerous. You never want the zombies to hear you.....
A good reason to keep them out at a power house and away from the main residence. :)
Overkill!
Have you ever entertained wind turbines?
Wind turbines are viable in some locations in NC. You find lots of them at the coast. You don't find them inland because the wind patterns don't support enough generation to make it worth it.
Generators are awesome for a backup to solar. But the noise is horrible. Living out in the woods, wanting to hear the birds and nature an inverter generator is the ONLY way to go. A very quiet purr is fine. No thanks to military generators!
handy for a few days after a hurricane takes out your grid connection, but certainly wouldn't want it to kick on every time you have 3 cloudy days in a row
Modern car engines are often really quiet, and relatively efficient, at least compared to most portable generators. Yet for some reason hardly anyone seems to consider it important to design generators with quiet engines, or for high thermodynamic efficiency. Additionally, no generator manufacturer that I am aware of is currently selling noise damping generator closets/boxes/enclosures. Instead, the generator manufacturers simply affix a warning label on the generator, telling people not to operate them indoors, so that the generator noise pollution can more easily annoy the neighbors and enable thieves to more easily steal the generator by virtue of being operated outdoors in an unsecured/unattended fashion.
One would think that the US military would value "stealthiness", when invading another country, and that they would try to minimize noise generation, in order to better hide their campout positions from the adversary forces. However, that does not appear to be the case, at least to a large extent. Apparently, extremely noisy generators are totally okay, as the US military evidently does not think it needs to be stealthy, nor does it need to provide its servicemembers with a good night's rest so that they do not make unnecessary mistakes on the battlefield.
Those MEP802s are pretty quiet when the doors are closed. Good mufflers and 1800 RPM keeps the noise down.
For sure the generator is going to be louder than mother nature. The low RPM of the military machines has a much different sound than the high RPM machines. Its not harsh or thrashy. Still not something I want to listen to often but it is a welcome sound when its really needed. Inverter generators are a great option for temporary power. They give you the benefits of lower fuel consumption and noise versus a high RPM constant speed generator.
@@Fritz_Schlunder Anywhere you're likely to run a generator will be MILES from the front lines. And these things are way quieter than a tank rolling by. Many of the larger generator manufacturers do sell enclosures, but you aren't going to find those in the isle as Lowes with your 2kw honda. They put those idiot labels on there _because people are idiots_ who will run a gasoline burning (CO spewing) engine inside their house. A running generator should never be "unattended". (you'll be in the house, near it, and notice when idiots turn it off/disconnect it and drag it across the yard. In my parts of NC, you'll get shot for shit like that!)