Every time I watch a Doug Brignole tutorial; I always learn something new and come away with a different way of seeing things. I love dips and use them as a finishing off exercise. I feel it mostly in my chest and then triceps.
Dips the way Vince Gironda taught them with hands on a V tapered bar and chin to chest are on a whole different level! He was a true fitness 'guru' ahead of his time.
Buying his book during lockdown and using those biomechanical principles was a revelation and complete game changer for me. Suggest you buy his great book... Physics of Resistance Exercise and apply those principles for say 3 months and then decide if you want to implement some or all of them in your training.
I can imagine the problem is support and stability. Output is limited due to lack of support. The shoulder girdle is also in a very awkward position laying on one's side, in my experience. That's one reason I never do side lying external rotations and always use a cable, standing up.
Buy his book folks (physics of resistance exercise) pretty sure 95% of the arguments are going to disappear. It is science and it's gonna take time before a culture shift toward the healthy way of training and opening mind about how to find a better approach to leave the old habits behind.
I use a rubber band hung between my dip bar handles. Then when I get into position, I put the band under my knees and use it to reduce my body weight while I do the dips. This way it allows me to do the exercise through the whole range of motion using good form.
@@hi1953 compound doesn't even really mean much except multiple joints move. Doesn't mean that multiple muscles are actually trained, depending on where you maintain the line of resistance.
Dips are definitely overrated as a tricep exercise. I used to begin my triceps days with dips and ive come to realise its just completely sabotaging the rest of my workout. Im seeing much better results with using only isolation exercises for triceps.
Like Doug explained, dips with a fixed hand position are neither a good exercise for the triceps (since the forearm is mostly neutral = parallel with resistance, which makes it an ineffective operating lever for the triceps) nor for the chest, as you can't bring the operating levers (the humerus) directly away from, and then directly toward, the Pectoral origins. For a good chest exercise, you have to move the humerus (upper arm bone) laterally outwards, then medially inwards, that's how the majority of the chest muscle fibers are working. Dips are also stressing the shoulder joint, especially if one doesn't keep their shoulder actively pushed back and downwards.
Explain your logic please. I suspect you have conflated this with what happens in a 45 degree leg press, which is completely different. Yes a 45 degree leg press provides 71% of the load. In this lateral raise scenario, the mass is not being shoved up a 45 degree hill. The calculation is based on the moment arm, which is at its maximum at the top (arm at 90 degrees), but only at 50% when the lever (arm) reaches 45 degrees.
@BodyOpt The logic is the force of gravity can be resolved into two components. One is parallel with the arm ( lever ), and the other one is perpendicular with the arm. The loading is the second one. So, it is at its maximum at the top ( 90 degrees ), and zero at the bottom ( 0 degree). But for 45 degrees, it's 70% = 1/1.44, based on sin/cos mathematica. Hope it helps. I'm trying to show you an illustration link, but I'm sorry RUclips will remove the comment automatically.
@@benpptung074 what have you studied to reach this conclusion? You are calculating trigonometry when, in this instance, you should be calculating the moment arm to the shoulder joint. Resistance (in this case, torque at the shoulder) = moment arm x load Are you sure you think holding a weight at 45 degrees provides 71% of the resistance at the shoulder, versus 100% when perpendicular?
@BodyOpt I'm talking about this: ruclips.net/video/dCnlimpLJqU/видео.html . I respect Doug, and I learned a lot from his book. It's just I am thinking it's not 50% of the weight at that moment 45 degrees. Based on the Vectors - Motion and Forces in Two Dimensions I learned in my high school, I think it's 71% at 45 degrees. It's not a linear regression starting from 0 degree to 90 degree, instead it's a Michaelis-Menten saturation curve, and after 30 degrees, the lateral raise would soon be very heavy. It's ok 50% or 70%, I believe Doug's point is lateral raise is a late phase loading, and as a result, the exercise initially feels "too light" in the early part of its range of motion, but then it feels "too heavy" at the conclusion of its range motion.
@@benpptung074 Impressive linking me to the exact part of the clip! I'm a Luddite haha. His wording is incorrect, technically. He literally mentions those percentages.."of this ten pound weight". I'm pretty sure what he means is "percentages of the RESISTANCE offered by the ten pound weight", which is a very different thing. Torque (moment arm x force) at the shoulder is zero at the bottom, maximum at the top (perpendicular), and yes I'm pretty sure it's 50% at 45 degrees....because the moment arm is half as long as at 90 degrees (surely that part is right?). I just drew a 4cm square and a diagonal line across it corner to corner, which is about 5.5cm. So for X amount of travel at 45 degrees, yes you definitely achieve only 71% in the vertical (opposing gravity) direction. This is one big reason why you need so much load on a 45 degree leg press. I *mainly* use cables, where the load/mass is always travelling vertically in the stack. For free weights, inertia is certainly a massive factor ( I wish punters understood this and in most cases slowed things down!). I'm struggling to figure out where the Curve you mention fits in here. It might do, but I *think* it's a misapplication? I am sure that the resistance to the joint comes down to moment arm. Basically the *force angle* provides maximum efficiency when the upper arm is horizontal (gravity meets the lever at 90 degrees), but is 50% efficient when the lever is at 45 degrees. Sheesh lol my brain is trying to figure out the relevance of the curvilinear motion involved in most exercises (well, ell single joint ones). So you are saying that the 10lb weight only provides 7.1lb of force at 45 degrees? If that's true, and if we can agree that the moment arm at 45 degrees is half of at 90, then the torque (resistance) at 45 degrees would be even LESS than half vs 90 degrees?!
Fundamentally disagree with Doug here. The dip is the single most anabolic upper body exercise when done properly it activates a ton of triceps, shoulders, chest and stabilizer muscles. I respect Mr. Brignole and he has a good grasp on biomechanics, but the dip is just such a powerful exercise that one would be doing himself/herself a disservice not to use it.
@@Jorge.A.12 he's still scrambling for an answer. "Pressing" as a category tells you little - could be mainly pecs, delts, even triceps, and even the biceps can be used to complete a press.
Well no. From a hypertrophy standpoint it certainly is not, and that's not even up for debate that's physics and biomechanics. If you want to do it, sure go ahead, if you want to maximise your time and be efficient with working the muscle it certainly is not.
RIP Doug Brignole! You will be missed by so many!
Every time I watch a Doug Brignole tutorial; I always learn something new and come away with a different way of seeing things. I love dips and use them as a finishing off exercise. I feel it mostly in my chest and then triceps.
Golden advice, as always.
Dips the way Vince Gironda taught them with hands on a V tapered bar and chin to chest are on a whole different level! He was a true fitness 'guru' ahead of his time.
Yes Girronda solved the problem with his V tapered wide dip bars. I loved using those.
He was right, except his percentages are off a little. The parallel bar dip works the triceps about 20%, not 5%.
Buying his book during lockdown and using those biomechanical principles was a revelation and complete game changer for me. Suggest you buy his great book... Physics of Resistance Exercise and apply those principles for say 3 months and then decide if you want to implement some or all of them in your training.
5:20 AWW lokk at those love birds in the background
Done dips for years never had a problem
those side laterals while laying on your side are no joke , getting 25lbs up was not easy
I can imagine the problem is support and stability. Output is limited due to lack of support. The shoulder girdle is also in a very awkward position laying on one's side, in my experience. That's one reason I never do side lying external rotations and always use a cable, standing up.
Buy his book folks (physics of resistance exercise) pretty sure 95% of the arguments are going to disappear.
It is science and it's gonna take time before a culture shift toward the healthy way of training and opening mind about how to find a better approach to leave the old habits behind.
I use a rubber band hung between my dip bar handles. Then when I get into position, I put the band under my knees and use it to reduce my body weight while I do the dips. This way it allows me to do the exercise through the whole range of motion using good form.
Doug's got it down to a science.
🐐
It’s a compound movement. It’s a chest , tricep and front delt exercise
@@hi1953 compound doesn't even really mean much except multiple joints move. Doesn't mean that multiple muscles are actually trained, depending on where you maintain the line of resistance.
Damn this is hard to watch in a way, knowing he is no longer with us.
What about ring dips for chest?
it's like doing dumbbell presses with your bodyweight
Dips are definitely overrated as a tricep exercise. I used to begin my triceps days with dips and ive come to realise its just completely sabotaging the rest of my workout. Im seeing much better results with using only isolation exercises for triceps.
Bryan Callen
Because the type of dip ur showing is mostly front delt and chest🤦🏻♂️
I do parallelbar dips for chest....
Yeah I lean forward for chest.
Like Doug explained, dips with a fixed hand position are neither a good exercise for the triceps (since the forearm is mostly neutral = parallel with resistance, which makes it an ineffective operating lever for the triceps) nor for the chest, as you can't bring the operating levers (the humerus) directly away from, and then directly toward, the Pectoral origins. For a good chest exercise, you have to move the humerus (upper arm bone) laterally outwards, then medially inwards, that's how the majority of the chest muscle fibers are working. Dips are also stressing the shoulder joint, especially if one doesn't keep their shoulder actively pushed back and downwards.
Doug is correct, but It is 70% of the dumbbell weight if the angle is 45 degree doing seated dumbbell raise.
Explain your logic please.
I suspect you have conflated this with what happens in a 45 degree leg press, which is completely different. Yes a 45 degree leg press provides 71% of the load.
In this lateral raise scenario, the mass is not being shoved up a 45 degree hill. The calculation is based on the moment arm, which is at its maximum at the top (arm at 90 degrees), but only at 50% when the lever (arm) reaches 45 degrees.
@BodyOpt The logic is the force of gravity can be resolved into two components. One is parallel with the arm ( lever ), and the other one is perpendicular with the arm. The loading is the second one. So, it is at its maximum at the top ( 90 degrees ), and zero at the bottom ( 0 degree). But for 45 degrees, it's 70% = 1/1.44, based on sin/cos mathematica. Hope it helps. I'm trying to show you an illustration link, but I'm sorry RUclips will remove the comment automatically.
@@benpptung074 what have you studied to reach this conclusion?
You are calculating trigonometry when, in this instance, you should be calculating the moment arm to the shoulder joint. Resistance (in this case, torque at the shoulder) = moment arm x load
Are you sure you think holding a weight at 45 degrees provides 71% of the resistance at the shoulder, versus 100% when perpendicular?
@BodyOpt I'm talking about this: ruclips.net/video/dCnlimpLJqU/видео.html . I respect Doug, and I learned a lot from his book. It's just I am thinking it's not 50% of the weight at that moment 45 degrees. Based on the Vectors - Motion and Forces in Two Dimensions I learned in my high school, I think it's 71% at 45 degrees. It's not a linear regression starting from 0 degree to 90 degree, instead it's a Michaelis-Menten saturation curve, and after 30 degrees, the lateral raise would soon be very heavy. It's ok 50% or 70%, I believe Doug's point is lateral raise is a late phase loading, and as a result, the exercise initially feels "too light" in the early part of its range of motion, but then it feels "too heavy" at the conclusion of its range motion.
@@benpptung074 Impressive linking me to the exact part of the clip! I'm a Luddite haha. His wording is incorrect, technically. He literally mentions those percentages.."of this ten pound weight". I'm pretty sure what he means is "percentages of the RESISTANCE offered by the ten pound weight", which is a very different thing. Torque (moment arm x force) at the shoulder is zero at the bottom, maximum at the top (perpendicular), and yes I'm pretty sure it's 50% at 45 degrees....because the moment arm is half as long as at 90 degrees (surely that part is right?).
I just drew a 4cm square and a diagonal line across it corner to corner, which is about 5.5cm. So for X amount of travel at 45 degrees, yes you definitely achieve only 71% in the vertical (opposing gravity) direction. This is one big reason why you need so much load on a 45 degree leg press.
I *mainly* use cables, where the load/mass is always travelling vertically in the stack. For free weights, inertia is certainly a massive factor ( I wish punters understood this and in most cases slowed things down!).
I'm struggling to figure out where the Curve you mention fits in here. It might do, but I *think* it's a misapplication? I am sure that the resistance to the joint comes down to moment arm.
Basically the *force angle* provides maximum efficiency when the upper arm is horizontal (gravity meets the lever at 90 degrees), but is 50% efficient when the lever is at 45 degrees.
Sheesh lol my brain is trying to figure out the relevance of the curvilinear motion involved in most exercises (well, ell single joint ones).
So you are saying that the 10lb weight only provides 7.1lb of force at 45 degrees? If that's true, and if we can agree that the moment arm at 45 degrees is half of at 90, then the torque (resistance) at 45 degrees would be even LESS than half vs 90 degrees?!
Fundamentally disagree with Doug here. The dip is the single most anabolic upper body exercise when done properly it activates a ton of triceps, shoulders, chest and stabilizer muscles. I respect Mr. Brignole and he has a good grasp on biomechanics, but the dip is just such a powerful exercise that one would be doing himself/herself a disservice not to use it.
Ugh I hate cutesie couples smoochin at the gym
I’ll take someone who can do dips and control their own body through space as opposed to a push down
Knees over toes guy would disagree
Im sure this guy knows his shit, but dips are the best pressing accessory in my book
false
@@jimsdigitalmarketing the absolute best
@@dustinwhite6503 whats your argument for that based on biomechanics?
@@Jorge.A.12 he's still scrambling for an answer. "Pressing" as a category tells you little - could be mainly pecs, delts, even triceps, and even the biceps can be used to complete a press.
Hahahahah 🤣 this is the single dumbest comment Ive seen on the internet today hahaha 🤣😂
I disagree. The dip is a great exercise for many.
Well no. From a hypertrophy standpoint it certainly is not, and that's not even up for debate that's physics and biomechanics. If you want to do it, sure go ahead, if you want to maximise your time and be efficient with working the muscle it certainly is not.
This guy is clueless.
you don't understand physics?