Hey everyone! So off the back of this video we had a great chat with some people at Untappd - they really appreciated all your thoughts in the comments (so keep them coming) and have lots in the pipeline that will look to solve some of the issues. We're staying in touch with them too!x
As musician I did a lot of competitions (dj battles). In that sector it is kind the same problem cause it's rating a piece of art/music and it's very relative, it's just taste. The best would be a checkbox you have been blind tasting, following list of parameters, etc.. before judging. Also I worked for a software company and there I learned that there are 1000s of wish-lists for making new options in a an application, there's a lot of things happening before developers are finally changing one option. The best, for doing that is making video's like this, and motivate your followers on the same point of view so Untappd is listening.
Ach I thought about that too - the issue is so many eople use it as a discovery tool, looking for well rated beers and breweries. So if you hid it, that key feature would disappear. So while the ratings would improve, the usefulness of the app might drop!
In options you can turn on "Beer ratings in search", which will hide the rating on searches and in the bar's menu. You'll only see the rating once you open the beer.
@@mrkesu You'll still see the public rating before checking it in / rating it yourself though. But this is helpful, I'll def use this setting. Thanks!
I can’t even begin to express how spot on this video is and how you just described most of what I think about Untappd and many of its users (you did it in a nicer way, though). And that doesn’t mean I don’t like Untappd, I use it, I check in beers regularly, I score a bunch of them, I toast people’s check ins, I comment and receive comments, etc. But the app is damn problematic and most of its issues in my opinion were very well addressed here. Thanks for this. Cheers Jonny! (PS: just sent you a friend request on Untappd, hehe)
We’re listening! Thanks for taking the time to provide such valuable feedback on the service, platform, and the app itself. You touched on things we’ve discussed internally for years and know we can continue improving Untappd for the community and breweries in the future. Hopefully the latest update to the Untappd app has fixed that toast button issue! We rewrote the app and released an update in late August. Hopefully your scrolling experience has dramatically improved :)
Completely agree with you. I recently had a little discussion with a brewery because I didn't drink their beer fresh enough. Although the best before date was April 2022. I tried to tell the brewer that I bought the beer a week before I drank it, and it didn't live up to my expectations because the flavors didn't match the style. When I described the flavors I was told: "Yes, you should also drink this beer fresh." Then I replied: "Then you have to adjust the Beat Before date because there are still 30 cans in the store." "We have no further influence on that," replied the brewery. So then I said they should start working with bottling dates or canning dates so that the consumer knows when something is fresh or not. But I think if they start working with bottling dates, they might be afraid that something less fresh won't be sold as easily anymore.
Totally agree on your rating by style part. Comparing a Czech Pilsner to an Imperial Pastry stout in one rating system is bonkers. I like to keep in mind that these are personal opinions of people that have different tastes than my own, and different experiences than my own. I, for example, really like Belgian Tripels. A 3.75 Tripel might be a 'mediocre' tripel in my book, but a 3.75 Czech Pilsner would be outstanding. A rating is also very dependent on how much effort a rater had to do to obtain the beer, or how much the rater had to pay for it. It is hard to come to terms with the fact that your €20-€30 5 hour drive beer doesn't fulfill your expectations. A much needed video! Let's hope Untappd fixes this.
Great point about the effort behind obtaining the beer but it is also about the effort of the brewery. Like when something is barrel-aged it automatically gets some points. Kinda like people tend to give a cellared beer a higher score even if it not always better.
I partially disagree. Consider Rotten Tomatoes, which rates all movies on a single scale, comparing cartoons with drama with sci-fi with comedy with thriller. So, users of Untappd can continue to do the same... And you have already identified the solution: grade on a curve. Seek the best rated beer of a given style. As you say, 3.75 is much better for a pilsner than for an tripel.
@@nopenopenein8243 I'm harder on barrel aged beers. If it's been barrel aged, and it isn't excellent, nah. Compare Clown Shoes Origin Story to Martin House Vanilla Skies. The former was amazing, the latter was an overly sweet mess.
Glad these issues were addressed! I was always very surprised whenever I would check in a more 'traditional' style (a dunkel, helles etc.) and find these great beers were always rated really low in comparison to some super trendy IPA. The idea of having a separate scoring for style a great idea. Too many great beers are being shunned.
I agree Irish Red Ale’s,Irish Stouts aren’t pushing past 3.7 it seems especially Irish brewed beers. Irish Beers and Breweries are stuck being in the 3’s.
Great video. I've had brewers comment on my check-ins where a beer for instance was oxidised and offer a replacement. Not sure if there are potentially better ways for them to interact with me, but through the comments was adequate for me.
Yes lord! I'm glad you picked up on the point of check-ins that don't have explanations. I don't know how easy it is to implement, but a option to filter check-ins which only have written reviews would be massively helpful.
absolutely agree with this! I see myself scrolling down the check-ins of beers several times to find some written reviews to them to get some useful information wether I‘d like to check a particular brew out or not.
I use Untappd quite differently than many people: (1) I only check in a beer once - if I have a beer again and feel differently about it, I simply adjust my rating and add a comment with the reason and the date I tried it again. This has meant moves in both directions actually, where breweries have either improved recipes/methods or screwed something up. (2) I rate beers by style anyway, but I agree that they need to have a "rating by style" score as well as an overall rating. (3) I recognise that a lot of beers I try aren't in the best condition (living in Australia makes that quite common), either by storage, travel, or simply by time. I try to rate them both accurately and recognising that. (4) I know quite a decent number of my Untappd people personally, and have actually made a number of friends through it. (5) I always try to leave a comment with every check-in, although that gets difficult later in a big session. 😂 Oh yeah, sent you through a friend request too. 🍻
As a brewer, salute!! That's the exact thing I am doing every day. Every morning I check the new ratings of our beers and many times I come across some awfully low ratings with no reason at all. That's frustrating because I don't know if it's my fault, the pub's fault or maybe th rater's just mean or anything...
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I believe from what I read that Tree house’s quality fell off after they moved facilities. Not uncommon to happen ahem Bass, Newcastle Brown. And according to some Smithwick’s after 2013.
Massively important points Jonny - Agree entirely. Obviously, hopefully the folks at Untappd follow you and have the capacity/desire to progress and improve
YES! Precisely this! What an immaculate video describing everything that is an issue with an otherwise great app. I have been preaching most of this to my friends for some time now and what a coincidence I stumble upon this video. Stay awesome!
Very valid points when scoring. I'm contemplating dropping the scores whatsoever and just go by the comments, but I guess that's gonna be a hassel. But I freaking love Untappd when travelling. Made my beer day several times in both Hamburg and Berlin. Cheers!
Cant even say how many times I’ve seen friends give a beer 3/5 just because they don’t like the style. That, combined with the herd hysteria, unfortunately plagues what can be, and often is, an amazing platform.
People rate for different reasons though. Some people judge a beer in its style and how it's brewed. Others just rate it whether they like it or not. Both are valid. My ratings are a bit of both. Certainly for a large part whether I like the beer, regardless of style. Of course you have your expectation within the style. It's ludicrous to give a lager a low rating because it's not thick and chocolate-y like a stout.
@@BobWitlox True that. I think that if you generally don't like the style it is a bit unfair to rate more beers from it tho. Like I don't like sours much but being a craft fan and being around people who drink sours i'd still taste a bunch of them. I stopped rating them because I really don't feel like I understand the style and it doesn't appeal to me, like I can't adjust my expectations properly. Kinda like the people who drink lagers and expect some multy-layered sipping experience.
Brilliant video as always from CBC, highlighting not only the shortfalls of Untappd but also how to improve it; the mark of a genuine disruptor and stakeholder. Untapped, take note.
Great video Jonny - a very honest look at the pros and cons of what is one of my favourite apps! I've always said that as long as you understand the drawbacks of Untappd then you can use it effectively for your own benefit (this goes for all stakeholders including breweries). That is how I go about it and this video has definitely opened my eyes to some aspects I had not considered before! Cheers!
Some people might say that untappd ratings aren't that impactful but they are. There are numerous trade sites that list the untappd rating if it's like 3.5 or higher and that 100% can influence people in the industry with what they might buy to put on - I myself have been guilty of this in the past (sadly). Great vid.
It is clear that you have put a lot of thought in to this. It is definitely something to think about. We really need to put more thought into our reviews of different beers.
I am probably one of those users that just rates without really thinking. I started using it, because there are soooooo many beers and I had no idea what I liked of didn't like, so I started logging them to remember myself if I liked it. Now a year later and following your channel I have a better understanding of beer but still nowhere near the knowledge I should have to rate properly. That's why I would love love love to do a course on producing beer, tasting beer and so on. But its not available (here in The Netherlands at least). I did such a course on wine (because of the same reason haha) and my perception has totally changed! Still have to learn a lot to rate properly of course, but it's the same with beer. I use Untappd to rate for myself, not really for other people or breweries, but after this video I'll at least write an explanation why is was so good or bad :) (yes I rated a beer 5 starts one time because I had cycled 111km and it tasted amazing of course haha, but I did wrote it with the rating) And categorizing to style would be best!
I fixed most issues you mentioned by the fact I don't give a flying flamingo about the community votes (and the community features overall). I rate beers for myself, so next time I have an opportunity, I remember if I liked it or not and if it's worth getting again. Untapped is a tool I use for myself, very selfish, I know.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel yes, and I'd love to have the option of not sending my ratings to the wider pot of ratings... But the app is mostly used by arficionados like me (in my opinion) and they make the app work for them primarily. Rating like beer professionals is a big ask ... But I'd be more than happy to remove my ratings from the community and not pollute the results of I was given the opportunity.
I just don’t know why people would leave a negative rating, just throw it away and move on with your life. I use Untappd purely as a way of remembering what I’ve had and if I particularly enjoyed it. I think peoples tastes really change as well as somethings I’ve scored 5’s I may not score as highly now but I’m not petty enough to go back and change as I really enjoyed it at that moment in time (or state!) Great vid as always
Yes. I like Sour Beers but often you see people rate them like 1/5. And when you go to their profile you see, that they only enjoy dark beers. So why do they rate it?
Some fascinating psychology at work in your first point. They've shown that people can actually be coerced into picking obviously wrong answers on the strength of having several other people confidently asserting the wrong answer is correct. If my memory is correct it was something as simple as which line was shortest
Yep, you hit on one of my pet peeves about Untappd. Some world class lagers are underrated. Ayinger Bavarian Pils a 3.5? Really? I think your suggestion they add a rating by style feature is spot on. There are some DIPA's that are rated 4.5 or better that I personally find undrinkable, but I understand why some people love the bold, highly bitter presentation. Great comments!
Great video. I don't add anything for low scores when I should. I also constantly catch myself basing my own opinion off expectations formed by seeing the score in untappd first.
Can only agree. At the beginning Untappd was a very exciting place, but now after checking in some 100+ beers it starts to become quite boring because of lack of active interaction among users. And yeah, it is quite difficult to find really good lagers, as majority of them have average ratings after being compared to IPAs, Stouts etc.
I love this, working at a brewery for the past year in NH, just from untapped alone i could tell that craft beer culture is just a cult honestly. A lot of people who love only 1 or 2 breweries absolutely shit on other breweries and their beers. Just terrible. Bravo man
Great video as always. I think its interesting as well that they allow breweries to "toast" your check ins. Some breweries will only toast a beer if the rating is 4 or more which surely encourages some users to rate higher altering the overall rating to get a "toast" or "like" from a brewery.
Spot on! I have 141 beers unrated. I stopped rating as I realised I was only really rating beers from 3-4.5 (basically out of 7), so I started rating beers on their style. I soon realised a few things, I was still only rating beers around the same bracket and putting too much time into a number. So I re-evaluated why I check beers in and came to the conclusion that I do so as a record to help future me. So a few words to describe each beer is far more useful than arbitrary score. I write down what it taste like to me. So when I search a certain beer I can see if I've tried it and what it taste like. The worst people write this "I don't like *style* and this proves it!" 1 star. - utter nobheads. It's interesting that you say it isn't very social as on the flip-side I know a group of people who deleted it as they realised it was dominating their pub time together.
You're describing a use of Untappd in a way that I don't intend to use it. When I rate something on Untappd it's for my own personal reflection and use, To look back on a specific beer or brewery and see if I've had something of theirs before, and see what I thought of it. Or to look up something that I really enjoyed but can't recall the name or brewery but know exactly when I had that beer so I can find it again.
Absolutely this is how it should be used, our point is not for people to change how they review (other than to hold back on clearly flawed beer) but for the algorithm to address the biases that are natural in people. Then it means people can use it as a personal log, while the overall data helps discovery.
Some good points addressed here so thanks for that. Untappd is an invaluable tool and I do try to rate beers according to style and/or flavour experience, and will ALWAYS leave a reason for the rating, along with info about the location (and - hopefully - a dash of humour). There are times when I may get it wrong, but then honesty comes at a price. More informed ratings come with experience. Maybe. Must admit, not being the adventurous type, I tend to stay within striking distance of home and so view Friend rather than Global check-ins since they provide good knowledge of beers available locally. What has impressed me most of late is the introduction of verified venues. It makes it easy to check which beers/ciders/whatever are currently on tap or on deck - something that is useful especially if you are heading into unfamiliar territory.
A great video, will definitely consider rating by style more from now on. FYI you can already tag people you are friends with using @ in check ins and comments. My favourite feature has been the find beers nearby function from lists. Unfortunately they seem to have broken that in the most recent untappd update...
My calibration: 5 = I’d make a special trip to get it again, 4 = I’d order/buy another if on a menu or shelf, 3 = solid for style (meets expectations in corporate America performance review context), 2 = recipe flaw/quirk in my opinion, 1 = process flaw, micro. contamination, etc. We’re not all professional tasters. I consider it a preference data source for a brewery. That said, I quit rating beers after the 3 or so years. I recognized people were generally way higher. And they introduced the partial points at some time too. I still use it, but more so for the “drink socially” idea. I rarely check in while drinking together with others. I tend to check in, toast, etc, whatever friends are having a beer at home alone and seeing who else is enjoying something too.
Yep this is very close to what I do. I would also add that if I've bought a beer that I really don't like but I know that's my opinion rather than any kind of concrete quality judgement, I'm not giving it a star rating. Most hazy things fall into this category for me, I can't stand them but I realise that they're very popular.
I've been drinking beer for 35 years and have never used untappd. It's taken me this long to realise that I don't drink beer because I like beer, but I like beer because I like people.
Great points! For places that are around me, I will not rate them until I have been multiple times to check consistency. Easy to have an off pallet day and weather can steer your thoughts and perceptions.
Johnny, I can relate to your frustration with untappd but still want to say that breweries flat out do not get overall good ratings by putting out mediocre beer. Every brewery has bad batches and some people inflate the ratings, but it all balances out in the end. If the general masses can't get behind a brewer's product, then they might need to rethink their approach no matter how true to style it is. I worked as a brewer for a microbrewery that specialized in traditional English style ales... in America. They are out of business now. I have been a longterm viewer and love your videos. Thanks for taking the time to address this subject. Cheers!
I'd never want to imply they did! Just that a lot of very, very good breweries get mediocre ratings. Some people in the comments suggesting Untappd is "negative" but I think it's the opposite - it's TOO positive!
Speaking truth, I've been always sour towards Untappd. Never seen anyone really pushing forward solutions. I've proposed via Twitter to the CEO to simply add a function that would open a prompt with a brewery automatically when a beer is rated under 3, so the brewer can get actual feedback with their brews.
Very good video with solid points. I have been using untappd for a long time and it's definitely got it's quirks but imo it's biggest flaw is also it's greatest strength. Untappd is focused more on the casual beer drinker/rater that won't use something like ratebeer. I've pretty much stopped really caring what I see for untappd ratings, I'll take a look for kind of a general baseline and that's it. I live in Florida and if you look at the untappd vs ratebeer ratings it's like only 5 people in all of Florida actually bother with ratebeer. Untappd has the much friendlier approach with breweries being able to display recent check-ins and whatnot. I don't dislike untapped but it's essentially the Amazon rating of beers.
Really feel for Jonnies phone as it now explodes due to the number of Untappd friend requests. A great video that picks up on so many of the annoying things about Untappd.
I know I’m late to the party of commenting on this topic - but I nearly agree on everything you pointed in this video. I started using Untappd together with my best friend and we use it in the same way so he’s probably the only person I can compare my ratings to. For me Untappd is my own beer journal. I check-in every beer I drink. I always review it and it’s often pretty extensive. And I also keep my cellar sorted on lists in my profile. So it‘s a beloving and vital tool for me nowadays. I do rate by style of course and would absolutely support an implementation similar to what ratebeer does. I‘d also like the option to filter reviews under a beer by review as I find check-ins without any comment on the beer quite useless. And finally I would find it really helpful if canning/bottling dates and the price that you paid for a beer could be added to the detailed check-in view as it would really help people to understand why it is rated as it is. Both are already added in the lists menu but the information gets deleted when you check in a beer from your list.
Great video! I'd like to add something: In line with your comment of people's knowledge and experience, where you're from and which beer you have access (I am from Brazil, with hundreds of craft beer brands) is hard to compare your local breweries with some top rated beers around the World which I may never prove and how scale from 0 to 5 what I am driking. Also, the very same beer can give you subjective different feels depending on what's going on, even if you can understand this is not always easy to put into scores: one day you're happy, relaxed and excited and the beer tastes great and another day you might be tired, had a bad night, are stressed or all that at once and the beer will not "taste" the same Cheers!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel actually I think it is possible although takes a long time… but I only used to update score from beers I had before after having some more, but after some hundreds it is impossible to go back and re do it all more fairly :)
The 75 seconds between 2:15 and 3:30 are demolishing. A big problem is that some pubs (at least in Barcelona) are only buying beers with an Untappd score above 4 points. Breweries also want to be on the top 10 of Spanish top breweries. Result? Breweries are only brewing IPAs and high alcohol beers. You pointed to the "tablebeeritis" of the untappd hype hunters, and you are goddamn right.
These days I try to pay attention to the whole experience of drinking a beer, not just aroma/flavour/mouthfeel (etc) but in a more abstract sense how the beer makes me feel, during and after. I find this frame of mind makes me appreciate more subtle qualities, such as how natural a beer feels. Some of the most amazing flavour experiences I’ve had have been modern craft IPAs, but they often leave me feeling pretty bad, pair very poorly with food, and cost more than they’re worth to me. It gives me an appreciation of the often more subtle and natural qualities of old-world beers. I love and admire the US craft-brewing culture for all of its innovation, but tend to have more respect these days for the brewers who keep their beers in balance, rather than participating in an arms-race to create the most intense or unusual experiences.
I think my biggest problem with untappd would be the people. I definitely agree with your points and to add to it is that some people just don't like certain beers yet still rate them. It makes no sense to me. Like if someone goes to a sour brewery and tries a sour, then give it a 2 star and say it's bad but also say "but I don't really don't like sours" that makes me wonder why the hell they rated it at all. I use untappd a few ways, though, and some may be contradicting. I kind of set a baseline of if I drink a beer and I would buy another one, then it gets at least a 3.5. That's more to help me to know if I rated something and forgot about it but check back on the beer later, I know that I would get it again if I rated it at least a 3.5. Then with that, I don't rate a beer, like you said, if it's obviously gone bad in a way that's out of the brewery's control. Then the next rating for me would be how much I like the beer to the style so I sort of do my own "style" rating like you mentioned rate beer has. So if I try an amazing lager, I don't compare it to the best sours I've had, I compare it to the other lagers I've had and rate it accordingly. However, if I try a beer and it tastes more like a different style than what's advertised, then I'd rate it on how much I like it in general but make that note that it doesn't taste like the advertised style. But all this I do is too much work for most people, which is why people suck and can easily ruins a beer or brewery's rating through their own laziness.
I like to try a lot of different styles. If I find one I don't like (such as sours as you mentioned) I still try to be fair on the quality and effort of the brew and not necessarily my taste. Bud Lite still gets half a star though only because I can't rate it zero.
You also need to look at all ratings at the brewery. Start with the highest rated and look who is rating it, 9/10 it's going to be someone with an interest in the brewery, if you see the same person giving 5's on all the beer. I worked at brewery and we we're told to rate all the beers five so it would come up on untapped higher to get people to come to the brewery. NO brewery makes all 5 star rated beers and very very little make one 5 star. also like you said look at the lowest rating and read the comments. Very few breweries make 1 star beers.
Really good video and overview of the untappd universe, I have so many random ‘friends’ on the app that have added me over time and lambast beers with strange reviews and poor ratings because it was a style they don’t like or had an adjunct in that they hate the flavour of. I began to review by style pretty early and if I come across a particular style I’m not too familiar with then I tend to just log the beer as unrated whilst I discover the style further through taste and trial. A few people have thought it was strange that I would give Saison Dupont or Augustiner Lagerbier Hell a 5 but they really are outstanding examples of the beer style in my opinion, I would never compare them to a Triple New England or an Imperial Pastry Stout, it would be ridiculous to do so
I really enjoyed this video Jonny. I went into it scared and frightened you were going to tell me off 🤣 But I came away from the video agreeing with everything you said. Rating by style is A MUST! Averages are great in terms high-level insight, but it's important to understand the context and what makes up the average. Great video!
All great points and could have not been said better. I been using Untappd for about six year now and I am an untappd supporter. I try my danmed best to provide unbiased objective reviews but I am sure I am guilty as well time to time, especially once you get to that third DIPA :) Great video/post. Cheers.
Sounds like you should create a new platform! I’ve never used a beer rating app, used to use Beer in the Evening to find a pub back in the day but now I’ll pop into a pub if I see something interesting on tap or they have barrels outside from a decent brewery.
A greater social component would be cool. I love doing verticals and have a nice cellar, however none of my irl friends are into stouts. It would be to meet some people & perhaps even do a bottle share.
Thank god somebody is finally talking about this! As somebody who works in brewing Untappd drives me absolutely mad! It's a great indicator of how popular something is but a terrible indicator of how good something is. I personally feel likes it's massively dummed down the whole craft beer industry and just encourages people to chase hype and not think about what they're drinking. Your point about giving an explanation for your rating is a great one but Untappd hardly gives you enough characters to write a decent summary of your experience and certainly doesn't reward or incentivise the user in any way for doing so.
I gave up Untappd 7 or 8 years ago, as I was spending too much money on shite beer, chasing badges and going on awful ratings. It was a liberating experience. This video doesn't make me regret the decision at all!
I love Untappd, and I largely give it credit for fueling my love and interest for beer. When I started using it in 2013 I knew I loved lager beers, but not much else. And it has truly opened my eyes to the world of beer. So you can say that I may be biased in my relations to Untappd ;) I'd like to adress a few of your points: Firstly you comment on the Bias of the data. This is true for all ratings, not done under the same conditions such as blind testing etc. The beer you drink with friends on a night out with good conversations will most likely be rated higher than the beer you grabbed on your way home, and had for dinner on a tuesday evening. This is not neccesarily a problem with Untappd. This is the problem with rating outside controlled environments in general. And given that the majority of the 9mill users are not in fact beer judges, but mainly enthusiasts who love beer, these results will no doubt be biased. You also touch in on the aspects of confirmation bias, and that goes for basically anything we buy or spend time on. Technically you could sell a beer at 7£ a bottle, and the same beer at 22£ a bottle, and most likely the ones that paid 22£ would be happier about it. Because we're programmed to think that if we spend much (money or time or effort) on something it must be good. Psychology is weird. Rating by style sould definitively be incorporated! The frailty of beer. This is very true. It is also very hard to remedy within the app. I think the only way to actually adress the problem is education. Education of personell at bars on how to store and serve correctly, education of drinkers on what to expect and what flaws taste like. You're doing a great job there. The social aspect of untappd is... meh. OK, I guess. There are a lot of improvements that can be made, especially regarding feedback to the brewers. However you can tag people in the comments, if they are in your friends list by using the @. Largely I agree with you, so I don't know why I wrote this long post where it seems I dissagree a lot. -Cheers, and keep up the good work.
Haha thanks for the comment adn great to hear that Untappd has been a big part of your discovery! A lot of people forget that it is the way in for so many people. Clearly we agree on all points - I just think the app could do a better job of managing these biases.
Generally I find the ratings system useless, as everything always seems to be around a 3.7 rating. I do love the app for taplists & finding beers in bottle shops though.
That's really interesting perspective. I might as some people would say use Untappd incorrectly. First and foremost, nope I never use it to find new beers/breweries... I don't do much of the "social" interaction either. What do I use it for then? Well, it is a database, a big one, I use it to rate the beers I try. So that if I come across one in a different place (say a restaurant or a bar), I can check if I had that one before and based on what I rated it, either go for it or pass. So many times I went to try a "new beer" only to realize I had that one already when going on Untappd. Since, given the choice, I'd rather try something new than get a beer I had before, it is really useful to check out. And, yes, I try to put some comment so that when I read it later I can get why I rate it that way. But, yes, I really use it as my own personal database of beers I tried. It's a little easier now that I live in Nevada, but seriously when I lived in Portlant, OR before with so many beers/breweries around, Untappd was really for me the only way to keep track of what I had tested. Anyway, to each is own but that's the way I use it and it suits me well (and yes the interface could be improved)
Before I even watch your video, I wanted to thank you for it. It’s stupid to read “reviews” where the writer’s attitude is “I only like hazy IPAs, so I’m giving this Guinness I’m having fresh, in Dublin, a 2 out of 5.” Untappd is the Yelp of beer. Everybody who doesn’t know a damn thing about the subject gets to feel like an expert for a minute. Now, on to the video.
Great video! That sums up pretty much what I think about Untappd. I always get frustrated with how much the so-called "hype breweries" and "hype styles" get rave reviews even when they actually put out below-average products, while small guys are left behind. I've commented here before but one experience that will always stick in my mind is some coffee adjunct beers that I had which are filled with low-quality coffee flavoring and somehow get 4+ points. If you watch James Hoffman's videos you'll know what type of flavoring I'm talking about. It's mind-boggling how the rating system fails to address the actual beer quality. Sometimes even beers that have clearly gone wrong get high reviews. Also, the rating scores are a problem almost everywhere. Nobody ever uses the full scale and always sticks up to higher numbers, only lowering when they really don't like it. You see it in movies and games all the time. Anyways, now I think of it as a diary to see how my beer experience evolves, the social aspect is just a plus and I'd love to see them develop it a bit more.
Great video. I've taken a bit of time to understand Untapped. I've started not rating bad experiences and try to always put a comment. Love the brewers that clearly check their account regularly.. looking at you Overtone 🍻😎. Let's try and be constructive and support the industry we love. Love and Beer 🍻🍺
I’m an untappd user guilty of a lot of these things I wasn’t aware of until this video, I use the app as a personal tracker to see what beers are my favourite while I experiment, therefore I had never really considered the effect on the brewer seeing a review of 2/5 because for me I see it as a 2 in my personal taste but can appreciate somebody giving it a more educated 5/5. Perhaps having a private rating function would help if there were other people who use the app like me and my friends do, I guess that’s not very ‘Drink Socially’…
Yeah, I'd like a private rating function. I want to use untappd for personal tasting notes. I generally know which styles I don't like but sometimes I'll get something because it looks good "on paper" or on the shelf. Then I taste it, let's say I don't like it. I want to give it a low rating, so I have a reminder in the future not to get swayed again by the marketing, but I feel bad giving it a bad rating, because maybe it's actually a good beer for the style.
You can actually tag people in the comments. You can only tag your "friends" though. :) English is not my first language so I'm not big on commenting on beers I check in, and that's something I try to be better at. I usually try to make some jokes, or write something about the whole experience I'm having while drinking the beer. The first beer in the pub after lockdown probably had more text about how nice it was drinking a beer in the pub again, than about the actuall beer. But I think that's something the "taste tags" they've introduced maybe have done better for me. It's easier to just "tag" taste notes. I've been trying to evolve as a user and I've been trying more and more to rate it by style. The last year I've really been in to english/baltic porters and german lagers anyway, and those usually get the scoring problem you mention in the video when I check them out in the app. I've seen some users that compare and rate a english porter to what they expect from an imperial stout, even though they are different styles of beer. Another thing I still struggle to use, is the full scale in Untappd. It's probably a positive for the breweries as I tend to skew towards the higher numbers of the scale. And when you support the app and get an even more fragmentet scale, I really would have problems with it. I'm not a connoisseur or a sommelier so I would not know the difference between a 3,5 or a 3,6 or a 3,7 beer. I find it hard enough to difference between 3,5 or 3,75 sometimes ;). But mostly I use Untappd to a) a source of information, in example to look what's on the menu b) keep track of what I've been tasting c) get notice when some of my closest friends are enjoying a beer or my local pub puts on something new, and d) make funny comments on some check in made by a friend. Sometimes, when I'm going to a beer store that's verified, I'll get my girlfriend (if she's not with me on the trip tot the store) to make a wishlist on Untappd for some beers from a bottle store that's verified so I know what to bring home :) Keep on untapping and untapp responsibly :D
I recently had a little discussion with a brewery because I didn't drink their beer fresh enough, according to them. Although the best before date was April 2022. I tried to tell the brewer that I bought the beer a week before I drank it, and it didn't live up to my expectations because the flavors didn't match the style. When I described the flavors I was told: "Yes, you should drink this beer fresh." Then I replied: "Then you have to adjust the Best Before date because there are still 30 cans in the store." "We have no further influence on that," replied the brewery. So then I said they should start working with bottling dates or canning dates so that the consumer knows when something is fresh or not. But I think if they start working with bottling dates, they might be afraid that something less fresh won't be sold as easily anymore.
Yes this is a well known phenomenon. Brewers have to put longer dates than they'd want because otherwise shops and bars wouldn't buy the beer, it's too big a risk. But breweries need to accept drinkers will therefore have beers less fresh - and rather than blaming the drinker, breweries need to brew more shelf stable beer!
Sometimes I forget to check in on the night, would be nice to be able to choose a date within say the last 5 days. Would also like to see a way to add a proper historical check in that has no date attached so that I can add it to my diary without looking like I've drank 30 beers by 11am, when I was just adding things I've drank in the past. These should maybe not count to ratings and badges etc. if there's a worry. Also love the idea of breweries putting on maybe a most recently brewed or can date so that when looking on bottle shop websites I know if a can/bottle is going to be young or old. It could be such a great tool if breweries could engage more (especially reply to honest bad comments like the Treehouse example in the video). New releases feed for my followed breweries.
Yeeeeessssss......... Was just having this argument with a mate the other week. (As we tried to enjoy some US imports that weren't blowing us away) My point was & is; American Beers are rated at least half a point, if not a whole point higher than they probably should be. I've been to the US multiple times and on the whole, the beers were easily on par with the stuff I drink here day to day. He argued, we were just experiencing a little hop fade, which I agreed to a certain extent with too. But I'm still sticking to my guns. As you were saying; ratings should definitely be adjusted for style. I too add my own US adjustment.
So true! Another thing that grinds my gears is people leaving a review of a beer they only had a sip of. It's impossible to give a week rounded rating based on a sip or two...
I tend to rate beers so I remember if I want to drink it again. I typically know the styles I enjoy and avoid the ones I don't. I do think you can tag friends in your check-in.
Tasting beer is such a objective and personal experience. I don't use any rating site and prefer to just stay curious and try all the beers as I get opportunity to. If I do find one that I really like I make a note of it, for myself only, so that I can go back and experience that beer again. Plus using an app while out enjoying beer, adds to the already anti-social behaviour of using a phone when amongst friends. Go out to be social rather then getting stuck on your socials.
I'm not sure I buy this anti-social behaviour thing. Would you say the same for people going to the pub and reading? Sure, don't use Untappd while chatting with friends, but equally there are many other things you shouldn't do!
Good video. I think the issue with Untapped and similar platforms like Vivino or Robert Parker, is that the giving of a score or rating has become the goal. The goal I feel should be the engagement with beer styles breweries, a database or means to go down a particular rabbit hole.
I always rate based on the style of the beer I compare the beer to every beer of that style, Because how can you compare different styles? you cant its not fair. I wish that Untappd had that! Also The hype train is real man, treehouse as great as they are over hyped to the point where no one can get anything anyway, i think thats why people rate so high because its a f**kin hassle to get them lol. Same with the Micro Brewery by me "Fidens" I'm sure youve seen some of their beers on Untappd. Amazing beer for sure but so hyped that the lines to get beer as nigh impossible lol. Also if its style i dont particularly enjoy i try to think of a solid rating because I know that there is a market out there, so i kinda look at reviews first and just go with the average plus like .25 or so
Agree with all of this. People also have their own rating scale. Some people think a perfect 5 beer doesn't exist while others rate every other beer they drink a 5.
My experience with Untappd - all beers are scored 3.something, and the written reviews have little bearing on what the beer actually tastes like haha. It's still nice to have something, but I always take it with a pinch of salt and hope that other people (including brewers) do too
I've been using Untappd for six or seven years and just this summer I stopped giving scores and only leaving notes. I'm much more interested in what people say about the beer than the number they attach to it. And when I go back to view my past check-ins, my notes and photos are what I enjoy most. I also see so much bad scoring that I just don't want to be a part of it. Although previously I was always pretty generous in my scoring, usually in the 4s, and would rate per style, so I had no qualms giving a fantastic lager 5 stars. But a lot of people just don't get that way of looking at a beer. I also feel bad for the brewers who work really hard to make a beer only to have all these users tear it down with unfair scoring. Appreciate the video and comments!
I was checking IPA dates on the singles shelf at a local supermarket. On a hot shelf, they had an Oskar Blues Can O' Bliss IPA that was canned in March of this year (making it at least six months old at this point). Sucks to see, but it happens all the time.
I agree with matching the ratings with its style. I also think Untappd needs to filter you're profile down to style averages, then when a user checks in a beer, it shows the rating they gave the beer, but also lets other people see the average that user gives to that particular style. That way if Joe bloggs, who has an average of 2 out of 5 for "sours" and gives it a 2, you can see it on the check that this user just generally doesn't like sours and probably best not to take that particular check in too seriously, if you happen to like sours.
Hey everyone! So off the back of this video we had a great chat with some people at Untappd - they really appreciated all your thoughts in the comments (so keep them coming) and have lots in the pipeline that will look to solve some of the issues. We're staying in touch with them too!x
As musician I did a lot of competitions (dj battles). In that sector it is kind the same problem cause it's rating a piece of art/music and it's very relative, it's just taste.
The best would be a checkbox you have been blind tasting, following list of parameters, etc.. before judging.
Also I worked for a software company and there I learned that there are 1000s of wish-lists for making new options in a an application,
there's a lot of things happening before developers are finally changing one option.
The best, for doing that is making video's like this, and motivate your followers on the same point of view so Untappd is listening.
Would love if untappd hid the rating until you either gave your own rating, or choose to reveal what the public rating was. Loved the video. Cheers!
Ach I thought about that too - the issue is so many eople use it as a discovery tool, looking for well rated beers and breweries. So if you hid it, that key feature would disappear. So while the ratings would improve, the usefulness of the app might drop!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Then it should be optionial for blind tasters
In options you can turn on "Beer ratings in search", which will hide the rating on searches and in the bar's menu. You'll only see the rating once you open the beer.
@@mrkesu wow they implemented that fast😉 thanks man will turn it on right away!!
@@mrkesu You'll still see the public rating before checking it in / rating it yourself though. But this is helpful, I'll def use this setting. Thanks!
I can’t even begin to express how spot on this video is and how you just described most of what I think about Untappd and many of its users (you did it in a nicer way, though). And that doesn’t mean I don’t like Untappd, I use it, I check in beers regularly, I score a bunch of them, I toast people’s check ins, I comment and receive comments, etc.
But the app is damn problematic and most of its issues in my opinion were very well addressed here. Thanks for this.
Cheers Jonny!
(PS: just sent you a friend request on Untappd, hehe)
We’re listening! Thanks for taking the time to provide such valuable feedback on the service, platform, and the app itself. You touched on things we’ve discussed internally for years and know we can continue improving Untappd for the community and breweries in the future.
Hopefully the latest update to the Untappd app has fixed that toast button issue! We rewrote the app and released an update in late August. Hopefully your scrolling experience has dramatically improved :)
you nailed it. rate by style!!! I've said this for years. And cans/bottles need to have their fresh date so we know what we're getting
Damn this is a very good point. Get them canned on dates on untappd!
Completely agree with you. I recently had a little discussion with a brewery because I didn't drink their beer fresh enough. Although the best before date was April 2022. I tried to tell the brewer that I bought the beer a week before I drank it, and it didn't live up to my expectations because the flavors didn't match the style. When I described the flavors I was told: "Yes, you should also drink this beer fresh." Then I replied: "Then you have to adjust the Beat Before date because there are still 30 cans in the store." "We have no further influence on that," replied the brewery. So then I said they should start working with bottling dates or canning dates so that the consumer knows when something is fresh or not. But I think if they start working with bottling dates, they might be afraid that something less fresh won't be sold as easily anymore.
Totally agree on your rating by style part. Comparing a Czech Pilsner to an Imperial Pastry stout in one rating system is bonkers. I like to keep in mind that these are personal opinions of people that have different tastes than my own, and different experiences than my own. I, for example, really like Belgian Tripels. A 3.75 Tripel might be a 'mediocre' tripel in my book, but a 3.75 Czech Pilsner would be outstanding. A rating is also very dependent on how much effort a rater had to do to obtain the beer, or how much the rater had to pay for it. It is hard to come to terms with the fact that your €20-€30 5 hour drive beer doesn't fulfill your expectations.
A much needed video! Let's hope Untappd fixes this.
Great point about the effort behind obtaining the beer but it is also about the effort of the brewery. Like when something is barrel-aged it automatically gets some points. Kinda like people tend to give a cellared beer a higher score even if it not always better.
I partially disagree. Consider Rotten Tomatoes, which rates all movies on a single scale, comparing cartoons with drama with sci-fi with comedy with thriller. So, users of Untappd can continue to do the same... And you have already identified the solution: grade on a curve. Seek the best rated beer of a given style. As you say, 3.75 is much better for a pilsner than for an tripel.
@@nopenopenein8243 I'm harder on barrel aged beers. If it's been barrel aged, and it isn't excellent, nah. Compare Clown Shoes Origin Story to Martin House Vanilla Skies. The former was amazing, the latter was an overly sweet mess.
A red ale at 3.5 percent on average Sullivan’s Red Ale is actually a Sublime beer
Glad these issues were addressed! I was always very surprised whenever I would check in a more 'traditional' style (a dunkel, helles etc.) and find these great beers were always rated really low in comparison to some super trendy IPA. The idea of having a separate scoring for style a great idea. Too many great beers are being shunned.
I agree Irish Red Ale’s,Irish Stouts aren’t pushing past 3.7 it seems especially Irish brewed beers. Irish Beers and Breweries are stuck being in the 3’s.
Great video. I've had brewers comment on my check-ins where a beer for instance was oxidised and offer a replacement. Not sure if there are potentially better ways for them to interact with me, but through the comments was adequate for me.
Yes lord! I'm glad you picked up on the point of check-ins that don't have explanations. I don't know how easy it is to implement, but a option to filter check-ins which only have written reviews would be massively helpful.
absolutely agree with this! I see myself scrolling down the check-ins of beers several times to find some written reviews to them to get some useful information wether I‘d like to check a particular brew out or not.
Cracking insight to the people that aren't aware of what's going on and love yourself having the same opinion as myself.
I use Untappd quite differently than many people:
(1) I only check in a beer once - if I have a beer again and feel differently about it, I simply adjust my rating and add a comment with the reason and the date I tried it again. This has meant moves in both directions actually, where breweries have either improved recipes/methods or screwed something up.
(2) I rate beers by style anyway, but I agree that they need to have a "rating by style" score as well as an overall rating.
(3) I recognise that a lot of beers I try aren't in the best condition (living in Australia makes that quite common), either by storage, travel, or simply by time. I try to rate them both accurately and recognising that.
(4) I know quite a decent number of my Untappd people personally, and have actually made a number of friends through it.
(5) I always try to leave a comment with every check-in, although that gets difficult later in a big session. 😂
Oh yeah, sent you through a friend request too. 🍻
New HUGE Fan here!! Can not wait to dive deep into your past videos.
Cheers Duane, welcome to the channel!
As a brewer, salute!! That's the exact thing I am doing every day. Every morning I check the new ratings of our beers and many times I come across some awfully low ratings with no reason at all. That's frustrating because I don't know if it's my fault, the pub's fault or maybe th rater's just mean or anything...
Amen. The more I think about it the more I think it is vital a review becomes mandatory
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I believe from what I read that Tree house’s quality fell off after they moved facilities. Not uncommon to happen ahem Bass, Newcastle Brown. And according to some Smithwick’s after 2013.
Top video Johnny, really agree that Untappd should include a rating by style in their check-ins
Great video! I've been using Untapped for 10 years. It's great, but the changes you suggested would make it so much better and more useful.
Massively important points Jonny - Agree entirely. Obviously, hopefully the folks at Untappd follow you and have the capacity/desire to progress and improve
From all the breweries in the world thank you Jonny!
YES! Precisely this! What an immaculate video describing everything that is an issue with an otherwise great app. I have been preaching most of this to my friends for some time now and what a coincidence I stumble upon this video. Stay awesome!
Very valid points when scoring. I'm contemplating dropping the scores whatsoever and just go by the comments, but I guess that's gonna be a hassel.
But I freaking love Untappd when travelling. Made my beer day several times in both Hamburg and Berlin. Cheers!
Cant even say how many times I’ve seen friends give a beer 3/5 just because they don’t like the style. That, combined with the herd hysteria, unfortunately plagues what can be, and often is, an amazing platform.
People rate for different reasons though. Some people judge a beer in its style and how it's brewed. Others just rate it whether they like it or not. Both are valid. My ratings are a bit of both. Certainly for a large part whether I like the beer, regardless of style. Of course you have your expectation within the style. It's ludicrous to give a lager a low rating because it's not thick and chocolate-y like a stout.
@@BobWitlox True that. I think that if you generally don't like the style it is a bit unfair to rate more beers from it tho. Like I don't like sours much but being a craft fan and being around people who drink sours i'd still taste a bunch of them. I stopped rating them because I really don't feel like I understand the style and it doesn't appeal to me, like I can't adjust my expectations properly. Kinda like the people who drink lagers and expect some multy-layered sipping experience.
Brilliant video as always from CBC, highlighting not only the shortfalls of Untappd but also how to improve it; the mark of a genuine disruptor and stakeholder.
Untapped, take note.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video Jonny - a very honest look at the pros and cons of what is one of my favourite apps! I've always said that as long as you understand the drawbacks of Untappd then you can use it effectively for your own benefit (this goes for all stakeholders including breweries). That is how I go about it and this video has definitely opened my eyes to some aspects I had not considered before! Cheers!
Some people might say that untappd ratings aren't that impactful but they are. There are numerous trade sites that list the untappd rating if it's like 3.5 or higher and that 100% can influence people in the industry with what they might buy to put on - I myself have been guilty of this in the past (sadly). Great vid.
It is clear that you have put a lot of thought in to this. It is definitely something to think about. We really need to put more thought into our reviews of different beers.
I am probably one of those users that just rates without really thinking. I started using it, because there are soooooo many beers and I had no idea what I liked of didn't like, so I started logging them to remember myself if I liked it. Now a year later and following your channel I have a better understanding of beer but still nowhere near the knowledge I should have to rate properly. That's why I would love love love to do a course on producing beer, tasting beer and so on. But its not available (here in The Netherlands at least). I did such a course on wine (because of the same reason haha) and my perception has totally changed! Still have to learn a lot to rate properly of course, but it's the same with beer. I use Untappd to rate for myself, not really for other people or breweries, but after this video I'll at least write an explanation why is was so good or bad :) (yes I rated a beer 5 starts one time because I had cycled 111km and it tasted amazing of course haha, but I did wrote it with the rating) And categorizing to style would be best!
Great to hear that! Perhaps we should make a course. In the meantime try our book called Beer School: A Crash Course in Craft Beer
@@TheCraftBeerChannel it’s on my list!
I fixed most issues you mentioned by the fact I don't give a flying flamingo about the community votes (and the community features overall).
I rate beers for myself, so next time I have an opportunity, I remember if I liked it or not and if it's worth getting again.
Untapped is a tool I use for myself, very selfish, I know.
Haha, I think that's why this issue has started!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel yes, and I'd love to have the option of not sending my ratings to the wider pot of ratings...
But the app is mostly used by arficionados like me (in my opinion) and they make the app work for them primarily. Rating like beer professionals is a big ask ...
But I'd be more than happy to remove my ratings from the community and not pollute the results of I was given the opportunity.
I just don’t know why people would leave a negative rating, just throw it away and move on with your life. I use Untappd purely as a way of remembering what I’ve had and if I particularly enjoyed it.
I think peoples tastes really change as well as somethings I’ve scored 5’s I may not score as highly now but I’m not petty enough to go back and change as I really enjoyed it at that moment in time (or state!)
Great vid as always
The bit about styles is bang on. But I also think a big part of that is people who rate beer styles they don’t necessarily like.
Yes. I like Sour Beers but often you see people rate them like 1/5. And when you go to their profile you see, that they only enjoy dark beers. So why do they rate it?
Some fascinating psychology at work in your first point. They've shown that people can actually be coerced into picking obviously wrong answers on the strength of having several other people confidently asserting the wrong answer is correct. If my memory is correct it was something as simple as which line was shortest
Yep, you hit on one of my pet peeves about Untappd. Some world class lagers are underrated. Ayinger Bavarian Pils a 3.5? Really? I think your suggestion they add a rating by style feature is spot on. There are some DIPA's that are rated 4.5 or better that I personally find undrinkable, but I understand why some people love the bold, highly bitter presentation. Great comments!
This was really well done, thank you 👍🏼
Fantastic video, thanks for bringing attention to the bad practices a lot of people do on untappd.
Great video. I don't add anything for low scores when I should. I also constantly catch myself basing my own opinion off expectations formed by seeing the score in untappd first.
Can only agree. At the beginning Untappd was a very exciting place, but now after checking in some 100+ beers it starts to become quite boring because of lack of active interaction among users. And yeah, it is quite difficult to find really good lagers, as majority of them have average ratings after being compared to IPAs, Stouts etc.
I love this, working at a brewery for the past year in NH, just from untapped alone i could tell that craft beer culture is just a cult honestly. A lot of people who love only 1 or 2 breweries absolutely shit on other breweries and their beers. Just terrible. Bravo man
Great video as always. I think its interesting as well that they allow breweries to "toast" your check ins. Some breweries will only toast a beer if the rating is 4 or more which surely encourages some users to rate higher altering the overall rating to get a "toast" or "like" from a brewery.
Spot on! I have 141 beers unrated. I stopped rating as I realised I was only really rating beers from 3-4.5 (basically out of 7), so I started rating beers on their style. I soon realised a few things, I was still only rating beers around the same bracket and putting too much time into a number. So I re-evaluated why I check beers in and came to the conclusion that I do so as a record to help future me. So a few words to describe each beer is far more useful than arbitrary score. I write down what it taste like to me. So when I search a certain beer I can see if I've tried it and what it taste like.
The worst people write this "I don't like *style* and this proves it!" 1 star. - utter nobheads.
It's interesting that you say it isn't very social as on the flip-side I know a group of people who deleted it as they realised it was dominating their pub time together.
You're describing a use of Untappd in a way that I don't intend to use it. When I rate something on Untappd it's for my own personal reflection and use, To look back on a specific beer or brewery and see if I've had something of theirs before, and see what I thought of it. Or to look up something that I really enjoyed but can't recall the name or brewery but know exactly when I had that beer so I can find it again.
Absolutely this is how it should be used, our point is not for people to change how they review (other than to hold back on clearly flawed beer) but for the algorithm to address the biases that are natural in people. Then it means people can use it as a personal log, while the overall data helps discovery.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Ah right'o I'll re-watch I thought you were saying Check-in's my way were the wrong way to use the app.
Great video and so true. I hope Untappd is listening
Fantastic Effin ideas, man!!! I agree with you completely!!!
Some good points addressed here so thanks for that. Untappd is an invaluable tool and I do try to rate beers according to style and/or flavour experience, and will ALWAYS leave a reason for the rating, along with info about the location (and - hopefully - a dash of humour). There are times when I may get it wrong, but then honesty comes at a price. More informed ratings come with experience. Maybe.
Must admit, not being the adventurous type, I tend to stay within striking distance of home and so view Friend rather than Global check-ins since they provide good knowledge of beers available locally.
What has impressed me most of late is the introduction of verified venues. It makes it easy to check which beers/ciders/whatever are currently on tap or on deck - something that is useful especially if you are heading into unfamiliar territory.
A great video, will definitely consider rating by style more from now on. FYI you can already tag people you are friends with using @ in check ins and comments. My favourite feature has been the find beers nearby function from lists. Unfortunately they seem to have broken that in the most recent untappd update...
Thank you for this. Great insight.
This is an excellent video. I agree with all the points you make
My calibration: 5 = I’d make a special trip to get it again, 4 = I’d order/buy another if on a menu or shelf, 3 = solid for style (meets expectations in corporate America performance review context), 2 = recipe flaw/quirk in my opinion, 1 = process flaw, micro. contamination, etc. We’re not all professional tasters. I consider it a preference data source for a brewery.
That said, I quit rating beers after the 3 or so years. I recognized people were generally way higher. And they introduced the partial points at some time too. I still use it, but more so for the “drink socially” idea. I rarely check in while drinking together with others. I tend to check in, toast, etc, whatever friends are having a beer at home alone and seeing who else is enjoying something too.
Yep this is very close to what I do. I would also add that if I've bought a beer that I really don't like but I know that's my opinion rather than any kind of concrete quality judgement, I'm not giving it a star rating. Most hazy things fall into this category for me, I can't stand them but I realise that they're very popular.
I've been drinking beer for 35 years and have never used untappd. It's taken me this long to realise that I don't drink beer because I like beer, but I like beer because I like people.
Great video Jonny
Great points!
For places that are around me, I will not rate them until I have been multiple times to check consistency. Easy to have an off pallet day and weather can steer your thoughts and perceptions.
So, so true.
Johnny, I can relate to your frustration with untappd but still want to say that breweries flat out do not get overall good ratings by putting out mediocre beer. Every brewery has bad batches and some people inflate the ratings, but it all balances out in the end. If the general masses can't get behind a brewer's product, then they might need to rethink their approach no matter how true to style it is. I worked as a brewer for a microbrewery that specialized in traditional English style ales... in America. They are out of business now. I have been a longterm viewer and love your videos. Thanks for taking the time to address this subject. Cheers!
I'd never want to imply they did! Just that a lot of very, very good breweries get mediocre ratings. Some people in the comments suggesting Untappd is "negative" but I think it's the opposite - it's TOO positive!
Speaking truth, I've been always sour towards Untappd. Never seen anyone really pushing forward solutions. I've proposed via Twitter to the CEO to simply add a function that would open a prompt with a brewery automatically when a beer is rated under 3, so the brewer can get actual feedback with their brews.
Very good video with solid points. I have been using untappd for a long time and it's definitely got it's quirks but imo it's biggest flaw is also it's greatest strength. Untappd is focused more on the casual beer drinker/rater that won't use something like ratebeer.
I've pretty much stopped really caring what I see for untappd ratings, I'll take a look for kind of a general baseline and that's it. I live in Florida and if you look at the untappd vs ratebeer ratings it's like only 5 people in all of Florida actually bother with ratebeer. Untappd has the much friendlier approach with breweries being able to display recent check-ins and whatnot. I don't dislike untapped but it's essentially the Amazon rating of beers.
Great vid - really good points
Really feel for Jonnies phone as it now explodes due to the number of Untappd friend requests. A great video that picks up on so many of the annoying things about Untappd.
Haha I wondered why my phone got really hot around 4pm....
You have hit the bullseye, in this vlog Jonny.
Honestly a lot of people on Untappd need to watch this 🍻👏🏻 great video
Excellent video, needed to be said.
I know I’m late to the party of commenting on this topic - but I nearly agree on everything you pointed in this video.
I started using Untappd together with my best friend and we use it in the same way so he’s probably the only person I can compare my ratings to.
For me Untappd is my own beer journal. I check-in every beer I drink. I always review it and it’s often pretty extensive. And I also keep my cellar sorted on lists in my profile. So it‘s a beloving and vital tool for me nowadays.
I do rate by style of course and would absolutely support an implementation similar to what ratebeer does.
I‘d also like the option to filter reviews under a beer by review as I find check-ins without any comment on the beer quite useless.
And finally I would find it really helpful if canning/bottling dates and the price that you paid for a beer could be added to the detailed check-in view as it would really help people to understand why it is rated as it is. Both are already added in the lists menu but the information gets deleted when you check in a beer from your list.
Great video! I'd like to add something: In line with your comment of people's knowledge and experience, where you're from and which beer you have access (I am from Brazil, with hundreds of craft beer brands) is hard to compare your local breweries with some top rated beers around the World which I may never prove and how scale from 0 to 5 what I am driking. Also, the very same beer can give you subjective different feels depending on what's going on, even if you can understand this is not always easy to put into scores: one day you're happy, relaxed and excited and the beer tastes great and another day you might be tired, had a bad night, are stressed or all that at once and the beer will not "taste" the same
Cheers!
So... would it be helpful to be able to change your score do you think?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel actually I think it is possible although takes a long time… but I only used to update score from beers I had before after having some more, but after some hundreds it is impossible to go back and re do it all more fairly :)
The 75 seconds between 2:15 and 3:30 are demolishing.
A big problem is that some pubs (at least in Barcelona) are only buying beers with an Untappd score above 4 points. Breweries also want to be on the top 10 of Spanish top breweries. Result? Breweries are only brewing IPAs and high alcohol beers. You pointed to the "tablebeeritis" of the untappd hype hunters, and you are goddamn right.
These days I try to pay attention to the whole experience of drinking a beer, not just aroma/flavour/mouthfeel (etc) but in a more abstract sense how the beer makes me feel, during and after. I find this frame of mind makes me appreciate more subtle qualities, such as how natural a beer feels. Some of the most amazing flavour experiences I’ve had have been modern craft IPAs, but they often leave me feeling pretty bad, pair very poorly with food, and cost more than they’re worth to me. It gives me an appreciation of the often more subtle and natural qualities of old-world beers. I love and admire the US craft-brewing culture for all of its innovation, but tend to have more respect these days for the brewers who keep their beers in balance, rather than participating in an arms-race to create the most intense or unusual experiences.
A really measured piece! Very informative
I think my biggest problem with untappd would be the people. I definitely agree with your points and to add to it is that some people just don't like certain beers yet still rate them. It makes no sense to me. Like if someone goes to a sour brewery and tries a sour, then give it a 2 star and say it's bad but also say "but I don't really don't like sours" that makes me wonder why the hell they rated it at all.
I use untappd a few ways, though, and some may be contradicting. I kind of set a baseline of if I drink a beer and I would buy another one, then it gets at least a 3.5. That's more to help me to know if I rated something and forgot about it but check back on the beer later, I know that I would get it again if I rated it at least a 3.5. Then with that, I don't rate a beer, like you said, if it's obviously gone bad in a way that's out of the brewery's control.
Then the next rating for me would be how much I like the beer to the style so I sort of do my own "style" rating like you mentioned rate beer has. So if I try an amazing lager, I don't compare it to the best sours I've had, I compare it to the other lagers I've had and rate it accordingly. However, if I try a beer and it tastes more like a different style than what's advertised, then I'd rate it on how much I like it in general but make that note that it doesn't taste like the advertised style.
But all this I do is too much work for most people, which is why people suck and can easily ruins a beer or brewery's rating through their own laziness.
I like to try a lot of different styles. If I find one I don't like (such as sours as you mentioned) I still try to be fair on the quality and effort of the brew and not necessarily my taste. Bud Lite still gets half a star though only because I can't rate it zero.
You also need to look at all ratings at the brewery. Start with the highest rated and look who is rating it, 9/10 it's going to be someone with an interest in the brewery, if you see the same person giving 5's on all the beer. I worked at brewery and we we're told to rate all the beers five so it would come up on untapped higher to get people to come to the brewery. NO brewery makes all 5 star rated beers and very very little make one 5 star. also like you said look at the lowest rating and read the comments. Very few breweries make 1 star beers.
Really good video and overview of the untappd universe, I have so many random ‘friends’ on the app that have added me over time and lambast beers with strange reviews and poor ratings because it was a style they don’t like or had an adjunct in that they hate the flavour of. I began to review by style pretty early and if I come across a particular style I’m not too familiar with then I tend to just log the beer as unrated whilst I discover the style further through taste and trial. A few people have thought it was strange that I would give Saison Dupont or Augustiner Lagerbier Hell a 5 but they really are outstanding examples of the beer style in my opinion, I would never compare them to a Triple New England or an Imperial Pastry Stout, it would be ridiculous to do so
You are my kind of untappd user Tom!
I really enjoyed this video Jonny. I went into it scared and frightened you were going to tell me off 🤣 But I came away from the video agreeing with everything you said. Rating by style is A MUST! Averages are great in terms high-level insight, but it's important to understand the context and what makes up the average. Great video!
All great points and could have not been said better. I been using Untappd for about six year now and I am an untappd supporter. I try my danmed best to provide unbiased objective reviews but I am sure I am guilty as well time to time, especially once you get to that third DIPA :) Great video/post. Cheers.
Sounds like you should create a new platform! I’ve never used a beer rating app, used to use Beer in the Evening to find a pub back in the day but now I’ll pop into a pub if I see something interesting on tap or they have barrels outside from a decent brewery.
Ah man, this is so true. How many times I've skewed my rating because I look up the beer beforehand.
A greater social component would be cool. I love doing verticals and have a nice cellar, however none of my irl friends are into stouts. It would be to meet some people & perhaps even do a bottle share.
Spot on! Great video that I think most Untappd users really should watch. (Me included)
Thank god somebody is finally talking about this! As somebody who works in brewing Untappd drives me absolutely mad! It's a great indicator of how popular something is but a terrible indicator of how good something is. I personally feel likes it's massively dummed down the whole craft beer industry and just encourages people to chase hype and not think about what they're drinking. Your point about giving an explanation for your rating is a great one but Untappd hardly gives you enough characters to write a decent summary of your experience and certainly doesn't reward or incentivise the user in any way for doing so.
Yes more space and an incentive to write definitely would help.
I gave up Untappd 7 or 8 years ago, as I was spending too much money on shite beer, chasing badges and going on awful ratings. It was a liberating experience. This video doesn't make me regret the decision at all!
I love Untappd, and I largely give it credit for fueling my love and interest for beer. When I started using it in 2013 I knew I loved lager beers, but not much else. And it has truly opened my eyes to the world of beer. So you can say that I may be biased in my relations to Untappd ;)
I'd like to adress a few of your points:
Firstly you comment on the Bias of the data. This is true for all ratings, not done under the same conditions such as blind testing etc. The beer you drink with friends on a night out with good conversations will most likely be rated higher than the beer you grabbed on your way home, and had for dinner on a tuesday evening. This is not neccesarily a problem with Untappd. This is the problem with rating outside controlled environments in general. And given that the majority of the 9mill users are not in fact beer judges, but mainly enthusiasts who love beer, these results will no doubt be biased.
You also touch in on the aspects of confirmation bias, and that goes for basically anything we buy or spend time on. Technically you could sell a beer at 7£ a bottle, and the same beer at 22£ a bottle, and most likely the ones that paid 22£ would be happier about it. Because we're programmed to think that if we spend much (money or time or effort) on something it must be good. Psychology is weird.
Rating by style sould definitively be incorporated!
The frailty of beer. This is very true. It is also very hard to remedy within the app. I think the only way to actually adress the problem is education. Education of personell at bars on how to store and serve correctly, education of drinkers on what to expect and what flaws taste like. You're doing a great job there.
The social aspect of untappd is... meh. OK, I guess. There are a lot of improvements that can be made, especially regarding feedback to the brewers. However you can tag people in the comments, if they are in your friends list by using the @.
Largely I agree with you, so I don't know why I wrote this long post where it seems I dissagree a lot.
-Cheers, and keep up the good work.
Haha thanks for the comment adn great to hear that Untappd has been a big part of your discovery! A lot of people forget that it is the way in for so many people. Clearly we agree on all points - I just think the app could do a better job of managing these biases.
Generally I find the ratings system useless, as everything always seems to be around a 3.7 rating. I do love the app for taplists & finding beers in bottle shops though.
I agreed Irish Red ale and irish stouts and Irish brewed beer is stuck in the 3’s.
This video is spot on! I love using untappd to track the beers we've tried, but the hype breweries seem to get great ratings on average beers
That's really interesting perspective. I might as some people would say use Untappd incorrectly. First and foremost, nope I never use it to find new beers/breweries... I don't do much of the "social" interaction either.
What do I use it for then?
Well, it is a database, a big one, I use it to rate the beers I try. So that if I come across one in a different place (say a restaurant or a bar), I can check if I had that one before and based on what I rated it, either go for it or pass. So many times I went to try a "new beer" only to realize I had that one already when going on Untappd. Since, given the choice, I'd rather try something new than get a beer I had before, it is really useful to check out. And, yes, I try to put some comment so that when I read it later I can get why I rate it that way. But, yes, I really use it as my own personal database of beers I tried.
It's a little easier now that I live in Nevada, but seriously when I lived in Portlant, OR before with so many beers/breweries around, Untappd was really for me the only way to keep track of what I had tested. Anyway, to each is own but that's the way I use it and it suits me well (and yes the interface could be improved)
Before I even watch your video, I wanted to thank you for it. It’s stupid to read “reviews” where the writer’s attitude is “I only like hazy IPAs, so I’m giving this Guinness I’m having fresh, in Dublin, a 2 out of 5.” Untappd is the Yelp of beer. Everybody who doesn’t know a damn thing about the subject gets to feel like an expert for a minute.
Now, on to the video.
Great video! That sums up pretty much what I think about Untappd.
I always get frustrated with how much the so-called "hype breweries" and "hype styles" get rave reviews even when they actually put out below-average products, while small guys are left behind. I've commented here before but one experience that will always stick in my mind is some coffee adjunct beers that I had which are filled with low-quality coffee flavoring and somehow get 4+ points. If you watch James Hoffman's videos you'll know what type of flavoring I'm talking about. It's mind-boggling how the rating system fails to address the actual beer quality. Sometimes even beers that have clearly gone wrong get high reviews.
Also, the rating scores are a problem almost everywhere. Nobody ever uses the full scale and always sticks up to higher numbers, only lowering when they really don't like it. You see it in movies and games all the time.
Anyways, now I think of it as a diary to see how my beer experience evolves, the social aspect is just a plus and I'd love to see them develop it a bit more.
I don't use untapped for these reasons. Can I remember the best IPAs I've ever had? No. But I know the brewers I like and I just drink local.
Great video. I've taken a bit of time to understand Untapped. I've started not rating bad experiences and try to always put a comment. Love the brewers that clearly check their account regularly.. looking at you Overtone 🍻😎. Let's try and be constructive and support the industry we love. Love and Beer 🍻🍺
I’m an untappd user guilty of a lot of these things I wasn’t aware of until this video, I use the app as a personal tracker to see what beers are my favourite while I experiment, therefore I had never really considered the effect on the brewer seeing a review of 2/5 because for me I see it as a 2 in my personal taste but can appreciate somebody giving it a more educated 5/5. Perhaps having a private rating function would help if there were other people who use the app like me and my friends do, I guess that’s not very ‘Drink Socially’…
Yeah, I'd like a private rating function. I want to use untappd for personal tasting notes. I generally know which styles I don't like but sometimes I'll get something because it looks good "on paper" or on the shelf. Then I taste it, let's say I don't like it. I want to give it a low rating, so I have a reminder in the future not to get swayed again by the marketing, but I feel bad giving it a bad rating, because maybe it's actually a good beer for the style.
You can actually tag people in the comments. You can only tag your "friends" though. :)
English is not my first language so I'm not big on commenting on beers I check in, and that's something I try to be better at. I usually try to make some jokes, or write something about the whole experience I'm having while drinking the beer. The first beer in the pub after lockdown probably had more text about how nice it was drinking a beer in the pub again, than about the actuall beer. But I think that's something the "taste tags" they've introduced maybe have done better for me. It's easier to just "tag" taste notes.
I've been trying to evolve as a user and I've been trying more and more to rate it by style. The last year I've really been in to english/baltic porters and german lagers anyway, and those usually get the scoring problem you mention in the video when I check them out in the app. I've seen some users that compare and rate a english porter to what they expect from an imperial stout, even though they are different styles of beer.
Another thing I still struggle to use, is the full scale in Untappd. It's probably a positive for the breweries as I tend to skew towards the higher numbers of the scale. And when you support the app and get an even more fragmentet scale, I really would have problems with it. I'm not a connoisseur or a sommelier so I would not know the difference between a 3,5 or a 3,6 or a 3,7 beer. I find it hard enough to difference between 3,5 or 3,75 sometimes ;).
But mostly I use Untappd to a) a source of information, in example to look what's on the menu b) keep track of what I've been tasting c) get notice when some of my closest friends are enjoying a beer or my local pub puts on something new, and d) make funny comments on some check in made by a friend.
Sometimes, when I'm going to a beer store that's verified, I'll get my girlfriend (if she's not with me on the trip tot the store) to make a wishlist on Untappd for some beers from a bottle store that's verified so I know what to bring home :)
Keep on untapping and untapp responsibly :D
Clearly you are a 5/5 Untappd user! We all need to be like you.
I recently had a little discussion with a brewery because I didn't drink their beer fresh enough, according to them. Although the best before date was April 2022. I tried to tell the brewer that I bought the beer a week before I drank it, and it didn't live up to my expectations because the flavors didn't match the style. When I described the flavors I was told: "Yes, you should drink this beer fresh." Then I replied: "Then you have to adjust the Best Before date because there are still 30 cans in the store." "We have no further influence on that," replied the brewery. So then I said they should start working with bottling dates or canning dates so that the consumer knows when something is fresh or not. But I think if they start working with bottling dates, they might be afraid that something less fresh won't be sold as easily anymore.
Yes this is a well known phenomenon. Brewers have to put longer dates than they'd want because otherwise shops and bars wouldn't buy the beer, it's too big a risk. But breweries need to accept drinkers will therefore have beers less fresh - and rather than blaming the drinker, breweries need to brew more shelf stable beer!
Sometimes I forget to check in on the night, would be nice to be able to choose a date within say the last 5 days. Would also like to see a way to add a proper historical check in that has no date attached so that I can add it to my diary without looking like I've drank 30 beers by 11am, when I was just adding things I've drank in the past. These should maybe not count to ratings and badges etc. if there's a worry. Also love the idea of breweries putting on maybe a most recently brewed or can date so that when looking on bottle shop websites I know if a can/bottle is going to be young or old. It could be such a great tool if breweries could engage more (especially reply to honest bad comments like the Treehouse example in the video). New releases feed for my followed breweries.
Yeeeeessssss.........
Was just having this argument with a mate the other week.
(As we tried to enjoy some US imports that weren't blowing us away)
My point was & is; American Beers are rated at least half a point, if not a whole point higher than they probably should be.
I've been to the US multiple times and on the whole, the beers were easily on par with the stuff I drink here day to day.
He argued, we were just experiencing a little hop fade, which I agreed to a certain extent with too.
But I'm still sticking to my guns.
As you were saying; ratings should definitely be adjusted for style.
I too add my own US adjustment.
There is 100% an American skew, particularly for beers that aren't US styles.
The lack of connection is Untappd's kryptonite. Its absolutely ridiculous when you think about it.
So true! Another thing that grinds my gears is people leaving a review of a beer they only had a sip of. It's impossible to give a week rounded rating based on a sip or two...
Indeed - perhaps another reasons session beers perform poorly
I tend to rate beers so I remember if I want to drink it again. I typically know the styles I enjoy and avoid the ones I don't. I do think you can tag friends in your check-in.
Spot on!!! 👍🍻
Tasting beer is such a objective and personal experience. I don't use any rating site and prefer to just stay curious and try all the beers as I get opportunity to. If I do find one that I really like I make a note of it, for myself only, so that I can go back and experience that beer again.
Plus using an app while out enjoying beer, adds to the already anti-social behaviour of using a phone when amongst friends.
Go out to be social rather then getting stuck on your socials.
I'm not sure I buy this anti-social behaviour thing. Would you say the same for people going to the pub and reading? Sure, don't use Untappd while chatting with friends, but equally there are many other things you shouldn't do!
Good video. I think the issue with Untapped and similar platforms like Vivino or Robert Parker, is that the giving of a score or rating has become the goal. The goal I feel should be the engagement with beer styles breweries, a database or means to go down a particular rabbit hole.
I always rate based on the style of the beer I compare the beer to every beer of that style, Because how can you compare different styles? you cant its not fair. I wish that Untappd had that!
Also The hype train is real man, treehouse as great as they are over hyped to the point where no one can get anything anyway, i think thats why people rate so high because its a f**kin hassle to get them lol. Same with the Micro Brewery by me "Fidens" I'm sure youve seen some of their beers on Untappd. Amazing beer for sure but so hyped that the lines to get beer as nigh impossible lol.
Also if its style i dont particularly enjoy i try to think of a solid rating because I know that there is a market out there, so i kinda look at reviews first and just go with the average plus like .25 or so
Agree with all of this. People also have their own rating scale. Some people think a perfect 5 beer doesn't exist while others rate every other beer they drink a 5.
My experience with Untappd - all beers are scored 3.something, and the written reviews have little bearing on what the beer actually tastes like haha. It's still nice to have something, but I always take it with a pinch of salt and hope that other people (including brewers) do too
I've been using Untappd for six or seven years and just this summer I stopped giving scores and only leaving notes. I'm much more interested in what people say about the beer than the number they attach to it. And when I go back to view my past check-ins, my notes and photos are what I enjoy most. I also see so much bad scoring that I just don't want to be a part of it. Although previously I was always pretty generous in my scoring, usually in the 4s, and would rate per style, so I had no qualms giving a fantastic lager 5 stars. But a lot of people just don't get that way of looking at a beer. I also feel bad for the brewers who work really hard to make a beer only to have all these users tear it down with unfair scoring.
Appreciate the video and comments!
I use it to rate the beers according to how *I* like them. And I use Untappd to make notes about the beer.
100% agree with you.
I’ve had some horrible beers as they’ve either been oxidised or just been a disgusting batch. Buttttt the reputation takes over
I was checking IPA dates on the singles shelf at a local supermarket. On a hot shelf, they had an Oskar Blues Can O' Bliss IPA that was canned in March of this year (making it at least six months old at this point). Sucks to see, but it happens all the time.
I agree with matching the ratings with its style. I also think Untappd needs to filter you're profile down to style averages, then when a user checks in a beer, it shows the rating they gave the beer, but also lets other people see the average that user gives to that particular style. That way if Joe bloggs, who has an average of 2 out of 5 for "sours" and gives it a 2, you can see it on the check that this user just generally doesn't like sours and probably best not to take that particular check in too seriously, if you happen to like sours.
Brilliant. This has convinced me to give untapped another go!!!👍 Rasko
Come to Raleigh or Asheville. The beer and food scene is amazing.