Should I age my beer? | The Craft Beer Channel
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- Опубликовано: 14 апр 2020
- Should I age my beer? | The Craft Beer Channel
This week we're dedicating a whole show to the art, science and superstition of beer ageing - telling you what beers you can age, how to age that beer and what flavours to expect from aged beer! Join us we try some beers that went REALLY wrong, but also a few that went really right.
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Any more questions? Post 'em here and we will answer them with SCIENCE (or superstition). And hey, what you ageing right now?
I have ageing right now a 2015 Orval, a 2019 Rochefort 10, a 2017 Rynkedyr from Okkara, a 2018 Paragon from Lervig, a Debauche barley wine of unknown age so i'm asuming 2019, two bottles of an Spanish barley wine from 2018, a 75cl bottle of the Lambic & Stout from Timmermans and Guinness which I think its 1 year old but i'm not sure and I'm thinking about ageing a couple tripels, Westmalle and Delirium Tremens are my choice but I'm not sure about it as they are pale beers
Oh and I made an spreadsheet to have them all controlled, thanks for the idea on that one as my stash was a mess before
Haha you are welcome! So much easier to pick a beer to drink when they are laid out rather than rooting through the cupboards! I don't think ageing Delirium Tremens would work but Westmalle Tripel can work nicely for sure - just not for so long it loses it's edge and becomes all caramel.
Been steadily going through my cellar, trying to drink oldest first. Currently working on beers from 2015
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I will drink the Tremens and age the Westmalle then, maybe I will age a couple of them like 1 for 6 months an another one for a year, I don't think I should push it more than a year and a half
What is your opinion on aging barrel aged saisons / wild ales or even fruited barrel aged saisons?
One of the good things to come from covid was people breaking into their beer stash. A few people on twitter were commenting certain vintages of Westvletern 12 not cellaring well
Try aging Duvel for 2 years. Totally changes the beer.
For Orval, 2 to 3 years is perfect. A while ago, I drank an Orval from 18 years ago. All flavors where totally lost and we got copper taste from the cap. Not worth the wait. 😉
Greetings from Belgium!
Never considered ageing Duvel. Will give it a try.
Yeah, after three years I think Orval fades.
Aging beer is very similar to aging cigars. Really interesting how similar they are as a natural "hand made" product. Brilliant insights. Thanks gents.
Had some 20 years old Geuzes, almost as carbonated as champagne, but the sharp acidity tones down a lot. Was an amazing beer/experience btw. On the other hand, I had aged an A. le Coq Imperial Extra Double Stout from 2001 thas was pure soy sauce. The good thing about failed aging project is, you can make awesome dishes with them.
The gone acids are quite normal: Brettanomyces has the capacity to start using acids, as well as alcohol and other organic molecules as food - meaning break them down to keep making energy for the yeast.
Definitely an informative video, I enjoy learning more about beer, and drinking some good quality brews! Great time to drink some of those saved bottles.
Really pleased I found your channel
Love this video! Had a cantillon geuze in the cupboard for about 2 years...gonna pop it soon!
Great content guys. Keep it up.
So I found an old bottle of conditionined ipa. It had lost it hoppy flavours but was really nice.
Nice video link layout! Informative and fairly snappy. Conclusion: like most of life, no one really knows for sure but there are some good guidelines to follow 👍
This was really good info. I did not know about the ebb and flow of aged beers. I just drank a two year old bottle conditioned farmhouse ale - it was super dry and champagne-like - now I'm wondering what it would have been like in six months! Keep up the great vids - stay safe!
We are aging a few beers at the moment, we have an original version of brewdog Tokyo on the go. Ones we gave a few years to turned out well, so optimistic on that one. Got a couple of Hill Farmstead core beers with a couple of years on them which we have been saving to share. As for a light beer which aged surprisingly well, wild beer sourdough with 6 to 18 months on it really seems to age nicely. Not really a beer I'd normally age, was more of an accident, but really developed nicely.
My grandfather had 2 crates of Westmalle to age in the garage (most constant temperatures in the house, and lot of darkness), started opening them at around 8 years old. No we're at 10.5 years. It is sweeter than normal, but their was some soureness to the 8 year old, wich is mostly gone again, while the 10 year old got more biiter. then that bitterness faded a bit to the 10.5 year old, which was fruityer.
We crack open a bottle every 4-6 months to taste the changes.
That it is changed in cycles is definitly true in this case. It's also a fun adventure, as you never know what you're gonna get exactly.
Me and my family started a craftbrewery 3 years ago.
We have a 10.5%, bottle conditioned, English Barleywine (sweet, thick, heavy, quite dark, just amazing IMHO), and I totally missed a bottle of those in my closet, for about a year and a half.
When I realized this, I put it on the fridge and, when I finally mustered the courage to drink it, it was just spectacullar :D
Amazing! What's the name of the brewery?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel @cerveceriakimum, on instagram
Really nice and informative video. I will save this to send to people in the future. Only thing I disagree with is that there is an exception to the ABV rule. Generally good, but there are low ABV sours, mainly Berliner Weisse, with Brett. Those do age well despite 3,5-4% only. By far the best ones are Schneeeule from Berlin. Get your hands one some, especially Otto, Flora, and Irmgard imho (though you have to get the standard Marlene too) and you will not regret it. Also a lovely tiny brewery and I have about 20 bottles in my cellar, which his far too little. It is true original Berliner Weisse with the original cultures. True gem.
Great vid, thanks for keeping us entertained during these strange times 🍻
Thanks for watching us not 24 hour news in these strange times!
Great video. I've only got a 2019 Marston's Imperial Stout that I've been saving for a special occasion. 7.4%, didn't try it before I bought it and only have one bottle but I'm a bit more excited by it after this video
Enjoy! Hope it pans out tasty!
that's awesome guys thanks for this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel i drank a low abv 0.9% Southwold Lighthouse bitter from Adnams yesterday. This had aged really well, much to my surprise. I bought in 2017 or so, and it tastes way better than the original low abv that i sometimes have if im driving.
I've got a Cloudwater v3 DIPA sitting in my cupboard. I might have to crack that open in these weird times just to see what has happened to it. I hadn't noticed that Brad had go v3 in his stash until you mentioned it.
Very interesting and useful topic. However my take on it is a bit grim, as I see many more risks than benefits on aging beer. So IF you are going to age, maybe don’t go for the most expensive or rarest brew you own, as it might not age well (because you’re not replicating the ideal environment) or you might open it at a bad time: too soon, too late, too...in the middle! Glad to see such cool content despite the quarantine, stay safe guys!
100% AGREE WITH THIS. If it's rare and expensive, drink it now.
Thank you so much for this - has really changed my approach to what to age/enjoy asap. Bought 3 stouts from Himmeriget last week (2014 Imperial Doughnut Break, 2014 Bible Belt and 2017 Marshall Zhukov), because even though not usually a pastry stout/porter lover, I really wanted to see what the long ageing process had done - and knowing they had been kept very well. Tried the Doughnut break at weekend, and fully confirmed what you said here - the adjuncts didn't work and the coffee was long gone. Still reasonaly pleasant, just no distinguishing features, and not something I would look to recreate. Will look for a new Bible Belt before comparing the two I think. Looking forward to an interesting few weeks now, getting through everything under 7% or adjuncty!
Great to hear! The wilder yeasts and simpler recipes seems to be the key to good beer ageing.
interesting subject - thanks for going through some of the science. I've just made an inventory of whats in my cellar (tiny coal hole beneath the front door) - mostly lambic/wild ales down there .. many imperial stouts / dark beers in the beer fridge, some which have been there a little too long (though I do try to drink through the adjunct heavy ones slightly more quickly) problem with drinking big (or even small) bottles of strong stout on lockdown is... need support from stout lovers as I don't live with any!
Haha I (Jonny) am in exactly the same situation! What you need is a Hermetus bottle opener - then you can enjoy them over two nights!
My interpretation of a "beer stash" was a bit different when I first heard that. I had "beer stache" in mind, having a bit of foam in your moustache after a sip of beer
You should try an old Duvel (at least 1year preferably older) , it go's in against some of the rules you set , but it works great :)
your absolutely right.
i'm not such a duvel fan, but the one i tasted was about 10 years old.
the ageing takes away the sharp curves wich are so typical for a fresh duvel.
so i prefer the old duvel because they are softer in taste but remains a lot of it's hoppiness.
I’m stateside and have 2018-2020 bottles of Perennial Abraxas. I plan to get the 2021 in the fall and do a 4-year vertical.
Verticals ftw
Informative video, interesting how the flavors change.
I just cracked a keg of IPA that would be 3 years old November 11th. Stored in the cellar, about low 60's degrees F. Blasted the keg with 40lbs CO2 and did nothing else. It has a low carbonation like a cask, smelled fresh, tasted fresh with still a hop bitter. Tasted like an English Special Bitter. Served at cellar temp. I don't believe it was high alcohol but I need to check my notes. Thought I would share my experience.
6.5% Alcohol
Sad rambo jajajajajajaja, love the videos, greetings from Argentina
I have two Full Sail Board Head barley wines. 2010 and 2012. Waiting for my son to come visit to give them a try.
PNW represent!
I like the ticket printing error on the Geuze Oud Beersel bottle, if it is from an older bottle it seems they have a big batch bottle tickets badly printed since ages.
Pretty gutted I have one of those otherhalf/NM porters! I should of known really, looks like its being opened in the next few days!
Hey it's still tasting good, just not as good as it used to!
I just brewed a 9% dark Saison with lots of Munich Malt and a bit of melanoidin malt.... I think i should age it well, still bottle carbonating it
I just bought some Oude Geuze from Boon (brewing season 2018 and 2019), the bottle says it's best before 2041 (!). I'll hold on to one of them and let you all know how it tastes 20years from now...
right now i have a amber canyon magik from american solera, origins from crooked stave, mariner lost at sea from nøgne ø, abeyye de saint bon chien by BFM from 2016, stelliger divum 2018 from berentsens brygghus, boon kriek 2017, spontancherry frederiksdal 2019 from mikkeller and bleue grande reserve 2019 from Chimay. pluss a lubelski poltorak mead from apis, a LBV port by churchills from 2014
The pandemic was the best thing for my cellar. I drank down nearly 70% of all the stuff I had accumulated over the years and even after trying to restock on several trips over the last year or so, im still not as full as the start of 2020. I just had my last 2012 Ommegang Three Philosophers and it was still excellent. I think I still have a few 2010ish beers that need to be consumed soon.
That’s a really useful guide, thanks! You were mainly talking about 18 months - 2 years. Is that a good amount of time to leave a beer before trying the first one, if you’ve got a few of the same in the cupboard?
Absolutely. 18 months from bottling is often the best balance of aged and not overly oxidised. Unless you can control the storage temp, I wouldn't recommend letting anything go far beyond the 2 year date unless is hits ALL the golden rules we mentioned, and is from a very reputable brewery.
Interesting stuff thanks! I had a Rodenbach Grand Cru gifted to me a few years ago from a shop owner for free whilst we searched for other beers in the cellar. Anyway, it was dusty and a few years old, I think (if memory serves) it ended up tasting like pure vinegar/balsamic with no positive attributes left behind at all. Rotten!
Oh shit. That's bad luck. Perhaps the seal was compromised or it got waaaaaay too old.
IMHO, regular beers, ales, lagers are drinkable within a month of bottling. Stouts, on the other hand, need 3--6 months to mellow out. I've found the same applies to hard cider, it too gets better with age.
I think it depends on the brewery, the beer, the style and the strength! Breweries should be giving a good indication of when they are best to drink, but almost all beers will be best right out of the brewery.
My Megablend bottle says best before 2038. I knew I should have bought at least two more!
Poor sad Rambo with his old DIPA. That's sad indeed.
Also, I'd love to do a tasting with John. What a nice gentleman :)
What about storing? I can't have my bottles standing up in my tiny beer fridge (using a wine cooler that goes down to 7 degrees).
Should be fine on its side, cork or cap.
Thanks, very interesting and entertaining video. Bit more than a comment in length follows; sorry :( Interestingly, I have at least a couple of beers (am an all grain brewer) where I've broken the cardinal rules and the beers are great as far as I can tell anyway; specifically, I can think of a porter below 5% ABV, stored in the dark in a garage (hot in summer, cold in winter) and it still drinks well 2yrs later with coffee flavours/aromas still well pronounced. I also have a couple of bottles of Barley Wine from a John Bull all malt kit shortly after I started brewing but strangely only about 8% ABV and which is now 25 years old! When I crack one open perhaps I should let you know how it drinks.
I tend to do closed transfers which may help but interestingly I have experienced an off flavour on quite a few occasions which I thought was repeated infection even though my cleaning and sanitising regime is pretty good. I now suspect this off flavour may be oxidation. All food for thought. What was said about the ageing process being non-linear makes a lot of sense and I would hasten to say that this makes a lot of sense with respect to the ageing/conditioning process for all my beers with respect to their flavour, aroma mouthfeel and general enjoyability; bottled and/or kegged and not specifically aged just drunk at normal speed over a month or so for a typical 5l mini keg. The beers to me often change in a previously somewhat unpredictable way but now when considered in light of what the brewer from Fullers said about the process being non-linear although in this context over a much shorter timescale it seems to make some possible sense of it all. Thanks again.
bottled my neip 2 years ago and im just drinking one now its dropped crystal clear and to be fair its still golden yellow and loads of aroma still
Yeah all these beers will drop bright eventually. Sounds like you have a great packaging process to remain unoxidised though!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel nothing amazing for sure process is on my channel very armature videos tho
i've got a la chouffe that's almost a decade old now - got it on my 16th birthday
Crikey - no idea how that beer ages.... let us know!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel i'll be drinking it with friends alongside a fresh one, see how it holds up
Just found out about this channel and it's awesome! Very informative and full of really good content, good job guys!
Actually the polish "Grodziskie" in its original form is pretty good beer to age despite breaking most of the rules of aging :P Yeah, it is bottle conditioned, but apart from that it is a very light (~3% ABV) wheat beer :) I guess a high initial bitterness and the fact that it is smoked helps it age well.
In case it helps anyone decide which beer to age, general and I think the most overlooked one is:
Never age a beer you haven't drank before. Taste it first and you will know what can improve over time. If it's really unbalanced, the alcohol is harsh or it really misses those funky or oxidation notes then yeah, it is a good beer to age. If it's smooth and doesn't miss anything then why even bother, maybe there is no need of aging? You only risk some of those beautiful flavors to weaken or completely dissappear ;)
Forgot one more thing - don't waste your time on aging bad, clearly defective beers. I experienced it the hard way and it's not worth it ;)
All great advice! Like we say in the video - most beer is best drunk fresh! We have been burned a few times too!
Thanks for an informative video, is useful to me as a home brewer (specialising in big beers). Think I will now try ageing some commercial beers, probably starting with a Pohjala Pime XO as going cheap at my local supermarket(!).
One question, is it ok to age cans?
100% - modern cans have a lining that is inert.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Thanks, that was what I had thought too.
Hi gents, I’m new to your channel and am finding it all really quite interesting. I’ve been home brewing for around 3 months now and am interested to know what you think about storing home brewed beer in plastic drinks bottles. For a number of reasons, I store all my ciders, beer, ginger beer etc in 1.5 Ltr. Plastics. Are there any real advantages or disadvantages in using glass over plastic for home brew purposes. Cheers.
Hey! There are lots of reasons glass is better though at a homebrew scale they are not so relevant. Main issues with plastic are potential flavour taint (takes years), easier to explode under pressure and easier to damage in transit. The only one that night affect you is they are easier to heat up and cool down and beer prefers a more stable temperature to taste at its best.
Wondering if water profile effects ageing. Experiment store a high sulphate and a high chloride water and see if there is a taste change. ???
Good thought... generally beers we look to age don't have high chlorides although some breweries use this kind of profile to thicken their stouts. We'll do some research!
Dogfish Head 120 IPA. Have let them age for over a year. Turns into pure honey.
What are your guys thoughts on the very polarising subject of horizontal vs vertical storage. Ive read a lot about both ways and I just wanted to know your thoughts. Cheers and keep up the great content!
Hey Ben - yeah this is crazy complicated and not many studies have been done in the beer world. We always store upright, which minimises oxygen touching the beer. That gor us is clearly the best way for all beers with caps (even if they are corked too). If a beer is purely corked then things get blurry but we still store upright unless we intend to age it for many many years - then it is best on its side to keep the cork from drying out.
with the old corks it was a good idea to store them lying down, keeping the cork wet preserved them better.
now with the new corks you better leave them upright so you don't get any cork taste in your beer.
nowadays corks are better in quality.
Seems like it's always difficult to gauge when it's a new brewery, or atleast relatively new, since you never know how it'll age.
I age pretty much all my barley wines for around 3-5 years, lambic for as long as I can keep my filthy paws away from them... Used to age my stouts as well, but never really thought any of them aged very well than standard Yeti and a few oddball clean stouts/porters.
Really surprised about your comments about coffee stouts though, since I find that really heavy coffee stouts age super well, and end up with very deep coffee, chocolate fudge, deep malty sweetness and so on. Though most of mine has been from a swedish brewery (Dugges bryggeri) and their coffee stouts are very, very good for the price point.
You are totally right to age your barley wines and geuzes - I think they are the two best styles for ageing. Coffee beers I have always found die off very hard, but if the stout is extremely sweet to start with (like all Dugges ones) it might work out nicely. In drier ones they just accentuate the dry, roasted character and reduce complexity.
I have a few Bass king`s ale 1902. Maybe i should just pour them down the sink....🤔
It will be fun to try them at the very least.
Opinion on storing corked beers ie. Cantillon/Mills etc. Horizontal or vertical? Wet cork or dry cork?
Ach everyone disagrees on this! It's weighing up the fact that on its side increases surface area for oxidation against a dry cork possibly letting oxygen in. I store mine vertical so the yeast settles at the bottom and because I trust the corks, especially if they have a cap too.
It's a wave
what is your view on aging beer in can?
I've always felt like it's not ideal as I'm worried that there will be some transfer from the package to the beer over time.
where with glass I'm pretty sure that it will stay completely inert over time.
Good questions but as far as I know cans are now entirely inert - shouldn't be any issue ageing in them
Plenty of Lambics are sub 7% and age wonderfully!
This is true and we prove it with the Oude Beersel geuze! If all the other rules are in place one can be broke . Still, we would advise looking for stronger beers whatever style.
That old British man and I have the same last name and love for beer...maybe long lost cousins? 👀
Hails and cheers! 🍻
Old British man?! He's the former head brewer of Fullers!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel "old British man" in the highest regards!
Not so sure about the ABV thing)) What about wilds and spontaneous?
We address that in the video?!
I have a 1998 J.W. Lees Harvest Ale limited edition (11.5%) sitting under the basement stairs in a closet. After 24 years is it time to drink or wait 1 more year for the ¼ century anniversary?
one more year of ageing won't make a difference, i preferably drink my vintage beers around 5 years old.
i am not speaking of sour beers or Brett beers but the quadruple and tripple's.
the doubles lack in taste but are still good, like the guy's said earlier sugar is your best friend for getting a good taste on your vintage beers.
How does the keg process change the great Belgium beers?
As in differ from bottle? If the beer is bottle conditioned, the keg will likely be a little lighter and less aromatic, with slightly rougher carbonation. If it isnt a bottle conditioned beer there should be no difference at all.
I've done a few verticals on some old BA stouts and TBH...I was underwhelmed. I suppose a good bottle conditioned Belgian may be interesting, but to me once they are too old in the tooth (over 3-4 years) they go downhill fast.
I agree most do, which we were at pains to point out at the start. Never age anything unless you're happy for it to potentially suck!
Do you guys chill your beers or do you drink them warm? Sorry if that's a stupid question. The beer just never seems to have condensation.
We drink all our beers at carefully chosen temperatures. Hoppy and lagered beers below 8, wild and Belgian beers 8-10, strong ABV and British styles 10-12. If you look at our reviews of those hoppy and lagered beers you'll see the sexy drips
If you're finishing all those strong beers, good on ya. I'd be on my ass. We're aging a Belgian Dark Ale right now.
Well we used to share them with friends, but under lockdown that is much trickier...
So how do you know if a beer is pastureized or not? I'm mainly into high abv imperial stouts so I know I would be ok there. But what about the pastureized part? A couple favorites are Dogfish Head World Wide Stout and Palo Santo Marron. Another is Even More Jesus by Evil Twin. Thoughts???
It's a little tricky TBH but very, very few craft breweries pasteurise. It's partly because it's against their philosophy and partly because it's very expensive to do, so you can pretty much assume anyone making an imperial stout isn't pasteurising.
That said, Bourbon County Stout is now pasteurised, but that's also because AB InBev own it.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel so it's not an matter of spoiling when it comes to pastureized vs non-pastuerized? Instead it's wanting to allow the yeast to continue to do their work in consuming the sugar in the alcohol correct? Thx for your replies and for the video. Cheers! 🍺 -Jim
The most important thing, for me is to look for a “Best before date” if it’s on the bottle/can. Cantillon/3F beers usually have a 10 year life. NEIPAs have a around a 4 month.
As you’ve said much depends on how hop, fruit or adjunct forward a beer is and how much the beer’s taste relies on that character. NEIPAs and Goses deteriorate after 2 months or so.
Mills Brewing’s recent release Picture Pot’s spiel puts it well: if you want the hoppy character drink this now, if ages expect a more funky character. I’d take the latter but we all have different tastes.
The most difficult for me, is fruited Lambics. You want a balance between the fruit flavour still being there and the complexity that age brings. One of my top 5 beers is a 2016 Lou Pepe Kriek by Cantillon drank in 2019. Astonishing how multi layered it was in cherry flavour, but to me the fruit should have fallen off. I guess it depends on the fruit that’s used.
Indeed - though a lot of breweries like to put long dates on because it increases the beers value and the time they have to sell it. They rarely know how long a beer can last because they have never kept it that long! We are still discovering how modern styles age.
With fruited lambic it is indeed tricky. Within all food and drink is thousands of chemicals - some more delicate than others. If you use whole fruits - particularly fruits with stones and pips they will likely age better.
Some of them even 20years!
7%+ obviously doesn't apply for lambic, saison, etc, as most are in the 5%-6% range. For lambic, some are 10-20 years sweet spot, others oxidize really fast (don't age Boon beyond 5-10 years for instance, 20 year old Girardin on the other hand is amazing). But it isn't strictly brett or bottle conditioned. For instance, Fantome saisons usually age well 10-20 years, but Orval typically becomes really heavily oxidized (cardboard) in the 10-20 year window (2-3 years is my favorite age for Orval). Also Allagash coolship beers I've found to not age very well (I have some bottles now 6+ years old that aren't doing very well!), despite being as close to a gueuze as it gets for an American brewery. So there really is a ton of variation based on the beer, how it's bottled, even for the same/similar styles.
As for the non-linear aging process, I've noticed that a lot myself, particularly on imperial stouts. Founders Imperial Stout, for instance, I feel like goes in 1-2 year cycles. Fresh is my favorite, but then 1-2 years is really weird (old hops, not good), it starts coming back and is great again at 3-4 years, then falls off until about 5-6, where it's probably my favorite age, and then falls off again (and I think for good).
Another classic to age is Stone Imperial Russian Stout. It turns into a mellow chocolate bomb at 5-6 years (falls off a cliff though beyond that though).
Now, I mostly age lambic (mostly gueuze) and bottle-conditioned saisons, with the intention of having a large enough stock to age some bottles 20+ years (Oldest lambic in my cellar currently is ~60 years old!). I do also age some Belgian Strong Dark Ales and such (De Struise, etc). While I still have a bunch of imperial stouts/barleywines in the cellar, I usually don't buy them anymore with the intention of aging (usually have enough to last a year or so when I buy multiples). Of course with some of the yearly limited releases, it's nice to have a vertical over the years as some releases are better than others and some age well.
Well like we say in the video none of the rules are hard and fast - this is designed to help people make good choices. I am amazed to hear anything other than geuze can last beyond a few years though. I have found that fruit flavours get worse and oxidation starts to overpower within 5 but perhaps you keep them in perfect condition! As for Orval, we did a video doing verticals up to 4 years and found even too much oxidation (for us at least!) at 18 months. The other variant we don't mention is how well they are bottled! Oxidation levels are of course reliant on how much got in at bottle anyway.
Finally - re bottle conditioned all our geuze would count as bottle conditioned given that yeast is still significantly active in the bottle - even if it will never carbonate.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Orval being just capped and in a small bottle definitely doesn't help!
Lambic is perfect for aging not only because of the bottle-conditioning and being unfiltered, but because of the mashing profile. Unlike most beers with a short mash, lambic has a long complex mash specifically to create long, complex sugar chains, so that fermentation (however slow) can still continue after several years. That's really the key to how lambic continues to develop, even after 5-10 years!
And if the cork keeps, carbonation can absolutely build up over time as you mentioned. I've had 'lazy' lambic bottles that were originally completely flat become decently carbonated after 10+ years! Talk about magical!
You are right that fruit for the most part can fall off pretty quickly (not always). Usually 5 years for fruited lambic or wild ale is fine, and some can go to 10, rarely does the fruit hold up beyond that though. As example, the apricot on Cantillon Fou'Foune at just 1 year age is already a lot less than when fresh. Fresh Fou on tap is insane (I love it aged, don't get me wrong, it just turns more balanced and funky).
As for saisons, not all age great, but some of the more funky (like a lot of Fantome) can age almost like a gueuze.
My #beerstash for ageing is as follows:
1) Hertog Jan Grand Prestige (2018) @ Hertog Jan Brewery Ageing Cellar
2) Westvleteren XII (2016)
3) Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel Heritage (2013)
4) La Trappe Quadrupel Oak Aged Batch #31 (2018)
5) La Trappe Quadrupel Oak Aged Batch #35 (2019)
6) Liefmans Goudenband (2019)
Do you think ageing would be beneficial for the Goudenband?
Cheers and keep up the good work, stay safe!
I must confess I don't know if they pasteurise Goudenband...given the ownership they might well do so these days. But if not, it would 100% benefit from ageing as it has all the hallmarks - high ABV, wild yeast, darker malts. Let me know how it tastes when you crack it!
My experience with sour beer are not so positive, in my opinion sour's do not have that much evolution in the taste.
it is the sour taste that dominates your beer, and even increases in sourness when ageing.
Few months ago i got a goudenband 2018 from a friend and maybe it got a tiny bit sweeter but very hard to say because of the sour taste.
One exception you can age with less than 7 percent ABV: ORVAL :)
100%. One golden rule is breakable if the others are met.
I actually prefer young orval, seems to taste best at a couple of months old
We enjoy it best around 9 months when the Brett has started to dominate but it hasn't completely dried the beer out, and oxidation is minimal
We did a vertical here ruclips.net/video/LlIvfdsRvTs/видео.html
@@jacklacoste9026 true. No need to age orval too long, as the monks already age it a few months. But, you can store it for years and it will be still very drinkeable.
Thats a real pity about the cloudwater once i aged a hoptimum and it tasted like pure booze with no hops
Ha well we knew it was coming. With IPA you gotta drink it within few months.
Ive got a 3yr old aged Belgium Blonde (Homebrew) at 13.5% ABV. When i pop it open, it flows out excessively. What could be the possible cause? Besides that, it does taste great but gotta let the sediments settle
Over priming the bottle seems most likely - too much sugar so excess carbonation is produced. If you definitely primed it right it could be a small infection not detectable by palate but enough to over carb. Best bet is to chill it REALLY cold so more co2 goes into suspension then open carefully.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Ive kept it in my fridge for a couple of days and that was what happened. Its been too long to recall how much sugar ive added which seems like the case. Even when i slightly open the lid, it starts to flow out. Since ive now gone the force carbonation route i guess that might be a better option going forward
Is “aging” over a month old, 6 months, a year? Great video
We consider ageing a beer being more than a year - only a tiny handful of beers should ever be aged past that point
short answer.. yes... yes you should! XD
haha, we give almost exactly the opposite answer in the video!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel It is very interesting to watch! I think most bottle fermented belgian strong ales gets better with some age 1-2 years. Try La Trappe Quadrupel fresh and one atleast 1 year old, it gets sooo much more smooth, loses the banana notes and loses the alcohol aroma. I had the opporunity to taste a 12 year old Chimay Blue a few months ago, that was so amazing! try to see if you can get hold of old chimay blue and taste it up to a fresh one. Thank you for the video guys! ^^
You said, aging beers with adjuncts is a bad idea. Does that extend to adjunct sugars? They should have been converted to alcohol so I'd figure that this should not be a problem. I am asking because I have a beautiful batch of homebrew Dubbel with 7.6%, homegrown hops and all the rich complexity I hoped for and your videos gave me the idea to age a six pack of it. But if the adjunct rock candy sugar is a problem, maybe this is not such a good idea.
Anyway, cheers from Germany!
Sugars are 100% fine - in fact if the adjunct is fermentable they might even add to the complexity and flavour during ageing. Though I still think fruited beers are best enjoyed young when those fresh fruits are still singing.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I just cracked a bottle of that particular batch and it turned out great. Loads of sherry aromas that complement the malty and yeasty complexity beautifully. Thanks for encouraging me to do this two years ago and happy 2023 :)
I have some 'Victory' ale from 1945... too old? =)
Hahaha almost certainly but it will be a lot of fun to find out!
Did he say coital stability instead of colloidal stability?
How about hefeweizens? I also have a weihenstephaner weizenbock, which is 7.7% ABV?
I wouldn't age either - hefe yeast flavours tend to die off so ageing them will mute the big and bold taste and thin the body
The Craft Beer Channel cheers. Got my box of Hefeweizen, weizenbock etc under the stairs. Best before date of 2021, but will drink them in the next few weeks.🍺😀
Bada Bing888 don’t
it's reallly funny when a ""Beer Expert" says it's low in carbination after they shake and spin a beer in a glass liteally removing carbinatiion
We get this a lot and it makes no sense. It takes a HELL of a lot of shaking to remove a perceivable amount of carbonation. Beers are designed to kick carb out - it is how the aroma escapes, and how head is formed.
Is it OK to age Belgian Quads, Doubels Triples and RIS in cardboard boxes?
Better than in a window!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Phew...
I've aged beers for up to 4 and a half years in cardboard boxes. Never managed to kill anything yet!
1:55 he says while sitting with a 6.2% beer in front of him
anyone know if Cider ages well? i'm guessing the stronger the better?
Not our area of expertise sadly! But again, a wild fermented one might well age nicely if it's strong
I've been focusing on hard cider for over a year now. I use both store bought (not pasteurized, no preservatives, etc.) as well as 100% natural, cold-pressed, orchard-derived apple juice.
I have found, with both, that so long as you cold-crash within a month of bottling, that you can leave them for months. The taste DOES get better. They tend to NOT become like a very effervescent dry champagne.
Think brad is ageing his Barnet
I’m confused. I thought the IPA came about from sending beer from the UK to India and they heavily hopped it to preserve it as the journey was so long.
Indeed they did, but it was to preserve it from bacterial infection, not to help it age well. Those hops would also have been added in tiny quantities compared to today's dry hopping regimes - and its that volume (and how late they are added) that make IPAs very bad candidates for ageing.
Thank you for the reply! That makes sense.
Love the channel, your depth of knowledge is quite impressive. I’m trying the ‘new’ beers out there following you educating me. Still trying to get hold of and drink my way through the vast array of German weissbier though.
Keep it up and thank you.
@@munichbier1167 No problem and thanks for watching! Let us know what joyous Weissbiers you find! Planning a video on them soon.
what about your day? you can have day when bitter si bitter much more than a month ago, the same thing with sour, sweet and so on...
Well my problem is that I'd drink beers too quickly to age them! Jokes aside, I'd love to age a collection, but, I can't get interesting beers here in India.
It will come! And you will have the knowledge now to know what to drink as soon as it does and what to save....
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Keep up the good work guys. If you are ever out this way, give me a buzz, I'll introduce you to the local scene, both home as well as craft.
I feel soo good to be 1k liker
Feels so good to reach that number! Thanks!
Maybe this has been asked before but what happens to those bottles you open and sample???!! I would drink them lol hopefully the ones that are drinkable are being imbibed.
What happens?! We drink them - Brad and I always hang out and enjoy the beers afterwards. And when we can't we have Hermetus bottle openers to reseal them and enjoy later
Aging some orvals.....1 year so far in cellar
Awesome. Seen our video about ageing Orval? ruclips.net/video/LlIvfdsRvTs/видео.html
The Craft Beer Channel...I will watch later
Do you think national lockdowns are going to put a lot of breweries out of business?
Many, many thousands sadly. Jonny has written about it extensively over on goodbeerhunting.com in the Sightlines section.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel That's a real shame!
Your golden rule is wrong. You can age many sour beers that are well below 7 percent. This is done routinely all over the world and has been done for ages. Most geuzes, lambics, and other spontaneously brewed or mixed ferm beers are well below 6 percent with many in the 3 to 4 percent range as well. All of them can age well.
There are of course exceptions to that rule, and we say the rules are not hard and fast - if a beer is bottle conditioned and wild fermented you could very likely bend that 7% rule and have success (as we did with the Beersel Geuze later on!). That said, many lambics and spontaneous beers will be approaching 7% and you are much more likely to have success at such ABVs.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel That is maybe true, but take "Le Petit Prince by Jester King" people age that all the time, and say it tastes great... that "table beer" is at 2.8 percent. That being said it does have wild yeast and bacteria in there as do most of jester kings beer.
@@srh9893 That is indeed a huge outlier, though I still prefer it pretty fresh. There is lots of beer you can age and get flavour development, but I the questions is whether you should - most beer tastes best fresh particularly without temp control.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yea that is probably true in that most of these things taste better fresh. For me personally, I am aging stuff that I cannot get where I live whenever I can buy it. I used to live in Texas so i have a bunch of texas sours aging because I live in new england and its not possible to get them in New Hampshire. For me, it is more about(I'd rather have a beer at 70 percent of what it could be, than not have it at all... compared to what I can get here). I tend to drink the beers I can get easily more readily and i just tend to hoard the ones I won't have a chance of buying again for years. Not the wisest, but it serves me well. Cheers on your videos, I enjoy them greatly!
@@srh9893 Totally understand! I think most beer stashes are just beers we are looking for an occasion to drink rather than purposefully ageing. Thanks for commenting!
This is not an uncertain times cause pandemics has been happening for millions of years, like sars, spainish flu etc.
Well someone should tell the politicians how to do it properly then!
People are, but those criminals politicians won't listen along with banker. insurance etc. They have the power so called ordinary don't.
I love the info but there is nothing worse than the mouth noise made when you are tasting the beers.
Noted! Will try to edit them out!
That guy lost me after 30 seconds... Dont age beer below 7% really ? The lambics are below 7% so is the Orval. And they age great...
We are giving general rules at the start, and clearly state exceptions. To be good for ageing, a beer must have two of the three important characteristics.