The Rarest 1911: North American Arms Co
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2024
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In the summer of 1918, the US government wanted to increase production of M1911 pistols, but all current manufacturers were working at capacity. So they looked to issue new contracts, and someone realized that the Ross rifle factory was a potential option. Now, the Ross Rifle Company was bankrupt by this time, and its factory lay essentially abandoned. So in June of 1918, two Canadian lawyers by the names of James Denison and Edmond Ryckman incorporated the North American Arms Company Ltd in Quebec, signed a contract to manufacture 500,000 1911 pistols for the US, and then leased the Ross factory for a term of 18 months. Whether they would have been successful in producing pistols at scale is unknown, because their contract was cancelled on December 4, 1918 before any deliveries were made. With the end of the war, arms requirements plummeted, and pretty much all ongoing weapons contracts were cancelled, not just this one. However, parts for 100 pistols had been produced, and these were assembled and sold commercially after the contract was cancelled.
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The building, while important, isn't what makes a company. It is the skilled people that work in it that made the idea work.
Indeed, if any of the people who knew how to machine out a Ross were still there after the bankrupcy, a M1911 wasn't *that* difficult to work out.
RIA Website says that the factory was leased along with all its employees.
Many bosses don't understand this and think the BEAN COUNTERS make the company
It's a shame their contract was cancelled before any deliveries were made, but it's amazing that some of these rare pistols still exist today.
With guns like these I always wonder if there are any more of these still laying around in some grandpas nightstand. Some guy might have inherited one of these from his father for example and never realized it's something special, because it's rare. If you didn't know any better this is just a regular 1911.
@@Hurricane2k8 yeah they may even know the history behind the gun, but they might not understand the rarity or value in what they have.
I just hope none have been de-milled because of stringent Canadian gun laws
It's crazy that you manage to find something new to show us every single time, after all these years.
Go to the gun museum in Cody Wyoming. So many guns to look at my eyes hurt .
@@321CatboxWA I keep thinking of making the road trip up there...
My granddad had one of these! Unfortunately he had it nickel plated & I sincerely doubt he knew or would have cared about its scarcity. Neat to see a video about my badass grandpa’s badass handgun, thanks Ian.
well, given they only made around 100 of them, it's reasonably likely your grandpa owned the only nickel-plated north american arms 1911, maybe not better to collectors, but a win on uniqueness
Of course the rarest 1911 wasn't immune to bubba, :(
What became of it?
As a child, I really wanted a Singer 1911 A1, but quickly realized how impossible that was. I did however happen upon a nice actual Colt from the era that at the time I was able to afford. That was almost 40 years ago and now I realize how lucky I was to find what I did. --Dan
I almost got a Singer in 1994, from a friend's collection. Almost. Guess I wasn't his "best" friend. Sold it to someone else for a wee bit more than I had on hand.
I guess it is a matter of where you're from. As a kid I wanted a Webley and a No1 Mk3 303 rifle. The 303 was a journey I got an Aussie one then came across some BSA one an Ishapore one and a N04 Savage that was ex NZ army. Slim pickings in Australia 🇦🇺
I got a colt from 1918 with a 1937 replacement slide. It wasn't cheap for sure.
@@davidleonard1813 My father would have been tickled by an actual BSA rifle. He collected and restored old BSA motorcycles - his first love when he was growing up in the 40s and 50s. I remember the first wreck of one he brought home, and I asked him about the stacked rifle logo on the bike, which was when I first learned "BSA" stood for "British Small Arms" - they shifted to motorcycles and other smaller machined works after WWII. And while he wasn't a "gun guy", he would have enjoyed displaying an actual BSA rifle in the garage, for sure...
the 1911Eh, delivered on a Zamboni
19 eh-leven
Lubricated with back bacon and blued with Tim Hortons coffee.
Those grips are made from maple.
Zambonie!😃😃😃
Ha, ha, ha!🤣
Good one!👍
Chambered in 45 EhCP
About twenty years ago, I had the rare privilege of holding a North American Arms Co 1911 45 made in Quebec City in 1918.
I believe that the owner of the 1911 was a civilian who worked for the Sûreté du Québec (police) and I suspect that he had saved the weapon from destruction.
I went to him just to buy a Ruger 10-22 advertised in the classifieds but discussing, over time, a bond of trust was certainly created, possibly the reason why he showed me his 45.
His 1911 had unfortunately been chrome plated and had an adjustable sight, the modification had probably been made by a moron in the 60s or 70s. The new owner at the time intended to return it to its original condition via a chemical process reversing the plating, which would return it to white, ''as when it left the factory'' (he told me).
The owner was very aware of the hisoire of his weapon and had stated that, despite the modifications made, the rarity of the weapon still gave it an inestimable value.
This is the kind of incredible story that rarely happens in a lifetime.
I qualified on a Singer 1911 at Lackland AFB for LEO training in 1986 🫡🇺🇸
Now THAT'S cool
@@mjcmustang not so much, it was horrible at keeping a group! Another Marine had his malfunction and fire a magazine FULL AUTO ☠️
@@gunnyclaus8511 considering it's age, where it's been, and the less than steller armorists who worked on it. It gets a pass.
Fault of the unit not maintaining them
@@tomhenry897 the metal failed, only an X-ray would be able to detect the damage and predict the failure!
I can't help but wonder what those pistols would've been like and how they would've performed. The fact that parts for 100 pistols were still assembled and sold commercially adds an intriguing layer to this piece of history.
The company had skilled workers, and before WW1 Ross produced hunting and target rifles. High tolerances in manufacturing may have served this pistol the same way it did the early Ross Marks . "High quality but not dirt friendly "
My late Gun Guru had a story about the first one of those 1911s. according to my Guru, the very first gun was left in the white when it was sent to the US for approval in 1917. Years later, when the engineer retired, it was sent back to him as a presentation gun for his retirement. In the mid 1950s the engineer died, and his widow didn't want the gun around anymore, so called up a gunstore in Montreal, and an apraiser came out to see it, and bought it for $100 Cnd. The apraiser was apparently having a dispute with his employer, so when he got back to the store with the pistol and a young ex Marine came in as he got back, he sold the gun to him for cost, $100 Cnd. My late Gun Guru, the ex Marine and Koren War vet sold the gun a few years later for about $400! I have the negatives of the photos, and really need to find a photography shop that can print them, as they are not 35mm, but larger. I don't know if the story is actually true, but is is in my Guru's records.
...oh, do it! Those photos would make a fascinating addition to Ian's website!
I am a bit of a film photography nut. While I only shoot 35mm myself, I know enough to say that if you’ve got a film negative larger than 35mm from the 50s it is effectively certainly 120 film, which is also known as medium format. As an historical anecdote, 120 film is what the Hasselblad cameras used by NASA during the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs shot, so all those famous Apollo photographs you’ve seen of the earth and astronauts on the moon were on 120 film.
It’s still made to this day, and I’m sure you can find a camera store that will scan the negatives for you. If you’d like to share what state you live in (and what part of the state if it’s a bigger one), I’d be more than happy to do some digging to find one for you.
(It’s also possible to scan them yourself if you’ve got a really good flatbed scanner, or a good DSLR or mirrorless camera can be used from a stand, you’d just need to install some software to reverse the image and do final color correction and potentially mess with the contrast, but it would obviously be easier to just let someone else do it)
I used to do a lot of film photography myself, might be able to look up indie film lab, they can do direct scans from the negatives
Any scanners that scan prints and negatives can convert it to a print and print it out on a color printer.. My Epson Perfection V39 scanner does this for me on negative film that I took from the 1980s. You don't need a photography shop, I think they are extinct by modern digital technology
When you draw it from it's holster, you're compelled to say sorry to anything you shoot.
Don't forget to say it in French too
You know that Canadian guy who ran over some muslim old ladies with his pickup truck? He didn't say sorry after. He did ask to be put in protective custody almost immediately after his arrest though.
Exactly….“sorry?”lmao
FreedomToons actually did a skit about that called "The Big Canadian Gun Ban".
That's 'soory'.
Used to seeing lots of Canadian made Browning Hi-Powers a 1911 is pretty cool.
Now here is the question.
Would the Canadian Forces been better off adopting this 1911 as their service pistol or the High Power they later packed?
The Inglis Hi Power is a fine pistol!
HiPower is better if main weapon as more rounds and easier to shoot. 1911 better back up as one shot stopper.
I would say that the higher capacity magazine and the lower recoil of the 9mm would have made it faster for training and easier to master. Also, if you're carrying the Hi-power, you're probably carrying a Sten, so ammunition management would be more efficient.
I guess,like carrying a Thompson or M3 :grease gun" along with the Colt.
@@shawnmiller4781seeing that the Hi Power is still in service with Canadian Forces I would say it is not that bad right?
The Ross Rifle was a terrible Front Lines rifle but the leading Sniper Ace of WW1, Lance Corporal Francis Pegahmagabow used the Ross to great effect as a Sniper.
It was fantastic in that role since specialized troops could take care of it. But I didn't know that the rarest 1911 is a Canadian one.
Othias of C&Arsenal said it was regrettable that the Ross' teething problems stretched out so long, by the time they got to the Mark III it was quite a good rifle. But then the war ended. IIRC it still had the drawbacks of costing too much money and time to manufacture - still too many parts. I think he said the usability by the average front line soldier was improved but am fuzzy on that.
As a french canuck, i must say I'm lowkey happy that we produced the rarest two wurld warz god caliber. Thanks Ian, you made my day
I had always believed Singers were the rarest. Ian always teaches me new things!
This is a 1911, Singer made 1911A1's.
Since they were never actually delivered to the US government they technically aren't even M1911s. They were only sold commercially which makes them among the first 1911 clones.
Waking up to a new Forgotten Weapons video is a rare treat.
Ian posts new videos regularly!😆
How do you think it is a rare event?
🤔🤔🤔
In 1975 in Las Vegas in a pawn store I had occasion to inspect one of these. Even back then I knew it was a rarity. Sadly it had been 'butchered' by Interarms and converted into one of their Silver Cup pistols. I have no recollection of what it's serial number was, but it is probably still bouncing around out there somewhere.
It looks like the slide cut at the front of the slide is shallower on the NAA than it is on the other pistol.
That lightening cut by Colt will change to the gentler radius eventually.
Canadian M1911 has safety has two settings says:
"Apology accepted."
"Better say sorry, eh."
Why does the 1911 look 100 times sexier than other pistols?
Because it is.
The Beretta M92:
It strikes a very nice blend of functionality and elegance (I put the Beretta 92 and Hi-Power in this category too) - it's full of subtle curves: grips, the slide contour, the little tang at the back of the frame, the trigger guard and trigger, and the front portion of the slide. The wood grips also provide a nice color & texture contrast. On the other end of the spectrum, you have stuff like Glocks, which are blocky and brutalist in design, and aesthetically can't hold a candle to the real classics
The Hi Power is (slightly) hotter.
@@kbjerkethe most Murican answer so far
Of course it’s the rarest, it’s the only 1911 that says Eh after every shot
Or hoser.
Forty five eh see pee
Or it apologizes by saying sorry after every shot lol
Sowwy. Sowwy. Sowwy
Eh dont say eh , its from Québec. He say "tin kin mon tbnk" 😂
No giveaway for this one? Dang.
I can hear Ian right now, "hahahahahahahaha.....no".
Minus 1 point for not wearing Bob MacKenzie hat and Moosehead on table.
Labatts Bleu - we're talking Quebec
@@ROBERTNABORNEY Molson Export might also be acceptable.
The slippery hammer looks quite scary.
1) It looks as if the Canadians were serious and if the war had continued into 1919 as everyone thought, today would be remembered as a minor triumph
2) And I thought my ex-RAF (Broad Arrow) Government Model (It was a commercial sale, so technically isn't a 1911) in 455 Eley was rare (8800 or so made). Issued as a sidearm to aircrew until the end of the rematch.
During the 80s, I was able to come across a 1911 with Singer marked on the slide. The pistol was finished in blue and the finish seems to have been done locally. Another 1911 I encountered was marked Union Signal Switch. It was parkerized but you could see the wear on the finish due to the pistol having been carried in a leather holster. Although rare, the North American Arms 1911 may probably not be as highly sought after as the other 1911s that were used in our country during WWII. Having been issued to the US military and having been used in conflict are factors that appeal to most 1911 aficionados out here. Great video Ian !!
Yes. I especially love the WWII models marked US Government Property. I have a Colt made in 1942 myself. It’s parkerized and stamped SA but that’s how a lot of them served in later decades.
Thank you Ian for another tremendous video.
There was yet another company in Canada making quality firearms - the North America Arms Co (not "AmeriCAN") in Toronto Ontario. They developed a version of the Hi Power in 45 Auto, among other things.
Yes. NAACO produced the experimental 'Brigadier' in a proprietary .45 cal. later brought back as the .45 Winchester Magnum.
That's something I'd like to see.
@@cgoad And I have a mint example of a .22 Bolt action rifle they built for a short time, called the Grizzly Model 10. SWEEEET rifle, and also ultra rare!
@@oldesertguy9616 I'd like to see one in my personal vault!!
It’s a shame Canada doesn’ want to acknowledge their firearms history
One of my favorite models, didn’t know about this! Thanks for sharing this
Great video and very informative.
I remember about 20 years ago (in Canada) a kid stole one from his father's collection and used it to rob a convenience store. Luckily, the owner was able to convince the judge of the historical value of the gun and it was returned instead of being destroyed, but it was a close call.
The cheeky "eh?" at the end 😂
Looks like there was a difference in the contour of the slide by the muzzle also.
By North American i thought he meant the guys that made aircrafts haha.
They were sorta busy being Fokker, and, you know, making aircraft for the Germans.
The company that came up with the P-51 Mustang.
love that some of these pistols still exist over a hundred years later for us to look at. cool bit of kit!
Well that's a unicorn version for sure. Good bit of history.
Greetings from Canada, and sorry we messed this up...
Wait, it doesn't suck? It's well made!?!? WE DIDN'T MESS IT UP! Heck yeah, buddy. Not sorry this time. Enjoy your beautiful 1911 pistols!
Thanks for the awesome video, once again!
😄Liked the cheeky 1911A/EH? at the end, made me chuckle.
Of the original 100 NAA 1911s made, 150 are still floating around gun show tables!
Nice. I like that history lesson😎
Very cool! Never knew about this one. Thanks!
Super cool piece of Canadian firearms manufacturing history
Great stuff thanks
That M1911 variant produced by North American Arms Company is very fascinating by simply being the rarest of all variants put together and i'm glad the one you got your hands on was in fantastic condition. Thanks for this interesting video Ian, as a history buff you have my gratitude👍.
If you take other rare variants and put them together, doesn’t it become a less rare variant 🤔?
😂
The shape and look of a 1911 never gets boring.
It's still boggles my mind, it's such an old design.
Thanks as always for using the appropriate flag of Canada for the time in the thumbnail....A flag we should have kept.
Great story!
Tisas makes a flat mainspring cover like that. I have told them more than once that they should just go ahead and make the rest of the changes to make a reproduction M1911.
Um, they do and I own one.
@@armorer94I understand that the innards are based on the later models
this is the coolest story about a weapon and contract created and that piece would be amazing to have in a collection! wish i had money to buy it!
Highly recommend the C&Rsenal 1911 videos for more detail on Colt’s subcontracting shenanigans.
If I remember well, Tom from Legacy Coll. had the n° 73.
He considered it as "poorly finished" with "too much copper in the blueing, that was going yellow".
And I think he said "none of them was accepted by US Army because of its poor quality".
Strange, because this one (n° 97) looks fine…
And on Monday, Gun Jesus did bring a 1911.
👈😎👍
Very nice
Definitely a beautiful and rare 1911Eh1.
That’s really amazing
Buy it Ian
I'm impressed that you have the proper Canadian flag for 1918 it looked odd so I looked it up and I learned something new today and that is the flag that I am used to seeing came into existence in 1921.
Very cool!
Cool I love this one. Had it as blanks gun
Very Cool 1911 firearm 😎
No idea this existed at all, thanks for the information as always.
Nice pistol.
I seriously appreciate the end of video subtle "eh".
There is beauty in 1911,its my favorite
Well done.
Thank s
Great story. Thank you.
The rear sight seems to sit higher in the top slide and the cutaway (i'll call it fluting) underneath the muzzle has a distinctly different angle to it.. also the bottom part of the magazine seems thicker and slightly longer than the other one, so there are a few more differences than just the lanyard loop and hammer.. great videos, thank you😊❤
This actually indirectly answers some questions I've had about some used rifles up here I've seen with the NAACO branding because they don't seem to have left much of an impression on the community consciousness as compared to say, Cooey
Cool video.👍🥃
Any history of that piece would be interesting.
Very Interesting , Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
I'm from Montreal in Quebec. I heard of Canadian 1911, but I didn't know they were the scariest
That is a very smart looking 1911.
I hope our dear friend, the Ophthalmologist, buys this one for his collection.
I bought one of these North American Arms 1911's from an old man at a garage sale in about 1989 or 90. He said it was a foreign copy of the 1911 and it was made in Canada. He sold it to me the gun for $100. Many years later I found out how rare it was when I mentioned it to a guy at the hot show. Mine is serial # 52. It runs perfectly.
The front slide contour cut is swooped back further towards the dust cover and at a more shallow angle than the Colt. Kinda neat
What's really amazing about the popularity of the 1911... 113 years later, just like some of the most gorgeous classic cars ever made, is its iconic, eye-appealing design lines that Browning incorporated into his gun designs. I still am trying to get a hold of couple different Woodsman models. I sure wish they would reintroduce them like they did with the 1903.
Such a cool historical gun. A friend had one and let me shoot it from time to time. As a young fella i thought it was the coolest thing ever. Love your stuff, mate. Thanks.edit. a 1911 not a Canadian one
Nice
A good video
What an amazing pistol to own. I wonder how many there are still out there?
I can't find an online reference, but I seem to recall some fellow - I think it was in Montreal - robbing a corner store and getting caught by the police. He was using one of these rare Canuk 1911's and if he'd only sold it instead......LOL
the 1911 is always the iconic pistol
A great rare find!
But, Ian what make is your watch?
I am watch guy.
Cut on the slide is different.
I think we're at a point where if Ian accidentally damages an extremely rare firearm with a screwdriver, it should add value to the item.
the Canadian high power service guns are coming out of service and approximate 150 for militarily museums and maybe 250 for special service training (over seas training)
It's awesome that this is the same company tha developed the .45 NAACO (later WinMag).
The curve on the underside of the front portion of the slide also looks different than the Colt model -- it has a more gentle (i.e. larger diameter) curve.
As a French Canadian, thank you for your prononciation of Québec!
Can you please make video on ShKAS and ShVAK rottary MG/cannon, that are actually forgotten and no samples of them exist anymore?
Hi Ian if the weapons shown are to be sold through Morphys or any other auction house it would be interesting to get your take on how much they will go for when sold. Many thanks
Sometimes you just need the guts to try what seems impossible.
It looks like the lightening cut along the side has a different curve to it
Front cutout on the slide looks different too.
You neex that old reliad system called Johann. It will provide a fully loaded revolver on demand. Back then every german 8fficer had at least one ;)
That's a pretty handy dandy historical gun, there, eh bud?
Don't know if you will even see this Ian, but I know you sometimes read comments.
Usually your videos only have a pre-video ad at best, this one had a mid-roll ad. I know in the past you've chosen to remain monetized and I respect that.
Just want to make sure you're actually getting your dues with ads and RUclips isn't screwing you over (even more) by running more ads and not paying you
Let's discuss what's on your wrist. Looks a bit like a Marathon GSAR.