You can actually square up a cheap combination square. If you take out the ruler, you'll see that it rides on two nobs in the casting. Cheap squares are made from aluminium, and the nobs can be ground down easily with a small file, some sandpaper, or even by scraping the edge of the steel ruler. You can fine-tune a combination square like that. But cheap ones go out of square after usage again. So you need to check it from time to time.
Couple months ago I bought a cheap combination square branded "Empire" and it is dead accurate (I've checked it using good-quality machinist try square). My point is cheap doesn't necessary mean bad.
@@tom0428 I've also got a few Empire tools that are not accurate. Only the True Blue line are guaranteed accurate. I picked up a set of their combination squares recently fully expecting to have to tune them, surprisingly they were just as accurate as my other True Blue tools.
I bought a 10 buck Hazard Fraught combo square after having a stroke when I saw the cost of a “quality” square. I set it up and made it accurate against a Woodpecker square that serves as the reference square for the shop. It hasn’t come out of square yet. Saved myself over a hundred bucks on that one.
Excellent video! I've had a love/hate relationship with my average quality Stanley combo square for years. Love your ideas for making cheap combination square "lemonade" out of "lemons"! Now I can get my top-notch square and still have valuable uses for my Stanley.
For beginners: one thing not mentioned is that cheap combination squares will have a rule (the straight ruler part) that can bend really easy. Once it bends, even a little bit, it's junk; you're never going to get that thing flat again. Often, you'll take one off the shelf at the big-box store, and it will already be bent. A good square will have a "tempered" or "hardened" steel rule (and will be labeled as such), which will not flex without lots of force; even if you can flex it a little bit, it will go right back to it's original shape once you let go.
Colin... you do not know how much worked you caused me. After watching the video, I checked my working combo squares to a machinist square. Most were off a little. The one I used the most was off a lot, and my father's old German carpentry square was bang on even being 50+ years old. Next, I checked the straight edge rulers...same issue and next the 45 and 90 face of the combo square to a true straight edge...same issue. Out came my chisel sharpening stone, and I set about to make one of the combo square true in all aspects. The tough part was finding a 3/32 edge flat file. If you count the time to make it true, it is better to get a high-quality square. Now, to square up everything else.
Hi from Australia So many brands of squares around, good to learn what to look out for! Like your onscreen personality fun to watch. I have subscribed and will be watching a lot of your older videos. Regards James One Handed Maker
I purchased an inexpensive framing square once and learn fairly quickly that not only can they be cheaply made, but the measurement marks were out as well.
Had to work with a friend's super cheap square a couple of weeks ago. It used a molded plastic body and the rule was soft and had a bend to it. For what I was doing it was OK but I felt a little "dirty" while using it.... 😁 But it did teach me that if I need to check a cheap square that I needed to start by making sure the straight edge is in fact straight. To that end to aid with keeping it cheap I'd start with two finish nails in a piece of scrap plywood or MDF that are spaced just inside the ends. I'd make a knife mark along the middle then flip the straight edge over and make another knife mark. If the two are not actually one single groove then the straight edge ain't straight. But on the cheapies they can be easily bent a little to make them straight. And after that THEN the squareness can be checked.
I keep one in a drawer right next to my chop saw. I do not have a laser light showing me where the blade will cut so if it's necessary, I can draw a line where I want to cut and then bring the blade down to meet that line. Once in place, I cut. I have a very nice combination square that I use when accuracy is more important than the convenience of location.
I use machinist fixed squares. I do have a starrett adjustable that is adjustable. If you do go to a big box store check it there for square first before buying. Tape measures need to me checked.
I had a cheap tape measure in my beginning shop class. I didn't know then that an inch on it did not equal an inch on other tools. I made a candle box in which the back turned out wider than the front due to that. By the time I figured that out, it was too late to correct. We have to be sure measurements on different tools agree with each other, for sure.
An unmentioned point, cheap rules have stamped markings. Which means fat, inaccurate lines. Quality rules are engraved with much better accuracy. Plus, the surface finish is not glossy, so the numbers are much easier to read.
Collin, how about doing a piece showing how to correct an out of square combination square. All you need is a small riffler file (you can get a set of them at Harbor Freight tor about $5). The blade of a combination square rests on two points in the head. The nut simply pulls the blade against these two points. By carefully filing one of these points and rechecking, you can get them aligned in a few minutes. Be careful if your square's head is aluminum. Aluminum can be removed rapidly. If you do take off too much , go to the other side an make a stroke or two with the file. Constantly recheck using the method you show by drawing a line perpendicular to a straight surface, then reversing the square and drawing another line.
I have two or three older combination squares. One inherited, another one or two I found illegally dumped (people often throw away stuff they have no idea what is or what it is worth). I may have made an adjustment on ones I found, but they are all dead on now. I have seen all sorts of articles and videos about why we shouldn't use combo squares, but then nearly every one ot the woodworkers I see picks up a combo square when they want to mark somthing! I tend to use my machinists squares more often.
At a sheet metal brake I might have 2 or 3 set to different reaches for repetitive marking. Mine measure distance more often than squaring. My favorite is a Mayes with ground stainless scale and iron body. Used your sliding block thin strip jig to make wedge strips. 5 degrees on the block and saw set 5 degrees away from block makes 10 degree wedges.
Good video but though buying expensive should mean accurate you can get accurate combination squares at a moderate price too. Checking them is important as you show. I love you saying don't use an inaccurate, cheap, square when setting machines but also inferring you can use inaccurate expensive ones. Made in America means nowt to us Europeans lol. Thanks for the video.
I'm disappointed that, instead of limping along with a misaligned combination square, you didn’t just adjust the alignment. There are several good videos showing how to do that.
Even the best combo squares will become inaccurate over time, with use. The metal on metal when adjusting, will wear. The cheap ones with softer metal, depending on how much you use them, are worse.
Combination squares are a mixed bag in my experience: albeit the rule "you get what you pay for" is always true, I got expensive ones which are slightly off and cheap ones which are surprisingly accurate.
On the other hand, i have several cheap aluminum hardware store squares that are dead on, or within half a degree... quality is Not determined by price, or material. Cheap does not equal junk. This is wood working, even cabinetry, not cnc, within a degree is far and away good enough. Want perfection, get a machinists try square, not an adjustable square.
Extra: Once you get a good one NEVER drop it….and don’t let the five year old nephew get at it, or lend it to the clumsy, tool destroying friendly neighbour. You pay well for precision…guard it with your life…or theirs…..
There’s a difference between a woodworker and carpenter. Carpenters build houses and I totally agree with you that we can use these for most home building tasks.
I am in the process of buying a jointer/thicknesser combo. I know its better for these to be separate but I simply have no space. Maybe someone can help with what to buy. The market seems full of rubbish Chinese machines under different brand names and color. Does anyone know of a decent machine which is not thousands of dollars, but is decent? I don't want anything fancy just a simple machine.
In my experience not a single combination square is accurate, they all have "play", for a measuring tool that is a big no no, I really don't understand some engineers how they came up with these things, my eyes can get a better square cut, seriously.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I once believed they always sold square squares; wow was I wrong… Buying expensive also do not guarantee precision, I have expensive squares that are right on one side and way out of line on the other side, which makes one ruin so many projects. No, I feel that all inaccurate tools belong in the trash, if they are not thrown there or at recycling then paint then orange or something so you do not use them by mistake. 🤕
![✅ Top 5: Best Combination Square 2023 [Tested & Reviewed]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w3-Saoh2Rzg/mqdefault.jpg)
![✅ Top 5: Best Combination Square 2023 [Tested & Reviewed]](/img/tr.png)
Colin, you are the best teacher I've come across here on RUclips. Your calm demeanor and concern with safety is fantastic. Thanks for all you do.
You can actually square up a cheap combination square.
If you take out the ruler, you'll see that it rides on two nobs in the casting. Cheap squares are made from aluminium, and the nobs can be ground down easily with a small file, some sandpaper, or even by scraping the edge of the steel ruler.
You can fine-tune a combination square like that. But cheap ones go out of square after usage again. So you need to check it from time to time.
Ditto
and go very slowly with the filing
Same here. Fixed a few with the same trick. Went from OK squareness to dead on with a little effort.
Removing metal in a rule doesn’t make it square…
Colin I recently purchased a Freud fusion saw blade and works GREAT a real smooth cut thanks for the video
Couple months ago I bought a cheap combination square branded "Empire" and it is dead accurate (I've checked it using good-quality machinist try square).
My point is cheap doesn't necessary mean bad.
I've got several of Empire's "True Blue" tools, they're all dead accurate.
Y'all Got lucky, none of the empire's I got from HD are square
@@tom0428 I've also got a few Empire tools that are not accurate. Only the True Blue line are guaranteed accurate. I picked up a set of their combination squares recently fully expecting to have to tune them, surprisingly they were just as accurate as my other True Blue tools.
Wonderful information, thank you for sharing, stay warm, safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
I bought a 10 buck Hazard Fraught combo square after having a stroke when I saw the cost of a “quality” square. I set it up and made it accurate against a Woodpecker square that serves as the reference square for the shop. It hasn’t come out of square yet. Saved myself over a hundred bucks on that one.
You are the best teacher I've ever seen on RUclips. Thang for sharing with us!
Excellent video! I've had a love/hate relationship with my average quality Stanley combo square for years. Love your ideas for making cheap combination square "lemonade" out of "lemons"! Now I can get my top-notch square and still have valuable uses for my Stanley.
For beginners: one thing not mentioned is that cheap combination squares will have a rule (the straight ruler part) that can bend really easy. Once it bends, even a little bit, it's junk; you're never going to get that thing flat again. Often, you'll take one off the shelf at the big-box store, and it will already be bent.
A good square will have a "tempered" or "hardened" steel rule (and will be labeled as such), which will not flex without lots of force; even if you can flex it a little bit, it will go right back to it's original shape once you let go.
Yep, you can see the difference in the thickness of the rule in the cheapo vs the Starrett in the beginning.
Colin... you do not know how much worked you caused me. After watching the video, I checked my working combo squares to a machinist square. Most were off a little. The one I used the most was off a lot, and my father's old German carpentry square was bang on even being 50+ years old. Next, I checked the straight edge rulers...same issue and next the 45 and 90 face of the combo square to a true straight edge...same issue. Out came my chisel sharpening stone, and I set about to make one of the combo square true in all aspects. The tough part was finding a 3/32 edge flat file. If you count the time to make it true, it is better to get a high-quality square. Now, to square up everything else.
PARABÉNS…, adoro seus vídeos, o amigo faz toda diferença no RUclips 👍
Abraço aqui do Brasil 🇧🇷
Hi from Australia
So many brands of squares around, good to learn what to look out for!
Like your onscreen personality fun to watch.
I have subscribed and will be watching a lot of your older videos.
Regards James
One Handed Maker
I purchased an inexpensive framing square once and learn fairly quickly that not only can they be cheaply made, but the measurement marks were out as well.
Had to work with a friend's super cheap square a couple of weeks ago. It used a molded plastic body and the rule was soft and had a bend to it. For what I was doing it was OK but I felt a little "dirty" while using it.... 😁
But it did teach me that if I need to check a cheap square that I needed to start by making sure the straight edge is in fact straight. To that end to aid with keeping it cheap I'd start with two finish nails in a piece of scrap plywood or MDF that are spaced just inside the ends. I'd make a knife mark along the middle then flip the straight edge over and make another knife mark. If the two are not actually one single groove then the straight edge ain't straight. But on the cheapies they can be easily bent a little to make them straight. And after that THEN the squareness can be checked.
I keep one in a drawer right next to my chop saw. I do not have a laser light showing me where the blade will cut so if it's necessary, I can draw a line where I want to cut and then bring the blade down to meet that line. Once in place, I cut. I have a very nice combination square that I use when accuracy is more important than the convenience of location.
I use machinist fixed squares. I do have a starrett adjustable that is adjustable. If you do go to a big box store check it there for square first before buying. Tape measures need to me checked.
I had a cheap tape measure in my beginning shop class. I didn't know then that an inch on it did not equal an inch on other tools. I made a candle box in which the back turned out wider than the front due to that. By the time I figured that out, it was too late to correct. We have to be sure measurements on different tools agree with each other, for sure.
Thank you, that really helps, makes perfect sense now.
Thanks for all the tips, Colin! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
An unmentioned point, cheap rules have stamped markings. Which means fat, inaccurate lines. Quality rules are engraved with much better accuracy. Plus, the surface finish is not glossy, so the numbers are much easier to read.
Stop block is genius!!!!
What is a good budget square accurate enough for furniture making and tool calibration. What din spec do I need.
Collin, how about doing a piece showing how to correct an out of square combination square. All you need is a small riffler file (you can get a set of them at Harbor Freight tor about $5). The blade of a combination square rests on two points in the head. The nut simply pulls the blade against these two points. By carefully filing one of these points and rechecking, you can get them aligned in a few minutes. Be careful if your square's head is aluminum. Aluminum can be removed rapidly. If you do take off too much , go to the other side an make a stroke or two with the file. Constantly recheck using the method you show by drawing a line perpendicular to a straight surface, then reversing the square and drawing another line.
You'll never get it accurate enough. Be realistic.
I have two or three older combination squares. One inherited, another one or two I found illegally dumped (people often throw away stuff they have no idea what is or what it is worth). I may have made an adjustment on ones I found, but they are all dead on now. I have seen all sorts of articles and videos about why we shouldn't use combo squares, but then nearly every one ot the woodworkers I see picks up a combo square when they want to mark somthing! I tend to use my machinists squares more often.
At a sheet metal brake I might have 2 or 3 set to different reaches for repetitive marking. Mine measure distance more often than squaring. My favorite is a Mayes with ground stainless scale and iron body. Used your sliding block thin strip jig to make wedge strips. 5 degrees on the block and saw set 5 degrees away from block makes 10 degree wedges.
@Wood_Work_Web As a senior on social security with beaucoup personal projects I’m not looking work!
Thanks for info! Very useful
Awesome great idea 💡 👍
You can also turn an out of square square into a diy glass scalloping tool thanks to the Happy Gilder!
Good video but though buying expensive should mean accurate you can get accurate combination squares at a moderate price too. Checking them is important as you show. I love you saying don't use an inaccurate, cheap, square when setting machines but also inferring you can use inaccurate expensive ones. Made in America means nowt to us Europeans lol. Thanks for the video.
Made in America doesn’t always mean quality.
Mostly for framing, but not cabinetry or trim work.
I wasn't as lucky. I bought 2 of differing sizes and both were out. A few minutes with a small file and as good as my machinist's square.
I'm disappointed that, instead of limping along with a misaligned combination square, you didn’t just adjust the alignment. There are several good videos showing how to do that.
Be realistic.
thanks
,a cool video keep up the great content.. Thank you……
Now make a video showing how to FIX a cheap combination square. (Some are easier to fix than others.)
You can find tune an out of square combination square.
That watch is so gangster
Jack, Fred, Allister, Marylyn, Joe, Jill, Bob, Mike, and Suzy lived happily ever after, everyone else suffered and perished.
Even the best combo squares will become inaccurate over time, with use. The metal on metal when adjusting, will wear. The cheap ones with softer metal, depending on how much you use them, are worse.
Combination squares are a mixed bag in my experience: albeit the rule "you get what you pay for" is always true, I got expensive ones which are slightly off and cheap ones which are surprisingly accurate.
Mines in pieces right now trying to shove it back together
On the other hand, i have several cheap aluminum hardware store squares that are dead on, or within half a degree... quality is Not determined by price, or material. Cheap does not equal junk. This is wood working, even cabinetry, not cnc, within a degree is far and away good enough.
Want perfection, get a machinists try square, not an adjustable square.
I think it is pronounced “stare et”
Rabone chesterman the best and only ones to get
I keep the junk ones as loaners.
Extra: Once you get a good one NEVER drop it….and don’t let the five year old nephew get at it, or lend it to the clumsy, tool destroying friendly neighbour. You pay well for precision…guard it with your life…or theirs…..
its pronounces STAIRette :p
Seems to me you could grind the casting to be perpendicular using that same method you used to prove it wasn’t accurate.
They're okay for general site type joinery, most professional woodworkers build houses not fine furniture.
There’s a difference between a woodworker and carpenter. Carpenters build houses and I totally agree with you that we can use these for most home building tasks.
I am in the process of buying a jointer/thicknesser combo. I know its better for these to be separate but I simply have no space. Maybe someone can help with what to buy. The market seems full of rubbish Chinese machines under different brand names and color. Does anyone know of a decent machine which is not thousands of dollars, but is decent? I don't want anything fancy just a simple machine.
In my experience not a single combination square is accurate, they all have "play", for a measuring tool that is a big no no, I really don't understand some engineers how they came up with these things, my eyes can get a better square cut, seriously.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I once believed they always sold square squares; wow was I wrong… Buying expensive also do not guarantee precision, I have expensive squares that are right on one side and way out of line on the other side, which makes one ruin so many projects.
No, I feel that all inaccurate tools belong in the trash, if they are not thrown there or at recycling then paint then orange or something so you do not use them by mistake.
🤕
Its hip to be square
I'm loving how annoyed he is with the shitty combo squares that he's been posting non stop about them 😆
Don't forget in crappy Chinaville, squares are round and triangles are square. Oh and by round I mean not really a circle ;-)