This was one of my favorite animes of the year. It moved quickly, had some unique art styles, dope music, and it summed everything up in 12 episodes. I don't have time to watch 400 episodes of cartoons. Sometimes, I just wanna watch a cool story quickly. This did that for me.
honestly i really loved the episode 2 twist and is part of what made Deca-Dence stand out and even more fun than it already was, i'm surprised to hear peopel actually dropped it that early???
@@b.d.a.8719 i'd say the artstyles blended serprisingly well but were distinct enough to distinguish what was earth and what was the cyborg's living areas. the style in particular reminded me alot of Gainax/trigger's work and plenty of other projects have had drastically different artstyles collide with eachother
@@b.d.a.8719 Franxx was made in collaberation with A-1 pictures, i'm talkign about the work that imaishi was involved with more like Kill La Kill, Gurren Lagann, Space Patrol Luluco, BNA, Little Witch Academia, Panty & Stocking, etc. also the drastically different artstyle for the cyborgs i thought felt faily obvious sicne they were from a completely different world and thus their physiology would be different from anything from earth
i have a few friends who are disabled who watched this show and said it spoke to them on a very personal level. they've been treated like "bugs" their entire lives, even facing those who would argue it would have been better if they'd never been allowed to be born at all, including their own families. they said they were especially happy to see when natsume's missing arm goes from being treated like a weakness she must overcome to becoming nullified or even an asset when given the proper tools she needs to succeed, which is more often than not the case for people struggling with disabilities who weren't born rich enough to access the help and tech that is often intentionally kept out of their hands, and that plays into the big reveal that the system actually secretly THRIVES on the existence of bugs and profits from them. that also rings true in the real world, too. a lot of industries would collapse if they couldn't hold people down to the impossible standards they themselves set for the rest of us. even the able bodied ones that seemingly fit in well (aka the cyborgs) are being held back from their full potential in ways they can't even imagine. yeah it has its flaws, but i think it told the story it needed to tell better than most others i've seen trying to tackle the same issues. in the end, there IS a way for everyone to live together without suffering, but we have to change the entire system, first. that feels like an impossible goal, but if everyone works together and recognizes the humanity in everyone, then it can be done. maybe that's too much of a sunshine-and-rainbows ending for you, but i think a story about hope in the face of overwhelming odds is actually WAY edgier these days than the tragedies we tend to expect. especially this year, jfc.
10:53 The disdain by which the reviewer says "conveniently" shows his lack of understanding of the show. The Gadoll are genetically engineered creatures who were designed, by Solid Quake, to generate those anti-gravity fields. Why? Because they were making a real-life video game! The whole draw of the fictional game Deca-Dence is that users get to experience three-dimensional real-time combat where dying means losing your 'character' forever. It was designed to be exciting and fun! Complaining that the anti-gravity field is 'convenient' is like going to a theme park and saying "Oh, they have roller coasters? HOW CONVENIENT!" and scoffing with disdain.
"Instead of gas powered maneuvering equipment these monsters conveniently create anti gravity fields around them that humans and gears utilize for aerial combat. None of these Titan similarities..."
He's not saying it doesn't make sense in the universe, he's saying that the anti-gravity field is convenient because it allows the combat to work the way it does in Attack on Titan.
@@samaustin8690 Fighting with grappling hooks and fighitng in zero gravity are completely different. Nobody looks at the Ender's Game's battle room fights and goes "Wow, just like Spider-Man!" Furthermore, if anything Deca-Dence's zero gravity combat makes way more sense, given that the technology is extremely advanced and the Gadoll were genetically engineered to be fun enemies to fight, to make the system entertaining and to have players coming back for more. Meanwhile vertical maneuver gear from AoT makes no sense, given that their society's technology level is mid-18th-century at best - they still use flintlock guns, while the percussion lock firearm was invented in 1805. Yet somehow they use gas to power their equipment when gas wasn't used as fuel until around the same time, and gas engines weren't around until the end of the 19th century - and those were huge. Miniaturized high-powered motors powerful to eject and winch back cables weren't possible with that level of technology. Hell, vertical maneuvering gear would be hard to make today, especially in a way that was usable and didn't snap the user's neck from the sudden changes in G-force.
@@ObsidianKnight90They attempt to explain it by saying it's actually a magical super-mineral that titans genereated hundreds of years ago (for some reason). The big problem with manoeuvre gear is that it would instantly shatter a user's spine. Either way, it's much less believable than what is shown in Deca-Dence.
I have a feeling this comment was written really quickly by famous comment guy to agree with the narrative of the youtuber that made this video. The show was great as is. It was really cool and well made.
Deca Dance is the definition of a 7/10 show. It's a fun ride, but nothing amazing. If some fans think it's a masterpiece, more power to them because everything is a masterpiece to someone.
until she gets a good one and then all of a sudden her disability does'nt existe anymore so what was the point of starting out with that if there just gonna write it out of the story anyway?
0:00 Potential -> Fell Flat ? 1:46 🚂 🛑? 3:11 Our Hero and Her Journey 4:25 _The Twist_ • It was not an easy turn to make 6:54 Why ???? 7:22 The New Understanding of The World 9:07 Interpretation 10:39 (1) Survival Apocalypse + (2) Cyber World (Sounds like Danganronpa) 15:48 Pop-Culture Reference 18:47 Funimation
I don't know anywhere else but over on r/anime it's one of the most anticipated weekly shows. It never really "fell off" at least within my circle and the communities I interact with.
I personally really liked Deca-Dence. Yes, the ending could have been a bit better as it definitely feels rushed and may have benefited from a full 24 episode count. I also thought a lot of the supporting characters were very forgettable. But it is easily the best original anime of the summer and grabbed my attention atleast until the final episode. It gets an 7/10 for me.
I think the ending makes sense. The story was focusing on the humans and their issues not the cyborgs. Yeah, they didn't talk about the cyborgs' society but every step of the way the story reinforces that the humans are the focus point. I don't think it's fair to say this anime was done wrong because you didn't like what the point was.
Honestly I just enjoyed it a lot, i wasn't thinking too hard about all the tiny details and it was a fun ride. Also you questioned what the cyborgs "real" job is other than playing deca-dence, but didn't the show say something like when the cyborgs are "born" they are put into different sectors for the company? (like you said, they are property of the company). E.g. Jill was put on the developing team or something like that for deca-dence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here and am just clowning myself and imagining all of this lol
I think you can still enjoy the anime without having to understand the worldbuilding which... yeah, they try, but vast swathes of robot society are left blank. But I think that's okay? The whole story is focused around Deca-dence and the pro gamer lifestyle, so focusing on that seems fine
Not to mention that the cyborgs need that juice like a battery for their bodies. They farm those stuff from the Gadolls that the company created in order to keep the system going. So its not just a game for them but an attempt to keep their society going
Throughout this video, at many of your points, my reaction was often 'so what?' or 'why does that matter?'. Like the jobs of the cyborgs or how their society functions... why does that matter for us to know? The story wasn't about that. It wasn't necessary for the story to make sense. What we needed to know was 'cyborgs see and use/treat real humans as NPCs in a game in a domed off part of the earth and the higher ups don't like bugs'. That was all that was necessary to understand the story they were trying to tell. And that they did show. There was no reason for us to know any of the other things. It'd have been interesting, but irrelevant. Not every show has to have a complex narrative with a deeper meaning. This show certainly didn't have that, but I never got the idea that it was trying to get there. Also, not sure why you're seeing it as an isekai?
I think it's a preference in story telling. Some enjoy very thorough and detailed world building, others prioritize character development while some want detailed designs and art. It not really about whether the story has deeper meaning (which I would argue every story has) but more if that caters to your tastes.
Obligatory comment since I had mixed feelings about this review so unfortunately it wont get a like or dislike. I agreed with a lot of your points, but I also feel that you over analyzed a type of series that was meant to be a fun ride with surface level conflict. Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think you mentioned Kaburagi's development. Kaburagi's growth was actually pretty amazing to see. Sure, he had the mentor label, but IMO he learned ALOT more from Natsume than she ever learned from him. Changing your whole way/outlook on life after so many years couldn't have been easy. I don't think this is the best anime of the year, but it is one of the better anime of the year. I also give it extra points for not being an adaption. Studios are too scared to take chances anymore, so something original was very welcome to see. You may suggest streaming it, but I will definitely being buying this series. Seems like something I would go back to irregularly just for the fun ride despite knowing everything that happens. Also, this is one I feel is a good 'Intro to anime' series for anyone looking to get into it. Not to deep, not to gory, just the right amount of fun, and not dauntingly long (although I do think the series would have been improved significantly with more episodes, but due to it being an original they probably didn't want to take that chance since supporting an original work is a risky endeavor as it is).
@@rangoononline Recently the ones I have been paying attention to are Elaina the wandering witch, Talentless Nana, By the Grace of the Gods, and I forget the name, but that new anime by Key.
I do agree with your points, but I do feel that you dislike the wasted potential more than it really affects the quality of it. I never really felt confused about what's going on, because anything that wasn't really explained generally wasn't really part of what was going on, so I didn't feel it necessary. I do think it being only 12 episodes hurt it at least a little bit, because I'm not sure if all of the wasted potential could've been properly utilized in just 12, but only at a minor level. I think the show wasn't anything amazing, but it definitely felt to me like the amount of crap you gave it for its flaws was a bit more than it deserved.
I agree. It seems disappointment arises from people who wanted relevance in irrelevant aspects of this show... which isn't really the show's fault, it's the viewer's expectation's fault.
I agree. His complaints kinda remind me of George R. R. Martin criticizing Tolkien for not going into greater detail about Aragon's tax policies or what he'd do in times of flood or famine. Tolkien didn't write about that stuff because it didn't matter for the story he was telling, just as the elements that aren't explained in Deca-Dence weren't relevant for the story they wanted to tell.
I think your criticisms of Decadence validate its very purpose, being a metacommentary on the current deplorable state of society (or where it's headed). I found myself saying "Yeah that's the point" to most of what you had to say. For example, all of this being done for the purposes of... entertainment and money? Yes, exactly, that's how the megacorps work. I was hoping to see a deeper analysis of the symbols in this story. The things you dislike are the very elements that make this show great in my eyes. I can't imagine I'm the only one who sees it this way, right?
You very much aren't. The whole point of the cyborg society was that they were all cogs in a machine that didn't actually have any goals outside of maintaining itself, generating revenue, and then hoarding it. Their lives are completely meaningless and entirely revolve around a cycle of work and entertainment consumption. They represent the height of alienation under capitalism. Hell, Kaburagi felt his life was so devoid of any actual meaning he was literally just waiting until he "starved" to death until he finally met Natsume. The things GR suggested, like exploring the ethics of the System owning the cyborgs or seeing their day-jobs were completely irrelevant to the show's message. Who cares what they do for a living, it is building up to nothing just like everything else in their world. Whether they are property of the system or "free" they are still beholdened to its rules and must either fall in line or be destroyed.
I wanted to say that I enjoyed decadence, but despite that, I agreed with all of the points mentioned in this video. There were things that when I watched didn't quite make sense, or things that I wished were further expanded upon, but I still really liked watching deca-dence. I enjoyed it because of the characters. Well, I say characters, but really I only mean the two main characters: Kaburagi and Natsume. While not an incredibly unique dynamic, I loved watching these two affect one another and slowly grow in their own ways. I enjoyed watching these characters pulling each other up from their lows with the very thing that they learned from each other. I liked how despite Kaburagi being Natsume's mentor, we get to see more of how he has learned from Natsume. That, and me relating to both characters somewhat in that Kaburagi was feeling purposeless and lost within the first few episodes, and Natsume having a seemingly unachievable dream. This later changed within the coming episodes though. It's probably something I could've found in other shows as well, but it's the thing that stood out most to me about deca-dence.
im glad you made this video, i had dropped Deca after about 5 or 6 episodes after like seriously falling in love with the first episode and i couldnt really put into words why i stopped or had no motivation to finish it
Melon Lord The worldbuilding was a lot better than GR gave it credit for, imo. I feel like he was focusing on details that didn't matter for the overall point of the show.
@@JaimeNyx15 Well it was interesting world building at least. I'm not that sure if the profit thing was as pronounced as GR said it was. I don't really remember it that way. I watched it in German sub, though so it might just be a slightly different focus of the teanslater. Apart from that his points are valid. I just don't care as much. I mean people have different priorities when it comes to what makes a good story.
There was ONE plot point that ran counter to the “everything ends happy cuz that’s the way it should be” approach: SPOILER AHEAD! Cute mascot character Pipe gets dead & stays dead 😭
@@DaxStrife1984 gotta love how many games/media, feature little bean people doing horrible things to each other recently. It’s pretty sus if you ask me.
I disagree with many of your points, and your general attitude against the show in general. I can't organize my thoughts into such a coherent essay as you do, but I do have one core point I want to drive home. THIS IS NOT AN ISEKAI. It's not even isekai-adjacent. Firstly (some) characters are free to "travel" between the "worlds", and secondly one of the two worlds is objectively more true, more correct, and more important. The dynamic of "this is risky for one person but no danger at all for the other" is key to this. And make no mistake, Natsume is definitely at risk. The "system" only cares about ensuring the continued existence of humanity as a whole, it does not care about individuals at all. I would think of this more of a "first contact with alien civilization" kind of story before I thought of it as an isekai story. It would indeed be interesting to see more of the cyborg society, to see some interesting free will based plot thread going on there, or to see in more detail how we moved from "present day" to this odd separation of cyborgs vs humans as it is shown. But the story didn't chase those threads because it didn't need to, they weren't relevant to the story of Natsume finding out the truth of the world & overthrowing that truth. And, as far as the "system" not having any "teeth" and backing down the moment it confronts Kaburagi... I understood that scene to be, the system making an extremely practical and machine-like analysis of "it's basically futile to try, I don't understand why you are trying at all, giving up would be the logical choice, oh you're not giving up, well it doesn't actually hurt me if you attempt this, and in the remote chance that you actually succeed it would greatly benefit me, so go ahead". I'm sorry the show didn't explicitly spell it out for you.
Well said. Many in the community want anime to have each minute detail explained to them and if it isn't, it's deemed bad world building. Somethings are meant to be implicit and are intentionally left open to interpretation
@@b.d.a.8719 Did you even read the stuff before the part you quoted? What's Natsume getting told the truth of the world got to do with the explanation of the scene of The System letting Kaburagi gain control of the Deca-dence? Learn how to use relevant quotes or don't go into a non-sequitur of what you quoted.
@@b.d.a.8719 See, I read the "it" part of what you quoted to be directly referring to the scene between The System and Kaburagi, which you skipped entirely to focus instead on the paragraphs that are far from and clearly separated from the quoted part. Thus the non-sequitur. Use a relevant quote next time if you're going to bother quoting at all. Note that I'm not even touching on the rest of your comment regarding good story writing because I'm not going against what you're saying about that. My only concern is what I wrote above and in my previous comment regarding your use of that quote.
This is... So weird. I don't really feel like vehemently arguing against any of the points you're trying to make... But my experience has been SO DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. I HAD SO MUCH FUN WATCHING. It's really surprising that you'd hate the show this much.
GR seems to be the kinda person who gets hyper analytical about tight storytelling and stuff, between this and thinking Monster is perfect it makes sense(don’t get me wrong I really liked monster too, but arguably for different reasons). I can also see him not liking FLCL either, because well the writing at that simple surface level is awful, but clearly that’s not what it’s about. Same applies for Deca-Dence.
@@jackmoose1238 It's not that, OP just expressed that it's weird that they can't really disagree with anything being said and yet, they still had a lot of fun watching it. The point wasn't that they had different opinions in the end. It was my case too. I can't disagree with anything said in the video, yet my experience was clearly very different. I think in my case, it'll be a case of "It could have been a wonderful anime, but it ended up being just a missed opportunity that was still enjoyable".
Then perhaps are the Cyborgs simply following Rule #55? "Take joy from profit, and profit from joy." The Rules of Acquisition allow so many things to be understood 😂
I am proud to say that I am among those that watched Deca-Dence from beginning to end and I enjoyed it. So much so that to me it's already best anime of this year. That's right, I don't agree with you at all when it comes to this anime.
GR: Decadence combines so many disparate elements! Look at how they all interact. Isn't this such a clusterfuck? Me: No??? I paid attention? And let fan theories pick up the gaps which weren't essential to the main story? It's ok you didn't like it. By the end of the first three episodes I was promised a father-daughter adventure in a science-fiction setting, with themes revolving around corporatism. Your video doesn't really communicate what YOU went into the show expecting, only that you didn't get it.
@Microinsurgent Warzone Granted, but these weren't fan theories so much as basic inference. The "weren't Essential to the main story" was the important bit. The telling of the actual story was fine, it's the worldbuilding they offloaded to the viewer.
Ok, so really quickly: You not understanding what the Cyborgs do is just you being really purposefully dense. The entire Sanitation Work aspect of breaking down the shit, which is then processed into oxyone, which is then stuffed up the cyborg's rears is an exact description of what the cyborgs do literally, and in regards to the other cyborgs figuratively. Every single one of the cyborgs is doing exactly that, and they get higher grade Oxyone depending on the supposed "merit" of their work, which seems to be measured in how much entertainment they can provide, how much Oxyone they can harvest, or how efficient they are at ridding the system of bugs. Not to mention the Gadall(sp?) engineers, the administrators of Deca-Dence, the security drones, receptionists, shop workers, etc. etc. etc. The entirety of Deca-dence is cyborg labour. They changed the established setting of the Isekai and made it real life instead of digital to lend weight to the original setup, I.E. humanity fighting for survival. Humanity is still fighting for survival and to all the tankers, it is still reality. I thought this was a really interesting take on the isekai, because it achieves the same level of weight to the story as say, SAO, but can selectively choose which characters that weight applies to. It shows a startling amount of dissonance between classes, and that clear comparison of class structures is extremely relevant today. Take for example Natsumi's confrontation with the Admin who kills Kabu. To HER, Kabu is dead. Even as he loads a new character, she has to deal with the grief of losing him in that moment. And it's the same with her knowing that it's a game while the rest of the tankers don't. That's Sci-Fi at it's best. Exploring the emotional and practical ramifications of technology and society. Her sudden dysphoria over whether or not she wished she could forget all that she just learned was and is amazing. As for why this system was set up in the first place, it was originally for profit. Then the system evolved to attempt to rid itself of bugs. In order to do this, it created a cycle that is self contained. They grow the monsters, the monsters contain the Oxyone, the gears fight the Oxyone for sport and entertainment and work, and the tankers provide set dressing. The point is to view the world from a tanker and then cyborg perspective. You'll also note that many of the cyborgs have no clue why they're there in the first place and it's hinted there is a group even higher than the cyborgs. They know nothing more about the why's than we do. And guess what? The story works perfectly well with all of that in there. If your story doesn't interact with the characters who have answers to questions, then ITS OK TO NOT ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. Sometimes, answers are above your pay grade, and the pay grade of everyone you know. So yeah, I think you're being really pretentious here without really taking the time to see that you're expecting sci-fi anime series to answer any and all questions that in no way add to the story. Would it actually benefit you to "know what the cyborgs do"? No, that is not necessary to any of the plot points. Hints of the underlying world are there throughout the series, like where avatars are stored, how much a tanker house costs, what they earn, what they eat, and everything else. And for the love of God, stop being so utterly pretentious about it.
I fucking loved this anime and I looked forward to watching it every week almost as much as Re:Zero and that says a lot. At first I wasn't that impressed with the twist but I ended up thinking it was incredible in the end. This is a classic case of over analyzing things and taking the fun out of everything to try and sound smart. "It didn't do what I wanted it to do and cover these deep and dark intellectual and political taking points so NYAAAAAA!" You sound like Mother's Basement.
Honestly i think they did a really good job with the twist because it makes you mentally evaluate the life of the characters by tricking you into thinking it a video game you feel their lives are replaceable but then changing it shows how cruel that concept of "deleting a bug" can be. Would you delete Pipe or Natsume? To me the core concept of the anime was about "embracing your weakness as your strength". They explore this through Kabu and Natsume, Natsume's arm and the limit break as well. When you enable the limit breaker, you are embracing weakness to gain strength. Natsume turned her weakness into a weapon. When Kabu opened his heart to a "bug" and he gain the strength to change the world.
Not a fan of this take. This show was solid. So many of the world-building nitpicks GR had were just... not... actual problems? They either explain a lot of this stuff in the show itself in a perfectly clear way, or they didn't need to in order to hold up the show's central conceit. I just don't give a crap about the day jobs of people that aren't Kaburagi. The cyborg world of Deca-Dence clearly establishes itself as pointless and hollow, perpetuating itself only to keep the system going rather than to do anything meaningful because it's a post-industrial capitalist dystopia. It exists for the sake of itself, and that's its greatest flaw that the characters need to correct. They're basically the space ship from Wall-E if it had turned around and, instead of trying to make the world better, just nihilistically strip-mined the remains of Earth for entertainment, the only currency people cared about anymore. I don't need to know the day jobs of the fat couple that Wall-E and Eve meet in the third act of the movie because it doesn't matter; their lives are literally pointless up to this point, and it's the same for every other cyborg in Deca-Dence. And the fact that the show was an Isekai taking place in a post-apocalyptic, Attack on Titan-esque Earth shone a light on just how bleak finding entertainment and escapism in the troubles of societies living on the edge of destruction truly is. I love that Deca-Dence makes humanity into the NPC role and otherizes the "player characters" by making them into cartoonish, brightly colored robots because it shows how the NPC role demeans and takes power away from people in that position, even though the last vestiges of humanity are really who should matter in this scenario. Yes, the stakes never ended up being that high for the human characters because none of the actual characters we cared about died in battle or as a result of bug-fixing, and that's a legit flaw in the show, but the fact that humanity could be wiped out from sheer corporate negligence was frighteningly relatable, and they carried that idea all the way to the end. But even though the stakes could have been higher, just as I didn't need to see the humans in Wall-E going through the power struggles and potential back-sliding involved with rebuilding civilization, I didn't need to see the same stuff here, so the tied-up ending didn't bother me either. Aside from that, I liked plenty of the characters, the fights were awesome, and the world was engaging. The show could've been deeper, but it was perfectly fine for a 12-episode series. It said what it wanted to say, I grokked it, and I moved on. Sounds like a success to me. So calling it a "trainwreck" and saying that you only watched it "out of morbid curiosity" when it did everything it set out to do and had a lot of fun doing it is just a bad-faith criticism. Sorry you didn't enjoy it, GR, but I feel like you might have just nit-picked yourself into that frame of mind rather than giving the show a fair shot. This "post-mortem" came off as just unjustifiably snide, and I expected better. Though, if nothing else, I'm glad you're bringing the show the attention you only barely think it deserves.
Just finished the show today after binging it over the course of 3 days and came to this video to see other opinions on it. I was so confused when he started with calling it a trainwreck, and pretty much entirely agree with your take on it. The show was concise and to the point, pretty much all of GR's complaints seem to stem from some strange desire to draw it out to explore irrelevant aspects of its world (I would love to see them explored in a sequel or spin-off of course, but they were not necessary for this story). The stakes felt pretty high to me. We are explicitly shown that the humans are essentially props, with many dying just to "spice up the storyline" of the game. It was made explicitly clear that they were expendable and completely at the whims of a system that didn't care about them. Not only that, but any of them that figured out what was actually going on could be killed remotely and instantly. It felt very bleak, despite the show having a hopeful tone overall.
@@waitthisischinaohgodohfuck163 not really...darling in the franxx was shit in the ending arc...if we exclude that then probably but we can't do that...whereas deca dence went with constant pacing and no shitty arc...tbh the pacing in the anime felt like one of the best i've ever seen..summed up almost perfectly in 12 episodes
Outside of the plot hole about Pipe disappearing despite bugs supposedly not disappearing after the characters got to the macguffin, I liked deca-dence cause I kinda need a happy ending to a series in 2020.
The switch killed all gadoll. It was shown as a chip inside each one. Pipe still has this chip, the bug about him is that he is not hostile, so there was no reason for him not to disappear. The reason the one gadoll existed was that one striving for live reproduced inside one of the gears, a natural bird had no chip to cause disintegration.
As someone who actually really liked Deca-Dence the whole way through, I think the factor driving my enjoyment is this blissful hopelessness. As you said, there was no meaningful conflict or any actual danger. Nothing actually changed, if you think about it. *SPOILERS FROM HERE* The series shows Kaburagi and Natsume working so hard to overturn the system and in the end? Nothing actually changes, the system just adapts as a different game. Yeah, that could be seen and a sunshine and rainbows result, but behind it there's this existential knowledge that all of their efforts were pretty much in vain for the big picture. I don't know if that's what the writers were going for, but I really enjoyed this hidden nihilism of it all.
From Arcada's gripes i somehow got the impression that Deca-Dence is superbly Meta story. That the point of it all is more decadence of current anime stories. Viewer reactions and expectations (subversions and adherences to the clishe) are part of this decadence. Aditional meta layer if you will. Does this interpretation clash or mesh with your "hopless" interpretation?
YES PREACH To me Deca-Dence was a lot about existentialism/absurdism, and how Natsume and some other characters cope with it. If you look at it through that lens, suddenly episode 5 6 and 7 are very thoughtful pieces on absurdism and how to deal with it
To me it felt like the show was conveying the idea of capitalist realism. The system is explicitly operating like a mega corporation, even in the ending we see that it is still using humanity as a prop for its entertainment media conglomerate, just under a different genre of game. Capitalism subsumes all critiques into itself. Even when attempting to fight the system, you end up reinforcing it instead.
The twists at the beginning of the series imo is the best wtfs of the show, and that imho was great about the show, just hoped it would've kept giving us them while still making it make sense.
There’s nothing wrong with having a happy ending. And, you can tell a complete story in 12ish episodes. But as he discussed, it just rings a bit hallow.
The biggest problem with this series was it tried to be too big for its britches AKA it overestimated the stupidity of the fanbase story truly does matter they tried to reach out to too much of an audience instead of focusing upon its actual audience & definitely didn't help that the material was gutted to the point from being mature status to PG status
Just finished the last episode of Deca-Dence, and then watched this video. I don't really disagree with anything that was said....still enjoyed the heck out of Decadence though :D
I think the setting being too complicated or not being explained comes from the show not having enough episodes or not pacing itself well. Imo, the show needed atleast 24 episodes, if not more. I could see the story beats happening right there, it's just that there wasn't any build up to it for those story beats to properly work. A great example of this is the very beginning of the show. When it shows her fathers death(and a possible hint at the twist). Had there been more time, that entire scene could've been much better. Same goes for the parts where she was just on cleaning duty. Had they had enough time, we could've spent atleast a whole episode just hanging out there & getting introduced to the characters. The twist would've been really great had it happened in episode 3 or 4 instead as well. And pretty much everything that comes after just felt really empty because of that. It's like if you compress the entirety of, say, Eureka 7 or Gurren Lagann or Shinsekai Yori into just 12 episodes. It doesn't work. They would have to cut alot of the meat of it just to fit it in those 12 episodes without it feeling too rushed. They should've cut the second half of the show, and only did the first half but in 12 episodes. And then just hope for a possible second season for the second half. So TL;DR is that whole problem of the setting being too complicated wouldn't be a problem if they paced it better or had more episodes. Made in Abyss did this very well; with it's first 3 episodes being solely about it's society & the basic concepts of it's setting, which in alot of ways, can be just as complicated as Deca-Dence's setting. But Made in Abyss(among others like Steins;Gate & even Vinland Saga) does it well because it paced itself better & made sure it took it's time with it. Something that Deca-Dence doesn't do.
Personally I thought the show was pretty strong, but pacing was definitely the weak link. The fact that Natsune was throwing up due to how difficult the Zero-G combat system was in one episode and one of humanity's strongest fighters the next was fine from a narrative standpoint but it was a real shame not to be able to see that progression
@@JackRackam Yeah. There's a reason why Vinland Saga took 5 episodes before it's story actually started. And why Steins;Gate basically took 12 episodes before its plot really began. I could see so easily just how good this show could've been each episode and each scene I see. But I just didn't feel anything about anything at all because there just wasn't any meat to it. I felt like I was reading a Wikipedia summary of a book, rather than reading the book itself. I can still understand why people think it's a strong show though. The ideas were great and the story beats were there & they were perfect. Its just that it wasn't executed very well; as in, just not executed *at all*.
I think I got a different impression from the twist. I felt that this was a world that was built to protect the human world, but after their downfall, it took on a life of its own based on the rules that were programmed into it, perhaps somewhat like Tron. It definitely did get a bit to Matrixy in one episode, but I did still enjoy it. Although I did hope there would be more explanation on how these two worlds became as they were, perhaps confirming or denying my initial thoughts on it.
15:48 on a serious note you should chekc out some of the later seasons of Sgt. Frog that were never dubbed, they do a good job at makign cutesy mascots look badass
Fair points. Episode 2 threw me for a loop, and I had to check I was still watching the same show three times. But, it was still a fun watch while it lasted.
I think some people just don't like artistic vision. It makes them uncomfortable. There really wasn't a BIG TWIST or anything. It was a pretty normal sci-fi story.
You are wrong about character mortality. The actual humans - including Natsume and her friends - can actually die. For them, it is truly a post-apocalyptic survival story.
It honestly sounds like you drove yourself crazy trying to over analyze everything and expected this show to take an "Attack on Titan" deep government conspiracy with its story. I rather enjoyed watching Natsume and Kaburagis story/development which you seem to hardly talk about.
I understood it this way: there are basically three groups in Deca-Dence. The humans - the npcs, the administrators/heroes who are also basically npcs and then the players who are distinct from the heroes even though the do the same thing. The series does not delve into what the players actually do outside of the game. But the characters the series does follow are not the usual players. That one I am quite certain of.
Honestly was pretty cucked by the show... It had so much potential and the human cast and design were on point. Like I serioulsy love the character designs of said singer slash character designer, she's got same feel as the Eureka Seven character designer, though really didn't jibe with Listeners. World building and concept wise... they had so many great ideas and just couldn't land it...
Well I personally didn't even notice most of the issues you mentioned. It was a fun and I'd even say underrated show, that had some of the best visuals of any show so far this year (yes GoH for example had fire animation but the other visual aspects were sometimes lacking). I'd say my biggest issue was the final episode, but up to that point it was a great watch.
I can't help but think that the twist we all thought was so good months ago is ultimately what undid the show if it had just stuck with the premise it setup in episode 1 and not had any twist it probably would have been a better show that not only would have been entertaining but also had something so say that was worth hearing
This had a lot of potential. Themes of determinism were prevalent, but the anime never went deeper into such themes. It was all surface level that ended up being a rather generic action anime.
This is on my watch list and plan to watch it later. Don't spoil anything but I think it would be interesting if Natsume ended up joining the cyborg society it would certainly be interesting since she's already lost an arm and ended up with cybernetic one. Maybe the story isn't that fantastic but I can certainly see someone watching this anime and being inspired to use some elements better. For example, how about an anime where the main character is introduced like in this one but in the second episode it is revealed that they are an NPC in a virtual world that eventually escapes to the real world. Ya, something like that.
I always forget to subscribe after watching your videos, despite really liking them. Well, that's fixed. Anyway, I'm a bit late to the party but I generally agree with your points. While I got a lot of enjoyment out of the series, it also frustrated me with how the writers seemed to have *started* designing an interesting premise and then just stopped at the surface level. That and dropping the ball on the final fight (releasing a limiter lets you *use* more energy, it doesn't *conjure it out of nothing* you trope-blinded idiots). Had the series been just one or two episodes longer pretty much every issue could have been fixed, but even with the current length I think they could have squeezed in a couple of sentences and images to add enough information that the premise made actual sense.
For an anime original, it was a pretty good (Kabaneri flashbacks) & also spoiler free. Problem is it peaked too early. Ep 2 opened up a wide range of opportunities, but unfortunately plot followed the most restrictive & cliche route. But overall was a fun experience, worth a watch.
Deca-dence was above average, which made it stand out like a beacon of light in the Summer 2020 season. Apart from Re:Zero, there was no anime to watch. It was an utter drought.
@@ADTillion Oregairu final season was terribly bland and I hated it. No Guns Life I never tried, people who's opinions I trust told me not to waste my time on it.
Not really. DITF had better highs than Decadence and had a much more focused cast of characters. Even with the huge screwups in the last quarter of DITF, it's not as bad as a rushed change of heart of the Cyborgs that just stop playing the game and say whatever just to end the story
The hardships of Natsume were kinda realistic for this society they live. most people won't want to adventure out and risk their lives, they will want to settle down and be happy with how their lives are going. Thats why her friend settled for what they had. And became uninspired by a life that much more than what they had. I really wish that they did a bit more focus on the humans becasue Natsume deserves more.
Natsume got robbed her deserved spotlight. She carried those initial moments in the show. Not that Kaburagi is a bad character, he's just not as enjoyable to watch as Natsume was.
@@GlassReflection Natsume had so much more potential. I agree Natsume more enjoyable in my opinion (I agree also about Kaburagi) but if you think about it she hold the ideals we perceived the show was about before the twist. Which then makes her more relatable to the audience. They could have taken the show many different directions while still telling the same tale, but changing the focuses and how lore is persented. This could have made for a more enjoyable show to those who didn't like the first 4 episodes.
After the middle of the series it did start to drag and I really had to force myself to finish it only because I really liked the characters. However I'd say you perfectly described the issues I felt the series had but didn't know how to put into words.
6:54 As much as I love fiction and post-apoc, this is my problem with most post-apoc - by the end of a narrative arc, we should find out at least a bit of the HOW and WHY things are the way they are now. The pieces should fit together, there should be internal logic. If you're going to flashback and plot-twist (like in Westworld) constantly then honestly I couldn't give a fuck. Nothing matters because everything can be overwritten in future episodes.
Not really to counter what you said but why weren't you talking about these problems in Made in Abyss? Where was this side/version of you when you were reviewing MiA? Did everyone just selectively choose to not look at the flaws of MiA's universe? Since episode 1, i get that they're just orphans and some are treated poorly, but sending kids to -work- die? How can/does a society like that work at all? Are there no more safe jobs for kids to do? We even saw some lazy bums in the show yet even though the abyss is said to contain treasures, nobody decided it was better to give the hobos the chance to risk their life for the treasures instead of the kids? And what's in the hole that she's in a hurry to go down there for? Can't she at least wait until she's a teen/adult? If she doesn't have a motivation to go down into the hole, doesn't that mean the show's main protagonist is just a plot device?(Sorry i'm not sure if i'm using this phrase properly) (Some)Spoiler warning: Now to the actual counter to some of your arguments: Nobody at the present time can foresee exactly how A.I. is going to change/evolve in the future. All we know is that the world in Deca-Dence is a dystopia therefore something *buggy* must've happened in the past and caused the world to end up the way it did since episode 1. The System is, in my interpretation, just an A.I., and if something *bugged* with the A.I. in their past that caused it to learn that (profits/productivity = success) or something, like idk, maybe modern day capitalism?(i mean you're practically spelling it out when you mentioned how their people are just properties. Just look at how RUclips's "System" a.k.a. algorithm treats its own content creators. i thought you'd know this since you're one of them) Then it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that their world could be our reality one day. The System may have backed down from Kaburagi because it conceded after considering that its own *bug-filled* history has led to ITS OWN EXISTENCE in the first place. In our world, our history includes some *bugs* a.k.a. mistakes(or basically, something unintentional) has led to the advancement of our technology. i can't remember other ones right now except "George Dantzig ". Go look him up on wikipedia or something. i thought that the isekai thing is also not something that "falls apart", but rather another plot twist that it's not actually an isekai in the first place and nobody told you to assume it's an isekai as well. Yes, i agree on some points you made but i just think there are some things you didn't even consider.
MIA Spoilers Thing is Made in Abyss explained the things you mentioned. The orphans are treated poorly yes, but they are not send to die. They were given a certain depth in the first layer and were reminded not to go deeper then that. And within the depth they were supposed to go, there wasn´t anything dangerous. The Crimson Splitjaw being the exeption, not sure why it went up that far. Could be because of Regs backstory or it trying to expand it´s hunting grounds (like the insects from layer 5 that went into 4). There could be better jobs for the children, work condition wise. But more profitable for the orphanage or the town as a whole? A town with citizens for whom the Abyss has an almost religious importance? Basically society just works normally, except for those whom no one cares about (the orphans). After all we haven´t seen one child being send into the abyss aside from the orphans. So not that much different from reality really, it´s basically like child labour in the real world. With concern for the homeless guys, I think that would be just a waste of resources. Without training and equipment they would just die for nothing. Even worse if you just equipe them without training, basically just throwing your money into the hole. Just sending them off to the first layer costs more then the children in upkeep for the same gain, the more valuable stuff is further below but would just be suicide . And that is if they even want to go down there. Even among the orphanage kids, who go down daily, only riko wanted to go into the deeper layers. And she´s basically an endearing nutcase (so a perfect white whistle candidate, you have to be crazy or out of options if you to want to go down that hole). Sure she has knowledge but without Reg (who is a walking, legendary, almost indestructible artifact wich can basically just burn things out of existence) she would´ve been dead on the bottom of layer 1 or the beginning of layer 2. The last point is pretty self explanatory. The whole running away from the orphanage deal was kicked off by her being informed that her mother has died and shortly after that, being shown a letter among recovered items belonging to her mother that says that she will be waiting for her on the bottom of the abyss. The bottom of a place filled to the brim with stuff trying to kill you, with an additional decompression sickness curse which also warps your depiction of time. As of now I have no clue if her mother is still alive, but I´m pretty sure she would kick the bucket long before riko would be even close to growing up.
@@OmegaMK-wl3wr Thank you. i guess there are some things i didn't consider about Made in Abyss. Also, i guess i confused one of the scenes in that show and thought she was still alive. i guess i now have an excuse to watch the movies, so thanks again!
@@jazy921 No problem. After all what I wrote is just how I see things. I personally like MIA, but can understand people who don´t like it. Also need to watch the movie (the non recap one). Already read the manga, but curious how it turned out as an animation.
An old writing adage is that if something is off about the story, one may be writing it from the wrong character's perspective. And while Kaburagi is cool, I think the story would have been told much better from Natsume's perspective. It would have given us a chance to see it as a mystery, to start piecing things together as it is revealed and maybe feel the world a bit more. Hell , I could see how Kaburagi constantly disappearing could even be seen as suspicious. That would be interesting.
I’m waiting for Mother’s Basement to show up with his, “um, ACTUALLY” retort. Did his stance change on this show? He was praising it to high heaven at the start, but I haven’t followed him since his infamous “Basement Order” video, so I don’t know where he’s at right now.
@@Sara3346 it’s a whole ordeal. I can’t recall it exactly, but I don’t want you to sit through the whole video either. So it is: Diamond Is Unbreakable, Stardust Crusaders, Golden Wind, Phantom Blood, Battle Tendency, Battle in Egypt, Stone Ocean (manga).
May I be so bold as to give the term to what you describe as flashes of seasonal anime as Cherry Bomb anime or "Chybom" or whatever other combination you might come up with.
Hearing the synopsis feels like NUT was trying to make their own version of Youjo Senki/Saga of Tanya the Evil. More so with the second episode having a twist that re contextualizes the world and the protagonist's actions going forward.
You said that we never learn about the world because it doesn't matter to the plot... but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. The cyborg's world is essentially in the last dregs of late-stage capitalism and we're seeing it through the eyes of Kaburagi, someone that works for the system while also hoping for the sweet release of death. The rest of the world doesn't matter because it doesn't matter for Kaburagi, whose sole goal by episode 3 is making sure his surrogate daughter keeps living because he's got nothing better to do. When Natsume expresses her fear that her actions won't have any impact on the future of the world later on, Kaburagi chooses to destroy the system in its entirety so that she can live in a better world. Since the system is doomed to collapse at the end, there's little point to deciphering what it was doing in the first place. Episodes 2 and 3 make it clear that the system is awful when we see that cheaters are executed by the admins; if Deca-Dence wasn't the only thing keeping society together, that wouldn't happen. The things we don't see aren't important because what we have is enough to establish that something is fucked up. The system isn't a placeholder enemy with no fangs; it's been in absolute control for so long that it's gotten complacent, careless, and ready to start over if things get out of hand. It doesn't bail at the end for no reason; the admin knew that Deca-Dence was going to shit so it's sitting off to the side, waiting for an opportunity to either start over or just fade away to nothing. It was made clear that Deca-Dence is literally the only pastime, the only luxury, the only decadence that the cyborgs have; once it's dead, the system's grip is lost. The system knows that Deca-Dence is too far gone and has resigned itself to just seeing how things play out. The ending... is bizarre, I'll give you that, but it was written under the assumption that they wouldn't get anything else afterwards. As a solo project, it's passable; the questions I have left over would be nice to get answers for, but I don't need them. If it were up to me, a continuation of this world would be set between the final battle and the epilogue and would show how the world is rebuilt. That is where I would put focus on the old system; that would be the point where the cyborgs explain what the system did while also showing how the upheaval of that system is necessary. I defend the story because it resonates with me. Maybe it's the COVID isolation getting to my head, maybe I got hooked on the Episode 2 twist for throwing me off as much as it did, or maybe I sympathize with Kaburagi's desire to kill capitalism the moment it inconveniences the people I care about. I know this won't convince everyone; it's got tropes that not everyone wants and its worldbuilding can leave people wanting more. But for what I got out of it, I can make peace with it and just enjoy what I got. And the action scenes are fucking fantastic, good GOD the fights are great. I know you brought it up and praised it, but it does still feel like you tacked the compliment on partway through to make it seem like you weren't exclusively trashing it. The CG is pretty good too for the moments where it's used, which I'm surprised you didn't bring up since it's a sore spot for you.
It is really a bad thing if there's a whole setting behind it about humanity destroying their former shape to adapt to the consequences. What I mean is, what's the point of telling a story about change? if there isn't going to be a really well ground story and modus operandi of the people that will be affected by this change, or even a backlash of cyborgs refusing to adapt to the post Kaburagi intervention (like The Matrix series did with Bane and the segregation of people wanting to get out of the Matrix while others wanted to stay) It feels like there's too much involved just to tell the story of Natsume & Kaburagi
I've more or less fallen off anime for various reasons but just like any media I am still really interested in the stories that are told, and that's honestly why even after all these years I don't leave GR. I just want a respectful breakdown without having deep fried memes thrown at me or a bunch of yelling. Give it to me straight.
@@scythe76 Oh, I thought he was gonna talk about a non seasonal, Talentless Nana's plot is rly good but the characters... not so much, and I honestly don't see how it mashes two settings together?
This was one of my favorite animes of the year. It moved quickly, had some unique art styles, dope music, and it summed everything up in 12 episodes. I don't have time to watch 400 episodes of cartoons. Sometimes, I just wanna watch a cool story quickly. This did that for me.
I feel the same way.
honestly i really loved the episode 2 twist and is part of what made Deca-Dence stand out and even more fun than it already was, i'm surprised to hear peopel actually dropped it that early???
Damn
I actually dropped it around episode 8.
I think at least up to episode 6 or so was absolutely fantastic. Did start to drag after that, but still enjoyable enough
@@b.d.a.8719 i'd say the artstyles blended serprisingly well but were distinct enough to distinguish what was earth and what was the cyborg's living areas. the style in particular reminded me alot of Gainax/trigger's work and plenty of other projects have had drastically different artstyles collide with eachother
@@b.d.a.8719 Franxx was made in collaberation with A-1 pictures, i'm talkign about the work that imaishi was involved with more like Kill La Kill, Gurren Lagann, Space Patrol Luluco, BNA, Little Witch Academia, Panty & Stocking, etc.
also the drastically different artstyle for the cyborgs i thought felt faily obvious sicne they were from a completely different world and thus their physiology would be different from anything from earth
i have a few friends who are disabled who watched this show and said it spoke to them on a very personal level. they've been treated like "bugs" their entire lives, even facing those who would argue it would have been better if they'd never been allowed to be born at all, including their own families. they said they were especially happy to see when natsume's missing arm goes from being treated like a weakness she must overcome to becoming nullified or even an asset when given the proper tools she needs to succeed, which is more often than not the case for people struggling with disabilities who weren't born rich enough to access the help and tech that is often intentionally kept out of their hands, and that plays into the big reveal that the system actually secretly THRIVES on the existence of bugs and profits from them. that also rings true in the real world, too. a lot of industries would collapse if they couldn't hold people down to the impossible standards they themselves set for the rest of us. even the able bodied ones that seemingly fit in well (aka the cyborgs) are being held back from their full potential in ways they can't even imagine.
yeah it has its flaws, but i think it told the story it needed to tell better than most others i've seen trying to tackle the same issues. in the end, there IS a way for everyone to live together without suffering, but we have to change the entire system, first. that feels like an impossible goal, but if everyone works together and recognizes the humanity in everyone, then it can be done. maybe that's too much of a sunshine-and-rainbows ending for you, but i think a story about hope in the face of overwhelming odds is actually WAY edgier these days than the tragedies we tend to expect. especially this year, jfc.
Great post!
I love everything in this comment
The world building is a lot confusing in this anime but it's still a damn fun ride.
Same, I enjoyed it and that’s all there is to it
it just felt different and refreshing, and having only 12 episodes makes me excited and want more. theres so much they can expand upon
A second season could improve in that point
I'm seeing a lot of people say it was confusing. How was it confusing at all? Everything was explained.
I was confuse that people find it confusing
10:53 The disdain by which the reviewer says "conveniently" shows his lack of understanding of the show. The Gadoll are genetically engineered creatures who were designed, by Solid Quake, to generate those anti-gravity fields. Why? Because they were making a real-life video game! The whole draw of the fictional game Deca-Dence is that users get to experience three-dimensional real-time combat where dying means losing your 'character' forever. It was designed to be exciting and fun! Complaining that the anti-gravity field is 'convenient' is like going to a theme park and saying "Oh, they have roller coasters? HOW CONVENIENT!" and scoffing with disdain.
"Instead of gas powered maneuvering equipment these monsters conveniently create anti gravity fields around them that humans and gears utilize for aerial combat. None of these Titan similarities..."
He's not saying it doesn't make sense in the universe, he's saying that the anti-gravity field is convenient because it allows the combat to work the way it does in Attack on Titan.
@@samaustin8690 Fighting with grappling hooks and fighitng in zero gravity are completely different. Nobody looks at the Ender's Game's battle room fights and goes "Wow, just like Spider-Man!"
Furthermore, if anything Deca-Dence's zero gravity combat makes way more sense, given that the technology is extremely advanced and the Gadoll were genetically engineered to be fun enemies to fight, to make the system entertaining and to have players coming back for more.
Meanwhile vertical maneuver gear from AoT makes no sense, given that their society's technology level is mid-18th-century at best - they still use flintlock guns, while the percussion lock firearm was invented in 1805. Yet somehow they use gas to power their equipment when gas wasn't used as fuel until around the same time, and gas engines weren't around until the end of the 19th century - and those were huge. Miniaturized high-powered motors powerful to eject and winch back cables weren't possible with that level of technology. Hell, vertical maneuvering gear would be hard to make today, especially in a way that was usable and didn't snap the user's neck from the sudden changes in G-force.
@@ObsidianKnight90They attempt to explain it by saying it's actually a magical super-mineral that titans genereated hundreds of years ago (for some reason). The big problem with manoeuvre gear is that it would instantly shatter a user's spine. Either way, it's much less believable than what is shown in Deca-Dence.
I have a feeling the higher ups wanted an isekai and the writers had to hamfist that concept into the script.
What a legend.
but justin.....Y
I have a feeling this comment was written really quickly by famous comment guy to agree with the narrative of the youtuber that made this video. The show was great as is. It was really cool and well made.
seriously what are you? you are an enigma to me. do you get that a lot?
@@NerdOracle He's an enigma wrapped inside a cryptogram on a defunct bulletin board in the middle of the desert on the moon!
Very 'pointed' delivery on the "Studio............NUUUUUT"
Deca Dance is the definition of a 7/10 show. It's a fun ride, but nothing amazing. If some fans think it's a masterpiece, more power to them because everything is a masterpiece to someone.
deca-dence was awesome! natsume is a great disability rep. she isnt impaired by the loss of her arm but by bad prosthetics
until she gets a good one and then all of a sudden her disability does'nt existe anymore so what was the point of starting out with that if there just gonna write it out of the story anyway?
0:00 Potential -> Fell Flat ?
1:46 🚂 🛑?
3:11 Our Hero and Her Journey
4:25 _The Twist_
• It was not an easy turn to make
6:54 Why ????
7:22 The New Understanding of The World
9:07 Interpretation
10:39
(1) Survival Apocalypse
+ (2) Cyber World
(Sounds like Danganronpa)
15:48 Pop-Culture Reference
18:47 Funimation
Thanks Timestamp Terry peepoGlad
I need more clips of 15:48 :D
The polishing of this channel is now really nice. Awesome
I enjoyed this anime I never thought you’d make a video about it
I don't know anywhere else but over on r/anime it's one of the most anticipated weekly shows. It never really "fell off" at least within my circle and the communities I interact with.
I personally really liked Deca-Dence. Yes, the ending could have been a bit better as it definitely feels rushed and may have benefited from a full 24 episode count. I also thought a lot of the supporting characters were very forgettable. But it is easily the best original anime of the summer and grabbed my attention atleast until the final episode. It gets an 7/10 for me.
I think the ending makes sense.
The story was focusing on the humans and their issues not the cyborgs. Yeah, they didn't talk about the cyborgs' society but every step of the way the story reinforces that the humans are the focus point. I don't think it's fair to say this anime was done wrong because you didn't like what the point was.
I'm honestly not sure how this is confusing unless you're not paying attention or just plainly watching it while doing something else.
Yeah, I agree. The show had a tutorial film like Jurassic Park. It all made sense and was explained.
It made sense but it was just super condensed, I wish it was longer
Honestly I just enjoyed it a lot, i wasn't thinking too hard about all the tiny details and it was a fun ride. Also you questioned what the cyborgs "real" job is other than playing deca-dence, but didn't the show say something like when the cyborgs are "born" they are put into different sectors for the company? (like you said, they are property of the company). E.g. Jill was put on the developing team or something like that for deca-dence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here and am just clowning myself and imagining all of this lol
You are right, he glossed over important plot points to suit his half assed understanding of the show and called it "interpretive".
You're right. The show did explain all that. He just decided to nitpick that point for some reason.
I think you can still enjoy the anime without having to understand the worldbuilding which... yeah, they try, but vast swathes of robot society are left blank. But I think that's okay? The whole story is focused around Deca-dence and the pro gamer lifestyle, so focusing on that seems fine
Not to mention that the cyborgs need that juice like a battery for their bodies. They farm those stuff from the Gadolls that the company created in order to keep the system going. So its not just a game for them but an attempt to keep their society going
Honestly I think it's really good!
Throughout this video, at many of your points, my reaction was often 'so what?' or 'why does that matter?'. Like the jobs of the cyborgs or how their society functions... why does that matter for us to know? The story wasn't about that. It wasn't necessary for the story to make sense. What we needed to know was 'cyborgs see and use/treat real humans as NPCs in a game in a domed off part of the earth and the higher ups don't like bugs'. That was all that was necessary to understand the story they were trying to tell. And that they did show. There was no reason for us to know any of the other things. It'd have been interesting, but irrelevant.
Not every show has to have a complex narrative with a deeper meaning. This show certainly didn't have that, but I never got the idea that it was trying to get there.
Also, not sure why you're seeing it as an isekai?
I think it's a preference in story telling. Some enjoy very thorough and detailed world building, others prioritize character development while some want detailed designs and art. It not really about whether the story has deeper meaning (which I would argue every story has) but more if that caters to your tastes.
@@bookterror Very true. That even makes the criticism he had even weirder tbh
Obligatory comment since I had mixed feelings about this review so unfortunately it wont get a like or dislike. I agreed with a lot of your points, but I also feel that you over analyzed a type of series that was meant to be a fun ride with surface level conflict. Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think you mentioned Kaburagi's development. Kaburagi's growth was actually pretty amazing to see. Sure, he had the mentor label, but IMO he learned ALOT more from Natsume than she ever learned from him. Changing your whole way/outlook on life after so many years couldn't have been easy. I don't think this is the best anime of the year, but it is one of the better anime of the year. I also give it extra points for not being an adaption. Studios are too scared to take chances anymore, so something original was very welcome to see. You may suggest streaming it, but I will definitely being buying this series. Seems like something I would go back to irregularly just for the fun ride despite knowing everything that happens. Also, this is one I feel is a good 'Intro to anime' series for anyone looking to get into it. Not to deep, not to gory, just the right amount of fun, and not dauntingly long (although I do think the series would have been improved significantly with more episodes, but due to it being an original they probably didn't want to take that chance since supporting an original work is a risky endeavor as it is).
Damn, that was all really well stated. I loved the show. What other anime have you liked lately? I'm looking for something cool to watch.
@@rangoononline Recently the ones I have been paying attention to are Elaina the wandering witch, Talentless Nana, By the Grace of the Gods, and I forget the name, but that new anime by Key.
Thanks so much for the suggestions. Ima look those up. Appreciate ya.
that among us cameo.... SOO GOOD, had me dying. nice vid man
Deca Dance is such a fun word to say. They definitely did right with the title.
I do agree with your points, but I do feel that you dislike the wasted potential more than it really affects the quality of it. I never really felt confused about what's going on, because anything that wasn't really explained generally wasn't really part of what was going on, so I didn't feel it necessary. I do think it being only 12 episodes hurt it at least a little bit, because I'm not sure if all of the wasted potential could've been properly utilized in just 12, but only at a minor level. I think the show wasn't anything amazing, but it definitely felt to me like the amount of crap you gave it for its flaws was a bit more than it deserved.
I agree. It seems disappointment arises from people who wanted relevance in irrelevant aspects of this show... which isn't really the show's fault, it's the viewer's expectation's fault.
I agree. His complaints kinda remind me of George R. R. Martin criticizing Tolkien for not going into greater detail about Aragon's tax policies or what he'd do in times of flood or famine. Tolkien didn't write about that stuff because it didn't matter for the story he was telling, just as the elements that aren't explained in Deca-Dence weren't relevant for the story they wanted to tell.
I think your criticisms of Decadence validate its very purpose, being a metacommentary on the current deplorable state of society (or where it's headed). I found myself saying "Yeah that's the point" to most of what you had to say. For example, all of this being done for the purposes of... entertainment and money? Yes, exactly, that's how the megacorps work. I was hoping to see a deeper analysis of the symbols in this story. The things you dislike are the very elements that make this show great in my eyes. I can't imagine I'm the only one who sees it this way, right?
I thought arkadas point was actually that those themes all existed but weren't explored very well?
You very much aren't. The whole point of the cyborg society was that they were all cogs in a machine that didn't actually have any goals outside of maintaining itself, generating revenue, and then hoarding it. Their lives are completely meaningless and entirely revolve around a cycle of work and entertainment consumption. They represent the height of alienation under capitalism. Hell, Kaburagi felt his life was so devoid of any actual meaning he was literally just waiting until he "starved" to death until he finally met Natsume.
The things GR suggested, like exploring the ethics of the System owning the cyborgs or seeing their day-jobs were completely irrelevant to the show's message. Who cares what they do for a living, it is building up to nothing just like everything else in their world. Whether they are property of the system or "free" they are still beholdened to its rules and must either fall in line or be destroyed.
I wanted to say that I enjoyed decadence, but despite that, I agreed with all of the points mentioned in this video. There were things that when I watched didn't quite make sense, or things that I wished were further expanded upon, but I still really liked watching deca-dence.
I enjoyed it because of the characters. Well, I say characters, but really I only mean the two main characters: Kaburagi and Natsume. While not an incredibly unique dynamic, I loved watching these two affect one another and slowly grow in their own ways. I enjoyed watching these characters pulling each other up from their lows with the very thing that they learned from each other. I liked how despite Kaburagi being Natsume's mentor, we get to see more of how he has learned from Natsume.
That, and me relating to both characters somewhat in that Kaburagi was feeling purposeless and lost within the first few episodes, and Natsume having a seemingly unachievable dream. This later changed within the coming episodes though.
It's probably something I could've found in other shows as well, but it's the thing that stood out most to me about deca-dence.
im glad you made this video, i had dropped Deca after about 5 or 6 episodes after like seriously falling in love with the first episode and i couldnt really put into words why i stopped or had no motivation to finish it
Deca Dence didn't deserve dis
The points he made were solid, I still enjoyed it though. The main reason was probably because I value a good character over perfect worldbuilding.
Agreed. The show was dope. Some people just don't like concise storytelling.
Melon Lord The worldbuilding was a lot better than GR gave it credit for, imo. I feel like he was focusing on details that didn't matter for the overall point of the show.
@@JaimeNyx15 Well it was interesting world building at least. I'm not that sure if the profit thing was as pronounced as GR said it was. I don't really remember it that way. I watched it in German sub, though so it might just be a slightly different focus of the teanslater. Apart from that his points are valid. I just don't care as much. I mean people have different priorities when it comes to what makes a good story.
There was ONE plot point that ran counter to the “everything ends happy cuz that’s the way it should be” approach:
SPOILER AHEAD!
Cute mascot character Pipe gets dead & stays dead 😭
15:48
"Could something that looks like this commit murder?"
Looks can be deceiving
Sounds like something a murderer would say 🤔
This moment killed me, caught me off guard, teleported me in electrical and re routed all my tasks near the vent there...
@@GlassReflection Gotta say I wasn't expecting the Among Us joke. I had my money on Fall Guys.
@@DaxStrife1984 gotta love how many games/media, feature little bean people doing horrible things to each other recently. It’s pretty sus if you ask me.
I disagree with many of your points, and your general attitude against the show in general. I can't organize my thoughts into such a coherent essay as you do, but I do have one core point I want to drive home. THIS IS NOT AN ISEKAI. It's not even isekai-adjacent. Firstly (some) characters are free to "travel" between the "worlds", and secondly one of the two worlds is objectively more true, more correct, and more important. The dynamic of "this is risky for one person but no danger at all for the other" is key to this. And make no mistake, Natsume is definitely at risk. The "system" only cares about ensuring the continued existence of humanity as a whole, it does not care about individuals at all. I would think of this more of a "first contact with alien civilization" kind of story before I thought of it as an isekai story. It would indeed be interesting to see more of the cyborg society, to see some interesting free will based plot thread going on there, or to see in more detail how we moved from "present day" to this odd separation of cyborgs vs humans as it is shown. But the story didn't chase those threads because it didn't need to, they weren't relevant to the story of Natsume finding out the truth of the world & overthrowing that truth.
And, as far as the "system" not having any "teeth" and backing down the moment it confronts Kaburagi... I understood that scene to be, the system making an extremely practical and machine-like analysis of "it's basically futile to try, I don't understand why you are trying at all, giving up would be the logical choice, oh you're not giving up, well it doesn't actually hurt me if you attempt this, and in the remote chance that you actually succeed it would greatly benefit me, so go ahead". I'm sorry the show didn't explicitly spell it out for you.
Well said. Many in the community want anime to have each minute detail explained to them and if it isn't, it's deemed bad world building. Somethings are meant to be implicit and are intentionally left open to interpretation
@Nuthouse01 I agree with you
@@b.d.a.8719 Did you even read the stuff before the part you quoted? What's Natsume getting told the truth of the world got to do with the explanation of the scene of The System letting Kaburagi gain control of the Deca-dence? Learn how to use relevant quotes or don't go into a non-sequitur of what you quoted.
@@b.d.a.8719 See, I read the "it" part of what you quoted to be directly referring to the scene between The System and Kaburagi, which you skipped entirely to focus instead on the paragraphs that are far from and clearly separated from the quoted part. Thus the non-sequitur. Use a relevant quote next time if you're going to bother quoting at all.
Note that I'm not even touching on the rest of your comment regarding good story writing because I'm not going against what you're saying about that. My only concern is what I wrote above and in my previous comment regarding your use of that quote.
Just watched it this past week, I thought it was very notable stuff; an optimistic view on a nihilistic setting and genuinely moving
This is... So weird. I don't really feel like vehemently arguing against any of the points you're trying to make... But my experience has been SO DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. I HAD SO MUCH FUN WATCHING. It's really surprising that you'd hate the show this much.
GR seems to be the kinda person who gets hyper analytical about tight storytelling and stuff, between this and thinking Monster is perfect it makes sense(don’t get me wrong I really liked monster too, but arguably for different reasons). I can also see him not liking FLCL either, because well the writing at that simple surface level is awful, but clearly that’s not what it’s about. Same applies for Deca-Dence.
@@jackmoose1238 It's not that, OP just expressed that it's weird that they can't really disagree with anything being said and yet, they still had a lot of fun watching it. The point wasn't that they had different opinions in the end.
It was my case too. I can't disagree with anything said in the video, yet my experience was clearly very different.
I think in my case, it'll be a case of "It could have been a wonderful anime, but it ended up being just a missed opportunity that was still enjoyable".
This was probably my favorite anime of the year. I guess some people just don't like cool stuff.
This comment perfectly expresses how I feel after watching the video
@@Amaling Monster isn't as good as Deca-Dence. Monster is corny as hell.
"Profit, but for what purpose?" Ah Arkada, you forget, Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #41: Profit is its own reward.
Keep your lies consistent.
Then perhaps are the Cyborgs simply following Rule #55? "Take joy from profit, and profit from joy."
The Rules of Acquisition allow so many things to be understood 😂
I am proud to say that I am among those that watched Deca-Dence from beginning to end and I enjoyed it. So much so that to me it's already best anime of this year. That's right, I don't agree with you at all when it comes to this anime.
Yeah, it was my favorite anime of the year. I think some people just don't like cool stuff. No big deal. Someone has to like Monster.
Idk whats so confusing about the cyborg world. Also "train-wreck" is not a discriptor for this show in any sense of the word.
GR: Decadence combines so many disparate elements! Look at how they all interact. Isn't this such a clusterfuck?
Me: No??? I paid attention? And let fan theories pick up the gaps which weren't essential to the main story?
It's ok you didn't like it. By the end of the first three episodes I was promised a father-daughter adventure in a science-fiction setting, with themes revolving around corporatism. Your video doesn't really communicate what YOU went into the show expecting, only that you didn't get it.
@Microinsurgent Warzone Granted, but these weren't fan theories so much as basic inference. The "weren't Essential to the main story" was the important bit. The telling of the actual story was fine, it's the worldbuilding they offloaded to the viewer.
Ok, so really quickly:
You not understanding what the Cyborgs do is just you being really purposefully dense. The entire Sanitation Work aspect of breaking down the shit, which is then processed into oxyone, which is then stuffed up the cyborg's rears is an exact description of what the cyborgs do literally, and in regards to the other cyborgs figuratively. Every single one of the cyborgs is doing exactly that, and they get higher grade Oxyone depending on the supposed "merit" of their work, which seems to be measured in how much entertainment they can provide, how much Oxyone they can harvest, or how efficient they are at ridding the system of bugs. Not to mention the Gadall(sp?) engineers, the administrators of Deca-Dence, the security drones, receptionists, shop workers, etc. etc. etc. The entirety of Deca-dence is cyborg labour.
They changed the established setting of the Isekai and made it real life instead of digital to lend weight to the original setup, I.E. humanity fighting for survival. Humanity is still fighting for survival and to all the tankers, it is still reality. I thought this was a really interesting take on the isekai, because it achieves the same level of weight to the story as say, SAO, but can selectively choose which characters that weight applies to. It shows a startling amount of dissonance between classes, and that clear comparison of class structures is extremely relevant today.
Take for example Natsumi's confrontation with the Admin who kills Kabu. To HER, Kabu is dead. Even as he loads a new character, she has to deal with the grief of losing him in that moment. And it's the same with her knowing that it's a game while the rest of the tankers don't.
That's Sci-Fi at it's best. Exploring the emotional and practical ramifications of technology and society. Her sudden dysphoria over whether or not she wished she could forget all that she just learned was and is amazing.
As for why this system was set up in the first place, it was originally for profit. Then the system evolved to attempt to rid itself of bugs. In order to do this, it created a cycle that is self contained. They grow the monsters, the monsters contain the Oxyone, the gears fight the Oxyone for sport and entertainment and work, and the tankers provide set dressing.
The point is to view the world from a tanker and then cyborg perspective. You'll also note that many of the cyborgs have no clue why they're there in the first place and it's hinted there is a group even higher than the cyborgs. They know nothing more about the why's than we do. And guess what? The story works perfectly well with all of that in there. If your story doesn't interact with the characters who have answers to questions, then ITS OK TO NOT ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. Sometimes, answers are above your pay grade, and the pay grade of everyone you know.
So yeah, I think you're being really pretentious here without really taking the time to see that you're expecting sci-fi anime series to answer any and all questions that in no way add to the story. Would it actually benefit you to "know what the cyborgs do"? No, that is not necessary to any of the plot points. Hints of the underlying world are there throughout the series, like where avatars are stored, how much a tanker house costs, what they earn, what they eat, and everything else.
And for the love of God, stop being so utterly pretentious about it.
I'm glad you made a postmortem for this series.Thanks!
I fucking loved this anime and I looked forward to watching it every week almost as much as Re:Zero and that says a lot.
At first I wasn't that impressed with the twist but I ended up thinking it was incredible in the end.
This is a classic case of over analyzing things and taking the fun out of everything to try and sound smart.
"It didn't do what I wanted it to do and cover these deep and dark intellectual and political taking points so NYAAAAAA!"
You sound like Mother's Basement.
Honestly i think they did a really good job with the twist because it makes you mentally evaluate the life of the characters by tricking you into thinking it a video game you feel their lives are replaceable but then changing it shows how cruel that concept of "deleting a bug" can be.
Would you delete Pipe or Natsume?
To me the core concept of the anime was about "embracing your weakness as your strength".
They explore this through Kabu and Natsume, Natsume's arm and the limit break as well.
When you enable the limit breaker, you are embracing weakness to gain strength.
Natsume turned her weakness into a weapon.
When Kabu opened his heart to a "bug" and he gain the strength to change the world.
Not a fan of this take. This show was solid.
So many of the world-building nitpicks GR had were just... not... actual problems? They either explain a lot of this stuff in the show itself in a perfectly clear way, or they didn't need to in order to hold up the show's central conceit. I just don't give a crap about the day jobs of people that aren't Kaburagi. The cyborg world of Deca-Dence clearly establishes itself as pointless and hollow, perpetuating itself only to keep the system going rather than to do anything meaningful because it's a post-industrial capitalist dystopia. It exists for the sake of itself, and that's its greatest flaw that the characters need to correct. They're basically the space ship from Wall-E if it had turned around and, instead of trying to make the world better, just nihilistically strip-mined the remains of Earth for entertainment, the only currency people cared about anymore. I don't need to know the day jobs of the fat couple that Wall-E and Eve meet in the third act of the movie because it doesn't matter; their lives are literally pointless up to this point, and it's the same for every other cyborg in Deca-Dence. And the fact that the show was an Isekai taking place in a post-apocalyptic, Attack on Titan-esque Earth shone a light on just how bleak finding entertainment and escapism in the troubles of societies living on the edge of destruction truly is. I love that Deca-Dence makes humanity into the NPC role and otherizes the "player characters" by making them into cartoonish, brightly colored robots because it shows how the NPC role demeans and takes power away from people in that position, even though the last vestiges of humanity are really who should matter in this scenario. Yes, the stakes never ended up being that high for the human characters because none of the actual characters we cared about died in battle or as a result of bug-fixing, and that's a legit flaw in the show, but the fact that humanity could be wiped out from sheer corporate negligence was frighteningly relatable, and they carried that idea all the way to the end. But even though the stakes could have been higher, just as I didn't need to see the humans in Wall-E going through the power struggles and potential back-sliding involved with rebuilding civilization, I didn't need to see the same stuff here, so the tied-up ending didn't bother me either. Aside from that, I liked plenty of the characters, the fights were awesome, and the world was engaging. The show could've been deeper, but it was perfectly fine for a 12-episode series. It said what it wanted to say, I grokked it, and I moved on. Sounds like a success to me.
So calling it a "trainwreck" and saying that you only watched it "out of morbid curiosity" when it did everything it set out to do and had a lot of fun doing it is just a bad-faith criticism. Sorry you didn't enjoy it, GR, but I feel like you might have just nit-picked yourself into that frame of mind rather than giving the show a fair shot. This "post-mortem" came off as just unjustifiably snide, and I expected better. Though, if nothing else, I'm glad you're bringing the show the attention you only barely think it deserves.
Just finished the show today after binging it over the course of 3 days and came to this video to see other opinions on it. I was so confused when he started with calling it a trainwreck, and pretty much entirely agree with your take on it.
The show was concise and to the point, pretty much all of GR's complaints seem to stem from some strange desire to draw it out to explore irrelevant aspects of its world (I would love to see them explored in a sequel or spin-off of course, but they were not necessary for this story).
The stakes felt pretty high to me. We are explicitly shown that the humans are essentially props, with many dying just to "spice up the storyline" of the game. It was made explicitly clear that they were expendable and completely at the whims of a system that didn't care about them. Not only that, but any of them that figured out what was actually going on could be killed remotely and instantly. It felt very bleak, despite the show having a hopeful tone overall.
someone seemed to forget how Darling and the Franxx turned out, so ill take a Deca-Dence over that garbage fire any day of the week
Nah darling in the franxx still turned out far better than decadence
@@waitthisischinaohgodohfuck163 not really...darling in the franxx was shit in the ending arc...if we exclude that then probably but we can't do that...whereas deca dence went with constant pacing and no shitty arc...tbh the pacing in the anime felt like one of the best i've ever seen..summed up almost perfectly in 12 episodes
that's exactly what i was thinking.
Outside of the plot hole about Pipe disappearing despite bugs supposedly not disappearing after the characters got to the macguffin, I liked deca-dence cause I kinda need a happy ending to a series in 2020.
The switch killed all gadoll. It was shown as a chip inside each one. Pipe still has this chip, the bug about him is that he is not hostile, so there was no reason for him not to disappear. The reason the one gadoll existed was that one striving for live reproduced inside one of the gears, a natural bird had no chip to cause disintegration.
@@Supercomet13A Ah, I see.
As someone who actually really liked Deca-Dence the whole way through, I think the factor driving my enjoyment is this blissful hopelessness. As you said, there was no meaningful conflict or any actual danger. Nothing actually changed, if you think about it. *SPOILERS FROM HERE* The series shows Kaburagi and Natsume working so hard to overturn the system and in the end? Nothing actually changes, the system just adapts as a different game. Yeah, that could be seen and a sunshine and rainbows result, but behind it there's this existential knowledge that all of their efforts were pretty much in vain for the big picture. I don't know if that's what the writers were going for, but I really enjoyed this hidden nihilism of it all.
From Arcada's gripes i somehow got the impression that Deca-Dence is superbly Meta story. That the point of it all is more decadence of current anime stories. Viewer reactions and expectations (subversions and adherences to the clishe) are part of this decadence. Aditional meta layer if you will. Does this interpretation clash or mesh with your "hopless" interpretation?
YES PREACH
To me Deca-Dence was a lot about existentialism/absurdism, and how Natsume and some other characters cope with it. If you look at it through that lens, suddenly episode 5 6 and 7 are very thoughtful pieces on absurdism and how to deal with it
To me it felt like the show was conveying the idea of capitalist realism. The system is explicitly operating like a mega corporation, even in the ending we see that it is still using humanity as a prop for its entertainment media conglomerate, just under a different genre of game.
Capitalism subsumes all critiques into itself. Even when attempting to fight the system, you end up reinforcing it instead.
The twists at the beginning of the series imo is the best wtfs of the show, and that imho was great about the show, just hoped it would've kept giving us them while still making it make sense.
The ending could be surmised as “Then everyone lived Gucci, the end.”
I don't see a problem with an anime having a happy ending. Not every anime needs to have 600 episodes. Sometimes a quick story is enough.
There’s nothing wrong with having a happy ending. And, you can tell a complete story in 12ish episodes. But as he discussed, it just rings a bit hallow.
Thanks for the heads up on this show
That analysis was on point brotha
The biggest problem with this series was it tried to be too big for its britches AKA it overestimated the stupidity of the fanbase story truly does matter they tried to reach out to too much of an audience instead of focusing upon its actual audience & definitely didn't help that the material was gutted to the point from being mature status to PG status
Just finished the last episode of Deca-Dence, and then watched this video.
I don't really disagree with anything that was said....still enjoyed the heck out of Decadence though :D
I think the setting being too complicated or not being explained comes from the show not having enough episodes or not pacing itself well.
Imo, the show needed atleast 24 episodes, if not more. I could see the story beats happening right there, it's just that there wasn't any build up to it for those story beats to properly work.
A great example of this is the very beginning of the show. When it shows her fathers death(and a possible hint at the twist). Had there been more time, that entire scene could've been much better.
Same goes for the parts where she was just on cleaning duty. Had they had enough time, we could've spent atleast a whole episode just hanging out there & getting introduced to the characters.
The twist would've been really great had it happened in episode 3 or 4 instead as well.
And pretty much everything that comes after just felt really empty because of that.
It's like if you compress the entirety of, say, Eureka 7 or Gurren Lagann or Shinsekai Yori into just 12 episodes. It doesn't work. They would have to cut alot of the meat of it just to fit it in those 12 episodes without it feeling too rushed.
They should've cut the second half of the show, and only did the first half but in 12 episodes. And then just hope for a possible second season for the second half.
So TL;DR is that whole problem of the setting being too complicated wouldn't be a problem if they paced it better or had more episodes. Made in Abyss did this very well; with it's first 3 episodes being solely about it's society & the basic concepts of it's setting, which in alot of ways, can be just as complicated as Deca-Dence's setting.
But Made in Abyss(among others like Steins;Gate & even Vinland Saga) does it well because it paced itself better & made sure it took it's time with it. Something that Deca-Dence doesn't do.
True
Personally I thought the show was pretty strong, but pacing was definitely the weak link. The fact that Natsune was throwing up due to how difficult the Zero-G combat system was in one episode and one of humanity's strongest fighters the next was fine from a narrative standpoint but it was a real shame not to be able to see that progression
@@JackRackam
Yeah. There's a reason why Vinland Saga took 5 episodes before it's story actually started. And why Steins;Gate basically took 12 episodes before its plot really began.
I could see so easily just how good this show could've been each episode and each scene I see. But I just didn't feel anything about anything at all because there just wasn't any meat to it. I felt like I was reading a Wikipedia summary of a book, rather than reading the book itself.
I can still understand why people think it's a strong show though. The ideas were great and the story beats were there & they were perfect. Its just that it wasn't executed very well; as in, just not executed *at all*.
You guys have one of the better discussions on this comment section. Thank you. You summed up how I felt on various matters pretty well.
I think I got a different impression from the twist. I felt that this was a world that was built to protect the human world, but after their downfall, it took on a life of its own based on the rules that were programmed into it, perhaps somewhat like Tron. It definitely did get a bit to Matrixy in one episode, but I did still enjoy it. Although I did hope there would be more explanation on how these two worlds became as they were, perhaps confirming or denying my initial thoughts on it.
15:48 on a serious note you should chekc out some of the later seasons of Sgt. Frog that were never dubbed, they do a good job at makign cutesy mascots look badass
What is the background score used in the first few mins of the video?
Fair points. Episode 2 threw me for a loop, and I had to check I was still watching the same show three times. But, it was still a fun watch while it lasted.
Hi guys, can someone name the soundtrack at the beginning of the video? Those guitar strings are awesome.
Thanks for the review man. I know I'm not watching this anytime soon
I watched and loved it all the way through. I'll be looking to add it to my collection.
That's better, its good to see your face again, its a great part of your communication.
I don't understand how people were turned off by episode two
Same
i was at first, but i kept watching, and episode 3 sold me on the idea
I haven't seen the show but watching this review I can tell you why. Because it takes all of the stakes out of the series.
Expectation Subversion is a delicate art... and Deca-Dence chucked a brick through a window.
I think some people just don't like artistic vision. It makes them uncomfortable. There really wasn't a BIG TWIST or anything. It was a pretty normal sci-fi story.
You are wrong about character mortality. The actual humans - including Natsume and her friends - can actually die. For them, it is truly a post-apocalyptic survival story.
what is the background music?
Expectation Subversion is a delicate art... and Deca-Dence chucked a brick through a window.
It honestly sounds like you drove yourself crazy trying to over analyze everything and expected this show to take an "Attack on Titan" deep government conspiracy with its story. I rather enjoyed watching Natsume and Kaburagis story/development which you seem to hardly talk about.
I understood it this way: there are basically three groups in Deca-Dence. The humans - the npcs, the administrators/heroes who are also basically npcs and then the players who are distinct from the heroes even though the do the same thing. The series does not delve into what the players actually do outside of the game. But the characters the series does follow are not the usual players. That one I am quite certain of.
Honestly was pretty cucked by the show... It had so much potential and the human cast and design were on point. Like I serioulsy love the character designs of said singer slash character designer, she's got same feel as the Eureka Seven character designer, though really didn't jibe with Listeners. World building and concept wise... they had so many great ideas and just couldn't land it...
Well I personally didn't even notice most of the issues you mentioned. It was a fun and I'd even say underrated show, that had some of the best visuals of any show so far this year (yes GoH for example had fire animation but the other visual aspects were sometimes lacking). I'd say my biggest issue was the final episode, but up to that point it was a great watch.
That " Erased " joke hurts 😢
I can't help but think that the twist we all thought was so good months ago is ultimately what undid the show if it had just stuck with the premise it setup in episode 1 and not had any twist it probably would have been a better show that not only would have been entertaining but also had something so say that was worth hearing
Ok thank you for the Among Us comparison. I am disappointed I didn’t notice that myself.
Hey can you please review Gundam Build Divers as its getting a Battlelog soon.
The cute little bean deathfight above the shit pit was actually pretty hype.
This had a lot of potential. Themes of determinism were prevalent, but the anime never went deeper into such themes. It was all surface level that ended up being a rather generic action anime.
If Deca-Dence is a generic action anime to you, please share your watched list because I want more of what Deca-dence is providing.
This is on my watch list and plan to watch it later. Don't spoil anything but I think it would be interesting if Natsume ended up joining the cyborg society it would certainly be interesting since she's already lost an arm and ended up with cybernetic one.
Maybe the story isn't that fantastic but I can certainly see someone watching this anime and being inspired to use some elements better. For example, how about an anime where the main character is introduced like in this one but in the second episode it is revealed that they are an NPC in a virtual world that eventually escapes to the real world. Ya, something like that.
I always forget to subscribe after watching your videos, despite really liking them. Well, that's fixed.
Anyway, I'm a bit late to the party but I generally agree with your points. While I got a lot of enjoyment out of the series, it also frustrated me with how the writers seemed to have *started* designing an interesting premise and then just stopped at the surface level. That and dropping the ball on the final fight (releasing a limiter lets you *use* more energy, it doesn't *conjure it out of nothing* you trope-blinded idiots). Had the series been just one or two episodes longer pretty much every issue could have been fixed, but even with the current length I think they could have squeezed in a couple of sentences and images to add enough information that the premise made actual sense.
Did not have those problems with the show. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Still waiting for Golden Kamuy season 3 first impressions! It's an amazing show :D
For an anime original, it was a pretty good (Kabaneri flashbacks) & also spoiler free. Problem is it peaked too early. Ep 2 opened up a wide range of opportunities, but unfortunately plot followed the most restrictive & cliche route.
But overall was a fun experience, worth a watch.
Deca-dence was above average, which made it stand out like a beacon of light in the Summer 2020 season. Apart from Re:Zero, there was no anime to watch. It was an utter drought.
Really? You didn’t watch Oregairu final season? No guns life season 2?
@@ADTillion Oregairu final season was terribly bland and I hated it. No Guns Life I never tried, people who's opinions I trust told me not to waste my time on it.
@@Vge21x Sorry to hear ☹️
Yeah, that’s a drought alright. Personally I was too busy to watch anything besides those few anyway 😅
I just watched dubs of last season's shows like Villainess and Bookworm instead. That was a good use of time.
Still better than Darling in the Franxx.
And even though the "ending is Paramount" he gave it a pass because it was popular enough and he didn't wanted to upset people.
Smh
😂😂😂😂😂
Them's fightin' words! You, me, out back, fisticuffs, NAOW!!!
Not really. DITF had better highs than Decadence and had a much more focused cast of characters. Even with the huge screwups in the last quarter of DITF, it's not as bad as a rushed change of heart of the Cyborgs that just stop playing the game and say whatever just to end the story
I really enjoyed this show. Too bad it never got the attention it deserved. Glad you are talking about this show.
The hardships of Natsume were kinda realistic for this society they live.
most people won't want to adventure out and risk their lives, they will want to settle down and be happy with how their lives are going. Thats why her friend settled for what they had. And became uninspired by a life that much more than what they had.
I really wish that they did a bit more focus on the humans becasue Natsume deserves more.
Natsume got robbed her deserved spotlight. She carried those initial moments in the show.
Not that Kaburagi is a bad character, he's just not as enjoyable to watch as Natsume was.
@@GlassReflection Natsume had so much more potential.
I agree Natsume more enjoyable in my opinion (I agree also about Kaburagi) but if you think about it she hold the ideals we perceived the show was about before the twist. Which then makes her more relatable to the audience.
They could have taken the show many different directions while still telling the same tale, but changing the focuses and how lore is persented. This could have made for a more enjoyable show to those who didn't like the first 4 episodes.
After the middle of the series it did start to drag and I really had to force myself to finish it only because I really liked the characters. However I'd say you perfectly described the issues I felt the series had but didn't know how to put into words.
the cyborg design clashing with the human design is good design, you can't change my mind
No you're not.
It’s literally my fave anime of all time, so no lol
Loved it
'Jack of all,master of none' is a good way to describe how good this show is.
6:54 As much as I love fiction and post-apoc, this is my problem with most post-apoc - by the end of a narrative arc, we should find out at least a bit of the HOW and WHY things are the way they are now. The pieces should fit together, there should be internal logic. If you're going to flashback and plot-twist (like in Westworld) constantly then honestly I couldn't give a fuck. Nothing matters because everything can be overwritten in future episodes.
Deca Dence is a show that I simply remember as good for the wrong reasons, and okay for the right ones
Not really to counter what you said but why weren't you talking about these problems in Made in Abyss? Where was this side/version of you when you were reviewing MiA? Did everyone just selectively choose to not look at the flaws of MiA's universe?
Since episode 1, i get that they're just orphans and some are treated poorly, but sending kids to -work- die? How can/does a society like that work at all?
Are there no more safe jobs for kids to do? We even saw some lazy bums in the show yet even though the abyss is said to contain treasures, nobody decided it was better to give the hobos the chance to risk their life for the treasures instead of the kids?
And what's in the hole that she's in a hurry to go down there for? Can't she at least wait until she's a teen/adult? If she doesn't have a motivation to go down into the hole, doesn't that mean the show's main protagonist is just a plot device?(Sorry i'm not sure if i'm using this phrase properly)
(Some)Spoiler warning:
Now to the actual counter to some of your arguments: Nobody at the present time can foresee exactly how A.I. is going to change/evolve in the future. All we know is that the world in Deca-Dence is a dystopia therefore something *buggy* must've happened in the past and caused the world to end up the way it did since episode 1.
The System is, in my interpretation, just an A.I., and if something *bugged* with the A.I. in their past that caused it to learn that (profits/productivity = success) or something, like idk, maybe modern day capitalism?(i mean you're practically spelling it out when you mentioned how their people are just properties. Just look at how RUclips's "System" a.k.a. algorithm treats its own content creators. i thought you'd know this since you're one of them) Then it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that their world could be our reality one day.
The System may have backed down from Kaburagi because it conceded after considering that its own *bug-filled* history has led to ITS OWN EXISTENCE in the first place. In our world, our history includes some *bugs* a.k.a. mistakes(or basically, something unintentional) has led to the advancement of our technology. i can't remember other ones right now except "George Dantzig
". Go look him up on wikipedia or something.
i thought that the isekai thing is also not something that "falls apart", but rather another plot twist that it's not actually an isekai in the first place and nobody told you to assume it's an isekai as well.
Yes, i agree on some points you made but i just think there are some things you didn't even consider.
MIA Spoilers
Thing is Made in Abyss explained the things you mentioned. The orphans are treated poorly yes, but they are not send to die. They were given a certain depth in the first layer and were reminded not to go deeper then that. And within the depth they were supposed to go, there wasn´t anything dangerous. The Crimson Splitjaw being the exeption, not sure why it went up that far. Could be because of Regs backstory or it trying to expand it´s hunting grounds (like the insects from layer 5 that went into 4).
There could be better jobs for the children, work condition wise. But more profitable for the orphanage or the town as a whole? A town with citizens for whom the Abyss has an almost religious importance? Basically society just works normally, except for those whom no one cares about (the orphans). After all we haven´t seen one child being send into the abyss aside from the orphans. So not that much different from reality really, it´s basically like child labour in the real world.
With concern for the homeless guys, I think that would be just a waste of resources. Without training and equipment they would just die for nothing. Even worse if you just equipe them without training, basically just throwing your money into the hole. Just sending them off to the first layer costs more then the children in upkeep for the same gain, the more valuable stuff is further below but would just be suicide . And that is if they even want to go down there.
Even among the orphanage kids, who go down daily, only riko wanted to go into the deeper layers. And she´s basically an endearing nutcase (so a perfect white whistle candidate, you have to be crazy or out of options if you to want to go down that hole). Sure she has knowledge but without Reg (who is a walking, legendary, almost indestructible artifact wich can basically just burn things out of existence) she would´ve been dead on the bottom of layer 1 or the beginning of layer 2.
The last point is pretty self explanatory. The whole running away from the orphanage deal was kicked off by her being informed that her mother has died and shortly after that, being shown a letter among recovered items belonging to her mother that says that she will be waiting for her on the bottom of the abyss. The bottom of a place filled to the brim with stuff trying to kill you, with an additional
decompression sickness curse which also warps your depiction of time. As of now I have no clue if her mother is still alive, but I´m pretty sure she would kick the bucket long before riko would be even close to growing up.
@@OmegaMK-wl3wr Thank you. i guess there are some things i didn't consider about Made in Abyss. Also, i guess i confused one of the scenes in that show and thought she was still alive. i guess i now have an excuse to watch the movies, so thanks again!
@@jazy921 No problem. After all what I wrote is just how I see things. I personally like MIA, but can understand people who don´t like it. Also need to watch the movie (the non recap one). Already read the manga, but curious how it turned out as an animation.
An old writing adage is that if something is off about the story, one may be writing it from the wrong character's perspective. And while Kaburagi is cool, I think the story would have been told much better from Natsume's perspective. It would have given us a chance to see it as a mystery, to start piecing things together as it is revealed and maybe feel the world a bit more. Hell , I could see how Kaburagi constantly disappearing could even be seen as suspicious. That would be interesting.
I watched it.... it was pretty good imo... nice original story.
I’m waiting for Mother’s Basement to show up with his, “um, ACTUALLY” retort. Did his stance change on this show? He was praising it to high heaven at the start, but I haven’t followed him since his infamous “Basement Order” video, so I don’t know where he’s at right now.
He hasn't done a new video on it at the very least
What was his basement order tho?
@@Sara3346 it’s a whole ordeal. I can’t recall it exactly, but I don’t want you to sit through the whole video either. So it is: Diamond Is Unbreakable, Stardust Crusaders, Golden Wind, Phantom Blood, Battle Tendency, Battle in Egypt, Stone Ocean (manga).
It was pretty good.
Better than a lot of stuff.
I thought these ideas actually were good together.
May I be so bold as to give the term to what you describe as flashes of seasonal anime as Cherry Bomb anime or "Chybom" or whatever other combination you might come up with.
What's a cherry bomb?
Oooo is he gonna review Death Parade next??? Or has he already done that one?
I had no issues watching from start to finish. I just found it highly entertaining.
Hearing the synopsis feels like NUT was trying to make their own version of Youjo Senki/Saga of Tanya the Evil. More so with the second episode having a twist that re contextualizes the world and the protagonist's actions going forward.
You said that we never learn about the world because it doesn't matter to the plot... but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. The cyborg's world is essentially in the last dregs of late-stage capitalism and we're seeing it through the eyes of Kaburagi, someone that works for the system while also hoping for the sweet release of death. The rest of the world doesn't matter because it doesn't matter for Kaburagi, whose sole goal by episode 3 is making sure his surrogate daughter keeps living because he's got nothing better to do.
When Natsume expresses her fear that her actions won't have any impact on the future of the world later on, Kaburagi chooses to destroy the system in its entirety so that she can live in a better world. Since the system is doomed to collapse at the end, there's little point to deciphering what it was doing in the first place. Episodes 2 and 3 make it clear that the system is awful when we see that cheaters are executed by the admins; if Deca-Dence wasn't the only thing keeping society together, that wouldn't happen. The things we don't see aren't important because what we have is enough to establish that something is fucked up.
The system isn't a placeholder enemy with no fangs; it's been in absolute control for so long that it's gotten complacent, careless, and ready to start over if things get out of hand. It doesn't bail at the end for no reason; the admin knew that Deca-Dence was going to shit so it's sitting off to the side, waiting for an opportunity to either start over or just fade away to nothing. It was made clear that Deca-Dence is literally the only pastime, the only luxury, the only decadence that the cyborgs have; once it's dead, the system's grip is lost. The system knows that Deca-Dence is too far gone and has resigned itself to just seeing how things play out.
The ending... is bizarre, I'll give you that, but it was written under the assumption that they wouldn't get anything else afterwards. As a solo project, it's passable; the questions I have left over would be nice to get answers for, but I don't need them. If it were up to me, a continuation of this world would be set between the final battle and the epilogue and would show how the world is rebuilt. That is where I would put focus on the old system; that would be the point where the cyborgs explain what the system did while also showing how the upheaval of that system is necessary.
I defend the story because it resonates with me. Maybe it's the COVID isolation getting to my head, maybe I got hooked on the Episode 2 twist for throwing me off as much as it did, or maybe I sympathize with Kaburagi's desire to kill capitalism the moment it inconveniences the people I care about. I know this won't convince everyone; it's got tropes that not everyone wants and its worldbuilding can leave people wanting more. But for what I got out of it, I can make peace with it and just enjoy what I got.
And the action scenes are fucking fantastic, good GOD the fights are great. I know you brought it up and praised it, but it does still feel like you tacked the compliment on partway through to make it seem like you weren't exclusively trashing it. The CG is pretty good too for the moments where it's used, which I'm surprised you didn't bring up since it's a sore spot for you.
It is really a bad thing if there's a whole setting behind it about humanity destroying their former shape to adapt to the consequences. What I mean is, what's the point of telling a story about change? if there isn't going to be a really well ground story and modus operandi of the people that will be affected by this change, or even a backlash of cyborgs refusing to adapt to the post Kaburagi intervention (like The Matrix series did with Bane and the segregation of people wanting to get out of the Matrix while others wanted to stay)
It feels like there's too much involved just to tell the story of Natsume & Kaburagi
It's a fun ride, don't think about it too much.
I've more or less fallen off anime for various reasons but just like any media I am still really interested in the stories that are told, and that's honestly why even after all these years I don't leave GR. I just want a respectful breakdown without having deep fried memes thrown at me or a bunch of yelling. Give it to me straight.
Hella excited for that Halloween special
If he is talking about what I'm thinking of, it's gonna be good
@@scythe76 What are u thinking of? I rly wanna know what it's gonna be
It sound like it might be Talentless Nana, one of my favorites this season
@@scythe76 Oh, I thought he was gonna talk about a non seasonal, Talentless Nana's plot is rly good but the characters... not so much, and I honestly don't see how it mashes two settings together?
I was thinking like murder mystery/high school? Idk but I love it so far and hope he talks about it nonetheless